I woke up and could not go back to sleep at about 2 AM, so I’m watching “Mission Impossible” reruns on Paramount. I have vague memories of watching the show with my grandfather as a child.
One episode featuring the fabulous George Takei had our agents infiltrating a foreign spy operation that trained operatives to pose as U.S. citizens.
This dialog snippet wasn’t true of large swathes of Americans in the 60s and 70s, probably including Takei, who grew up in an internment camp. It isn’t true now either.
The people’s relationship with the authorities is likely to deteriorate in the coming years. I’m not an attorney, but this advice on YouTube from the National Lawyers Guild seems sound.
***
Anyhoo, in addition to my delight in discovering a trove of MI episodes in the wee hours, I was pleased to see a post from Soonergrunt here and an indication he’ll be around more.
Yay! I hope this means some Freddie content is forthcoming. (ETA: Sooner’s adorable dog Freddie, I mean…)
***
And finally, even as a news avoider, I’m seeing headlines indicating some prominent Dems are processing the anger phase by shitting on each other. I think that’s a pity.
I’m not telling y’all what to do — that’s not my job. But I will say I am gonna try very hard not to take any bait or engage in pointless recriminations.
I’ll save my venom for the civic vandals who put us here with their votes.
Open thread.
raven
Hey now, I hope you’re feeling OK!
Baud
You funny.
TBone
I skipped right over the blame & recrimination phase directly to rage planning how to best oppose fascism in my own way – though it may be small, it shall be mighty. I save my blame for the RWNJs I can’t avoid, and then THEY avoid ME!
TBone
Who is Freddie? I’m still a newbie, obvs…
Quinerly
What borders on stupidity?
Canada and Mexico
MagdaInBlack
I had a fun and positive interaction Thursday morning. I stop every morning at the neighborhood convenience store for breakfast ( peach-nectarine redbull and a bear claw, don’t judge.) I usually chat with a guy who is coming off 3rd shift, and that day he said something about the election. I said “before we go any further, how did you vote?” He as aghast ” I would NEVER vote for trump, I’m union. I said thank god, shook his hand and “nice to meet ya” We then stood in the parking lot waiving our arms and bitching about trump for at least 10 minutes. It was very satisfying.
TBone
@raven: hope you’re feeling okay as well as B.C. feeling okay and getting her homecoming in shorter order than anticipated.
Chet Murthy
@TBone: I’m guessing Freddie
deBonerde Boer. Notorious bugaboo both (IIRC) here and at LG&M. He was …. a bit messed-up, had a bit of a mental break, swore off the Internet, and after a hiatus, came back and has been writing right-winger articles here-and-there.TBone
Paul’s hair looks like Art’s mustache 🎶😆
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-YQA_bsOU
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I meant Freddie the dog, not the erstwhile front pager!
Quinerly
Not that familiar with this site. Feel free to scroll on by. I, for one, want to know why we lost, if anything could have been done, and why so many people couldn’t be bothered to vote.
https://blueprint2024.com/polling/why-trump-reasons-11-8/
TBone
@Chet Murthy: glad I missed it then, thank you!
TBone
@Betty Cracker: thank you!
Chet Murthy
@Betty Cracker: oh, ha! Nice! This site is so great, the way that pets are centered so often!
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: 💙😎
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
LOL.
New Deal democrat
Blueprint 2024 ran an analysis of why voters said they voted as they did. Their headline: “
Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand”
Broken down further, they were
The top reasons voters gave for not supporting Harris were that inflation was too high (+24), too many immigrants crossed the border (+23), and that Harris was too focused on cultural issues rather than helping the middle class (+17).
Other high-testing reasons were that the debt rose too much under the Biden-Harris Administration (+13), and that Harris would be too similar to Joe Biden (+12).
These concerns were similar across all demographic groups, including among Black and Latino voters, who both selected inflation as their top problem with Harris. For swing voters who eventually chose Trump, cultural issues ranked slightly higher than inflation (+28 and +23, respectively).
The lowest-ranked concerns were that Harris wasn’t similar enough to Biden (-24), was too conservative (-23), and was too pro-Israel (-22).
https://blueprint2024.com/polling/why-trump-reasons-11-8/
(Link includes a handy chart)
E.TA.: I think Harris ran an excellent campaign. One of my few criticisms is that she needed to put daylight between herself and Biden on the inflation issue, and in ways (hint: *publicity stunts*) that broke through.
japa21
@Quinerly:
My thoughts: https://balloon-juice.com/2024/11/08/not-everyones-going-to-pull-out-their-gun-and-shoot-themselves-in-the-foot/#comment-9424312
Quinerly
@New Deal democrat:
Great minds must read the same thing in the wee hrs of the AM. 😁You also probably saw the piece about Biden’s internals being he would lose to Trump with Trump getting 400 EC votes.
Josie
@New Deal democrat:
So basically, incorrect beliefs caused by misinformation and poor news coverage.
Betty Cracker
@Quinerly: Figuring that out will be essential, and I didn’t mean to imply those conversations aren’t welcome here; they’re certainly necessary for the party. I think it can be done without shitting on other Democrats.
For example, if the early data on Hispanic voters swinging right proves out, it’s a legitimate point to discuss, IMO, but it can be done without broad generalizations like “Hispanics are right-wing troglodytes.” (I know YOU know that, just saying.)
Another thought: maybe discussions about theories that would require a time machine to test aren’t productive. I have my thoughts on that, but for the present, at least, I’m gonna try to keep them to myself. People are hurting.
Again, these are my thoughts as a commenter, not as a person with access to the back room. Y’all are free to say whatever you want within the parameters John established.
p.a.
@New Deal democrat: You should provide a link to your post at bonddad.
Not a self-promoter? Here ya go:
http://bonddad.blogspot.com/2024/11/how-fed-helped-doom-democrats.html
ETA: once again I can only copy/paste in “text” tab, not “visual”.
Quinerly
@japa21:
Excellent analysis. Thank you for directing me back to it. I had read part of that thread but never got down to your comment.
JMG
IMO Pelosi’s beef is not valid. I think it’s very likely that if Biden had dropped out in January, Harris srill would have won the nomination. She’d run as sitting VP, Biden almost surely would have endorsed her, and the voters in Democratic primaries had no real reason to repudiate the administration. This wasn’t 1968, the party was about as unified as it ever gets. But then of course Harris would’ve run into the same problems in the general election. Maybe a longer campaign would have helped her establish herself as a more independent figure. But I’d bet probably not.
Baud
@New Deal democrat:
A bunch of reddit commenters aren’t going to accept the last two things.
Baud
@JMG:
Agree. Alternate histories are hard, and almost always wrong.
We lost because Biden mostly did what we wanted, and it didn’t improve things fast enough.
Ignoring what Trump is remains inexcusable, however.
TBone
George Conway, over at Digby’s place (refers to Bill Kristol statement):
https://digbysblog.net/2024/11/08/the-never-trumpers-make-a-good-point/
Suzanne
@Quinerly: I am seeing it noted on Xhitter that 64% of Native Americans voted for TFG, and Native American-majority counties swung to the right by 10 points, according to the NYT.
I don’t think this is primarily due to misinformation. I am leaning, right now, to thinking that the simplest explanation is the most accurate one: prices are high and people just fucken hate it.
zhena gogolia
This (serious) commentary by JL Cauvin is well worth listening to.
Chet Murthy
@Suzanne: my God. The self-harm. The self-harm. Suzanne, thank you for telling me this, even though I’m horrified. Just … just …. just ….. the self-harm.
New Deal democrat
@p.a.: Thanks.
I have a second piece, primarily focused on wages, drafted. It should be posted next Monday or Tuesday.
P.S. I appreciate your compliment, because since Tuesday I’ve considered pulling the plug on everything, including my economic writing.
narya
Today’s Heather Cox Richardson says what I’ve seen and heard in multiple disconnected places: the lack of a left-leaning (or factual!) news presence PLUS the RW pink slime media (plus enshittification of schools) means people were bombarded with that pink slime with no counter narrative. In swing states, where more of Harris could be found, she did better than in non swing states. How do we build those media?
WereBear
I’ll save my venom for the civic vandals who put us here with their votes.
That is where it belongs. NO ONE saw this coming.
Except all those Zombie movies. Honestagawd… it was a freakin’ WARNING.
Betty
@New Deal democrat: I put a long post on the previous thread describing an article by The New Republic detailing the extent of rightwing media’s control over the information consumed by the millions who voted for Trump based on propaganda. The MSM is no longer leading the news industry and is failing to counter that propaganda.
Josie
@Suzanne:
The misinformation is the idea that TFG will be able to fix the problem.
New Deal democrat
@Quinerly: Thanks.
I got it via Ernie Tedeshi (economist). I find that economic (*NOT* Wall Street financial) writers tend to be much more clear eyed at times like this than political pundits.
And I didn’t see that second piece, so if you can find the link, please drop it here (btw, I strongly suspect they are right).
WereBear
@Quinerly: Okay, you got a smile out of me.
Where are they going to get their comedians, now? Huh? Even conservatives can’t laugh at them. Why they switch to hate, in part.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@New Deal democrat: i am sure these people are going to let a pollster know they didn’t vote for Harris because she blackity blackity black and had a vagina instead of Arnold Palmers tool.
Baud
@Mai Naem mobile ¹:
I wonder if those were options one could choose in the poll.
Suzanne
@Josie: Sure, I get that.
But, like….. at some point, people are just dumb and make bad choices. Even when presented with good information and good tools. I keep seeing comments about “better civics education would have fixed this!”, but, like…. I learned what a tariff was in middle school, and I went to shitty, underfunded public schools in a conservative area. Everyone has Wikipedia on their phone.
People are emotional and irrational and they find ways to justify bad decisions to themselves.
Betty Cracker
@raven: I’m OK! Hope you are too.
New Deal democrat
@Betty:
Credit where credit is due: Trump is an absolute master at publicity stunts (via his time with the WWE). Think most recently of the McDonalds and garbage truck stunts.
Democrats need to learn the art of publicity stunts to grab ahold of their preferred narrative. For example, in my alternate universe Harris thanks Jimmy Carter by spending a day in overalls with a tool belt around her waist with Habitat for Humanity rebuilding a damaged house in western NC, and says: “In my Administration, we’re going to bring down the cost of housing!”
geg6
@TBone:
I’ve been reading and listening to a lot of Never Trumpers, along with the usual Dem and liberal people. And to my surprise, I find myself agreeing the most with the Never Trumpers (with the exception of Josh Marshall, who has been absolutely excellent). We have a moral crisis in this country that we need to find ways to address. And one way to start to address it is to try to figure out how to disseminate accurate information in a way that people pay attention. I’m not sure how to do that but we better figure it out. Dems don’t communicate well for the general public and we need to know why and how to fix it.
Suzanne
@p.a.: This is interesting, thank you.
WereBear
My take (and I haven’t read the article yet) is that they were afraid.
A friend in a small town was worried about the people at the polling station knowing how she voted. They know the poll officials are Trumpers and they peek. If they didn’t let them peek, they would know, anyway, right?
Their family are not of the same mindset, as would be 99% of the town… so I had my answer.
Small town people haven’t left, so they have to work and date and live and find something right there.
They can’t leave, see? Not without giving up their family. Maybe, if married, both sides of it. Family business far more common, only one fuel oil delivery place in miles&miles… plus their job.
This friend was never worried before. They were outspoken. That small town blackmail operation feels confident and mean, now.
And I’m afraid it got a lot of people in the same kind of trap.
Professor Bigfoot
@geg6: The thing about that is, why do Black people and Jews hear Democratic messaging just fine?
Why is it that white people can’t hear the message when everyone else can?
Chet Murthy
It’s 430am, and I’m still not sleepy. I got up at a respectable time yesterday (9am). No idea why I can’t sleep (didn’t drink any booze). The only thing I can think of is I had some Thai iced tea with lunch. I don’t drink caffeine anymore (not at all), so maybe I’m just really sensitive to it now. I wonder if that’s why. Sigh.
WereBear
@New Deal democrat: I noticed the two TOP reasons were wrong, but we are talking people who don’t know things but think they do.
TBone
@geg6: 💙 no matter where it comes from, a good perspective is good.
🎶🤘🤬
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee_uujKuJMI
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
Dem messaging is never about arbitrarily hurting some hated group of people. Not sure how we fix that.
And, no, unfortunately most people don’t hate corporations or rich people, at least not enough to influence their votes.
Chet Murthy
@Professor Bigfoot: The people who can’t hear that messaging were white people, and wannabee-white people. Everybody who knows they aren’t white, heard the Dem messaging just fine, or at least, heard it somewhat.
And there I go, being wrong, b/c per @Suzanne: 64% of Native Americans went for Trump. Which ….. chilling.
TBone
@WereBear: I believe that may be very true.
eclare
Trying to be ok. William is in my lap, sweet kitty. I am grateful for those who got him here.
geg6
@Professor Bigfoot:
Yes, that is the problem. It’s white and Hispanic and, shockingly, Native Americans who aren’t hearing what we say, only what is being said about us. We need to understand why.
JMG
Do the Trump voters actually think he can make prices go down> He can’t, unless he causes a major depression. What will they think when prices keep increasing? Will they be angry? Or will they just get used to the new, lower inflation rate as part of life? My guess is that it’s the latter. People always double down on their bad choices.
Chet Murthy
@geg6: The idea that Native Americans bought his shit …. is breaking me. Really breaking me.
Suzanne
@Baud: There was a TikTok video flying around yesterday that made me want to throw up.
Speaker says (something like):
“You think it’s bad that he went bankrupt? All businessmen go bankrupt!
You think it’s bad that he got money from his dad? That sounds COOL!
You think he treats women bad? We all treat women kind of bad!”
Misinfo is a second-order problem. The fact that TFG is an aspirational figure to many is indicative of a first-order problem, which is bad morality and selfishness.
TBone
@Professor Bigfoot: I’ll let Don Ho answer that 🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mlCiDEXuxxA
AM in NC
@Quinerly: It’s a clinic on why letting rightwing billionaires create and dominate our media landscape for DECADES without response is killing us. The lie machine works, and we have no answer to it so far.
Chet Murthy
@JMG: “Do you know why we have a depression, why YOU can’t find a job? It’s those dirty immigrants — they’re the ones taking your jobs! Re-elect me, and I’ll finish the job! Show them who’s boss, send them back where they came from!”
Sadopopulism. Sadopopulism.
Anne Laurie
@Chet Murthy: Au contraire! (praise Murphy). Freddie is Soonergrunt’s rescue pup, and a very good doggie indeed.
WereBear
@Josie:
And I would add “just flat out stupid people” because it’s never been easier to find things out, and then vet them.
I did learn great ways to do this in academics. Partner’s aunt and uncle didn’t know what footnotes were.
So people who skipped most of their high school classes wind up working last shift at the Sack o’ Suds because you can get high on the job, and were angry about the sky high cost of snack cakes.
Their lives suck, and it’s all the lib’s fault.
My only consolation is every country had people who lost their minds and might never get them back. At least in the pellagra epidemics (also in the South, mind you) they built asylums.
But there are literally too many of them, and they won’t “take the cure.”
The Thin Black Duke
@Professor Bigfoot: White America is addicted to White Privilege and white people would rather OD from it than admit it’s an addiction.
TBone
@TBone: especially when you remember the bomb threats and other malarkey that were deployed.
Bomb threats occurred here in PA, pretty close to home. Many mail ballots also went undelivered (!)
Baud
@Suzanne:
People can choose a moral worldview that we label bad. All we can do is promote our own moral stance and invite people to join us. I’m not sure we do a good job at that.
And by we, I don’t mean a political party. I mean people.
p.a.
No. Just no.
On the pukefunnel becoming the main news source: reality>fantasy every time, but in how much time and how bad does reality have to become to break through?
I don’t know how much this pertains in the present, but in Europe in the not-to-distant-past the Socialist Parties took very seriously as part of their job educating their members (and anyone else who would take a look), thereby providing a counter argument to prevailing- uuugh, here we go- cultural hegemony.
Nothing like it here. IMHO the Dems have not. Dems consider themselves a political party. European (Democratic) Socialists consider(ed?) themselves a movement that included a political party. It’s waaaay more complicated than this, Am exceptionalism (not a positive in some phases) yadda yadda.
Chet Murthy
@Baud: I grew up in a right-wing environment, with basically a Republican worldview. But because I took college moral philosophy, I was able to -think thru- my moral choices, instead of just going with what I inherited from my environment (Republican). So when my mom told me that we were Democrats b/c of what RaYgUn did to Medicare and how it hurt poor patients, I was able to use that information to conclude that I must vote Dem. Even though I was otherwise kinda right-wing for many years.
Suzanne
@WereBear: Agree. Incorrect beliefs aren’t caused by misinformation. That implies a rational weighing of facts that most people don’t do. Incorrect beliefs are caused by desire. When you want something to be true and only the “information” that aligns with what you want can penetrate.
This is why people can hear a mundane truth 500 times from legitimate sources and yet fall for a conspiracy theory they read in a Reddit thread.
Suzanne
@Baud:
Agreed.
New Deal democrat
@WereBear:
Well, here is a graph of the official measure of inflation:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIAUCSL
It hit 9% in June 2022, the highest Year over year increase in 40 years. A *huge* proportion of that was (and is) the cost of housing.
As I pointed out yesterday, the alternative to 9% inflation and 3% unemployment wasn’t 2% inflation and 3% unemployment, it would have been more like *20%* unemployment and 2% inflation – and the election would have been an absolute bloodbath.
On immigration, the CBO estimatted that there were something like 5-6 million new immigrants in 2022-23. That is also a huge number. It came up in economic writing because it explains why the unemployment rate has risen (new immigrants being unable to find their first job) with the economy still being strong.
TBone
I wish a motherfucker would dare say this to me.
Because that motherfucker gonna need full dentures afterwards. And possibly facial reconstructive surgery.
Betty
I think we have lost more than a battle. At this point we have lost the ability to communicate accurate, truthful information to at least half the country. Sherrod Brown, Jon Tester and Bob Casey are white men who worked hard to serve their constituents for years. Their losses to parachuted in multimillionaires with questionable backgrounds should be discussed as much as what Biden and Harris did wrong.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@geg6: misogyny is why
AM in NC
@The Thin Black Duke: We have a winner! See also: privilege, male and refusal to give up patriarchy.
p.a.
@Baud: Who was it said all Americans consider themselves potential millionaires and vote accordingly?
Chet Murthy
@p.a.: maybe John Steinbeck?
ETA:He’s apparently the one who said the one about Americans being temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Denali5
I think there is something to the intimidation factor. TCFTIFG announced that he would not accept a loss, which meant there would be unrest and quite possibly violence. This fear caused submission. And of course many men would not vote for a woman. I am deeply disappointed that women did not vote in large numbers because of the abortion decision. Women are dying when a pregnancy goes wrong. There are many single women out there who did not have to consult or tell their husband or partner how they voted. Where were they?
rk
It’s not just that prices are too high. Every thing is unaffordable. Healthcare, even with insurance is expensive. If you have Obamacare and are not eligible for the subsidies then you pay very high monthly premiums and deductibles. The cost of a college education is ridiculous. I can’t even talk about housing.
On top of that people see that we give billions in aid to Ukraine and Israel. And yes there is a genocide in Palestine. I’ve had to try with no success to answer to my kids why Joe Biden is blindly supporting Israel.
Other advanced countries have free education and healthcare at least. What do we do for our children? We can’t even ensure they’re not shot in schools. They do drills against mass shootings and it’s an accepted part of life.
No ordinary person cares if they’re told that inflation is going down, if life in general for them is unaffordable.
On top of this have a media which misinforms, and a population which is pretty much ignorant, you get Trump.
There was nothing that Harris did which was wrong. But misogyny and racism cannot be the entire explanation. I’m pretty sure that Nicky Hailey would also have won.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
Agreed. Biden did what needed to be done. Things cannot be improved fast enough to satisfy a nation of spoiled children. The same people were angry that Obama didn’t completely recover from the financial collapse in time for the 2010 midterms.
And of course the spoiled children’s solution to the “not fast enough” problem is to be that asshole and his cohort of right wing maniacs back in power. Makes perfect sense.
artem1s
included with ‘dont’ help the Nazi’s’ and ‘shut the fuck up’ they should include ‘don’t fucking break the law’. I noticed the two in the video thought it was funny to make jokes about bombs and breaking glass. BREAKING THE LAW IS NOT FUNNY. JOKING ABOUT BREAKING THE LAW IS NOT SHUTTING THE FUCK UP.
the Gaza astroturfer nepobabies were vandalizing buildings last week on campus and tagging them with antiSemitic graffiti. I don’t care how righteous your cause is DON’T FUCKING HELP THE NAZI’s. When you’re disrupting and attacking your fellow students and vandalizing buildings you are making it harder for them to finish their education you aren’t helping anyone’s cause. YOU ARE MAKING IS EASIER FOR FASCISTS TO ROUND YOU UP. You are the problem at that point. for yourself, your community, your family and friends.
Chet Murthy
@rk: All … ALL the economic things on your list are the way they are for two reasons:
(1) rent-capture, e.g. healthcare costs a lot b/c so many actors have captured revenue streams
(2) the rich pay such low taxes compared to other Westen countries
And these jamokes (Trump voters) chose to ….. go with the guy who wants to do more of both!
Quinerly
@Suzanne: I drive the pueblos here when I just want to drive and think…..and talk to strangers. Plus, gas is a lot cheaper at San Felipe and Santo Domingo, often times a lot cheaper than Costco and I don’t have to fuck with lines at the Albuquerque Costcos. No Costco in Santa Fe.
With that said, LOTS of Kennedy signs on pueblo lands, not necessarily at houses…just on pueblo lands. He was still on the ballot out here. Was baffling to me given his views on vaccinations and Covid….and how Covid swept through Santo Domingo (and for what it is worth, I was on the Navajo Rez at Canyon de Chelly in March 2020 and saw it starting there in real time. My Navajo friend and guide died in April. Everyone was sick around me at the beginning of March).
Didn’t see many Trump signs on my driving and thinking days. But, I also didn’t see many Harris signs. I will say this and I am new here so take it for what it is worth. People with Hispanic surnames (and you know, at least here in NM, lot of NAs have Spanish surnames, were very vocal on social media here in SF about wanting a “change” because of inflation. Almost bullying. Locals whose bloodlines go back to the Spanish are very angry over the price of housing and food in Santa Fe. And angry at the “rich and liberal Californians” who have moved here…especially post Covid.
We really need to hear from dexwood. He has been out here in Albuquerque since the 1970’s. His wife is NA. I forget which pueblo.
I follow and have met Ricardo Cate. He is a cartoonist from Santo Domingo Pueblo (Kewa) . He is very anti Trump. His cartoons are fabulous, and he is also doing stand up. His cartoons are under the name “No Reservations.” I just adore him. https://kewacate.com/index.html
WhatsMyNym
My very white state, Washington, managed to vote for Harris (58 – 39). We also voted for 6 women as Rep’s and returned our incumbent jr Senator (another woman).
Chet Murthy
@Quinerly: If that’s what they really wanted, all they had to do was pass a steeply-progressive income tax, and ditto vacant housing tax. And bonus! that would have actually -worked-!
narya
@The Thin Black Duke: This. This depresses me and pisses me off so very much. And these same white-privilege junkies are always nattering on about morality. Just taking the Golden Rule seriously would go a long way, but noooooo; that would involve considering the humanity and moral worth of people they regard as inferior (or not even fully “people”).
Quinerly
@New Deal democrat:
In response to your question.
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/pod-save-america-host-says-bidens-internal-polling-showed-trump-winning-400-electoral-votes/
MSNBC is also very informative on a lot of this this AM.
WereBear
@TBone: I found George Conway the best of the never Trumpers.
Trumpies all have older relatives. They knew Trump was losing it. Of course they know!
See? This thing right here is the problem.
Democrats will poll, find out these voters claim they didn’t know Trump was demented (in all ways) and so the Democrats think the solution is to do a public service campaign about seeing the signs of dementia (which we don’t run anymore because sadly everyone deals with it one way or another) and then they will behave in ways a rational adult is expected to, and will, because they are not a psychopath, nor are they incapable of learning about important things.
If these folks were capable, they would have not waited until all their jobs were shipped overseas to get upset. But now they DO blame the Dems, don’t they?
Because the Dems are the ones who tried to tell them?
THIS is the football. Wingers lie. Reflexively. Stop listening to what they say.
Watch what they do.
And come up with something to counter that, because apparently we’ve got a hidden population running on “criminal minds.”
They believe what they want to believe. I guess it works for them because (chicken/egg?) they prefer being told what to do, always, even if they also hate it.
I got an A on my college paper describing the myriad uses of Denial in Goodfellas. See? Footnotes.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Maybe it’s HOW you communicate the ideas as much as the ideas themselves. Trump is a dick, but he presents as unscripted, and people respond to that. There are Dems who pull that off, e.g., Fetterman. Big Jawn is sui generis, so I’m not suggesting his presentation is transferrable, but maybe the underlying “authenticity” (scare quotes because overused!) is valuable. People hate politicians, and he doesn’t sound like one.
lowtechcyclist
@Chet Murthy:
Especially after having done all we could to aid Four Directions in getting out the Native American vote. It made sense at the time.
Besides this surprising piece of information, the main new thing I’ve learned was what someone linked to from Steve M. at No More Mister Nice Blog about credit card debt and credit card interest rates both going way up during Biden’s Presidency.
One thing I remember from the late 1970s is that there used to have been usury laws that capped interest rates. These caps were set at fixed percentage numbers, though, and when the prime rate was on its way past 20%, those laws were basically repealed en masse, otherwise no new lending could have happened at all.
My thought is, there still needs to be some laws like that. They’d have to be linked to something variable, like the prime rate or the Fed funds rate, but at least there would be a limit again. If the cap was prime rate + 18%, then at least when the prime rate went up to 7%, nobody could be charged 30% on their credit cards because 25% was the max. (One can argue about what % should be after that + sign, but the main thing is to have it there in the first place.)
My other thought is, I’d like to see that ~50% increase in credit card debt broken down by economic quintile. Were people running up credit card debt because they were just scraping by, or because after buying that fully loaded new F-150, they were having to put groceries on the credit card? A lot of people were spending a lot more than usual over the past few years on vehicles, vacations, and who knows what else, so the increase in credit card debt came as a surprise to me. Maybe not everyone was doing well, but all the indicators said that most people were.
WereBear
@New Deal democrat: Don’t decide today.
That’s how I handle keeping on with my own writing, which might turn out to be a very needed source of income, however small. Our business took a drop and my spidey sense told me it wasn’t one of those seasonal things.
These are the times where we need to find ways to keep our minds off things and get a rest. I’m doing music and history because so much of everything else in the world reminds me of America, and I cry.
Gotta have a break from that, and I found a way, and I am much better. Apparently, sir, this is your art and that is what can save us, even if that’s personal, and for a while.
We could use you. I’m here as a Targeted Professional Cat Lady, because my cats were upset and clung like a parka, all of them :)
I’m here to help people and their cats. After all, Rescue is what I do.
Aussie Sheila
@WhatsMyNym:
Yes. It’s interesting. The gnashing of teeth regarding gender and race as issues in the loss are overdone I think. Not that they were irrelevant. But it’s just over a decade since Obama was elected for a second time. I’m not buying the ‘race’ card here.
Harris was dealt a bad hand. She had to run a race which in the US is usually at least 18 months long, not a hundred odd days.
She was loyal to Biden and couldn’t explain the raison d’être of her campaign. She wasn’t Trump seemed to be the underpinning device.
She was/is a great campaigner and Walz did a sterling job, but with hindsight, Biden should have dropped out last year if she was ever to have a chance.
zhena gogolia
@Professor Bigfoot: I know, right?
Thor Heyerdahl
I remember meeting a bunch of international friends in 2017 and they asked me, “How did the US vote for Trump?” My answer was, “He’s in the World Wrestling Hall of Fame for a reason.”
There will be a lot of shitty stunts that Trump pulls during his term. If he ends up 6 feet under during his term, Vance doesn’t have the ability to play the same evil wresting “heel” Trump does. Trump is beloved because he’s the evil, dark character.
Some Democrats might think it is below them, but it would be worth studying WWE storylines where the hero (known as a “face” in the industry vernacular) builds their story and popularity and overcomes the evil character.
Reading about the internals for Joe, thank goodness the blow-up didn’t happen at the the convention like 1980’s with Kennedy vs Carter. A large majority dysfunctional House without Democratic adults in the other branches to actually govern would have been even worse than the current prospect.
New Deal democrat
@lowtechcyclist:
Everybody, PLEASE hold your horses on that Native American stat.
Natives were probably 1% of the sample size, and so the statistic is *very* likely a case of sampling error. If there were only 5 Natives in the poll sample, and 2 of them voted for Trump, there’s your explanation!
Just as I pointed out yesterday about the alleged culpability of Hispanic men, please don’t jump to conclusions. Half of these early stats are garbage, we just don’t know which half yet.
The Thin Black Duke
I think America lost something more than an election this time, I’m afraid. The repercussions are going to be massive.
AM in NC
So I have a question for y’all. Institutionally, the center and left clearly need to figure out how to stand up media to counter the rightwing lie machine. BUT immediately, what can WE do to try to “change the moral system these people operate in” by changing the information they get.
I’m thinking that we are SO siloed in our own media now, even new media isn’t going to capture their attention. And that’s a years/decades-long project anyway, so what can each of us do NOW?
What do you think about guerrilla action in meat space?
Things like Printing off hundreds of copies of articles each time a woman dies in pregnancy/childbirth post-hobbs, writing “Another mom killed by Republican Politicians” across the top and taping them in women’s bathrooms, on diaper boxes, etc?
Printing up our own stickers of Trump’s orange head and the words “MAGA did this!” to stick to gas pumps (or around grocery stores) when prices inevitably go up.
Or things like: Top tax rate for income made by WORKING A JOB: 39%. Top tax rate for income made through an investment portfolio? 15%. Republicans keep taxes of EVERY working person higher so they can keep their billionaire investors’ taxes low, low, low. That’s not capitalism. That’s predatory oligarchy, brought to you by the MAGA-GOP.
Printing up quotes from the Bible or basic moral precepts we were taught in kindergarten and then give one example of Republicans doing the opposite – print up hundreds of different examples so people are constantly seeing the ways Republicans are morally awful.
Conversely, print up hundreds of stickers touting Democratic/Liberal accomplishments: “Like Overtime pay for overtime work? Thanks Dems!” “Before Social Security 1/2 of Seniors Died in Poverty. Thanks, DEMOCRATS, for putting Americans first!” “National debt under Republicans? billion. National debt under Democrats: x billion. Democrats are Better. Period”
I want Republicans to be confronted with dozens of these factoids in their real lives each and every day. And not just factoids. Statements of morality as well – why what MAGA is doing is immoral and why the Dems are morally and materially better.
It may just be screaming into the void, but we need to do something. Thoughts?
MagdaInBlack
@lowtechcyclist: From the article:
“But the two charts at the top of this post show how the economy looks to people who were already struggling to pay their bills every month when inflation hit. In all likelihood, they pulled out credit cards to buy necessities, and now they can’t pay those credit cards off.”
I know that’s most folks in my “quintile.
Eta: also, insurance co-pays, inexpected car repairs, etc. Some folks don’t have much in the way of emergency funds.
WereBear
@geg6: Is it a college thing, perhaps? You’d be in a good position to guess… since college seems to be one of the most universal factors.
We opened colleges to everyone, one way or another. And some people still won’t go, because they peaked in high school.
And thought it would last…
New Deal democrat
@Quinerly: Thanks
Quinerly
I am looking for a chart about how the pueblo population voted here in NM. We have 8 northern New Mexico Pueblos. (Taos, Tesuque, Picuris, Pojoaque, San Ildefonso, Nambe, Santa Clara, and Ohkay Owingeh).There is a strong Navajo (Dine) population in Gallup and Farmington ( close to AZ border). Pueblos south and west of me include Zia, Zuni, Cochiti, Kewa (Santo Domingo), Santa Ana, Laguna, San Felipe, Jemez, Sandia, Isleta, Acoma. Doing from memory so I hope I got them on. There’s a band of Apache up north (not considered pueblo) and an interesting band of Navajo (Alamo Navajo) near Magdalena. I have gone to a couple of their events. Different from the other Navajo.
I think I can look up voting pueblo by pueblo.
Chris
Oh my God, you too!
I watched a lot of Mission: Impossible on streaming in 2010 or 2011. And when I got to that episode, I absolutely went “oh, come on.” I wasn’t even particularly on the anti-police train yet, but even then I already knew that responding to a couple of cops barging in on you by outragedly invoking your rights wasn’t likely to do much more than guarantee you’d get the shit beat out of you. You can sue the police department after they’re gone, but in the moment, “I know my rights” isn’t magic armor.
Quinerly
@New Deal democrat:
I totally agree about holding our shit about this. I am pretty sure most if not all pueblos (maybe with the exception of Nambe) here in NM went for Harris. I will do that research. Others can dive into the other tribes and reservations.
kalakal
posted in error – deleted
Betty Cracker
@AM in NC: I think it can’t hurt. I admit to being powerless to avoid reading stickers on a gas pump or a sign posted in a restroom stall. People voluntarily curate their media consumption. They can’t control what they see in public spaces.
artem1s
@Betty: I can tell you part of what happened with Sherrod. He was always under attack because Ohio is a state that still has large manufacturing. That means having to work with both big businesses and unions to get things done. Ohio has large urban populations that are socially progressive and diverse. Those urban areas have world class health care and research institutions. But it also has very rural, impoverished areas that have fewer and fewer jobs because of out sourcing to foreign companies. Those white rural areas are being overrun by white flight suburban bedroom communities that are driving up housing and other costs. Small farmers sold off their land to white flighters back in the 70’s and 80’s. The state still grows a good deal of soy beans but mostly agribusinesses that need smaller land footprints have taken over (eggs). The top third of the state might as well be a foreign country as far as the bottom two thirds are concerned.
Ohio spent 5=6 decades replacing good paying manufacturing businesses with suburban malls, fast food, and low paying, part time and seasonal jobs. It still has a good community colleges and private and state universities but graduates usually can’t stay in the state and expect to make a living wage. The brain drain is real.
Sherrod was the victim of his own success. He helped save jobs and protect unions and improve healthcare in the state. Everything he did was going to piss off someone. Keeping business from fleeing – that made him a corporate shill, dotchaknow. Raising minimum wage and voting for ACA pissed off small business owners who are forever whinging about not have a source of cheap labor and the cost of paying benefits and payroll taxes.
bernie moreno literally stole federal money that was supposed to go to those impacted by the opioid crisis and betsy devos still owes the state $57M in unpaid taxes due to her families ponzi schemes and school voucher schemes. First Energy has been stealing money from every household in their service area for over three years because the Governor and GOPer legislature took bribes to pass a bill that subsidizes a broken down nuclear plant and coal plants that have been in operation since the 1920s. The GOPer speaker is in jail. But the ‘big business welfare’ $30 added tax is still being charged on our electric bills because DeWine was paid off to not veto it when it passed and not rescind it when the scandal broke.
Ohio is full of tiny islands of culture that are surrounded by an ocean of ignorance, sloth, greed, and poverty. And Sherrod Brown got blamed for all of it this time around.
WereBear
@The Thin Black Duke: Dying of Whiteness. Book by a doctor explaining that they do.
And they will. OKAY. They are doing it to themselves, since they don’t listen to advice about processed foods, self-medicate with alcohol, and apparently get COVID a couple of times a year because still scared of vaccinations.
But just like the Nazi Reich, self destruction takes so damn long.
Quinerly
@Aussie Sheila:
Agree pretty much 100%.
Quinerly
@Betty Cracker:
I saw where Fetterman said he goes on Joe Rogan’s shows. Says he likes Joe but doesn’t agree with him on much.
Me…I agree with Fetterman on much…but not liking him much right now.
Quinerly
@WereBear:
Conway is next up on MSNBC.
Chris Johnson
This is the way. Right now, being an angry battler is effectively a weapon that’s been taken away from you and held by the enemy. Anything you do or say that’s justifiably aggressive, plays into the spin put on all that, and underscores the felt need to stamp out people like us.
I think there’s one exception: white mutiny. If you are responsible for doing terrible evil, slow-walking and undermining it while looking willing and stupid is a great move. But flipping the bird from the barricades isn’t going to work right now. There may be a time when it returns and becomes the cool thing, but right now it’s self-sabotage, narrative-stoking.
Narrative is literally how they did this and don’t you be stoking it for them, they don’t need help with that.
Be a normie with a memory, be a ghost warrior, support and comfort your community. If there are normies in your community you want to kick because they voted for Trump, what you want to do is watch for whether they like the PRETEND nice savior Trump, or whether they actually just want to beat up helpless people, and if it’s the latter, that alone is grounds to shame the fuck out of them. If left wing people want to do that shame them too! It is safe to shame lefties who do that, because they’re actually on the Trump side, they’re part of how this was done. All that ‘pro-Gaza’ stuff evaporating like mist. Those people were vote suppression. A lot of stuff was vote suppression.
We are builders, not hit squads. Leave the hit squads with nothing to do, make them look grotesque and unreasonable. Take your break, and find stuff to do with your life that coincidentally cares for the people we love, stuff that the ‘savior-seeking’ people will recognize as good. Be the contrast, as their supposed savior starts to show incongruous cracks in the facade. You are who they thought they were voting for. Know that. They done fucked up. They don’t have to always fuck up forever.
Betty Cracker
@Aussie Sheila: I don’t know how much of a factor misogyny was either, but I agree overall that it was more about [gestures vaguely at rubble] than any personal attribute of Harris. I’m not sure anyone from the incumbent party could have won this year, no matter how early they started campaigning.
I will be bitter forever that I lived to see two qualified, competent and intelligent women lose an election to a walking collection of untreated personality disorders.
Chris Johnson
Jesus F. Christ.
You’re almost there. I can’t believe I didn’t spot this.
The Trump persona is HAN SOLO. Even the facial expressions are exactly that. The quipping. The trickster. THAT is who he was sold as.
No wonder ‘he’s a cheat’ didn’t succeed. He’s meant to be Han Solo. He’s supposed to be a scoundrel, but he’s sold as the beloved scoundrel with a heart of gold who saves the day in the last reel.
geg6
@WereBear:
I honestly don’t know. All I can say is what I’ve seen among my students. Today’s students seem to run in packs, almost always based on gender. Reminds me of how high school was when I was young, but had outgrown by the time I got to college, where that wasn’t a thing (late 70s, early 80s). The girls have diverse friends, racially and gender/sexual orientation. They run the clubs and plan the events and have the highest GPAs. The boys are very immature and somewhat insular. You don’t see as much racial mixing and sexual orientation diversity. Although the girls are ver, very social, the boys don’t seem much interested in that. They have their own clubs, whether the sports teams or major-based study groups or video gaming. They cluster in the IT and engineering majors, with some in crim j majors. There are women in all those majors, but they are predominantly male majors. And they stick together like glue. Mostly, their grades are not as good (with some exceptions for the engineers), they rarely volunteer for anything and are not as active on campus. Why this is, I don’t know. I have some guesses, which might or might not be correct. It seems to me, in my capacity in financial aid, that most parents trust their girls to handle their own financial matters after the first semester or year and the girls are glad to take on the adulting that requires. They fill out their own FAFSAs and sign all the paperwork on time and ask questions and for advice. The boys are much more sheltered by their parents. It’s rare that I had one of the boys handling their own finances. Their parents did everything for them for their entire college careers. I interacted with their parents almost exclusively, even after graduating when they have to choose loan payment options. I have asked many a parent, rather sarcastically, if they plan to apply for jobs for their kids or go into interviews with them or go on the job with them. I can only think of a few instances in over 30 years in higher ed when that was the situation with a female students. So, is this part of the problem? Possibly. But I don’t know how to address it.
WereBear
@lowtechcyclist: Hell yes to the last thought. Pent up demand had melted cards for a LOT of people who didn’t find anything else to occupy their time during Lockdown and probably were filled with boredom and resentment.
Just a theory.
Torrey
@MagdaInBlack:
I like that line–polite but unapologetic–and plan to steal it.
No Nym
@geg6: “The boys are much more sheltered by their parents. It’s rare that I had one of the boys handling their own finances. Their parents did everything for them for their entire college careers. ”
That is a very interesting observation, and it tracks with what I saw as a high school teacher back in the ’90s.
zhena gogolia
@Melancholy Jaques: WTF is Pelosi blabbing about? I’m on a news blackout and didn’t see, but I assume it’s partly what Cauvin is responding to in the video I linked to.
No Nym
@The Thin Black Duke: Yes.
Weftage
@Professor Bigfoot:
I’m embroidering this on a wall-tapestry.
Kayla Rudbek
@AM in NC: excellent ideas!
Torrey
@New Deal democrat:
Thank you for this note of caution on taking the (claimed) 10% rightward shift for Native Americans uncritically. I am hoping that our friends at Four Directions may have more information from their greater knowledge of the situation. (I know their work is getting out the vote, not doing statistical analysis of the results, but they’ve got, as OJ Semans put it, moccasins on the ground, so they’ll have a better sense of what really happened.)
UncleEbeneezer
@New Deal democrat: This is so frustrating. And it echoes something I say often: that a large swath of US voters have an immediate repulsion to ANY mention of cultural issues or identity groups. They want color/gender-blind bullshit that pretends that all the Isms and Phobias just don’t exist. It’s extra-frustrating because every identity group tells us that the key to getting their voters is to specifically make pitches to their needs, which not only makes sense but it is morally the right thing to do. But as much as Kamala talked about “every American” and as little as she actually mentioned women, Black People, LGBTQ People etc., the latter was still too much.
On the other side you have these fucking monsters who do nothing but demonize women, LGBTQ People, Black People, Jews, Muslims, Immigrants etc. and blame everything on them.
It’s like the operating rule for the average American voter is: never talk about minority groups, but if you do, you can only talk shit about them, otherwise you’ve lost my vote.
It’s a disgusting and bigoted double-standard and I just have no idea how to go forward with American voters feeling that way. Our Electorate suffers from a malignant tumor of White (and Male, Cis, Het, Christian etc.) Fragility. And I don’t know how anyone can deny it after the past few years.
WereBear
@Chris Johnson: That was lovely. Thank you. Namaste.
maody
@zhena gogolia: this is excellent – thank you. i rarely post, but will prolly begin to since i need an online community to learn from and comiserate with. this old 70 yr old had no idea who this guy existed before today.
WereBear
@Chris Johnson: And the whipped cream on top, don’t forget, was The Apprentice.
That’s who they think he really is.
WereBear
@geg6: Some parents let girls sink or swim while the boys get spoiled. I have heard from teachers than a lot of people fell prey to poor 5 second parenting advice and the like, or something, because they are not… raised with manners? Or, at least, act much younger and more bratty than their age.
Betty Cracker
@UncleEbeneezer: I thought Harris was smart to downplay identity issues because it is off-putting for lots of voters, which sucks but is reality. (Obama did the same.)
But the Trump assholes countered that by running negative ads focused on so-called cultural issues nonstop. I’m assuming Musk futzed around with the algorithms to rip Harris on the same issues on x-Twitter in addition to blasting out that content from his own account.
I think I read somewhere that Trump PACs invested more in anti-trans ads than those highlighting any other issue. I believe it because I saw the misleading ad where Harris describes the availability of gender-affirming care in prisons dozens of times.
YY_Sima Qian
@New Deal democrat: Not sure if you are still reading this thread, but I enjoyed your blog post & look forward to the next installment.
The COVID era inflation was caused by supply chain disruptions (& not so much overheating from massive stimulus & monetary easing), & economists such as Isabella M. Weber, Claudia Sahm, & Stephanie Kelton have shown that there was a huge “seller’s inflation”/”greedflation” (a.k.a. price gauging) component on top of that. Do you think the Fed had to raise interest rates tamp down inflation, purely from a policy perspective?
The standard inflation fighting toolbox is interest rate hikes & fiscal retrenchment. The Biden team listened to the heterodox voices & did not go for austerity, which helped to avert a painful recession, but they had no control over the Fed. It seems to me that COVID inflation could have been addressed by alleviating the supply chain disruptions, combined w/ price controls to deter/prevent price gauging.
That is what the Left Wing government in Spain did: instituted pricing controls, reduced fares for public services, increased taxes on profits. Inflation came down the fastest in Spain of all EU economies, w/o raising interest rates or implementing austerity, & Spain has avoided the recession/stagnation that plagued much of the rest of the EU, & the Left Wing government appears secure. This was already much noted in economist circles in mid-’23.
So, there seems to be a way to deliver what the people everywhere want: low inflation, low unemployment, economic growth, but the means to deliver it was politically unfeasible in the US & in fact mostly outside of the current mental models of most politicians & policymakers/advisors.
Biden also did not help on this score by keeping almost all of the tariffs that Trump had imposed on the US’ trade partners (not just the PRC). Biden escalating the tech war that Trump started against the PRC in fact exacerbated global supply chain disruptions, partially breaking apart long established tech supply chains has an inflationary effect. There are powerful interest groups in the US, influential in both parties, that do not want housing to be easily affordable, & Biden banning Chinese EVs from the US market will not help make autos affordable.
The Harris team had started to catch on, though, evidenced by her anti-price gauging proposals, but it was not part of a coherent & comprehensive program that reinforced each other.
YY_Sima Qian
@YY_Sima Qian: I should also note that the growing cohort of young economists on both sides of the Atlantic that is challenging the [male dominated] economic orthodoxy is overwhelmingly female.
Chris Johnson
@WereBear: But we knew that. Everybody knows part of his persona is Power Man, the you’re fired guy, of The Apprentice. That’s all super obvious.
I did NOT spot that his persona was also Han Solo, but it’s impossible to miss now that I noticed it. That is why you can’t hurt him with his own crimes. That character is supposed to do crimes! And then swoop in at the last moment and save the day.
And that’s what people think they’ve done with their votes.
Hoo boy they done fucked up. This one swoops in but shoots Luke and goes home. They done fucked up.
dc
@Josie: Yep, we are/were doomed by adult sized toddlers.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@New Deal democrat:
Holy crap, I didn’t realize that.
Having “come of age” during that period, the Reagan/Volcker recession was beyond brutal and while technically might have not lasted for a great length of time, in observable reality, it lasted until the late-ish 80s.
And yet, fucking Reagan easily got reelected in 84.
Also too, you’re Bonddad? I read your blog for years then somehow stopped. It’s now back on the list.
dc
@TBone: How many elections did Berlusconi win in Italy?
karen marie
I’d heard there was a circular firing squad. I am glad to continue avoid reading or hearing it. I am on a media blackout since late Tuesday. You kids are saving me. I know that if anything happens that I need to know, it will be reported here.
YY_Sima Qian
US inflation statistics also do not include interest charges, so when CPI came down, people did not feel their wallets loosens because they were still paying for high interests (on mortgages, auto loans, credit card payments). The Biden Administration celebrated the high nominal GDP growth (driven by high inflation), & rather unseemly bragged that the US was leaving the rest of the G7 behind in nominal GDP (further bouyed by USD appreciation), but real GDP growth was mostly middling & a lot of that was not trickling down fast enough to relieve the pressure on working & middle class households.
Telling people the insecurity they feel is “vibecession”, & pointing to economic statistics (that carry caveats) as proof that their perception of household financial conditions is wrong, is a political loser & in fact bad (or at least inadequate) policy.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: I’m sure you’ve noticed before but, within our coalition there is always this debate/fight over how explicit we should be about our policies aimed at helping marginalized groups. Some insist that we need to say the words Woman, Black, Trans, whatever and frankly view it as moral cowardice for us not to say it loud and proud. Others understand the risk of doing so and advocate using more subtle language so as not to turn off potential allies. I’ve seen this conversation happen among Black People re: messaging on police reform before. It gets pretty heated. I really hate the idea of going backwards and having to muzzle our proud desire to stand up for marginalized groups. But even more, I hate that millions of voters are effectively giving us very little choice.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chris Johnson: Is his persona Han Solo or Darth Vader?
KatKapCC
@New Deal democrat:
And how could she have done this, while Biden is President and she is his Vice President, without shitting on him and making it sound like she thinks he fucked up? And by extension, she fucked up, considering she is part of the current administration?
UncleEbeneezer
@KatKapCC: And when she needed every Biden voter who loves the job he did and rightfully considers him one of our best Presidents ever. Wasn’t part of the Monday morning criticism of Al Gore that he distanced himself too much from Bill Clinton? I suspect we’d be seeing the same thing had Kamala “distanced” herself from the most Progressive and effective Presidents in our lifetimes. The problem is Biden is both that and also the one with 40% approval rating and viewed (unfairly, even on our side) as somehow responsible for the price of eggs, gas, housing, and Hamas’ war in Gaza. I’m not sure there was any way for Kamala to distance but also take credit but also avoid blame etc.
Betty Cracker
@UncleEbeneezer: Jabba the Hutt, duh! ;-)
way2blue
@New Deal democrat: Democrats need to significantly intensify their messaging on the great things they’ve accomplished and conversely call out the BS that blankets the media-verse. When people hear Trump’s BS—and it’s not countered. Forcefully. Voters (I assume) figure it must be true. The widespread beliefs on immigration, crime, inflation, economy cited by Trump voters echo Trump’s BS. Even thought these beliefs are wrong. This—going forward—requires aggressive counter messaging. Even, dare I say, some coordination among Democratic talking heads. (My two cents; M2C)
way2blue
@Josie: But. One of the Republican’s super powers is their ability to convince people it’s the Democrats’ fault when their policies mess things up. We desperately need better anticipatory, strategic messaging going forward.
Lily
@Suzanne: To me, that stat needs to be given according to separate NA nations. I know of two northern locations that voted Harris.
Also wonder about the source of the voter counts currently identified in one block. Some polling places were off reservation, some on and some NA voters were counted in places for general population. Does that statistic include all reservation and non reservation poll counts?
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: Lol! Perfect! But in their minds, of course, they are all Han Solo.
donnah
Hey, Girl! I’ve been thinking about you and hope you’re keeping well. I just wanted to let you know I’m still rug hooking, doing some challenging designs, and trying to keep politics from driving me nuts. And I know you’ll keep going strong and kicking ass. Love ya!🥰
Liminal Owl
@Suzanne: This is so good I want to circulate it everywhere. Thank you.
Liminal Owl
@AM in NC: Theoretically I love theidea. In practice, I think Suzanne (@68) is so right that your proposed course of action would make little to no difference. I’m sorry.
Chris
@UncleEbeneezer:
Neither. He’s Jabba.