Remember this. Lock it in. pic.twitter.com/2uCpY2XcWD
— Willie Ross Jr. Knee Deep (@RossKneeDeep) November 9, 2024
Do these numbers look correct to you jackals? I wanna start screaming like a weasel about the Trump Recession as soon as his band of miscreants prop him up on the inaugural riser…
Elizabeth Warren: The Plan to Fight Back After 2024 Election | TIME https://t.co/qJzF2LCepY
— SKD (@sherylkayed) November 8, 2024
I still love my senior Senator — she’s an inspiration. A heartening epistle via Time, “Here’s the Plan to Fight Back”:
… As we confront a second Donald Trump presidency, we have two tasks ahead. First, try to learn from what happened. And then, make a plan…
What comes next? Trump won the election, but more than 67 million people voted for Democrats and they don’t expect us to roll over and play dead. We will have a peaceful transition of power, followed by a vigorous challenge from the party out of power, because that’s how democracy works. Here’s a path forward.
First, fight every fight in Congress.
We won’t always win, but we can slow or sometimes limit Trump’s destruction. With every fight, we can build political power to put more checks on his administration and build the foundation for future wins. Remember that during the first Trump term, mass mobilization—including some of the largest peaceful protests in world history—was the battery that charged the resistance. There is power in solidarity, and we can’t win if we don’t get in the fight…Second, fight Trump in the courts.
Yes, extremist courts, including a Supreme Court stocked with MAGA loyalists, are poised to rubber-stamp Trump’s lawlessness. But litigation can slow Trump down, give us time to prepare and help the vulnerable, and deliver some victories.
Third, focus on what each of us can do.
I understand my assignment in the Senate, but we all have a part to play. During the first Trump administration, Democrats vigorously contested every special election and laid the groundwork to take back the House in the 2018 midterms, creating a powerful check on Trump and breaking the Republican trifecta. Whether it’s stepping up to run for office, supporting a neighbor’s campaign, or getting involved in an organization taking action, we all have to continue to make investments in our democracy—including in states that are passed over as “too red.” The political position we’re in is not permanent, and we have the power to make change if we fight for it.Finally, Democrats currently in office must work with urgency.
While still in charge of the Senate and the White House, we must do all we can to safeguard our democracy. To resist Trump’s threats to abuse state power against what he calls “the enemy within,” Pentagon leaders should issue a directive now reiterating that the military’s oath is to the Constitution. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer must use every minute of the end-of-year legislative session to confirm federal judges and key regulators—none of whom can be removed by the next President.To those feeling despair: I understand. But remember, every step toward progress in American history came after the darkness of defeat. Abolitionists, suffragettes, Dreamers, and marchers for civil rights and marriage equality all faced impossible odds, but they persisted. Now it is our turn to pull up our socks and get back in the fight.
My message about the election results: pic.twitter.com/Z1X9F6jWik
— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) November 6, 2024
Baud
On Reddit and Bluesky, I’ve noticed a calculated attempt by the “Left” and/or people pretending to the the “Left” to demonize “Liberals.” My guess is that this is an attempt to sow divisions to hamper push back against Trump.
H.E.Wolf
Good morning, y’all. When we’re ready: shoulders to the boulder.
It’s how we roll. :)
Xantar
I’m not ready to get back into the fight. I struggle with depression which has gotten worse these past few days. I don’t know when I’ll be able to get back into because right now I can barely even stand to look at the news without causing my mood to tank precipitously.
I want to put my shoulder to the wheel again. I just can’t. Intellectually, I know from past outbreaks of depression that I will eventually recover and this current state will be a memory. But right now it’s all so fresh and raw.
I guess what I’m hoping by posting this is that someone tells me it’s ok to wait. For a few weeks or a few months or however long it takes for me to feel better. I feel kind of selfish asking that of you all, but you really can ease my mind a bit if you tell me a few words.
Thank you all.
Halteclere
A relative in Finance yesterday said that her group is expecting a really good 2025 because of Trumps win. When I said that her group has been talking about a good 2025 for a couple months already, her response was “That was in anticipation of a Trump win”.
The narrative MUST be maintained that only Rs are good for the economy, no opposing facts are allowed!
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: And some of it is influenced / funded by the Russians.
Baud
@Xantar:
Of course. Take care of yourself.
Butch
Don’t mean it as unrealistic optimism, but does anyone else doubt that Trump can serve out a full term? Either age or the grim reaper or his own progressive dementia are doing to do him in, and then we’ll be left with President Vance, who has no constituency. I don’t know what it would mean, but I’ve thought about that possibility more than once
To Xantar: yes, it’s OK. Take care of yourself.
prostratedragon
@Baud: Yes. As ever.
sab
Time to get my “Nevertheless she persisted” t-shirt out.
MagdaInBlack
@Xantar: It’s ok to wait. I’m circling the black hole myself.
WereBear
Senator Warren is right!
And she persists. I can do no less. I can be a very persistent woman. My mother called me the most stubborn child in the whole world.
It’s my nature :)
Baud
@Butch:
Beyond our control.
Steve LaBonne
I will be at (UU) church shortly and I’ll see what people are thinking. I believe that at least for the time being the focus has to be on whatever local actions will help to protect the most vulnerable people. Especially here in red America.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
rikyrah
@Butch:
We will be looking at President Vance by June 2025.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
AM in NC
@Xantar: Absolutely it is ok to wait until you are able to participate in a healthy way. People are going to have to dip in and out for the next four/eight/twelve years.
Just about the time someone working right now gets overwhelmed and has to tap out for a bit, you’ll be ready to re-join the fight while they rest and recuperate.
We ALL need to make sure we are ok, or there won’t be anyone left to fight later.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
I’d put milk closer to $3 – unless you’re buying the free-range grass-fed recycleable-bottle boutique stuff in which case it’s closer to $12. But bread is more like $3 a loaf.
Otherwise about right.
New Deal democrat
An interesting breakdown of voters, and in particular male voters by age from Michael Hobbes:
https://bsky.app/profile/michaelhobbes.bsky.social/post/3lajn753ew72x
The generational pattern is the same regardless of the breakdown. Voters under age 30 are the Bluest, followed by – hope you are sitting down for this – seniors. Millennials follow close behind seniors.
And the reddest generation by far? Those born in the 1960s and 1970s.
In particular, men (of all races) only favored Trump by 2%, 49%-47%. By contrast, males of the Carter/Reagan generation males favored Trump by 60%-38%.
This validates my pre-Election Day “fundamentals” analysis in part: Dems were helped, relatively speaking, by the Bluish 1950s Boomers, while the Carter/Reagan generation who have reached the age where they vote in droves, boosted Trump. What I missed is that the latter overwhelmed the former.
——
Also: Dan Guild has a note up this morning, in which he writes that he knew Harris was going to lose, by 7:45pm on Election night, based on early returns from red counties in KY and IN showing Trump doing slightly better than his 2020 numbers, and from a few blue counties in NH showing Harris falling far short of Biden’s 2020 numbers.
Why so many Biden 2020 voters simply stayed home last Tuesday is one of the biggest stories of the Election.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
One of our weaknesses has been focusing on national stuff and ignoring local connections. So hopefully this will haveong term benefits.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Thank you, as always Senator Warren.
And for something to brighten up your day musically:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enuOArEfqGo
Best part is ‘The Ecstasy of Gold’ which starts at 2:40. Note the number of views, currently at 148m! I’ve read interviews with the vocalists back when it was “just” at 100m views and nobody had a clue.
If that’s not enough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnB4spzCVEc
Anybody familiar with Hozier will recognize him as a relative lad when this was done. Wait for the horns to come in at the start of “Breathe Reprise”, it’s a tingle moment.
It’s stuff like this that might help us all get thru the next 4 years. I woke up at 1am and couldn’t go back to sleep thinking about this. Never in my 6+ decades on this planet have I felt this way.
mrmoshpotato
@Xantar: When you’re ready. It’s been less than a week since this catastrophe.
Take care of yourself. :)
rikyrah
@Xantar:
Here I am.
It’s okay for you to take care.
I haven’t watched any political news since Monday.
You take as long a break to heal as you need.
Layer8Problem
Sometime back in May I posited that if the wrong thing happened in this election I would end up like the guy at the end of that Borges short story, determinedly ignoring reality changing around me and doing something else. I feel that way right now, but I firmly expect that will change. The landscape has moved, we need to get our bearings, fix on a few common points of reference, and move forward. Right now let those who need time to recover do so and let those with the strength start planning. We will regroup and continue.
WereBear
@Butch: I think about his impending death all the time. Because he’s got months, not years, before he’s a puddle of plasma.
Cults generally don’t have a good record when they lose their guru. In small, highly insular groups, it hasn’t necessarily collapsed it, if a trusted person who was already in good with the cult members takes over.
Now, it doesn’t matter that this cult is so big, because they have a fake Trump in their head, anyway. But I don’t see ANY contenders because Trump wouldn’t allow it.
Maybe a televangelist will try next. That, and WWE, might be where the replacement comes from.
They’ve been trained for YEARS to like fake wrestling (Drama for adolescents, I’ve always thought) and for everyone who hasn’t grown out of it, they have lost their taste for actual, working, politician types.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Does Ross give the source of those numbers?
UncleEbeneezer
I just saw a tweet saying that when focus groups were asked if they were concerned that Trump was too much of an Authoritarian the most common response was “what’s an Authoritarian?” Between that and:
• the tendency of voters to believe lies from right-wing media,
• the assumption that Dems do a bunch of things they actually don’t and Republicans would never do the things they actually do,
• their extreme fragility response the moment anyone mentions marginalized groups,
• widespread voter apathy,
• widespread obsession with BothSides™ bullshit
• and all the other structural disadvantages facing Dems (gerrymandering etc.)
I just have no idea at this point. Our voters are not just Racist and Misogynist AF, they are also really fucking stupid. They want tire rims and anthrax and will blame it on Dems/Women/BlackPeople/Transgender/Immigrants.
Raoul Paste
@Butch: Serve out a full term? I doubt it to . In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if his inaugural address is a shocking display of cognitive decline.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@rikyrah More like January 2027. They have to prop up the Orange Carcass long enough to give Vance his full two-terms-or-ten-years. There’s not enough time to push through a repeal of the 22nd by 2030, and Amendments are Constitutional by definition so SCOT[F]US can’t just annul that one.
narya
@Xantar: @MagdaInBlack: I wish I could make a meal for you. IMHO, part of what it means to be in this together is that we shore each other up as needed and when needed.
Halteclere
@Halteclere: It’s like Trump was a pilot of a plane, and refused maintenance prior to takeoff. About the time that the engines began flaming out, Biden took over. After Biden got the plane out of the nose dive and under control, and on a glide path to the runway, Trump is back in control again. Guess who’ll get the credit for safely landing the plane, because “the flight was terrible when Biden was in control”.
New Deal democrat
@Butch:
I agree, although per the actuarial tables, he is likely to survive, given the issues we all know about, I put the odds at no better than 50/50.
Small sliver of a silver lining: as bad as a President Vance would be, at bottom unlike Trump I do not think he is a wannabe autocrat. He is likely to accept Constitutional restraints on his power as he understands them. Like a President Dick Cheney.
Thor Heyerdahl
@Xantar: Please take care of your health. I pictured the bicycle riding at the Tour de France and how the teams ride in groups (pelotons).
No one is at the front of the all the time because being the first takes much more energy. People slipstream off the person at the front, and swap positions in the group to help conserve energy as required.
When/if your health allows, it will be the right time.
WereBear
@Xantar: Of course it’s okay to wait. Put your mask on, first.
That is what it means.
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
I turn 75 today. I was hoping to thank everyone here for all the work you did to help make this a joyous day. The gratitude is still here, but the sentence has to be truncated. I don’t expect to see any joyous days for a while. Knowing that sanity and decency may not return to our politics in my lifetime is rather depressing. That said, I don’t plan to tune out on politics because I don’t think any of us can afford to for long. That’s about the best pep talk I can manage right now. I hope others can do better.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@New Deal democrat:
Despite all the sturm & drang here and elsewhere since Tuesday night, this remains the $100K Question.
I certainly get Cole’s take (white tribal voting against a black women) and mistermix’s (Drive The Car Into A Ditch, Then Drive It Out Again) but after that?
Probably the main bright (and I use “bright” very loosely here) is the fact that in terms of raw numbers of the popular vote, the Orange Far Cloud didn’t increase any.
But why so many people sat at home…we’re all gonna pay a steep price for that.
MagdaInBlack
@narya: ❤️🌻
Layer8Problem
@New Deal democrat: Bull. What evidence do you have that he will not do whatever springs to mind? Vance will do what his patron orders him to, or he will decide the presidency means he has the freedom to decree. It falls on the people around him to say “Um, actually, don’t you think that’s a bit extreme?” or to declare that anything goes and that their group is just as qualified to run things.
NotMax
Weekend watch.
The dog who crossed a continent.
;)
MagdaInBlack
I’m not going to fuss about prices. The prices up top are pretty close to what they are here., except for rents, and in that cost I am fortunate. But I DO know my wages have not increased. There has never been much slop in my budget, and there still is not. I don’t blame Biden for this.
The end.🌻🌻
munira
@Xantar: Yes, it’s ok to wait. You have to take care of yourself. This fight will still be going on when you’re ready.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@WereBear:
Every time I think of the media then reporting on “President Vance”, I throw up a little bit in the back of my throat.
I do relish the thought that the Orange Fart Cloud’s gravesite will need to be somehow protected from general, casual public access because what’ll happen to it won’t be pretty…in a good way.
narya
For the Springsteen fans here, last night I watched “Road Diary.” I am not am impartial observer (I’ve been a fan since the very very beginning); that said, I liked it, and my non-Springsteen-fan Friend did as well, because it actually has a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff–more technical than gossipy, so it might appeal for people who are interested in how live performances are assembled. I watched on Hulu; no idea if it’s on other platforms.
Another Scott
Good reminders by Warren.
Everyone needs to find ways to decompress. It’s hard. I’ve been avoiding politics news, mostly.
Fingers crossed that Pelosi ends up correct and we grab the House.
We need to remember, I think, that politics is slow. There are 71 days remaining in the Biden-Harris term. Burning ourselves out before the inauguration won’t help.
It’s going to be a slog and some painful days are ahead. Whether hope is a thing with feathers or a rat, it’s important to hang on to it.
Be kind to yourselves and others.
As I mentioned downstairs, A.R. Moxon / JuliusGoat has a new (long) essay on his substack think. No magic solutions, but some good reminders. Fighting in the dark. One can quibble about things here and there, but it’s a thoughtful piece.
Hang in there, everyone.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Xantar
I am just a lurker around here most of the time. The fact that so many of you are willing to offer me comfort and encouragement to do what’s best for me is moving in a way I can’t describe. None of you know me, but something as simple as typing words on a screen can truly help me.
I won’t be around for a while, but in the end I can’t stay away from you all either.
Thank you. Thank you all.
Rachel Bakes
@Xantar: the sense of loss and overwhelming depression is real and you aren’t weak or letting the side down for feeling it. Take care of yourself; get through with whatever help you need. The fight will still be going on when you return to the fight.
munira
@Butch: Yes, I have thought about that and the possibility of him just being sidelined somehow because he’s totally lost it mentally. A fascist regime doesn’t survive the demise of the cult leader or so I’ve read, except for countries with a dynasty and no history of democracy like North Korea.
narya
@Another Scott: I fibrillated on linking that piece. I very much like the three recommendations–especially “keep doing the things that fascists can’t do, like making art and music”–but I thought there was way too much Dem-bashing, and many here, especially including me, do NOT want to hear that crap. Glad someone else saw it though. ;-
Ed to correct negatives
UncleEbeneezer
@Xantar: Right there with you. I’m in a combo of daze, depression and absolute rage. Still trying to figure out the best way to manage my own mental health. Went and saw some old friends last night and caught up with another on the phone Friday and that definitely helped. But only temporarily. I don’t want to completely disconnect from news/politics because honestly I get a lot of comfort and joy from being informed and knowing I’m not at all alone, but I will definitely need to mix things up for a bit.
Suburban Mom
@Steve LaBonne: if you are in NJ (I think I saw that in one of your posts) would you be willing to share what congregation you’re involved with? I’m looking.
narya
Anyone interested in food blogging? I have a nearly-moribund site, but if it would provide distraction for others, I could resurrect it . . .
WereBear
I can’t help it, I’ve always studied cults. If only I was in grad school now, right? It’s also a Folly of Crowds situation, where a mind-virus spreads through the population.
The Hardcore History Series with Dan Carlin had a podcast about one Catholic town in Germany where a Protestant missionary turned up. It was like setting fire to the town, this new way of thinking about God. Now it’s half the town against the other half.
After a grueling siege that required a lot of ugly action, they did what was standard at the time. And probably the only sensible thing that wouldn’t start it up again.
They made the preacher who came to town and started the whole thing, responsible. Not a scapegoat, really: he had done something. And it was not a humane execution. Those who had followed him were on probation, and I would have shown up for Mass, just out of self defense.
But of course, religious mania has its own categories of hurricane strength because it seems to spring from our own DNA. EVERY cult has its religious component, as they manipulate our very psyche to believe different things, to make us into different people.
I’m just a DIY person. No one else is going to understand me, because I’m unique. And it wasn’t easy in my coming-of-age tale, because all around me, so many others were trying to be all the same.
They are the ones who are often twisted and sick as a result, acting all the time on this that — at least — aren’t true for them. It hasn’t been easy being an individual in an oppressive belief system. (We are dueling belief systems now. Holy wars.)
But it is the only way an individual gets out alive.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Another Scott:
Actually, I didn’t find anything to quibble with, notwithstanding a bit of Horseshoe Left language beating on Dems as narya noted above.
However, when the “happiest” thing said was this:
The last 4 sentences subsequently in the piece don’t really make up for the rest of it which is why it’s so easy to see many people here proverbially checking out for a while. Take care y’all and hopefully we’ll all still be here when we come out the other side.
I for one don’t plan on growing (much) older in a fascist dictatorship.
Kathleen
@Xantar: Honor yourself for where you are. Allow yourself to explore what actions you can take that are helpful to you. Put your emotional, physical, mental needs first. Take one action a day that makes you feel good (special cup of coffee, TV show, book, whatever). Just sharing what has helped me in the past.
Baud
@New Deal democrat:
If true, I hope that’s the end of the generational wars that our side has been engaging in for the last four years, which has done nothing except to divide us and help fascists.
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Me too, rikyrah. No news sites since before the horrible night.
Another Scott
@Halteclere: I had a brief text conversation with a social worker in NC yesterday. She’s a sweet little old woman and puts her heart into her work. We’ve never talked politics. I asked her for her thoughts on some paperwork for my brother and she said that the “election was a disaster down here, so we probably should wait until Trump takes office”. I was taken aback, but shouldn’t have been, of course. I said “ok” and thanked her all she’s doing to help.
(Democrats won the statewide offices in NC.)
We’re a big country with lots of different communities with strongly held views. And we have been for a very long time. We’ll find a way to muddle through, probably. I hope…
Best wishes,
Scott.
NotMax
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
Nine bucks at the local supermart. Which is about 1½ times as much as at markets in town.
TBone
Always thus, the pendulum swings.
New Deal democrat
@Layer8Problem: I have no problem with a difference of opinion, but I will remember that you started out with this personal aspersion:
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all!
Recovering (hopefully) from case of the crud that’s put me down the last couple of days.
Coffee? Check.
Now, time to read the comments!
Layer8Problem
@UncleEbeneezer: Right now here is where I see I’m not alone, and my local public house. Not all in agreement but with a common sense of relatedness.
Expect that the trolls, bots, and foreign operators will continue to drive wedges. They expect their monkey-wrenching will have no blowback, an overly clever assumption since what scheme doesn’t have unforeseen effects? Whatever we feel now, we are not powerless.
oldgold
Last Sunday I was stricken by a serious mental condition that has left me dispirited
As is my custom, I was up at the crack of 10:30 AM. Was handed a cup of the Motherlode’s diesel coffee and encouraged to fetch the Des Moines Register that was lying at the top of our too long driveway. Dressed in my oversized robe, worn leather slippers and weathered Hawkeye cap, hunched over doing the spring time of my dotage shuffle, I trudged slowly up the driveway. Wheezing and muttering darkly about the Orange Menace, I got there, rolled the rubber band down, opened the paper and peered through my spectacles, perilously perched at the end my bony nose, at the front page headline. “HOLY SHIT!”, I bellowed. (Well, it was Sunday after all.)
With the weight of the world off my shoulders, adjusting my Hawkeye cap so the bill was backwards, up on my toes, back straight, at damn near sprinter speed, I headed back to the shack, screaming “We got this!”
Bursting into the house like a rooster on Viagra entering a hen house, I crowed, “Kamala is up 4 in IOWA!” The Motherlode, giving me the have you been early morning drinking again stink-eye, “OG, says who?” Me, “Ann Selzer.” Motherlode, “Hand me that damn fish wrapper.”
Now, in Iowa we don’t believe in much, but in sweet corn, our black dirt and Ann Selzer we do.
That is when I was stricken with a virulent mental disorder mostly confined to the upper Midwest – cornfirmation bias. Thereafter, for the next 72 hours I only accepted information that cornfirmed my belief that Kamala was going to win. Hell, Ann Selzer said so! Motherlode, who makes Nancy Pelosi look like a wish-washy Democrat, and me were in victory mode living our best lives with our dem bulb buddies.
When the fever broke early Wednesday morning, let me tell you I was a hurtin for certain old Iowa cornfused cob.
From this day forward, Ann Selzer will be known to me as Buttercup. Because she built me up to just let me down.
ewrunning
I like everything Senator Warren wrote. I have to point out, however, that since she wrote it the west coast mail in vote has continued to be counted and the total number of votes for Kamala is now almost 71 million. The other guy’s total (74, 650.000 +) is just a little under 500,000 more than he got in 2020 and his popular vote percentage (now down to 50.5%) continues to fall. Since Biden got over 81 million votes, its clear that a very sizable number of 2020 presidential election voters did not vote this time. Nobody seems to be talking about that, which to me could be as important or even more important that the relatively small shifts in how relatively small demographic groups voted that many commentators are obsessing about.
prostratedragon
Quick survey of Chicago food stores through Instacart shows ground beef (85% lean) spot on, whole milk about right on average though $1 less is pretty easy to find, ditto for large eggs unless one eschews thin yolks. Multigrain bread is pretty high, not easy to find under $5; some small label brands are more budget-friendly.
WereBear
@Halteclere: Yes. Which is why we have to concentrate on the people who stayed home, because they still clung to “business as usual,”
But were not cult members. That’s a lot of apathetic depressed people who have no faith in our brand, which has been ruined, but can be rebuilt.
Maybe we can have a new nickname. “Oh, no thanks, don’t waste your Trump Tract on me. I belong to the Sane Party.”
WIngnuts are very sensitive to their mental state because it does sucks Jupiter sized gonads. That’s why they have that “startled horse” eye-rolling before they start chanting against demons.
Which is me, for talking about science.
Betty Cracker
@Xantar: & @MagdaInBlack: It’s okay take time to heal! Lots of us are right there with y’all.
TBone
@Xantar: my cousin in Michigan (who met Tim & Gwen Walz the day before his debate and has been so excited this whole time) rebuffed me when I attempted to check in yesterday and got too political. She is taking a break and that’s perfectly OK. When I said “See you soon!” she knows I meant “whenever ‘soon’ is for YOU.”
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
You broke blog.
rikyrah
I am the most political person that Peanut knows. I am here and not watching any cable news. She knows that something has shifted in me. She has been so sweet, getting me to watch Christmas movies with her yesterday. 😔😔
NotMax
@Xantar
It’s more than okay to wait and recharge.
That storied wheel will still be there when you’re ready.
Quinerly
OT
Sweet little piece on Dylan.
https://www.thetimes.com/culture/music/article/bob-dylan-uk-tour-biopic-royal-albert-hall-8bdjnfcwd
Phylllis
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: There’s an article in the Post & Courier today about how SC African Americans, who have been the most reliable of Dem voters, are moving right. Here’s the opening:
Guess she didn’t feel like Kamala was someone she could have a beer with.
TBone
might sound trite but it is not.
Nukular Biskits
@Xantar:
A little late to the thread but self-care is important. Do you first.
Layer8Problem
@New Deal democrat: Personal aspersion? Have I called you a bull? It was a strong expression of disagreement with your, in my opinion, naive assertion that Vance would stay within rails. If strong expressions of disagreement to what you say are a problem for you you might wish to consider looking to other, less argumentative blogs.
TBone
@sab: 💙
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@ewrunning:
A lot of us have been talking about that and tracking the numbers as they’ve been coming in, looking at the race tighten (although still over). No lessons from that, as yet. Hopefully over the next 18 months, we’ll learn some.
Still counting on the voters of CA to pull our asses out of the fire vis a vis the House.
Elizabelle
@Kathleen: All good advice. And I am going to think good thoughts for Xantar, and everyone else in trauma right now, while brewing that coffee or tea, or enjoying being outside in the fresh air.
Do not neglect the creature comforts.
We are alive. We can enjoy them, and deserve to.
Nukular Biskits
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride:
Happy b’day!
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: I’m throwing you a line like the mountain climbers use, while screaming into the abyss:
prostratedragon
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride: Still, Happy Birthday!🥂
Another Scott
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: That’s not the end. Keep going. (The breaks confused me about whether he was done, too.)
Best wishes,
Scott.
TBone
@WereBear: 💚
WereBear
@rikyrah: And boy oh boy is he popular, right?
Charisma is a powerful thing we don’t understand. Get a con artist with it, like Trump, and people will do all kinds of senseless things because it’s celebrity worship and love-addled and feeling joy, even if it’s joy like scratching their eczema with a dirty stick.
Because now they HURT instead of ITCH. It’s a change! That, and potlucks, were what passed for allowed pleasures in the SBC.
They have to control the environment to stay sane. Our “goodness” drives them crazy all by itself, because inside every Born Again there is an ocean of deep dark doubt. They tell themselves they are the “good ones” and yet we constantly challenge that by BEING PEOPLE.
I honestly think that is what we are up against. These people were crazy, before. If we had a Mars ship I’d send them.
We change their culture just by standing there. That’s why they hate us and call us demons.
That’s how their brain makes sense of it. This is your brain on dogma by con artists.
Chris
@Baud:
No more than the reverse. The narrative of “we lost because we were too far left!” is already being trumpeted far and wide, with the usual vagueness about exactly what that means.
ewrunning
Following on to my comment at 64 above, it seems to me the Democrats’ focus, should be less on how to halt the drift of this or that particular sub-group of voters in Trump’s direction and more on how to get those who voted in 2020 and didn’t in 2024 back to the voting booth.
As for reasons for hope, I think we need to be ready to use the Republicans’ delusions about a massive mandate against them as soon as they start trying to impose the very unpopular elements of their agenda. Just as George W. Bush learned with his Social Security proposals of 2004 or, less positively as Obama discovered on health care in 2009, people are anxious for “change” in the abstract, but very prone to be fearful about change when it comes to specifics. I’m not suggesting we replicate the “Tea Party,” but we definitely need to find all available means to put massive pressure on House and Senate Republicans over every unpopular measure, whether its proposed legislation or Trump’s unilateral executive action. To the extent Trump’s second administration is any more “effective” in carrying out its goals this time it will become that much harder for GOP members to dodge the backlash. This is much different than simply running away from reporters down the Capitol hallways saying that “I haven’t read the tweet,”
We’re also going to have opportunities to take advantage of the “pendulum swing” nature of post presidential election politics. Virginia and New Jersey have gubernatorial elections next year, and the legacy media and pundits, as much as they are in the tank for Republicans, are still going to be primed to read a Democratic victory in Virginia as a referendum on Trump. We need to exploit every one of these victories to the maximum to make clear he’s a lame duck loser.
Similarly, there are likely to be some House and Senate Republicans resigning to take jobs in the administration. This will have multiple advantages. First, it will get some real nutcases out of the Congress. Secondly, they are doubtless going to prove themselves completely incompetent at their new jobs given their own limitations and due to the fact that they will be provided with staff vetted for ideological purity rather than experience and competence (a la occupation era Iraq). It will also give us some special elections to fill the resultant vacancies, with the media and punditocracy again primed to read any Republican electoral reverses as a referendum against Trump (like Scott Brown’s MA Senate win early in Obama’s first term).
I’m not being a Pollyanna. I now how dangerous the present situation is and how awful things are going to be. I have friends and extended family in the queer community and deep empathy with the immigrant and refugee communities not to mention Ukraine. It’s all been waking me up at three in the morning or earlier every night since Tuesday. What I’m saying we need to be ready to take advantage of our foreseeable
opportunities and pour it on when they come.
UncleEbeneezer
@Layer8Problem: Absolutely. It’s one reason while I may stop by a little less often I certainly won’t completely abandon it. Too many good people (even ones I completely disagree with) and I get a lot of support, hope and community here. Families are messy and BJ is a family. I do think that spending more time with Normies would be good for me so I’m probably gonna lean into that a bit, where I can.
Baud
@Chris:
Yeah, but saying we lost because we were too left or two right is different. The stuff I’m seeing is about demonizing liberals as a group of people. It’s not about platform.
Soprano2
I pretty much quit listening to the news, too. Maybe I’ll keep that up for awhile, if I want to know things I’ll probably get them here. It’s been good for my mental health.
I have a kind of controversial idea. I read a book by Andrew Hacker back in 1992 called “America, Black and White, Unequal”. In it he predicted what happened with Latino men in this election, and said that white is not a race but a fluid category. He said eventually more and more Asians and Latinos would see themselves as culturally “white”, and would be accepted that way by other white people, and would start being like them. He said the only group he thinks can never assimilate like that is black people, partly because they can’t blend in visually (I’m not sure about that, I’ve seen a lot of black people who look white to me) as well as for other reasons. My take from this is that as long as Democrats are seen as the party of black people, we’ll have a heavier lift with others. I’ll be back later to see how mad I made people.
I saw a video from TikTok of a young White woman crying because her family cut her off because she voted for the Orange Menace. I had to laugh, she was gloating about the win of a rapist and a fascist, what did she expect? Leopards eating faces, people.
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: Is it still under warranty?
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Xantar: Take care of you. It’s necessary. And sometimes it’s all we can do. We’ll need you tomorrow: do what you need today to be there then.
I think all of us are doing a bit of that. Soon-to-be deckhand_srq – who’s an EU citizen – and I are sorting out where we can settle together now it seems legal immigration to the US is about to get shut down. Not all of us looking into leaving the US are fleeing Felonious Thunk; some are trying to find places where we can be with loved ones who can’t come here.
NotMax
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
Have a happy!
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: ❤️💜❤️
Right back atcha 🎶🤘😎
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ubXx8tMGJCg
Layer8Problem
@Soprano2: She’ll find a new family I’m sure, just as nice.
SFAW
@Xantar:
As others have said: please take care of yourself. And I/we look forward to the day when you feel OK enough to come back here.
Omnes Omnibus
I see no evidence of that.
WereBear
@New Deal democrat:
Not to me. This is the pervasive “the Dems will fix it” and, I repeat, FEAR.
Voting would have fixed the fear and our nation. Vague fears are always WRONG — because we run from a hornet we see — not leap around the house because a trinket looked something like a hornet.
Yet they spend so much time dodging imaginary fears, along with the utterly American complacence that things are supposed to always go their way, because this is America, etc.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@rikyrah: I hear ya. For me this Veterans Weekend is all Navy flicks (for Dad): Hunt for Red October, Pearl Harbor, Midway, Greyhound. Minimal news, minimal external engagement
Steve LaBonne
@Suburban Mom: Sorry, I am in Ohio (Medina, near Akron and Cleveland). Your best bet is the “find a congregation” tab at uua.org.
Nukular Biskits
Since this is an open thread, I know I’m probably obsessed with this and have mentioned it a couple times, but what are the thoughts of the Jackalariat on engaging in some kind of economic activity against business interests. Be it via outright boycotts, individual decisions, advertising against said businesses (within legal constraints, of course), etc?
How would you organize it and on what scale?
How would it work?
Sorry, not sorry, folks but I really want to bring the pain to those who supported Trump, at least to those with economic power. As for the rank ‘n’ file folks who voted for him out of “economic anxiety”, I figure Karma will probably visit FAFO upon them about the middle of Trump’s second year in office in terms of higher prices, etc.
Jackie
@Xantar:
@MagdaInBlack:
This is me. I can’t read much of BJ – I can’t handle the could’ve/should’ve blame and doom threads. Never could, actually. I’m a seek and focus on the positive and I’m not finding it here right now. A post may start positive but devolve into negativity almost from the getgo. So I do a lot of skimming and skipping posts.
I live in a blue state and KNOW Trump will aim his revenge on blue states first.
In fact I read WA and Utah(!?!) were the only states whose votes for Trump decreased from ‘20, although, of course Utah still voted Trump. We’ll pay for that, I’m sure.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Omnes Omnibus: Ditto.
In fact, I see him discarding any fetters his Reichwingnut backers permit him to.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Xantar: There’s a saying about a choir: the entire choir can hold a note for far longer than any individual can, because members of the choir can drop out from holding the note to catch their breath, and then resume.
It’s okay to catch your breath. There are people holding the note until you’re ready to jump back in.
WereBear
@Raoul Paste: Well yeah, if we are talking comparatively about the first one.
The look on President Obama’s face that day was all I needed to know about the dimensions of the disaster.
We should have an anti-Inauguration party. Honestagod, Trump is not the only one obsessed with crowd size.
We still need rallies from our leaders. We still need to show up in overwhelming numbers, visibly.
Work on their cognitive dissonance.
Now that we know how delusional they are, act like the problem is Zombies. Because that is what it is and they are incurable.
Nukular Biskits
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq):
Having worked antisubmarine warfare in the early part of my career, I was excited when “The Hunt for Red October” came out on film … and then was so disappointed in it that I couldn’t make it past the first half of the movie.
Nukular Biskits
@WereBear:
I’m game!
SFAW
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride:
You might be right, but maybe this fantasy will console you. Or at least give you something to daydream about:
On Inauguration Day, that hoped-for-and-well-targeted giant meteor takes out both Trump and Vance, and Speaker Hakeem Jeffries is sworn in as President.
apocalipstick
@Xantar:
You can only take action when you can take action. If your own mind isn’t right, you really can’t help others. Perhaps the best thing you can do right now is get healthy: that can relieve a lot of stress for your loved ones and might be your primary contribution.
I suffer from periods of dark frustration and hopelessness. It’s gone on for better than fifty years. I don’t know if it rises to the level of depression, but about fifteen years ago I made a change in the way I deal with them. I used to try and fight them, which made them worse because it never alleviated the mood and made me feel like more of a failure. Fifteen years ago I started reminding myself “Yes, you always get these, but they always pass.” Acknowledging the mood and accepting it helped. I also started carrying a notebook (I write a lot anyway) and just vomit-writing any idea that came to me: scenes for short stories, passages of dialogue, just anything. For me, that helps shorten the bad time.
Baud
@Baud:
Two = too
WereBear
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): The real solution is to get a tRump impersonator. There’s got to be a fat balding obnoxious wrestler out there, needing work.
That, I hear, is the key to the Trumper’s hearts. They love fake stuff more than the real stuff, anyway.
p.a.
As usual, Fred Clark is helpful. Also includes a link to WW2 US Army workbook on how to sand the gears.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2024/11/09/do-not-obey-in-advance/
apocalipstick
@Halteclere:
It could be a good year for finance: they will be able to scoop up lots of cheap assets. Ot’s always a good time for vultures.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@Nukular Biskits: Dad was Westinghouse after USN, and did Polaris and Poseidon (and a couple Trident boats) before retiring. He was at once chuffed and enraged at THFRO for being semi-accurate.
He was a destroyer man in WW2, and his favorite ship was a Fletcher. Ergo, Greyhound. He would have loved it.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Phylllis:
It sounds more like a not-what-we’re-used-to-seeing-from-that-demographic-but-all-too-typical reaction to a black woman running rather than a move to the right?
I have a story to tell about a 77-year-old retired black lady who I jokingly call Denver’s only Black Woman Trump Voter.
When I moved back to Denver in 18, I laid my morning running route 2 loops around City Park, 6.5 miles a morning. I’d get up at 3:30am and go.
Imagine my surprise that I’d run into two elderly black ladies out walking around the park at the same time. One would always call out “Hello!” or “Good morning!” and unlike most of the white transplants here who a) wouldn’t be scared shitless to be out and about that time of night and b) never get their nose outta their phone or earbuds even in broad daylight, I’d reply back.
Over the course of a year, we’d stop and talk for 5 minutes before they resumed their walk and me my run and a friendship was formed between Miss Betty (age 83 at the time) and Miss Cynthia (age 73 at the time).
That changed in late 2019 for the first time in 30 years of running marathons and mostly ultramarathons, I got hurt to the point of not being able to run. Not wanting to stop doing anything, I started getting up at 2:30am and walking to meet them, then do a circuit of the park and golf course. Because they met at Miss Betty’s house at 3am.
Hysterical image: a tall skinny white boy (Miss Cynthia’s description of me, I’m not that tall 5’10” but am skinny and white) and two old black ladies walking around the city core before the buttcrack of dawn.
That continued at the start of Covid and into 2021. By that point, based on *topical* discussions, I grew to think Miss Cynthia was an outlier voter in that demographic. This was confirmed one morning when it was just me and Miss Betty walking when she confirmed what I suspected. She indicated her daughter (my age, retired pediatrician in Chicago) always asked her Mom how she could associate with that women. We see that question asked more generically here all the time.
Well, one thing is that we didn’t let politics enter into the discussion. Topics were discussed and differences of opinion provided but we didn’t talk candidates. Plus, you’ll never find a more kind-hearted, generous (to anybody) person than Miss Cynthia.
I’ve seen this first hand again recently as, sad to say, at 87, Miss Betty’s suffered a year-long slide into dementia and now resides in a memory care unit here in Denver. Me and Miss Cynthia visit her and to see Cynthia around the people in the memory care unit, so giving, so attentive, just so damn kind, you forget her politics.
She’s come up from nothing, was an earlier black pioneer in terms of where she moved to (Northeast Park Hill, to hear her describe Denver prior to the Civil Rights Act passage and where “we black folk were allowed to live” is chilling). I’ve never been able to puzzle out how she ended up where she is politically. There’s not a hateful bone in her body (unlike mine).
Whew.
Anne Laurie
His loving family will want to dump him in an untended corner of one of his golf courses, the way he treated Ivana. The MAGAts will insist he should be given full state honors & a memorial at Arlington National Ceremony, one even larger & ‘classier’ than JFK’s eternal flame. Half the Permanent GOP will be working on their ‘Trimp? Stump? We remember no Trump in *our* fine party!’ alibis, while the other half battles over which red-state government gets to build the Official State Catafalque (branded memorial hankies to sob into, also pay toilets).
There will be SO MANY fund-raising grifts — everyone from JD Vance to Steve Bannon to the lowliest GriftGimmeGone (or whatever that ‘Christian’ fundraising app is called). Also people selling pieces of the
TrueTrump Cross… strands from his toupee, swatches from his body bag… probably tiny vials of ‘guaranteed Trump DNA!!!’ (Maybe that’s just Jared, if he doesn’t change his name & facial features even before the EMTs cart off the body.)I would make popcorn, except that Trump’s sire survived for many years of pathetic senility. And the Trump administration will have him taxidermied doing his famous thumbs-up, so they can wheel the carcass from venue to venue.
Bill Arnold
@Halteclere:
Reagan won the 1984 election with 525 electoral votes and >58 percent of the popular vote.
Morning in America was the Reagan 1984 campaign slogan.
Some key economic numbers for Morning in America:
Unemployment 6.5 percent (Oct 1984)
Year over year inflation rate 3.90%, Dec 1984 (similar around Oct 1984)
Federal funds rate 8.24 percent, Dec 1984 (similar around Oct 1984)(same link)
The corresponding economic numbers at election time 2024 are all much better than the fall 1984 numbers (relatively, (imperfect) Utopia in America). Yet Republicans managed to successfully win the 2024 election on Economic Hell In America.
prostratedragon
@Phylllis: “But I could not relate to her.” I am not about to relate what I, a poor missionary under the best circumstances, would be too likely to say to someone handing me that arid nonsense.
jonas
@Butch: This is my question, as well. Trump is not well. The last couple of weeks of the campaign saw him sundowning bad. There already has to be a power struggle brewing in MAGA circles for how things will shake out when the orange fucker finally does kick it. And it will be sooner rather than later.
WereBear
@Halteclere: You are starting to understand the “Mind” of a Wingnut. That was dead-on.
apocalipstick
@Butch:
I think there is truth to this. I was raised evangelical and went to a small evangelical liberal arts college. Many of my former classmates are truly convinced that tRump is a n instrument of God. I don’t they will ever feel that way about Vance.
Nukular Biskits
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq):
My problem (and, yes, it’s my problem) is having SME in an area makes it hard for me to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the show.
If only I could go back to my ignorant days …
New Deal democrat
@Layer8Problem: strike 2.
SFAW
It has probably been discussed here, but I’m trying to figure out how to get started on (for example) fixing the media “infrastructure” which glorified/glorifies the Fascist-in-Chief. I don’t have the funds to start up a counterbalance to Xitter. Zuckerberg had a chance with Threads, maybe, but I would expect he’ll fall in line with the other suckups. Bezos has shown where his sentiments lie, so he’s out.
But let’s assume I’m in fantasy land regarding that whole “thought” above; where should I concentrate my efforts (vis-a-vis restoring the American ideal)? [I mean, other than hoping for the giant meteor as I mentioned above.]
Asking for the part of the country that doesn’t hate The Other.
ETA: Being an old, I forgot about BlueSky and similar.
Phylllis
@p.a.: My husband and I were having this conversation the other day. Most of my working career has been in state government-social services, then education. What I saw, over and over, is that governors, state agency directors, local agency directors, and superintendents come in with their mandates and directives, and sooner or later, they’re gone. The workers? They’re still in place, doing essentially what they’ve always done.
jonas
@Bill Arnold: Right, but compared to things in 1980, it seemed a whole lot better. Inflation then was running something like 14%; unemployment was 8%; the price of gas, adjusting for inflation, was over $4/gallon.
Rileys Enabler
Like a few others above, I’ve also dropped all news – like ALL traditional news media. Deleted every NYT game, dropped them all from my BlueSky feed. I deleted Shitter a year ago due to the strident enazification. My partner and I have discussed the plan for now: limit all media to a once a day check in. Twice for BJ. No more doomscrolling. Focus on things that bring joy- for me, that’s books and baking and working in the garden. We’ve discussed travel- we both love it but frankly are embarrassed to be traveling as Americans. So we are thinking carefully about that. Self care. Care for our tribe. All this is helping to out one foot in front of the other.
What I cannot figure out is how to move forward without my sister. I know how she voted, and even though we’ve been very very close until now- and share in taking care of our addled mother- all I can think of is that she voted for the Nazis.
maybe the answer will come in time. Peace to you all. And thanks again to JC for creating this place for us to huddle.
Omnes Omnibus
Reminder: All the votes have yet to be counted. We can’t really come to any conclusions about why this happened until we know what happened. Until that point, it’s all hot takes.
New Deal democrat
@Soprano2:
I once read a book called “How the Irish Became White.”
Yes, it’s true. In the 1840s and for some time thereafter, Irish immigrants were not considered “White.” And the list goes on.
WereBear
@New Deal democrat: I disagree. He apparently has incredible Billionaire Kiss Ass powers, but he is a mean little shit out for revenge on the people who didn’t like him and were probably right.
A man who threw his own grandma under the bus…
And the way he treats his wife reminds me — powerfully — of the closeted gay married men back in church. I didn’t have gaydar back then, but now I can look back and put together all the puzzling bits. Plus, gossip from back home, and being friends with LBTQ+ people from hanging with the art crowd in jr high and high school.
And my college job answer a switchboard, which included AA hotlines. These people are doomed and miserable. I think it’s part of Vance’s effect on me: he repulses me in a way I haven’t felt since Martha Stewart stared at me from the television.
jonas
He may be, just not in the way they’re thinking. The Antichrist and the Beast are both instruments of God, in the sense that they are “permitted” to spread death and destruction on earth as a way of preparing it for the Final Judgment.
prostratedragon
Some good alternative reading from The Columbia Spectator: “Six Thousand Pipe Dreams: The Organ in St. Paul’s Chapel”
TBone
It is time for good (real) hot cocoa and raisin spice oatmeal. The damp north wind is blowing in again today, finally bringing the cold November rain I was born in.
🎶 Not guns or roses
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge3s3QvRqco
Omnes Omnibus
@New Deal democrat: Come on, you have been coming here long enough that you should be aware that disagreements can be expressed rather forcefully here.
lowtechcyclist
@ewrunning:
Maybe not elsewhere, but rest assured that there’s been a metric ton of talk about it on this blog.
For instance, New Deal Democrat @19:
frosty
Seems to me that EVERYONE is talking about that, and doing it before all the votes are counted. Harris is up a million votes from the last time I looked. Maybe we should wait awhile before wringing our hands?
Suzanne
I still think the core issue is that People R Dum and only absorb info that they want to hear. I agree that our media environment sucks, but it is the second- or third-order problem. It’s not like people are right-wing because Fox News exists or because of the New York Times editorial page. For News exists because people are tribal and not very smart. I doubt that 30% of Trump’s voters have ever read anything printed in the New York Times ever.
I don’t know how to fix this issue.
RevRick
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I believe it’s that they (the Biden non voters) didn’t think that the stakes were that high. They remember the chaos, but aside from COVID, it wasn’t that bad. And since Trump is a huge bullshitter, they don’t believe he’ll do what he says he’ll do. They cannot wrap their heads around the possibility that he will indeed do all the horrible things that he has said he’ll do.
Even a lot of Trump voters think it was just “rhetoric.”
They’re all about to get a rude awakening.
We need to prepare our minds and hearts for the awfulness to come, to brace ourselves for the blast of ethnic cleansing and misogyny that will be unleashed.
As for Trump not completing his term, he seemed quite coherent in his victory speech.
WereBear
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: They will have to drain a swamp?
He should be buried on the golf course, next to his first wife, as a good Christian.
Oh wait! Somehow, these Christian Nationalist who won’t give women the right to divorce still claim that right for themselves.
Geminid
@New Deal democrat: I have a hypothesis regarding the variance between the voting behavior of Boomers and voters born in the 60s and 70s.
Boomers benefited from the post-WWII economic expansion. They grew up at a time when the middle class was prospering, and they entered the workforce while the post-war boom still made it easier to move up economically.
They were relatively secure economically and were able to accumulate wealth like their parents had. And later on, more of them could benefit from intergenerational wealth transfers.
A person’s’s first ten years in the work force can often determine their lifelong economic status, and it can influence their political outlook as well. An expanding economy makes it easier to have liberal attitudes towards the economically underpriviledged, because the economy does not look so much like a zero-sum game.
The experiences of people born in the 1960s and 70s was very different. Their attitudes were formed by a relatively stagnant economy that in many respects really was a zero-sum game. This could at least partially explain this generation’s political conservatism.
And there may have been a reaction to the relative liberalism of the preceding age cohort. That could also stem from economic experience. Even if they could get good job, it was harder for those born in the 60s and 70s to move up because of all the Boomers who’d already claimed the middle and upper positions in the organized economy, and held on to them into this century.
The liberal Boomers were in the way, and the resentment younger people had on this score mave have attached to Boomer politics.
When I think about this, I am not at all surprised at the resentment succeeding generations have towards Boomers. I’m just glad I don’t seem to be a target. To the contrary, I often hear younger people call me an “Ok Boomer.” At least, I think that’s what they’re saying!
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Takes taste better hot.
lowtechcyclist
@TBone:
As Dylan said, if you’re not busy being born, you’re busy dying.
apocalipstick
@NotMax:
Good lord! Artisanal small-bakery bread here (southern MO) is only $6 perloaf.
prostratedragon
@Suzanne: Thinking back, I recall that my junior high civics teacher had no idea either.
narya
@Omnes Omnibus: @Baud: If I can be serious for a (hot) minute, I’ve really appreciated the comments both of you have been adding to the conversation here.
Nukular Biskits
@Geminid:
I can’t vouch for the accuracy of this but someone posted a chart showing the estimate blood lead levels in those who would now be in their 40s-50s.
I gotta say that really made me wonder how much of outright ignorance that fueled support for Trump was, in some small way, due to that.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@lowtechcyclist:
“I woke up this morning and had myself a beer. The future’s uncertain and the end is always near.”
Did exactly that Wed morning, drank beer and ate Krispy Kreme donuts that a friend had brought.
Now, if that were the best way to get thru the next four years…
JMG
@Bill Arnold: I’ve seen these stats and I think they do not reflect how things actually happened. In 1982, unemployment was 10 percent. The Paul Volcker Fed recession did wring inflation out of the economy and people were happy about that. The economy was starting to recover. Reagan sold the trend, not the conditions. People blamed Carter for the inflation and subsequent high interest rates.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: If you run too far with the theory that people are dumb and it can’t be fixed, you end up as an authoritarian.
New Deal democrat
@Geminid: I agree.
The only thing I would add, and really it’s just a different way of saying the same thing, is that 1950s Boomers embraced Camelot and the Great Society, and were repelled by Darth Vad … I mean, Richard Nixon.
By contrast, those born in the 1960s and early 1970s grew up with the stagflation and ineffectiveness of Carter and then Reagan’s “Morning in America.”
Rose Judson
The only “advantage” I see in a potential elevation of Vance to the presidency is that he is woefully inexperienced in government. With him in charge, there’d be a percieved power vacuum and the infighting that would result would be distracting to the GOPers, creating exploitable moments.
Omnes Omnibus
@narya:
Way too early too be that drunk.
RandomMonster
They managed to cover up Reagan’s slide into brain mush. But then again, Reagan didn’t have a pathological need to put himself on stage every day. So we’ll see.
apocalipstick
@Phylllis:
I do not understand the ‘identify’ issue. I’m voting for a leader, not trying to be best buds. I wasn’t friends with our former school superintendent, but I recognized that he was a good man and fine leader. Why should I have to ‘identify’ with him?
Omnes Omnibus
@RandomMonster: Reagan was also an actor who retained his ability to stay on script.
Dorothy A. Winsor
This afternoon, we’re having our monthly meeting of our secret cabal of Democrats. These folks are also some of my best buddies here, but at this meeting we usually talk politics. Today, I don’t want to. I’m still in the “the voters chose this so go to it” phase.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@RandomMonster:
He also had a *very* protective spouse working hard to cover for his mental decline.
Felonious D has the Slovenian Manikin who’s probably waiting for the days he’s either dead or gibbering in a home. She won’t raise a manicured finger to stop any public display of his mental decline.
jonas
@New Deal democrat: It’s true. For much of the 19th and early 20th century, “white” meant WASP. That did not include Irish Catholics, the Italians, and especially not Greeks, Turks, Portuguese, or Eastern European Jews.
Phylllis
@New Deal democrat: Nell Irvin Painter’s ‘The History of White People’ is a great read on this subject.
Her book ‘Old in Art School’ is also worth a read.
TBone
@lowtechcyclist: 💜
TBone
@apocalipstick: Hawaii is different – everything has to travel to get there.
Many Islanders grow their own produce because of expense.
Starfish
@oldgold: I love this so much. Thank you.
Build Me Up Buttercup
Nukular Biskits
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, depends on how far you take that but it doesn’t answer the question as to how you deal with people whose ignorance* makes it impossible to reason with or even come to any measure of compromise.
*As I have said numerous times here and elsewhere, there are two kinds of ignorance.
The first is merely “lack of knowledge”; i.e., the person simply does not possess the information and/or the ability to process that information. This can usually be remedied by education.
The second, however, is what I call “belligerent ignorance”, a state where the person outright refuses to entertain even the remote possibility that their beliefs may be wrong, even in the face of contradictory evidence. These are the folks you’re never going to reach.
Bupalos
@Xantar: you clearly know the answer but thank you for voicing that, I’m sure you’re not the only one feeling that way. It’s not just OK to take a break, it’s absolutely THE thing to do.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
I was looking at the ME-2 House race. Jared Golden is ~12000 votes ahead but under 50 percent and because of ranked voting they’re going to have to do the ranked voting calculations. Also the GOP candidate is asking for a recount. Meanwhile TFG won ME-2 by a small margin but outright. I don’t remember the exact number but I believe they said 11000 people didn’t vote in the ME-2 race. My guess is the vast majority of those are TFG cult members. They went in voter for TFG and turned in their ballot. This might partially explain the higher votes for the Dem US Senate and US House candidates getting more votes than Harris.
Ohio Mom
@Xantar: Are you on medicine, if so, is it the right type and/or dose?
You don’t have to answer me, it’s none of my business. I’m just trying to point out that antidepressants work and can be very helpful. You deserve to feel your best.
It’s not a matter of not being sad about Trump winning, it’s about maintaining the ability to function while being sad. It’s about strengthening your resiliency.
Good luck, I’m pulling for you.
MagdaInBlack
@TBone: 🌻❤️🌻
WereBear
@narya: Everyone provides the comfort they like best. DO IT.
If only for you, but then again, you are worth it.
Tony G
@Baud: Yes. A lot of that from the “Splinter” posts that keep showing up on my Facebook feed. There was even a sermon on that theme a few days ago from His Holiness Saint Bernie Sanders. (Has there ever been a more overrated political celebrity than Saint Sanders?)
Barbara
@Nukular Biskits: I will make suitable adjustments but I honestly think that it would be better to take steps out of enlightened self-interest, to shore up your own well-being rather than focus on hurting others, whoever they are.
I’m not up for extended discussions yet but I am not joining your campaign. It’s reactive and angry without likely impact. The wrong use of energy.
Tony G
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Yes. Melania has been eagerly awaiting Donald’s death since the day they got married.
Jinchi
It’s kind of mixed. The price of eggs seems lower than any I’ve seen, the rest of the groceries seem about right, rental prices depend entirely on where you’re living, so $1532 for a one-bedroom seems both low and overly precise.
I think his idea is good, but if you want to convince non-likeminded people in the future, you’ll need date-stamped, photographic proof, or even better, one of those fliers with prices that you get in the mail from your local grocery store.
Your R-curious relatives will remember the highest price of gas during the Biden administration, not the lowest, just like they forgot about the pandemic shortages that we experienced during the last 1.5 years of the first Trump administration or the fact that unemployment rate was over 7% four years ago.
Jinchi
@Tony G: She’ll get along great with JD.
Ohio Mom
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride: Happy Birthday! Even if it’s not the Birhday you imagined, it’s still a holiday.
Phylllis
@apocalipstick: I agree. My next question to her would have been ‘So what is it about Trump you identify with?’. I imagine she’d have homina homina’d a bit before spitting some nonsense out.
Barbara
@Xantar: It’s okay to wait. People step in and out of the fight all the time. There will be many fights ahead, rest assured.
JMG
Saturday is my son’s 40th birthday, and he and his wife and toddler son are coming to Boston to have his party. My daughter is flying home from France for this event and will be at our house for a week. That will be my focus in this period, not politics. I will still be here on BJ, because this group is so much more than just politics, but I’m giving the news a pass except for sports until probably after Thanksgiving. It seems like the backstabbing that characterized Trump 1.0 is already happening before 2.0 even starts. I think we should give that some time to percolate. IMO non-political people HATE politics interrupting the holiday season. It’s one reason the Clinton impeachment was such a bust.
brendancalling
I don’t know if I’m going to mass mobilize as Warren suggests when I expect live rounds to be turned on Americans.
My gal and I are totally depressed. We want to get out but don’t know if we can.
I feel like even if we claw back even a little, it’s the equivalent of sucking the marrow out of horse bones. And the song “$1000 Car” keeps playing in my head. “Replace your gaskets paint over your rust/you’ll still end up with something you can never trust…”
Sorry to be the turd in the punch bowl.
Nukular Biskits
@Barbara:
Understood and we all need to focus on self first. Got it.
As for it being a campaign, there are no hard plans on my part, just thinking about the logistics of how such a thing could get off the ground.
As for me personally, hell yes, if I know that Joe of Joe’s Delicious Coffee Shak (for example) is a Trump supporter, I’ll be getting my cafe mochas from somewhere else henceforth, after letting him know the reason why.
Dr. Regina Phalange
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq):
@NotMax: These prices are very low to me, especially as averages. I know the apartment, bread, and eggs are higher. I would love to know how they calculated these averages.
Bupalos
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I think we should exercise a little caution with “the voters chose this.” There are senses in which this is true (yes, they chose Trump to be president, and in PA and Ohio chose Republican senators etc. They did not necessarily choose the particular policies that their faction will try to make flow from that eg. project 25 shit. They are of course going to say voting for Trump encompasses any and every given policy. And we probably shouldn’t give that any more fuel.
Lyrebird
@Nukular Biskits: I don’t know but I’m interested. I already avoid any known Koch brands, I confess I can’t leave Amazon currently… Heard that Jockey and ULine have RWNJ leadership (not positive about Jockey), trying not to send money their way.
If you find some way to move forward with your ideas, I will want to hear about it.
TF79
Income number is weird – presumably it’s something like individual median income? Seems like household median income (which is somewhere around $80k) would be a better benchmark.
jonas
@Suzanne: The fragmentation of the media landscape over the past decade or so has meant that people are easily able to find news outlets and information that simply confirm their biases. I’m skeptical that another more left-of-center news networks, podcasts, or social media sites will make any difference. They will just attract more liberal listeners and the people we need to reach will continue listening to Goebbels in the AM.
KatKapCC
Except we already did this. The “darkness of defeat” was 2016. Then we thought we had fought and persisted and made our steps toward progress by electing Biden and Harris in 2020. And now we’re right back where we started…except not even that, because we are worse than when we started. This statement is pretending as though the past 8 years didn’t happen. And as much as I appreciate Dems speaking up and telling us what they’re going to do to try to stem the tide of torment, this kind of rah-rah we-got-this pablum doesn’t hold much water since it has to be based on a premise filled with holes.
I’m not meaning to be a doomer, but I think what we really need is to be as painfully realistic about this situation as possible. Because as a whole, the Democrats’ tendency toward a sunny hopeful outlook hasn’t really been working all that well for us.
RandomMonster
Good points!
New Deal democrat
@Phylllis: Thanks.
I really need to find some new diversions, and not spend so much time as I recently have, ahem, here. Not only have I already pulled the plug on all news sites and most political blogs, but my big diversion during Trump 1, true crime, is useless now because I’ve seen about 98% of the episodes so I know immediately who the murderer is.
Elizabelle
@Rileys Enabler: Good for you. Positive steps.
And I am so sorry for your sister’s vote. That would be hard.
ArchTeryx
On the one hand, I’m not just a little nervous about what’s coming. I’m fucking terrified. Fighting the last war brings me no comfort, so I stayed out of the circular firing squads. Protecting my people is what I worry about and I’m have virtually no power to do it. They’re scattered to the four winds.
But I am still trying to learn some 3D modeling and design, and gathering my friends online on a secure platform. I don’t know what else to do any more, except minor distractions and trying to move pieces around a board that just got overturned.
Not feeling well at all. I’m not even sure what I can possibly do right. I don’t want to retreat, but the country isn’t want I want to fight for any more. The survival of my family is all I care about now.
More so than even me.
Make fun of me for being overdramatic, but that is where the Least Important Jackal stands now.
Nukular Biskits
@Lyrebird:
Will do.
Just trying to see if there’s enough interest. I’ve put the idea out on my Bluesky account as well.
Hell, I’m considering posting it on the Shitty-Site-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named as, if anything, it’ll piss some Trump trolls off bigly.
MagdaInBlack
I listened to Norm Ornstein on Al Franken’s YouTube channel. It did not make my day. I have to stop doing that.
apocalipstick
@jonas:
That would… not be the negative you would think for a lot of these folk.
suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know.
But just because I don’t know how to fix it doesn’t mean that it can’t be fixed. Suggestions welcome.
I just don’t want us to confuse causes and effects.
frosty
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you! I’ve mentioned the vote count in the comments a couple of times but 13 million seems to be baked into the narrative already. We’ll see how it turns out.
Starfish
@Nukular Biskits: I am seeing people who refused to quit twitter starting to quit Twitter.
I can do things like not buy a Tesla ever, but is that meaningful when car purchases are so infrequent?
What type of boycotts are you considering? Are you boycotting local businesses or big national ones?
Barbara
@brendancalling: Very depressed here as well. I know there might be an inevitability about the outcome in retrospect, whether Biden or Harris, but for my money misogyny explains a lot, and distrust in the nomination process explains at least some amount of disengagement.
Apparently not everyone is sufficiently afraid of chaos and slashing benefits without it punching them directly in the face. Well, if they get punched I’m not going to be all that upset and if they don’t then I was worried for nothing. Look out for yourself.
dww44
@New Deal democrat: Well I kinda disagree. As a fellow canvasser said a couple days before the election, Vance is pure evil and smart enough to not telegraph it. He’s a bought and paid for tool. I hope Trump makes it. His ego and narcissism will keep us clued in about his intentions.
apocalipstick
@TBone: Ah.
Miki
@narya: Yes! Please do!
MCat
@Xantar: I feel the same way. I came down with a bad cold starting Wednesday. I feel like my whole being is grieving. We are exhausted on so many levels. But I know that my Irish ☘️ stubbornness will bring me back into the fight soon. Take all the time you need. I send you a hug and a lovely cup of tea.
WereBear
This was more than low turnout. Apparently they are “change” voters who didn’t like Trump, but also… didn’t understand politics.
Which is never one and done.
I can only hope for a mountain sized amount of shock and awe.
Also, vague fears. The average person is as deeply superstitious as the average medieval peasant. They hope for the best and throw salt over their shoulder at the wedding dinner to the guy she knows is a jerk but he asked, and look at the great party I threw!
After she goes in the bathroom and the attendants try to fix her makeup and hair after her new husband smashed cake in her face, on purpose.
I saw all these people making bad decisions because of vague fears like “not being married” or “I have to get away from my parents” or “I have to listen to my parents” when they were supposed to be adults, but were not allowed to.
They have to leave their culture to fix it. So they won’t, and maybe even can’t. I’ve used a woman-centered example, but upthread another angle is all the people forced into a “romantic” relationship that has to be a shame.
Now a whole family is suffering! Just to give a psychopath the same dopamine jolt people get from winning at Candy Crush.
Twasn’t Beauty who killed the beasts of medieval times, church and demons. We KNOW that is where Alito’s head is really at.
No, what killed the “church” in everyone’s lives around the globe was science. We’re talking repeatable results, not “pie in the sky when we die.”
Like, how many Democrats without Wingnut Knowledge realize they didn’t worry about demon possession today, but that Wingnut coworker might have seen a license place with two sixes and two threes and that’s the Beast.
We don’t inhabit the same world. I don’t see how that would work.
Bupalos
@Jinchi: This project itself would be like documenting the low level of Islamic terrorism in 2015. The issue of prices will very likely just disappear, and the next election have completely different themes.
Our political problem as Democrats lies largely outside these measures of reality. We have to figure out how to effectively message in this new information environment, and how to combat post-truth politicians.
Soprano2
@Geminid: I’m considered to be a Boomer by most generational charts (b. 1961) but don’t feel like one. I feel like everything has been about the people born between 1945-1955 my whole life, and yes it breeds resentment.
Elizabelle
@narya: Also a vote for the food blog. Yes please! You seem to put together some very creative meals.
Omnes Omnibus
@frosty: To a certain extent, I thing we are fighting an uphill battle. People want to figure out how it happened and are using the only data currently available. Hopefully, it doesn’t get baked in.
songbird
I found these two pieces helpful. 1. wagingnonviolence (LINK) and 2. findingsteadyground (LINK). They seemed concrete and purposeful.
p.a.
@Phylllis: One of the first things I was told as an employee at my publicly regulated utility was, if at all possible wait out a bad boss; they’ll be moving on soon enough. Bidding out could get you in worse conditions.
In one job category, 12+ years, 2 different locations, I worked for the same guy 3 different times. He started his 1st day introduction the same way: “I’m here because you guys are the worst fucking crew in New England and I’m here to get that fixed.” I was the only constant between his three stints. 🤔
Nukular Biskits
@Starfish:
Good point, and I’m not sure I have a good answer for that. I don’t expect this to have an impact on the Musks (fuck that guy), Bezoses (him too), etc. The world could go up and flames and they’d have the resources to just up and move somewhere else, abandoning the rest of us.
For me personally, everything is on the table, both local and national.
The devil’s in the details, though, and some decisions will require holding my nose. For example, Ms. Biskits absolutely LOVES Amazon. I don’t see us being able to curtail our patronage of that, even if it did have a significant impact on the political behavior of Bezos.
I’m just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks, what is possible/doable.
WereBear
@rikyrah: Learning from the best. Coping is a great skill.
prn
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq):
And that’s for cheapo not good for you bunny bread. Whole grain, more like $5-6 a loaf
I’m diabetic. Can’t eat rice, pasta or potatoes. The stuff I can eat tends to be expensive. The stuff I like to eat, fuggitaboutit.
My closest grocery store was selling iceberg lettuce for $2. (It’s owned by Kroger, natch) I paid almost $4 for a cabbage, a bloody cabbage, ffs
Jinchi
That’s why a faux-handwritten list on the internet is not going to be convincing to anyone who doesn’t already believe it.We’re all in different areas with different markets. I live in a pricey California market, but I can easily buy bread for $5, not the $9 that NotMax mentioned. I can get fresh baked loaves at the local french bakery for that price.
I will say that it’s pretty easy to do a quick localized look up online for most grocery store chains, and average regional gas prices are also accessible.
https://gasprices.aaa.com/?state=TX
https://www.shaws.com/
https://www.safeway.com
TBone
@oldgold: 🏆
Ohio Mom
@Soprano2: Then there are we Jews, who are conditionally white. Most of us understand that on some level, some of us don’t.
Layer8Problem
@brendancalling: I’d expect live rounds might provoke an extreme popular reaction rather than a cowed “Sorry, sir.”
kalakal
@New Deal democrat:
This bit really get’s me, that’s my age group (1960). Anecdata I know but everyone in that group I knew detested Thatcher & Reagan and would never dream of voting for Trump
Starfish
@Suzanne: Yeah, I have been trying to fix the “people are real dumb” issue for most of my life, and it never works out for me.
TBone
@Nukular Biskits: I believe that may be where/why shunning originated.
WereBear
@Phylllis: A defensive delusion.
Trump has instilled fear all this time. It comes out in ways people are afraid to look at, so they never figure out what it is.
And if I gather Pope is also Black, that’s layers of Stockholming. Which I don’t exactly blame any Black citizen for. That’s their American experience.
Here’s how I think it went as an internal monologue built on feelings:
I am so frightened of Trump. But look at the turnout! They don’t need me.
looping with
What if he wins? I’ll be on the enemies list.
For a normie, that would be, you know, “normal.” Normies who voted on the basis of throwing out whoever was in charge during the Pandemic, regardless of how WELL they did or didn’t, use voting like slaps.
They think in punishment, not instruction.
frosty
@Bupalos: PA hasn’t chosen a Republican senator yet. Casey hasn’t conceded and there are still more ballots to count. All of you can help here, if you’ve got any gas left in the tank.
https://www.mobilize.us/2024pavictory/event/742453/?emci=fcdf8aa6-52ec-ee11-aaf0-002248223794&emdi=c7d50484-c29e-ef11-88ce-000d3a98fa6b&ceid=30365754
Bupalos
Fossil fuels. I’d even buy a Tesla if I had to (fortunately there are much better options.)
I hope people here will reconsider the received wisdom that individual action on climate is pointless. It’s not. Beyond the actual carbon impact, decarbonizing your life helps build the human and political infrastructure for mass change. We aren’t going to implement meaningful change on the collective national level until enough people have modified their lifestyle to where it’s a more “normal” thing.
Ohio Mom
@Omnes Omnibus: When Omnes finds no reason to counsel defering judgement, RUN FOR COVER!
I happen to agree with Omnes here.
Nukular Biskits
@TBone:
I know I sound like a broken record and am probably being irrational (“Probably?”, everyone sarcastically asks) but a significant number of my fellow Americans are, quite frankly, assholes, idiots or some combination.
As I’ve said before, there are plenty of other factors to look at (Biden waiting, Harris saying she wouldn’t change much, etc) but the bottom line is a LOT of people voted for Trump KNOWING what/who he was. And I have absolutely no patience for evangelicals who supported him as they’re liars WRT to their “sincerely-held religious convictions”.
I am not looking to make nice anytime soon.
TBone
@Jinchi: 😆
Kathleen
@Elizabelle: Me three. I’ve sworn off all “news” on broadcast/cable and hot takes on print/online
ETA: Any blame on Dems/Harris here or Xeet are scrolled over. I wrote response to Jennifer Rubin today on my explanation for what happened and I stand by that.
WereBear
I’m not a professional, nor a Trump Voter Whisperer, but I had a lot of lived experience as a bright woman in the south. To me, it was obvious. If I stayed, I could pick one.
Spent my entire adult life in New York as a consequence. Came up on a bus with two suitcases and $30 leftover from my food and Greyhound ride. There hasn’t been a day since November 2015 that I am not deeply grateful I made my own big decisions about my life.
Because if I hadn’t, and even if I had gotten that dreamed of academic career, back in the red state, the dating prospects were also not to my liking. I would never be “from there.”
It’s like voting D. They have to look out for the kinfolk first.
And while some may admire the strength of these ties, they really are the ties that bind. Half the boys I knew in high school were desperate to live anything but their father’s lives… yet never could make the decisions not to. I had a hunch they would take it out on their wives.
We’ve seen the Trump fans. I’ve seen how they got that way. And yes, that was the part that least surprised me. I knew the woods were full of deeply delusional people, which makes them stupid.
I just didn’t know they ever voted. I thought it meant they had come to their senses. Maybe so, but only for a fit of pique.
ewrunning
@frosty: Okay, I should have said “present company excepted.” When I said nobody I meant the professional political comentariat who immediately started prattling about a smashing victory/mandate and looking for the new micro-demographic group voter shift to attribute it to. None of them are talking (yet) about who didn’t vote at all. No diner safaris to find the elusive non-voter either.
As for my media diet, I’m cold turkey on broadcast (tv and radio) in part because of the effect the once and future leader’s voice has on family members, but I find that I’m feeling less bad without the exposure also. I still glance at my local paper (Seattle Times) which did endorse Kamala, mainly for local coverage. I’m choosing to get the bulk of my info from written online sources that I trust to give me facts and non-stupid analysis of what both “sides” are up to without descending into bothsiderist nonsense,
TBone
I am a natural born fighter, a come up swinging every time type but, without hope and sunshine, there would be no fight in me and I would not even have been conceived. I am the hope of my ancestors.
MCat
@ewrunning: I totally agree.
WereBear
@New Deal democrat: He will not be capable of a one minute “hey there.” Screaming rage filled obscenities and we already know his veins are made of processed food.
Probably have to have male nurses.
Or the women get cattle prods.
Phylllis
@p.a.: My three stock phrases at work were ‘I’ll get right on that’, which translated to I’ll see you in hell before I actually get to work on it; ‘Got it right here’, which was a generic folder with random papers sticking out kept on the top of the work stack if the person ever remembered to follow up on it; and ‘let me know how that works out for you’, whenever a co-worker would suggest some outlandish nonsense they were sure the boss would find to be a genius idea.
Bupalos
@Nukular Biskits: I really think that kind of “I don’t buy from people with different political alignments” message is very counter productive.
You can do the same thing though by for instance asking about their measures to combat climate change or to support the community. Just let them know you really like what x coffee shop is doing, that it makes you feel good about your patronage there.
Starfish
@Nukular Biskits: We were able to curb our Amazon purchases a lot, but that is because we live in a place with real bookstores and shopping options within a drivable distance of where we live. If you live in a land of no bookstores and limited shopping options, that can be hard.
Nukular Biskits
@Kathleen:
I’ve switched to local, independent journalism.
I follow Mississippi Free Press and MS Today, both non-corp-owned.
TBone
@Phylllis: damn it feels good to be a gangsta!😎🤘
kindness
Those of us in blue states will have a little luxury in not feeling the bite of the coming Administration. Trump (& his minions) seeth at anyone who reject their yoke, and will do everything they can to hurt blue states like mine (California). The auto emissions standard California has enjoyed will be gone. They’ll hit us economically as much as they can. Living here will still be a little nicer than in much of red America. We’ll see. I’m wondering about ICE’s coming round-ups. Texas Gov. Abbott has already said he doesn’t want Texas Ag workers touched. It wouldn’t surprise me if the ICE leadership instead targets blue states. If they did, the joke would be on the ranchers and farmers here who all wholly supported Trump.
I’m starting to sleep a little better. Guess I’ve come to terms with the never ending gut punch that is to come.
WereBear
@Chris: Always Beware the Vague.
The vague fears, the vague person, the terrible instructions, the senseless orders.
Because the problem with vague is that is… not quite there. While a HUNCH, that’s something that is a path to follow, data can be discovered, theories made and tested. That’s how an adult can use their hunches, in all kinds of fields.
But vague is the beige of feelings. And good for nothing.
trollhattan
@p.a.: Literally the plot for Slow Horses. What’s working for Gary Oldman like?
Nukular Biskits
@Bupalos:
I agree … and disagree.
I’m all for sending a positive message and patronizing those whose beliefs/ideals align, even if imperfectly, with my own.
But I do think it important to ensure that those who will no longer get my business know why. I’m not saying that folks should walk into the aforementioned hypothetical Joe’s Coffee House, demand to speak to the owner, and tell him in front of other customers he’s a piece of shit for supporting Trump (although part of me does like the sound of that).
IOW, simply moving your business somewhere else without letting the proprietors know WHY doesn’t gain anything, IMHO.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@Geminid: a lot of Gen Xrs walked into the crappy job market post ’87 crash. The Gen Xrs then went into jobs where pensions were 401Ks so not only didn’t you have a defined pension but there’s a decent chance you lost a good chunk of your 401K in the -07 crash. Cherry on top was if you lost your house in the ’08-’10 period. All this while college costs for their kids are exploding.
TBone
@WereBear:
L.O.L. !!! 😍
ETA I’m still laughing!
Nukular Biskits
@Starfish:
Here on the MS Gulf Coast, it isn’t as bad as what folks the great wastelands north of I-10 experience.
Soprano2
@Nukular Biskits: It’s true that no one can truthfully say they didn’t know what they were getting this time. If they don’t it’s because they actively avoided finding out.
Kathleen
@Elizabelle: Indeed. I’ve been practicing “living in the moment” (gulp) and it’s a challenge for me but it’s the only way I’ll get through this latest national and personal challenges.
Baud
There’s been some talke of the union vote, but /r/IBEW has been a real bright spot for workers who don’t see themselves as natural serfs.
WereBear
This Pandora link is free (with commercials if one is not a subscriber) and this is what Sir Tristan and I are listening to all day today.
Because it is HIS channel, as we both enjoy Sade so much, and I thumbed up some, and he did, by rolling on the floor and chirping when he liked a song. (Tristan is a cat, but he came by the knighthood honorably and honestly.)
We find it just the right blend of relaxing AND danceable. Even when I’m exhausted, I can chair dance like no one is looking.
Tristan’s Pandora Station
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I am reading bitter recriminations about Biden in the Trumpedia (Trump media = MSM+RWNJ media + Horseshoe Left media)
He was pushed out by white people because he treated marginalized people as people not tokens or demons. Something even this space is not always successful at.
Yes I am looking at you Nancy Pelosi, Podsave Bros and George Clooney in addition to the usual suspects.
And that’s my short analysis of the situation. Will do a detailed analysis after we get the California numbers.
Starfish
@kindness: What I have seen in the past few days has been red state dems scoping out the nearest blue states. I would love to have them, but I also worry about their states after they leave. These are folks like school teachers who are looking at “Hey, this red state is going to try to destroy my job, and y’all definitely pay more over there.”
Phylllis
@trollhattan: I’d love Jackson Lamb as a boss, because he knows most of the ‘work’ is useless churn, but he’s all in when the real shit needs to get done.
Elizabelle
@Kathleen: It’s been soothing not following the news. Since there is so little we can do to change it.
Another new habit, from commenter Nutmeg Again: Boston’s WCRB classical radio station, streaming online. No NPR news.
Had a dreadful chest cold for a few days, which is just lifting. Slept for a day and a half; grateful for that too, in a strange way.
sentient ai from the future
i made a reddit post about ballot curing, with links and inspiration from here, on a tranSgender support subreddit i follow.
three people have signed up for shifts so far.
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO
Nukular Biskits
@Soprano2:
I tend to agree … but you are discounting power of ignorance.
TBone
@Nukular Biskits: me also neither!!! I’m getting a four foot tall, inflatable, orange, glow in the dark poop emoji wearing a Santa cap to counteract my neighbors’ red, white, and blue Christmas-lights flag & homage to White American Jeebus (NotMax thoughtfully provided a link last night).
Nukular Biskits
@WereBear:
One of the things I’ve started listening to is (and I’m not sure how I stumbled across it) is a live stream on Youtube:
Gentleman ‘ Deep ‘ Radio | Deep House • Chillout • Lounge Music 24/7
prostratedragon
Tony Todd
Judith Jamison
R.I.P.
Nukular Biskits
@TBone:
I saw the poop emoji Christmas decoration, thought it was funny … but didn’t connect it as being a way to express my anger with the election.
Now that you’ve pointed that out to me, I’d like to do that as I’m sure many of my neighbors are Trump fans … but there is absolutely no way in hell Ms Biskits is going to allow me to foul up her plans for yard decorations! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Mr. Mack
Probably too late to the thread….but those prices are off by a bit. But one I have some expertise in is the car market, and in particular, the used car market. I curb a fair share of light duty trucks. I don’t buy sedans but they are a great way to save money. A Honda or Toyota sedan with 100k in miles will give you years of trouble free gas efficient driving. I myself insist on a truck frame or least an SUV style frame and a six cylinder engine for distance driving. I like to sit up high so I can see what is developing down the fwy. With today’s speeds and number of large semi-trucks out there, it seems the safest option. For just running around town, nearly anything works for me, and I like small SUVs for that. But 15 thousand dollars will get you a fine used car, and I always look for a year that they did not use timing belts.
WereBear
@kindness: Blue states can stop sending Trump money for red states.
It’s what I would do. It’s what “Handsy” Cuomo wanted to do, and I was with him on that.
Moving is hell, and we just did it, as two chronically ill retired people. I had a burst of charting when doing the taxes, and when it confirmed the trendlines I dumped whole aspects of our business and pulled back on expenses, hard.
I went to all digital, and that might be the one form of interstate commerce the jerks can’t mess with. Their own voters live their LIVES on it…
Because now we have scientific proof they don’t have real ones.
TBone
@Nukular Biskits: hubby briefly expressed his opposition before he got a big, wet raspberry. I do the cooking here!
catclub
@rikyrah:
Trump’s health and stamina have been routinely underestimated. I thought he would not last through the campaign after the 2016 convention. I was wrong.
SFAW
RIP Judith Jamison.
One of the greats. A mainstay, and Artistic Director, of the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater. I was fortunate enough to crew for the Ailey company when they came to my high school in the 1970s. I frankly do not recall whether I met Ms. Jamison, but definitely knew who she was. [And working with the Ailey group was one of the most fun things I did in high school. And this is from a guy who’s not big into modern dance.]
Nukular Biskits
Coffee run (and, no, not to Joe’s Coffee House).
Y’all be sweet to each other. Yes, I’m looking at you, Baud!
TBone
@SFAW: wow!
WereBear
@schrodingers_cat: I agree with that take.
Maybe it wasn’t vague fears, but not wanting to look at who they really are.
Easily fixed! Just be kind. Sad they can’t.
catclub
Kind of like the kind of people who want to come to the US.
WereBear
@Starfish: May we drown in talent. Och, such a problem, no?
KatKapCC
@catclub: Some kind of even-more-fucked-up Dorian Gray situation.
SFAW
@Mr. Mack:
Not too late. Your views on cars (esp. driving a higher car, to be able to see what potential problems lie ahead) are very similar to my own.
TBone
@TBone: meant to add: I found it at many places other than Amazon. Fuck Bezos 🤡💩
WereBear
@Mr. Mack: Thanks, that’s good to know.
We’d just bought the smallest SUV we could find (mountains, snow) summer of 2019. Thanks to my industry collapsing fairly quickly, it’s hardly been driven all these years :)
gene108
The problem with Democrats is they try to keep the worst from happening, when Republicans are in power.
They need to stop.
Let people fully find out what they voted for.
Will this get people to support Democrats and blame Republicans?
Highly unlikely given the Republican media outlets, podcasts, and Republican supporting tech bros to use online micro targeting ads to broaden their support.
People nonetheless need to know what life will be like when the 90 years worth of guardrails Democrats built come off.
Kathleen
@Soprano2: I think racism accounts for the vile and visceral treatment of Biden in the media because he chose a Black woman for VP. I think many voters have that same reaction to the Democratic party for that same reason. People don’t just disagree with Democrats. They hate them.
Mr. Mack
@WereBear: I get that. Just remember cars tend to deteriorate when not driven.
catclub
Education and civics education are very long-term projects?
Starfish
@WereBear: Due to housing prices, I think some of these folks might be better off blue-ing purple states like Pennsylvania.
The housing prices mean that a lot of folks are aging in place, and folks raising families are getting up and moving to places where they can afford more house. That means our school districts are shrinking due to the number of school-aged children declining.
sentient ai from the future
@gene108:
“heighten the contradictions” rhetoric is harmful.
my child is transgender. we are on the front fucking lines here. do not abandon us to your privilege. please.
Kathleen
@WereBear: Agree with everything especially your last sentence. We are at the mercy of people who are so broken they’re disconnected from themselves.
WereBear
Steve Hassan was in the Moonies for a decade, getting targeted as a young man. Had meetings with Moon himself. Devoted, dedicated, ready to give his life, which he almost did.
Hit by a car and the cult left him for dead. Spent ten days in hospital, abandoned and ignored. Without the incessant daily indoctrination running his mind for him, by the end of those ten days, his mind had cleared enough for him to get out.
So yes, things can get so bad people leave. Maybe we should have SHUNNED the Trumpers. Spit on the ground every time their name gets mentioned.
THAT would have got to them. Hollywood and media SHAMING them instead of TUT TUTing? We can’t rely on their good nature, now that we have scientific proof they seem to lack foresight or any long term sense of cause and effect.
sentient ai from the future
when i try to reply to a commenter my comment gets eaten. “fuck you, wordpress” i think is the proper incantation?
anyway, as the parent of a transgender child, i urge people not to use “heighten the contradictions” rhetoric as i see someone not too far back did, and please, support people on the front lines of this.
Kathleen
@WereBear: Agree with everything but I question that they have hearts.
Starfish
@gene108: When Republicans were in the minority, they prevented Democrats from passing their agenda. Democrats in the minority should do the same.
If the Republicans get in a position where they can’t pass a real budget in December, should Democrats let them shut down government and have a bunch of government workers not get paid over the holidays? I feel conflicted about this. On the one hand, it is letting Republicans show that they can’t run a government. On the other hand, it will hurt real people who won’t be able to afford the holidays.
WereBear
@Mr. Mack: I run errands and it’s a half hour to the next town and back. And I was warned about how these computer cars really suck power so I need to keep the battery topped up by driving, too.
apocalipstick
@catclub:
And if someone doesn’t want to learn, they won’t.
Sure Lurkalot
@Jackie:
Hear, hear. Quickly went from “flawless campaign” to a whole panoply of errors. Reflection and correction are good but the fire hose of takes is not necessarily thoughtful or helpful, especially the branding bullshit. See Brooks in the FTFNY for column number infinity on how Democrats are the party of and for the elites.
Starfish
@catclub: Nukular Biskits lives in an area where education has been defunded for a generation, and they celebrate the defunding of education.
Mississippi was treated as some darling literacy miracle where they added no dollars to K-12 education but kids started doing better on their third grade literacy tests because 1) kids were being held back and 2) the state was eliminating focus on other things to focus on literacy.
schrodingers_cat
@gene108: Agreed. Congressional Democrats should not lift a finger to help the Republicans
WereBear
@p.a.: He is awesome. I’ve stopped hanging there when they threw out ALL the “doubters and questioners.”
But he’s always kept a good place there.
sentient ai from the future
@Starfish:
would that be before or after they decimate the civil service, disband NOAA, etc etc?
if theyve completed their purge of anyone suspected of disloyalty by then im not gonna give a shit
zhena gogolia
@gene108: Unfortunately that would mean letting people die. Democrats try not to do that.
gene108
@Geminid:
People born in the 1960’s and 1970’s (like me) either grew up or came of age when trust in government eroded starting with Watergate, finding out about COINTELPRO, etc. and then to Reagan’s philosophy of “government is the problem”.
When I was in high school 35 years ago, I was told Social Security wouldn’t be there when I retire. I grew up with the belief that I’d be on my own when I retire and government ain’t gonna do shit for me, and I’ve always been pretty liberal.
I was interested in Bush, Jr.’s plans to privatize Social Security and didn’t change my opinion until I listened Al Franken on Air America radio layout why Social Security would not go broke and privatization was a bad idea.
There’s nothing that has been done to broadly change society from accepting Reagan’s government is the problem philosophy. I think Bill Clinton’s failed attempt at healthcare reform is the last time changing the Reagan philosophy had viable chance of working.
It’s hard to be the party of good government, when people stopped believing the government can be good for the last 50 years.
zhena gogolia
@sentient ai from the future: We’ll do our best.
Rivers
@Xantar: of course it’s OK to wait. The whole thing about grief is that if you don’t go through it, it comes back later and Torments you. Also, don’t look at the news. I’ve cancelled my newspaper subscriptions, and I don’t have a television, But I have no doubt that I’ll find out what’s going on just by visiting Balloon Juice and TPM. What I don’t need to hear and I’m quite sure you don’t either is endless analysis and recriminations And speculations. We don’t know what’s coming and we need to be rested and healthy to be able to resist when we’re called upon, but it’s not yet. I know about depression And I very much feel for you and hope things will get better. But it’s really important that you Honor your own feelings and needs. Best of luck.
SFAW
@prostratedragon: And I see you got there before I did re: Judith Jamison.
Also sorry about Tony Todd. My favorite roles of his were in the Star Trek universe, both TNG and DS9
emjayay
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): Milk comes in various sizes. I’m assuming a half gallon of the basic stuff, and $1.50 a quart or so is about right.
“Bread” isn’t just bread. Even before getting to organic, is that generic brand fluffy white, or some actual whole multigrain stuff?
Aziz, light!
@Nukular Biskits: Most of Amazon’s income comes from Amazon Web Services, not e-commerce. Jeff Bezos has too much money to be influenced in any way. He bought the Washington Post with couch change and will shrug off all the cancellations. I don’t believe we can alter the behavior of oligarchs. The only goal to strive for is to greatly raise their taxes.
JeanneT
Well, this has inspired me to make a sample food market basket and rental availability/price survey to save on my computer. All from today’s listings in my hometown. It’ll be interesting to review it over the next few years.
Otherwise, I’m feeling grim and impatient… I fired one ‘friend’ who dismissed my emotions as over-blown and referred me to an article that normalized the 2025 plan as ‘not so bad’. She meant it to be comforting – but not helpful!
New Deal democrat
@Starfish: In a similar vein, Canada has already starting wooing US businesses to relocate there in order to avoid Trump’s tariffs, and wooing doctors and nurses from red States as well.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@catclub: IMHO, Trump’s people will freeze out Vance and his people. The Trumpians will want to keep power no matter what shape Trump is in, and will prop him up the way they did Reagan.
Starfish
@New Deal democrat: I am seriously concerned about our medical system, that the ACA didn’t go far enough, and that a lot of medical professionals are throwing their hands up in the face of “insurance” and just refusing it because it is not worth the work that is put in for the paltry reimbursements.
Dentists around me are for sure dropping Delta Dental, and eye doctors are dropping VSP. This has not reached medical insurance, but at some point, either we are all going to be seeing nurses as our primary doctors OR doctors are going to give up on the insurance nonsense.
K-Mo
My idea for today: a podcast called “ Joe Rogan is a Dumbass” that is targeted to Rogans listenership. It would have the irreverent humor and low-brow armchair analysis of current events that has benefited from the behind-the-scenes input of people who really know stuff. Each episode would also have a segment consisting of a thorough take-down of something Rogan has recently said. All delivered in a trash-talking, decidedly unacademic style (“here’s why Rogan’s take is moronic “) with no attempt to “both-sides” or equivocate, by a smart, middle-aged bro. Possibly with a hype-man sidekick to egg on the tirades.
VFX Lurker
Damn skippy it’s OK to wait. As the flight attendant says: you must secure your own oxygen mask before helping the next person with theirs!
Please avoid the news for as long as it takes. Wishing you success with your personal challenge.
Kathleen
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: That was a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing. It’s amazing what you can experience running at (in my case) 5:30 in the morning in different city neighborhoods and downtown. People could not believe I ran in “urban” (clears throat) neighborhoods by myself at that hour. Many of the Black residents I saw were my biggest cheerleaders.
I never had a problem with any person until I heard a white guy following me as I walked across downtown from garage to the fitness center. I greeted 3 Black ladies at the bus stop as I did every morning and one of them asked me if that man was bothering me and I said I was a little afraid. She popped up from the bench an approached him while telling him, “You leave her alone and don’t come back.” He looked shocked and retreated quickly.
hrprogressive
Just going to pop by to say the waging non-violence link seemed useful, and probably something everyone should save and refer back to.
But make no mistake, I think everyone who cares about their own personal safety, the safety of their family, and not being caught defenseless should prepare for Adam’s “Option 4” too.
Again, I am well aware nobody wants to hear it. But the more left of center people we have who understand this, and are ready if it comes will be better than having fewer.
Probably not hanging out here all day. Enjoy your sunday as best you can.
kalakal
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Franco springs to mine
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
I am in a foul mood after the election.
I am one of those people dependent on Obamacare for healthcare. When Republicans replace the ACA with whatever junk plan lobbyists cook up for them, I’m going to be fucked.
If I’m going down, I want to take others with me.
Democrats have been trying to mitigate the damage Republican policies have caused for decades, while trying to improve people’s lives and voters rejected them. Democrats need to become transactional. Unions don’t want businesses to fuck them? Better get your rank and file to vote for us or we won’t fix the union busting Republicans put in place.
You want rural broadband and better rural healthcare? You rednecks better vote D or we won’t fix what Republicans broke.
Voters need to feel the consequences of their votes. Trying to impress voters by fixing Republican’s messes and doing good government for it’s own sake has been a losing electoral bet for my entire 50 year lifetime.
People respond positively to Trump’s mafia boss tactics, then give the mafia boss tactics.
Sure Lurkalot
@Anne Laurie:
It was easy to coddle old Fred in his decline by feeding him fake papers to sign in his office. Trump’s will be on the world stage and his nonsense babble will be hard to hide despite legacy media’s sane washing.
Vance is likely worse but he’s also as appealing as a wart. He would be in position to do evil but I’d be shocked if he (or anyone in that party) can step up to cult leader status. Trump is The Mule.
SFAW
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Your comment reminds me of the last scene of the 1960s version of El Cid.
lowtechcyclist
@ArchTeryx:
Not everyone is in a position where they can resist. From what you’ve told us previously, you’ve got your hands full just trying to understand what your best options for keeping your family and yourself safe. That’s as much of a burden as anyone can expect you to shoulder. I wish you the best of luck.
p.a.
@trollhattan: I’ll have to check that out!
My guy, the first time I lost him as my mgr (we heard this from eyewitnesses), his boss, at one of those “shakeup meetings” told Dick he was shuffled to an office job (where he couldn’t run his errands on company time.) Dick: “why are you moving me inside?” Boss, “we think you’re the man for the job.” Dick, “what’ll I be doing?” Boss, “I don’t know yet.”
He got dumped back outside to a highly male workforce because the integrated office environment… let’s put it this way: you’ve heard of double-entendres? Dick was so crude his were single-entendres. This was 1980s-1990s, so- shuffle, not terminate. Like the Catholic church.
But wait, THERE’S MORE!
The last time I worked for him was in a nice suburban-to-rural part of the state. Dick had a real estate license. We techs got a pre-load of jobs each morning. Of course our boss saw them. If he knew of property for sale near one of our jobs, he’d ask us to take a swing by and tell him what we thought.😂. This time his boss (different boss) caught him with the company Chevette full of his realtor signs, as he was putting a sign in the lawn of one of his properties. This one he told me himself- third time working for a guy you build a relationship- “she told me to go home, come back Monday, and explain to me why you should still have a position here.”
He must have thought pretty hard: shuffled, not terminated.
I kinda miss New England Tel. I know I miss being in my 20s and 30s.
SFAW
@hrprogressive:
Which is what? Arm ourselves? [I’m being serious, I really don’t know what his “Options” list is.]
Gin & Tonic
Past 300 posts here, and this is a Twitter link (sorry) so nobody will read it, but here is a brilliant evisceration of Elmo’s running buddy David Sacks’s ignorance by the redoubtable Illia Ponomarenko:
Kathleen
@Anne Laurie: Someone is probably scraping food from his plate when he’s finished eating to sell “Trump’s Leftovers”.
gene108
@Xantar:
I’ve struggled with depression for decades. It’s okay to wait. One of the hardest things I have had to learn is being patient with myself and not scold myself for perceived shortcomings.
emjayay
@Phylllis: I’m baffled by that. I’ve never felt like I had to have a buddy-buddy feeling with any candidate. And I’d love to have a bunch of beers with Harris. But then I like smart knowledgeable people with a good sense of humor and irony.
Nukular Biskits
@Aziz, light!:
Agreed.
gene108
@Bill Arnold:
The economic numbers in 1984 were better than 1980. Right-wing media hadn’t become as dominant in influencing media coverage as it became in the 1990’s and afterwards.
The end result is that by 2010, the media environment had fractured with millions getting their news from right-wing partisan misinformation and disinformation outlets. They would not believe anything that ran counter to what right-wing media fed them.
The right-wing partisan media has become even more diffuse with a much broader reach and influence on the over all news coverage.
We do not live in a society with a shared reality any longer.
People believe what they feel like believing. Facts are a matter of opinion.
It’s going to be hard to adapt to.
Another Scott
@songbird: Thanks very much for the pointers. I like the Daniel Hunter piece (first link) a lot. Lots to think about there.
Thanks again.
Best wishes,
Scott.
gene108
@Phylllis:
I guess we overestimated how easily people can relate to black or brown politicians with “funny” names.
Makes one appreciate how singularly incredible Obama is.
sab
@rikyrah: I have noticed that the kids are taking it better than we are.
Another Scott
@kalakal: Yup. There are truisms that averages are always wrong (or at least usually misleading), and averages about “generations” especially so.
Obama is a Boomer; I’m a Boomer (both born in 1961). Etc.
Boomers are 1946 – 1964.
Something something clear, simple, and wrong.
[/boomer rant #32,134,006 ]
Best wishes,
Scott.
glc
@TF79: It’s probably not even median individual income. Maybe arithmetic mean across population (including infants? “working age”?).
As you say, the meaningful income figure is median household, $80,610 in 2023, the first “statistically significant” increase since 2019. (Nominal terms.)
MagdaInBlack
@Gin & Tonic: Isn’t this kind of full circle: what was being said in certain circles at the beginning? Along with Ukraine being full of Nazis?
Expect elon to amplify/pass this crap along, as always.
BarcaChicago
My god. I just saw Zelensky talking and the implications for him directly, for Ukraine, and for Europe hit me hard and caused me to cry hard. We are abandoning so many people to death, destruction and suffering. It is overwhelming. It is hard to be with this truth. This is much bigger than our own disaster here.
songbird
@Another Scott: Thank you, a lot. I always appreciate what you share here.
BarcaChicago
@Ohio Mom: My close Jewish friends absolutely understand that they are conditionally “white” and very soon conditions will change. Look at the Jewish vote: as usual, overwhelmingly Democratic. They do not have access to the denial of reality that whiteness provides. They are in danger, and we will need to protect all of our people who will be targeted by empowered white supremacy.
steve g
Meet up to fight this, January 6, 2025, 9:00 am, D.C. Capitol building, out frontRemain calm…
George
@Butch: How about a scenario in which Trump tells Vance to get lost, and then appoints Ivanka or Don Jr. as vice president so when Trump inevitably croaks, one of his kids will take over?
Sound far-fetched? Yeah, maybe, but who is going to stop him? The media? The Supreme Court? Other Republicans? The tens of millions of MAGAts and normies who cast their votes for him? As a psychopath, Trump exists on creating chaos. I see no reason why he won’t continue that way.
Kathleen
@Nukular Biskits: That’s a good idea. I read the Ohio Capital Journal (free publication which is excellent) and the Cincinnati Business Courier because it covers so many issues in a balanced, straightforward manner. Also the reporters are excellent writers and seem to love what they do so there is absence of resentful, “gotcha”, gossipy crap.
Nukular Biskits
@Kathleen:
STRONGLY recommend you donate to/support your local independent press!
burritoboy
Fascists movements never outlast their leader. No fascist regime that I know of has ever been able to achieve a successful leadership change once their single, founding leader dies or is otherwise unable to go on. It is complex to explain, but the core of the fascist emotional experience does not permit multiple leaders at the same time (i.e. a top one, and potential younger growing leaders beneath). It is effectively impossible for a new leader to emerge quickly after the first leader’s death (the potential leader must emerge from essentially no where and fight many other claimants for the role). That period of time needed to establish a new leader is too long for the heightened emotional state that fascism relies upon to maintain without one single unifying leader.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: Agree. Right wingers/Republicans aren’t the only ones who resent power Black people have in the Democratic Party;. The “primary Biden” debacle demonstrated that.
Soprano2
@Nukular Biskits: That’s the avoiding finding out part. He was president for 4 years, unless you’re under 20 you can remember what it was like.
Kathleen
@Elizabelle: I get that. I was so stressed out this week I developed a painful left hip. I know that my emotions and feelings play a huge part in my physical body. Sometimes a cold medication that knocks me out is a welcome gift.
Gin & Tonic
@MagdaInBlack:
“Certain circles” have been saying this all along.
And Ukraine is such a Nazi country that the only son of the Chief Rabbi of Ukraine joined the armed forces and gave his life for its independence.
Thing is, as has been discussed in Adam’s threads, many in Ukraine, including in positions of government, feel betrayed by the Biden administration’s passivity.
JAFD
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride: Happy Happy Birthday !
You’ve got about 8 months of seniority on me ;-)
different-church-lady
You keep doing facts like they matter anymore.
sab
@WereBear: I am a dog person and dogs tend to hate music, especially singing. I think they realize they don’t understand it and that worries them.
I am surprised by how much all of our cats seem to really like music. When I have classical music playing anywhere the cats congregate in the room with the radio, whether I am in there or not.
sab
@sentient ai from the future: Agreed. Heighten the contradictions is Susan Sarandon thinking.
Geminid
@burritoboy: There is a particular dynamic here that historically has played out in monarchies: the King is in failing health. This will not a matter of rumor like it might have been in ancient times. If Trump is in fact deteriorating– and I believe he is– his decline will play out under the spotlight of 21st century news coverage.
That is another singular aspect of this mess. I won’t speculate about the ramifications beyond positing that Trump Chief of Staff Susan Wiles will be very much a key player, at least for a while.
Bill Arnold
@George:
Vance could say no, and there would be nothing that Trump could do about it, except maybe kill him and call it an official POTUS act.
Kayla Rudbek
@Thor Heyerdahl: I love this metaphor. And some of us are going to ride stoker (rear seat) on the bike because we can’t get as far riding alone.
brantl
@Butch: Unfortunately, while JV Vance is going to suck ass, so is the country.
brantl
@UncleEbeneezer: Yep. we’re going the have to start dragging the Rethuglicans honestly, they way they keep dragging us dishonestly.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@emjayay: the general “milk” quantity seems to be a gallon. Around here that’s $2.30 at Costco to $3.50 at the big name grocers, with the snooty organic in glass half-gallons going for $6 plus $3 bottle deposit. And “bread” is per loaf, going from the store-brand-Wonder-knockoff at $2 up to the $8/loaf artisan whole grain. YMMV.
Chris Johnson
@George: Who’s going to stop him? Thiel.
Vance is Thiel, basically. Thiel’s got, or says he’s got, stuff that the old kings want. He’s creepy as anything, but among his qualities like adoring monarchy, there’s that fascination with immortality.
Thiel is the kind of power player who is not out showboating like Musk. Vance is his, otherwise Vance wouldn’t be there at all. Not like the dude impressed on the stump. It’s what Vance represents. If Vance goes, it means Thiel is on the outs.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@zhena gogolia: To paraphrase Mr and Mrs Smith: We have an unusual problem here. They obviously want us dead, and we’re less and less concerned for their well-being.
Kayla Rudbek
@Nukular Biskits: I’d be happy to join in
Kayla Rudbek
@Lyrebird: as I mentioned downstairs, I use this app https://www.goodsuniteus.com/ when making purchase decisions. I am not perfect, I haven’t cancelled Amazon yet, but I try to avoid shopping at Walmart etc. whenever possible. As Miles Vorkosigan said, “all right, my children, let’s go hit them in the payroll” because that’s the only language that they can understand.
Nukular Biskits
@Kayla Rudbek:
Not sure to which post you’re replying but, if it’s about local independent journalism, here’s my go-to’s here in the benighted Magnolia State:
Mississippi Free Press: Journalism by Mississippians, For Mississippians
Mississippi Today | Reporting, podcasts and online communities
Geminid
@Chris Johnson: Vance will have job security because he cannot be removed except by impeachment. Trump’s people can always give Vance the “mushroom treatment,” as in keep him in the dark and cover him with manure, but they can’t get rid of him.
Vance will be under suspicion at least, and I expect one requirement for prospective Cabinet members will be that they are not connected to Thiel or Thiel allies.
Vance has a lot of incentive to be a loyal subordinate though, because he now has two viable paths to the Oval office. If Trump dies in office, Vance advances automatically. But if Trump completes his term, Vance won’t win the 2028 nomination without Trump’s support. Trump made Vance, and he can break him too.
Kayla Rudbek
@K-Mo: insert picture of the guy with a fistful of dollars shouting “shut up and take my money!”
Kayla Rudbek
@gene108: it’s called “tit for tat” strategy and it’s a only way to win a prisoner’s dilemma game
Kayla Rudbek
@Nukular Biskits: I was responding to the idea of boycotting the Trumpist businesses. Vote with your pocketbook
Nukular Biskits
@Kayla Rudbek:
That’s something I’m going to work on, although I really should have been compiling that list prior to the election.
The Truffle
@TBone: that swing can’t come soon enough.
Suburban Mom
@Steve LaBonne: Thanks. I’m familiar with the directory and I’m trying to figure out what local congregation might be the best fit for me. My former congregation shut down a few years ago, and the members sort of dissipated. It sounded like your congregation had a strong social activism effort, which appeals to me, but Ohio is definitely out of the question. ;<)
NotMax
@Kayla Rudbek
Doubtless is need of updating, but a starting point of fellow travelers.
These Are The 25 Businesses Quietly Paying Trump $115 Million Each Year
SFAW
@Bill Arnold:
Actually, one of the footnotes in the Project 2025 tome has Trump doing exactly that.
OK, not really, but I bet someone has already spent some cycles gaming it out.