In 2018 when Donald Trump was befouling the Oval Office in his first term, he had a call scheduled with Putin. His advisors wrote “DO NOT CONGRATULATE” in big block letters in the call briefing book because it would be unseemly for an American president to congratulate a grotesque dictator on his election victory. Trump congratulated Putin anyway.
This is almost as gross as that was, in my opinion. [WaPo]
President Joe Biden and President-elect Donald Trump met face-to-face on Wednesday morning in the Oval Office, an extraordinary moment for two men who have repeatedly expressed public disdain for one another as they go through one of the most unusual transfers of power in American history…
“Congratulations,” Biden said at the start of the meeting, during the brief time reporters were in the room. He added that he hoped it would be a smooth transition…
“President Biden is doing this because he believes in the norms, he believes in our institution. He believes in a peaceful transfer of power,” White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said Tuesday. “The American people deserve this. They deserve a peaceful transfer of power. They deserve a smooth transition. And that’s what you’re going to see.”
Peaceful transfer of power, yes, but fuck a bunch of norms and institutions. And double-fuck congratulating the Queens quisling.
I think I understand why Biden is treating Trump like a normal politician now after correctly identifying him as an existential threat to U.S. democracy before. He’s trying to model grownup behavior. But it’s too late for that shit, and extending more than the bare minimum of cooperation to effect a peaceful transition is a species of “sane-washing.”
A brazen criminal who should have been disqualified from ever holding office again was able to slither back into power thanks to the failure of “norms and institutions.” So please excuse me if my faith in them is as extinct as my belief in the impartiality of the U.S. Supreme Court and the wisdom of U.S. voters who chose four more years of corruption and chaos. DO NOT CONGRATULATE!
Open thread.
KatKapCC
I don’t care about modeling adult behavior or going high when they go low. Treating a felon rapist traitor like a normal human being and a normal politician is disgusting.
@mistermix.bsky.social
It would be bad if fascists took over, but you know what would be really bad? If the DC norms were violated. /s
rikyrah
CALL TO ACTIVISM (@CalltoActivism) posted at 8:00 PM on Tue, Nov 12, 2024:
Soon to be Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth complained on Fox that veterans who use the benefits they’ve earned are dependent on the government and lack “personal integrity”.
This is what every Vet who wore their MAGA hats to the VA hospital voted for.
https://t.co/H1bfbCLPUi
(https://x.com/CalltoActivism/status/1856517552727339361?s=03)
df
@rikyrah: Womp womp.
John S.
@rikyrah:
Fuck em. You reap what you sow.
Trollhattan
How to do it.
Elizabelle
Decency is one of Biden’s superpowers, but it is not deserved here. He is a better POTUS than we deserved, and the way the media ignored his very real successes (while never missing a mistake, real or imagined) helped bring us to this tragedy.
Scamp Dog
I think there’s no way saying congratulations or not makes much of a difference. TCFFG will govern in whatever way his addled brain comes up with, and the people around him will do something or other. Their backstabbing and infighting may slow down some things, but it’s going to be bad no matter what.
Tone policing doesn’t mean much right now.
rikyrah
A.R. Moxon (@JuliusGoat) posted at 11:09 AM on Wed, Nov 13, 2024:
if you voted for trump, or excuse those who did, people in your orbit know you’re unsafe. When the chips are down, you’ll sell them out and then retreat to your self-exonerating excuses. You did it when the chips weren’t down.
You’re unsafe, and dangerous times are coming. Bye.
(https://x.com/JuliusGoat/status/1856746245747859553?t=LnZxR7tRBBTfWRJYA2FfWQ&s=03)
Antonius
1000% Do not reinforce the norms and traditions that have so abjectly failed the nation.
cain
You do the bare minimum. You know Trump is a narcissist. You’re literally feeding that with this bullshit. He loves that Joe is coming over to congratulate him.
Demeaned himself and the office that this man will demean.
Trump is more than an opponent, he is the destroyer of worlds.
Splitting Image
Meh.
I can’t really find the energy to be angry about Biden performing the final niceties of his office.
There are many people out there more worthy of venting anger upon.
zhena gogolia
I am not going to criticize Joe Biden for a single fucking thing.
The American people voted for this.
rikyrah
NO.LIE.TOLD.
That roster Donald Trump is putting together will be the end of Palestine and their people. All of this could’ve been avoided. The Palestinians needed better advocates and a smarter movement, but they were led by hamas. Now, when those bombs start dropping, we’re gonna watch.
(https://x.com/WonderKing82/status/1856724463414301060?t=2RZFYhwr1SyqlWtp6JCIjw&s=03)
Antonius
@@mistermix.bsky.social: I’m already clutching my pearls and searching for the fainting couch.
Chief Oshkosh
It would be one thing if Biden was playing nice in public but doing things behind the scenes to protect us from Trump (especially our overseas human assets), but sadly, I have to finally admit to myself that that simply isn’t likely to be happening. He’s going to hand over the entire package as though everything is normal. Hope I’m wrong, but…
zhena gogolia
@Chief Oshkosh: Yes, he should be using that magic wand that Merrick Garland just refused to use that would have put Trump behind bars in two weeks. Why, oh, why don’t they use the magic wand?
Wyatt Salamanca
From MSNBC – Matt Gaetz to be AG
Steve LaBonne
@Splitting Image: We’re Democrats, circular firing squads are what we do. They serve us a lot less well than Biden being gracious.
df
@Trollhattan: Is Newsom prepared for Trump deploying the US military to the California border? Because that is a frighteningly real possibility. It’s hard not to assume that even the bluest of blue governors won’t simply roll over at the sight of the first constitutional crisis.
Old School
Well, that settles it. I’m not voting for Biden again.
rikyrah
Donald Trump is a white DEI hire (@Needle_of_Arya) posted at 9:47 AM on Wed, Nov 13, 2024:
White conservatives: into the public discourse and go on and on about “DEI hires” and how the the best Black person is less qualified the worst white one, because “biology & genetics”
Also, white conservatives: not a peep when a RW talk-show host becomes Secretary of Defense
(https://x.com/Needle_of_Arya/status/1856725479375478876?t=ynZ7dxvZmFB-3TV-nyzHKA&s=03)
suzanne
@rikyrah: Yeah….nah. No activism from me on this. It appears that roughly two-thirds of voters who served or are serving in the military voted for Trump.
Steve LaBonne
@zhena gogolia: I can only shake my head at people who don’t realize that Trump would have run from prison and not only won, but probably won bigger.
df
@Wyatt Salamanca: This one actually made me laugh. I mean, it’s not good, but like… it’s still so over-the-top.
rikyrah
Lip so pursed.
It happened today a coworker (white lesbian with a special needs child) spoke about how she voted for Orange man because of her “beliefs and faith” said she didn’t know about his plans with DOE and he’s not “allowed” to take away funding especially for special needs kids
(https://x.com/luvin_JnJ/status/1856547282734194748?s=03)
MT
Biden probably wants to minimize the chance that Trump sics the DOJ on him, although it may be too late for that too
zhena gogolia
@Steve LaBonne: I floated this as a dumb idea the day or so after the election, but we would have been better off just leaving him alone. He might have withered away. The prosecutions just increased his power.
HeleninEire
@df: Yeah. I laughed too. A comedy of errors.
Old School
@Wyatt Salamanca:
Not sure this Pitchbot from yesterday was posted here:
zhena gogolia
@Wyatt Salamanca: I am vomiting. This is the worst one yet. I thought Gabbard was the worst, but this is horrible.
Aileen Cannon would be better.
zhena gogolia
@Old School: Oh, fuck DougJ.
Sure Lurkalot
Made a comment to this effect in the last thread.
There is no obligation or reason for democrats to normalize Trump. He has no respect for the peaceful transfer of power nor even an amicable one. He sabotaged the 2020/21 transition and hampered the new administration from the get go. A lot of the Biden administration’s work was undoing Trump’s damage.
What’s the upside of playing nice with a psychopath hellbent on destroying your legacy and your country’s democracy, Joe, as well as the lives of your supporters?
And for those who just can’t criticize this abject capitulation because this is just Joe’s decency? Remember Joe’s SOTU speech? There was Joe’s decency, bringing truth to power. Whatever the fuck is happening today is not.
CaseyL
I’m entirely disgusted with the Biden-Harris response to T’s election, precisely for that reason.
Don’t spend months, and gazillions of dollars in advertising, telling us The future of Democracy depends on the outcome of this election!, and then meekly hand over the keys when “the future of Democracy” loses.
Don’t spend months, and gazillions of dollars in advertising, shouting “We Will Not Go Back,” and then … not only go back, but invite the POS to tea
… and so on. It makes me question whether they believed what they were saying or if, in the end, all of that was just campaign blathering, not to be taken seriously.
rikyrah
Greg Sargent (@GregTSargent) posted at 7:50 AM on Wed, Nov 13, 2024:
Disturbing prediction from @paulkrugman: If Trump’s deportations really happen, inflation will spike, then MAGA loyalists will corrupt government info to mask it.
For autocrats, he says, “among their first targets are statistical agencies.”
Our exchange:
https://t.co/hFtO3Kd1hl https://t.co/i2daSfBTGi
(https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/1856696146204213558?s=03)
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Yeah, given that Trump is subject to two federal criminal cases that will now go away, that one is basically misinformation.
prostratedragon
Gives him one less thing to whine about when the inevitable whining starts. Don’t know if I would or could have done it, but that doesn’t make it wrong I guess.
zhena gogolia
@CaseyL: The message was to the American people about their votes. They voted.
Baud
@CaseyL:
They didn’t believe it and you shouldn’t either.
Trollhattan
@df: IDK how that even works, constitutionally. IIUC another state’s National Guard cannot cross states w/o being invited by that state’s governor. It’s happened here for wildfires and other natural disasters.
Will add our border w/ Mexico is nowhere the size of Arizona and Texas, and much more controlled already.
OTOH worker roundups is a whole other thing. They’ll probably advertise for ICE jobs on Craig’s List.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Wyatt Salamanca: Holy cow
Gin & Tonic
And a russian asset at DNI.
rikyrah
They had so many opportunities to keep their audience.
But, they failed.
Their dedication to BOTH SIDES.
Their dedication to trying to normalize Trump.
Their dedication to SANE WASHING Trump.
How they treated Joe Biden.
We’re just DONE.
Nobody has time to watch another four years of them not attempting to cover him honestly.
Their unwillingness to do it the first time is why we’re here.
So, no….uh uh…no more watching them.
Michelangelo Signorile (@MSignorile) posted at 7:18 AM on Wed, Nov 13, 2024:
MSNBC and CNN are finding out the hard way that people will not watch them if they’re going to engage in endless finger-pointing at phantom targets and bash whole communities.
If you want your viewers back, fight for democracy with no both sides bullshit (night AND day).
(https://x.com/MSignorile/status/1856688089118257605?s=03)
Old School
@rikyrah:
Not sure how that’d work.
“Prices aren’t going up. You are imagining that.”
Peale
@rikyrah: Yep. The only reason he didn’t come after them last time was because they mostly had good economic news for him. At least for now, he doesn’t control the Fed and their analysts. We have about 1 year of decent numbers left.
cain
@Wyatt Salamanca:
Literally, a man who slept with underaged girls is attorney general. Sigh.
gene108
@rikyrah:
Good. I hope those vets lose benefits.
********
All I hope for is the under 40 year old Democrats will burn institutions down and rebuild them to be sturdier.
The institutions failed because at least half the people (Republicans) working in those institutions worked to make them fail. Institutions are no better or worse than the people in them. There’s no magic institution that can standup to terrible people, if enough people in those institutions want the terrible people in charge.
Older Democrats seem to think the institutions have magic powers independent of the people running them to protect themselves and the citizenry.
Checks and balances only works if most people in government agree to checks for crimes, unethical behavior like accepting bribes, etc. are important, and are willing to balance out the terrible people by having an independent agenda, rather than being sniveling yes men only interested in hanging on to power.
df
@Trollhattan: Oh, that’s easy: Congress says it’s okay, the Supreme Court says it’s okay, and Trump says it’s okay. And then they show up with guns, so it’s okay. None of the people in power or about to assume power care about the Constitution.
Baud
Via blue sky, here’s something we can all unify out outrage around.
Trollhattan
@Wyatt Salamanca:
Judge Roy Moore leaps with glee.
Splitting Image
@Wyatt Salamanca:
It sort of flew under the radar with all the other stuff going on, but keep in mind that Trump met with Timothy Dolan, protector of altarboy-buggerers, a week or so before the election.
Putting a man credibly accused of interfering with minors in charge of enforcing the law indicates that interfering with minors is not going to be treated as a serious problem for the next four years. Which leads me to believe that Trump’s gang are going to protect the Catholic Church from the lawsuits that are still ongoing, and from any future misbehaviour. This was likely what Dolan talked to Trump about.
Gaetz will presumably also work to defend the numerous Evangelicals and Mormons up to their necks in this shit.
This has been your happy thought for the day.
Ksmiami
They seem to be under the impression that America will right itself- delusional
cain
@CaseyL:
Trump will try to put Biden in jail.
chrisanthemama
@Wyatt Salamanca: Rapey-McFck-Face! What, MTG wasn’t available? Trump picks Rep. Matt Gaetz to serve as attorney general | CNN Politics
Baud
@gene108:
Young people weren’t our saviors this election.
Trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic: Seriously, they need to frisk her every day when she leaves the office.
bluefoot
@rikyrah: Word. I saw this in 2020 during the beginning of the pandemic, then the George Floyd protests. I told a few people essentially, “ You’ve proven you’re unsafe, and while I can be friendly with you, I can’t be friends with you.”
Baud
@cain:
And half the liberal interest will rejoice.
cain
@rikyrah:
This is correct because that is what happened during Covid in Florida.
No jobs report, no economic indicators etc.
The good news, is that none of that swayed the public anyways. It’s the high prices at the pump and the grocery store. That’s not going to be easy to fix. You can’t fix how much people make and spend those are personal metrics that can’t be covered.
Chief Oshkosh
@zhena gogolia: Now, now. No strawmen, or wands, needed. I wasn’t talking about Garland.
But as long as you bring him up…a little sensitive, are we?
hells littlest angel
Saying congratulations is the bare minimum of co-operation, I think. Trump’s election is the will of the fucking people, may they all go to hell. I can forgive Biden for honoring the norms, just as I’d forgive him for serving Trump a cyanide-laced Diet coke.
KatKapCC
Stubbornly insisting on treating our politicians like they are infallible deities who have never and will never do a single thing wrong and should not ever be criticized whatsoever is, in my opinion, not the way the Democratic Party should operate.
But y’all do you, I guess.
minachica
Indeed. Why wait for Russia’s help when we can just destroy our traditions all by ourselves?
//also bitter, also no answers, sorry
John S.
@Baud:
It’s not misinformation, it’s satire.
We’re going to need some thicker skin if we’re going to survive the next 4 years.
cain
@rikyrah:
Add your twitter influencers and tiktok influencers.
A lot of malarkey out there.
Layer8Problem
@Chief Oshkosh: Yeah, we are. Funny that.
zhena gogolia
@KatKapCC: I’m just wondering why all the wrath is being directed at Joe Biden.
Trump and the people who voted for him are where my anger is directed.
cain
@Baud: Especially the pro-palestinian crowd.
Baud
@John S.:
It suggests Trump wasn’t prosecuted. That’s misinformation. Satire doesn’t have to be false.
John S.
@Chief Oshkosh:
There’s a large Merrick Garland fan club here, and they all get very defensive.
If UncleEbeneezer shows up to the thread, you’ll see it in full force.
John S.
@Baud:
To me it smacks more of he inadvertently shielded him through bungling. YMMV.
Baud
@cain:
Not sure I would classify them as liberal. Don’t know want their leanings are.
zhena gogolia
YOU’RE GOING TO JUST LOVE MATT GAETZ AS ATTORNEY GENERAL
Steve LaBonne
@zhena gogolia: Satire is dead.
Dangerman
Shit. I thought the Matt Gaetz thing was a joke.
Baud
@John S.:
For me, it’s more that the critiques became a culture onto itself. It’s what libs always do. It’s like the reverse of One Weird Trick. It’s “we would have won but for [fill in the blank].”
gene108
@MT:
Biden better become cynical enough to understand he needs to raise tens of millions of dollars before leaving office for his possible upcoming legal battles, because there will no longer be guardrails on the DOJ. The Trump v. U.S. decision that granted the president absolute immunity for official acts also stated the AG works directly for the President.
zhena gogolia
Social media has destroyed the United States of America.
John S.
@Baud:
True enough. Self-flagellation is kind of our thing.
Hair shirts for everyone!
Sure Lurkalot
@zhena gogolia: Hope you have some anger to spare for the millions of Democrats who didn’t bother to vote.
zhena gogolia
And I walk around, and people are enjoying the sunshine, thinking things are just moving along great. Even people who don’t like Trump don’t realize what has happened. I wonder when it’s going to hit them.
zhena gogolia
@Sure Lurkalot: Oh, yes, them too.
Baud
motoran
Biden has been a very weak president from the beginning. His decision to pick Garland as AG, hie bi-partisan bs, his inability to stand up to the Israelis, etc.
It should not come as a surprise that he is doing what he is doing.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Hell muthaphuckin no
hells littlest angel
@zhena gogolia: It’s like he’s really trying to be as horrible as possible.
zhena gogolia
@hells littlest angel: Someone said to me, “Well, we’ve been here before.” NO WE HAVEN’T. All the semi-decent people abandoned him after 1/6, and what’s left is this band of criminals, perverts, and traitors. They will be our overlords.
Sure Lurkalot
@Baud:
Curious to what your lawyer opinion is as to DOJ’s handling of cases vs Trump and the cases vs Hunter Biden.
Baud
We are going to spend the next four years blaming Dems for not stopping the Republican agenda, aren’t we?
Wyatt Salamanca
All of these batshit crazy picks by Trump can be laid at the doorstep of lowlife Mitch McConnell.
If Mitch had voted to convict Trump in the second impeachment trial, this country would be in a much better position right now because Trump would have been prevented from running again.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Old School: I expect he’d then bring back price controls.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Yes.
Baud
@Sure Lurkalot:
The Hunter investigation was pending for a lot longer than Trump’s.
Layer8Problem
Given these choices for important offices, you know there’s a New York Times columnist teeing up an article explaining why they are all Biden’s fault, if you think about it.
zhena gogolia
@Layer8Problem: It’s happening right here. Everything is Biden’s fault.
Jackie
@Wyatt Salamanca: And, per the New York Times, TCFG has chosen Tulsi Gabbard to serve as the director of national intelligence.
Soprano2
@Old School: That’s exactly what they’ll try, and a lot of the MAGAs will parrot it even though they know it’s a lie. That’s what all the lying is about, so they can do it all the time and get away with it when it really matters.
cmorenc
@rikyrah:
They won’t be able to hide the price of eggs etc. at the grocery store. Or that the price of everything shot up 20% if Trump goes through with his tariffs.
gene108
@Old School:
Information can be easily corrupted and people will believe it because otherwise people would have to accept they made a mistake putting someone in power.
It’s like how Bush, Jr. kept talking about how great Iraq occupation was going, so people would re-elect him.
At some point reality may set in, but things have to become really bad before it happens.
David Anderson
I wish I could write this sentence:
Chris
@CaseyL:
Repeated from downstairs:
You can’t just go to your voters with your hair on fire every two years telling them that the sky is falling, the world is ending, this is the most important election of our lives, and if you don’t give us money to help us win it it’s going to be literally Order 66 times the Red Wedding to the power of Judgment Day… and then as soon as the election’s over, go right back to acting as if everything is normal and the people across the aisle from you are just nice patriotic Americans who happen to have a sincere difference of opinion, you know, just like you and your wife at dinner time when you want an omelet but she wants kielbasa. Nobody fucking buys it. The only thing it teaches people is that dire warnings over the state of democracy is just how politicians raise money and get elected, but that they don’t actually believe any of it themselves.
gene108
@cmorenc:
Will people believe inflation is because of Trump’s tariffs or mass deportations?
People’s ability to understand cause and effect is absolutely fucking terrible. Given the level of disinformation that’s going to become official government policy in 2025, I’m doubtful people will even believe the price of eggs went up.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Jackie: I’m speechless. “Tulsi Gabbard” and “intelligence” are ideas that do not belong together.
Citizen Alan
@zhena gogolia: He’s saving her for SCOTUS.
TBone
@David Anderson: this right here is why Jesus’s middle name is Fucking.
Gas mask Gaetz. That fucking guy. JFC.
Baud
@Chris:
Don’t worry. We won’t be doing it again because people didn’t believe us when we did it.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Yep.
TBone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: 😆 I hope you regain your witty repertoire soonest!
NoraLenderbee
How about a tax revolt? As a Californian, I would gladly withhold the portion of my Federal taxes that goes to support red states that “hate gubmint” but suck in more Federal dollars than they pay.
Jeffro
@CaseyL:
1,145% this
quit respecting norms that have already been blown to smithereens
Jackie
@chrisanthemama: MTG must be burning with rage… as of now, TCFG is shunning her loyal loyalty.
tam1MI
Exactly. Any obligations he had to the Democratic Party ended in July.
Citizen Alan
@cmorenc: Eggs could go for $20 a carton and Fox and the MAGAts would insist that they were higher under Biden.
geg6
@Baud:
GTFOOH. Jesus Christ.
Steve LaBonne
@Citizen Alan: I used to know people like that. Not voluntarily, at work.
Citizen Alan
@Jackie: I can’t imagine what Cabinet post even Trump could give to MTG. She’s not qualified to do anything except scream on camera.
Sure Lurkalot
@zhena gogolia:
oh please. Criticizing Biden for laying out the welcome mat for Trump is distinctly not that. If you failed at saving Democracy through the front door, don’t open the back door to the guy who incited a violent coup to overthrow it.
Jackie
@hells littlest angel: Welcome to the Revenge and Retribution presidency we were promised.
CaseyL
@Baud:
You are right. Got it.
History is accelerating, with all the post-WWII Great Powers falling into degeneracy and decline very quickly. Gonna leave one hell of a vacuum; no way to tell if something fills it. I’m not likely to be around for whatever the denouement is, thank the FSM.
TBone
@Baud: thanks for that tiny ray of light.
Baud
Maybe people didn’t vote because they thought Biden would fix things under his dark Brandon powers if Trump won.
Anyway
@zhena gogolia: Geez, no need to shout. I hope Joe pardons Hunter before thanksgiving.
Lapassionara
@Jeffro: I hate this too, but I can only imagine the headlines if Biden did what we would prefer publicly. IOKIYAR rules the media.
I am trying to figure out what Biden could do in private that would really help the situation. After all, he does have Presidential Immunity. I hope someone in the “Deep State” is working on this.
geg6
@zhena gogolia:
You know that I am a Biden stan. But I was so disgusted to see the little I saw of that meeting. I’m not even sure he should have even had it. But seeing him congratulating him and then laughing with him made me sick to my stomach. This was a bad move by Biden. Normalizing him, just as the media have done, is not what I want or expect from my leader. Joe was wrong here.
Baud
Via Blue sky, did anyone else hear this
Ridnik Chrome
Gaetz as Attorney General and Gabbard as Director of Intelligence?
Yeah, it’s gonna be way worse than last time.
Anyway
Fuck the media. Who cares what they say
gratuitous
I agree that snubbing the felon and paying him back in his own coin would be highly satisfying and the felon would deserve it.
But two seconds afterwards, Republicans and their media megaphones would make a nine-days’ event out of it, and our national narrative would forever after include that Awful and Oh-So-Rude Joe Biden. First, Biden deserves a better legacy than that. Second, it would put the finishing touch on the national amnesia about how the felon threw a months-long tantrum after he lost in 2020, culiminating in his not being at the White House on Inauguration Day 2021 to receive his successor.
Splitting Image
@Anyway:
The independent voters who put Trump and his crew in charge last week.
Jeffro
Here’s a thought, BJers: it’s a slim chance, but we (Dems in general) ought to publicly appeal to Senate Republicans. Considering trumpov’s picks for Defense, AG, and DNI, the fate of our country literally rests in the Senate’s hands.
We ought to at least remind them that it’s on them now.
Baud
@geg6:
I think that ship sailed last week. Trump is normal for today’s United States. No more normalization is necessary or possible.
KatKapCC
[nm]
Old School
Dorothy A. Winsor
LOLOL. You know how there’s a reporter named Matt Gertz?
He just posted on Blue Sky: “Well, I’m fucked.”
geg6
@Baud:
Perhaps. But I refuse and I expect our leaders to have as much gumption.
Anyway
@Jeffro: How is Froette taking the loss?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Old School: We both saw poor Matt Gertz posting. LOL
Jeffro
One, release absolutely everything we have on trump and Russia.
Two, release absolutely everything that Jack Smith has on both J6 and the stolen documents case.
Three, order the arrests of all J6 conspirators in Congress, in trumpov’s family, and assorted henchmen.
Four, release all evidence/intel on Gaetz and Gabbard at a minimum.
Five, give a speech (or series of speeches) that get the country focused in the right direction: “the people have spoken…but now, so must the Senate. And if you surrender your right to advice & consent, if you confirm people who you know will harm the rule of law and the national security of the United States…that’s on you, forever”
Realistic? Not at all. But why go quietly? Lay down markers. Go out fighting.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia:
I am. His policy on Ukraine for the last year has been a disaster, and has cost actual lives, among them people I know. This is 100% on him – not the media, not the voters, not Republicans. The promise of the first year, year-and-a-half of the war has evaporated, and he and his administration are broadly and deeply unpopular in Ukraine.
Feel free to pie me – you or anyone else.
KatKapCC
@zhena gogolia: You seem to see “any amount of displeasure whatsoever” as “ALL THE WRATH”. Have you been asleep? There has been plenty of wrath aimed at Trump, Vance, the GOP, the media, etc etc etc. But we are also allowed to be upset when someone on our side does something we don’t like and that we don’t think is a good thing to do.
If you think liking Biden means you can never ever ever ever ever say a single critical thing about him, then I don’t know how to discuss this with you, because that is simply not a realistic world view. All politicians fuck up sometimes. We have to be able and willing to say so when they do.
tam1MI
The inevitable move to the Right.
As predicted.
geg6
@Jeffro:
I agree. He (and we) has nothing to lose.
VFX Lurker
Yep.
I blame the non-voters, the third-party voters and the convicted felon voters. They voted for this. They can have it. All of it.
stinger
@gene108:
What about the rest of us? Vets who voted for Harris (and Clinton)?
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I guess so!
KatKapCC
@zhena gogolia: No one has said that. YOU have said that NOTHING is his fault.
Emily B.
@Jeffro: Tulsi Gabbard as director of national intelligence isn’t going to strengthen our intelligence-sharing relationships with allies. Except maybe our new ally Russia.
Baud
@tam1MI:
I wouldn’t be surprised by a move to the right, but I would be surprised to see Rahm get the job. Axelrod has proven to be a douche.
Soprano2
@Baud: I saw that, oh God no.
zhena gogolia
@KatKapCC: Okay: he shouldn’t have stepped down in July. That’s his fault.
Jeffro
@Anyway: she is, um…militant? Amped up beyond belief? I think that’s about right.
geg6
@stinger:
Nobody who voted for Clinton/Biden/Harris is to blame and they do not deserve to suffer. However, your fellow vets and active duty comrades chose differently and will have to face the consequences just as you will. It sucks but there is nothing to be done about it now.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: They’re going to just love Trump’s policies.
KatKapCC
@zhena gogolia: This is a really gross comment.
Ridnik Chrome
@Jeffro: What Senate? They’re all going to be recess appointments.
Omnes Omnibus
People attacking anyone other than Trump and his cronies are fucking up. So, fave fun with it. Peace out.
zhena gogolia
@KatKapCC: I am living in absolute terror of what’s going to happen in Ukraine now. Don’t tell me how to feel about it. This has been my number one fear about Trump’s election. And now it’s real. Tulsi Gabbard as DNI. This is a total disaster, sickening, vomit-inducing.
geg6
@zhena gogolia:
Just like the Muslim communities in Michigan and the anti-Israel dipshits on campuses will.
cain
@Baud: They lean towards self delusional
cmorenc
We had our semiannual meeting with our investment advisors today – an investment management firm with a big blue-ribbon name in the financial world. I told them that I wasn’t going to use the occasion to get into any general rant about Trump and the election, but rather to concentrate discussion on how him and his incoming Administration might affect our retirement accounts.
The R-leaning big business community seems to be of the view that Trump’s reluctance to tank the economy will modulate policies like tariffs and the expulsion of illegal immigrants. That enough of Trump’s supporters in business will successfully pressure him to “modulate” (word advisors used) his economic policies to not crash the economy, and use threat of tariffs as a negotiating tool and the immigrant expulsions will be more of a demonstration project that’s infeasible to actually expel more than a fraction of them. And that an overwhelming portion of S&P and NASDAQ corporations are on such secular sound economic footing that to the extent your life savings / retirement accounts are tied up in stocks, you are relatively safe. Nonetheless, we spent a fair portion of the session this morning doing worst-case economic fuck-up analysis if a sharp bear market and recession happens. To be fair, our advisors are not at all MAGA, but best characterized as old-school business Rs of the sort who fit right in with Bush the elder.
We have another semi-annual meeting in April and see how well these look-past-the-thorns and see the roses analysis hold up against the harsh abrasion of real events.
KatKapCC
@zhena gogolia: Except your response to his statement about how people there feel about Biden’s leadership was to be snide and childish.
Ukrainians don’t vote in our elections. They did not help Trump get elected. They have been watching their homes and land be destroyed, their people killed, their children terrorized, all while Biden and his team have refused to allow them to fight the way they need to in order to fully defend themselves. They have every right to be upset with him.
And your immediate response was a juvenile little barb. Sure, you care about them so much. Enough to be crass when someone from there tells you how they feel while their people are being blown up every day because we won’t let them give back equally.
zhena gogolia
@KatKapCC: This is why I stay out of the Ukraine threads. Which have been bashing Biden throughout the election campaign.
cain
@Baud: Literally, this could be a tweet from 2 years ago.
Jackie
What position is Tucker Carlson going to be rewarded with? Disgraced Gen. Michael Flynn?
I am numb. Again.
cain
@Baud: ::throws magic 8 ball:: magic 8-balls ‘yep’
zhena gogolia
Biden is history’s greatest monster. At least we can agree on something around here.
tam1MI
Point of order: Biden was ousted before he could succeed or fail. He owes you nothing.
KatKapCC
@zhena gogolia: Oh, get over yourself. I don’t know how old you are, but you need to grow up. The amount of exaggeration you’re having to do here to justify your own position should really tell you that you’re in the wrong. But it seems that you think you are never in the wrong about anything, and neither is Biden. Must be nice.
Whatever. Keep fluffing yourself if it entertains you. I gotta mow the dang lawn.
Steve LaBonne
@cmorenc: I expect they’ll hold up about as well as the expectations of German industrialists in early 1933 held up.
Bill Arnold
@rikyrah:
I’m having a hard time fully believing that the Pete Hegseth selection was serious, rather than a way to make somebody else like Tom Cotton more politically palatable.
The Thin Black Duke
When the price of everything goes up, who you gonna believe? The news or your lying debit card?
CaseyL
@Ridnik Chrome:
I thought he said Eileen Cannon was going to be his AG.
Maybe he asked, and she told him she prefers to be on SCOTUS.
tam1MI
He’s not your leader and hasn’t been since July.
cain
@zhena gogolia:
Not quite. We aren’t blaming biden on anything – but we definitely are unhappy that he’s meeting with Trump and normalizing a fascist. There is absolutely no reason to be friendly to someone plans to demolish the federal govt. Joe is an institutionalist. It’s not seemly to reach out and be buddy buddy like nothing bad is going to happen in 3 months.
Miki
@Baud: Sure it does, otherwise gaslighting wouldn’t work.
Jackie
@zhena gogolia: Mike Johnson says no more American aid:
RevRick
Well, it appears that when all the votes are counted, Trump will end up with 49.9% of the total and his margin over Harris will be 1.5%. Only Kennedy’s win over Nixon in 1960 was closer.
prostratedragon
@Baud: Oh you’re so right!
Miki
@Baud: Yep
Fuck us.
bbleh
@Wyatt Salamanca: @Layer8Problem: I’m starting to think the appointments like Rubio, Hegseth, Gaetz, Gabbard, et al. are part of a Trumpian take on Nixon-Haldeman.
Put a bunch of controversial spotlight hounds out front to excite the rubes and feed the media, and then install #2’s who will ensure that orders are carried out with a minimum of publicity.
if so, wouldn’t be surprised if Reichsführer Miller has a big hand in it.
It’s risky though. It depends on the media playing along with the distraction rather than settling on a “chaos! bad!” narrative, in which case it’ll never stop.
Planetjanet
@zhena gogolia: Amen. Get off Joe’s back for God’s sake.
cmorenc
@Steve LaBonne:
My take was exactly this possibility. The optimist in me hopes it’s wrong, but the realist in me is mighty worried it may prove out just like that.
CaseyL
As I said, you don’t call someone the greatest threat to the country since Hitler and then invite him to tea.
OTOH, after the Party defenestrated him in July, and the country elected to go down the shitter completely last week, I can sorta see Biden echoing H L Mencken in all this.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard
Miki
@Baud: Biden needs to pardon Hunter, sooner rather than later. IMO, there is no downside to love.
Quiltingfool
@rikyrah: I appreciate you. I’m so glad you are here.
cain
@Lapassionara:
We no longer need to care about headlines. This entire disaster is because these papers normalized a fascist. We do not need to worry about what the fuck the american people think about our party. We got it loud and clear on Nov 6th.
I’m not saying Biden needs to act like an asshole. You don’t need to smile, be jovial, or be welcoming. You use your office with sense of solemness. I’d object if Biden was yukking it up with Putin, you need to treat both the same.
cain
@Splitting Image: Apparently, plenty of Democratic voters voted for Trump too.
Lapassionara
@Jeffro: good suggestions.
Miki
@zhena gogolia: No. Not true.
But the ass-licking display today? Yeah – that is his fault.
prostratedragon
@John S.: I’ve just been keeping my mouth shut.
NotMax
Have the feeling Barron is not going to get much enjoyment from his time at NYU.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Mmm. Not so much to blame for blaming’s sake. I’m more interesting in determining who did what when (or did not do), and importantly, why they did or did not do something, in order to learn from mistakes. My earlier comment arose from the final realization and resignation that, as great as President Biden has been (best in my lifetime for several broad areas, hands-down), part of that greatness was due to having institutional norms as a goal unto itself. I think elevating maintenance of norms to that level is a mistake, but if that’s the price to pay for all the good, well, that sucks on any given day, or it worth it on another day. Maybe we think about that some more in order to have a more balanced approach and outcome.
My being resigned to this apparently led to people assuming I was talking about Merrick Garland, which I was not. However, I recognize that it’s no secret that many of us here (including, IIRCC, Betty Cracker, Kay, Adam, and others) felt that, after being told many times by the Administration that, yes, this was an insurrection, there didn’t seem to be a lot of action to rigorously pursue those who appeared to be responsible for it’s planning and execution. Others outside of BJ felt similarly, including people of various legal background (e.g., Lisa Needham at Aaron’s Rupar’s site: https://www.publicnotice.co/p/merrick-garland-failures-explained). FWIW, Needham’s take, though a bit harsh for my taste, is echoed in my circle of con-law attorneys, District Court clerks, and justice reform advocates.
I’m not an anti-Garland person per se (I likely have more of a personal association with the OKC bombing and outcomes than most here, and I’m way more of an institutionalist than many in my circle), regardless of what some seem to assume, but I think it’s useful to try to see clearly what happened and to think about improvements going forward.
Betty Cracker
@Citizen Alan: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms? MTG once stalked and harassed high school shooting survivors, so it would be a “fuck you” on the order of the other appointments.
sab
@rikyrah: I bet you anythimg that he will happily accept government paychecks and flying on DoD airplanes for free.
cain
@Gin & Tonic:
On the domestic front, he was pretty good and handled things wonderfully. But his foreign policy has been a disaster as it pertains to Ukraine and Israel. He did win back NATO people so that’s ok.
His pick for DOJ has resulted in Trump not incarcerated because Merrick Garland was too careful and an institutionalist. He can now watch his beloved DOJ fall into a complete flaming mass of shit. I give him kudos for going after the Jan 6th people, but they are all going to be pardoned and so it has all gone to naught because he couldn’t stop Trump.
UncleEbeneezer
@Old School: The same Garland whose DOJ indicted Trump for 36 felonies, one trial of which was proceeding as of 11/4? That Garland?
RevRick
@RevRick: Since 1900
cain
@Baud:
Axlrod is a shitty centrist. A big disappointment.
Miki
@Anyway: Ditto.
Princess
@zhena gogolia: And the central issue facing our nation right now is, who will head the DNC. At least according to the people on Bsky whom I know. Not sure it’s going to be the effective organizing tool some hope for.
cain
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think being able to show displeasure when someone is smiling and acting jovial to a convicted felon is a bit much and should be beneath his dignity. It certainly isn’t attacking.
Miki
@Jeffro: Uh, no. That ain’t gonna work. IIRC, that’s one of the logical fallacies – appeal to decency.
/s
RaflW
From upthread (not by nym because I’m not trying to make this about any one person):
“Trump is more than an opponent, he is the destroyer of worlds.”
Y’all do what you must, but I will not talk like this. Not yet, anyway. Giving Trump this positional power, IMO, weakens our collective effort. It grants him way more than he’s earned, so I beseech us all to be realistic about all the very bad Cabinet members, evil plans like deportation, etc.
But not grant him some sort of godlike power to ruin everything. It could happen. We could have a very serious nuclear war, for example. But I’m not gonna help that by acting as if a brain damaged, crusty narcissist who is appointing utter incompetents like Kristi Noem as a ‘destroyer of worlds.’ Nope. Not me.
cain
@cmorenc:
Didn’t they use that exact seem reasoning in 2016? I remember hearing such things before.
Betty Cracker
@Miki: That would be a mistake. It would give credibility to the “they’re all equally corrupt” lie.
tam1MI
@cain: Apparently, plenty of Democratic voters voted for Trump too.
I can tell you for a fact that the ones in Dearborn did.
Baud
@RaflW:
Ditto.
It accurately describes his heart, not his power.
Miki
@Gin & Tonic: No pie – 🤗
UncleEbeneezer
On a day when Tulsi is announced as DNI and Gaetz as potential AG, yeah sorry, this is so far down my list of things to gripe about that I can hardly see it.
bbleh
@zhena gogolia: @Planetjanet: UncleEbeneezer: concur. The guy managed getting out of COVID and into an astounding economic recovery, his team accomplished literally DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of other large- and small-scale things that improved ordinary people’s lives ($35 insulin? come ON!) and he did it all with decency and while IMPECCABLY dressed.
The coming sh!tshow is on Republicans, the media, and the Stupids. I ain’t gonna blame Biden or Harris one bit.
cain
@zhena gogolia: This is a completely unfair summary of why we are upset.
“blame” means some kind of “cause and effect”. While, we can all say his foreign policy was conservative at best, I’m not going to kibble about that. Every president has some shitty thing they did in foreign and domestic policy.
I’m only mad about him sitting in a room with trump laughing like he’s some kind of old friend who has come home to tea knowing fully well the rest of us who are his supporters are inconsolable with the loss.
cain
@The Thin Black Duke: Apparently, it might be the news! :D
WaterGirl
@Jeffro: YES!
Quiltingfool
@bluefoot: I am glad you comment here. I want to hear what you and Rickyrah have to say, it’s important.
I’m an old white woman and I know that black women don’t have a shred of trust that white women will do right. They aren’t wrong. Trust has to be earned, and it cannot be demanded, simply because one has done something showy or performative, i.e. “You want a cookie?”
Thing is, I don’t have any trust in white women, either —at least 50 some percent of white women voters, that is. They stabbed ALL women in the back, and now are crying crocodile tears about how they are being shunned. Tough shit, I say.
Have a hypothesis about these white women who think lack of reproductive health care won’t affect them – White Privilege. In their core being, they truly believe doctors won’t let white women die. They simply can’t wrap their minds around the fact that their lady parts determine their worth, not their skin color. They don’t have White Male Privilege is all.
dww44
@zhena gogolia:
Merrick Garland was too timid and, as it turns out, temperamentally unsuited for the job with which he was tasked. He believed in that bottoms up and work your way to the top approach. There was not time for that. If he had had the guts to go after Trump from the get go, just maybe Trump wouldn’t have been able to rehabilitate his reputation so effectively.
Part of this failure can indeed be laid at Biden’s feet. He chose the wrong person for AG. And now we’re gonna have Matt Gaetz as AG so what do you think will happen to all of that integrity restoration that Garland was all about? It won’t survive. I mostly agree with your opinions but not about Garland’s performance as AG. He did NOT meet the moment.
A different approach was needed and an all out effort to hold Trump accountable was worth trying and doing. Both of them underestimated the danger facing the country and the absolute wilful blindness of American voters, who were listening to a screaming and dominant conservative media and a totally cowed for profit MSM, afraid of its own shadow and its corporate owned conservative leaning bosses.
Sure Lurkalot
@tam1MI: Joe Biden is president until 1/21/25. His SOTU speech and campaign speeches communicated clearly the threat against our democracy. He certainly has powers, even apparently a level of immunity, to try to thwart the well stated plans of the future Trump administration in whatever way he can.
And fuck off with the bullshit that Biden doesn’t owe **me** anything because party operatives, the legacy media and wealthy as fuck assholes turned on him. I spent most of the Biden years stupefied that the best president of my lifetime, by far, had approval ratings in the 40’s. I sang his praises to my friends and relatives who didn’t pay attention to any of his against all odds accomplishments.
cain
@RevRick: cool cool.. majority wanted Trump by the slimmest of margins.
RandomMonster
Matt Gaetz as AG? I think I’m gonna puke.
sab
@tam1MI: He’s the guy that thought it was too soon for Obamacare ( we had already waited 100+ years.)
Betty Cracker
Thread needs some Pete.
geg6
@tam1MI:
Maybe that’s how you see it, but he’s still the President. He’s still my leader.
cain
@Miki: Trump will have the DOJ investigate him. I don’t think he can get away with it.
Harrison Wesley
@David Anderson: He’s perfect.
pajaro
@gene108:
Biden shouldn’t get a war chest. He should pardon himself, his kid, and give a blanket amnesty for anyone working for him, as well as the Republicans like Liz and Kinsinger that Trump has threatened. More seriously, given the Supreme Court immunity decision, Biden is not at risk, but everyone around him is.
sab
@CaseyL: She needs to keep her lifetime appointment to the bench.
lowtechcyclist
@rikyrah:
If they replace the top 50,000 Federal workers, starting with the actual political appointees, then the people in the Senior Executive Service, then by GS rank starting at 15 and working down, they might not have to do anything special to the statistical agencies to make things eventually grind to a halt.
Miki
@stinger: Apparently we’re collateral damage, so not important.
Liberal/Progressive/Democratic Vets have been fighting this battle for-fucking-ever.
Sad. Stupid. Infuriating.
dww44
@Jeffro:
Thank you. Our democracy deserves every action you propose.
RaflW
@Wyatt Salamanca: Ah, I see the NYT calls this appointment “Provocative.”
I’m gonna go with “Imbecilic and Repulsive”. He’s a reckless guy and a crazed pick, thus he will not get the best minds in conservative law to come work for him. It’s gonna be a flaming mess at DoJ. I’d expect insane levels of both overreach and knife fight level internal chaos.
tam1MI
@Betty Cracker: Awwwww…
Archon
@zhena gogolia: Everything is not Biden’s fault but I do have some pointed questions and critiques about some of the choices he has made pre and post-election.
catclub
@Ridnik Chrome:
Republicans run on “Government doesn’t work and if you elect us we will prove it.”
Trump is picking the absolute worst people to force the senate to be complicit, as a loyalty test.
Next asking what color the sky is.
catclub
all sounds good to the Russian handlers.
NotMax
@RaflW
“It’s the best [fill in the blank] in history. We don’t need no es-stinking statistics..”
brantl
“A brazen criminal who should have been disqualified from ever holding office again was able to slither back into power thanks to the failure of “norms and institutions.”
Nope, it was due to Republicans lacking a spine, decency and honesty. It can’t be laid at anyone else’s feet, the useless sons-of-bitches are treasonous bastards. And as useless a pile of buzzard puke that the Republicans were during the Nixon administration, these current jagoffs make those jagoffs look like Einstein and Mother Teresa all rolled into one.
catclub
why not both?
brantl
@Wyatt Salamanca: This can all be laid to Gerald R. Ford. If he hadn’t pardoned that sumbitch Nixon, they never would have had the courage to do this shit.
Jackie
@Betty Cracker: We need Pete AND Badger!
What a great pic!🥰
Quiltingfool
@Gin & Tonic: I agree with you on Ukraine. We did not do enough, we did not support Ukrainians in trusting them to fight the way they needed to.
My heart breaks for the people of Ukraine. And for you and yours.
Slava Ukraini, my friend.
lowtechcyclist
@zhena gogolia:
Cripes, I had to google Gabbard. That happened while I was taking an afternoon nap. DNI, huh?
Yeah, it’s like each pick is trying to outdo the previous ones now. Defense, DNI, now AG.
brantl
@KatKapCC: Sure, go high. Kick them in the throat, not the knee.
Miki
@Betty Cracker: I think Hunter’s prosecution was corrupt.
I’m a lapsed lawyer and usually support the rule of law, kind of as an absolutist. But this time, with the power the office affords, my moral compass says pardoning a corrupt prosecution of Joe Biden’s family, in this case, is righteous.
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
Further whittling down any R majority in the House.
Keep it going.
Quiltingfool
Posted from below:
We’d really like to see President Biden call Trump a fucking asshole to his face.
Sure, it would make us feel better for Democratic leaders to act exactly like Republicans.
That is a “win the battle” play. That is a “show your cards” play. That is not a “win the war” strategy. Never, ever, show your hand, or let them know what you’re thinking. No matter that it makes you feel momentarily vindicated.
I’m saying this knowing that I will get scorched here. I understand we are devastated and we want our leaders to show us they know our pain and they will strike out for us. But that is, ultimately, not going to amount to a hill of beans here on out.
We may have already lost the war. I don’t know, none of us do. Perhaps the world has changed so much that our normal way of thinking about things doesn’t work anymore. Thing is, whether we’ve lost or we are in a holding pattern, we need to be smart about things.
Never show your cards, never announce your intentions; instead, hit ‘em in the back of the head with a brick when they least expect it. (Metaphorically speaking, of course).
Jackie
@catclub: Even if the Senate doesn’t confirm TCFG’s choices, he’ll appoint them (ALL OF THEM) as “Acting.” No confirmations needed.
lowtechcyclist
@zhena gogolia:
This. Whether or not Biden said ‘congratulations’ to Hair Furor is down in the white noise. At this particular moment in history, I just don’t give 1/1000 of a fuck about it. Too many other things to worry about.
dc
@Quiltingfool:
As necessary.
UncleEbeneezer
@cain: Incarcerated? Even if DOJ somehow magically got Trump to trial in only 3 years (which would have been lightning speed for a complex criminal trial with so many privilege issues that needed to be litigated even before going to trial) there’s no way he would’ve been convicted, sentenced and incarcerated before the 2024 Election. You think this Supreme Court would allow a Presidential candidate (the one who gave them their seats on SCOTUS) to be put in jail during an election cycle? What color is the sky in your world…
rikyrah
I wonder all the Village who sanewashed Bill Barr last time are going to do the same with Gaetz?
hmmmmm
The choice of him is so preposterous. I mean absolutely ridiculous.
There are a lot of actual Republican lawyers that I would absolutely hate what they did, but, whose appointment isn’t absurd.
RaflW
@Baud: This Kuo guy seems smart (I’m being serious).
Thune will be in over his head in a jiffy. I’d expect there to be chaos in trying to fend even the parts of government the GOP wants. This is where I want Democrats to step aside and, like Obama, say “Please proceed, Leader Thune” while every agency goes dark and we ALL know it’s the Republicans in charge.
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: I agree. May the American people get what they voted for. Good and hard.
Anyway
@NotMax: I think there’ll be enough fellow students sucking up to POTUS’ son. Sadly It’s all about wealth and celebrity to the insta crowd.
Gretchen
@geg6: Trump promised a Muslim group in Michigan that he would call for a ceasefire the day after the election. Now they’re asking why he hasn’t done it yet. Because he’s a lying liar. Harris did call for a ceasefire but they didn’t believe her.
Trollhattan
@lowtechcyclist:
The brain drain from our sciency agencies starting in 2017 was severe and I doubt we’ve recovered to a significant degree. This will be Outmigration II, I can’t take this a second time.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax: Gabbard’s not still in the House, is she?
Miki
@cain: SCOTUS gave him absolute immunity for pardons – Trump’s DOJ can’t do shit.
Old School
@zhena gogolia: Gabbard isn’t, but Gaetz is.
RaflW
@gene108: “Will people believe inflation is because of Trump’s tariffs or mass deportations?”
They may reject it in a propaganda sort of way, but one of the most durable things about American governance (and maybe other countries) is that the citizens give the current party and person ‘in charge’ both too much credit, and way more than enough blame. That’s not gonna change, even in a deeply polluted information environment.
eg: If the GOP tanks ACA protections, medical bankruptcies, home reposessions and all of that will spike. Even if the news biz gets supressed out of reporting it, everyone will come to know a person close to them who has endured such a thing. It can’t be dissapeared.
Omnes Omnibus
@cain: I was here for July. I have a pretty good idea of where the conversation is going. I don’t need to be here for it.
Jackie
@zhena gogolia: NotMax is referring to Gaetz.
Steve LaBonne
@rikyrah: FTFNYT says the appointment is “provocative”, so there’s your answer.
Baud
I wonder if everyone here has cut all the Trumpers out of their lives.
Steve LaBonne
@RaflW: I’m surprised he feels any uncertainty. They will fold like a cheap suit. Maybe before they even start getting death threats, but those will certainly be arranged if necessary.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Haven’t had any since I retired, and being around those coworkers was involuntary.
WaterGirl
You guys are wearing me down as badly as the news itself is. Somebody call me when you’re ready to stop bashing each other and all the Democrats who failed us. We’ll deserve the bashing we get for turning on Dems just when we need to be united against what’s coming.
LadySuzy
@zhena gogolia: It’s all about the tactical nukes. The Biden administration has put the chances of Putin using them at 50/50. Who knows what kind of info they have. Who knows if their assessment is correct. It’s a hell of a dilemma. Allowing US missiles to bomb the territory of Russia would help Ukraine tremendously in the short term but what if all hell breaks loose after that ? Putin is not a rational player I’m afraid.
I will add that since the beginning, I’ve been wondering if one of the other worries of the Biden administration is China’s potential reaction if the US allows Ukrainians to use US missiles to bomb facilities within Russia. China doesn’t want the US to gain more influence in Europe. China is not Ukraine’s friend.
What’s happening is an absolute tragedy. Heart-breaking. But there is no easy solution.
And with the election of Trump, I’m even more worried now for the Ukrainian people.
prostratedragon
@gene108: Someone like Krugman would also be concerned about the corruption of the data series going forward. Makes harder to say definitively what was going on.
Steve LaBonne
@WaterGirl: As always, thank you.
Jackie
@Baud: I’m proud to report that to my knowledge, I don’t have any Trumpers in my life.
WaterGirl
Senator Warren has stepped up, and crickets. I’ll put up a post about that tomorrow. Clearly most of the people commenting aren’t up for hearing anything constructive today.
Splitting Image
@Baud:
All but the one co-worker. I’d be let go if I told her what I think of her.
We’ve had one group meeting since the election and the team leader mentioned the election then immediately changed the subject. There is a chance that she will take the hint.
sab
@Baud: Mostly I have, and I am studiously avoiding likely Trumpers.
Mended fences with my brother at Dad’s funeral this year, but I have every intention of minimizing contact with him to almost non-existence for the rest of my life.
But I am a mostly retired extreme introvert, so cutting off problematic people isn’t even a challenge. The opposite is the challenge. I have decided I am too old and too tired to deal with people I find appalling. But that is just me.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: People who spent the last year shitting on Biden, still shitting on Biden. News at 11…
Fair Economist
@WaterGirl: I am totally up for not bashing Democrats!
Gretchen
@KatKapCC: you’re not helping by joining the circular firing squad.
Gretchen
@WaterGirl: This. One reason we have trouble winning is that so many of our own spend their energy pissing inside the tent.
Jackie
Gag me with a spoon.
With the required furrowed brow.
Harrison Wesley
@WaterGirl: Might it be worthwhile for people to spend some time looking at state and local issues? While there may not be any game changers, I don’t find them as overwhelming as national ones.
rikyrah
@RaflW:
So, they haven’t learned anything.
Phuck them
different-church-lady
Biden is not trying to model adult behavior.
Biden is engaging in adult behavior.
SiubhanDuinne
@motoran:
🎶Pie, pie, gonna bake a pie…🎶
different-church-lady
@rikyrah:
…like a fox.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@WaterGirl: Same. I skim it and move on. At the end of the day, I think these people want to lash out because they’re hurt, angry, and feel helpless. They want to believe that we could have won. It’s partly the bargaining stage of grief.
different-church-lady
@Jackie: Goddamn, that woman is a fool.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
If they didn’t get that in July, they ain’t gonna get it now.
RaflW
I agree, @Jeffro. Some senators, like Cruz or Tuberville, are total lost causes. But they aren’t all happily MAGA. Many of them got into gov’t way before Trump and while they may seek to avoid some of his wrath, I’d wager that many of them hate him most cordially. Find ways to peel them off on issues they may still care about (they didn’t all come to D.C. just to grift, even if it feels that way sometimes).
The House is going to be on a knife edge. Don Bacon is going to be in the hot seat a ton. Maybe his constituents can stiffen his spine rather than just excoriate him endlessly. Just a possibly naive thought.
different-church-lady
Now me, I’m looking forward to the legalization of underage sex.
/s with extreme prejudice
HeleninEire
@Betty Cracker: Hi Pete!
sab
@different-church-lady: YES.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Baud: I have not. Partly, its because that’s basically most of my family. Partly because I want them to know someone their vote impacts and harms. I want them to be forced to witness it.
lowtechcyclist
@LadySuzy:
I can’t say I’ve seen evidence that he’s particularly irrational. And he knows that, ten weeks from now, his puppet will be running the U.S.A. Total win for him. Why would he risk that by firing nukes? He’d have to be nutty as a fruitcake.
As far as China goes, what exactly would they do? Again, given the total change of power that’s coming up. Xi’s smart enough to know that there won’t be the usual continuity in U.S. policy from one Administration to the next. Hell, once Trump’s in charge, there might not be continuity from one moment to the next.
JaySinWA
@different-church-lady:
Got yourself some sweet alter boys in your sights? /s back at you.
RaflW
@catclub: I think this is the core issue with Trump. And all these absolutely idiotic and horrible appointments are very rapidly telegraphing to our NATO allies as well as friendly (up to now) nations in other regions that we will be a deeply unserious and even ridiculous player on the world stage.
Which is exactly what Putin wants. He has wanted to take US power down a bunch of notches basically forever. The US being a foreign power/policy laughinstock is such a huge gift (or, really, payment on a very very large personal debt).
Betty
@Baud: They both need to away, far, far away!!
Sister Golden Bear
@Trollhattan:
The irony is that most of the areas at high risk from devestating wildfires are the Trumpiest parts of the state.
RaflW
@WaterGirl: Thank you.
mrmoshpotato
@Sister Golden Bear:
I feel sorry for all of the natural beauty that’s going to unnecessarily burn over the next 4 years.
Betty
@Baud: Rahm is a bigger one than Axelrod.
Gin & Tonic
@LadySuzy: China may not be Ukraine’s friend, but neither are they their enemy. China has substantial agricultural interests in Ukraine.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@RevRick:
Well, it appears that when all the votes are counted, Trump will end up with 49.9% of the total and his margin over Harris will be 1.5%. Only Kennedy’s win over Nixon in 1960 was closer.
Butbutbutbut, Our Media Betters are telling us this represents a massive rightward shift of the ‘Murkin electorate. /s
Ruckus
@Sister Golden Bear:
As much as we all might think burning this down is necessary, it is still, as all actual human beings know, and even if they despise saying it, is wrong.
I almost wish I didn’t have to say that, but I do like being on the better side. Doesn’t mean I, in any way, shape or form have to like saying it.
Sister Golden Bear
@WaterGirl: Thank you.
Ruckus
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
One truth always stands out.
Our Media Betters really, really, really are often so much fucking worse.
They can be seduced by position, power, their bosses, money, a lively hood…..
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
We’ll deserve the bashing we get for turning on Dems just when we need to be united against what’s coming.
ABSOLUTELY THIS!!!!
I left out one word in my comment because this is not a time for swearing.
Or is it?
Ruckus
@LadySuzy:
ALL of this. Every word.
Sister Golden Bear
@Ruckus: I’ve no desire to burn things down. After all think of the natural beauty and cute wildlife that will be lost.
My point is that there’s gonna be FAFO in CA’s red counties if we have a bad fire season.
karen marie
@CaseyL: I saw the photo of Trump and Biden seated and shaking hands. I saw one of Trump’s fingers extended over the back of Biden’s hand in a show of dominance.
“Norms” can fuck right off.
prostratedragon
@Jeffro: Releasing as much info as possible was my first thought. Also a tone-setting farewell address.
Kathleen
@zhena gogolia: Bernie woulda waved the magic wand!
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
I use the VA for my health care, I was there yesterday for a lunch event. A lot of the veterans I see wear hats. Likely older and with less hair to keep off the sun on their mostly bereft of hair heads. (ask me how I know about that….)
In and Out provided the food with their on site meal truck.
Lots of heads with hats, including mine, and I didn’t see one maga hat. And I use the largest Los Angeles VA health care location and actually expected to see at least one. Nada uno.
Dan B
@Jeffro: Great ideas for pushback by Biden! It feels like some of these can be done by congress. Time to call Patty Murray, Maria Cantwell, and Adam Smith – my Rep and Senators.
Chris Johnson
@RaflW: Not even (or, rather, ‘yes and’).
This makes one thing absolutely clear. Trump does not have a single trusted loyal Republican ally other than people who are literal Russian assets or kompromat targets of the most extreme variety.
This is shocking.
It’s like he has no loyalists on his own side at all. It would be so easy to appoint trusted Republican experts and qualified people who’re still down for one party rule.
He is not. He has ONLY wildly unqualified lunatics and degenerates and there seems to be not a single example of an actually appropriate, capable person for any of it. They are ALL useless vatniks who can’t pour piss out of a boot, but cannot disobey Putin. Not Trump, not the party: Putin.
Buckle in. Kansas is going bye-bye. Republicans want power, not THIS.
Bupalos
@Chris: the mistake was in relying on that approach in the first place. “You have no choice if you want to preserve democracy than to vote for me” is one of those true things that you should not say.
Biden has no choice here. Even when your political opponent treats you as an enemy, you have to treat him as an opponent. There is so obviously no upside to Biden following through on “democracy is over” like people seem to want here. Don’t be stupid. Making Trump feel welcomed back to the club of respectables while boosting democracy is the ONLY play available.
I’m glad I spent a full month or 6 weeks depressed about this election before it happened. After the shock wore off, my main emotion has been mildly pleasant surprise that Trump is busy setting up a complete shitshow of a circus. I was pretty sure he’s congenitally incapable of effective administration and this weird hodge-podge is the best possible outcome. Gabbard at DNI is the only one that really bugs me, because she will literally just blab.
Slightly_peeved
Does anyone think Biden shaking his hand is going to matter days from now, let alone months or years? Trump being a disaster for democracy is going to become perfectly apparent in its own regardless of how Democrats treat him.
Let the old guy be civil to Trump, especially given the chances Trump will make up something to arrest him for.
Dan B
@WaterGirl: You need a break. Many of us need a break. The commenters here who are highly vulnerable need a break and need a place to discuss solutions and strategies. Plus pet pictures!!!
Radio Dave
@stinger: As a fellow Vet and Harris & Clinton voter, Concur
Slightly_peeved
@rikyrah:
Given what happened to Biden and then Harris, I think the New York Times learned exactly the lesson we wouldn’t want from all this.
brantl
@motoran: You’re an idiot. Go find your little pointy cap, and remember to keep it on.
Timill
@Slightly_peeved: Biden needs to issue pardons for all federally elected Ds for the last 10 years, cabinet members, and prosecutors.
Then he needs to step aside for Harris, who can do the same for him.
brantl
@zhena gogolia: No, he had the shitty people then, now he’s got the REALLY shitty people.
Kayla Rudbek
@Baud: I don’t know what to do about my parents. It is a damned good thing that they are still a long distance across the continent from me and my sibling. At this point it may be one visit to clear out my childhood possessions and then tell them to go to hell.
brantl
@Gin & Tonic: “Feel free to pie me”; thanks, I will. Joe Biden has certain abilities as president, passing appropriations is not one of them.
John S.
@Dan B:
I agree. But it’s hard to discuss solutions when people can’t even agree on what the problems actually are.
Somehow, any form of retrospection has been deemed caustic and unnecessary. Until that changes, good luck coming up with solutions.
Stacy
There’s a Dem primary 11/16 in my state senate district to fill Suhas Subramanyam’s seat after he won his congressional race. I’m voting for my state house delegate who’s been endorsed by Suhas and also by Abigail Spanberger who will be the Dem candidate for Virginia governor in fall 2025. My daughter is even coming home from college to vote. And the beat goes on.
brantl
@UncleEbeneezer: Bingo! A dose of reality!
brantl
@Baud: I don’t have really any of them in my life. My in-laws are at best queasy Stumpettes. And I’ll never talk politics with them again. It’s like mud wrestling with a pig.
brantl
@Jackie: And watch the bitch vote for him, anyway: “I’m certain he’s learned his lesson…”
planetjanet
@KatKapCC:
Your treatment of Zhena is really repulsive.
planetjanet
@WaterGirl:
Thank you, for your sanity. This piling on Democrats is obscene.
Ruckus
@geg6:
I am a veteran. Sure it was a long time ago but I was a democrat long before I could vote at 21. And have been every damn day since.
I believe, knowing a few vets, that not all vets want shitforbrains. Sure some will, he did get elected didn’t he? I ask because of the splendid job he didn’t do last time and wonder how and why anyone would vote for him, but then I think back to some of the people I’ve met from all around this country and realize that many people really do not want a democracy, because that allows people they don’t approve of to live, vote, and win elections so that the country we could be living in gets destroyed. And NO, I can’t explain it in any way, shape or form, because it makes not one tiny bit of sense whatsoever. (I left out most of the swearing I would normally say in the above, especially considering shitforbrains, who I likely should start calling shitwithoutbrains)
Ruckus
@cain:
It is part of Joe Biden’s job to explain to the next in line, voted for by enough citizens to elect him.
Besides, most/all of it is going to be ignored by shitwithoutbrains because that’s who he is.
IOW Joe is doing what he is supposed to do, what the job requires. And I’d bet it burns him far, far more than it does you. Or me.
Ruckus
@cain:
Joe Biden has been a Democrat for a very long time and has been a politician for a very long time.
Part of that job is being the leader of the entire country. Even for the people that hate him because he’s not their choice. I’ve stated here before that I’ve owned 2 rather different companies and I made a lot of very high precision parts and tools in my time and worked full time in professional sports for 10 yrs. I’ve had to smile for people I’d rather not have had to even talk to at all. It’s sometimes part of the job, just not being the asshole you really, really feel like being. Joe Biden has a job that at least should require that, even though it does not. But Joe Biden is a good human and he, I’d bet, knows that sometimes you smile not because you are happy but because you don’t want to make the other person happy. By showing them how you feel about their dumb, stupid ass. It’s a skill, and he’s very good at it, like it’s second nature. I at least had to work at it some days….
Ruckus
@Quiltingfool:
Bravo!
We humans, some far more than others, often (some far more than others) don’t look at life with any concept other than ME ME ME ME….. We are creatures, born, raised and live, based upon our learning and our own self worth and our own experiences. And sometimes that means selfish and often to the nth degree.
Gin & Tonic
@brantl:
“Passing appropriations” has nothing to do with allowing Ukraine to hit military targets inside russia with weapons supplied by European countries – something that Biden has prevented.
Ramona
@Wyatt Salamanca: Heck, I remember the night of January 6 2021 when McConnell said that he would not call the Senate back into session to receive impeachment articles from the House and then to turn around and say Trump could not be impeached because he was no longer President. McConnell is the author of all this rottenness. Trump might well not have won in 2016 if evangelicals had not rallied to win a SCOTUS seat!
Ramona
@Jeffro: Hear, hear!
And pardon Hunter!
By gum!
Ruckus
@Baud:
I have zero in mine.
Ruckus
@sab:
It’s not just you.
Shitforbrains has crapped all over this nation – and actually been caught at it. But. Some people will always like that because some people will always want whatever they think will be best for them and worse for everyone else and most of them have zero idea what is best for anything or anyone – including themselves.
I used to call this head up own ass but really I think their heads are up someone else’s. Might be someone we discuss here regularly – with distain I might add. I didn’t come up with the moniker lightly.
planetjanet
@Ruckus:
Thank you for this, Ruckus. Being an adult is hard sometimes. Biden is doing to hard part. Yes, it would be much more emotionally satisfying to throw a pie in his face. But then the story would be about Biden for the next epoch and not the actual harmful things that the president elect is doing. I am so tired of the “you’re not doing it right” caucus when we have Orcs at the door.
The Lodger
@bbleh: I don’t think Jeffrey Clark is out of a job yet either. Maybe he will have to wait till after 1/20.
brantl
@Gin & Tonic: Yep, because Nutjob Putznik might just start a nuclear conflagration.
Pittsburgh Mikeq
Sorry, there *is* a difference between Trump’s victory and Putin’s — Putin stole his election and for that matter, murdered his opponents who didn’t just go away. Maybe Trump wishes he could do that, but actually won a fair and free election, both the popular vote and the EC vote.
I don’t like it, but that’s the way it is.
WaterGirl
@Pittsburgh Mikeq: A fair and square election where millions of people made their choice based on deliberate misinformation campaigns.
How free and fair is that?