Punchbowl was founded by people who thought Politico was too stodgy & fact-oriented, so: This take *may* be a little too conspiratorial. On the other hand, treating governmental appointments less as a matter of process than as a get-out-of-jail-free card is very much the Trump model…
Mike Johnson says Matt Gaetz has already resigned from Congress
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.bsky.social) November 13, 2024 at 7:04 PM
Maybe deep-sixing the ethics investigation was the whole point.
— Jack Pitney (@jpitney) November 14, 2024
I was originally going to hold off on commenting on nominations at this stage but I cannot stay quiet here. I don’t need a confirmation hearing to know that Matt Gaetz is not qualified for Attorney General. I will not support his confirmation. https://t.co/Uv3AzuYnSk
— Andy Kim (@AndyKimNJ) November 13, 2024
Kevin McCarthy on Matt Gaetz: “I'll give you the truth why I'm not speaker. It's because one person, a member of Congress, wanted me to stop an ethics complaint because he slept with a 17-year-old…” pic.twitter.com/tS5eGlPatf
— Republicans against Trump (@RpsAgainstTrump) November 13, 2024
Same, John. Good news is Gaetz is America’s foremost expert on things that are barely legal.
— JEHawks (@jehawks) November 13, 2024
Markwayne Mullin: "We had all seen the videos [Matt Gaetz] was showing on the House floor… of the girls that he had slept with. He’d brag about how he would crush ED medicine and chase it with an energy drink so he could go all night." pic.twitter.com/OgemFnC8kM
— Blue Georgia (@BlueATLGeorgia) November 13, 2024
Wow! Thanks for passing along this spin to make him look good. We won’t hear from you when he votes to confirm. https://t.co/4G1gR48VjF
— BIG T little hommy (@scooniepenn) November 13, 2024
Gaetz apparently has the glibertarian [age of consent laws are anti-freedom] vote, though…
GOP Massie says “recess appointments” when asked if GAETZ can get confirmed by the Senate
“He’s the Attorney General. Suck it up!” pic.twitter.com/zTTpQB9NAx
— haleytalbotcnn (@haleytalbotcnn) November 13, 2024
Counter-argument, from authoritarian truffle-pig Marc Caputo, at the Bulwark — “Donald Trump Is Dead Serious About Getting Matt Gaetz to DOJ”:
Of all the lawyers Trump interviewed to be his next attorney general, the Florida congressman checked the most boxes. Gaetz is a loyal, longtime adviser, an acid-tongued debate champ, and—perhaps most important to the oft-investigated former and future president—an aggrieved target of the feds. Gaetz was the subject of a federal sex-crime probe that he survived and labeled a Deep State fix.
As Trump began formulating the type of individual he wanted atop the DOJ, he was drawn to those attributes and to the idea that Gaetz would help him investigate the investigators…
In Trump’s mind, there is no more important post than attorney general, both because of the sheer number of federal investigations and indictments he’s weathered since leaving office and his conviction that he was let down by feckless or non-loyal AGs when he served as president. In choosing Gaetz, Trump signaled just how much he trusts the 42-year-old from Florida’s 1st Congressional District at the western edge of the state’s panhandle.
The pick was so audacious that it prompted immediate speculation that Gaetz was actually playing the role of a sacrificial lamb—there to give Republican senators a nominee to tank so that they would have cover to vote yes on other cabinet selections, themselves a mix of respected lawmakers, television personalities, ideological apostates and political allies.
But those familiar with Trump’s thinking say he’s deadly serious about getting Gaetz in at DOJ. He has faith in Gaetz’s abilities to think through legal and political problems strategically. And both men have hinted that they will try and work around the Senate should confirmation there become too big a hurdle. Sources familiar with the matter say that Gaetz was among the Trump advisers who advocated for him to pressure those vying to be Senate majority leader into agreeing to allow recess appointments for Trump’s picks…
“At the very least, the Senate hearings are gonna be amazing TV,” said a former Trump White House adviser who spoke on condition of anonymity because he opposed the Gaetz pick. “I’m not a fan. I don’t see the win.”…
It’s hardly a win for the Republican party, but of course Trump would assume that anyone who gets him more TV time is a win for Trump personally. And it’s not as though Trump really cares whether Gaetz survives the confirmation hearing; he’s getting attention for Trump at this moment, which is all Trump really cares about.
They should all be worried that if confirmed he’ll go after them anyway. https://t.co/NJA3ECYBvQ
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 13, 2024
Well…one of these two (Gaetz and Gabbard) is the loyalty test nominee and the other is the sacrificial lamb. It's up to the chairs of the Judiciary and Intelligence committees to decide which is which.
— Luke Watson (@LukeWatsonCMF) November 13, 2024
War for Ukraine Day 994: A Brief Wednesday Night Update
Splitting Image
They are right that a lot of Republicans won’t vote to confirm this guy. Specifically, Collins, Murkowski, and…? Who’s going to audition for the role of reasonable moderate now that Romney is leaving? Ted Cruz?
mrmoshpotato
Didn’t need to know that detail about Pedo Gaetz from Bubba Bo Bob Markwayne.
My apologies to the writers of Pinky and the Brain.
Chris Johnson
Heh.
So since it’s directly on thread topic…
I think it’s worth asking WHY every single Trump appointee is a useless vatnik that couldn’t pour piss out of a jackboot.
Has he no loyal Republican volunteers? Does he not have ONE real Republican that he trusts with whatever his real intentions are? Surely his intentions are not so completely obviously ruinous that the only people he can possibly trust with them are useless vatniks that couldn’t pour piss out of a jackboot?
mrmoshpotato
@Splitting Image: Given it will be winter in Texass, Shithead Ted will probably have fled to Cancun.
Splitting Image
@Chris Johnson:
I think the answer is probably that most of the GOP in Congress are bought and paid for by the sort of elitist snobs that looked down their nose at Trump when he merely a New York slumlord, and they are still looking down their nose at him.
They’ll ally with him for the tax cuts and deregulation, but if their long term career goal is to retire from Congress and become a lobbyist, “long-time Trump ally” is still a skidmark on their CVs when they meet up with the real money guys.
Jay
Keep in mind, that if you ever feel like you are a failure,
Matt Gaetz got his first High School Girlfriend at age 40.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Splitting Image: That’s the thing with deals with the devil; sooner or later, the bill comes due.
ColoradoGuy
49.9% of the American voters voted for maximum drama, and that’s what they’re going to get. They can’t tell the difference between Reality TV and reality, so they get a President who scripts for maximum effect. And that’s just fine with media empires based in New York and Los Angeles.
We were warned by GWB’s staffers that they create reality, and the rest of us just get to watch.
TBone
A beloved uncle taught me to do “magic” tricks when I was a child – he even took me out for a special day of shopping at a magic store in Philly to get some new tricks.
I tell this story today to remind people about sleight of hand. Look at this shiny, pretty (or shocking) thing over here! While you’re distracted, I can do my “magic” right under your nose and you won’t see it.
Not related to this post in particular, just a general Public Service Announcement. (Maybe related a little bit though.)
Beloved uncle also taught me to juggle.
Rusty
Let’s dispense with this fiction that there is some Republican establishment that continues to look down their nose at Trump. That is our press yet again giving Republicans an excuse for their behavior. Republicans have agency, and have proven their support for Trump by their actions, endorsing, voting for and protecting Trump at every turn. The list of cabinet deplorables isn’t because less obviously insane Republicans turned down offers to serve, they would have done it if asked. It’s because Washington, and Trump in particular, operates at the level of culture of a middle school. Trump is the queen bee popular kid who can identify the weird, excluded classmates that crave attention and belonging. They will do anything to sit at lunch with the poplar kids. Trump senses that and knows they will be completely loyal and never question what is asked.
sab
The way to get ahead in Trump world seems to be to be a sexual predator of girls and young women. And a lot of white women voting don’t seem to have a problem with that.
As an elderly white woman I am very angry but not the least bit surprised.
Gloria DryGarden
@TBone: i think we’ll need to ask ourselves what the purple turtle is meant to distract us from. On a regular basis.
yikes
The Thin Black Duke
The presidential election was a mirror, so America shouldn’t get angry at what it sees.
sab
@The Thin Black Duke: As an older person I have to agree with you. I kept hoping we would turn a corner to be who we really are, but we are already who we really are. But every country has its political minority who hopes for better. Sometimes it works. So I am still hoping, but hoping for the same things in a different context.
TBone
@Gloria DryGarden: 👍
TBone
@The Thin Black Duke: I’m angry that Putin “won” the election.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke:
@sab:
Agreed.
sab
@Jay: Matt Gaetz is the ultimate failson. High power political dad protected him so far. What a waste of a life (dad’s.) All that power and influence spent on protecting your toxic twerp.
TBone
We’re not in Oz, Toto 🎶😔
The Coup is representing my mood this morning.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=acT_PSAZ7BQ
Shalimar
Of everything in all of the stories and tweets you pulled from, that one stands out to me the most. One, Republican media interviewing is basically learning to gish gallup over people and lie about everything. Yeah, a sociopath like Gaetz excels at those skills.
Two, that is not the same as debating. Gaetz has never been in anything other than a safe seat at state and Congressional levels. He has never been in an actual debate for his government job. How do we know he’s good at it?
MagdaInBlack
I’m starting to get the hang of waking up screaming into the void.
Shalimar
@Jay: That isn’t fair. Gaetz was a college frat boy. I’m sure he started getting high school girls drunk then.
TBone
@sab: comment from elsewhere:
Neither did I. It’ll get much worse is the only thing I’m counting on for certain.
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: that also describes my 3am wakeup perfectly. Gah!
Shalimar
There will not be confirmation hearings for Gaetz. All the contents of the report he just avoided would come out. Massie is right, the Senate will go into recess on January 21st and Gaetz will be recess-appointed as soon after that as you’re supposed to wait for it to be legal.
edit: This works for anyone else they don’t want Senate Republicans on record voting for too. Dictator/President Trump doesn’t need Congress to govern the way he wants.
sab
@MagdaInBlack: Yes so much. Thank God I have cats who only think about cat issues (I need to pee on the bathroom counter because I have issues the humans haven’t addressed.)
ETA Thinking about it I see their point.
Shalimar
@sab: Time to put those crystals that change colors on ever surface.
I bought a bag in case one of the cats starts sounding ill, but I haven’t used it yet.
TBone
I’m seeing talk of our sanctuary cites being flipped into “freedom cities.” Amy McGrath last night: “Don’t let a lack of imagination about what these people have planned leave you under-prepared; do not underestimate.” (Paraphrased.)
sab
@Shalimar: That is a good thought. Several of our many cats are getting old. And very hostile to vet trips.
sab
@TBone: I believe Maya Angelou so I believe McGrath.
TBone
@sab: me too.
montanareddog
Did some digging on Butthead’s Wikipedia page: he was admitted to the Florida bar in Feb 2008, and worked for 2 years in a private law firm until winning a special election to the Florida House in April 2010.
I wonder what it is about his vast legal experience that led to Trump to nominate him for AG?
TBone
My former Congressman, Joe Sestak (also a vet) weighs in at the Inky today:
https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/trump-election-second-term-expectations-20241114.html
(DelCo was as red as they come before it turned blue – I used to march into Sestak’s Media, PA office and leave notes):
columbusqueen
@Shalimar: It seems to me there’s a good chance that ethics report will be leaked. Matty boy has a lot of enemies in the House who would welcome the opportunity to torpedo him.
Kay
If the country is depending on the integrity and adherence to the rule of law of ONE person – the AG – then institutions have failed and the rule of law as a norm is already gone.
They should confirm Gaetz. The US justice system has already collapsed anyway. I let it go several years ago. It pains me as a lawyer to say this, but lawyers failed. We weren’t strong enough.
Quinerly
Sen. Graham (R-SC) pleaded with fellow Republicans to back Donald Trump’s choice as attorney general, Matt Gaetz, after initially sounding skeptical about the bombshell pick.
Appearing on Fox News’ Hannity on Wednesday, Graham said: “To every Republican, give Matt a chance.”
Geminid
Ohio Rep. Max Miller has served two years with Gaetz, and he is more sceptic than fan:
From Georgia-based “OSINT Defender.” They usually aggregate breaking Middle East conflict news, but Gaetz’s nomination is drawing attention from all over. So is Tulsi Gabbard’s.
TBone
@Kay: is he the shiny object that will be replaced at the last minute by someone worse, I wonder.
Kay
@TBone:
The existence of the rule of law can’t depend wholly on one election or it is already gone.
Republicans were going to win eventually, so this was inevitable.
Quinerly
@TBone:
I don’t think so. I think Gaetz will be a recess appointment.
There was reporting that he wasn’t on any list for the job. One of Trump’s personal attorneys was at the top of the list. Reporting that Gaetz rode with Trump on his plane leaving DC yesterday. They talked most of the trip. At the end of the trip, Gaetz tweeted he was being nominated
ETA….supposedly Blanche had been at the top of the list before the plane ride. Now looks like Blanche being considered for a deputy position.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/13/politics/todd-blanche-deputy-attorney-general-trump/
TBone
@Kay: well when I watched Judge Luttig’s face when he got the news live on MSNBC about the Supremacists Court ruling and said here that we may have already lost, I started a dogpile shitstorm.
Nevertheless, I remain staunchly hopeful. Because of our ability to kill fascism in the past and because to live any other way is impossible for me.
TBone
@Quinerly: he never lies!
Splitting Image
@Quinerly:
Lindsey Graham rolled over? Wow, I never expected that he would be the first one to cave in.
Oh wait. Yes I did. I forget who first called him a pilot fish.
Soprano2
@The Thin Black Duke: True, but I think a lot of those people have no idea what they actually voted for. They voted to go back to 2019, but that’s not what they’ll get. They’ll be surprised.
narya
@sab: creating him, more like
@Shalimar: he’s never had a real job in his life
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
@TBone: My biggest hope is that most of the other nations that have slid into authoritarianism over the past several years are newer democracies or never were full democracies.
We have a nearly 250 year tradition. Like, this is America, you’re entitled to your opinion and can say what you want is deeply ingrained. So is throw the bums out of things go sideways. It’s damaged and battered and our formal institutions have failed miserably but I think we at least still have that. It may or may not be enough but it’s something.
Chris Johnson
@Geminid: And so they should. To appoint obvious useless vatniks is telegraphing that the whole thing is a bust-out.
If it’s a bust-out, the Republicans lose their shirts as America gets taken down to sub-Soviet levels, from within. Republican support is conditional on whether they get to WIN, and the reality that it’s a trick and bust-out where they’re relegated to attacking demoralized libs while their bank accounts deteriorate and their prospects dwindle, that is not what Republicans were promised.
I’m amazed that any of them, even Graham, can be held to the intended narrative. They have to know. So many of them were okay with it if they thought it would bring them power, and that’s shit but understandable. To learn that in fact they don’t get power at all, plus they’re the ones who will get blamed: this is such a bad deal for them.
K-Mo
@Shalimar: Sounds right except it won’t be 1/21. There will be a month or two of regular Senate business including confirmation of everyone else, while a handful of holdouts “bravely” defy support for PedoMat. Then all of them will vote for a 2 week recess and Gaetz will move up. Gaetz will be the sacrificial lamb but he’ll still be confirmed.
Baud
@Soprano2:
The question is whether they’ll be distracted by the thrill of seeing innocent people hurt.
Geminid
@Quinerly: Graham evidently thinks there are Republican Senators who won’t give Gaetz a chance, or else why the pleading?
It’s hard to infer anything from a Lindsey Graham statement because he has no convictions and blows with the wind, but he may have some value here as a weather vane.
Soprano2
This is a true test for the Senate. Will they still wield power, or fold like a cheap suit and become TCFG’s rubber stamp? If it’s the latter, Kay’s right.
TBone
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: 💙
Soprano2
@Baud: I really think the normies mostly won’t. They’re not like the true believers, they want things to be pre-Covid normal.
MagdaInBlack
@Chris Johnson: There is no “if.” It’s a bust-out.
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: agree
Geminid
@Soprano2: Graham’s nomination will test the Republican Senate Caucus, and so will Tulsi Gabbard’s. I’m not counting on them rolling over on either one, especially Gabbard’s. Ed. Hers is the more dangerous one, I think.
NotMax
@Baud
Picture it.
//
Quinerly
@Splitting Image:
I will be interested in what he says and does about Tulsi.
Baud
@Soprano2:
What was their excuse in 2016 when they did this the first time?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
At work the Trumpies were coming up to me and complaining to me about Gatz and Gabbard. Like because I am a liberal I am supposed to fix their mistake? My reaction was to just shrug. Trump’s their boi and they will have to fix their own mess.
Still, I take this is a sign Trump’s presidential honeymoon wouldn’t even make it his inauguration.
TBone
@Quinerly: TIL Blanche was registered as a Democrat in New York in 2023 and switched party registration in 2024.
Gin & Tonic
Aren’t recess appointments temporary?
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Good on you.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Yes, but a long temporary.
TBone
@NotMax: holy shit that’s dark!
Imaginative 😁👹
Gin & Tonic
@Quinerly: He will roll over like a puppy.
Another Scott
@K-Mo: Maybe. But one has to remember, I think, that a recess appointment still has to ultimately be approved by the Senate (before the end of the Congress) or they’re out. (They could be nominated again, of course, but …)
There are lots of friction points in complicated systems – and our national government is certainly a complicated system, and I’m not convinced that the Senate is just going to roll over and give up all its power just because DJT demands it.
He wants for everyone to comply in advance. National politicians who aren’t in the cult know that they have power and will not do that. They didn’t get where they are by turning tail when someone frowns at them. (Even Lindsey Graham knows how the game is played.)
(I see Graham’s name mentioned here, but don’t know the context yet – gotta keep reading…)
FWIW.
Hang in there, everyone. Remember, if this stuff that DJT wants to do were so very easy, it would have been done already.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Gin & Tonic
@TBone: Ever hear Firesign Theater’s “Beat the Reaper” skit?
MagdaInBlack
@TBone: Mr. Cohen is on my mind. “You Want It Darker?”
eclare
@columbusqueen:
Hehehe…I wonder what “my Kevin” is up to?
Quinerly
I am waiting for big game hunter Don Jr to be appointed Interior Secretary. I looked back at notes I kept, things I had bookmarked in 2016. There was reporting that Don Jr was pushing hard for it.
No matter who is appointed, our national parks are in trouble. I know, small potatoes in the scheme of things. I am predicting a land grab, drilling, and destruction.
Princess
I haven’t heard one single GOP senator say they won’t confirm Gaetz. I heard some furrowed brows and tut tutting — that’s it. Trump may have to give them something in return but I’ll believe they’ll vote against Gaetz when I see it.
Quinerly
@Gin & Tonic: up to 18 months, I believe.
Baud
@Quinerly:
Agree.
TBone
@Gin & Tonic: not yet! But I’ve been there and done it IRL too many times already, may have used up more than 9!
Geminid
@Quinerly: We’ll know what Grahan says about Tulsi soon enough. That guy loves to talk.
But when it comes to actions, Graham is unreliable as could be. There are other Republicans who may try to block her though, particularly the Ukraine hawks.
NotMax
@Gin & Tonic
Longest they can last is until the end of the session of Congress when the appointment was made.
Quinerly
@TBone:
Know all about Blanche. Read up on him when he came on board with Trump. He changed his entire life, career path for Trump.
TBone
@Baud: that’s why I advocated construction site sabotage yesterday (moving site surveyors’ marks to begin with). I personally haven’t participated yet, but it worked perfectly when done by an ex-BF in the days of yore who taught me.
lowtechcyclist
@Chris Johnson:
For those of us who aren’t up on this particular bit of slang, what’s a “bust-out”? Absent any context, I’d have guessed it was the same as a ‘break-out’ or escape, but context says nope.
eclare
@Baud:
I know acting appointments are one year, not sure if that also applies to recess. Or maybe that’s the same thing?
TBone
@Quinerly: 🤮
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: Yup.
Quinerly
@Baud:
Highly recommend following Alt National Park Service.
Baud
@eclare:
Different things.
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: 🤮😆
Baud
@Quinerly:
Done.
eclare
@Quinerly:
He said he’s taking a job in some investment firm that only invests in RWNJ companies. I think DJTJ’s main gig is his podcast, where he can scream all the time at libs. Destroying national parks might cut into his time.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: It’s one of the mobster literature / movie / history tropes. They take over something (business, whatever), milk it for everything they can for a while, then ultimately grab everything of value, burn what remains to the ground, and disappear before the coppers arrive.
Cheers,
Scott.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Well, I will note that the law is mostly about protecting the rich from the poor. So, if Trump turns the rule of law into a joke, oh well, maybe the very people who put Trump in, and have a lot more to lose from his shit than I do, might want to do something about it?
lowtechcyclist
@Gin & Tonic:
“According to my careful prosthesis, this man has The Plague.”
eclare
@Quinerly:
Done. Thanks!
stinger
That, or the 91-year-old was having a TIA. Did anybody check?
Geminid
@NotMax: In that case, why bother? My understanding is that Trump has no power of appointment, recess or otherwise until next January 20. Am I missing something here?
Quinerly
@Gin & Tonic:
There is a great FAQ re recess appointments on line. PDF. Congressional Research Service. I Googled it awhile ago and bookmarked. I am on my phone. Don’t know how to link to a PDF.
Tony G
Both Gaetz and Gabbard will be promptly confirmed by the Republican majority Senate. None of them will ever oppose Dear Leader.
TBone
@Another Scott: we can thank Marty Scorsese for many things he clued us in on.
Baud
I see no value in making predictions. All the Dems will vote against Gaetz and Gabbard. People will recognize that or they won’t.
lowtechcyclist
@Princess:
I bet they stall on him until they decide it’s OK to take a recess, then let Cheetolini do a recess appointment. But I agree that there aren’t four GOP Senators with the backbone to vote him down.
A question about Gaetz’ resignation from Congress: does that apply just to the current Congress, or to the next one as well? If just the current Congress, then it’s just a bit of gamesmanship to temporarily shut down publication of the ethics committee report.
TBone
@Quinerly: I think I posted it yesterday or the day before.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RS/RS21308
Links directly to .pdf
(This wasn’t what I posted previously, I got into the Rules Book weeds before you pointed to FAQ).
Searcher
@Chris Johnson: Trump is terrified of having the 25th Amendment invoked.
He wants a cabinet that is either fanatically loyal to him, or completely venal while knowing there is no way that they can hold on to power without Trump.
Gaetz, Gabbard, Hedwich or whatever the name of the Fox News Nazi is… they know that they won’t survive in a Vance administration.
Failing that, Trump wants his entire Cabinet to be recess appointments, so that if he is deposed, he can argue they don’t have the authority to do so, since none of them were confirmed/all of them were acting heads.
Tony G
@Splitting Image: I don’t think so. The real money guys have been in a symbiotic relationship with Trump for nine years now. Case in point: Elon Musk, the richest person in the world.
eclare
Hehehe…”who will spend more time at the White House over the next four years? Elon Musk or Melania?”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
True. Also, Gatz, what a hill to die on. Trump could have just appointed that personal lawyer of his, the Senate might of tut tut a little bit and approved her and quite gone on to do what ever in the dark,
NotMax
@Quinerly
Not to add fuel to the fire but a president can also make recess appointments to the Supreme Court.
Earl Warren was recess appointed Chief Justice by Ike, later on formally confirmed by the Senate.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Searcher: Speaking of that, I was thinking that Trump wanted Gaetz because Trump has the goods to blackmail Gaetz with. Pretty safe to assume that Trump has a copy of that House investigation on Gaetz.
rikyrah
Vivek is so stupid that he doesn’t see that he’s about to be the FACE for all those horrible cuts. When they prove to be unpopular, they will throw him under the bus 😒😒
Tony G
@eclare: The July 1st “Trump vs United States” Supreme Court decision ruled that the president does not have to obey any laws. So it doesn’t matter what the laws say.
Tony G
@Tony G: We will soon be at the post-Reichstag-fire phase.
TBone
@Tony G: yep, uncharted territory dead ahead.
Quinerly
@eclare:
Don’t know if you are on FB. Their FB page is very good for concise info and history. They organized in 2017 when Trump was scrubbing info from official government websites . They have reposted their long list of what they are resisting (these folks are our national park rangers et al). Last week the website was down due to trolls and bots attacking.
Trump definitely has our public lands in his cross hairs. I haven’t forgotten what he did and tried to do to Bears Ears. Biden reversed that. You can better believe Trump is going after Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante again. Absolutely gorgeous country. I have camped and hiked it. Irreplaceable petroglyphs.
stinger
@sab: A very large minority of American voters are Biden-Harris-Walz Americans, inspired by decency, neighborliness, and joy. We are only slightly outnumbered by Trump-Vance-Gaetz American voters, inspired by greed, grievance, and psychopathy, and I don’t accept that that’s “who we really are.” That’s only who some of us are.
Baud
@stinger:
It’s a stupid debate anyway. I don’t know why liberals like to pretend their historians from the future. Work for progress or don’t, but the constant self reflection is tiring.
K-Mo
@Another Scott: Anything is plausible, but a recess appointment would last like 60 Scaramuccis
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Ah yes, Trump’s razor “Think of the stupidest thing possible and that will be the motivation”
Gin & Tonic
@Tony G: Tomorrow’s newspaper today.
Quinerly
@NotMax:
Yes. Pretty common knowledge. I think the question was how long an appt can last without being confirmed.
I think we can all agree that the point with Trump would be for him to time his appointments so that person can be there for the longest period. He doesn’t care if they are ever confirmed. Rotating cast of characters. No hearings, no FBI background checks. Destroy the administrative state (see Steve Bannon).
zhena gogolia
Is it heretical of me to say that I’m more terrified of Gabbard than of Gaetz?
Quinerly
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
But no hearings if recess appts.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: (mic drop)
Quinerly
@TBone: 👍
sentient ai from the future
far be it from me to suggest that anyone willingly subject themselves to matt fucking gaetz, but i do note that he has a goddamn podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/firebrand-with-matt-gaetz/id1512848110) that i’m certain contains some real gems.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
No. I agree.
sentient ai from the future
matt gaetz has a podcast on apple podcasts, people. im sure its full of shitty, shitty gems.
cmorenc
@Bruce K in ATH-GR:
This principle applies to Evangelicals who thought hiring the Devil in Trump to do God’s work was a good bargain.
Betty Cracker
@zhena gogolia: No, it’s not heretical. I think they’re equally terrifying but in different spheres. Gaetz will lay waste to any pretense of domestic rule of law, and Gabbard will destroy U.S. intel assets, trashing alliances and strengthening Russia’s position.
stinger
@Quinerly:
Following now — thanks!
Quinerly
@eclare:
Read that.
“Why not both?”
I would wager money that at some point Don Jr will be in the administration. I note that some Trump lackey made a point of saying this week and I am paraphrasing…Trump deserves and will get the cabinet and people who will help him achieve his goals….then this guy threw out JFK having his brother in his administration.
Jr is beloved in MAGA. This is a dynasty.
narya
@zhena gogolia: Nope. lots of us here feel similarly, and we’re just commenters on a top-10,000 blog.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@Another Scott: Two shirts was supposed to have been hanging out with mobster types while he was in prison so I’m sure he picked up all kinds of tips from them. Also, no doubt two shirts will facilitate some pardons for the people he met while in prison.
Quinerly
@Betty Cracker:
Tulsi will do more long term damage. And probably more immediate damage.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Quinerly: Were is the drama in that?
This about getting everyone’s attention, not getting an agenda done. Doing things is boring . Doing things is what little people do.
Trump could have easy chose some bland unknown for the position, that the GOP senate would have rubber stamped, instead he chose the one person who hearing would end up a shit show.
Baud
Has Bernie Sanders said anything about Tulsi? They were allies eight years ago.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It’s what losing Democrats do.
catclub
Tulsi Gabbard seems like very bad news for the intelligence agencies.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: Bernie is a performative show pony doing stupid pet tricks for his audience. Being critical of Tulsi would expose his complicity in the shithouse we’re in. He ain’t gonna say bupkis.
TBone
@Mai Naem mobile ¹: you got me thinking about what this fucking guy taught him too:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/who-chinese-mogul-who-owns-boat-steve-bannon-was-busted-n1237511
TBone
@catclub: 👍🙂↕️
SFAW
@zhena gogolia:
It occurred to me (before caffeine) that he named Gabbard because his first two choices (Andropov and Beria) were not available.
And Putin already has a job, so I guess that rounds out his first three choices.
gene108
I do not understand the shock or surprise of any nominee Trump proposes for Senate confirmation.
He was very explicit that part of his agenda will be revenge and retribution against the people who did not treat him well.
He pretty much made it obvious the AG and DOJ are going to be his tools for revenge and retribution.
The entire point of Project 2025, Trump’s promises of picking loyal advisers and Cabinet members above all else, and the SCOTUS decision in Trump v. United States is to take the guardrails off the presidency for Trump.
These Republican staffers are sniveling fuckwads, who are scared Trump will sink their future careers by being too big a fuck up this time around. If they had morals or understood right from wrong they wouldn’t be Republicans. Their objection to Gaetz is only because they worry about their careers.
lowtechcyclist
@Quinerly:
Article II, Section 2, Clause 3:
Wikipedia:
K-Mo said about 60 Scaramuccis, and that’s about right.
NotMax
@catclub
Gabbard has no business being associated with any position involving intelligence. In all senses of the term.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@Baud: i hope the Biden people made plans national security wise for tfg winning. I don’t have confidence in them having planned but I hope they did.
Geminid
@Quinerly: An Attorney General Gaetz would operate in the spotlight, but a DNI Gabbard could operate in the shadows. A DNI can shape foreogn and defense policy by shaping intelligence findings, so it’s a powerful post with very little transparency or accountability.
narya
On a somewhat different note, I stumbled across this article, by an anarchist (!) talking about mutual aid networks/networking after Helene. I’m throwing it in this comment pile in part because we’ve been talking a lot about a form of mutual aid (and that’s what this blog is, too)
ETA: a lot of the other stuff on that site . . . whew. but I still liked that piece.
NotMax
@
As stated above in #77.
lowtechcyclist
@cmorenc:
Of course, their notion of what God’s work is, is rather muddled to say the least. More to the point, they’ve clearly come up with the wrong answer to Oolon Colluphid’s question, “Who is this God person anyway?”
Mai Naem mobile ¹
It seems like a lot of people people here have the bread and circuses theory with tfg’s nominations. I’m wondering if he’s picking the people the Russians have the most dirt on.
TBone
@Geminid: Gaetz has minions to operate covertly, methinks.
NotMax
Faulty fingers. Fix.
@lowtechcyclist
As stated above in #77.
JML
“I’m very concerned about the President-elect’s nomination of Matt Gaetz for Attorney General. He doesn’t meet the ethical standards for the position, and there’s deeply troubling reports of inappropriate conduct involving him with young women. I urge all my fellow senators to serious consider rejecting this nominee so that I don’t have to vote for him, which I will because I have never shown a moment of political courage in my life.” – Susan Collins, probably.
Quinerly
Anyone listening to MJ? Gaetz’s folder on Joe Scarborough.
narya
@Mai Naem mobile ¹: That was exactly what I thought. I think there are two categories: suck-ups and compromised people. Probably some overlap.
TerryC
@TBone: Be careful, we have video all over the place nowadays.
Warblewarble
If Jeffery Epstein was still around he would get a pardon and cabinet position or ambassadorship.
SFAW
@Quinerly:
Maybe it’s because I’m pre-caffeine, but I don’t understand that sentence.
Quinerly
@Geminid:
I totally get what you are saying. But, I think we can agree that none of this will operate like it has in the past. An AG Gaetz and his hires will operate just like they want. No oversight.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@TBone: I’ll admit i never took two shirts too seriously early on but my older sister who seems to have an uncanny ability of figuring out dangerous people told me early on in tfg season 1 that two shirts was a very dangerous guy and to watch his moves.
Geminid
@lowtechcyclist:
That says nothing about a President-elect, and there are no vacancies now and won’t be until January 20. Either I’m missing something here, or this recess appointment idea is a straw herring.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@SFAW: Google is your friend. Look up interns with Joe.
Quinerly
@SFAW:
You actually have to be listening. In a nutshell, Gaetz and Trump are itching to go after Joe Scarborough. I’ll try to find some links with some history. An old feud.
lowtechcyclist
@gene108:
Fixed.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Even before the Gabbard nomination, a friend who worked in intelligence speculated that the CIA was busy ending programs and stowing the results deep away, so they’d be there if it was ever safe to retrieve them.
Quinerly
@Mai Naem mobile ¹:
I had missed the part about Gaetz with a folder of conspiracy theories about Scarborough and the folks around Trump trying to keep the folder from Trump. I stepped outside with my JoJo and missed the first couple of minutes of the second hr.
I have seen it reported that Trump has a hit list of media personalities that he is going after. Especially anyone who has given air time to Mary Trump, and Michael Cohen. Rachel Maddow is on the list.
lowtechcyclist
@NotMax:
No, you said they could serve to the end of the session of Congress as the recess appointment was made. The Constitution says the end of the next session. The difference is the end of 2025 v. the end of 2026.
NotMax
@Germinid
We’re talking about post-January 20.
Geminid
@Quinerly: Yes, but most Justice Department actions are a matter of public record. They can’t keep appointments secret, and speaking generally, the Justice Department can’t bring lawsuits or drop them in secret.
Quinerly
@Geminid:
Recess immediately after inauguration as I understand. That’s what Scott was will to agree to. Sen Thune probably wouldn’t recess immediately. If Trump doesn’t fill AG position while Senate is in session he will just wait for them to recess.
Quinerly
@Geminid:
I am well aware of what you are saying.
I just think anything CAN become possible. We have never been here before.
K-Mo
@Quinerly: put him in charge of the DEA
NotMax
@Quinerly
Perhaps Ds acting in concert will be able to peel off a few Rs so a vote to recess does not move forward.
lowtechcyclist
@Geminid:
You’re right that he can’t do recess appointments until after the inauguration. As others have suggested here, the Senate might go into recess sometime not too long after January 20. Maybe the next day, maybe the next month. But after. If the Senate won’t confirm someone, he can do it then.
Geminid
@NotMax: Ok. In that case I guess this will be up to Thune and company. Senators value their institutional power and personal independence, and they will be reluctant to give them up.
Ed. They already bucked Trump when they rejected Rick Scott’s bid for Majority Leader.
Many people here are certain Republican Senstors will bow to threats and intimidation. Maybe they will, but I’m not so sure. I guess we’ll know in two months, though.
Peale
@JML: Yep. Avoiding hearings and votes on Gaetz because republicans are cowards is exactly why he’ll be a recess apointment. They could do their god damned jobs, but in reality, they’d gladly give over their daughters for a night of chemsex with Gaetz if it would help them get a leg up in the new administration.
SFAW
@Mai Naem mobile ¹:
“Google is your friend”?
Kinda need some context before I can google it. But thanks for the “help.”
Bupalos
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:
It’s true that we have a more deeply engrained attachment to democracy and stronger institutions. That will means democracy lasts a lot longer under adverse conditions here. However no democracy can survive forever with very low social trust.
We can hold our breath for a very long time. But we do have to breathe.
The way Trump is going to damage democracy isn’t going to be so much specific spectacular direct stuff like banning abortion or books or the much-discussed concentration camps for citizens. It’s related, but not direct. The way he does it is what you see a lot on here: “I hate my coworker for destroying my country” or “I hope they get what’s coming to them, even if I have to suffer too.” This is the plastic bag over democracy’s head. There is no such thing as a democracy of enemies.
A decade of people like him ushering us down this path and we might see marginal efforts like photo id’s and voter roll shenanigans and book banning stunts turn into things that reach further into people’s lives, and truly make liberal democracy untenable.
Quinerly
@lowtechcyclist: see my original response. Depending on the timing I think 18 months is about the longest.
SFAW
@Quinerly:
Thanks. Also, your explanation at 163 clarifies the “folder” comment, which is where I needed some context.
Quinerly
@SFAW:
Here’s a start.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/12/trump-conspiracy-theory-msnbc-251108
I mostly was asking if anyone was listening to the first 2 minutes I missed THIS AM. Gaetz and his “folder” on Scarborough.
Gotta go. Take care.
SFAW
@Quinerly:
I do appreciate the help, truly I do. But I was only trying to parse the sentence “Gaetz’s folder on Joe Scarborough.” There seemed to be a couple of words missing; those (implied) words have now become clear to me.
I have no particular love for Scarborough, but TCFFG going after him would seem to be part of his Reign of Revenge and Retribution, which would certainly bring us a lot closer to Nazi Germany.
ETA: Back in the 1930s, people could flee the Nazis by coming to America. When America disappears as a haven, where are refugees going to go? No country seems immune anymore.
Quinerly
@SFAW:
Apologies. It was sorta shorthand to the few folks who regularly (or at least did) listen to MJ. I know people have been attacked here for even admitting that they tune in. One of the more endearing qualities of many of the “valued commenters.” I just love to be told by anonymous people with cute nyms what to read and watch/listen to. I’m so old I remember being attacked for a NPR link years ago.😉
With that said, I freely admit I listen and read from a lot of sources. I find MJ very informative. Very good guests and some good inside baseball stuff. Like reporting that Gaetz wormed his way on Trump’s plane yesterday and at the end of the ride came away as Trump’s AG nominee. He was not on any nominee lists before his plane ride. To me it is obvious, he bent Trump’s ear on all the stuff he is willing to do if AG.
Kathleen
@The Thin Black Duke: I hear you, but I want to know why Joe Biden hasn’t fought all of these appointments. (s//) Plus thanks to him my bagel this morning was not perfectly sliced down the middle. If only he had stepped down in 2021.
Random observation: we have reached a point where we see see horrible Republicans reviling Republicans more horrible than they are as possible hopeful signs of something.
eclare
@Quinerly:
I remember. Not on FB.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@SFAW: sorry, i didn’t mean to sound snarky about it. i am guessing Joe’s file has to do with the intern/staffer scandal from years ago. I’ve forgotten the details but you can look it up.
Starfish
@Quinerly: Wait, you are talking about Morning Joe? Doesn’t John himself tune in?
The problem with NPR was that it was given liberal cred while being incredibly lazy and both sider-y. I think DougJ was the one who called it “tote bagger radio.”
The companies that run ads on NPR are usually bad people doing bad things. Recently, my spouse said, “The company you work for sure advertises on NPR a lot.”
eclare
@Quinerly:
I listen to MJ. Yeah, that folder bit was chilling. I would not be surprised if some late night hosts weren’t also on the enemies list, along with 60 Minutes.
Princess
@zhena gogolia: You’re right to be. Gabbard is much more concerning than Gaetz. Gaetz is an immoral pick. Gabbard will destroy US’s intelligence capacity.
SFAW
@Quinerly:No need to apologize! I figured it was even-more-inside baseball than what I was accustomed to.
But I’m shocked, SHOCKED!! that you once posted an NPR link! [Not really, of course.]
I’m glad you’re here, and I’m sorry you sometimes have to deal with slings and arrows from some quarters.
ETA: Confession: every so often, I think about your travels/travelogues with Poco, and have to remind myself that Poco is gone, which saddens me.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@Geminid: can I admit I’m hoping McConnell survives this physically, cannot resign and gets to watch all the damage he’s wrought by pushing senate norms and not dealing with the Dems in good faith?
SFAW
@Mai Naem mobile ¹:
I remember about Scarborough and Tara Something-or-other (too lazy to look it up), but figured that was so long ago, why would anybody bother dredging it up?
But then I remember that the Fascist-in-Chief wants revenge on EVERYONE not willing to suck up to him.
Geminid
@Mai Naem mobile ¹: Sure you can.
I’m more interested in seeing if McConnell helps frustrate Trump’s overreach. McConnell is loyal to the Republican Party and to the Senate, not to Trump. He despises Trump and Trump knows it.
If McConnell succeeds in jamming Trump in some area that wouldn’t make McConnell a good person, but as a practical matter I don’t care about McConnell’s moral qualities, just his actions.
Chris Johnson
@lowtechcyclist: So the term ‘bust-out’ is cited by a famous mobster movie, Goodfellas, but I’m using it in a political context to explain what is happening.
Trump works for Russia, who has many assets. They had people in Bernie’s campaign: I was there and saw it and didn’t recognize it at the time, and Bernie got rid of them but the damage was done (perhaps why he goes against his belief to endorse Clinton, Biden, Harris: he knows he got used by Russia, by now)
The full quote (again, from a famous movie) is, “When you can’t borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match.” The thing to understand that’s causing some consternation among Republicans is, they want power and money.
This is uncontroversial, yes?
Busting it out means, this has been war. Nod to Adam Silverman who has been correct about that for a long time. This has been the cold war turned hot in a different way, and Russia is waging it not just on Ukraine, but directly on us through intermediaries.
These intermediaries are all the politicians they can control, dominate (Graham), blackmail (Gaetz, presumably?) or straight up operate (Gabbard, most likely Stein). They have to be either dominated, or just such psychopaths that they’re down with the bust-out plan.
We are not rival people fighting over whether or not to burn the building or loot it. WE ARE THE BUILDING. I firmly believe that if Russia thinks they can have Trump send them working nukes, and then stay enough in control that they don’t get nuked back, they would nuke us with our own nukes since theirs most likely don’t work any better than the rest of their military does.
But failing that, they will have Gabbard wrap up every intelligence operation that threatens them, expose every secret or agent that could harm them, they’ll have Gaetz make a complete mess and shonda of the whole legal system (him even being there is the definition of that), they will try their best to manufacture leftist threats so they can convert our already shaky police state into full fascism, and they’re gonna try to subvert the military, or better yet subvert half of it and set it to fighting the other half.
This is a bust-out. The damage has always been the point, and I have been saying for years that the Republicans will not be winning this because they want power and money, and they’re meant to be set on fire along with the rest of us. It is simple revenge, simple war between the former Cold War combatants, just done a different way. But the end game is not for us to become a wealthy Russian colony. Putin learned the cost of that with ‘Londongrad’. The purpose is to destroy us on every imaginable level.
That’s pretty much why I joke about RFK making pasteurization illegal. If he did a bunch of that and enforced it, we’d drop like flies. That’s the point.
Bill Arnold
@Searcher:
Or are compromised, in ways that are not public … yet.
I agree with the overall argument.
Another source of uncertainty is that Trump’s brain is not in good shape and appears to be deteriorating; that could play out in very odd ways.
Kathleen
@The Thin Black Duke: She nominated in at convention in 2016 and she was on his “Our Revolution” board.
Citizen Alan
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: i wish you had done more then shrugged. Five words are all that was necessary, and i’m thinking of putting them on a t shirt:
RaflW
Oh, Kevin McCarthy. You’re close to a Shakespearean tragic figure. But really you’re just a run of the mill GOP p.o.s.
Citizen Alan
@cmorenc: the most politically prominent religious institution in america is dominated by satan worshipers.
Ruckus
@Rusty:
Middle school?
Surely you jest……
OK, possibly middle school, as long as you qualify it with kids that were always in trouble for being the strangest kid in any class and always getting into trouble because they never think, they just say and do whatever falls down into their mouths from whatever it is inside that thing on top their shoulders.
Ruckus
@Shalimar:
He’s good at anything? I’m appalled. Oh wait he’s good at being worse than useless…..
RaflW
@Shalimar: I’ll probably be proven wrong, but I’m not yet convinced that R senators will give away that much power. A guy like Thune has spent 27 years in and around D.C. (1997-03 in the House, 2005-now in Senate).
That’s an incredibly long slog to get to the top of the greased pole. He’s not a dumbass like Tuberville. He knows that if he allows a spate of recess appointments, that the already diminished Senate will be closer and closer to a House of Lords, with harrumphing but few effects.
I don’t think Thune (or a couple dozen other R senators who I think resent Trump deeply for his waltzing in and being the kahuna while they toiled for decades) will cave quite that much. But, everything Trump touches, dies, so probably Senate power, too.
Tony G
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: That’s true. In addition, nominating Gaetz is a way to say F*** YOU to everyone who is not already in his cult, and a way to identify and punish everyone who is insufficiently obsequious.