I’ve been following Bolts Magazine on Bluesky and I like what I see. Here’s a good overview of the effect of state Supreme Court elections on the recent election. For example, when the GOP got a majority in North Carolina, they green lighted a gerrymandering plan that flipped three US House seats.
From Lawfare, here’s a discussion of how the Presidential adjournment power could be used to enable recess appointments for Trump. This idea is floating around Republican legal circles.
It is one thing to say as a senator that in principle you support the president’s ability to use the recess appointment power, as Thune did. It is quite another thing to acquiesce to the engineering of a fake congressional recess in order to facilitate the president’s use of the recess appointment power by way of circumventing one’s own body’s constitutional authority. As [NRO writer Ed] Whelan describes the engineering in question, the Senate could not actually stop this from happening directly, since it requires only Speaker Johnson’s involvement. That means, paradoxically, that if Trump can do this, the scheme Whelan describes would enable any president to evade Senate confirmation for his cabinet for two years so long as his party controls the House of Representatives.
That said, as a functional matter, Senate Republicans could stop it dead in its tracks merely by making clear that they are willing to defend their institutional prerogative and are willing to use their oversight and appropriations powers in an effort to do so. They could, for example, say that cabinet officials who have not gone through Senate confirmation or been appointed during a regular recess should not expect legislative cooperation on key matters. A few phone calls to this effect from a few committee chairs would make the scheme untenable, at least for an administration that wants to do anything.
I have long since stopped expecting senators to put their country or their branch of government over party, and I’m not going to make a plea for that here. My days of such naivete are over.
I am going to say that what goes around comes around, and Republican senators should be at least a little bit careful about creating an infrastructure for a liberal president to install atop federal agencies left-wing activists specifically chosen to antagonize conservatives—and to do so without Senate approval.
It’s a very ingrained Senatorial reflex to avoid tough votes. I have no doubt that Thune’s caucus has a mix of Senators who would love to vote for Matt Gaetz, RFK Jr. and the rest, along with a good number who would rejoice if there were some way to avoid the vote altogether. The question is whether someone like Collins, who’s up in 2026 and will be a mere sprite of 73, thinks she can get away with supporting some recess fuckery to elide responsibility for putting an (accused) statutory rapist into the AG spot. Considering that she won in 2020 even though she was essentially one of Trump’s handmaidens, my guess is that she’ll go along. Murkowski is also a question mark. Thom Tillis is also up in 2026, not that it probably matters.
Pennsylvanian
The performative Collins “concern” is never real. If she doesn’t go along, they will threaten to take Appropriations away. She’ll cave, I have NO doubt.
Nobody is coming to save us. And just remember, no matter how bad things are, they can always get worse.
Happy Friday jackals!
Old School
But expecting senators to put their egos aside and be told they aren’t necessary? That’ll leave a mark.
The Other Bob
It seems that the Democrat-nominated Supreme Court justices won in Michigan due to fact that the Michigan Republican party is essentially non-existent as an effective campaign apparatus. I think nominating women was likely a factor.
Chris Johnson
I heard about this obstacle to recess appointments through Belle of the Fifth Column: good place to hear limited news about current events when you know news is mostly about stampeding you into becoming an example for the others.
I’m still feeling that the ONLY important thing about all this, is what Trump proposes to do with these recess appointments.
At least from within my silo, it looks really obvious that Russia takes credit for his win, and has some pretty intense expections for him. Especially since this crowd of people (Musk, RFK) are an annoying useless rabble who HAVE to be driving Trump mad with their grandstanding and lecturing him on stuff (that’s new!), the only reason they could possibly still be around is because they are Russia’s expectations for him.
There’s any number of willing Republicans who would do any damn thing for the man and apparently none of them will do. Why?
Because it’s a bust-out: Gabbard is there to deliver the entire American intelligence apparatus to Russia, RFK is there to obliterate American medicine, Gaetz is there to do as much damage as he can, the Fox dude is there to make half the military go to open war against the other half, and so on. It’s a bust-out, the only people Trump is willing to appoint are the people who can be counted upon to blow everything up IMMEDIATELY and keep at it until we’re sub-Soviet.
And that’s the long and short of it, and the purpose of Trump’s continued existence right now.
And the very important thing to remember about that is, the Republicans wanted to rule. They wanted to be rich, they wanted to have power, they wanted to demand respect from the world and be Kings of all their domains.
What Trump is doing is a total betrayal of that. It’s blowing up in their faces. They will be ruined, they have far more than most of us will ever have and it’s all going bye-bye in a planned total American collapse. If they rebel, they’ll be disloyal and they’ll be targeted. BUT, if they do not rebel, it doesn’t matter because all they have is about to be taken away from them by the chaos.
I’m not talking politically, I’m talking health collapses as we fear, economically the dollar collapses when it’s sabotaged hard enough, just a total shitshow that’s been set up carefully to establish this imperial power for Trump, only to be abused for the purpose of ruining everything so Putin can say ‘ha haaa!’ like the kid in the Simpsons meme.
Of course _I_ think this sucks, I didn’t want any of that. But it’s important to remember that all these powerful Republicans were promised greatness, and went along with the Faustian bargain, only to get a total rug-pull.
They’re all heavily armed and there ain’t enough dachas in Moscow for them. I’m more determined than ever to fall back on being a good person and not volunteering as the continued distraction, not volunteering to be the brightly painted left wing monster they can obsess over as everything goes to shit.
We were never their real problem.
WereBear
We are not the only ones who want normal back. And a senator’s normal is a lot cushier than ours is.
They don’t wanna worry about random death threats from MAGA and their own colleagues and their own presidenT.
They want that back.
eemom
Is this supposed to be one of those cheering up threads? When you said “good reads” I thought….
lowtechcyclist
@Old School:
If the choice is between that and taking a difficult stand, I bet they go along with being unnecessary.
Lobo
TPM had a great article on Obeying in Advance. It references all of us who may be checking out from despair and hopelessness. This does not mean there are those who need a break to engage in self-care. Self-care is a form action. It is taking the time step back and gather strength for the challenges ahead. Care is the operative word here. Whether care for yourself or others at this time.
How does one show care? It can be in the small things or big. It is doing something. Jewish people have a saying, I think from the Talmud, whoever saves one person saves the world. Save yourself and save others. A good, small thing is an answer on how to confront ruthless power run amok. Small things lead to bigger things. Will there be setbacks. Yes, but I think to think of ourselves as Tanner from the Bad News Bears. Was he perfect? No, but he refused to give up and would challenge the bullies even though it was a losing cause. But sometimes he won.
I will fight for all thing great and small.
I will fight for all things bright and beautiful.
I will fight for all things wise and wonderful.
Why, the Creator made them all.
All for everyone, or else it’s all for none.
Here I Stand.
Peace
Chris Johnson
@Lobo: Love it, 10/10, no notes
lowtechcyclist
@Lobo:
I think Josh was even more aiming at those claiming to be realists who say, basically, Trump will rule as an autocrat and there’s nothing we can do to stop him. It’s the political equivalent of Arthur Dent’s “so this is it, we’re going to die.” Checking out when we need to is OK, but those who are telling other people there’s no point in even trying to resist are the people he’s really aiming at.
gene108
Trying to explain recess appointment to a normie voter is like trying to teach calculus to a cat.
Only political junkies will care about abuses of Congressional procedures.
The only thing Matt Gaetz has been accused of that Trump has not been accused of is binge drinking and enough people have no problem with Trump, including most Republican Senators, their reason to be hesitant about confirming Gaetz must be something personal Gaetz did to them.
Lobo
@lowtechcyclist: It can be an and to encompass any reason behind anticipatory obedience. Thank you for your comment.
trollhattan
Things go better with coke.
Baud
@trollhattan:
Bullshit. He loves it.
TBone
Hubby just clicked over to Market Day Report on CNBC for a minute and I just saw my first TV advertisement for a handgun. The “Snake Slayer.”
The ad guy voice urged me to get mine NOW before prices go up!
https://www.bondarms.com/bond-arms-handguns/snake-slayer/
Caliber
.357Mag/.38Spl, .45LC/.410
Barrel Length
3.5″
Van Buren
@Old School: It’s quite the pickle. Give up power or buck their God-King.
I’m expecting them to emasculate themselves.
Leto
@Baud: I wonder if part of the reason some of these people are getting picks is because they’re buying out large blocks of his hotels, I.e. paying for the position? We saw the buying influence scheme during his first administration, figure it’s happening again on a larger scale.
The Truffle
2026 looks to be a year when more GOP senators than Dems are running for reelection. Just saying.
Jeffg166
Why are people talking about future elections? Like they are going to happen. Once the felon gets what he wants the show is over.
different-church-lady
@Pennsylvanian: It’s like, “NOBODY IS FOOLED BY THIS SHIT ANYMORE, SUSAN!”
Baud
@TBone:
I wonder if prices will actually go down. The gun nuts tend to buy more when Dems are in charge.
TBone
@Baud: you mean gun prices???
JMG
If all the GOP Senators are going to roll over on Trump’s nominees (safe bet), why go to the trouble of the recess appointments? Just take the votes and move on.
different-church-lady
For reasons I am not going to explain, I feel the need to re-emphasize: Twitter was the most efficient tool ever invented to make people say stupid shit publicly.
Bluesky is not going to fix this.
Baud
@TBone:
Yes. Trump is going to defeat inflation of gun prices.
different-church-lady
@JMG: Dominance.
TBone
@Baud: 😆
Brendan In NC
@The Truffle: It sure is. And Tillis is coming around a bit. I’ve never voted for him; and we’ve stepped on our “Richards” when selecting his opponents – but he’s actually sided with the “sane” Republican faction recently.
frosty
@Jeffg166: I felt this way for awhile too, that it’s been telegraphed that there won’t be any more elections. However, I saw a statement that this is another form of obeying in advance so I’ve changed my attitude. I’ll assume there will be elections and that they can’t be stopped until I see otherwise.
ArchTeryx
@Baud:
<snark warning>
At least SOMETHING’S price will go down. Great for when the civil war starts.
At this point, black humor is about all I got left.
Aziz, light!
@Jeffg166: Thank you, Bill Paxton (RIP), who improvised:
“Well that’s great, man. What the fuck are we going to do now? Game over, man! Game over!”
ArchTeryx
@Aziz, light!: Goddamn he made a great Hicks.
“What do you mean THEY cut the power? They’re animals, man!”
Annie
I’m most worried about Gabbard. There is nothing to stop her from handing a list of all our spies over to Putin. Can our intelligence agencies shut down all their sources?
Aziz, light!
@Baud: “The gun nuts tend to buy more” is sufficient. Especially the ones who want to get their race war on.
TBone
Palate cleanser 🎶 how ya like me now?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzvRsl4rEM
Snake slaying music WTF, the reptilian brain of Teh Markets.
I have a meme of a woman tied to a stake as the flames leap up and start to lick at her body. She is leaning down into them to light the last cigarette hanging from her lips.
Suzanne
Read a good comment on Bluesky….. some truth brought by Julian Sanchez:
Yeah, this is some TRUFACTS.
Aziz, light!
@ArchTeryx: Hudson not Hicks.
/Aliens nerd.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Aziz, light!: To which the natural rejoinder is: “Stay frosty.”
cmorenc
@Chris Johnson:
This is what I don’t get about Trump: he’s achieved returning as king of the hill of the most economically and militarily powerful country on Earth. What’s in it for him to deliberately rule it in such a blatantly destructive (and ultimately self-destructive) fashion, subservient to the interests of a much lesser power in both respects? Even his drive to rule in an authoritarian fashion like Putin and Xi doesn’t explain why he’s self-destructively undermining his own nest. What the Hell does Putin (or someone) have over him to cause this?
Starfish
@Van Buren: These people concerned with a lot of performative manliness sure are a bunch of beta cucks simping for Trump.
I am sorry that understanding that sentence is going to involve reading way too much urban dictionary.
TBone
@cmorenc: it’s a war game and the US lost. Temporarily.
I hope the traitor’s firing squad uses Snake Slayers.
Trivia Man
@Lobo: Love the Bad News Bears shoutout. In its own way it is a great movie. I still enjoy it. But OG version only.
AM in NC
Well I have damn well been calling Tillis’s DC and Raleigh offices every day about the nominations of Gabbard, Gates, and Hegseth.
They need to her that THIS is all on them. And we know it. And we will be working, donating, and voting accordingly.
I also be sure to say to the staff – this is on YOU too.
Trivia Man
@Starfish: all your comment needs is to be formatted like Loss.
cmorenc
@Jeffg166:
There will be elections, just as there are in other authoritarian countries. But the elections will be structured in such a way to make it very difficult for the opposition to win anything but a foothold, kind of what happened in many state-level elections post-2010, but writ large on the national scale. The idea is the model of the Harlem Globetrotters show – the Ds will play the role of the Washington Generals as the opposition.
Suzanne
@cmorenc: He ran to stay out of prison and because he wanted to win. I expect a similar lack of give-a-damn about good governance as the last time. The bigger threat I see this go-round is that he’s empowering an even worse crew of shitheads.
Starfish
@Jeffg166: The 2026 election is going to happen.
Though Trump can scream about election fraud, I think that he is going to do less of that during a year when he is not personally in the race.
Between Democrats winning in the states AND the map just not being good for Republicans in 2026, it is likely that there is going to be a lot of resistance to his nonsense come 2026.
If the Republicans spend the next two years doing unpopular and trolly nonsense and showing themselves as being people who cannot govern, then they are likely going to lose.
TBone
@Suzanne: I’m seeing international ramifications.
CNN has a story about his nominations not needing background checks, just like Jarvanka. The FBI has obeyed in advance.
Bupalos
Copying in from deadthread, because I’d like to hear feedback on this – a main theme for us from this election is how we compete in the new information environment. Krope pointed up the problem well with the observation that Harris had a robust policy slate but undecideds were constantly saying she didn’t. My thought isn’t really new or unique but I think we’re drifting away from some simple realities-
At the less educated and engaged end of the scale where we lost, creating your policy persona isn’t a matter of stating lists of policies. It’s incessant repetition (as in short slogans) and stunts and poses and embodying those policy priorities. Build That Wall! Lock Her Up! Drill Baby Drill. Make America Great Again! Send Them Back! Drain The Swamp! They’re Eating the Dogs! And he climbed in a garbage truck and he did the French fry stunt.
that is actually how you message to the broader electorate, and if you don’t have that kind of rough, dumb summation and performance of your policy slate, then to these people you don’t have policies.
Harris had “We’re not going back” which was very good and corresponded with the one policy that people did universally understand that she stood for, reproductive freedom. I don’t think there was any simple messaging around the rest of the platform. Nothing stuck for defending democracy, housing relief, a more equitable tax structure, or price gouging.
I think that’s the sense that she “had no policies.
p.a.
@cmorenc: You really think tRump’s brain works like, if A, then B, C, D?
I think it’s more like the Three Stooges Theme on constant cycle.
gene108
@trollhattan:
Kudlow was a senior economic advisor in Trump’s prior term.
Edit: At least Trump’s not picking Kudlow for Treasury Secretary.
Joe Falco
The warning about Democrats will do the same that Republicans are doing if the Republicans go along with their schemes has the same weight of arguing the Supreme Court allowing presidents to do whatever if it’s an official act will encourage Biden or whichever future president with a (D) on the end to go wild. I’ll believe it when I see it.
cmorenc
@Starfish:
Technically, the Rs face a similarly disproportionate share of their incumbent Senate seats up for election in 2026. But if you look at actually which states most of these seats are in, most of them are in reddish, not-so-swingy states. It’s the House that is more likely to swing a dozen (or hopefully much more) seats to give the Ds a majority in the ’26 elections.
xephyr
Despite the “serious” concerns some Republican legislators are expressing about Trump’s more insane cabinet appointments, they’ll roll over for him in the end; this will include cooperation with recess appointments. Don’t expect to see any displays of courage and you won’t be disappointed.
The Audacity of Krope
I get this is intended as helpful, but I’m sick of the goddamn two party seesaw. This is why we stagnate, because people just react to a superficial view of the incumbent party and keep power bouncing back and forth based on the short-term feel of the economy.
It’s exceedingly difficult to make a reform and have it stick. Then people wonder why no problem ever gets fixed.
Chris Johnson
@cmorenc: I mean, in theory he could throw over the puppet strings and attack Putin instead. It’s surprising he doesn’t. I go back to this video to try to understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBAnt_w8vvY
This guy, LazerPig, is some sort of wargamer but seems to understand this stuff. Watch the whole thing and it starts to make better sense.
Basically, everybody in Moscow including Putin are in hell of their own making. They earnestly believe EVERYTHING is conspiracy and betrayal, and that’s why they’ve dumped so much of it on us: they think it’s a cheat code.
As such, if they control Trump, he’s not very smart, and he believes all that too since they believe it and can enforce it to some extent.
And so Trump doesn’t actually think Putin is relatively weak: to Trump, the ability to conspire and kill random people with novichok or whatever, makes him like unto a God. This is also why TASS publically reminded him he had responsibilties to Russia: humiliation and domination.
And this is why Trump aims to ruin America following Putin’s apparent instructions: he’s not at liberty to make anything great, he’s constantly threatened and has to obey and even then he might not be safe. He obviously cannot trust any real Republicans.
Nor should he. This-all can only end well :P
TBone
@gene108: that’ll be for Roger Stone. Treasury!
Aziz, light!
@Starfish: Social media brought us to this point; only social media can take us back. Let them bitch to each other, without our engagement, about what tariffs will do to prices, about losing their health insurance, food assistance, public lands, rural hospitals, etc., if those things come to pass.
There’s nothing to be gained from arguing with blue check morons.
Suzanne
@Bupalos:
Agreed.
This is branding.
The other thing to realize is that normies look at us collectively. They see everybody from the president to left-ish journalists to local pols to the random annoying lefty college students in their lives and collapse them altogether in their minds. And that happens over years. So the Democratic Party — as a whole — has a brand.
p.a.
Because of our degenerate media, the Republican’s successful public face is basically performance art/street theater (damn you 1960’s New Left!), so Gaetz, maybe someone else too, will get whacked as cover. Then the job of destroying the democratic process can continue in the background, because that’s just so booooring and process-oriented to cover.
CindyH
@lowtechcyclist: 100%
The Audacity of Krope
This doesn’t need to be the case, though. People need some perspective and to recognize when people are exercising power. Democrats are routinely held responsible for an intemperate Tweet by a loosely Dem affiliated person while elected Republican officials can openly commit crimes and not be held responsible.
Lobo
@Bupalos: My suggestion:
Free States vs. Police States. Where do you want to live? (Get out of the Blue and Red) Nice, short and simple.
The Audacity of Krope
New York might complicate this picture…
Salty Sam
She had policies, and all of us here could enumerate them easily. But that did not stand up to the flood of “She is stupid/shrill/cackles/has no policies!” misinformation that flooded social media, microtargeted at low information (might as well say it- stoopid) electorate.
I’ve asked and asked, and still have not heard a good explanation of how we fight that.
TBone
How to Time Teh Markets comment from elsewhere:
lowtechcyclist
@The Truffle:
Look at the Senators in that class.
Best opportunity: unseat Susan Collins (ME).
Second-best opportunity: unseat Thom Tillis (NC).
Third-best opportunity: unseat Steve Daines (MT)
Fourth-best opportunity: unseat Dan Sullivan (AK).
The first two are 50-50 at best, and the third and fourth much harder than that, and our chances there probably go down to zero chance even in a bad year for Republicans unless Jon Tester and Mary Peltola are our candidates.
Look at the rest of the list, and tell me what other Senate seats we have any realistic chance of picking up.
The fact is, the Senate’s going to be a real problem for us unless/until some more states turn from red to at least purple. There are just too many states where a Dem winning a Senate seat takes a real fluke of an event.
K-Mo
@Leto: I think it’s mostly decided on whether Trump has leverage on them / can control them. Gaetz is the perfect candidate for him because he won’t have anywhere else to go and Trump may even have the goods on him. Gabbard is also in a precarious position and can be controlled via threats. My guess is it won’t work very well out for either of them.
All this is of a piece with how Trump winds up with lawyers who don’t know how to make a motion and doctors who spend the day smoking dope. These people are weak and controllable because they don’t know shit other than how to kiss ass.
different-church-lady
@frosty: Russia still has elections.
ArchTeryx
@The Audacity of Krope: New York really isn’t much different from any blue state. It has a ton of rural areas that are as MAGAt as Alabama, some small deindustrialized purple cities, an enormous amount of segregation, out of control rents and cost of living.
The City (what we upstaters call New York City) is effectively a police state and has been for a long time. It votes tribally D in state and national elections, but it absolutely loves itself some fascist Rs at the local level, and the NYPD has been out of control for decades. The police commissioner effectively runs The City, not the mayor. And every election, The City gets more and more fascist curious at the state and national level, too.
Yeah, it’s complicated here.
Quinerly
Who had “our next DNI Director has connections to a cult whose members eat its leader’s nail clippings” on their bingo card?
I’m thinking Tulsi is a potential hookup for RFK, Jr. Are toe nail clippings considered natural and organic snacks?
https://www.newsweek.com/tulsi-gabbard-has-lauded-religious-leader-accused-running-abusive-cult-1985941
The Audacity of Krope
Take time, now not next election, to promote various forms of literacy; media, sourcing, scientific. There is too much information out there, too much of it is wrong, and people need to learn to sift through it all.
Opportunities and ideas how to do this will differ between people. But a few extra steps on things we’re already doing may help.
Are you and a friend in a conversation and need to confirm a basic fact? Communicate why you trust the source you use.
Take a facet of life you and a friend are already interested in and care about to demonstrate opportunities to help.
Humanity grows best by humans sharing and teaching. We must edify one another and keep up this process, to the best of our abilities, constantly. I mean it is the poorly informed and those who feel isolated giving us the biggest political headaches, no?
different-church-lady
@Lobo:
MORON ELECTORATE: “POLICE STATE, BITCH!”
The Audacity of Krope
@ArchTeryx: All I know is I’ve been banned from driving in New York and I couldn’t be happier.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Senate has been our biggest problem since at least Obama’s election.
ArchTeryx
@The Audacity of Krope: The City or the entire state?
tam1MI
@Chris Johnson: Because it’s a bust-out
What exactly is a “bust-out”? Only definition I could find from Google has something to do with credit card fraud.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: And thereby hangs a tale?
narya
@Salty Sam: Okay, mock me if you wish, but I’m hoping that the Onion buying Infowars is the start of something. On one hand, I’d like to see more people get info from TPM, Pro Publica, Bolts, etc, but, like you, I don’t see a direct path from those places to the news bubble in which so many reside (and which the “mainstream” media influences, e.g., w/ sanewashing, most recently). I would like to think/hope that reporting by the above-noted places will get into the mainstream media and thereby begin to pierce the bubble. Another strategy would be to advertise more NOW: Rick Wilson (spit!) said that immediately countering the misinformation of the R ads is what needed to happen; why not start that now? Ad buys during NFL games? NBA games? etc.
ArchTeryx
@Baud: Senate has been our biggest problem since the country’s inception. They were designed as a House of Lords, and that’s the purpose they serve to this day. We need to do what Britain did to THEIR House of Lords, but unlike in the UK, it will take a Constitutional amendment to do it. And that’s impossible in our current system. NO small state will give up its disproportionate power in the Senate.
The Senate is the #1 reason the country sparrows wield way more power than they should over the city sparrows, although the city sparrows generate almost all of this country’s wealth. And since there are a lot more small rural states than big urban ones, nothing short of a Constitutional Convention is going to budge it.
VFX Lurker
“Hudson, sir. He’s Hicks.”
/also an Aliens nerd
Chris Johnson
@tam1MI: Goodfellas reference. When you have looted a business of all it’s got, you don’t give it to someone else, “you bust it out. You light a match”.
The concern is that Trump’s regime is not actually here to make anyone great again, not even Republican investors in private prisons.
From the look of things and the appointments he’s insisting on, he’s fixing to wreck everything with very little pretense otherwise, so our shit just falls apart completely.
This benefits nobody in the USA, including Republicans, but it serves as vengeance for what was formerly the USSR. Hell of a twist ending, but they do have to pull it off while other Republicans gradually clue in to what’s intended. If it wasn’t that, the Republicans would be able to suggest suitable Republicans to take over agencies. They’re getting frozen out in favor of crazies and vatniks.
The Audacity of Krope
@ArchTeryx: @different-church-lady: The state, and not much of a tale.
I drove my buddy to New York City to get a copy of his birth certificate to apply for his CDL. I went through some tolls. The tolls I observed were physical sites with cashiers who took my money. My understanding was that I paid them all.
But apparently EZ-Pass sent an invoice for others I didn’t notice. I was going through a bout of housing insecurity, so the invoice and subsequent warnings went to an old address. Incidentally, I was paying my EZ Pass account but that only “sees” Massachusetts, not NY.
It came to my attention after only two months, during which time the price ballooned from $15 to $230 and the last notification said I wouldn’t be allowed to drive in the state until I paid.
I will not.
Quinerly
@narya:
About that sale…..https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/15/the-onion-infowars-bankruptcy
Chris Johnson
@narya: Rick absolutely had to go to ground and run away immediately after the election, which I think speaks well for him. I think I’ve seen signs that he’s resumed video-making. No idea what he has to say: he’s the kind of media I’m tuning out at this stage. That said, I think he was for real.
ArchTeryx
@Chris Johnson: More generally a mafia reference. Bust-outs are as old as organized crime. Goodfellas was just the movie that brought the concept to modern audiences.
If the local mafia decides they need some quick cash, or one of their businesses is starting to fail, they’ll remove everything of value – the bust-out – then burn it down for the insurance money. I’ve seen this take place in real time with one of our favorite Italian restaurants upstate.
The Russian mob – aka the Russian government – wants to take that to a national scale with us. Remove everything of value and burn the country to the ground.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: That’s one of the many reasons electronic tolling pisses me off.
VeniceRiley
Ask Alexa to say “coffee bean one hundred” in Welsh.
You’ll be making coffee bean one hundred a code in the coming Nazi times.
tam1MI
@Jeffg166: Why are people talking about future elections? Like they are going to happen. Once the felon gets what he wants the show is over.
Stop pre-complying.
Suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope:
It shouldn’t be the case. But it is.
My theory on why this is so is really about imagecraft and being saturated in media and propaganda our entire lives and that our Neanderthal brains simply cannot cope with the sheer volume of input we receive. So: basically unresolvable.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: I generally like electronic tolling…when I know to expect it.
Then there’s the whole part where it accrued over $200 in fees in two months while I’ve let my MA account languish for over a year and not gotten over like $30.
The NY government can cumulatively go to hell.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Well yeah, but it’s gotten a lot worse.
It hasn’t been that long since we used to pick up the occasional red state seat. Tester, for instance, first won his seat just two years before Obama was elected.
Now it seems the only way to win a red seat from a Republican is to make the state turn purple, like we managed in Georgia. If Sherrod Brown couldn’t hang on to his seat, it’s hard to see when we’re going to win one in Ohio. Same for Tester and Montana. And most red states are much more out of reach than those two.
And after GA and NC, it’s hard to see which former red states we can change to purple. We’ve got a much harder, lower cap on how many Senate seats we can win than we used to. We really need everything breaking right over multiple years just to get to 50 there.
narya
@Quinerly: Yeah, I know it’s not a done deal yet, but it does have the backing of the families, so, fingers crossed.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
Making sure nobody knows when to expect it is by design.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: That may well be. I’ve still never had a problem closer to home.
No Nym
@The Audacity of Krope: “…elected Republican officials can openly commit crimes and not be held responsible.”
This is the vine that grew the pickle we find ourselves in now, IMO, starting with Nixon or maybe even earlier.
gene108
@Salty Sam:
Build better social media micro targeting ad campaigns that can optimize algorithms to maximum benefit.
Folks like Peter Theil are helping Republicans do this.
There have to be some tech savvy Democrats with some money to build this out for us. Looking at what V.P. Harris was able to raise for her campaign, the money is out there. Just doesn’t seem to be any Democratic operatives trying to tap the money to put this strategy together.
The Audacity of Krope
@No Nym: Maybe it may have helped if we held such prominent Republican politicians responsible for their crimes in the past.
Meanwhile I need to hear endlessly about fake crimes that Dems committed supported by only the most spurious of logic.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: It’s kinda weird how MAGA isn’t pissed he never locked up Hillary, no?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Salty Sam:
In the online space, we’d need dedicated people who stomp on GOP stuff all day long. That costs money and time. Plus, I’m not sure how effective it will be. They just lie and the low info people have no idea what to believe, so they pick whatever sounds better to them.
I think the most effective way to counter this is in the real space. Building community, mentoring young people, etc. Their misinformation thrives because of social isolation. Its easy to believe the cities are burning down if you don’t know anyone who lives there. That trans people are evil, if you don’t know them. Its harder for people to want to round you up, if they know you. (There are plenty of examples of people still going that route, but it is harder). I can’t think of any other way to inoculate people against right wing propaganda than for them to see its wrong. That is also challenging, because it costs time, patience, and so much energy. I think it will feel better though.
I’m trying to figure out how to fit this into my own life. I think I’m going to start by sometimes attending services at the local UUC. I’m also going to keep my eye out for other communities I want to be part of and mentoring efforts I think I could make a difference in.
K-Mo
@Chris Johnson: Here’s a one minute explainer from the movie
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_w3QwczL7dg
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: It’s weird unless, now hear me out, none of the drooling Republican masses believe that propaganda any more than we do.
Harrison Wesley
@different-church-lady: They swam around the fishbowl a few times and forgot all about it.
Salty Sam
A large percentage (I believe I saw >20% quoted) is functionally illiterate. Another large number of people don’t give a shit. Those of us that do are effectively talking amongst ourselves.
Suzanne mentioned branding, and she’s absolutely correct. The asymmetrical information warfare against “us” has completely trashed our “brand”. Half of the population is convinced beyond doubt that we are the enemy.
And critical thinking is difficult! Changing their outlook would require work on their part that they are not willing to expend.
Kelly
The USA has rarely been the exceptionally just country I believed we were when I was young. Folks have successfully struggled for justice from positions of far less power than we retain. Discouraged to know we’ll be back and forth with these assholes for the rest of our lives. Discouraged to know some damage will never be repaired.
lowtechcyclist
@different-church-lady:
Nobody expects the electronic tolling! Its chief weapon is surprise.
Salty Sam
No, I would never do that- you are offering honest attempts at solving a huge problem.
But I’m not hopeful that they would help much- see my reply above to Krope. The effort to change their minds about this stuff is too great. Their bubble is so insulated, and it has made “our” brand toxic to them.
The Audacity of Krope
@Salty Sam: The change we need is cultural. We effectively need to make literacy seem cool or at least interesting enough to be worth engaging in.
It might help that our society is due for a collective “what the fuck were we thinking?”
Salty Sam
There might be some, but it’s a matter of motivation. People with the kind of money needed for this kind of effort are more interested in keeping that money (and making MOAR!) than they are socially conscious. The right wing noise machine, micro-targeting, etc, is funded by right wing billionaires who want what the right wing is providing them. We don’t have the will among billionaires to promote the kind of policies and society that we strive for.
lowtechcyclist
@ArchTeryx:
[fantasy]
There’s our answer: the blue states of the Northeast and the West Coast secede, form the Second Republic of the United States (nothing wrong with that, the French are already up to #5), and write a new Constitution, throwing away the Electoral College, the Second Amendment, and either tossing or greatly reforming Senate representation.
[/fantasy]
Salty Sam
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Agree 100%
Soprano2
@different-church-lady: No kidding.
narya
@Salty Sam: Yeah, agreed that it’s a heavy lift, but we have to start somewhere. Or, more likely, a lot of somewheres: I mentioned the ads during sporting events, because that’s where a lot of the most harmful ads were, apparently. Part of the reason the Onion thing resonates with me is that the RW folk HAAAAAATE to be mocked, they want us to Respect Their Authoritay! But mocking has forever and always been a useful strategy. I dunno; I’m still processing, and I have zero power to do anything at that scale (unless I win the lottery!).
Chris
@cmorenc:
1) Breaking things proves he’s important. The entire concept of “disruption” is to effectively wreck an entire industry as a way to scrawl “I WUZ HERE” in indelible ink across the national landscape. It’s a reward in itself.
2) They also almost certainly figure that breaking things just gives them more opportunities; new things to buy up when they’re cheap, new excuses to point at black people, trans people, and liberals and tell your racists “look what they did to you,” more opportunities to shuffle things around to your advantage under the guise of addressing the problem.
p.a.
If covid didn’t do it long term, if The Great Recession didn’t do it long term… 🤷🏻♂️
Are we in one of those Star Trek “we’ve lived this multiple times” episodes? Electorate: “tee hee, let’s do what crazy grampa wants and kick groups x, y, & z in the throat?” “Oh noes, crazy grampa is CRAZY! We’re living on ketchup & rice! Help us
Obi-Wan KenobiDemocrats!” “Whew! Things are so much better we can relax and kick l, m, & n in the throat now!”(Excuse the mixed franchises.)
The Audacity of Krope
@p.a.: At some point, the lesson needs to stick; doesn’t it?
Salty Sam
Agree 100% to this. This is a multi-generational effort that goes against the built-in headwinds of declining educational standards and general anti-intellectualism that has been a hallmark of the American character since the founding. Not seeing it in my lifetime, or maybe even my own sons’.
Starfish
@Aziz, light!: Agreed! There are a lot of “Let’s do BlueSky now” and I am very much “Let’s not.” For a computer person, I sure think we are doing a lot of bad things with the computers.
The Audacity of Krope
@Salty Sam: You’re right here. Though, this is bizarre to me living in a time where education consistently produces marvels we couldn’t have dreamed of 100 years ago.
Citizen Alan
@Baud: The Senate was destined to be our problem for longer than that due to demographic shifts and its inherently undemocratic nature. IIRC, wasn’t there a report predicting that by 2040, over half the US population would live in just 15 states who collectively controlled only 30 out of 100 Senate seats? The majority of the nation will be subject to the whims of the nation’s redneck farmers and all the empty trackless land they own.
Chris Johnson
@Salty Sam: Courage. We outlawed slavery and even made it stick for quite a while. We have collectively been worse than this.
I unironically think it won’t be that hard to make America-the-woke look cooler than living in a fundie gulag without rights and without any cool shit to buy or decent food to eat. In that respect we’re lucky for the enemy we’ve got. If Putin was not such a complete asshole he’d settle for a win and NOT dragging America down to third-world (or indeed former-USSR) levels. He’d move the fuck in, and run our shit, and would have a great time.
But NOOOOO, apparently we gotta be publically humiliated. He can try but it’s gonna piss people off very badly. He’s an idiot.
Salty Sam
Yeah, they hate to be mocked. But then again, I recall that many of them didn’t even realize when Colbert Report was mocking them- they thought he was a real right wing blowhard.
And some GOP Senator used an Onion article (“Planned Parenthood Opens $8 Billion Abortionplex Mall”) as an alarm to fight the real PP.
They are beyond parody!
I’m sorry to sound so negative on yours and others’ suggestions. The election last week broke me- I spent much of the week since looking deeply into this, and I don’t see much hope for a quick and easy solution. I’d give anything for it to be otherwise- I’m now actively shunning family and others who I used to be able to tolerate.
ETA- read the Onion “Abortionplex” article, it’s hilarious. https://theonion.com/planned-parenthood-opens-8-billion-abortionplex-1819572640/
Nettoyeur
The hammer of history will come down one way or another. If we are lucky, Trump II will merely fuck over the US economy like Boris Johnson did. Just look at the UK..painful stagnation and isolation. If we are unlucky, we’ll have a Putin style oligarchy followed by a depression. If we are really unlucky, we’ll have the Fourth Reich, depression and war (could be civil or international) and need a century to recover (if we recover). My guess right now is that the 2nd variant (oligarchy depression) is the most likely, which is why the rich are shifting to cash. If the wave of 2nd passports and emigration of the rich gets serious that is an early sign of the Fourth Reich.
Citizen Alan
@Chris Johnson: Forgive my cynicism, but we only got rid of slavery after the bloodiest war in our history. And what the events of my lifetime have shown me is that the Confederates have learned from their mistake. Instead of seceding and waging war against the North, they should have just stayed on as part of the US but abused Senate rules and other norms of the day to make the nation ungovernable for Lincoln and his party, until the non-abolitionists of the North gave up in exhaustion and said “Okay, fine. Keep your damned slaves.” Which has been the conservative M.O. since Reagan’s day if not earlier.
I stand my belief that by the end of this decade at the latest, there will be serious arguments put forth by conservatives in favor of reinstituting slavery.
p.a.
@Salty Sam: I once joked to a reich-wing relative about a liberal get-together where we roasted fetuses over burning American flags (a one-time joke internet meme) and he was shocked in a How-Could-You! manner…🥴 He’s cut off.
The Audacity of Krope
Arguing that slavery “wasn’t that bad” and “conferred useful skills,” as they do, is effectively that.
Suzanne
@Salty Sam: Dems need to get much, much better at imagecraft. AOC, Fetterman, and a few others are really good at it. The party as a whole is really bad at it.
If it’s any comfort, the GOP is also really bad at it, which is why they were swarmed by Trump.
Lobo
@Chris Johnson: That’s why I like free states/police states. I am open to a different framing. But let’s make the difference easy to digest. Can we keep from nitpicking?
Tony G
What the Republicans are doing is based on the assumption that they will be the only governing party forever.
Chris
@ArchTeryx:
I’ve had a pet theory for a while that police departments are the new political machines. (And none more so than the NYPD, in a city with a long and rich history of machine politics).
Traditionally, big cities especially in the Northeast and Great Lakes tend to come with their own large political machine and/or crime syndicate (usually working together, assuming there’s even a difference between them) that ends up being the unofficial power fraternity in the city. Over the decades, these things have gradually lost power. Good governance reforms and the rise of the post New Deal state sapped a lot of power from the political machines, while things like RICO and major federal crackdowns did a number on old-school organized crime. Basically, places like New York no longer look like Gotham City.
At the same time, however, the budget and resources of police departments have skyrocketed (very much at the expense of literally everything else in most cities’ budgets); their prestige as the infallible guardians of justice has gone through the roof; legal mechanisms to hold them accountable are weaker than ever; and it’s increasingly impossible for anyone, very much including the people they legally answer to, to give them orders. They’re also one of the biggest forces in city politics, as we see in New York City especially with the various mayors’ fortunes owing a lot to their relationship with the NYPD.
In short, while the nineteenth and twentieth century mob bosses and political bosses (though not extinct) just aren’t what they used to be, in the twenty-first century, police departments are the eight-hundred-pound gorilla in urban politics. If I were a crook trying to set up shop in New York City, the kind who in earlier times would have tried to seek protection and offer tithes to Tammany Hall or the Five Families, and I wanted to know which semi-legal fraternity of crooks I needed to come to an arrangement with to make sure my business was left alone? I wouldn’t be knocking on any gangsters or politicians’ doors. I’d be going to the nearest local of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association.
Salty Sam
@p.a.: Ha ha, yeah. I once told my RW mom that I couldn’t come visit because my Soros check hadn’t arrived yet.
It was a joke then, but I just informed her that I would not be coming for Thanksgiving. It’s sad, and hard.
Salty Sam
@Suzanne: 👍
I have been really impressed with the younger voices in the Dem party. They are candles in the wind right now…
Chris
@different-church-lady:
I’m at the point where I think that if you repeated the DS9 conversation between Sisko and Dukat about the virtues of the Cardassian police state in any TV show nowadays, most people literally couldn’t tell that there was anything wrong with Dukat’s POV.
(After all, even Star Trek has basically normalized Section 31).
Bill Arnold
Maybe one of Trump’s evil-est lawyer-henchmen found Gödel’s Loophole, or a part of it.
I mean, “and in Case of Disagreement between them[both Houses], with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper;”
If he thinks “such Time as he shall think proper” is until after midterms, then so it goes. It would be what he “thinks”.
Kelly
@Citizen Alan: Well we left a loophole in the slavery ban which was massively exploited by Jim Crow and an injustice to our current day.
13th Amendment:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
gene108
As far as shifting the culture goes to combat misinformation and disinformation, it’s not about education or literacy. People have been ignorant forever of things that don’t interest them.
The real problem we face is an absolute distrust of expertise, established institutions, and government. This has been building throughout my lifetime. The people who lived through the Depression and thank Big Government for saving them are almost all dead. Their kids, who were raised with the belief Big Government saved America, are in their 70’s and 80’s.
Pretty much anyone under 60 has been raised with whatever distrust Watergate, the Pentagon Papers, etc. engendered and Republicans have leaned into ever since Reagan.
Until people decide that expertise exists, a democratic government can work for people’s benefit, etc., our current path won’t change.
nadjasdoll
If anyone hasn’t seen the pbs documentary Hacking Your Mind, also Perception Deception, you’ll get better idea how Putin’s propaganda works and good examples of why. So many aha moments. That’s the avenue for the question of how to brand good people as the good guys. Understand how the human brain works then use that to model the message. Like Adam says don’t comply in advance. Every time someone hears “there won’t be another election” they perceive it to be a more realistic option. Don’t mean to pick on anyone but watch the PBS docs. If we intend to fight back we should know what we’re up against right?
dnfree
@gene108: I’m in my later 70s, and the Vietnam War lies were what convinced many (not all) in my generation that government should not be trusted.
Mike E
@Lobo: How about: Come with us, if you want to live.
Okay, less facetious: How did COVID-19 work out for you? Don’t become another statistic for the criminally negligent GOP
What works best for the repubs is stoking up strong reactions, and fear-based anger directed at marginalized groups is their big winner. Back in 2020, fear-based anger over family members and close friends dying from the botched pandemic response was the difference for Biden….the Dems didn’t have this powerful, motivated electorate behind them this time around and no other “genius” messaging was going to bridge the gap.
Lapassionara
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Did you see the email I sent you?
Gloria DryGarden
@Lobo:
thank you for your uplifting, positive direction comment:
I’m reminded of the starfish story. A guy is tossing beached starfish back into the sea, at low tide, when so many are stuck , washed up, and likely to die. Someone asks why he bothers, since he can’t save them all. He picks another one up, tosses it into the sea, and says, made a difference to that one.
On the earlier thread, people began reporting random acts of kindness that they had received. Sometimes, at night, when I write down my gratitudes, I write down any random acts of kindness I had done. It’s very sweet, when those opportunities arise.
building up, through small and large acts of self care, community building, and random acts.
Chris
@Salty Sam:
There was an enormous amount of progress made during the hundred years or so between the Civil War and the Civil Rights Act, i.e. when the North was able to break the South’s stranglehold on Washington and impose its cultural model as The American Way. Good governance reforms, economic development, a whole bunch of nerd shit that’s now looked down upon.
I’d like to believe that in my lifetime blue states will somehow be able to similarly flip the script to where they and not West fucking Virginia are the American Ideal. It’s not looking too good right now, though.
Citizen Alan
@Tony G: I have heard people say for years that the GOP’s actions only make sense if you start with the assumption that they don’t ever expect to lose an election.
Lobo
@Mike E:
All hands on deck. It is not a matter of endlessly arguing what is the best. It is a matter of putting it out there and see what sticks. I hate to say it but fear sells. We have to sell fear wrapped in hope, e.g., they don’t care if you die, we will protect and enlarge your health security. I am sure someone can say this better.
Sure Lurkalot
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
And one cause of that social isolation is social media, moreso now than ever, with algorithms that create and then reinforce misinformation and misconceptions. It’s doubly insidious because so many believe and trust that social media is enhancing connection and combating the isolation.
Many comments lately about branding and perception, this influencer, that platform, this message. Everything is advertising, mad men, how to sell, sell, sell. I’m not saying there isn’t truth in that but it is a solution that is part of the problem, structures that place people in isolated silos that get fed more and more to keep them there, thinking they’ve found community.
Hope everyone reads your whole insightful comment and the path you plan to take, it’s good advice.
Gloria DryGarden
@eemom: In the last thread, people began to report random acts of kindness. Maybe we’ll need a daily thread just devoted to such a thing. Positive actions, connections rebuilt. Self care
DougL
@gene108:
This. So much this. What makes the Miracle on 34th Street possible in the early 1950s? The public’s belief in the truthfulness of a government agency!! The US post office delivers letters to Santa Claus. Therefore he must exist. The US post office wouldn’t lie!! Then fast forward to Ghostbusters in the 1980s. Who is the villain? Some dweeby nerd full of himself and his power derived from that all powerful government agency (implied to be useless) the EPA. Support for active government has been worsening challenge since the 1970s. And the liberal presence in most people’s lives has been marginalized to mainly consisting of elite entertainment and academic venues. The rest of the society is coded pretty right wing. Especially media and churches. We are bringing rolled up magazines to a a fight where they’re using ar15s. How do we counter that is the 64k question.
Bupalos
@tam1MI: I think you’re really confused about what pre-complying would actually mean. And assuming that there are to be no more elections or affirming that “Americans just voted for fascism” is a lot closer to the definition than planning future election strategy.
Democracy in America is about to take some damage but it’s pretty unlikely to collapse that quickly.
Ramona
@lowtechcyclist: Kentucky? Andy Beshear to fill the seat McConnell vacates?
Gloria DryGarden
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I too believe we need to build more connections in real time, real life.
Theres a piece of friend-making advice, i heard years ago. For white people, every time you make a white friend, make friends with someone who is black or brown. We could expand this, to if you’re straight, or cis, every time you befriend someone like you, make friends with someone who is trans, or gay. If we know people who aren’t exactly like us, we build circles of care and recognition, and inclusion. We weave a web of protective connections, and feed our spirits.
Salty Sam
Agree with your outlook. However, anti-intellectualism has been a significant part of the American character since the founding. Alexis de Tocqueville wrote about it in the early 19th century. One could probably make the case that as knowledge has increased in the late 19th and 20th centuries (to everyone’s benefit), an equal backlash of anti-intellectualism has risen with it.
Aasimov’s “Your ignorance is not as valid as my knowledge…” is not shared by over half of our citizenry.
Salty Sam
@nadjasdoll: Thanks for that recommend! I’ve been looking for stuff like this!
Harry
I’d just as well have all appointments be recess appointments.
Bupalos
I think the future Dem branding that I want is something like “Get Real”
It would be a kind of anti-online-disinformation, anti bullshit-economy, anti plutocrat thing. Branding us as the real people that do the real work and deal in reality. Playing off a backlash against the way ai and the internet is making the world crazy and scary, and how super rich people make their money fraudulently and even created their own fantasy currency. Extending the “weirdo” critique we started in on this year. I think it would have a lot of pull from the “shit is fucked up and shit” demographic that Trump is pulling.
You could just say it in response to all the manipulative disinformation, like when trump says “eating the dogs” you say “get real,”
“I made the bigliest bestest economy”“Get real.”
nadjasdoll
@Salty Sam: Oh good! It sounds like what you we’re looking for.
siddhartha
@Bupalos
Your comment #49: THIS
We need to communicate at the grade-level at which a majority of the population apparently thinks, hears, speaks, and writes.
Chris
@DougL:
I’d say there’s a hell of a lot of liberal presence in people’s lives, but it’s not usually advertised as such, partly because modern liberal institutions make an absolute fetish out of non-partisanship; non-uniformed government agencies try to project political neutrality, most liberal churches have no equivalent to the right-wing ones’ partisan lien (partly because a lot of their people explicitly don’t want politics in their religion), unions haven’t done political education since the Red Scare, liberal judges and lawyers insist on distancing themselves from the party, and even the media that used to allow reality to filter through and in some places still does if you’re willing to read assiduously has largely self-lobotomized in favor of a “if we make wingnuts mad we must be doing something wrong” mantra.
Most of the liberal things that affect people’s lives, when they still exist, fade into the background and are assumed to be just “normal” rather than having any political slant at all.
Salty Sam
@nadjasdoll: Very much so! Starting it later tonight. Thanks again!
Betty
@JMG: Because recess appointments would be done without hearings. Many of them have lots of stuff they don’t want publicised.
Tony G
@Chris: That’s right. The liberal institutions that we all live with are a type of infrastructure. Most people don’t think about infrastructure until it stops working.
Bill Arnold
@Betty:
Would it be worth threatening to write opposition research (or even published media investigative pieces) about the candidates’ backgrounds into the congressional record? Or just doing it?
Chris
@Tony G:
It’s a type of infrastructure, but it’s a type of infrastructure that doesn’t advertise itself, doesn’t advertise its political alignment, and largely isn’t even aware of (or is in denial about) its political alignment.
rationalman
@Citizen Alan:
I stand my belief that by the end of this decade at the latest, there will be serious arguments put forth by conservatives in favor of reinstituting slavery.
They are already now trying to make women slaves again (bare-foot, pregnant, dependent on husband or father).