Josh Marshall’s podcast comes out on Wednesdays, but I just got around to listening to it. I used some AI to transcribe one section about the institutionalism of the Senate. It’s kind of long, so it’s below the fold. Also, trigger warning, there is some criticism of Democratic Senators, so move on if that bothers you.
Kate Riga [TPM Reporter]: But the reason why I’m nervous that Democrats are just going to plod on the same kind of path than they have been. And when I say Democrats here, I’m talking about the elites, the institutional ones, the ones who wield power, for two reasons.
One, someone asked Durbin about Sotomayor stepping down in the lame duck and getting replaced. This has been kind of bubbling up in the conversation a bit. Maybe 70, she’s diabetic. You hate to do these kind of actuarial tables for people, but it’s the kind of hard–these are realities. It’s the ruthless truth of having a lifetime appointment. And someone asked Durbin about it and he said, “Oh, no, it’s not realistic. We’re not talking about that kind of thing.”
And it’s like maybe there are impediments to doing that. Maybe Manchin and Sinema would be really eager to stick it to Democrats one last time. I don’t know. But it’s classic, right? This kind of preemptive, we haven’t even tried yet, but we’re already giving up kind of thing layered with this notion that it’s uncouth to even talk about it. It’s disrespectful. It doesn’t behoove someone of her stature. And look, I love Sotomayor. I think she’s a great justice. I think her specific niche of bringing real-world suffering into these right-wing hobby horse cases is invaluable. However, that doesn’t mean that a very young, healthy liberal justice wouldn’t vote the same way that she votes on everything, wouldn’t be a valuable voice on the court.
At some point, it can’t be about this hagiography to these figures. It has to be about getting and keeping power, which is something that Democrats just– they act like it’s beneath them, right? Again, it’s uncouth. It’s not something they should talk about.
So that’s one data point.
And then the other is, Schumer initially was not inviting either of the Pennsylvania candidates to the Senate for orientation because that race has been called by AP. But then some stuff came out where the AP was like, “Oh, damn. We didn’t realize there were quite this many ballots outstanding when we made the call.” No networks have replicated it yet. So you do get a real sense of there’s more to go here. And it’s a close race, and it’s coming down to provisional ballots and stuff that comes in late, and that’s counted slowly. Schumer was not inviting anyone.
The Republicans started doing this whole “Election fraud, this is election fraud. Bob Casey isn’t conceding. Didn’t you just spend four years yelling at us for this, and now you’re doing the same thing?” Obviously bad faith bullshit. Bob Casey is not storming the Capitol. He’s just saying, “I don’t know. Maybe we count all the votes in a really close election before we decide the winner.” And guess what? Schumer caved. Guess who was at orientation? Dave McCormick, before that race has been really settled. […]
But you guys got to grow up, and you have got to be able to start detecting when the blowback you’re getting is unbelievably bad faith and start learning to ignore it.
Josh Marshall: 100%. I think another thing– and this is something we’ve talked about at other points in the podcast, and it comes into play, especially with the Senate. It is an elite– by definition and intention an elite institution. But what you see, and maybe to some degree Republicans have their own version of this that they feel Republican voters feel, there is a pattern where Democratic senators, the sort of the top senators, feel that they are a little higher in the altitude or a little more rare. The concerns of Democratic voters are a little beneath them. Right? You’ve got bigger fish to fry here. This is the United States Senate and all this kind of stuff.
And that is, first of all, that’s just not true at a basic level. But you can’t get people all riled up about the consequences of elections and then be dismissive of their attitudes and concerns. And it’s not just unfortunate or you shouldn’t do that. It again, it’s something that breeds cynicism. Because if these things are really that important, then they’re that important. It’s stuff like whether you’re going to pass a Roe law. You say, “Well, OK, this is the Senate. There are realities.” Well, fuck that, man.
And you see it with– I don’t pick on Dick Durbin here. But a lot of senators, they’ve been there for a long time. Again, it’s designed to be an elite institution. There’s a reason it is like that. But you can’t when you get people really riled up.
And look, I believe that basically all of those senators there really believe in abortion rights. They think it’s important. I don’t think they’re lying when they’re saying, “Hey, bodily autonomy is on the line in this election and everything.” But if you believe that, you have to act that when it comes to making basic decisions about what you’re going to do in the Senate. And that disconnect, and now it’s about abortion. It’s been about other things. That is toxic because, again, it creates that disconnect.
That’s why you and I at various points, you put together that kind of updating infographic in 2022 about where different senators are on the filibuster. But with an eye towards passing a Roe law. Obviously, this is just after Dobbs. You have to, that tether has to be there. If people think, “Wow, I really do have to vote and maybe I’m pissed about prices, but I’m sick of this. I’m sick of hearing about these women bleeding out in hospitals in Texas.” So fuck that. I’m going to vote for the Democrats because we need to get this done. You can’t expect people to follow that chain of logic if you’re kind of coming back after the election and say, “Well, okay, look, there’s realities in the Senate that are hard to understand.” Well, then leave. Get us someone who doesn’t understand those realities like us, who will just go and do it.
And because those realities are just, I don’t know, I don’t think these folks, the great majority of them, I think really believe in these policy priorities. I don’t think they grasp the toxic and corrosive nature of that behavior on the possibilities for democratic action in this country.
Note that Kate Riga’s beat is the Capitol and Supreme Court , and she sees the workings (or non-workings) of Congress up close and personal every day.
Watching Trump make the worst set of cabinet appointments in modern history, I keep thinking to myself, well, he’s keeping his word. He’s doing what he said he was going to do, he’s doing it quickly, and he’s putting Republicans in Congress in a bit of a box because he’s demanding to go around them.
Also, on the whole hopeful/optimism thing — the only way I get hope for the future is to discuss how Democrats could take back power, and also to have an honest discussion of the changes we need to make to get there. Josh and Kate started out with a discussion of how, when the Democrats are in power again, we need to expand the Supreme Court. Is that going to happen? I don’t know, but saying “it can never happen” is pre-failing, and that is the death of hope, in my opinion.
Hildebrand
It’s well past time for Durbin and Schumer to give up their leadership posts. The world has passed them by, time to pass the torch.
Steve LaBonne
The framers of the Constitution intended to design a government that would sort of work but not well enough for the masses ever to threaten the interests of the wealthy. They did a good job, and the Senate is their masterpiece. Its effectiveness was enhanced by 19th century Republicans using strategies like creating a bunch of small western states with hardly any people in them. So it goes.
Harry
@Hildebrand:
Sotomayor too. Just like Biden did.
Steve LaBonne
@Hildebrand: The thing is though, Senate Republicans are equally useless in their own way. We’re about to see that as they completely abdicate their own power and prestige to Trump. The institution is unfixable and we can’t get rid of it.
trollhattan
This a.m. BBC World Service went out to find someone to defend the RFK Jr pick and I kid you not, ended up having a lengthy convo with Cory Lewandowski.
I need a new radio.
Soprano2
@trollhattan: You need a new station. I’ve gone off all NPR news, both “Morning Edition” and “All Things Considered”. I can’t listen to them trying to normalize something they know is not normal.
TBone
@trollhattan: did you smash it?
Harry
@Soprano2:
I think NPR was improving under Biden, but they have to appease power.
Soprano2
This, 100%. They need to be able to play hardball more, and simply say “That race has not been decided, the AP call means nothing electorally, and no one is being seated until all the votes are counted and the state of PA has declared a winner”. End of story. Go “gray rock”, just don’t respond because what you’re saying is perfectly reasonable. Geez, they kept Al Franken out of the Senate until July 2009!!!!
hrprogressive
When I keep saying “the old guard needs to go” and “we need a newer, younger party” this is exactly what I mean.
People like Durbin and Schumer are wedded to antiquated traditions and norms that have been dead in the water for 15+ years if not longer because they are privileged and powerful and ultimately their inaction and deference to the GOP does not harm them personally.
I don’t understand why people on here and other websites don’t want to hear that.
I don’t understand why they wouldn’t want a Senate that actually fucking represents them and not Blackrock or ExxonMobil.
It’s maddening enough these Senators suck ass, but it’s Even more maddening that too many citizens want to defend them and accept their bogus bullshit.
Soprano2
@Harry: It wasn’t terrible, but if they won’t call RFK the kook he is, what’s the use of listening to them? It just raises my blood pressure.
Chief Oshkosh
It genuinely pisses me off that there are 70 open federal benches — SEVENTY! — and it’s November 15th. But at least Dick honored the blue slips all the way to the bitter end. They are, after all, the cornerstone of the Constitution.
Mo MacArbie
I’m not seeing how making a supreme court justice retire is the problem of senate Dem leadership. Perhaps the NYT can help us out with 192 articles on it.
syphonblue
The old Dems like Durbin and Schumer have to go. Bye bye, you old fucks. This isn’t the time to cling to norms and keep giving in to Republican bad faith tactics. Learn your fucking lesson already. This is the time to fight.
Chief Oshkosh
@Soprano2: I agree with everything you wrote, our Senators need to play hardball (lord know McTurtle did), but I don’t see how that aligns with Senators needing to go gray rock.
Starfish
Oh, it’s lovely that you added the trigger warning to your post. You should do that with them all from now on.
Trigger warning: Bernie
Trigger warning: A cursed photo of the orange clown who will be President soon
Trigger warning: Cats are assholes
Chief Oshkosh
@Mo MacArbie: I think the point is that they would need to signal to Sotomayor that they would pull out all of the stops to get her replacement seated before Jan 20 if she were to announce that she’s stepping down.
Soprano2
@Chief Oshkosh: What I meant was that the leadership needs to just keep repeating that line over and over to anyone who asks, “The election hasn’t been decided so no one is being invited or seated until the state of PA makes a decision”, and say it over and over again. Maybe gray rock isn’t the right term for that. Don’t respond to the bullshit about “you’re doing the same thing you criticized us for” because we aren’t doing the same thing TCFG did.
Geminid
This could be a Rotating Tag!
More seriously, I hope Senator Durbin retires in 2026. Same with Mark Warner in my state. We’ll find capable replacements.
Bill Arnold
This piece is well-done.
Here Are 10 Absolutely Bananapants Things RFK Jr. Has Said Or Done – He is a dangerous, dangerous man. (Wonkette, Robyn Pennacchia, Nov 15, 2024)
The section headers:
1. Claiming that COVID was bioengineered to spare Jewish and Chinese people …[2]
2. Remember when all of the wackos thought Bill Gates was putting microchips in the vaccine? RFK Jr. was one of them!
3. Telling Joe Rogan That Wifi Causes Cancer, “Leaky Brain”
4. Promoting the very wacky “Great Reset” conspiracy theory
5. They’re using 5G to control our braaaaains!
6. Hey! Here’s a picture of RFK Jr with convicted sex offender Scott Ritter!
7. Saying AIDS is not caused by HIV, but by poppers and “the gay lifestyle”
8. The water is transing the kids![1]
9. Do antidepressants cause school shootings? RFK Jr. thinks so!
10. The time he was largely responsible for a deadly measles outbreak in Samoa[3]
[1] The Alex Jones gay frogs story alledgedly was partially responsible for Trump winning in 2016. Weird (wyrd) story. The paper makes it clear that the effect is specific to amphibians with permeable skin living in contaminated water.
[2] I found and read the papers. RFK Jr was misrepresenting them, maybe had misread them, or didn’t read them. Very small percentage of the those populations has the apparently protective genes. This is common when RFK Jr cites science; cherry picking, bad science, etc.
[3] RFK Jr is a mass killer. I would say that to his face in a crowded room so that everyone within 50 meters heard every syllable.
Chief Oshkosh
@Soprano2: Ah, gotcha.
Steve LaBonne
@Chief Oshkosh: Jan. 3. That’s when the new Senate is sworn in.
Chief Oshkosh
@Steve LaBonne: Glad I’m not in charge. :)
Starfish
I agree with the last part of what you wrote. We have to talk about what Democrats could be doing better.
In general, a lot of us want people who will bring more energy to their jobs and fight for us.
As Democrats, we are susceptible to our own bubbles and are missing some important issues too. We are not missing nearly as many as Republicans are, but we are definitely missing some.
We can’t continue to talk about how great Democrats are when some of them are not even doing the minimum, like some of the ones you mentioned.
Lord Fartdaddy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Worst cabinet in modern history? Try worst cabinet ever.
Quaker in a Basement
I could quibble with much of the TPM report, but I agree with the overall conclusion: current Dem leadership is too old and too comfortable. It’s time for many of them to step back from leadership ositions–not retire, necessarily. It’s helpful for the old heads to stick around and smooth the way for the next gen.
The Dems–specifically the Baby Boomer Dems–have done a poor job of two necessary things: 1) Building a strong bench, and 2) communicating a clear set of governing values.
Salty Sam
Really? My experience was that they doubled down on normalizing RW talking points. There wasn’t a day gone by in the last two years that I didn’t hear “INFLATION! AIIEEEE!”, or sanewashing of Trump.
Exactly. When the G W Bush administration threatened to pull all their funding, they fell into line immediately.
Peale
@Bill Arnold: Yep. If HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, there’s really no reason to prevent HIV. No reason to work on a vaccine, which he probably thinks is harmful anyway. And no reason not to consider pulling PReP from the market as being ineffective and replacing it with custom made injectables and schrooms.
kindness
The next Democratic tri-fecta election we definitely have to expand the Supreme Court to 13 or 15 seats. Right away. Not a year or two later. Results matter and no matter how many great bills you pass & get signed, if the Supreme Court is up there playing Republican goalie, Democrats will never win repeats.
The Truffle
Question: who would replace Schumer or Durbin in the leadership post?
At this point the best we can hope for is the GOP are too busy fighting each other to do much long standing damage.
Meanwhile time to fill those judgeships. I know Biden confirmed a lot. I just think people are ignoring what really is needed: term limits
2026 actually is a bad year for GOP senators because more GOP seats are up for grabs than Dem seats.
trollhattan
Ahhhhhhhhgh!
There video if, well, there’s video.
https://bbc.com/news/videos/cde7x4wkwnpo
kindness
@The Truffle: Democrats will have to ditch the seniority system to ever be free from the likes of Durbin & the old boys. Getting that to fly won’t be coming from inside the Senate.
trollhattan
@The Truffle:
How would Chris Murphy fit the role?
John S.
Hopefully the one good thing that comes out of this election is the replacement of the entire Democratic leadership.
Schumer, Durbin, Pelosi, etc. all need to go. Make room for some young blood, and let their voices be heard so we can actually start winning elections again.
syphonblue
@The Truffle: Hirono, Gillibrand, Duckworth, Lujan, Ossoff, Warnock
This is an issue with the Senate Dems. So many are old moderates who refuse to learn the lessons of the past decade.
stacib
@Chief Oshkosh: Did you forget what they did to Obama with Merrick Garland, and he had an entire year left in his term? There is no way if Sotomayor retires Biden will get to fill that seat. As everyone is saying, the Democrats don’t play hardball – we’re tied to convention.
Peale
@kindness: Yep. It was already a problem for us. Kamala could anounce that she’s going to have a program for seniors to get care in their homes, and the responses from Dems are “well, we won’t have the senate anyway, but thanks for offering.” Its kind of hard to sell your candidate as a change candidate who’ll fulfill their promises of a brighter future, if the “true believers” are jaded like that.
Peale
@trollhattan: O.K. how exactly was he planning on sitting still for what is probably a 19 hour flight with a long layover somewhere.
trollhattan
@Peale:
Zen?
Not one thing about it makes sense. Maybe his parents are still mad at him not getting into medical school and this is his scheme to get back in their good graces. Hope he likes South American prison.
Salty Sam
Someone noted that the younger “firebrand” Dems (AOC, Jared Moskowitz, Jasmine Crockett, etc) came of age long after Newt Gingrich blew up “comity/civility”, but still used it as a cudgel against the older traditionalist politicians. The newer member have no institutional memory of working with “my colleague across the aisle”. And they are better suited to carrying the torch from here on.
Bill Arnold
@kindness:
They should physically compete for leadership positions person to person combat!
Or perhaps, in these more civilized times, through telomere length[1], a gender-neutral approach.
[1] Telomere Length as a Marker of Biological Age: State-of-the-Art, Open Issues, and Future Perspectives (Alexander Vaiserman, Dmytro Krasnienkov, 2021)
Steve LaBonne
@The Truffle: Don’t get your hopes up for 2026. Dems have more seats that are actually vulnerable. We really have only 2 plausible pickup opportunities, Collins in ME and Tillis in NC, and I sure wouldn’t bet the farm on either one.
Salty Sam
I’ve been laughing out loud for ten minutes straight.
The Truffle
@Steve LaBonne: I would not give up that far in advance. Besides, a lot can happen in two years and maybe anti-incumbency will work against the GOP next time?
How about governorships? I would not rule those out.
p.a
Well after all we wouldn’t want Dick, Chuck etc to be snubbed by Republicans in the Senate dining room. How could they enjoy their farro-stuffed quail with Madeira sauce then?
prostratedragon
@Peale: “Security, we’ve got a Class A twitcher in the boarding lounge at gate E.”
The Truffle
@stacib: People like Manchin and Sinema don’t help.
cmorenc
@stacib: The crucial difference with the Obama nomination of Garland languishing a year vs Biden naming Sotomayer’ replacement in the remaining lame duck congressional session is that the Rs had a Senate majority when the SCOTUS seat came open and McConnell blocked the nomination from even coming up on the floor, even though it probably had enough R votes to pass. Biden still has a senate majority until January – the risk is if Manchin and Simena decide to put on a final FU display of petulance on their way out and gum up the works.
Starfish
We have had an unusually high number of Coloradans in the comments threads lately. Indivisible Colorado’s action is to tell Polis to knock it the hell off with his pro-RFK, Jr tweet nonsense.
Starfish
@cmorenc: Couldn’t she say that she will retire in this term if Democrats successfully seat a replacement and take it back if they don’t achieve it?
Bupalos
@Bill Arnold: RFK is a certified look and grifter, and the water isn’t “turning kids trans.”
But of all the bullshit he slings, that one at least drives up a less crazy avenue. The idea that a some of the metabolic and sexual differences observed in global populations (obesity, reproductive cancers, early onset puberty, gender dysphoria) may be related to the proliferation of endocrine disrupting chemicals- especially associated with plastics… that idea pretty clearly has some real scientific merit, though we don’t know how much.
Quaker in a Basement
@John S.: News flash! Pelosi already stepped down from leadership. She hasn’t retired from her seat, and I think that’s good for the party. Having the old team around to help clear the obstacles is a proper role for the emeriti.
Schumer, Durbin? I’m with you fellers!
Mike E
Heh, only Dems have agency and hot takes here call for a culling. Looks like the grieving has devolved into spiralling and troll bait. Nice job!
Quaker in a Basement
@Starfish: Interesting idea. I think it would be hard for Dems to hold confirmation hearings for a seat that isn’t vacant.
cmorenc
@Steve LaBonne: NC has a long history of disappointment by one or two % in Senate and Presidential elections. We are the blue state of the future and have been ever since 1984.
The Audacity of Krope
Anthony Kennedy’s seat that went to Kavanaugh provides a recent precedent for this.
Quaker in a Basement
@Starfish: Already happened. Polis is taking heat here and is already begun the backward dance of deflection.
prostratedragon
@Peale:
Ned Resnikoff on related matters:
A reply in that thread from Rebecca Solnit:
zhena gogolia
@Mike E: Yeah, really, really tiresome.
bjacques
@cmorenc: Like fusion power.
Quaker in a Basement
@The Audacity of Krop
Kavanaugh was nominated before Kennedy’s retirement became effective, but the confirmation hearings didn’t happen before the seat was vacated. Kanavaugh was nominated on July 9 2018. Kennedy’s retirement became effective on July 31. Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings took place in September.
cain
@Soprano2:
If there is one thing that liberals and left leaning folks should do is give up on these media institutions. We are literally giving them permission to ratfuck us by watching.
I’ve been beating the drum for 4-6 years now about how 24 hour news and newspapers are horrible. LIberals are funding everyone of these things and all this time they’ve been working to destroy us.
In the next 4 years, they will go back to the old playbook to start dropping all the beyond the scenes gossip. They’ve already doing this with Musk and Trump on the outs or GOP uncomfortable about Gaetz.
We are now in a mental state where we are looking for all kinds of good news. So we’re going to grab on to these things just like we did in 2016. At least recognize the pattern. Stop feeding the machine, front pagers. Grab sources from people who doing the yeoman’s work of digging into the details directly, not whatever fucked up headlines people are coming up that are now being boosted by liberal “influencers”. It’s one big scam.
The Audacity of Krope
@Quaker in a Basement: My mistake. I thought that we had a recent experience of that sort of provisional retirement and that it was that one. Sorry.
Starfish
@Quaker in a Basement: I thought there were conditions to Kennedy’s retirement, and some of those conditions involved giving the seat to Drunk Bro McRapeface
Oh, I see had the same impression that the The Audacity of Krope had.
taumaturgo
@hrprogressive:
Accountability is long overdue, but they keep whistling pass the graveyard, on to cash the next check from the donors then to the next election debacle. Watch what they do, not what they say.
cain
@Lord Fartdaddy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
We thought that of 2016 cabinet. Somehow we managed to survive.
This time they really mean it, pinkie swear.
But this time Trump doesn’t really give a shit, he’s going to do whatever he wants and see what he can get away with.
Wait till these old senators find DOJ coming after them. That’s when it’s going to hit them.
prostratedragon
“backward dance of deflection?”
Steve LaBonne
@prostratedragon: Yeah, my trans friends sure as hell don’t have the option of complying in advance. Their suicide is the only compliance that would be acceptable to the fascists.
The Audacity of Krope
Is complying in advance keeping my job or leaving it?
ETA: Ordination win, nice.
The Truffle
@cmorenc:
But NC has elected Dem senators before. I actually read the current head of the NC Dems is into rural outreach, which is good.
prostratedragon
@Steve LaBonne: Agggh!🤬 But that kind of sacrifice only could work against people with a conscience. If all else fails, denying them the satisfaction might get one through a rough night.
Steve LaBonne
@cmorenc: Don’t get me wrong, I think we could win in ME and NC. But all the other Republican seats up are in deep red states and we could lose Peters in MI and Ossoff in GA. At best we might gain one seat net. It really isn’t a good map.
Geminid
@Quaker in a Basement: I don’t look for much change in Senate leadership these coming two years. At least, Caucus members don’t seem restive. Most of them have worked with Schumer when he was Minority Leader and they must have liked what they saw.
As for our Senate bench, I think we improved it this past election. The four youngest of our new Senators– Angela Alsobrooks (52), Elissa Slotkin (48), Ruben Gallego (44) and Andy Kim (42) all look like capable Senators and politicians. I thought that was some good bench building.
I think Ben Ray Lujan is a solid bench player. Luhan rose fairly high in House leadership before he advanced to the Senate.
Jon Ossoff is a very talented Senator with a lot of potential. He has to get past a tough reelection in 2026, though. Ossoff’s Georgia colleaugue Raphael Warnock has a lot of leadership ability also. So does Tammy Duckworth, I think.
Steve LaBonne
@prostratedragon: I’m certainly not suggesting they do that! Just pointing out that I could keep quiet and stay out of trouble but they have no such option.
taumaturgo
@John S.:
From your post to all the deities, bar none.
Who will be nominated to run the DNC, another Washington hack? Rahm Emanuel name is being floated for the position, which point to how little are they willing to learn from the election.
The Audacity of Krope
That’s learning…the precise wrong lesson.
Chief Oshkosh
@stacib: No, I didn’t forget that Obama was facing a Republican Senate majority led by McTurtle.
Biden is not facing a Republican Senate majority. Until Jan 3, in theory, our Senate leadership could pull a reverse-McTurtle and consent to Biden seating a replacement for Sotormayer. What’s being discussed here is how unlikely that would happen because Chuckie and Dickie just don’t see that as their job.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
The story I saw is that the person floating RH was David Axelrod, whose now a commentator on cable IIRC and a longtime douchebag. Maybe there’s a Dem official who has also endorsed that proposal, but I’m not aware of any.
taumaturgo
Oh no, Nancy Pelosi files for reelection in 2026. Democrats are in extinction mode, nothing can possibly sake lose their thirst for power, voters be dammed.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh: Maybe, but our Senate majority still requires the consent of either Manchin or Sinema.
Baud
@taumaturgo: Oh no!
Steve LaBonne
@Chief Oshkosh: Is there any evidence that Sotomayor could be persuaded to step down?
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: Yo, Axelrod helped get Obama elected then something happened shortly after that fried his brain.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Manchin has actually said that he won’t be a dick on filling lower court vacancies.
bbleh
@Hildebrand: @hrprogressive: @syphonblue: @John S.: @Salty Sam: Hear hear! They’ve been minimally effective in the majority and utterly ineffective in the minority, and they’re already acting like they’re in the minority WHEN THEY’RE NOT YET. As an Old, I agree: get rid of the Olds!
As to Pelosi, though, I will note that she DID step aside, pretty gracefully. And of course when she was in the majority, she was about as effective a leader as can even be imagined.
But the Senate, OMG. Burn them all.
prostratedragon
@Steve LaBonne: Quite, I didn’t mean to be taking issue, just pointing out a desperation argument one can use on oneself. It’s worked in the past.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
Yeah, I saw that. We don’t know what he would do about a Supreme Court position though. He’s frankly kind of flakey.
bbleh
@Baud: I gotta say, that’s another thing I don’t like about the present Dem “leadership.” What would Lyndon Johnson have done with a couple of preening lightweights like those two? Would their bodies even have been found?
You can’t exert leadership when you’re hiding under your desk.
Baud
@bbleh:
I don’t know. Different time, different dynamics.
prostratedragon
@bbleh: Schumer did manage to get a lot of Biden legislation around potential filibusters, sometimes using some parliamentary chicanery.
John S.
@bbleh:
I appreciate that she stepped aside for Hakeem Jeffries, but she’s had plenty of time in her emeritus role.
Between how she handled the Biden situation and insisting we were going to win the House, I think it’s time for her to retire before she does anything else to dent her overall very excellent legacy.
The Audacity of Krope
Bears repeating. Also worth noting the weasel tactic she took about Biden became the model for too many other prominent elected Dems. I seriously considered not voting for Warren this year.
bbleh
@prostratedragon: he did; he’s not entirely without skills, and sometimes the soft approach does yield results. But it doesn’t seem like they know any other, and it’s been apparent for DECADES that Dems are bringing butter knives to the fight.
McConnell is not NEARLY the clever politician he gives himself credit for, but he certainly does understand shamelessness, and when you got an opponent who plays that way, the Marquess of Queensberry Rules kinda don’t do very much for you.
Geminid
@taumaturgo: I don’t think Rahm Emanuel is right for the job. His best work is over a decade behind him. Maybe Emanual’s proponents are motivated in part by nostalgia.
I was thinking about this post and it occurred to me that sitting governors have been national Chairmen before. That made me think Jay Pritzker could be good for the job. Pritzker is a good communicator and would represent the Party well.
Geminid
@Geminid: I forgot Cory Booker.
bbleh
@John S.: what, from her district? Nonsense. And at least from what I’ve read, she was one of the ones pushing hardest for Biden to step aside, and — not that I want to relitigate THAT — I don’t think she was wrong.
She’s a back-bencher now. And if the leadership want to consult her on tactics or draw on her memory, what’s wrong with that? They could do a hella lot worse!
As to her saying Dems would win — please. What was she supposed to do? Say “OMG we might LOSE!!” I’m sure that would have earned her all sorts of praise
(Also btw, emeritus — or in her case emerita, ahem — status typically is given to people who HAVE retired and it’s basically lifetime, such as they have left.)
John S.
@bbleh:
Frankly I’m tired of hearing from her or about her. She’s not the face of the party. And I’m tired of hearing people here defend her at all costs as if she’s somehow a demigod immune from the criticism of mere mortals.
It’s time to move on.
Feinstein and so many others were/are just way past their prime. Politicians were never intended to hold office until they die of old age.
The Audacity of Krope
How about…neither of those things? She could have said something else entirely or nothing at all.
John S.
@The Audacity of Krope:
Yeah, what a concept. Instead, she made sure to fill up as much air time as the cable bookers were willing to give her, and not all of those appearances were really all that helpful.
Like I already said, she was one of the great Speakers, and I just think it’s time for her to retire.
bbleh
@John S.: @The Audacity of Krope: okay, so the former Speaker, arguably the best legislative leader in at least one generation and maybe two, who DID step aside to allow a younger generation to take over and has been nothing but supportive of them and has not noticeably tried to “lead from retirement,” nevertheless is … brace yourselves … sought out by the media for quotes, and provides about the most anodyne ones possible.
Yes, this definitely is cause for a hate-on.
Whatever, evidently nothing further to be said here.
John S.
@bbleh:
Nope, nothing to say at all. Even when we agree that she has been a fantastic leader, you still feel compelled to treat her as some sort of godlike figure that should be immune from even the most minor critique. You can put her in the menagerie with Merrick Garland and the other legendary figures that shall brook no dissent from the commentariat.
It’s not a great look when we observe people do it on the right, and sure isn’t a good look when we do it. Peace out.
lowtechcyclist
@hrprogressive:
I think this very much needs to be said, and said now.
I’m tired up to the eyebrows of all the “what the Dems did wrong in the 2024 election season” because it’s over, the next election is two years off, and there’s plenty of time to analyze the lessons later on when people have healed a bit.
But this is about NOW. What our party needs to do right away. We’ve got a moment here, and it needs to be taken advantage of before it’s gone. We can call the White House, we can call our Senators if they’re Dems. We can even call our Representatives, because there’s no reason why they can’t talk to Sotomayor on our behalf.
We get a new Senate on January 3, so there isn’t much time. What we can do is hit the phones, so let’s do it.
John S.
@lowtechcyclist:
Yeah, good luck with that. If the prevailing views of the folks around here is any indicator, the Democrats are going to cling to these people because… reasons.
Bill Arnold
@Bupalos:
Oh, no argument there, that is clearly true and a bit scary even. The issue that Alex Jones was talking about was with a particular agricultural pesticide, atrazine, contaminating water in which amphibians live or at least reproduce.
lowtechcyclist
@The Truffle:
You said this in this morning’s Good Reads thread. I responded in comment #67 there.
Short version: there’s really only a few seats we have a decent shot at. Most of those GOP seats are in states where we haven’t a prayer.
Look at the list for yourself.
rikyrah
If Sotomayor is asked to step down, then so should Kagan.
eemom
@John S.:
Pelosi also took a gratuitous shit on Biden and Harris last week a with her “woulda/coulda/shoulda had a competitive primary” remarks to the Fascist Times.
Amidst all of our collective shock and heartbreak. And exactly what constructive purpose did that serve, other than to kiss her own ass?
Fuck her. And to take your point one step further, fuck all those here who are knee jerk apologists for the likes of her and Garland. That is, indeed, exactly what the trumpfucks do.
Kathleen
@cain: We could share local good news stories. In deep red Ohio, sab said Dems did well in her area (I think she’s in Cleveland area). Cincinnati enjoyed success (flipped the prosecutor seat, in which a Republican had been planted since 1932). Our female LBGTQ sheriff was reelected, as was our OH#1 Congressman both quite handily (thanks to BJ for raising funds). Franklin County/Columbus usually has good news to report also but I’m not sure who here is from Columbus.
And not just politics. Stories about the arts, community engagement, small businesses.
lowtechcyclist
@John S.:
I agree that it’s unlikely that we’ll have any effect, but dammit, we should try. I’m not ready to give up in advance.
Draco7
This whole pattern of behavior strikes me with the image of hiring an army to protect the weak and vulnerable of a nation, then when the attack comes finding out they are all conscientious objectors.
Read the current Bob Bauer piece on Lawfare after linking from the previous post, and rugged institutionalism was still the flavor of the day for him. I’m not clear how these people can cocoon themselves in the imaginary rule of law when a voting majority of the populace has said that they don’t want the rule of law.
Jinchi
Manchin and Sinema would absolutely screw over the Democrats on the way out. Forcing Sotomayor to step down would be a very stupid move.
trollhattan
@cmorenc: “We are So Blue, take that back!”
Hey, you at least gave that Robinson kook the boot, so good on ya for that. I’ve been poking around at NC growth patterns since the kid moved there, and note most of your metro areas have grown a lot, which makes me wonder about shifting demographics resulting from that growth.
With over 10 million now you are one bigass state.
Emily B.
Called my senators to tell them to confirm Biden’s remaining judicial appointees NOW. Also agency appointments with years-long terms.
Those were key takeways from the Indivisible organizing call this week, also from a panel of law professors at NYU that included the president of the ACLU. Scary stat: A quarter of the federal bench is already made up of Trump judges.
John S.
@eemom:
Just look at this post itself! MisterMix felt the need to call out that there would be criticism of Democrats and then put it below the fold. That’s how weird things have gotten around here.
cain
@Kathleen:
That’s great to hear and it shows that we will need to make minute progress from the ground up.
I actually think that in these 2 months that there should be a listening tour by Harris and others to really understand what’s going on here.
Equity has been a big thing for us and it should continue to be but the people who want equity are also not showing up to vote it seems.
AWOL
@Mike E: Yup. If any fascists are lurking, they’re reading everything they want to hear from a few souls here.
They live on fear. They mainline it 24/7/365.
Walk strong. Be intelligent.
They have a severe handicap: They’re insane.
The Truffle
@lowtechcyclist:
I saw it. I don’t think we should assume anything this far in advance. In 2026, anti-incumbent sentiment could shift the other way. At least aim to replace Collins and Tillis.
Governorships and state legislatures should be just as important. Maybe even more so.
But I would be perfectly happy winning the House back.
Honestly, though? I could expect a lot of GOP infighting in the next two years. Maybe the Dems need their own Contract with America in the meantime?
Archon
Outrage is fine but the damage was done on election day. The only thing that matters at this point is making sure there are elections in ’26 and ’28.
Something Fabulous
@Jinchi: ONE
HUNDRED
PERCENT
tam1MI
I’d like to see Beto O’Rourke or Stacey Abrams give it a shot.
Bobby Thomson
tl;dr – Schumer continues to suck
Another Scott
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that this is a not even a nothingburger – it’s a micro-nothingburger.
Casey is a senator and has been a senator for a long time. He knows how the senate works and doesn’t need to attend an “orientation”. Having a new guy who might ultimately win the race attend the orientation could simply be a courtesy, to make sure he can hit the ground running and to make sure that staff isn’t wasting their time later on one new guy if he does win the final count/recount.
There are plenty of things to be mad about these days. This orientation thing would be way, way, way down on the list for me.
YMMV.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Gloria DryGarden
@rikyrah: asked? Can we ask Alito and thomas and amy catholic b to step down? For Pete’s sake!
MinuteMan
They’re a legend in their own minds.