Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Come on, man.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Giving in to doom is how we fail to fight for ourselves & one another.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

I did not have this on my fuck 2025 bingo card.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

This fight is for everything.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Crabs In The Bucket

Crabs In The Bucket

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Since the election, I’ve mostly tried to keep my hot takes to myself, which is why I’m usually posting about flooded rivers, birds and turtles these days. Not only are hot takes unreliable by definition, they tend to be based on the hot takers’ priors and often seem designed to air grievances more than enlighten. Josh Marshall described the pitfalls of recriminations in a recent post (gift link):

[B]eing anti-recriminations, whatever that might mean, doesn’t or shouldn’t mean people shouldn’t try to figure out what was done right or wrong, criticize whoever needs to be criticized… [I]n the desolation of a really, really hard defeat, a very consequential one, people shouldn’t rush in to take shots at the folks they’ve always had it in for, using the devastation less as a wound to overcome than an opportunity for the old score-settling.

Aside from hard feelings, another danger is that hostility among people shut out of power can devolve into crab bucket politics, where no one gets ahead because the outgroups perceive politics as a zero-sum game and pull down anyone else who appears to make progress. That’s doing the authoritarians’ work for them.

History and the present reality in the U.S. and around the world are instructive here. One thing we know is that modern authoritarians tend to hollow out democracies while leaving the trappings in place so they can claim legitimacy. That’s the situation in Hungary, where Viktor Orbán’s party holds elections but creates hurdles that make challenges to their rule insurmountable.

That was also the reality of the Jim Crow South, where authoritarian state governments regularly held elections but disenfranchised eligible voters and used terrorism and other tactics to squelch dissent to ensure one party’s monopoly on power.

I think most of us would agree the incoming right-wing kleptocracy intends to establish an authoritarian government. Oligarchic wealth is one lever of control they’ll use. I read somewhere that Musk has threatened to fund primaries against any Repubs who don’t roll over for Trump II.

He probably won’t have to spend much since pretty much anyone with a spine or a conscience has already been expelled from that party. But if the kleptocracy wants to maintain the imprimatur of legitimacy with future elections, it will take some time to demoralize, persecute and hollow out the political will of the non-Republican majority.

So, we’re in a race against the clock to stop the oligarchs from entrenching power permanently. In other words, we don’t really have time to squabble among ourselves. That’s my hot take.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

197Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    I’ll leave it to young people to debate the future direction of the party. I’m going to try to focus on Dem positives, Republican negatives, and correcting misinformation and fighting propaganda.

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    Thank you, Betty.  I am tired of the derision towards people who are very likely as devastated as ourselves.

    Eyes on the prize, in this case, not becoming Hungary.

  6. 6.

    Elizabelle

    Yeah.  Figuring out how to combat disinformation is going to be another struggle, especially with those who most benefit from its dissemination controlling the levers of power.  For now, anyway.

  9. 9.

    Fair Economist

    More generally, when you’re fighting fascists, you have to work with *everybody*. It’s the ally with Stalin principle. I guarantee you none of either the obnoxious left purists or the centrist sellouts are anywhere near as bad as Stalin was. We can do it.

  10. 10.

    Quinerly

    Sooo…Linda McMahon wanted Commerce for her more than $10 million contribution to Trump campaign. Education was a consolation prize when Lutnick got Commerce.

    Anybody got any bets on who ends up with Treasury?

  11. 11.

    narya

    Is there a way–once the data are available–to identify the places where the vote is most suppressed and where there may be receptive voters? We may have to create the reception, of course, and I’d want to dig into what “most suppressed” might mean; I can envision multiple indices. I’m thinking of things like distance to polling places, insufficient polling places (long lines), throwing voters off the rolls, etc.  What can we learn from the elders who led the voting rights efforts in the 1960s? What can we learn from Ben Wickler’s efforts in Wisconsin? How can we corral the efforts of folks like me who are in deep blue areas but have internet access? Those seem to me to be more fruitful than fingerpointing–and those efforts can also serve to correct misinformation and fight propaganda, as Baud highlights. I don’t think there’s a single right answer, but I’d much rather see a lot of smaller efforts than One Big Thing

    ETA: I envision multiple indices because not all forms of suppression or low voting have the same solution.

  12. 12.

    TBone

    Thank you BC for posting a song I didn’t know I needed today!  New to me, so grateful to always learn new things at BJ! 💜

    Plus this this this:

    That’s doing the authoritarians’ work for them.

  13. 13.

    Steve LaBonne

    The fundamental thing behind all the craziness is that democracy has been on life support ever since economic inequality hit Gilded Age levels and kept on going. Like everyone else I have no idea how we get out of this trap short of a wealth-destroying catastrophe.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    @narya:  That’s a great suggestion.

    Incidentally, did you decide to go forward with updating your food blog?  I think it was you …

  19. 19.

    H.E.Wolf

     [I]n the desolation of a really, really hard defeat, a very consequential one, people shouldn’t rush in to take shots at the folks they’ve always had it in for, using the devastation less as a wound to overcome than an opportunity for the old score-settling.

    – Josh Marshall

    This would be useful to post on our own bathroom mirrors. Self-reflection, along with self reflection. I know myself well enough to realise I can always use more of that.

  20. 20.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Quinerly: By that definition, shooting Hegseth right in the head while he sleeps wouldn’t be murder. I’m not sure he thought that through.

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @narya: I don’t think there’s a single right answer, but I’d much rather see a lot of smaller efforts than One Big Thing.

    Since the election result probably was due to a bunch of factors (some of which we can’t really combat) and was really close, our fix should be similar.  Working for a percentage here and a fraction of a point there can add up.  Probably more doable than One Big Fix, about which I am always a bit cynical.

  22. 22.

    Elizabelle

    @Steve LaBonne:

    democracy has been on life support ever since economic inequality hit Gilded Age levels and kept on going.

    Yep.  We keep seeing this throughout history.  At least, “we” keep seeing it.  Am always amazed by those not aware of it, or who willfully ignore the possibility.

  23. 23.

    gene108

    Steve Bannon’s “flood the zone with shit” strategy of overwhelming the public’s ability to tell truth from lies really manifested in 2024.

    I don’t see how to handle this. For example, the hostility towards transgender women (no one seems to freak out as much about trans men) just overwhelmed any ability to counter it through moving public sentiment, like the backlash the North Carolina bathroom bill caused in 2016 created.

    Democrats had to respond to protect transgender people’s rights and ability to exist, but the result in 2024 is Democrats protect trans people and not “you”. This really reminds of the 1990 NC Senate race when Jesse Helms pulled something similar with affirmative action taking white people’s jobs to be beat Harvey Gantt or the 1988 Willie Horton ad.

    Lie about something or distort the scale of the problem and blame your opponent for caring about “them” and not “you”, but at one million times the reach thanks to social media.

    If people want to believe the lies, I don’t see how the truth can find a way to stay relevant for many people.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    @gene108:

    Lie about something or distort the scale of the problem and blame your opponent for caring about “them” and not “you”, but at one million times the reach thanks to social media.

     
    First step IMHO is to not engage in that behavior ourselves.

  26. 26.

    gene108

    @Quinerly:

    Anybody got any bets on who ends up with Treasury?

    Mnuchin was surprisingly competent as Treasury Secretary. I hope the country gets lucky again.

  27. 27.

    narya

    @Omnes Omnibus:  Exactly. I’m thinking now of the differences between states where Harris/Walz campaigned a lot and the states where they didn’t: boosting turnout–and knowledge!–in blue states has at least two benefits I can think of, down ballot wins in close races and more-informed voters who maybe have friends/relatives in other swingier states. (I’m not criticizing the Harris campaign! I still can’t believe what an amazing campaign she put forth in three months.)

  28. 28.

    Redshift

    Thanks for one of the few hot takes I’ve heard that is actually worthwhile, Betty! I’ve had the same reaction — most of them are people saying “I was right all along” when at best there isn’t enough data to know yet and they’ll almost certainly turn out to be wrong.

  31. 31.

    ArchTeryx

    @Fair Economist: Stalin was the ultimate ally of convenience. He was every bit as bad as Hitler and Hirohito, and had a higher body count than the two of them combined. But he wasn’t interested at the time in trying to take over the world. He was happy to work with Hitler to parcel out Eastern Europe, but Hitler broke his pact with him and invaded, anyway. He saw Hitler as an existential threat to the fledgling USSR, so joined the Allies. And it was his troops, thirsty for revenge for a million plus dead at Stalingrad, that stormed Berlin and ended the war. Only after the war did we focus on the threat of the USSR.

    IIRC, a whole lot of high ranking Nazis, up to and including Hitler himself, committed suicide rather than let the Russians get hold of them. They were out for blood and took no prisoners. Us Americans, without 30 million dead behind us, were a little more merciful.

  33. 33.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Baud: “The first step of the courageous person is to not participate in the lie.” -Solzhenitsyn (or at least, that’s the gist of it)

  34. 34.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Fair Economist: I guarantee you none of either the obnoxious left purists or the centrist sellouts are anywhere near as bad as Stalin was.

    What about obnoxious centrist purists or leftist sellouts?

  35. 35.

    Suzanne

    Aside from hard feelings, another danger is that hostility among people shut out of power can devolve into crab bucket politics, where no one gets ahead because the outgroups perceive politics as a zero-sum game and pull down anyone else who appears to make progress.

    There’s also specific resentment at those who are kind of adjacent to one’s own group on the social hierarchy. Right? It’s a thing I observe and find deeply weird. Like, they resent those people who are doing just a little bit better…. But not the billionaires hoarding wealth. Hostility to those who struggle a bit and need some public assistance, but have some pity for the extremely destitute (as long as they’re the good kind).

  37. 37.

    SFAW

    @Quinerly:

    Anybody got any bets on who ends up with Treasury?

    The smart money is on one of the following:

    iDJiT Jr., Charles Ponzi, or Willie Sutton.

     

    OK, maybe not the “smart” money, but still …

  38. 38.

    catclub

    So, we’re in a race against the clock to stop the oligarchs from entrenching power permanently.

    Although one could argue that the oligarchs were entrenched about 1787.

  40. 40.

    Jackie

    NC GQP hijinks 😡

    The Republican-led North Carolina House advanced a bill Tuesday to earmark an additional $227 million in relief aid for victims of Hurricane Helene — a measure stuffed with unrelated provisions aimed at stripping power from the governor, attorney general and other incoming Democratic leaders.

    The effort comes on the heels of victories in this month’s elections by Democratic Governor-elect Josh Stein and Democrat Jeff Jackson, the congressman who won the race for attorney general.

    The vote passed the House 63-46 late Tuesday. The state Senate is expected to approve the bill on Wednesday. If it passes the chamber, it would go to Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper, who could approve it, veto it, or let it pass without signing it.

    The bill has skipped typical processes for debate and committee-level vetting, being released to the public just minutes before Tuesday’s session began. Republican leaders in the House and Senate met in secret to hammer out the details ahead of the vote.

    Much more detail at the link: https://www.wral.com/story/nc-house-votes-to-strip-power-from-incoming-democratic-governor-ag-as-part-of-helene-aid-bill/21729412/

    Outgoing Gov Cooper will undoubtedly veto it; and it will be overturned by the GQP majority congress. Not a welcome beginning for incoming gov-elect Stein and his AG- elect.

  41. 41.

    p.a.

    @ArchTeryx: IIRC as the Red Army approached German territory and the end was obvious to anyone not in the bunker, many high military hoped to surrender to the allies and unite with them to hold off the Soviets.  Allied command: FY, but I think there were some civilian pols on the right (US & England) who were “hmmmmm…”

  42. 42.

    zhena gogolia

    @gene108: When a friend told me she watched a Mets game with her husband and they kept showing an ad with a “scary-looking” trans person, I thought, “Willie Horton,” and got sick to my stomach.

  43. 43.

    bluefoot

    @Steve LaBonne: From the young people I know, this is a big part of it.  All of them (20-somethings) voted for Harris, but weren’t enthusiastic.  Many are politically engaged and understood the stakes.  But what they’ve told me is they don’t think Democratic political leadership truly understands the stakes for the next generation – how difficult it is to get by unless you’ve been born into wealth, how truly afraid they are about climate change, their awareness of how little time there is to affect change. They feel that the system needs radical change, but there aren’t mechanisms with which to do that.  Especially since one party – up until they have regained power – just obstructs or worse.  Maybe this is why people stayed home (however nihilistic staying home was) instead of voting?

    (I say this as a person of color who is frankly terrified about what is to come.  While perhaps I can understand the motivation of some people for not voting, however misguided, I think the majority are the type that would be bystanders watching – and enjoying – a Black person being attacked or worse by a group of “good old boys.” They’ve stood by for the burning down of our country.)

    I also think there’s a loss of memory of the myriad ways things can get bad, big and small.

    As for where do we go from here: I think we try everything we can think of and keep trying.  As I’ve said before, we don’t know what went wrong, so to speak, and it’s probably a lot of things that incrementally add up to where we are now. So we need to try everything and see what works for any particular situation. I’m *tired* and want to just stop, but I can’t. I don’t have a lot of hope for myself, being a cranky old brown person, but I need to hope for the future.

  45. 45.

    ArchTeryx

    @Suzanne: Easy. The billionaires may as well be living on Mt. Olympus. The Greeks didn’t constantly cuss out their gods – they “knew” that if they did, there would be the underworld to pay. Kicking down, or kicking your neighbor, is far less risky than going after the gods.

  46. 46.

    Redshift

    @narya:

    Is there a way–once the data are available–to identify the places where the vote is most suppressed and where there may be receptive voters? We may have to create the reception, of course, and I’d want to dig into what “most suppressed” might mean; I can envision multiple indices. I’m thinking of things like distance to polling places, insufficient polling places (long lines), throwing voters off the rolls, etc.

    I think there will be groups gathering that info (Fair Fight, for one), and we should watch for that. I think there’s no question it was part of what happened — less-committed voters are the easiest to suppress — and it may be an area where people like us can do something.

  47. 47.

    catclub

    @Elizabelle: Eyes on the prize, in this case, not becoming Hungary.

     

    Mmmm, Beef stroganoff, mushroom stroganoff,  Dobosch Torte,  what were you saying?

  48. 48.

    Quinerly

    @SFAW:

    I don’t think Trump wants to fuck up Treasury.

    Lutnick is a big proponent of tariffs. Very interesting that Musk didn’t get what he wanted….Lutnick in Treasury. Should get even more interesting if an anti tariff, ex Federal Board of Governors type gets Treasury. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is where Trump is going.

  49. 49.

    p.a.

    @ArchTeryx: The billionaires may as well be living on Mt. Olympus. The Greeks didn’t constantly cuss out their gods – they “knew” that if they did, there would be the underworld to pay. Kicking down, or kicking your neighbor, is far less risky than going after the gods.

     

    The joke/not joke from Grindlewald Gingrich and “The Ownership Society” was: you better get yourself an owner quick.

  51. 51.

    Elizabelle

    @Quinerly:  Watch out on the wording here; Hegseth indeed published the column in the Princeton Tory, but he did not write it.  Author was John Andrews, class of ’05.  Be interesting to see what he got up to in later life.

    Not directing this at you per se; the Vanity Fair article does not make clear the actual author was another undergrad.

    FWIW, in the very same issue of the Princeton Tory, we have the usual going straight to marrying dogs when the topic of same sex marriage comes up.

    per Judd Legum in Substack:
    13 things everyone should know about Pete Hegseth

    https://popular.info/p/13-things-everyone-should-know-about

    In September 2002, during Hegseth’s tenure as publisher, the Princeton Tory published an unsigned opinion that compared same-sex marriage to incest and beastiality. The piece denounced the New York Times’ decision to publish same-sex marriage announcements, arguing, “At what point does the paper deem a ‘relationship’ unfit for publication? What if we ‘loved’ our sister and wanted to marry her? Or maybe two women at the same time? A 13-year-old? The family dog?” In October 2002, a piece in the Princeton Tory stated that “boys can wear bras and girls can wear ties until we’re blue in the face, but it won’t change the reality that the homosexual lifestyle is abnormal and immoral.”

  53. 53.

    Steve LaBonne

    @bluefoot: Yes, that’s exactly how plutocracy destroys democracy. People lose interest because they don’t see any way for their political involvement to make things better. Incremental progress such as Biden achieved is still possible but it understandably doesn’t impress people who are struggling right now.

  54. 54.

    Elizabelle

    More from Judd Legum on Trump’s nominee to head the Department of Defense:

    https://popular.info/p/13-things-everyone-should-know-about

    Hegseth says women should not be in combat roles
    “I’m straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles,” Hegseth said in a media interview on November 10, 2024. According to Hegseth, “[e]verything about men and women serving together makes the situation more complicated, and complication in combat, means casualties are worse.”

    “Dads push us to take risks. Moms put the training wheels on our bikes,” Hegseth wrote in his 2024 book The War on Warriors. “We need moms. But not in the military, and especially not in combat units.”

    “There aren’t enough lesbians in San Francisco to staff the 82nd Airborne like you need, you need the boys in Kentucky and Texas and North Carolina and Wisconsin,” Hegseth said in a podcast earlier this year.

    Women have formally been allowed to serve in combat roles since 2013 and have been involved in combat operations for decades. Even the conservative Wall Street Journal editorial page suggested Hegseth’s position is misguided because “women have shown they can perform well in many roles” in the military.

  56. 56.

    Belafon

    @bluefoot: But what they’ve told me is they don’t think Democratic political leadership truly understands the stakes for the next generation – how difficult it is to get by unless you’ve been born into wealth, how truly afraid they are about climate change, their awareness of how little time there is to affect change.

    Given that Biden was trying to forgive student debt, raise the overtime cap, that Democrats kept trying to do things like extend the child tax credit, and the infrastructure bills heavily invested on renewables, what also seems to be missing from this analysis is what the other party is always doing.

  57. 57.

    Quinerly

    @zhena gogolia:

    I have been taking spins around social media and checking out the enemy. The fact that Biden’s HHS Secretary is Trans and military really riled up the haters. All this flew under my radar until post election. They are thrilled with RFKJr at HHS and posting a lot of shirtless pictures of him, then showing unflattering and probably doctored photos of Adm Rachel Levine.

  58. 58.

    Belafon

    @Belafon: But there’s also the problem that young men are still being taught that they “deserve” to be treated special and it’s their right to oppress anyone that opposes that.

  59. 59.

    Redshift

    Indivisible (and maybe other groups?) are encouraging community gatherings under the banner of Worth Fighting For. My local Dems had a gathering last night (which was refreshingly free of the hot takes I was afraid I’d have to suffer through), and someone has organized one of those meetings, which I signed right up for.

    The other recent thing I’ve found useful is Chris Hayes’ recent conversation with pro-democracy activist Anna Galland. (Transcript at the link in addition to audio.) One tidbit from that I’ve taken to heart is a slogan from Brazil under Bolsonaro — “No one let go of anyone’s hand.”

  60. 60.

    lowtechcyclist

    @p.a.:

    was his paper pro necrophilia as well?  Same basic argument.

    Never understood its appeal: necrophilia is dead boring.

  61. 61.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Belafon: Given that Biden was trying to forgive student debt, raise the overtime cap, etc…

    This Biden guy sounds great. Why didn’t we run him?

  63. 63.

    Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride

    But squabbling among ourselves is so much more fun!  And there’s always time for it on late-night threads.

    Seriously, I agree with Omnes that we’re unlikely to find that One Big Fix, especially since the people who think they’ve found it always seem to disagree about what it is.  For instance, Martin last night appeared to argue that if only Harris had boldly come out for the “more progressive direction” he’s sure “Democratic voters” were demanding, that would have produced a better result (or if not this time, then sometime down the road, thanks to “generational shift”).  Others seemed to be saying that since racism and/or misogyny determined the result we got, the answer is to avoid ever again nominating anyone of the wrong race or gender, regardless of their views.  Both of those answers can’t be the One Big Fix, and I suspect neither is.

  67. 67.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Redshift: There is a old saying from punk clubs and the mosh pit.  “If someone falls, help them up.”  It’s one of the ways you can tell the difference between the real punks and people there to just to hurt people.

  68. 68.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @bluefoot:

    But what they’ve told me is they don’t think Democratic political leadership truly understands the stakes for the next generation – how difficult it is to get by unless you’ve been born into wealth

    It isn’t easy to become upper middle class, but it isn’t that hard to “get by” in this economy. At times it seems that “get by” means “get everything that I want by the time I’m 30.”

    Maybe this is why people stayed home (however nihilistic staying home was) instead of voting?

    A winning strategy for sure.

  70. 70.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Steve LaBonne:

    People lose interest because they don’t see any way for their political involvement to make things better.

    My sense is that @bluefoot is talking about people who have never been involved in politics. These are people who expect others to do for them while they do nothing, not even vote.

  71. 71.

    pajaro

    Thank you Betty.

    I agree that we should be hesitant to bash our own side, and wait for the evidence of who and why we lost votes we thought we were going to win is in.  It’s already clear that the election looks different than it did two weeks ago, when it looked like a decisive win for Trump with a majority of the popular vote, when, in fact, Trump won in the closest election since 2000, and that he didn’t win a majority of voters.

  72. 72.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Melancholy Jaques: Goddamn it why won’t these people show up for this half a loaf we promised them when they know Republicans are trying to take their bread. Who will be there to negotiate the Republicans down to only taking half the loaf voters already had?

  78. 78.

    brantl

    @Baud: I think, as individuals and as a party, we’re going to have to start doing that all the time we aren’t at work, and we need to set aside money for that to be some peoples’ work!

  83. 83.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @zhena gogolia: Bingo.  Transgender People are the new addition to the right-wing squad of people we all need to fear.  Along with Black People, Immigrants, Muslims and (((Others))).  They’ve toned down the attacks on the LGB and are now hyper-focussed on the T.  Doesn’t help the they are aided/abetted by Centrist/Conserva-Dems and TERFs.

  85. 85.

    Jackie

    I approve!

    “Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo is on an urgent mission: get as much high-tech spending out the door before Donald Trump takes office,” Politico reports.

    “The Biden administration is aiming to commit nearly every unspent dollar in its $50 billion microchip-subsidy program before President-elect Donald Trump takes over in January, an effort that would effectively cement a massive industrial legacy before the GOP can reverse course.”

    President Biden isn’t going quietly into retirement!😍

  86. 86.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @zhena gogolia: Well, I come a fairly privileged background and found struggle in my adult life. What am I supposed to tell people around me who have been struggling and see that as a reason to disengage?

  87. 87.

    RevRick

    @Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride: Harris’ national vote total will soon exceed that of Trump in 2020. Instead of focusing our attention on what we think, and I use that verb loosely, she did wrong, let’s build on what she accomplished. There’s a real possibility that Democrats will flip two GOP seats in California, narrowing the GOP House majority.
    What does seem clear is that Democrats need to invade the spaces where many young men get their “information.” We need YouTube and Reddit and Influencer podcasts to connect with them. And it appears that they shouldn’t talk about politics from the opening gun but rather discuss things like loneliness and depression and navigating relationships with young women.

  89. 89.

    japa21

    Since nothing is perfect (well, Baud, maybe) there will and should be appropriate postmortems of the campaign. However, while everybody is looking and pointing fingers at the Dem side, I have yet to see anywhere an analysis of what the Trump campaign did right.
    This is specially interesting in terms of the fact that he did not have a lot of down ballot coattails. He way over-performed Senatorial Republican candidates, whereas, particularly in swing states, the difference between Harris and the Dem candidate was minimal.
    IMVHO, Trump and his campaign served up a smorgasboard of hate. Kind of a pick and choose format. Something for everybody. But this was centered on Trump, not lower level GOP. As a result, a lot of people voted for Trump and left the rest of the ballot blank.

    BTW, I have read several people say things like “The Constitution is not a suicide pact.” Unfortunately, it is in a way.

  90. 90.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @The Audacity of Krope: I know this is not going to be popular and I will get flamed for saying it, but have any of you screaming at the Democrats considered that they are freaked out too, and they are terrified that everything they have worked for is gone?

     

     

    And that they also are trying to find their footing and figure out how to maneuver and yes, you edgelords, they should have made plan and whatnot but fucking hell anyone who spent one day in the military knows plans survive for about 30 seconds after enemy contact

     

    So they need some time to sort shit and work out options and unlike some dickhead yelling at them on bluesk, they have a couple hundred people to all agree on things.

     

    obviously shit on the dumbfuckery from coons and polis, but fer fuck’s sake just screaming at them to do something isn’t going to help anyone or anything. I’d rather give them a couple weeks to do something smart.

  91. 91.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I feel like one reason we’re picking at one another is that we’re in this period of suspended action. Trump isn’t in office yet. We don’t know exactly what’s coming, what things he’ll follow through on, but we do know it will all be bad. We want to do something, but our options are limited and we just knocked ourselves out to prevent what’s coming.

  92. 92.

    zhena gogolia

    @The Audacity of Krope: I have no idea.

    Here’s what my father always said: “If you are rich, you should definitely vote for Republicans. If you’re not rich, you need to vote for Democrats.” I’ve found that a helpful rule of thumb for many years now.

  93. 93.

    Steve LaBonne

    @Jackie: And meanwhile Senate Democrats are racing to confirm judges. I get a little frustrated with people who think they should be yelling and screaming instead.

  94. 94.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @RevRick: Instead of focusing our attention on what we think, and I use that verb loosely, she did wrong

    To say she did anything wrong would be an exercise in picking nits. The wrong was happening for years beforehand and got shoved in her lap at the last minute.

  96. 96.

    Chris

    @Quinerly:

    DoD nominee, Pete Hegseth published a column in college claiming that having sex with an unconcious woman is not rape because the woman experiences “no duress.”

    Fifteen years ago, a piece of shit named Alex Knepper who’d been writing the “conservative” column for my college newspaper for most of two years, always with the same own-the-libs spirit pushing gradually farther and farther, finally crossed the line when he published a similar article.  The backlash was so strong that it ended with the newspaper firing him (sorry, he assured everyone that he quit voluntarily because they wouldn’t have his back).

    I’ve looked back on my college days a few times since and thought that people like him were a sign of things to come.  He wasn’t the only troll of his kind to pop up towards the end of the 2000s.

  98. 98.

    Hoodie

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’d agree with this if we were talking about elections prior to Trump.   What doesn’t make much sense is why this pattern of 50/50 polarization has continued with Trump.   There’s something very big and very fundamentally wrong when so many people at risk of losing a considerable amount of security deliberately choose such an obvious con man, incompetent and destructive narcissist on two separate occasions (in this case, “choose” might include willingly not participating).  For example, a bunch of pundits are scratching their heads about Harris winning the college-educated vote, but I wonder why she didn’t win a bigger percentage of that vote given that Trump is such an obvious threat to their wealth, their professions, etc.   Are people in the US so unaware of their own economic interests (as apposed to, for example, voters in France) or do they have some sort of psychological condition that has rendered them incapable of simple economic interest driven politics?  Granted, this big problem may be difficult or   impossible to overcome, and working on the margins may be all that is available until something exogenous intervenes to get the country out of this configuration.   Of course, those types of exogenous events usually don’t discriminate in who they damage.

  99. 99.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: Right. And this is why I think lashing out at non-voters is unproductive. These people are my friends and I’m not going to carry animosity toward them about this election.

  100. 100.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jackie:

    Commerce Secretary Raimondo needs to also fully staff the Census Bureau before the vandals take over and freeze hiring.  And probably some other agencies under Commerce, but Census is the one I know.

    We were 100% remotely working for four and a half years, and now that my former colleagues can get into the building again, full-time remote work is suddenly all but verboten, and it’s really screwing up both hiring and retention.

    She needs to reverse this reversal, and allow unrestricted WFH once again.  It worked well enough for 4.5 years that they didn’t even try to find alternate workspaces for us while the building was being re-done, so they shouldn’t have had a problem with it now.

    And they REALLY shouldn’t have a problem with it now, knowing that hiring won’t be possible anymore starting two months from now.

  101. 101.

    Belafon

    @The Audacity of Krope: The CRA, VRA, and ACA, among other things, were more than “half loaf” things that Democrats passed, and they got hammered for trying all of them. The laws that were passed by Democrats over the last four years were there to do more than just hold things steady.

    It often seems to me that Democratic voters too often decide that if A passed it must have been easy and they should have gotten B passed instead.

  102. 102.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Hoodie: do they have some sort of psychological condition that has rendered them incapable of simple economic interest driven politics?

    The strongest political impulse in America, one that far too many of us share whether we vote or not, is “don’t upset the boss man.”

    This is why we basically are at the point of rebuilding the labor movement from scratch 100 years after it’s first successes.

  103. 103.

    kindness

    One of the reasons oligarchs of FDR’s era didn’t do everything in their power to stop FDR’s programs is those programs helped protect those very same oligarchs.  Someone with food in their belly is much less apt to kill the rich as opposed to a starving person.  Social Security, Medicare, later Medicaid and food assistance may have been aimed at the poor and middle class, but they primarily protected the wealthy in their enclaves.  Modern oligarchs seem to have forgotten that lesson.  With the widespread availability of long range rifles, if they push to hard in this country, I suspect it’s a lesson they’ll learn the hard way this time.  Karma.

  104. 104.

    Baud

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    I’m not going to preach to folks about their personal relationships. And lashing out at anyone almost never works, but it feels good so people do it.

    That said, I’m not going to pretend I respect people I don’t.

  105. 105.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Belafon:  CRA, VRA, and ACA

    Those first two things were, what, 50 or 60 years ago? And how much backsliding since then?

    A person benefitting from the third thing often doesn’t know because it leaves us to take care of on our own. And half the people who do know think of it as a burden.

  106. 106.

    RevRick

    @The Audacity of Krope: It turns out that what is in people’s interest is not just material goods, but also intangibles like feeling like winners or banishing what they fear. A lot of Democrats falsely presume that if they can propose programs that offer 50 ways we will lift you up economically that they’ve answered all the important questions on voters minds and in their hearts.

  107. 107.

    Quinerly

    Rebecca Mercer has entered the conversation. She is one of the investors, along with Chris Buskirk, in Jr.’s new gig (1789 Capital). Did a little digging aound out of curiosity. Omeed Malik (Iranian/Pakistani Muslim)  is the main founder of 1789. He pretty much started at Bank of America. Was forced out for inappropriate behavior. Filed a claim in arbitration saying he was forced out due to discrimination. Settled for 8 figures. He has been on a reality show on Showtime. In 2020, he joined Daily Caller. He founded 1789 in 2022. First major investment of the firm was in Tucker Carlson’s media group.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-son-don-jr-joining-venture-capital-firm-1789-capital-sources-say-2024-11-12/

    Granted, a lot of my source material is Wikipedia. Just was quickly trying to connect the threads. Feel free to take up the research.

  109. 109.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @RevRick: What’s in my interest now is doing what I can for those around me and enjoying the spectacle of everyone else burning each other. If the flames catch up with me, so be it.

  111. 111.

    Sure Lurkalot

    It seems on Team Red, a lack of empathy gets out the vote, on Team Blue, it devolves to apathy. So going forward, I’d like to work out that conundrum.

  112. 112.

    storm777

    @RevRick: What does seem clear is that Democrats need to invade the spaces where many young men get their “information.” We need YouTube and Reddit and Influencer podcasts to connect with them. And it appears that they shouldn’t talk about politics from the opening gun but rather discuss things like loneliness and depression and navigating relationships with young women.

    Agreed!

  113. 113.

    Baud

    IMHO, we need to go where the gettable people are, rather than chasing groups that we’d like to partner with. We can’t scold people into being good allies just because we think they should be good allies.

    We’ll get accused of abandoning people, but Dems are a political party, not a support group.

  114. 114.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Omnes Omnibus: they are terrified that everything they have worked for is gone?

    I’m terrified of the same thing. And that working with them to achieve those things was a waste of time. I voted for Obama on a message of furthering cooperation and Republicans spit in his face.

    Too many Democrats have mostly been pushing this approach since, as though they collectively enjoy Republicans spitting in their face.

    Comity for comity’s sake is certainly one of the Party’s worst habits.

  115. 115.

    ArchTeryx

    @Baud: Exactly the attitude I take. I can’t save everyone. But I’m going to be working like hell to save my found family, my Flock. We’ve a pretty open door and there have been some recent  additions; I’ve helped them network with each other, build connections, then just stand back and let whatever happens, happens between people.

    We’re there for one another. That’s how we will get by.

  117. 117.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: We can’t scold people into being good allies just because we think they should be good allies.

    Let’s maybe not scold whole groups of people either; because no matter what they did as a group, individuals among them were solid allies throughout and those are probably among the people feeling hurt and the most unseen.

  119. 119.

    Jackie

    @Steve LaBonne: Yup! While the headlines and focus are about TCFG and his clown car administration nominees, Biden and Schumer are quietly and quickly getting things done while they can.

  121. 121.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Omnes Omnibus: It’s not in what Cole wrote. It has been in years of Democrats’ failure to learn.

    I’m glad if Democrat electeds are afraid. They failed us. They should be.

    ETA: And the comity for comity’s sake remark applies to their relationship with the media too.

  124. 124.

    Baud

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    Agreed. But, hypothetically, if we have 60% of the youth vote, that may be all we can get. If so, trying to push for even more of the youth vote is a waste of time and resources. But often times you hear people argue that we should chase a demographic rather than figure out where the next gettable voter is coming from. You see the same thing with other demos and with  the disputes between progressive and centrists.

  127. 127.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: How do you chase a demographic? Just do the right fucking thing. And if it doesn’t pay off, you’ll still have done the right thing.

    Biden and Harris sure seemed to get this, but we roll as a party.

  129. 129.

    Torrey

    “Crabbuckit” is a great song. Sounds to me very similar musically to Miranda’s “The Room Where It Happened” from Hamilton. Anybody else have that reaction?

    (Not criticizing. I just enjoy noticing similarities between musical pieces. Something about the way my brain hears things, I think. And no, I’m not musical.)

  132. 132.

    Suzanne

    @WereBear:

    But they are the competition. 

    Yeah.

    I shared a few days ago an observation that I had read that really resonated with me. I wish I could remember where I read it. But essentially: we don’t just live in a market economy, we live in a market society. That leads us to think ourselves similar to widgets in a market, in a constant competitive existence. And the way to measure the result of that competition is with money/social status.

    It’s deeply inhumane.

  134. 134.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: If were going to lose a bunch of white mothers in Kickapoo for failing to support mass deportation schemes and that will cost us elections, it’s worth it.

  135. 135.

    kindness

    @The Audacity of Krope: “And this is why I think lashing out at non-voters is unproductive. These people are my friends and I’m not going to carry animosity toward them about this election.”

    You can have friends and not respect them at the same time.  Those things aren’t mutually exclusive.  The thing is, anyone who choses not to participate shouldn’t complain about the results.  You and all of us know those people never stop whining and casting blame on all of us.

  136. 136.

    Paul W.

    Bookmarking this, excellent point and contextualization of what our rivals are doing and where our attention should be in the coming 2-4 years of GOP control.

  138. 138.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride: There’s a reason One Weird Trick claims are still around.  There is always a market for them.  I agree that elections are multiply-determined and never just won/lost on one thing.  Nonetheless I reserve the right to be forever mad at those who say they are part of our coalition but spent their time endlessly bashing our candidates/party and sowing division when we most needed unity.

  139. 139.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: Many policy details are not that straightforward, however.

    When you’re voting in Congress, sure. When your campaigning…?

  141. 141.

    Skippy-san

    Well put. Probably the thing that disgusts me the most about the wretched country is the knowledge that so many Americans don’t care about all the people who will suffer.

  142. 142.

    Geminid

    Virgia Democrats are fortunate in that we have state-wide elections coming up, so “no time to wallow in the mire.” The state Senate doesn’t come up until 2027, but there will be 100 House of Delegates seats at stake. Redistricting gave us a fairly neutral map and a there will be a lot of contested seats. Right now the House is 51D, 49R  I believe.

    Our one-term limit for Governors will prevent Foungkin’ Youngkin from defending his seat and his flimsy record. In a way that’s a shame, because I’d love to see Abigail Spanberger thrash that slick-talking creep. Instead, it will be up to his Attorney General or Lieutenant Governor to defend the Governor’s mansion. I could see them playing rock-paper-scissors to decide who runs when, with the winner running in 2029 and the loser running against Spanberger this year.

    So far current or former Democratic office-holder wants to run against Rep. Spanberger, so there likely will be no suspense in our primary for Governor.

    I’ll be rooting for State Senator Aaron Rouse in the primary for Lt. Governor. The former Green Bay Packer safety has a bright political future ahead, I think.

    As for Attorney General, I’ll probably vote for a Northern Virginian. That’s a retro thing. We used to balance our tickets with a Richmonder, Northern Virginian and a Tidewater politician. I don’t think it makes much of a difference in this era, but I’m a traditionalist that way.

  143. 143.

    WereBear

    @Hoodie: You are really overworking “deliberately” in that statement.

    These are people who do everything obliviously. Trust me. I went to Jr High with them. Haven’t changed a bit.

  144. 144.

    Torrey

    @catclub:

      @Elizabelle: Eyes on the prize, in this case not becoming Hungary.

    Mmmm, Beef stroganoff, mushroom stroganoff, Dobosch Torte, what were you saying?

    Hey, stop that! Stroganoff is Russian. You’re thinking of Goulash, Paprikash, potato noodles, strudel.
    Mmmmmmm, indeed.

  145. 145.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride: FWIW I don’t think that anyone who was talking about misogyny and racism was saying the we should only run white men in the future.  Martin was saying that it was the logical conclusion of that view, but I, for one, vehemently disagree.

  146. 146.

    Baud

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    Campaigning too. Dems aren’t going on being anti-environment or anti-health care, but they have to decide how much progress they’re going to propose given the need to assemble a coalition.

  148. 148.

    Layer8Problem

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    . . . years of Democrats’ failure to learn.

    I’m glad if Democrat electeds are afraid. They failed us. They should be.

    Gosh, maybe we better cast about for another organization to work with to make things better.  Anything convenient lying around?  Should we make a new one in the garage? Or just go full Occupy and hope the organization part just happens?

    A small fraction of that is serious.  I’d like quick fixes.  Now please.

  151. 151.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: Dems aren’t going on being anti-environment or anti-health care, but they have to decide how much progress they’re going to propose given the need to assemble a coalition.

    You’re right. Problem here, though, they don’t weight those considerations very well, typically favoring institutional power.

    Take the student protests earlier this year. Democrats, by and large, sent the message that it was OK for universities to sic cops on students and conduct media campaigns that drew in dangerous outsiders from hither and yon. And aren’t the Republicans really right that the protestors are the real bigots?

    So you pissed off a big chunk of students, their parents, anyone who supported the students’ cause, anyone who cares about the abuse of the police system, and anyone with a pair of contiguous functioning neurons.

    All because the Universities wanted peace (for University administration, mainly).

  154. 154.

    oldgold

    @kindness: “Someone with food in their belly is much less apt to kill the rich as opposed to a starving person. ”

    A lesson Marie Antoinette taught us.

    And, my quick take, the price of groceries was a huge player in this debacle.

  155. 155.

    Baud

    @The Audacity of Krope:

    Actually figuring out how to assemble a winning coalition isn’t easy work. And everyone has a different opinion about what needs to be done. But my point is that is the work that needs to be done, rather than trying to win over people who don’t seem interested in being won over (whether on the right or left, young or old, etc.)

  156. 156.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Baud: Actually figuring out how to assemble a winning coalition isn’t easy work.

    It isn’t. That’s why I’d prefer we just played it straight on values and not try to game the electorate.

  157. 157.

    Ramona

    @Suzanne: I read a long time ago that one tends to envy someone who is perceived as similar to one. I’ve experienced this myself when I’m attacked by a twinge of envy. The billionaires are perceived as distant gods as beyond control as the weather. It makes sense to me that evolution of the emotion of envy would direct it towards those in our social group more similar to us because such individuals would be more likely to compete with us.

  158. 158.

    RevRick

    Perhaps Democrats don’t have a political problem so much as they have a cultural problem.

    Why have we lost so much of the working class?
    Well, what things do many in the working class want?*
    1). A well-ordered home;

    2). A well-ordered family;

    3). A well-ordered community.

    *with apologies to Tex Sample who talked about this 40 years ago.

    With respect to the first that has to do with how does one’s living space present to the community? It is as basic as painting the window frames and mowing the lawn, but it also includes having a steady job to pay for necessities. (Inflation really bit hard here).

    With respect to the second it includes such things as “do the kids behave in public?” and is everyone practicing sobriety— it’s okay to drink beers watching the Steelers, but becoming an alcoholic is a definite no-no. It means have the husband and wife negotiated their roles and responsibilities to the care of home and children?
    With respect to the third it includes things like volunteering in the fire company and not letting criminals run rampant.

    It only takes a moment’s reflection to see how many of the social norms which undergird this edifice have been subject to tremendous pressure and change. Rush Limbaugh got a lot of traction with his feminazi smear, because feminism was throwing all these things in an uproar. It made working class folk, both men and women, extremely anxious and anxious people react badly.
    The closing of mental hospitals meant all those former patients were dumped into communities and many became homeless. Disordered communities!
    Soaring crime? Disordered communities! Rising levels of drug addiction? Disordered families and communities!
    Where our instincts might be to reach out compassionately in dealing with these problems, offering long term solutions, working class folks are likely to panic. Cops on the street! Now.
    The GOP has successfully pinned responsibility for these challenges on Democrats and given simple and decisive steps to meet them.
    Frankly, we have not convincingly sold our solutions as ways that will help build well-ordered homes, families, communities. More importantly, we have failed to fully nail the albatross of rampant vulture capitalism as the cause of many of these problems to the GOP. Deaths of despair have their origins on Wall Street and in corporate boardrooms.

    Thus ends my hurling more opinions on the fire.

  159. 159.

    LAC

    @Layer8Problem: You know the “Occupy the Parks and displace homeless people while drinking lattes” movement could work this time, right? :)

    I too want quick answers since we are speeding through the grieving process.

  162. 162.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @RevRick: The GOP has successfully pinned responsibility for these challenges on Democrats and given simple and decisive steps to meet them.

    The solutions they offer are simple and decisive, yes. They’re also cruel and have no realistic mechanism for accomplishing their stated goals; just cruelty, the unstated goal.

    I honestly think the biggest challenge on the side of the angels is dealing with the information space. There’s too much shit out there and too many people sorting it out on their own.

    Cleaning that up will be impossible, so I think the best thing we can do is to communicate to people of all ages how to be more discerning about their information. This project wouldn’t even be expressly political. It has applications in all facets of life.

  163. 163.

    WereBear

    @Suzanne: It’s deeply inhumane.

     

    Keeping us paranoid and in constant competition is sure to lead to sales of more deodorant.

    is how it started. And I understand young people scorned obvious commercials but fell for curated (and in some cases paid) Influencers, and we had that.

    I’m not saying all these choices in the modern world is a bad thing.

    I’m saying it does short out the brains of people who have been shielded from the modern world and never taught to grow up. Don’t know where to start and then don’t.

  164. 164.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Quinerly: I’ve traveled plenty. Just not in the Central or Mountain times zones. Also, I still have you flagged for history of libel. I haven’t forgotten.

  168. 168.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Ramona: Tried it. The best response to that I heard is that they can just do their best for the people in their lives.

    I have to admit, seeing me personally crushed with depression periodically every time Republicans win an election or Dems make a dumb decision might undermine my efforts when I’m feeling good.

  169. 169.

    Ramona

    @Hoodie: what is more head scratching is that she did better than Biden with white college educated people but not as well as Biden with Black college educated people.

  170. 170.

    AM in NC

    @Jackie: They did this before Gov. Cooper came in, when GOP lame-Duck Gov. Pat McCrory signed everything the GQP General Assembly wanted – mostly stripping every power out of the Governor’s Office that wasn’t nailed down.

    Alison Riggs winning the NC Supreme Court seat by a handful of votes is HUGE for potentially un-doing this awful gerrymandered mess in 2028.

    Win. Hold. Consolidate gains. Win. Hold. Consolidate gains. Repeat.

  171. 171.

    Ramona

    @Baud: I just finished watching Hopium Chronicles with Simon Rosenberg interviewing some polling guy who said that whenever Dems have won 60% of the youth vote, we win. We are guaranteed with at least IIRC 54% and our campaign has to grow it to 60% to win.

  173. 173.

    Juju

    @Quinerly: Someone in the media or if he ever gets to confirmation should read that to him and ask him if his opinion in that regard has changed at all. I know I’d like to know. It’s clear to me with a choice like that for DoD head and all of his opinions about women in general and especially women in the military, is that these are the first steps to the diminishment of women.  This scares me.

  178. 178.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Betty: I guess those Ivy League schools really don’t produce the best people.

    A good, traditional Ivy League education appears to prize one lesson above all others, that YOU are a cut above the rest.

    This notion is at the core of all the world’s manmade evils.

  179. 179.

    AM in NC

    @The Audacity of Krope:  I don’t approve of lashing out. But I do approve of gentle reminders EVERY TIME something happens that affects them (for good or evil) “we could have more of this if you voted and voted for Democrats”.  Or, “yeah, this is objectively horrible, and we have to make sure these people can’t do this to us again – please vote and vote for Democrats.

    I feel like meatspace is where we must make the push, because media and social media are so controlled by the billionaires and Christian Nationalists.

    Gentle, constant reminders that THEY do have a voice and CAN try to make their lives, and all our lives, better (or worse).

  180. 180.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @AM in NC: I will say the true Republican ground game is constant, effective, and free. Every God-fearing, True-blooded Patriot in the right-wing echo chamber makes a point to always be insinuating their talking points in public. They even use retail employees as a captive audience.

    As a worker who has to deal with this, I am offended. I work hard not to inflict this on others, but results are results.

  181. 181.

    TB Hill

    @ArchTeryx: “Stalin was the ultimate ally of convenience….He was happy to work with Hitler to parcel out Eastern Europe, but Hitler broke his pact with him and invaded, anyway. He saw Hitler as an existential threat to the fledgling USSR, so joined the Allies. ”

    Well, the fact is the western powers (Britain and France at the time; the USA didn’t really care one way or the other) were also happy to cooperate with the nazis to take over eastern Europe. As long as German forces were pointed eastwards, the British and French were good with it. See Munich, for the biggest example. Munich led almost directly to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact that divided Poland. Prior to the the USSR had been attempting to create an anti-nazi alliance with the west, to no avail.

    The flaw in the British and French plan was the fact that they knew perfectly well they were unlikely to win a war without some kind of eastern front, and they’d created a system of alliances with the weak states of central and eastern Europe, *not* including the USSR. So the invasion of Poland was the last step they were willing to put up with, and finally declared war on Sep 3 1939 in a much weaker strategic position than they had been in two years earlier.

     

    @ArchTeryx:

  182. 182.

    prostratedragon

    @Quinerly:
    Adm. Levine is Assistant Secretary of health under Xavier Bercerra, who is HHS Secretary. The admiral rank and title go with the job, as Surgeon General Murthy is Vice Adm. under her. Neither is career military.

  185. 185.

    tam1MI

    @bluefoot:From the young people I know, this is a big part of it.  All of them (20-somethings) voted for Harris, but weren’t enthusiastic.  Many are politically engaged and understood the stakes.  But what they’ve told me is they don’t think Democratic political leadership truly understands the stakes for the next generation – how difficult it is to get by unless you’ve been born into wealth, how truly afraid they are about climate change, their awareness of how little time there is to affect change. They feel that the system needs radical change, but there aren’t mechanisms with which to do that.  Especially since one party – up until they have regained power – just obstructs or worse.  Maybe this is why people stayed home (however nihilistic staying home was) instead of voting?

    I think it is more likely that the people who stayed home were the ones who believed that they were well off/privileged enough to ride out the next four years or longer, along with having a grievance against the Democratic Party.

  186. 186.

    The Truffle

    Question: what do you think of taking a vacation in a red state? I’d scheduled a vacation-cum-business trip in Texas months in advance, and I’m going to be in one of the state’s blue dots. I still feel uncomfortable visiting, and I think it is too late to back out. But I frankly don’t feel good about setting foot in Texas. In fact, it feels like visiting Sun City during the apartheid years. Thoughts?

  187. 187.

    tam1MI

    @japa21:Since nothing is perfect (well, Baud, maybe) there will and should be appropriate postmortems of the campaign. However, while everybody is looking and pointing fingers at the Dem side, I have yet to see anywhere an analysis of what the Trump campaign did right.

    The news analyses I have read all seem to agree that Trump won by hyperfocusing his campaign on men and advertising in male-heavy spaces.

  188. 188.

    artem1s

    where no one gets ahead because the outgroups perceive politics as a zero-sum game and pull down anyone else who appears to make progress.

    this is why I’m always suspicious of curiously well organized and funded groups that seemingly spring out of no where banging a one note drum on a hot take issue and are targeting a candidate who has no reason to be opposed to the issue but has no control over fixing the conspiracy bullshit the protestors are whinging about. Like the Teaparty protests to ‘keep government out of my Medicare’. We’ve got too much astroturf (Koch) money looking for ways to divide us into competing for attention from candidates and legislators.
    It’s hard to educate voters on why (for instance) supporting women’s access to reproductive care helps whole families and communities economies, not just the women who are bleeding out in hospital parking lots. Too many voters couldn’t make the connection between inflation, supply chains broken by COVID, dock worker union strikes, the FDA protecting food supply, and price gouging by big box stores, pharma and agra businesses.

  189. 189.

    tam1MI

    @206inKY:

    Much of the anti-recrimination discourse is rightly calling out bullshit, but some of the most uncomfortable things are not prescriptions for the future (where most of the bullshit agendas emerge) but first drafts of history.

    Garrett Graff, who has impeccable credentials if you know his work, sums it up all-too-accurately:

    https://www.doomsdayscenario.co/p/history-will-not-be-kind-to-joe-biden

    One of the reasons Dems constantly lose is because we always let assholes like this redefine our victories as abject defeats.

    This is one of the reasons I am convinced the elected Dems will move sharply to the Right.  Because if the most progressive President of our lifetime is a miserable failure, then the obvious One Weird Trick to save the party will be to reject Progressivism root and branch.

    And, for the record, I don’t think that Biden will be remembered as the 21st century’s answer to Millard Fillmore.  I think he will be remembered as the 21st century’s answer to Harry Truman.

  190. 190.

    The Truffle

    @tam1MI: With progressive governors like Whitmer and Walz, i couldn’t see the Dems going rightward. But something didn’t work this time.

    Over at Kos they are bringing up the popular governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky. This state is very red but the people there love him. What is he doing right? What did Josh Stein, for one, do right?

    iMO, “identity politics” should be treated like the right wing diversion tactic it is.

  191. 191.

    tam1MI

    @The Truffle:Over at Kos they are bringing up the popular governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky. This state is very red but the people there love him. What is he doing right?

    He is the son of an extremely popular former Governor who is still fondly remembered in that state.

    Nepo Baby politics.  It works.

  192. 192.

    Citizen Alan

    @The Truffle: Over at Kos they are bringing up the popular governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky. This state is very red but the people there love him. What is he doing right?

    Well for one thing, early on, Andy Beshear made the important tactical choice to be born the son of Steve Beshear, who had been a fixture in KY politics for decades.

    Edit: What tam1MI said

  194. 194.

    Sally

    @zhena gogolia: I disagree with your father. The rich also live better under Democrats. Lower crime rates, better economy, healthier, happier people, better workforce, better trade relations. We all live better in a a stable and predictable society. Especially the rich.

  196. 196.

    Manyakitty

    @The Truffle: probably dead thread, but my parents live in Florida. They can’t travel so if I want to see them, there’s one one option.

    You know what, though? Democrats live in red areas, too. Do a little research, find some decent businesses to support, and have a great time.

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