Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

In after Baud. Damn.

I really should read my own blog.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

This is dead girl, live boy, a goat, two wetsuits and a dildo territory.  oh, and pink furry handcuffs.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / Saturday Evening Open for Debate Thread

Saturday Evening Open for Debate Thread

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I genuinely think Biden should issue a shitload if pardons to his administration on the way out the door and maybe resign with ten minutes left to go so President Harris can pardon him too.

[image or embed]

— The Fig Economy (@figgityfigs.bsky.social) November 22, 2024 at 7:12 PM

I know, I know, we’re the Grownup Party and it will never happen (apart from Joe Biden being very much an old-school institutionalist). But a girl can dream…

Reader Interactions

61Comments

  2. 2.

    RepubAnon

    On the other hand, watching Merrick Garland being arrested on purely political charges does have a bit of FAFO to it – and it would perhaps cure the institutionalists of their blind adherence to long dead “norms.”

  3. 3.

    Baud

    The silver lining to vindictive prosecutions is you’ll learn from the cherring which of your follows are monsters.

  4. 4.

    TBone

    Random comment from elsewhere:

    The next four years:

    Dumb Dipshit Farts Some Stupid Nonsense Out Of His Stupid Pie Hole
    Here’s How His Inane Rantings Could Profoundly Affect Your Life

    Now think about the pardons gambit in that light.

    Or this one: Fourth guy into the Capitol Building on J6 was convicted of plotting to kill 37 FBI agents while he was awaiting trial for his J6 crimes.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jan-6-rioter-convicted-plotting-murder-fbi-agents-rcna181005

  6. 6.

    bbleh

    Oooh, ooh, or he could declassify a WHOLE LOT of intel and FBI files on the Orange Guy and all his staff and nominees with the Power Of His Mind, and then take them down to Rehoboth and spend days looking through them while various well-wishers and media visit to pay their respects.

  7. 7.

    KatKapCC

    @Timill: I get the glee of it, but I would not want this to happen, because then our “first female president’ would not have been elected and would only have this tiny little “term” in the annals of history. And then one day in approximately 172 years when we actually elect a woman, she won’t technically get to be called “the first female president”. To me, this idea — and I know it’s just a daydream — would not be something positive either for Harris or for whomever that first elected woman would be.

  8. 8.

    Nukular Biskits

    Biden COULD do a lot to hamstring the incoming Trump administration … and it would the patriotic AND right thing to do, IMHO.

    But, as noted by Anne, Uncle Joe, bless his heart, is indeed an old-school institutionalist.

  13. 13.

    Eunicecycle

    I think Joe should pardon himself. Although if whatever Trump thinks he has on Biden happened when he was president, he can’t have committed any crime, right

    Oh and he should definitely pardon Hunter, for all crimes real and imagined.

  14. 14.

    RevRick

    Our daughter and son-in-law are celebrating their anniversary with a night in Philadelphia. Dinner at Mori Moto’s and then a comedy club with Michelle Wolf. So we get the granddaughter!
    Naturally, we put her to work decorating our new Christmas tree from Balsam Hill. This is, by far, the earliest we put up our tree, but again, ready child labor.

  15. 15.

    Ramona

    I think all of us and the Democrats should say repeatedly: President Trump should take full advantage of the opportunity to prove himself innocent and allow and dare Jack Smith to try him during his term for both the documents case and the insurrection case. Trump is a MANLY MAN and he can easily handle both the duties of the presidency and assisting his lawyers in his trials.

    This is so fucking obviously true, that is that POTUS has the discretion to let a case against them go forward that we should be saying it!

    The GOP are always making outrageous crazy-making claims, why should we lean over backwards to be rational and say, of course any accused person would rather not have to prove their innocence in court. Well, as the NYT noodle said, Trump is no ordinary man! He should lead the American people in having faith in HIS DOJ by letting the trials go forward.

  16. 16.

    Miki

    There is no downside to Biden pardoning Hunter. The prosecution after a purely regular plea offer is/was completely wrong. A pardon is about love, in this case. I hated that Biden chose to run again. I will completely love him until the end of time when he pardons his son.

  19. 19.

    eclare

    I absolutely think that Joe should pardon Hunter.  After everything the loathsome Republicans have put that family through, a pardon is deserved.

    Will Joe do it?  I doubt it.  But I would love it if NFLTG Joe did.

  20. 20.

    Raoul Paste

    Trump‘s next AG pick (Bondi) has publicly stated that she will “prosecute the prosecutors”.  If nothing else, Biden should pardon, Jack Smith, the goddamn American hero.  Then declassify and release Smith’s file on Trump.  Then give Jack Smith the presidential medal of freedom.

    Hey, if Biden is going to “stir things up” on his way out (as Simone Biles suggested), go big

  21. 21.

    Gretchen

    @RevRick: I saw Michelle Wolf in a comedy club a few years ago. She put on a great show. She will probably reprise some of her Correspondents Dinner about how the press loves Trump. Unfortunately still topical.

  22. 22.

    kindness

    Biden should pardon Hunter Biden.  Don’t give Trump the satisfaction of tossing Hunter in jail.

  23. 23.

    Another Scott

    @Miki:

    There is no downside to Biden pardoning Hunter.

    Except that Biden said he was not going to do it.

    I’m remembering Billy Carter:

    Relationship with Libya

    In late 1978 and early 1979, Billy Carter visited Libya three times with a contingent from Georgia. He eventually registered as a foreign agent of the Libyan government and received a $220,000 loan of which, The New York Times speculated,[19] only $1,000 was repaid.[20] However, Edwin P. Wilson claimed he had seen a telegram showing that Libya paid Billy Carter $2 million.[21] This led to a Senate hearing on alleged influence peddling which the press named Billygate.[22] A Senate sub-committee was called To Investigate Activities of Individuals Representing Interests of Foreign Governments (Billy Carter—Libya Investigation).[23]

    “I am deeply concerned that Billy has received funds from Libya and that he may be under obligation to Libya. These facts will govern my relationship with Billy as long as I am president. Billy has had no influence on U.S. policy or actions concerning Libya in the past, and he will have no influence in the future.”

    — Jimmy Carter, August 4, 1980[24]

    A 1985 Wall Street Journal article suggested that a series of Billygate articles written by Michael Ledeen and published in The New Republic in October 1980 were intended to influence the outcome of that year’s presidential election. According to the reporting, Francesco Pazienza, an officer of the Italian intelligence agency SISMI, alleged that Ledeen was handed Billygate information by the Italian Intelligence agency and he co-authored the articles with Arnaud de Borchgrave.[25] Pazienza was later tried and convicted in absentia for using “extortion and fraud to obtain embarrassing facts about Billy Carter”.[26]

    I haven’t tried to find the senate report, if any.

    One can bet that if Carter had won re-election, there would have been continued grand claims and investigations into Billy (for good and ill) and attempts to taint Jimmy with it. I don’t think that Jimmy would have tried to pardon him if there was some trumped-up prosecution.

    But we’ll never know.

    It looks like Hunter’s sentencing on the gun charges is December 12 and on the tax charges is December 16. We’ve got a few weeks to wait.

    FWIW.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  24. 24.

    Hilbertsubspace

    If the guardrails of lawful democracy hold, then pardons are unnecessary.  If they don’t, then pardons are insufficient.  Useless either way, unless you’re a criminal  like Trump, Gaetz, Greene, etc…  Which is why Trump wanted to pardon himself back in late 2020, early 2021.

  26. 26.

    Bill Arnold

    @Timill:

    I would prefer Kamala being Prez for a week or so.

    Even a few minutes means that Trump merchandise vendors would have to discard all their “47” merchandise. (or try to edit it.)
    ETA: also “Agenda 47” would be obsolete.

  28. 28.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Hilbertsubspace:

    If the guardrails of lawful democracy hold, then pardons are unnecessary. If they don’t, then pardons are insufficient.

    Excluded middle.

    There’s plenty of room between the guardrails holding to the extent that pardons are unnecessary, and failing to the extent that pardons are no protection.

  31. 31.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    Another vote for (at least) pardoning Hunter. Plus everyone at DOJ.

  33. 33.

    p.a.

    Oh Joe should not do any of this.  Who knows how bad the NAZIs will get if we troll the NAZIs?  Who knows how much worse the NAZIs will break the norms then?!?!  Let’s defend the norms so the NAZIs will respect them too…

  38. 38.

    Johnnybuck

    Took a break for 16 days around here, but obviously I’m a little too salty for the bullshit.

  47. 47.

    Starfish (she/her)

    @p.a.: Biden should do much more creative things than this like leave all the important papers in the bathroom for Trump’s reading pleasure,.

    At the meeting where the old President hands over things to the new President, he should have his dog Commander there because Trump is a miserable jerk who had no White House pets. And bonus points if Commander bites J. D. Vance.

    Biden should put a lock on the ice cream freezer.

    I am still not sure what they should do with the continuing budget resolution. Do they continue it again or let it expire?

    They did away with Trump’s color scheme for Air Force One. Is there anything else they can do with the plane that will just annoy Trump? In hindsight, maybe they shouldn’t be letting Boeing build planes.

  48. 48.

    satby

    @zhena gogolia: @NotMax: it’s purely silly fanfic at this point, with a heaping helping of we’re afraid of the future authoritarian, so we wish the law-abiding president would become one. And Kamala Harris is not anyone’s emotional support Barbie, wishing Joe would quit so she could be a “consolation prize president” is insulting.

  51. 51.

    RevRick

    @Starfish (she/her): But of course. I did the heavy lifting of assembling the tree. But it was kind of a Tom Sawyer’s fence situation. I get to decorate your tree! Who am I to throw cold water on her delight?

    @eclare: She’s twelve and already showing signs of becoming a teenage girl. I think she’s sussed out who Santa is.

  52. 52.

    sentient ai from the future

    can he preemptively un-pardon stewart rhodes?

    because i’m concerned that the pinche chupamierdando naranjo is going to do that, at which point all bets are off for 2028, or even holding elections in 2026 if it’s done early.

    if he lets that piece of shit twist in the wind i think there’s still a thin reed to hang the survival of american democracy on.

  53. 53.

    Martin

    @Hilbertsubspace: If the guardrails of lawful democracy hold, then pardons are unnecessary.  If they don’t, then pardons are insufficient.

    We’re getting it.

    I think people need to recognize that we probably can’t save our leaders without resorting to extraordinary measures. Trump’s people are calling this a ‘hostile takeover of the federal government’. We can either take them at their word or not. If we do, nothing we think of as in-bounds will be sufficient.

    There’s a lot the administrative state can do to fuck up their plans. I’m experienced at that. There’s ways through that as well – steering cases through favorable judges, appointing the right USAs and special councils, throwing the rules out and firing the civil service employees until the resistance is broken.

    As you note, if the rules hold, everyone will be fine, and if they don’t we can’t save them without also breaking the rules. That’s the choice.

  54. 54.

    gene108

    Biden should pardon all the people Trump will likely come after, including himself and Hunter.

    Good behavior is no longer politically rewarded. Bad behavior is no longer punished.

    Whatever shared ideals Americans might have once had about this country have been shot to hell after decades of right-wing lies, abuses of institutions, propaganda, and disinformation which have increased exponentially in the last 10 years.

    For example, in 2006, Republicans covering for Mark Foley fueled some backlash that hurt Republicans nationally. In 2024, Republicans are covering for Matt Gaetz, and other than some people being glad he’s gone – at least temporarily – there’s not as much backlash against Republicans, as there was in 2006 with Foley.

    Sticking to an unwritten set of rules no one else follows is just dumb.

  57. 57.

    Barry

    @Eunicecycle: ”

    I think Joe should pardon himself. Although if whatever Trump thinks he has on Biden happened when he was president, he can’t have committed any crime, right

    Oh and he should definitely pardon Hunter, for all crimes real and imagined.”

     

    ‘Look for evidence of treason. If you don’t find any…look harder’.

  58. 58.

    zhena gogolia

    You can’t pardon someone before they’re accused of a crime, as noted above.

    But of course we have to have something more to blame Biden for in advance. Fuck everyone.

  59. 59.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @gene108:

    Sticking to an unwritten set of rules no one else follows is just dumb.

    Yep, it’s the bubble of the beltway crowd, and wishful thinkers. I used to be one.

  61. 61.

    way2blue

    For me, the Democrats have two Achilles Heels.  Elected ones in particular.   (1)  They want to be considered ‘Nice Guys’, so pull their punches.   When Republicans say:  ‘That’s mean!’ to a Democrat being blunt, they too often back down.  (2)  Democrats often assume their policies are so self evidently superior that they don’t explain them in lay terms, don’t promote them.  Rather assume any thinking adult would figure this on their own.  Nope.  Sort of like the adage:  If a tree falls in the  forest and no one hears it—does it make a sound?

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