Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Fight them, without becoming them!

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Petty moves from a petty man.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Morning Open Thread: The Annual ‘Homecoming’ Migration Begins

Monday Morning Open Thread: The Annual ‘Homecoming’ Migration Begins

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Public service announcement:

If you’re not sure about the political temperature at your Thursday gathering, maybe print out cards?

Thank you, Joe Biden.

[image or embed]

— Clean Observer (@hammbear2024.bsky.social) November 22, 2024 at 5:41 PM


 
Or if that doesn’t work…

Reader Interactions

134Comments

  1. 1.

    Leto

    I feel like Leslie Jones took an extended “John Cole Family Holiday Hootinanny” course, and expanded on it. A+

  3. 3.

    narya

    Weeks of sitting around, not doing much, and suddenly I have consulting work, and MORE consulting work, plus making stuff for Thursday: cheese puffs, a.k.a. gougeres; sweet potato roses; possibly roast the Brussels sprouts while I have the oven on; Paul Hollywood’s 7-strand bread wreath (though I’ll probably use sourdough); some rolls in case the bread doesn’t come out right; and a Dessert to be Named Later, probably involving apples and creme brûlée. NOT complaining! (Seriously; all of this is good.) And venison tenderloin, maybe as soon as this weekend

    ETA: what Kristine said about the salmon: this makes me so happy.

  4. 4.

    SiubhanDuinne

    YAY for spawning salmon!!

    Also, that Leslie Jones is one funny-ass woman. Not familiar with her, but if she’s always this good I’ll have to seek out more of her stuff.

  6. 6.

    sab

    OT: I have commented on this before:

    In Cuyahoga Valley we had a junk yard near the river. Park people came in and cleared a couple of thousand cars. Park people thought, dirty as it was, good site for a parking lot.

    Beavers thought: finally river cleared up. Let’s build a dam and get on with beaver life.

    Parks thought: Beaver dam messing with our parking project. Let’s tear it out.

    Beavers thought: Humans tore out our dam again. Time to rebuild!

    Park tore it out. Baeavers rebuilt..

    Many iterations later beavers won. Beaver marsh is biggest tourist draw in the park.

  7. 7.

    Soprano2

    I have to make cookies for our dinner at work on Wednesday and a German chocolate cake for our family gathering on Thursday. I’ve come to dread this time of year, it makes me miss my family something terrible and I feel like I can’t wait for it to be over. Hubby & I don’t do gift exchanges because I don’t want him to think he has to shop for me. I try not to think about how things used to be, but it’s hard and it makes me so sad. This time of year makes me understand why people want to go back in time. I try to focus on what I have now and what I can be grateful for now, but the holiday season makes that hard

    Watched the Leslie Jones video, that was hilarious! If only I had the nerve to do that.

  8. 8.

    JMG

    We’re having a Zoom Thanksgiving as our two children will be here for Christmas, but not this week. We’ll have the meal, but with a smaller turkey and one fewer side (no mashed turnip this year). No political arguments or arguments of any kind on the day where gratitude for the universe, messed up as it often is, is the rule.

  9. 9.

    narya

    @Gin & Tonic: I think we’re gathering at 4:30? Downstairs Neighbor supplies the turkey (an heirloom breed), cranberry compote, gravy, and lots of wine; other guests are bringing asparagus, cornbread stuffing, and pie (pecan or pumpkin, I think). I really want to make two desserts–a pumpkin cheesecake tart (pepita crust and pepita brittle) and a creme brûlée with sautéed apples buried underneath it–but four desserts is overkill for 5-6 people. So, if you show up, that evens things out and I can make that fourth dessert after all.

  10. 10.

    Suzanne

    We are not doing turkey this year. One of the Spawns is vegetarian, one of the Spawns doesn’t much like it. I also don’t really like it. (And before everyone goes all in about how their method of cooking the turkey is fantastic…. I promise you, we cook it well, and I still find it deeply meh.) So we are doing steaks, and pasta shells. And apple pie in addition to pumpkin.

  15. 15.

    Tony G

    Mass deportation of agricultural workers, plus tariffs as high as 60% on imported items (including components of items that are “Made in USA”).  Gee, I wonder what the effect of that will be?  (Half of the people who bothered to vote three weeks ago are asking the rhetorical question “elementary economics — how does it work?”  They’re about to find out.)

  18. 18.

    different-church-lady

    I am practicing saying, “You voted for a fascist sex abuser and we’re not having an argument about it.”

  19. 19.

    satby

    Good morning Anne Laurie and everyone! My family will be gathering in two weeks, including my late sister’s kids; so I’m looking forward to a peaceful holiday at home. Probably making something simple which will not be turkey. And (re)reading either a Travis McGee or Inspector Alleyn mystery before watching whatever old classic movie I find on. And that will be delightfully relaxing.

    Because Saturday the retail hellscape starts in earnest, and I’ll still be helping my friend.

  22. 22.

    frosty

    @Suzanne: ​ And apple pie in addition to pumpkin.

    Good move. For me, pumpkin pie is meh. But if there’s a chocolate pecan pie (or even a plain pecan pie), I’ll be having that AND the apple!

  24. 24.

    Spanky

    @sab:

    Many iterations later beavers won. Beaver marsh is biggest tourist draw in the park.

    Sigh. I’m sorry your parks people are idiots, and more so the entire local government, some of whom should know by now how beneficial beavers are.

    It might be useful to get some of them to attend the next BEAVERCON in 2026. They might learn that encouraging and emulating beavers is now A Thing.

  25. 25.

    frosty

    I saw the Leslie Jones clip a little while ago and sent it to my brother, who hosts his in-laws along with me and my sister. Fortunately, AFAIK there are no MAGAs among any of the invitees.

  26. 26.

    narya

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I wanted to tell you–I have a subscription to 10% Happier (now just Happier), and I can give a free month to someone. I mention this because I find their sleep meditations to be helpful. If you want to try that, let me know.

  27. 27.

    satby

    @Baud: “Traitor” or “treasonous” is my response of choice when MAGAts burble on about their dear leader. Because even the most ill-informed know that anyone else would be in prison for that AND that normally they’d support throwing anyone else in jail for the same behavior. So they’ll try to defend the convict weakly, or most often just shut up entirely. Shutting them up is my goal.

  28. 28.

    frosty

    @Spanky: I think the beaver pond is in Cuyahoga National Park. I was there last summer but missed the marsh, unfortunately. So it may have been the National Park staff that battled the beavers and not the local Parks and Rec. Either way, they lost!

    Beavers are good for stormwater management and downstream water quality and stream restoration, too. They built a pond in the middle of urban Arlington, Virginia!

  29. 29.

    Kay

    Another woman dead due to the ban on best practices medical care for pregnant women in Texas:

    It was clear Porsha needed an emergency D&C, the medical experts said. She was hemorrhaging and the doctors knew she had a blood-clotting disorder, which put her at greater danger of excessive and prolonged bleeding. “Misoprostol at 11 weeks is not going to work fast enough,” said Dr. Amber Truehart, an OB-GYN at the University of New Mexico Center for Reproductive Health. “The patient will continue to bleed and have a higher risk of going into hemorrhagic shock.” The medical examiner found the cause of death to be hemorrhage.
    D&Cs — a staple of maternal health care — can be lifesaving. Doctors insert a straw-like tube into the uterus and gently suction out any remaining pregnancy tissue. Once the uterus is emptied, it can close, usually stopping the bleeding.
    But because D&Cs are also used to end pregnancies, the procedure has become tangled up in state legislation that restricts abortions. In Texas, any doctor who violates the strict law risks up to 99 years in prison. Porsha’s is the fifth case ProPublica has reported in which women died after they did not receive a D&C or its second-trimester equivalent, a dilation and evacuation; three of those deaths were in Texas.

    Propublica and NPR are the only outlets covering the consequences of the US abortion bans. If you can see your way clear to throwing them a donation please do. Maybe take the money you used to pay to the NYTimes or the WaPo and redirect to solid, good quality work :)

    Propublica is essentially developing a registry of these deaths using a variety of sources they’re (still) able to access in Texas. It may be the only record we have as these states (and possibly the Trump Administration) shut down monitoring and reporting to hide the death toll. They’ll be filling a governmental role using donated funds.

  31. 31.

    Eunicecycle

    @sab: I used to work at a nonprofit nature preserve and we had the same experience with beavers. They are extremely persistent as well as busy!

  32. 32.

    Phylllis

    Our dinner is coming from a local BBQ place-smoked sliced turkey, their famous collard greens, and potato salad. The cornbread dressing is take & bake from Publix. Just have to heat everything through and crack open the can of jellied cranberry. We did this last year and it was perfect for the two of us.

    The pecan pie is coming from another local restaurant. It’s an authentic Cajun place where my husband can periodically get his muffaletta fix. They are also doing Thanksgiving catering and if I’d known that, I would have ordered from them instead. If they’re doing Christmas, that’s my meal plan.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    One of the big casualties of the hard Right authoritarian turn in the US will be information collection. They won’t collect negative information because that would reflect poorly on the leaders. RFK Jr. doesn’t want actual health stats that might contradict his stupid theories and Elon Musk will cut funding to all nonpartisan government data collection and reporting. Quality nonprofit outlets like Propublica can collect information for us so it won’t be lost forever.

  34. 34.

    Sure Lurkalot

    No one in our gang of 7 likes turkey (and varying dislike and won’t eat other stuff too) so we’re having a feast of small plates/appetizers. I’m making smoked salmon tartare, buffalo turkey meatballs with blue cheese dip and (bought) spinach pies and others are bringing gumbo, tikka masala and some other dish to be determined. I ordered a 3 layer sponge cake with maple pecan crème and I’m making a cranberry gin fizz with Prosecco to get things going.

    No Leslie Jones needed to mix things up, just her humor because we’re all on the same side and depressed as hell about 4 more Thanksgivings with the fucking prick president our idiot country just elected.

  35. 35.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @narya: I have to double check and make sure I have all the ingredients for my vegan pumpkin pie.  Mr. Rudbek already picked up the frozen pie crust and canned pumpkin, but I need to see if I have the cream of coconut and all the spices (in my opinion vegan cooking and baking need more spices than non-vegan as the fat and protein content varies so much from non-vegan)

  37. 37.

    zhena gogolia

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    depressed as hell about 4 more Thanksgivings with the fucking prick president our idiot country just elected.

    I know, right? Let’s hope it’s just four.

  38. 38.

    Peale

    @Kay: As someone who uses economic data for my job quite a bit, I’m relieved a little bit that the Fed isn’t going to come under a Trumpian for at least a year. Howard Lutnick at Commerce though? Who knows. He SHOULD with his background care about accuracy of information, but I think the only reason why BLS stayed clean in the first Trump term is that they mostly had good news for Trump.

  39. 39.

    CliosFanBoy

    @Eunicecycle:

      Huh, when I run a search to find out more, I get the strangest results. Apparently, unclothed young ladies are very involved in restoring wetlands for wildlife,

  40. 40.

    karen gail

    I was unable to sleep the other night and bored; so read opinion pieces. Interesting; somehow these people believe that dictators around the world respect Trump and will listen to his advice. Once again US will the power that runs the world. Lindsey Graham is threaten to sanction any country that supports ICCs warrants to arrest Bibi for war crimes. He called out Canada, France and Germany; promising that if US sanctions them they will become isolated from rest of world.
    Oh, got to love those who believe that Trump will recall all US troops back to US soil where they will guard the border, round up immigrants, help law enforcement and make sure that women aren’t crossing borders to get abortions. Somehow, they will also make sure that sanctuary states and cities are cut off from help they might need for natural disasters.

    These are crazy evil people, many of whom believe that Trump and US troops will make sure that US is the Christian nation that god intended. Let’s not forget that the Bible will be the foundation of US educational system.
    By the time I finished all the opinion pieces I was beginning to think that US is a land of crazies; I am old enough to remember when Nikita Khrushchev said that US would destroy itself from within.
    My dog brought me his food bowl and I decided it was time be up rather than going back to bed.

  41. 41.

    Barbara

    @Kay: I get steamrolled with announcements on health related picks, and usually just read the headlines for my own sanity, but this morning made me think that, if they spend the next four years addressing the unprecedented poisoning of the nation’s food supply with unwanted and untested chemicals we might just get lucky. To be straightforward, the food industry’s reaction will be “no fucking way” or “over my dead fucking body.”  On the one hand, I have no doubt that more than a few of the additives, chemicals and dyes used in food might not pass a rigorous health check — but I also have no doubt they make food, or certain kinds of food, much cheaper.

    I have been food obsessed since my Home Ec classes in junior high and I have achieved a level of knowledge approaching certainty that the nation is not pining for “clean” and healthy food.  It’s like James Watt calling the Beach Boys un-American, on steroids.

  42. 42.

    dww44

    Watching a bit of Morning Joe (with CC on to mitigate the anger induced by having to listening another episode of what Democrats did wrong) as James Carville was on. A note: all the older folks  on this show are of my generation so maybe I’ve a bit more  ability to tolerate their bloviating than most.

    As Carville was predicting a democratic win ahead of the election and had been praising the Harris campaign I was interested to see how he would turn the tables onto Dems as I knew he would.

    Paraphrasing, it’s  the Male vote.  Dems need to figure out how to appeal to white males and stop listening to a bunch of angry whiny females and NPR.

    Again it’s all about the process because our media refuses to not treat the GOP as the anti democracy authoritarians they are.  They are too bought to discuss  the real issues of racism and misogyny

  43. 43.

    Percysowner

     

    My kids to to my son-in-law’s mom’s house for Thanksgiving, so I’m doing solo, which is fine by me. We are going to go to brunch over the weekend, because my daughter is just not up to cooking, which again is fine by me. Admittedly this is the worst time of year for me, December has never been kind to me and I just have to white knuckle it until mid January.

  44. 44.

    Suzanne

    I will note that I much prefer the traditional Christmas dinner. My prime rib last year was fucken great. I bought a Yule log from the local French bakery, and it was very yummy, but I like tiramisu even better. So I might make it for Xmas.

  45. 45.

    cmorenc

    @Phylllis:

    crack open the can of jellied cranberry.

    just…ugh.  When real cranberry sauce is trivially easy to make, infinitely more tasty, and doubles as a teriffic topping for vanilla ice cream, as well as a main T-giving table dish.

    –  boil a 1 lb pack of fresh cranberries in a little water – you only need barely enough water that the berries boil rather than burn, they will release lots of water from the berries as they pop open during boiling.
    –  Too much water added for cooking will retard jelling as it cools.
    while berries are still warm, incrementally add sugar or alternate sweetner to taste – just enough to leaven the sharp natural tartness of the berries to a pleasing taste.
    –  stick in fridge for hour or two to let sauce firm up to easily spoonable consistency.

    Voila!

  46. 46.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: This is one of those bad things that they do that affects people’s lives but they are unaware of it. They think who cares what information the government collects until they need to know something and get the wrong information. I don’t know that there’s anything we can do about that.

  47. 47.

    Suzanne

    @Barbara:

    I have achieved a level of knowledge approaching certainty that the nation is not pining for “clean” and healthy food. 

    LMAO.
    What ever could have given you this idea?!

  48. 48.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @zhena gogolia: Let’s hope it’s less than 4 years because whatever supreme being, kindly spirit, karma or soundless void we choose to believe in erases him from his miserable, spiteful and cruel existence.

    Maybe I’ll make that into my TG prayer. Fucker brings out the worst in everyone.

  50. 50.

    mali muso

    @Suzanne: ​
     We are also skipping turkey this year in our house. I’ve been eating vegetarian for almost a year now, kiddo and DH are not big fans of turkey meat, so we are making steaks for them and some tasty lentil side dish for me. I do have a free turkey coming to me from the local grocery from all the “points” I’ve accumulated, so I have to see where I can donate it.

  51. 51.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @cmorenc: Those are two entirely different things.  They cannot really be compared.  Chili con carne and ribeye steak are both made from cow but are vastly different.  Similar situation.

  52. 52.

    narya

    @Kayla Rudbek: One year, when cooking for folks who were celiac AND some were dairy-free AND one claimed an allergy to cinnamon, I made pumpkin flan instead; removing the challenge of the crust made the whole rest of it easier.

  53. 53.

    Phylllis

    @cmorenc: Tried making a fancy relish once. I think it was either an Ina Garten or Martha Stewart recipe. There wasn’t enough sugar on the eastern seaboard to make that tart glop edible. Give me Ocean Spray jellied cranberry, haphazardly sliced with a butter knife on a plate just a skosh too small for it and I’m good.

  54. 54.

    Soprano2

    @dww44:  Paraphrasing, it’s  the Male vote.  Dems need to figure out how to appeal to white males and stop listening to a bunch of angry whiny females and NPR.

    Funny, isn’t it, how Carville has decided this election validates his prior positions, which he’s had for decades now. It’s basically throw everyone else under the bus in order to get the white vote back. I can’t believe he doesn’t realize how impossible that is right now.

  55. 55.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @dww44:

    Paraphrasing [Carville], it’s  the Male vote.  Dems need to figure out how to appeal to white males and stop listening to a bunch of angry whiny females and NPR.

    Once again the problem is stated as “We need to get bigots to vote for the party that is anti-bigotry.” Once again white males’ racism and misogyny is our problem to solve. They won’t even say racism and misogyny are wrong or bad or anti-American.

    They say, “Calling them racists doesn’t help!” While that may be true, calling them Real Americans with Heartland Values and Economic Anxiety hasn’t fucking helped either.

  56. 56.

    Trivia Man

    @dww44: any suggestions i can pass on to my sons? They both find andrew tate a compelling philosopher who “really gets it” and “understands how hard we young men have it.”

    One has started sharing GN News links with me – same old same old. Id like an equivalent source to share.

  57. 57.

    Shakti

     

    Two things:

    How do you rate the spite level of “I wish nothing good for (her/him)?”  It’s not Psalm 109 or frenemy (what is the point of frenemies?)  And what does that mean (politically/personally) if you just think it vs being willing to say it to their face?  Asking for a friend me.
    My new jam: I am back in my coffin dancer era and my club era waiting for the beat to drop this Thanksgiving:   Cook the Turkey Not Your Home

    @cmorenc: Sounds delicious. I just wish I didn’t just have a Reaction to cranberry dishes just now I’m getting over.

     

    We haven’t planned T-giving dinner. And I refuse to take the lead because nobody appreciates the extra labor, but they expect it.

  58. 58.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    We go to old friends house for T-Day.  We bring some kind of desert.

    This year, it’s homemade peach cobbler from our neighbor’s peach tree.  For some reason, after several years of basically nothing, the tree produced a massive amount of damn yummy peaches this year.

    Also too, Carville.  He’s right and wrong.  Obviously wrong about the usual appeal to racists but right about not listening to Totebagger radio.  Whiny females? Ah, Jimbo, you’re Example 3 gazillion of the misogyny element in national, electoral politics.  He’s so long past his expiration date.

  60. 60.

    Shakti

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:  He’s a living representation of why triangulation and 3rd way politics sucked (but somehow it’s still better than the raging inferno of Popular-Reject?)

    The Matalins-Carvilles dinner date with the Conways, — yeah.

  62. 62.

    NotMax

    @cmorenc

    Boil?

    Dump ”em into an oversize bowl (without any water added), loosely lay some wax paper or parchment paper on them to prevent spattering (can weight it down with a small saucer if necessary) and microwave.

  63. 63.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Timill: Easier all around, except of course for the people who have to miss the holiday with their family to prepare your dinner.

  64. 64.

    TBone

    @cmorenc: I don’t use water, but some of the juice (or light syrup) from a can of mandarin orange segments.  I stir the chilled orange segments into the chilled cranberry relish at the last minute before serving, and use some for garnish.

  65. 65.

    AM in NC

    @Suzanne:  Yeah, for us, the Turkey has a few important roles to play, none of which involves eating actual turkey on Thanksgiving Day:

    1. Cooking container for oyster dressing to reach full dankness

    2. Gravy

    3. Turkey Soup

    4. Turkey sammiches

    As a supposed “main course”, turkey is a fail.

  66. 66.

    Trivia Man

    @TBone: definitely makes for more distance between us. Neither one voted and that also chaps me.
    Yes, i know this generation has so many things harder than it was 40 years ago. But being resentful and disengaging will not help them or society. They need to find a community because even a small group can give support and resilience.

  67. 67.

    Percysowner

    @cmorenc: ​
     Then there is the really simple cranberry relish. Take bag of cranberries and a naval orange (no seeds) cut off the ends, cut into 8 sections. Throw them in the food processor, add sugar to taste 1 cup can be a good place to start. Some people add a bit of orange juice or Grand Marnier for more a more liquid relish. That’s it.

  68. 68.

    NotMax

    @Tbone

    After microwaving , let cool for a few minutes and then mash ’em with a potato masher, mix in sugar to taste, mash some more and stir in a small can of crushed pineapple and a couple of glugs of orange juice. Also a splash of Grand Marnier (or Drambuie). Final step is to stir in some chopped walnuts.

    Refrigerate overnight to gel. Easy enough to stir in additional sugar afterward if needed. Leftovers freeze well for later meals.

  69. 69.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Soprano2: I know, I sometimes have these funks just like what you describe, and for the same reasons. FWIW, and everyone’s different, I find it helpful to disengage from “regular” news for a week or so. It’s tangential to the real source of the blues, but it’s overall healthier, IMO.

  70. 70.

    Shakti

    @Timill: True. But then that falls to me to make the reservations.

    And then people will brush me off, and then want input at the last moment when it’s too late, etc.

     

    I am also out of executive dysfunction kludge meds and have been for over a month.  I am not the person who should be in charge of any of this. But I am. Because I am the oldest and female.

     

     

    What bothers me is that I am expected to this, people who won’t do fuck all, will endlessly criticize how I do it, say I embarass them at the drop of a hat, and I have spent my entire life running on less than my share of short term working memory.

    Let’s just say having to emotionally manage and herd people who are short tempered  while lacking executive function and working memory (and not exactly being calm) during Helene, Milton and this fucking election is beyond me.

  71. 71.

    TBone

    @Trivia Man: I just went back to church because of what you’re talking about.

    I hope your sons can find some kind of healthy, supportive group that they’ll enjoy being part of, while being lifted out of that toxicity.

  72. 72.

    kindness

    I like turkey.  I especially like open face turkey/stuffing/gravy sandwiches as leftover eats.

    Maybe I’m good at cooking it.  I don’t know.  Since I only get it a couple times a year, it’s a nice break from chicken.  Having said that I made a huge pot roast over the weekend and see my local market has (choice) prime rib for $10 a pound, which means I’m buying a big one of those bad boys this week.

  74. 74.

    jowriter

    @Kay: Been giving to Pro Publica for several years running. When I first donated, they sent me a mug with the motto, “We love it when the bad guys lose.”  So do I.  Well worth the money I used to waste on the NYT.  Long may they thrive.

  75. 75.

    RevRick

    @Leto:

    @sab: It turns out that when we mess around with ecosystems there’s always some negative consequences.
    There’s the story of Yellowstone when wolves were reintroduced. It had a profound impact on the elk, who no longer had free range over the park, which meant riverbanks had natural vegetation grow back, which allowed for the return of beaver and birds, and literally changed the course of the river!
    The same sort of thing will occur with the restoration of the salmon, allowing nutrients from the Pacific to be brought upstream, and bears will shit in the woods, meaning healthier forests.

  76. 76.

    kindness

    @Trivia Man: ‘Yes, i know this generation has so many things harder than it was 40 years ago.’

    I came of age during Vietnam.  Guys on my block were coming home in pine boxes.  I don’t think comparing the cost of housing to death is all that good a comparison.  Some things are better now.  Some things are worse.

  77. 77.

    TBone

    Afterwards, but before making the gallons of stoup (stoup is like the inside of a pot pie).

    The Bobbie! Must have real South Philly rolls:

    Developed by Lois Margolet and named after her Aunt Bobbie Capriotti. Originally served at Capriotti’s in Wilmington, DE.

    https://www.tastingtable.com/1697805/delaware-sandwich-bobbie-thanksgiving/

    I put cole slaw on one side of the roll, mayo on the other. Then turkey goes on the mayo side with a dash of s&p, and a layer of cranberry, then stuffing goes on the cole slaw side.

    The best turkey hoagie in existence.

  82. 82.

    Trivia Man

    @kindness: Yes, dome things better and some worse. i reached adulthood in the 80’s, a relatively safe and convenient shy time slot. Draft and death is certainly a huge hurdle but I didn’t face it.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    @Peale:

    My (younger) friend who works remotely for the feds and is afraid Elon Musk will fire her for no reason is a statistician. She analyzes child health information – accidental deaths, illness, child abuse, etc. They’re going to want to get rid of all that so no one will know what’s happening. RFK Jr can’t have accurate infectious disease info becoming public as this progresses.

    One can see how easy this would be to do across a whole range. They want “show” a reduction in crime? Simply threaten or defund or close the agency who collects that information.

  86. 86.

    Kay

    @jowriter:

    I started supporting them early too. I was a little worried in the beginning because they went off on strange, obsessive tangents. Remember the months long expose of Chinese drywall? I thought “I hope this BROADENS a bit” :)

    It has.

  87. 87.

    TBone

    Ronnie Raygun slashed my plans to become an environmental attorney in the 80s.

    Next best thing was working “at law” without incurring the huge college debt.  I learned things attorneys don’t bother with.  And to this day I am still debt free.  Nada.

  88. 88.

    Soprano2

    @kindness: I made this same point in a conversation with my husband this weekend. Every generation has their own problems and unique difficulties. Each feels theirs was uniquely bad. I think you have to learn to live life in the world you’re in (no matter how much you don’t like it, see my post above). What other choice do you have? When I was growing up interest rates were high, but people were still buying houses. Life didn’t stop.

  89. 89.

    gene108

    @Trivia Man:

    any suggestions i can pass on to my sons? They both find andrew tate a compelling philosopher who “really gets it” and “understands how hard we young men have it.”

    One has started sharing GN News links with me – same old same old. Id like an equivalent source to share.

    If an online counter example existed, I think it would’ve been spread.

    The liberal online space has very few positive things to say about boys, and men in general.

  90. 90.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I don’t think they’ll get rid of it as much as they’ll twist it to make everything seem great under TCFG. People who won’t go along with that will lose their jobs, which probably means your friend will eventually have to find another job.

    I remember there was this MAGA obsession with the U6 unemployment numbers under Obama as being bad; as soon as TCFG was president that obsession pretty much disappeared. Suddenly the unemployment numbers were great! *rolleyes

  93. 93.

    karen gail

    Never liked the white meat on either turkey or chicken so when had first wild turkey (all dark meat) decided turkey for meal wasn’t bad. Funny thing, I didn’t know that turkey was cooked in oven until got married; we always did turkey in Nesco roaster.
    One year I had the whole family (ex’s 34 people) for Thanksgiving; did wild turkey, wild geese and venison. The theme for that dinner was hunted or grown self; the only exception was bread since no one grew wheat.

    Grandma made the best cranberry relish; first we went down road to neighbors and picked up bushel of fresh cranberries. She would either make with oranges or pineapple for special, otherwise she cooked with apples or blueberries sweetened with honey. (from another neighbor.) The day after Thanksgiving she got all the grandchildren to sit around stringing cranberries for garlands.

  96. 96.

    WereBear

    @Shakti: Oldest Daughter/Parentified child here. Post-therapy. All the feels and great sympathy.

    My ND burnout has improved, allows much more function to return, but at unpredictable times. :)

  97. 97.

    trollhattan

    @TBone:

    My kid has experienced Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden and now, to Trump. Think she’s a bit off-keel WRT our political process?

    Has managed to remain debt-free all the way into grad school. Should she achieve the next step, med school, that landscape will change dramatically and her folks will be all “that’s great honey, good luck!”

  98. 98.

    gene108

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    Also too, Carville. He’s right and wrong.

    Democrats do need to do better in attracting the white vote, especially white men. Otherwise Democrats are basically ceding the Senate to Republicans for the foreseeable future.

    Also, Biden’s win in 2020 was largely due to making up the loss of minority voted versus 2016 by doing better with white voters, especially white men, than recent Democratic presidential candidates.

    The 2008 Obama coalition of maximizing minority and new voter turnout without catering specifically to white voters only worked when Obama was running. It had turned out to not be a durable election winning coalition.

  100. 100.

    WereBear

    @TBone: I should have thought of that. I had a pipeline to a scholarship and law school, but the first part got screwed up despite my excellent performance. Didn’t get to take my second year abroad… etc.

    I could see it was going to be how I had cleared the color hurdle but not the double X chromosome barrier, plus, I wasn’t “from there.” Unlike my friend, who was a white male with a long family history in our little town.

    With this kind of writing on the wall, I decided to spend my adult life in NY instead of FL. And I’m glad.

  103. 103.

    TBone

    @trollhattan: good for her, I don’t see how people who don’t remember back past Dubya stay on any keel!  Sheesh, I hope she’s able to persevere, we need her on the Good Doctors team!  (As opposed to Oz and Lapada.)

  105. 105.

    TBone

    @WereBear: me too!!! It’s funny (NOT at all funny) but sometimes things work out for the best.  That’s why I literally run my engine on optimism.  There’s usually a silver lining if we endeavor to persevere.

  106. 106.

    TBone

    @NotMax: no one will ever match the Turkey & Waffles (stoup in a cauldron) made on a wood burning stove, waffles while you watch, on an old school waffle iron at Ye Olde Scarlet D Tavern!  I’m spoiled for life.

  107. 107.

    Ohio Mom

    @sab: We saw that beaver dam last summer. We were going to Cleveland and I said, Let’s take the scenic route and drive through that park.

    We weren’t expecting anything except nicer views than those of the interstate so we were blown away by the history of the park and the beavers.

    I still wonder how the beavers managed to find such a perfect spot for themselves. They are quite the long distant explorers I guess.

  108. 108.

    Anyway

    @Suzanne:  No turkey here either. Filet mignon, baked potato, and a couple of “steakhouse” sides – I am out most of December (business and family travel) and don’t want ANY leftovers.

    @Sure Lurkalot:  Add me to the “depressed as hell” contingent.

  109. 109.

    trollhattan

    @TBone: Thanks. Yes, fingers and toes crossed for January and the MCATs. So many hoops.

    Her takeaway from this election: “They really hate women, don’t they?”

    I have zero evidence to the contrary.

  112. 112.

    kindness

    On a lighter note, I live by the Tuolumne & Stanislaus rivers here in CA.  Both have fall salmon runs.  I bike the Tuolumne up at LaGrange just below the 1st dam on that river.  It’s ranch roads & I can run the dogs off leash there.  I saw some salmon so far.  Not a huge number but some.  It’s always a good feeling seeing big fish up river seeding the next generation.  I know there was a reasonable number just because all the turkey vultures hanging around the riverside trees.  This is their fattening up season too.

  116. 116.

    JML

    I’m looking forward to Thanksgiving. It’s my brother-in-law’s favorite holiday, and they do it up right: lots of great food, plenty of booze, people just hanging out and talking…and the leftovers the next day are spot on. I don’t get turkey very often, especially not a properly brined and roasted one (tough as a single person) and all the fixings are a delight.

    It’ll be the first Thanksgiving since mom died, so that’ll be hard, but she hadn’t traveled for Thanksgiving since pre-pandemic so it won’t be too weird. (Christmas is going to be much much harder for me, I suspect)

  118. 118.

    Ohio Mom

    @Phylllis: I’m betting it was a Martha Stewart recipe. I tried a corn relish recipe of hers and I kept having to add more and more corn to make it edible because the proportion of apple cider vinegar was ridiculous.

    Ina Garten famously checks and rechecks her recipes. I think Martha is always in a rush to fill the next issue of her magazine.

  119. 119.

    TBone

    Hubby sometimes gets in a mood around this holiday which sucks because it’s my birthday too (soon after).  He was hit by a car at 3 y.o. on Thanksgiving Day and was pronounced dead but came back from it. They told his mom he’d never walk again.  After years of cerebral palsy therapy and school and corrective shoes, you’d never know he has brain damage.

    Except when he gets in a mood.  He’s a fucking asshole today.  Thankfully, he’s now napping!

    Also too am thankful he lived.

  121. 121.

    dww44

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: well he and I are virtually same age so no doubt we’re past our sell by dates.

    .  I thought it was telling that he picked on NPR, the outlet my generation X  daughter listens to on the way home from her teaching job at a very diverse high school.I absolutely reject his premise that we must appeal to white males by rejecting female voices and other.  His misogyny was showing big time.
    We do have to figure out first how to reclaim some media space  for liberal ideas.  In the meantime I will support NPR and  MSNBC until such time they are defunded and/or sold off to a conservative oligarch..

  122. 122.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Glidwrith: “pork chops at the home of not max,

    O-oh, pork chops”

    repeat, to the tune of baby shark

    there you go. Different side dishes in the next verses.

  124. 124.

    dww44

    @Trivia Man: This was the report I got from my not very engaged college age granddaughter…that many of her peers weren’t going to vote at all.  She did though and for Harris.

  129. 129.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Sure Lurkalot: your meatballs and salmon and other dishes sound wonderful. So happy you have a troupe of like minded persons to be with on tg.

    what is this salmon tartare? I’ve just gotten the smoked slices, so great on crackers w capers.

  130. 130.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @TBone: anniversaries like that, big physical or emotional events, they just hit a person from inside. Sometimes I get surprised by a feeling state, but then realize what anniversary it is. It just rises up out of nowhere.

  131. 131.

    dnfree

    @Percysowner: I make a very similar recipe.  8-Oz can of crushed pineapple along with the navel orange and the cranberries.  First drain the pineapple juice and blenderize the orange sections (with skin of orstill on), then do 1/2 that mixture with half the cranberries and repeat with the other half of each (because of blender size, I guess).  At the end, stir in the crushed pineapple and up to 1 c. sugar.  Cover and let sit on counter for hours or overnight to blend flavors, then refrigerate.  I always store in a glass bowl—not sure how the acid would react with metal or plastic.

  132. 132.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kristine: Wow, I had no idea. I still had this grudge about WBEZ ditching all the cool music shows and going to all-talk back in the late 90s, but I guess it’s time to get over it. ; )

  134. 134.

    Geminid

    @trollhattan: Some dams on the James River near Richmond, Virginia were demolished a few years ago and now the Shad are repopulating much of their old habitat; a smaller river and smaller dams than the Klamath.

    Smaller fish too, except now some Sturgeon are also coming up the river.

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