the republican assumption that most gov jobs are either graft or make-work corruption is truly telling. most highly qualified gov workers are passing on tons of money to pursue service, but that fundamental unselfishness is so alien to the republican psyche they assume the worst
— just matt 🥥🌴 (@questionableway) November 26, 2024
when i tell republican relatives/friends the offers i got out of law school ($225k big law vs $70k gov) they literally assume i’m lying about the former bc, to them, there’s ZERO reason to say no. accepting less to do service is proof of a failure bc it’s so inconceivable to them
— just matt 🥥🌴 (@questionableway) November 26, 2024
Republicans tend to view earning money as a virtue and a sign of success and accomplishment. I think this is also one reason why there are so many grifter conservative scams that take money from old people but don’t actually do much with the money for conservative goals.
— SNF (@Superninfreak) November 26, 2024
i'm actually making the point that they're evil, but yours works too
— just matt ???? (@questionableway) November 26, 2024
bbleh
I keep going back to Moral Foundations Theory and the finding that, within that framework, one of the basic distinctions between self-described “liberals” and self-described “conservatives” is that the former value “caring” (for others) much more highly than the latter.
It DOES seem to explain a lot imho…
Suzanne
They also think, deep down, that money equals social status and respect, so they are pissed if the liberals they know outearn them.
Cheryl from Maryland
Wayne had a similar choice between Big Law and being a regulatory attorney with the FDA. He discussed his preference of the FDA with me – he would generally be home for dinner and home on weekends, and he would generally be on the side of the angels. The FDA was an easy choice for both of us.
RSA
When I was in academia decades ago, chasing funding, I once worked with a venture capitalist interested in search engines for shopping. In one conversation I brought up open research questions that would be interesting to explore (for context, Google had been founded just a couple of years earlier) and he said, “You’ll forget all about that once the first check arrives.”
I don’t know about his political affiliation, but it was a little bit of a shock to (younger) me, that someone could have no interest in work other than accumulating wealth. He was a little condescending to me. I hope it wasn’t obvious that I felt sorry for him.
trollhattan
Keep punching.
narya
@bbleh: I’m looking for the “like” button; this is exactly it.
Jeffro
It’s kind of amazing, the lengths that MAGAts will go to & the things that they’ll believe, instead of just realizing that they ought to try harder at being better people.
Baud
@Jeffro:
They know they’ll never be better people than us.
Nukular Biskits
Good evenin’, y’all!
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Good evening.
Jeffro
Btw, did anyone see that article in The Hill about Co-President Musk accusing Alexander Vindman of ‘treason’, saying Vindman ‘is on the payroll of Ukrainian oligarchs’, and saying ‘he will pay’?
(might have been discussed earlier – I was busy driving most all day)
Nukular Biskits
@Jeffro:
You’re vastly underestimating the innate need for them to “OWN TEH STEWPIT LIBTARDS, HYUCK!HYUCK!HYUCK!”
moonbat
Hell I don’t expect people to become saints or anything. If they’d just take the basic doctor’s oath to do no harm our country would be in such a better place.
Unfortunately, they have adopted the credo of the bully: Punch down hard and often.
Nukular Biskits
Just got back from a “pre-game” Thanksgiving dinner with the grandkids.
I’m out of energy.
Another Scott
Keep fighting the good fight, everyone.
Meanwhile, … The Time When Charlie Chaplin Entered a Chaplin Look-Alike Contest & Came in 20th Place
People are weird. We have to keep pushing forward, regardless.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Mathguy
My BiL, a reactionary Trump nut job but very successful and fairly sharp, will do anything for family. His brother ( my other BiL) has stupidly gotten into financial deep shit a couple of times (problem rhymes with “bambling”) and he rescued him no questions asked. Anyone outside of family and friends are a bunch of undeserving losers—he has zero empathy. If you aren’t making money you have no value. It is something I’ve seen repeatedly with these types.
bbleh
@Jeffro: @Baud: sure, for “economic anxiety” read “STATUS anxiety” and you’ll be a lot closer to where they’re coming from. The number of comfortable-to-very-well-off middle-class Americans who are “economically anxious” about Certain Other People, say, getting medical benefits, or buying nail polish with their “welfare” money, is … telling.
In part of course it’s the relentless consumerist propaganda we are BOMBARDED with from every direction. You think FOX is bad, this is an order of magnitude worse, louder, and longer. Americans think HAVING STUFF IS GOOD, and if somebody else gets stuff they want, it’s bad.
It’s an ordeal, but speaking for myself at least, getting rid of STUFF feels a WHOLE lot better when it’s done. Like oh that’s what they mean by “material burden.”
Nukular Biskits
In other holiday-related musings, is it me or was the Christmas season moved to the left several weeks earlier than it was last year? Hell, even the local iHeart radio affiliates were playing Christmas songs the 2nd week of November, right after the election.
I have this pet conspiracy theory that our corporate overlords want us to start celebrating Christmas much earlier this year so we’ll either forgot about or won’t notice the absolute shitstorm coming our way next year.
Nukular Biskits
@Another Scott:
Speaking of Chaplin, NPR’s Fresh Air program had a very interesting show about him a few days ago. Highly recommend:
The Exile Of Charlie Chaplin
bbleh
@Nukular Biskits: or they just want us to BUY MORE BUY NOW before said sh!tstorm hits.
As noted elsewhere, if the Trump Crash would PLEASE just hold off until the new year, I would be very appreciative, because then it affects NEXT year’s taxes.
Kayla Rudbek
@Jeffro: he’s projecting more than an IMAX theater
Martin
@trollhattan: Trump still clawed back billions in HSR funding, which Biden restored, but stalled the project out even further.
Trump does have a PR problem to deal with. He surely hopes to lord over a successful 2028 olympics, but he wants to punish the state and city hosting them. What to do?
narya
@Nukular Biskits: and I think that many of us are finding ways to step back, disengage, not deal with their bullshit, and they’re having a damn tantrum. Which, whatevs, go cry to someone who gives a damn about your MAGA ass.
Nukular Biskits
@bbleh:
I should start making notes in a journal as to when corporate Christmas (meaning advertising, music, merchandise in the local big box stores show up, etc) starts.
And, yes, I’m an old but you’ll be hard-pressed to convince me there’s not a nefarious plot to have half the damned year catering to the commercialism of the holiday.
Bah humbug!
Baud
@narya:
I see that attitude a lot on Bluesky. I’m not confident it’ll last, but it’s nice.
Nukular Biskits
@narya:
And that’s why I finally quit Shitter.
Timill
@Martin: First, you deny Jesse Owens a visa…
geg6
@narya:
Yep, that’s me.
narya
@Baud: I’m hoping that continuing to do it where we can see each other will help. There’s no one answer—people’s risks and situations will differ—but I know that I’m just tired of the bullshit. And I’m in a much better place than so many. Joy Reid called it the eternal victimhood of the conservative tonight, bullying and also wanting us to pay attention to their feelings. Fuck that.
Suzanne
@bbleh:
Agreed.
I have tried, with pretty good success, to limit all gift-giving to items that are handmade, consumable, or books.
Honestly, that’s all I want, too.
Chris
Watching Men In Black for the evening movie.
You know how you can tell a movie’s pre-9/11? The cops (let alone INS) look like, well, cops. No body armor. No helmets. No machine guns. No military gizmos. Feels downright quaint.
(Well yes, obviously the Twin Towers too).
Suzanne
@narya:
The underlying trait that conservatives have — and it never fails to blow my mind — is this bizarre and unhealthy fixation on others. They seem to constantly worry about others’ opinions of them, and they form judgments about others who they shouldn’t give a fuck about. They appear to want to be affirmed, all the time.
Like, why do they give a shit if we are nice to them or not? Why do they care if we respect or esteem them? Why do they so badly want larger society to reflect their tastes and aesthetics? Like, instead of worrying about converting us all to your weird religion, just be countercultural. You don’t need my good opinion.
ETA: Patrick Deneen and Rod Dreher seem to be the worst of this cohort.
narya
@Suzanne: exactly. And we’re basically rolling our eyes and saying, hey, you got your guy, we’re gonna sit back and protect each other as best we can. Enjoy what you voted for, but without our attention. We’re busy trying to survive and work for a better world.
Baud
@narya:
Like I said, I hope that sticks.
They’re going to hurt people and use that to demand we center them.
Kayla Rudbek
@Nukular Biskits: the reverse of Narnia under the White Witch, “it’s always Christmas and never winter” instead of “it’s always winter and never Christmas”
narya
@Baud: I’m hoping we can figure out ways to help people without centering them, but I also recognize I’m talking in massive generalities here. Meanwhile, I’m making bread and a fancy dessert for tomorrow, having dinner with Downstairs Neighbor (who lurks here) and four other friends, and holding good thoughts for the jackaltariat.
ETA even when some people or threads get on my last damn nerve, this feels like a space of people who are trying to live by the golden rule and put good into the world.
WaterGirl
@Jeffro: Someone posted that in another thread, but it hasn’t been on the front page. Appalling.
Pete Downunder
@Kayla Rudbek: Down here when it’s Christmas it’s never winter. Usually in the 30s C (80s to 90s F). It took a while to get used to and all the old Christmas songs like white Christmas sound a bit weird.
John Revolta
@Another Scott: Heck that’s nothin’
WaterGirl
@Pete Downunder: What time is it for you when we have a zoom at 8 pm Eastern?
randy khan
The RW “public interest” groups pay a lot better than the LW ones because they can’t get people unless they do. (The flip side of this is that a lot of LW groups seriously exploit their workers, particularly professional staff, because they expect people to sacrifice for the cause.)
Anne Laurie
A long-term acquaintance, good Christian & actual rocket scientist, once screamed at me that keeping nativity scenes out of town halls ‘denied his religious freedom as an Evangelist‘, which made *me* the real bigot. If he wasn’t allowed to (symbolically) Preach the Good Word everywhere, at all times, he was being cruelly oppressed!!!
I suspect the not-so-good Christianists that make up so much of MAGAt Nation have internalized this form of ‘Our god-emperor wants us to spread His word 24/7’ as a warped excuse for being whiny pests. Heck, it may be part of the whole megachurch prosperity-gospel creed — but I ain’t gonna kill any more brain cells listening to those sermons as research.
randy khan
@Nukular Biskits:
SiriusXM started up the holiday channels on November 1, which is their usual date. They also cut them off at the end of the day on December 25, so they start and end earlier than most other outlets. It also seems like there are 25 of them this year, which is about 20 more than seems reasonable.
Martin
Noticing liberals in my social media are wondering why Democrats are tolerating Musk doxxing and threatening federal employees. That’s not a great dynamic.
lowtechcyclist
@Nukular Biskits:
I’ve got photos on my phone from earlier this year of several aisles of Christmas merch at the local Wal-Mart. The date on the photos is September 21.
WaterGirl
@Martin:
It sure isn’t.
Quinerly
@Martin:
Musk is on a roll today. He’s also threatening Alexander Vindman with treason over Ukraine. (article from The Hill)
Speaking of Ukraine…..Silverman’s post tonight is a must read.
RevRick
@bbleh: One of the foundational conservative beliefs is that people are basically rotten. They assume the worst about others. It’s why they buy so many guns to “defend themselves,” and why they are absolutely convinced that Democrats cheat to win elections. They will insist this must be the case, because they know they would if they could get away with it. It also leads them to believe that others are always operating from base motives. But most importantly, they believe that people will only behave if they’re threatened with some punishment.
In fairness to them, we can always find instances, both great and small, of people doing shitty things. And, if we’re honest with ourselves, we all have thought, said, and done things that are various degrees of bad. But where conservatives see such things as the norm of human behavior ( which is why conservative women were inclined to give Trump a pass for his ‘grab em by the p#ssy’ boast), liberals see humans as basically good, and human shittiness is the deviation.
Liberals believe people want to do the right thing and will strive to do it. And when we fail, we don’t see it as confirmation of how basically rotten we are, but as a stumble along the way. This can, of course, take some down the path of woo-woo. In the case of my spiritual Puritan ancestors, it made us god damn busybodies at times. Kind of, God has been merciful to you, now improve, dammit!
But the heart of liberalism is the belief in our capacity for goodness and rising above base desires.
I once got into a conversation with a gun nut, who was absolutely convinced that unless he armed himself to the hilt, hordes were just itching to rob and kill him. And I left him completely flabbergasted when I replied, “You aren’t worth the trouble of the bus fare.” His lame response was a “neither are you,” to which I replied, “ you’re right. And I live along a bus line.”
Since conservative minds are convinced people are shitty, they constantly live in fear. Someone is out to get them, that it’s a dog eat dog world, and they can only prove their worth to themselves and others by dominating. They are at war with others, because they’re at war with themselves.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: I noticed a house in our neighborhood had their Xmas tree up before Halloween.
People are weird.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
So, I had the most bizarre argument/interaction with what I assume is a right-winger on a Youtube skit video by SolidJJ.
The commenter contended that Obama was worse than Reagan (he got brought up in the skit video randomly), bringing up Operation Fast and Furious and “giving our enemies pallets of cash”, whatever the hell that meant, for reasons he both personally disliked Obama and why he was “objectively” worse than Reagan.
I countered that Reagan was responsible for the United States’ descent into oligarchy over the last 40 years, hollowing out the unions and the middle class. I also brought up the fact that women have lost rights because he’s the one who courted the religious right and made anti-abortionism a central plank of the GOP.
The guy (I assume) actually agreed with me that Reagan’s economic policies were bad, but he didn’t agree that women’s rights had been taken. He also made an aside, saying I probably thought women would lose rights under Trump too.
When I explained that women already had, thanks to Trump’s SCOTUS appointees overturning Roe, he countered that the Constitution never had a right to abortion in the first place, that the right to abortion was never lost by “being left up to the states”, and that even RBG said that Roe was an overreach.
Lots of BS, which I called it as. I brought up that there was lots of talk by the Republicans who spread that talking point about a national ban, as well as state line checkpoints, monitoring of women’s periods, etc. I also looked up what Ginsburg had said, and guess what? She only said that because Roe had provided a lightning rod for opponents to rally around to attack abortion rights.
I noticed a pattern. Most of my points and counterpoints that contradicted his arguments would be ignored by him, and he would address something else I said that he must have thought was a weaker argument.
Anyway, I also said that fundamental human rights should not be put to a vote and the women, particularly in marginalized communities, in red states would certainly consider their rights lost. He said those women don’t live in red states. I was flabbergasted at this, did this guy think miscarriages only happened in blue states? Life of the mother exceptions are full of holes like swiss cheese in these states.
“Miscarriages are still considered medical emergencies in red states and are promptly treated.”
I flat out told him this was not true and that credible media outlets have reported stories where this has not happened.
“They’re not very credible, then.”
I replied that they can back up their reporting with data and evidence, what have you got?
“Except they haven’t. I live in one of the reddest states possible (Alabama) and it’s still a medical emergency here. It is treated as an urgent matter here and is treated with haste. Please stop letting the talking heads gaslight you.
I replied that nobody has gaslighted me except him, and I brought up the infamous case of the Texas woman who fled to another state to save her own life and told him to visit ProPublica for good reporting on all of this.
For good measure, I mentioned that Reagan had largely ignored the AIDS crisis, as a counter to Fast and Furious, which is pretty quaint in comparison in its scope.
Also brought up Iran-Contra, which was also ignored and not commented on by the dude.
It was an utterly bizarre exchange, it was like talking to someone from a parallel universe. What stuck out to me was this person was apparently fine with the rest of Reagan’s policies, just not trickle down. I also got the feeling that this person doesn’t see Trump as continuing Reagan’s project to destroy the working and middle classes and enrich the rich and corporations because he never critiqued Trump even though he was brought up.
Youtube’s stupid AI content moderation made this a nightmare too. You apparently can’t actually say abortion, make references to death, etc, no matter what the context is
Citizen Alan
Yet another statement directly from Jesus Christ that most RW Christians dismiss as Communist bullshit.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Citizen Alan:
To be honest? Lots of people of every faith that has ever existed have put aside moral lessons from their holy books to get their war on, for example. The Crusades are great evidence of that. Doesn’t excuse them of course, but it’s nothing really new.
It used to be that sometimes they’d make up bullshit rationalizations to whitewash what they were doing, when in reality it’s primarily for their own material gain or to increase their influence/power
The “White Man’s Burden”, for example. The “savages” have to be “civilized”.
Hell, chattel slavery in the US was justified using the Bible and that slavery was actually beneficial for black people!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@RevRick:
Rousseau vs Hobbs
Sister Golden Bear
@Another Scott: Reminds me of when Dolly Parton entered a Dolly Parton look-a-like contest at gay bar — and lost. Which she thought was the greatest thing ever.
Sister Golden Bear
@Nukular Biskits: Thanksgiving falls pretty late this year, creating an extremely short “official” shopping season. I once worked for a consumer products company that made the vast majority of their revenue in Q4 and having one fewer week actually had big financial implications. So it’s probably more the case of our retail overlords trying to extend the shopping season earlier to compensate.
Steve LaBonne
@Anne Laurie: “I am being persecuted if I’m expected to leave alone people who don’t share my beliefs” has been a thing in Christianity pretty much since the beginning. It’s modern liberal Christian sects that are the outliers.
Ksmiami
Liberals and Dems need to face reality. There are no good Republicans. We need to wipe them out
Quinerly
This is all heartbreaking.
Silverman’s post is a must read.
wsj.com/politics/national-security/biden-to-leave-trump-with-billions-for-ukraine-weapons-0594bf32
Nancy
@Baud: Even with pants.
Martin
That’s a reference to the nuclear deal that Obama struck with Iran, which included returning Iranian assets seized by the US, which we didn’t have the right to keep under international law. We were returning the money. The GOP called it a taxpayer giveaway to Iran. It was literally pallets of cash being transferred – it was several billion dollars.
Melancholy Jaques
@Citizen Alan:
And the Lord said:
When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:33-34
Pete Downunder
@WaterGirl: It’s 11 am here tomorrow. We’re GMT +10. Thanks for thinking of me
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
At first quickie skim of the thread read that as Rousseau vs. Hobbits.
Niche pay per view production?
;)
Jay
@NotMax:
Rousseau vs. Hobbes?
Not Calvin?
NotMax
@Jay
Goku’ s spelling threw the eyes for a loop. whilst scrolling
;)
Ramona
Luke Goldstein at TAP points out that downballot progressive populists in swing districts outperformed Harris.
prospect.org/politics/2024-11-22-frontline-democrats-won-with-progressive-populist-messages/
“By looking at frontline swing races, it’s very clear that candidates who anchored their messaging specifically in fighting corporate power overperformed the national ticket. ”
In the article, Goldstein lists these candidates, their message and their performance margin over Harris.
I’m going to try and watch out for articles by other observers offering confirming or counterpoints.
NotMax
Timing is everything.
Microwave oven gave out a loud protracted bellow like a herniated walrus and promptly died. Right as the last of the prep for Turkey Day stuff was in it.
Three guesses what I’ll be searching for on Black Friday. And the first two don’t count.
:)
John Revolta
@NotMax: Walrus truss?
Ramona
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Crazy that you cannot say “abortion” or “death” on YouTube comments. Does it allow “medical termination of pregnancy” and “fatality”?
I’d known the details of the so-called Fast and Furious “scandal” but I cannot recall them now. IIRC, it was similar to the ACORN “scandal” and Benghazi, a completely legal and standard operation by ATF that got widely demonized by the rightwing propaganda machine as something nefarious.
NotMax
@John Revolta
Garage band name?
:)
Ramona
@Quinerly: Heartbreaking indeed! I didn’t dare ask on that thread because I had not been brave enough to read Adam’s posts consistently, but I wondered who in the Biden administration would have been responsible for organizing the logistics to deploy the materiel.
Ramona
@NotMax: Herniated Walrus! I weep with laughter! What did you do? How did you get your prep done?
Geminid
@Martin: There has been more reporting on the $30 million per month transfers from Qatar to Hamas that the Netanyahu government facilitated right up until the October 7 attack. Details include how a Qatari representative was escorted to a border crossing every montcarrying two suitcases of cash. The transfers had to be cash in order to evade U.S. sanctions.
One darkly humorous anecdote: when an Israeli official sounded out a Treasury official about allowing this to be done through the banking system, the Israeli was told no and reminded that he had been pushing the Treasury to sanction a similar transfer the week before.
This is one of the many reasons Netanyahu has blocked an official inquiry into the October 7 attack and its background, and is so desperate to avoid new elections.
NotMax
@Ramona
So-o-o close to completing everything intended to do today. Was able to use the regular stove to finish the short time left.
Thursday’s food prep doesn’t require microwaving. . Can reheat whatever else in the toaster oven as needed until the new microwave arrives. Planning to look for the same countertop one I bought for Mom last year when her range hood microwave went kablooey.
Martin
Unpossible!
Martin
@NotMax: This is the 2nd thanksgiving since I chose to be a vegetarian. Last year we were traveling so this is the first on a new menu. I used to do almost all the cooking and had gotten it down to such a routine that I could day drink heavily and nap and get everything landed properly. I don’t think the new menu is harder, but it’s new and I’m struggling a bit to work the routine out and I’m becoming prematurely irritated that I’m going to have to limit my day drinking significantly.
Jay
@NotMax:
Have you been able to find a good source for a good cheddar?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
But Harris did as well from what I recall in her messaging. So then what else can account for her underperformance?
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Fighting corporate power? Harris didn’t say shit about that.
lowtechcyclist
@Ramona:
If anyone’s still reading this, does the Character Map workaround work there? You just substitute close lookalikes to a letter or two from the Character Map, like âbõrtïõn.
I occasionally comment on Fred Clark’s Slacktivist blog at Patheos, and Patheos has a metric ton of forbidden words, but this workaround works great there, and all it takes is one substituted letter to fool their software.
lowtechcyclist
@Ramona:
Didn’t they find that downballot Dems in general outperformed Harris? Seems that that was cited as support for the argument that enough people just wouldn’t vote for a woman of color for President.
Brant Lamb
@RevRick: They got away with cheating in the Bush-Kerry election, in Ohio. Many punch ballots were double-punched for Bush and Kerry; the punch line? They were sequentially numbered ballots and they were a continuous series with a lot of single-punched ballots for Bush. What does that mean? It means someone ran a rod through them, vertically to vote them for Bush, before anyone else got to legitimately vote the ballots.
Brant Lamb
@RevRick: A coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave man dies but once.
Quinerly
@Ramona: you should ask Adam. Years ago I remember he was very responsive if he was emailed. Adam used to be very active on a lot of threads. And, I miss Cheryl Rofer’s comments and posts. Fortunately, I have met her in person. She actually lives here in Santa Fe. I keep up with her on FB.
I am very distressed by Biden’s presidency. And getting angrier by the day. But best not stir the pot here where the cult of Joey B is concerned. Since July, I have learned that for the most part, BJ is not representative of the majority of the Dems I meet out in the real world.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.
Brant Lamb
@Ksmiami: You know, your phrasing needs some work, SO THAT PEOPLE WON’T MISTAKE you for A PSYCOPATHIC KILLER. Or maybe it wouldn’t be a mistake?
Where have we seen eliminational rhetoric before? It’s on the tip of my tongue……..
Brant Lamb
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Undercampaigning in everwhere but swing states, per Pod Save America, but they could easily be talking through their hats.
We’re really going to have to campaign for the democratic party, every year, all year long. That’s what the right is doing, and normal campaign length is not enough to turn that around for the drooling, decide-at-the-last-minute voters.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
Uh, that’s a load of crap. Anti-price gouging? Check. “I’m not rich as hell.” She absolutely talked about these things. Maybe not to your satisfaction. And what’s with the profanity?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Brant Lamb:
She had about 100 days to campaign and introduce herself to voters. She prioritized her time in swing states because they were must win for the EC. I don’t blame her for that. The rightward shift was actually kept lower in those states due to the intense campaigning
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I hate to burst your bubble, but none of those things are anti-corporatist
And the profanity? What the fuck? Is this the first time you’ve read one of my comments? I don’t hold back.