Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

DeSantis transforming Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

American History and Black History can not be separated.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Bark louder, little dog.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

Donald Trump found guilty as fuck – May 30, 2024!

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Israel is using food as a weapon of war. Unforgivable.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

So many bastards, so little time.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Closing In?

Closing In?

by | 178 Comments

This post is in: 

This is the latest on the hunt for the killer of the UHC CEO:

Police are reportedly questioning a man in Pennsylvania in connection with the New York City shooting death of the UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson.

NBC New York reported that the man being questioned on Monday was in or around Altoona, Pennsylvania – and had been found with a gun similar the one used in Thompson’s killing.

A separate report from CNN said the person being questioned was traveling by bus and had a firearm suppressor as well as a number of false identifications. Citing a senior law enforcement source, the New York Times reported that the man being questioned was confronted at a McDonald’s – and showed the same fake New Jersey identification that police believe Thompson’s killer presented when he checked into a hostel on Manhattan’s Upper West Side on 24 November.

This whole manhunt has re-surfaced a lot of hatred towards the police.  It begins with the disproportionate response to this killing versus the killing of others.  It continues into the lackadaisical search of Central Park that was on the news yesterday and roundly mocked on the social media I saw.  (The social media I saw also included this report that NJ State Police essentially stopped enforcing traffic laws after racial bias was found.)

Some of this is pretty unfair, of course — the killer took enough precautions that this wasn’t going to be an easy case to crack.  But when years of copaganda about how massive police budgets will help keep us safe bump up against the ugly truth of police incompetence, anger and resentment ensue.

Reader Interactions

178Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    I don’t like the media, but some people on Blue sky were criticizing the media for devoting so much attention to this story, which is odd because it’s clearly a story that resonates with the insurance hating public.

  2. 2.

    Old Man Shadow

    My disgust mostly stems from the fact that they poured all of this manpower and resources into finding the killer of a rich white asshole CEO and they don’t do that for every murder in NYC.

    The cops know they’re just tools to protect the rich and their property. For the rest of us, we get the crumbs that fall from the rich man’s table.

  3. 3.

    p.a

    @Old Man Shadow: The cops know they’re just tools to protect the rich and their property. For the rest of us, we get the crumbs that fall from the rich man’s table.

     

     

    It will never happen because you are right, but in the antiunion reaction that’s coming beginning in Jan, if cop unions get whacked, I’ll shed no tears.

  4. 4.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Old Man Shadow: It’s not often that this fact gets rubbed directly into our faces, is it?

    But, as ever, underestimating the stupidity of the American public is a mugs game.

  5. 5.

    hrprogressive

    The refrain on social media that the cops are doing everything to find this guy while literally shrugging at so many other crimes simply because this guy affected one of the Gilded Betters resonates with a lot of people.

    Modern policework has quite literally been all about protecting the interests of Capital, and nothing else.

    To see such a naked transparency in this case means even so called “Low Info Voters” are paying attention to it.

    And, again. It’s not about “public safety”.

    Nobody who isn’t in the Shareholder Class feels the least bit unsafe with respect to this guy.

  6. 6.

    Ohio Mom

    I don’t get it, why didn’t our modern Robin Hood ditch the gun and fake ID? Does he want to get caught?

    I’m reminded of the Woody Guthrie song, Pretty Boy Floyd. The last verse is

    “Yes, as through this world I’ve wandered
    I’ve seen lots of funny men;
    Some will rob you with a six-gun,
    And some with a fountain pen.
    And as through your life you travel,
    Yes, as through your life you roam,
    You won’t never see an outlaw
    Drive a family from their home.”

  7. 7.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @p.a: Oh, no, they won’t whack the cop and firefighters unions– they’ll just word their way around what a union actually is.

    But they have to have the support and cooperation of the “security services” to succeed, and that’s the cops.

  8. 8.

    Chief Oshkosh

    I’ve spent 40 years surrounded by professionals and lay persons who work everyday for criminal justice reform. Very, very few of these people have any respect whatsoever for any single police officer or for police as a force. I know one criminal defense attorney who has had thousands of cases, and tried hundreds. Never, not once in those trials, were the police found to be honest and/or competent. Not once. And not once did the judge, prosecutor, or police force do anything about it, even when the dishonesty was often pretty clearly grounds for charges of perjury or worse. Not once.

  10. 10.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Old Man Shadow:

    The cops know they’re just tools to protect the rich and their property. For the rest of us, we get the crumbs that fall from the rich man’s table.

    Another variation on that (now clipped to my clip file) statement is from Kim Stanley Robinson:

    “Libertarians are anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.”

  11. 11.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Watching the the 2020 docuseries “The Innocence Files” should be on everybody’s list if you want to see, in action, what you just described.

    I remember when it first came out and I saw Barry Scheck’s name involved and thought “good lord, one of OJ’s lawyers, this can’t be good” and never was I more wrong.

  12. 12.

    Gin & Tonic

    IIRC, the same day that Thompson was whacked, some young migrant was stabbed to death downtown because he didn’t speak English. I didn’t see a $50,000 reward for information about the stabber.

  14. 14.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Gin & Tonic: IIRC, the same day that Thompson was whacked, some young migrant was stabbed to death downtown because he didn’t speak English. I didn’t see a $50,000 reward for information about the stabber.

    The reward might be because they think people will want to protect the Thompson killer.

  15. 15.

    scav

    @Baud: I’d rather thought the media was flogging it exactly because IRL (or what passes for it) so many were explicitly not giving a shit or shedding a photogenic tear about it.  Can’t have the public getting above itself, not heeding the gatekeepers and antagonistic to (rich) white male deaths!  The proles must be reminded by sheer repetition to care.

  16. 16.

    TBone

    ACAB except my stepdad, who was anti-racist, Antifa, and upon early retirement from the force became a college professor of American history and Russian history.  The cop stories he told my mom (which I overheard growing up) were hair-raising.  Before becoming a cop, he was a Ross’s Rice Runner marine helicopter “mechanic” in Viet Nam after being at the Panama Canal.  I never believed the mechanic story he told – he never fixed anything mechanical in all the time I knew him.

    Is it any wonder I am an outlier, hahaha!  I worked for years in a law office representing individual police as well as their collective bargaining units for 5 Counties and beyond, and believe me, the good ones are few and far between.  The attorney I’m referring to also represented low level criminals, personal injury victims, and unemployment claims, at the same time.

    Remember, tell them nothing.

  17. 17.

    Old Man Shadow

    @The Audacity of Krope: Assuming the killer had a good reason like the death of a loved one caused by corporate greed, I hope he gets a jury full of people who also know someone who died because of denial of health care.

  18. 18.

    Darkrose

    Daniel Penny was acquited for murdering Jordan Neely. You can kill a homeless Black man in broad daylight in NYC and get off, but kill a white CEO and all the resources of the state will be bent toward tracking you down.

    Same as it ever was.

  19. 19.

    RaflW

    I’m seeing that in 2021, NCY’s murder clearance rate by cops was 56%. Leaving over 200 murders without solutions in a single year. People in NY are right to be frustrated and lose trust.

    And we see lackadaisical policing in lots of places. It’s bad in Mpls. People feel free to drive recklessly, among other things. We see just horrid behavior (not the apology, but the need for it):

    Minneapolis police have apologized for failing to address a local Black man’s complaints of repeated, racist harassment from his white neighbor until after the neighbor shot the victim in the victim’s own yard.

    Since Moturi purchased his home in 2023, he and his wife contacted authorities at least 19 times to report Sawchak for vandalism, property destruction, harassment and threats of physical harm while hurling racist slurs, court records state.

    Police obtained at least three warrants to arrest Sawchak in connection with threats or violent acts against Moturi and other neighbors. But none resulted in his capture, with police claiming Sawchak “actively evaded [them] during prior attempts to contact or arrest him”.

    Finally, from an upstairs window in his home, Sawchak shot Moturi in the neck while the victim pruned a tree that was near the property line with a chainsaw in his own yard. Sawchak had apparently planted the tree with his mother, O’Hara said.

     
    Yes, the Minneapolis police failed to execute multiple arrest warrants on a person who was actively living in his known address. At least the Chief apologized in this instance, but we deserved the DoJ investigation into our systemic cop discrimination against Black people.

    And we’ve had a chronic problem of cops claiming disability since George Floyd, milking our system. We’ve also paid out 10s and 10s of millions in wrongful death settlements.

  22. 22.

    White & Gold Purgatorian

    The rich and powerful are treated differently by law enforcement. Contrast the response to this CEO’s killing with a case in my circle of friends.

    A woman I know was beaten to death in her home last summer. Her injuries were brutal beyond belief. She was an average woman with several kids, a house and a middle class job. The FBI took over the case because of the location and some other legal niceties. A person in her household admitted having a fight with her and leaving afterwards. This person had blood on clothing and in his  vehicle. The FBI spent a couple of days in the house collecting evidence. They only say this is a “suspicious death.” There is no person of interest and, incredibly, no determination that a crime was even committed. They have told her family these investigations typically take 4 to 6 months and no charges can be brought until all the lab results are back. It has been over 5 months and the person who probably did this is still free as a bird. Her children had to negotiate with him regarding her funeral.

    If this lady had been CEO of a big corporation someone would already be in custody and at least there would be an acknowledgment that her death was not natural causes. Yes, the contrast makes me boiling mad. And it makes me even madder to know that if this lady had been a woman of color the law enforcement response would likely be even worse.

  24. 24.

    John S.

    @Ohio Mom:

    Brilliant verse. And unfortunately true.

    Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Jamie Dimon and all their fellow travelers have quite possibly done more harm to people than all the violent criminals, warlords and dictators combined.

    ETA: One of these days, I would love to connect with you outside of BJ. I have learned a lot from your experiences with your autistic son that have helped my journey with my autistic son.

  26. 26.

    lowtechcyclist

    (The social media I saw also included this report that NJ State Police essentially stopped enforcing traffic laws after racial bias was found.)

    This is far from the first time I’ve heard one of these stories where the cops throw a temper tantrum when their racial bias is pointed out.  “If you don’t like the way we crack down on black people and give a pass to whites, we’ll just stop enforcing the law at all.”  Yeah, just a few bad apples.

  28. 28.

    Butch

    @Suzanne: I read that same thing.  For one, although I haven’t eaten at a McDonalds in a very long time, I don’t remember having to show an ID.  Two, as clever as this guy seems to have been, showing a fake ID at a McDonalds seems like an uncharacteristic mistake.

  30. 30.

    Old School

     and had been found with a gun similar the one used in Thompson’s killing.

    I don’t know enough about “untraceable” guns.

    Can one of these printed guns be tied definitively to a shooting?  Or will it just be that a similar weapon was used?

  31. 31.

    @mistermix.bsky.social

    Latest news is the guy had a manifesto and the topic was healthcare companies putting profits above care.

  32. 32.

    trollhattan

    @Butch:

    One walks to the counter, places an order, pays, collects order, leaves.

    At what point does an ID enter into it?

  33. 33.

    Emily B.

    Another customer at the McDonald’s in Altoona called in a tip. The man now being questioned showed the police the fake ID. He’s been identified as Luigi Mangione, age 26.

    I see a Luigi Mangione on Twitter but I can’t get into the site. Anyone check it out?

  35. 35.

    Will

    Blue Sky creating a left wing echo chamber. Didn’t hear anyone say shit about the police until I looked here.

    The MAGAfication of the left continues.

  36. 36.

    raven

    Jesus, does anyone take the time to read the account of the arrest??

    The man being questioned by police in connection to the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson was picked up in a McDonald’s in Altoona, Pennsylvania, after an employee thought he resembled the man in the NYPD’s photos and called the cops, multiple law enforcement officials briefed on the situation tell CNN.
    Altoona police responded to the call and picked up the man, who they say is 26 years old, and searched him.
    In the search, they found a gun with a suppressor — a device that muffles the sound of a firearm — like that used in the homicide and multiple fake IDs, including one that the NYPD believes was used by the suspect in New York City, the officials say.

  39. 39.

    TBone

    @@mistermix.bsky.social: I too have a manifesto along those lines.  Just kidding (I didn’t write it all down), but that doesn’t mean they have the shooter.  They’ll try like hell to use it as evidence but unless they get hard evidence of him actually being at the crime scene beyond a reasonable doubt, I’m going with innocent until proven guilty.  I am biased, obvs.

  40. 40.

    Old School

    @Emily B.:

    I see a Luigi Mangione on Twitter but I can’t get into the site. Anyone check it out?

    My search turns up at least 10 accounts using that name.  I checked out a couple – neither had anti-healthcare company rants, so who knows?

  41. 41.

    JiveTurkin

    Why is this murder such a big deal and not treated like other murders in NYC?  One reason is that the victim was stalked and executed.  And maybe next time the killer will decide that some low-level clerk working for UHC or any insurance company should die.  Just wondering whether the people who seem to be cheering the murderer on would be doing the same if the victim were a mid-level manager for the company?  Or if the killer had used a car bomb and wiped out his family?

  43. 43.

    @mistermix.bsky.social

    The NY Police Commissioned already taking a victory lap:

    “This apprehension is thanks to the tireless work of the greatest detectives in the world and, of course, the strong relationships we have with our local law enforcement partners on every level, local, state and federal” Tisch said.

    I guess the woman working at McDonald’s had nothing to do with it, just the greatest detectives in the world.

  44. 44.

    Glory b

    @RaflW: We had such a thing under Obama,  which Trump’s DOJ promptly threw out (the consent decree.)

    If you think such a thing will happen under Trump, I’ve got a bridge to sell.

    But we didn’t know enough about Kamala’s policies (on her website) I guess.

  46. 46.

    Will

    @JiveTurkin: yeah, people making barely above minimum wage that have to be the face or voice that people interact with for claims take a lot of the verbal brunt already, thank god no one has mistakenly taken it this far with one of them.

  47. 47.

    Glory b

    @Butch: im not sure he’s that clever. Leaving granola bar wrappers & an emptied water bottle on the scene? A city bike that has GPS? Leaving his backpack nearby?

    None of that makes sense.

  48. 48.

    Ohio Mom

    @John S.: Another BJ autism family! I may have lost count, there are many of us. Maybe we should have a meet-and-greet post one day. When we finish reeling from this election. In the meantime, you can ask WaterGirl for my email.

    How old is your son? Mine is 27 and just started working at Goodwill two weeks ago. He’s been going through the racks, pulling clothes that haven’t sold (there is a code on the label showing when the garment was first put on the floor), neatening up the shelves, and I don’t know what else. His goal is to learn the cash register.

    It’s a good job for him: he works alone, very little of that pesky small talk required, he can listen to music on his earphones, there is a vending machine full of junky food, He can use the Uber account the county board gave him to get there and back, and his job coach and boss appear to be kind and tolerant.

    Was that too much boasting? Rest assured, I have a long list of woes as well. My nest will probably never empty and my dying thoughts will be worries about his safey. Was that too bleak?

  50. 50.

    The Audacity of Krope

    The shooter has such a nice smile, though. I think we should let him go. He doesn’t seem like a threat to decent people.

  59. 59.

    Trivia Man

    @Professor Bigfoot: see Wisconsin Act 10 for proof. A half hearted attempt to nullify it for just that reason (unequal treatment of some unions) but IMO that horse left the barn years ago.

  61. 61.

    Chris

    But when years of copaganda about how massive police budgets will help keep us safe bump up against the ugly truth of police incompetence, anger and resentment ensue.

    Incompetence, and indifference.

    The Supreme Court has literally ruled that the police have no obligations to protect the citizenry.  And in recent years, cops have started calling for laws demanding that if a citizen sees one of them having a fight with a non-cop, that citizen should be legally obligated to come and help them.

    At this point, I fully expect that by the end of this century we’ll have an entire secondary class of security thugs, made up of contractors and volunteers.  Who will either accompany the actual cops everywhere as bodyguards and enforcers, or will just do all of the actual legwork that involves some potential danger while the cops stay in their offices and “manage” the investigation.  (The Archie Goodwins to the cops’ Nero Wolfes, minus Nero’s competence, moral compass, and actual, well, interest in doing the job).  Our brave boys in blue are just too important and too valuable, not to mention too selfless and heroic, to actually risk their lives doing police work.

  62. 62.

    Ohio Mom

    @Geminid: I appear to be late to this discussion, looks like the shooter may have been apprehended.

    But again, why keep the gun, it’s not as though there are huge barriers to getting another one.

    I don’t consider myself a criminal mastermind but this seems obvious to me.

  63. 63.

    ema

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    And not once did the judge, prosecutor, or police force do anything about it, even when the dishonesty was often pretty clearly grounds for charges of perjury or worse. Not once.

    Here are two [rare] examples where a judge does his job and sides with the defendant against the police (and it’s in Harris County, TX of all places):

    1) Is Walking While Black the Reason for the Arrest? (3:52 min)

    2) Judge Helps Innocent Defendants (10:31 min)

  66. 66.

    JaySinWA

    From David’s post below, possibly more relevant here, an insurance failure to stop fraudulent billing. They don’t seem to be good at deciding who should get care and who shouldn’t.

    This Propublica article about a bad actor in Helena Montana cancer treatment calls out a number of failures. One that David might have a particular interest in is the insurance industry failures. The first character in the story was a person diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer that was getting covered treatments for 11 years.

    The Warwicks and St. Peter’s eventually settled the case for an undisclosed amount. Weiner was not held liable because he was a hospital employee. Neither the family nor their attorney have solved the mystery of why three private health insurers paid for 11 years of Stage 4 lung cancer treatment. None of the companies responded when I asked.

    More in plain sight stuff:

    Evidence of that high-volume business was hiding in plain sight, in data published by CMS. An analysis of Medicare Part B billing data shows that, from 2013 to 2020, Weiner billed for 40,000 15-minute visits, more than any other doctor — of any specialty — in the nation. The publicly available data offers just a glimpse of what St. Peter’s knew was a much bigger problem. “He’d see 15 patients in 30 minutes,” LaClair told me. This made Weiner rich and apparently missed the gaze of insurance regulators.

  67. 67.

    John S.

    @Ohio Mom:

    I will definitely do that!

    My son is 17, and a junior in HS. He’s at that awkward phase between childhood and adulthood in the eyes of the law.

    I think you’re allowed to boast about your son’s accomplishments — I would be doing the same thing if I could report such great news about my son. One day.

    And no, not too bleak. I think about the same thing all the time.

  68. 68.

    JaySinWA

    @Ohio Mom:But again, why keep the gun, it’s not as though there are huge barriers to getting another one.

    Youthful inexperience combined with lack of humility. I wonder if he had more targets in mind.

  69. 69.

    Josie

    @Ohio Mom: That is the constant worry about my granddaughter (six years old). Can she progress socially to the point of holding a job and a functioning day to day life? She is super advanced in math sklls and average in reading and verbal stuff. Her problem is getting frustrated when her routine is interrupted or her desires crossed. Then it’s meltdown city. We have her in a school specifically for autistic children who can succeed academically, and they are doing good work with her. Our fingers are crossed.

  70. 70.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    It’s amazing how efficient America’s merciless criminal justice system can be when a rich person has been murdered or kidnapped.

    When a Native American woman disappears, or a child of color is murdered?

    We all know the answer to that.

  72. 72.

    Jeffro

    The really amazing thing about the alleged shooter is… that trumpov was busy yesterday publicly reiterating that everyone involved with the J6 Committee deserves jail time, and he’s going to pardon all the J6 rioters who beat on cops.

    Maybe something will register with all the ‘cheap eggs above all else’ voters when the Mango Menace gives both orders before he leaves the Inaugural stage.  But I’m betting not.

  73. 73.

    MazeDancer

    His name is Luigi Mangione. And he is not a mafia hit man.

    And despite being valedictorian of his class at an all-boys prep school, and holding a BA and MA from Penn, he appears to not be so bright.

    Many mistakes, Luigi. Starting with flirting with girl at hostel desk.

  74. 74.

    Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog

    @RaflW:  “That should not have happened,” [Police Chief] O’Hara said. “The Minneapolis police somehow did not act urgently enough.”

     

    Somehow.  Got it.

  76. 76.

    karen marie

    @TBone:  Some years back a bunch of small-town police in Massachusetts were busted for selling drugs they lifted from their evidence rooms.  I would not be surprised to learn that most, if not all of those cops were subsequently hired by other departments.

  79. 79.

    JaySinWA

    @MazeDancer: Yet he did manage to get or create several fake ID’s and get the murder weapon. In many ways he was well prepared, but failed to ditch incriminating evidence after the fact

    And despite being valedictorian of his class at an all-boys prep school, and holding a BA and MA from Penn, he appears to not be so bright.

    Maybe he his “Manifesto” was his MA thesis?

  80. 80.

    No Nym

    @Soprano2: I think the prosecutor could get a sympathetic jury if the jurors are wealthy (change of venue to Westchester County, NY?) and/or corporate leaders of some sort.

  83. 83.

    Chris

    @TBone:

    Ah yes, the plot of Lethal Weapon 3.  Also The Shield.  (Both based on the same real life incident, natch).

    It’s funny.  I’ve read police arguments over at LGM.  And Murc, especially, who tends to be pretty well read on these things and not much of a police apologist, has argued that the police of today, while it’s as bad as ever on some things (police brutality, etc), is a huge improvement over the police of fifty years ago in other ways – things like taking graft, being on the mob’s payroll, being up to their eyeballs in the illegal economy, etc, which used to be ubiquitous, are much rarer now than they used to be, thanks to a lot of work by reformers and the like.

    And, like, part of me would like to believe it, but another part of me seriously doubts it.  I don’t see how it’s possible for an organization that powerful and that acts with such total impunity not to fall right back into being a mafia-in-all-but-name.

  86. 86.

    CODave

    @Glory b: Not a CitiBike. First thing the NYPD did was ask Lyft if the bike was one of their’s and could they track it. It wasn’t.

  87. 87.

    PIGL

    @Ohio Mom: Taking off his mask and smiling for the camera (if that was indeed he) pretty much cooked his goose. That and trying to escape under hot pursuit. He needed a secure place to lie low for a month or three, somewhere he could have reached from the scene by public transit+bike+on foot, with a few changes of clothes to throw off pursuit. That totally works. I’ve seen it on TV.

    With all seriosity, one lesson is just how hard it has become to get away with actions like this, in today’s world.

  88. 88.

    Ohio Mom

    @John S.: Seventeen! On the cusp of adult services. Forgive me if you already know all this:

    I hope you are getting the paperwork together to sign him up for Social Security when he turns 18. He will be eligible for SSI benefits.

    He should also be signing up with his County Board of Developmental Disabilities, if he hasn’t already (Ohio serves children but many states only offer county board services to adults).

    He will be eligible for Medicaid from Social Security or from the county board. Be sure to check to see if there is a difference in what type of Medicaid he’ll eligible for. In Ohio, a Medicaid Waiver from the county Board provides you with Traditional Medicaid, while Medicaid obtains through Social Security requires you to enroll in a managed care company. Be warned that every state handles Medicaid differently and as usual, the devil is in the details.

    And don’t forget to register him with the draft, they don’t care about his disability. If a draft is ever reinstated, they plan to sort it out then.

    I sent WaterGirl a note asking her to send you my email.

  92. 92.

    John S.

    @Ohio Mom:

    Yes! I am working on all those things and more, like guardianship.

    Thankfully, Washington state provides a nice guide to accessing services and is far more helpful than Florida was.

    I also reached out to her, so as soon as I get the info I will be in touch. Thanks!

  94. 94.

    Belafon

    @JiveTurkin: A kid was stabbed by a group for not speaking English. That easily rises up to the level of this killing and yet it’s disappeared from the conversation.

    The police are pursuing this one because of the victims status, and his status was achieved on the backs of the sick and dead. The reason this is being cheered is because of how much this points out how skewed EVERYTHING is in favor of the rich. He’s a stand-in for the system. And you’re not going to make any headway on fixing anything until you realize that.

  97. 97.

    Ohio Mom

    @Josie: And another BJ autism family!

    Six is so very, very young. There is lots of development and maturing ahead of your granddaughter. Ohio Son barely spoke when he was that age.

    In the olden days, no one thought children with developmental disabilities could learn anything, so no one taught them anything and true to the law of cause-and-effect, they learned next to nothing. This is a great time for your granddaughter to be alive (well, except for everything that is not DD related).

  99. 99.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @Belafon: The reason this is being cheered is because of how much this points out how skewed EVERYTHING is in favor of the rich. He’s a stand-in for the system. And you’re not going to make any headway on fixing anything until you realize that.

    Quoted for straight facts.

  100. 100.

    frog

    @hrprogressive:

    Nobody who isn’t in the Shareholder Class feels the least bit unsafe with respect to this guy.

    A person with private health insurance and not in the Shareholder Class, feels safer now.

  103. 103.

    Chris

    @JiveTurkin:

    Why is this murder such a big deal and not treated like other murders in NYC?  One reason is that the victim was stalked and executed.  And maybe next time the killer will decide that some low-level clerk working for UHC or any insurance company should die.  Just wondering whether the people who seem to be cheering the murderer on would be doing the same if the victim were a mid-level manager for the company?  Or if the killer had used a car bomb and wiped out his family?

    Has it occurred to you yet that the entire reason the guy is getting such an unusual amount of celebrity hero-worship might have a lot to do with the fact that he didn’t, in fact, kill some employee way down the totem pole just trying to put food on the table, or employ a method that killed a bunch of innocent people along with the target?

    “But what if…”  I love alternate timelines too, I really do.  Back To The Future 2 was my favorite of the three.  But they have fuck-all to do with what actually happened.

  104. 104.

    gene108

    @No Nym:

    I think the prosecutor could get a sympathetic jury if the jurors are wealthy (change of venue to Westchester County, NY?) and/or corporate leaders of some sort.

    Manhattan and Silicon Valley have the highest concentration of billionaires in the country. Finding sympathetic wealthy business executives in Manhattan won’t be hard. The issue is will any of these Masters of the Universe be willing to take time out of their busy lives to show up for jury duty? There’s a very basic sense civic obligation to appear for jury duty.

  105. 105.

    TBone

    @karen marie: of course they were.  The linked story is much bigger than that, though.  A sample from just a short time frame:

    Nearly 26,000 guns were traced from American crime scenes back to a government agency, law enforcement or the military between 2017 and 2021, the most recently available data, according to a report by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. It isn’t known how many of those were lost, stolen or sold. However, when government auditors investigated firearms that law enforcement agencies reported missing over a 15-year period, the General Services Administration Inspector General found that more than two-thirds had not gone missing at all but, rather, were inappropriately sold or traded —including Uzis and grenade launchers that were never recovered.

    Meanwhile, a separate Government Accountability Office audit in 2018 found $100 million worth of guns and ammunition bought by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was unaccounted for. In response, ICE said that it improved how it would keep track of its inventory going forward; there was no follow-up about the weapons that were already missing. ICE did not respond to CBS News’ request for comment.

    Those cases are just the tip of the iceberg, according to interviews with half a dozen former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents who worked directly on these investigations. Several career agents shared anecdotes about letting police departments off with warnings after repeatedly finding their service weapons in the hands of private citizens. The agents explained that prosecutors have been generally reluctant to charge these cases, and the bureau stated that “it is our goal to educate, not investigate,” according to a 2017 law enforcement memo obtained by CBS News.

    “We’re not looking to prosecute fellow law enforcement officers,” said Eric Harden, former special agent in charge of the ATF’s Los Angeles field division.

    For police departments to get ahold of such high-powered weaponry, each one needs permission from the ATF. Even though it has been the law for more than three decades, the ATF only started vetting every machine gun application for the first time in January 2023 to confirm that a legitimate government agency was making the request.

    I.C.E. is gonna “change going forward” for those who buy big bridges…

  106. 106.

    JPL

    Is it a conincidence that both trump and Luigi graduated from UPenn, although Luigi in a tougher program.    Luigi quoted Peter Thiel’s comment about wokeism and agreed with Tucker’s views on Modern architecture.

  107. 107.

    The Thin Black Duke

    If this guy is the CEO killer, I’m sorry he got caught. What are the odds that he’ll be found dead in his cell, an apparent “suicide”?

  108. 108.

    Steve LaBonne

    I have mentioned before that I am a retired forensic scientist and thus worked with cops (“nice” suburban cops) for years. Very few of them can find their ass with both hands. They were always hoping our work at the lab would bail them out because they were so inept at actually doing investigations.

  109. 109.

    Booger

    @JaySinWA: I did some work on this issue a few years ago, using ProPublica’s lists of anomalous Medicare charges plus scraping social media posts. It was fascinating, and I loved finding those doctors (specialties in particular) who managed to find 3,000 to 4,000 billable hours in a year. CMS did clawbacks on that stuff to the tune of several billion dollars.

  110. 110.

    Chris

    @TBone:

    “We’re not looking to prosecute fellow law enforcement officers,” said Eric Harden, former special agent in charge of the ATF’s Los Angeles field division.

    Picture the public backlash that would happen to anybody in any other field baldly stating that sort of thing as a general principle.

    I mean, fuck, imagine the reaction to lawyers saying “we’re not looking to prosecute fellow lawyers.”

  111. 111.

    VFX Lurker

    @schrodingers_cat: And how quickly the online left swooped in to make him a hero was pretty appalling.

    Yep. The leftists who remain on my Facebook embrace the idea of punish the wicked.

    They conflate this idea too often with help the needy.

    I ran away from “progressives” in 2010 when FireDogLake and her followers demanded that Congress “kill the [healthcare] bill.” They didn’t care if what would become the Affordable Care Act helped people like me with preexisting conditions. They wanted to destroy private insurers, not give me access to healthcare.

    They still think they’re heroes.

  112. 112.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    I doubt that will happen.  The nature of this means Our Corporate Overlords will want a very public fair trial and fine hanging.

    That sets a better example to the rest of us hording tumbrels for future use.

  113. 113.

    gene108

    @MazeDancer:

    And despite being valedictorian of his class at an all-boys prep school, and holding a BA and MA from Penn, he appears to not be so bright.

    There was an excerpt somewhere online that I read about the killing later that day, where a news outlet interviewed someone with experience in contract killings (can’t remember if he was law enforcement or a former hitman), but basically said the killer was not a pro.

    A pro would’ve ditched the gun, and kept things this guy discarded at the scene.

    I think a lot of smart people, who get out of their lane underestimate the details involved in succeeding at something new.

  114. 114.

    TBone

    @Chris: the entirety of the article is mind blowing and I wish more people would read the whole thing.  It’s long-ish, but not that long.

    We ALL need to know what these fuckers are up to!!!

    We need the public backlash of which you speak!

  115. 115.

    JaySinWA

    @Booger: While the claw backs are good, it’s too bad they are too late for the people injured.

    We hear so much about arbitrary and capricious claim denials, and yet there is so much money lost through fraud that I would think should be detected earlier. The accountability system is broken in so many ways.

    ETA Fraud detection would help stop the injuries and should be an incentive for even the most heartless insurers.

  116. 116.

    hueyplong

    @The Thin Black Duke: I agree that the entire health insurance industry would just as soon not experience a highly publicized prosecution. “Shot while trying to make his escape” was probably their preference.

  117. 117.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @JaySinWA: We hear so much about arbitrary and capricious claim denials, and yet there is so much money lost through fraud that I would think should be detected earlier. The accountability system is broken in so many ways.

    Accountability is for the little people.

  118. 118.

    TBone

    @VFX Lurker: there would be no “pre-existing condition” requirements if there were no insurance companies.  That’s a term the insurance companies made up out of thin air to deny access to health care so they could make more profit. Insurance is not health care.

  119. 119.

    trollhattan

    @gene108:

    Ted Kaczynski was tried and convicted here, where two of his murders occurred. Bring that up because Mangione may have been a Unabomber fan.

    Police say a document written by Luigi Mangione does not include specific threats to other people, “but it does seem he has some ill will towards corporate America”.
    Online, there are other possible insights as to Mangione’s thinking. A person matching his name and photo had an account on Goodreads, a user-generated book review site, where he gave four stars to Industrial Society and Its Future by Theodore Kaczynski – more popularly known as the Unabomber manifesto.
    Starting in 1978, Kaczynski carried out a bombing campaign in the US that killed three people and injured dozens of others, until he was arrested in 1996.
    In his review of the manifesto, Mangione wrote: “It’s easy to quickly and thoughtlessly write this off as the manifesto of a lunatic, in order to avoid facing some of the uncomfortable problems it identifies. But it’s simply impossible to ignore how prescient many of his predictions about modern society turned out.
    “He was a violent individual – rightfully imprisoned – who maimed innocent people. While these actions tend to be characterized as those of a crazy luddite, however, they are more accurately seen as those of an extreme political revolutionary.”

  120. 120.

    JaySinWA

    @gene108:

    I think a lot of smart people, who get out of their lane underestimate the details involved in succeeding at something new.

    Hear, hear. This is a large part of the “do your own research” nonsense that trips up so many smart people. I’ve been guilty myself at times.

  121. 121.

    Chris

    @TBone:

    As someone pointed out in an unrelated post I saw elsewhere today, “preexisting conditions” in sane countries are simply called “medical history.”

  123. 123.

    RaflW

    OK, wow if true (Nino is a rep in Maryland)

    @shannonrwatts.bsky.social‬

    MSNBC just reported that Nino Mangione, a Republican state assembly member, is related to the suspect arrested for killing a United Healthcare CEO.

    eta:

    @charlesgaba.com‬

    I don’t in any way blame people for the sins of their family members, but it’ll be interesting to see how Rep. Mangione has voted on various health insurance-related legislation over the years…

    double-eta: Now being reported the suspect is Nino’s cousin.

  125. 125.

    Geminid

    @Ohio Mom: Acquiring a gun and a silencer is not that easy, especially once someone is on the run. I suspect he was planning not to be caught. And in the event, he wasnt caught because of the gun; that will just make his conviction easier.

    As for the conviction, I will take a contrarian view: I predict the shooter will be convicted, and by a Manhattan jury. But I’m not going to argue the point because it’s a prediction about something I think we’ll know for sure this time next year.

  128. 128.

    Miss Bianca

    @lowtechcyclist: I remember the former Sheriff of my county throwing a hissy fit when the state of CO started requiring that cops report racial information on their traffic stops. Said he just wasn’t going to do it, period.

    And the sad thing is…bad as he was, our current Sheriff is even worse.

  129. 129.

    NaijaGal

    The suspect holds both a bachelor’s and master’s in computer and information science from UPenn (same master’s program I graduated from) and was valedictorian of his class at an all boys school in Baltimore whose alums include the Dean and Founding CEO of Kaiser Permanente’s new medical school.

    Philly Inquirer link here.

  130. 130.

    Steve Crickmore

    Surprisingly, it took an elderly McDonald’s employee in Pennsylvania to identify this person. ..with his photo plastered all over the country. Think of if he avoided eating at such a public place as McDonald’s? And the suspect looked the spitting image of Republican state Delegate Nino Mangione of Maryland. He is his cousin. Did anyone else suspect? It wasn’t as the shooter’s views were unknown. https://www.instagram.com/ninomangione2022/p/CmzdjX0unJt/

  133. 133.

    Noskilz

    Murder – particularly a high profile brazen murder – is the sort of thing some level of resources be will thrown at.

    And while this guy did take some precautions, he did a lot of goofy things that most players in a tabletop rpg with nothing more on the line than maybe having to make a new character would not do. Why was he flirting with a Starbucks staffer while all suited up for an imminent hit? Why was he snacking on the job? Why did he keep the weapon? What’s the deal with carrying around the multiple fake IDs? I mean there is “not a professional” and then there is “not thinking.”

    I assume the answer is going to be “some flavor of bonkers”, but once there was a good view of his face, I assumed he would be found sooner or later.

  134. 134.

    Gloria DryGarden

    A friend made this interesting comment on another site

    Thoughts about the murder of a healthcare executive: We have a court system to provide an alternative to private dispute resolution and vigilante violence. It’s required by law, but it’s also a kind of social contract. So when some companies and the oligarchs that run them are so good at manipulating the legal system and can spend so much money on lawyers that they essentially place themselves outside that system, we shouldn’t be surprised if some people resort to private means and vigilante violence to “settle” their disputes.

    Maybe our society is close to that point and the powers that be don’t want to recognize it. It starts with people who are clearly mentally unstable “going postal,” but then it spreads to people who are more mainstream but very angry.

    This is not intended to justify the killing, but to raise a question about where we are as a society.  —A.D.

  136. 136.

    Ohio Mom

    @Geminid: I also don’t doubt he’ll be convicted.

    Someone up thread compared him to the Unibomber. Now I am wondering if he has schizophrenia or some other mental illness. Bi-polar can make you feel invincible.

    I’m not trying to excuse him, it’s just one of my core beliefs to rule out medical conditions when considering causes for behavior.

  137. 137.

    hotshoe

    @JiveTurkin:

    Don’t be a fargin’ idiot unless you have to be.

    People did not, are not, will not celebrate some guy using “a car bomb”

    People are legitimately celebrating the death of a mass murderer worse than Bin Laden. Thompson literally murdered thousands of his customers — he didn’t murder with a gun, he murdered with a keyboard by making company directives to deny folks the insurance they had already paid for, taking away folks’ live-saving medicine. And Thompson murdered for millions of dollars profit, making him one of the highest-paid serial killers I’ve ever heard of.

    People should be cheering for Thompson assassination the same as everyone cheered the death of Mussolini or Gaddafi or Epstein. It’s a moral good when evil men are removed. 

  138. 138.

    Chris Johnson

    @hrprogressive: I’m given to understand he’s reading Hitler, from his Goodreads (if that’s him).

    Gonna say I feel a wee bit more milkshakeducked than you, at the moment ;)

  139. 139.

    JiveTurkin

    @Chris: It certainly did.  But a person who hunts down and executes someone because they have a manifesto has a nasty habit of killing others.  See unibomber.

  140. 140.

    trollhattan

    @Miss Bianca: It’s always possible to find a worse sheriff. Our last one went full Trumper and was wallpapering the county with concealed carry licenses. Any prior sheriff was very stingy to issue them.

  141. 141.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Steve Crickmore:

    And the suspect looked the spitting image of Republican state Delegate Nino Mangione of Maryland. He is his cousin.

    “You can lose your mind, when cousins are two of a kind!”

  142. 142.

    The Audacity of Krope

    @JiveTurkin: If the rule of law doesn’t apply to our moneyed betters, it shouldn’t apply to anyone. I fully endorse mob rule until Trump and his ilk are out of office and out of corner suites and behind bars.

    Now everyone make sure to find a sympathetic mob, it’s your safest bet.

  144. 144.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @hotshoe: I am not celebrating the guy’s death.  I understand why there is very little sympathy for him though.  Lack of sympathy does not equal approval.

  147. 147.

    The Thin Black Duke

    The Mickey D’s employee who dropped the dime on the shooter ain’t gonna have an easy time after this.

  150. 150.

    Aziz, light!

    If the alleged shooter didn’t want to be caught, he wasn’t trying very hard, with his face exposed and gun and manifesto in his pocket. I assume he wants the manifesto to be widely read. He will get his 15 minutes of fame then be convicted, jailed, and forgotten. I bet a lot of women he doesn’t know are going to visit him in prison.

  152. 152.

    df

    @JiveTurkin: I anxiously await this same performative outrage when the next grandmother is denied life-saving care so the next CEO can have another yacht. Given how frequently that happens, I expect a reply within the next hour or so. Thank you.

  153. 153.

    Glory b

    @hrprogressive: No, since he’s one of them, from a family much wealthier than his victim, a prep school/Ivy Leaguer

    He’s been described a a Peter Thiel fan, a center right, bio-hacking tech bro.

  155. 155.

    df

    @hotshoe: I can’t wait to get “well, akshually”-ed by someone while I’m being told to kneel in front of a death pit. “At least we didn’t condone violence!”

  156. 156.

    Glory b

    @df: Hes a rich tech guy from one of the richest families in MD, doubt it’s a insurance denial motivating him.

  157. 157.

    sab

    @trollhattan: County next to mine had a sheriff who announced on book of faces that he wanted people to report Democratic yard signs to him so he could know who deserved protection and who didn’t. And he won the next election by a landslide.

  158. 158.

    Darkrose

    @Glory b: One of his profile pictures on social media is of a back x-ray. Even if you’re wealthy, getting care for serious medical issues and chronic pain can be radicalizing, especially for a young guy who’s previously had family to handle that and who probably never thought about health care before.

  159. 159.

    TBone

    If third graders can get used to the constant threat of being shot, so can CEOs.

    Especially Elno, that dumb motherfucker who xits out motherfucking nonsense about CEOs being duty bound to be “ruthless” for the shareholders.

  162. 162.

    artem1s

    @Baud: I’d still put money on him being a recruit of White Nationalist or the Proud Boys or some libertarian cult of personality. They love white boys with family money.

  163. 163.

    Ruckus

    @TBone:

    After a stint in the military he may never have wanted to touch another wrench or any tool whatsoever.

    I worked in electronics in the navy and decided that I never wanted to do that ever again. It was a great learning experience and I’m good with electronics but do it for money? NFW.

  165. 165.

    Ruckus

    @RaflW:

    One thing is that policing cars/drivers is a lot harder because we have  more than ever. For example Los Angeles County population is over 9 1/2 million and California’s is over 39 million. CA population 75 yrs ago was just over 10.3 million with LA County being just under 1.9 million. It’s grown a tad. And a lot of big cities are similar.

  167. 167.

    TBone

    @Ruckus: ya know, now that I think about it, that’s prolly true!  Dad was vehemently against sleeping in a tent when we were kids because of his military experience too!  My brother was really afraid of bears, but our dad would not sleep outside with us for anything!  Dad outgrew that no tent thing later in life and my brother also outgrew his fear of bears.

    As well, I avoid PCs like the plague after my years of working on them.  I will not outgrow that!

  168. 168.

    TBone

    @Chris: I’m sorry I missed this comment earlier because I agree one thousand percent.  The good ones (like my dad) are forced to go along to get along to the extent they can stand it (hence my dad’s early retirement) to keep their jobs and so they don’t get fragged by their fraternal “brothers.”

    The cop stories my dad told mom were about the other cops, not the criminals they were supposed to be catching. The only times I remember dad talking about criminals were when he caught a bank robber at a nearby pizza joint and then another when he saw the victim of an axe murder.  All the rest of his venting was about fellow cops.

  169. 169.

    Commenter

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t consider him a hero at all, never did, but still think asymmetrical attacks against health insurance executives is a net positive.  I can’t really reconcile this with other parts of my psyche that abhor violence.  I just hate our system that much.

  171. 171.

    Darkrose

    @wenchacha: It’s entirely possible to have privilege in some areas and not others. It’s also possible to shift along the axis of privilege. Without knowing a whole lot about this guy—including whether or not he actually is the shooter—I know that having chronic pain and seeking treatment for it can make people with economic and social privilege get a crash course in being treated like a drug-seeking criminal. That can piss people off, especially when the expectation is that you should be treated cordially because you’re a rich white guy.

  172. 172.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    @Baud: If the shooter has an accomplice named Mario, im going to lose it.

     

    Princess Peach erasure: noted.

  173. 173.

    Paul in KY

    @Ohio Mom: You invest alot of money in a quality fake ID…

    As for the weapon, seems there would have been many random trashcans in Philly or whatever where it could have been ditched. Maybe he thought if any law actually questioned him, the jig was up so try to avoid that and keep expensive weapon.

  177. 177.

    Paul in KY

    @PIGL: I think he needed to have stashed a car in Philly and then just percolated over to it once he left bus terminal. Staying on the bus was sorta dumb, IMO.

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