To summarize: The Korean president told the army “hey guys, come over here, I’m doing a coup” and they came with unloaded guns and just kinda dicked around and when he was like “wtf is u doing” they were like “hey man, you said *you* were doing a coup.”
— Starfish Who Can’t Think Something Witty (@irhottakes.bsky.social) December 5, 2024 at 11:56 PM
Trump and his henchmen have been saying a lot of terrible things, because ‘saying’ is all they’ve got at the moment, and the thought of doing terrible things to people who can’t retaliate is what gives them joy. But talk is cheap, and the actions they propose require coordination — a degree of cooperation we can make sure they don’t get.
Korea has, I am informed, a rather different social culture than ours (‘ornery’ seems to be the default term), a textbook dictatorship on its border, and a living memory of what civil war actually entails. These factors seem to have given the Korean public a head start on stopping the Six-Hour Coup. But we can learn from them!
I'm gonna hit the Clausewitz bong for a sec
What we're trying to do is create friction.
Everything is very simple in war, and the simplest thing is difficult.— Sam (ABeardedPanda) (@abeardedpanda.bsky.social) December 8, 2024 at 4:06 PM
Those little speedbumps might individually mean little but in aggregate, they run down the clock and force the GOP to expend political capital where they don't want to
— Sam (ABeardedPanda) (@abeardedpanda.bsky.social) December 8, 2024 at 4:06 PM
If I'm gonna run with "war is politics by other means, therefore politics is war by other means" I need people to understand that tactical defeats do not result in strategic ones and the costs we can impose over the course of those tactical defeats will have consequences that can be exploited
— Sam (ABeardedPanda) (@abeardedpanda.bsky.social) December 8, 2024 at 4:33 PM
This wasn't over on November 5th, it won't be over on January 20th, and it won't be over if he declares himself god-emperor of America
It will be over when all of us are dead— Sam (ABeardedPanda) (@abeardedpanda.bsky.social) December 8, 2024 at 4:34 PM
War for Ukraine Day 1,020: War Without End
Nukular Biskits
I’m of the opinion that a large segment of the American electorate isn’t interested in learning a damned thing.
Steve LaBonne
@Nukular Biskits:
interested incapable ofWTFGhost
Hey, hey, hey! A little optimism!
It will be over, when there is… well… uh… justice.
Okay, fine, we’ll all be dead, but not for want of trying!
Kay
Apparently there is a housing exchange/rental self- organized by traveling nurses – they save money on housing. Traveling electricians have now glommed onto.this network so the two groups interact. I think this has the potential for romance.
hrprogressive
If enough people realize that, if push comes to shove if they do try to initiate the Trump Reich, people are going to have to do far, far, far more than just post “#RESIST!” on twitter/bluesky/tiktok/insert social media company here.
If it really gets that ugly, real, regular people, are going to have to take physical action.
Maybe not the worst kinds of action, at least not right away.
But something.
I don’t think a lot of people realize that yet.
different-church-lady
[sigh] I’m going to live forever, aren’t I…
Nukular Biskits
@Steve LaBonne:
I stand corrected.
different-church-lady
@hrprogressive:
“BUT THERE ISN’T MORE THAN THAT!”
Gloria DryGarden
@Steve LaBonne:
interested in capable ofwilling tonir perhaps, capable of listening, let alone hearing something that varies from the
koolaidnarrative they are committed to believing.No one is being corrected. Just surmising.
I just feel like crying…
Chacal Charles Calthrop
sounds like Kipling’s great game: “When everyone is dead,” the Babu explains, “the Great Game is finished. Not before.”
frosty
Cool! I think you just answered comment #3 hoping for a little optimism.
SpaceUnit
I haven’t had much to say on the political posts here lately. Doesn’t seem much point to attend yet another meeting of the Balloon Juice Deck Chair Committee.
Shit is gonna get real bad, and we better get used to the idea.
Gloria DryGarden
@frosty: might as well have some electrifying romance and some caring, in the meantime… It’ll help with the optimism, too.
hrprogressive
@different-church-lady:
Sadly, there are probably a LOT of terminally online people who felt that RT’ing all the Resistance Liberals was them “Doing Their Part”.
It didn’t work then, and it damn sure won’t work now.
My hope is that everyone and everything is just too up their own asses to actually get any of this stuff done, and as has previously been posted on this page before, just because they “say” they are going to do X or Y (IE, declare an emergency and mobilize the military to round up brown people) doesn’t mean any of that stuff happens in an instant, if at all, in some cases.
But if it does start happening, people are going to have to get offline for any of this to work.
Nukular Biskits
@SpaceUnit:
Since you brought that up …
I’m wrestling with the idea of how I’m not supposed to fall for the “ragebait” (however you define it) but still stay righteously angry and engaged.
hrprogressive
@SpaceUnit:
People are still arguing over whether it’s even okay to acknowledge the failures of the Democratic Party, so yeah. People are nowhere near ready to grapple with the potential pain and chaos yet.
Ohio Mom
@Kay: Sounds like an idea for a Romcom movie or television series at least.
If you are hoping for a match for your electrician son, I’m pulling for you!
Gloria DryGarden
@SpaceUnit: for a good time, I recommend the Friday night post, “little things that make you happy”
we really might need that as a regular feature
I’ve gone back to re read a few peoples wonderful comments and stories. Nature, kids, pets, snippets
SpaceUnit
@Nukular Biskits:
Beats me. I’m completely lost right now.
Honus
”I need people to understand that tactical defeats do not result in strategic ones and the costs we can impose over the course of those tactical defeats will have consequences that can be exploited“
I’m reminded of the Vietnamese general (I believe it was Binh) who, when an American general remarked that “you never defeated us on the battlefield” replied “That is true. It is also irrelevant.”
SpaceUnit
@hrprogressive:
Yup. All the constant bickering ain’t gonna do jack shit. We’re fucked.
Shana
I don’t know if anyone above has mentioned it, but another difference is that until 1989 South Korea was a military dictatorship, not a democracy. Even more than the Korean War that is a living memory for Koreans.
WTFGhost
Since it’s an open thread, I’d like to call out a bit of hypocrisy – which isn’t necessarily a bad thing! – when we, collectively, as Americans, say that “political violence is never justified!” because if we believe that, we’ll be under the domain of King Willy – and that just won’t happen. Just the name. Sorry.
Yes, I did that lead in just for a joke, but, “violence” is an interesting thing to a person who’s listened to libertarians.
The CEO is what every libertarian imagines they *are*, and the shooting is what every libertarian who isn’t a dummy knows will *happen*. The libertarian mindset is, you should only commit violence through paper and poison, and other untraceables, and should never, ever, ever do precisely what todays technologies allow you to do, gimmick together a gun and hurt someone, who is only committing violence through paper and poison.
Because in our spirit, we *know* the greedy CEO who allows necessary care to be denied *is* responsible for killing people. The only way to prevent such killings (because we know greed will demand as much killing – excuse me, cost savings – as possible) is that most horrible of words, the words that clear the room faster than the most toxic fart, REGULATIONS.
I know, I know, sorry, but, since “deregulation” is thrown around as an unalloyed good, we allow more greed, to demand more deaths-I-mean-cost-savings,
So there are, let’s say, *confused* emotions, right? You recognize CEO committed the violence of paper, and met with the violence of the gun; and you know you can’t say it’s okay to just shoot someone, and yet, and yet, and yet….
Well, the problem is, we need to *consider* the violence of paper, and poison, and so forth, and make it visible violence, and punish it, so people feel there’s justice, and then, there’s no need for more.
No one is in jail for poisoning the entire town of Flint MI – most folks have already forgotten it, I bet. Hee. As Heath Ledger’s Joker put it, “you can blow up a bus full of soldiers, and that’s okay, it’s all according to the PLAN but you threaten to kill one (CEO), and EVERYBODY loses it!”
In America, he could just as easily be saying “you can poison an entire TOWN and that’s okay, it’s all according to the PLAN” and what do you have to do so EVERYBODY loses it? Well, charge a criminal ex-pres with his actual, own, hyep he did ’em, actions, apparently.
Maybe we Democrats need to control when everyone loses it more than we do.
The preceding has been a ramble in an artistic realm, exploring ideas, not trying to develop them. People say you can’t criminalize policy differences, but, when policy differences poison and kill, you need to protect the people from poison and death. How? Jeez, I’m the wispy brained artistic type.
But even the most red blooded red American understands “you can’t let them poison and kill you and your children.” Otherwise, they’d all have been cheering for the police.
Ohio Mom
There are all these little towns in southwest rural Ohio which claim to have had Underground Railroad stops — who knows, maybe some of them did — they are very proud of this history while the truth is, these towns are full of Rednecks who are bigoted against every type of other and who would hardly be hosting runaway slaves should some type of time warp occur.
But the truth is, I don’t think I have it in me to stick my neck out like the hosts in the Underground Railroad did. I doubt I am going to be able to take “physical action” like hrprogressive describes in comment #5.
zhena gogolia
This place has become unbearable.
Jim Appleton
Well, that’s cheery.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: Yeah.
Just like all the other places…
Ohio Mom
@zhena gogolia: You are right, this is thread that needs bailing from.
Nukular Biskits
I don’t understand the doom posting here.
And, yes, I realize that I probably set the tone by opining about how roughly half this country is so damned stupid.
But … unless the humor escapes me, I don’t get slamming Balloon Juice.
ArjunF
The Rs having a trifecta, after *this* election, with no effective guardrails, is actually going to be the literal “dog that caught the car moment”.
After so many years, we are going to have a fully aligned governing arrangement, ideologically and temperamentally. The people who voted for this group are going to find out what this means in real-life.
So far, there has always been some caveat – in ’16, Trump was new and didn’t know how to pull the right levers, GOP still hadn’t gone full Trumpy etc…. Since ’18, it has been divided Government.
The next 2 years will tell us if we are going to revert back to somewhat normal, or this is going to be the reality for the next 20-25 years. If the people like the results, even Ds will move rightward to attempt to regain power – which means supporting these types of policies.
Morbid “train-wreck” watch begins in 3,2,1…
cain
I’m not involved so much on the political threads. I’ve instead gone back to gaming, writing code, and playing guitar.
We aren’t going to solve it here. I will be taking note though which of our Democratic leaders / pols are bending the knee.
Nukular Biskits
@cain:
I envy those of you who have Democratic elected officials.
Here in the benighted third world nation of Mississippi, actual Democratic officials are as rare as hens’ teeth.
RaflW
Trump hates losing, but of course he loses a lot, since he’s lazy and certainly along some lines he’s flat out stupid (maybe along many lines), and he hires for gullible loyalty, not competence.
And when he loses, he pivots away from the thing he’s losing as fast as he can because he can’t stand the momentary discomfort of losing.
So I’m hopeful that lots of annoying little bits of friction can be magnified in his ego to seem like bigger losses. He’ll fall apart. I feel pretty sure of that. He’s old and he’s emotionally very weak.
Baud
@cain:
Smart. I’ve been trying to avoid talking about the future, but I might start avoiding the past and present as well.
geg6
@Kay:
Flight attendants have done this my entire life.
lowtechcyclist
@Kay:
So those nurses, they’re waiting for the electrician or someone like him?
MagdaInBlack
@Nukular Biskits: Half the country has always been stupid, so you’re not at fault. Folks are stressing out with anticipation, and feeding their own fears. This phase will pass. I hope.
John S.
@Baud:
You might have to invent a new classification of space/time in which to exist. Something like elsewhen.
RaflW
@hrprogressive: My brother is a very comfortable, over-60 and highish level biz exec a few floors below the C-suites, but successful, y’know. Anyway over Thanksgiving weekend he mentioned that maybe in the next year or two he’ll find he has to attend a street protest over wrongful deportations or threats of martial law or something, and BF and I later debriefed “Wow, he’s never been activated like that. Ever.”
It’s been a gradual awakening for him. He and his best friend woulda been Eisenhower republicans. Even Mitt Romney circa-MA-Governor type republicans.
But living in TX they and their wives have realized that Abbot, Trump and the rest are just super toxic shit.
Long way round of saying, people can surprise us. In a good direction.
New Deal democrat
This is an email I sent to Josh Marshall in response to his post about anticipatory obedience. Don’t know if he’ll do anything with it, so I figured I would share it here:
———
I have read with interest your posts on “anticipatory obedience,” as well was those by Jamelle Bouie, and this one by Scott Lemieux at Lawyers, Guns, and Money:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/12/dont-preemptively-concede-the-birthright-citizenship-question
The comments to Lemieux’s post are telling, and in my opinion go to the heart of the crisis facing the republic. Namely, that the biggest threat is not Donald Trump, but rather a thoroughly dishonest Supreme Court that has demonstrated its willingness to shred any kind of doctrine standing in his way.
I didn’t read a single comment at L, G, & M kowtowing to Trump on birthright citizenship. Rather, there were plenty of comments that this Supreme Court majority will give him what he wants. This is a Court, as you know, that has shredded long-standing precedent (e.g., Roe, Chevron); relied on likely misinterpreted text when it suits them (2nd Amendment cases), but invented doctrines out of hole cloth when the text is silent or even adverse (Shelby County, “major questions doctrine”) right up to and including virtual nullification of portions of the 14th and virtually all of the 15th Amendments (the Insurrection Clause case and Shelby County); and even conjured a doctrine of Presidential immunity that completely upends a foundational basis for the republic (that “nobody is above the law”).
Brushing aside the obvious text of the Constitution is child’s play for such a Court. Trump wants to run for a third term? Congress must decide if he is barred. Birthright citizenship? The Reconstruction Congress did not intend it to apply to areas invaded and under foreign occupation, so the children of the “invaders” now are similarly barred. (By the way, Judge Ho has already suggested this line in what amounted to an interview auditioning for a Supreme Court seat).
If even I can so easily come up with the Calvinball this Court is likely to play, it is hard to object to so many people who see the obvious.
In other words, I don’t see people obeying in advance. I have yet to read any comment where a person is saying an executive order denying birthright citizenship shouldn’t be challenged. Of course it should be! What I am seeing is eyes wide open to the fundamental philosophical illegitimacy of this Court. Trump without the Court is a wrecking ball. But it is only with the Court that he can succeed in being a tyrant.
———-
To some extent, a (near-) majority of Americans voted for this, and they are entitled to get what they voted for. The complacency of Americans, I.e., “it can’t happen here,” helps enable Trump — vs. the lining knowledge of South Koreans and others who have lived through it. But it is the utter sophistry of the majority on the Supreme Court that is the ultimate enabling tool.
Starfish (she/her)
So the Indivisible people said ask your representatives to ask Harris to publish the ERA if anyone’s into taking a small action and less into whatever it is that is going on here.
UncleEbeneezer
We finally pulled the trigger and booked a week in Mexico City in February. We are going to stay in Coyoacan near the Frida Kahlo museum (which we will definitely visit). A bit away from Roma Norte and Centro (two areas with probably the most tourist sights), about 30-40 minutes by Uber. But Coyoacan is the really pretty, colorful, artsy area with lots of trees so we couldn’t resist. Looks like we will still have a ton of cool restaurants, bars, cafes etc., and for the $ we saved by not staying in the more popular ‘hoods, we will be able to eat/drink out much more :)
eemom
@zhena gogolia:
Then why don’t you get the fuck out?
If there’s one thing worse than all the endless infinite recycling of the same stupid arguments, it’s the whiny ass bitching about the endless infinite recycling of the same stupid arguments.
WTFGhost
@Gloria DryGarden: If’n you feel like crying…
@Steve LaBonne: I’m going to be rude, and use your post to show something about emotional self care. I’m sorry for using you as an example – you just gave an easy example.
Pretending to lecture mode, ON:
See, if you were using cognitive behavioral therapy, you’d admonish yourself, for taking a doom-feeling statement, and strengthening it in a way that feeds your depression (anxiety/etc.). “I’m probably doomed” => “I’m certainly doomed.”
Now, cognitive behavioral therapy (which I can’t call CBT because I’m a pervert) says you don’t strengthen false statements – you challenge them.
“We can’t beat Trumpism” is a false statement. “We can’t reach other people” is a false statement. “We can’t make things better” is a false statement.
“We don’t understand what information/memes/whatever other people were missing!” is a *true* statement, and not despair-inducing. That’s a *challenge* – not doom.
I see some people complaining about doomy vibes, and, wow, I know doomy vibes pretty well. I can’t tell if someone is blowing off steam, or needlessly doomposting; I don’t know if someone is on a slippery slope to despair while greasing their feet, or confidently whistling past the metaphorical graveyard.
But I can say that the one thing you did – and yes, just a joke, I *said* I was being rude – where you correct something bad, into something worse? While it’s *funny*, eventually you stop laughing and think it’s 100%, unchangeably, true.
Depression, despair, anxiety, a sullen disgust with, and contempt for, much of the human race – it doesn’t matter *where* it leads, it’s not good.
I think I posted a bit earlier, on another thread: if stuff that’s normally funny now seems stupid or disgusting, that’s a depression sign, something that merits checking in on.
One of the best ways to *combat* depression, is to do the opposite. “I don’t know how to reach Trump voters who should feel betrayed by him, but that doesn’t mean I can’t learn how to” That’s the *opposite* of despair, even if you fail, right?
Sorry again – I saw some folks feeling like tossing it in, so I went on my anti-depression bit because depression sucks ass.
hrprogressive
@RaflW:
I am happy to be pleasantly surprised by developments like this, and will always give credit when, and where, it is due.
Anyone who rejects the Fascist GOP and their Cult of Trumpism, especially if it includes potential personal risk, is okay in my book.
Gin & Tonic
@UncleEbeneezer: If you have not been to the National Museum of Anthropology, put that on your agenda.
frog
@ArjunF:
When the mass deportations start, and the tariffs against Canada and Mexico go up, I do not expect our economy to remain stable. 20 years looks too long to me without getting into doom porn.
WTFGhost
@zhena gogolia: Could you say if there’s something special here that’s missing, or that’s too-present? If this place was *necessary*, not unbearable, what would be different?
Listen: I’d like to have a happy, playful atmosphere, I can’t provide that, so I can’t say “try to be the change you’d like to see,” because, duh, *I* can’t, how can I demand you do?
But if you *know* what would be different, if you can put that into words, you might find other people want that too, even if no one’s sure how to get there.
hrprogressive
@New Deal democrat:
FWIW one of my…not “hopes” because that’s not the right word, but…
I do “hope” that, should the Fascist SCOTUS actually go around and legitimately issue some ruling that essentially says, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that American Democracy is fully dead, buried, and tough shit, because “We Said So”.
That’ll be the moment the rest of the American People wake up and say “Oh Hell No”.
It’d be nice if we got to the people waking up before that.
It’s one thing, as you note, for Trump to say or do something.
And yes, we are aware of the “Immunity Ruling” and all that.
But there’s a big difference between things winding their way through the courts and potentially being rejected versus a high court essentially saying “Bow before your new king”.
For all the hagiography about this country’s founding, one thing is for sure.
We don’t do kings here.
MagdaInBlack
@WTFGhost: As someone very familiar with the black hole of depression, thank you.
New Deal democrat
@frog:
Trump got lucky inheriting a strong, and strengthening, economy in 2017, and he wasn’t able to do enough to derail it.
He is inheriting a weakening economy now (the economic debate is soft landing vs. recession), and he has learned how to operate a few more levers. He is unlikely to be so lucky this time.
raven
I thought you’s like this.
Baud
@raven:
I prefer Balloon Juice propaganda campaigns.
frog
@lowtechcyclist:
https://youtu.be/2I2PjLna4C0
Firesign Theater – Waiting for the Electrician or Someone Like Him (1968) (Complete Album)
divF
@Kay: Funny the first thing that came to my mind was “easy maintenance for the defibrillators, in exchange for restarting hearts in case of accidental electrocution”.
New Deal democrat
@hrprogressive: I hope you are right. My fear is that most GOPers will make more and more excuses for the fundamental transgressions that are likely to start happening.
frog
@raven: Instead of propaganda, balloon over Kit Kats or Hershey’s Kisses.
raven
@Baud: Sort of my point. I also understand that many Korean demonstrations and even riots are orchestrated. The cops and demonstrators show up at and afraid on time., the “fire bombs” are not lethal, everyone does there thing and then goes home.
Baud
@raven:
Reminds me of these guys.
UncleEbeneezer
@Gin & Tonic: It’s already on the list. I started to write our list out here but realized my wife has added a couple dozen more sights and it would be too much typing. Our biggies are (grouped by area/day):
• Museum of Anthropology
• Museo of Soumaya
• Pallacio del Bella Artes
• Biblioteca Vasconcelos
• Templo Mayor Museum
• Gran Hotel Ciudad de Mexico
• National Museum of Popular Culture
• Frida Kahlo Museum
• House of Leon Trotsky
• Pyramid of the Sun
Would love to get out to the volcanoes but it would be tough since the tours/hikes all leave out of Roma Norte
raven
@Baud: Yep, here’s a piece about what it was like 57 some years ago.
MagdaInBlack
And, Thank You, AL. I’m a big fan of “throwing sand in the gears.”
Starfish (she/her)
@New Deal democrat: I am hoping there are going to be some marginal Republicans in states that like to perceive themselves as independent going LOOK AT ME. You know, the Joe Manchins of the right. In the past this has looked like Murkowski and Collins; but maybe we have some new Senators who would like to showboat.
YY_Sima Qian
The horrors of right wing hard authoritarianism, martial law & coups (even though the period also saw tremendous economic development) are still well w/in living memory in South Korea. The left (not just liberal) wing remains quite strong, as are unions. Polarized politics for so long post-democratization means much of the population is remain experienced in mass mobilization & street politics. They’ve just deposed a corrupt right wing president w/ authoritarian tendencies (Park Geun-Hye) in 2017.
OTOH, there are features in the SK Constitution that are deeply problematic:
The extraordinarily deep polarization of SK politics has its own pernicious effect. Right now, the ruling party is stalling the impeachment of Yoon, despite overwhelming popular support for this course across the political spectrum, because they sincerely believe the SK Left are Communists, pro-NK, pro-PRC & anti-US. The SK Left does not believe in unremitting hostility toward the North (despite the persistent failure of “Sunshine” policy, albeit often undermined by US hostility toward the NK), does not believe in aligning w/the US in Great Power Competition vis-a-vis the PRC (including the trade & the tech wars), & is especial hostile to the reactionary Right in Japan. That does not mean the SK Left wants to surrender SK interests to “the Communists” or abandon the alliance w/ the US. None of the previous Left Wing presidencies have shown any such inclinations.
There are extremist elements in the SK Left that does have kooky beliefs, but that is the nature of extremists.
The next impeachment vote is scheduled for this Saturday, we shall see if the ruling party continues to obstruct.
eemom
@raven:
From what I’ve read about North Korea, a citizen who even popped one of those balloons would put themselves and their entire family at risk of a death camp sentence.
zhena gogolia
@eemom: You’re so delightful, how can I miss your next scintillating comment?
UncleEbeneezer
This just made my night, :P
Gin & Tonic
@UncleEbeneezer:
It’s Palacio de Bellas Artes, to be pedantic. But, yes, worth a lengthy visit.
MagdaInBlack
@UncleEbeneezer: You made me look it up. And now I’m sorry I did. I hope you’re happy =-)
YY_Sima Qian
@raven: I am seeing reporting from SK media claiming that Yoon had asked his former Minister of Defense to physically strike at the NK balloons “at the source”. The resulting “limited” hostilities would have provided justification for martial law & suppression of the Left Wing opposition (as well as cowing anyone among conservative who might oppose him).
Starfish (she/her)
@UncleEbeneezer: Oh, I see we have reached Balloon Juice after dark.
UncleEbeneezer
Since many people seem to be looking for ways to cheer themselves up and the topic of Korea is at hand, the Netflix K-drama series Crash Landing On You is an absolute delight in every way. If you’ve ever been curious about K-dramas but have never tried one, it is one of two (the other being Mr. Sunshine) that I recommend to everyone. It’s really funny, sweet, has action, romance and some really first rate acting. We just started re-watching it again and I forgot how much we adore this show. It’s also all about the differences between North and South Korea.
eemom
@zhena gogolia:
You didn’t answer my question. Is someone forcing you to read/comment in a place that’s unbearable to you? The dictator isn’t in office yet.
Starfish (she/her)
@UncleEbeneezer: This show was so cheesy and hilarious.
Baud
Via Blue sky
eemom
@UncleEbeneezer:
Pachinko is also an awesome series about Koreans, though in no way a cheerer upper.
Gloria DryGarden
@divF: brilliant
YY_Sima Qian
Already the new normal:
satby
And yet, here you are.
Gloria DryGarden
@Baud: very cool. Thank you. I didn’t know Homo sapiens only left Africa 60k years ago.
I thought I’d read that Neandertals and h sapiens have clearly met and interbred, and here are the markers of that in our dna. I didn’t study it deeply.
have you seen the YouTube’s about homo naledi, in s Africa?
SpaceUnit
@Baud:
Yo, I can beat that.
Earliest Human Constructions
476,000 years old. Zambia.
Gloria DryGarden
@zhena gogolia: I’m glad you’re here. I’m making tea to have with pie. Join me?
Gin & Tonic
@YY_Sima Qian:
I continue to appreciate your well-informed comments on East Asian politics here.
Omnes Omnibus
@satby: Whiny ass bitching about the whiny ass bitching about the endless infinite recycling of the same stupid arguments is, of course, a different thing entirely.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s whiny ass bitches all the way down.
SpaceUnit
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not sure where I fit into that statement, but I’m pretty sure it’s somewhere.
Gloria DryGarden
@SpaceUnit: very moving.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Baud: that and turtles.
I have been limiting my doom scrolling a bit. Some BJ threads are too much for me lately.
I hope we will all remain friends.
Lyrebird
Thank you, that is not something I had heard before, fwiw.
ETA: thanks @Mr. Bemused Senior, too:
Ditto.
Lyrebird
@satby: Indeed!
May I ask, did you send in some of those kitten photos for the calendar? Super sweet bebe kittehs in there! Thanks to you and/or whoever.
SpaceUnit
@Gloria DryGarden:
Yes. I’m convinced that the fields of anthropology and archeology have much to discover.
There’s more to our story than we currently believe.
Gloria DryGarden
@Omnes Omnibus: But at least it’s not woo woo, or self help, or poetry.
The bitching can turn repetitive, but the line for where that is, varies by person. It might just all be grief, and some opine that it’s important to leave room for that.
People are definitely at different levels of grief, worry, reason-searching, and venting. And expressing it in different ways, to a varying degree. Patience levels also appear to vary.
Bill Arnold
@Gloria DryGarden:
Sample paper: Neanderthal-Derived Genetic Variation Shapes Modern Human Cranium and Brain (24 July 2017)
(Suggestive of a larger (on average) visual cortex.)
Martin
@Nukular Biskits: My suggestion the other day was to stop blaming voters and steer your anger to people in power.
Voters aren’t our enemy. We can’t win elections without them.
And you can’t listen to people you are screaming at.
MobiusKlein
@different-church-lady:
It will just seem like forever. It already has in fact
Gloria DryGarden
@Bill Arnold: wow, cool. Are you in this field?
are you the one who posted that cool Sumerian writings thing awhile back, summertime, I think?
I might occupy my intellectual real estate with these ancient human topics, and fold my brain into imagining the past. It’s vastly interesting.
Martin
@SpaceUnit: This documentary was really interesting.
It’s a look at the Rising Star Cave.
Gloria DryGarden
WTFGhost
i don’t get the connection between CBT, and being a pervert. Is there a double meaning?
YY_Sima Qian
@Gin & Tonic: My pleasure, although please take my comments on regions outside of the PRC w/ a grain of salt. I’d like to think I am fairly well informed for a layman, I do not have the same nuanced understanding that comes from living in a country & closely following events for a long time.
SpaceUnit
@Martin:
Dang. I’m going to watch that documentary. Thanks.
This stuff is currently my obsession.
Jay
@Gloria DryGarden:
Cock and Ball Torture.
Gloria DryGarden
@Martin: I’ve been eating up this homo naledi stuff for awhile, in spurts. You know the guy running the research lost a bunch of weight so he could finally get down in there?
The stories of the first call for archeologists and their work in the cave was amazing. Only slender trained mostly female archeologists could even get in there.
The whole story of the cavers, the long narrow route in, the excavating and careful removal of bones , it’s just spellbinding.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: oh. Alright. I missed that entirely. Guess I didn’t know about it, even. Laughing at myself.
rationalman
and it wasn’t over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!
——————-
National Lampoon’s Animal House | Bluto’s Speech
“Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFbGv4zQfpM
——————-
Martin
@WTFGhost:
++
But I’ll note, you need to be in a space where you can withstand that challenge. Took me a few weeks. Not everyone is there yet. Not everyone can get there.
I’ll add, people have a hard time challenging things to which their identity is anchored. I have a real skepticism to identifying as a Democrat for that reason – prefer to keep that at arm’s length so I have space to challenge.
Gloria DryGarden
@Martin: in the quest for questions to ask our trump voting acquaintances, your comment brought me a new thought, to ask,
“what would you like the people in power to do, that will serve your interests?”
Martin
@SpaceUnit: It’s one of those things that will invoke at least one ‘how the fuck?’ reactions. Objectively, the whole thing makes no sense, and yet, it’s a thing that was done, for reasons that made sense to them.
There’s a lesson there…
Bill Arnold
@Gloria DryGarden:
Not in the field, but have read some of the literature re other species in genus homo. There is much that is lost to time, and fossilization of remains is rare.
[imperfect translations of] Sumerian writings are worth reading. They are portals into minds that are wildly different in some ways, and very similar in others.
Different:
UET 6/2 251 1-8. (cf. UET 6/2 252, 6.2.5: YBC 7344, 4.06.1: Seg. C ll. 3-16, 5.2.4: l. 9)
(Most modern humans have lost touch with some things.)
Similar (on the randomness of violence in war):
The battle-club would not find out your name — it would just find your flesh.
The Sumerian myths/pantheon(s) are worth exploring, too.
And for fun have a look at the Sumerian disputations.
Gin & Tonic
@Gloria DryGarden:
Yes.
tobie
A propos Korea: I lost myself in the Korean series My Mister on Netflix because I needed a break from everything familiar for a while. The next series I’ll watch is The Sungkyunkwan Scandal. I’ve lost faith in the US. Happy to spend time fantasizing about another place that is more intelligent, more community oriented, more humble.
WTFGhost
@Gloria DryGarden: CBT is a BDSM practice, and it’s not relevant, but when you see something that you’re familiar with in the context of “oh, yeah, kinky stuff, not my thing, but wow, some people must love it!” you think of the word in that context, only. Maybe for a dozen or more years.
Then you see CBT as THE BEST, most SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN method of CHANGING YOUR ATTITUDE, well, the jokes start writing themselves in my head.
It’s no more or less funny than if CBT was called “spanking” or “whipping”, but *everyone* knows “spanking” and “whipping” while not everyone knows CBT, so, there’s also the thrill of secret knowledge.
Gloria DryGarden
@SpaceUnit: now I’m hoping you get dismissed from jury duty, and can make it Jan 3 to the Denver meetup.
Jackie
O/T, but holy cow! Did anyone watch Rachel Maddow tonight?
I’m just gonna post the RawStory link: https://www.rawstory.com/maddow-intake-form/
Actual questions asked on TCFG’s hiring form for the DHHS. As Rachel says: Don’t fill it out; call the cops!
SpaceUnit
@Gloria DryGarden:
Thanks, Gloria. I’ve been lucky enough to get out of it the last few times I was summoned, but I think my luck might be at an end. I’ve got a pretty low jury group number. Pretty sure I’m hosed.
Kayla Rudbek
@Bill Arnold:
@Gloria DryGarden: and modern people have been having a lot of fun revisiting the Sumerian customer complaints from 1750 BC about and to a crooked copper merchant named Ea-Nasir (memes, Tumblr and Archive of Our Own works/jokes)
Gloria DryGarden
@WTFGhost: I love a good double entendre.
but now I’ve broken through your secretive inner humor. I don’t know a lot of the bdsm achronyms, but that does make it hilarious.
As an English speaker with spanish fluency, there are a few words with multiple meanings, and even in English, I think of the spanish double meaning. The most obvious one is eggs. Definitely two meanings in spanish, so there’s a secret smile, when mentioning it.
There are interesting regional differences, too, so when we all speak together in spanish, the meanings between Uruguay, Mexico, Chile, Puerto Rico, can get um, complex. A Spaniard once asked me to
fuckpass him the salt… The ensuing conversation to clarify what words one can use there, was illuminating.Gloria DryGarden
@SpaceUnit: won’t you get directions ahead, just in case?
You won’t know until the same day. I’ve gone a zillion times, and gotten out by noon or 1. Sometimes one fails on the panels, too.
mrmoshpotato
@Jackie: WTF? These assholes are weird.
Bill Arnold
@Kayla Rudbek:
Abraham is said to have left Ur, for unstated reasons. :-)
Martin
@Gloria DryGarden: I think a lot of answers would be very familiar to Democrats. In a lot of ways we differ on means, not ends. I’m again reminded of the focus groups of GOP voters that gave left-of-AOC socialist rants about how corporations were fucking them over and then proceeded to argue that we needed to round up all the immigrants. Like, you were right there. Someone once said: “Its easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.”
But I think a lot would be unsatisfying. I think a lot is just ‘the grass is always greener’. They hate the political system and want it to change. Harris does not look to upend politics, Trump does, and his vulgarity proves it.
My family is in a position to leave the US. We can get a golden visa, and next year be in Norway or New Zealand. And when we discuss it (it’s a useful exercise regardless) there are more non-affirmative than affirmative reasons – mainly that we want to get out of this, rather than we look forward to that. I pick those two because they are both places that have seen larger white nationalist gun massacres than anything in the US in my lifetime. Like, maybe it’s not all roses and ice cream over there, but it’s appealing because at least it’s not this. And yet, the US has the highest positive immigration rate in the world. People die to get here. That’s literally one of our biggest political problems – that people are desperate to be here.
But I’m tired of this. I’m tired of a system that is more invested in politics than solutions to problems, where elected officials spend more time raising money than fixing things. I don’t know anyone who wouldn’t agree with that. I don’t see Trump as a good solution, but he could be a bad solution. And that’s what Democrats are afraid of.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jackie: oh my word. I’m pretty sure some of these questions are illegal to ask.
but as long as we’re asking:
”Do you throw ketchup at walls when things don’t go your way?
Do you like to pretend your dick is bigger than it is? Do you think intimate thoughts about your daughters?
oh dear. These seem offensive.
SpaceUnit
@Gloria DryGarden:
Okay, I’ll get the directions. Just in case.
Bill Arnold
@Bill Arnold:
Ah, sorry. Genesis 11’s account has him as a son who could be “taken” to a new place.
31 Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Harran, they settled there.
mrmoshpotato
@Gloria DryGarden: “Are you a massively insecure, pile of shit, orange manbaby who likes steak burnt to a crisp like an idiot?”
Martin
@Jackie: I suspect that’s like the intentional misspellings on the Nigerian prince scam emails. The misspellings were a kind of filter to remove people who would be likely to pick up on the scam so they wouldn’t waste their time on them and pass through people who were more likely to fall for it.
There’s no right or wrong answers. If you see these questions and are alarmed by them, you are too sensitive to implement the agenda we have in mind.
On the other hand, they do sound like the kinds of things a guy who killed a bear on the way back from falconing might want to know about you.
Martin
@Gloria DryGarden: I don’t know about federally, but they’re definitely illegal to ask in CA. The problem is, how do you complain to HR when HR is the ones asking the questions?
Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
That whole “no having sex with ReThugs” seems to have had an impact.
Jackie
@Martin: That was my initial reaction: HR does the filtering, and ultimately the hiring, so complaining to HR isn’t going anywhere. I’d definitely take photos and report to the police.
Gloria DryGarden
If it’s a hiring filter, those cra cray questions, imagine who might be willing to still work there..
this is unpleasant to consider.
Ksmiami
@hrprogressive: this Court deserves complete incineration… nothing more, nothing less. Thrown them on a pyre
Martin
@Jackie: It’s the federal government. What the fuck are the police going to do?
Your only real recourse here is an employment discrimination suit against the federal government, which I’m not even sure you can do
Edit: I take this back. It’s not yet the federal government, it’s the transition, which I think is technically a nonprofit or something like that. So maybe you can.
YY_Sima Qian
Trump’s expected further escalation of the trade & tech wars w/ the PRC (as well as tariffs on everyone else) will really strain the US’ alliances. & Trump & Biden have already expended quite a bit of the US’ geopolitical capital w/ partners & allies to wage their current trade & tech wars.
Crabtree danced around this, but if the Trump Administration really asks the US’ allies, partners & neutrals to choose between the US & the PRC, it may not like the answer. Mind you, they will not choose the PRC over the US, but many/most will flip Trump the bird & refuse to go along. & as the PRC does not make them choose, things will naturally flow from there.
Trump’s (& Biden’s) trade war w/ the PRC has not actually reduced dependence on the Sino-Centric supply chain. While direct exports from the PRC to the US have done down, as has the bilateral trade deficit, PRC exports are simply going through intermediaries via transshipment, relabeling & final assembly, while US exports to the PRC is far less amenable to such rerouting. In fact, there is a lopsided asymmetry in the dependence of manufactured (finished & intermediate) goods between the PRC & the West, as the below MERICS reporting shows:
Charts are these links tell the same story. Supply chain diversity is desirable & indeed necessary. Doing so cold turkey is suicidal.
Citizen Alan
@Gloria DryGarden: Neil DeGrasse Tyson once commented on the fact that Neanderthals were historically associated with stupid primitives until right around the time geneticists discovered that humans of European descent had Neanderthal DNA indicating that their ancestors interbred with them while humans of African descent did not. At which point, in what I’m sure is a coincidence, everybody started reevaluating our views on Neanderthals and discovering how intelligent and socially advanced they were .
Martin
@YY_Sima Qian: Yeah, I think a hard line on this would only cement the EU as the center of the western geopolitical world. The threat to leave NATO has similar implications. Dumping those dollars for euros as the reserve currency of choice would send a hell of a message, because that would be necessary.
I wonder too what China might do with the roughly $1T in treasuries they hold.
JaySinWA
Sparks will fly? Hopefully things will be well grounded and electricity will not be in the air. OTOH nurses may get practice with careless electricians. OTOOH short(ed) people got no reason to live
ETA Accentuating the positive while eliminating the negative won’t get the juices flowing.
BlueGuitarist
@New Deal democrat:
this Michael Podhorzer essay presents the main threat as the Federalist Society/Roberts+5/ “billionaires and theocrats” using Trump and R senate majority to further their efforts to “repeal and replace the 20th century by judicial fiat.”
https://www.weekendreading.net/p/is-this-what-democracy-looks-like
He is former AFL-CIO political director, previously coined “margin of effort.”
This piece describes the courts “constitutional coup,”
Explains his characterization of the 2024 election as “legal but not legitimate” and makes a number of other interesting points.
skip the last section “another ‘victory for democracy’?”
YY_Sima Qian
@Martin: An EU committed to liberal values & rules based international order (no quotation marks here, assuming it is not a euphemism for primacy) as center of gravity of the West would be a good thing. Unfortunately, the EU is far too dysfunctional, & far too decentralized structurally, far too sclerotic bureaucratically, & Trans-Altanticism far too entrenched, for it to fill the vacuum in this way. Plenty of Trans-Atlanticist think tankers in Europe are already advising European governments to bend to knee to Trump, to avoid being in the cross-hairs. How this strategy could be sustain in view of Trumps entirely transactional & extortionist nature go unaddressed.
Noskilz
I remember what a stumbling shambles his first administration was, throwing in the towel prematurely is foolish.
Trump may not have to worry about re-election, but his minions in the House and Senate do.
The things he promises and threatens are not trivial things, they will take enormous amounts of manpower and resources to attempt, assuming they are in fact attempted, and taking for granted that any of them will go smoothly seems absurd. Most of them are also unpopular and deeply stupid, so don’t handwave that.
Major projects that aren’t helmed by incompentent fools and facing constant legal opposition and likely internal sabotage routinely get bogged down and go off the rails.
It’s fine to be discouraged. It’s only reasonable to be unhappy with the outcome of the last elections. But to just pre-emptively capitulate seems like a bit much.
If nothing else, get into the habit of phoning your Senators and Congressmen with what you are unhappy about. It will give you something to do and as long as you steer clear of actual threats, they basically have put up with it – it might even do some good beyond venting.
MinuteMan
@Baud: Neo-existentialism?
Jackie
Does anyone outside of hardcore MAGA watch OAN? Faux and newsmax apparently rejected him? And, who the hell is Dan Ball?
Aussie Sheila
@Jackie:
Hollee shit! I just watched it. Normally Maddow gets on my goat. She’s so professionally ‘we are all smart here, so let’s just talk to each other’. I get it, she’s a cable news talking head, but Christ almighty I hope rank and file Dems aren’t following her style.
But in any case I watched it. It’s unbelievable.
This stuff is gold for partisan Dems, and above all for Senators who are responsible for ’advise and consent’ on Admin nominations.
If Dem Senators can’t spin gold out of this, they should be replaced. Stat.
There will be plenty of hay to be made from an administration that has a narrow HoR majority, and lots of gop Senators up in 2026 and 2028.
I know it’s hard and what has happened is terrible for the US and the world.
I’m sorry and worried for my country.
But there’s no solution except to learn from what went wrong, and do better next time.
Less time trying to win ‘ideological’ arguments, and more time spent sharpening up local and regional organising would benefit everyone imo.
But I completely understand people’s raw feelings.
prostratedragon
@Jackie:
It’s a dignity test. The Apprentice up-ratcheted.
UncleEbeneezer
@WTFGhost: I sort of giggled when I had my introductory phone call with my therapist and had to mention CBT. That’s why your reference made me laugh. Every time I see/hear the phrase I wonder “do they know what else it means?” lol.
frosty
@zhena gogolia: Unbearable? I agree. But I can’t quit it yet. I’ve started not reading all the comments though.
Aussie Sheila
@YY_Sima Qian:
Well the EU is one thing, but the Asia-Pacific region is quite another.
Australia is well placed to punch far above its weight in the region, providing we can hang on to ALP government next year.
We have good relations with our neighbours including India and large diasporas from every part of the region, including a sizeable and influential Chinese presence in a couple of important electorates. The US needs the biggest, safest aircraft carrier and refuelling depot in the world, which would be Australia, spanning both the Pacific and Indian Oceans.
We have a ton of leverage if we choose to use it.
Roberto el oso
@UncleEbeneezer: I’m pretty familiar with Coyoacan and yes, it’s absolutely beautiful and very walkable. Make sure and say hello to all the cats who make the Frida Kahlo house their home :)
Leon Trotsky’s home is also in Coyoacan and well worth the visit.
Roberto el oso
@UncleEbeneezer: re the volcanoes outside of Mexico City. If the weather is decent you can actually get a good view of them from the top of the Torre Latinoamericana (you ride a cool, creaky elevator all the way up to the observation platform). BTW, the Torre is within a few blocks of the Palacio de Bellas Artes, so it’s an easy two-fer.
YY_Sima Qian
@Aussie Sheila: That assumes, as you say, that the ALP holds on in the next election. If the conservatives return, however, they are always eager to play the sub-imperial “deputy sheriff”.
w/ the increasingly multipolar trend of global geopolitics, & w/ the great powers generally unpopular & either not strong enough or declining, there is a big opening for middle powers to create structures that maximize their (& smaller countries’) interests & constrain the great powers, via a real rules based international order. Assuming the middle powers do not reinforce the new Cold War dynamic & line up along the opposing blocks.
In the meantime, Australia’s recent agreement w/ Nauru is a real mixed bag. On the one hand, Australia is providing substantial funding over the next 4 years, & guaranteeing the much needed banking services to the tiny Pacific nation (a real benefit). OTOH, Australia gets a veto over Nauru’s security, financial & technological engagements w/ other nations (read the PRC), essentially limiting Nauru’s national sovereignty. The interests of small states such as Nauru are better served when there is competition among great & middle powers for their favors, rather than becoming the exclusive sphere of influence of any one power.
As always, Van Jackson has some colorful commentary on this & other relevant topics:
Aussie Sheila
@YY_Sima Qian:
Well re the Nauru agreement, you’ve got me there. I have no idea.
But to your larger point, providing the ALP hangs on to government next year, or if the LNP wins a narrow majority, but the Senate remains progressive, there’s not much the LNP can do to fuck up our current posture. True, the LNP wants to be US deputy sheriff in the region. But no one else here wants that.
Australian disapproval of trump runs to 71%.
Any government that kisses up US arse in those circumstances will get short shrift.
And in addition, there are powerful local interests that have no truck with US China phobia, just because China’s economy is pulling close to the US in absolute size. It makes no difference to us to be blunt.
Sure we could be hit with missiles.
But a land invasion?
Everyone here knows that’s simply impossible.
Check the map.
Why would China be remotely interested, when we are willing to sell them what they need, and we both need clear channel through the South China Sea to do business with each other?
The huffing and puffing by US Senators from both parties, from bumfuck interior US regions notwithstanding, China is a pragmatic land power and we are a pragmatic balancer in its region, with a very large landmass, huge coast line and very good ‘sight lines’ up and down both coasts.
YY_Sima Qian
This is chilling, even beyond what is in the headline. Further evidence of the coalescing of the Silicon Valley based “new defense industrialist techbros w/ the reactionaries, the nativists & the militarists. Gift link below (emphasis mine):
It makes me nauseous to link to an article [partly] written by Maggie Haberman, but this is important.
Good of Rush Doshi, recently of Biden’s NSC, to highlight this:
But perhaps he should not have been so quick to congratulate the nomination of Alex Wong to Trump’s State Department. Presumably, Wong had to pass such a loyalty test.
YY_Sima Qian
@Aussie Sheila: Crossing fingers for Australia in the next election, & may be Trump will spike the AUKUS deal & spare Australia hundreds of billions of USDs in the coming decades.
Aussie Sheila
@YY_Sima Qian:
It is to be wished. For both outcomes.
I know our PM personally from 36 years ago. He’s a good person and a very good fighter ‘close in’. He was a factional warrior before the end of the Cold War. He’s a Party loyalist and a very good manager and balancer of interests.
As a national leader? Time will tell.
The best thing he has going is the ugliest (in every sense) Opposition Leader in a long time, leading a Party that is all over the place ideologically because the interests it serves are fissiparous and not particularly economically unified.
YY_Sima Qian
@Aussie Sheila: But why did the Albanese government continue down the path of AUKUS, even shutting down internal debate w/in the ALP to proceed?
I have been impressed by Penny Wong, but less so by Richard Marles.
Even Peter Dutton has been making sane sounding noises on the PRC recently, perhaps reading the room & learning from the lessons of the last election. I have always thought him a cynical charlatan. Much like the modern GOP, it was shocking to see formerly marginal/extremist voices (such as Peter Dutton) becoming mainstream during Turnbull to Morrison governments, indeed mirroring (& influenced by?) the devolution of the GOP after Trump’s election the 1st time.
TBone
Yesterday while watching old movies on TCM, and later watching MASH, I repeatedly heard a term that I didn’t know. I heard it used three or four separate times, all unrelated at different times, so it is now my Word of the Day:
Four-flusher.
It is perfect for Donold in every way. He’s a bluff, a faker, and also has to flush four times because of the classified papers and hamberders clogging up his plumbing.
Aussie Sheila
@YY_Sima Qian:
1. AUKUS was essentially a ‘done deal’ by the time the ALP reached government, although it was vigorously opposed by a large minority of Australians and by Paul Keating, a PM much beloved by the ALP rank and file. The cost of unwinding it both political and economic was simply too high for a new government. However the longer it goes on and the costs mount, and the more the US acts like an unreliable clown show, the less opposition there will be to simply ‘let it go’.
2. Peter Dutton represents the utter collapse of the socially liberal, fiscally conservative Liberal Party heartland. His predecessor lost government precisely because this block grew sick and tired of the reactionary play book copied from the US GOP that Aus conservatives decided to play. The electorates lost to Independents represent the wealthiest electorates in the country.
3. Dutton’s play for bellicose anti immigrant bullshit votes here is very risky. Bear in mind that just over 51% of Australian households have at least one non english speaking member. These people are clustered in a number of ‘marginal’ electorates, in every Capital city except Hobart in Tasmania.
4. Dutton hails from the Queensland LNP, a fusion of the urban liberal Party and the rural National Party. Queensland is Mississippi with a landmass nearly as large as Texas but with better social services and a population which is much more rural and regional than the rest of Australia.
5. The QLD LNP simply doesn’t ‘vibe’ with the 80% of Australia that is urban, southern and coastal. He is widely disliked, even in his own Party and is reviled by urban ‘liberals’ in traditional conservative urban electorates.
I’m confident that whatever happens next year in the federal election, his trumpian vision for this country is going nowhere.
YY_Sima Qian
@Aussie Sheila: Thanks for the elaboration! Really appreciate it
AUKUS was also opposed by non-lefty voices such as Hugh White & Sam Roggeveen. Its supporters (including those in the ALP) really went after Paul Keating, assassinating his character. Of course, Keating might have gotten a bit cranky in his old age.
TBone
Has anybody seen the news stories about car-sized drones in New Jersey? Apparently for several weeks, big, operator-unidentified drones haven been “terrorizing” (annoying) NJ residents and Governor Murphy. ‘Tis a mystery from my local TV news.
Aussie Sheila
@YY_Sima Qian:
Yes it was and still is. A recent survey of Australians indicated that no one thinks we are going to get the nuclear submarines as per the ‘deal’, and no one thinks we should be tied to US foreign policy as a result. The latter point wasn’t well understood by the electorate at the time.
Recent events in the US has concentrated minds on this topic, and Keating’s opposition is now ‘common sense’ in the electorate at large.
Oh, and make no mistake. The current FP establishment might like to dismiss Keating. Much to their dismay he remains very very popular here and is widely respected for his national posture away from big powers and towards Asia and the Pacific.
TBone
This is why I love crooksandliars:
Remember, Trump Is A Con Man
Don’t Listen To The Liar, Look At The Record
TBone
@TBone: oh. Mystery solved? WaPo from 12/5:
WereBear
@TBone: Yes, that about sums it up.
Also, we don’t scare them properly. They fear what we bring… even though that’s what they want.
Leverage them about losing their Obamacare. It’s one thing to never have something. Quite another to take it away.
These people only do something when they are scared. That is the tragedy of their life. But some of them are aware of being miserable. After stewing in the rancid gravy of their fellow MAGAts, they could become desperate in another way.
When the R’s want to close the borders… it’s on them. Trapping them in the red states. Where they will be eaten first.
I understand in a lot of places the aware people, who never had this complacency, have already fled. Who will do those jobs?
I’ll give you one guess.
WereBear
@TBone: We all know WHY they have growing anxiety, don’t we?
MagdaInBlack
@TBone: Oh, those boys and their LOTR cosplay names. Aren’t they adorable.
TBone
Reposting a comment I made last night on the Closing In thread:
TBone
@WereBear: can’t read that link unless I download a .PDF – does it appear anywhere without having to download?
Or can you summarize?
To all: I want to participate in conversation with all responders but am feeling a bit scattered today because of IRL stuff I must attend to. Please know that I am reading and nodding along!
Geminid
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a Jerusalem courtroom this morning:
After years of using every trick in the book to derail his prosecution for bribery, corruption and breach of trust, the PM finally took the stand this morning as the first witness for his defense.
Besides their obvious hypocrisy, his opening words imply that Netanyahu has been lying his ass off for eight years. This would be an accurate description of the man who, as journalist Noga Tarnopolski likes to say, “Lies as he breaths.”
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: from a crooksandliars story (originally from the Gotti trial):
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:3hd67og56zzdsqhqf2yqs2v7/post/3lcvjfhqef22j?ref_src=embed&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fcrooksandliars.com%252F2024%252F12%252Fthey-had-it-coming-alleged-shooter-uhc-ceo
WuTang IS for the children.
https://crooksandliars.com/2024/12/they-had-it-coming-alleged-shooter-uhc-ceo
TBone
@Geminid: fuck that fucking guy is all I have to say. No, wait:
When’s his book coming out?
WereBear
@YY_Sima Qian: Stupid is not restricted to the US, despite all the evidence we are accumulating…
And one thing I still can’t understand is Democrat’s acquiescent to W destroying our public school system. Teachers were quitting all over and I’m in a blue state.
TBone
Weather forecast today: salty
YY_Sima Qian
@TBone: All the Hollywood dystopian movies are coming true. Life imitating art, imitating life.
WereBear
@TBone: No worries, the PDF is a satirical Chick Tract.
It explains that Cthulhu will be coming to earth and the lucky ones will step up and be eaten first!
The MAGA want us all dead because they have a death wish… at least NOW. Forget them. Make a Coalition of the Sensible.
Our own leaders are too stuck in the past. Look at when they were born, and who they were when they are ten.
Imagine how the world has changed since then. Not to harsh on anyone, but we aren’t seeing the performance we want from these latest models.
That is what upsets me so much seeing people intent on fighting the last war when eight more are pounding at the gates.
Get out of the past. The change was too heavy and it’s already happened. We can’t live there anymore.
And it seems some of our leaders can’t, either.
Chris Johnson
@Martin: I know I never forget that the Russians, as part of making Trump win and as their PRIMARY purpose, are stoking civil war and the collapse of our society (such as it is).
As such I am always, always suspicious of doomposting and circular firing squadding. Doesn’t mean it can’t be legit, but it means I’m always suspicious of it. I try to work from ‘what actively helps the enemy?’ and try to work out ‘what actually would NOT help the enemy?’ and try to go with that.
And then pie/block people indiscriminately while remembering I can (and should!) be doing that in error and have to change my mind about it later. But for the moment, lotta people to wish into the cornfield and it’s really not my responsibility to be SURE they are posting from St Petersburg or, say, Iowa.
TBone
@YY_Sima Qian: last year, my financial advisor told me about a trip he had taken to visit his inlaws. At their newly-built prepper compound in Virginia. He described the estate in detail (and showed photos!), almost laughing about it, but not quite. When I asked who would provide maintenance and security on that sprawling property, and if they planned on using electrical choke collars to keep those underlings in line, he said none of them (including him) had thought that far ahead.
Like, how do you plan to keep “the worker bees” obedient never occurred to anyone involved in building the compound.
TBone
@WereBear: thank you, your every word there is golden!
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Hey, what about us grumpy old bastards? We can be just as whiny as them bitches, I’ll have you know!
TBone
@TBone: my advisor comes off as being slicker than owl shit, but I keep him on as a foil to my other investment orgs where I don’t use an advisor. He is obvs NOT as slick as he thinks he is.
Same. Old. Story.
Also, he has been a calming influence many times even though I never panic. He just exudes “trust me” in a way that few humans in my life ever have. He is always ready with a financial answer that I hadn’t contemplated. So the “no one thought that far ahead” was a one off. I hope!
Geminid
@Geminid: Meanwhile to the north, a triumphant R.T.Erdogan is quoting Turkish proverbs:
People were left wondering whom the Turkish President President has detected “plotting their own schemes.”
His political opposition? Their vehement bashing of immigrants and Turkiye’s lenience towards its 3 million Syrian refugees almost cost Erdogan his reelection in 2023, and has been a constant irritant since then. But now Erdogan’s Syria policy has been vindicated, and with it his hospitality towards the Syrian refugees who now can return home.
However, many claim “the Sultan” was firing a warning shot at the US and its Kurdish allies in Northeast Syria. Others say Erdogan was cautioning Israel against pushing its luck in Syria and the Golan Heights.
But no one is stating the obvious: R.T. Erdogan is coming after Balloon Juice.
WereBear
@TBone: They will be taken over by the electric-collared minions of the more evil bunkers, of course. We’ll all go back to the warlord stage, and won’t that post-apocalyptic life be grand!
I’m not seeing leadership from the usual people. Which makes me think they are in their own mental issues, and I would hope so.
My soul-searching has been easy for decades because I have voted and volunteered and monied. And when it turns out a lot of our criticisms were, then and now, correct, it has a certain kind of rage.
But I’m not a politician. I think it takes a certain skill set and there’s risks.
And even charisma doesn’t always work on everyone. If you are a stupid, self-centered, and greedy person, Trump is your charm.
TBone
@Geminid: ha!
Baud
@Geminid:
It’s about time someone did.
TBone
@WereBear: my fervent hope is that our usual leaders are merely keeping their powder dry until they actually see the “whites of their eyes” moment. We are not yet there. Yes, I am a cockeyed, optimistic crank!
My undergirding dread gets pushed away every day so I can keep my own powder dry. Will go boom when necessary and not until.
lowtechcyclist
@Gloria DryGarden:
Thanks for suggesting that – that’s a keeper.
We’ll be with the (Republican, evangelical) in-laws in Florida in two weeks, and I’ve been mulling over how to talk about our differences in a non-hostile manner.
One other thing that’s occurred to me is to talk about the problem of lacking shared facts anymore, and reaching back to Covid in particular. One family member down there unquestionably had Covid and was on a ventilator for nearly two weeks, so there’s at least that one anchor of a shared fact: Covid itself wasn’t a hoax, regardless of what else might have been true or false.
WereBear
@TBone: That is what is required of him in his capacity. Consider his audiences, and what they expect. I’m guess you aren’t about impressing him with your wealth and maybe he can relax and be more honest.
I highly prize professionals who will explore options and play What If?
Trump learned from Roy Cohn. And there is a gold-plated sucker born every minute! He’s reached so many limits, and yet no one asks What happens when he dies?
I mean, his high level folks are acting like Tony Soprano busting out a big box store, instead of people with a firm grip on power.
Every time they despair of victory, they ratchet up the misery on their base out of those Hitler in the Bunker impulses, and this pulls their people in.
Look at the miserable third of the electorate who acted on bad information, and we DID get our message out.
Because this time, when the bovine hit the blades, they knew they had been lied to.
For the love of pumpkin cheesecake, we can work with that third, who already hated everybody and found that didn’t work.
They know who lied to them. Even some MAGA know. You think we are suffering from uncertainty?
They have the pure Everclear of uncertainty coursing through them. They are between the devil and the deep blue sea :)
Central Planning
@UncleEbeneezer: I read “Biblioteca Vasconcelos” as “Biblioteca Vasectomies” and thought “Wow, there’s a whole library about vasectomies?!” and then had a good chuckle.
More coffee!
WereBear
@TBone: The bunkers are admitting they are going to drive us all to murder.
They are planning for it. That’s probably the squickiest thing yet I’ve realized about our new Ant Overlords.
TBone
@lowtechcyclist: someone elsewhere posted a photo of an actual vehicle they’d parked near yesterday. A minivan with a giant faux syringe strapped on top labeled “genocide,” and plastered with anti-vaxx and Qanon stickers.
I wish you success and urge you to have very thick skin in your endeavor! It may be very frustrating but you can always fall back on laughter is what I’m trying to say.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I’m not sure we even have shared facts on Balloon Juice anymore.
TBone
@WereBear: you ain’t never lied!
TBone
@Baud: 🎯
TBone
@WereBear: 💜
am breaking protocol for you
because you nailed the advisor relationship AND everything else you’re saying today.
He tried really hard to get me to switch all of my investments to him at the outset. I simply told him that I trust my dad more than him (my dad is the one who put the scattershot diversification into the portfolios I inherited).
TBone
@Central Planning: lol!
WereBear
@Baud: I remain feeling united with anyone who has developed loathing for the Orange Menace.
We all express it in our own ways. And I might not agree with theirs. But we do have a common goal, here.
And most of the worlds I move in are determinedly not talking about it, at least not to me. I suppose what causes that can vary, and will be revealed in time.
But there’s only so much loud agreeing with the events of late a person can do with those they might be able to. But IF ONLY and ONE WEIRD TRICK and I’VE FOUND THE PIVOT are for the memoirs we write after.
The global emergency hasn’t ended. We can see that, and I’m not even surprised by anything these incredible assholes come up with, that the Corporate Media studiously ignores, and the weak-minded believe the evil side of the Force.
Most of us know this. Why can’t our leaders decide in the REALITY of the moment and then ACT in a way which conveys this knowledge.
We are the grownups in the room. I don’t care if the brats don’t like it. There is no one else.
All I can do (recovery is also exhaustion) is leave messages from constituents. In my state and my federal representatives, but I once had a long conversation with a young Schumer staffer with a similarly shocking morning after.
I think some of our professionals are baffled by Trump, but they have people who can explain? Why DID everyone high up unite in normalizing so “we won’t panic” when maybe we should have had a little more enthusiasm for the utter absurdity of this situation.
And call out the enablers who kept trying to keep everyone calm. But didn’t seem to really have a finger on the pulse the way we pay them to do.
Now we’ve got Russia in our nuclear secrets, and nuclear secrets in the bathroom. And “our betters” act like it’s rude to talk about it.
No. It’s embarrassing. But not to me.
WereBear
@TBone: Thank you <3
SInce the Slicker than Owl Shit works on his clients, we can see how many rich people turn to crime.
Generally, not that bright. Just rich enough to find servants. And, apparently, fear them.
Another Scott
ICYMI, Tender has thoughts on Syria, Ukraine, Russia, and Putin. Nobody knows how quickly the future will arrive, or what exactly it will look like, but dictatorships are brittle the people still have power.
Hang in there, everyone.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Quinerly
@Jackie:
So glad to see this finally getting some press and attention. I threw up a link a few days ago. Was glad to hear Maddow on it last night. I was afraid it had flown under the radar.
Quinerly
@UncleEbeneezer:
Very late to this thread. I have been planning a week plus long trip to Mexico City for awhile but can’t seem to get the nerve to actually do it. I really prefer to travel alone but not sure if I would feel comfortable on a Mexico City trip alone.
Will be very interested to hear about your week when you return. Suggestions and pointers. So glad I caught your comment in this thread.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Other than donate to the ACLU, I will have to think about how I can add friction in the real world
catclub
so you thinks sparks will fly between the nurses and the electricians?
The Sanity Inspector
As for Koreans being “ornery”, that almost does them justice. They were once known as “The Irish of Asia”, but they are simultaneously as courteous as the Japanese, and as pugnacious as the Irish.
WTFGhost
@Martin: Absolutely.
I saw a “get the F out” and part of me yearned to explain, that the phrase is crazy, because to me, it means nothing at all, it’s just an angry person… or it means (in my brain – I’m not saying this is ever anyone’s *intent*): “if you blow your brains out in the next five minutes, I don’t care.”
How do you explain that to a stranger who might know nothing about depression and doesn’t want a lesson from a stranger? And yet, geez, it hurts to see it sitting there.
And i don’t mean it hurts to see it, like it’s something *terrible*. It’s just because it’s a signs of frustrations no one can talk about, or work through, etc.. It’s like, everyone is walking around a dark alley, with knives out, sometimes pricking people because better that, than not having your knife at the ready, but each accidental knife stick is a reason to keep one’s knife out and at the ready, and only a fool would sheath their knife.