Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Democrats are back in array!

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

It looks like winning debates is a black job!

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Celebrate the fucking wins.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

“Joe Biden deserved better than he got from some folks in his own party.”

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

There is no right way to do the wrong thing.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

“woke” is the new caravan.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, it’s door #2)

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: President Biden in Indian Country

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: President Biden in Indian Country

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Biden creates Native American boarding school national monument to mark era of forced assimilation

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— Associated Press 🤖 (@asssociatedpress.bsky.social) December 9, 2024 at 3:11 PM

Joe Biden’s Irish(-American) — we have a bone-deep commitment to preserving memories, even the most painful ones:

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — President Joe Biden designated a national monument at a former Native American boarding school in Pennsylvania on Monday to honor the resilience of Indigenous tribes whose children were forced to attend the school and hundreds of similar abusive institutions.

The creation of the Carlisle Federal Indian Boarding School National Monument — announced during a tribal leaders summit at the White House — is intended to confront what Biden referred to as a “dark chapter” in the nation’s history.

“We’re not about erasing history. We’re about recognizing history — the good, the bad and the ugly,” Biden said. “I don’t want people forgetting 10, 20, 30, 50 years from now and pretend it didn’t happen.”

Thousands of Native children passed through the notorious Carlisle Indian Industrial School between 1879 and 1918, including Olympian Jim Thorpe. They came from dozens of tribes under forced assimilation policies that were meant to erase Native American traditions and “civilize” the children so they would better fit into white society.

It was the first school of its type and became a template for a network of government-backed Native American boarding schools that ultimately expanded to at least 37 states and territories.

“About 7,800 children from more than 140 tribes were sent to Carlisle — stolen from their families, their tribes and their homelands. It was wrong making the Carlisle Indian school a national model,” Biden told the White House summit…

During a dozen public listening sessions over the past several years hosted by the Interior Department, survivors of the schools recalled being beaten, forced to cut their hair and punished for using their native languages.

The forced assimilation policy officially ended with the enactment of the Indian Child Welfare Act in 1978. But the government never fully investigated the boarding school system until the Biden administration.

Biden in October apologized on behalf of the U.S. government for the schools and the policies that supported them…

Interior Secretary Deb Haaland, whose grandparents were taken to boarding schools against their families’ will, said no single action would adequately address the harms caused by the schools. But she said the administration’s efforts have made a difference and the new monument would allow the American people to learn more about the government’s harmful policies.

“This trauma is not new to Indigenous people, but it is new for many people in our nation,” Haaland said in a statement…

Important, and exciting:

At the 2024 White House Tribal Nations Summit today, Departments of the Interior, Education and Health and Human Services (HHS) released a 10-year National Plan on Native Language Revitalization, which outlines a comprehensive, government-wide strategy to support the revitalization, protection, preservation and reclamation of Native languages. The plan, a joint effort of the agencies, charts a path to help address the United States government’s role in the loss of Native languages across the continental United States, Alaska and Hawaiʻi…

“Indigenous languages are central to our cultures, our life ways, and who we are as people. They connect us to our ancestors, to our homelands, and to our place in the world,” said Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland. “This ambitious plan represents the Biden-Harris administration’s commitment to address the wrongs of the past and restore what has been taken from us.”

“I always say: multilingualism is a superpower—and that includes Native American languages. During my time as Secretary of Education, I’ve been fortunate to travel through Indian Country and learn beautiful words in Oneida, Dakota, and Nakota languages. One thing was crystal clear: when young people reclaim their native languages, they reconnect deeply with who they are and where they come from,” said Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona. “But Native peoples have suffered from shameful policies that aimed to eradicate these languages and cultures for too long. I am hopeful that this national plan is a start to the federal government’s remediation of its participation in those policies. And I am hopeful we can all choose to keep fighting for a future where Native communities have the tools and support to keep their languages alive and their cultures thriving.”

“We use language to write history, share knowledge, map the future, and pass down traditions,” said Secretary of Health and Human Services Xavier Becerra. “Investing in language revitalization strengthens communities and contributes to their resiliency. HHS is a proud and critical contributor to this coordinated effort and the benefits it will deliver.” …

Additionally, today the Interior Department is announcing a cooperative agreement with the National Fund for Excellence in American Indian Education. This partnership will provide $7.5 million in existing grant funding to BIE schools supporting the launch or expansion of immersion programs and create a network of educators and school leaders committed to Native language revitalization. This funding will help build a network of BIE schools committed to integrating Native language immersion and cultural education into their curricula, offering students the tools to connect with their language and heritage. Together with the National Plan for Native Language Revitalization, these efforts create a comprehensive strategy to protect, preserve and reclaim Indigenous languages across the United States…

Reader Interactions

151Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    We don’t erase history. We acknowledge it, we learn from it, and we remember so we never repeat it again.”

     

    Some of us do.

  2. 2.

    Betty Cracker

    Will be interesting to see how the Native vote shook out once we get reliable post-election data in a couple of months or so. Some early exit polls suggest it basically mirrored general results, but exits are especially unreliable with smaller population segments.

  3. 3.

    TBone

    Who is chopping onions in here, how’d all that dust get in my eyes?

    I fucking love Old Handsome Joe Biden so much.  It’s like we are family, that’s how much.

    Big. Big like sky.

  5. 5.

    WereBear

    @Betty Cracker: Also, we don’t know if they were micro-targeted the same way as other groups were.

    But it’s not like there isn’t plenty of betrayal feelings to go around. However, I think the silver lining is how fast the penny dropped.

    Don’t tell me the Democratic messaging didn’t work. It got out… but it wasn’t believed.

    We can build on that! Is every Democrat waiting for their own I told YOU SO moment?

    Do it NOW. Tell the world. They need to hear it.

  6. 6.

    WereBear

    We know about the Russian interference. Let’s make a great big noisy fuss. Without murdering anything but their reputation.

    Corporate media has lost half of their audience. The half who realized they have been played. They are looking for better sources. WE FINALLY HAVE STREET CRED.

    I think AOC was a bartender. Which is a great way to figure out people.

  7. 7.

    WereBear

    I think this is something our current Veep can do once she is freed of her official duties. Do that auntie thing she does so well, and talk to the American public like the unruly teens so many of them were.

    “Thank you for voting for me. If you did not, it was because of lies, here to talk about the lies…”

    We need a prosecutor more than ever. Will she be the leader in exile? Why all this silence while Morning Joe melts down?

    We have to have a simpler tier of access to our ideas. Bring back Schoolhouse Rock. That embeds info in heads.

    Heaven knows pop music is barely breathing under corporate hands.

  10. 10.

    lowtechcyclist

    I remember how the RWNJs described something Obama did as an “apology tour” and of course their point was what a bad thing that was. I’m sure they’ll be saying something similar about this.

    Funny, I was always told, growing up, that when you’d wronged someone, apologizing was the grown-up thing to do. And can anyone honestly say this wasn’t a great wrong committed by the U.S. of A. against Native Americans?

    It’s even in the Bible: “if, when you are bringing your gift to the altar, you remember that your brother has a grievance against you, leave your gift where it is before the altar. First go and make peace with your brother, and only then come back and offer your gift.” (Matt. 5:23-24)

  12. 12.

    Suzanne

    On the topic of Indian boarding schools….. the one in Phoenix has been turned into Steele Indian School Park. It operated until 1990 and was turned into a park about a decade later.

    It’s kind of part of my personal landscape….. I lived across the street from it for a couple of years starting in 2002. In fact, it was the first place I took Spawn the Elder for a stroller walk when he was about a week old. There was also a helicopter crash there a few years later…. I was working at an office about three blocks away at the time and I remember when it happened. Finally, it’s a site for a lot of events. I registered new voters there during a anti-SB1070 rally, when that was a thing.

  14. 14.

    satby

    @AL:  Joe Biden’s Irish(-American) — we have a bone-deep commitment to preserving memories, even the most painful ones

    We do, but we were also taught if you don’t remember it can happen again. And too many have forgotten the lesson.

  15. 15.

    SleepyMonster

    Open thread, so I’ma comment real quick for all the folks in the recent doom-scroll who were hand wringing and sniping at each other over being able or willing to do the big resistance things. Protest. Fight. Shield targets.

    There’s no conflict there. You need both types. There’s tip-of-the-spear people, and there’s shaft-of-the-spear people. There’s people that stand in the line and wave a sign or swing a pipe – depending on the severity of the moment – and there’s people that drive up to the edge of the protest and leave six cases of water bottles then turn around and go home.

    You don’t shame the latter unless you like being a spear with no handle. You dont *feel* shame for being the latter because that’s important and necessary work. If the lawyer you had on speed dial to get you out of jail is on the picket line beside you, that’s real bad.

    I am absolutely the latter. I do my nine to five, keep my head down, protect my family, and usually very quietly slip a nonsense amount of support to others that are in the line of fire.

    So don’t feel bad if you’re not the sharpest, pointiest, tippiest part of the resistance. There are other quieter places to stand.

  18. 18.

    WereBear

    @Suzanne: Which is why they can never admit they were wrong, and self-destruct in middle age. That codes Toxic Masculinity.

    And yes, I do believe there is Toxic Femininity. That’s the 53% of white women who voted MAGA.

  19. 19.

    Elizabelle

    I have appreciated AL spotlighting Biden Harris, since they seem to be MIA on corporate news sites.  Just vaporized.  Funny that.

    For weeks now, whenever I see the morning threads with them, it is like gazing on a loved one you know is going far away, out of your reach (not death).  There is a sadness, too.  Wondering if it’s like how people felt when their family and friends emigrated, back when chances were you would never cross that ocean again.

  20. 20.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    @Suzanne: “Never apologize, never explain—it’s a sign of weakness.”

    Are you saying that The Duke espoused toxic masculinity?  Fie

    ETA: I see NotMax got there before me.

  21. 21.

    Suzanne

    @WereBear: I believe there’s toxic femininity, too. Maladaptive behavior crosses every human boundary. But I don’t think toxic femininity is as consequential to our public/political life at the moment.

  22. 22.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne:

    Apologizing is a sign of weakness to lots of men, and is coded as feminine.

    I know that that is so, but it still strikes me as strange. To apologize is to acknowledge the truth about what you’ve done and who you’ve been.  To refuse to acknowledge the truth about yourself doesn’t make you stronger, it makes you more brittle.

    In the end, we all have to live with ourselves, and if we have to wall off parts of ourselves from ourselves, that’s gonna be uncomfortable at the very least.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    @Suzanne:

    They have a feudal code. It’s manly to apologize to your lord. That’s why so many grovel to Trump without shame. It’s only unmanly to apologize to people of a lower status, like your serf or your wench.

  30. 30.

    Betty Cracker

    Notable American poet Nikki Giovanni has died. She was one of a kind — a unique voice and an unforgettable presence.

    I got to meet her ages ago when I was a student working for the college performing arts center and she was a speaker. You know the expression about someone “lighting up a room”? Well, she DID.

  34. 34.

    Suzanne

    O/T, but Rachel Bitecofer is on X complaining about the quantity of disabled-accessible parking spaces at Target. Wants a politician to make reducing the quantity part of their platform. That infuriates me.

    If you don’t know, the quantity, type, and dimensions of accessible parking spaces is determined by the ADA.

  36. 36.

    Ohio Mom

    In the late 1960s, as a young teenager, one of my babysitting gigs was with a family that had adopted a Native American brother and sister. As I recall, it was seen as that era’s progressive good deed, to give “orphaned” Indian children good homes.

    They were toddlers and looking back, they were very passive and quiet for their age. It was a short-term gig, I was a substitute for their regular sitter. They were a nice couple.

    I don’t know what point am trying to make, maybe it’s an illustration of “When you know better, do better” What we didn’t know!

  37. 37.

    Baud

    @Suzanne:

    I’m trying to think of a lower priority thing to complain about and I can’t.

    (Putting aside the fact that we shouldn’t do it.)

  38. 38.

    Ohio Mom

    @Quinerly: When I saw that photo yesterday, I recognized the look on Dr. Jill’s face as the “suffering fools” expression. Which, by definition, fools don’t recognize

    ETA: it’s the raised eyebrows and furrowed forehead. It screams, “Really? You don’t say!”

  39. 39.

    TBone

    @NotMax: I knew a fully grown woman who would apologize for everything, all the time, before she spoke, after she spoke, and usually for things that had nothing to do with her.  It was so exhausting.  How sorry can one sorry ass be?  I don’t know who or how she got that broken, but she was over six feet tall and built like an Amazon and it was so incongruous that I usually just laughed but ended up hauling off on her one too many times over that ridiculousness.

    Obligatory

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3603SEqoEA

  40. 40.

    Quinerly

    If ever in Gallup, NM, I highly suggest the sweet, little Code Talkers Museum in the Cultural Center. It’s right there on Rt 66. I really like Gallup. Unfortunately, it gets a bad rap. The flea market on Saturdays is a real hoot. I always check out a food booth there called “The Mutton Shack” plus great fry bread and a kneel down bread. It’s called that for a reason. Here’s a link. https://www.santafenewmexican.com/pasatiempo/comidas-y-mas-kneel-down-bread-recipe/article_32562c74-385e-11ee-a720-dbdff5e25ab9.html

    Two great restaurants in Gallup….Earl’s….mostly all Navajo. Been there forever. Vendors set up in the parking lot and also walk around inside selling their work. I always eat at the counter where locals who aren’t buying sit. Jerry’s is actually better food. Everyone should experience Earl’s at least once, though.

    If in Gallup, I suggest staying in Window Rock, AZ. There are 2 Navajo owned motels there. I always stay at the very clean and basic Quality Inn. Haven’t been in a couple of years but the room used to include a very nice, full hot breakfast. I was there on my third time in 3/2020 after spending 2 weeks in Farmington, NM, on the Rez prowling around, and at Canyon de Chelly. Everyone around me was sick (my guide ended up dying from Covid late April) and I’ll never understand how I didn’t end up with Covid.

    Highly suggest walking around Window Rock where the park is (and where WR is). There is a gorgeous, huge, bronze statue as a memorial to the Code Talkers. Across from the park is the government seat/capital for the Navajo Nation. If you have time, don’t be shy and go in. The times I have been inside, everyone has been friendly.

    Drive a little out from Window Rock (Ft Defiance area) Indian Rt 12 and spend an hr walking around the Navajo Veterans Cemetery. Take a box of Kleenex.

  41. 41.

    Suzanne

    @Baud: I’m sure she’s whining in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek way. But for fuck’s sake, if walking by a few parking spaces is difficult for you, then talk to your doctor and get a placard to actually use those spaces. Or shut the fuck up. Always an option.

  42. 42.

    Quinerly

    @Ohio Mom:

    The online comments from the Trumpists are so ridiculous. Those fools have convinced themselves she’s ready to dump Joe for Trump.

  44. 44.

    jonas

    @Betty Cracker: This Brookings Institute analysis suggests the native vote went something like 60-40 Harris-Trump. So a solid Democratic majority, but you’d think it would be a lot bigger given how the Biden administration has prioritized tribal issues. But a lot of tribes and workers are still heavily invested in the oil and gas industry (as well as gaming), so that probably pushes a number of them into the R camp despite the fact that Trump will probably sign an executive order *commemorating* the Indian boarding schools and the great job they did.

  45. 45.

    H.E.Wolf

    @SleepyMonster: ​
     Thank you for the reminder and the metaphor! You have inspired me to be a good handle. :-) And you’ve inspired me to think metaphorically.

    A good toolbox is stocked with many different items. Sandpaper and hex nuts are just as vital as hammers and screwdrivers. And we can choose how to use ourselves: to rip down, or to build up.

    I spent part of one summer scavenging dropped washers off of floors and sidewalks, to help a colleague who’d been assigned a large repair project and virtually no supplies.

    Something tiny and insignificant-looking turned out to be the most important part of the project… and was available everywhere, when I started to notice.

    It’s great to be a washer. Or a finder of washers. We make the repairs a reality!

  47. 47.

    Soprano2

    @TBone: We’ve tried to break our front desk person from apologizing all the time. I think some women develop that habit without even thinking about it, as if they should apologize for even existing

    I checked the WaPo web site for a story about this. It’s way down the front page as a headline about Biden commemorating an Indian boarding school. There isn’t even a picture. The top stories are about the arrest of the United Health shooter, and a story about how Joni Ernst is now more inclined toward Pete Hegseth. I wonder what they said to her, because he’s a drunken assaulter of women.

  48. 48.

    TBone

    Adam Kinzinger, who was one of only two Republicans on the Jan. 6 committee, wrote a scathing Substack post in which he threw down with El Cheato’s threat to imprison him and the rest of the committee members.

    Adam Kinzinger Responds To Trump Threats: ‘Bring It On!’

    “I’m not intimidated by a man whose actions on January 6th showed a cowardly disregard for democracy and the rule of law,” he wrote.

    The head of today’s pointy spear!

  50. 50.

    jonas

    @Suzanne: There were some sweet new parking spots right near the building where I work and if I was lucky I could snag one of them and avoid walking from the lot farther out where I’d usually have to park. Over the summer, though, I think they counted up all the parking spaces around the campus and realized they were short on handicapped spots (as you note, there’s an ADA-mandated ratio) and so converted the new spots to handicapped. *Sad trombone*. So I’m back to hoofin’ it from the regular employee lot, but wev. I can use the exercise.

  51. 51.

    Betty

    I read that Biden has disappeared from the public scene. Once again, he is Presidenting in a very positive way that the MSM doesn’t deem worthy of covering. Grrr! You go, Joe!

  53. 53.

    Soprano2

    @jonas: At the local state university, they changed almost all the parking spots by the bookstore to handicapped parking for some reason. It’s annoying, because when I have to go there I want to run in and out, and it’s hard to find a parking space there. I don’t know why they put so many of them in one place. I wouldn’t think that would be convenient for people. ETA – I got the doctor to give hubby a handicapped placard so that I can park close when we go to the doctor. I don’t use it that often, but I’m glad I have it because he walks slowly so it’s good to be able to be closer.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    @Suzanne

    Speed bumps in the local Target parking lot (one like every 75 feet) are so high I’m surprised they’re not snow-capped.
    ;)

  56. 56.

    Soprano2

    @Betty: He’s only “disappeared” because they put stories about what he’s doing way down the page and inside the paper!

  58. 58.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: They put them in one place for a lot of reasons. First of all, they’re required by the ADA to be close to the primary entrance. They’re also required to be on level ground. When they’re cohorted together, they can usually share the required aisle space, which ends up being more efficient.

    Also, depending on the overall quantity of spaces, there can be van spaces required, which are larger.

    Should I do a guest post on the design requirements of the ADA?

  59. 59.

    moonbat

    Thank you, AL, for this post. I’m going to miss Handsome Joe so much. A thoroughly decent and dedicated man.

  60. 60.

    Quinerly

    I will be working my way north after I leave Hereford, AZ and later Tucson. Christmas Eve and Christmas Day in Winslow have become a little tradition for me the last 3 years. After Christmas, I may head west to Cameron Trading Post, Motel, and Restaurant. It’s near the east entrance/Desert Watch Tower less traveled entrance to the Grand Canyon. I spent New Year’s last year in Cameron. Ended up having dinner with a Hopi gentleman who now works at the trading post. He is a retired chiropractor and I believe he mentioned he was the very first NA chiropractor in the country. He is in his 70’s….had a lot of “Covid Times” stories. We must never forget how hard our NAs….the tribes and pueblos were hit. Households with three and four generations dead now.

    Cameron is a historic trading post. Every one employed at the motel, restaurant, and trading post/galleries is Navajo and Hopi. Stayed there a half dozen of times and actually see a lot of the same employees on each visit. The restaurant has homestyle cooking all done by Navajo and Hopi. If you like liver and onions…..the best anywhere. The grounds and views are gorgeous. Dog friendly. They great JoJo las Orejas like The Princeling he is. Beautiful short drive to that Watch Tower entrance to the Grand Canyon.

    Check it out if near the Grand Canyon. You will be hooked.

  61. 61.

    TBone

    GMA had a spot today featuring Longwood Gardens’ fabulous annual Christmas displays and I think I might die of homesick.

  62. 62.

    NotMax

    @Soprano2

    Hegseth had better be walking on eggshells (he can afford the eggs). After all, Ernst is a -professional when it comes to castration
    //

  64. 64.

    RevRick

    @Baud:

    @lowtechcyclist:

    @Suzanne:

    @satby:

    Last August, a delegation of United Church of Christ clergy and laypeople visited the site of the Carlisle Indian School, which is on the grounds of the Carlisle Barracks. We had to get clearance from the Army to visit, and when I declared the purpose of my visit, the Sargeant at the gate was none too happy. Several of the buildings have been torn down, but the main building still stands. The visit was inspired by a presentation by Jim Bear Logan to UCC clergy, who related how his grandfather, who had been forced to attend the Carlisle school, had come back a broken man. His great grandfather had appeared in many silent films as the Indian “savage” preying on innocent white people. (What an inversion of reality we tell ourselves of the victim made into the perpetrator). He also told us about his grandmother, who had been forced to attend a school in Wisconsin, and how, when they visited that site, his usually garrulous grandmother was rendered mute.
    If you want to visit the Carlisle school, you will learn a lot more visiting the Cumberland County Historical Museum, seeing their display and purchasing a guidebook, because the Army will not help at all.

  68. 68.

    RevRick

    @WereBear: Those Southern Evangelicals vigorously defended slavery, advocated for secession and Civil War, and supported Jim Crow and its violence. Google “Waco lynching “ for example, and that mob you see standing around the lynched body are all “good” Evangelicals.

  69. 69.

    TBone

    @RevRick: we have stolen a lot of valor from the indigenous here in PA.  My childhood was filled with stolen indigenous language that was originally meant as a tribute but was not honored.  My elementary school was named Aronimink. The summer camp where both grandparents tutored wealthy boys was named Camp Susquehannock.  My grandma made me learn to spell Schuylkill but not Delaware.  I live on the shores of the Susquehanna River.

    Those are just off the top of my head …

    Thank you for the Cumberland rec.

    The local legend dates to the Susquehannocks, a Native American people who inhabited the area for hundreds of years before Europeans arrived
    Images of the hair-covered creatures adorned the Susquehannocks’ war shields. The ape-like animals are described as being very slender, four- to five-feet tall, and reddish-brown in hue.

    Making bank:

    https://www.pennlive.com/uniquelypa/2023/10/the-albatwitch-a-creepy-creature-rooted-in-folklore-becomes-big-business-for-pa-town.html

  72. 72.

    Starfish (she/her)

    @TBone: I don’t think keeping the original names of places as the original names that the native people gave them is “stolen valor.”

    “Stolen valor” has to do with pretending your military service was greater than it was.

    I think a disproportionate number of native people serve in the military. They serve at five times the rate of everyone else.

  75. 75.

    TBone

    BTW, my rumpy neighbors across the street put out a big, arrowhead-shaped stone marker next to their driveway with feathers inscribed on it as well as their own German last name made into an indigenous nonsense word.  Also have such a sign over their backyard barn, using that “name” and calling said barn a “lodge.”

    Maybe another reason why I take offense and say “stolen valor.”

  77. 77.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Elizabelle: ​
      We have rage bait commenters insisting that Biden has basically abdicated his role a president. It’s good to see concrete evidence to the contrary.

  80. 80.

    TBone

    Remembering an old favorite meme of an oil painting depicting an indigenous warrior dropping out of a tree perch, hatchet raised, on to a Red Coat on horseback.

  81. 81.

    Quinerly

    I’m huge fan of Northern AZ (north of I 40)  Indian Country. There are at least two detailed driving guides on these areas. Since 2017, I have basically driven every road mentioned in these guides.

    Highly recommend “driving around and looking at things” on Hopi and Navajo Lands north of Cameron, AZ. 89  is a gorgeous stretch of highway to Page. 89 A and then 67 take you to the North Rim. Tuba City has a lot of Hopi history. Lee’s Ferry and Marble Canyon areas are in a way just as beautiful as the Grand Canyon (and technically the start of the Grand Canyon). Walk the Navajo Bridge across the Colorado River. Lots of history and a nice Visitor’s Center.

    I love driving the desolate 264 across Hopi Lands. You can get loads of info and great fry bread at the small “Hopi Cultural Center.” I found my Hopi hiking guide there on a fluke. Visit the ancient Hopi villages on Second Mesa….Old Oraibi, Shongopovi, Polacca. TAKE NO PICTURES. Poke around Keams Canyon.

    Have a great day, BJers. JoJo and I are off to breakfast at The Country House and a hike. I really am digging the Hereford/Sierra Vista area of Arizona. A much better experience than when we stayed a week in Bisbee in February. Looks to be a nice HH with cheap eats at this Italian joint down the road. Going to check that out later. Gotta feed “The Q.”

    (And, yes, my super power is memorizing detailed maps. Once I look at one it’s stuck in my brain)

  83. 83.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Quinerly: Saw your comment in the doom thread about Mexico City. I encourage you to go, it’s a fascinating, dynamic city. Obviously as a dude my impressions are different, but I was never in any areas that felt risky. I’m sure there are, but use your head and your eyes.

  84. 84.

    dww44

    @WereBear: So agree with this.  Our messaging doesn’t break through and, indeed, gets turned back against us. Last evening  at a tech rehearsal for our Nutcracker ballet and seated with a couple friends and fellow board members, there was discussion about replacing home printers and the like.  I mentioned I would be upgrading by January 20.  They looked perplexed.  I explained about Trump’s tariffs.  They dismissed it as not consequential.  When I mentioned how Trump lied all during his MTP interview they pushed back loudly with “All politicians lie.”  I replied not like Donald Trump. They were dismissive and a bit defensive.

    They do not pay attention and when they do they only watch and listen to conservative media.  We are not competing effectively in the media. Not in the red and purple areas I live. These are not bad people but they do vote Republican because they’ve always voted Republican.

  86. 86.

    Ohio Mom

    @TBone: We saw a summer light display at Longworth Gardens, years ago. We went off the shortest route home to see it.

    It was marvelous. As they say, highly reccomend.

  89. 89.

    Quiltingfool

    @Suzanne: So I guess Rachel B. is irritated that she might have to walk a bit further to shop at Target?  That’s just lazy.

    After my knee replacement, once I could get out and about, I was okay with being a bit further away from the store (than the handicapped parking).  You are supposed to walk!  Might have taken me a bit longer, with my “fashionable” walker, but not a big deal, I had time.   Also, I never used the electric shopping carts, I figured there were folks who needed it more than me.

  92. 92.

    Quinerly

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Thanks!

    I need to do my research. I also need for JoJo las Orejas to stay home.

    Right now, I’m looking for someone to come to Santa Fe to stay with him 2 weeks in February. I think either my young airline pilot friend from Seattle will do it or an old hippie buddy from St. Louis if I pay to bring him out on the train. I have had this winter Death Valley and Nevada drive about planned for over a year. Was going to take JoJo since Winter but the accommodations are hanging me up. JoJo does not camp well. It was a struggle for 6 weeks living out of a tent and the van when we trekked across Southern CO and some in Utah in Fall 2021. My Cattledog mix is a homebody and couch potato.

    Old hippie buddy wants to get back to Mexico City after 40-50 years. I think I could travel with him. So he is a candidate for that. He’s broke, though. Just gotta figure out the JoJo situation.

  93. 93.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Suzanne:

    But for fuck’s sake, if walking by a few parking spaces is difficult for you, then talk to your doctor and get a placard to actually use those spaces. Or shut the fuck up. Always an option.

    Seconded.  I’m glad I don’t need those spaces, and I’m glad they’re there for the people who do. Walking those few extra steps takes what, a few seconds? The hardship!

  95. 95.

    eclare

    @Soprano2:

    One of my best girlfriends apologizes for everything.  When we went on vacation a few years ago I finally had it and gave her an earful about how a traffic jam was not her fault, so STFU about apologizing.  It helped for a few days.

    I always got a really bad vibe from her mother, I wonder if that’s where it started.

  96. 96.

    Josie

    @lowtechcyclist: ​
     Many years ago, my late husband asked me to park on the outer edge of large parking lots to avoid getting dings on the car. He was obsessed with keeping his cars in perfect condition. It’s a habit for me and I think it’s a healthy one, giving me a few extra steps every time I go shopping. We all could benefit from moving our bodies more and being grateful that we are able to do so.

  100. 100.

    Suzanne

    @Quiltingfool: Yes, we are supposed to walk!

    We have designed walking out of too much of life, IMO. I think it is bad for people.

    I went with SuzMom to the symphony on Saturday for a holiday performance. The symphony hall is in downtown, and so of course there are offices, schools, public services, stores, etc etc etc, in the same area. So traffic is always bad when there’s performances, because there’s a big influx of people all in a short window of time. I know this, and leave extra time to get there and park. So, when we were leaving and had about a 20-minute wait for the elevator (SuzMom can’t take the stairs)….. tons of people were grumbling about how long it took to park. People were legit saying that “they” need to remove bus and bike lanes “because most people drive to the symphony”. Right, like downtown exists only for Saturday nights and your convenience is the paramount concern. Everyone else’s needs don’t matter.

    Car-only culture makes me crazy.

  102. 102.

    NotMax

    @Josie

    For months after getting new vehicle I parked in the hinterlands of the lots.

    At Costco (gigundo parking lot) no cars or trucks around for many, many spaces. Felt as if I’d have to flag down a sherpa to guide me on the trek to the store.

    Upon returning, there was a car parked on either side of mine, and one in front. Still scads of empty spaces beyond them.

  103. 103.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Paint swatch for a generation:

    https://flic.kr/p/2mxMBQw

    And there’s no indication it or any kind of other sterile approach to renovations is going out of style based on the flippers here: it’s all still either Neo-Doctors Office or Faux, Urban Modern Farmhouse.

    Or if it’s not a scrape and flip as we put it “They Property Brothered The Shit Outta That Place.”

    The HGTV-ization of ‘Murka continues apace.

  105. 105.

    Belafon

    Thinking about this:

    They came from dozens of tribes under forced assimilation policies that were meant to erase Native American traditions and “civilize” the children so they would better fit into white society.

    and the argument that a Republican lawyer made at the Supreme Court case challenging Tennessee’s ban on HRT for minors that people “don’t have a right to not conform.” On the bright side, we’ve at least got one party that believes you should be allowed to be who you are. The bad thing is they’re about to not be in power.

  106. 106.

    catclub

    Open thread, so I will tell about the extremely long read I just had.
    I subscribe to an email newsletter called “Bits about Money”
    and the most recent one came today ‘Debanking and Debunking’
    It is about a) how banks can silently decide to cancel a customer,
    and b) that can happen to crypto businesses and c) what crypto wants now
    (from the Trump crypto-friendly admin)

    Also different insights/takes on Sam Friedman-Bank and the Silvergate bank failure
    that I knew little about.

    It takes a long time to get to what crypto wants, which I appreciated because there are many subtleties to explain about banking regulation ( explicit and implicit).

    https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/

  107. 107.

    Suzanne

    @NotMax: Fun fact about Costco: they have a design standard for larger parking spaces and more space in between the spaces, because so many people drive big vehicles there, and they have big shopping carts that get pushed in between the cars.

  109. 109.

    Quinerly

    @frosty:

    We got to connect in person sometime!

    When in Sierra Vista/Hereford, AZ eat at ‘The Country House.” What a menu! Lots of retired folks. Army base close by. Great prices.

    I am on my second breakfast here. The Country Fried Steak with white gravy, poached eggs, potatoes was excellent. Waiting on this breakfast Chimichanga. Scrambled eggs with cheese and chorizo, folded in a flour tortilla, deep fried, and smothered in green chile and white gravy.

    Life be good. Food and strangers are my woo woo self help.

    Don’t anyone tell Omnes that I am so inspired that I might just pen a poem about these breakfasts. And, I don’t even write poetry.

  112. 112.

    TBone

    @Omnes Omnibus: that’s what I was meaning to say but that term escaped my morning brain fog, thank you.  I did not intend to insult anyone by using stolen valor instead.

  113. 113.

    Lapassionara

    @Suzanne: I’m with you on this. I hate seeing acres of asphalt filled with empty parking spaces, all for the busy shopping season between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Such a waste.

  114. 114.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: I guess they did it because that parking lot is relatively close to several buildings. It was strange, one year there were only two handicapped spaces in that lot, then the next year it was around ten or more.

  115. 115.

    NotMax

    @Suzanne

    Yes, the Costco lot is (spacewise) delightful.

    Whereas some at the other markets seem to have been designed for Alpine Sunbeams and Chevy Sparks.

  116. 116.

    H.E.Wolf

    @NotMax: ​
     I once spent the night at a small (ish) local airport. I found a nice spot (good visibility, but quiet because the airport was otherwise virtually empty) and settled in to sleep on the floor at about 1 AM.

    Woke up an hour or two later, and discovered a much younger sleeper, opposite gender, fast asleep on the floor about 6 feet away, lined up in the same orientation as I was.

    Woke up an hour after that, and discovered that there was now another young sleeper, about 6 feet away on my other side.

    Human version of an orca pod? Was I giving off “Safe Space Here” vibes? No idea. I just enjoyed the tableau, and sneaked off to my flight without waking them.

  117. 117.

    Quinerly

    @frosty:

    Oh…there’s a nice RV park on premises at Cameron Trading Post. Actually, a lot of the folks who work at Cameron live there. The business has housing provided for many of their Navajo and Hopi employees.

  119. 119.

    TBone

    @Ohio Mom:

    Longwood Gardens is a place of wonder and beauty all year (they actually made a hole in a roof one year to let a once in a lifetime blooming flower grow to its natural height!).  But at Christmas time, they really go above and beyond.  It has become expensive to visit in the past decade (get tix in advance) but is worth every penny IMO.  Glad you got to see it!

  121. 121.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Then, there’s Trader Joe’s:

    https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-am-a-trader-joes-parking-lot-and-i-am-here-to-destroy-you

    https://www.reddit.com/r/starterpacks/comments/z0moor/trader_joes_parking_lot_starter_pack/

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/caseyrackham/trader-joes-parking-lots

    https://www.denverpost.com/2024/05/09/worst-parking-lots-denver-trader-joes-king-soopers-costco/

    Everybody says everything on the internet is forever but alas, that’s not true.  Probably 20 years ago I read probably the best rant ever about Trader Joe’s (not actually the parking lot), mainly it’s clientele.  Whatever platform/site it was on lasted about ten years and then gone.  I can’t find the original link either to see if the Wayback Machine grabbed it.

    The two here in core Denver print money and people drive to them regardless of where they live.

  123. 123.

    Soprano2

    @dww44:   When I mentioned how Trump lied all during his MTP interview they pushed back loudly with “All politicians lie.”

    When a MAGA accuses me of lying, I say “I thought lying didn’t matter anymore, because TCFG lies all the time and you don’t care about it”. They don’t like it when you do that. They definitely know he’s lying, they just don’t care because he says things they agree with.

  124. 124.

    Suzanne

    @NotMax: Most municipalities have a minimum parking space size (usually 18’ x 9’) and a minimum aisle width. Most property owners don’t want to exceed it, because then it means they can fit fewer parking spots. Costco is an exception.

    Fun fact: one municipality I worked in (Queen Creek, AZ) has a minimum parking space size of 20’ x 10’, because they say so many people drive pickup trucks there.

  125. 125.

    Soprano2

    @eclare: Probably, it seems to me that it’s a defensive behavior that was developed in childhood. Women have a tendency to do it when they don’t need to.

  129. 129.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: Women are socialized to care and service, and thus we get acculturated to apologize when something displeases someone. Even if it isn’t our fault. It’s a way of performing gender.

    “I’m sorry to trouble you….”

  130. 130.

    Quinerly

    @NotMax:

    I guess this fits here for a couple of reasons. I couldn’t decide what color to paint my kitchen.

    I went with “Navajo White” like the living room.

  131. 131.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Quinerly:

    I’ve enjoyed your comments on this trip, and that’s not just about the Hamms at the dive bar.  Now I wanna put the rooftop tent on the Tacoma and hit the road.

  132. 132.

    TBone

    @H.E.Wolf: once when hubby and I were having a middle of the night spat at a beach rental, he went outside to his truck to get away from my negging.  He got into his truck, which he’d left unlocked! and sat for a few minutes before he smelled the strong, mixed scent of alcohol and body odor.  He discovered that a young man was using the back seat as a bed.  Good thing that young man was too drunk to rob/kill him and steal the truck (he’d left his wallet in the truck console too). Young man sobered right up when they both realized they were stuck inside together in the dark!

    My negging continued for two days after that!

  133. 133.

    Jackie

    @NotMax: I have a compact SUV and it never fails; when I return to my car, huge trucks or giant SUVs are invariably parked on either side – causing me to inch back blindly several feet before I can check for oncoming pedestrians or vehicles.

  134. 134.

    Quinerly

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    We need to talk Taco set ups.

    The 2019 AWD Sienna mini van just doesn’t work for my lifestyle. I bought it in 2/2021 to out fit for that 4 month (that turned into 3 month trip because I bought a house and had to get back to St. Louis to ready my house for sale and to move). It’s  too low to the ground. I was going to have it lifted in Prescott but that doesn’t solve my other issues with owning a mini van. I did the very minimal in it for camping. The seats go back in….all of that.

    I really need an AWD truck with a basic topper. A TACO!!! I need to also be able to  haul around all this dead brush/tumbleweeds…get it off my acreage because of pack rats and fire hazard come Spring.

    I am Flated topper curious. The air topper.

    https://flated.com/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA6t-6BhA3EiwAltRFGHfYAVYueiYPjbSxXmehb23BmpuPE9s6sOjtZ-oM25hbjK4SaGS5BxoCTcMQAvD_BwE

  135. 135.

    Suzanne

    @Quinerly: As part of my job, I often work with interior designers. I have said that they have the hardest job on the design team, because they have to navigate so many people’s opinions about the dumbest stuff.

    I have declared that I will never again have any discussion with a client about paint colors. It’s terrible. It’s painful.

    The vast majority of my own home is SWISS COFFEE.

    ETA: Current trend seems to be getting away from gray and back to beige.

  138. 138.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Omnes Omnibus: This is what drives me nuts.  Obviously I can’t prove it, but I strongly believe that if people on our side took the messaging approach that AL does, the Democratic Party brand would be in a much better place.  But her approach of celebrating Dems (even here) is drowned-out by five times as many posts/comments/shares bashing Dems.  Naturally the latter are what go viral, trend and shape our information sphere (putting aside the Media, Republicans etc.).  We had a brief period during Kamala’s campaign where everyone seemed to really lean into positivity about Dems and especially her.  AL shows us all how it’s done, every day.  We all did it for 90 days.  It’s not that complicated and not even that hard.  It’s frustrating that we can’t collectively make that the damn norm.

  139. 139.

    Quinerly

    @Suzanne:

    I opted out on that Benjamin Moore gray everyone was going with a few years ago.

    It’s a long story but I got stuck having to “rebuild” my family’s beach place on the Southern Outer Banks after Hurricane Florence. Got into a huge fight with the young HOA president who got a kickback from ServPro for tearing up the homes when there was no damage.

    We all settled out of court. I sold the place in 2021.

    Like I said…long story short… everyone in the very small HOA community did their places in some variation of those Benjamin Moore grays. I said no to the gray and went with a variation of white….like my mother had had in the place since 1977. New buyers loved it because it was “different.”

    I kid you not.

  140. 140.

    Geminid

    @H.E.Wolf: We all need more washers and in a time of adversity, we also need more people like Interior Secretary Deb Haaland. She has contended with and overcome adversity in her own life.

    Ms. Haaland just celebrated a birthday. She was born in Winslow, Arizona on December 2, 1960 to Mary Toya, an enrolled member of Laguna Pueblo. Mary Toya served in the Navy and then worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

    Haaland’s father, John “Dutch” Haaland retired as a Marine Corps Captain (being a Norwegian American from Minnesota, Haaland was naturally nicknamed Dutch by his fellow officers). Captain Haaland saw his share of adversity in Vietnam where he wan a Silver Star. He’s buried at Arlington National Cemetery, across the Potomac River from where his daughter now works.

    Growing up, Deb Haaland attended 13 different schools before graduating from Albuquerque’s Highland High School in 1978. She found work as a baker, but the following years were shadowed by alcoholism that resulted in two arrests for DUI.

    Haaland overcame this difficult challege, and at age 28 she enrolled at the University of New Mexico in 1978. Haaland graduated in June of 1994, and gave birth to her daughter Tomàh four days later.

    Haaland was to struggle as a single mother, and at times slept on friends’ couches as she tried to make a go of a small salsa-making business while raising a young daughter. Haaland eventually returned to the University of New Mexico and graduated from its law school in 2006.

    Then Deb Haaland failed the bar exam by a narrow margin.

    Per Wikipedia:

      …she went to work as a counselor for adults with developmental disabilities, aand then was hired as a tribal administrator and casino manager for San Felipe Pueblo. Later, Haaland became the first woman director on the board of the Laguna Development Corporation…and successfully advocated for Earth-friendly business practices

    Deb Haaland also became involved in politics. In 2012, she was Barack Obama’s New Mexico vote director for Native Americans. Two years later she ran for Lt. Governor on a ticket headed by Attorney General Gary Long, who was the candidate for Governor.

    That was rough November for New Mexico Democrats. Republican Susanne Martinez won the Governor race easily, and Democrats lost a lot of tough races elswhere in the state. It was a 21st century low point for Democrats in the Land of Enchantment.

    Then Deb Haaland stepped back up and in 2015 she began a two-year term as the Democratic Party’s state chairman. Haaland helped the party regain control of the state’s House of Representatives and the office of Secretary of State. In 2018, the year after Haaland’s tenure ended, Michelle Lujan Grisham was elected Governor and Xochitl Torres Small reclaimed New Mexico’s 2nd CD for the Democratic Party.

     …Haaland is credited with rebuilding the state party after after large defeats for Democrats in 2014….She raised enough money during two years as chair to pay off seven years of debt incurred under previous chairs.

    Haaland was also elected to Congress in 2018, succeeding Governor Lujan Grisham in the state’s 1st CD.

    That’s when I first learned about her. I’ll always remember a picture of Deb Haaland on her first day in Congress. She was on the House floor wearing Native dress and moccasins, and hugging Kansas Representative and Ho-Chunk Native Sharice Davids.

  141. 141.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @dww44:

    When I mentioned how Trump lied all during his MTP interview they pushed back loudly with “All politicians lie.”

    That’s when I put on my Mom hat and say, “I’m not talking about all politicians. I’m talking about Trump.”

  143. 143.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid:

    San Felipe Pueblo gets over looked. I like to stop in there on drives back from Albuquerque. They have a nice little restaurant there at the gas station and casino. Pueblo gas is always cheaper. Beautiful Black Mesa area. Very under rated artists on that pueblo, too. A few years back I bought a beautiful picture that is hard to describe (done like a shadow box) from a local artist. With this kitchen re do, I found a place to hang it in the kitchen. It never fit in my St. Louis 1880’s Victorian. I think it’s glad to be back in The Land of Enchantment.😎

    Always nice to read your comments.

  144. 144.

    dww44

    @Soprano2: That’s a good response.  I will add to my list and hopefully will remember the next time this issue arises.  In the case of these friends, it is more tribalism than anything, with some unacknowledged racism and misogyny thrown in.  I’m surrounded by so many of these types, relatives and friends, that I’ve been reluctant to speak up.  They know what they’ve condoned and deep down they know he’s bad but they simply cannot admit it to themselves or others. They all had the same sort of civics education I had.

  145. 145.

    There go two miscreants

    @catclub: 
    I also get Bits About Money, and it is interesting, but wow, is he ever so much in love with his own prose! Just way too long-winded.

  146. 146.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Quinerly:

    We have a Tepui rooftop tent mounted pretty much like what you see on this Rivian:

    https://www.rivianownersforum.com/threads/thule-tepui-explorer-kukenam-3-person-roof-top-tent-haze-gray.6360/

    Unfolded it looks like this:

    https://flic.kr/p/2qz2XZX

    Setting it low means we don’t deal with reduced gas mileage, cross-wind, etc.  When we were restoring our 1905 garage, I put a couple of sister joists on so I could mount a small winch on the ceiling to pull it off the truck for winter storage.

  148. 148.

    BillD

    Didn’t know until I read a recent Jim Thorpe bio that the Carlisle Indian school had a football team that played in the top tier of collegiate football. They played and often beat then powerhouses like Harvard and Army and traveled the country for games. Legendary coach Pop Warner had two stints leading the team. Thorpe, of course, was the star for his time there.

  149. 149.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:

    Those aren’t men. They are males. There is a difference.

    But you aren’t wrong in any way, shape or form. Not all of us think like that, to me and my experience it is males than never learned to respect others. In many countries, including this one, many boys were given a lot of crap for apologizing for anything, right, wrong or indifferent. I wasn’t and learned early on that if there is a reason for an apology, you do it. No questions, no bullshit, no stammering around. You apologize. Life works a hell of a lot better being responsible for your actions and words. Especially the ones that require an apology.

  150. 150.

    moonbat

    @Quinerly: I cut and pasted all of these posts. I have longed for a trip to Navajo land for a long time to see all the sacred rock formations, and you just gave me a pretty cool road map of stops along the way! Thank you.

  151. 151.

    Ruckus

    @H.E.Wolf:

    I used to travel 8 months a year for work and almost all of it was by air. I’d say better than 98% and to almost every state. There was one time a flight was canceled in Atlanta rather late in the evening and I took up their offer of a hotel as it was the last flight to the destination city that day. Atlanta airport is on the east side of Atlanta. The hotel was on the west side. It took about 2 hours to gather all the travelers and find out who wanted a hotel. Then load the bus, drive to the hotel, give us our key and tell us that we’d be picked up at 5 am for the drive back. I got about 2 hrs sleep. I never accepted their offer the next 2 times it happened. I slept on the floor of the terminal and got 6-7 hrs sleep. And the floor was more comfortable! Oh and BTW if you do not know, Atlanta is NOT a small airport. The next time the terminal was lined up with people sleeping under the window that looks out at the parked planes. Also had time to actually eat in the morning, and the food was good.

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