Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Motown is Joe-Town!

Books are my comfort food!

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, it’s door #2)

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Come on, man.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

I was confident that someone would point it out and thought why not me.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Let’s show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

President Biden is doing good where he can, and getting it done.

You are here: Home / Medium Cool / Medium Cool – Gender!

Medium Cool – Gender!

by | 156 Comments

This post is in: , ,

Medium Cool is a weekly series related to popular culture, mostly film, TV, and books, with some music and games thrown in.  We hope it’s a welcome break from the anger, hate, and idiocy we see almost daily from the other side in the political sphere.

Arguments welcomed, opinions respected, fools un-suffered.  We’re here every Sunday at 7 pm.


Medium Cool – Gender! Medium Cool – Gender! 1

Tonight’s Medium Cool comes straight out of a comment in a recent post.

Torrey

Late to the party, as always, but I notice that the vast majority of actors mentioned are male. Is that a function of who we think of as important or of the more limited types of roles available to women–even very talented women–or of the fact that women communicating emotion isn’t culturally considered to be anything special, while men communicating emotion is noteworthy? Just wondering.

So tonight, let’s talk about her observations and try to answer the questions she raised.

And, for good measure, here is the rest of her comment from last week, in case that sparks some thoughts.

And I’d watch Vanessa Redgrave in anything because I have never watched actual Vanessa Redgrave in anything. That’s because every time I think I’m going to watch what will surely be a tour de force of acting by Vanessa Redgrave, she gives the audience about 5 nanoseconds to think that you’re about to watch Vanessa Redgrave, and then Ms. Redgrave vanishes and whatever character she’s playing shows up, and that’s where you are from then until the end of the movie or play. That’s why.

Also Nikola Walker: one gets the impression every line she speaks is just one she thought up at the moment. She is like Spencer Tracy in making acting look like not acting at all.

Rufus Sewell for much the same reason as Nikola Walker.

He’s had some very strange characters to play, with some very strange (and often stilted) lines, and he somehow manages to make those characters sound perfectly natural.

Sir Alec Guinness for the same reason as Vanessa Redgrave.

Let’s get started!

 

Reader Interactions

156Comments

  1. 1.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Given the love for Judy Dench, Helen Mirren, and Maggie Smith, among others, on this blog, I am not sure the premise is accurate.

  4. 4.

    eclare

    I think it’s probably limited roles for women, especially as they get older.  Plus increased scrutiny of their looks.

  6. 6.

    Chris

    It did occur to me in that thread that the actors I was listing were all male, but I’m honestly not sure if it’s male bias on my part or just less roles being available for women.  Some of both, probably, so I’m not sure how much is one and how much is the other.

    I did eventually remember some examples of women actresses that I’ll watch in pretty much anything, but it took longer.

    On the small screen: Claudia Black.  Mainly from Farscape (where she starts out as a Space Fascist soldier who ends up stranded on a ship of derelicts with the other main characters and gradually learns to be more than what she started out as), Stargate SG-1 (where she starts out as the galaxy’s best con artist and gradually learns to be part of something bigger; think a much more detailed version of Han Solo’s arc from Star Wars), and the Uncharted video games (starts out as a romantic interest in the second game as a fellow tomb raider, but gets her own spin-off game where she has gets more development).

    On the big screen: Michelle Yeoh, who needs no introduction.  First saw her in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, have seen her in about a thousand things since and she’s always great.

    On both screens: Maggie Smith, who also needs no introduction.  Could not for the life of me understand the appeal of 95% of Downton Abbey, but she made every scene she was in awesome.

  7. 7.

    BellaPea

    I’ve noticed in a lot of recent British series (Killing Eve, Day of the Jackal, etc.) that British actresses seem to be held to a different standard–most of the older actresses definitely look like the ages that they actually happen to be, with no apologies, and are treated respectfully on camera. I don’t see much of that in US TV and movies, except for maybe Meryl Streep.

    And Rufus Sewell is definitely hot.

  8. 8.

    Ihop

    I’ve seen viola Davis in less than good projects and she rules. Also I think Tilda Swinton has kicked ass in every role I’ve yet to see.

  9. 9.

    Splitting Image

    I confess that I don’t watch many newer films, but in the old days a lot of the problem was that there were a lot fewer good character roles for women than there were for men. There were very few movies like Twelve Angry Men or The Great Escape with a whole bunch of beefy roles that good actresses could sink their teeth into. By contrast, there are plenty of movies with large, all-male casts. On the other hand, actresses got stuck with an awful lot of Bond Girl type roles that can’t rescue a bad movie.

    This produces a lot of heming and hawing about whether you would watch a good actress in anything. There are quite a few actresses that if you try to watch their whole body of work, you’ll be awe-struck by just how much toxic masculinity you’re subjecting yourself to.

    That said, there are a bunch of actresses that I’ve liked in a lot of things:

    Patricia Routledge was great in Keeping Up Appearances as the Karen from hell, England-style. She was also great as Hetty Wainthropp and as Mrs. Jennings in Sense and Sensibility. She also played Queen Victoria in a miniseries back in the 1960s, which I am trying to hunt down. She has a type that she plays, but she is damn good at it.

    Going back aways, but Thelma Todd was an excellent foil for both Laurel and Hardy and the Marx Brothers, as well as her own comedy series. Horse Feathers and Fra Diavolo are worth checking out. Sadly she dated a gangster and committed suicide by knocking herself unconscious in her car and then turning on the ignition.

    Madeline Kahn was great in nearly everything I’ve seen her in. She holds her own with Gene Wilder, Mel Brooks, and the rest of his crew. She was in The Muppet Movie as well, which shows excellent taste.

    Jane Fonda was great in both comedy and drama. She was excellent in Klute and They Shoot Horses, Don’t They? as well as 9 to 5. (Tomlin and Parton were also great in that one.)

    Helena Bonham-Carter has a long list of great stuff. She latched on to the Merchant Ivory team which was churning out movies which were perfect for her. Then she pivoted into Tim Burton movies, which she was also perfect for. Howard’s End and A Room with a View are both great vehicles for her.

    Alison Steadman has done a lot of good work over the years. She was Mrs. Bennet in the 1995 Pride and Prejudice and had roles in Clockwise and The Singing Detective.

  10. 10.

    Suzanne

    Well, “someone I would watch in anything” is a pretty high bar for me, because I don’t watch much. But there are definitely some actresses who I always enjoy watching. Nicole Kidman, Meryl Streep, Viola Davis, Jodie Foster, Frances McDormond.

  11. 11.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @WaterGirl: Okay.  That brings more context to it.  Oddly enough, in modernish movies, I am more likely to gravitate to it something if it has particular female actors rather than particular male ones.

  13. 13.

    Chris

    @Baud:

    This post is woke.

    No joke, that reaction is what’s made 99% of pop culture conversations on regular social media fucking unreadable.

    The worst part is, half the time I don’t even like the films/TV they’re dumping on.  I want to rip on the Star Wars sequels too; I just want to rip on them from being unimaginative crap that backpedaled frantically from the few interesting ideas it had out of fear of doing anything different from the originals.  Not experience yet another dumbbell’s mid-life crisis filtered through a pretense of pop culture fandom.

  15. 15.

    hells littlest angel

    Hard agree that Nicola Walker is brilliant. See Unforgotten and Last Tango In Halifax.

     

    Some other actors I’d watch in anything: Vicky McClure, Roger Allam and Martin Shaw.

  16. 16.

    Splitting Image

    I forgot to mention Maggie Smith, whose c.v. covers just about everything you would want to do as an actor. I remember her from Clash of the Titans, The Missionary, Sister Act, Gosford Park, A Room with a View, Harry Potter, Agatha Christie, Shakespeare….

  17. 17.

    trollhattan

    Lemme pick a random yet I’m-correct list of working must-watch female leads not also named Streep:

    Amy Adams, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Lisa Kudrow and why not add that Anniston gal, Cate Blanchett, Margot Robbie (good lord, just the Aussies could populate their own list), Angela Bassett, Natalie Portman, Saoirse Ronan, Helena Bonham Carter, Julianne Moore, Halle Berry, Jessica Chastain.

    I could really bog myself down doing this.

    Anybody watching Shrinking? Great show.

  20. 20.

    Chris

    @BellaPea:

    Digression but is Day Of The Jackal any good?

    The original one is just so tied to its time and place in my head that it’s hard to picture in another setting, just like it would be hard for me to see the point of a The Hunt For Red October retelling set in anything but an eighties Cold War context, or The Guns of Navarone in an early WWII Mediterranean context.  I did see the original remake with Bruce Willis, and it didn’t do much for me.  On the other hand, I do like the lead actor and actress of the new show, so I may give it a shot anyway.

  21. 21.

    hells littlest angel

    @BellaPea: British TV actors of both sexes look more like normal human beings than American actors. Their makeup is put on for the camera, not to make them glamorous.

  22. 22.

    Poe Larity.

    Put Thomas Sewell, Nikola Walker and Beat Takeshi in a show.

    It would be perfect, when it goes bad like every show does after two seasons, Beat would just end it.

  23. 23.

    Chris

    @Splitting Image:

    There were very few movies like Twelve Angry Men or The Great Escape with a whole bunch of beefy roles that good actresses could sink their teeth into.

    Ocean’s Eleven was a good recent(ish) version of that on the male side of things, which is why I liked that they gave it a female version in Ocean’s Eight.  No, it wasn’t as great as the original, but then neither were the first two sequels.  On the other hand, Sandra Bullock and Cate Blanchett were still great in it – speaking of two other actresses that are pretty reliably great.

  24. 24.

    eclare

    @Ihop:

    She is an amazing actress, so good in Brooklyn.

    Although there aren’t any actors or actresses that I would see in anything.  If I don’t think that I’ll enjoy it or the movie has gotten bad reviews, I don’t see it.

    I’m pretty picky that way.

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    Permanent soft spot for the versatile Swoosie Kurtz. Also for Kristin Chenoweth.

    From bygone times? Edna May Oliver, Beulah Bondi, Dorothy Dandrige, Mae West, Marlene Dietrich, Anna May Wong, Frances Farmer, Myrna Loy, Marie Dressler . To rattle off only a few.

  32. 32.

    Chris

    @SpaceUnit:

    We should do Actors You Would Never Watch in Anything as a topic and just let the shit fly.

    Shia LeBeouf.  There, that was my preemptive contribution.

  33. 33.

    Almost Retired

    Interesting topic.  While men get to be sex symbols well into their dotage, historically women in Hollywood were consigned to crones and sexless character actors at a relatively young age.

    Think of Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard (she was only 50).  Or Bette Davis in Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

    But more recently, actors  like Vanessa Redgrave or Judi Dench or Maggie Smith played complicated and interesting characters into their 80s.  The disparity is still there, but it’s getting better.

    Those three examples of successful older women were all knighted, so maybe it’s Queen Elizabeth’s fault that Davis, Swanson and Crawford weren’t made Dames and had to take demeaning roles.

  34. 34.

    zhena gogolia

    Barbara Stanwyck. Ingrid Bergman.

    Fabia Drake.

    Now people who are still alive? I’ll co-sign on Maggie Smith. Celia Imrie is always good (check her out in The Diplomat). We’re watching Dalgliesh now and I’m finding Carlyss Peer to be a quite interesting and subtle actress. Nicola Walker is great in everything. (Her Jonathan Creek appearance is a particular must-see.) Anna Chancellor. SAMANTHA BOND.

    ETA: Oops, Maggie is no longer with us.

  36. 36.

    Poe Larity.

    Helen Mirren

    To think about Prime Suspect in the early 90’s. What a performance, and the emotional exhaustion of working in the boys world.

  37. 37.

    zhena gogolia

    @SpaceUnit: That would be a great topic. I would have said Tom Cruise, but I recently enjoyed his work in Eyes Wide Shut. I’ve hated him in everything else.

  38. 38.

    Almost Retired

    @zhena gogolia:  Yes!!! Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca was the most beautiful woman to ever appear on film (disagree….fight me).  She aged very naturally and was stunningly beautiful at every stage of her life.

  47. 47.

    eclare

    @zhena gogolia:

    I liked Jerry Maguire, and I think I enjoyed Risky Business.  But I haven’t seen any of his movies in probably at least twenty years, action movies like Mission Impossible are not my thing.

  49. 49.

    kalakal

    I’d say that Louise Fletcher in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest and Kathy Bates in Misery showed that woman actors are just as good their male counterparts

    One who shone throughout a long career was Angela Lansbury

  52. 52.

    sixthdoctor

    Three words: Olivia goddamn Colman.

    And her fellow Broadchurch actress, Jodie Whitaker. I know her run as the Doctor is considered hit or miss (and it’s not my fave) but she’s fantastic. I found the show’s direction and writing to be more of the problem.

  53. 53.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Chris: haha, imagine a MAGA _Day of the Jackal_ remake,  with Trump as the President, and the conspiracy is to assassinate him.  It’s foiled, of course, and the MAGAts come off looking like heroes whereas we all come off looking like traitors.  I can just see D’felon D’vorce D’spousa writing the spec script firing up Mechanical Turk to get a spec script written by some poor ink-stained wretch in India Vietnam Sri Lanka.

  56. 56.

    Almost Retired

    @NotMax: Right.  She was amazing.  And a scientific genius.   She helped invent radar or cellphones or the internet or something.  Gotta look that up again because I forgot.

  57. 57.

    Splitting Image

    @Almost Retired:

    Interesting topic. While men get to be sex symbols well into their dotage, historically women in Hollywood were consigned to crones and sexless character actors at a relatively young age.

    Think of Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard (she was only 50). Or Bette Davis in Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

    Ava Gardner apparently lobbied to get the Mrs. Robinson role in The Graduate (when she was 45-ish) and was rejected because the director wanted to cast a younger woman.

  58. 58.

    hells littlest angel

    @sixthdoctor: Jodie Whittaker is great, but as Doctor Who — hoo boy! That did her career no favors. (Full disclosure: I can’t bear Doctor Who.)

  61. 61.

    Ihop

    Back in for Julie Andrew’s, sigourney weaver ans grace goddam Kelly. And Audrey hepburn. And Ingrid Bergman. And Rosalind russell. And Thelma Ritter. And Margaret Hamilton, the greatest screen villian of all time.

     

    Oh and if’n I ever live with another kitty girl I’m going to name her myrna loy.

  62. 62.

    Chris

    @Chetan Murthy:

    The only actually plausible scenario for a political conspiracy trying to kick Trump’s bucket would be if it were coming from other Republicans.  Two birds with one stone: 1) you blame liberals, whip the outraged MAGA mob into a frenzy, and get an excuse for all kinds of bullshit like martial law and arresting other politicians, and 2) you no longer have to deal with the exhuasting and unpredictable asshole and can step into the vacuum yourself.

    Somebody would definitely be writing that script in which the whole thing was done by George Soros and Antifa, though, and then handing it to the Fox News pundits.

  67. 67.

    Chris

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    I hated the first two Transformers movies that I saw, didn’t watch anything else in the franchise after that.  The next time I took another crack at the franchise was a decade later with Bumblebee, and it was actually good.  And then later at some point I saw the one with Mark Wahlberg, and it wasn’t good, but it wasn’t the worst thing ever.

    And then I remembered that I couldn’t really bring myself to like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull either.  And then the next Indy movie, from which Shia was absent, came out, and sure, it wasn’t the trilogy, but it was a lot more enjoyable than Kingdom was…

    … And at some point in there I was like, you know what?  I’m pretty sure the common element there is Shia LaBoeuf’s presence being the dealbreaker.

  71. 71.

    Ihop

    Oh sweet fancy moses, carrie fisher.  And Greta garbo. And ginger rogers (politics aside)

    And Judy garland and lena Horne.

    Ahhh, and Lauren bacall. And Judy holliday.

  73. 73.

    hueyplong

    @Almost Retired: I’ll fight you, sort of.  Ingrid Bergman in Notorious.

    Responding a little more directly to the directive, I don’t think Alfre Woodard has ever been bad in a role I’ve seen.

  75. 75.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Chris:

    I don’t see Shia as a bad actor from what I’ve seen of him, but YMMV

    For Transformers, I never cared much for the Bayformers’ designs; I like the blocky designs of G1. I remember watching the first movie and I thought it was painful to look at. The whole Megan Fox thing was juvenile and crass too. I remember there were these two racist robots in the second movie.

    And since we’re on the topic of franchise movies, is it just me or do older movies, like the original Indiana Jones films, have more heart in them then more modern movies, especially the new Marvel superhero stuff? Studios resurrecting old IPs and franchises is also a thing that contributes to that less fresh and sincere feeling. Movies like BTTF, Ghostbusters, RoboCop, etc were fun flicks and they didn’t seem, I don’t know, overly forumulaic?  I’m not of an age to have watched these films when they released, but I did when I was a kid. I’m not sure of it’s my own nostalgia or not.

    I mean, it’s not like remakes, reboots, adaptations are anything new. The Wizard of Oz was adaptation of a book. Many of the famous Hollywood musicals were adaptations from Broadway. Lots of remakes too. But lately it feels like nothing original is being made; it all has to be based on an already existing IP

  77. 77.

    KatKapCC

    Frances McDormand, Michelle Yeoh, Cate Blanchett, Natasha Lyonne, and Alfre Woodard off the top of my head all are massive faves. Very distinct from each other but they all stand out so well in every role.

  78. 78.

    Just look at that parking lot

    Male actors receive nominations and awards for playing off kilter roles. Tom Hanks as Forrest Gump/ Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man/Jeff Bridges as Starman, .  Help me out and come up with female actors who’ve had similar roles and received awards/acclaim. I’m sure there are some, maybe.

  80. 80.

    Almost Retired

    @Ihop:  I am going to out myself here as old.  I recall Alfre Woodard was either in the pilot or an early episode of LA Law and blew everyone away.

  82. 82.

    KatKapCC

    @Almost Retired:

    While men get to be sex symbols well into their dotage, historically women in Hollywood were consigned to crones and sexless character actors at a relatively young age.

    There’s a great line in The First Wives Club (fun movie!) when Goldie Hawn’s character, an actress who won an Oscar but now can barely find work due in part to her age, tells someone, “There are only three ages for women in Hollywood: Babe, District Attorney, and Driving Miss Daisy.”

  83. 83.

    citizen dave

    I always have thought Juilianne Moore is at the very top and I enjoy watching her movies.  Frances McDormand, of course (Fargo and Burn After Reading are favorites).

    Actors like Jack Nicholson, though a great movie actor–only medium he worked in (other than some tv at the start)–was able to sustain a huge career by being, basically, the “Jack Nicholson type” guy first, and the role second.  John Wayne similar.  I’m guessing The Rock and Arnold S are similar, though I’ve see none of the former and only some of the latter.

    In the old days the studios curated the star personas of both genders, but maybe even more for the females.  Of those, my favorite is Joan Crawford.  Bette Davis a standout of as well.

    Curiously, Meryl Streep can simultaneously occupy the “will watch in anything” and “won’t watch in anything”.

  84. 84.

    Timill

    @Almost Retired:

    Frequency-hopping spread spectrum

    In 1942, actress Hedy Lamarr and composer George Antheil received U.S. patent 2,292,387 for their “Secret Communications System”,[9][10] an early version of frequency hopping using a piano-roll to switch among 88 frequencies to make radio-guided torpedoes harder for enemies to detect or jam. They then donated the patent to the U.S. Navy.[11]

    Frequency-hopping ideas may have been rediscovered in the 1950s during patent searches when private companies were independently developing direct-sequence Code Division Multiple Access, a non-frequency-hopping form of spread-spectrum.[citation needed] In 1957, engineers at Sylvania Electronic Systems Division adopted a similar idea, using the recently invented transistor instead of Lamarr’s and Antheil’s clockwork technology.[9][dubious – discuss] In 1962, the US Navy utilized Sylvania Electronic Systems Division’s work during the Cuban Missile Crisis.[12]

  86. 86.

    Chris

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    And since we’re on the topic of franchise movies, is it just me or do older movies, like the original Indiana Jones films, have more heart in them then more modern movies, especially the new superhero stuff? Studios resurrecting old IPs and franchises is also a thing that contributes to that less fresh and sincere feeling.

    I mean, I kind of feel that way, but it’s hard to say how much of that is justifiable and how much of it is just subjective nostalgia, especially since I’m exactly in the age range that grew up rewatching things like Indiana Jones and Star Wars on VHS.  There are all kinds of things that make me go “hey, eighties and nineties film/TV did this better,” but I couldn’t say whether that’s more or less true than in the gap between, say, eighties and nineties film/TV and fifties and sixties film/TV.

    I mean, it’s not like remakes, reboots, adaptations are anything new. The Wizard of Oz was adaptation of a book. Many of the famous Hollywood musicals were adaptations from Broadway. Lots of remakes too. But lately it feels like nothing original is being made; it all has to be based on an already existing IP

    That part at least is probably the solidest complaint.  From what I understand, Hollywood studios in general have gotten incredibly reluctant to greenlight projects that aren’t based on existing IP, which is where you get all that stuff.

    I think one of my favorite observations about this is still one that I read on Cracked more than a decade ago: Hollywood needs to stop making remakes and go back to making rip-offs.  Star Wars and Indiana Jones, after all, were rip-offs, pretty much openly so: it’s George Lucas resurrecting the kind of serials that were huge in the thirties or at the latest the fifties.  But the fact that you’re not literally remaking an existing IP, with the existing characters and setting and storylines – and the existing fanbase with its own memories of all these things that’s ready to pounce and go “you got it wrong” – you’ve got a lot more freedom to maneuver and usually end up making something at least somewhat original.

  87. 87.

    Tehanu

    Ida Lupino, Irene Dunne, Mary Astor, Barbara Stanwyk. And some much more recent, some more famous than others: Shirley Henderson, Cheryl Campbell, Jenny Agutter, Judy Davis, Kristin Scott Thomas, Bibi Andersson, Eileen Atkins, Annette Bening, Emma Thompson, Claire Bloom, Alice Krige, Joanna Cassidy, Greta Scacchi, Wendie Malick, Claire Danes, Diane Venora, Diane Varsi, Elizabeth McGovern, Joanne Whalley, Miranda Richardson, Patsy Byrne, Miriam Margolyes, Helen Mirren, Kate Winslet, Imelda Staunton, Mary Louise Parker, . I second (or third, or whatever) Nicola Walker, Frances McDormand, and Amy Adams, who’ve already been mentioned.

  92. 92.

    billcinsd

    I would add Audrey Tautou, and Penelope Ann  Miller

    For someone I can’t watch in anything in which he is trying to be serious — Bruce Willis

  94. 94.

    Suzanne

    @Chris: Shia LeBoof is terrible. I was so glad they wrote him out of Indiana Jones. Fuck that guy.

    I will also confess that I find Gwyneth Paltrow annoying as fuck.

  95. 95.

    kalakal

    @Tehanu: Jenny Agutter, I had a serious crush on her as a young lad.

    Jamie Lee Curtis has managed a long and successful career with an incredible range of roles. I loved her in Trading Places

  97. 97.

    RSA

    @BellaPea:  And Rufus Sewell is definitely hot.

    Speaking of Rufus Sewell and British TV series, did you catch him as Italian detective Aurelio Zen in the BBC series, Zen?  He is ridiculously attractive in that role.

  98. 98.

    kalakal

    It’s not that I wouldn’t watch him in anything but Anthony Hopkins annoys the hell out of me sometimes. He’s a fantastic actor but directors too often get him to overdo it. I blame Silence of the Lambs

  99. 99.

    Chetan Murthy

    @kalakal: I never watched any of her earlier stuff, but I thought she was just GREAT in MI-5.  TBF, I didn’t even know who she was, until MI-5.

  103. 103.

    eclare

    @Suzanne:

    I hated that she beat Cate Blanchett at the Oscars for the meh Shakespeare in Love.  And that dress, ugh.

    Cate was brilliant in Elizabeth.  But I guess Harvey Weinstein did his job promoting Gwyneth.  That’s aged well.

  104. 104.

    Chris

    @Suzanne:

    In the spirit of the original post, I was racking my brains to see if there are any female actresses I find as annoying as Shia LaBeouf, and now that you mention her, Paltrow might be it.

    Hot take: the original Iron Man movie messes up by making Gwyneth Paltrow’s character the main female character – and Stark’s eventual partner in crime – rather than the reporter who’s seen needling him at various points throughout the movie.  The script really, really doesn’t want you to notice this, but the reporter is right about everything.  Not only is her initial “merchant of death” assessment correct, but even after Stark’s been through his capture ordeal and decided he’s not going to make weapons anymore, it’s not until she confronts him at a party with the reality of what his weapons are still out there doing that he’s finally motivated to put on the suit and go out and start fixing his messes.  In other words, that he becomes Iron Man.  Stark really needs somebody to call him on his bullshit, and the person who’s by far the best at it in the entire franchise is that character.  But the script pretty much sticks to the “shrill unlikable harpy of a reporter” portrayal.

  106. 106.

    KatKapCC

    @eclare: I absolutely love that movie…except sorta for Gwyneth. She wasn’t horrible but I really think the role needed someone with more depth, and I agree Blanchett blew her out of the water and ought to have won. And that damn dress looked like it had been sewn together the night before by a someone wearing a blindfold.

  109. 109.

    citizen dave

    @Suzanne: I recently re-watched The Royal Tennenbaums and can get on board with Gwyneth Paltrow being annoying AF.  Seemed to me like she was simply channeling Parker Posey in that film.  Many of the Wes Anderson films–so different they appeared at the time of release–now you watch them and just go, huh, it’s slightly funny.

    I highly recommend the Prime 6 episode series of a bumbling crew stealing a shitload of maple syrup from the Quebec maple syrup reserves (a real thing–and a real event)–The Sticky.  Jamie Lee Curtis is a producer and she shows up in the show in a super fun way.

  111. 111.

    FelonyGovt

    Meryl Streep, Viola Davis, Patricia Clarkson, Judy Dench, Maggie Smith, Octavia Spencer, Olivia Colman. Oh, and of course Nicola Walker.

  112. 112.

    SpaceUnit

    @raven:

    Brendan Fraser used to get a bad rap because he was in some pretty terrible movies.  I blame his agent.

    Blast From The Past is very entertaining and funny.  Haven’t yet seen The Whale.

  114. 114.

    Another Scott

    @kalakal: Lansbury was great.

    The Manchurian Candidate:

    In 1962, she appeared in the Cold War thriller The Manchurian Candidate as Eleanor Iselin, cast for the role by John Frankenheimer. Although Lansbury played actor Laurence Harvey’s mother in the film, she was in fact only three years older than him.[62]

    !!!

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  119. 119.

    karen marie

    Just passing through and saw the pictures – I have no idea who Rufus Sewell is but he looks like he could be Ian McShane’s son!

    I loved Lovejoy.

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    Can I just say that Rufus Sewell doesn’t just have the looks, he also has an amazing voice.  I first saw him in a TV show called Eleventh Hour.

    I would watch that again if I could.

  123. 123.

    Splitting Image

    @Just look at that parking lot:

    Help me out and come up with female actors who’ve had similar roles and received awards/acclaim. I’m sure there are some, maybe.

    Jane Fonda did Barbarella in 1968 and was nominated for a Best Actress Oscar the next year for They Shoot Horses, Don’t They? Definitely went against her type.

    Farrah Fawcett also got a lot of praise for The Burning Bed in the early ’80s, which was a big departure from her earlier roles.

    So it does happen, but it is clearly easier to do a variety of roles as an actor than as an actress.

    Another actress I’m fond of in just about everything she has done is Diane Keaton. She starred with Goldie Hawn in First Wives Club, mentioned above, as well as The Godfather and most of the Woody Allen movies that I still enjoy watching.

  125. 125.

    Chris

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:

    Well, I’ve only seen her in two things, forty or fifty years apart.

    I liked her a lot in James Bond. Probably my favorite of the Bond girls! Then I saw her on Game Of Thrones and it took me I don’t know how many episodes to realize it was her. Jaw dropping moment when I did.

  127. 127.

    kalakal

    I was watching a remake of Agatha Christies The Pale Horse when I suddenly realised one of the  ‘witches’ was Rita Tushingham. As slender as ever and with those huge eyes. For the next few weeks she seemed to turn up in everything I watched on Britbox. Hadn’t seen her in years, she’s still excellent

    Someone who started out as eye candy, Bond Girl and model, and has just got better and better over the years is Joanna Lumley. She’s great in Educating Rita. 

    Ditto Jane Asher

  131. 131.

    pajaro

    rachel weisz, especially in The Constant Gardener, and Carey Mulligan, in just about everything she’s done.

  132. 132.

    Splitting Image

    @Chris:

    Well, I’ve only seen her in two things, forty or fifty years apart.

    I liked her a lot in James Bond. Probably my favorite of the Bond girls! Then I saw her on Game Of Thrones and it took me I don’t know how many episodes to realize it was her. Jaw dropping moment when I did.

    Rigg’s signature role is Emma Peel in TV’s The Avengers with Patrick Macnee back in the 1960s. She was also the host of Mystery! on PBS for many years.

    Another series to look out for if you’re a fan of Diana Rigg is Mrs. Bradley Mysteries, based on a detective created by Gladys Mitchell, who was one of Agatha Christie’s main rivals but who has since fallen somewhat into obscurity. The series was set in the 1920s and has some really good costumes.

  133. 133.

    Chris

    @Splitting Image:

    Okay, you got me. I’ve seen her in three things. Only seen a few episodes of The Avengers, but one of them was the iconic Hellfire Club episode.

    Will check out the Bradley series.

  136. 136.

    hueyplong

    @kalakal: I rode an elevator with her in 1977. No one in human social history was ever more awkward and starstruck than me at that moment. She said hello and I stuttered hello while having a minor stroke.

  137. 137.

    KatKapCC

    @WaterGirl: I think the only thing I’ve seen him in was Dark City (which also had Jennifer Connelly, another female actor I like), which I loved, and I agree he’s got a terrific voice. He should do audiobook narration!

  141. 141.

    Yutsano

    @sixthdoctor: ​It was absolutely without a doubt not Jodie’s fault. Chibnall was not a good show runner. She was saddled with three companions plus they were all trying to film during the plague. The writing was all over the place.

    But Jodie? She was brill.

  142. 142.

    CaseyL

    At this point in my life, I’m not sure I’d watch my favorite actors in everything and anything, because, like eclare, I’m picky.

    However, I cannot let this discussion go without mentioned Juliet Stevenson, who has not gotten nearly enough roles or attention. British actor, most noted for being in “Bend it like Beckham,” and “Truly Madly Deeply.” I also lucked out and saw a PBS (I think) airing of her as Antigone in “The Theban Plays by Sophocles” (1986). She was a firecracker in that; you couldn’t take your eyes off of her. At least, I couldn’t.

  144. 144.

    eclare

    @KatKapCC:

    She had a part in an episode of The Bear, season two.  And damn if she didn’t steal the scene from some really good scenery chewers.

  145. 145.

    Yutsano

    Since Carol Burnett got mentioned, I’m gonna stick my neck out here.

    Mary Tyler Moore was amazing.

    And I have yet to see any love for Betty White yet*.

    *I may have missed it, there are a lot of name drops in this thread.

  146. 146.

    Sally

    Two actors I usually like are Nancy Carroll and Patricia Hodge. They were both in Murder in Provence, a show I can watch over again. It is beautifully shot and all the actors really gel. I agree with many already named and disagree strongly with some – eg, Nicole Kidman always seems wooden to me. I love Slow Horses and enjoy Kirsten Scott Thomas in it. Also Camille Cottin and Philippine Leroy-Beaulieu who are together in Call My Agent. Cottin has done some great movies.
    Rigg was great with her daughter in The Detectorists. Joanna Lumley anyone? Saw her in some off beat movie set in Scotland about an opera singer. Not too diva to let herself look really awful. Hard to imagine, I know. I could have watched her forever in Ab Fab. What a character was Patsy.

  147. 147.

    Msb

    Echoing Tehanu to praise Imelda Staunton, great stage and film actor. Can sing and dance, too. Even the lousy writing of The Crown couldn’t quite extinguish her. See her in Vera Drake, if you haven’t yet.
    I would watch Dame Harriet Walter in almost anything. Her film roles have not been great or numerous (including 6 words in a Star Wars movie), but I’ve been watching her do Shakespeare for over 40 years. She was also in Succession, which I didn’t watch. She’s Christopher Lee’s niece, weirdly enough.
    Of the younger actors, let’s add Cynthia Errivo, who has played both Harriet Tubman and the Witch of the West.

  148. 148.

    Eos

    For a concentrated dose of Nicola Walker, the entire run of Annika Strandhed is available at the BBC website.  (Summarizing: 31 episodes, but only 15 minutes each, starring Walker as the title detective/monologist.)

    And a suggestion for a future edition of Medium Cool suggested by another line from Walker’s professional history, specifically, Spooks (MI-5): television shows (or movie universes or book series) which have substantially reinvented themselves over the course of their runs.

    (One example, Spooks was probably four or five different shows across its ten series; another: Whose Line is it Anyway? cycled through three different identities in its first few UK series before becoming what it’s been for the past three decades.)

  149. 149.

    Mel

    Juliette Binoche, Octavia Spencer, Isabella Rossellini, Charlotte Rampling, Viola Davis, Helen Mirren.

  150. 150.

    VeniceRiley

    @NotMax: The Sticky is great. Margot Martindale should be on everyone’s list.

    Every actress as in Hidden Figures.

    Cannot believe we got into 80+ comments to see Kate Winslet.

    Kerry Washington.

    Hannah Waddingham (just because of my Ted Lasso crush. And also her ding bell of shame nun on GOT.) SPEAKING OF … Lena Heady, y’all! OMG

  152. 152.

    AM in NC

    @Suzanne:  Yep, Gwyneth tops my irrational hate list.  Although, after reading a bunch of her insipid/offensive comments about a range of topics she knows nothing about; her life of ungodly privilege that goes almost completely unacknowledged; the fact that her Weinstein-promoted-performance got her the Oscar (for a role she stole from her supposed friend Wynona Ryder) over Cate Blanchett’s far FAR superior performance in Elizabeth AND her greed-soaked, dangerous website GOOP is a harmful grift – maybe the hatred isn’t irrational, come to think of it.

    I mean this is a person who got her first film role because “Uncle Steven” (Spielberg) needed a blond girl for Peter Pan’s “Wendy” and gosh darn it, wouldn’t this dear dear friend’s child be just perfect?

    She has never disappeared into a role, AFAICT.  It’s always some version of Gwynnie.

    For women I could (mostly) always watch: Frances McDormand, Nicola Walker, Cate Blanchett, Tilda Swinton, Myrna Loy, Kristin Scott Thomas (she is so good in Slow Horses, keeping right up with Gary Oldman), and in a slightly younger vein: Greta Lee, Saoirse Ronan

  153. 153.

    AM in NC

    Coming back to add a few more I forgot:

    Fiona Shaw

    Carey Mulligan

    I noticed that very few of the actors I named are American. I think that speaks to the parts rather than the actors.      It’s also very noticeable that American female actors are almost all super, extraordinarily conventionally beautiful, whereas actors from the UK, at least, don’t all have to be, and that opens up the field to more people, AND often allows people to slip more completely into roles.

  154. 154.

    CaseyL

    @AM in NC: 

    I’ve noticed this too – that British actors tend to just be “better” IMO – and I believe it’s because British actors are, almost uniformly, theater trained. That’s an intensive level of training, right down to gestures and facial expressions. It gives a much greater depth and nuance to their work.

    US actors, OTOH, tend to get their training – if any at all – from working in TV. Not exactly known for its ability to portray nuance.

Comments are closed.