Here’s a little story about a man in his early 70’s, hard worker, respected by colleagues and the people he serves. He seems sharp as a tack and is healthy and fit for his age. One day, he’s doing his job and he feels that he just isn’t performing up to the standard he expects from himself and colleagues. So, he retires — some would say early, considering his condition. I would say that his retirement is probably not something a whole lot of people celebrated, since they liked to have him around and considered him a wise person worth consulting. But he knew it was time, and he left before something terrible happened.
That’s my dad, a retired country doctor. His retirement was painful for him. He would often say he felt useless, and with time on his hands, he would think back over cases of people who died who could have lived if more modern treatment were available (“we were so stupid” was a common refrain). He loved his work, but he let it go.
So when I write about a 74-year-old man who was recently diagnosed with esophageal cancer but still wants to lead the Oversight Committee, I have the same expectations for him as I do for my father, and for countless thousands of people who retire every day. If you can’t do the job with the vigor and concentration that it deserves, move over for someone else.
And don’t have any illusions about how difficult the job of a committee chair or other leadership position is. Nancy Pelosi broke her hip while on a congressional delegation to Luxembourg the other day. She’s got incredible energy for her age, but the expectations for leadership are high, so I assume she still takes a lot of trips that would be tiring for anyone, never mind an 84 year-old.
Finally, the whole seniority system is broken and needs to be replaced. It’s a perverse incentive for people who ought to retire to hang on so they can be committee chairs in their later years. And, it’s not always honored: Hakeem Jeffries will be starting his 7th term in Congress next year, but he’s already the minority leader. Certainly there are more senior leaders in the party who should have gotten “their turn”, but didn’t, presumably because Jeffries is more energetic and able. Seniority gives us leaders steeped in traditions that haven’t been honored or acknowledged by Republicans for decades. It gives us leaders who are good behind-the-scenes maneuverers, but often poor spokespeople. It also gives us people from districts where they don’t have to campaign very hard. And it gives us Dianne Feinstein.
The main goal of an opposition party is to oppose. It’s trivial but true that part of that includes the ability for the leadership to get in front of a microphone and be loud and proud about what we’re against (and what we’re for, instead). There’s no sin in expecting our leadership to be up to the job. It’s not ageism to let the voters decide if their representative is still up to the job, but let the caucus rules and norms decide that a sick or feeble person isn’t up to a leadership position.
Update:
Driving the news: Connolly defeated Ocasio-Cortez 131-84, according to sources with knowledge of the matter.
-
He had the backing of several veteran lawmakers, including former Speaker Nancy Pelosi(D-Calif.).
brendancalling
Endorsed, 100%.
Adding: its not like these codgers NEED the money and can’t stop working, like the elderly cashier at my local grocery, or the ancient woman that takes my money if I buy fast food. No, they get quite generous retirement packages.
Why they don’t retire to Italy and spend their golden years drinking wine, I have no idea.
WereBear
Yes this in all caps for the luvvaallthatsholy this is like a slap in the FACE.
Aimai
I agree! I can’t believe the old guy with cancer is fighting to take control. A younger, more energetic, woman is RIGHT FUCKING THERE.
This is all much more on my mind right now as I am just starting my private practice (four years in) and intending to keep going until I’m 75 (ten years from now) but I’ve just had a concerning diagnosis and may have to have surgery and take a few months off. When you think about your patients and their need for continuity of care, as your father did, it simply becomes obvious (at some point,not necessarily now for me) that you may have to close down your practice even if, like your father, you feel useless and bored without the work you love. I don’t have to make that decision yet but I realize now that it may come sooner, or more unexpectedly, than I want. I really honor your father for going out on top, because it is a huge personal sacrifice of meaning in one’s life to give up work.
cmorenc
Maybe this was in part perverse virtue signaling by establishment Ds against letting a young, aggressively progressive woman like AOC be the leadership face of the party. And giving it instead to an old veteran congressman as a prize for his years of service and entertaining yarns at DC power-people cocktail parties. They just don’t want to let AOC == face of the D party even more than showing proper concern for their alternative’s actual ability to serve, and also because voting for her represents not honoring the seniority accumulated by other members of the D caucus, hoping to someday cash that seniority in on powerful leadership positions.
Dragon64
I guess I have a problem if that was my congress person. I want my congress person to have as much clout and power as could be possible. I don’t want another person to get that power and help her district when mine could be helped. Because, let’s face it. Your congress person is there to represent you and your neighbors, not what other people thinks is best for the party.
The Audacity of Krope
Still waiting on a non-age-related reason. And this is appalling.
ETA: When I was thinking this past summer that I didn’t want Democrats to make a habit of that outrage, I hadn’t even considered they might do so quite this literally.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Dragon64:
From my perspective, the way this should work is if your Congressperson isn’t fit for a leadership position, they need to make the case that they’re still effective to their constituents. Seniority, and the major perks that come with it, delays calling that question, but the question needs to be called for all of us.
Miss Bianca
@The Audacity of Krope: What’s appalling? The fact that the Democrats threw over a perfectly healthy (but OLD!!11!!) POTUS but appear A-OK with keeping another old but NON-healthy guy in a leadership position? Yeah, you’re right, that is appalling.
Suzanne
I will note that it is also not ageism to feel that someone close to one’s own age may represent one’s interests a bit better. All kinds of diversity provide different perspectives. Having people from a range of age cohorts is part of that broad representation.
way2blue
Reposting from an older post below—with the added note that a friend who was an ER doctor retired young when he felt he couldn’t make the snap decisions needed to triage patients quickly & accurately. (Then become a sports doctor traveling with the U.S. bicycling team.)
The Audacity of Krope
@Miss Bianca: The repeated outbursts of bigotry all year. Mostly about age, some heavily religious coded.
And I’m not OK with the age thing in any case. Not Biden, not Connolly, not even Trump. This is depravity.
scav
@Dragon64: But then again, that position implies that you put your personal area of political representation’s needs, desires and wellbeing over the needs and wellbeing of the entire nation. You’re not playing as a part of a team.
Chief Oshkosh
@Suzanne: That was apparently part of Claude Pepper’s appeal to Florida retirees. Makes sense. OTOH, I don’t remember Pepper doing anything BUT (stellar) constituent work.
ETA: I don’t remember, and I’m too lazy to Google…
Ksmiami
@The Audacity of Krope: it’s not bigotry to identify crucial weak spots – the Democrats need a complete redesign and redefining brand overhaul that by necessity means new blood. And my friends dad died of esophageal cancer in a fast and horrific way.
Professor Bigfoot
Begs the question of whether the individual in question is actually debilitated, and incapable of doing the job.
Since it’s a position that’s elected by his peers, would they not be better placed to know whether or not the individual in question is capable of that leadership?
WereBear
I went to the website for the man to find out what he has done, and all I found out was committees he was on.
Should I be impressed? Tell me what a Wizard of Oversight he will be. Please.
Miss Bianca
@The Audacity of Krope: I’m OK with it if the guy isn’t going to be up to doing the job. Cancer treatment is a bitch. My dad died in the harness at his job with a diagnosis of liver cancer, but a), he made the decision that he *wasn’t* getting any debilitating treatment for it, and b), as a college professor he was doing important work, sure, but he wasn’t making decisions of nationwide import.
Basically, I smell a whiff of hypocrisy on the part of Congressional Democrats here, that it’s so terribly important we get rid of a functioning POTUS in favor of someone younger and presumably more up to the rigors of the job, but OH, HEY, not so much in the case of one of their own colleagues. To me, it’s a displeasing smell, but YMMV.
VincentN
@The Audacity of Krope: Ok, is health concerns a sufficient non-age related reason?
The Audacity of Krope
@Ksmiami: it’s not bigotry to identify crucial weak spots – the Democrats need a complete redesign and redefining brand overhaul that by necessity means new blood
I’m all for Democrats redefining themselves, but bigotry needs to be left out of that redefining. That’s like thinking Trump is good just because the system is broken and Trump is against “the system.”
Democrats do need to redefine, not to something worse. They’re already not all that good.
Chief Oshkosh
@Professor Bigfoot:
Ah, but that begs the question: Should we place that trust in those peers? And it’s not just a matter of capability (which is tactical), it’s a matter of strategy — are his goals and plans to achieve those goals in line with what we, the base, enthusiastically desire?
scav
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Still thinking of it as a team effort, some fine athletes aren’t cut out to be, say, quarterbacks but are peak candidates for I don’t know, tackles or blockers or those sneaky ones that find the hole they can catch the ball in. And they’re just as important as the throwy one. Insisting that all representatives have to have committee leadership skills may be as useful as a team of all quarterbacks.
The Audacity of Krope
@VincentN: Ok, is health concerns a sufficient non-age related reason?
They’re definitely being deliberately linked here, but I’ll give it to you. Health concerns are also his concerns. It’s up to him whether he is healthy enough to pursue the job and up to his colleagues whether they think he can perform it.
AOC is the other person seeking this job, right? Do you see her pushing this sort of messaging?
Mistermix had a post on the same subject last night with a social media post from AOC. Maybe look there for your messaging cues.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@The Audacity of Krope:
I guess you’re waiting to hear why AOC is better than Connolly? OK:
First, AOC has shown the ability to gain attention on Oversight through her detailed, well-informed questioning. Unlike most members on either side of the aisle, she uses her question time to ask effective, incisive questions rather than bloviating. In a social media driven world, she has the ability to create memorable clips and sound bites.
Second, she’s a good fundraiser which means she can support committee members. Her PAC spent $15 mil last cycle. Connolly spent $2 mil. Huge, meaningful difference.
Third, she runs a great district — wins by big numbers despite primary challenges, and is a model for constituent outreach and service.
strange visitor (from another planet)
so yah. i read it’s nancy (hip) SMASH shivving AOC in the back and pushing connoly (sound familiar?!?). pelosi has been reading things wrong and fucking shit up since she “stepped down” from leadership (but still manages to manipulate the caucus).
oh. riiight. “we have the house” she said.
fuck that shit. send her out to the fucking pasture
@@mistermix.bsky.social: eta- shit is relative. she only has “good” constituent services bc crowley’s crew was impossible to get on the phone (and THAT had more to do with her toppling him than ANYTHING, imo).
Betty Cracker
I don’t think it’s ageism to take advanced age and general health into account when determining fitness for positions that require lots of focus, energy and continuity. Kudos to your dad for recognizing that it’s not about him — it’s about the people he serves. That’s hard for some folks to wrap their minds around.
@Aimai: Wishing all the best for you!
The Audacity of Krope
@@mistermix.bsky.social: And I don’t doubt she is good. I’m sure she is capable of the job she is seeking. Their colleagues sure seem to be indicating they think both are capable. The PAC fundraising is an actual salient point that you might consider emphasizing more.
I love AOC. And I would be pleased as hell if she gets the ranking position on oversight. That doesn’t mean ripping down her competitor in the most shameless way possible.
Less ageism, more AOC tweets.
Dragon64
@@mistermix.bsky.social: I get it but then, we are all playing arm chair doctors. I don’t know the status of the guy. I don’t know his prognosis. I don’t know his energy level. I know nothing. I hate to make assumptions. I just know what i want my congressperson to do.
Old School
Since the Republicans are going to control the Oversight Committee for the next two years, I’m not sure what power the Ranking Member has. Is it that much more than a regular committee member?
eemom
Are you privy to Connolly’s medical records, MM?
Are you an expert in esophageal cancer?
Assuming no to both, your assumption that he is not fit for the job based on nothing more than his age and the fact that you knew a couple of people with that cancer is ageism, ableism, and worthless, irresponsible speculation.
Chris
@cmorenc:
This.
The less than subtle subtext is that AOC has been adopted by a certain type of Democrat as the standard-bearer for everything they consider wrong with the party: too left-wing (therefore extreme), too good at social media (therefore shallow), too loud, and too IdPol. They didn’t like her any better after her behavior last summer, and they want to make it absolutely clear that she can’t just be allowed to come in and trash the place, it isn’t her place.
The Audacity of Krope
Bravely standing against the tide of ageism sweeping over the party?
@mistermix.bsky.social
@strange visitor (from another planet):
Are you in her district? Curious if you have some examples of where her service falls short of what you think is the standard.
Ksmiami
@The Audacity of Krope: the built in brand is we support and raise up the little guy. We protect Americans from the parasitic wealth class that endangers Democracy. But that has been lost in the garbled messaging of DC consultants that stayed and preyed too long.
for the record, Id hire Siegel and Gale to do a brand Rehaul
The Audacity of Krope
Just not the little old folk, amirite?
Nelle
@brendancalling: Ego doesn’t seem to age at the same rate as the body. The profound belief that “Only I can do it” is not limited to the orange fool.
Dealing with denial of aging and consequences is no fun for a family…or a nation.
NotMax
Retirement is an unwritten chapter it’s up to the individual to write in pleasing or listless or dour prose.
narya
I want AOC as head of Oversight for Dems regardless of who else wants it–regardless of their age or health. I’ve seen her questioning, and I fucking APPROVE.
With regard to the general question, though, I think there are different ways of looking at the age/experience nexus. I’ve had another consulting gig fall into my lap–a place I used to work is Going Through Some Things, and I have experience with nearly everything they need to accomplish in the next year. I’m going to be a part-time consultant for them, and despite what they’re paying me, I’m hoping they get MORE than their money’s worth–which is possible because I have so much experience, only acquired through years of doing the work. And I think Congress can work that way, too. Some Congressional gigs benefit from someone having done the grinding work before/all along. However, if what’s needed is a new approach, I would defer to someone who is coming at the problem from a younger experience, if that makes sense. We are at the politics is NOT usual stage of the game, and we need people who can adapt and change, as well as the longer-experienced folks. If Connolly is bringing something needed to the table, figure out a power-sharing arrangement; if he’s not, then seniority isn’t a good reason to pick him, regardless of his age.
Chris
@The Audacity of Krope:
Publicly standing by her candidate 100% as long as he was in the running and, whatever her opinions may have been behind closed doors, keeping them the hell off the front-page. At a time when most of the party leaders who were in the news were doing so because they were hemorrhaging gossip to their pundit friends.
Kay
Agree 100% mistermix. I am also tired of being scolded about what I owe these people. They’re professionals and this is a career. I resent them putting themselves in the place of someone I have a personal relationship with.
Pelosi should set an example and step down. She is now actively getting in the way of a generation of younger people. MOVE OVER or get shoved. Take a goddamned hint.
If they would do this themselves with some grace and common sense people wouldn’t have to try to eject them.
cmorenc
@Miss Bianca:
The difference is that the sort of D Leadership position Connoly is up for is one where, although the indirect effects of any age or health-related deficits may cause a big drag on the party’s fortunes, nonetheless are mostly invisible to the public, whereas anything Biden did which appears to be detrimentally age-affected is amplified and prominently projected upon the public. I’m going to stop there, so as to avoid creating yet another opening to re-litigate Biden’s June debate performance (and whether that was a fair measure of his capabilities as President) – but Connoly won’t be subject to the sort of public scrutiny in the leadership role, except among activists and hard-core political junkies, diluted by hundreds of other important developments.
Nelle
@Aimai: I have to believe that there are other ways to serve others and your professional knowledge, even after retirement. There are clinics crying out for medical help. My husband can’t seem to stop working, but now does it for free, analyzing carbon sequestration impacts on groundwater and writing impact statements for environmental groups. It’s not necessarily all or nothing.
Suzanne
Here is one thing pushed by AOC that I just love: Americans deserve better sunscreen.
This is an example of a issue in which I think she was influenced, in part, by her age and race. There is much more awareness than there used to be among younger people, especially women, about sunscreen/sunblock as part of daily skincare. And beauty influencers of color have raised the issue of crappy sunscreens giving their darker skin a white, ghostly cast that is undesirable.
As someone with a family history of skin cancer….. this is a thing that matters to me, a lot. This is also an example of why having a diverse team, including in leadership positions, creates better government!
The Audacity of Krope
@Chris: So, to be clear, you approve of her actions?
Chris
@The Audacity of Krope:
Jesus, yes. When I say there’s a bunch of Democrats who’ve adopted her as a standard-bearer for everything they hate about the party, it’s not a compliment to those Democrats. Sorry if that wasn’t clear in the original post.
UncleEbeneezer
Are we gonna get umpteen posts about how AOC needs to improve her messaging to win more votes? I kid…
I have a really hard time squaring all this outrage with the general liberal principles of not punishing people for having cancer. This is exactly the same mentality that employers use to discriminate against people with pre-existing conditions or who are just older, all the time. If there are legit problems with replacing Connolly if his health deteriorates, then I think his health is a more reasonable concern. I haven’t read anything suggesting this is an RBG jeopardizing a life-long, SCOTUS seat-level concern.
That said I think AOC would be great in the position so I won’t be mad at all if she manages to win.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Kay:
This is an important point. Don’t fall in love with a politician. If AOC starts fucking up, welp, she shouldn’t run the committee or advance in leadership. Right now, she and a lot of the new members (Jasmine Crockett, Maxwell Frost, etc.) are more energetic, effective spokespeople for the party, so I want to see more of them. They happen to be younger, so what? If there are older people who can be as effective, I don’t give a shit about their age. Just do the fucking job, and do it well.
Sure Lurkalot
@Aimai: I wanted to let you know how heartening and heartbreaking your comment is. It is always good to be reminded that one’s choices affect other people, certainly more in caregiving roles like yours and MM’s father but other ones as well.
In the last thread, Suzanne brought up how many people in her profession of architecture wrapped their being into their profession and have cultivated no other paths for themselves, so they plug away, can’t move on or aside for the good of their companies or themselves or their families.
From experience, it’s not always easy to retire after decades of work, it’s an adjustment, there’s both sadness and loss as well as freedom and joy. But especially when you’ve dedicated your life to helping others heal and move forward.
Best of luck to you going forward.
The Audacity of Krope
@Chris: I mean it was a little ambiguous, but I recognize you a little so I was pretty sure I knew.
Still, no harm in provoking one extra affirmation in AOC’s favor.
Suzanne
@Kay:
Thank you.
We don’t owe any of them anything. We vote for them to forward, ultimately, our interests, not theirs. OTOH, they owe us the best possible chance to win elections and to forward those interests. They get paid very well and the worst thing that happens to them is that they lose elections and go back to being constituents.
I deeply admire Nancy Smash, but it’s time.
Starfish
@eemom: I think that he pointed out that he had a relative with this cancer so he knows more than most. I also have a neurologist friend who was pissed at John McCain because that diagnosis meant you got less than two years. The final vote that McCain took helped Democrats, but he probably should have stepped down.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@@mistermix.bsky.social: maan, for an (allegedly) real smart guy you miss the forest for the trees. CROWELY’S people were really hard to get on the phone. AOC’s team had a VERY low bar to clear.
…and no, i’m not in her district. my rep WAS nadler, then cuomo’s idiot judge fucked up the redistricting, then goldman, now clarke.
WereBear
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be cool with people stepping down and back regarding their health. Treatment is never a walk in the park and at 77 can he make these decisions himself?
Is this FDR working himself to death to save the country? Because okay. But really, this is getting silly. As a humanitarian gesture people have to stop acting like they have no biological constraints, because we do.
Because — and I’ll be blunt here, he seems like a white man from a place and an era and I have been hurt by bone-stupid-Ego-driven decisions that such people make.
Tell me he’s the right one for this demanding job that requires outreach to all kinds of people.
It would make me happy,
Ksmiami
The older Dems have let us down by not recognizing the war we are in vs the comity they crave. My god, the GOP are fascist monsters and we need to take a scythe and a nuke to fight back.
Kay
My PCP retired because he no longer had the energy to do that incredibly demanding job.
I suppose he could have told me I owed him a lifelong commitment but he wasn’t a crazy person so he didn’t. For professionals, the patient or client comes FIRST. No exceptions.
The Audacity of Krope
No one is saying you owe anyone shit. As a matter of maintaining a good culture, I don’t like these arguments being presented strictly as a matter of age.
Like I said to MM upthread, maybe the fundraising is a better angle to be working.
Baud
Go Quakers!
Baud
The Audacity of Krope
Only some older Dems. This line of argument is doubling down on their mistakes.
Miss Bianca
@cmorenc: Understood, but larger point still stands: guy that is both old AND likely to be going through cancer treatments which will undoubtedly impact his ability to do his job is going to get a pass on all that because he won’t be in as public-facing a role as POTUS.
I mean, sure, yeah, I *guess* that’s OK. It doesn’t *look* OK to me, but what the hell do I know.
Melancholy Jaques
@Ksmiami:
I want new faces & new voices, but our party does not need a complete redesign or redefining brand overhaul. That’s overreaction to an election loss.
eemom
@Starfish:
JFC. Having a relative with a cancer is a qualification to opine on the condition/abilities of a total stranger with that cancer?? When you’re not even a fucking doctor??
I can’t even, as the kids used to say.
Melancholy Jaques
@Old School:
The ranking member is the one who will get on TV as the spokesperson for the Democratic members of the committee and the party generally.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@strange visitor (from another planet):
So you aren’t in her district but yet you think her constituent service is somehow lesser or should be judged differently because the former guy’s service was nonexistent? I still don’t get your point.
It is entirely possible that her service is great even if there was a low bar to clear.
From what I’ve seen, and my experience doing constituent service myself, her’s is pretty damn good.
The Audacity of Krope
Not just one, several. They’ve needed an overhaul for years and have been treading water on being one of the two parties, just like the Republicans.
That said; the crueler, more calculating vision a lot of people seem to have in mind for Democrats is not to my liking.
Kay
@Ksmiami:
Its more than that. They’re ambitious. They want to move into leadership. You do not keep good people by STYMYING their careers!
Christ almighty the difference between AOC and this guy is 30 years. We missed an entire generation prior to AOC. There’s a whole 50’s 60’s cohort we passed over.
WereBear
@Melancholy Jaques: And there we have it.
NotMax
@Kay
Mom’s internist sent her a letter announcing his retirement. In it he recommended her to a group practice affiliated with a very nearby hospital.
She asked me if she should go with that or try to seek out a new private practitioner. Response was along the lines of “you trusted him for your medical issues for decades, why not also trust him on this?'”
Chris
@WereBear:
FDR is actually a case in point of why I don’t actually care much about the age thing per se.
In this case, it’s more that, as I said, I get a real whiff of “AOC needs to be put in her place” from the whole effort, especially because the appearance of picking an Old White Guy just a few months after forcing the other Old White Guy off the ticket specifically because he was an Old White Guy is so blatant it’s hard to believe it’s anything but intentional.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@eemom:
As I posted in the comments last night, American Cancer Society says that the five-year survival rate for esophageal cancer is 22%. That’s all stages, but also all ages. We don’t know Connolly’s stage or general health, but given that five-year number, I sure don’t see what’s wrong about asking whether he’s up for the job given his diagnosis.
The Audacity of Krope
@Kay: Raskin, the prior ranking D on oversight, was between Connolly and AOC’s age, yes?
Old School
@Melancholy Jaques:
Fair enough.
The position has been filled by Jamie Raskin in the current congress. I hope someone with a cancer diagnosis can be as effective as Raskin was.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Katie Porter comes to mind as a recent example in that regard.
Even bigger example, John Edwards. I still have a campaign mug and use it as a reminder of the pitfalls of proverbially falling in love with a politician.
Suzanne
@Kay:
This is also been an issue in my profession: lack of upward movement for those at mid-career and bad succession planning has left some firms in a bad position. The leadership (usually older white guys) wants to hang on, there’s a cohort of junior staff…. and then there’s a ton of turnover in the middle. And those are the people who are actually doing the day-to-day work. Some firms are failing because they didn’t do this well.
The Audacity of Krope
@Old School: Raskin was performing the job with cancer.
Jeffro
this right here
@mistermix.bsky.social
@The Audacity of Krope:
He was performing his job as Rep, but he took over ranking in Judiciary after he finished treatment and is in remission. The type of Lymphoma he had has a 65% five-year survival rate, and Raskin is 12 years younger than Connolly.
Anyway, doesn’t matter, AOC lost bigly, seniority won.
eemom
Also trying to reconcile this witch hunt against the old guy that St. Pelosi favors with the pathological adoration of her that is one of the top five Rules of Groupthink in this place.
And her own backstabbing of the other old guy both in July and immediately after the election.
The cognitive dissonance is dizzying.
Elizabelle
Connolly was my congresscritter for many years, and he is a very good guy. He’s not in the news much, although two of his aides were injured in an attack by a whackjob with a baseball bat last year.
All that said, big picture is: that Oversight seat could very well become available again in a few months.
Happy that AOC ran for it, and she has patience and tenacity. Will not burn any bridges.
lowtechcyclist
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
And the rebuttal is, she’s in a safe district, she can afford to devote the time to her real job, rather than spending afternoons dialing for dollars.
But that’s true for a solid majority of House Democrats. 128 House Dems are in districts with a Cook PVI of D+10 or better. But few of them are doing the work the way AOC is. More than there used to be, thank goodness. But she and a handful of others who take the time to know enough to ask good questions are still the exceptions.
kindness
God Bless Nancy Pelosi but she has to know the seniority system has hurt Democrats in the past. Senators Leahy & then Durbin leading the Judiciary Committee cost us untold judges in red America (Blue Slip tradition). Nancy knows AOC would be better but is so wedded to the old system she fights for Connelly. Don’t go out like DiFi Nancy. Please.
Miss Bianca
@Chris: Yes, thanks, that’s what it seems like to me as well, I just couldn’t put my finger on how to express it.
Kay
@Suzanne:
Why stick around? Go run for a state office. There’s no room for advancement in this Party at the federal level. Didn’t rising star Spanberger do just that? They should all leave.
The Audacity of Krope
Because people are thinking about this like a game with no consequences for pushing strategy to the limit instead of life, with lives involved.
The Audacity of Krope
We should be more focused on what we can do in and for states, rather than the federal government anyway.
Kay
@kindness:
I thought she’d go last cycle. I’m disappointed. Another egomaniac who can’t let go of power.
Public Service. This ain’t it.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@@mistermix.bsky.social: yeah, you clearly don’t get my point.
if you can’t get your rep or his people on the line, what’s the fucking point of having him? replace him. with a fucking inanimate carbon rod if the rod has a team who will pick up the phone and do their jobs.
and i mean, sure. go all in on connolly being unfit. never mind that nancy (caucus) SMASH just used her influence as (not) party leader to stab AOC in the back and keep her from the job she could do with aplomb.
any cries for pelosi to GTFO on the bounce? not only has she been SO fucking wrong over the last year or so, she’s fucking up on the TV and all you folks seem to think that’s the cardinal fucking sin, looking bad on TV.
eemom
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
You absolutely have not “asked whether he’s up for the job.” You have affirmatively assumed he is not.
Last night, you went so far as to sneer at him for not wanting to “spend more time with family and friends.”
Professor Bigfoot
@Chief Oshkosh: Indeed, but that’s another problem.
If the majority of the caucus is that corrupted, we’re fucked anyway— and I simply do not believe that.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@eemom: it boggles the fucking mind.
gene108
Seniority is its own reward in Congress. The way the legislature has been run rewards seniority over pretty much everything except fundraising.
I doubt the gerontocracy atop the Democratic Party understands that any likely Democratic voter, ie younger voters, want to see younger leadership across the party.
70+ and 80+ year olds running things does very little to reassure voters that D’s “get it”.
Edit: For some people with non-physically demanding jobs, work is what keeps them alive, even into their 70’s and 80’s. If they stop working, they lose the will to live.
hrprogressive
Dear AOC,
Start your own party.
Love,
Progressive Millennial Done With the Gerentocracy that is the National Democratic Party.
Fuck them.
Pie me if you don’t like it. I won’t be arguing about it.
kindness
@Kay: Wait a sec. Nancy raises more money for the House Democratic party than any other member of the House. Nancy is old but there is a reason she’s still important within the party. I’m on your side wrt AOC taking this committee, but money does talk. Don’t blame me. The Supreme Court got Citizen’s United all wrong. Next Democratic President & Senate, we need a 13 member SCOTUS
@strange visitor (from another planet): kinda exteme, no? Maybe a tad less caffiene.
BellyCat
In our flavor of politics, is it an open question which yields more results: connectivity or energy?
Power rules all, and it’s a helluva drug
The Audacity of Krope
We’ll see about that.
So should ageism be a core principle of this new Party AOC is to found? Seems she didn’t get the memo.
Trollhattan
Dear lord this is some kind of peak clustersuck: Elon Musk and Nigel Farage.
Farage comes across as more sanctimonious than any Republican I can name which, when I think about it, is some kind of special achievement.
WereBear
I guess that once again we have to advance one funeral at a time.
Because our values are skewed to reward money and power and attention and few will give it up willingly.
But they shouldn’t cling because they have nothing else. There are ways to contribute and not compete.
Kay
Debbie Stabenow in MI. Didn’t wait to be wheeled out of there.
We had the talented Elissa Slotkin in the House and now she’s a Senator. See how beautifully this works when people have normal sized egos and understand that yes, indeed, they are replaceable?
Miss Bianca
@hrprogressive: if possible, that’s an even *stupider* take on current events than your usual. “Dear younger Democrats: commit career suicide, because reasons.”
sentient ai from the future
@eemom: you have finally given me an excuse to learn how the pie filter works. thanks!
stinger
@Melancholy Jaques:
And an extremely narrow loss, at that.
Baud
Kay
@kindness:
And when she’s gone the second biggest fundraiser will be the first.
Bring ’em up! How long are people supposed to wait for these people to retire?
No one admires Nancy Pelosi like I do but I guarantee if she insists on staying past impairment I’ll abandon her. She’s a pro. If she lets ego get in the way of common sense I’ll no longer admire her.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@kindness: just hunting for consistency from the cheerleaders for the crowd that ran biden out of town on a rail.
pelosi’s gotta go, right? she’s repeatedly fucking up. on a national stage
eta- i see you’re down with the yeet. let’s see who else jumps aboard ss consistency.
Melancholy Jaques
@Kay:
I’d add another thing. Because she is not in leadership, the political media tend to treat AOC and everything she says and does like fringe, barely within the bounds of acceptable political thought. If she had a higher position, it would give her more weight in the discourse.
And we should probably remind ourselves that ranking member on the Oversight Committee isn’t all that high up in the leadership.
eclare
@Trollhattan:
He deserves to have milkshakes, or worse, thrown at him wherever he goes.
VFX Lurker
Two opposing views:
Ksmiami
@Kay: the old Guard needs to take a hint.
cw moss
@@mistermix.bsky.social: all good stuff. But she can still be on oversight even if she’s not chair. I very much doubt she fully expected to win this particular fight at this particular time but she’s laying down markers for the future. Connolly’s health situation may take care of itself. (Sorry -morbid. I’m a veteran of family cancer: sister from pancreatic, mother and aunt from ovarian all within 3 years.) We don’t know how many Connolly votes were of the variety “he might not be able to work the entire term with his health, but I don’t want to humiliate the guy.” I suspect more than a few. AOC is an excellent politician and she fully understands the system she’s part of. If we’re lucky she’ll be in Congress for many more terms.
eclare
@Kay:
“The graveyard is full of indispensable men.”
Charles de Gaulle
Kay
@Melancholy Jaques:
We are a Party who had to wheel in a Senator to vote on Obama’s agenda. We almost didn’t pass the ACA because an ancient Senator died and was replaced by a Republican in a fluke election. We had a SCOTUS Justice who refused to allow Obama to select her replacement.
Enough. This is not public service. It’s self serving entitlement.
cw moss
@strange visitor (from another planet): Crowley dug his own grave in part by thinking he was safe despite having shit constituent service. He fell from sort of a variation on the Al Ullman problem: what have you done for me LATELY? Also AOC is a gifted politician so she might have won that primary over Crowley regardless of anything different he might have done.
Chris
@eclare:
Georges Clemenceau, actually.
TBone
Maybe it’s just me, but I’m a huge believer in time off when sick, so that full attention may be focused on recovery/healing and then, and only then, a return to occupation. I wish we ALL had paid Family/Medical leave. I guess my lazy, pansy ass is too civilized. They called me crazy. You know, “crazy white women’s disease” (heard when boss saw fibromyalgia diagnosis that wasn’t fibromyalgia, it was Lyme).
VFX Lurker
Californian here. Dianne Feinstein’s final term spared us Senator Kevin de Leon, who later shamed himself on LA City Council.
You’re welcome.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@cw moss: agreed. but he definitely took his eyes off the ball. he wanted a promotion and was focused outwards (and upwards) instead of on the street.
WaterGirl
@eemom: This may be simple payback – it seems quite possible that Pelosi didn’t like AOC speaking out for Biden in July and daring to oppose what Pelosi was doing.
Payback’s a bitch, and Pelosi just flexed her muscles.
I admired Pelosi for stepping down from leadership, and for staying in as a Representative after she did so. But Pelosi hasn’t covered herself in glory this past year, and I am ready to see her go.
Funny how fast we can go from giving someone the benefit of the doubt to giving that person what I call the NEGATIVE benefit of the doubt.
KatKapCC
@VFX Lurker: That take on AOC is condescending and sexist as fuck. Acting like all she offers is “social media popularity”? He might as well pat her on the head and tell the silly little girl to go back to playing with Barbies.
tam1MI
The double whammy of the 2004 and 2010 elections had the effect of taking out an entire generation of elected Dems.
strange visitor (from another planet)
@WaterGirl:
if pelosi is “flexing her muscles” against someone who “dared to oppose” her, then she HASN’T stepped down from leadership, despite what everyone says.
yeah. she’s covered herself in something this past year. time for her to jet.
cw moss
@Melancholy Jaques: reporters with mics will not turn and run from AOC if they see Connolly down the hall.
eclare
@Chris:
Thanks!
WaterGirl
@strange visitor (from another planet): Yes, I should have said “official” leadership or “leadership position”.
I find myself wondering what our Minority Leader thinks of Pelosi’s last 6 months.
Trivia Man
@Dragon64: summed up as FYIGM to be blunt. The choice is not “best for the party” vs “best for me and my immediate neighbors”. Think long term and accept that better for the party + 80% as good for me.
eclare
@WaterGirl:
He loves Biggie. I’m guessing some variation of “never get high on your own supply.”
Jeffro
.
(deleted)
The Audacity of Krope
This is the best argument for AOC as ranking member I’ve seen yet. Best to put some weight behind the voice that will get the camera time instead of feeding the perception that voice is fringe in instances like this where she is most definitely not fringe.
eemom
@WaterGirl:
I think Pelosi’s grudge against AOC goes back farther than that, to when AOC was first a rising star however many years ago it was. She didn’t cover herself in glory then either, and she has indeed showed her ass this year.
As noted, I’ve never gotten the idolization of her here.
Kay
@tam1MI:
Maybe we should celebrate reasonable people like Stabenow instead of doing this “oh, but we OWE them lifetime positions!”
Im just grateful that old Doctor Sauber didn’t decide that his “right” to treat patients trumped my right to competent care. That’s all “professional” really means – we’re given discretion to police ourselves. That shouldn’t be abused.
Captain C
I wonder how much of Pelosi pushing Connolly over AOC was due to donor pressure, or at least ‘conversations.’
Kay
I have a tiny crush on the Madison police chief. I’m too old for him! Cradle robbing.
Manyakitty
@Miss Bianca: this, all day long.
The Audacity of Krope
Who said that?
Maybe if we want change in our leadership, we do it the right way; with votes and phonecalls, not barbarous cruelty.
tam1MI
Yes. She had no problems running Biden out of office on a rail because of age, let’s see how she likes when she gets pitched over the side for the same reason.
Kay
He is not taking questions at the conclusion of this press conference. Sadly – my bf is a busy man.
Manyakitty
@Chris: this earned her a lot of credibility with me.
Captain C
@brendancalling:
Or if they’re like me, to Amsterdam, dividing their time between museums, canal walks, poffertje houses, and coffeeshops.
Captain C
@The Audacity of Krope:
Esophageal cancer takes a lot of one’s time and attention. Probably enough to detract from one’s committee work, especially if they’re a leader or ranking member.
Geminid
@tam1MI: There were aot of capable 30 and 40-something Representatives in Ocasio-Cortez’s class of 2018. Two of them, Andy Kim and Elissa Slotkin, will move up to the Senate next year, but there were many more like Joe Neguse, Abigail Spanberger, Sharice Davids and Lauren Underwood. That was a very talented and relatively young class.
Another Scott
APNews.com:
(Emphasis added.)
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Aimai
@Betty Cracker: Thanks Betty, I am thinking of you, as well!
@mistermix.bsky.social
Martin Longman (BooMan) has a good post on this with some background comparing the Democratic and Republican approach to seniority and committee chairs. It’s a balanced post, here’s the bit on the downside of the D’s way of doing things:
Chris
@Manyakitty:
Same. I’ve always liked her as a voice for the progressive wing of the party. It wasn’t until this summer that I was like “screw the progressive wing, she’s leadership material for the party, full stop.”
cain
@Baud:
Time is on her side. She’s just 35 years old.
Manyakitty
@Chris: she’s really grown into the position. Looking forward to her next step.
Gin & Tonic
I’m not very smart, so maybe somebody can explain: how does shitting on Democrats every day help us win the next election?
VFX Lurker
I was nodding along until I realized you meant Pelosi.
AOC has immense political talent, but she’s also made mistakes because of her inexperience. She was one of only six House Democrats to vote against broadband access and clean water in 2021, for example.
AOC has made fewer and fewer mistakes over time, though.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: I can’t help you there.
The Audacity of Krope
@Gin & Tonic: More like availing on Democrats to do better.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Another Scott: Some context from the Hill:
Scott, the current Ag ranking member, has health, mobility issues and wouldn’t go to an interview session the CBC was hosting for candidates for committee posts.
Costa, next in line, is a Blue Dog.
Craig won a D+1 district. So a fighter.
The Thin Black Duke
I don’t know how you square the circle of putting younger Democrats in office to connect with a younger electorate when Democrats consistently and stubbornly refuse to do it.
Aussie Sheila
Everything Kay said on this thread.
FFS!
I happen to have seen Connolly on some cable show earlier this year. Definitely replacement level vibes. Nice guy. No world beater.
No one is ‘owed’ a longer than normal career. No one. Particularly public servants. As for raising money, Speaker emeritus Pelosi can just as well do that from home. Not from an elected Office she should have left already.
Another Scott
@WereBear: Connolly is 74.
(AOC is 35.)
(Pelosi is 84.)
Best wishes,
Scott.
The Audacity of Krope
@Aussie Sheila: If y’all don’t like who Congressional Democrats pick for leadership roles, run for Congress. Anyone.
Glory b
@Chief Oshkosh: Black people are the base of the party.
Have you checked with any of them?
eemom
@cain:
Hell, maybe she even knows that. Maybe that’s why she’s not one to shit on the olds.
Glory b
@The Thin Black Duke: AOC is already in office and, according to people here, already doing a great job of that!
I doubt many disconnected young people are going to start watching CSPAN for the committee hearings.
John S.
@Another Scott:
“Younger” is doing some pretty heavy lifting in that paragraph.
But it is good to see that there are some older Gen Xers taking over. As someone pointed out above, that cohort pretty much got skipped over in politics.
The Audacity of Krope
The smarter ones will choose that at certain times, tailored to their interests, over cable news.
PatD
No one should be fooled that Democrats, including Pelosi, who pushed for Connolly believe him to be more effective or competent. They don’t want AOC to be in a leadership position.
PatD
@The Audacity of Krope: the problem is not one of age. It’s one of effectiveness. The Dem Oversight committee should be focused on drawing contrasts, publicizing corruption, and dragging down Republicans at every opportunity. It’s a media job and not one Connolly is suited for.
Geminid
@The Audacity of Krope: Raskin was made Ranking Member in December of 2022 despite Connolly’s seniority over him. Connolly apparently went along with the move at the time, but he does not view Ocasio-Cortez in the same light now as he did Raskin, even though Raskin had been in Congress only since 2016. Ocasio-Cortez arrived in 2018.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@cw moss:
That’s my take. This is just a blip if her Congressional career continues to form.
I also think Dem’s in general look to see how young Congress people handle something like this, as in all they gonna go all Katie Porter on the issue or accept it for what it is, typical intraparty workings, and move on.
Plus, when AOC really needs to be the head of something is when the Dems control the House, otherwise, whatever limelight she’ll get will be beyond minimal.
Kay
@Aussie Sheila:
No, they have to stay forever until they literally die in office, because any less than that is unimaginably cruel to these wildly powerful, extremely ambitious people.
Theyre going to get age limits and like the SCOTUS, they will have earned the loss of discretion on when they retire, because they abused the privilege.
Dont take advantage of people, but if you do expect to get checked.
Kayla Rudbek
@tam1MI: and my GenX age group is small in numbers and skewed Republican (thanks to Reagan, Alex Keaton character, and many of the gay and bi men dying from AIDS). So there’s a missing generation of Democratic politicians between the old guard and the younger up and comers.
Geminid
It seems to me that one of the Ranking Member’s most important jobs is negotiating with the Committee Chairman over committee procedure and subject matter. At least, Jaime Raskin seemed to put time and effort into that function.
I’m not sure how this factor fits into the Connolly vs. Ocasio-Cortez debate but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Quinerly
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Thanks for these posts and your comments.
Quinerly
@Suzanne:
And, I deeply admire Biden but he should have stepped aside after the 2022 midterms.
Aussie Sheila
@Kay:
There is a compulsory retirement age for judges in Australia and it is 70 yrs old. I very much approve of this, and I don’t believe it’s impossible for political parties to ensure that no candidate for election will be accepted after the age of 65.
In this country a politician of that age is either PM or in such a safe seat that s/he is difficult for ambitious Party members to overturn. But overturned they usually are. By their own Party machines. Our current PM is 60. In my view he has one more term in him, and then he should go. If he loses, he should go then toot sweet.
Jeffg166
At age 84 having undergone hip replacement surgery in Germany, Nancy Pelosi is more or less stuck in Europe until she can fly home. From what I’ve read that could take three months. Perhaps a billionaire might be willing to ferry across the Atlantic on their yacht.
It would be better if she announced her retirement now to allow for a special election to be held within the month.
Quinerly
@Kay:
I need to check this. I think Republicans (House) have a 6 year limit on committee leadership. (Can’t serve in a committee leadership position more than 3 terms in a row). Could be wrong. Each party can make their on rules on this sort of thing.
Wilbur Mills, back when Arkansas elected Dems, chaired Ways and Means for close to 20 years. Of course, that’s when the Dems always controlled the House. No room for anyone to move up until a Tidal Basin, a stripper, and a rehab center retired him.
A limit on years in leadership positions would help. Dems should do it.
Aussie Sheila
@Aussie Sheila:
I forgot to mention. The judicial retirement age is a Constitutional provision. S72 of the Australian Constitution.
Darkrose
@VFX Lurker: Other Californian here. If DiFi hadn’t run that last time, knowing she would be 90 and was already in poor health, maybe someone other than De Leon would have run against her. And while he was an unmitigated asshole, her performance as Judiciary chair was embarrassing and did nothing to help her constituents. Seeing her wheeled into the Senate when she was clearly unwell was heartbreaking for me as someone who’d always admired her.
dr. luba
I am 66 1/2. Many of m y friends (internists, radiologists) are working (or planning to work) into their 70s. I had planned to do so myself, but can’t really physically do so. My knees have given out, and sometimes obstetricians need to move fast and stand for long periods of time.
Mentally, I am fine, and on top of my game. But it’s not enough in my profession.
I know a few fellow OB/GYNs who’ve worked into their 70s–but they tend to do office work, not hospital obstetrics. So I am retired….and looking forward to knee and shoulder surgery in my “golden years.” What joy.
Omnes Omnibus
AOC seems to be handling this situation better than most people here. She will be in leadership soon.
FWIW no one here is arguing that anyone is owed a position for life. Perhaps people should knock it off with that particular strawman.
Manyakitty
@Omnes Omnibus: that sounds entirely too reasonable.
Ruckus
@dr. luba:
I’m almost a decade older than you and I retired well into 72 yrs old.
Getting old is a good thing, getting old at a too rapid rate is not. What I wonder is are people retiring later because so much of work isn’t as physical as it used to be? I’ve worked at physical jobs since I was 12-13 yrs old, and much of the physical side has been replaced by machines run by computers, starting about 45 yrs ago. Even office work has changed, a keyboard is far easier to use than a manual typewriter – and can show you mistakes instantly. Look what we are doing here.
Nettoyeur
Jamie Raskin is a colon cancer survivor and during last few years has been treated for a type of lymphoma that has 60% 5 year survival. He was very active as ranking member in last congress. To be sure esophageal cancer has poorer survival statistics…
daveNYC
Esophageal cancer is a nasty one, even by cancer standards, and the treatment is not likely to be doing wonders for his ability to do the job due to the wear and tear that comes with chemo, plus whatever impact the cancer itself is going to have on his speaking ability.
This is a major issue, since the Republicans will be in control and will likely be dredging up the dumbest crap for their scandal hunts, and having an energetic and telegenic leader who can run an aggressive, energetic defence in a leadership role on the committee would be great. Unfortunately the Democrats seem to have voted for the opposite to happen.