Seems like this has worked in the past, let’s keep it going! Democrats’ playbook to beat Republicans in 2 years: work with them now:
Democrats, who are already planning their comeback after being swept out of power in Washington last month, have said they’ll oppose President-elect Donald Trump and his allies when their values collide but are open to cooperation on a range of issues, including immigration, federal spending and entitlements. […]
“This is how these battleground Democrats are anyway, but I think it will manifest itself in, ‘Take me up on this offer, let’s go.’ And if you don’t, then, ‘OK, I can work with that, too,'” said one Democratic strategist working on House races. “I think for a battleground Democrat, it’s a win-win approach. You have the possibility of working on a bill and a law which you can say, ‘I delivered,’ or you create receipts to bring back to voters to say, ‘I kept on trying.'” […]
“The opportunity to work in a bipartisan way, to increase your own bipartisan credentials becomes very important,” said Dan Sena, the executive director of House Democrats’ campaign arm in 2018. “I just think it’s important at large for the caucus to pay attention to the fact that ultimately, in two years from now, the Republican trifecta is going to get a thumb up or a thumb down from the country, and that’s ultimately going to dictate who has control of House.”
“If I were the Democrats at large,” Sena added, “I would be pretty aggressive in holding the Republicans and then the Trump administration accountable.”
How can you expect voters to interpret the whipsaw from claims that Republicans want fascist government, to “we’re going to aggressively work with these guys”? How do you hold them accountable when the bills you’re going to pass on a bipartisan basis are almost certain to have poison in them for the people that we’ve said we want to protect? I don’t get it. This is especially true in the face of news like Trump planning to go after progressive non-profits, ICE already feeling its oats by deporting a woman with newborn twins (born in the US), and Bobby Polio Jr ready to ban all vaccines.
Ro Khanna is again quoted in the piece, and the reason why he’s quoted is because there’s a lot of silence on the Democratic side and he’s ready to fill the media vacuum. For example, the only example of pushback on Bobby Polio that I’ve found is Elizabeth Warren. Good for her.
The great Aimee Mann again has some wisdom for Democrats mentioned in this piece: it’s not going to stop until you wise up.
Omnes Omnibus
Moving up most of what I said in a thread below: We can have an effect. Call your Dem Reps and Senators. Remember, they have been hearing what even people here have been saying, that these things are what the American people voted for. Let them know that a lot of us aren’t okay with that. The other option is to throw up our hands and say we’re fucked.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Omnes Omnibus: Agree 100%.
JPL
Geez I forgot that the republicans compromised on issues they agreed with. I forgot about them passing the immigration bill.
Might be time to let Sen. Ossoff know that compromise is not a winning issue.
Barbara
Maybe the faux pas was trying to appeal to voters based on how bad the other side would be if elected. Or maybe it’s faulty to think that consistency is a value in and of itself.
And just because I am feeling really annoyed by this incessant drum beat that Democrats have not found the perfect public tone and positioning to respond to the incoming wrecking ball, maybe, just maybe trying to run on “democracy” writ large was an inherently iffy strategy when so much backroom dealing led to the ultimate nomination of your own candidate.
Of course, we should continue to oppose the things we always oppose but no matter how obnoxious the situation, you are rarely better off refusing to deal with it as it is.
Shakti
@Omnes Omnibus: None of my reps are Dems.
And we know reps don’t care about what you say unless you live in their district. Then they’ll pretend to care.
Which Dem could I possibly contact to register my disapproval?
Should I tell my gunfluencer rep that she needs to reach across the aisle b/c she sucks at getting money for her district?
Would that even matter?
hrprogressive
The modern Democratic Party is obsessed with bipartisanship to the point that, you watch, you’re gonna have Pelosi or Schumer or Durbin or insert swingy Democrat here going “Gee, yeah, those camps are bad, but think of all the jobs they will create and economic benefit to our district. I oppose putting people in camps, but I will bipartisanly support the camps because maybe The Bezos Post will write a thoughtful editorial about me. Please donate. James Carville will be hella sad if you don’t! #stopthecamps #bipartisancampbill”
Bupalos
I don’t understand how a kind of rote opposition is going to work either. I think a lot of people underestimate the degree to which we’ve gotten trapped as a party into being reflexive defenders of a status quo that simply has insufficient democratic support. Then tack on some vibes about people liking “fighters” and the knife and gunfight thing. It’s politically incoherent.
Omnes Omnibus
@hrprogressive: Have you considered starting an effective, fighting left of center party? Obviously, you think the Dems are useless. Why don’t you do something about it?
Bugboy
This Ro Khanna character is getting on my last nerve, but the election is over. We lost. Please consider that this is nearly the inverse of the MAGA mentality that MAGA pols only represent MAGA voters.
My blood boils every time a member of the Chump Cult coughs up some fur ball about screwing the Democratic electorate, now that they are in office. Pols are elected to represent the entire electorate, whether we like the opposition/enemy or not.
Ask yourself: Do red state Democrats get elected to represent only Democrats? “I don’t like it either, but maybe we need our own fascist movement?” is not a recipe to undo the course we are on.
zhena gogolia
@Barbara: This is a good comment.
CaseyL
I often wonder if the Democratic Party is as tired of shoveling sand against the tide as we are:
1. The GOP comes into power, fucks everything up.
2. The Democrats come into power and spend 95% of their time in office fixing what the GOP fucked up, making little if any progress actually “forward.”
3. Voters reward Democrats by voting them out of office and letting the GOP fuck everything up again.
Over and over.
Maybe the Democrats are moving toward the Purity Progressive attitude of “Burn it all down; we’re not cleaning up after you anymore.”
I mean, I definitely feel that way. Burn it all down, assholes, and see where that leaves you.
hrprogressive
@Bupalos:
The modern Democratic Party is wholly disinterested in doing anything except protect the status quo that keeps them in wealth and power.
And a lot of voters saw thru the bullshit and asked “What have they done for us lately?” and determined the answer was “Jack Shit” so they stayed home.
A lot of people feel like the Democratic Party does not represent them, or fight for them, and it’s shit like this that’s hard to argue against.
Lapassionara
All I know is that Dems never go wrong when defending Social Security and Medicare. They should meet any attempt to weaken those programs with spines of steel.
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL: Where does that leave the rest of us? Where does it leave the children of the MAGAs? Unfortunately for that point of view, Thatcher was wrong. There is such a thing as society.
tam1MI
Here in Michigan, the elected Dems have gone from “disarray” to “open revolt and total anarchy”. The Manchinemas are coming out of the woodwork!
There are over 200 bills passed by the Senate that are pending in the House which are going to die thanks to this woman.
But wait, she has company! (This bit is from Gongwer News Service, which is pay walled).
So basically, Dems in Michigan are fucked and it is their own party doing the fucking. Remind me again why I bothered to vote for them.
Lee
@hrprogressive:
This seems correct. I mean, for f***ks sake, the whole AOC vs Connolly thing just cannot be topped even by the NYT Pitchbot.
“Gerry’s a young 74, cancer notwithstanding,” said Rep. Don Beyer (D-Va.), one of Connolly’s top allies.
Change? Appeal to the young? Fight? HELL NO.
Ten Bears
Not cool, you suckered me with maybe things will be different …
The Other Bob
@CaseyL:
We can stop by no longer helping rural/red areas with funding that their Republican Legislators oppose, such as transportation funding, support for rural hospitals, internet access, etc.
It seems to me Dems could learn about how to handle Trump from Mexico’s new President.
sentient ai from the future
@Omnes Omnibus: constant, impotent whining is a kind of action, no?
Omnes Omnibus
This is the same logic as deciding that all Congressional Dems sucked because of Manchin and Sinema.
Kay
Its just no one is going to vote or donate to this. “We worked with Republicans to raise the retirement age to 70” attracted no voter, ever.
If Trump were smart he’d let Democrats and Republican join hands to cut poor and middle class programs and then he’d veto the bill – say he could not in good conscience screw the American people like that. He’d be at 70% approval.
zhena gogolia
@sentient ai from the future: This whining is so tiresome.
The Other Bob
@tam1MI: The Dems in the Michigan State legislature got a lot done, including expanding rights for many people, but it is true that way too many things were left until the last minute, which happens no matter who is in power.
p.a.
It’s hard for Dems to change even after 2 generations of Rethug fuckery in part because of the respective bases.
The Rethug voter really is: gimme a cardboard box, curtain rod and sparrow as long as “they” don’t have ’em, and do/obstruct whatever necessary to get there.
The Dem voter (and this is part of Big Tent) is only in part “let it all burn: be like them, it’s the only way to get through to enough people to win elections”, there’s still (IMHO) a majority saying “try to shore up the house even as they take an axe to it. Try to protect our own.”
Scout211
Since this is an open thread, I am asking the ballon-juice hive mind about this “exclusive” report in the Wall Street Journal this morning.
Is this real or is this another disinformation campaign funneled through the WSJ? Anyone know?
Since I am one of those “elderly shut-ins” (Hi Steve in the ATL!) and am not that skilled in all things tech, I love my TP-Link router for many, many reasons. I was just about to upgrade to a new one but I wondered if I need to research another brand.
I am hoping that this is disinformation but would love other (more knowledgeable) jackals’ opinions.
I’ll be away from the internet for a few hours but I will be checking back to read any replies. Thanks in advance!
Old Man Shadow
We’re still a month away from Trump actually being able to do anything horrible, so maybe it’s not reasonable to expect rampant opposition and outrage to things that do not exist yet and maybe will never exist.
We ran on progressive values and progressive achievements and lost the White House and Congress. The message many establishment Democrats will take away from that is that Americans don’t want those things. I expect the party to return more towards the conserva-Dem party of the nineties. I expect more Democrats to come out opposed to transrights to a degree.
We want a fiery opposition leader with the eloquence of Lincoln. I do not think we will get one.
We have been put in a place where we have been fighting to maintain a status quo that is untenable.
I do not think the country will punish Republicans even if they lead us into a major depression. Democrats may get elected to clean things up, but not in sufficient numbers to enact real structural changes needed and once the voters tire of the status quo, Democrats will be voted out again.
lowtechcyclist
@Omnes Omnibus:
Is there a way to contact a Dem Senator-Elect? We Marylanders have one, the future Sen. Alsobrooks, who will be replacing the retiring Sen. Cardin.
Kay
I’m willing to admit liberal policy is a minority position but its a minority position by a (relative) hair. This collapse by national Democrats leaves a shit load of voters politically homeless. Someone or some entity will pick us up. I dont really see 70 million Democratic voters converting to MAGA.
sentient ai from the future
@Scout211: upgrade your router? this is usually unnecessary. i used a linksys wrt54g for about a decade. current router was bought used like 6 years ago.
tam1MI
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m venting right now, I’m just so disgusted with the situation.
If I were a betting person I’d say Whitsett is going to dramatically cross the aisle any day now.
sentient ai from the future
@lowtechcyclist: not federally, until jan 3. already called congressional switchboard about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@lowtechcyclist: Is her campaign office still open? Otherwise, wait until Jan. 3.
Miss Bianca
Speaking of goosing our Senators on Things Political, can I ask Michigan peeps to do me a solid and contact Gary Peters’s office today and ask him to STOP JACKING AROUND the HR 8753 bill?? He’s holding it up for no good goddamn reason that I can tell.
A bit of background: HR 8753 would bestow or restore a unique ZIP code to 31 towns around the country. And why does this matter? Sales tax, baby. Sales tax from online sales that could be going to these towns is being siphoned off elsewhere, usually to a neighboring town. And with the taxation allergy that is currently the mood of the nation, oftentimes sales tax is the only income that these towns get to pave roads or tend to other infrastructure needs.
The mayor of one of my little local towns has been working for fucking YEARS to get its ZIP code restored. HR 8753 passed through the House (Lauren Boebert, of all people, sponsored it, in one of her rare acts of actual constituent service), it’s been co-sponsored by our current rep, Brittany Pettersen (D, CD-7), got to the Senate sponsored by Bennet, and now Peters is holding it up.
His Washington office # is (202) 224-6221. Below is some contact info and some more info. Please, please, light up his phone lines and email! Thank you.
Bugboy
@Scout211: THE premier growth industry in tech is wireless chips. So, in the rush to meet the demand for those hot items (because EVERYONE wants faster internet, right? Just hand wave away the fact that wired connections are almost always superior, we got chips to sell!), there’s a very good chance someone or something allowed merchandise with a back door to be sold in the States. How long did it take for DOD to figure out that Chinese drone components had similar back doors?
hrprogressive
@Lee:
There’s a reason I’m at the point where if AOC would start a younger progressive party, I’d join her.
I’m fucking done with the geriatrics.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: The collapse you are predicting hasn’t happened yet. The new Congress doesn’t take office until Jan. 3 and Biden remains president until Jan. 20. There are things people can do in the meantime to affect what Dems do.
Another Scott
@Barbara: +1
There was an election 5-6 weeks ago. We’re the party of respecting the results of elections and figuring out ways to make good things happen no matter what the results were.
We’re also the party of realism and recognizing that compromise is always part of the equation. Always.
Beating up on our side because they say things like “I’m disappointed but I respect the results of the election and will work to find common ground where I can” is counter-productive (IMHO, YMMV).
Like it or not, voters have decided who controls the White House for the next 4 years, the House for the next 2 years, and the Senate for at least the next 2 years. We have to recognize that reality and figure out ways to make the best of a bad situation.
(I think the same applies to Canada and Germany and Ukraine and Georgia and lots of other places, as well. Governments will have to find ways to deal with the reality of the DJT administration.)
My $0.02.
Best wishes,
Scott.
lowtechcyclist
@Old Man Shadow:
Back to the days when I was embarrassed to call myself a Democrat. The past four years have been a pleasant change from that. Four years of finally being goddamned proud to be a Democrat. I’m gonna miss that, if that’s what happens.
That would be horrible. If there’s one solid virtue we’ve got, it’s inclusion. I sure hope we don’t go back to the days of deciding which unpopular-with-the-right group we’re going to underbus this time. ETA: And yeah, trans persons look like the obvious candidate.
narya
I think we’re making a fundamental error when we act as though there’s only one Democratic entity: some reps and senators are reliable, on both the national and state levels, some are difficult (like Khanna, Manchinema, and this person in Michigan). Some states can take actions, because of their particular legislatures, that others cannot. There’s no one approach that is going to work in every case–but people like Ben Wikler have demonstrated that there ARE approaches that CAN work, over time. Do I wish that AOC had beaten Conoly? Yes, I do. Am I also glad she got as many votes as she did? Yup. And her attitude about it is instructive: we tried, we didn’t make it, we move on and work toward the good. And, on top of all of it, the new Congress isn’t even seated yet, so we don’t know for sure what fuckery they’re going to try. Yeah, we know there WILL be fuckery, but I do not have the energy to run around with my hair on fire right now. And why give away the game plan? (I hate blanket condemnation of “the democrats,” also too. )
Bill Arnold
@hrprogressive:
That is your version of events. Provide solid, convincing evidence that it is true, or at least probably true, or you are just making shit up.
Barbara
@Kay: It’s not that I think there is a lot of support for raising the age at which one receives full SS benefits to 70, I don’t, but I also think that it’s the kind of technical, actuarial change that washes over most people in such a way that it doesn’t even register. So long as they can start receiving SS benefits at 62 if they want to, I am not sure it really matters.
I get it — we need to differentiate ourselves as a party, but I don’t think that we really achieve that if we lock ourselves into a set of beliefs that might not really be true, or at least not of as much bedrock importance as we believe. So I would never suggest that Democrats advocate for a higher full-benefit attainment age, but I also would not rule out voting for it in exchange for an offsetting priority progressive provision.
Where Dems fail, in my view, is not holding out for the bargained for exchange. In my living memory, that started with Clinton negotiating NAFTA before locking in health care reform. Should have been the other way around.
Going after billionaires — the fact that they pay no taxes, trash safety net programs when they can’t profit from them, distort the political process, etc. etc. Yeah, that will probably yield more fruit.
Old Man Shadow
@lowtechcyclist: I don’t know if it will happen. I’m just guessing. Same as everyone else.
But we were pro-union, pro-worker, for equality and inclusion, and economically progressive and we lost everything. I think at least some faction of the party will decide that we need to be more pro-business and more socially conservative as a result. And a lot of the most vocal Dems in Congress right now seem to be signaling conciliation.
That could change in the future once Trump and the GOP start really hurting people.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I don’t know. This was on Blue sky this morning. Seems both centrists and progressives believe that inclusion is not the path forward.
Another Scott
@Shakti: Maybe write a letter to the editors of your local news outlets?
Even if they don’t listen, it’s important not to be silent.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Bupalos
@hrprogressive: This is excessive. The Democratic Party is a large, complex thing full of different angles on the core party values of increasing equality. Too much of it really does seem to act as if maintaining a status quo is both possible and desirable. Too much of it thinks Willy-nilly tearing down the status quo will lead to something better rather than worse.
Both ends of that spectrum seem to be taken with rhetoric about “fighting” and “enemies” that I see as primarily in service of online polarized discourse rather than advancing our political goals. The former fixates on the evils of the other party, the later on the evils of our own.
suzanne
Might I note that I am thrilled to see all the Aimee Mann love around here these days.
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh, I’ll call Marcy Kapturs office. I’m telling her I oppose the Democratic and Republican effort to allow Elon Musk to run this country.
I’ve opposed Democrats before. I opposed the Iraq war most of them voted for and I opposed Joe Biden’s assault on Palestinian civilians, including 20 thousand children.
I’ve seen them collapse before. But this for all the marbles. We can now watch feckless Democrats fuck around and find out.
They’ll always be a national liberal Party. There are about 90 million of us. It may just not be the Democrats.
Baud
@Old Man Shadow:
I had the same prediction two years ago – that Biden would be peak liberalism unless he was reelected (or Harris). We’ve been moving left for two decades with little voter gains to show for it. That state of things wasn’t going to last forever.
tam1MI
@Omnes Omnibus: Now that I have regained a bit of equilibrium, I can point out that the Dems were able to get a lot of their priorities funded in the recent spending deal the MAGAs are already howling in anger about. So they have not been completely useless.
kindness
I see too many parallels between the calls for strident purity on our side and the Freedom Caucus on Republicans side. It might feel good if you live in a safe blue district, but it won’t help the folk that have to have normies vote for them to win elections. I’m not saying give up and sell out. I’m saying fight for our side and values and work to make things better. Some times you can do that working with some of the Republicans out there. Not the Freedumb Caucus, certainly, but some of them.
Old School
@hrprogressive:
And if AOC remains a Democrat? Will you join her there?
KatKapCC
The fuck did the Bahamas do to deserve this?
Also: “Walker has no previous diplomatic experience or clear ties to the Bahamas.” ROFL like that matters in this administration. It’s actually a plus. You’re totally unqualified? YOU’RE HIRED!
Bugboy
@Miss Bianca: MOAR OF THIS. I recently started an account at the blue butterfly (did I ever mention I like bugs?) and have gotten a real education in “engagement”.
John S.
@Another Scott:
“I’m disappointed but I respect the results of the election and will work to find common ground where I can“ is not a sentiment that exists in a vacuum.
It’s that the Democrats ran on Republicans being fascists, and used the death of democracy as their rallying cry… and then fell back to “can’t we all just get along”. That cognitive whiplash is depressing the base.
Would it really be so hard for elected Democrats to just shut the fuck up about bipartisanship for one minute?
Geminid
@tam1MI: Seems to me your beef is with two Democratic legislators, not your state’s entire Democratic Party.
The solution here is not to fight against your party, it’s to fight with your party to win more legislative seats in the next cycle, so one or two bent legislators can’t do this next time. You can get rid of these specific sabateurs through primaries.
Shakti
@hrprogressive: AOC seems to care about voter outreach and education in a way a lot of national Democratic figures do not seem to.
Yes she was on Twitch and IG, but she talked about policy and not just to promote her brand (although there’s that too).
In contrast I’ve not heard shit from my gunfluencer rep on policy. Anywhere. And she’s on IG.
A lot of the national Democrats just make mouth noises on the Sunday morning talk shows. Or on tv.
Regardless of their actual effectiveness, being seen to care about voter outreach and education matters in terms of coalition building.
Honestly, being registered to a party only seems to matter if you have representation within the party you can influence with primaries and such. Otherwise? It’s yeah just pick the less bad general election option.
Baud
@John S.:
They are fascist. And they won. Either the American voter is ok with fascism or they ddon’t believe us when we call them fascist. If they didn’t believe us before the election, they’re not going to believe us now.
Bugboy
@Barbara: My take on this is that it’s of a piece with the widely misunderstood “life expectancy” framing, which doesn’t actually mean “people living longer” it is “we are not dying from the diseases we used to die from”. See also: the wealthy have excellent health care! Whodathunkit?
MomSense
If we zoom out and look at what is happening in our democracy, it is clear that Americans have only made significant, democracy and safety net expansions after times of trauma and war. We created the League of Nations after the horrors of WWI, United Nations after WWII, social security only after the horrors of the depression and not for everyone. Medicare and Medicaid were first called for by Truman in 45, again with the backdrop of WWII, but didn’t pass until 1965. The whole great society and Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts are really interesting to me because you can’t separate them from the context of both the Vietnam War and the best organizing by the civil rights movement that we have ever witnessed in this country. There are more examples, some I worked on personally.
Looking at modern electoral politics the pattern has been that Democrats only get elected when Republicans have fucked up so thoroughly and obviously that we are given a chance.
All this is a long way of saying that as a nation we keep reverting to the mean of our anti democratic, individualistic and fundamentally self interest driven values.
I don’t feel hopeless about the future, but I do think, as always, things have to get a lot worse before they get better.
I made a lot of phone calls including some messaging calls into other states. I’m holding off on my thoughts about what Democrats are signaling until I see more complete data. Sadly my hunch is that elected Dems are reacting to what we saw during the campaign that had us change tack to trying to peel off moderates and center right (for lack of better descriptors). If this hunch is correct it reinforces my general feeling that things need to get a lot worse before they get better. It’s not what I want to happen or to believe at all.
Baud
@Geminid:
“One bad apple spoils the whole barrel” is a special rule for Dems.
Kay
Now we know why it was all hands on deck to block AOC from Oversight. There’s not gonna be any oversight.
A grass roots effort to protect entitlements from Elon Musk and his Congressional enablers would probably be popular. I’ll join that. Issue campaigns are fun.
Bugboy
@KatKapCC: One of those “Black Jobs(tm)”?
Bupalos
@Old Man Shadow: I think you’re maybe thinking of this is terms of the last political era rather than the one we’re moving in to. Trump isn’t Romney. The apparently popular tariff idea is the most extreme “anti-business” idea to come around in a half century or more. And that says something about the nature of the era we’re moving in to.
daveNYC
@Kay: I could easily see Republicans and Democrats pulling a grand bargain with Social Security and Medicare (grandfathering a fair chunk of likely voters in, of course) just because that shit is catnip dipped in cocaine for far too many politicians.
rikyrah
Get thee ENTIRE PHUCK OUTTA HERE.
Bupalos
@Bugboy: For all the triumphalist laughing about it, we’d do well to meditate a bit on Trump’s “black jobs” maneuver and the fact that it ended up as a political winner for him and one that we cooperated with in spreading.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: This point seems to keep escaping people.
Everything was clearly laid out in the campaign. They chose the fascist.
rikyrah
@Bugboy:
BEEN on my last nerve
Outside of Secretary Pete, who always happens to clown them when he goes on Fox..
I don’t trust Democrats who regularly show up on Fox, .which Khanna does
zhena gogolia
@Bupalos: I don’t need to meditate too long on racism. It’s pretty clear.
Omnes Omnibus
Was it? What’s your proof? BTW saying he won isn’t a valid answer.
Shakti
@Another Scott: I’m not sure who reads the letters section. My local paper only publishes several times a week. And seems to get ignored by the actual public, if their recommendations and who actually wins office are anything to go by.
My paper profiled a Cuban psychologist who said she voted for Trump to protect children’s innocence. I guess miming blow jobs on stage at a political rally will accomplish that.
tam1MI
They wouldn’t stand up for their own fucking President. What made you think they were going to stand up for you?
kindness
@Kay: AOC only lost by 5 votes. Please don’t gloom and doom dialing up to 11.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Someone posted a YouGov poll on Blue sky that says that Trump’s only net favorable age group is 18-29.
Bupalos
@daveNYC: I don’t think Republicans are all that hot to chop social security or Medicare really… both those programs are fairly moderate as far as redistribution and don’t for the most part increase the desperation of the working poor. You can even argue that those programs increase the pressure on the working slave class by preferencing the old over the young. Medicaid and the ACA subsidies are where they’ll train their fire I think.
Bugboy
@rikyrah: Right. It’s not like he’s from a red state or even a red district, so what the hell is his game? Is he owned by Musk?
Baud
@Bugboy:
Silicon valley district
Old Man Shadow
@Bupalos: Voters don’t see it as anti-business though. Voters don’t even know what tariffs are. They trust that Trump being a businessman will be good for business.
Bugboy
@Baud: As I suspected. We need new writers.
Baud
Blue sky is reporting that the Gaetz ethics report will be released.
I blame Democrats.
p.a.
I’ve seen the 2-tiered benefit shit happen in union contracts. 1,2,3 contracts later, when the company comes after those grandfathered in, who is going to vote to strike to save benefits they won’t get? It would take an extraordinary person. Same w gubmint benefits.
Bupalos
@zhena gogolia: If we’re just going to class that as racism, we might want to think about how that kind of racism in this case ended up adding black and brown voters to Trump’s column and subtracting them from ours.
Racism can be pretty complicated as it turns out.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Oh, goodie, at least we’ll get some entertainment. (This is sarcasm, irony, before anyone gets angry.)
Another Scott
@Shakti: (To be clear, I’m not arguing with you – just taking your comment as a place to put this comment.)
Devil’s Advocate:
Gerry got around 125,000 more votes in November than AOC did in their House races. Since House districts are nominally the same size, what’s the reason for that? (I cannot find turnout percentages for some reason.) Her voter outreach does not (yet) seem to translate into increased numbers of actual Democratic votes.
To be clear – I like AOC. I also like Gerry.
My view is that people can have sensible reasons for not voting for her for Ranking Member. And the people who did not vote for her are not somehow our enemies, somehow thwarting the will of Democratic voters.
Others can have different views, of course.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
TBone
Deep breaths. In. Out.
I once was chastised, during a menopausal hot flash sweat meltdown at the office, by my employer who was over fifty feet away in his office. He called out, angrily, “Your breathing is bothering me!” When I reminded him that I was going through the Change of Life, he said “aren’t we all!” Haha mofo, ya got me there!
But breathe I must and will and, furthermore, bite me.
(Feel lucky that I’m here, we’re all here, and even dressed for the occasion is my point. We’ll get through it together.)
zhena gogolia
@Bupalos: Not that many. Let’s not blame the black and brown people for this. White people did it.
Chief Oshkosh
Vic Meyers has a 4-part series on Trump’s birth-right citizenship blather as being a red herring being used to support creation of a constitutional convention. Some of what’s discussed in this thread has parallels to his presentation. The link to the 4th part is below. Each part stands on its own. These are short, btw.
https://youtu.be/lD2yQl1roKE?si=E35P7sObf_SOGWpd
JiveTurkin
@KatKapCC: In a post on Truth Social announcing Walker as his pick, Trump said: “Herschel has spent decades serving as an Ambassador to our Nation’s youth, our men and women in the Military, and athletes at home and abroad. A successful businessman, philanthropist, former Heisman Trophy winner, and NFL Great, Herschel has been a tireless advocate for youth sports.”
Let’s see, lied about getting his degree, then lied about saying he had his degree. Lied about working in law enforcement. Opposes abortion for any reason, but paid for at least one woman’s abortion (when confronted about a check for $575, he said “he gives money to people all the time”, and claimed no knowledge of what it was for). He did have a son with the same woman, who also said Walker wanted her to get a second abortion.
But he is on top of climate change, shown by this quote: Since we don’t control the air our good air decided to float over to China’s bad air so when China gets our good air, their bad air got to move. So it moves over to our good air space. Then now we got we to clean that back up.
Oh, and he is violent toward women, but his mental health problems make it all right.
Sounds like a Trump-type of guy.
rikyrah
@Kay:
This is true.
Another Scott
@Shakti: DJT’s support is tribal.
We need to buck-up our own complicated, multi-faceted, herd of cats and dogs and gila monsters and emus, tribe.
It’s going to be a slog, but we need to do the work.
Hang in there.
Best wishes,
Scott.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Imma say this with my entire chest…
If Democrats don’t DEFEND..
AND, I DO MEAN DEFEND…
Social Security
Medicare
MEDICAID…
then phuck them.
Absolutely…positively…no ‘ working with’ Republicans to screw over the average American.
TBone
@Another Scott: thanks for your worthy contributions.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Please stop talking sense. It’s interfering with my ability to work myself up into a lather.
Bugboy
To further your Devil’s Advocate, AOC impresses the hell out of me, except the position that a social media following is equivalent to a voting constituency.
Another AOC gripe: on BS, I see she describes herself as “bartender” when she is anything but. I guess she’s gotta do that “(Wo)man of the people” thing? I think she seriously undersells herself if she is going to jump on that train.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not sure we can go with the word “proof here.” It seems a reasonable conclusion because he added black and brown voters and his only real political pitch there was about immigration pressure on the lowest tier of the job market.
I think people forget that “black jobs” was a particularly incendiary immigration warhead. The clever delivery vehicle was the racist formulation that the media and social media couldn’t help but jump all over… which itself was simply stating a truth about systemic racism.
rikyrah
@Old Man Shadow:
Which would be despicable.
One of the reasons why I am a Democrat is because I respect others RIGHT TO LIVE AND THRIVE.
Looked at that phucking sideshow Congress put on the other day with the head of the NCAA.
Bringing up that trans athlete bullshyt.
And, then, after their fear mongering, a Dem Senator asked..
How many Student Athletes in America under the NCAA
510,000
How many trans competitive athletes at that level?
Maximum TEN
TEN
TEN
out of 510,000
LeftCoastYankee
This is the media quoting party operatives who may not even have any power or role in what is to come, about how will Dems react to some future theoretical Republican lawmaking initiative.
It’s about as useful as wondering what color cabinet I should consider to store all my future Olympic medals.
IMO, Republicans are vandals; they only know how to break. They struggle with building or solving anything. So we won’t help them break and destroy is a baseline. Whether there something is worth helping them build or solve is dependent on what it is.
John S.
@Another Scott:
That’s great — as long as the work being done isn’t “cooperation on a range of issues, including immigration, federal spending and entitlements”.
We don’t need Democrats doing the work of Republicans.
TBone
@JiveTurkin: I read an article in a Georgia local newspaper on that yesterday. They obeyed in advance so fucking hard. I couldn’t even.
John S.
@Baud:
I was talking about Democrats. I don’t really give a shit what Republicans do or don’t do.
Baud
@LeftCoastYankee:
I’d go with an off white. Fight me.
TBone
@Steve LaBonne: points for use of “lather.” It goes with my hot flash story.
rikyrah
@MomSense:
You make a lot of sense.
I hear what you’re saying.
But, I ‘m tired of Democrats working to save people who would rather burn down the country than live in a pluralistic society.
Baud
@John S.:
So was I.
TBone
@Baud: lol
Bupalos
@zhena gogolia: “Blame” is a ridiculous concept here. The marginal difference between 2020 and 2024 were Republican gains in black (very marginal) and brown (fairly earthshaking) votes. We lost and they won because they became less wealthy and less white and less old while we became more wealthy and more white and more old. The nature of our political priors on this stuff is obscuring the reality of political realignment as we head into a different political era.
Kay
@LeftCoastYankee:
It’s not though. The capitulation is from the DCCC chair. Her job is to set a political agenda to get Democrats elected.
The quote is from the specific Party person who sets the political agenda. That’s why it blew up.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I know that she can grate on the nerves, but, I would send Katie Porter and her white board everywhere I could in this country.
The way she broke down Social Security with her White Board was simple, direct, and on a level that an everyday voter can understand.
I’m sure that she could come up with the same for Medicare and Medicaid.
TBone
Where there is fear, there is no Jackal!
KatKapCC
@TBone: Wow. If you managed to restrain yourself from punching him in the teeth, then I am quite impressed.
Baud
@Bupalos:
We’re not entitled to sky high minority votes forever. The underlying base reality is that the problem lies with white people and white culture. Talking about margins obscures that.
I also expect a lot of white Dems to return home to the GOP over the next few years, absent a major economic collapse. It’ll be Reagan Democrats 2.0.
Kay
Frankly, the Democratic base have always been better and tougher than DC Democrats.They really don’t deserve us.
Quinerly
I like this piece. Interview with Josh Marshall. It’s worth the 10 mins imo.
https://newrepublic.com/article/189507/transcript-trumps-angry-new-tirade-truth-social-signals-dark-2025
John S.
@Baud:
Didn’t really come off that way, but ok. Your comment makes no sense in that context, but I’m used to your comments not making any sense. You have a reputation to uphold around here. 🙂
Almost Retired
@rikyrah: I don’t get Ro Khanna. His district is D +23 and he consistently gets around 70% of the vote. What’s with the performative centrism? I guess he’s beholden to his tech bro betters or something, or eyeing a Senate seat or more.
KatKapCC
@Steve LaBonne:
That made me giggle. This should be one of the slogans up top.
oldgold
Here’s my plan for fixing Social Security and Medicare without messing with the benefits.
Remove earned income cap for Social Security Tax;
Do away with Sub-S corps;
Impose modest Securities Trading Tax dedicated to Social Security and Medicare;
Impose Social Security Tax and Medicare Tax on 4797 depreciation recapture; and,
Rather than remove the tax on Social Security payments, dedicate those tax funds to Social Security and Medicare.
p.a.
@Bupalos: It’s really just a centuries-long scam: you too! newcomer, you too! can be white! Just join us in kicking out the ladder from this election’s/decade’s/generation’s targets.
Also too, join in agreeing that there are some who are permanent targets…
rikyrah
@Chief Oshkosh:
Been saying for years….
The basis of all advancement in this country in the 20th Century is Brown vs Board
The foundation of Brown is the 14th Amendment
They’ve been after it every since Brown vs Board
Using the racism wrapped up in ending birthright citizenship as the Trojan Horse by which to destroy the 14th Amendment.
I stand ten toes down on that
Old Man Shadow
@rikyrah: Yeah, but because the trans-community is so small, it would be easy for Democrats to just pretend they don’t exist/don’t matter and take the seemingly “reasonable” position of “Well, maybe we shouldn’t let doctors treat children for gender dysphoria with drugs” until they’re adults.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I thought she was fine but she’s an election denier. That conflicts with my baseline values. Deal breaker.
She’s a good teacher. We have lots of great teachers in the United States. We could hire one to work for our org.
New Deal democrat
@Baud: Here is Newsweek summarizing the poll:
Many of these young voters were in college, high school, or even middle school during Trump’s first term. They have no frame of reference. As far as many of them know, all Presidents have behaved like Trump did, and since he didn’t actually become a dictator the first time, he’s probably safe now.
Alao, I did not see any info on how big or reliable the poll was.
John S.
@Kay:
It appears that it’s gonna be a long slog around here if even fair criticism of elected (and specific) Democrats is constantly greeted with a chorus of “they know what they’re doing” and “don’t get yourself worked up”.
Baud
@Kay:
Was she a denier? I thought she whined about unfairness in the campaign, not that she denied the outcome.
Baud
@New Deal democrat:
Yeah, who knows? But obviously they could see Trump now, and many of them still see him favorably.
Bupalos
@Baud: We won’t agree on these formulations, to a large extent I think we’re talking in different terms. I think it’s politically incoherent to talk about a broad “culture” of ethnic groupings causing discreet political outcomes. Frankly I can’t even conceive of what “white culture” is supposed to mean in this context… whether it’s more or less in control or “to blame” or whatever than say 1976.
Hard thing to grasp….which I know is pretty much a setup line for an algorithmic internet response.
Baud
@Bupalos:
Ok.
Soprano2
@tam1MI: Wow, what the hell is going on there? Sounds like two people who are cutting off their noses to spite their face.
Seeker
@rikyrah:
The Dems sure look like they want to flip over and get their belly rubbed. I see them as a party of frauds and failures. I know opinions vary but it sure looks like they didn’t fight hard enough to maintain power and all I’m seeing now is disintegration.
Elizabelle
@Seeker: Fuck you. Into the pie filter you are catapulted.
Soprano2
@Kay: I think they should say that if Republicans do something they agree with they’ll work with them, but otherwise no, and there will be no cutting SS, Medicare, Medicaid or the VA by Democrats. I agree, “we joined with Republicans to raise the retirement age to 70” won’t win them any votes, and it will lose them a lot. That’s not bipartisanship.
I was talking to the man who runs the dementia caregiver support group last night. The people who work for senior centers are really worried that they’re going to lose a lot of funding, and I think they’re right to be worried. They’d cut money that helps seniors get services in order to give Musk another billion in tax cuts.
Kay
Mail delivery in Denmark is really bad, and I say this as a Mail Professional :)
Guess who privatized their postal service? Denmark. Just found that out today. It explains why I send a parcel to Denmark and 6 months later it returns from Denmark to my house.
oldgold
@rikyrah: The 14th “Amendment” has been argued to be more of a Restatement of the Constitution than an amendment. It eviscerated the 10th Amendment among other things.
Of course, since day one, there has been a determined group dedicated to disemboweling the 14th amendment. It seems they are now ascendant.
LeftCoastYankee
@Baud:
only for my gold medals.
No particleboard though.
Bupalos
@Seeker: this is impressively stupid, but about what I expect the internet to do to everyone’s brain eventually. Is this for real?
glc
David Dayen has his own observations.
John S.
@Soprano2:
Or they can just shut the fuck up and let their actions speak for themselves in the next congress.
Thats pretty much going to happen anyway, so we can probably all keep our powder mostly dry until then.
TBone
@KatKapCC: thanks, that effort took a lot outta me that day! I told him I’d need physical accommodations going forward – a muzzle so I would not bite the humans!
Bupalos
@Baud: If “off-white” isn’t already a term for white people who talk from a 50,000 foot perspective about white culture, then it should be.
PJ
@Almost Retired:
My understanding is that Ro Khanna gets A LOT of contributions from Silicon Valley. He is their guy.
way2blue
If some of the Republicans Trump has nominated are confirmed—there will be elections for their seats in 2025 [Stefanik NY; Waltz FL; Rubio FL]. Matt Gaetz’ FL seat too… Democrats need to recruit strong candidates to compete for those seats and run vigorous campaigns. No excuses about ‘Red’ districts or ‘Red’ states. Democrats must learn to fight for the American people everywhere rather than shrugging their shoulders at engaging in tough, uphill slogs.
Captain C
@JiveTurkin: I have to wonder how many of Herschel’s problems are due to CTE or other brain injuries resulting from his long career as a pro running back with a rushing style that would have ensured he took a lot of shots to the dome, and how many are just due to his shitty character.
TONYG
I’ve never agreed with the “leftist” dogma that states that “both major parties are exactly the same” … but an awful lot of Democratic Party “leaders” don’t work very hard to dispel that notion. There’s a lot of “Rather than fighting with Hitler let’s work together with him to find common ground.”. In a way this is as sad as the election itself.
Another Scott
@oldgold: I’m no expert, but my understanding is that FICA and the Social Security funding stuff is a lot more complicated than most people believe.
E.g., if you eliminate the FICA cap then you have to increase benefits proportionally (so there is no huge surplus). Benefits are currently based (to some extent) on what you pay in. That’s fine, but needs to be talked about (e.g. “Why should a billionaire get $250k a month in Social Security benefits??!!”)
If you don’t increase benefits, and the Social Security Trust Fund balloons, then that will increase the federal
deficitdebt. How? Because the money doesn’t sit in a vault, it gets spent and has to be paid back (and thus is a debt (that we owe ourselves)). E.g. AngryBearBlog from 2013.Social Security is a balancing act. Tweaking needs to be done, but it needs to be done carefully. If we want to collect substantially more in FICA taxes than are paid out, there are political and economic consequences to the system for doing so.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Kay
@Soprano2:
The effort to cut the federal budget is 100% about mitigating the budgetary effects of the Trump tax cuts. They are literally taking from poor and middle class to allow room for tax cuts to billionaires while remaining solvent.
Democrats cannot join in this massive heist. It violates everything they have ever told voters on every level – taxes, social safety net, progressive taxation, basic fairness …
Seeker
@Bupalos: I edited to tone it down but I don’t see how people that voted Dem don’t feel betrayed by the current rhetoric of the party.
The Dems routinely fail to accomplish their professed political goals. At some point, it looks like a scam
Geminid
@hrprogressive: Rep. Ocasio-Cortez shows no sign of wanting to start a 3rd party. Anyway, she’s already in one, the Democratic Socialists of America.
You can always join the DSA. They have something like six different caucuses so you could probably find one that suits.
RevRick
@Omnes Omnibus: I sent my Senator, John Fetterman, a message expressing exactly my feelings about him working with God-damned fascists and told him that I would not be contributing to the campaigns of any Democrat that doesn’t forcefully oppose their nasty agenda. Since he personally called me for loot when he ran, I hope he gets the message.
Jeffro
@rikyrah:
110%
the whole point of being an opposition party is to oppose
rikyrah
@way2blue:
clap clap clap clap
TBone
@Kay:
https://bsky.app/profile/fancysplace.bsky.social/post/3ldjpx4fe3s2m
Ignore bad grammar.
Kay
@RevRick:
We, the Democratic base, quite literally dragged Marcy Kaptur over the finish line. Canvassing doesn’t matter in a lot of races but hers was close enough that we, not she, won it for her. Every labor union in the City of Toledo walked for her.
I expect her to uphold minimum standards for Trump appointees and oppose Elon Musk’s efforts to put the cost of his tax cuts on people who make 30k a year.
Bupalos
@Seeker: “betrayed by rhetoric” is a particularly online kind of thought to have.
I’m quite serious that I think the thoughts we are capable of having are increasingly being shaped by the algorithmic nature of online communication. Like we literally start to want politicians to say and do things that makes the polarized online world feel more and more comfortable. With absolutely zero interest in real-world effectiveness or consequences.
”CALL THEM ASSHOLES!!! LIGHT UP MY FEED!!”
rikyrah
@Kay:
Graphic going around TikTok.
Makes it plain as day.
The poorest of the poor..
are going to pay more out of their pocket…
than those who make 160,000-350,000
The entire graph chart is foul and ugly..
but, that’s what stuck out to me….
Someone making 160,000 will be paying less in additional taxes..
than someone making 28,000
Steve in the ATL
@Scout211:
Huh?
MomSense
@Seeker:
I would argue that it is because we do not get a chance to further our goals except after crises and by the time we get in office we have to spend all our political capital just cleaning up the shit the Republicans leave for us.
Baud
Dems betrayed their white populist base when they became the party of civil rights, so that’s why that meme sticks.
Miss Bianca
@Captain C: A creamy and delicious blend of both, perhaps?
TBone
@Scout211: what in hell is a TP-link router is my question. Are they labeled so I can check mine? TP means “toilet paper” in my dinosaur amygdala.
An image search tells me I do not have one, I hope.
Jeffro
I’m still confused as to how a party that’s supposedly sooooo concerned about our blessed national debt could even consider a tax cut of any size when we run a trillion-dollar budget deficit every year, one caused almost completely by previous rounds of budget-busting tax cuts.
It wouldn’t take a great orator to remind the GOP that the place they’re working so hard to help billionaires loot is a) their place – and their kids’ place – too and b) can’t be burnt down afterwards for the insurance money, like a typical ‘bust out’.
Kay
Jeffries said “we oppose ending Social Security and Medicare as we know it”
You could drive a fucking truckload of cuts thru that. So, so tired of weasel words. No one is going to be fooled by this bullshit.
John S.
@Baud:
So even after 60 years Democrats still have that albatross hanging around their necks? That’s a pretty impressive grudge. I guess white people never forget any attempt to dilute their power.
LeftCoastYankee
@Kay:
I think there’s some deceptive presentation by the writer. The first 3 quotes are active Pols, but look to be taken from previous public statements (or at least not in response to the author’s inquiries).
later he quotes an unnamed former operative to provide the summary interpretation of these quotes.
I think the leadership quotes aren’t great but Ro Khanna is a chucklehead.
zhena gogolia
@John S.: You’re kidding, aren’t you? Everything stems from that.
I thought we had overcome it with Obama, but no.
Another Scott
@TBone: TP-Link is a brand. They make good stuff. (I have a lot of their wireless stuff at home.)
We’ll see how this shakes out.
(I’m a bit of a cynic about this stuff in the news. Just about everything is made overseas these days, so panic about some nasty foreigners stealing our stuff – that just so happens to support the memes of the monsters – isn’t a sensible response, IMHO. It seems to me that foreign companies generally don’t want to risk a backlash from customers (it’s impossible to fix a trashed reputation) so don’t intentionally add backdoors, etc. Foreign governments and hackers are different, of course.)
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Young white males don’t like competing against minorities and women in the workforce any more than Reagan Democrats did.
tam1MI
And here’s what makes me so disgusted with the Feckless Caucus – we KNOW that Dems can be disciplined. We KNOW they can stay on message. We KNOW they can hold ranks in the face of incoming fire. WE KNOW THIS BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY DID WHEN THEY DEFENESTRATED JOE BIDEN!
But apparently it’s too much to expect that they do the same when it comes to standing up to Republicans.
Geminid
@Almost Retired:
@PJ: There was a Ro Khanna fundraiser hosted by wealthy tech investor David Sacks earlier this year that got a lot of attention from Khanna critics. Sacks is active in conservative politics so the fundraiser raised suspicion towards Khanna.
I think part of the deal with Ro Khanna is the guy really likes to hear himself talk. He reminds me of Lindsey Graham in the respect.
p.a.
@Kay: Wasn’t it congressional Dems & rank & file that twice had to tell the O admins NO when they sought SS “adjustments”? First admin was when they were seeking a solution to debt ceiling games by Rs, second admin was when they were contemplating a stingier COLA formula for adjustments, in response to R’s usual deficit 😱 bullshit.
zhena gogolia
@tam1MI: Well, I disagree with you there. They were going with the flow when they defenestrated Biden. No courage was required for that. Au contraire.
Only AOC and Crockett and a few others showed any courage.
The Truffle
Elizabeth Warren, back in 2016, said she would be willing to work with you know who on things they agreed on. You know what happened next.
Why this nothingburger story?
Baud
I’m so old I remember when the Dems were feckless for not reading the Gaetz report into the Congressional record.
Seeker
@Kay: Yes. He just said they are open to changing things. I wonder if Republicans ever feel thankful that they have been blessed with such “opponents”.
KatKapCC
@TBone: LOL!! Seriously. I’m entering that delightful phase of life myself, and I am not looking forward to any little jokes some man might wanna make.
Scout211
@Steve in the ATL:
Sorry, I thought that was what you wrote about the jackal commentariat at one point . The “elderly shut-ins” joke may not have been yours. Mea culpa.
Baud
@The Truffle:
There’s a market for it.
Death Panel Truck
Note to Democrats:
REPUBLICANS WILL NEVER “COOPERATE” WITH YOU.
They are out to destroy you. Don’t help them do it.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Damn right. I’m no political expert but jeez! Show some backbone, people! [ETA the fight is never over. The Republicans know this, it’s about time the Democrats learned it.]
Baud
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@PJ:
He’s the techbro’s man in the House (his district is much of Silicon Valley) so it explains a lot of his fauxgressiveness.
Kay
@Seeker:
We should organize to defend Social Security. It would revitalize liberals and, frankly, we are all we got left.
But we’re a lot! The Democratic base have always been better organizers than the national party. The entire resistance movement to Trump I was organized outside the party, without elected Democrats. They benefitted from our work in the ‘18 midterms, they didn’t do the work. We are the holders of Party values, not them.
Our base actually believe in these things. They’ll defend the social safety net from all comers. The issues we care about reside with us, not them. We’re the stewards for our grandchildren.
KatKapCC
@Kay: And as part of that defense, we also need to remind people that it is not just older folks who depend on Social Security, but also disabled people of all ages. And for many of them, without that money they would be entirely fucked.
MomSense
@p.a.:
No it was O saying he was willing to look at increases to lower end benefits in exchange for other things but the committee had no support from broader Rs and Ds so it went nowhere and O got to signal to the normies that he was reasonable and willing to compromise without actually giving up anything.
VFX Lurker
Yep.
narya
I generally like Bouie’s takes. Here, though, it’s possible that he and Jeffries are kind of talking past each other. I think that Jeffries is making an important point: it’s important not to be distracted by the distractions. Until we (and Jeffries) see exactly what they’re planning to do, it makes no sense to waste energy on responding to every last mouth fart that TCFG and the rest of them emit. I do hope that there’s plenty of planning that we can’t see–and, frankly, I do not WANT to see it right now. Why tell your opponent what you’re going to do?
All that said, I absolutely want to see strong opposition in the new Congress, and I want to see absolute resistance to some of the things they’re floating.
hrprogressive
@Geminid:
The DSA disavowed her, apparently, so.
I don’t know that I’d agree with AOC on every single point or issue but, she seems to get it in a way that people 20-40 years her senior fucking don’t.
So yeah.
John S.
@Baud:
I’m not young or white, so my frame of reference is slightly different. I just don’t intuitively understand the angst, even though I do recognize it.
Another Scott
@Lapassionara:
Meanwhile, … TheHill.com:
Such courage!!
[ womp, womp ]
An easy vote for Senate Democrats. I expect Paul to lose, again, and the video of the monsters voting against it to be helpful in the coming elections.
Best wishes,
Scott.
John S.
@narya:
I honestly think we all do here, and for the most part that is what we will get.
TBone
@Another Scott: thank you! I had some important hard drive stuff mysteriously disappear and am suspicious by nature where computers or dumphones are involved so that helps.
RevRick
@Jeffro:
@Kay:
One way I am helping Democrats wise up is cutting off my monthly ActBlue contributions to the DCCC and DSCC, and telling my Senator, John Fetterman, not to expect a nickel from me.
Kay
I love the “I am just going to ignore the words these people actually said” energy here.
Theyre telling you they’re open to cutting entitlements. That’s what Jeffries qualifying weasel words mean. To see what it sounds like when Democrats effectively (and actually) oppose something go look up Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in 2005, after GWB was elected and announced he was cutting Social Security.
Compare.
Peke Daddy
Of course, there is proof opposition works.
https://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2024/12/dear-democrats-you-know-that-what-you.html
TBone
@KatKapCC: things to remember:
It is temporary even though it seems like it never ends.
Bio identical hormones can be your friend and keep you in a sane, young-feeling place long past your “due date.” I took them while employed so my boss would STFU. When I retired, I decided to just bite the bullet like women that have come before me have been doing for aeons. Because of the risks involved.
It is always the man’s fault if he knows what’s good for him. Mental, menopause, menstruation – all of it.
Ksmiami
@CaseyL: I want Republicans to die off . Let their own stupidity do them in. I simply do not care. Maybe we can rebuild once they’re gone.
TBone
@Peke Daddy: thank you, fearless fighter on our team!
cain
Fun watching the playbook keep moving forward unchanged.
The Dems spent months talking about Trump being fascist and that this might be the last gasp of democracy.
This pivot makes it looks like it was just politics as usual and they plan on just normalizing it all and it is business as usual. Cool.
Baud
@cain:
The American voter already normalized it. You can deal with that as you like.
TBone
@Baud: Normal is merely a setting on the washer and dryer.
MomSense
@Kay:
We are on our own. I’m going to go back to volunteering with Maine People’s Alliance who are already organizing around social security. I don’t think Dems can campaign on existential threat and then govern on never mind. Maybe before Trump you could signal willingness to compromise but not after campaigning on the threat he poses.
Chris
If your values don’t collide on immigration or entitlements, what the hell do they collide on?
eemom
@TBone:
Now THAT needs to be a rotating tag line.
Bill Arnold
@Scout211:
There are genuine issues with unpatched (insecure) home (also SOHO) routers.
General advice, not specific to TP-link.
First step is to apply any patches available for your router, if you have not already done so. This is generally a manual process, and you may (probably will, if old equipment) find that security patch support was dropped years ago. Also, all endpoint devices should have updates applied as soon as available.
Also, turn off (or make sure not turned on) access to router configuration via the internet. If it was turned on, your router might already be “rooted” (and part of a botnet).
The general issues are that (a) vendors, especially TP-link, are not prompt(sometimes “never”) with security fixes, (b) and quickly drop support anyway, and (c) they are not particularly concerned with security, rather with profit.
Also, that adversaries are seriously systematic about compromising systems that are in aggregate unevenly patched. Vulnerabilities will be found, and exploited forevermore if they are not patched.
Probing of internet-facing machines is constant and relentless. Example: I have an internet facing ssh server on my home (cable) network (secure shell to log in from elsewhere) that consistently currently gets failed/banned login attempts from 100 to 200 IP different IP addresses, distributed worldwide. (About 1/2 Chinese.)
different-church-lady
Starting to seem like the prevailing mood among the “opposition” party is, “Hey, people want shit, I guess we need to just stop fighting it give the people what they want.”
different-church-lady
@cain:
“[shrug] I guess democracy is a losing issue, so we gotta find something else…”
VFX Lurker
Whether certain groups* qualify as “people.”
*Women, children, minorities, LGBTQ. They’re all people-shaped…but are they people?
Do we give them complete healthcare…or let them use a public bathroom? Do we protect them from gun violence? Do they have the right to vote at age 18 and up? Do they have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
We’ll find out in 2025.
Ruviana
@MomSense: {{{Momsense!!!}}}
TBone
@Bill Arnold: awww geez, now I just want a whole-home sized Faraday bag!
Geminid
@hrprogressive: This year the DSA’s national executive committee withheld its endorsement, but the New York City DSA chapter did endorse Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.. They’re the largest DSA chapter nationally.
New York’s City and State Magazine had a good article on this controversy. And from what I saw on various platforms, a lot of DSA members had plenty to say about the endorsement decisions as well. They had principles and strategies to argue about, like a lot of people here do.
There was a DSA member who commented here. He even attended the DSA’s July, 2023 convention in Chicago, as a delegate. He still comments every now and then, but he left the party not too long after that convention. I don’t think he’s given up on socialism so much as given up on that particular political organization.
cain
@Baud:
That’s the thing .. they don’t think they normalized it. They think it’s going to be this back and forth thing. They don’t think there will be consequences but it doesn’t help that the Dems are projecting that there won’t be any consequences either.
But I think they are also making sure that the current set of senior legislatures are in control for good or for ill.
Bill Arnold
@Bupalos:
It did? Evidence for this “fact”?
cain
@MomSense:
That is what I am thinking. I’m going to leave the national Dems alone and focus on what’s going on here in Portland.
The feds are going to come here .. you know Trump doesn’t like us ..
Bill Arnold
@Bupalos:
I have not seen a convincing voter analysis that justifies that statement. Links?
Facts:
-Trump is 78YO
– Harris is 60YO.
– Republicans are the party of the wealthy.
Scout211
@Bill Arnold: Thank you! Lots of good information.
Since I didn’t understand how to manage that or even understand why I needed that, I have always refused to set that up when prompted to do so. I’m glad I chose correctly. Whew.
I did read this on a tech site and that is the main reason I was thinking about a newer model. I do log into the router for firmware updates but security patches and firmware updates are few and far between now.
Thank you so much for your reply.
Bill Arnold
@Another Scott:
Why not? Why can the surplus not be invested in something more secure and less effortless for the GOP to raid, like French government bonds, or truffle futures?
Ramona
@The Other Bob:
I agree with this. Why should we expend political capital on people who refuse to even consider voting for us.
RevRick
@MomSense: Bitching and moaning accomplishes nothing. I came to this conclusion years ago when I was walking around my neighborhood and saw litter everywhere. So, I decided I was going to be the solution and started picking it up and adding it to our trash collection. Initially, I would collect three – four plastic grocery bags full several times a week, but now once-a-week I’ll gather maybe one. Enough people have “caught” me doing it that they no longer tolerate it around their house.
Ramona
@Baud: Is the freshman Congressperson a leader of the progressive caucus? How so?
MomSense
@cain:
Maine People’s had a big meeting over the weekend and they are already doing press on fighting for social security, Medicare and Medicaid.
different-church-lady
@RevRick: You are Mike Dukakis and I claim my five comfy sweaters during the Blizzard of 78.
Geminid
@Ramona: I think Greg Casar is a freshman. Casar was elected to an open San Antonio-based seat in 2022, and was a City Councilor before that.
I hadn’t heard Casar was head of the Progressive Caucus. I thought it was still Pramila Jayapal. Maybe he has different leadership post.
Ramona
@Another Scott: what percentage of the population of each House district (AOC’s and Gerry’s) are eligible to vote?
Geminid
@Geminid: Sounds like Greg Casar is in fact the new Progressive Caucus chairman. His colleagues must have liked what they saw of Casar his freshman year.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Geminid:
Jayapal was term limited out. That caucus knows that letting people rule for fucking ever is not a good idea.
Ramona
@Ramona:
@Another Scott:
From ballotopedia.org, it looks like the total voting in Connolly’s Virginia district was about 410K while the total voting in AOC’s district was 192K. So unless turnout in AOC’s district is seriously depressed, I’d say that Connolly’s district is twice the size of AOC’s.
Furthermore, she won a larger percentage than he did.
General election for U.S. House Virginia District 11
Candidate % Votes
Gerald Edward Connolly (D) 66.7% 273,529
Michael Van Meter (R) 32.9% 134,802
Other/Write-in votes 0.5%3 1,855
Total votes: 410,186
General election for U.S. House New York District 14
Candidate % Votes
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (Working Families Party / D) 68.9% 132,714
Tina Forte (R / Conservative Party) 30.7% 59,078
Other/Write-in votes 0.4 % 759
Total votes: 192,551
The Other Bob
@Geminid:
Also the reason these two legislators have this power is because ALL of the Republicans walked this week too.
Another Scott
@Ramona: House districts have nominally the same number of people (average 761,169). Maybe AOC’s district is smaller, maybe it has more people who are under 18, maybe it has more immigrants who can’t
workvote. Dunno.Let’s see… AOC’s 14th District has 740,563 people (2023 estimate).
Gerry’s 11th district has 783,583 people (2023 estimate).
So, Gerry’s district is about 43,000 people larger. But that doesn’t tell us about registered voters or eligible voters.
Turnout numbers would be helpful. Maybe they are not easily tabulated because House districts cross county boundaries, etc., who keep track of things differently. Dunno.
FWIW.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Ramona
@Old Man Shadow: My understanding which is meager is that apart from prescribing reversible puberty blockers, doctors don’t make physical interventions to treat gender dysphoria until adulthood. The puberty blockers are necessary to put off irreversible natural changes such as development of the jaw or breasts.