So, yeah, third post here about President Musk’s decision to shut down the government via a tweet, but I’m going to focus on the challenges facing possible next Speaker Rev. Mike Johnson, purity ball and masturbation monitoring aficionado, and the rest of Congress.
Let’s begin with the fact that Mike has only one vote to lose on the Speaker vote next January (or February, or March, depends on how it goes). He’s lost Stefanik to the UN and Gaetz to teenage girls, so he’s got a two-vote majority, and one of those votes is already a no from Tom Massey. So he’s on an even hotter seat than he was in the last Congress, where, let’s remember, the Republicans were unable to pass a budget and instead just did Continuing Resolutions (CRs) on the Democratic budget. Because all the salty nutbars in the Freedum Caca won’t vote for anything except poison pill shit, and because MyKevin stacked the committees with them in a useless effort to kiss up, they won’t even let a CR out of committee. Instead, they have to be passed under suspension of the rules with a supermajority–iow with a lot of Democrats’ votes. (This is a great thread on Bluesky explaining it all.)
The most likely outcome here is that Elongated Muskrat learns (slowly, as he tends to) that shutting down the government might affect his ability to jet around, since unpaid ATC controllers might not issue takeoff clearances to the shithead who took away their Xmas paycheck. (Memo to Mayor Pete: order the FCC FAA to only clear commercial and medevac traffic because of the budget emergency, and see how fast Elon and the other billionaires pay attention.) This will lead to a vote on, say, Christmas Eve, after a good long session of everyone pointing out to Trump that he’s Elon’s weak little playtoy. Let’s take a quick moment to consider the Senate’s role in this, specifically the oldsters and the travelers. Chuck Grassley, a spry 91, is going to have his Christmas plans with family ruined. Lisa Murkowski will face the prospect of a long-ass flight to Alaska on the busiest travel day of the year. They’re going to be hella pissed.
When Musk and Trump finally tell Mike to make a deal, what deal will he be able to make? Will the Democrats say, well, OK, since you went back on the last deal, we’ll just take the same thing again? Maybe, but I think not. It’s amazing how quickly the aura of invincibility can be broken by the intrusion of cold, hard facts. Clearly, most Congressional Dems were going through a mourning period of silence, but once it was clear that Musk and Trump stepped on a rake, some of them seem to be remembering that Trump’s first Presidency consisted of a lot of rakes to the face. It also helps that this is an easy one — basically, Hakeem Jeffries just needs to do what he did, which is to say not just “no” but “hell no” to a clean CR at the 11th hour.
So let’s review the bidding: weak Speaker made weaker, mad Senators mad madder, Democrats made more resilient. What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours.
Anyway, I’ll close with a comment attributed to one of Mitch McConnell’s staffers when he heard about the stupidity of another Senator: “You’ve shit the bed. Are you going to roll around in it, or are you going to clean it up?” My prediction: a few more days of rolling around, at a minimum.
Jackie
Just posted this on the old thread, but it definitely fits better here:
Just heard on the news Rand Paul and MTG suggesting the Puppet Master be SOTH. First, as second in line to POTUS, is Musk even eligible, as he wasn’t born in the USA? And, secondly, WTELH is a senator doing sticking his nose in House affairs?
different-church-lady
I mean, does the house really need a speaker?
Baud
Hakeem Jeffries on Blue sky
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:zipphihu644mxj7qjafvwwun
Baud
@different-church-lady:
An AI should do it.
Geminid
In the silver lining department, a government shutdown would provide an auspicious background for Abigail Spanberger’s bid to become Virginia’s first woman Governor. Virginia voters hate that shit..
Steve LaBonne
This is why some of us have been less than enthusiastic about putting every statement by every Democrat under a microscope before anything real was happening. Opposition has to have something concrete to oppose. Now the Republicans have generously handed them a golden opportunity and they are responding appropriately.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Jackie:
Pissing off the House. Rand is really good at pissing people off. I don’t know if he has any other talents.
SFAW
@different-church-lady:
Probably not (at least, not the Klown Kaukus). But if they decide they do, I have a couple of ESS AMT 1-Cs that I can sell them for a pittance. Even though one of them needs some repair, they work better than anything the Rethugs can come up with.
dmsilev
@Jackie: Anyone can be Speaker. If, post Jan 20, Trump and Vance got hit by a meteor or something, the succession would then skip him as foreign-born and go to the next person on the list.
Which is not to say that it’s a good idea, but it is at least legal.
SFAW
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
No kidding. I would guess that he would be the senator most likely to be voted into a steel-cage death match (with chainsaws) with Ted Cruz.
Geminid
@Jackie: Rand Paul and Utah Senator Mike Lee have been sticking their noses into Republican House Caucus politics for a while now. They basically egg on rebellious Freedom Caucus members.
SFAW
@dmsilev:
Justices Scam Alito and Clarence Thomas might disagree, after dumping their current patrons for the Richest Mofo in the World.
Old Man Shadow
@Jackie: Hmm… I don’t know… the idea of submitting House Republicans to the working conditions of Twitter employees does have a certain appeal…
Scout211
Whut?
Hmmm. I wonder why this case warrants a “mandate” to remove her. I can’t think of a reason . . .
K-Mo
@dmsilev: So 91-yo Chuck Grassley, come on down!
John S.
@Steve LaBonne:
Save your victory lap for when we actually win. But so far, so good.
Steve LaBonne
@John S.: Nobody is talking about victory laps. This fight will last 4 years and shouting ourselves hoarse over every skirmish would be a deeply stupid way to get through them.
different-church-lady
@Steve LaBonne: So you’re trying to end the internet?
Chief Oshkosh
I think Mistermix has mixed the FCC with the FAA. That aside, this whole thing is nonsensical.
The problem with having the FAA shutdown ATC is that 1) it may not be legal, 2) known likely outcomes that are very bad that nobody (well, anyone who is normal) wants to cause or own (e.g., grandma dies because the critical supply chain for her critical meds collapsed because a critical cargo flight was delayed), and 3) it would be done under the aegis of a Democratic administration, and so the Democrats would entirely own the pain.
Unfortunately, #3 holds for any other tactical or strategic shutdown ploy that is concocted by the Democrats. As it is, any problems that occur with a government shutdown before the inauguration will be blamed on Democrats as Biden will have to deal with the problems of having even scarcer resources. Because of that, the Republicans are not likely to suffer any consequences of causing a shutdown.
And this makes it even more important for EVERY elected Democrat to follow Jeffries’ lead and pre-hang grandma’s early demise on the Trump, Elon, and the Republicans. They should be spending all of their other other spare time in front of cameras and microphones talking about this
ETA: That’s not to say that I don’t WISH that Mistermix’s ATC shutdown could happen in ways that specifically fuck over Republicans stuck on a cold tarmac somewhere.
zhena gogolia
@Steve LaBonne: Right.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Steve LaBonne: If you want to be in denial about the almost complete silence from Democrats in the face of Trump’s bullshit, go ahead and be in denial. But until yesterday evening, only some members of the Progressive Caucus in the House, Elizabeth Warren and Chris Murphy were the only ones making a stink. And trust me, I looked.
Another way of putting it: glad they finally woke up.
hrprogressive
“President Elon Musk orders Christmas Government Shutdown. Former Businessman, Donald Trump, weakly complies with the President’s wishes”
Keep repeating variants of that, over and over again, and it will drive Trump and his cult members insane.
There may be some Venn Diagram overlap with Trumpists and Muskovites (not my original, heh) but it likely isn’t a complete circle.
trollhattan
@Chief Oshkosh:
I can’t recall, how did they keep air traffic going when St Ronny broke the union and fired them all?
Past shutdowns have featured high-profile things like closing National Parks while keeping basic services and our blessed military going like bidnez as usual.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Chief Oshkosh:
Yep, fixed, thanks.
And it was kind of tongue in cheek, but I could see a way that a shortage of ATC would justify limiting private aviation. In case it wasn’t clear, that was my point: don’t let the private jets fly, but everything else can still go. This would be a way to target billionaires without getting Dems in a huge amount of trouble.
Steve LaBonne
@@mistermix.bsky.social: And what happened yesterday, there was actually something to oppose, and they not only opposed it but have been mocking Trump by talking about President Musk. Go read Charles Blow’s column today, which says much the same thing I said. Your shtick is already tiresome and we’re still a month from Trump actually being in office.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve LaBonne: I agree. The amount of pre-disappointment going around has been crazy.
@John S.: No victory laps. Just waiting to bitch until bitching is warranted.
feebog
I have a neighbor who I depend on to post the latest rightwing perspective on FB. The take on this is that Johnson is a RINO, none of the Republican leadership can be trusted and the sneaky Democrats pulled another fast one. Can one have a shit show inside a dumpster fire?
Jackie
@K-Mo:
Age is just a number… unless you’re a Democratic president.
twbrandt
Couldn’t place it at first, but finally figured out the title references an old Gordon Lightfoot song.
LeftCoastYankee
@Baud:
Oh god that’s more terrifying than Holy Johnson.
Omnes Omnibus
@twbrandt: But icky.
tobie
I know I’m engaging in speculation here (or conspiracy theory, if you prefer) but I’m wondering if the derailment of the continuing resolution has anything to do with Russia. The Russians were routed from Syria. Of late, they’ve lost some ground in Ukraine. How convenient it would be if all weapons shipments to Ukraine stopped before Trump is even inaugurated.
From Mastodon:
Another Scott
@Baud: I heard a bit of the press conference Jeffries had.
Q: If Johnson does things you like with the CR, will Democrats vote for him for Speaker??!!
Jeffries: No.
Johnson is cooked.
And it’s hard to see the GQP finding anyone who can replace him.
Interesting times ahead… :-/
Best wishes,
Scott.
eclare
@Baud:
Thanks.
John S.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well then that makes two of us. Even though there have been a few other legitimate opportunities for Democrats to show some spine, this one takes the cake so far.
Which is amazing considering Trump isn’t even in office yet. Sheesh.
ETA: The Defense bill vote sucked, and I called my rep about it. That’s not “pre-disappointment”. That was an actual fucking vote that mattered.
kindness
While the stock market is down, popcorn futures are skyrocketing.
MazeDancer
What happens when the GOP can’t elect a Speaker by Jan 6? House not sworn in, vote not certified, so Trump not Prez.
Trump can try to say so-and-so is my Speaker choice. But if 2 GOP say no thanks, won’t that make Hakeem Jeffries the Speaker?
Alas, .Speaker Jeffries ,will do his duty in Jan 6.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Steve LaBonne:
TIL a regular reader of this blog still subscribes to the Times after everything that it has done to Democrats, including butter emails and did you know Joe Biden is old.
Sorry, won’t be reading Blow’s column since I unsubscribed from that rag in 2016.
sixthdoctor
@feebog: It’s a Russian nesting doll of failure. A shit show inside a dumpster fire inside an epic fail inside a dog’s breakfast inside a goat rodeo…
Kay
Mister mix is one frontpager who sometimes criticizes Democrats.
Surely that’s permissible on Balloon Juice, one dissenting view. This place used to be genuinely contentious and it was FINE. In fact, John Cole used to jump in and take a side in a fight, thereby lighting the site on fire. Its a political site, not a support group or Democratic campaign ad. There will be disagreements. That’s not the end of the world.
Go read GOP sites sometime. Contrary to what people here believe they fight all the time. Squelching any and all critics is not, actually , how Republicans win and it is not how we will win either.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@MazeDancer:
It will be like when MyKevin resigned: vote, after vote, after vote, until they elect somebody. The Dems will vote as a bloc, but you need a majority of those present, so Jeffries won’t win unless a couple of R’s vote for him. Unlikely.
John S.
@Kay:
The winds change on a daily basis.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: Yes, he does and some people disagree with him. Surely that is permissible too.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@different-church-lady:
That would only occur if, at the same time, cats and porn were gone from the internet.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@feebog:
Nominated!
Steve LaBonne
@@mistermix.bsky.social: I most certainly do not. I am smart enough to know how to read their rare worthwhile content for free and without even giving them a click. Any other silliness you’d like to get off your chest?
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
If political arguments in ONE POST A DAY are too contentious and upsetting to be borne maybe take up birdwatching.
Baud
different-church-lady
@Kay: I would submit that criticizing Democrats and shitting on Democrats are two different things. And that Mr. stays on the right side of the line for the most part.
John S.
@Omnes Omnibus:
There’s a fine line between disagreement and just being a dick.
Disagreeing with Mistermix is one thing. Accusing him of acting in bad faith and undermining Democrats with his criticism and of being a fucking idiot who is ruining BJ seems to be a little bit more than that.
YMMV
ETA: I’m not accusing you of doing any of that. At least not on this particular thread. 🙂
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: “Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position!”
Did I complain that MM is posting? No, I did not.
LAC
@Omnes Omnibus: Apparently not. Genuflecting in three, two, one…
Steve LaBonne
@Kay: Omnes was engaging in a political argument, not saying there shouldn’t be one. Your idea of one seems to be that you can argue but nobody can argue back. Good luck with that.
John S.
@different-church-lady:
Who gets to define what constitutes as criticism vs. shitting?
I think therein lies some of the problem.
John S.
@Steve LaBonne:
You’re not wrong, Walter. You’re just an asshole.
ArchTeryx
@Chief Oshkosh: There is. You allow cargo flights, but you shut down all passenger and private flights save for first responders and military. Last shutdown, the ATC controllers were preparing a general strike because they were being forced to work an extended time without pay. Once they started talking about shutting down major airports, Congress started listening in a hurry and the shutdown was ended shortly thereafter. IIRC, challenging their requirement to work without being paid was a bridge even the SC(r)OTUS of the time did not want to cross
( Oh, you want to use Amtrak? That’s government-run, so that’s shut down too. )
Omnes Omnibus
@John S.: Matter of opinion, ain’t it?
TBone
Finally remembered where I saw the electric butt plug saying about Lil’ Mike. Hahahahaha!
https://bsky.app/profile/fancysplace.bsky.social/post/3ldk7ccuumc26
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m fine with people disagreeing with me. In general, and this is not pointed specifically at you, Omnes, bring some facts.
For example, in the thread where I stated my views on Democrats, pro and con, yesterday, one commenter stated, without any evidence, that there were lots of Democrats out criticizing Trump and his appointee clown car. Not true, I’ve been looking. Until Musk woke them up, it was a couple, mostly House Progressive Caucus members (Frost, Crockett are two good examples). They get it, btw, it’s a 24/7 campaign now.
Another commenter went after the new Progressive Caucus leader based on a headline, wondering what his position on trans rights is. Again, baseless critique of one of the scapegoats that many commenters have, the progressives.
Part of what I don’t like about these lazy commenters is that it makes work for me to push back on their views.
IOW – If you want to disagree, bring a link. Not from the NYT, btw, I refuse to read that rag — know your enemies.
Kay
@Steve LaBonne:
You-all dragged your yesterdays complaints about mm into another of his posts – we didn’t used to do that on Balloon Juice either.
Now every time he posts there will be a chorus of complaints about the wholly mythical anti Democratic bias of this site.
Steve LaBonne
@John S.: I certainly am an asshole. What I am not is a stupid asshole.
artem1s
I’ve been saying since Nov 6 this was going to be the first opportunity for Dems to pull out their big guns and show the world and MAGAts exactly what they voted for – 401s and 403s tanking, no social security, and run away inflation.
Maybe you should consider that Jeffers has been spending the last 40 days or so planning on how Dems would use this opportunity to their advantage. It’s not like this is his first rodeo. He learned how to do this job at the feet of the GOAT vote wrangler after all. You think he doesn’t know exactly who in the GOP would be pissed about TCF’s attempt to keep them in DC up until Christmas Eve services? And who would rather keep all that fat infrastructure money in their districts? Their staffers sure aren’t going to be happy about getting yelled at for the next few weeks either especially if they are counting on Gym Jordan for their Xmas bonuses.
The real test for TCF and fElon is whether they think the GOP Congress, Wall Street and the Bank CEO’s will roll over and let them threaten to default on the federal debt. According to the upwardly failed business sooper genius, bankruptcy is no big deal, right?
WereBear
Jeffries made an announcement about being bipartisan, which I didn’t agree with, but I’ve been wrong before. The new statement ties together with what he’s saying today so I’m guessing he knew this was on the horizon.
I trust him more than the windsocks in the “press.”
lowtechcyclist
Cite that the air traffic controllers would have to work without pay during a shutdown?
Steve LaBonne
@Kay: Again, you think you and certain others should be able to be argumentative without anyone arguing back. Not gonna happen.
Steve LaBonne
@lowtechcyclist: They are essential employees and have been made to work through every shutdown. In 2018-19 they did after a while refuse to work overtime, which is disruptive because ATC is understaffed. That might happen more quickly this time.
ArchTeryx
@lowtechcyclist: https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/ten-air-traffic-controllers-shutdown/index.html
TBone
@sixthdoctor: your descriptive powers are wonderful.
Omnes Omnibus
@@mistermix.bsky.social: FWIW I’ve been in the oppose when there are things to oppose and don’t get trapped in the daily outrage camp.* And the AOC vote was quite likely an unforced error, but I don’t think it’s going to keep her out of leadership for long. Too much star power.
*I know you noted you weren’t specifically calling me out.
Kay
@Steve LaBonne:
Its intended to stop him from posting criticism. If you can set up a whinefest about how hes somehow disloyal on every one of his posts (no matter the content, dragged from one day to the next) he’ll stop posting.
ArchTeryx
@Steve LaBonne: More than that. They were planning a general strike, but were doing it in stages. 10 staged a sickout as an initial test, and one major airport – La Guardia – basically shut down cold. That was enough to get EVERYONE’S attention and what had been a 35 day shutdown ended shortly thereafter.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@lowtechcyclist: Here’s a cite from the last WH press release on the last shutdown. I think this link takes you right to it: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/09/27/extreme-republican-shutdown-would-risk-delays-for-travelers-and-force-air-traffic-controllers-and-tsa-officers-to-work-without-getting-paid/#:~:text=During%20an%20Extreme%20Republican%20Shutdown,their%20critical%20jobs%20without%20getting
Matt McIrvin
@Jackie: The Speaker doesn’t have to be eligible for the Presidency–the succession law just says that if that’s an issue, that official gets skipped over. The only other office where eligibility is required is Vice-President.
Baud
Kay
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
You go mm. You consistent!y produce the most substantive political posts on the site. With links! Remember those? No one includes them anymore.
Its old fashioned blogging and I so appreciate it.
Steve LaBonne
@Kay: Again you are doing exactly what I described, pretending that certain viewpoints are privileged and nobody should oppose them. Short of Loomis-like bannings that just isn’t going to happen.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve LaBonne: I remember getting in a big argument with another LT in the army that almost came to blows. It ended when I told him he was an obnoxious asshole and he told me that I was arrogant and condescending. We paused and admitted the truth of the descriptions. Then we went and got another drink. We remain friends.
JaySinWA
I thought last PINO would be a good term for Trump, revising that to P-EINO for now President-Elect In Name Only.
Daniel Goldberg has put forward the Puppet President-Elect as an option.
Others are struggling with a term for Musk, offering Co-President, or Deputy President. I would offer De Facto President-Elect [DFP-E] as closer to reality.
In truth everything that emphasizes Trump’s lack of dominance should help break up the bromance. Whether Trump has the ability to end the relationship or will just end up groveling to Musk, we can at least root for injuries.
Kay
@Steve LaBonne:
And you’re not “disagreeing” with him. You haven’t actually shown that anything he wrote yesterday was wrong. You’re objecting to a negative tone.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Kay:
Yes, and, it turns off other new commenters to the site. I attribute a lot of the loss of readership and commenting to the fact that anyone who doesn’t share the narrow, parochial views of some commenters must be immediately shouted down. Look at how they’re treating hrprogressive, who I think is a sincere person with sincere beliefs. That person is just treated like shit.
It also contributes to loss of front pagers. John has tried, repeatedly, to get some diversity in the front page posters. Some of them post a couple of times and are treated very poorly. They don’t have time to get their sea legs before they just quit, because doing this for nothing while being faced with a chorus of negative comments isn’t very rewarding to them.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@ArchTeryx:
https://archive.ph/20230928231409/https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/ten-air-traffic-controllers-shutdown/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States#December_2018%E2%80%93January_2019
I worked throughout that one cuz our funding stream comes from the federal gas tax.
Kay
@Steve LaBonne:
I demand no one say anything critical about Democrats is not a “view”
Steve LaBonne
@JaySinWA: I think we can reasonably hope for massive injury to both parties. Trump will have the powers of the presidency, but Musk could buy and sell him hundreds of times over and has a giant megaphone and a large and devoted following.
Steve LaBonne
@Kay: Good thing that bears absolutely no resemblance to anything I said.
Baud
@JaySinWA:
How about Supreme Leader?
cmorenc
I sure hope you are right that there are enough R Congressmen and Senators who will timely come to their senses and realize that a shutdown risks catalyzing a huge blue wave mid-term election in 2026. However, the more hard-RW ideological among them are in the thrall of believing that if they stand firm and don’t give an inch, they are on the pathway over the next 4 years to burn the Federal Government down to the ground back to more or less its state prior to FDR’s New Deal. That thought doesn’t merely give them a tingle up the leg, but an endless series of orgasms enhanced by political pron from the Heritage Foundation.
ArchTeryx
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Thanks for that link. It fills in all the deets I’d forgotten. “Legal” or not (what does that even mean with a completely lawless government?) wildcat strikes of vital people are one hell of an attention getter. And firing them all isn’t gonna work like it did for Reagan: That will just guarantee their airports shut down for an extended period. They’re grossly understaffed half the time. There isn’t a reserve army of unemployed ATC any more.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Omnes Omnibus:
I believe it was you who said “call your Congressperson” as the first comment in one of my posts, and I appreciate that spirit.
As far as outrage goes, I’m a little more outraged than some here, which is fine.
Miss Bianca
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
“I’d vote for a link – just not THAT link.”//
Omnes Omnibus
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Yeah, I don’t really do outrage very well.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Steve LaBonne:
You have demonstrated in this thread your insensitivity to the community norms that Kay and I are trying to point out. These norms are, IMO:
You violate all these norms, repeatedly. Normally I don’t engage with you because of it, but I made a special exception today in hopes that you might get a clue. Apparently you can’t.
Kay
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
I still haven’t seen any links to the Fighting Democrats in response to your argument. Its “tone” all the way down.
Baud
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
To be clear, you’re saying we can’t disagree with the reasoning set out in the OP unless we have a link to some outside source?
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Miss Bianca: “We have standards here, Miss!” :)
@cmorenc:
I base my take just on past experience of shutdowns, which have been catastrophic for the party initiating the shutdown (always Republicans), but we’re definitely in uncharted territory. I could be wrong. Another possibility is, like MyKevin, Pastor Mike brings the agreed-upon CR to the floor after some period of paid and then R’s vote him out as Speaker.
Steve LaBonne
@@mistermix.bsky.social: @@mistermix.bsky.social: Very Loomis-like. Here, I will give you not a mere link but Blow’s entire column, not paid for but purloined via archive.ph.
That raises the question: Should anyone feel guilt for choosing not to constantly ruminate or pre-emptively panic? For choosing to take a breath and a beat before re-engaging in the fight — against the denigration of women and minorities, for individual liberty and bodily autonomy, against cruelty and for democracy itself — that is almost surely in the offing once Donald Trump returns to power?
Absolutely not.
First, taking time to lick wounds speeds their healing. Second, outrage is expensive. It consumes a tremendous amount of fuel, which at some point must be replenished. We do so by taking breaks to sit in solitude, to touch grass, to be truly present with loved ones and to clarify our purpose.
As Toni Morrison said in an interview long ago: “It’s not possible to constantly hone on the crisis. You have to have the love, and you have to have the magic. That’s also life.”
When you reconnect to what you love, you remember why you fight. And sometimes resistance to the spectacle mushrooms in the shadow of the spectacle.
It would be a mistake for anyone to confuse a temporary disconnection for a permanent acquiescence, to believe that liberals will be satisfied to form a mournful cortege marching helplessly toward Inauguration Day. People won’t passively abide what they experience as oppression. They will chafe at it and buck under the weight of it. The quiet you hear is the storing of energy for the political battles to come, which is itself part of the fight.
It may not be clear what issue or person or group will galvanize opposition to Trump’s second term. But any assumption that an opposition won’t rise or any revisionist history that casts resistance as something unique to Democrats would be a misreading of contemporary movements.
In 2008, after Barack Obama was elected but before his inauguration, when he — like Trump this year — was named Time magazine’s person of the year, few would have predicted the rise of the Tea Party movement just a few months later. At that moment, Republicans were engaged in the same kind of hand-wringing and soul-searching that Democrats are presently engaged in.
Yet the Tea Party became the primary vehicle for obstructionism during Obama’s eight years in office. It was not only anti-Obama and anti-government; it was also anti-Republican Party establishment.
As Democrats look for a way forward, it should not be a surprise if what emerges as Trump’s opposition is similarly hostile to the Democratic Party as presently constituted.
A resistance to Trump rose during his first term, and one rose against President Biden. This is just the normal way of things in today’s politics.
So as we watch Trump’s cavalcade of dubious cabinet picks, and as we see various individuals and institutions engaged in what can only be called an anticipatory obeisance — what my colleague Michelle Goldberg described this week as “the great capitulation,” bowing to Trump to avoid his potential wrath — it’s true that resistance has yet to summon the full energy of liberals, even in disgust. After all, there is very little that average citizens can do about the way the administration takes shape.
Yes, California is trying to “Trump-proof” itself, and organizations like the A.C.L.U. are preparing to do battle with Trump’s agenda. However, those efforts, too, are largely beyond the involvement of average citizens.
But when Trump takes office again, the response of the public to his policies will have sway, and if that response is disapproval, and if it becomes organized and focused, it could be a formidable obstacle to Trump fully realizing his aims.
Very likely, many of the people now engaged in restorative detachment will be the force behind such a movement. So, again: Don’t feel guilty for resting. Energy conserved now will be crucial later.
West of the Rockies
@TBone:
Mike Johnson doesn’t look like a Mike. He looks like a Percival or Templeton or Squigmeier.
Emily B.
For those who are interested, here’s a gift link to the Charles Blow article in the NYT. Apparently I am violating a new site norm, but I think people deserve the right to make up their minds for themselves.
I have no love for the NYT but I do have access to the site through work. Blow is a solid progressive voice and one of the few NYT columnists that I miss after canceling my own subscription last summer.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Baud:
No, what I’m saying is that if you make a general statement such as “X said Y in interview Z”, and Y is inflammatory or stupid, then bring a link to Z. That’s it. Seems like a reasonable ask.
Example is yesterday when you made a statement about the new Progressive Caucus leader, Casar, about the interview he gave and something about trans rights. I thought, “Well, that doesn’t sound right, the Progs wouldn’t elect a guy like that” and went and googled and quoted a big excerpt from it. Then you and I had some basis in fact for the disagreement. I thought it was a standard pivot, you thought otherwise, but our disagreement was then based in fact, not on a headline you read somewhere.
I think it would be more courteous for you to bring the link, not for me to go hunt it down.
bbleh
Clearly, most Congressional Dems were going through a mourning period of silence, but … some of them seem to be remembering that Trump’s first Presidency consisted of a lot of rakes to the face. And @Steve LaBonne:
Count me as still among the skeptics. As I think Bouie or Willis observed, Dems showed more energy opposing AOC than they have so far opposing the Orange Thing and Elmo. And there is ALWAYS something to oppose — look at Faux News’ MO. Take something out of Project 2025. Keep firing at his idiot nominees and the idiotic things they say and have said. Keep pounding on tariffs, which actually seemed to be getting some traction in the MSM. OPPOSE, dammit, and stop worrying about Just Exactly How Justifiable it is or whether the Orange Thing or some media toady will say something uncomplimentary about you.
I do hope that this signals the beginning of a genuine, sustained opposition. But if this kind of debacle is what it takes to get them to start saying halfway-tough things, it’s not yet clear to me that it will in fact be sustained.
Steve LaBonne
Note that Blow is very open to the idea that opposition to Trump may include opposition to inadequate performance by Democrats. I agree. What I am saying is that firing up the outrage of the day machine at this early date is a tedious waste of energy.
Baud
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Just trying to understand your rules. I had linked the article in an earlier post but I think it didn’t transfer when I copied the post.
LAC
@Emily B.: Thank you! Did not know that new site norms, including only citing approved dude-bro links, are here in time for Christmas/Kwanza, but ooookay…
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Emily B.:
I listen to what Jamelle Bouie says on other platforms but don’t read his columns. He’s on Tik-Tok and Bluesky does a really good job there.
So I’m not reading the column, because engagement with what is printed in the Times is something I’m trying to avoid. If it’s a good point by a progressive, there are probably a lot of other progressives making the point.
This might seem doctrinaire and I’m certainly not going to do anything about people posting Times links. But that’s my position on it, and I’m doing my best to stick to it, mainly because I’ve made a resolution to vary and expand my media diet.
Harrison Wesley
@West of the Rockies: To me he looks like he should be playing Norman Bates in a Psycho remake.
karen gail
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Not sure where this would fit: I am so old and was part of a family that kept dairies of what was going on in the world around them As great grandpa once told me, this country is new; he lived in what was wilds of Canada which became one of the states in US.
He believed that the young men who were dead set against British rule and founding own country were building on rotten foundation. His point was slavery, genocide and WASP foundation was wrong; those weren’t the words he used but they are the words we would use today. Great grandpa died in the early 1950’s he left journal and diaries of his days and his beliefs; today with Trump and crew is exactly what he fled and warned family about.
How bad, how sad that we are living the world that prophets warned us about, even if many of them were fiction writers.
KatKapCC
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
I don’t know if I am the “another commenter” you’re referring to, but I know I was at least one of them who offered very-much-NOT-baseless critique. And I don’t know how many times I have to say this, but: I READ THE WHOLE STATEMENT. And it was still weak sauce. And multiple trans folks I know — including my partner and my cousin — all agreed it did not exactly give them warm fuzzies of feeling loved and supported. But for some reason, you have decided that you get to be the arbiter of what is and isn’t strong support for trans people, and no matter what anyone says in disagreement, you determine they are wrong because they are disagreeing with you.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Baud:
That’s fine, and as “norms” they’re suggestions, which I’m sure will be violated, not “rules”. The only rules are the commenting policy, and as I’ve posted, we don’t ban people except for truly egregious things, and I agree with John on that one.
But, please keep in mind that I can’t read all the comments on this blog. There are thousands every day. So as a courtesy, I’d appreciate that we follow the norm of when X says controversial Y in publication Z, that a link to Z is provided, even if you did it in a prior comment.
Jackie
@JaySinWA:
How about The Actual President?
Until TCFG grows a pair and boots Musk to the curb, Musk is president-elect.
O. Felix Culpa
@Steve LaBonne: 100% agree with you. Thank you for your voice here. LGM’S loss is our gain.
Omnes Omnibus
We seem to be disappear up our own assholes here. Maybe we can all take a couple of deep breaths and try to grant an assumption of the good faith to our fellow jackals.
Miss Bianca
@Emily B.: Thanks! I don’t subscribe to the NYT because my feelings about it are very similar to MM’s, I’m sure, but I’m always happy to mooch-read something from one of their decent writers. :)
JaySinWA
@Baud: Supreme leader for Musk? Submissive or Supine Leader for Trump?
I saw one wag refer to Musk as Real President.
Barbara
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
I understand not linking to things behind a paywall and trying to expand media sources. I try to do the same thing. But I find it hard to overlook the follow the herd mentality of the above statement.
Steve LaBonne
@Miss Bianca: If I had ever had a FTFNYT subscription, which I have not, I would have canceled it in the Judith Miller era.
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: +1
Hang in there, everyone.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Soprano2
@feebog: I almost spit on my monitor when I read your last sentence!! You win the thread, I think.
bjacques
@JaySinWA: “President Musk” oughta do it. Keep it simple.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Steve LaBonne: Bemused Senior berated me for continuing my FTFNYT subscription. I cancelled in July.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@KatKapCC:
You are not the other commenter. We had our back-and-forth after I had hunted up the link to the NBC News interview, which was highly summarized by them.
I did go back and copy/paste Casar’s entire editorial about trans rights. Is that the statement you’re talking about? Because I couldn’t see how that statement could be much clearer on Casar’s view on trans rights.
Anyway, my plan for this AM was to go back and dig up the original interview or other interviews he gave and see what he had to say, but instead here we are. I’m probably done for the day just because I do have a part-time day job. It is on my list to write that post and I invite you to comment on it when I get it done.
Kay
Mister mix wasn’t the only person concerned about what the head of the DCCC siad yesterday – the politico piece blew up because she put entitlements on the table. Not complicated or nuanced at all.
You should be expect a fight if Democrats do that. Social Security is not negotiable. It’ll be very divisive because it’s an actual disagreement. Those are divisive. I know what side I’m on. I’m on the side of the safety net.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: I forget to say “with the obvious exception of Steve in the WTF.”
Soprano2
@Another Scott: Why on Earth do reporters waste their valuable question time asking such stupid questions? Can you imagine them EVER asking a Republican if they would vote for a Democrat for Speaker? Yet another piece of evidence, as if we needed any, that Washington is set up for Republicans.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@twbrandt:
Yeah, apologies to all Canadians and all Lightfoot fans for that one, it’s pretty ugly.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Barbara:
Hmm, maybe a better way of phrasing it is that the NYT is not the sole source of progressive or any other opinions, so I’m not concerned that I’m missing some special insight by not reading their opinion columnists’ output in the NYT.
The goal of my new media diet is to expand the variety of opinions I read, not limit them.
Kay
The NYPD are attacking the Amazon strikers in the Bronx. Gross.
They think they work for Bezos. Dumbasses. If he had his way they’d be making 15 bucks an hour.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Kay:
Yep, it was mostly crickets, Ro Khanna (not helping), and the ones I mentioned above. But faced with an awful truth, people generally like blaming the messenger.
Renie
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Agree 100% since I am one of those who just lurk now because of the patrochial views of commenters who keep digging and digging deeper into that view.
JaySinWA
@Jackie:
@JaySinWA: Well acktually/s. I guess that would be AP-E. Related to the Bored Ape NFT craze.
piratedan
hey, can we all just chill the fuck out please?
Dems are being Dems, sometimes feckless, sometimes completely lost in nuance and optics and short on ruthlessness.
The GOP are introducing megalomania into their already full menu of cruel, cowardly, corruptible behavior.
instead, lets put our brains together to commit perfect crimes, like seeing if we can get Murk to gift the entire GOP caucus cybertrucks that cannot be toggled off of self-driving mode….
Soprano2
@Omnes Omnibus: This reminds me of when I worked for Prime Trucking. That’s the only place I’ve seen people curse on the interoffice messaging system (a precursor to e-mail) and angrily chew each other out publicly and then be ok in five minutes. People spoke their minds and didn’t mince words, but once the blowup was over it was over. It was a pretty unique workplace (they brought the remnants of the Christmas party open bar to the office and let people drink on New Year’s Eve!).
Juju
@@mistermix.bsky.social: I think Rand Paul’s other talent is arranging his “hair” so it will look “natural “.
Kay
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
I get nervous with men and Elon Musk (Not All Men) because there have always been bromance vibes with him, even among liberals.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Renie:
Thanks for speaking up. I hope the culture around here changes so that people don’t feel they need to immediately shout down somewhat opposing views.
TBone
@West of the Rockies: indeed. Or a Dexter.
Omnes Omnibus
@Juju: Okay, I will not stand for any suggestion that Rand Paul’s “hair” looks “natural.” That’s too much to take.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Kay:
Yeah, the thirst from people in addition to Ro Khanna is pretty worrisome, and there are others who are probably sucking up quietly. His money is very, very tempting, too, especially the way the US runs campaigns now.
Gin & Tonic
@Soprano2: I will don my asbestos underwear and state that, as a man of a certain age, I’ve always felt this works in exclusively-male (or almost-exclusively) workplaces. Or maybe used to. Like rugby, or some other contact sports – beat the shit out of each other then go for beers after.
prostratedragon
@sixthdoctor:
Truly an engastration of debacles.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: That is very true.
Geminid
@@mistermix.bsky.social: I thought it was good how you examined Rep. Casar’s remarks to give them a fuller context. I’ll point out out that while Casar happened to be the new chairman of the Progressive Caucus, nobody was “scapegoating” Democratic progressives.
But I wonder if you would have done this had Casar been from the moderate wing of the larger Democratic House caucus. I will make a very direct criticim here. While you are very focused on pushing back against people scapegoating the Party’s progressives, scapegoating moderates is a standard feature of many of your posts..
That’s your right and I respect that, and I also appreciate the hard work you contribute to this forum. But you can count on pushback if and when you trash large numbers of Congressional Democrats including leadership as a class by association with one particular Democrat..
However, you are right to caution against dragging disputes from one thread to another and I am just speaking prospectively here.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: lol!
p.a.
OT but atrios’ take on Tom F-Unit Friedman’s column today… OMFG (both for his takedown and for the article (Onion editors: “we’re out of business on this one”)
https://www.eschatonblog.com/2024/12/tom-friedman-ayahuasca-years.html
TBone
No comment, just a reminder
https://bsky.app/profile/fancysplace.bsky.social/post/3ldkjhqgpz22b
TBone
@p.a.: bwahahahaha!
rikyrah
Why aren’t y’all telling Elon Musk to take his ass back to Africa….. now this immigrant is telling Republicans in the house to shut the government down..
(https://x.com/WonderKing82/status/1869804665032057308?t=C5CXHkSxEpLuUogwTtx6_Q&s=03)
Lobo
Repetition: The eight scariest words in the English language, “I’m a billionaire and I’m here to help.”
(It is a paraphrase of what Reagan used) And yes, help means to FU everything for you!
Baud
rikyrah
Acyn (@Acyn) posted at 10:40 AM on Thu, Dec 19, 2024:
Jeffries: That bipartisan agreement has now been detonated because House Republicans have been ordered to shut down the government and hurt the very working-class Americans that many of them pretend to want to help https://t.co/rIvdrtb1qp
(https://x.com/Acyn/status/1869784767077724634?t=05XivUPjeGiZqOS1iu_y6g&s=03)
Kay
Here’s the link for the Amazon scuffle. Sorry. I’ve gotten lazy on links too.
It’s a video so don’t click if you don’t want.
I know we’re mad at the Teamsters president (justifiably!) but I think African American and Latino warehouse workers in NYC probably include some of our supporters.
Steve LaBonne
@rikyrah: Someone on That Other Blog pointed out that a way for Trump to get rid of Skum would be to put Stephen Miller to work challenging his immigration status because he lied on the application.
rikyrah
PHUCK OUTTA HERE!
Jonathan Karl (@jonkarl) posted at 10:20 AM on Thu, Dec 19, 2024:
In a conversation a few minutes ago, @realDonaldTrump told me, “There won’t be anything approved unless the debt ceiling is done with.”
He wants the debt ceiling eliminated or extended.
“If we don’t get it, then we’re going to have a shutdown, but it’ll be a Biden shutdown, because shutdowns only inure to the person who’s president.”
(https://x.com/jonkarl/status/1869779884253249842?t=dhyTr1CjCkLNIFl98L23Ag&s=03)
rikyrah
OF COURSE,
We’re talking about Lauren Underwood vs. AOC.
Underwood is who the AOC stans THINKS that she is, but, is not….in terms of substance.
👑 Mr. Weeks 👑 (@WonderKing82) posted at 10:05 AM on Thu, Dec 19, 2024:
They’re not the same. One actually works for their people in her district, and the other one is never in her district. AOC is nothing more than an opportunist, and I’m tired of yall comparing qualified Black women to that woman. She does absolutely nothing for my, her, district.
(https://x.com/WonderKing82/status/1869776180335067170?t=_Fp3_S93gu551MzvuRXl-A&s=03)
Kay
@rikyrah:
I’m always tempted to go to the “immigrant!” thing when annoying MAGAS on Tik Tok (I bet it’s effective) but I can’t go there. I love immigrants. Not him, but he’s not their fault.
rikyrah
Chris Murphy![]()
(@ChrisMurphyCT) posted at 8:54 AM on Thu, Dec 19, 2024:
What Musk and Ramaswamy and Trump are doing – shutting down the government and cutting off pay for our troops right at Christmas – is so so dark.
They are so filthy wealthy and out of touch and bored that they think it’s fun to mess with the lives of regular people for fun.
(https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1869758120446308675?t=DIpMHxlohu5RN9DFbGLljA&s=03)
rikyrah
Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) posted at 11:33 AM on Thu, Dec 19, 2024:
“Trump repeatedly promised voters that he would reduce prices to pre-covid levels. This pledge, which he’s already walked back, was never rooted in a real plan, but he skated by with help from a press that has spent nearly a decade normalizing his lies.” https://t.co/fMV76btvGn
(https://x.com/atrupar/status/1869798107506192574?t=4DpGw7IZL2v4UdXfyRpoNQ&s=03)
rikyrah
@Kay:
UH HUH
UH HUH
Another Scott
Meanwhile, a good reminder from Rebecca at Wonkette:
No matter what, real life isn’t pure. And purity kills. We all have to figure out how we navigate the horrors and infuriations and nonidealities. Being young and idealistic is fine, and important, but it’s also important to be able to rank relative harms and relative benefits and act based on those rankings.
Click on over. The whole thing is worth a read. Then come back.
Obligatory Reprise, for the Holidays – TBogg’s Mumia Sweatshirt.
Hang in there, everyone.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Kay
You know who kept us honest on links? Steeplejack. He would NAG on links. It was good! High standards.
I miss him.
Juju
@Omnes Omnibus: Does the concept of scare quotes elude you?
rikyrah
@Kay:
THIS doesn’t surprise me. They can’t wait for that full immunity.
Omnes Omnibus
@Juju: “No.”
Juju
@Omnes Omnibus: Also. Thanks for making me laugh out loud. I appreciate that.
Barbara
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Calling peoples’ views “parochial” suggests many things, but most obviously, that one’s own views have a broader and wider perspective. I would take that with a very strong dose of skepticism.
Once upon a time I was a recently minted lawyer working as a judicial clerk with a colleague newly minted from Harvard, one of the smartest people I have ever met. This was in 1988. She informed me that South African divestiture would be a major issue in the presidential campaign. She had worked her heart and soul on trying to get Harvard University to divest. The president of Harvard knew who she was on sight.
I remember telling her that I had my doubts — that I had lived for the last four years in North Carolina, including working in a restaurant with a diverse crew of people, and no one mentioned divestiture to me. She laughed. She said I was, basically, a rube.
The point is that she DID have a wider view of the world, and much more expansive understanding of what was at issue in the fight over divestiture, including the democratic future of South Africa — her view just wasn’t shared by many people at a level that it mattered to them when it came to how they would vote.
We get confused, I think, when we mistake what is likely a much better understanding of many things — transgender rights, for instance — with the idea that our views are shared or mainstream or obviously correct. Based on the results of the last election, I think that presumption of what is obvious has to be in some doubt.
At a minimum, we need to figure out how to frame things we believe in so that they are more persuasive to more people. And that is why I hate the knee-jerk criticism of so many statements from Democratic pols. It too frequently comes from a place of unexamined assumptions.
Kay
@rikyrah:
“Please don’t swoon over MarsMan and give away our safety net!”
Help. I feel poorly represented. I hate that.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I don’t think that word means what Trump thinks it means.
Omnes Omnibus
rikyrah
@Kay:
Damn straight.
NO NEGOTIATING ON SOCIAL SECURITY
MomSense
The example for me locally is an organization called Maine People’s Alliance. They had a big organizing weekend last weekend and are already getting good press and canvassing in Republican communities statewide to talk about protecting the safety net. They have a newspaper (also online) and a podcast. Contrary to the opinion that we should wait and react to what GOP say or do, it’s is much better to speak out before – prime the audience so they recognize what the GOP are doing because they’ve already heard the truth about it. We need to define the Republicans and their actions not wait to play defense in messaging.
Link to Maine public interview https://www.mainepublic.org/news/2024-12-15/maine-peoples-alliance-will-work-to-protect-federal-safety-net-programs-while-trump-is-in-office
Link to website. Check out their podcasts and articles. https://mainepeoplesalliance.org
Old School
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Here’s an article about opposition to Gaetz and Gabbard that mentions Jared Huffman, Dan Kildee, Richard Blumenthal, Dick Durbin and Becca Balint.
Here’s the letter against Pete Hegseth‘s nomination (PDF) signed by Elizabeth Warren, Richard Blumenthal, Mazie Hirono, Kirsten Gillibrand, Jacky Rosen, Tammy Duckworth, and Tim Kaine.
Steve LaBonne
@MomSense: Those are praiseworthy activities that are far more valuable than lazily attacking Democrats who supposedly are Doing It Wrong. Good for them.
wenchacha
@Gin & Tonic: I really don’t dig the combative style. Never have. I can hold my own with words, but when it gets loud and insulting, I’m out. My husband blames his years in the factory for his more shouty style.
A lot of people want to do roasts of opponents, and then be all, “just kidding.” There are those who think they have the gift of Don Rickles, but there’s nobody paying them. It’s ugly, and it can be hazardous to one’s health to be the target.
Then there’s the thing of taking offense where none was intended. It seems easy to do on the interwebs with strangers.
I wonder how shitty the citizenry were to each other on the daily, back in the latter days of Rome.
KatKapCC
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Joining a very very long list of words Trump does not know the meaning of.
prostratedragon
@Barbara:
One can lose details with too wide a perspective.
Soprano2
@Gin & Tonic: That is a more male way to iron out differences. This was a pretty mixed workplace, although most of the drivers were men. You had to have a tough hide to work there.
Kay
@Old School:
Thanks for the links. In the Olden Days we called that a sternly worded letter.
JaySinWA
Help myself to whatever I want.
Soprano2
@rikyrah: Funny how raising the debt ceiling suddenly isn’t a problem when the president is a Republican. *rolling my eyes really, really hard
Omnes Omnibus
@Soprano2: He ain’t president yet.
Baud
@Kay:
Sternly worded social media posts are how the kids do it.
At least until we elect Luigi Mangione.
Geminid
Many of Syria’s children have finished thrir firt full week back in school since the civil war heated up three weeks ago. They’ve had to deal with infrastructure pleblems; the interim government’s Minister of Education says half the nation’s schools were damaged or destroyed during Syria’s 13 years of civil war.
The Minister also made a pledge:
Because of the Islamist background of its leaders, there’s been a lot of scepticism regarding the new government’s commitment to human rights, and women’s rights in particular. I figure that’s why the Education Minister made this statement.
TBone
@Another Scott: you always bring great receipts.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: THIS
Tusk can kiss my big, wide map.
TBone
In honor of post title I’m listening to Gordon Lightfoot.
Albatrossity
Why not both?
Geminid
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I bet that is a statement written by someone besides Trump. From what I saw of him towards the end of the campaign, that guy would have hard time just pronouncing “inure.”
Trivia Man
My suggestion for a trump press conference: afyer he makes a statement, no matter the content, ask him “did you get elon’s permission to say that?”
Chief Oshkosh
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Eh, the most targeted approach would be to nick individual towers. Most airports that have enough activity to warrant a tower have enough variety in that activity to disrupt non-rich-boy jets. Sure there are plenty of non-towered airports that are frequented mainly by the true jet-set, but there’s not much to shut down there without having regional effects (e.g., fucking with Approach or Center is going to affect a lot more than IFR traffic at the one non-towered airport you want to affect).
As to simply saying “no private jets are allowed to operate,” how’s that going to work? What’s a private jet? Most of the “jet set” lease or are part of a partnership — all corporate. That grouping would include a lot of companies that aren’t rich people flitting off to Aspen, companies that instead move medical supplies/resources and other time-sensitive cargo, including patients ;), and other items that I wouldn’t want to be responsible for delaying. And some of these companies lease jets from companies that just lease jets. How is an overworked controller in the tower supposed to know who is using what jet for which purpose? The system isn’t set up that way.
As to the relatively few truly personally-owned jets, many don’t base out of Class Bravo airports, or even Class Charlie. So, yeah, you may somehow figure out one weird trick to disallow a truly personally-owned jet from operating from a relatively small airport, but then, you’re not having the impact you wanted when all of this started.
I maintain that the simpler, and possibly more useful, plan is to just deport Elon and Thiel. Elon especially is known to have broken immigration laws. Just grab him and dump his ass on the tarmac at MZY in the middle of the night. He’ll figure it out.
ETA: But again, I WISH we could have government shutdowns that just affected the assholes.
Kay
@Baud:
Sternly worded letters would elicit howls of derision on this site.
Still, I learned from the letter. The woman Hegsdeth raped was attending the Right wing conference with her husband and children. They were frantically searching for her as he confined her in his hotel room and raped her.
Chief Oshkosh
@Geminid: I’ll bet you further that Karl wrote it himself, There is no fucking way on this planet that Donald Jahosuphats Trump even knows that the letters i-n-u-r-e spells a word, much less what it means.
Baud
@Kay:
I understand online culture, even when I don’t align with it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: At this point in time, what signalling would you find acceptable from Dems?
prostratedragon
Norm Eisen:
JaySinWA
@Chief Oshkosh: It could be like the bigly big league mumble mouth explanation. He might have been trying to say injures instead of inures to. OTOH misusing a word is not out of the realm for him.
ETA either one of them
JaySinWA
@prostratedragon: Oh goody an FOIA request. We will get a response in a few months or years. I wonder if DOGE not being a real government entity will make it not subject to an FOIA. ETA, sorry they are papering the government entities for records. My mistake.
If it produces anything it will be helpful, perhaps as a post mortem.
Matt McIrvin
@Renie: Historically, there’s an association between left political criticism that mostly focuses on the failings of Democrats, and Green Party-style electoral sabotage funded by right-wing ratfuckers, and a lot of people here are really leery of that as a consequence.
But at the moment we’re right after the general election, so presumably this is the time when that association is going to be weakest. It has to be OK to criticize Democrats at some point or there’s no opportunity to improve the party. I admit my own preferences are to focus on advocating positions on the merits rather than the meta-discussion of what Democratic politicians are doing, but that’s me.
O. Felix Culpa
@JaySinWA: Any better ideas? Or are the Dems (and their allies) Doing It Rong™ again?
LAC
@JaySinWA:
The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requires federal agencies to respond to a request within 20 working days, excluding weekends and legal holidays. The time it takes to receive a response can vary depending on the complexity of the request and the agency’s backlog.
Request type
Typical processing time
Simple
1–5 workdays
Normal
6–20 workdays
Complex
21–60 workdays
Exceptional/voluminous
More than 60 workdays
Agencies may extend the response time by 10 working days in unusual circumstances, such as:
The request requires records from another facility
The request requires consultation with other agencies
The request involves a large volume of records
My retired hubby worked on these and I have had a few to handle in my fed career. You only get to push it forward by 20 days. We take them seriously, at least at the agency level
Sigh…
O. Felix Culpa
@LAC: Thank you. I appreciate it when facts overtake cynicism.
FWIW, my dad was a career federal worker too. He worked hard and was a true public servant. Even continued doing related work as a volunteer for years after he retired. I despise folks who sneer at government employees. They do a lot for little reward.
LAC
@O. Felix Culpa: Thank your Dad for his service. Yeah, our allies are… ummmm…something else.
Betty
@Baud: Trump has said he favors eliminating the debt ceiling. Dems should use the opportunity to do it. No more hostage taking Elizabeth Warren agrees.
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
I want to stop lowering standards. I want to stop pretending the bare minimum advocacy is excellent work.
I have watched the Democratic Party right themselves after THREE devastating losses – 2000, 2004 and 2016. They performed better forming an effective opposition after each of those losses.
TBone
@O. Felix Culpa:
You might enjoy this short read, in that same vein.
https://www.robertleefulghum.com/evangelist/
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay:
What does “not lowering standards” even mean? Please be specific in what you think they should be doing, otherwise we’re playing Calvinball: do something, just not that thing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: My point is that the sternly worded letter and other performative actions are all that are available right now with respect to nominations.
Chris Johnson
@feebog: What with that, Rand Paul, and MTG’s angle, I think it’s pretty clear that Russia’s trying to move heaven and earth to make Elon Musk Speaker of the House. repeat, TRYING. I couldn’t begin to guess on whether that is at all practical, might fly as well as Matt Gaetz’s Attorney Generalship.
Apparently Trump is more subdued (Trae Crowder’s skews crew are puzzled at him not being more Trumpy over the drone stuff).
My gut tells me you are not going to see a response from him no matter how much he’s goaded about Musk being the real President. That would be because he knows. He is aware Putin would happily just work with Musk, perhaps crown him President somehow, just run with the guy. Trump is an asshole and a lousy agent. Vance is a nonentity. Someone like Tucker Carlson is too ambitious and hungry for power and wouldn’t be trusted by Putin. But Musk has everything to offer and so you’re not going to see Trump throw Musk under the bus, because he CAN’T. They both work for the same boss and Putin wouldn’t like it, not one bit.
Go ahead and goad him, though. It will make him miserable because it’s true, and it might make Musk more irrational and prone to ketamine-fueled blunders. These people fuck up so hard they CREATE the deep state they so fear.
catclub
Ask newt Gingrich about that.
Captain C
@piratedan:
Or if we can get him to be the first person on one of his company’s test flights to Mars, while also convincing him to go cheap on food and other life support.
Steve LaBonne
The Republican appropriators claim to have a deal. Now let’s see if they can actually pass it.
Scout211
Republican House CR Take Two.
LAC
@Captain C: Or get him to be the first to dive into Jupiter’s atmosphere for the huge diamonds. We know that south africans have an affinity for diamonds!
O. Felix Culpa
@Captain C: I like the way you think.
Geminid
@Betty: Democrats will only have the opportunity to eliminate the Debt Ceiling if Mike Johnson let’s legislatuon to that effect onto the House floor for a vote and he’s not about to. Most House Republicans can’t stand the idea.
Now there’s talk of a compromise whereby two successive Debt Ceiling raises could be passed under reconciliation rules while Congress passws a continuing resolution to avert a government shutdown at midnight Friday night. Earlier today Reporter Rese Gorman posted:
I found this on Laura Rozen’s social media feed; she posts on Twitter and Blue Sky. Rozen is a good aggregator of sound reporting on Washington, D.C. and foreign matters, besides providing a good analysis of her own in longer pieces on her diplomatic Substack account..
I first encountered Laura Rozen through Cheryl Rofer, who seldom if ever gives a bad steer.
prostratedragon
A new word, from Karen Attiah:
The full post has a handy usage and pronunciation guide, as well as many comments referring to synonyms in other languages. The present farkhakte situation is likely to require that we learn them all, and fill in any gaps with new ones.
Baud
@Geminid:
Same bill. But with two year debt limit suspension. Won’t pass, probably.
https://politicalwire.com/2024/12/19/republicans-announce-funding-agreement/
George
@LAC:
As part of my case against a federal agency, I filed a FOIA request three years ago. Despite promises from that agency and letters from my attorney, I still have yet to see a single responsive document.
Renie
@Matt McIrvin: thank you taking the time to reply but my issue was about commenter’s posting patriarchal comments.
LAC
@George: Without knowing more about your situation and what responsive documents you are looking for, I can only comment on what the regs are and my experience.
Renie
@Baud: Luigi was extradicted to NYC today with a sh$t load of law enforcement. Absolute waste of manpower for a guy all shackled. Check out the photos.
Baud
@Renie:
I saw them. They’ll make great campaign posters.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Geminid:
I’ll fully accept that I have criticized moderate Dems. Have done, will do, especially if they are more moderate than their district would tolerate.
Your view, if I understand it correctly, is that I wouldn’t have looked at the Casar comment so closely if I was told it had been made by a member of the moderate caucus (no such thing in reality but you get the idea). That is true, and the reason is that the moderate caucus has already made some comments intimating that too much “woke” is what caused our loss. I would be surprised if the newly elected head of the Progressive Caucus would not have a decent record on trans rights. I would not be as surprised if a moderate member made that comment.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Renie:
Security Performance Theater.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Old School: Thanks for providing links. I was looking for tv hits and social media posts, and re-skeeting them on Bluesky when I found them.
I’m going to make a general comment on writing letters, which is something Senators and Reps love to do. If the letter isn’t also posted on your socials, it’s like it never happened.
So in this instance, Gillibrand did not post it on Bluesky or Twitter. Maisie Hirono didn’t either. Nor did Blumenthal. I was surprised at how empty my Senator, Gillibrand’s, socials were, btw, very little going on. Hirono and Blumenthal are pretty good. I stopped looking after that, but if someone has something I missed, let me know.
Hirono is not on Bluesky, but Gillibrand and Blumenthal are, so I gave them both a follow so I can see how they’re using it.
Captain C
@Renie: That’s some golden overtime for someone.
George
@LAC:
Oh, I agree with your comment about the time periods the government is held to. It’s just that I’ve found in my case that the agency can pretty much drag its feet until it is walking around on ankle stumps.
Geminid
@@mistermix.bsky.social: I have no problem with you criticising moderate Democrats. That’s to be expected. I just don’t like it when you whip up animus towards one moderate Democrat and then direct it at moderate Democrats as a class through guilt-by-association tactics.
You get plenty of positive feedback when you do because a lot of other people here share your general view that the Party’s biggest problems can be blamed on its more moderate members, but I don’t and if I think you are treating another Democrat unfairly I’ll stand up for them even if I’m the only person here who does.
glory b
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
By what measure do you decide what their district tolerates?
Wouldn’t their continuing presence in the House indicate that they are voting the way their district approves?
glory b
@Renie: Actually, that’s not for him, it’s for those who might take the “Free Luigi!!!” exhortations seriously.
Yes, I have worked for a federal law enforcement agency in another lifetime.
satby
@LAC: 😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉 oh, well played!
glory b
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
As I have responded, the show of force is for anyone who might try to free him.
In this case, it’s not theatre.
Uncle Cosmo
@Baud: How about Muskolini?
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Geminid:
Well, I don’t think I do a lot of guilt-by-association, but feel free to call me out if you think I’m doing that (seriously). I think it depends on your perspective as to whether I get a lot of positive feedback by attacking moderate Dems. My sense is that there’s a lot of sensitivity about saying anything negative about almost any Democrat on this site. Scroll up in the comments if you think I’m wrong.
@glory b:
The tool I use is the Cook Political Partisan Voting Index. This indicates the average lean of the district based on the presidential vote for the last few cycles. So R+6 is a district that generally went for the Republican nominee by 6 points in the last few elections. Not perfect, but generally decent basic tool.
And, no, their continuing presence in the House does not necessarily indicate that they are doing what their constituents want. Launching a primary challenge is a time- and money-intensive job. So let’s look at AOC’s primary challenge of Joe Crowley in 2018, which is the poster child for this kind of challenge. There’s been a lot of redistricting in NY, but right now that’s a D+28 district. So let’s say it was at least D+20 in 2018 (probably an underestimate). Crowley had a lot of money and had a lot of support, but she beat him 57-43. Why? Because for the first time in a long time, the Democrats in that district had a compelling choice, and they took it. This is true for a lot of districts. Incumbents have a lot of money to fend off primary challenges, so challengers don’t try
My general rule of thumb is a Democrat should at least be as “left” as their district.