Biden commutes most federal death row sentences to life in prison before Trump takes office. Biden, the actual pro-life president. www.cnn.com/2024/12/23/p…
— Jersey Craig (@jerseycraig.bsky.social) December 23, 2024 at 5:20 AM
He’s taken heat from all sides on the topic already, and President Biden still chose clemency. Per CNN:
President Joe Biden announced Monday that he is taking 37 people off federal death row to serve out life sentences behind bars — a decision that leaves only three federal prisoners awaiting execution when President-elect Donald Trump takes office next month…
Notably, the president did not commute the sentences of three people whose crimes included mass shootings or acts of terrorism: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, one of two brothers responsible for the deadly Boston Marathon bombing in 2013; Dylann Roof, a White nationalist who massacred nine people at a historically Black church in Charleston, South Carolina, in 2015; and Robert Bowers, who killed 11 worshippers at Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life Synagogue in 2018…
While the Justice Department under Trump could resume seeking the death penalty in future cases, it cannot undo any commutations that Biden has issued.
(Guessing that executing Dylan Roof will not be anywhere near the top of the incoming maladministration’s agenda.)
As we confront a second Trump presidency, here’s a path forward: 🧵
— Elizabeth Warren (@elizabeth-warren.bsky.social) December 19, 2024 at 1:27 PM
I ❤️ my senior Senator. Picking off the tyrant’s army from cover, an American tradition as old as Lexington & Concord…
1. We have to fight every fight in Congress. We won’t always win, but we can slow or sometimes limit Trump’s destruction. With every fight, we can build political power to put more checks on his administration and build the foundation for future wins.
During the Trump years, Congress stepped up its oversight of his unprecedented corruption and abuses of power.
In the Senate, Democrats gave no quarter to radical Trump nominees; we asked tough questions and held the Senate floor for hours to slow down confirmation and expose Republican extremism.
These tactics doomed some nominations entirely, laid the groundwork for other cabinet officials to later resign in disgrace, and brought scrutiny that somewhat constrained Trump’s efforts.
Remember the GOP’s attempts to repeal the ACA? Dems did not have the votes to stop them. Nevertheless, patients kept up a relentless rotation of meetings in Congress, activists in wheelchairs performed civil disobedience, and lawmakers used every tactic possible. The GOP lost.
Democrats should also acknowledge that seeking a middle ground with a man who calls immigrants “animals” and says he will “protect” women “whether the women like it or not” is unlikely to land in a good place.
Uniting against Trump’s legislative agenda is good politics because it is good policy. Democratic opposition to Trump’s tax bill drove Trump’s approval ratings to what was then the lowest levels of his administration, helping spark one of the largest blue waves in recent history.
2. We must fight Trump in the courts. Yes, extremist courts, including a Supreme Court stocked with MAGA loyalists, are poised to rubber-stamp Trump’s lawlessness. But litigation can slow Trump down, give us time to prepare and help the vulnerable, and deliver some victories.
3. I understand my assignment in the Senate, and we must focus on what each of us can do. Whether it’s running for office, supporting a neighbor’s campaign, or getting involved in an organization taking action, we all have to continue to make investments in our democracy.
Our work must include states that are passed over as “too red.” The political position we’re in is not permanent, and we have the power to make change if we fight for it.
4. While still in charge of the Senate and the White House, we must work with urgency and do all we can to safeguard our democracy.
To resist Trump’s threats to abuse state power against what he calls “the enemy within,” Pentagon leaders should issue a directive now reiterating that the military’s oath is to the Constitution.
And Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer must use every minute of the end-of-year legislative session to confirm federal judges and key regulators—none of whom can be removed by the next President.
To those feeling despair: remember, every step toward progress in American history came after the darkness of defeat. Abolitionists, suffragettes, Dreamers, and marchers for civil rights and marriage equality all faced impossible odds, but they persisted. Now it is our turn.
Read my full op-ed on a path forward: time.com/collection/t…
— Elizabeth Warren (@elizabeth-warren.bsky.social) December 19, 2024 at 1:27 PM
My favorite holiday fantasy: President Biden’s final gift to the nation is an announcement he’s stepping down early, and making Kamala Harris our 47th president. Hey, we all need a dream!
President Biden and I have taken action to lower health care costs because we know every American deserves access to affordable health care. pic.twitter.com/vRLjh9i80k
— Vice President Kamala Harris (@VP) December 22, 2024
On The Road – ema – NYC Christmas Lights 2024
Baud
You persist, AL. I just sort of subsist.
Trivia Man
But step down after January 6. We need MVP in charge if the senate in that day.
narya
I share the fantasy of Biden stepping down January 18. That makes allllll of TCFG’s stupid 47 crap worthless, among other things.
Jackie
Joe stepping down early this late in the day would be a mistake imo. It would look like the theatre it indeed would be. If Biden was to have done it, it should have happened in July – when he dropped out of the presidential race.
Ten Bears
Free Leonard Peltier
narya
More seriously, I’m so pleased Biden commuted those death sentences, thereby preventing a killing spree by TCFG.
Dorothy A. Winsor
At this very moment, I’m wearing the T-shirt that says “Nevertheless, she persisted.”
Barbara
Bravo President Biden.
Barbara
@Ten Bears: A gentle push back. I just hate this side of Dems. No matter how incredibly brave and generous the action, the response of too many people is the equivalent of not giving credit because more could have been done. God it grates.
Dorothy A. Winsor
The idea of Biden stepping down and Harris becoming #47 amuses me because Trump would have to junk all his merch, and some of his followers would have to toss what they’ve already bought. Suckers!
Mousebumples
Good morning, all. Happy holidays and happy almost Christmas for those who celebrate.
Professor Bigfoot
Anyone want to place bets on whether Trump executes or pardons the remaining 3? ESPECIALLY Dylann Roof?
Baud
@Mousebumples:
I do not celebrate mornings.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
I had the same dark thought.
Still, I’m opposed to the death penalty, so it would be the right thing for the wrong reason.
narya
@Dorothy A. Winsor: how are you and Mr DAW feeling?
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
dww44
I’ve not read any pushback of the stories in Newsweek and the WSJ about how the WH kept Americans in the dark about how long and how much Biden was unable to function effectively. Going back to 2021.
I’ve a close relative who is always ready to find Democrats as guilty of lying as Republicans are. While she almost always votes Democratic she’s also always jumping on stories that prove how there’s no honesty among any politicians.
Trivia Man
@Jackie: there would have been some advantages, but IMHO the extra work would have made campaigning harder. Plenty of opportunities for intentional fuckery at key moments to take her off the trail or put her in impossible choices.
It is possible, at his age, he might have an actual health emergency between now and then that would warrant stepping down.
I have heard some argument, from women and BIPOC, that it would be an insult. “Pfft. Typical DEI. The only way a person like her could ever be president is a gift. She didnt earn it.”
I disagree. But as a white, cis, penis- american i will shut up and let those communities debate that internally.
Ohio Mom
Yeah, stepping down so Harris could be #47 is very much NOT Biden’s style. He brought dignity back to the White House, to his very last day there. He makes jokes but he is not a jokester or a prankster.
Still, a fun fantasy to relish. Any fantasy where Trump is humiliated is an enjoyable exercise.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@narya: We’re hanging in there. Mr DAW is off to play bridge this morning, and I’m going to the gym. I’ve found that our bodies work well, until they don’t.
Baud
@dww44:
About ⅓ of Democrats are only Democrats so that they can look down on other Democrats.
satby
Sure, why not kick Biden on his way out by demanding he leave extra early, and let’s insult Kamala Harris with a condolence prize temporary Presidency as a bonus.
Soprano2
@Trivia Man: I agree that it would be an insult. I don’t want him to do it.
moonbat
@Barbara: Amen. This was an excellent thing Biden did.
And I have LONG hoped for Peltier’s pardon.
Soprano2
@dww44: I heard an interview with Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash) when I first woke up this morning; my alarm radio is still on NPR because my husband likes to listen to it. They call him a “top Democrat”, but I had never heard of him. The gist of the interview was mostly that he thought Biden shouldn’t have run for a second term, and that it was hard to get Biden on the phone but that wasn’t unusual for any president. That’s probably much less dramatic than the WSJ made it out to be.
Ben Cisco
@Trivia Man: It would absolutely be seen that way, and it would definitely not be a good look.
The time for making MVP the President was on Election Day.
narya
@satby: good points. Honestly, I don’t expect it—and I only “want” it to poke TCFG. Which, in this case, isn’t a good reason.
moonbat
@dww44: Tell her to watch the one on one YouTube interview that Meidas News did with Biden last week and see whether she thinks he needs covering up for.
Ohio Mom
@dww44: Biden does look frailer to me. The presidency ages everyone, except Trump because he put no work in, did not let the worries of the world cross his mind.
But of what I’ve seen on video — admittedly not much — Biden still has all his marbles.
Have none of these commenters known any elderly people? It’s not unusual to keep your mind while your body crumbles. Exhibit number one in my life is my 93 y.o. MIL. Can’t walk, can hardly stand up but her brain is still at it.
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all!
Biden may not be the best president ever, but he’s in the top 3 in my book.
An honorable man.
Baud
@Ohio Mom:
I can’t imagine what the election outcome did to him. He honestly believed in Americans.
Starfish (she/her)
@Ohio Mom: He is much frailer than he was AND the presidency ages everyone. Put an age cap on it.
Do the Senate too. The thing where 90 yos who are not quite there are being kept in power by the competency of their staffers is not great.
Baud
@Starfish (she/her):
And age cap would be more principled than ad hoc determinations.
But people prefer the latter.
Cheryl from Maryland
@satby: Exactly. It’s an unnecessary stunt.
LAC
@satby: a win win, right? Why give Biden a proper send off when we can give him a middle finger and give Kamala a taste of what we refused to vote her for? Happy holidays! 🙄
different-church-lady
“Oh. Well then I’m done with Democrats.”satby
Yes.
zhena gogolia
@narya:
I was so happy to have this in my e-mail this morning:
Starfish (she/her)
@zhena gogolia: Thank you for writing about it!
satby
@Starfish (she/her): age caps and term limits for elected officials are called elections. And a demented old liar just got elected, so age and dementia are no barrier if people refuse to treat elections seriously. So the solution is better voters, then the other problems tend to recede. People need to quit expecting one weird trick will somehow save the day.
Joe Falco
So open thread? I’m making last minute preparations for travel tomorrow. Tonight is baking cookies and packing bags then heading to the in-laws near Nashville tomorrow afternoon for a Christmas overnight trip to spend the holiday morning with the kids before heading back to ATL that same day.
Cookie to-do list:
No bake chocolate peanut butter oatmeal cookies
Old-fashioned chocolate chip cookies
different-church-lady
@dww44: “Why push back against them when you can just embrace them?” — Democrats, July 2024
RaflW
Senate Democrats like Amy K. who often talk about bipartisanship should also acknowledge that seeking a middle ground with a party that demonizes immigrants, strips trans citizens of their rights to bodily autonomy, and goes on TV all the time to call Democrats radical socialist and other ridiculous slander, is unlikely to land in a good place.
Senators may lunch together, but even just on policy terms, they are not your good friends. Act like you know that.
Starfish (she/her)
@satby: We have a minimum age for President that is quite high! We should have a maximum age too! We don’t go “Oh, voting can determine the rules so any 25 yo should be able to run.”
Betty Cracker
I woke up in a terrible panic because I realized I hadn’t checked on my grandmother recently, and I promised my mom on her deathbed that I’d look after her mother. But my grandmother has been dead for almost nine years, so I’m not neglecting her. Maybe the feeling was related to a dream about the old lady that I can’t remember now. Sure was a weird way to wake up — not recommended.
satby
@narya: not at all a good reason and the kind of stunt we can expect from the other side, who thinks stunts are “governing”.
different-church-lady
@Professor Bigfoot: Pardon nothing, he’ll give Roof a cabinet position.
Baud
You know what’d be wild. If he really wasn’t to one who did it.
Rusty
I strongly oppose the death penalty and I was hoping for this. And yeah, let’s celebrate a win for decency and mercy and not start immediately crapping all over it. This is good, decent, and merciful. Thank you President Biden.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker: I often have dreams that I’ve left my father alone and I have no idea who’s taking care of him. He’s been dead since 1984.
satby
@Starfish (she/her): and an arbitrary age cap would most likely has deprived the country of Biden as President, the best president for all working people in my 70 year lifetime; also the first to go all in on the economic theories that lifted this country out of the pandemic to first place in the world, which we’ll soon lose.
narya
@zhena gogolia: Agree! I was truly hoping for this, and I’m so glad he did it. Full stop.
Suzanne
@Starfish (she/her): Agree: age cap. If there’s an age floor, there can be an age cap.
narya
@satby: Yes. Biden is a better person than I am. :-)
And, despite my original comment, I appreciate your pushback.
Starfish (she/her)
@satby: We are not going to use the “What if legal abortion killed the world’s most famous violinist?” argument on the Presidency.
Because the answer in this case like that one is “too bad.”
Having an age limit of 75 would have spared us from a second Trump presidency where appointing one of Mitt Romney’s dressage horses to the cabinet would probably be better than what he actually chose.
Josie
@Betty Cracker:
I have had dreams of my husband and my oldest son, who have both passed on. I wake up, and for a few seconds I think they are still alive. It takes a bit before reality intrudes.
Omnes Omnibus
I am glad Biden did this. I am disappointed that he didn’t do all 40, but I understand why.
satby
@Starfish (she/her): the minimum is set in the Constitution. No maximum is.
And I generally think older people should make way for younger ones, but none of our younger Democratic presidents accomplished what Biden did in directly refuting supply side economics. Because he was old enough to have working knowledge of the before Reagan/ Greenspan axis of evil. And superior knowledge of how to work the levers of power in Congress. Experience counts too.
Edit: and that’s not the argument I am making, so try addressing the one I am. Edit 2. Actually, don’t bother.
different-church-lady
Only people born on even-numbered days should be allowed to be president.
Ohio Mom
@satby: I am totally against term limits. Some right-wing or Libertarian group (from out of town and there was not thorough reporting at the time) underhandedly pushed for them for Cincinnati City Council and it’s been a circus ever since.
Turns out having seasoned elected officials can make for effective government; always having a new group in those seats allows them to be steamrolled by the local fat cats.
I don’t have an opinion on age limits, I can see arguments on both sides. I think ideally, bowing out as you age would be a good norm but we don’t have norms anymore.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Thank you Senator Warren. Other Dems in Congress, please take note.
And what satby said in #41 above, elections. The general ageism that some commenters channel on this and related other issues is consistent and telling.
That being said, my party should be doing a damn better job of primarying candidates so that *elections* are the way to vet whether or not somebody is “too old” for the job.
Term limits for legislative positions is also bad in that it essentially allows lobbyists, over time, to be the ones writing legislation. I can’t tell you how many times I’d hear (R) legislators back in Misery say “well, I’ll vote for whatever this is because by the time we feel it’s effects, I’ll be term-limited out.”
Starfish (she/her)
@satby: The constitution did not write itself. It was written by people.
“other countries like Canada enforce retirement ages on judges and senators”
Betty Cracker
@zhena gogolia: It’s a terrible feeling! Sort of a much more fraught version of the terrible school-related dreams I used to have when I’d realize halfway through a semester that I’d never been to a class I was enrolled in or that I’d forgotten a crucial exam, etc.
RaflW
@Trivia Man: I don’t know what MVP’s goals may be, but if she’s thinking of running again (and at this point, a lane seems available), hamstringing her to one electable term/instant lame duck for the funnoyance of depriving Trump of the ’47’ moniker seems like a poor move by Democrats.
If for some legit reason Biden needs to call her up, ok, but I think he can make it 28 more days
(Did I make up funnoyance? I see a usage in ref to the Flaming Lips from 2011, so not quite original.)
Ohio Mom
@Betty Cracker: I hate waking up at the tail end of a bad dream. Often I try to go back to sleep and make a different ending happen and sometimes that actually works. But other times it just comes out worst.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: Used to have? I still have those.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I’ve dreamt that I spent so much time on Balloon Juice that I was neglecting my children.
I only have one child.
Shalimar
@Dorothy A. Winsor: From a practical decorum point of view, Biden stepping down so Harris can be president for 25 days is a terrible idea. On the other hand, in the age of trolling, with Musk and Trump spending most of their days trolling people instead of working, making Trump our 48th president instead of 47th is a bigger “fuck you” than anything the king trolls will ever accomplish. It would be fun to see.
Omnes Omnibus
@RaflW: If she was in office less than half a term, it would not prevent her from being elected to two terms. Still a pointless stunt though.
Josie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I understand many of us do. I wonder what that says about our educational system.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@satby:
As I say repeatedly, younger, self-professed progressives (“New Liberals” which is a rebranding of Blue Dogs to a degree) believe in supply-side economics, it’s so baked into our system on both sides of the aisle. The same people that promote that in many policy areas are the same ones whose ageism is also fairly prominent.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
The addiction to asset valuation is worse than the addiction to opioids.
Jackie
@different-church-lady:
TCFG’s BD is an even day.
Suzanne
@Ohio Mom: Dianne Feinstein’s last year or so convinced me of the need for age limits. Reagan having dementia — visible to those around him but not to the voters — is part of that impulse, too.
These people are handled and elections don’t always happen frequently enough.
satby
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: um-hmm.
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: He’ll attend next year’s Army-Navy game with him.
moonbat
People haven’t seriously looked at how Biden won in 2020 or we wouldn’t be having this ageist argument. He won because he was acceptable to black voters because he was a good and supportive VP to Obama for eight years AND he won because he was acceptable to white voters by being a familiar old white man. This blanket assumption that ANY Dem candidate could have won the presidency handily in 2020 is especially hilarious given the election results we just suffered through.
And that is NOT a knock on MVP. She was an excellent candidate. It is a knock on our voters.
satby
@Baud: Krugman’s post today was about that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jackie: Mine’s an odd day. So it’s got that going for it.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker: I have those too (I’m teaching a class and have no syllabus and have ordered no books), and the other kind is similar but more heart-wrenching.
Ohio Mom
@Baud: You have child?! I feel a rip in the space-time continuum.
There are some Juicers we know everything about — for one instance, don’t we all feel like we know, as in actually met in real life, Suzanne’s entire family, including her ne’er-di-well father, even though we haven’t, because she’s talked about them so much?
But you! I don’t think we are supposed to know anything about you. I am thrown off balance.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Are they neglected?
Baud
@Ohio Mom:
I don’t have a kid. Trying for a joke.
At least I don’t think I do. I do spend a lot of time here.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: No one reads the syllabus anyway.
zhena gogolia
@moonbat: Right.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Whew, I am relieved.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: That comment scared a lot of us.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
You’re not wrong to feel that way, but I’m still offended.
Torrey
@Professor Bigfoot:
Tsarnaev identifies as Muslim, so no way is he getting either a commutation or a pardon. Bowers, probably not. Roof is, IMO, a definite probable in the next term for commutation at least.
Wikipedia describes Tsarnaev as a “terrorist” and Roof as a “white supremacist, neo-Nazi, neo-Confederate mass murderer,” but not as a terrorist. The reasoning is left as an exercise for the reader.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: Especially these days. The younger faculty (and by that I mean anyone under 60) create these 20-page legal documents, with every single proviso spelled out. “You can have three absences without explanation. The first absence after that will take .03 points off your grade . . .” The idea that anyone is reading all this is ridiculous! They don’t even read my terse, simple instructions. I don’t get it. I guess it’s just CYA. An activity I have less and less patience for.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: 😂💜
Trivia Man
@Starfish (she/her): if that 80 year old is such an amazing talent, use them as an advisor and listen to them. A good president is humble enough to listen to others.
Baud
@Trivia Man:
Also how we should use foreign born billionaires who are ineligible for the presidency.
Omnes Omnibus
@Torrey: Go make an edit.
Ohio Mom
@Baud: Whew! Order is restored. Off to recalibrate my snark meter.
oldgold
The GOP has done an about face on many things as MAGA has become ascendant. Now, it appears that respecting other nations territorial sovereignty is at play. Over the past few weeks we hear of “plans” from the Orange Menace of invading Mexico, annexing Canada as the 51st state, stealing back the Panama Canal and making Denmark an offer they can’t refuse for Greenland. Madness!
satby
@Suzanne: and yet both of those were known before their last elections. And people chose them anyway. It’s the voters that are the problem.
Dementia is (still) not an illness that afflicts everyone. Easily googled, but tl:dr is that for college educated the rate of dementia is lower even in advanced age and for all people dementia occurs at a rate of about 13% over age 80. Most people die of other causes first.
I tend to oppose simple solutions for complex problems.
Nukular Biskits
@Betty Cracker:
Last night must have been the night for weird dreams.
I had one that had something to do with work. Can’t remember the specifics, but it was disturbing enough it woke me up at about 1:30 this morning and I had a hard time going back to sleep.
schrodingers_cat
@satby: Who comes up with these inane ideas?
dww44
@Soprano2: Thanks for this thoughtful response. I do wonder if there will be any pushback from the Administration. I’d love it if Biden himself addressed this in front of us all.
satby
@schrodingers_cat: definitely not allies.
oldgold
@satby: Not to mention it would give the Orange Grifter an opportunity to sell a a whole bunch of “48” stuff.
Nukular Biskits
Question: If Baud DID have kids, would they be pantsless?
Discuss.
dww44
@moonbat: thsnkd. She watches a lot of YouTube. Me, not so much. I will go search it out.
Kay
I love Warren, but I think we need additional analysis into why Americans seemingly rejected the most economically progressive President of my lifetime, a President, incidentally, who used a lot of people from Warrenworld, and instead chose rule by South African billionaire. This didn’t happen in the shitty economy of 1974, or the shitty economy of 1982, or the shitty economy of 2012.
Omnes Omnibus
@Nukular Biskits:
YOU ARE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!
dm
@zhena gogolia: I think Henry Farrell once said he put an Easter egg in his syllabi for years (something a student would definitely claim if they read it, like a free pass on a paper or exam) and never had a taker
Kay
I just hope progressives will do a deeper analysis and not fall back on “people are hurting”. People were always hurting, some or all, and yet “people” didn’t reject all democratic norms and normalize these absolute degenerate Trump hires.
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: I think this is a version of the “it’s the end of the semester and I haven’t studied at all or even attended class” dream. I have one about music that’s similar.
schrodingers_cat
@moonbat: Yeah but he was boring and Genocide Joe, also too.
–Signed
I am a serious person and these are my serious views.
Nukular Biskits
@Omnes Omnibus:
If I had suffixed that with “Purty please”, would that have worked?
Omnes Omnibus
@Nukular Biskits: Too late.
dww44
@zhena gogolia: Doubly right!
Suzanne
@satby:
You will never get an argument from me on that.
But voters can’t always see clearly what’s really going on. This situation with Kay Granger, it appears that there is a total lack of transparency. So we’re dependent on a norm of resignation, which isn’t happening.
I will also note that there are age limits and mandatory retirement/buyout ages at many professional firms.
schrodingers_cat
@satby: People who think everything is entertainment. Bored privileged folks, many of these types run the media.
Another Scott
@Trivia Man: Another reason not to do it is the symbolic hand-off of the presidency from a Black woman to a horrible white man, while not having the benefits of incumbency to put her own stamp on the country (and face the voters for those policy choices), would be bad and unfair to her.
No, Biden should (and will, I assume) hand the presidency off to the monster. The symbolism of an (excellent, caring, competent) old white guy handing off the presidency to an (incompetent, narcissistic, money-grubbing, traitorous, …) old white guy is important. White voters bear a lot of responsibility for this transition and the symbolism (while not hugely important) reflecting reality is part of the story.
My $0.02.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Soprano2
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’m generally against term limits too; they put them on the MO state legislature specifically to get rid of some long-serving Democrats so they could be replaced by Republicans. That said, I think a lot of the concerns about age aren’t ageism per se, but come from people who have had personal experience with a loved one’s deteriorating mind, and are concerned about what happens when someone in a high position in the government has this problem but won’t admit it. I’m sure you saw the story about the Texas rep who has been in a memory care unit for the past 6 months, and evidently few people noticed she was missing from Congress!
JML
Sad, but true. I wish so many of them didn’t have media platforms from which they pronounce their drivel…
Kay
Even if I give media “the Biden economy was bad” – its a lie but I’ll spot them that since they successfully sold it – a bad economy never justified eagerly embracing fascism before, so I think we need to explain that.
Especially progressives, given that Biden was the most economically progressive President of all our lives. The question is “what changed”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: We discuss over and over the difference between government and business. I hesitate to import business practices to government without someone making case that those practices will actually improve government. FWIW the military has age limits on a lot of things, but they also have waivers available.
Trivia Man
@Baud: and crappy presidents take crappy advice from crappy advisors. We just need to puck not crappy leaders.
dww44
@Kay: Your analogies are correct. I personally believe that we lost because of racism and misogyny which was magnified by the overwhelming messaging capability of the right who were able, without effective pushback, to malign, misrepresent and outright lie about Democratic candidates.
Kay
I submit that Kay Granger is the natural and inevitable consequence of insisting that these people own these seats for life and cannot be even encouraged to step down without accusations that doing so is somehow an affront to decency or discriminatory. All of congress covered for her. It should be a scandal.
Trivia Man
@schrodingers_cat: YT I bet. Its the only place i have heard the suggestion.
Another Scott
@RaflW: OTOH, to get almost anything done in the Senate (especially as long as monsters like Rand Paul are there) requires 60 votes. If we have 47 on our side, then we need at least 13 on their side. We don’t have to try to get Rand Paul and and Tuberville and folks like them, but we do need a few of them. Similarly, they need 60 votes as well, so they need a few of us. We have some leverage there.
Teri Kanefield recently started a thoughtful quasi-monthly series on thinking about morality and consent of the governed and how one makes progress with voters who have authoritarian tendencies. She makes a point, citing Pinochet, that the way to fight authoritarianism is with more democracy. I think she makes a good case. It’s worth a read (3 parts so far).
My $0.02.
Hang in there, everyone. It’s going to be a slog.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Soprano2
@Kay: I agree with this; even in the booming 1990’s there were people who were hurting. What happened in this election goes far beyond that, and IMHO has multiple causes. How can it be true that people think the economy is shitty and we had a record Thanksgiving and Christmas travel season this year? That does not make sense to me.
Kay
@dww44:
But racism was less so than 2012? I might buy it – sexism is worse than it was in 2012 – but again, it’s “what changed?”
Scout211
I am so over the triangulation in the Democratic Party. It happens here at balloon-juice, too.
I hope we can all coalesce in the next four years because Democrats of all stripes need to work together to fight back.
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: Usually, at professional firms, mandatory retirement ages are there to ensure orderly and predictable succession. Not so much about dementia, per se. But unexpected illness and death can be very disruptive to businesses and projects, at least in government we have special elections. But it still means voters don’t have elected representation for some months. The presidency has an immediate succession plan, but the other offices don’t.
Soprano2
I think it was the belief that this was a bad economy due to incessant messaging by the press about how bad inflation was plus the constant messaging from R’s and the press about the “emergency” at the southern border, even characterizing it as an “invasion”. Those things have combined to make a lot of people fascism-curious before, notably in the 1930’s. We’re lucky fascism didn’t get a real foothold here then. The constant alarm about an “invasion” gave R’s an easy enemy to point to as far as why people felt like things were bad.
zhena gogolia
The economy was just a respectable excuse. The only Trump voters I know just went on a month-long trip to Italy. The economy was fine for them.
TBone
Warren is a warrior. I’m now inspired (that’s not the correct word) to tell of Josey’s passing yesterday because he, too, was such a fighter. The in home vet had to put a needle directly into his heart (he was fully sedated first) because his heart was too weak to distribute the first injection. When he stopped breathing, I ran up the basement steps and out into the cold air, crying (howling, actually). I collected myself and went back downstairs in a few moments. Josey had come back to life in the instant I was running up the stairs howling – actually opened his eyes and raised his head.
My hubby, who witnessed all that, cannot sleep now.
But I’m a fighter too and will dose his ass to sleep after first trying the full belly fat and happy man gambit. Christmas cookies and lots of yummy carbs today to make him drowsy.
When I was outside for those few moments, a melting from the roof dropped a rainbow into the air that shone in my eye. Then I could breathe again.
JML
@Kay: well, you only picked one presidential year (2012).
In 1974 the Dems picked up 49 seats in the House and 4 seats in the Senate in a fairly significant rebuke to Ford.
In 1982 the Dems picked up 26 seats in the House (Senate stayed as-is) in response to Reagan’s economic policies and the state of the economy.
So arguably, there was a rejection of the president in those years…but they weren’t up for election. in 1976 people were done with Ford (pardon and general malaise ended him, thankfully) but by 1984 the economy was doing better and people got suckered by Reagan again, and the US and the world has paid for it ever since.
Suzanne
@Kay:
Agree.
Saying that elections are the remedy…. they’re not a remedy if everyone around the person is covering for them.
Baud
Soprano2
@TBone: I’m so sorry, that’s a tough decision for all of us. The travelling vet was a godsend for us last February, because there was no way I could get a 70+ lb dog who couldn’t even stand up into the car. She was kind and compassionate, she made the experience more bearable for all of us.
Soprano2
@Kay: I agree too, as soon as she went into memory care she should have resigned so they could hold a special election for that seat. What they did was an injustice to the voters in her district.
moonbat
@schrodingers_cat: It always makes me laugh when people fall for the corporate media’s in this case clear line of attack against our candidate and immediately internalize it as the candidate’s fault.
Biden could have been 60 years old and they would have latched onto his stutter as being a sign of serious mental decline. It didn’t matter. Corporate media didn’t want him and they reported on him accordingly. There was never any legitimate concern about his age just like there was never any legitimate concern about Harris’ “lack of clear policies” code for ‘no telling what that scary black woman will do if given power.’ Both were just cudgels to beat our candidate with. But the punditocracy will spend the next four years musing about how the Dems got it wrong all the while ignoring their big ass thumbs on the scale.
TBone
@Soprano2: ours, too, was an absolute angel of mercy. I’m never doing that in a vet office setting ever again.
I’m so grateful that you and we got that comfort.
Another Scott
@Starfish (she/her): OTOH, when done right (e.g. as in Japan), human life expectancy at birth has been rising about 2.5 years per decade for quite a while. There’s no intrinsic reason why that trend cannot continue for a while longer, AFAICS.
Also, adding an age limit would require a Constitutional amendment. That is an extremely heavy lift. Assuming it somehow could be done by, say, 2030, in 50 years human life expectancy at birth could be 95+ years old. Who’s to say that Harris, or AOC, or xxx might still be in fabulous shape then?? Future generations would be stuck with our decision – a decision that is not in our or their interest.
Most of the folks who push term limits and age limits and seniority limits want to reduce the power of elected officials. They want to churn the elected members so those officials have limited understanding of how the systems work and thus are more dependent on lobbying organizations like ALEC that write “model legislation”, and on lobbyists in general.
Satby is right. People must have the right to choose their leaders. Restrictions on those choices are not our friends. If people don’t want some old gal representing them, they can and should vote them out.
My $0.02.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Soprano2:
Long before that. By the time someone goes into memory care, they are literally a danger to themselves if not supervised.
There wouldn’t be a need for age limits if people could admit this to themselves.
kindness
Who here is surprised the WSJ is trying to paint Joe as unable to do the job? Of course they want to change the subject from Musk/Trump’s bumbling idiocy to trying to give Joe a black eye on his way out. Rupert Murdoch will never change.
Speaking of term limits…The Supreme Court. I’m against term limits for elected folk but not age limits. We here in the great People’s Republic of California voted in term limits for state positions 20 years ago. Immediately the professional class of representational government was forced to retire. Now, it’s the Lobbyists who have the institutional memory and know how to get stuff through. We the people lost out on that one. Willy Brown as Speaker of the Assembly rocked.
moonbat
@Another Scott: Seconded.
And for reasons that should be obvious: The last thing we need at the present time is a constitutional convention so 45 could go gunning for the 14th and the 19th Amendments.
artem1s
@Soprano2: you say that as if there have never been any congresscritters younger than 91 who are affectively MIA when it comes to actually doing any work. How do you place a limit on the number of Federalist Society rubber stamped bills a congressman can vote for or try to pass off as their own? Lots congress members over the last 250 years have treated their ‘jobs’ like a paid vacation with benefits. Age has nothing to do with that. She wasn’t a blip on anyone’s radar because she was TX GOP DEI hire. She was doing her ‘job’ of saying nothing and objecting to nothing the GOP wanted to get done. She was elected to do exactly that. You act like they aren’t going to be able to find some Boebert clone to replace her?
Soprano2
@Suzanne: I agree, but I’d say that when a person has to go into a memory care place the problem has been admitted to. Some people, OTOH, never seem to know that they have a problem. That makes it tough to manage things like this. You have to have the person’s consent in order for them to resign, and if they think there is nothing wrong with them that’s hard to do. My mother and grandmother had to get my grandfather’s consent to check him into the unit where they tested for dementia. It took a lot of talking to him to get him to sign those papers, because they didn’t have the POA on him yet.
Kay
@Soprano2:
They’re deliberately blocking the advancement of younger people. Pelosi and Co are too. Connelly said its not that AOC is YOUNGER, its that she has three terms and he has 11 or something. Now, I know he’s not a moron so he must understand that “younger” will almost always coincide with fewer consecutive terms.
We have ten committee heads over 70. Three are over 80. We are ABSOLUTELY going to run into another RBG or Feinstein or Kennedy situation where them hanging on does real damage to the public. We have guaranteed a crisis. Tick tock! Time waits for no man! The ego it takes to deny the aging process is disturbing all by itself.
different-church-lady
@Soprano2:
Because it makes for easy messaging, Democrats have a long-standing problem of acting like there is one “economy” for everyone. Biden’s team turned this into a major blunder. Not only did they make an argument for “the economy” against public mood, they specifically made it impersonal — “overall wages are increasing”. It was a battle of statistics against mood, and mood won.
In the run-up to “The Troubles” of July, there was an emerging phenomenon where people were saying they believed the overall economy was shitty even though they themselves were doing great.
zhena gogolia
God damn FedEx and igourmet.
Soprano2
@artem1s: That’s not the point. It wasn’t that she didn’t want to do the job, it was that she was unable to do the job. Regardless of party that’s unfair to the people in her district.
satby
@Soprano2: possibly the delay in discovering her location was because she was in DC in November even though she hadn’t voted since mid-July. For her portrait unveiling 🙄
Lots of them miss lots of votes, that should be a bigger scandal too.
Kay
@JML:
They switched parties. They didn’t annoint a South African billionaire to run the country. They didn’t eagerly embrace rapists and blatant thieves. They didn’t jettison all standards.
TBone
Moral of the story: adrenaline is some powerful shit. Use it wisely.
zhena gogolia
@TBone: I’m sorry it was so difficult.
different-church-lady
@moonbat:
I laughed so hard I spent all of July in bed with the covers over my head.
RaflW
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh! I did not know this, thanks.
TBone
@zhena gogolia: thank you! It really wasn’t too bad for me, I’m always a steady hand when emergency hits (they call me The Wheel Man, the getaway driver). It was okay for me because of the vet. It’s my hubby that took the real hit, which is what I was trying to prevent. God laughs while we make plans.
moonbat
@kindness: It’s really annoying to corporate media that Biden hasn’t faded away and become ineffectual since the election despite their stubborn refusal to cover him. But he keeps doing news worthy things! It exposes them. So naturally they are making a last gasp push to argue he’s unfit.
Fox is all up in their feelings over that Biden on-on-one with Meidas News I mentioned above because it gives lie to all their bullshit coverage of our president.
Kay
I would submit that denying the real effects of aging is not, actually, honoring “elders”. Its insisting elders are not old, which is not valuing old people at all, but instead just accentuating how much we value youth. So much so that we will deny the effects of aging.
different-church-lady
@Kay:
Well, it worked for Hitler. But even then (a) they had a genuinely horrible economy, and (b) it wasn’t a plurality.
Another Scott
@Torrey: Good catch.
Yeah, “terrorism” as a term to beat up on others has been a huge cudgel that W took up and it’s hard to know if we’ll be rid of it any time soon. He tried to qualify it – “terrorist group of global reach” – but it didn’t matter. VVP, Bibi, DJT, etc., etc., are overjoyed that the USA gave them the tool that everyone who opposes them (white people) is a “terrorist”. Anyone who terrorizes minorities, well, there are good people on both sides, amirite??
Grr…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Soprano2: I would like to see, if someone is diagnosed with an illness that is going to take them away from service for a while, or is terminal, that they resign and make it effective the day of the swearing-in of the winner of the special election. It’s not right for voters to go without representation for months. Orderly succession is important. And these aren’t normal jobs.
Josie
@Suzanne:
People would not be able to cover for them if we had a news corps that was awake and paying attention to what is going on. The fact that she could be in a memory care location for months without anyone noticing that she wasn’t voting should have been noticed. Many of our problems go back to news sources being lazy and outright untruthful.
moonbat
@different-church-lady: Admittedly, it is a bitter laugh.
different-church-lady
@Baud:
You’ve spent so much time on BJ that you missed the birth of the second.
different-church-lady
Fun times ahead:
RaflW
@oldgold: All of this while I suspect there will be a lot of resignations and non-reups in the US military. Even if we avoid Hegseth, I think the more polarizing nature of a Trump admin will lead to departures, while I don’t really believe that enlistment will really go up to compensate (and it takes time to turn recruits into effective members in their roles).
Trans servicemembers are clearly going to be targeted. Will other LGB folks start looking for the exits as well?
It’s just gonna be a frightful mess (can be said about all of it, the whole Admin alas).
TBone
Can I be Baud’s adopted illegitimate love child?
For the campaign purposes, I mean.
Kay
Its not just Democrats. Mitch McConnell is obviously impaired. But no Democrat can say it because that would put our own people at risk.
The US has one of the younger populations of developed democracies, probably due to immigration (thank God) but we have the oldest political.leadership. Explain.
Trivia Man
@Suzanne: I am listening to the podcasts History of Rime and History of Byzantium. Amazing how much progress was wasted because a good emperor didnt plan for succession . Some intentionally to neutralize infighting and others for many reasons.
An orderly and predictable transition of power is essential to long term success.
Suzanne
@Josie: Agreed.
The good thing about having set retirement ages in many business partnerships, though, is that it makes it not personal. It fosters a culture of training up your replacement. That is an attitude we absolutely should encourage.
RaflW
@TBone: Nestor? Is that you?
different-church-lady
Fun times ahead:
TBone
@RaflW: NessT !
RaflW
@Kay: Does any other country have our disastrously corrupt system of ‘funding’ campaigns (in scare quotes because it’s purchasing).
different-church-lady
Fun times ahead:
Note: asterisks are there to get around the spam filter, which apparently believes Gaetz is too relentless about s*x.
TBone
@different-church-lady: whenever I see the asterisks I think of Kurt Vonnegut.
Kay
@different-church-lady:
Well, my explanation is voters are marinating in a stew of bullshit and have seemingly forgotten how to do the simplest comparisons, but I’m looking for something more generous to voters than “theyre spoiled whiners who think Instagram is real life”.
Coming up empty so far.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Every House vote is recorded and easy to find. If people in her district can’t be bothered to look at her voting record, well, too bad.
The US rep for American Samoa (a Republican) missed 100% of the votes in the last Congress. (Like the DC rep, EH Norton, they can vote on the floor.)
There’s no constitutional requirement that representatives show up to vote.
I find it hard to get upset about this. YMMV.
Best wishes,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@Kay:
That’s just you doing the actual math correctly.
RevRick
@Kay: It took fifty years for the shittiness of the Robber Baron Age to be firmly dealt with, and even then, it took a huge economic crash to set the stage. We tend to overlook our nation’s earlier flirtations with fascism during the 1930s with Huey Long and Father Coughlin.
I served a working class congregation in Western Pennsylvania from 1975-88, and I witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by deindustrialization that occurred there. They went from 120,000 jobs in the steel industry to about 23,000, and American Can, Pullman railcars, and specialty glass manufacturers just disappeared. Southwestern PA used to be a Democratic bulwark. Now, save for the island of Allegheny county, it’s solidly GOP.
Rightwing media convinced these folks that the sources of their distress lie in the social changes Democrats promoted and the free trade Democrats permitted rather than the Wall Street bankers and CEOs who decided to close factories over lunch. These areas continue to bleed young people, which only adds to their resentment of academia and blue metros. The left behind do not like to be reminded that they are left behind.
TBone
Somehow this song by Naked Eyes seems apropos
https://youtu.be/_sDy333YoMM?si=rubNGF3KWWEPLutv
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Omnes Omnibus:
What law firms do vis a vis age limits should have *nothing* to do with how we democratically go about electing people. Again, the people who push this consistently consistently present a lot of ageist views justified using singular anecdotes to justify a whole scale change. And their proposals are categorically worse than what they are trying to allegedly fix while ignoring other factors that contribute to the issue (as noted above, if we had a functioning press corps, it might, just might be harder for people to cover for others, that in itself is no reason to mandate age restrictions).
Funny how these same people become Libertarians in Trench Coats for other issues that they’re more personally vested in, ie., we should have no rules. But for something they dislike, lotsa (usually dumb) rules.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: We elect these people to have baseline good judgment. If you’re too ill to do that job, resign. That’s the least you can do in a position of responsibility.
There’s multiple examples in American history of elected officials becoming incapacitated or infirm, and many of them involve a coverup. Lying to citizens, whether that’s by omission or commission. That’s not defensible. I would not be in favor of age limits if some of these people could show better judgment.
rikyrah
Peanut and I finished the double feature of The Bishop’s Wife The Preacher’s Wife
She said… ‘ Nobody is going to convince me that either woman is going to choose their husbands over Cary Grant and Denzel Washington in their prime.”
BWA HA HA HA H HA HA HA HA HA
TBone
@rikyrah: 🎯
I’d expect nothing less than a straight shooter from you
Trivia Man
@TBone: and whenever i see the Walmart logo
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah: Well, David Niven isn’t too bad, but . . .
Soprano2
@satby: Probably, but it was her responsibility and the responsibility of her staff to handle this differently. I extend that to Diane Feinstein, too. What they did was irresponsible and unfair to her constituents.
TBone
@Trivia Man: I cannot make that association hahahaha! But since it’s assholes and Walmart, I’ll try harder.
rikyrah
@Ohio Mom:
I agree. JoeyB wouldn’t do that, and that’s ok..because that’s the man I voted for.
JML
@RevRick: truth. The Iron Range in MN was a DFL bulwark for decades with strong union households. And as the mines have closed and/or shrunk and the young people have fled to the Twin Cities it’s become a much smaller, angrier, and republican area pining for the old days and willing to overlook anything when a company talks big about opening up a new mine and bringing money back in to the area.
rikyrah
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I know that I’ve been busy…so I haven’t been reading threads as attentively as I usually do…
Has something happened to you or Mr. DAW?
rikyrah
@Baud:
YEAH…THIS!!!!
rikyrah
@Joe Falco:
YUMMMMMMM
TBone
After such long time experience in the gov’t., I’m pretty sure President Biden has an accurate view of the voters he was up against.
Sure, his hair is mussed, but he’s also a warrior.
different-church-lady
@TBone: Yeah. I’m just no so certain he knew what to do about it.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Soprano2:
DiFi is being used as the anecdotal punching bag in this discussion. And to be sure, there are examples of this on both sides of the aisle:
https://www.oldest.org/politics/senators-us/
But, if you look at this from sheer numbers (even conceding the fact that Senate turnover isn’t massive), this is another non-problem in the long term but sure, let’s institute something bad just because.
Also too, many of these same “refuse to acknowledge” arguments being put forth were, no surprise here, being put forth by the same Tonya Harding Dems earlier this year.
moonbat
The blanket assumption that younger is better in politics is super inaccurate as well as being annoying. We’re not electing people to do a 50-yard dash. It’s politics.
As cub reporter I covered Jamie Whitten, a yellow dog Dem, who was then a VERY old U.S. Rep. from Mississippi who just happened, through seniority, to be head of House Appropriations. His constituents would have kept electing him until he dropped dead, which they almost did, because he brought home the bacon (in his case, a lot of federal highway construction funding) for his district. Sure younger people ran against him but they always lost because they would have lost that seat on appropriations and the old guy they had was still effective for NE Mississippi.
After he retired the next guy to take his seat, a younger, plastic haired Republican named Wicker, did squat for the state ever, but he sure did make the white voters feel good about keeping black voters in line. I’d take old yellow dog over that any day.
TBone
@different-church-lady: he gave it his best effort, that’s all I require.
I’m a try harder, fail harder, do it again type.
KatKapCC
@satby: Yeah. I get that it’s just a silly daydream, but people need to think about how massively condescending that would be to her. And who the hell wants the first woman president to be president for less than a month?
different-church-lady
@TBone: To be fair, nobody else knows what to do about it either.
Paul in KY
@Shalimar: It would be a hoot, but I know Pres. Biden has too much couth to do that.
TBone
Jeebus
Sonofabitch I’m gonna touch it anyway!
Silly daydreams are okay! They don’t require literary criticism.
Ask Paul if you don’t believe me
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5kcLx8IVQFk
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Something something anecdotes usually make bad policy and bad law.
Strom Thurmond was almost 94 when he was re-elected in 1996. He was in the Senate until 2003 (he left when he was 100).
One can say that he was “obviously” too old, and cite evidence for it, but he was elected (53-44) after winning nearly 61% of the vote in the primary.
Democracy means that people get to choose their leaders.
Rep. Granger announced over a year ago that she was not running for re-election.
FWIW.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Your body also works better if you actually use it. As one ages the amount and level one can work at lessens. As one ages all the parts are aging as well of course so not doing as much or with as much energy as when younger is normal. But doing far less isn’t good either. I believe the proper process is called aging gracefully.
WaterGirl
@Kay: Sounds to me like his argument was that it wasn’t age, it was experience. Experience does matter, but only up to a point.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott:
…AND THAT’S WHY IT’S A BAD IDEA!
brantl
@Ten Bears: why?
Miss Bianca
@different-church-lady:
Wait, you too?
TBone
@different-church-lady: 🎯
zhena gogolia
igourmet has finally admitted that the cheese is probably inedible by now. So off to the store we go.
Ohio Mom
@rikyrah: I believe Mr. DAW has been diagnosed with Parkinson’s.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@moonbat:
Ike Skelton back in Misery was a similar kind of yellow dog. Served forever as his region became red. Still brought home the bacon. Various (R) successors (to include the now-retiring useless piece of protoplasm, Blaine Luetkemeyer) brought *nothing* back to Misery.
KatKapCC
@Starfish (she/her): But how would a maximum limit work?
Let’s say we set it at 75. Would someone who would be 74 on election day be allowed to run? Because then they would be serving until 78. So would a 75 cap mean you could not be over 71 at the time of the election? And would this be the same for men and women, even though women have a longer average lifespan?
RevRick
@Soprano2: There has been a huge disconnect throughout the Biden years between how people felt about their own financial situation and how they rated the economy in their own states and what they believed about the national economy. Kind of it’s long been great for me, but there’s lots of someones out there who are in the toilet. This perception was enhanced by the growth of homelessness in major cities.
Misperception of reality is rife in America. When asked what percentage of the population belongs to various demographics, the answers are wildly off, often by factors of ten. For example, the average American believes that black people constitute 40% of the population, when it’s actually 12%. And the same holds true for estimates about Latinos, Jews, Moslems, gays, trans. And it’s not just white people who make crazy estimates. Even the groups named inflate their own estimates of how many of them there are.
Soprano2
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I know that, but Biden went out and did interviews that demonstrated to anyone who listened to them that he didn’t have dementia. I didn’t see Feinstein doing that. If you don’t think a person who goes into a memory care unit should resign from their job, I don’t know what else to say to you. I have to wonder if Granger was declared unable to handle her own affairs and they hid that from us, too.
I can see that you don’t see this as a problem at all; I see it as somewhat of a problem, because I think it’s dishonest on the part of the people who have been elected but cannot represent their voters adequately. I know that many people stay sharp as they age; my mother did, and my grandmother did until the last 1 1/2 years of her life (she died at 89). What I do know is that dealing with someone who has dementia on a day-to-day basis really drives home what a problem it can be in this kind of situation.
Villago Delenda Est
Those two are MAGAts. So they’ll be spared.
Ruckus
@Nukular Biskits:
I find it difficult to rate a president because what they do is often have to respond to crap that happens on their watch, AND democratic presidents have the added stress of having to work within a system that has a portion of the citizens being crazed monkeys that want to reverse time to when they were in power. They never want to look forward, only backasswards. I believe that they want to conserve progress. Don’t know if it scares them, dumbfounds them, or they just do not understand actual humanity and the process of time.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Soprano2:
We’re mostly in agreement here. “They hid” is the issue here and the proposed “fixes” are worse than the problem because, as it’s clear, these are anecdotal, isolated instances of that happening.
I honestly don’t know if there’s a process in the House (which would be broken now tho) where they can suspend/remove a House member for not performing their duties, ie., checking into a memory care unit. If there is a process, no matter how broken, great, it’s there and designed for situations such as we’re describing. We don’t need another, bad, rule, to try and fix the non-application of existing rules or reporting to highlight instances like this when they rarely come up.
Suzanne
@Another Scott:
Sure. Again, though, I’d point out that political institutions and parties — if they have relevance — really should be about preserving/pushing a set of ideas over a long term, not really about any specific politician’s career. Part of that is creating a norm that succession is inevitable and should be smooth, that the institution and the ideals are greater than the individual, that no one is irreplaceable and these roles are a privilege, not a reward.
As much as I admire RBG…. her lack of foresight caused a great deal of damage. There’s a lot of examples — you call them anecdotes. Again, if we had better norms, and our leadership showed better judgment, we wouldn’t need rules. But…. at some point these “anecdotes” show a pattern.
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
shitforbrains aged during the presidency. As we all did. Most of us do a better job of it, because we don’t see ourselves as a comic book superhero. IOW we see and accept reality, laws, the concept of time and aging. shitforbrains lives in a world entirely in that tiny mind of his. Most of us accept the bigger picture. We may not like all of said picture but we can accept the concept of it, because it is what it is. shitforbrains can only see the tiny screen in his mind, playing a simple self rewarding personal commercial in his whatever that lump is inside his head.
different-church-lady
Why is there a prohibition against fictional characters being president?
Paul in KY
@Kay: Unfortunately, I think misogyny played a big part. Same as it did in 2016.
Ruckus
@satby:
People need to quit expecting one weird trick will somehow save the day.
Accept reality? Surely you jest!
trollhattan
Subject line of email in spam folder: “You limp?”
Me: “Yeah, my knee is killing me today, How did you know?”
JML
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: and as anyone who has had to deal with family having memory issues, when related to dementia or alzheimer’s or other effects of age and/or medical condition…hells bells it’s hard. Convincing people that they simply can’t do something any longer that they’ve been doing for years and years is incredibly difficult. Frequently, the people closest to them (and that they trust the most) will talk themselves into believing that it’s not really that bad. They cover for them, because they can face the truth either…and covering things over is less difficult than the massive change something like memory care brings. The individual will easily forget any examples of them running into problems because of their memory, or re-write things in their head differently to cover the gap in their memory…and continue to believe things are fine.
lost of memory is cruel as hell, and brutally painful for everyone around.
Should DiFi have resigned and not attempted to serve out her term? In a perfect world, absolutely. But the senate isn’t well-designed to deal with this sort of case, especially not now, and forcing resignations gets very dicey and is easy to weaponize against people for partisan reasons rather than for their best interests. It’s a shame her career ended this way, but as with many things you don’t get a perfect ending you only get the end.
trollhattan
@Paul in KY:
+1. We’re “not ready” IOW the “I’d vote for a woman, just not that woman” mentality of 2016 is alive and well-fed in 2024. Which has one pondering just what the “right” woman could possibly be.
Mother Teresa? “Not hawt.”
Beyonce? “Has a cat.”
Taylor? “Seems Canadian.”
different-church-lady
@trollhattan: You’re lucky it was in the spam folder. The only thing my ISP puts in there is my legit mail.
CindyH
@Kay: I think your explanation covers it.
rikyrah
@Kay:
White Supremacy, Kay.
Beginning.Middle.End.
KatKapCC
@trollhattan:
Jane Lynch? Too gay.
Oprah? Woke.
Dr Ruth? Kinda short.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I’m not getting upset about AOC, when all she is is loud.
Now, if Lauren Underwood had run for that position, I’d be actually upset. A young member who actually DOES THE WORK. And has the receipts for said work.
Nukular Biskits
@moonbat:
Your post about Jamie Whitten reminds me of US Senator John C. Stennis, who retired at age 87.
Mississippians kept putting that man in office long after he should have been in the nursing home.
I saw him in person in 1983 (?) when I was a member of Boys State in Jackson and he addressed the assembly. The put up stage lights with red film so he wouldn’t appear so pale on camera. Even so, I recall his speech, if you can call it that, meandering to the point of having no focus at all.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@rikyrah: Mr DAW was in the hospital last week with heart failure. They adjusted his medications, and he’s doing well, but it was pretty scary.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ruckus: Exercise helps me manage depression and stress, too. I’ve slowed down, but this morning I spent 30 minutes on the reclining bike and then 30 minutes in a class called Stretch and Balance, so that worked for me.
rikyrah
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I defended DiFi for one reason:
JUDGES
The GOP made it clear that they WERE NOT going to let the Democrats replace her on the Judiciary Committee…..IF SHE RESIGNED.
They had no choice when she DIED.
rikyrah
@Ohio Mom:
Thanks OM
rikyrah
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
My Sister has CHF. I know the ups and downs of that disease.
Glad they were able to help Mr. DAW.
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: She probably shouldn’t have run for that final term, but CA voters chose her* and once she was in she had to stay for the reason you stated.
*It’s not like voters didn’t know that she was older than Methuselah when they voted for her.
satby
@Soprano2: not disputing that. Pointing out an “age limit” isn’t a good solution. She wasn’t running for reelection and her replacement will take that seat in a couple of weeks. Others need to move on sometimes too, and often well before an age limit would move them out.
Paul in KY
@Trivia Man: Same thing happened to the Plantagenet dynasty in England. People allowing people who they knew were complete pieces of crap or just not mentally up to the job to become king, with predictable bad results.
satby
And there’s the crux of the issue. Republicans keep putting stupid, malignant YOUNGER people into positions of power, not just in elected positions. Because they don’t be give a shit about effective governance, it’s an anathema to their goals. While our side is more than prepared to show up with a rubber chicken to a knife fight and lose effective people just to prevent the illusion of unfairness.
Citizen Alan
@Starfish (she/her): It’s not just staffers, it’s the voters too. I’m sure Nukular Biskits can back me up here, but everyone in Mississippi knew that Thad Cochran was in mental decline, just like Jamie Whitten and John Stennis before him. But people (including Democrats I knew) dutifully pulled the lever for them all because it was of real and tangible benefit to our impoverished state to have a succession of MOCs who had held office for half a century and rose to attain important committee chairmanships.
satby
@JML: people forget that DiFi hung on the prevent the judiciary committee from becoming Republican dominated. Mitch McConnell made it clear the Senate would not allow a replacement if she left. Which also broke the rules and norms.
Even anecdotes don’t always tell the story you think might be obvious. Edit: as rikyrah said.
Paul in KY
@trollhattan: The veep got hammered by those jerkwads that would pass her over ’cause she has wimmen parts’ and vote for that odious POS. Sheesh…
Paul in KY
@KatKapCC: Marie Curie? Too nerdy, kinda glows…
Geminid
@Soprano2: I think they called Adam Smith a “top Democrat” because he’s the Ranking Member of the Armed Services Committee and was Chairman in the previous Congress.
It’s an important job because the Committee cuts up a really big pie, but most of the decision making only gets covered by defense-oriented news sites, which is why Smith is not better known.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
We all have dreams, some of them can make us wake up in a not seemingly well rested manner. Some of our dreams are recollections of the past, some of them are desires for the future and some of them have no rational explanation whatsoever. We control our dreams with our minds, BUT. Our sleeping minds and our awake minds can be two completely different concepts inside the same brain. We’ve all – ok maybe most of us, had dreams that don’t have any reality to them. From looking at life in a completely different manner than we do awake, from a different time in our lives, and yes from completely outside/different than our lives. It’s being human, living, it has sides we often don’t really see/comprehend while awake. And they exist when we sleep and have no outside stimulus. That brain thingy often works differently than we understand. And from what and how we see the past, and try and foresee the future. Even if it isn’t a real future. Or past. IOW being human can be complicated.
TBone
@Dorothy A. Winsor: glad to hear that adjustment news!
Soprano2
@satby: I guess what I think about that is that she should have retired rather than run for another term. I do remember that she had to stay because of the judiciary committee and McConnell’s fuckery.
Sally
@satby: I agree with you so thoroughly. I am completely opposed to either age or term restrictions. Age restrictions often work against women, who, like Pelosi, sometimes enter politics later than men, due to family choices. Term restrictions take away the freedom of voters to vote for an incumbent whom they like, has experience and has served well. And yes, need better voters! (Good luck with that).
Sally
@satby: Plus, people can have dementia at 70, others can be fit and competent at 90.
Sally
@Suzanne: But those people aren’t elected. Age limits in non-elected, positions are fine if that’s what people want.
Sally
@Kay: Yes, it should be a scandal, and she could have been voted out. If only voters had cared. If only media cared, who can still make a fuss. This is the state of the Republican Party, they have so much contempt for their constituents that they allow reps to be in memory care, and out of congress. Why is no news org saying that? Rhetorical.
Starfish (she/her)
@Another Scott: It doesn’t matter how old we push life expectancy to. The parts are no longer under warrantee and wear out for most people. There are those people who live to 110-120 whose parents had them when they were under 25 years old. They are blessed with longevity, but they are most likely not politicians, and they are most likely not going to be wanting to be president at 110.
Starfish (she/her)
@Citizen Alan: Yes, Thad Cochran is the one that I was thinking about most. His staffers were so very competent. I went with some folks and spoke to them about K-12 education, and they were great. His office fixed my mom’s citizenship paperwork. He had very excellent staffers and was definitely in decline.
Emily B.
Heh heh. After President Biden pardoned Hunter Biden, I actually went to the WH website and filled in the Contact Us form to say that I supported the pardon. Then I urged the president to commute the sentences of federal death row prisoners—and to announce the commutations on December 23 so that Republicans would be arguing in favor of the death penalty on Christmas Eve.
I’m not claiming I gave Biden the idea. But I bet we share similar views of the Republican noise machine.
dnfree
@Sally: Dianne Feinstein. Not just Republicans.
Sally
@dnfree: I think that’s been addressed in a comment above. She had to stay in the end because of judges and McConnell’s evilness. She have up the last months of her life so the Biden could appoint judges.
#251. Perhaps she should not have run last tim, or perhaps primary votes should have voted for someone else.
dnfree
@Sally: Right, that’s my thought. She shouldn’t have run for her last term.