After reading what Rebecca wrote on 12/19, I’m totally with her on this one.
Let’s not make perfect the enemy of the good.
Rebecca:
You guys, this is so infuriating and I am SO MAD.
You are reading this on Substack right now. Substack is run by some mostly nice libertarianish dudes who have bad taste in a lot of writers. They succor the anti-trans opinionists. They have (and monetize!) Actual Nazis. They just made Bari Weiss a shiny new deluxe website. (They also built Wonkette’s for us last year, for free.) Bari Weiss’s website was always on Substack, but they built her a newer and shinier one (with advances in their tech that they’ll soon start to push out to everyone), and that’s causing a new round of “cancel your subscriptions to sites using Substack so your money doesn’t go to support Substack, which is bad.” Right now, in the Year of Our Trump December 2024, and a week before Christmas, people are convincing other people to stop supporting independent liberal media if it uses a bad tech stack.
I don’t mean bad like it spies on you. I don’t mean bad like it sells your info or shows you ads. It doesn’t do any of those things. It’s actually super fucking ethical, for a tech-stack, if I am even using the term tech stack correctly! I mean bad like it makes money off bad people as well as good people.
Ten percent of this subscription goes to overhead costs that profit people who use it to support bad things. Ninety percent of this subscription goes to me paying my writers and feeding my babies and husband and old mom and animals and GAH I AM SO FUCKING MAD.
The people pounding this campaign think it’s very easy to leave Substack, and so if somebody doesn’t, you can help them understand the gravity of the situation by punishing them for someone else’s actions, a thing I believe we decided is also bad.
At the risk of SO BORING YOU, not everybody on Substack is a newsletter with a year’s worth of posts and a subscriber list, which would be easy to move to the elusive perfectly pure and moral capitalist tech company that definitely exists.
Some people on Substack (ME! I AM TALKING ABOUT ME!) are literally 20-(almost 21!)-year-old websites with millions of posts, hundreds of authors, and it isn’t in fact as easy as “just call Ghost which by the way also has fascists.”
You are being encouraged to encourage me, a literal mom and pop website, to be the first person in history to figure out how to ethically consume under capitalism, and if I can’t, you should “vote with your feet.” Boots! Get walking!
Last time we moved platforms (before Substack), it cost me $40,000 to have our new website built. If I had a spare $40,000 lying around, I would hire half a new writer! (We just finally hired Marcie full-time this month! But there’s another spiffy lady I’ve got my eye on, and I’m hoping to be Mr. Big Spender again soon!) Substack built our website for free in about six months. Again, before that and after the previous forty-thousand-dollar adventure, we hired developers who took a year and still didn’t have a website for us but at least with that one we got our money back.
It’s not just fucking “easy.”
Literally right now, people are encouraging other people to stop supporting left/liberal independent media — NOW! when the regular media is FUCKING BROKEN and we need every left of center voice we can fucking get — because it exists in a society in which bad people with shitty opinions also exist.
And today I’ve got dozens — dozens! — of people cancelling their Wonkette subscriptions so they won’t have to get dirty giving 10 percent of their monthly subscription money of $8 or $10 (or more!) to the bad tech bros who take that 10 percent to host us, keep the site up and secure from hackers and attacks, genially and patiently answer your support questions when you can’t log in, and share our content to new readers — some of whom might before have had shitty opinions about trans people and other living things, and might even begin to rethink them!
Might as well cancel Wonkette because we pay taxes to the US government which also does war and live in American which just elected Donald Trump to put all the liberal media in jail. Oh wait, THAT’S ME TOO. Well fuck!
I am so fucking angry right now I almost can’t breathe. What stupid purity-politics shooting ourselves in the face BULLSHIT.
Wonkette is hosted on Substack. We’re not leaving anytime soon, but more importantly I’m not even conflicted about it. If you want to cancel, you don’t owe us anything, and you are certainly allowed. I won’t even write you a nastygram like I did to people this morning after I got their (well, his; the other people were collateral damage and I already apologized) hectoring and condescending messages about how they just can’t support us but they’ll be happy to when I just do this very simple thing that they know FUCK ALL ABOUT FUCK.
Anyhoo! I think that’s out of my system.
LOL I feel better now, for real, love you, we’ll all be fine, sorry again to the people I yelled at this morning, bye.
Like I said, I’m totally with her on this. Where do you stand after reading this?
RepubAnon
Let me be the first to mention how the Judean People’s Front are splitters.
Professor Bigfoot
So, the Substack bros and the Podbros are all just bog standard American white men.
Like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher and all the rest— they can talk a good game but at the end of the day they’re gonna stan white male supremacy like the rest of their demographic.
Josie
I know this is going to sound stupid, but I don’t understand. Can someone explain what this is about in simple language that a semi-luddite can follow.?
ue
deleted
ArchTeryx
It’s not just the Media. Angry Black Lady’s on an anti-Democratic party rant on Bluesky and that, of course, started the sort of rousing fight that Twitter used to be known for. Purity Ponies are a luxury we cannot afford right now. When you start screaming the Ds are the enemies of minorities and LBGTQ+ people, you’ve completely lost the plot.
(Somehow my nym got screwed up)
Belafon
Link?
ArchTeryx
@Josie: There’s an anti-Substack campaign going on because they host righties as well as liberals. They don’t reject bloggers by content. However, defunding Substack would also defund Wonkette and a BUNCH of liberal voices, and right now, they’re one of the only forums we have a toehold in at all. This is NOT the time for Purity Pony campaigns.
Baud
As someone who’s perfect, I will NEVER abide good.
ArchTeryx
@Belafon: https://bsky.app/profile/angryblacklady.bsky.social/post/3le2os7tgc22d
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Josie:
People are cancelling subscriptions to content providers of a liberal persuasion because the tech companies that do the hosting, provide customer support and are contracted (paid) to setup/revise said content providers site (in this case Substack) all support the Orange Fart Cloud.
Or are libertarians (I will quibble with the “nice libertarian guys” part of the piece, there are none) who vote right wing.
It’s highlighting an extreme case of some people being Leftier Than Thou.
Josie
@ArchTeryx:
Got it. Thank you.
charon
I subscribe to a whole big bunch ofsubstack sites and will go on adding more.
Soprano2
Purity politics like that is bad. It’s like trying to find a place to shop where no one supports Republicans – it’s really hard, in fact almost impossible. Try it where I live!!
Josie
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Hmm. Sounds like a difficult knot to untangle.
ETA: $40,000 to build a website is a huge amount of money. I had no idea.
Soprano2
@ArchTeryx: If you want to hear liberals shitting on Democrats, listen to The New Abnormal. They do good interviews, but the first 15 minutes are sometimes hard to listen to, because it’s all about how “Democrats are doing it wrong” and they sometimes get their facts wrong because they’re so outraged. I swear, Rick Wilson didn’t shit on Democrats as much as they do! There will never be a perfect party that does everything you want just the way you want it all the time.
matt
@ArchTeryx: She’s always been pretty unhinged. Personally I find that approach of folks like Atrios or The Nation or her to be tedious and unpleasant to actually consume, so I don’t.
Professor Bigfoot
@Soprano2: When they say “Democrats are doing it wrong,” what I hear is “We white guys know better than the uppity Negroes that have too much power in the Democratic Party.”
Soprano2
@Professor Bigfoot: Except that Danielle Moody is a black lesbian! So no, not exactly when it comes to this podcast. She’s the worst about being mad at Democrats. ETA – and this preceded the loss in November. She hates hates hates Merrick Garland.
Hildebrand
The only place that is collecting long form writing in one spot is Substack. It’s convenient to find great (or even just good) writing in one spot, where I can choose who I support financially. I will not be cancelling any of my subscriptions.
A few too many folks are absolutely hopping on their purity ponies – and they are beyond wearying. For instance, on Bluesky we are being treated to the notion that no one ever criticizes Democrats – and I am just at a loss to sort out what they are evening talking about, because it seems like we get nothing but criticism of Democrats, especially by fellow Democrats. But I guess because we aren’t shredding our Democratic leaders for being sell-outs, or squishes, or just plain terrible, every day, all the time, that we just aren’t really serious about fighting the good fight.
This whole substack thing is so similar. Yes, terrible people are platformed there, and yes, the folks running the show give space for that to happen, but jeez, when has this ever not been true of any platform – including newspapers. Do people forget that in a capitalist system, people who run businesses will act like capitalists?
I mean, would I like journalists and political reporters to form a writers-owned group like Defector? Yes, yes I would. But until that time, I like to have a place where I can read good writing on a wide variety of topics.
The purity police have seemingly lost their minds since the election – and keep aiming their fire at the wrong targets. How about going after the Republicans with the same fervor you go after Democrats!
Yes, be critical of our side, but then also offer suggestions and solutions, and then do something other than coughing up the fifty-millionth screed about how Democrats are just the worst because they won’t do things exactly like you want them.
If we keep doing this, I’ll be stunned if anyone would want to run – why would you, knowing you will get hamstrung by your own ostensible supporters.
Baud
@Soprano2:
There are black Republicans too. Just saying.
Baud
Dupe
WaterGirl
@Belafon: The big red box has the link.
Suzanne
Lack of strategic thinking makes me crazy. Y’all! The tent needs to G R O W!
I know most people here know this.
Baud
@Hildebrand:
What about Medium?
hrprogressive
I like a lot of what Rebecca writes, including this.
Unfortunately, “the left” (in this case, meaning, everyone not openly a Fascist and/or Fascist Sympathizer) just does not have hyper-wealthy corporations that have built media empires to propagandize the masses the way the right has. “We” just don’t.
And, to the extent “voting with your wallet/clicks/eyes/shares” matters, sure, it absolutely does. I cancelled Amazon Prime after the pandemic eased up and I didn’t want to give any more money to the Bezos Empire than I absolutely “had” to. I never subscribed to the NYT or WaPo, but after they all obeyed in advanced, I won’t be doing that.
But Rebecca is right, the idea of finding a completely clean, ethical, flowers and sunshine “supply chain” of literally anything one might consume – be it food, consumer goods, or in her argument here, media – under the vulture capitalist system we currently suffer under is nigh impossible.
Sure, people could (and probably should) try to community build their own networks of, you know, things to buy and read and whatever. But that’s very hard, costs lots of time, money, and effort, and even then, depending on how “pure” you want your “supply chain” to be, you’d damn well better hope you vetted every participant in that network to be clean as a whistle for your fee fee’s.
I will continue to say “Rebuild the entire Democratic Party” because as far as I’m concerned, they do not give a shit about regular Americans, and have proven it time and again.
But disregarding any, and all, “non-Fascist” sources of news and information just because if you drill down deep enough, you might find at the root some support of people and things you don’t approve of…
Well, that’s kind of like obeying in advance, isn’t it?
“Oh no, Substack hosts lots of liberal lefty voices but their owners aren’t lefties!! No more spreading leftist gospel for me, thank you very much” isn’t the win, or the flex, you think it is.
Rebecca is right.
Professor Bigfoot
@ArchTeryx: It’s absolutely insane that ABL would be so vehement in attacking the Black and woman led Democrats, while the Party of the White Man conspires openly to take away the rights of women and Black people.
I can’t ask anyone to make this make sense, because it doesn’t.
Many things I agree with her on, but this is fucking egregious.
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
OK this got me to do what I should have done a long time ago; stop freeloading and subscribe to Wonkette. I don’t read it that often (that may change now that I subscribe) but when I do I’ve felt guilty for freeloading. Now I won’t.
BubbaDave
So… a little background on Substack’s Nazi problem (which extended to soliciting support for an anti-anti-Nazi letter):
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/jan/12/casey-newton-quits-substack-nazi-newsletter
My (unpopular) take on Substack is that it’s basically where Twitter was a year ago, when everybody knew that it was a bad site but so convenient and popular that they just ignored the downside of supporting the Muskrat.
Fortunately, it’s relatively easy to migrate away:
https://www.citationneeded.news/substack-to-self-hosted-ghost/
Everyone has their own line; for me, I don’t pay for Substacks. Sorry if that makes me a purity pony, but there’s plenty of good independent media that isn’t tithing to pro-Nazi founders and isn’t making money for some of Silicon Valley’s most pro-fascist billionaires.
Baud
As a rule, I only read what I write.
Steve LaBonne
Haven’t read the whole thread to see if someone already pointed this out, but the invaluable Heather Cox Richardson is also on Substack. Purity ponies really grind my gears.
TBone
Krugman today in an Unserious mood on Substack
Geminid
@Soprano2: I think we are going through a period similar to the years after Clinton’s 2016 loss, with a lot of controversy about the future course of the Party. A common suggestion is for the Party to move “Left,” and some of the same folks advocating that change now are making the same arguments they made from 2017 to 2022.
One result I think will be a large number of primary challenges in the 2026 midterms. That may not be such a bad thing, because the Party has some issues that need to be aired out and sometimes primaries are the best way to do that.
Another Scott
She’s right, and thank you for highlighting it.
I don’t know Hamish’s (one of Substack’s founders and bigwigs) politics, but he doesn’t seem to be a Melon fanboy when it comes to what he’s done with Twitter.
The most compelling thing about Substack’s model, it seems to me, is that it only makes money from sites that have paid subscribers. Readers and followers and unpaid subscribers add $0 to Substack’s (or the author’s) accounts. If that model changes, then authors can and should re-evaluate their presence there.
Society has a trust problem:
That rings true to me.
Shunning is important, but so is freedom to have and express unpopular (and worse) views. We don’t need a First Amendment to protect popular religion, the popular press, the popular ideas. We need it to protect those that are unpopular, disturbing, different, because progress comes from thinking about things differently and challenging assumptions. It protects the left as much as the right.
Purity kills. Life isn’t black and white. Armchair quarterbacking and kibitzing usually doesn’t accomplish much. Walk a mile in their shoes. Etc., etc. 🤪
Brad DeLong said he almost instantly had more subscribers and readers on moving to Substack than he did from decades of blogging and writing for various online sites. Having an accessible platform that enables that kind of force-multiplication for good and important voices is a very good thing.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Soprano2
@Baud: She’s not a Republican, more toward a Bernie supporter.
Professor Bigfoot
@Soprano2: TBH, to see a Black woman rage at the Black and female led Democrats is disconcerting.
Like, what fucking sense does this make, and do you think you’ll get anything better from the Party of the White Man?
Doug R
The weird thing is that they moved over to substack after I actually donated at their old site. Felt like they left me, to join a website hosted by right wingers that fund right wing douches.
So it’s ok to fund them if the vig is only 10%?
Baud
@Soprano2:
I get that. I’m just saying that any individual of any demo can choose to be in opposition to us. We
shouldshouldn’t regard that as weird.edited
frosty
@KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager)): A few years ago during one of Becca’s money begs I subscribed to Wonkette. I scroll through the posts about once a day and usually find a few that are worth the subscription.
I look at the first two comments, see that there are 1,500-2,000 more and don’t dig any deeper. Just 250+ on this site is a lot to wade through!
It might be worth it just to scroll all the commenters’ nyms. Some of them are very creative. And funny!
Another Scott
@Hildebrand: Before Substack there was (and is) Medium. Obama has posted things there. Dunno about their business model.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@Baud:
Should = shouldn’t
frosty
How often to you disagree with the writer and slam the laptop shut in anger?
Starfish (she/her)
Substack used to have a bunch of diverse writers, but the writers that Substack itself decided to invest in were usually white dudes. I “subscribe” to various Substacks which means I read them. I pay for none of them because I am a monster.
Some folks did leave substack and start their own websites. I think Casey Newton and Molly White both did a while ago.
When people say that Substack allows Nazis to monetize content, that is not hyperbole. Here is an article from November of LAST year in The Atlantic about it.
Hildebrand
@Baud: Yep, thanks – I had forgotten about Medium.
Starfish (she/her)
@Another Scott: Medium allows most folks like five free reads a month, and then it wants you to subscribe for $5. I think the money is distributed amongst the monetized writers. I have a Medium blog, but I don’t Monetize it.
A price cannot be put on the wisdom that I share. 😜
Professor Bigfoot
@hrprogressive: This reminds me of a discussion in a Facebook Black gun group: someone didn’t like Israeli guns because of what they were doing in the West Bank etc.; and I asked, “what gun manufacturing country DOESN’T have a problematic history? The Americans? Hah.”
Ivan X
The TLdr is that Substack is the best and arguably only place where indie writers can write and make money, maybe enough for a living, with minimal or no investment, and organically gain new readers.
Nowhere else offers that, not even Medium, which is less oriented around individual subscriptions. Substack’s owners might be jerks, in their refusal to content moderate and their promotion of some popular right wingers, but they (apparently) treat their writers fairly, regardless of political stripe. Quitting subscribing to a writer it would be like boycotting the nice indie bookshop at the mall because they have to pay rent to the right wing owners who occasionally promote the Trump merch store down on the other end. It’s stupid and counterproductive.
I read a few writers who ditched Substack when the first wave of protest against their owners’ refusal to content moderate even the worst stacks happened.
Several of those who left at the time, including esteemed people like Molly White, and less noteworthy but still amusing people like Ryan Broderick (when he sticks to internet culture and doesn’t crap on Democrats) said, ok, I did it, but I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, and it’s basically impossible to do without major tech savvy; and because they are no longer party of a recommendation network, they don’t get new subscribers as readily, which is how they can sustain living as a full time independent writer.
While Medium also allows for long form writing, I think they’re not as specifically oriented around a writer setting up shop and offering subscriptions that they get to keep 90% of. Substack is really the only place if its kind.
What Rebecca is saying is that it’s wildly non trivial to leave, and that the owners might be chuds in their refusal to content moderate and their enthusiasm for popular right wingers, but they still facilitate writers of every stripe to write whatever they want and make money off of it in a fair way.
Eunicecycle
@Steve LaBonne: you can also read her daily letters on Facebook so you don’t have to….okay I am beginning to see the problem. /s
AM in NC
@Professor Bigfoot: It’s mind-boggling to me that at this point in time, ostensibly smart, politically-aware people are still imagining that the choice in our first-past-the-post political system is between the Democratic Party and some perfect iteration of whatever it is they imagine progressive purity politics to be, rather than between the Democratic Party (led, as you point out, by women and black people) and the White/Male Supremacist Christian Nationalist Party. And they choose to turn their fire on Democrats rather than the White/Male Supremacist Christian Nationalist Party.
Doing the evil people’s work for them is just not a good look.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Per matt at #21 above, I’ve always felt ABL kept her usual unhingedness barely contained although it regularly got out. This one is a pretty big one even by her standards.
But, spend enough time in ‘black spaces’ and there’s an undercurrent of sympatico with what she’s saying. Here in Denver, and we’re not atypical of major metro areas that have seen a veritable mass in-migration of suburban whites over the last decade, things are run by a pale-blue, “progressives” and you get a sense of her perspective, albeit massively toned down.
Their policies are inimical to long-time residents, specifically POC. Some characterize it as efforts to “Make Denver White Again”, and they look at nominally Democratic office holders and the policies they push on behalf of their constituency and react pretty much the way ABL did in that post, asking the rhetorical question “This is our only political option? JFC.” And this is playing out in major metro areas nationwide, it’s not unique to here.
Gary
@KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager)): This rant from Rebecca motivated me also – it got me to subscribe. Funny that it worked better than all the begs.
Baud
I only demand uncompromising purity from my elected representatives.
WaterGirl
@Baud: okay, i edited that one for you since you were saying the opposite of what you intended.
frosty
@Another Scott: The whole post was good, this paragraph in particular. I’ll put on my flame-resistant suit and say that this is what I’m looking for in an information-hosting medium. Seems OK to me.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Thank you.
WaterGirl
@Starfish (she/her): should medium be added to this list?
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
People in our coalition grate on each other? Unpossible.
We should have a pool on whether Republicans will gain more from non-whites or from white liberals coming home.
Steve LaBonne
@Eunicecycle: Actually I subscribe to her free emails so I don’t even support her. I am a bad person. :( (Of course, she does have a day job and well-earned book royalties.)
Eunicecycle
@Steve LaBonne: yes but what email client do you use hmmm?
Scout211
I’m very conflicted about this. On the one hand, I have sympathy for her and do understand her anger. I too am frustrated with so many Democrats and liberals believing that criticizing other Democrats will help the party come together, as long as the party as a whole acts in ways that they personally want them to. We used to be the party of the big tent. But lack of tolerance for differing values and beliefs have eroded that big tent over the past many years.
And as I have commented here before, the triangulation that arises from Democrats criticizing other Democrats for what they believe brings anger and push back. Then the triangulation cycle continuities with people pitted against each other, further dividing the party.
And while I do support her right to be angry, in this commentary it seems to me that she is continuing the cycle of triangulation. I empathize with her anger but I also understand why those subscribers are cancelling their subscriptions. It’s a business and they are consumers that have the right to choose where they spend their money. I may not agree with them but I understand them. Her anger at them stirs our own feelings of anger and probably gets many of us angry at those looking for purity ponies. More division, more people feeling angry at each other and the tent gets smaller.
A description of triangulation if you aren’t aware of it.
I don’t know the answer to this but I do remember that the Democratic party and balloon-juice came together during the first Trump administration. I am hoping that we can do that again, even though we all have different opinions and priorities. But that does not make us enemies.
Steve LaBonne
@Eunicecycle: Gmail of course. I am just another cog in the techbro domination machine. ;)
Another Scott
@Scout211: Note the end of her rant. She loves her readers, even if they stop paying. She just wants them to think about stuff a little more deeply.
My $0.02.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@BubbaDave:
Wrong.
There is no resemblance to twitter. At all. Twitter is a connected graph of time-stamped tweets, with boosting algorithms to guide people along chains of links that align with the owner’s agenda.
Substack is functionally a hosting service. Various sites are largely isolated from each other. If there are links, they are incidental.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Interesting! I quite often agree with what you write and I respect your opinions. In this case, I reacted quite differently to this article than you did.
I saw past her anger – which was definitely present – and focused on her point that at least some of the people who are leaving have not thought this through.
Maybe that’s because I felt she was talking to me – yesterday I was definitely in the neighborhood of “I don’t want to personally support Substack” – and now I think she made some really points.
I think we are already wounded as a party after November, and it would be an own goal to let purity do more damage.
Eunicecycle
@Steve LaBonne: 🤣😂🙃
ETA I forgot we aren’t supposed to use emoji.
KatKapCC
I mentioned this in the “better media sources” thread the other day, but saying you won’t read anything on Substack because there are shitty people there is only going to end up being hypocrisy. Do you ever watch YouTube videos, or subscribe to any YT channels? Guess what! There are shitty people on YouTube. Do you have a Facebook account that you use at least occasionally? More shitty people! Are you literally on the internet at all in any way? So so so many shitty people all over it.
Sometimes people just get an urge to be high and mighty about something. But when you’re also being a hypocrite, it kinda deflates that balloon.
Baud
@Another Scott:
Heresy.
Kay
I think we have to clarify “criticizing Democrats” because there’s plenty of “criticizing Democrats” on this thread.
The objection is not to criticizing Democrats. Its to criticizing Democratic electeds and officials.
ABL is a Democrat and so are most of the “purity ponies” and you’re criticizing them so that’s clearly not off limits.
KatKapCC
@ArchTeryx: Do we know what exactly prompted that post? If it’s anything to do with averting the shutdown, she can shut up. Because SHE would not have been negatively impacted by it, and anyone saying the government should have shut down rather than Democrats compromising is saying they have no problem with other people suffering, which makes them no better then Republicans.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Cole would never do that! //
Another Scott
@Another Scott: ETA – the closing to Rebecca’s rant:
Best wishes,
Scott.
Hildebrand
@Kay: I can’t speak for anyone else, but my frustration is that after an election loss the Democrats do nothing but criticize one another. We shred the candidate that just lost (or even won, but did so the ‘wrong’ way), we pick apart their every strategy and tactic (sometimes in good faith, most often not).
Every one who doesn’t hew the line of whatever the critic is exercised about (and these issues are many, varied, and sometimes contradictory) is labeled some version of heretic.
Real solutions are never offered – just the latest iteration of Green Lanternism.
Nothing is ever good enough (see: Biden’s commutation of those on the federal death row).
Good faith criticism with an eye towards good and just governance is one thing – too often, that ain’t what we are getting.
BubbaDave
@Bill Arnold: Obviously not from a technical standpoint, but from a “sure, we know these guys love them some Nazis but they’re so convenient that we can’t be arsed to switch” standpoint, yes.
The big difference I see is that people are still pretending that the Substack founders are just insufficiently anti-Nazi instead of looking at the extra work they’ve put in (like soliciting signatories to a letter supporting Nazi writers) to keep their site fascist-friendly.
Kay
Because there’s different definitions of “unity” right? From an organizing standpoint unity AMONG and BETWEEN rank and file matters as much as agreement between rank and file and leadership. I would argue it means MORE, long term.
I saw a vivid illustration of this on TikTok with the Amazon strikers. Police were harassing them trying to break the strike and they started a chant (“let him go!” – police had one of them) and Teamsters leadership were off to the side looking sort of bewildered. ABL probably feels a like she’s in the trenches so her loyalty runs to portions of the liberal base, not Democratic leadership.
kindness
Well purity politics never turns out well for the Democratic Party. I mean, Democrats represent the big tent. Lots of different interests, that not everyone agrees on. But we agree enough that we band together and support our candidates/party. Or at least that’s how it’s supposed to work. Purity trolls aren’t really pure. They just want to act that way in front of others.
KatKapCC
@Kay: Given the way she’s talking, I doubt ABL would call herself a Democrat. And it’s one thing to offer valid critique of a party. But calling them an “adversary” to marginalized groups is absurd, and kind of shows that she doesn’t understand how politics has to work in our present state.
Glidwrith
@Scout211: Rebecca isn’t triangulating, she’s not threatening to exclude anyone. After reading the excerpt above, I have changed my mind about reading from Substack.
We have, not just a broken media, but multiple outlets actively conspiring with the fascists. We need to reinforce as much of our reliable media as possible and Wonkette has withstood the test of time.
Watergirl, thank you for assembling the list, it’s helped reinforce several of my media decisions.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: Thanks, Scott!
I didn’t intentionally leave her final note off – it was after a plug for a different way to support Wonkette, so I missed it.
I just added it to the quote up top.
TKH
@WaterGirl:
@Starfish (she/her): should medium be added to this list?
that amounts to “rare” and “well done” erasure! Outrageous! I’m taking my ball and leave for Truth Social!
Kay
@KatKapCC:
The reason I’m still a Democrat is not because of leadership. I actually love the Democratic base, the Right side of the base where I live, the Left side of the base I see online, even the annoying squishy centrists. ABL feels threatened (because she is) and when she feels threatened she takes up on behalf of the most threatened parts of the base – her fellow travelers. Its really just a different definition of unity. Among and between rather than up/down. I actually think among/between is both more powerful and more resilient.
WaterGirl
@TKH: Ha! I guess if I add Medium, I will need to add all three.
Kathleen
@Professor Bigfoot: Me too.
FelonyGovt
To the initial point of this post, I subscribe to two art instructors on Substack. I don’t intend to stop subscribing. As someone pointed out above, there are no “pure” social media, and the two women who run the sites I subscribe to found a reasonably congenial and easy home on Substack.
KatKapCC
@Kay: But one can “take up on behalf” of people without acting like the Democratic Party is basically Maga-lite and they’re all horrid evil garbage, which is how she sounds.
Thoughtful critique is fine, and indeed necessary. Over the top exaggeration is not and does no one any good.
Stella
@AM in NC: You can be a stalwart Democrat voter and still be pissed at them.
@Professor Bigfoot: Many minority groups are perfectly capable of understanding that Democrats are their only option, and also being pissed at that option for not being better. As a trans person, I’m perfectly aware that voting Democrat is my only option, and also that Democratic leadership largely just doesn’t see trans issues as a priority. To be sure, neglect is better than hate! And there are absolutely Democrats that fight the good fight. But it’s generally not a priority.
I summary, I’ll do take the best option, but I also think it’s fair to be pissed that option is so often not living up to their ideals.
KRK
@BubbaDave:
That’s where I’m at.
Stella
@KatKapCC: People can be frustrated and voice those frustrations! People do not have to be perfect spokesman for An Ideal at every moment!
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: She has been like this for a while now. I had to unfollow her when she was on Twitter.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: Same here. I stopped reading her years ago.
KatKapCC
@Stella: No one is saying she can’t be frustrated. I am frustrated with Democrats often, too. But calling them an “adversary” to marginalized groups is hogwash. An adversary is an opponent. The Dems are not the opponents of queer folks, POC, etc. They may not always have marginalized folks’ backs as vehemently as we wish they would (and I say this as someone with a multiply-marginalized household), but that does not make them our opponent.
AndyG
I just signed up for Wonkette. Fuck the purity choads.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@ArchTeryx: Yeah. It doesn’t matter what the Democrats do, try to do and get blocked from doing, or don’t do because they know it will get blocked, they will still be told they suck by the people demanding they do those things.
Baud
I should start a substack.
Stella
@KatKapCC: one’s opponent in a contest, conflict, or dispute
I agree with you as a matter of opinion, but I don’t see that as a simple statement of fact. And if you and yours have to constantly hold the party’s feet to the fire, I don’t think it’s entirely unfair to feel you are in an adversarial relationship. Much as with a boss, you may get along, you may have interests align, but viewing them as friends is a mistake.
It’s a difficult balance, but I don’t think her position is indefensible.
Baud
@Stella:
No one is friends. Whether it’s a political party or any the group of people.
Adversaries are a two way street, so one should be careful in who one designates as an adversary. IMHO.
JustRuss
And all this time I thought the Baud abides.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Geminid: I think you are right. I think their ‘shit on the Dems’ fest is their way of telling the Democratic party ‘only they can fix it’. I think they are wrong. I think the left’s policies are not popular and are the reason so many people go right back to the GOP as soon as Dems clean up their messes.
I’m completely fine with them primarying more moderate Dems. That process is supposed to resolve this kind of thing. The problem, though, is it won’t. When they lose (as they mostly do outside of really, really blue districts), it just makes them madder. They really refuse to believe their ideas are not popular. They are getting as bad as the GOP about not believing a loss was a legitimate loss.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: Thanks.
That “Give Us All Your Moneys a Different Way” button is a way to thread the needle. One can use that button to support Wonkette without giving Substack a cent. (Of course, that button sends a few percent to PayPal or some other electronic money site, so one has to pick their poison.) And one can read everything there without giving Substack (or Rebecca) a cent either – she walks the talk.
Thanks again.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Stella
@Baud: There’s many people in this very thread that’s angry with her! There’s constant stories about leadership being frustrated with their voters! It’s already a two way street!
Professor Bigfoot
@Stella: Heh. Talk to Black people about America living up to its ideals!
Yelling about the Democrats hides us talking about straight white Christian domination lets those white male Christian supremacists off the hook.
“You didn’t do enough to stop the murderers!”
I ask every one, just who did you vote for on November 5 2024?
They want to be mad at Democrats when it’s straight white Christians who have their boots on our necks, and the opportunity to reduce that was last month.
Baud
@Stella:
People in this thread aren’t in the Dem leadership.
But no one is compelled to be part of the coalition. They can choose to be adversaries if they want. We have the same rights as MAGA voters.
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: She blocked me before I could unfollow her, alas.
I’m bummed because I”ve been a follower of hers since she was a front-pager at this joint; but… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Citizen Alan
@Baud: Iirc, james meredith spent most of his post ole miss career working for jesse helms. Granted, having met the man once, I came away with a firm impression that he was somewhat embittered over that Bobby Kennedy playing games with his life dairy, the ole Miss desegregation crisis.
Craig
I’m down with Becca. I’ve supported her for years, and she’s built a shop with fantastic writers that have an irreverent house style like old Creem magazine while being ruthlessly researched and informed. All hail Your Editrix Rebecca.
Stella
@Professor Bigfoot: Nothing we do or say is going to change those people, but we can try to change the Democrat priorities.
Geminid
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I looked up an NBC report breaking down voting last month by demographic groups and ran into a relevent point. When asked to pick among three ideological groups to identify with, 35% said they were Conservative, 42% said Moderate and only 23% said they were Liberal. I was not surprised.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Stella: If I were a politician, I would prioritize what my supporters wanted, not my opponents. I need my supporters. Even if I give my opponents some of what they want, I can’t count on their support.
Another Scott
@Craig: +1
The extra money that she gets via Substack paid subscriptions has let her massively increase the number of (paid) contributors.
And she knows what it’s like to defend free speech. She was sued by Larry Klayman and Don Blankenship. Ana Marie Cox was sued before her. In each case, Wonkette prevailed but had to defend itself.
If Substack works for Rebecca and Wonkette after trying lots of other options – and it clearly does – then she deserves the benefit of the doubt about that decision.
FWIW.
Thanks again.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Kay
@KatKapCC:
I think its about trans rights in the defense bill. I didn’t read the whole thing but I’ve been reading her so long I know how she thinks and I think she would rush to defend such a marginalized group.
FWIW I think Biden had to sign the defense bill, but she probably disagrees.
ABL is sort of unconventional. We corresponded when we were both front pagers here about voting rights, batted around starting an org, and she had some ideas I had never heard and I’ve been reading legal issues surrounding voting rights for 30 years.
Kay
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
I agree with you that the Left won’t admit when their ideas are unpopular and I’m on the Left. Its a problem.
Stella
@Kay: Yeah, it’s about that.
I think we can acknowledge that the Dems treat some parts of the coalition as less important. That’s inevitable! When you have lots of priorities, someone has to be at the bottom of the totem pole. And I think anger from those people is understandable! You can rationalize that it’s a smart choice while still feeling anger.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Geminid: Those numbers sound about right.
Kay
Its grossing me out how much media love Trump threatening Canada, Mexico and Greenland (so Denmark).
They sound like they did at the launch of the Iraq war, when “they” were ready to kick the shit out of a weaker country.
Gross authoritarian bootlickers.
pacem appellant
I am extremely late to this discussion, so what I’m adding is of little value. I both agree with Rebecca and with those who do not like Substack—Molly White, for example, who demonstrates with spreadsheets just how much a ripoff substack is for any site with a paying user base. I am also a subscriber to Wonkette, so I pay them (and Substack!) for news. Rebecca got a sweetheart deal from Substack—something regular substackers are not privy to—and I think that’s awesome! It’s also fair for me (and others) to say no thank you to substack to host my own (moribund) blog/newsletter.
Kay
Donald Trump tells rightwing group that he’ll end women’s boxing “very quickly” – LGBTQ Nation
Anyone who saw that the Right wing/media trans panic was about pushing all women out of sports please collect your prize.
I got an inkling when the anti trans law in Ohio barred many, many more cis girls from the sports they wanted to play than it did trans girls.
The cynicism and bad faith is just breathtaking. This is a full court media/GOP press to push women back and out of sight.
GregMulka
Not only am I okay with them staying on Substack, I was one of the person’s whose sub was reactivated by accident when they moved. I had suspended it when we were in a tight spot and hadn’t turned it back on. We’re not in the tight spot anymore so I shrugged and let it roll. No ethical consumption blah blah blah and I work for an ecommerce company now. I’m not one of the sausage makers but I’m making sure their grinders work. Every website is a mess of adhoc just in time solutions and if you can find someone to handle that mess for you without them taking most of your money you do it.
glc
@pacem appellant: Good points. I haven’t read this whole thread, but these seem particularly to the point. I have one Substack subscription myself. I’m aware they are problematic and likely to become more obviously so as the business plan plays itself out. And in passing – Molly White is a treasure, for other reasons.
Captain C
@RepubAnon:
But they did have a crack suicide squad.
different-church-lady
Goddammit I don’t have a clue what the hell anyone in this post is talking about.
WTFGhost
@different-church-lady: I’m glad the “right” side is, don’t deplatform people. Otherwise, I’d be *all* kinds of confused.