We’ve gotten in the habit of bringing a lot of “big city” food when we come to visit our parents in a small red Dakota town. The grocery stores here are a combination of expensive and mediocre. We used to pack it in the 12 volt compressor fridge of our van, but since we’re transitioning to another rig (not yet built), I needed to get a cooler. We were near a Wal-Mart, so I stopped in and found an Igloo brand 48 quart cooler (iow the big one) for $14.
I just can’t get over that price. It’s a decent plastic cooler, for $14. It would take 2-3 styrofoam disposable coolers to carry the same amount of stuff, and that would be more than $14 at the grocery store. It almost seemed immoral that a cooler of that quality could be purchased for that price. I wonder what kind of slavery and exploitation was involved in the production, shipping and shelving of this item.
I’m a pretty big devotee of “buy once, cry once,” especially as we’ve radically downsized. So I buy very little at Wal-Mart, though when we’re traveling in the rural red south or southwest, I’ll stop a Wal-Mart for groceries simply due to lack of a choice. I’ll also stop at them in Baja because little Mexican tiendas have a terrible supply chain and/or about the same selection as you’d see in a 7-11 in the states. (There are actually stores in Baja with signs of Costco brands that are full of merchandise purchased and carried down the peninsula from the couple of Costcos near the border or near Cabo.)
This is all to say that I’m no purist, and I also don’t think I’m doing the world a favor by picking (for example) Target instead of Wal-Mart — all big box retail is exploitative, as far as I’m concerned. So I’ll hold back my shocked face when I read that economists have finally figured out just how deeply Wal-Marts fucked up rural communities:
[…] [T]hey find that the costs Walmart imposes in the form of not only lower earnings but also higher unemployment in the wider community outweigh the savings it provides for shoppers. On net, they conclude, Walmart makes the places it operates in poorer than they would be if it had never shown up at all. Sometimes consumer prices are an incomplete, even misleading, signal of economic well-being.
This is apparently a surprise to economists, since even the head of Obama’s Council of Economic Advisors believed that the cheap prices at Wal-Mart outweighed the economic harm to the community.
A couple of weeks ago, I listened to Jon Lovett interview Hasan Piker, who’s one of the young guys trying to build a following as an alternative to Joe Rogan et. al. Piker made the point that the rise of Wal-Mart, etc., is part of an implicit social contract: big box retail and chains would take away local retail, decimate Main Street, deliver a bunch of cookie-cutter restaurants with mediocre food, and in return, everything would be cheap. When prices went up, people were pissed, because they had kept their part of the bargain and gotten screwed. That anger was part of the “throw the bums out” election.
This gets abbreviated in the comments here as “cheap eggs”, and, yeah, I get that people shouldn’t vote for racists, sexists and anti-LGBTQ bigots just because prices went up. But I bought that fucking $14 cooler. It was something small and frail and plastic, baby, and cheap is how I feel.
CaseyL
“They sold their souls to the company store.”
The consolidation of retail into a few giant chains, often owned by investors/private equity, has simply turned vast tracts of the US into company towns.
Everything old is new again: the New Gilded Age is upon us.
TBone
I feel your pain all the time here in Pennsyltucky!
TBone
@CaseyL: I just posted the Johnny Cash version of that song in the last thread! Sixteen Tons.
The Unmitigated Gaul
Love your work.
different-church-lady
I don’t know how to navigate a world where one cooler costs $14 and another cooler costs $250 and they both do basically the same thing.
TBone
@different-church-lady: one of them robs people tho – the other is discreet about it.
(Autocorrect just substituted the word “threesome” and I almost left it there.)
rdldot
Then add in that after Walmart’s special tax advantages expire and the stores get old, they leave town and the next option for these people are dollar stores which are showing up everywhere. Lots of places the dollar stores are the only purchasing options left.
different-church-lady
@TBone: I have a feeling the $250 cooler is robbing the same group of people the $14 cooler is. Probably in the same village.
TheOtherHank
Cowboy Junkies for the win!
TBone
@different-church-lady: yep, but discreetly with a nod to status.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@different-church-lady:
It’s so damn hit and miss.
My exception to the “buy once, cry once” rule is tools I’ll use a couple of times. I get those at Harbor Freight and as far as I’m concerned they work fine, and most of the tools there have a lifetime guarantee.
satby
The costs of repeatedly having to replace inferior goods (like clothes and furniture) because Walmart prices are all you can afford has also made people who shop there poorer, but that’s an under the radar effect that only a few economists have noted.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@TheOtherHank: Good catch!
different-church-lady
I believe the only moral decision one can make is to eat warm spoiled food.
MobiusKlein
@different-church-lady:
I was looking at getting a better camping cooler at the local REI recently, and some of those are quite pricey.
Is the material that much better, the manufacturing higher quality, the workers less exploited?
Or just more $ because they can?
suzanne
Consumer goods have dropped in price dramatically in recent decades, but housing, education, childcare, and transportation have dramatically increased.
I also try to be a “fewer, better” things person — because it’s more sustainable. But I understand that lots of my fellow Americans can’t make that choice.
different-church-lady
@suzanne: I bet a lot of people never calculate what percentage of their income goes to insurance.
RepubAnon
Check Robert Reich on economic myth busting. The same themes are present.
Pity that nobody reads about the railroad monopolies during the Gilded Age any more. Same tactics: lower prices to drive out the competition, then jack the prices back up once one has market control. Make sure the cost of establishing a competitor is such that no new businesses can successfully challenge one’s dominance.
I’d guess that the Dollar Store franchise is owned by folks closely aligned with the big box folks.
suzanne
@different-church-lady: It’s horrifying. I sometimes look at this little pie graph of my compensation package, how much of it goes to benefits, almost all of which is health insurance.
Theres also a massive shortage of healthcare workers creeping up on us. Might I suggest that American could use some free college and some skilled immigration?! Nah, that’s crazy talk.
TheOtherHank
Yes. REI has always been overpriced. But, for example, YETI coolers really do keep things cold. The walls and lid are really thick and the hold-the-lid-closed mechanism keeps the lid tight, so the cold air stays in.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@MobiusKlein:
The buzz word is “roto-molded cooler” — they are supposedly much better at holding cold than the el-cheapo I bought. Yeti was the original but now you can buy them everywhere, including Wal-Mart. (Saw some on the shelf when I was picking up the fourteener.
I chose a 12v fridge for our rig (and will do it again for the new one) because ice is a PITA.
Baud
@suzanne:
Regarding immigration, Musk is already pushing for more visas for computer programmers.
They don’t care about immigration except as means to rile up their base.
different-church-lady
@TheOtherHank: But do they keep things 17 times cooler than the cheapie?
satby
@different-church-lady: if Americans ever calculated their taxes AND their costs paid for health insurance AND the money they pay out even for public schools (in property taxes, fundraising, college tuition, etc), AND the additional penny ante stuff we pay (like co-pays and deductibles) then compared that to any socialist hellhole like Sweden or Denmark’s “high taxes” it would really open some eyes.
Though even in those socialist hellholes, the racism causes social problems about who is entitled to benefits.
Harrison Wesley
@suzanne: One of the reasons I like living in Manatee County – public transit is free.
different-church-lady
@Baud:
Huh. He must have some empty dorm rooms at X headquarters.
different-church-lady
@satby: Who has time for all that when you’re busy booking a cruise?
satby
@different-church-lady: The ancient Romans knew bread and circuses worked.
Everything old is new again, because people think history is too boring to learn.
TheOtherHank
@different-church-lady:
Probably not, but I come at this from the perspective of going on multi-day whitewater trips where good coolers and good cooler discipline (know where everything is in the cooler, open the cooler, grab the things and shut the lid) can keep blocks of ice from completely melting away for more than a week.
When I was guiding on the Rogue River in Oregon we used to bring a hand-cranked ice cream maker along and there was enough ice left on the last night of the trip to make ice cream for dessert.
grumbles
I’m just going to take this opportunity to rant for a moment.
The implicit ideology that studying economics seems to impose is really something.
The same person who lights up with intellectual superiority to faux-patiently explain supply and demand to you in one context will abruptly forget how money works when it comes to exporting wealth from a local community rather than reinvesting it.
Rather reminds me of Sunday School teachers trying to distract around an inconvenient part of the Bible.
different-church-lady
@grumbles:
U funny!
Another Scott
A category error if there ever was one.
Dying small towns were dying. It’s not surprising to me that people grasped at the poisoned lifeline they were offered.
The issue it seems to me, as always, is TANSTAAFL. Towns needed to tax the big box developments and they didn’t do that. Whether they had the ability to do that is an exercise for the reader.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
satby
@grumbles: well, Krugman seems pretty solid in his assessments, but then I never saw him make an argument like that. As a wise man said in the previous thread, where you stand depends on where you sit.
TBone
Reposting this “one weird trick” that almost works
https://bsky.app/profile/fancysplace.bsky.social/post/3le7sntrm6s2p
prostratedragon
@CaseyL:
Song like that is making the rounds today: Merle Travis.
Earl
@suzanne:
An (imo) underrated component of Democrats not getting credit for Obamacare is while that it is better than nothing, it’s not much better. The same shit, worsening every year, but now you can buy it too… Not as appealing to many people as you may think. But improving healthcare would require some businesses to make less money, or for PE firms not to hoover up hospitals, so that’s straight out.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@RepubAnon:
Mr Reich is always a good source.
Booman at Progress Pond (and by extension, Washington Monthly) have been writing in great detail for years about the impact of Wal-mart on red, rurl ‘Murka. It’s no surprise that the Atlantic is only just now bothering to write about it, in fact, I’m shocked they did.
prostratedragon
@TBone: ‘S all in who gets robbed. The $14 dollar one is probably wholesale, per MM’s questions about the workers’ wages. The $200 one is bespoke, so to speak, and provides a more useful option not to be robbed.
TBone
@TheOtherHank: we once brought a gas powered, portable generator into the woods for tent camping. For running a blender for frozen drinks. I’m embarrassed at how young and dumb I (we) used to be! We used the tiny, cold, mountain spring-fed creeks to keep the ice in our coolers cold (tethered and weighted down).
Baud
Cold beer > opposing late stage capitalism
TBone
My only current use for beer coolers is to cut a 7″ hole in the end (local hardware store guy does this for free) and fill them with straw and blankets for the local feral cat population to hopefully not freeze to death. Good insulation. Easy to clean too.
dc
If there’d been a few small supply stores instead of a Wal Mart, you would have bought a cooler at one of them for a bit more $$ an a teeny bit less of a boost to the fascist oligarchy. But, what choice did you have now that the US (and other parts) made their choice and there is no other store to buy from?
satby
@Baud: it’s all about priorities, man!
MountainBoy
“But do they keep things 17 times cooler than the cheapie?”
Last October before a week long canoe trip in Utah canyon country, I bought a Yeti knock off cooler at Walmart for $100. We used some ice blocks in the bottom.
We still had decent ice block remnants in the bottom of the cooler when we pulled off the river five days later…so I do think the Roto Mill technology is a thing. As to the overinflated Yeti brand, I doubt theirs could be much better for another $200-300.
The Roto mill coolers are however considerably heavier. I don’t favor moving the new one around much-whether empty or loaded.
Ahhh, first world problems…..
frosty
@TBone: Replace “the economy” with “Rich people’s yacht money.” LOL was a perfect way to read any op-ed.
TBone
This post wasn’t about beer, or coolers, was it?
TBone
@frosty: 🎯
different-church-lady
I just realized something disconcerting: the first thing I ever bought at a Wal-Mart was a cooler set.
It was a chest, a small, and a water jug, and it probably cost no more than $20. It was in the 90s and I still use them, just this past week in fact. We’re talking roughly 66 cents a year.
I will need to discuss this with some kind of cleric to figure out which circle of hell this involves…
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Yeti’s the gentrified one for the brand conscious among us. There are plenty of, noshockhere, knock-off brands from China found via Amazon that have the same results and are $100 cheaper (for a 45 qt version). The smaller ones I’m not sold on, they seem to be about as “meh” as cheapo ones. And we have a 45 qt one for truck camping and ice is good for about 3 days assuming you don’t leave it sitting in the sun, etc.
The best ones tho are the heavy-duty styrofoam ones used by Omaha Steaks. They’re rugged and damn they’ll keep ice frozen for 4-5 days. This company sells the equivalent:
https://univfoam.com/products/cooler/
Prescott Cactus
From the gnarled cigarette stained fingers of a Chinese child to a store shelf near you.
Only you can prevent forest fires. . .and cheap imported goods shortly destined to a landfill by your home.
TBone
@different-church-lady: I still have a soft, collapsible cooler that I purchased at a Tuesday Morning store in the 90s. I don’t remember what it cost, but not over $20 because I was into stretching paychecks then.
p.a.
@TheOtherHank: Yeti lids are insulated. The lid on mistermix’s Coleman is probably hollow. I saw a utube where (it was claimed) drilling a few holes in a hollow cooler cover & injecting with expanding foam increased function significantly. They showed a timed vid with ice, but of course the vid could be doctored.
different-church-lady
Despite my responsibility for it, I suspect the fact that we’re all discussing the quality of different coolers at different prices means we’re missing the point…
Baud
@different-church-lady:
That we need to threaded comments?
frosty
@Prescott Cactus: Landfill if somebody is conscientious. Otherwise, roadside, then local creek, then Chesapeake Bay (or equivalent) then microplastics floating in an ocean gyre.
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I always keep them whenever someone sends food gifts. Used a cut up one for foundation insulation under a heated kitty condo between its floor and the concrete blocks we used to keep it up off the frozen or wet ground. Some were cut up to place in window gaps around a/c units in the summer.
different-church-lady
@frosty: …and finally, the heat death of the universe.
TheOtherHank
@TBone:
Waaaaay back in the ’80s, one of the Grand Canyon guides that worked for the same company I did made a rowing frame for his boat where all the deck plates were solar panels that charged 12V car batteries in a water-tight container. He packed along a 12V DC blender and made margaritas at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Sadly, he wrapped his boat on one of the few rocks down there and destroyed the frame. No more margaritas.
TBone
@different-church-lady: see #46
different-church-lady
@TBone: I have decided that the only way I can navigate the morality of my role in the waste stream is:
* Never throw anything away
* Eventually be crushed to death under a stack of my own consumption
* Let someone else put it in the waste stream after I’m gone
TBone
@TheOtherHank: see, he should have used a bicycle hahaha!
Another Scott
@different-church-lady: 👍
Plus, as soon as I throw anything out, it turns out I need it so I have to buy another one. (Unfortunately, it’s often turned out that I eventually find that I had another one in a different “storage” place, so I really didn’t need the new one anyway.)
Whoever invented “mass” and “volume” has a lot of explaining to do!!
Best wishes,
Scott.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@p.a.:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nng5cI5SHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYSS93-_KrA
https://www.condoblues.com/2023/08/how-to-make-diy-yeti-cooler.html
p.a.
@different-church-lady: You have defined my family’s first generation’s immigrant life in America to a T.
prostratedragon
Krugman wrote this a few days ago:
First courses, at whatever level, are where those nice, smooth models are presented, so the the next couple of years can be spent learning how and why they break down, and what could then happen. Not only is this not what some people want to hear, but it gets technically ugly in a hurry — difficult, unproductive of a clean general solution or both — giving two reasons to try to ignore it, as plenty do.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott: I think is was just this past November I actually used something I saved. So it is indeed possible.
Can’t actually remember what it was, but boy, was it thrilling!
MountainBoy
“Despite my responsibility for it, I suspect the fact that we’re all discussing the quality of different coolers at different prices means we’re missing the point…”
Ha ha ha, I am just practicing trying to keep my head in the sand for the next four years…I am appalled by the fact that a vast majority of people think that “prices are too high” and prices should never go up.
I am also dumbfounded that some folks believe that the next President is going to wave some magic wand and lower prices for food, gas, etc. on Jan. 20th.
Okay-reinserting my head back into the sand now. (or maybe my ass…)
different-church-lady
@p.a.: Jesus, they all got crushed to death?!?
Melancholy Jaques
Not surprising. Economists who get involved in politics subordinate their economics to their political careers. No politician comes out against cheap prices.
TBone
@different-church-lady: my beautiful mountain cabin air was regularly befouled by villagers burning trash they shouldn’t have!
I feel your pain – hubby isn’t even allowed to bring any junk mail past the can in the driveway – deposit only. I donated a ton of stuff to charity for first responders when we moved in here, and I call my propensity toward minimalism and aversion to clutter, simply, wisdom since I’ll never have to pack or move that much stuff ever again!
I constantly feel guilty throwing away the overly done packaging we consume and, just a little while ago, wondered why we can’t get frozen orange juice concentrate in the little cardboard “cans” anymore. It’s all sold in big, plastic laundry detergent jugs now. Laundry detergent has been reduced (dehydrated) to fit into tiny cardboard boxes though.
Hint: Plastic is a petroleum product (byproduct).
House rule: if you bring something in, something else has to go out.
Kelly
I have a 120 qt Yeti that came with my second hand whitewater raft. It’ll hold ice a day or two longer than the my 120 qt Igloo that is 1/3rd the cost. My method of keeping ice on long river trips is put soft coolers inside the hard cooler. This subdivides the space reducing warm air intrusion when you get something out. I originally started putting soft coolers inside so I could unload the contents of the massive cooler in more manageable chunks.
TBone
Good opportunity for a favorite theme song by Malvina!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VUoXtddNPAM
p.a.
@different-church-lady: 🤭 Well… Let’s just say they had an unAmerican aversion to letting go of stuff. Not always a positive trait.
WTFGhost
Well, it’s the model the US was built on. ANY time you lower prices, you improve quality of life. People will use the money they save in *other* economic activity, which will make up for the job losses!”
Note how you can use that as an excuse to exploit workers. “Hey, I’m responsible to the shareholders; if we gave you all a dime extra an hour, it would cost (umpty) dollars!”
I think if Walmart paid their workers a *dollar* extra an hour, they’d make up their costs in increased Wal-Mart shopping. But you can’t try that out, because, hey, the shareholders would rebel.
I believe the reason a Wal Mart can ruin a town, is, so, so, much of the money spent flies away, out of the town, not just “to shareholders”.
Pre-Wal-Mart, you’d expect if there was a nearby farm, then, e.g., potatoes would be obtained from the farm (or, the farmer would cheerfully put in a different crop for next year) Today, potatoes are from the cheapest source. Whether the potato farmer sells his potatoes or not, Walmart didn’t put more money in local circulation, more or less deliberately. “Potatoes are a commodity, and only price matters.”
When any business “creates jobs” it’s expected to be good for all sectors of the economy, but, usually, a business creates jobs that people want to compete for… not minimum wage jobs. And since a Wal-Mart might shutter businesses that paid a more generous wage, suddenly more people are at minimum wage jobs, rather than well-paying ones. So: are people buying nice lunches, and jewelry, and getting cars fixed up, and, and, and? Well, no, most are probably dealing with decreased money.
None of this is any economic doctrine, but the *possibilities” were obvious. Just, some people didn’t ever want to consider them because they don’t follow a doctrine. I bet a competent economist could probably list another half dozen ways a Wal-Mart could weaken a local economy.
I suspect the doctrine that “squeeze the workers” is tied to the notion of slavery, and perhaps symptomatic of how we never quite had a reckoning where we all agreed slavery was *horrible*, and instead let the Confederacy stew in “they took away our property! Our LABOR!”
And I think, when you go through that, over the decades, you end up with people believing most people need a whip hanging over them.
If you believed in freedom, you’d just know you’d eventually find workers who’d do what you wanted, if you paid them enough, and they wouldn’t need a whip hanging over them. (Also, remember, lots of “welfare” has work requirements – does that seem whiplike to you? It does to me.)
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Melancholy Jaques:
And many of his economic advisors should be put on a tiny ice floe and pushed far, far, out to sea.
karen gail
I had gone back to college in early 90’s (Madison colleges had small area colleges so that students didn’t have to move to Madison, it was great for adults continuing education) and Walmart was going to build a superstore outside of town; one of my teachers (accounting) was also a small business owner. She told her classes what had been said at local business conference; the local businesses were trying to keep Walmart from building near town.
She said a group came in to warn the town about what was going to happen. Walmart would buy out some farmer on edge of town who was getting over taxed because a developer had pitched building homes or something that would increase the amount of taxes town would receive. Then before the building was complete they would go around to all the small businesses and offer the good workers and managers a higher salary if they went to work for Walmart. Workers would leave small shops, family businesses and flock to get “good paying jobs” at Walmart; and once Main Street lost most of their businesses and there was no place to get a job but Walmart things would change. Walmart would cut hours to point they no longer had to supply insurance or benefits. This teacher and a few others that were part owners or owners of small businesses asked their students to not be caught up in the promise of something “better.”
It happened just like that, Walmart destroyed Main Street; nearly every business except funeral parlor/furniture store shut down; there had been two small department stores, one carried higher priced items and one catered to everyone else. Neither of those stores could compete with Walmart and then the outlet mall that was built shortly after Walmart had reached point of no full time workers and no benefits or insurance. The worst part was some of these businesses had been there since the founding of the town and some were generational stores that knew and had served local families; gone, destroyed by Walmart.
I have shopped at Walmart of few times, when there was no other place to get something that needed. Like when the local shop that sold fishing licenses had gone out of business and I couldn’t find an open store for license before leaving to go fishing.
RaflW
When I drive I-80 across Nebraska, I see another part of the shitty bargain that rural America has had foisted on it. And I mean literally shitty. And amonia-y.
I started doing this drive around 2012, once per winter (missed a couple years, and for calendar 2024 I’ll do Kansas both ways instead). The rise in feedlot beef raising in those 12 years is obvious to the nose. There’s a few towns out there where I used to sometimes book a Quality Inn or whatever, but won’t now because whole dang towns reek of cow dung and urine, and I can’t take it.
I suppose the locals go nose blind, but it’s not good for them or the land or the cows. All so Conagra and Cargill can sell cheap, pink slime ‘augmented’ tubular beef chubs at (somewhat) low prices. They rely on immigrant labor to process the animal products, too, so the towns have downward wage pressures and, as I’ve commented here before, the immigrants of choice change over time, so that a place like Lexington, NE has seen a shift from Latin American to East Africans over the years.
So far Trump-Vance haven’t attacked and grossly propagandized this “problem” but I’m sure they could.
All this to say, bottom-barrel cost of production has steep social and environmental costs. It’s one reason we eat almost no beef and minimal pork.
Melancholy Jaques
@MountainBoy:
I’m right there with you as far as keeping myself at a psychologically safe distance from events that will destroy my mental and physical well being, aka head in the sand.
But I just do not believe that people voted for Trump because of prices. Sure, there were some. But the inflation excuse is offered because voters know they are not supposed to give answers that show that white supremacy or misogyny was their motivation.
They voted for Trump because they hate the rest of us.
In the morning thread, there’s a bluesky [post?] extolling the beauty of cultural mixing. I’m pretty sure the “us” we are all referencing without defining share that feeling. The people who voted for Trump not only hate that “not-white” culture, they see it as an attack on them. They hate it and they hate the rest of us for liking it.
different-church-lady
@p.a.: I have a gut-level theory about hoarding.
In primitive times, hoarding was an instinct that kept us alive. But back then there were about ten things you could hoard. Today there’s about ten million. The instinct to keep them all for future use is still there but our instincts haven’t caught up to the reality that there is no longer any scarcity.
Soprano2
@suzanne: I was surprised at how many of the nurses in the hospital were immigrants. Those are high-paying jobs, and even here many Americans don’t want to do them.
TBone
@different-church-lady: I wish we weren’t pack animals!
different-church-lady
@WTFGhost:
[Ghost of Henry Ford nods in agreement.]
Gvg
@RepubAnon: dollar stores are declaring bankruptcy. Apparently they over expanded. Haven’t heard the details yet, so I don’t know.
interest rates went up. That changes the economic ecosystem. They were really low for a long time. Consumers weren’t the only ones who got used to rates hardly changing, business did too. I don’t think they are as flexible and used to adjusting as they used to be. I have noticed that Walmart is not reliably the cheapest on groceries and sundries anymore, sometimes my preferred nicer clean “higher priced” local chain has better prices on basic things that Walmart always used to beat them on. It’s happening more often too, not just once in awhile. Also Walmart is out of some of the basics more often. That get really tiresome.
Motivated Seller
This is precisely why Republican dogma has been to redefine Anti-Trust enforcement as whether or not it lowers consumer prices. It makes it easier to camouflage anti-competitive behavior.
different-church-lady
@TBone: I don’t wanna go too far into my ever-increasing problems managing existential angst, but for a few years now I have found my very existence as a mammal to seem tedious and oppressive. “I have to eat again? What the fuck is this all about? How many times am I supposed to eat? And for what, just so it comes out the other end?”
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TBone:
Not to mention the total lack of consistency when it comes to plastic recycling. We just bought a 20′ section of RCA cable. The plastic bag has very clear instructions for recycling…if you live in one of 8 European countries. Not a word about here in ‘Murka.
Thus, one is left wandering if it’s recyclable and if not, how would it contaminate the feed resulting in throwing everything out with a given batch.
But no, here in freewheeling, we-hate-regulations-of-any-kind ‘Murka, we’ve never been able to do what those evil, soshulist bastards in Yurp have done.
Prescott Cactus
@p.a.: That will work and the cost is only a can of the expanding foam. Have lots of newspapers underneath.
PRO TIP: Let the foam dry before trying to clean up. Once it hardens it’s easy to work with.
tobie
I’ve been reading about the built-in obsolescence of cheap products at Walmart since the 1990s. It’s one of the many reasons I wouldn’t buy expensive equipment there. Portable coolers from Walmart will likely have the same durability as from any other store.
As for Hasan Piker: oh my, that’s a new low for this blog. Most American Jews think he’s a raging antisemite but, I’ve been told all too often, that Jews have weaponized that charge.
I’m curious which direction the party will go in. If it’s toward the populist left, I will likely cease to be a Democrat and abstain from voting. I cannot support a party that tolerates antisemitism.
Sister Golden Bear
@Baud:
Musk is pushing for H1-B slaves.
It’s not a coincidence that the majority of Twitter workers who weren’t laid off were H1-B workers, who are deported on short notice if they’re no longer working for the employer who sponsored their H1-B status. Plenty of other Silicon Valley companies also exploit H1-B workers — and use it drive down wages for workers who are U.S. citizens. Ask me how I know.
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: recycling is mostly a lie – most of it ends up on barges shipped to poorer nations.
Not for long though
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/702501726/where-will-your-plastic-trash-go-now-that-china-doesnt-want-it
Kristine
@satby: The Vimes Boots Theory still says it best.
Soprano2
@Another Scott: What are you doing in my house? I had a hard time impressing on hubby that it didn’t matter that you had something if you couldn’t find it!
TBone
@different-church-lady: but life is tedious and oppressive, even if you’re doing it right! Angsty thoughts like yours occur to me all the time too but I quickly change my focus (head in sand for survival).
tobie
@Sister Golden Bear: @Baud: It’s complicated. Some visible Trump supporters have been tweeting recently about that H1B visas have changed the character (and race) of America. See this from Josiah Lippincott and David Sacks. That was on Dec 24. On Dec 25 Musk responded by saying there’s a shortage of engineering talent in Silicon Valley. He’s now playing “good” immigrant vs “bad” immigrant. I’ll be curious to see how fast the rest change their tune to be consistent with Pres Musk.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Sister Golden Bear:
Thank you for bringing this up. Some additional reading for those interested in the scam/abuse that is the H1B visa system:
https://www.cringely.com/2015/06/15/the-h-1b-visa-program-is-a-scam/
Also, read the comments from a DougJ post about this very thing back in 2015:
https://balloon-juice.com/2015/08/18/born-in-the-usa/#comments
Now, one thing I could get behind is a H1B Visa program for CEOs. The people we currently have are way overpaid and the H1B visa program exists solely to drive down costs so why not start at the top? Surely some foreign competition would increase shareholder returns and company profitability. The market just isn’t functioning properly at the executive level!
different-church-lady
@Soprano2: Even John McCain was trying to tell us that in 2008: “You won’t pick lettuce even for $50 an hour!”
WTFGhost
@WTFGhost: Sorry, brain glitching, shouldn’t have posted.
different-church-lady
@TBone: Perhaps, but I think it might be a bit… uh… unbalanced, shall we say, to be thinking, “TOMORROW I AM GOING TO TAKE MY LAST SHIT AND BE DONE WITH THIS TEDIOUS TASK OF SHITTING FOREVER!!!”
different-church-lady
@TBone: “I have traveled here from the future to tell you which bits of string you will actually need!”
different-church-lady
@tobie: “Immigrants are bad, unless I can exploit them,” is not in the least little bit surprising. Sociopaths.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TBone:
I know that.
The Totebagger Radio piece is also now 5 years old and doesn’t take into account what efforts, in this instance the EU, did in response to countries like China stopping their acceptance of such stuff. One piece from the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/21/europe-is-beating-its-addiction-to-plastics-why-is-the-us-so-far-behind
I’ll be the first to admit that we’ve got a long way to go on this and the lack of transparency in some cases doesn’t help. But one way toward that goal is to set some consistent regulations on it. Hah, who am I kidding!
Soprano2
@Gvg: Boy did they, we have a bunch of different type of dollar stores as well as several Wal-Mart Supercenters and Wal-Mart Neighborhood Markets. They’re the best place to buy gift bags; I can get one at Dollartree for $1.25 that would cost me $5.00 at Wal-Mart!
I shop at Wal-Mart every week, because my alternative is Target which is all the way across town from me. I also shop at Aldi. I’ve noticed that the things Wal-Mart stocks aren’t as cheap as they used to be. I think they’re trying to compete with Target for customers.
Soprano2
@different-church-lady: I feel that way about laundry and cleaning the house. “How did the house get so dirty and unkempt in just a week? Why do I have all these clothes to wash?”.
Baud
@tobie:
Vivek weighs in.
Baud
Dupe
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Sister Golden Bear: Of course, now that they are more comfortable with remote workers, they aren’t bothering to get visas for them. They are just opening their data centers in India or hiring contractors that are based in India. That’s even cheaper
I think the only reason Musk is still pushing for H1B visas is because he wants to belittle his employees in person.
different-church-lady
@Baud: Goddamn, the moment someone capitalizes the word “TRUTH” it’s like a blaring siren has gone off screaming SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM!!!!
different-church-lady
@Baud: DON’T CALL ME THAT!
Motivated Seller
I think the simpler explanation is that the cooler is a “loss leader”.
tobie
@different-church-lady: Agree, and one of the many ways in which immigrants are exploited besides being subjected to horrible working conditions is when they’re used as a political wedge issue. Republicans have engaged in pure, undiluted demagoguery and undisguised demagoguery on immigration, and the media let them get away with it.
different-church-lady
@Motivated Seller: Which makes me feel better that a cheap cooler is one of the very few things I’ve ever bought in a Wal-Mart.
tobie
@Baud: Gawd, Vivek’s revolting.
RaflW
@TBone: This gets me really grumpy. I’d like there to be real recycling. But if there isn’t, then all that (somewhat) carefully sorted plastic should IMO be going into waste-to-energy plants.
We have one in Minneapolis. Right now the city uses some opaque process to send some trash there, and other trash to landfills. But the city also tells us to just throw away things like standard AA and D cell alkaline batteries (we can drive to another city to ‘recycle’ them). But I assume we’re burning some amount of metals, including CFLs that people improperly sneak into (or unknowingly place in) their trash.
If we could divert all that solid petroleum now being shipped to countries that don’t really want it, and burned it, at least we’d get the BTUs out of that oil (or, sometimes, corn byproducts…). It wouldn’t really burn dirtier than the mixed crap people toss, quite possibly cleaner
eta: I haven’t looked in recent years, but much-more-space-constrained European nations have burned trash for a long time. I hope they have the sense to at least generate area steam and/or electricity with it.
Another Scott
@karen gail: Thanks. I greatly appreciate that quick summary.
I avoid WalMart. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t feel as bad shopping at Amazon as some – <a href=”https://www.forrester.com/blogs/amazon-vs-walmart-revenue-and-profit-comparison-2010-2024/”>WalMart is still bigger than Amazon in US Retail and has a larger profit margin there. (Amazon makes much/most of its money on AWS.)
About 20 years ago we bought a bunch of Halloween candy at the local Walmart. We bought too much, so decided to take the excess back. Maybe it was our particular store, but it was a rage-inducing experience. Very long line, then we were treated as if we were almost criminals for wanting to return stuff with the receipt. I don’t think I’ve shopped there since. (My step-mom would go to WalMart to buy a cheap pre-cooked chicken and that’s it.)
I don’t begrudge people their choices, but it’s not for me.
Thanks again.
Best wishes,
Scott.
WTFGhost
@different-church-lady: Could that be a sign of depression?
It’s a not-uncommon sign, especially if a person is not eating regularly. It’s like, you shut down the hunger symptoms, but then you need to start them back again, and that feels, “oh, WHY???” and then you kinda-sorta shut the hunger down.
It could also be a sign of *any* medical disorder that causes fatigue, I believe – sufficient fatigue is inherently depressing, and I’ll read from DSM-V to support my hypothesis, but, please remember, I’m not a therapist or an MD, just a guy who knows a lot about mental health, while figuring out his own issues. So it could be low thyroid (in my humble opinion), and hence, worth checking out.
Plus, it’s an odd symptom, but it might be a recognizable one. You’re experiencing it for the first time, doctors may have crammed the specific symptom and differential diagnoses during med school. So (assuming you haven’t ) it’s worth talking to a doctor about, in my very humble opinion.
wenchacha
Apologies if it has already been noted, but Walmart gets sweet tax incentives when they come to rural towns, because JOBS!
Then, when the incentives are finally removed after 10 years or so, suddenly Walmart finds another rural area, ripe for plunder. They pack up the old, and move to the new. I guess it makes shareholders and politicians happy anyway.
Soprano2
@different-church-lady: I think this way about dressing and undressing too. I wish I had a magic wand that could make it happen without any effort. I don’t know why I feel that way about it, I just know I do.
apocalipstick
@rdldot:
Do you have a citation? I’m not aware of Walmart closing in the way you reference.
Starfish (she/her)
@CaseyL: How many of these private equity owned things shut down over the holiday season because private equity doesn’t care about your community?
Party City
Big Lots
prostratedragon
“Damn boxes!”
Just Visiting
Please enjoy this video of Steve Earle performing “Thinking About Burning Wal-Mart Down”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rULOnBOOVU8&ab_channel=unARTigNYC
Kayla Rudbek
@different-church-lady: Vimes’ boots explains a lot of the difference in costs (materials, durability, better design) and fancy labels explains most of the rest of the difference (you’re paying for the trademark/name/hype even though it may be the same quality, some of the factories are contracted to make x number of units, they make 2x and sell the extra units out the back door, so to speak).
Then of course there’s the flip side of counterfeit goods which are generally lower in quality than the original goods (Customs and Border Protection would do a booth at the National Trademark Exhibition and the melted counterfeit UL extension cords were always frightening).
Starfish (she/her)
@MobiusKlein: Those Yeti coolers are one jillion dollars.
apocalipstick
@different-church-lady: They might keep it cold 17 times longer. That is a real benefit.
different-church-lady
@WTFGhost: I have accepted that the inner-narrative of depression will always be with me, in the background, no matter what the personal circumstances of my life are (which, as of the moment happen to be quite happy!).
That wisdom means I can manage those thoughts with humor (as displayed). But it makes for a disconcerting moment-to-moment existence. I’ve been thinking that some entry-level meditation might be good for my diet.
Also: I do appreciate the suggestions.
chemiclord
There’s a part of that contract with big national chains that everyone wants and accepts, but never wants to admit to:
That everything is the same, everywhere you go. We want to be able to go out “in the world” and know that no matter where we go, the same comfortable names and logos and companies that we recognize from our home town are also wherever we go.
Because no matter how much we SAY we want to experience the world… we really don’t. We want more of the same, no matter where we are.
Another Scott
@Soprano2:
I’ve been looking for a thread to post this, so thank you!
Short Wondermark series on “your home may be haunted”.
HTH!!
Best wishes,
Scott.
Kayla Rudbek
@satby: and Sir Terry Pratchett noted it as well.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott: “I GUESS WE’RE GONNA BE HIT BY LIGHTNING BECAUSE I CANNOT WITH THIS WHOLE WHATEVER!” pretty much sums up my entire inner narrative nowadays.
NutmegAgain
@prostratedragon: Rational Choice was much in vogue when I was a grad student. Since I was not in economics, it made me completely crazy. Of course, post modernism and its discontents was also in vogue, also drove me crazy.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: [ sigh ] Linky fail.
WalMart is still bigger than Amazon in US Retail and has a larger profit margin there.
Sorry.
Best wishes,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott: [Bezos pushes button on phone, buys Wal Mart.]
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@RaflW:
https://www.investigate-europe.eu/posts/burning-questions-remain-over-europes-waste-incinerators
different-church-lady
@chemiclord:
I sure don’t.
I guess that’s one of the many things that makes me an un-American weirdo.
Sister Golden Bear
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Not unlike business executives forcing employees to return to office full-time, despite ample research it’s actually counterproductive for most businesses. I mean what’s the point in having serfs if you can’t look out survey the majesty of the cubicle farm* from your corner office.
*Except cube farms are a quaint remnant of the past here in Silicon Valley, now it’s all long tables with employees sitting literally shoulder to shoulder. Funnily enough all the senior executives touting how this creates magical collaboration** always have their private offices. Why it’s like it’s somehow it’s easier to concentrate and actually get shit down when there aren’t multiple conversations going on around you. No, I’m not bitter….
**And not about squeezing as many employees into the minimal amount of office space, no definitely not that.
different-church-lady
@Sister Golden Bear: Years ago I came up with the parody of the split-level cubicle. “95% percent of the time people are sitting in their cubicles. All the space above their heads is going to waste!”
I never said it much because I was afraid they’d actually do it.
Another Scott
We’ve talked about this some in earlier threads. VirginiaMercury.com:
Good, good.
Best wishes,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott: Are you trying to tell me this government still has functional components?
Soprano2
I will admit that it was nice to go to Wal-Mart on Maui and get stuff at almost the same prices we pay here in Springfield, because Maui was uber expensive!!!
Sister Golden Bear
@Kayla Rudbek:
Saw a YouTube video aimed at folks running drop-shipment businesses (you set up an online storefront, have orders fulfilled directly from Chinese companies) that talked about how regulatory changes by the Biden admin were effectively going to shut down most of that sort of trade, including big players like Temu and similar companies. (I believe they take effect in 2025.) One major driver for the regulatory changes was unsafe products being imported. Didn’t specifically mention counterfeiting, but the video mentioned things like the hoverboards that kept catching fire due to defective batteries, unsafe health products, etc.
Eunicecycle
@WTFGhost: I always said, WalMart creates its own customers. It drives out businesses so people have to take poorer-paying jobs, then have to shop at WalMart for the cheapest prices. I saw it happen in the town I grew up in.
Mr. Bemused Senior
Bemused Senior referred to this as “like working in a bus station”. Cisco adopted this approach and that was it for her.
satby
@Soprano2: no, even here they require levels of schooling a lot of (white) lower income kids either don’t aspire to or don’t have the fundamental skills for because of home schooling (science is what our religion says it is) and badly funded public education. In the 1970s I got tossed out of a Catholic hospital nursing program because they wouldn’t teach contraception, so I (who was older than my classmates) got a copy of Our Bodies, Our Selves and taught the girls (it was all girls) who were interested. It’s even worse today, because Nursing is college based now, for the most part. Which requires passing grades in science and microbiology.
Eunicecycle
@RaflW: I had to drive across Nebraska to visit family and I hated it for the stick! Hours of awful STINK!
satby
@chemiclord: also a factor for many people. Which is depressing. To me anyway.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@tobie:
I know nothing about the guy other than he was on PSA and he turned up on a Google Search for a Casar interview on my next post. However, Lovett (Jewish) interviewed him a few weeks ago so I’m wondering exactly how that happened given this charge.
Kayla Rudbek
@Sister Golden Bear: yes, this is why I believe that the vast majority of businessmen/merchants are crooks who need to be kept in line with force. Army brat here and there’s a long tradition of the military getting screwed over by the contractors and/or the sutlers and getting poor quality food and equipment (going back to at least the Napoleonic Wars, plenty of Civil War examples, we inherited this bad behavior from the English) and probably back to the ancient Romans at least.
I got a book about the Poison Squad for Christmas yesterday, have started glancing at it, and one of the things that immediately came up was sale of bad beef to the US military in the Spanish-American war (1890s if I recall correctly).
prostratedragon
@rdldot:
@apocalipstick:
The case of Winnsboro, SC in 2016 might fit. The link is to a News Hour segment. Some in the town felt quite used by Walmart.
It appears that in the 8 years since, the town has put a lot of effort into town center revitalization. On the other hand, the African American majority town has lost 9 percent of it population since 2010.
satby
@Kristine: @Kayla Rudbek: never read either, many thanks for the pointers. Now if the majority of economists would just catch up to fiction writers. I think John Rogers also touched on it in Leverage too.
prostratedragon
@NutmegAgain: One could tease out some kind of, um, crazy horseshoe theory from that. If one were crazy.
Kayla Rudbek
@Soprano2:
@satby: satby is correct, nursing requires science and math which most of the homeschoolers can’t or won’t do. Also, if an ambitious woman with the math and science skills has her choice, is she going to be a nurse or is she going to try to be a doctor or engineer instead?
karen gail
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
In the US progress? has been made to get rid of single use plastic bags, fast food items while at the same time many products are now packaged in plastic. One item I first noticed was mayo or salad dressing jars are now plastic; at one time it was a good way to replace broken canning jars. So not only are many companies replacing glass with plastic but the glass jars you do get have a different lids so that you can’t use them for canning.
Yes, glass is recyclable but so many places can no longer ship to place where recycling takes place it ends up in landfill. How many places who once shipped to China are now shipping to other states where they have bought up old dumps? When I lived in Wisconsin “Waste Management” bought the local dump/recycling center. For a hefty donate and cut of profits they turned old quarry into massive hill that will one day become a problem. But for now they are importing from surrounding states solid waste with little or no regulation of what is going into that fill.
Kayla Rudbek
@satby: I think that Pratchett was taking on modern economics when he developed the character of Moist von Lipwig. I won’t say anything else because I don’t want to spoil the books for you.
Also, as you live in South Bend, I would highly recommend Unseen Academicals where I would swear that he had read about Notre Dame football before he wrote the book, despite being an Englishman.
Ohio Mom
@WTFGhost: That was the unifying theme of the 1619 Project: modern American ills all have their roots in slavery — the way workers are mistreated, our lack of nationalized health care, our sadistic prison system, etc., etc.
TBone
@different-church-lady: hahahaha!
Ohio Mom
Skipping ahead (so maybe someone else has already made this point): They aren’t Dollar Stores anymore, they are A Dollar Twenty-five Stores.
And for that $1.25, you get less, there is quite a bit of shrink inflation going on. I used to be able to buy four bars of soap for $1, then it went down to three bars for $1, now it’s $1.25 for two small bars or one big bar, depending on the brand.
Still the best place to party supplies and tissue and wrapping paper though.
different-church-lady
@Ohio Mom: I see you have no choice left but to vote for fascism.
Kayla Rudbek
@Ohio Mom: modern factories have their roots in sugar cane processing under slavery as well; I was listening to an audiobook version of Tom Standage’s An Edible History of Humanity and he goes into detail about that. And then how sugar fueled the industrial workers in England during the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.
Another Scott
@different-church-lady: Obligatory ExistentialComics.com on choice, and other things.
Hang in there, everyone.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Mai Naem mobile ¹
@rdldot: dollar stores do a lot of shrinkflation. During covid you could get isopropyl alcohol for a dollar but it was several ounces less than you would have paid at walgreens. Also, they do imported branded stuff you assume is american made – like oral-b toothbrushes which are normally American made but the dollar store ones which are unusually cheap for oral-b’s are made in India. I think they even had colgate toothpaste which was made in India.
TBone
I prefer the term frugal.
I might be cheap, but I ain’t easy!
tobie
@@mistermix.bsky.social: I guess it matters what communities you pay attention to. Jewish Democrats were livid that PSA legitimized Piker after the election. That Casar platforms him tells me that the Progressive Caucus is fine with some forms of hate (not that I ever doubted that). Truly if the lesson from 2024 is that the Democratic Party needs to move toward a populist progressive position, I am bolting, as will many others, I suspect. An advanced economy is complicated. The binary logic of good people and bad non-people (fat cats, pigs, the elites, Hollywood, Zios, etc.) doesn’t begin to address any of our problems. It does, however, gin up self-righteousness and hate.
TBone
@WTFGhost: I can say for sure it is not a symptom of joy and happiness. But I hesitate to assign medical/physical connotation.
When I’m depressed, I can’t feel much of anything at all except fatigue. No energy for angst.
TBone
@prostratedragon: 💜
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Soprano2: I have always been jealous of cats and their fur coats, appropriate for all occasions. And they don’t have to dress and undress. Only downsides is heat of the summer and the amount of grooming maintenance required.
satby
@Kayla Rudbek: if he’s panning Toxic Masculinity Opus Dei U, I’m all in!
FDRLincoln
Here in my neck of the Midwest (Kansas, Missouri, Iowa), Dollar General has wiped out the rest of local places that managed to survive Wal Mart. DG goes into towns that were too small for WM and destroys the local grocery.
Martin
@tobie: the problem is that you can’t really afford to hold that standard in an age of shifting media consumption. It’s not as though the old media guard were any better (see Medhi Hasan kicked off of MSNBC for being too critical of Israel) but the new entrants aren’t going to be pure vessels either.
The new media landscape, which Joe Rogan became symbolic of, are going to be a hot mess of good and bad ideas but generally much less ideological than before. These aren’t individuals you are supposed to brand as good or bad, but just normies that happen to have a microphone. They’re going to say dumb shit, and then a month or a year later they’ll denounce that dumb shit because it was dumb, because that’s how people are.
Someone going on Pikers show doesn’t need to ‘endorse’ Piker. They can just be on his show and call out his dumb shit when he says it. But that interchange is what helps a LOT of people understand why it’s dumb. And that’s one of the problems with antisemitism – it can never be discussed and debated except at arms length because the media space is segregated, because nobody is allowed to go on Rogan’s show or Pikers show and call them out.
Democrats are going to have to figure out whether they are in favor of corporate messaged/ideological media or non-messaged media, because voters want the latter by a LOT while Democrats don’t seem to know how to operate outside of the former.
Martin
@karen gail: I’m generally of the view that everything should be sold in standard canning jar size/threading – pint or quart. It’s our go-to for storage, with the downsize that they don’t stack when empty, but are infinitely more flexible otherwise. We’re getting a slow return of deposit/return glass containers for dairy at the stores near me, and I’m all for it.
jonas
I remember back in the 90s (iirc) Walmart had this big “Made in the USA” campaign where their ads boasted about how the company’s policy was to “buy American” wherever possible. After a year or two, it was memory-holed with extreme prejudice as their customer base responded firmly with “Fuck America! We want cheap Chinese shit and we want it now!”
And here we are. Americans say they want to support domestic industry, but when push comes to shove, they’ll go for the cheaper (i.e. imported) alternative every time. Kind of like they tell pollsters they’d support higher taxes for better schools or would be willing to pay an extra buck or two for a take-out meal if it meant the workers were paid fairly. They lie like goddamn rugs. They’ll pitch a fit and vote for fascist revolution if it comes down to it to avoid paying a cent more for anything.
Ruckus
@MobiusKlein:
I worked in the mold making for plastic products industry. If I listed some of the products I helped or made on my own in the over 1/2 a century I did this type of work, most everyone would know of or have used the products those tools produced. Bottle molds for food products, molds to make toys – for very well known toys, molds for entertainment things like clear covers for stereo equipment. Tools for the medical industry. I’ve stated this here before but if I gave out names most people would recognize at least some of those products.
Our world revolves around plastic products rather than metal or glass any longer. Who has a drinking water fountain at work or home that you pay for 3 or 5 gallons of water so you don’t have to drink out of the faucet? You know, the water you use in the shower. Orange juice, milk, dish soap and shampoo, soda, prescription bottles, ice cube trays, your cell phone – all plastic, as are most things in our lives any longer. Even milk cartons have plastic on both sides of the paper they are made of. DVDs, CDs, the containers that they come in. The upholstery in your car (if you don’t have actual leather) I’ll stop here, although there are far more of the things that most of us use/own that are made partially or all out of some type of plastic.
Just Some Flyover
@Soprano2:
I would venture that most people would not be capable of becoming a nurse. There’s a lot of schooling even before nursing school itself. And even if you’re book smart and make it through there are those who frankly just can’t put it all together and actually DO the job well. I’ve seen it a lot in my career.
Ruckus
@jonas:
Some of that revolves around paychecks. And employers like shitforbrains – who think that every cent in a paycheck is coming from their massive brain and that workers are next to useless. Most people I’ve ever employed worked hard and produced well. Now understand that we paid well, but the people earned it. Any, and every business that is owned by a wealthy person that thinks their employees are stupid and absolutely do not deserve enough money to purchase a blanket, let alone rent or food, and that the entire concept of the business is their brilliant and selfish mind is full of shit.
Ruckus
@Just Some Flyover:
There are many jobs that require more than just smart. Logic, physical control, possibly working in a dangerous situation. Signing checks is not dangerous – unless you stole the money in the bank account. Sure one can get a paper cut signing a check but many jobs have far, far, far more dangerous risks involved in them. Ever worked 75-80 feet off the hard surface, with a safety harness you tied? I have. Ever been to firefighting school? I have. Ever been gassed, you know, chemicals injected/burning in the air you breathe? I have. Ever been shot at? I have. Life can, and often is, rather dangerous. Ever been in a vehicle crash? I have and not my fault. Now it isn’t as unsafe as it used to be, but there are still risks to life. We work to lessen the risks that most people used to face on a daily basis, but there are still risks to living, breathing, eating, etc.
Ruckus
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Roto-molded increases slightly the density of the molded product is what I was told when I used to build tools that made molded plastic products. But it adds a cost to the mold and the machine that makes the products. There are different methods of plastic part manufacturing but the concept of most plastic products is pricing of the finished product. Certain kinds of machines can be multiples in cost over others that can create a similar part. The cost of the mold to make the part can vary a lot based on how big the part is, how the part is actually formed and surprise of surprises – how many parts per hour can be made. (I used to be in the business…)
Gloria DryGarden
@TBone: big enough pieces of styrofoam make a great yoga block. Just duct tape around it for stability, containment, and of course, color choice.
Gloria DryGarden
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: my friend uses Ridwell for hard to recycle stuff like plastic bags. I think it’s a subscription service. I’m negotiating w her to slip a few of my things into her box. You’d have to look up what they take, but definitely plastic bags.
id’ much prefer things got recycled. it sometimes is easier and simpler to just toss it in the trash, but it bothers my conscience.
Gloria DryGarden
@Martin:
im going to try and figure out what this means, messaged, and non messaged media. I either don’t consume it anyway, or I just can’t keep up with all the lingo.
democrats don’t know how to operate…. ? Seems useful to ponder. I’ll try
tobie
@Martin: I’m sorry…we would’t tolerate anyone going on a show where the host had made noxious claims about any other group but we’re supposed to shrug it off when a host says some Jews are inbred and thus, I assume, closer to mongrels. Fuck off.
Gloria DryGarden
@Ohio Mom: and wtf ghost
Hulu has a 6 part series on the 1619 project. I have not started watching it, but it looks promising. Difficult history, I need to face it.
ETA Thanks to NotMax for reminding me and encouraging me to look into cyber Monday pricing! It’s his fault that I’m watching stuff on Hulu all the time. Yay
Martin
@Gloria DryGarden: So, anything on TV is messaged/corporate. Some producer is there, a team of writers, they hire specific people to deliver their message, which they fire/reprimand when they don’t. We all saw 60 Minutes bury a story on the tobacco industry for fear of lawsuits. They have specific loyalties in terms of what audience they are trying to attract and what advertisers they are trying to appease. MSNBC and Fox are two sides of the same coin. CNN decides they need a more rightward slant, so they engineer that. MSNBC makes sure they aren’t too critical of Democrats, Fox not too critical of the GOP. This isn’t a feature of the host but of ownership. It doesn’t matter if the Washington Post editorial board wants to endorse a candidate – the owner decides.
Individual creators have similar conflicts of interest, but there are so many of them you can just swap them out when they breach trust, unlike cable where there are a limited number. Part of this involves not developing a relationship with the creator, so that you aren’t emotionally invested in them. But you also don’t get the kind of loyalty to specific interests, so you get actual criticism of the DNC from people with progressive ideas. You also get mixes of economic leftism with racism – it’s messy. And if you expect the kind of cookie-cutter support for party politics, you won’t find it. There’s going to be some shit in those cookies, and you can’t be so puritanical about things because these people are normies, not trained pundits. It’s going to be a journey, and the journey is important. A lot of the popularity of some of these guys like Destiny is that they went from hanging out with alt-right folks to being leftists on a lot of matters – and you get to witness that transition. It’s no different from how this used to be a conservative blog and we watched Cole transition. We don’t think less of him for that – we think more of him for it. But man, he had some dumb shit ideas back then. As did I. These becomes spaces for the dumb ideas to come out, and be engaged with. You don’t get that on cable. And the lack of engagement is problematic.
RevRick
@different-church-lady: Yeti coolers are made in the Philippines. They are heavy, because they are over engineered.
RevRick
@suzanne: We are definitely going to experience a demographic squeeze as Baby Boomers retire and the pool of younger workers is smaller. This is especially true in the healthcare sector, which has been one of the growing sectors of our economy, the other being the FIRE sector. But other industries facing this are airline pilots and air traffic controllers, HVAC repairmen, welders, plumbers and electricians, all fields that require intense and ongoing training, and some with high burnout.
Gloria DryGarden
@Martin: it’s complex, then, isn’t it? Somewhere in here, is the route to more clear informative info sources. I don’t consume enough of it to become a useful agent
but your answer clarifies … about why things aren’t very clear, yet.
I see that my hunt for a solution is not any sort of straight path; one would need to tolerate and engage with, a lot of variability…
Really great answer and I hope a lot of people read it. I think it will lead us to useful directions .
Citizen Alan
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: A month or so ago, I was startled when a co-worker furiously described Gavin Newsome as “Mussolini” for signing a bill to phase out plastic bags in CA stores beginning in 2026. Seriously — Mussolini. That’s what we’re up against in any attempt to protect the environment.
Citizen Alan
@Soprano2: I was so angry at Bezo’s Post refusing to endorse that I canceled my Amazon Prime account … only to reinstate it before it finally went out. I realized that after Amazon, the next best option for having goods I need shipped to my apartment was Walmart which is, IMO, worse than Amazon, and every option after that was more expensive and probably evil in less obvious ways. One of the “features” of late-stage capitalism is that there is no way to disengage with it without becoming a hermit, if not a homeless person.