So, if you, like me, were wondering how the Republicans were going to handle the inherent contradiction of a nativist base that wants all filthy immigrants out and a billionaire wealth extraction class that requires loads of cheap immigrant labor to continue to reap profits for them, we are finally getting a taste of how that will play out:
TNR:
Right-wing influencer and Donald Trump gadfly Laura Loomer is attacking Elon Musk, seemingly over his desire for more immigrants to work and study in science and technology fields in the United States.
In several posts on X Thursday, Loomer railed against Musk and his influence on Trump. She attacked Musk’s “Department of Government Efficiency” project with Vivek Ramaswamy, calling it a “vanity project” on Wednesday before accusing it as a smokescreen for “the pet projects of tech bro billionaires” on Thursday. She also claimed that there would be a falling out between Musk and Trump soon.
Don’t worry guys.
The divorce is coming soon.
— Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) December 26, 2024
In response, Musk accused Loomer of being a troll and said she should be ignored. Loomer continued her attacks unabated, calling the tech CEO a pawn of China, resorting to homophobic and racist insults, and accusing Musk of having “bought his way into MAGA.”
“Remember when you voted for Biden and propped up @GovRonDeSantis and you said Trump was too old? We all know you only donated your money so you could influence immigration policy and protect your buddy Xi JinPing,” Loomer wrote in one post, and in a follow-up, she called Musk “a total f****ing drag on the Trump transition.”
“He’s a stage 5 clinger who over stayed his welcome at Mar a Lago in an effort to become Trump’s side piece and be the point man for all of his accomplices in big Tech to slither in to Mar a Lago,” Loomer posted.
Since then, things have deteriorated rapidly until we are now fully in the midst of a major dumspter fire:
Another volley has been fired in the ongoing MAGA civil war that’s been playing out online between hardcore “America First” acolytes and Trump-backing Silicon Valley oligarchs over an immigrant worker visa program — and now Elon Musk is being accused of personally punishing his critics.
Laura Loomer and other far-right activists who have railed against the X (formerly Twitter) owner and his DOGE co-chair Vivek Ramaswamy for supporting H-1B visas and criticizing American work culture allege that Musk removed their X verification badges and ability to monetize their accounts in an act of retribution.
“[Musk] has removed my blue check mark on X because I dared to question his support for H1B visas, the replacement of American tech workers by Indian immigrants, and I questioned his relationship with China,” Loomer posted on Thursday night.
Loomer also claimed in a X Spaces chat on early Friday morning that the social media platform had temporarily locked her account for 12 hours, claiming it was due to her sharing private information in a tweet.
Apparently dozens of other maga diehards have had their blue check marks (that they pay for) removed and been demonetized by the platform, and this is only going to get better. I’m loving it.
Timill
And TSLA is down 4.5% today…
Baud
That’s what she thought about Melania.
TaMara
Awww, the losers are fighting each other.
Anyway, I’m having chicken tortilla soup for lunch. What’s on everyone else’s menu today?
lollipopguild
Rooting for injuries. It will be interesting how trump deals with this.
Leto
Here’s Apartheid Clyde’s interview that had all the MAGATs riled up, including his responses on Shitter.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
He’s actually right. Now having typed that, I need to go take a long, hot shower.
Baud
@lollipopguild:
Tech Bros before Hoes
Kelly
@TaMara: I had homemade pumpkin pie for breakfast :-)
TaMara
@Timill: I was a KIA yesterday getting my car serviced and looking at the EVs. The sales guy and I were talking about the charging adapters (so you can use the Tesla chargers) and he mentioned they are consistently getting Teslas traded in for the KIA EV6 models.
This was just a random comment as we talked about KIA moving toward the Tesla model charging port now that it was allowed.
schrodingers_cat
Oh goody! I await the stream of invective against Indians on H1-B and international students from our liberal commenters
They are stealing our jobs while also being lazy.
Vivek needs to disappear from the limelight. He is cringe max.
MobiusKlein
I’m a fan of H1-B visas, as I have so many great and talented co-workers who have been able to join the USA over time, and become part of our extended family.
I am also a big fan of our high school students that I also work with in the robotics club – smart, dedicated, and three dimensional tech nerds.
Tech in the USA has been bolstered by both, and would not be so ubiquitous in the world without both streams of folks grinding away at the issues of the day.
ETA: not a response to Mr Cat above, was pure coincidence.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@TaMara:
The Tesla network’s not open to KIA yet but it will be come mid-Jan 25
That being said, don’t let that drive a decision. We in GM EV world now have it (assuming you pay for an adapter) but depending on your driving/charging situation, it’s not close to being needed by most people.
The EV6 is a nice car, one of the board members in our RNO has one. GM is now shipping the $35K trim of the Equinox EV, also a nice vehicle.
schrodingers_cat
@MobiusKlein: H1-B visas are exploitative (not in terms of $$) people on H1-Bs are paid at par but they tie you to the employer and you can’t apply for the GC, your employer has to do that for you.
The allocation by lottery is bogus. And some Indian companies like Infosys has made bank by exploiting Indian techies.
The entire system needs an overhaul.
KatKapCC
@TaMara: Lentil cucumber salad with some pita bread.
John Cole
@lollipopguild: He won’t. He loves it when the people below him get messy with each other.
The Audacity of Krope
Must-watch TV on NBC.
@TaMara: Frozen pizza until I get the enthusiasm up to cook the Alfredo I bought ingredients for yesterday.
Baud
I wonder if other industries that rely on immigrant labor will jump into the fray. There have been whispers that they have been trying to convince Trump to exclude their workers from round ups.
different-church-lady
Consider me not amused.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Also too, a dozen years ago, driftglass called it:
You can’t top ‘Batshit Thunderdome’.
different-church-lady
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Musk is just jealous.
Shalimar
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: They’re both right about how awful the other one is. It’s the one thing everyone in politics can agree on.
schrodingers_cat
@TaMara: Falafel and kebabs with homemade pita.
Scout211
Get out the popcorn. All the right wing big mouths want in on the attention.
trollhattan
“How many divisions does Laura Loomer have” said somebody, probably.
Your intermittent reminder that trying to journalism in Russia, Gyna, etc. and today especially, Iran, is to present yourself to authorities as future human bargaining chip.
The Audacity of Krope
If you try hard enough, you can be amused at anything.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: Between you and Professor Bigfoot I’m starting to wonder if I have been commenting under an evil alternate personality during my “sleeping” hours or something.
MobiusKlein
@schrodingers_cat: As a manager of two folks on various visas, I’m keenly aware of the associated problems. I hired somebody straight out of college on student visa, and have been involved in the paperwork. I’ve had other folks on my team needing various other similar assistance.
And every time one of the folks I work with get their green card or citizenship, I am excited!
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: I used to be amused. Now I try to be disgusted.
different-church-lady
@Scout211: “…at least it’s an ethos.”
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: Professor Bigfoot has been on point. SC is a dedicated misanthrope who seems to hate all groups.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: No you are on the side of angels. Some other valued commenters though, not so much.
azlib
Gosh! What a surprise! The question Trump needs to answer is does he want the love of his cult or Musk’s money. I do not think he can have both.
la caterina
@TaMara: Tacos and Guac. TGI Taco Friday!
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
Man, what I could do with that kind of knack…
The Audacity of Krope
Might be less pleasant from moment to moment, but I can appreciate this is probably far less emotional labor for you.
Trivia Man
@schrodingers_cat: I do not have an hatred for Indians on H1b visas. I have great hatred for oligarchs pretending they cant possibly find anybody else that is qualified to take that job.
I have great hatred for treating H1B visa holders as soave labor. Demanding they accept lower pay, longer hours, and ill treatment in exchange for the honor of making the 3 comma dude 10x richer.
Gravenstone
That’s might fucking rich given that was explicitly the role she was angling for before managing to get herself unpersonned by the campaign.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: So you agree with him. That’s good to know.
FWIW I hate no one, group or individual.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: It was sarcasm.
twbrandt
I’m almost tempted to log into twitter to point and laugh at the clown show. Almost.
Another Scott
It’s Ok. Really. We’ve been assured that AI will solve all the problems. There are trillions to be made there and everyone will be rich and have masses of free time with machines doing all the work.
What’s that you say??
https://mastodon.social/@khobochka/113724300122190730
https://pod.geraspora.de/posts/17342163
MotUs used to use other people’s money. Now they use other people’s computers. Because they can and there’s nothing you can do about it. Plus, we should be grateful because they let us use their stuff for “free”!!
“Daddy, what were you doing during the mid-2020s AI crash??”
[ sigh ]
Best wishes,
Scott.
prostratedragon
From Chickamaugua to this!
schrodingers_cat
@Trivia Man: I am not going to defend H-1B visas which I agree are exploitative but not for the reasons that you state because they are mostly not true. See comment #13 for why I think H1-Bs can be exploitative in the hands of an unscrupulous employer.
Juju
@TaMara: That sounds good.
NotMax
“No, Trelane.”
//
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: Good to know. Audacity stalks me in the comments and makes personal attacks, its not funny.
trollhattan
@prostratedragon:
Significant fraction of the way to becoming a trillionaire, and Elmo still has time for girl-fighting on the internet? How does that even work?
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: Apologies friend — being a compulsive wise-ass means I sometimes put my foot down on sensitive toes, and I certainly can’t keep up with the full Venn diagram of who snarls at whom.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Trivia Man:
Exactly. Anyone trying to conflate legitimate criticism of the craptastic program known as H1B visas and “hating Indians” is deliberately missing the point.
The program as it was implemented by the techbros had two tracks:
1-Contract model with foreign, often associated with India, sweatshop companies for work there–the H1B people get pulled over to work for less and displacing first jobs for college graduates.
2-Said companies here could then do the “Let’s lay off 75% of our workers over 40 and bring in entire graduation classes from Turkey, Romania or pick the easiest country of origin to pull from.”
H1Bs don’t just lower wage rates, they eliminate entry-level jobs that got most IT people started in the US and they cut the lifespan of engineering jobs by 30%.
Look at what M$ did over the years: they built a massive IT campus across the border in Canada because it enabled them to circumvent the H1B numbers even more while still basically having an indentured servitude labor force even easier to get rid of if need be.
The other lie with H1Bs is that they’re supposed to be issued only if there are no qualified American candidates. That’s *never* been enforced.
The techbros wanted H1Bs in part because of the threat of deportation at any time. Bye-bye, no grace period to find another job. GONE. American workers, OTOH, have this horrible habit of calling labor lawyers when you do terrible things to them and tying you up in litigation.
Mr. Mack
Okay but “stage 5 clinger” is so good.
TBone
@Baud: hahahahaha!
different-church-lady
@Baud: C’mon, we all thought that about Melania.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: No worries no offense taken. My nerves are raw. I haven’t slept well since my father’s heart attack.
piratedan
of the opinion that DJT doesn’t give a shit about it and his position is roughly, who will pay me the most to render a decision that benefits them. All of the circus keeps the accountability away from him and serves his narcissism by being the “decider”.
Not a lot I can do about it except that hope that they arm themselves and go to the mattresses.
schrodingers_cat
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Both are true.
H1B is craptastic and exploitative
And it is used by many lefties and liberals to say horrible things about Indians.
The Audacity of Krope
Breach of contract. They paid for something they aren’t getting. Can Xhitter be sued for violating its own terms of service?
TBone
Duncan Black with a link to an entire Rolling Stone article devoted to this latest current distraction
TBone
@piratedan: come sit by me
different-church-lady
All I know is the media is getting exactly what they thought they wanted.
And that’s pretty concerning.
The Audacity of Krope
I mean, do I? I mostly ignore you, whether I agree in any given moment or not. But I’ve been hip to the game you’ve been playing for years. You expect perfect allies while you have nothing but wholly destructive criticism for the rest of the big tent.
You constantly replicate the very behavior you obsessively attribute to white women.
John S.
H1-B visas are just modern indentured servitude. Full stop. Any Fortune 500 company I ever worked for that relied heavily on them literally just used it as a form of cheap labor.
Oh we can’t find employees with the right skills here in the US.
Bullshit. You just don’t want to pay college graduates a decent wage with the knowledge that when they acquire skills and experience, they will leave when you treat them like garbage.
TBone
@different-church-lady: 🎯
different-church-lady
Seen at LGM…
Kristine
@TaMara: Protein drink and coffee. But dinner will be some eggplant-lamb casserole that I excavated from the deep freeze along with roasted honey gold potatoes and broccoli.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: WTF?
coin operated
@piratedan:
QFT…it’s all just one big grift
eemom
This is a fine vintage Cole post, including the title.
And indeed, watching these fuckscum devour each other lifts my spirits like nothing since 11/5.
Suzanne
Here’s Vivek’s tantrum, copy/pasted in full:
Yeah, when I think of the Trump administration, I for sure think of “nerdiness over conformity” and “hard work over laziness”.
LMMFAO.
schrodingers_cat
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
The program needs an overhaul but it is not indentured servitude.
They are neither slave labor or indentured labor.
Scout211
@TBone: That Rolling Stone article is paywalled.
Here is the web archive version. However, it really doesn’t go over anything that our intrepid jackals haven’t covered.
Miss Bianca
@TaMara: I had to watch the clowns fighting video a couple of times over while I ate the last chicken leg I had in the fridge at work. Meanwhile, a giant frozen turkey carcass is simmering slowly on the woodstove at the Mountain Hacienda, because I foolishly volunteered to take it away from Thanksgiving dinner to “make soup with”. Ack! :)
Suzanne
I’m sure Cletus is gonna get right on math tutoring.
ArchTeryx
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Not just the techbros. I watched medical research and bioscience destroyed by the H1B program and by corruption in the NIH by MDs. I was driven out of the career entirely – despite being a molecular virologist in the middle of a viral pandemic – simply because I was American and insisted on actual labor rights.
That they’re not indentured servants is absolute and total bullshit. I watched a sociopathic monster named Kwan Teh Jeang in the NSAID use H1B specifically get foreign victims that could not object to his doing everything but murdering them. I had the misfortune to work in his lab for about 6 months, and that 6 months damaged me for life. He figured the disabled were just as easy to exploit as H1B visa holders. He was dead wrong, but he still drove me out of the career.
Kristine
@Baud:
Which will be granted in exchange for sweet, sweet payoffs.
Miss Bianca
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: None of these people are actually wrong about each other, that’s the hilarious/horrifying thing about watching MAGAt cage matches.
TBone
@Another Scott: I hate this timeline.
Phylllis
@TaMara: Ham sandwich with leftover Christmas ham for lunch; spaghetti for supper later.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: It has happened many times in the past 8 years on this blog. Also check the comments on this post.
TBone
@Scout211: that’s why I didn’t bother finding an unpaywalled version – it’s tripe.
John S.
@schrodingers_cat:
Bullshit. I’ve worked with hundreds of people on H1B visas over the years, and the majority of them (by their own admission) felt like third class workers.
The Audacity of Krope
So…America as preferred by Republicans?
You’re right, on this point, Vivek. Now work on the awful set of assumptions that led you to promote this state of affairs professionally.
Llelldorin
Speaking as a tech worker: I like a lot of the people that we bring in under H1B. I think we should stop pretending, admit we need these people, and bring them in under some sort of “high-importance fields” visa program that would lead to an expedited green card.
Seriously we want these folks to stay, not be forced out the moment the MOTUs need to be performative assholes to nudge their stock up another 5%.
As for the current MAGA food-fight, I think we’re seeing the basic problem with “but he’s our asshole” thinking: Eventually you wind up in Dark Helmet’s position. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mv1s4Xj7bk)
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
That’s some Ur Incel shit right there. Has this dude been in a coma ten years?
ssdd
The face-eating leopards are extremely confused right now, having not anticipated that their dinner might begin to eat its own face.
Llelldorin
@Suzanne: Schmuck needs to read “Death of a Salesman,” stat, if he thinks this all started in the ’90s.
different-church-lady
@Suzanne: I mean, “Goddamn, man, you’re shit-tons richer than the prom queen is now. Be happy, for crissake!”
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Hating H1-Bs does not equal hating the people who have them.
Alce_e _ ardillo
I’m rooting for injuries…..
TBone
@Kristine: tariffs exceptions too also
schrodingers_cat
@Llelldorin:Agreed.
Right now Indian companies like Infosys (big BJP donors BTW) and tech giants benefit from the H1-B as it is currently constituted. It can be more worker friendly both immigrant and US. But good luck with that in the Orange Error II reign.
Scout211
@TBone: 👍
John S.
@schrodingers_cat:
Your mendacity is impressive. There is literally not one single comment on this post that is disparaging of Indians.
The Audacity of Krope
@Llelldorin: Vivek is about my age. He might think the world began in the 90s.
TBone
@Llelldorin: that’s called a genius visa and Melanoma lied to get hers.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318
different-church-lady
@different-church-lady: “There’s a whole fuckin’ TV network devoted to venerating people who were too ugly to be prom king. It’s called CNBC.”
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: It doesn’t have to, but unfortunately it does, that line often get blurred. That’s what made Bernie Sanders famous, he has been against high skilled immigration since he was a Congressman in the 90s.
TBone
@ssdd: bwaahahaha!
TBone
How did Bernie get in here? Weekend can’t come soon enough.
MobiusKlein
@schrodingers_cat:
Sorry to hear about your dad.
Do try avoiding lashing out at bystanders who don’t deserve it.
Miss Bianca
@Suzanne
And I for one sure think, “import a bunch of brainy brown people” for the win!
schrodingers_cat
@ArchTeryx: IDK about biotech. I am talking about tech workers on H1-B.
Ksmiami
@MobiusKlein: except for the exploitation element in Silicon Valley etc of H1Bs … which Musk has fully taken advantage of.
Citizen Alan
@Suzanne: dumb a question, but what the hell does the movie whiplash have to do with anything. If I remember it correctly, that movie was about the conflict between a young and talented, but somewhat immature and inexperienced set drummer and use tyrannical and borderline psychotic jazz band instructor.
John S.
@schrodingers_cat:
Really? Since you made the original claim, perhaps you can provide just one example of a comment that “blurs the line” and disparages Indians.
I’m not gonna hold my breath.
Llelldorin
@TBone: Great, that’s easy, then. We just turn it into the “pretty damn sharp” visa program and let in a lot more people.
The Audacity of Krope
Never saw the movie but will hazard a guess based on your description:
schrodingers_cat
@MobiusKlein: Against who did I lash out? Can you show me. I have been agreeing with those who have been saying that H1-B is problematic but countering them on the specifics.
Or is spirited disagreement only for some people on the blog
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Another on-point diary regarding H1Bs over at Teh Orange:
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2024/12/27/2293976/-The-REAL-Reason-the-Tech-Bros-Want-More-H1Bs
Suzanne
@Citizen Alan: I haven’t seen Whiplash! I was too busy working!
MazeDancer
Seriously hard to believe Vivek would be so tone death as to trash all of American white people as lazy and, basically worthless.
“Do it like Asians do, you unwashed masss”.
You would think a guy who would lie about an Alzheimer drug so he could make a fortune pumping and dumping to the rubes would be more appreciative of American culture.
Baud
I’m pretty sure Trump said he loves the poorly educated.
gene108
@Trivia Man:
H1-b visa holders do not take lower pay. This is a myth. I worked in IT recruiting. H1-b visa holders were almost always more aggressive in demanding more money than U.S. workers.
Young inexperienced H1-b visa holders working for large consulting companies may not make top dollar right off the bat, but that’s not going to be the case for people as they gain work experience and expertise.
Suzanne
@MazeDancer: I am just, like, fucken reveling in the two worst groups of people in the country finally realizing that they hate each other.
God, like, I need a cigarette.
different-church-lady
@Baud: Yeah, most cons are fond of having marks.
TBone
@Llelldorin: sounds like a one weird trick that could work eventually but I too am a dreamer:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_FJNRBU55Q
John S.
@gene108:
The HR department at Fiserv would like to thank you for your whitewashing of their H1-B practices.
Baud
I’m looking forward to right wing Catholics and Protestants going after each other.
The Audacity of Krope
His criticism of lazy people not being worth employing is the pinnacle of Republican American culture. He’s a grifter, this is and/or will be attached to a grift.
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: I miss cooking on a woodstove. I used to cook pork roasts on mine with potatoes, carrots and onions. Mmh, mmh!
That was long ago, and I have a gas stove for now.* A neighbor gave me a pile of venison last week and I just cooked up a tenderloin with some potatos; stove top, because the oven doesn’t work.
* The gas company told my landlord they wanted to charge rent on the two tanks out back because he hadn’t bought any gas for two years, so we decided to give them up when they’re empty. The pressure has dropped noticeably so I’ll have to go all electric before too long. I may join the 21st century and get an air fryer.
Mr. Bemused Senior
[free association]
schrodingers_cat
@MazeDancer: He is either pretty stupid, or pretending to be stupid.
The Audacity of Krope
@Geminid: I love cooking with gas, but never had the pleasure of a wood stove designed for cooking.
Electric stove tops…require patience.
Miss Bianca
@Suzanne: Like I said…that clown fighting video up top just sums up my feelings about the whole MAGAt cage match mentality so perfectly, I may have to put it on auto-repeat for the remainder of the day. (With apologies to Omnes Omnibus for my appalling lack of sensibility and taste.)
Mr. Bemused Senior
[song cue]
National Brotherhood Week
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
The 30 Years War Redux!
And to think, this came up yesterday (Eric Flint books).
Omnes Omnibus
Everyone seems irritable today.
KatKapCC
@Omnes Omnibus: They do not, you jerk!!!
Sorry, just playing along.
The Audacity of Krope
It occurs to me the the various foreign others that right-wingers constantly warn us about are only the right-wingers within that group. That’s why they spent all those years hepped up about Sharia Law. They didn’t want the competition.
TBone
Pope Francis entered a prison via special pope door. It’s Baud’s fault I just remembered that.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-opens-special-holy-door-catholic-jubilee-rome-prison-2024-12-26/
Crap will find non paywall.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-27/pope-opens-holy-door-at-rome-prison/104764866
Scout211
Well, someone said something mean on the internet. Can you blame me?
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not irritable, just blunt.
There’s a not-quite apt common phrase about the link between an individual’s consumption habits and their essence that I want to rework for situations like this.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Absolutely. Right wingers need to rule to protect society from right wingers of other societies.
It’s like how men need to restrict women’s freedoms to protect them from bad men.
Llelldorin
As a child of the ’70s and ’80s, I do find it funny that those were suddenly the Last Good Years. At the time we were all slackers, doomed by our mothers who dared to Get Jobs Outside The Home!!! (Won’t anybody think of the children???)
We can’t be anymore, natch, since statistically we’re a very right-wing generation.
Geminid
@trollhattan: Naah, he’s been wide awake, making millions off a pump-and-dump stock scheme and then gravitating towards the trash magnet that is Donald Trump.
Miss Bianca
@The Audacity of Krope:
@Geminid:
My woodstove isn’t really designed for cooking, but that doesn’t stop me! Just slap a pot of something up top and keep the fire going – or jacket potatoes up in foil and stick ’em into the flames.
Every once in a while I go to the woodstove store in Canon City and moon over the step-top models that are really built for cooking, or even…the wood-fired bread oven, which has the added advantage of being colorfully enameled and therefore a beautiful object in itself.
Oh, well…as the old saying goes, “if I had a
millionbillion dollars…”Eduardo
@schrodingers_cat: I am a software engineer and most of my coworkers in the last 17 years except the last 2 have been Indians. We need as much talent as we can get from South Asia and from everywhere else. In software engineering and all kind of engineering and don’t get me started on health professionals. Oh yes we also need people to work on the fields and construction and everything else. Big country full of opportunities if we don’t do stupid nationalism and fascism.
Hope we don’t become and old, tired nation.
gene108
@schrodingers_cat:
I think the myth that H1-b workers are indentured servants and paid less is something people need to tell themselves, because somehow it makes it okay that foreigners are “taking” good paying jobs, rather than earning those jobs based on merit.
Where the H1-b system and Green Card program breaks down for Indians is the backlog for employer sponsored GC’s. Cases for Indians filed in 2012 are getting their GC’s now.
Josie
@gene108:
What do those people do in the meantime if they can’t get a green card?
brendancalling
The irony of Musk’s argument in favor of HB1 workers—they are better educated than Americans—is this: if Americans ARE more poorly educated, it is the direct result of GOP policies that have weakened public education.
Scout211
Back to Laura Loomer. She was on Steve Bannon’s War Room today. She has slightly changed her tack. She now is claiming all she is doing is trying to protect Trump from harm. Summary at Raw Story.
Triangulate much, Loomer? She’s not attacking Musk, she’s just protecting Trump from those awful tech bros.
Ksmiami
@Suzanne: So Blue states then…I mean we raised our kids to be highly competitive and successful… and believe in science, reason, math etc.
Trivia Man
@The Audacity of Krope: Sure – here is your $15 refund
John S.
@gene108:
A report by the Economic Policy Institute revealed that the majority of H-1B employers pay workers less than market wages. A significant number of these workers earn between 17 and 34 percent less than the local median salaries of U.S. employees in similar positions.
Key findings included:
But yeah, it’s all just a big myth.
Baud
@brendancalling:
The secret is that H1B employees have all read the Bible in school. /Oklahoma
Geminid
@The Audacity of Krope: I used a basic woodstove and put a “chicken fryer” on top. That’s a 7″ deep iron pot with a handle and pyrex lid. It was slow cooking, and a six pound roast would take maybe 3 hours. Sometimes I’d add apple quarters instead of onions.
The Audacity of Krope
If people are being demonetized while technically in compliance with terms of service, I can see damages being a lot higher than that.
Granted, I’m not a lawyer, just a dude seeking justice.
MobiusKlein
@gene108: The H1-B folks I have worked with come from Brazil, Guatemala, Nigeria, India, China, Chile, Spain, England, and no doubt more I’m not remembering. Ah right, Moldova, Ukraine.
Mr. Bemused Senior
[in the voice of Inigo Montoya] “Irony?” I think that word does not mean what you think it means. /s
[More serious] It’s not ironic. It’s the GOP deliberate policy.
Leto
@Omnes Omnibus: not enough figgy pudding, imo.
Omnes Omnibus
@John S.: Have you considered posting a link?
tobie
If AI ends up inadvertently destroying Xitter and Facebook, the world will be so happy!
The Audacity of Krope
@Geminid: See? Now you have me considering what sorts of cooking vessel will fit on the narrow wood stove installed in my parents’ former fireplace.
This feels dangerous.
Baud
@tobie:
Why do you assume it would be inadvertent?
Mr. Bemused Senior
Or perhaps too much figgy pudding.
schrodingers_cat
@Josie: They take jobs in other countries. Or they continue in the job once their intent to immigrate is approved. They have to wait in line until their number in the quota becomes available. There are per country quotas for most GC categories.
The Audacity of Krope
Because AI doesn’t have higher reasoning functionality.
ETA: Wait, are Republican politicians AI?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mr. Bemused Senior: My family does a vanilla custard trifle.
Trivia Man
@Citizen Alan: In the movie they call out “pretty good” as a most disgusting insult. You are either perfection, no matter the damage to you and all bystanders, or you are worthless.
Raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Not me, Navy beat the Sooners!
scav
Which, as we have sadly discovered, means it is distressingly close to passing the Turing test.
Suzanne
@brendancalling:
THIS.
Like, if you are concerned about a shortage of Americans with the skills you need… pay for them to get the skills! We are facing a shortage of tons of skilled roles in the upcoming years. You want more American doctors? More American architects or nurses or engineers? I guarantee that there’s a lot of Americans who want to go to school for that but cannot afford it. And that’s thanks to the GOP and IGMFY.
I will also note that American public universities are (but not adequately) funded by the taxpayers of those states. Thus, their first responsibility is educating the population of those states. Until I see the GOP call for increasing funding toward those state universities, I’ll continue to think they’re full of shit.
Trivia Man
@gene108: I stand corrected. Are they at par with take hone, after the agency takes a cut? I font understand why a company would bother if the choice is native born $ salary OR H1B $ salary + $ agency fee.
Leto
@Raven: we just finished watching that; pretty good game! Good job, swabbies!
@Omnes Omnibus: that sounds pretty good. I made a northern Italian fruit cake that everyone has really enjoyed.
tobie
@Baud: I can’t imagine that the owners of social media will aim to kill their platforms but AI might do it on its own. Given AI’s startling development, it could perhaps in a few years act in shame and perform virtual seppuku for all the damage it’s caused to organic life. That would be something. No doubt there’s some good science fiction out there about machines killing themselves.
Omnes Omnibus
@Leto: The leftover pate from the afternoon snack portion of the festivities came home with me. I think I am going to get a baguette from the French bakery and have pate sandwiches sometime soon.
The Audacity of Krope
You’re going to put someone’s scalp on bread?
Chris
I don’t like Loomer’s chances.
In fascism, when the time comes for a showdown between the ideologically pure populist brownshirt slime and the nice respectable johnny-come-latelys with all the greenbacks, it doesn’t usually go well for the brownshirts.
John S.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Here you go.
ETA: Perhaps you could also ask gene108 for some evidence of his claim that H1b workers getting paid less is a “myth”.
Suzanne
@Trivia Man: I will note that I have hired multiple new grads with H1-B visas, as well as international student interns. In my experience, the H1-B visa salary is comparable to their peers, and we have to provide documentation to the government demonstrating as such. There’s also the fee. So, in total, it cost more to hire a person on a H1-B visa.
Where it unequivocally sucks, though, is if there’s layoffs. The last place I worked laid off most of the H1-B people in a big round of layoffs, because they cost more than Americans. A woman that I hired at another office got laid off some time ago because they closed her office, and she had to scramble. I was able to hook her up with a recruiter who helped her land something new, but 60 days is not very long in my profession.
I will note, though…. I’m an architect, and we often say that there’s no child prodigies in architecture. It’s not like coding. Everybody grinds grinds grinds in school and in their early careers. Despite Vivek saying that Americans need to go to physics camp and shit to become more like Asians….. there is genuinely no difference in the quality of work between nationalities that I have seen.
The Audacity of Krope
So here’s the plan, hamper the money fascists enough that they get destroyed in the process of reigning in the zealots.
The zealots are nothing without them.
John S.
@Trivia Man:
Don’t stand corrected. He’s wrong.
KatKapCC
@Omnes Omnibus: Scrolling past, I thought that said mustard and I was going to call the cops on you.
Another Scott
@John S.: +1
Others have noticed that they love the mantra of the “Free Market” except when it comes to the workings of Supply and Demand in the labo[u]r market.
“… No! Not like that!!1”
Grr…
Best wishes,
Scott.
Miki
@Leto: Zelton?
ETA https://www.pastagrammar.com/post/northern-italian-christmas-fruitcake-recipe-how-to-make-zelten
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Extremely ritable here.
;)
Anyway
One of the reasons industry likes H1-B (contractors) is that they do not have to pay certain overhead (insurance etc) that they have to pay their FTE (full-time employees) those costs are borne by the contracting company. This is similar to restaurants or retail sector having part-time employees instead of full-time. Another “flexibility” is H1Bs (working for contractors) can be let go more easily than FTs without need for severance, COBRA etc.
Edited.
gene108
@Josie:
Companies will hire H1-b workers, if someone wants to change jobs. It just won’t be as easy for them. Qualified people will have opportunities.
USCIS has tried some work around of the backlog by issuing work permits after being in the country on an H1-b for a period of time, for example, but it’s been a few years since I dealt with this and am not sure on the current state of things.
The Audacity of Krope
So does that mean you are a sanctified, interfaith vessel of god who is down for whatever?
NotMax
@The Audacity of Krope
That would be telling.
:)
MagdaInBlack
@Suzanne: Oh! Me too, sister. =-)
catclub
cronyism, not policy. what a surprise.
The Audacity of Krope
@NotMax: Vestals always tell me I perform the best rites.
John S.
@Another Scott:
And contrary to others insisting that pay disparity is a myth for H1b workers, I posted a link above to an EPI study that shows otherwise. If you’re interested. 😊
Steve LaBonne
@catclub: 100% standard with authoritian regimes. Corruption is in their DNA.
Almost Retired
@Baud: Exactly. There are still some scores left over from the Thirty Years War that need to be settled.
ETA Comrade Scott beat me to it!
matt
Unfortunately for Musk, Loomer is about 5x as effective as him at handling media.
The Audacity of Krope
Unfortunately for Loomer, Musk doesn’t need to handle media, just buy it.
Baud
@John S.: You didn’t post a link to the report. It is here.
H-1B visas and prevailing wage levels: A majority of H-1B employers—including major U.S. tech firms—use the program to pay migrant workers well below market wages | Economic Policy Institut
ETA: For completeness, here’s a rebuttal by Cato Institute.
100% of H-1B Employers Offer Average Market Wages—78% Offer More | Cato at Liberty Blog
Trivia Man
@The Audacity of Krope: “Never argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel.”
-anonymous
Geminid
@tobie: I remember a sci-fi short story where robots had taken over Earth. They were fairly simple minded though and couldn’t produce new metal, just salvage old. Because the robots would grab every scrap of metal to produce more robots, humans had to adapt by going to all-wood technology.
In the last scene, a couple men watch a rickety robot fall over; as it lies helpless on the ground other robots come and scavenge it for parts.
UncleEbeneezer
@Trivia Man: I’m a jazz drummer and I never had any desire to see that movie. Because I knew that probably 50% of the audience would be rooting for the psychotic instructor and FAPing over fantasies of the good old days when we could be abusive to students and other “tough love” bullshit. Also the very notion that there even is something like technical perfection in art/music is silly and toxic and I have no interest in watching that for 90 minutes even if the point of the film is to show exactly that.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@Geminid: get a pressure cooker and an air fryer.
UncleEbeneezer
@KatKapCC: You’re not supposed to give away the joke, damnit! ;)
The Audacity of Krope
As is typical, those who need this lesson the most will ignore the social criticism and subtle themes of the movie and revel in the particular depravity depicted as aspirational.
In other words, American History X.
John S.
@Baud:
I did in response to Omnes. But thanks for reposting it more obviously!
ETA: LOL, I’ll take EPI over Cato without hesitation.
Bupalos
@TaMara: Well be forewarned that Musk is playing games with the Tesla charging network that was supposed to be opened up to the public…something Musk had to commit to in order for the tesla connectors to be adopted as standard. It’s very hit and miss whether any given charger will be open and work for other brands, and it’s pretty clear Tesla is just mostly just lying about there needing to be upgrades for other cars to work.
No way should other manufacturers have agreed to this, no way should Musk be in control of charger infrastructure they’re relying on.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Mr. Bemused Senior:
I won’t leave until I get some, so bring it right here!
Matt McIrvin
@MobiusKlein: They should all have green cards, not H1-Bs. Even thinking in selfish nationalistic terms, the people who are let in on work visas this way are exactly the kind of people you want to become permanent parts of your economy.
As to why employers prefer them to American workers, it’s mostly that they cost less and are highly motivated by their situation to not piss you off. But this is a huge amount of educated brainpower coming into the country.
Renie
@The Audacity of Krope:
@schrodingers_cat:
Yes spirited disagreement is only for those posters who hate white people, and go after people who call them out on it. To them everything is white fragility if you don’t agree with them.
It’s a shame this great blog John has created even allows posters to constantly post negative comments about any groups of people. I never see them post anything constructive to address their gripes against other people. It’s constant negativity and it’s flat out trolling.
John S.
It fascinates me when commenters post demonstrably false information, get called out for it and then just pretend that it never happened and then other commenters just go merrily along with the false information as if it were an article of faith.
For all the whining about the echo chamber on the right, that shit sure happens plenty here too. Must be human nature.
Renie
@Baud: Ever read about Ireland?
Another Scott
@John S.: Thanks for the link. I’ll have to look at it later.
I’m in a tech field. I understand that recruiting is often difficult, especially in my [redacted] field.
HOWEVER, as others have noted, the long-term solution isn’t for employers to demand that special slots be reserved for immigrants who are tied to particular employers. The solution is to return to the boring old techniques of the past – adequately funding public education for everyone – no matter their zip code; adequately funding post-secondary education so that students aren’t loaded down with all kinds of debt for decades and so that graduates can go into teaching and make a living; incentivizing R&D (including basic R&D) that big companies used to do (GM, GE, IBM, AT&T, 3M, etc., etc.) so that graduates would be able to make a living applying their STEM education to things other than figuring out how to make in-the-black financial trades 2.3 msec faster than anyone else.
But all that would require higher taxes on the MotUs and probably changes to the investment and patent and trademark and financial systems and OMG! that’s IMPOSSIBLE!!1 Grr…
I have little doubt that many H1Bs are highly motivated, have a strong work ethic, demand prevailing or better wages. But even with all that, they are a bandaid for the problem and a special carveout for companies that know how to work the system. Amazon is at least making noises about training and some funding education of the workers they need. I can’t see that Melon’s and other MotUs’ properties are doing that – it’s crying to the government that they need help, help!!
Grr…
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Chris Johnson
Oh my God. He told them to be woke.
There is not enough popcorn in all the world… o_O
Baud
@Renie: The land of ire?
Mr. Bemused Senior
[ 🎶 😁 ]
Sorry, it’s all gone. My daughter baked one and it was good in small servings.
Trivia Man
@UncleEbeneezer: Side digression on jazz. My son went to Berklee and brought home the fake book. I like to sit at the piano and noodle through the unexpected chord changes. Ive tried a few times to find someone to jam with – any instrument at all or even a vocalist. I suspect I am unsuccessful because anybody good enough to do tgat would be frustrated and annoyed by my rudimentary skill. Enthusiasm only goes so far. But I entertain myself.
Leto
@Miki: yes!
https://youtu.be/Wx7-d7gLYC4?si=kn9Uwl3FFL0rmp9w
Edit: oh, do you watch Eva and Harper as well? Going to cheer if you do, and also ask if you’ve ordered your Nduja swag :)
The Audacity of Krope
@Renie: I, like the majority on the masthead of this blog, am white. Pasty, doesn’t see the sun white. I’m so white I’m pink.
I wish the small handful of fellow white folk here bitterly clinging to their skin color would recognize that racial tension, especially at this point in time, is less (but still some) about literal skin color than cultural attachments. For their own sake and for interdependent society’s sake.
When I think of what makes me myself, all the little pieces, “white” barely registers. If “white” is so core to how you see yourself, might be worth asking yourself why.
ETA: Identity is important in politics. Whom do you identify with? I identify with workers, social justice activists, environmentalists, families built on separate waves covering generations of immigration.
None reference whiteness, yet all manage to speak to my personal history, family heritage, and national heritage.
Trivia Man
@Another Scott: Absolutely – “if you think education is expensive, try ignorance.”
Wait – we are doing that now.
John S.
@Another Scott:
I work in fintech, so whatever tech field you’re in probably doesn’t look all that different when it comes to H1b practices.
I have worked with many fine people who came in on H1b visas, and far too many of them were done dirty by our employers. They deserve far better.
Trivia Man
@Chris Johnson: Hmm. HOW did we beat Sputnik? FULLY and aggressively funding PUBLIC education for ALL.
Another Scott
@John S.: Some tech fields cannot employ non-US citizens.
Best wishes,
Scott.
KatKapCC
@Renie:
Wow.
Steve LaBonne
@John S.: Indentured servitude is one of the very oldest American institutions, and employers have always loved it.
John S.
@Another Scott:
Say no more! Such is definitely not the case in fintech.
karen marie
@TBone: Not only “should she have made the cut” but how did she make the cut. Who would she have known that could have pulled strings for her?
John S.
@Steve LaBonne:
The love affair with indentured servitude predates this country by a few thousand years. But we have certainly put our own special stamp of approval on it. Maybe even perfected it for the modern era if you will.
karen marie
@Ksmiami: What visa does Trump use to import workers for his golf motels? He imports people to work as kitchen and grounds staff because is he’s too cheap to pay Americans a living wage and if they complain, they’re gone.
Renie
@KatKapCC:
Go read the Friday Morning Open Thread for the latest.
The Audacity of Krope
@Renie: 🎶🎶My
bolognawhite fragility has a first name. It’s R-E-N-I-E…🎶🎶ETA: Maybe bologna is the right word? I don’t know. Both have merit.
TBone
@karen marie: hmmmm
Source sucks but… I’ma give it
https://www.newsweek.com/melania-trump-genius-visa-einstein-826431
Renie
@The Audacity of Krope:
Hey you forgot to ask me to see if I’m a white supremacist cuz my views are different from yours. You’re slipping.
Maybe you should ask yourself why you constantly post the same comments about your feelings about what constitutes being a “white person” and why it is so important to you to do this several times a week? At this point I’m sure everyone has seen it dozens of times so what’s the point? It’s just trolling.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: Don’t fucking judge me. It’s good bread.
NotMax
@karen marie
“They come to me with tears in their eyes and say, “Sir, you’re paying me much too much.”
//
Renie
@The Audacity of Krope:
It appears you are also immature if all you can do is try to insult people. That seems to be the standard response you do whenever someone disagrees with you.
The Audacity of Krope
At least you’re not a complete monster.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
Rebuttal by the Cato Inst is no rebuttal. It’s simply an affirmation of standard glibertarian talking points that support the techbro usage of H1B visas.
The Audacity of Krope
@Renie: I speak constructively with people who have a demonstrated capacity for constructive disagreement. That’s not you.
So I point and laugh.
ETA: Upon reviewing your comments, this is the closest I’ve seen to a salient point. So I’ll do you the dignity of a real response:
It’s not constant. I post on a diverse range of topics here, though generally sticking more to the social/political end of things. I have a set of beliefs in each topic. Some will repeat, sometimes the same way, sometimes the wording or focus may be different based on the conversation.
You, however, only seem to…show up for the racial conversations and determinedly avoid any of the nuances.
I’m all for peddling grievance, it’s cathartic. But if you’re going to be doing that, you need to be okay with the fact that people will have opinions of their own.
And, despite how you portray things, you’re literally the only person on this thread demanding any opinions get silenced.
Chris Johnson
@Trivia Man: What’s screaming bonkers about this is they’re talking about JAZZ for fuck’s sake!
Adam Neely did a great review of the movie. He’s a New York jazz bassist who tours with his very imaginative fusion band and gigs a lot.
Whiplash is about a bunch of people who HATE jazz but are so tough and manly that they force themselves to play it harder than anyone else, anyway.
So, complete fucking insanity. It’s a sports movie.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@John S.:
And that’s not just limited to this particular subject.
Renie
@Baud:
Yes and if you ever go there go to Belfast and take one of the Black Cab tours of prominent areas of the Troubles. When my husband and I did, it was so obvious the driver was trying to determine if we were Catholic or Protestant. When he found out which one, he told stories towards that religion’s view.
Urza
Late to this party but this is how I knew things will get better after the initial election depression. They all hate each other because they are hateful people and are easy to hate. And they’re stupid. Human stupidity got us into this mess, and human stupidity will get us out.
Renie
@The Audacity of Krope:
  I see it’s true what I’ve been told about you. If someone doesn’t agree with you, you just keep digging and digging then insult them. You will never get people to see your point of view with those tactics. But trolls don’t care about doing that, they just want to stir up trouble.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
It came up in my search. People can assess for themselves. I don’t endorse either report.
Doug R
@Timill:
Considering Tesla’s puzzling high stock price vs actual cars manufactured/sold, it’s surprising it hasn’t cratered harder and sooner.
Baud
@Urza:
Baud! 20XX!
Chris Johnson
@Trivia Man: We didn’t. Sputnik absolutely was first, and boy, did everybody freak out. For that matter, Yuri Gagarin. Russia used to be a coalition of a bunch of different socialist republics and able to do things besides punch Ukraine and fall over and continue to punch Ukraine.
Miki
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: Seconded. I’ve had my plain Jane Instant Pot for 10 years (after several years of using a stove top PC). Got a cheap, smaller air fryer (a Dash) a couple of years ago. I use each of them at least once a week. (My IP Turkey Carcass Broth from Thanksgiving was pure gelatinous awesomeness.)
My range/oven is a 30+ yr old gas Magic Chef that still works great (except the broiler, which has always been a piece of shit), but requires some replacement parts every so often. At some point those parts aren’t going to be available anymore and/or my appliance repair guy is going to retire. Especially in the summer, the IP and air fryer are convenient, cooler replacements for range/oven.
Since my old IP is starting to show its age, my Xmas present to myself this year was another 6 qt but this one also comes with an air fryer lid (Duo Crisp), on sale. Looking forward to pressure cooking then air frying in the same pot. Or just air frying. Or broiling.
trollhattan
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Assume, w/o touching it on account of Cato, “something-something, if only American kids would learn coding and electrical engineering, instead of feminist studies and performing arts…”
TBone
We shouldn’t be trying to live up to the title of this post. Just saying.
I’m voting for Baud!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Peke Daddy
@different-church-lady: Built into the GOP now.
Trivia Man
@Chris Johnson: Great analogy. WHO WON??? We can’t have a contest without a winner! Where’s the drama??? MUSIC HARDER, DAMMIT!!
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: pwned!
sab
@different-church-lady: The infighting amongst underlings is a hallmark of narcississtics in management. That infighting becomes the corporate culture.
zhena gogolia
@Urza: That’s an optimistic take, anyway.
Bill Arnold
@The Audacity of Krope:
“Don’t try, do”
Trivia Man
@Chris Johnson: Side note: Jerry Garcia was a wicked banjo player. I saw an interview where he said he stopped because it was too rigid and required discipline.
The Audacity of Krope
I’m not a big believer in separating the acts of making an attempt and accomplishing a goal. The latter may be described as making a successful attempt, after all.
I blame Yoda for this state of affairs.
Kayla Rudbek
@The Audacity of Krope: yes, they can slap different labels on it, but the right wing is all in on fundamentalist patriarchy no matter what religion they claim to follow.
TBone
Hahaha who takes the late night phone calls from Donold? Eewww
I’m posting because the writeup is great, not the subject matter.
Remember how involved Hannity is with *waves hand at entire incoming administration
coin operated
@John S.: Just wanted to say that my 25-year IT career has been consulting for, or directly employed by, fintech firms and everything you’ve said about H1-B workers rings true.
And yes…indentured servitude is a very apt description of the program.
Slightly edited
Omnes Omnibus
@Almost Retired: I have some feelings about the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre that need to be worked out.
KatKapCC
@Renie: I do not need to read any thread to know that no POC on this blog “hates white people”. Nor do I need to read it to realize that you are probably the reason why someone might.
trollhattan
@Chris Johnson: Yeah, they had Sputnik 1, then poor Laika the orbiting dog, then Yuri Gagarin, all practically before we could lace our space sneakers. ‘Murkin inertia carried the day all the way past them to the moon, and the race was over.
It did not help the Soviets that their giant fucking N1 moon rocket kept blowing the hell up and in the middle of that fiasco, Korolev died. I’m…amused? by Space X’s Starship and its enormous cluster of little first stage engines, the scheme used for N1.
Miki
@Leto: I think you told me about them – thank you for that! Eva is such a graceful, beautiful cook.
As a matter of fact, I have a package of ‘Nduja waiting for me to use in some kind of sauce in the very near future. It’s fabulous.
Balloon Juice Meet up in Dasa?
Kayla Rudbek
@Suzanne: and there’s also a lot of racism, sexism, and ageism holding people back from getting that education and experience.
The Audacity of Krope
@KatKapCC: In-thread reviews from several longtime commenters have been mostly positive for that thread.
Honestly, I agree that thread is worth the time to read, for just the opposite reason Renie describes. The empathy and nuance, with a few exceptions, were flowing like a nice calm river.
sab
Oldest granddaughter is in town with her boyfriend, and since we now have a guest room they are staying with us, even though we have no heat. We are all so excited. At age 70 I finally feel like a grown up.
trollhattan
@Trivia Man:
For folks not familiar, Old & In the Way is the delightful bluegrass combo of Garcia, David Grisman, Peter Rowan, Vassar Clements, John Kahn, Richard Greene and John Hartford.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_%26_In_the_Way
Garcia plays banjo and vocals.
Leto
@Miki: we were there two years ago, and plan to go back soon. We’re still in the promo pictures and videos. We would absolutely do a BJ meetup in Dasa!
Eva is definitely a wonderful cook. I haven’t ordered any nduja from the place they recently recommended as I still had some of Papa Turri’s homemade batch. I love that stuff!
KatKapCC
@The Audacity of Krope: It’s 364 comments. I’m not interested in wading through all of that if it includes a bunch of people sniping at each other, which it seems to based on the last few in the thread.
Omnes Omnibus
@KatKapCC: Many people here probably hate me. Some of them might be POCs. I am white. So it would seem as though some POC on this blog hate white people. You really can’t refute my logic. I avoided using any. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
The Audacity of Krope
@KatKapCC: No pressure, of course. Just my assessment. Of course, it’s hard to come by a political thread with absolutely zero sniping. It might violate a fundamental law of physics.
Steve LaBonne
@Omnes Omnibus: I hate orange people.
Omnes Omnibus
@KatKapCC: Chicken.
eemom
@KatKapCC:
It just got worse in that a FPer waded in to censor Professor Bigfoot.
Who FWIW (nothing) I completely agree with in everything he’s said about white supremacy/privilege, including that on this blog.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope: Maybe either say it to her face in a reply directly to her, or don’t say it at all?
Saying it to another commenter on a thread that she’s participating in – in my opinion that’s just a cheap shot
I have been away for a couple of days, but I think this isn’t high school.
John S.
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
@coin operated:
Exactly. But hey, a couple of commenters here insist that there is no pay disparity for H1b visa workers, so it must be true.
At least Cato pretends to provide some evidence for their claims.
Harrison Wesley
@TBone: I’m not surprised that only five got green cards. Slovenia has about the same population as Philly (but a lot more Michelin starred restaurants).
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: I hate more than one white individual != I hate white people
White culture has produced many vast atrocities != I hate white people
I reject the notion of whiteness as a cultural artifact != I hate white people
For anyone requiring clarification, so probably not actually the person I’m directly responding to here…👀
sab
@Omnes Omnibus: That made me laugh: “you can’t refute my logic because I didn’t use any”.
tobie
@Geminid: That’s a much more positive story than Geoffrey Hinton’s prediction today that there’s a 10-20% chance that AI will render humans extinct within 20 years. Let AI wear its cables out and be unable to produce new ones!
KatKapCC
@Omnes Omnibus: Joke is on you, buddy, I haven’t smoked anything in over a decade.
schrodingers_cat
One last word on temp status long term visas, I speak from lived experience not some daily Kos article or a friend called Raj.
I know this issue well.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Uh oh, NOW you’ve done it.
UncleEbeneezer
@Trivia Man: You’d be surprised. Keep at it. I play at a pretty high level but I’ve played at jams with some people who were much more beginner level and usually a good (nice) group of players will have decent patience and even encourage the people who are only just getting started. Keep looking and eventually I think you might find someone (or several) to play with. Also, if you like the Real/Fake Book, for an online version, check out JazzStudies.us. It has just about every jazz standard imaginable and you can even pick your key. I sometimes just pick tunes at random and play through the changes (I also play guitar) even if I don’t know the song. After awhile you realize that even jazz comes down to only a couple handfuls of chord combinations/patterns. Things like how dim-7 chords are almost always followed by a 7b9 chord. You see examples in Blue Bossa, Black Orpheus, and countless other (especially Latin-y) songs.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: Then give me a reason that all these people hate me. Even the self-hating white ones.
artem1s
@Baud:
any word on how many $$$$$ it will take to ‘convince’ him?
different-church-lady
@KatKapCC: There was a bit of “lashing out.”
I find it understandable.
The Audacity of Krope
And as far as doing it by responding to another commenter, I was differentiating between two people she, herself, was criticizing. DCL, Prof. B, and I were all heavily engaged in the conversation DCL was referencing two threads back. So please don’t tell me whom I can talk to or for what reason.
For reference, I manage to have constructive disagreements with people here all the time. I disagree with DCL plenty and I can’t point to a single time it’s ever devolved to a fight. Same has been true for OO if you institute a 7 year statute of limitations.
This is a political blog. People need to be open to criticism. And people taking time and care with their criticism have every right to point out those who aren’t.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
(wheww…) Thank goodness I’m only one.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: I had a guy named Raj in my college fraternity. Fucker stole my Jansport backpack.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
Point of order: we a simultaneously at war and not at war with Schrodinger’s Cat.
Librarian
I just saw that Steve Bannon is joining in and attacking Musk. It’s the battle of the twits.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat:
Pff, like that still counts for anything…
(sarcasm again…)
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: My friend Raj was my bestie. She lives in NZ now. I lost touch with her when she moved there.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: If you wanna go wild, Chef John’s banh-mi recipe is a really great use for baguette + pate. All you’d need is a pork loin, some carrots/daikon, cucumbers, cilantro and jalapeños. Oh, and mayo, sriracha and hoisin for the sauce. The pork loin is delicious and as a whole, this recipe makes a banh mi that is pretty comparable to what we had in Vietnam.
WaterGirl
@eemom: censor?
His comment is still there.
I weighed in with my opinion.
He basically shut down a black female commenter who disagreed with him, and then he explicitly used race as part of the name-calling when he was calling someone else stupid. That’s over the line, and i said so.
That’s not censorship.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Raj isn’t a gendered name? I learned something new.
Trivia Man
Minor data point on the current MAGA vs MAGA violence. The most popular conservative subreddit has exactly zero discussion right now in the top 100 most popular conversations today.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: It doesn’t not on BJ when I was educated on how calling a person of Indian American heritage a coconut was not a slur.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, in South Korea… Yonhap:
The ROK parliament isn’t messing around. While our systems are different, I’m sure Democrats in Congress are taking notes.
Best wishes,
Scott.
frosty
@different-church-lady: Nice twist on Elvis (Costello of course).
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Can be short for Rajesh or Rajeshree, usually a guy but not always. Like Sam.
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer: You lost me at mayo. I am white, but I am not a Mayo-American.
Trivia Man
@trollhattan: And if you like that, the video Grateful Dawg is delightful. (Raven can use it as pre game hype music!)
Baud
@Trivia Man:
Moderator censorship?
Harrison Wesley
@Librarian: Nazi wino versus skipping dipshit. Fifteen minutes, three falls, in the steel cage.
Chris Johnson
@schrodingers_cat: Yeah, you weren’t into Harris reappropriating that one.
If you’d been pushing for the lotus symbol on top of that, I’d have been certain you were a troll, because you would’ve known what that symbol really meant.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: I once knew someone named Raj, I won’t identify the nature of the relationship for confidentiality reasons. He tried to get me involved with international drug smuggling.
I avoid him now, slightly too criminal for my tastes. Only slightly.
Trivia Man
@UncleEbeneezer: thanks for the tip, ill check it out.
different-church-lady
@Librarian: On the one hand, veteran MAGA seems to be deciding that aligning behind the xenophobia is more important than supporting the guys who bought the election for Trump.
On the other hand, the dirty tech furriners have a hell of a lot more money than they do.
KatKapCC
@eemom: I didn’t see censorship. She only replied to him to say she thought his comment was over the line when he used name-calling.
And I agree with many of his points, but the idea that a large portion of white liberals would happily bring back Jim Crow seems…over the top.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: Probably the same Raj. There are very few Indians.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: I once knew someone named Raj. He seemed like a nice guy. I’m shocked to hear he got you into drug smuggling.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
I stand by what I said. You were talking behind her back in front of her face, as they say.
In my opinion that’s a cheap shot, and it’s behavior I would expect from a mean girl in high school.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Considering the way this thread is going, can you blame them?
Gin & Tonic
I suppose, if Leon thought that American workers were not sufficiently educated, he could devote some of his vast wealth to funding an institution that would educate them to his satisfaction. I understand that, e.g Carnegie-Mellon, Vanderbilt and Rockefeller Universities all do an adequate job.
The Audacity of Krope
Law degree. Next question.
Of course. But once observed we will either be at war with East Asia or I, alone, will be at war with Schrodinger’s Cat. And this will have always been the case.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
Oh dear, it appears I need to catch up on something…
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris Johnson: s_c has been making friends and ruffling feathers here since long before you were Applejinx.
Ramona
@ArchTeryx: Is this the person https://irp.nih.gov/catalyst/21/2/obituaries-kuan-teh-jeang
If so, I relish this chance to read his obituary even though they are eulogizing the treacly shit out of him.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: Advantage: Krope.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: You mix it with sriracha and hoisin so it’s really just the base of the sauce. I’m not a big mayo person either, but the sauce is really killer.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: No, that’s why people hate Steve in the WTF. We are different people, you know.
schrodingers_cat
@Chris Johnson: Nope never the lotus. The association with the BJP has sullied it forever.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: I LIKED THAT BACKPACK!
RevRick
@Baud: You mean like agriculture… or meat packing… or home building… not to mention the landscapers at Gaudyville?
Trivia Man
@Baud: must be. I am pretty sure many of them have a strong opinion on one or the other side. Or maybe it is down to 100% bots and they haven’t decided which side is better yet.
DemsRepublicans in disarray!!Miss Bianca
@different-church-lady: Considering the way this thread is going, I’m starting to think, “Clown Fight at the Dipshit Corral” is a title applicable in more ways than one…
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: How is your dad doing? Is your mother in law still there?
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: When I said earlier that I *mostly* avoid categorical statements, I wasn’t just being cute. I was carving out an exception for lawyers. All categorical statements about lawyers are true.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl:
@The Audacity of Krope:
Yeah, okay, inadvertently this misunderstanding is my fault: I brought something forward from the earlier thread and tied it to this one. It was in jest though.
There’s been a lot of frustrated exaggeration today, with some solid nugget of truth in the middle. Lots of wounds from the summer still oozing. The bitter taste of July stupid is still lingering in the mouth. I suggest none of us get re-entrenched about it.
Miki
@Leto: OMG, OMG, OMG! I am officially a Leto Fan Gurl now.
I keep telling my sister she and her DH should book a Dasa trip while they still can (that ship has sailed for me). There’s Road Scholar, and then there’s Eva & Harper in Dasa. ;-)
KatKapCC
@Omnes Omnibus: This one?
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: What if we just don’t observe you?
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: That might have been s_c’s friend Raj.
different-church-lady
@KatKapCC: Thanks for tonight’s nightmare.
Professor Bigfoot
@Renie: So, you believe your whiteness is being attacked and therefore YOU are being attacked, is that a fair distillation?
The Audacity of Krope
She has been directly informed of my opinion of her many times over the years. She appears to have a functioning mind and a sense of honesty, that’s why she’s not in the pie filter. So I expect she remembers.
Once I’ve said something to someone’s face, repeating it behind their back is fair game. They know. She knows.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: Wait, there’s two people named Raj? What are the odds!
The Audacity of Krope
I wish it were that simple…
WaterGirl
@different-church-lady:
Shitty threads are bad enough, and I hate it when people bring crap from one thread to another.
it’s best if what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
Melancholy Jaques
@Chris Johnson:
For sure. It’s the cruel coach trope applied to a jazz band. Cf. The Bear, season three.
Omnes Omnibus
@KatKapCC: That’s not a Jansport. Do try to keep up.
different-church-lady
@WaterGirl: In my defense, it did have a kind of thematic similarity. I wasn’t just dragging a bag of poo from one thread to the next for kicks.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Couldn’t be, she referred to a guy.
Omnes Omnibus
@Professor Bigfoot: Dude, we veered into the absurd and ridiculous a while ago. We aren’t going back.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: THERE’S THREE PEOPLE NAMED RAJ?!?
Another Scott
@Omnes Omnibus: But did it make you happy??
Best wishes,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
2013, as I recall.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
You may be forgetting that this back-and-forth you mention isn’t private thing between the two of you; the rest of us are subjected to it.
By your own admission, you’re playing some game with your own made-up rules.
I think it makes you look like a mean girl, and I would have thought that would be beneath you.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: We beat logic to death in an alley about half an hour ago.
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: Seems like there’s people here who bring shit from one decade to another.
different-church-lady
@Gin & Tonic: In 2036 I’m going to remember you said that.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: I’d also argue that other thread wasn’t so shitty.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope: Well, we can always go back and fix that.
Gin & Tonic
@different-church-lady:
As long as you don’t remember it in ALL CAPS!
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: To be fair, everyone probably does it once in a while.
Ramona
@The Audacity of Krope: Good plan!
My pet nit: REINING in the zealots…;-}
Steve LaBonne
@Gin & Tonic: Those guys were utter bastards, and yet they were still a million times better than our rich assholes today (MacKenzie Scott being an honorable exception).
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Only half an hour ago?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Ramona:
His obit I’m sure was laudatory.
For example, this asshole:
https://www.staufferfuneralhome.com/obituaries/joel-bloom
No mention of what he became known for. He should have been fired from Club Fed around 1988. He was a GS-15 manager at the Naval Intelligence Support Center (my boss’s boss) and suddenly one day, he had been “disappeared”.
That’s what happens when mid-level gubmint managers misbehave but don’t break any laws, it’s very Soviet except no death in a Siberian gulag.
What was his misbehavior? We had secretaries back then. He’d bring them in, close the office door, pull out porn, show them stuff and then ask how they felt about it.
It had been going on for years apparently, the 3 longer-serving women never said boo. New woman came onboard and that bastard did that once and she complained. More importantly, she got the other 3 to complain.
Not that the rank-and-file people were ever told this. The one who started it all eventually told me.
Even before that, rank-and-file detested the man. He was grossly overweight so his nickname was Jabba the Bloom.
The shitbag lost his TS/SCI clearance, lost two grades, and quietly transferred to some other branch in the Navy. I don’t know what he did afterwards but clearly it didn’t hurt him much as he continued to work for decades thereafter and lived to 78.
The Audacity of Krope
@WaterGirl: The only thing beneath me is the floor. I’m honest, first and foremost.
You didn’t seem to mind so much when I applied it in a way that better promoted cohesion. Issue there is the events of this year have given me perspective on certain kinds of cohesion being toxic. Not sorry that I’m not sorry.
Professor Bigfoot
To learn that I hate white people is a revelation.
I mean, I’ve always hated white supremacy, and I believe the entire concept of “whiteness” is toxic— but how does that add up to “hating white people?”
different-church-lady
@Steve LaBonne: Greed wasn’t as evolved back then. These modern guys, they really know how to do greed right.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: LOOK, I’VE HAD A BUSY DAY!
different-church-lady
@Professor Bigfoot:
Eh, you’ll get used to it.
The Audacity of Krope
Sigh. I know this well. Damned autocorrect. It tried to turn (I think) roving into robing earlier too. It didn’t remotely fit the sentence.
I once would have thought that to be literally true. Recent events have shown me otherwise.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
But you hate Omnes, right?
different-church-lady
@Baud: Objection! Leading the witness!
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: People are allergic to logic and reason, math and stats. Maybe that’s why we need foreign workers in tech.
//sarcasm
Because understanding percentages, probabiliities and basic math and stats is beyond many folks. Even those who write for our esteemed national publications.
//not sarcasm.
Professor Bigfoot
@WaterGirl: Please tell me the “Black voice” that I have “silenced” on this blog.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: We may have resurrected it and beat it to death again. Who’s keeping score?
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: Actually no. I think I may have gotten mad at him on occasion, but I’ve actually found a lot of his comments to be illuminating.
But then, my taste is suspect.
Steve LaBonne
@Professor Bigfoot: Having served on racial justice accountability committees in two UU churches, I can tell you that it’s a difficult concept to explain to quite a few liberal white people who think they’re somehow exempt from white supremacy culture (and it took some formal antiracism training for me to even begin to understand it myself, and I’m very much a work in progress). It’s like fish not knowing what water is.
Chris Johnson
@Omnes Omnibus: Can’t say fairer than that, Omnes. And yeah, that’s a good reason why she wasn’t pushing for the lotus. People were (on Twitter, at least), and it was really sus once you figured out what it meant.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: I’ll allow it.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: I think idiocy is going to get about 10 more runs and then declare innings closed.
Ramona
@Baud: Hehehehe
Once I see that pun, it seems obvious!
Omnes Omnibus
@Professor Bigfoot: You might be drunk or high. Don’t drive until you are sure.
Professor Bigfoot
@Steve LaBonne: Yup.
I got so sick of being whitesplained that I recognized mansplaining right away.
It’s a daily job of work; just like it’s a daily job of work to get past the sexism and misogyny that got wired into me by dint of simply being male in America.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
It’s a characteristic that everyone here shares.
The Audacity of Krope
Tell us whether you have moderating privileges and the question may well answer itself.
Professor Bigfoot
@Omnes Omnibus: See what I mean? 😉
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: We love you, Omnes and Steve in WTF. You guys are our legal think tank.
frosty
@Renie: I haven’t seen those comments dozens of times. I *have* seen a lot of pastry though. Pie makes these 300+ comment threads go a lot faster.
different-church-lady
@Professor Bigfoot:
But once you’ve figured out which one it is, go right ahead.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Audacity of Krope: I have absolutely NO power or privileges in this fine establishment; thus driving my question.
I mean, I’m not saying I didn’t, I just have no recollection of it.
The Audacity of Krope
Agreed. I, too, find the Professor’s taste suspect.
Kidding, of course. Lot of sensitive nerves in here.
Timill
@Omnes Omnibus: <JamesDNicoll> So what new vocabulary did you steal? </JamesDNicoll>
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?
Baud
Via Blue sky
artem1s
generally I agree with him concerning the football/influencer culture that is elevated over education in this country. But thinking that TCF’s administration is going to prioritize anything over grifting and stealing everything that isn’t nailed down is well past delusional. He is the poster child of parents who put style over substance and the get quick rich scheme over hard work and ingenuity.
Professor Bigfoot
@different-church-lady: Trust me, I won’t be drunk. I swear, just reading the label on a bottle of beer puts me straight to sleep anymore.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: Let’s share some tea and talk about it.
different-church-lady
@Baud: GODDAMMIT, I AM NOT CREATING A NEW PASSWORD JUST TO MAKE DINNER!!!
schrodingers_cat
@Gretchen: My father is still in the hospital but not in the ICU. He texted me telling me that he was well. He will be going home tomorrow. Thanks for asking.
MIL is still here.
karen marie
@The Audacity of Krope: This is why pie is useful. I pied both of your “friends” long ago.
Trivia Man
@Steve LaBonne: Im in my third congregation that has adopted the 8th principle. The discussion around simply using the term “white supremacy” was interesting. Immediate knee jerk was always explicitly or implied … NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE.
Ramona
@The Audacity of Krope: I envy both your patience and your eloquence!
Omnes Omnibus
@Timill: Nah, we may have done that one for fun not profit.
The Audacity of Krope
@karen marie: Fair. I only pie people who I see outright lying and slandering people. To her credit, she has never done this that I have witnessed.
trollhattan
@Professor Bigfoot:
Just threw my kid out of the house. You could project movies on her.
different-church-lady
Maybe everything will be okay if we start talking about Porsches again?
schrodingers_cat
Approaching Tbogg.
Steve LaBonne
@Trivia Man: There is a gadfly faction in my former congregation that is all about “I was called a racist” and hating on the supposedly authoritarian UUA (what a joke) and the new Article 2, which is why my wife and I left. In our current congregation nobody has even heard of any of that crap. Such a blessed relief.
trollhattan
@different-church-lady:
Real Porsches or those Cayenne monstrosities?
MobiusKlein
@schrodingers_cat: It’s hard when loved ones are in the hospital, with no ability to join and comfort them.
also, my first TBOGG unit post. Where do I get my ribbon?
The Audacity of Krope
Haha, I appreciate that. As I prize honesty, however, I regret to inform you both are an illusion driven by my ADD keeping me glued to the phone while I know I should be rolling a blunt and watching Squid Game.
different-church-lady
@trollhattan: OK, so I was wrong…
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: I’m glad your father is better! Sorry about the MIL. I hope you’ve gotten some onions.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
It’s refreshing to see someone finally appreciate lawyers.
sab
My sister has just retired from a successful career as an art historian specializing in Chinese and East Asian art. Had she tried to get into the field a few years later she would have been beat out by actual Chinese. Even in America. No comment on the competence of anyone. That is just how they hire.
Her sister in law (Chinese) has an American husband who is an electrical engineer. When they moved to China he taught English. He knew technical English, which was actually useful for his students. But what they liked was he was White, i.e. more clued into English. There are many many Chinese Americans who are totally fluent in English and several Chinese dialects, much better than any American, but the Chinese wanted the whiteness as proof of competence in English.
Steve LaBonne
@The Audacity of Krope: I pie, after maybe a couple of attempts at productive conversation, anyone who is likely to get my Irish up. Life is too short.
zhena gogolia
We really did enjoy the clown fight video.
zhena gogolia
@Steve LaBonne: I had a lot of pie during the Biden war. Now I don’t have any pie.
Steve LaBonne
@sab: Humans kind of suck.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: We were so young then…
cmorenc
@Suzanne: Actually, Vivek’s rant that got him in trouble with MAGAs is about the only thing I agree with him on. Dominant American culture is anti-intellectual, even though we do manage to produce a fair number of native STEM nerds in spite of the glory heaped on the athletes and cool kids in high schools.
Miki
@Chris Johnson: My dad was one of hundreds of engineers hired away from power companies to work on rockets at Redstone Arsenal in the mid 50s. Heady times – we went to church with Werner Von Braun, ffs. Those engineers went to school at public universities on the GI bill after serving in WWII.
Fuck Vivek and Musk.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Oh she backed down on the no onion no garlic thing within a week.
karen marie
@TBone: I couldn’t see it at the twitter link – I got a black screen and “retry.” Curious, I googled it. That diamond is under $1,000 or I don’t know diamonds. It looks like a chip.
I’d be super pissed if my very wealthy fiancé gave me a ring that shit.
Steve LaBonne
@zhena gogolia: Thank the FSM we’ve mostly gotten past that here. The way Biden continues to be dumped on totally undeservedly, out in the wide world, continues to chap my ass. This fucking country didn’t deserve him.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: YES.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I got my GC because of a lawyer. Lawyers have their uses. I listen to them when I ask for their advice.
Steve LaBonne
@schrodingers_cat: I (former spouse of a Parsi) have been trying to imagine Indian food without onions and garlic, and utterly failing.
The Audacity of Krope
@Steve LaBonne: I understand the impulse, though I hate missing too much of the conversation and am way too lazy to toggle the people I want to hear from because they respond to the people I don’t.
Besides, I love a good verbal scrap. I have low blood pressure and I need something to keep it up so my doctor doesn’t worry herself over me.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: Good! I was thinking of you when chopping onion and garlic for the Christmas dinner.
schrodingers_cat
@Steve LaBonne: It is possible, just not enjoyable.
Have you ever been to Mumbai? Its a haven for great Parsi food.
scav
@different-church-lady: Well, my father and I basically lost all respect for Porsches when we discovered they made pepper mills. I’m sure this will prove controversial.
True statement, so long as loosing all respect is equivalent to laughing like loons in a large Bon Marché.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: I’ve always believed that everyone hates lawyers— except for their own.
I do love the Pot Bothers Law Firm, though— even though it’s difficult for me to follow their sage advice and shut the fuck up.
Steve LaBonne
@The Audacity of Krope: This is a good community, with no Loomis to stir the shit, so there are never more than a small handful of people in my filter. And the toggle is a really useful feature.
zhena gogolia
@Steve LaBonne: No, it didn’t.
I was just ranting to my husband (a frequent occurrence these days). I’m old, I hate AI, I hate a lot of newfangled things, but I was so looking forward to the young Black woman president and her dynamic VP shaking things up and moving the country forward. Why are people so afraid of that? Why do they want to hand over power to UGH I CAN’T EVEN ENUMERATE HIS “QUALITIES AND QUALIFICATIONS” YET AGAIN
KatKapCC
@MobiusKlein: I was told it was 500. But I believe we can get there.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope: You are right about that.
i am not fond of shit stirring. And I’m really not a fan of getting emails from person after person saying they are staying away from the blog because of it.
With the shit that is going to be coming our way, we are all going to need communities to get through it.
Shit stirring and picking at the same scabs over and over and over – some days here lately it feels like quicksand.
Steve LaBonne
@schrodingers_cat: Twice, years ago, to visit my then inlaws. Really good times.. My daughter has been there multiple times and has a lot of friends there. As to Parsi food, I keep threatening to make dhansak and prawn patio and one of these days I need to actually do it.
karen marie
@UncleEbeneezer: Mayo+sriracha+hoisin sounds delicious! Great on a sandwich, great as a dressing for salad!
I bought a box of “curry masala for butter chicken” a while back, and I used some to make butter chicken for Christmas Eve, using the directions on the box. It was tasty but not what I would even remotely consider to be “butter chicken.” That’s the bad news. The good news is, it is an absolutely delicious masala. This morning I made fried potatoes and over-easy eggs, sprinkling some of the masala in the potatoes as they cooked. So nice!
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: One of her jobs in the kitchen as my sous chef is peeling garlic. She hates garlic. *insert evil laughter
The Audacity of Krope
I mean, I said so on this thread, but I didn’t really mean it. I just wanted a joke to help me fit in with the cool kids.
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: Doing business and travelling in India really whetted my love of Indian food.
But now I’m married to a woman for whom… well, let’s just say ketchup is about as “spicy” as she can handle.
schrodingers_cat
@Steve LaBonne: I was here in the fall. They have great Parsi food, like berry pulao. Was there with my SIL after an evening of shopping in the Fort area. We had a good time. Great food, cold beer!
Trivia Man
@The Audacity of Krope: New Squid Game dropped???
Starfish (she/her)
@John S.: Yeah, and the H1-B visa holders can’t bounce as easily when the corporate culture is trash.
karen marie
Can we please have a new thread? This one is poisonous.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: You probably have traveled in India more than I have.
Omnes Omnibus
@MobiusKlein: We’re only at 80%.
Steve LaBonne
@schrodingers_cat: You’re making me want to go back, but I remember the horror of the long long flight, ugh.
The Audacity of Krope
Well, I may not have directly emailed you, but that has been me for a few several-month stretches. Tastes change. Relationships start and end. Some will come back, some won’t. We may one day even go through a growth period again.
And for the record, I am not deliberately stirring shit. I’ve simply become indifferent to the risk of shit getting inadvertently stirred because something needed to be said.
different-church-lady
@karen marie: What kind of poison would you like in the new one?
The Audacity of Krope
@Trivia Man: Yup 😁 Early this morning or maybe yesterday.
@different-church-lady: MDMA, please. It’s been a tough year and too long since…
schrodingers_cat
@karen marie: I use this one for butter chicken
Steve LaBonne
@Professor Bigfoot: My Pennsylvania Dutch second and last wife will tolerate the occasional mild curry and actually likes tikka masala, but that’s about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@karen marie: The second half is fun. But any thread that starts out with clown video is doomed.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: 87.6%! Jeez, maybe Ramaswamy’s got a point…
Doug R
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I know when the courier company that my wife and I got taken over and they fired/forced out everyone who had worked for the old company, we reported them to the Canada Revenue Agency.
They got audited and the CRA came up with the multi-question test as to whether someone is a contractor or an employee.
So you’re welcome.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Clowns are pure evil. Do. Not. Want.
Mr. Bemused Senior
I leave for an hour and all Hell breaks loose. Whew.
different-church-lady
I suppose this would be a bad time to mention I did home-made mayonnaise for the first time today…
different-church-lady
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Try leaving again. Scientific method and all that.
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: My first visit was 15 years ago this month (holy cow time flies)— our local rep had us booked for so many meetings in that two weeks… oh but I loved it.
The food, the music, the people I was the only person I worked with who really looked forward to visiting India. I remember descending into New Delhi and as you pass below a few hundred feet the aroma gets into the cabin. Woodfires with a tiny hint of burning tires, lol.
I swear, by the time my time in that company ended, as I smelled that I always thought, “ahh, I’m home,” even though I most certainly manifestly was not!
It’s the only thing I really miss from working.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: In America, even the lawyers can’t math.
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
Maybe we heard it the first 100 times and don’t need to hear it again.
John S.
@schrodingers_cat:
That includes you.
schrodingers_cat
BTW H1B- workers have filed litigation against their employers and succeeded. As I said the program has problems but the foreign tech workers are not powerless or poor.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: I have never been to Delhi. I am a Yankee Mumbaikar.
TBone
@Baud: lawyers are really just ‘attack librarians.’
gene108
@Baud:
Edited: To try to fix formatting.
Looking at the data from https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/foreign-labor/performance the Cato link seems to be more accurate than the EPI link you provided.
There are plenty of problems with the H1-b visa program as it exists now. I think the EPI report does not match what is happening in 2024.
The biggest issue is lack of job mobility for people on the visas versus U.S. workers, in my opinion.
https://www.builtinaustin.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-engineer/austin For Travis County, TX (Austin):
Pulled the first few IT related job categories and compared the offered wage to the prevailing wage for the location for Q4 for H1-b’s from the DOL website.
Professor Bigfoot
@Steve LaBonne: Ehrmagerd— I made a pot of chicken tikka masala with a jar from Costco.
I thought it was DELICIOUS.
She tasted it once… never touched it again.
I have a couple of jars of butter chicken from the same company and I’m kinda terrified to cook it up!
TBone
@karen marie: it was the prose used to describe that unholy union that attracted me, not the size of the diamond which, the author pointed out, may be in a wedding, not an engagement, ring. Ainsley may have squirreled away any large gems and not be wearing them in public in case Sean is hiding assets he doesn’t want his other wife to know about!
different-church-lady
OK, let’s all trade recipes until we get to 500 and then sing Kumbaya.
Melancholy Jaques
@Omnes Omnibus:
Forgot that you’re coulrophobic.
The Audacity of Krope
Once it is acknowledged, I consider it heard. Sometimes people, out of willfulness or poor reading comprehension, fail to acknowledge what others are actually saying. We all experience this.*
Also, sometimes similar points come up in separate conversations about the same issue. Sometimes they are repeated verbatim, more often they’re restated per the context of the conversation.
*To this point, you’ve been dogging me personally for an hour right now. That’s fine. But out of respect for the work you do here, I’ve been pointedly avoiding criticizing some conduct of yours I haven’t liked.
I’m only telling you now because I’m about at my limit there and I’m suggesting we end this.
schrodingers_cat
I know two people who were on H1-B who went back to India within a few months because they didn’t like the terms and they are both doing well in India. One is a director at an Indian company that does tech work for pharma companies like J and J and Pfizer. He oversees a team of 100s spread across the globe. And one owns his own successful business. I am related to both of them.
People are really invested in the myth that all the H1-B holders are poor exploited workers who steal good paying American jobs from honest native born people.
TBone
@Melancholy Jaques: you made me look it up! New to me word points.
John S.
@gene108:
That’s hilarious. You’ll side with the fucking Cato institute just because it fits your pre-conceived notions.
And people here pretend to be aghast at Professor Bigfoot suggesting that white liberals wouldn’t cheerily throw non-whites into the wood chipper if it suited their white privilege.
John S.
@schrodingers_cat:
And here we have the lady wagging her finger at everyone about facts and logic using personal anecdote to advance her pre-conceived notions despite data and evidence to the contrary.
Fucking hilarious.
The Audacity of Krope
Learn something new every day. I always thought the fear of clowns was Coulter-phobia.
ETA: That’s a throwback for all you boomers. I value every audience.
different-church-lady
@TBone: The word for fear of clowns should be “normal”.
Melancholy Jaques
@TBone:
The subject has come up with Omnes before.
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata… so many times I had no idea just where the heck I was.
Here’s my ugly american memory— me and our rep (a most excellent fellow and someone I consider a friend to this day) were being driven to yet another tire factory somewhere, driving late into the night. We stopped at some little roadside restaurant, and I had their chicken biryani. I remember my friend saying to the waiter, “Don’t make it spicy!”
Heh. I was still sweating like crazy. But it was SO MF DELICIOUS that i could not stop eating it.
TBH, most of my travels consisted of airports, hotel rooms, and meeting rooms. I was able to take in some tourist stuff (the Red Fort and especially India Gate were amazing), but it was still mostly work.
(I picked up enough Hindi to shock a JKTyre negotiator once, though XD)
The Audacity of Krope
I don’t understand to this day. It’s just a person in makeup and baggy pants. There is nothing inherently harmful here.
There are your facts and logic.
Geminid
@different-church-lady: I’ve read that mayonnaise can’t be made during an electrical storm, and this has to do with the nature of emulsions.
I’m not saying you can verify this, just trying to reach 500 comments without much more more rancor.
TBone
My mother had lifelong, severe ornithophobia as a result of her grandmother asking her to get eggs out of the henhouse and getting her little child hand pecked. She didn’t want to disappoint her grandma! She would cross the street if she saw even a single pigeon.
Geminid
@Professor Bigfoot: I’m curious: have you ever been to Turkiye?
The Audacity of Krope
@Geminid: MOAR RANCOR!!!
Urza
@Baud: You are certainly more qualified than those about to take office. I think the nation can get used to a pants free president after whats coming.
Another Scott
@gene108: Maybe folks are talking past each other here.
Made me look.
MyVisaJobs.com for Austin, TX.
Lots of $130k+ jobs, but lots of positions at much lower rates at places like Infosys, Wipro, etc., that I think mainly place temp workers or do temp contracting (corrections welcome).
Dunno.
Best wishes,
Scott.
TBone
@different-church-lady: I had a very handsome, very Irish (alcoholic) boyfriend named Terence Cassidy a long time ago. He collected clown dolls and sang the ‘Tears of a Clown’ song frequently. The dolls were not normal hahahaha! I think one of his dolls was the inspiration for Pennywise!
Terence was a lady-killer.
KatKapCC
@TBone: LOL :D
TBone
@KatKapCC: I was waiting for someone to notice that.
The Audacity of Krope
@TBone: I showed my sister some time ago and we laughed. Sorry for not acknowledging your well-crafted joke.
Melancholy Jaques
@Geminid:
I was trying to do the same thing and but was having a difficult time coming up with something to say. I’ve been scrolling and reading the foregoing disputes laced with folderol and feeling like a redshirt.
Another Scott
@TBone: Some phobias are easy to explain, some are not.
My autistic brother is frightened of butterflies.
:-(
Best wishes,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: Sounds hectic. And fun.
TBone
@Another Scott: aaawww dang!
The Audacity of Krope
Why should some insects get special privileges?
Baud
So close.
schrodingers_cat
@MobiusKlein: You get a virtual ribbon when we reach 500.
Thanks for your kind thoughts.
John S.
@Another Scott:
And that’s exactly the point of the EPI study. Big companies post jobs as level 1 or 2 positions to purposely suppress the wages. It’s all a big shell game.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: Balloon Juice after dark material…
KatKapCC
@Another Scott: I can kind of understand that. I mean, I like them and they are pretty, but they are just big flying bugs.
TBone
@The Audacity of Krope: I wish I could claim authorship but, like so many of my “pearls of wisdom,” someone else said it first.
TBone
@The Audacity of Krope: omg
I am going straight to hell – someone here gave me a meme showing a demon prebooking his reservation due to inappropriate laughter
The Audacity of Krope
@TBone: Someone always said it first. Context-driven recall matters.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
Just?!? JUST?!??
TBone
@different-church-lady: they haven’t met Terence’s dolls.
schrodingers_cat
How about a musical number starring a famous Raj who was as popular behind the Iron curtain as he was in India.
This year is the 100th anniversary of his birth.
Steve LaBonne
@Professor Bigfoot: Only tourist thing I ever did with my ex was the cave temples at Ajanta and Ellora. Absolutely unforgettable.
KatKapCC
500?
Edit: Darn you, Steve.
schrodingers_cat
Tbogg achieved. Now I can eat dinner.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: Do you not wear makeup ever? Never chose to wear bell bottoms, either in the 70s or 90s?
Maybe you personally didn’t, but the societal double standard is shocking.
Melancholy Jaques
I don’t have any phobias, just chronic imposter syndrome.
schrodingers_cat
@Steve LaBonne: I haven’t done that either. Its on my to do list.
The Audacity of Krope
I’ve long suspected Melancholy is not your first name.
TBone
@The Audacity of Krope: ha!
West of the Rockies
OT: voices you can’t stand.
Trump, Hannity, Tuckems, Garrison Keillor (used to enjoy it), RFK. Jr.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: THEY ARE CLOWNS! WHICH PART OF THAT IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
TBone
Uncle Buck knew how to handle clowns!
Steve LaBonne
@schrodingers_cat: The Kailash Temple at Ellora, a monolith carved out of a hillside, is one of the true wonders of the world. Just overwhelming.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: The part where it’s supposed to be scary, duh.
Kayla Rudbek
@Professor Bigfoot: I was raised on lawyer jokes (dad probably told them to me in the cradle while he was in law school). There are only three lawyer jokes and all the rest of them are true. And the oldest lawyer jokes were written down in Latin, that’s how old they are. Translation of one goes: St. Yves was from Brittany, a lawyer and yet not a thief. Such a thing is beyond belief.
Matt McIrvin
@Another Scott: When my daughter was little, we went through the “butterfly garden” enclosure at the Boston Museum of Science and I was surprised to discover that being around all these butterflies seriously unnerved her. She couldn’t be convinced that butterflies weren’t stinging insects.
She was also seriously creeped out by Disney-style animatronics, which is a pretty common phobia actually.
The travel YouTuber Tom Scott made this amazing video in which he confronted his phobia of roller coasters. That’s another one that is quite normal–after all, they are intended to be scary–but Tom Scott has had adventures far exceeding any terror that a roller coaster provides without breaking a sweat. He’s ridden in a supersonic fighter jet, been crushed by an astronaut-training centrifuge until he lost consciousness, hung in a little harness on the outside of a gigantic wind turbine. Yet here he was visibly freaking out even riding a small roller coaster, because it was a roller coaster. As he explained, phobias do not follow logical rules. In this case, all he needed was to work his way up until he was enjoying riding Nemesis at Alton Towers. But it’s not always that easy.
Kayla Rudbek
@The Audacity of Krope: most lawyers in the USA do law because they can’t do math or science (patent attorneys being the sole exception and in order to sit for the US Patent Bar, you have to have a science or engineering background, bachelor degree or credit hours are what counts). Yes, I know this from experience.
And when I am in a pessimistic mood, I seriously doubt that most US attorneys can even handle logic. Most of the Federalist Society certainly doesn’t seem to be able to.
The Audacity of Krope
Motivated reasoning trumps logic in most cases. Deliberate word choice.
Miss Bianca
@TBone: That reminds me, I need to watch Uncle Buck sometime.
Tonight, it’s martinis, mac and cheese, and Die Hard.
zhena gogolia
Wow, impressive thread.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kayla Rudbek: Hey, I had the percentage right at the time I typed it.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: The edit window exists for a reason.
TBone
@Miss Bianca: you won’t regret it when you do, I’d wager.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: I don’t have that kind of time.
Ryan
“Elon Musk, bopping around on stage. Like a dipshit.”
No matter how this turns out, we’ll always have that (apologies if I got the quote slightly wrong).
TONYG
Here’s my prediction (for what it’s worth) … 1) Elon, and multi-billionaires like him, have a fuck-ton of money. 2) Freaks like Loomer do not. 3) That being the case, Trump will always suck up to the money people. Lunatics like Loomer can go fuck themselves as far as Trump is concerned. 4) Trump himself actually doesn’t give a fuck about immigration one way or the other. It’s just a shiny object to distract the rubes. 5) People like Loomer will bitch and moan, but they will NEVER criticize Trump himself. This is a cult, and Trump is the leader of the cult. Just my opinion, man …
Geminid
@Kayla Rudbek: I’ve only (to my knowledge) met one Federalist Society member, and it was long ago. That would be Eugene Meyer, it’s President. Meyer keeps a very low profile, but he’s led the organization since the 1980s.
I can’t speak to Meyer’s logical abilities but he plays the game of chess well enough to be ranked an International Grand Master.
I think chess strategy informed Meyer’s political strategy; that is, to keep pushing young conservative lawyers like pawns down a board, through various legal posts until they’re promoted. A federal District Court judge would be Knight or Bishop in this scheme, a Court of Appeals judge a Rook and Supreme Court Justice a Queen.
Eugene Meyer’s father was better known in his time than the son is now. Frank Meyer was one of William F. Buckley’s mentors and played a prominent role at Buckley’s National Review. Frank Meyer had been a member of the Communist Party in his early years, but in the 1940s Meyer rejected the Party and became a dedicated anti-Communist.
schrodingers_cat
@Steve LaBonne: I have read about it, seen documentaries about it. But I have yet to visit it. I love the cave temples in the Sahyadris.
Ruckus
@Kristine:
When money is one’s only concept of anything, it’s the people with a lot of it that almost always win over whatever/whomever is being screwed over. It’s been this way since man figured out how to get others to spend the effort of being a human and actually living, not just existing. In a democracy, that concept of money always wins was supposed to be extinguished, or at least toned down a lot. But we now see people that are far wealthier than it used to be because the tax rate was lowered over time rather significantly. And the rich still were because they still made a lot more than most everyone else. However that top rate has gone down A LOT over time. Now maybe it was too high but to me it now seems too low. It used to destroy most everything when enough people had had enough and fought back. But I believe that we’ve gone too far and so we now have your basic uber rich/few never more than poor level situation back. And shitforbrains and his new husband want to make everything worse, even as elon has more than anyone else.
Geminid
@Kayla Rudbek:
@Geminid: I just looked up Eugene B. Meyer and ran into a Federalist Society news bulletin released just today:
Interestingly, Meyer is not himself trained in the law:
This makes me wonder if Meyer’s outsider’s view of the legal profession made him a more effective political organizer. Or, it could be Frank Meyer taught his son about Leninist organizing principles. It might be both.
satby
@Mr. Bemused Senior: Tom Lehrer for the win.
Which dates both of us.
RevRick
The purity sin of conservatives revolves around matters of blood. They fret about out groups poisoning the blood of their people.
The purity sin of liberals revolves around matters of thought. They savage each other over what they perceive as incorrect opinions, beliefs, doctrines.
Insisting on purity always leads to self-righteousness, which is the surest path to Hell.
Pittsburgh Mike
Well, neither the article nor the comments match my experience with H1-B employees at all.
First, I haven’t noticed that new grads on H1-Bs aren’t any greener than new grads born here.
Second, it is *not* only large tech companies that hire H1-Bs — I’ve worked at four startups in the last 30 years, and all hired H1-Bs. It is more work to do, since you need a law firm to handle the immigration processes, but the cost was relatively insignificant compared to their salaries.
I’ve only been on compensation committees for some of those companies but I’ve never seen any evidence of salary discrimination. And indeed, for many H1-B holders, if they’re unhappy with their role somewhere, the can and do leave — if they look for a new position while employed, the 60 day limit isn’t particularly relevant.
Yes, the program could and should be improved — it should be easier to switch jobs on an H1-B and the quotas should be increased so that no nationality has an 8-10 year wait for a green card. But the idea that everyone on an H1-B is an indentured servant is just plain wrong.