My wife and I went to the Sportsmen’s Expo in Denver yesterday, mainly to see a couple of camper manufacturers who were exhibiting there. The vibe of that show was very kill-y, with lots of safaris to exotic places to trophy hunt, but there were also a lot of vendors selling camping and fishing goods. There were also dogs and raptors, both very cool.
So you’d assume that a place where a lot of gun-centric activities were happening would be pretty Trumpy, and maybe it was, but it wasn’t much in evidence. A few “lions not sheep” t-shirts was the extent of it. That slogan always makes me laugh because those shirts are often stretched to the limit over the pot belly of the out-of-shape “lion” wearing it.
Next door to the Sportsmen’s Expo was a free RV show sponsored by Camping World, which is a terrible company that nobody should ever buy an RV from, but since it was free and close, we decided to have a quick look. There were a few exhibitors in addition to Camping World, including one woman who had a booth selling blingy Trump hats. We noped out of there pretty quickly, but I wasn’t surprised to see Trump merch at a RV show.
We’ve been traveling a lot over the past few years, and as we travel, we encounter different groups of folks who like to camp. There are a lot of different types of travelers, with different styles of campers. I’d characterize our style as Overlanders: vehicle-based, international, generally “dry camping” (meaning no electric, water or sewer hookups), with a smaller rig (we have a 18′ long van). On our trips, we’ve encountered a lot of international travelers making their way through Canada, the US and Mexico. These people generally take longer trips (many weeks or months). We all use iOverlander to find spots to camp and things to do.
Our camping style and rig overlap a lot with the kinds of people who go to a Sportsman’s show. But we also see a fair number of what I’d call RVers. These are people who have a much larger rig, who often camp in a campground with full hookups (water, sewer and electric). These folks want to carry their living room with them, and are willing to haul around a 30 foot or longer trailer, or drive a big motorhome.
We don’t camp at RV parks very often, but we encounter RVers at state and national parks, and the only place I’ve seen a lot of Trumpy paraphernalia has been in a state park where a lot of RVers gathered. The rest is just a bumper sticker or MAGA hat or two.
Anyway, the point of all of this is that Trumpers do camp and enjoy the outdoors. Yet their orange boy gives no shits about the outdoors and public lands. All he wants to do is drill on it The red states themselves are oddly variable in their attitude towards financing and expanding their state parks. We were in Arkansas this year, and their parks were cheap and nice. Missouri wasn’t bad, either. Texas, on the other hand, is notorious for having a lot less public land and parks than you’d think for a place that size.
I don’t have a big point to make here, just that I find it interesting that people who want to spend time in the outdoors are all about a clown who would put a fucking oil well in the middle of Yellowstone if he thought he could get away with it, and if one of his rich donors wanted him to.
prospero
Is staying in a RV really considered camping?
@mistermix.bsky.social
@prospero: Well, they call themselves “campers” so who am I to argue.
One thing I left out of the post is that National Park campgrounds really cater to more traditional campers, and you see a lot of car camping there (camping in a tent carried there by a car). As time goes by, those campgrounds are being redesigned to handle the massive rigs RVers prefer.
Ruviana
So, (whistles casually), have you ever run into Clarence Thomas out there?
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Ruviana: Nope. Thankfully
Omnes Omnibus
@prospero: I wasn’t going to say it. Having been called a snob once today, I didn’t want to have people add purist to the list.
Baud
I respect their commitment to owning the libs above everything else.
frosty
@prospero: Ha! Years ago I decided that everyone who camps can look at someone else and say that they’re not camping. My point being that if you’re living outdoors in some fashion, you’re camping. Here goes:
Guy in a big fifth-wheel looks at a motorhome: “That’s not camping”
Travel trailer (us) looks at the fifth-wheel: That’s not camping (TNC). You’re stuck without hookups or a generator.
Pop-up looks at the travel trailer: TNC. We’re sleeping under canvas.
Tent looks at the pop-up. TNC. We’re sleeping on the ground!
Guy with a tarp looks at the tent: TNC. You don’t get wet when it rains.
Guy with no tarp says: TNC. You brought your own shelter instead of building it from what’s around you.
Naked guy looks at guy with no tarp. TNC. You’re wearing clothes!
frosty
@@mistermix.bsky.social: It’s easier to get sites at some National Parks because they don’t have hookups. We stayed at Mammoth Cave with a full water tank and solar panels. We’re good for about five days.
My take? If you’re not set up to dry camp you’re not doing it right.
Gin & Tonic
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ll take the hit if you won’t. If you can’t carry your shelter it’s not camping.
Tim C
Took a moment, but I found this from 2017:
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/2/2/14479462/chaffetz-public-lands-backlash
Not saying it won’t happen again, but this story is a reminder that they don’t always hate the environment, they are often just pig-ignorant about how stuff works until they elect people who bite them in the ass. Likewise, for all the noise about BLM (Not that one, the other one) folks in the rural west make, mostly they want to go back to the Pre-Clinton “Public Land, Private Profits” model.
TBone
Jack Smith resigned from the DOJ. As expected.
kalakal
@Gin & Tonic: My opinion too
@mistermix.bsky.social
@frosty:
We were at Mammoth this fall, too, and stayed at a dry site.
My goal with this rig was to camp in NPS campgrounds because those get you near the attraction and help beat the crowds. Dry camping is a must for those campgrounds, otherwise there just aren’t enough spots available.
jackmac
Camping World has been a big NASCAR sponsor (don’t know if that’s still the case). But they know their demographic.
frosty
ETA: I’ll check out Overland. We use RVParky to find places and to lay out the route/itinerary. It even includes truck stops, Walmart, and Cracker Barrel*, along with private RV parks, state parks, City/county parks, and Forest Service campgrounds.
*Yes, we’ve stayed overnight at all three when there was nothing else around. Cracker Barrel was in 2020 during COVID when Ohio shut down all state parks and all RV parks. There was nowhere else!
Omnes Omnibus
Are we going to discuss glamping?
TBone
Am now too old to sleep outside, even on my self-inflating, queen sized air mattress. Also I find campgrounds too claustrophobic after years of carrying in everything by car or on my back to wilderness locations (an exception to my campgrounds dislike is Mt. Desert Campground in Maine). Now I’ve gotta have a cabin to sleep inside, or my aching bones render me useless.
Once woke up to pop head out of pup tent and see a family of baby minks playing in stream with mama. Best early morning camping sight.
Glory b
I’m a very “urban” girl, Frick, Highland and Schenley Parks are rural enough for me.
Similar to another thread, we ha e to remember what their REAL interests ate, a deliberate it’s NOT preserving the great outdoors, just like it’s not preserving their own healthcare.
MagdaInBlack
@Omnes Omnibus: I admit to being amused with both glamping and what some folks do with the old “shasta” type travel trailers.
Neither are my idea of camping, but…harmless enough, I guess.
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: only by mocking it, I reckon.
Betty Cracker
Florida voters aren’t known for their collective wisdom. But a DeSantis admin proposal to install pickleball courts and golf courses in state parks roused such bipartisan fury that every politician involved (all Repubs) contracted amnesia and pretended that they too were outraged. Including DeSantis.
MagdaInBlack
When I was 8, so 1966, we spent the month of July camping on Lake Nemeiben, north of La Ronge, Sask. The campsite had been a road construction camp, rectangles cut into the bush. No electricity, no water. We got drinking and washing water from the lake. Our “lodging” was a pop up canvas camper, and we cooked on a coleman gas stove, lighting courtesy a coleman lantern. My dad went out in the bush, dug a hole, nailed a board between 2 trees, and that was our “bathroom.”
There was a lodge down at the end of the lake, which has a small store counter. Their electricity was provided by a generator. They did fly-in fishing, so planes in and out every morning and night.
This formed my idea of camping. The end.
Ella in New Mexico
Husband, kids and me have been blessed over the past 39+ years we’ve lived here to have never had to use a developed campground for our summer camping trips.In New Mexico we have so much available National Forest (as long as fire restrictions are limited) that we can drive deep into the mountains nd create our own private oasis. When we had two little babies, we occasionally pulled a more comfortable pop-up rented from the Army Activity Center, but for the most part we just pack up and drive in as far a we can to with 4 wheels and set up the tents, tarps, tables and camping kitchen. And pray the ice in the cooler holds out for the week.
Lately it’s taking hubby and me like an entire day to pack up the truck because A. We’re old and B. we have slowly drifted towards a “glampier” type set up which being in our 60’s, we really appreciate over past times of “Well, we have no utensils and Dad forgot the matches and all the airmattresses have holes in them so lets get ingenius” days. But it literally takes us most of the day to carefully stack and pack and arrange everything to fit in the truck anymore. Then drive 2-3 hours and try to set it all up in near to complete darkness. Then there’s the whole comfort issue of stiff knees and sore backs for the next day or so.
Sometimes I dream we’ll buy a smaller, but easier to pack light rough-terraine trailer to pull we could have mostly ready to go. One with conveniences like an indoor toilet and shower and upgraded mattresses, maybe a solar panel to help charge devices etc.
And seriously, as long as we moved our location every two weeks, we could escape the gross details of the entire fucking Trump coup indefinitely. Hmmm…
coin operated
Little of both at chez coin
We live full time in our RV, a 38′ toy hauler with all the amenities, and we like having full hookups when we travel. Spent last summer on the Oregon coast. Plan to spend next winter on Mission Bay in San Diego.
We also have a small trailer that can be hauled behind a motorcycle. In the years that I was stuck here in Vegas (previous boss wanted someone near his datacenter AT ALL TIMES!!1!!1!). we would go tent camping at Pine Valley NF Campground in the mountains of Utah. They had vault toilets and that’s about it for amenities. Nice pond stocked with rainbow trout…mrs coin and her daughters would reel them in while I smoked a cigar and dealt with hook and bait issues. Good times!
Omnes Omnibus
@MagdaInBlack: My first major camping experience happened the summer of ‘69. My mom, dad, took a six week car trip West. We camped every night except the few nights (Berkeley, for ex.) where dad had grad school friends. I turned five and lost a baby tooth at Mesa Verde. Backpacking with my dad on Isle Royale was the next big one. I was seven. First plane ride, a seaplane from the west end of the island back to Houghton.
MagdaInBlack
@Omnes Omnibus: The whole area was caught in the fires a few years ago. The 3rd picture is the lodge I remember.
https://alchetron.com/Nemeiben-Lake,-Saskatchewan
I never got to go up in a bush plane, much to my regret. A man who lived down the lake from where my parents finally “summer settled” (Off Lake, Ontario) was a pilot for a lodge and every morning at 6 took off on his commute to work.
trollhattan
My favorite places to sleep have been reached after lots of backpacking to get there. Not clear on my range now but know there are now plenty of remarkable spots off the list.
A night in the mountains is best night, presuming sleep happens too. Who turned on all these stars?
Am okay with campgrounds, but not the whirring generators and towed ATVs kind of campgrounds.
Gvg
We tent camped my entire childhood. 6 weeks through 13 countries in Europe because my parents grew up poor and hungry for travel and that’s what they could afford. They saved for that. We used to keep every thing in the closet by the front door so we would not forget something. Friday night dad backed into the driveway and loaded the car, we ate and left. He and I could set up the tent in the headlights of the car and mom could make dinner. Florida always had great camping parks.
Now I am mid 60’s and parents are late 80’s. They have an RV with a bathroom because mom can’t go all night and might fall in the dark. She has to use a walker this past 2 years. They took a trip out west last summer that dad said was probably their last….but they haven’t sold the RV and are starting to talk about another trip. It’s hard to get old.
I on the other hand, quit camping about 10 years ago. It just wasn’t fun anymore. I had lots of travel as a kid and realized I mostly didn’t care. Then there is money. I have never had a lot, and thats not what I want to spend it in.
My kid sister loves to travel. Most restless person I know. She never st Amy’s home even for a weekend it seems.
what matters is always consideration for others.
Xavier
Our “camping” thing is music festivals and children’s driveways (“moochdocking”, Seattle and Austin). Best way to travel, though, eat your own food and sleep in your own bed, see the back roads and small towns through a big windshield. At 26′ we fit in most national and state parks, try to avoid commercial parks.
Kathleen
@Glory b: My four letter c words are “camp” and “cook”. RV maybe for one night. My daughter and SIL both work remotely so they travel all over in their RV while working. Too much work IMHO.
ETA: Doesn’t mean I look down on people who enjoy those things LOL! Different strokes for different folks.
trollhattan
Speaking of outdoors and torture, I see that Metallica are playing Levi’s Stadium. Now, Levi’s can seat as many as 83k for concerts and I have to ask, are there really that many geezers available to show out for that? This ain’t Taylor Swift (who IIRC sold out multiple shows there).
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: I say we class up this joint and change the topic to luxury safaris.
eclare
After my dad left the Army he said he was never sleeping outdoors again. So there was no camping in my youth. I never really had an interest, either. After hiking eight hours, I like to take a hot shower and eat dinner at a restaurant.
One of my best friends inherited an RV dealership outside ATL, and I get the impression that it is an ATM machine. She and her family take amazing trips out west.
One of the best quotes I’ve heard is that with an RV you are basically driving your home in a tornado or hurricane with eighty mph winds.
narya
@Omnes Omnibus: Ever been to Kohler-Andrae?
MagdaInBlack
@Kathleen: What comedian said ” Anything less than a mint on my pillow is roughing it”
That’s pretty much me now ;-)
MagdaInBlack
@Steve in the ATL: Not safari, but there is now one of those luxury camping things out in (what used to be) the wilds of where I grew up.
https://camparamoni.com/
It draws from Chicago and the suburbs.
SpaceUnit
I used to do a lot of hiking and backpacking, in national parks and other types of wilderness areas. Occasionally we’d have to spend a night in one of those campgrounds with all the big RV’s.
Couldn’t wait to get on the trail and away from that shit.
trollhattan
I would so do this: Oregon treehouse glamping.
eclare
@MagdaInBlack:
I don’t know if Wanda Sykes said that, but I saw an interview where she said she refused to stay in a hotel without a step in shower. “I’m not climbing into a tub!”
scav
Another distinguishing factor is not what’s over their head at night, but what they do during the day. If it’s mostly sitting in a chair watching a slightly smaller TV, that’s a different beast from at least getting out and seeing what’s different and / or natural about where you took the trouble to go to. (see also going somewhere different and only eating in chain restaurants.)
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: As I said, I was already called a snob today. And wasn’t even over any of my major snobberies.
That said, I have seen a luxury Antarctic trip on a travel whatsis.
Omnes Omnibus
@narya: No, but my s-i-l is trying to visit all of WI’s state parks.
MagdaInBlack
@trollhattan: Ok, I would do that!
trollhattan
@scav:
The inlaws did a couple of see America RV loops and came home with an abiding love of Applebee’s. Sounded like a fun trip. =:-O
As it turned out, their second US loop stopped unexpectedly in Arkansas when the trailer became frozen in a field after an unseasonal fall freeze, so they spent the winter living with a sister there in the Ozarks. They stayed mostly inside California and Arizona, after that. That led to buying the singlewide at Lake Havasu, where they had to learn the hard way why everybody flees in May.
raven
I inherited several antique firearms and needed to sell one for my sister. I located a guy who had a business buying and selling and agreed to. meet him in the parking lot of a local gun store. I was anticipating some kind of whacked out gun nut and, surprisingly, the dude was really interesting and totally non-threatening. Ya never know.
narya
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve been there multiple times (it’s close to Road America, where I’ve seen Champ cars and Indy cars), as well as once to Mauthe Lake. I haven’t done much camping–we didn’t camp when I was a kid, I’ve never owned a car, I didn’t have the gear, etc. But my Friend camped a lot, and has the gear, and it definitely makes things like the aforementioned races much more affordable. The things I don’t much like are the bugs (esp. ticks), cold rain (every night of last year’s trip), and cold in general; also, this old broad doesn’t love sleeping on the ground. But: affordability, plus I like campfire cooking, and all the STARS if it’s not cloudy. And a nice barrel-aged stout around the campfire.
Geminid
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Hey Misterermix.bsky.social, if you get a chance, check out Fort Pickens Campground, across Pensacola Bay from the City of Pensacola. It’s federal, part of the Gulf Islands National Seashore.
Fort Pickens is a neat place. The park starts seven miles from the end of a peninsula that finishes at the mouth of Pensacola Bay. The campground is near the end, with the city about four miles across the Bay, about 25 minutes away by car.
There’s a lot of good beach, and some nice, flat walking and bicycling trails extending from the campground. And there’s Fort Pickens itself, a half mile or so beyond the campground. That’s a really big brick Civil War-era fort, with guided tours and a small museum, at least for now.
There are also some concrete fortifications dating from pre-WWII times. Four or five massive gun casemates line the way from the gate to the campground, with smaller fortifications scattered around. My tent site had its own concrete machine gun position with a pretty flowering bush growing out of it.
There’s also a more modern military experience at Fort Pickens, what with four Navy jets flying by in formation from time to time. The Naval Air Base is a few miles west, across the mouth of the Bay.
MagdaInBlack
@eclare: I feel like it might have been way back on the Cybill Sheppard comedy show maybe?
I remember thinking “yes, that’s about how I feel anymore.”
SpaceUnit
When I was a kid my dad decided we needed to do one of those see America road trips. He rented a camper trailer that you cranked up to full height by hand when you got to the campground. At a camp outside of Rapid City the thing broke down and wouldn’t crank up anymore.
I fondly remember my brother and I watching from the back of our station wagon as our dad yanked away at handle and cursed out that trailer in a relentless downpour.
prospero
@@mistermix.bsky.social: We drive and then pitch a tent. Then hike. Not you, but I find most RVers never hike. They sit around the rv all day. I have no idea why.
trollhattan
@SpaceUnit:
:-) Big Ricky and Lucy vibes. (Technically, Nicky and Tacy here.)
Quinerly
Urban camping off of Chef Menteur Highway for NOLA music festivals from the late ’80’s until Katrina destroyed those urban campgrounds. Rough area. A group of 20-30 of us would all travel from all over to meet year after year. We were on our third campground before Katrina hit. At that point, the previous 2 had told us to never come back. I still blame the folks camping for the Phish and Dave Matthews shows. Absolutely the most obnoxious fans to ever exist. We were accused unjustly.
Camping at the fire station in Helena, Arkansas for many years for King Biscuit Music Festival. No showers. As they say, you really gotta love the one you are with.
Car camping with Poco (75 lbs of floofy pupper) in March, 2017 thru Utah including Goblin Valley SP, Capitol Reef and Canyonlands NPs in the back of a Ford Escape
My most recent long camping trip was when JoJo las Orejas was a Covid Times puppy, and we camped for 5 solid weeks through Southern Colorado, Utah and Northern NM in Fall of 2021. The first 5 weeks was part of a 4 month trip AirBnBing and camping in an AWD Sienna mini van and a tent. We came into CO at the Sandcreek Massacre National Historic Site (a must see) then hit all the state parks in Southern Colorado (below Co Springs), plus public lands near Westcliff and Crestone, Co., Great Sand Dunes NP, Mesa Verde NP, Hovenweep National Monument, and Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP (my favorite NP behind Capitol Reef in Utah). Favorite state park on that trip was Ridgeway near Ouray, Co. Least favorite was Lathrop SP. I also did one day of the Telluride Blues Fest on that trip. JoJo was not amused. We also camped on the beach at Lone Rock, Utah side of Lake Powell. JoJo loved that. We camped 4 nights at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and 2 nights at Canyon de Chelly (Might be my favorite place in the SW). Only hotel stay during 5 weeks was 2 nights in Pagosa Springs.
Worst part of that trip….learning that my JoJo that I had adopted on a trip to NM in Feb, 2020 hated to travel. Did not understand the meaning of “going with the flow.” Still does not.
Best part of that trip…..buying my current home in New Mexico on that trip. When I get pissy with nosey people I love to say, “I bought a house on vacation so my rescue dog from Espanola could be happy again in his native lands.”
We continue to camp out of the mini van in NM. Off season. Mostly in the state parks near Truth or Consequences, NM. I love camping on the beach at Elephant Butte SP.
Next up without JoJo, tent camping at Chaco Canyon with a Navajo guide. In all my years of beating around NM and traveling 95% of the state’s backroads, I have never made it to Chaco. JoJo is definitely sitting that trip out.
SpaceUnit
@trollhattan:
Our trailer wasn’t anywhere as big and swank as that. It was very basic.
Sister Golden Bear
I did a huge amount of backpacking and camping in my teens and 20s, but I freely admit I’ve gotten soft in my old age, and prefer to do hiking during the day with a hot shower and nice soft bed afterwards.
Van camping looks interesting, but where I live the per-night cost is about the same as a motel room. Plus the Western Sierras have plenty of small towns with a place to spend the night. So haven’t been motivated yet to do so yet, although it’s something I might do if I go somewhere remoter, like the places I used to go in the Eastern Sierras and White Mountains. But it would be fun to do a longer van-based road trip someday.
Last time I was in Mammoth, CA I looked at some the car camping campgrounds we used when I was kid, and I noped out. Too close together, too many generators running, too many ginormous RVs.
surfk9
Ok, I’ll take the hit. We have an Airstream 27′ that we will be pulling to San Diego tomorrow from here in NorCal. I love the trailer and it tows like a dream. As a kid in the late fifties I camped with the family all over Europe. My father was stationed in Germany. He loved to travel and took us with him. If I never see another goddamn castle I’ll be happy. We traveled in a red 1956 Mercury station wagon with a big canvass tent on the top. My brother and I sat in the way back amidst cases of c-rations that my dad could get quite cheaply on base. When we reached our camping spot, we all had duties that we were required to perform in military fashion. The camp was always set up with alacrity.
Anyway, I did my time in a tent as a kid and when raising my kids. At 70+ I deserve some comfort when I am going to enjoy the outdoors.
SpaceUnit
@Quinerly:
Capitol Reef NP is awesome.
Quinerly
@Omnes Omnibus:
I actually was drinking a Hamm’s Beer when I saw that you had been called a snob. Eye winking emoji. In fact, I hadn’t read any comments here for at least 10 days and somehow that thread caught my eye. I then became curious to see if there would be some more discussion of this snobbery accusation on any other threads. For some odd reason, I then saw your “glamping” comment. Hmmmm….I might just have to crack a PBR now.😎
raven
@Geminid: Geronimo and his group were held there.
p.a
Recently watched a you tube of one of innumerable travel couples & they rented an RV that cost $850k and looks like it could double as a bomb shelter. But they’re young & get out & hike. Believe they were in Colorado.
Glory b
@MagdaInBlack: I could manage a night or two lol.
raven
@eclare: Our Airbnb has a clawfoot!
Quinerly
@SpaceUnit:
So underappreciated. Love that entire area of Utah….Torrey!
Other than driving Moki Dugway (top to bottom), driving highway 12 in Utah might be my favorite road. (Although, I have a yearly love affair with 89A in AZ and love 550 in Colorado). I spent 3 nights in a cabin in Escalante on that 2017 trip. Have never made it to Hell’s Backbone Grill and Farm in Boulder, Utah, though. Bucket list.
eclare
@raven:
Cool!
Quinerly
@raven:
Tucson AirBnB before Christmas had a really old, deep and wide clawfoot tub. I think it was original to the casita. I put in one of those new, acrylic ones up on my 4th floor Victorian in St. Louis when I carved out a bathroom up there in 2012. The acrylic ones are really lightweight.
raven
@eclare: We have a couple of nurses in the unit and they booked a couple of nights because we are close to the hospital. They are going to leave early because they miss their kids (and the storm passed) so we’re going to give them some $ back.
raven
@Quinerly: This sucker is cast iron!
SpaceUnit
@Quinerly:
Love Torrey. There’s an area behind the town (part of Fishlake National Forest ) that has a lot of the same features as Capitol Reef but no tourists and looser regulation. Perfect for day trips and casual exploration. You can have a fire.
My favorite camping spot ever was back in that area in a place called Devil’s Gulch.
Quinerly
@raven:
I was just at the Geronimo surrender site at Skeleton Canyon, AZ before Christmas. NM/AZ border. Poignant. I actually teared up. I love that area of Southern AZ….Chiricahua. Beautiful mountains.
A Ghost to Most
I spent two years during the pandemic building a 10×7 fully insulated cabin that sits on my off road utility trailer. Heated, and a bathroom. Perfect for nights high up, and 17″ of ground clearance.
raven
@Quinerly: Jeez, 50 some years ago we camped in Cochise Stronghold near Texas Canyon. We were deadbeat hippies and starving. We found a bag of albóndigas tied up in a tree and we ate them suckers!]https://cochisestronghold.com/
trollhattan
Republicans take time out from gloating to complain about winning.
SpaceUnit
I’ll admit that I was a bit of a camping snob back when I was doing a lot of backpacking. The values inherent in backpacking and RV camping really couldn’t be further apart. Backpacking is minimalist. RV’s are excess. But whatever. It’s all good.
Mistermix is correct though to assume that the MAGA types will be well represented at the RV park.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: And at Sill. Geronimo is buried there.
Raven
@Omnes Omnibus: Ah!
Quinerly
@SpaceUnit:
I have heard of this. Need to get back to that area. Putting your suggestion in my Utah notebook.
I did a big 7000 mile total driving trip from St. Louis and back in Feb/March 2017. 6 weeks. 4 of those weeks mostly on the road with one week in a place in Kanab, Utah…base camp for Zion, Bryce, Coral Pink Sand Dunes, Kodachrome, and St. George. You can burn up a lot of miles quickly in Utah (Northern AZ was also on that trip). Poor planning caused me to hit Zion on Spring break for students. Plus, an early morning suicide jump by a guy from Florida at Angel’s Landing left me with a bad feeling about Zion. And, it was a zoo. I just didn’t enjoy it and fled. That’s the trip when I did Utah’s Mighty 4. It was a pretty epic trip for me and actually launched BJ’s “On The Road” feature. I had lurked here from Cole’s beginning but had only had time to comment a little before 2016 election. Discovered I traveled in the same circles in St. Louis as Ozark about that time and had made a connection with him in St. Louis. I would be up early on that 2017 trip posting in the early AM thread on what Poco and I had done the day before…felt like I was filling up those threads with “me, me, me” so suggested a travel thread. For the life of me, I can’t think of the gentleman who died who originally put together the “On the Road” threads.
bjacques
@Quinerly: I’m just disappointed that there’s no such place as Torrey Canyon:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HUbohBMpVYk&pp=ygUYdG9ycmV5IGNhbnlvbiBnYWluc2JvdXJn
My dad took us on road trips to campgrounds including also KOAs, in the mid-70s. Kinda put me off camping for life.
Quinerly
@raven:
One in Tucson was. It had been “refinished” but was still rather beat up/pitted.
SpaceUnit
@Quinerly:
I know who you’re referring to but I can’t recall his name either.
ETA: And I too found Zion rather overcrowded.
TONYG
The Trumpists who camp just assume that THEIR favorite campground will be untouched by Trump’s policies. Anyone else can go fuck themselves. Selfish, stupid people supporting their selfish, stupid leader. After almost ten years of this nonsense, I’m convinced that the appeal of Trump to these people is the fact that they know that he’s just as despicable as they are.
Quinerly
@bjacques:
My parents were almost 40 when they had me. As I have said before, they were only children. I am also an only. They were Depression era and my dad was Army Air Corps, WW2.
WE DID NOT CAMP. I never had any camping in a tent experiences until camping for music festivals starting in the 1980’s.
My father didn’t even cook outside on a grill at home.
I am a self taught camper. Even my old boyfriends didn’t know how to set up the tents at the festivals.😎
Quinerly
@SpaceUnit:
I just looked to try to find his name. Really nice guy. I had a lot of emails back and forth with him in 2017 on that trip. I was so very upset when Cole wrote about his dying.
Quinerly
@bjacques: 💚
Quinerly
@raven:
Been there. Beautiful.
Quinerly
@SpaceUnit:
Have you spent any time around Bluff, Utah? Love that little village.
I spent a week at The Recapture Lodge there. It was like stepping back to the late 1950’s, early 1960’s. Just a cool place. More like a motor lodge than a lodge lodge.
San Juan River is there. I used Bluff as base camp to explore Mexican Hat, Valley of the Gods, Gooseneck, and Monument Valley. I’m a big Tony Hillerman fan and sought out Recapture Lodge because he mentions it in one of his books. Really cool pioneer cemetery in Bluff.
Bluff is another place I gotta get back to. Really not that far of a drive for me now that I live out here.
SpaceUnit
@Quinerly:
Rings a bell, but I’m not certain. I’ve explored quite a bit of Utah myself.
Does the town sit at the foot of a prominent butte?
MagdaInBlack
@Quinerly: My parents where married in 1935 and went somewhere in Minnesota on their honeymoon. When I appeared 23 years later, their camping habit was well established. They swore I was going to adapt to that life, and so, at 2 years old they were back in northern Manitoba with me in tow. That was the only time we staying in a lodge cabin
eta: they farmed and had a live in “hired man” so they could take off for a month and “go north.”
scav
@Quinerly: Alain Chamot (1971-2020) is the name on the first On The Road post.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
Modern RVers are a different crowd from RVers even a couple decades ago. The new ones are much more tRumpy. Reason: costs. A new RV will set you back as much as a house, and burn more fuel than a home furnace and six-burner Weber combined. Folks buying those are making enough that Felonious Thunk’s tax breaks look like they’re aimed at them (they’re not, but they can make believe).
SpaceUnit
@scav:
Yes. Thank you.
Gin & Tonic
@SpaceUnit: I was there one March, hiking along a very exposed ridge (Upper Muley Twist, maybe) when the clouds rolled in and it started to snow. Soon I heard thunder and I thought “I’m on a very exposed ridge.” Managed to make my way to lower ground without breaking any bones and found a rock overhang big enough to set up my tent out of the snow, and spent the night. Next morning dawned crystal clear, and I found that my hat, wet from the previous day’s snow, was frozen solid. Managed to hike back out to the car without major issues.
Gin & Tonic
@Quinerly: I think I know those cabins.
Geminid
@raven: Have you been to Fort Pickens? The park has a small fishing pier, bayside near the campground. Fishing there is free, for campers and day-passers. A Florida license is required for the rest of the park.
One pier fishermen I talked to drove down from Alabama. He’d been there a lot and usually caught some snapper and other fish. He said he had to throw some of the snapper back because they were the wrong type, but some were the right kind that he could take home.
SpaceUnit
@Gin & Tonic:
Good times! Nature will occasionally make things interesting.
ETA: And you never know in March!
Quinerly
@MagdaInBlack:
Fascinating.
I have had the non camping parents of a certain age discussion with others. The non camping parents of this era seem to have one thing in common. Southern.
I would love to ask them but I lost my dad in 2008 (born 1922) and my mother in 2015 (born 1923).
One of my father’s fondest growing up memories….a trip he spoke often about…was when he was 12 (1934) traveling across country in a car with his 2 uncles, aunt by marriage, and his grandmother from NC to CA to visit another uncle who had moved to LA (and eventually worked for Walt Disney). All pretty exotic for North Carolina natives. I forget now how many new sets of tires they had to buy along the way. That always stuck in his 12 year old boy mind. They did a lot of sight seeing and letter writing along the way. Travel diaries. I still have a box of all his travel brochures, notes, diary, business cards from stops, and pictures from his trip. My father saved every scrap of paper connected to his life and businesses.
He saw the Grand Canyon but was more impressed by Carlsbad Caverns. I never understood that until taking the time to look up its establishment in 1930. So the timing was right for it to be the hot new national monument/park to see. At that time you could even “take” pieces of the cavern. I was a hit at show and tell 30 years later in the 60’s with my cavern rocks.
Quinerly
@Gin & Tonic:
I think they were Escalante Outfitters or something like that. Cool camper cabins.
Well, thanks to this entire thread, I am now planning a Utah trip the last week of Feb and first week of March.
3 days ago I firmed up part of a trip I had planned for 2024 but didn’t pull off. So now in April, I’m working my way thru Kingman and Oatman, AZ; Needles and Bakersfield, CA to Kings Canyon and Sequoia NPs. Originally this was going to be a Feb/March 2024 trip that was longer and included camping for a week at Death Valley in Feb 2024. The only way I can do DV is in a Feb and without JoJo. So no DV until 2026.
I am very restless here this time of year.
Quinerly
@scav:
Thank you!!!!
Quinerly
@SpaceUnit:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluff,_Utah
I love the town sign.
Established 650 AD
SpaceUnit
@Quinerly:
That’s not the town I was first thinking of, but I’m absolutely sure I’ve been through there. I’ve knocked around in that area quite a bit. Goblin State Park, etc.
Kent
We owned a big popup camper when we lived in TX that we used a lot at state parks in the greater region (TX, AR, NM, and FL). Arkansas actually has fabulous state parks. For all the other things wrong with that state, they do have nice parks.
Sold it after we moved to the PNW. Just couldn’t make it work here. All the parks are way too popular during the weekends those of us with normal jobs have off. I was paying $100/mo to store a camper that we rarely used.
Now we just AirB&B or hotel it when we travel and it pencils out cheaper than dragging a camper around and camping.
Quinerly
@SpaceUnit:
I have been fearful that Bluff will get over commercialized. Still population under 400. Has turned into a progressive little artists’ community even though a long and storied Mormon history.
Lots of rafting outfitters there. So very close to Monument Valley and really everything in the 4 Corners area. Hovenweep (a favorite) is nearby as is Natural Bridges National Monument. And, of course, Bears Ears….I am sure Trump is again going after Bears Ears. Heartbreaking. Can’t even think about it.
Quinerly
@Kent:
I have become very tied to my Choice Privileges credit card with points. The hotels aren’t the fanciest but most are dog friendly….Quality Inns, Ascends, Comfort Suites, Radisson, Sleep Inn, Econo Lodges, Rodeways. Use my card for gas and restaurants. Pay off every month. The other day, I realized I had over 100,000 points. Using points for this trip to and from Kings Canyon/Sequoia NPs. So, accommodations are basically free. A lot can be said for the ease of just walking into a motel/hotel for the night. Most places are 12,000, 16,000, 20,000 points a night. And, most of their hotels include a very above average breakfast.
jame
When I was young, we didn’t camp; my father said he’d done all the bivouacing he was gonna do during WWII. But when my children were small, I took them car-camping every weekend, mostly in western North Carolina, looking for waterfalls. I’m so glad I did. I inherited an older Casita trailer, and want to get it road-worthy and go some more.
MoCaAce
When I was a kid we did tent and pop-up camping… and scouting. I tent camped for years but could no longer tolerate sleeping on the ground or air mattresses. Several years back I built a 13’ tiny travel trailer with a galley under the back hatch. It’s all the RV I need. I find RV parks too crowded. Even many of the federal campgrounds are overrun by RV’s and generators.
mvr
@A Ghost to Most: Towable cabin sounds like fun.
One of my too many plans is to build a teardrop trailer. One would suit our wanting to leave something on site in National Parks while we go explore. (Thus better than a small camper-van which would also be cool but also cost more.) And be a bit more bear deterring than the tent we now use.
I’m 66. We do lots of different things, some of which count as camping. In the old historic parks we like the old lodges (will be in the Grand Canyon in two days). But we like to stay longer than we can afford at Yellowstone, so we also tent camp to extend the visits. We tent camp sometimes when we fish. Sometimes we hotel (as we are doing tonight).
We also built a tiny cabin in Wyoming that to many will sound like worse than camping as we have no toilet in it – just a porta-bucket with a toilet seat. But it does have solar power electric and water from the best spring in the world, propane cooking and a woodstove. 10 x 14 feet. No wheels. And it is surrounded by national forest. Road is closed more than it is open so sometimes we ski or snowshoe up in winter.
When I was younger I hitch-hiked and back packed. Now we’re down to the cabin, car camping and lodge staying. I do want to do a few back country things still for remote fishing.
BellyCat
Another fun thread missed!
Boy Scout as a kid. Learned to tent camp and did so often. Loved it.
Bought a 1957 Airstream a couple decades ago and have fit it out for dry camping (aka “boondocking”). Composting toilet, big water tank, portable solar panel.
Spent five months out west with one year son and soon-to-be-ex. Boondocked the entire time. Saw amazing things and met incredibly interesting people doing same. Life altering experience!
Best vanity plate I saw on someone’s mobile setup “Small House. Huge Yard” :-)
Some thoughts that may be useful for the curious:
– Shit breaks: Met countless people with drivable dwelling solutions who were stranded in a hotel because their motor home/RV had a mechanical and the shop was backed up. 1.5 months for one couple! Your most flexible solution is a tow-behind. if your tow motor goes, you still have a “home” and you can rent a vehicle to carry on. Mentioned above 26’ is a max limit for many National Parks. Go as small as you can with max ground clearance if you take it off road (which is where the good stuff is!).
– Solar: A gift from Sky Kitty for boondocking! Much prefer a foldout panel with a long cord, rather than lots of mounted panels. Reason? Solar power works WAY better in direct sunlight at the proper angle. With roof mounted panels, you have to choose: Bake in direct sun for max power gain or choose shade and lose power? Remote solar panel solves this issue nicely. I use a cable lock on it for extra peace of mind while out and about. Cordless tools are a great solution on the road (Makita has the best batteries and fastest charging). I would charge up these mini tool batteries during the day, then at night (no sun!) recharge electronic devices from the tool batteries. Works a treat!
Get the biggest fresh water tank you can carry (I put in a 30 gallon tank) as this and propane (to power a fridge and heat if needed) are your two biggest limitations for a stay when you have a compost toilet. Fortunately, both can easily be recharged by getting water or propane from town.
For an interesting and eye opening gathering, check out the Overland Expo event. Multiple events West and East every year. All manner of 4WD living solutions that are WILD.
Naked link (on phone, sorry):
https://www.overlandexpo.com/
Gloria DryGarden
@prospero: I was a backpacker, and thought car camping was for the cushy folks. That snobby condescension went out the window after a few car accidents and a few years of chronic pain. I was pretty happy to be able to go car camping.
now I wish I had the bucks, and the parking spot at home to have a camper, or a pickup w camper top, or maybe a fitted out van. As things change physically, it’s great to have ways to still get out there.
I figure it’s partly karma for being so “superior “ about it when I enjoyed being temporarily able bodied.
Gloria DryGarden
@TBone: I love your minks.
Not as amazing, but one impressive early morning sight was a bison a few feet from my tent in Yellowstone. I unzipped my door to see who the fuck was whispering and chatting on and on in my campsite at 6 am. And froze still.
they are really big, up close.
I saw a member of the mink / stoat /marten family, but only once, up around 10,000 feet in Indian peaks wilderness. I still don’t know what it was, but I can remember the feeling of wonder, seeing it scamper across, one early morning.
Theres a huge bucket list of places I would have liked to backpack or hike into before that way became closed to me. But I am so grateful for all the places that I did get to be in. Nature was always my church.
Kayla Rudbek
Mr. Rudbek and I have done bicycle camping and car camping. There are even people who take it as a challenge to build a camping trailer that they can pull with a bike, and then there’s the company that makes a trailer that can be pulled by bike and convert into a boat https://betriton.com
MountainBoy
I am late to this party (thread) but wanted say that I really enjoyed reading all of your comments. It is especially interesting to hear how our camping experiences shift as we age.
As my Nym may suggest, I have been fortunate to live in the heart of the Rockies and spend a lot of time outdoors exploring. At 63, I am somewhat lamenting that my camping experiences are less frequent.
Cheers to all of you for this thread!
BellyCat
@Kayla Rudbek: OMG. That bike/boat/camper is RIDONKULUS! :-)
Would LOVE to demo one. Cost to purchase is?!?! (Gotta be crazy expensive)
BellyCat
@MountainBoy: Yeah… same feeling here. This is one of those posts that leaves me wishing B-J had another little time-space portal for those Jackals wishing to continue discussing a few meritorious topics, or those unable to surf B-J all day due to IRL activities/obligations.