Ben’s got it right, as does Josh Marshall:
I’m not one to tell people how they should react to or experience things. But for me I’m taking all of this in with a serene impassivity. They won. They’re entitled to their day. The Trump people have been signaling for days that they’re going to hit the ground running with what they describe as an executive ‘shock and awe’. I don’t see any reason to be shocked or awed. I don’t say this in any grand metaphysical sense. I mean that I’ve seen headstrong winners of close elections high on their own supply before. As I wrote a couple weeks ago, all of this is meant to hit you with so much sensory stimulus that you become overwhelmed. But the images you see wrapped around you in an iMax theater aren’t real. It’s still a movie.
I saw a bit of the inauguration on TV at the gym, and it seemed small and cramped. Two soldiers (Marines?) marching down the aisle as tightly as they could ended up physically pushing through the packed crowd. Then Trump got up and I stopped looking, because whatever he yaps is bullshit, and I’ll be focusing my energy on the fights against the certainly unconstitutional executive orders that he’ll be shitting out today.
Another good attitude about the inauguration was AOCs, who said on TikTok and Insta that she’s not attending the inauguration: “Let me make myself clear. I don’t celebrate rapists. So, no, I’m not going to the inauguration tomorrow.”
Baud
I agree with Wilker, but I don’t have much hope on people following that advice. We’ll see, I guess.
trollhattan
Will allow as to the motor procession being lit.
https://live.staticflickr.com/2513/3714896326_510ff40e22_b.jpg
RepubAnon
Hopefully, AOC will be the face of the Democratic Party moving forward
Jackie
Didn’t, am not, won’t watch. Am skipping all non sports related news today and quite probably tomorrow.
And from what I’ve skimmed/speed read of BJ today… no plans to torture myself here, either.
karen gail
I caught a screen shot of crowd in Rotunda; I had to laugh, this is the guy to gets off on size of crowds? This has to be the smallest swearing in after LBJ’s on airplane.
How is this guy going to get his ego fix from crowd size?
I do wonder if he is going to keep having “winning rallies;” signing EO rallies? piss off another country rallies? Enquiring minds want to know.
karen gail
@Jackie: I will be check Balloon Juice, and playing video game, along with rereading “in Death” series.
Suzanne
At this point, the best strategy (of really only bad options) is probably to sit back and let the FO follow the FA.
Spanky
THANK YOU FOR THE TITLE, because it’s something I’ve been telling anyone around here who would listen.
Unfortunately, no one listens to me anyway, BUT THEY SHOULDA.
Betty Cracker
I’ve complained in comments before about the Trump-worshipping MAGA douchebag next door. He skedaddled when the flood came and stayed away. I began to hope it was permanent.
Well, the son of a bitch is back, on today of all days. He waylaid poor Bill at the gate, and I heard his braying even though I’m inside upstairs with all the windows and doors shut due to the cold.
There are lots of MAGA dopes around here, but all but this varmint have the good sense to STFU about politics when they learn you aren’t a fellow traveler. Goddamn it.
PS: I’ve been so relentlessly unfriendly that this guy usually leaves me alone. But if he’s ever foolish enough to bring up his lord and savior in conversation with me, I will say, “WHY ARE THE EGGS STILL SO EXPENSIVE, MOTHERFUCKER? WHY?!?”
Spanky
@trollhattan:
One of the Teslas ignited?
John S.
@karen gail:
Of course there will be rallies. Lots of them. Every time Trump feels like his fragile little ego is bruised, it’s the salve that he immediately goes for.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker: Yes, please do that.
Warblewarble
If Democrats think when faced with a threat to democracy. That when they go low, we throw in the towel is good strategy, it ain’t.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
I’m avoiding the news. I think that now my work day is done, I may indulge in a little therapy: loading up Indiana Jones and clocking Nazis over the head with frying pans.
(And yeah, the Felon’s approval rating is already underwater on Day One, so hopefully I can live long enough for the Find Out phase. And hopefully Hakeem Jeffries and company are already compiling documentation for the third impeachment.)
Glory b
@RepubAnon: Maybe she should pass a bill first.
And stop trying to primary her fellow Democrats, like Shontel Brown and Sharice David.
I also don’t think someone in a safe, 80% Dem seat should be the one.
There’s video of her saying that “actually,” she’s really a socialist.
The Republican ads will write themselves.
catclub
@Betty Cracker: What has Trump not fixed, today?
Matt McIrvin
@karen gail:
The same way as always, he’ll just say there were eleven billion people in there, the biggest crowd ever.
matt
Yeah, I was talking to an elderly relative the other day. We were talking about how it was ultimately a close election and that people didn’t really vote to change the US into a Christian dictatorship. They voted for the out party because of inflation. If they rush to implement Project 2025, which was so unpopular they had to disavow it to campaign, they will face a hostile public.
Belafon
@Suzanne: And practice your humanity by protecting those that don’t deserve the fallout.
narya
I am awed–by the bread I just made. I spent the last week trying to revive my sourdough starter (and succeeding), and I made my first batch of bread with it! I made the Bird Seed Bread from the King Arthur Big Book of Bread, and it came out quite well. Not perfect, but quite good, in terms of rise and especially in terms of taste. For the “bird seed,” I used millet, chia seeds, some ground flax, and KAF’s Harvest Grains blend. It took forever to rise, in part because my kitchen is quite cold. Yeast is magic, and sourdough starter is especially magical. Here’s to the peoples who discovered what yeast can do
ETA: one of the loaves is going to my CSA delivery guy. :-)
Belafon
@Glory b:
That is no longer a threat. The ads write themselves if you do everything they ask of you.
Suzanne
@Belafon: Agree.
It’s all about protecting my family and friends and neighbors now.
Parfigliano
@RepubAnon: DEM party had a chance to make AOC the face on a committee. Nancy said no. That’s the DEM Party.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Just treating like another day, ignoring the Orange Fart Cloud, got better things to do locally in Denver in terms of impact and pushback.
Just like black folks do, dust ourselves off, get back up, keep fighting the good fight all the while repeating “Fuck that guy”. Lotsa people need our help so we’ll help them. As Clinton said “It takes a village”. It sure a hell does now: an angry, pissed off village that’s not gonna go quietly into the night.
sixthdoctor
Freestate Justice is hosting a webinar on LGBTQ+ legal topics this Saturday:
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1A4ZsTexRd/?mibextid=wwXIfr
kissel
@Glory b: all of those are lame criticisms of AOC that come from the establishment Democrats. At least she is ready to oppose Trump, not like many other Dem who are falling over themselves to get a seat at the table.
ExPatExDem
Not going to lie. I’ve never felt better about being outside the United States.
NotMax
Ouchie. Went outside to the vehicle for something and somehow ever so slightly twisted the bad knee (that’s the one on the otherwise good leg). Half hour later the discomfort is more than noticeable; beginning to swell up.
Debating whether to wait and see how it goes or put on the flexible (but uncomfortable when sitting) patella brace. Usually just elevating the leg parallel to the floor for a while is sufficient to set things as right as they can get. Meantime shall be hobbling around the hovel today.
Matt McIrvin
@Glory b: Embracing the label “socialist” is just an indication that she’s young. Very characteristic of everyone left of the Republicans who is under 40.
ExPatExDem
@Parfigliano: Not just said NO, but gave it to a 74 year old white dude with throat cancer.
That’s how determined the party brass are not to learn anything from their ballot box humiliation.
TooManyJens
I’ve come around to the idea that our public response to Trump has to de-emphasize showing horror and fear about all the ways he’s going to hurt people. Not that we shouldn’t feel horror and fear! But his supporters love that shit; they get off on hurting people and making compassionate people sad. And turns out a lot of “normal” people just don’t care that much about other people’s pain.
I’ve spent decades as one of those “if only we could make people understand, if only we could shame them into caring” type of liberals, but I’m done with that shit. Because we can’t make anyone understand or care if they don’t want to. We just have to beat them.
Liberals’ public face needs to be all about defiance and strength, and we need to make Republicans synonymous with failure and weakness. And primary the fuck out of any Democrat who won’t do their part.
NotMax
@comrade scotts agenda of rage
As far as the MOTUs and RWNJs philosophy goes, it takes a pillage.
Ksmiami
@Warblewarble: I’m actually calling Heinrich’s office Monday. I want him to both fight and to become a potential presidential candidate. He’s smart, tall, youngish and very photogenic. we need him
Citizen Dave
@trollhattan: Not Sure!
I’m staying away as much as possible. Recently I recalled that the word “shitshow” occupied a significant part of my thoughts 2017-Jan 2021; and now it will again.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Glory b:
Ah, yes, the indignity of primary challenges. Such as the immense amount of money spent to primary Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush. That was terrible, awful and no good. I’m glad we agree on this.
ExPatExDem
@TooManyJens: Not just defiance and strength, but relentless mockery of every misstep and fuck up. Authoritarians can’t abide being laughed at.
Calling Trump and Vance “weird” was the one line of attack that really got under their skin.
NotMax
@TooManyJens
“Where fear is present, wisdom cannot be. ”
– Lactantius
.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@NotMax:
Heh heh, they’re lucky I’m not Genghis Khan.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@narya: if you’re in awe, you can imagine how the rest of us feel!
I may try baking cornbread. With baking powder.
Geminid
@NotMax: I hear they’re calling Trump’s new crypto-currency “Rube-Ls.”
kissel
@@mistermix.bsky.social: thanks for pointing this out.
janesays
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: What purpose would impeachment serve anymore? Setting aside the fact that it absolutely won’t happen while Mike Johnson has the gavel, even when we take the House back in two years, there will never be anywhere near enough votes in the Senate to secure a conviction, ever. It is a completely toothless mechanism that serves no purpose other than to allow us to say that he was impeached again. It won’t take a single power away from him, nor will it sway public opinion significantly. I just don’t see the point.
Kelly
I slept until 9:30 Pacific. Best way to experience the inauguration.
Fabulous Thunderbirds “Why Get Up?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSv9ZEJOKXE
Currently have cat Phoebe on my lap, 7 month old Border Collie Daisy at my feet. Daisy wants to be friends but Phoebe is suspicious of the boisterous young dog. Petting both of them while inches apart which would not have been possible a couple weeks ago. The cats do not recognize Daisy’s downward dog play posture.
Leto
@Betty Cracker:
Remember the gator video I showed you? Do that to your neighbor. Make sure it’s cast iron, not a flimsy non-stick. 8” minimum, 10” for perfect weight and swingability. If you feel really froggy, go with the 12”.
Parfigliano
@Ksmiami: I’m in TFL District. Getting along to go a long doesn’t work.
Garland did that.
Elizabelle
@Geminid:
First laugh of the day. Thank you.
The Unmitigated Gaul
@ExPatExDem: I’m in New Zealand. it just feels pancake flat here.
Betty Cracker
@TooManyJens: That’s the spirit!
@Leto: Haha!
The Unmitigated Gaul
@ExPatExDem: What happened to that “weird” line? It sort of… disappeared.
Glory b
@Parfigliano: I think they all get to vote.
Any reason for thinking it was Pelosi?
Like I said, maybe people she tries to push out of office don’t like her.
Ranking members have to work with the Republican chairs of the committees to get anything done.
If she does that, she will disappoint all of her lefty socialist friends.
Kay
@TooManyJens:
I agree. I think of myself earnestly engaging with Republicans on politics all these years and realize it was never reciprocal. It was always me trying to persuade them, fake laughing, trying to find some common ground. Partly it was just being a younger woman, we’re socialized to appease, I take a lot less shit now – but partly it was because I had convinced myself it was an actual dialogue. It never was. I was doing all the work.
The MAGAs booed Obama and both Clintons today. Fuck them.
Leto
@narya: I don’t know if you know, I’m sure you do though, but King Arthur Flour has a pretty good YouTube channel. Tons of recipes with helpful tips. Maybe something you haven’t seen before is in there.
Glory b
@The Unmitigated Gaul: People keep claiming that Democratic leadership shut it down, but I’ve never seen an evidence of that.
ExPatExDem
Lost in all of the pre-inauguration/inauguration theatrics is some recent polling that showed:
Yes, supporting the Gaza genocide cost Harris the election.
Of those who voted Biden in 2020 and didn’t vote Harris in 2024, 29% overall said Gaza was a deal breaker. 20% in swing states.
I have every confidence that the Democratic Party will studiously avoid learning anything from this.
ExPatExDem
@Glory b: It disappeared right around the time Harris decided to chase the imaginary Cheney voters.
Glory b
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Oh, go ahead and primary someone, but don’t be surprised if they remember.
Only sweet summer children think they’ll be okay with it and sure! they’ll vote for you!
Trying to get people fired isn’t the way to win friends and influence people. Do it, but understand there’s a down side.
Besides, she’d have to work closely with the Republican leadership and you guys want her to remain pure and unsullied, right?
Glory b
@ExPatExDem: Do you have proof?
Or are you just speculating?
prostratedragon
@Parfigliano: Guess we just have to hang ’em up, then.
Michael Bersin
Visited a local non-chain coffee shop this morning. Came home, photographed birds. Missed the TV stuff.
Blue.
Starfish (she/her)
@Glory b: I think that there were pieces that did say it was Pelosi opposiing AOC. Here is one from Axios.
narya
@Leto: Thank you! I loathe watching instructional videos of nearly every kind, but I’ll bookmark that just in case. (I’m very much a RTFM person, and one of the things that makes me crazy is when software doesn’t HAVE a FM.)
Kay
TikTok really does seem to be censoring, not just anti Trump content but anti Musk and Zuckerberg content. They’re pulling it down. Oligarchy has no nationality, it turns out.
stinger
@Kay: I feel your pain. I have neighbors and even a brother with whom I am very careful with political talk. They aren’t, with me. I don’t want to have arguments, much less estrangements. Maybe if I did push back, they’d stop?
My background is in teaching, not lawyering, so I don’t have professional experience with pushing back!
Something to think about. I’ll have four years to see if I can put it into practice.
ExPatExDem
@Glory b: You realize that elected office is not a hereditary title of nobility, yes?
AOC won her seat by first defeating a 10-term incumbent in the Dem primary. Since then, I can’t recall anyone saying, “If only Joe Crowley were still representing the New York 14th District”.
He was buddies with Pelosi though, which would explain a lot about her ongoing bitterness towards AOC.
Betty Cracker
@Michael Bersin: Blue Jays are underrated, IMO. Here’s another blue for you.
Starfish (she/her)
Someone I am related to said that there will be no Bernie and mittens memes this year since the inauguration was moved inside, and I am deeply saddened by this.
prostratedragon
@Glory b: Hakeem Jeffries is the party leader. Maybe he would defer to a backbencher on something he himself really wanted, but I tend to doubt that. When Pelosi was the leader, AOC was given a committee assignment, which she still has, that many more freshmen covet than get.
ETA That’s more a reply to Parfigliano than to Glory B.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Well, that sucks. I wonder how people will respond.
Manyakitty
@Betty Cracker: this is a good response. I shall follow your excellent example.
ExPatExDem
@Kay: People who voted for this a second time around deserve neither grace nor understanding.
They deserve to get exactly what they voted for. With no lube.
K-Mo
@Glory b: I’ve been thinking about this lately. It used to be you looked for politicians with no negatives, no turn offs for any significant part of the electorate. Tim Walz was in this vein. But they still demonized him for minor flubs and a bunch of made up BS. And he didn’t move the needle much on anything in the positive direction. OTOH JD Vance had said all these awful things and was just generally a db. But he connected with bros, tech and otherwise.
I wonder if the conventional wisdom may have expired on this…. Would we be better off elevating some firebrands, even if they carried some negatives that invited auto-scribed attacks?
K-Mo
One of the many clever signs I saw on Saturday was “sex offenders aren’t allowed in public housing” with a picture of the White House
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I suspect they’ll blame Dems for voting for the bill that reinstates TikTok.
II Nettoyeur
@ExPatExDem: Er, the Trumpers promised to let Bibi do whatever he wanted, period. So by voting against Kamala, who would have tried to find some sort of compromise, the brilliant Dem Purity Ponies handed US policy over to Bibi, 100%. Same bunch who abandoned Hillary in 2016.
ExPatExDem
@II Nettoyeur: Shoot the messenger if you want, but there are the numbers.
K-Mo
@ExPatExDem: The point is, these voters will studiously avoid learning from this.
ExPatExDem
@K-Mo: It’s over. She lost.
You can stop pretending that bear hugging Biden’s monstrous foreign policy was a good idea.
Ruckus
I came to the conclusion long ago that we are nothing without numbers to back us up. I’d bet we’ve got numbers in abundance, and yet it won’t mean doodly squat.
Why?
Because he – and you know who he is – has zero actual control over what he does or says, because that lump of whatever it is in his head does not work in any way, shape or form in a humanistic manner. It works in a financial manner – at best a second grade financial manner, a pompous, arrogant, second grader that believes he’s top of the class. And he’s wrong, he’s the lowest form of second grader. If he went one step lower he’d be in first grade. And they don’t want him either.
K-Mo
@ExPatExDem: You lost me somewhere between the nonsensical interpolation of my views on the Middle East and the illogical switch in topics.
You posted an article about how a bunch of people who supposedly don’t support genocide voted to put Donald Trump in power. The rest of us were going about our day without thinking about voting breakouts in the election.
kissel
@K-Mo: Yes! We’d be much better off with people who have energy and passion then the same old establishment Democrats. And Republicans (and the media) would find a way to try to trash anyone who opposes them, no matter if there stance is “moderate” or not.
Geminid
@Glory b: In the election for Oversight Ranking Member, the Democratic Caucus voted 126 for Rep. Connolly, 89 for Rep. Ocasio-Cortez.
This was a secret ballot and I think it expressed a personal belief of 126 members that Connolly would be more effective in that role. And they care about the Oversight Committe Minority’s effectiveness as much and probably more than the many Ocasio-Cortez fans.
House Democrats know Connolly to be a tenacious negotiator and he will be the one working out committee procedures with the Chairman.
As far as the public’s view of the hearings, all this means is that Connolly will go first with his 5 minutes of questioning and Ocasio-Cortez will go second.
Personally, I don’t want any one Democrat to be the “face” of that committee. There are other Democrats on the Oversight Committee who are as capable as Connolly and Ocasio-Cortez. Raj Krishnamurthi (IL) and Jasmine Crockett (TX) are only two of these. Anyone can tune in to the actual hearings to see if this is true. That is, if they have an open mind about it
ExPatExDem
@K-Mo: I’d say more of them just stayed home than voted to put Trump in power. Turnout was down by 6 million.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
They’re mad. There was a ton of suspicion about the Trump re-instatement and this just validates that.
I wrote it because there’s a really popular pro Dem poster, a young woman, who is sort of serious and has a DC policy job. She’s not at all anonmyous.I find her credible. She said she did this clip where she simply read parts of Trump speech – his exact words – and they pulled it down as a violation.
Kay
ExPatExDem
@kissel: “Gerry is a young 74, cancer notwithstanding.”
-actual comment from Rep. Donald Beyer
Spoiler: There is no such thing as a young 74. Especially with cancer.
Michael Bersin
@Betty Cracker:
Excellent!
Josie
@stinger:
The other grandmother and I usually don’t talk politics, since we would disagree in a major way and we have to work together to care for our two granddaughters. A couple of week ago she tried to start a conversation about Hunter Biden, and I cut across what she was saying by telling her that I didn’t think we should discuss it. I was rather sharp in the way I stated it and I think it surprised her. After a pause, she agreed and has never mentioned it again.
My point is that, if you don’t want an argument, you have to draw boundaries around whatever you don’t want to discuss. If someone doesn’t respect your boundaries, you might want to consider walking away.
catclub
mail in voting in 2020. Actual voting too hard.
Gretchen
@karen gail: Have you listened to any of the In Death audiobooks, read by Susan Erickson? She’s amazing – she has a distinctive voice for each character – there must be 20 of them – and she goes flawlessly through each one, so she doesn’t have to say Eve said, Peabody said, Rourke said, you know when each person is speaking by the voice. Amazing, and very absorbing. Perfect for these times.
TONYG
I can think of only two advantages now compared to January of 2017: 1) Trump is eight years older now and eight years further along with his cognitive collapse. Maybe that mental handicap will prevent him from doing some of the damage that he plans. 2) We all know now how awful Trump is, so nothing that he will do will come as a surprise. In 2016 I actually thought that what he displayed during the campaign was a professional wrestling persona that he cast aside if he won the election. I quickly found out otherwise — that he really is as repulsive as figure as what he portrayed. So, no surprises now.
Quinerly
@RepubAnon:
Wouldn’t that be wonderful? Let’s hope for that.
Another Scott
@Glory b: I’m kinda pragmatic about this.
One thing that I keep remembering is:
Gerry Connolly got about 125,000 more votes than AOC did in November. Their districts are about the same size and they both won about 2:1. From that result, one can’t somehow argue that she is great at turning out votes or that Gerry is someone out of touch with his voters.
I like AOC. She’s talented and does well in committee hearings.
That doesn’t mean she’s a good fit for leadership now. Leadership is a different skillset.
Those arguing that she’s somehow overwhelmingly demonstrated how the Democratic Party needs to change to win elections need to show their work.
Her losing the Ranking Member election isn’t some grand conspiracy of oldsters being determined to keep her down. Politicians more than anything want to win re-election and be on the winning team and be in the majority. She needs to make a more compelling case to her colleagues if she wants to move up in leadership quickly.
My $0.02.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Quinerly
@Suzanne:
That’s where I am.
Trying to reconcile my feelings about the FO since so many people will be hurt. Unfortunately, I’m not sure there’s any other way.
Quinerly
@Parfigliano:
And, I’m still pissed about it.
ExPatExDem
@catclub: Maybe.
But of those who did show up, if she doesn’t support Biden’s Gaza policy, she likely wins Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Nevada, and the election with 276 EV.
Betty Cracker
So this happened.
Quinerly
@ExPatExDem:
There have been a couple of articles out on this in the last few days. I think a different one was posted here. Maybe even by me. I either posted it or sent it by email to someone.
Crickets here. Harris never had a chance in the short time she had.
Gretchen
@Glory b: You keep going back to things AOC did in her first term, when she was a 28 year old newbie who didn’t know how things worked. She’s been listening and learning since then. She hasn’t tried to get primaries for Dems in purple districts since then, and is in fact one of the biggest fundraisers for other Dems. She’s a prepared and very effective questioner in hearings. She’s good at getting viral sound bites to get our message out. She had a number of her voters who also voted Trump and had a meeting to ask them why, again to figure out what messages resonate. Since we complain that Dems can’t get our message out, we need members who have that ability.
ExPatExDem
Except when octogenarian Pelosi is whipping the vote against her, and is still salty about AOC denying her buddy Crowley his patrician right to 5 decades in Congress, it sounds like exactly what you described.
Young people didn’t turn out for the Dems in 2024. Continuing the gerontocracy system just shows that the party is still not listening to a key constituency. Probably also didn’t help that they spent a year calling a key constituency anti-semites and cheering for the police to be set on them.
Geminid
@ExPatExDem: You are assuming that Harris wouldn’t have lost as many or more votes from other people if she had broken with Biden on Gaza policy. I think this would been a zero-sum proposition at best.
Quinerly
@Betty Cracker:
My Pinyon Jays are noisy and aggressive. JoJo actually snatched one before Christmas. Killed it pretty instantly and tried to bring it into the house. We had a little battle over it.
Great picture.
LightCastle
Those numbers don’t add up to her losing, though, from what I can see.
Was it a factor? Sure.
But even if you interpret it as “everyone who put that as their most important reason would have switched their vote”, I don’t think you get to an electoral college win with the numbers they are reporting in that survey.
I don’t think you can get there with the “more likely to vote for her” either. (You will note that they didn’t ask “would you have voted for her”, which would have answered the question clearly.)
One of the problems is that we don’t know how many people we are talking about here. They polled 600+ people who say they voted for Biden in 2020 but didn’t vote for Harris in 2024. We don’t know how many people that actually is.
I leave analysis of the methodology of the survey proper to someone who can do it properly.
Another Scott
Best wishes,
Scott.
Josie
@Geminid: I agree. Netenyahu pretty much managed to box in Biden/Harris. She would have lost votes no matter which way she went, and the same thing would have happened to Biden if he had been running. There was no winning on this issue.
ExPatExDem
@Josie: The fact that she decided to err on the side of genocide was repugnant.
Josie
@ExPatExDem:
That’s sort of moving the goal posts. Of course, it was repugnant, but i thought we were talking about political reality. Both parties have at times espoused repugnant ideas. No one’s hands are clean.
ExPatExDem
@Josie: How so?
If you decide that either position is risky, why not choose the one that doesn’t involve support and finance of bombing children?
karen gail
@Gretchen: No, I happen to own the paper books and with my poor hearing audiobooks are out; even if I was in my 20’s rather than 70’s audiobooks would still be out. I have always had trouble hearing anything recorded; I think they now call it “cookie bite hearing” but there are some voices I struggle to hear and some sounds I have probably never heard. (Uncle figured out why I had so much problem singing when he realized there were some notes I couldn’t hear. I was in early teens at the time.)
Josie
@ExPatExDem:
My guess is that Biden is wedded to the twentieth century belief in the necessity to protect Israel in every way and Harris was reluctant to go against him. I would imagine there were advisors that influenced her decision to stick very close to her boss on a number of issues. It’s possible that she is regretting that now, but I understand the reasoning.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Betty Cracker:
I learned something over the years regarding Blue Jays: there is a noticeable difference between rural and urban Blue Jays.
Urban Blue Jays are loud assholes. That was the case in NoVA, WV and back here in Denver. Whereas rural Blue Jays (back in Central Misery where we were along the Osage River was great for birding), the Blue Jays weren’t obnoxious, loud, persistent jerks.
Maybe it’s because life in the country was harder? I dunno but observing them for literally decades there, then coming back here, I’d forgotten the difference in behavior.
Geminid
@Josie: Besides the self-interested Netanyahu, Biden (and Harris) also had to contend with Hamas. That negotiating party had a perverse incentive: they believed that the more Gazans Israel killed the stronger their own negotiating position would be.
Before this one, I never heard of a war that one government started with a strategy of sacrificing tens of thousands of their own citizenens in order to degrade their opponent’s international position.
But that’s what Hamas did on October 7, 2023; they mounted a savage attack that was intended to provoke a savage response. Hamas got what they wanted, and when 20,000 dead didn’t do the trick they doubled down.
Josie
@Geminid: I hadn’t thought of it in that way. It only makes the no win position of the U. S. even worse. I don’t know how you come up with a good solution when both sides think prolonging the war is to their benefit.
K-Mo
@Geminid: This is a good point. I don’t know whether it was a zero sum game but you can’t just add back all the votes described in the article and leave it at that. That’s not a serious way to project voting behavior with respect to a a wedge issue.
Should she have taken a different view regardless of the electoral consequences? That’s a different question.
Gretchen
@karen gail: I’m sorry about that. The paper books are great too. I’ve probably read more of them than I have listened to. I’m always eagerly looking forward to the next release. I could probably go back and reread the earlier ones since I’m sure I’ve forgotten how they turn out
tam1MI
Push pill by an organization with a vested interest in trying to claim credit. Useless.
tam1MI
On that, we can agree. The optics on this were terrible, it was insult to injury.
Betty Cracker
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Interesting! I’ve noticed a difference in the behaviors of town-dwelling ibises vs the swamp version.
Betty Cracker
@Quinerly: Bill rescued a fledgling Blue Jay from one of our dogs once years ago. The ungrateful parents attacked him for it!
UncleEbeneezer
The richest man in the world, serving as henchman/puppet-master to the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth, just gave a Nazi salute. I don’t wanna hear shit about how Israel shouldn’t exist or Zionism is the real evil. This is precisely why Zionism/Israel were necessary in the first place.
lowtechcyclist
@ExPatExDem:
You’re the one who’s brought it back up. Pie now.
Quinerly
@UncleEbeneezer:
Rolling Stone is all over it with a piece.
Andrew Torba is tweeting about the Hitler salute “Incredible things are happening already lmao.”
Musk did his Hitler salute TWICE. Not a one off.
Quinerly
@Betty Cracker:
I saw JoJo snatch it. He knew exactly what he was doing. Slammed it down then picked it up and crushed it. He did pretty much the same thing with a young pack rat summer of 2023.
JoJo’s got mad skills.
Riodawg
Elizabelle
Looking at the photo in the Josh Marshall post, of the techtitans who were in that church for FOTUS’s big day:
those people are NEVER going to get that stain off.
We see them. Especially ashamed for Tim Cook. Gag.
karen gail
@Gretchen: I have all of them, and when things get bad and I need a break I start with “Naked in Death” and keep going.
It lets me “live” in another world that is close to ours, there are times when I wonder if the gap between rich and poor is going to lead to Urban War.
ExPatExDem
@UncleEbeneezer: You do realize that the Zionists wanted this electoral result, yes?
Citizen Alan
To be fair, most americans, if polled, would support socialist policies until you told them that it was socialism and that the democrats supported it. We would have scandinavian style socialism in this country right now, if only there is a way to keep black people from getting it.
Citizen Alan
@UncleEbeneezer:
How do you reconcile that statement with the fact that the current leader of israel played a vital role in ensuring that trump won by doing his part to fracture the democratic coalition?
Geminid
@ExPatExDem: Who exactly do you mean by “Zionists”? My definition of a “Zionist” is: someone who believes Israel has a right to exist.
Most Jewish Americans believe that and 75% of them voted for Harris even though many opposed the policies of Israel’s government.
Most of Harris’s non-Jewish voters also believe Israel has a right to exist.. You might not, but that does not entitle you to smear other* Democrats.
* I am assuming here that you do identify as a Democrat, in fact and not just in name.
ExPatExDem
@Geminid: I’m referring to the residents of the criminal settler colony in the Levant, who favored a Trump victory by 2-1 margin, and have rewarded Netanyahu with political power for almost a quarter century.
Gloria DryGarden
@narya: so satisfying. Congratulations on your successful bread endeavor.
Gloria DryGarden
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I can only say that the jays in canyon lands national park were persistent robbers. You couldn’t leave your picnic lunch for a minute… They got my avocado.
maybe they were half urban because of the campground setting, easy pickings.
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid:
When you frame it this way, it adds a needed perspective. I hadn’t quite fully comprehended it; thank you for this excellent comprehensive summary.
Broke a lot of people’s hearts around the globe, going for this lose-lose strategy. And may have killed our democracy, too. Talk about killing more than two birds with one stone…
Geminid
@ExPatExDem: Well, at least you’ve finally laid your cards on the table.
You would have saved a lot of misunderstanding if you had done this from the beginning instead of making pragmatic electoral arguments. Harris was never going to satisfy you, because she believes in Israel’s right to exist and you do not.
Bill Arnold
@ExPatExDem:
Were you eligible and able to vote in the 2024 presidential election, but did not vote for Kamila Harris?
ExPatExDem
@Geminid: Is this supposed to be your “A-ha” moment? Israel’s alleged “right to exist” has always depended on its concurrent “right” to rob, displace, and commit violence against the indigenous people of the reason.
The former POTUS and VP strongly believed in Israel’s right to commit mass slaughter of civilians, destruction of civilian infrastructure, as well as targeted violence against aid workers, journalists, and even US citizens, in support of the erstwhile “right to exist”.
Shucks, I guess you got me.
ExPatExDem
@Bill Arnold: Oh no. I voted for her, knowing full well that she was going to lose.
Geminid
@ExPatExDem: This was no “aha” moment. I said the arguments you made that started this exchange were disingenuous.
You have a right to believe that Israel should not exist; I just think you should have been upfront about it.
brantl
Truth is they’re not entitled to nearly any of the shit they think they’re entitled to.
brantl
@Betty Cracker: I’m beginning to think that all of these people in Maga world are the reverse of Garrison Keeler‘s fictional town in Prairie home companion all the women are ugly, and all the children are below average.
Al
What I found interesting is how the phrase “Shock and Awe” became popular during one of the Iraq wars (I mean, there were so many, it’s hard to keep track). It’s a phrase used to refer to the enemy, the “bad guys”, the end of dialogue, negotiation, and peace. Why would anyone statesman want to do this except for nefarious ends?