When I say that what I’m seeing from Democrats reminds me of the time around the Iraq War, I’m talking about votes for terrible bills like the Laken Riley Act, which just passed the House with 46 Democrats voting Yea. And it is a terrible bill, mandating detention of undocumented immigrants for minor crimes. It assists the Trump Administration in its mass deportation goals, because being accused of a non-violent crime (not convicted) as minor as shoplifting is enough for detention and ultimately deportation. ICE is going to have a fucking field day with this kind of power.
Here’s AOC on the floor, showing the proper amount of anger and disgust over this:
AOC: "I want folks at home to look at what members of Congress are invested in private prisons companies, and look at the votes on this bill. It is atrocious that people are lining their pockets with private prison profits in the name of a horrific tragedy."
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) January 22, 2025 at 12:54 PM
Anyway, whenever I post about this, there’s a bunch of comments about how some of the Democrats who voted for the bill must have had a good reason. Perhaps that’s true for the Senators from Arizona. But one of the House Democrats who supported the bill was Rochester’s own Joe Morelle, my Representative in NY-25. The closest border to Rochester is the Canadian border. Immigration is not a big issue in Rochester — the crime there is generally in the inner city and generally the criminals are residents. Joe won his latest election by a landslide margin (not a Trump “landslide”, a real 60/40 landslide). This is a pretty safe seat, and it is very unlikely that Joe will have a serious primary challenger. (If he did, it would be someone to the left of him.)
The simple reason he voted for the bill is cowardice and bandwagoning. It wasn’t a leadership-encouraged vote (Jeffries voted against). It was just like a lot of the votes for the Iraq War — it seemed like a good idea at the time and Democrats were afraid of looking weak. The appearance of weakness on immigration is the analogue of the Iraq War weakness on terrorism charge. In hindsight, that war was one of the worst things to happen to this country in my lifetime. I’m afraid this broadly-written piece of legislation will be another similarly terrible thing.
As Truman said, “Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time.” There is no win for the party in general for these kinds of votes.
Steve LaBonne
It sucks, but it’s of a piece with the immigration cowardice of center-left parties in many countries.
rikyrah
No good reason to vote for this piece of shyt bill.
Period.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
@rikyrah:
Agree.
West of the Cascades
Very proud of my Congressman, Gabe Vasquez (NM-2), who voted “nay” – the district covers the southern half of New Mexico including some very red areas in SE NM. He won election in 2022 by just over 1,000 votes and was re-elected comfortably in 2024 (54-46), but NM-2 fits the swing-district profile of other Dems who capitulated. Glad he didn’t.
Michael Bersin
Meanwhile, Yvonne Reeves Chong, the Vice Chair of the Missouri Democratic Party, shows us all how it’s supposed to be done:
The times are dark
Sister Golden Bear
Another large wildfire just north of Los Angeles — it’s grown to >5,000 acres in about four hours and may have jumped Lake Castaic.
19,000+ people evacuated. The 5, one of only two major routes connecting SoCal to points north, is closed indefinitely. Real concerns the fire might jump the freeway. If it does, it could potentially move as far as Simi Valley—although I wouldn’t shed a tear if the Reagan Library burns—and/or down the Santa Paula River valley to coastal cities in Ventura County.
6% humidity and LA has only had about 1% of its normal rainfall this rainy season. The only silver lining is that the winds, while gusty, are calm enough that the aerial firefighters are out en masse.
Baud
@West of the Cascades: Send him a note!
@Michael Bersin:
I admire red state Dems.
eclare
@rikyrah:
Agree. I need to see how my rep voted.
Whew. Cohen voted nay. I need to call his office to say thank you.
KatKapCC
Glad to see my rep voted against this trash.
zhena gogolia
@Michael Bersin: Good statement.
Trollhattan
Trump’s been president what, two days? and suddenly we’ve got wolves.
Four short years, four short years, f…
Michael Bersin
@Baud:
I’ve known Yvonne for years. She’s a great person and a real badass. She means what she says.
Baud
@Trollhattan:
Be careful sticking the “Trump did that” stickers on the wolves.
KatKapCC
@Baud: To quote a FB tag group: You might as well call a hearse because I’m gonna pet that thing.
(I mean, I wouldn’t. But I imagine a lot of people would. Like those dummies who try to take selfies with bison or something.)
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Baud: @KatKapCC: LOL! Maybe we can convince the MAGAts that they’d be the perfect pet for manly man’s men. They just have to go up and pet them.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@West of the Cascades: I’ve been watching to see how Raul Grijalva would vote, because he basically represents the border of Arizona, but he’s been consistently not voting. I think he’s sick.
(Which is another issue, we have a lot of older MoCs who are not voting. 13 not voting on this bill compared to 1 Republican.)
rikyrah
The Washington Post @washingtonpost.com
President Trump is preparing to send 10,000 troops to the southern border, and Border Patrol agents have been directed to deny entry to asylum seekers if they “traveled through a country with communicable disease,” according to an official document.
According to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection briefing document obtained by The Post, the order does not list any specific disease, essentially closing the border to anyone attempting to exercise the right to seek humanitarian refuge under U.S. law.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/01/22/trump-asylum-border-troops-immigration/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bluesky
eclare
@Baud:
Hahaha…
rikyrah
I just checked. My Rep voted Nay.
Good
Baud
@rikyrah:
That’ll help with recruitment.
eclare
@Michael Bersin:
Good statement.
KatKapCC
@rikyrah: Are there countries that have no “communicable diseases” within their borders?
eclare
@Trollhattan:
Crazy!
I once dated a guy named Michael Davis. He adopted a cat and named him Jefferson, after the president. When he took the cat to the vet he found out the tradition is to use the owner’s last name as the pet’s last name. The vet called out “Jefferson Davis…”
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Yes, we’ll see a surge of white nationalists joining up.
zhena gogolia
All we had to do was go freely to the voting stations and vote. We would have functioning, sane, caring government. Now people are having to make statements about how they’ll lay down their lives. WHY? WHY? WHY?
And those fuckers who voted for him, or stayed home on the couch — they’re not paying a goddamned bit of attention to this mayhem. They’re not suffering the way we are. They don’t give a shit.
zhena gogolia
I’m just like — people live in countries that have been invaded by foreign armies, or they can’t go to the polls without being shot. We had none of that! Just goddamned laziness and apathy.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Yes, actual patriots are a minority.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Michael Bersin:
Black, woman Democrat in a blood red state telling it like it is:
As I’ve said before, we should take our queue from the base of the party, get up, dust ourselves off, say “Fuck that bum” and march forward.
kissel
I contacted Fetterman’s office via email and let them know what I thought about his vote and his capitulation to the orange turd. I have a feeling I’ll be contacting his office frequently as he has been almost entirely disappointing as my Senator.
Sister Golden Bear
@KatKapCC:
Don’t pet the fluffy cows! NPS poster.
KatKapCC
@zhena gogolia: I have a feeling I’m gonna have a version of this running through my head constantly for the next four years.
(Please Lord let it only be four.)
comrade scotts agenda of rage
The 48 Dems, some names which will familiar to the commentariat here:
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/202523
Xavier
Proud to say nobody in the New Mexico delegation voted for the bill.
Trollhattan
@eclare:
Heh. :-) File under S for “Stuff you’d have never thought of before it inevitably happens.”
zhena gogolia
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Hmm Jahana Hayes???
ETA: Mine isn’t on the list of shame.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Happy to see my new Rep Wesley Bell voted against it. :)
Ksmiami
@KatKapCC: I’m hoping it’s only one and then the grim reaper does his thang
Baud
@Xavier:
Nice.
Michael Bersin
@zhena gogolia:
It is my understanding that individuals who were/are high visibility in public life have to endure a variety of threats from right wingnuts these days.
Last Sunday I attended a dinner at the rural home of a friend who was a candidate for our state senate seat in November. He received around 27,000 votes as a vocal proponent of the Democratic Party and women’s reproductive health. He got about 30% of the vote. I had visited his home about six months ago, too.
The difference in those six months? He now has fencing around the front of his property, a heavy gate between the drive and the road, no trespassing signs, and security cameras.
He got a lot of threats during the campaign.
I suspect many others have, too.
zhena gogolia
@Ksmiami: I’ve never had this kind of nightly prayer. Well, maybe for Vladimir Vladimirovich. But nobody else. Until now.
different-church-lady
@rikyrah: So great, we’re going to have 10k people at the border going, “What the heck are supposed to be doing?”
Michael Bersin
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Yvonne is a badass.
West of the Cascades
@Baud: Great idea – done!
Percysowner
President Trump Revokes 60-Year-Old Executive Order Requiring Equal Employment Opportunity in Government Contracting And now his supporters are getting what they REALLY wanted when they voted for him.
And my Rep. Joyce Beatty voted Nay on Laken Riley, so I have to shoot a thank you to her.
Manyakitty
@zhena gogolia: enraging. Stupid. And now here we are.
different-church-lady
@rikyrah: Also: all those people who were like, “Oh he just says shit to get elected” can right the fuck off until there’s no more off to fuck.
sab
I am just focused on who the Senate approves for actual high level jobs.
Professor Bigfoot
@rikyrah: I just checked, and my rep- the usually excellent Emilia Sykes— voted “yeah.”
Gonna have to call her office tomorrow morning.
Manyakitty
@different-church-lady: and then fuck off once more, just to make sure.
frosty
@Sister Golden Bear: Wow, that is a shitty map. It’s at an angle, not straight down (like a map) and it didn’t show the roads clearly enough that I could identify I-5.
Not to disparage any of your worry about this or other fires. 1% of typical rainfall in what should be the wet season is really bad.
different-church-lady
I see civil rights have just been eliminated.
eclare
@Sister Golden Bear:
Correct animal interaction
https://youtu.be/EvptWXUJfKs?si=9h_TozyVILIk25Hp
“I ain’t messin’ with you”
dc
Once again, Teen Vogue shows what serious journalism is:
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/ice-watch-programs-immigrants-how-to-start
Matt McIrvin
A big NAY from my district (Lori Trahan), even though that guy who barks about “invaders” was all over her Facebook feed last week when she said she wasn’t supporting it, in terms that it wouldn’t do to go back on.
When the shit that will cause disasters goes down, even if you can’t stop it, you want to be against it. I don’t think it was actually a hard vote for Trahan, but it was a good one.
suzanne
@rikyrah:
Co-signed.
oldgold
Raw Story is not a great source, but this is the first story I have seen that documents agricultural work not being done as a direct consequence of Trump’s new immigration policies.
Baud
@oldgold:
Between oranges and eggs, breakfast is going to get expensive.
Baud
dc
My rep, Valerie Foushee, voted no.
different-church-lady
@oldgold: ASSIGNMENT DESK: “QUICK, FIND ME A FAMILY OF 11 AND CALCULATE HOW MUCH OJ THEY DRINK IN A WEEK!”
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@zhena gogolia:
No, Kaptur and Vindmann, at least familiar to me.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: They’re all familiar to me. Sharice Davids, Marcy Kaptur, Emila Sykes, Terry Sewell, Shomari Figures are just five of them. They all have plenty of courage, and I’m not ashamed of being in the same party as them.
Baud
different-church-lady
Welcome to day three of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.
wenchacha
I was pissed at Morelle when he shanked Joe Biden last summer, but I still voted for him. Dammit! I would like to see him primaried by someone closer to Rep. Louise Slaughter. He isn’t at all feisty .
I called his office ahead of the vote to remind him how discriminatory this will prove. He’s my Rep. They said they would pass along my concern. Dammit.
Baud
@Geminid:
I wish people felt that way about me.
schrodingers_cat
@different-church-lady: White people were bored with competence so here we are.
Nancy
I’m disappointed in Morelle, my representative. Phone call tomorrow. It appears that NY senators did not vote for the bill.
It
Old Dan and Little Ann
One of my favorite voting acts in November was not voting for Joe Morelle. Fuck that spineless prick.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Jesus wept.
Bupalos
The problem is that we do not currently have any robust Democratic immigration narrative. There has to be some kind of framework for politicians to work from. We’ve been coasting for a while on a kind of sotto voce neoliberalism that says the reason we support immigration is (essentially) because immigrants work harder at worse jobs making less money and we get to take the profits.
Now for a variety of reasons (mostly spiraling inequality, declining relative standards, and feelings of looming insecurity for most citizens) that quiet narrative isn’t really effective. And we’re not replacing it with anything. Politicians can only resist the anti-immigration narrative if another effective narrative is available. I don’t think it’s cowardice, it’s more like aimless drift. The best they can do is emphasize that the immigrants will be made to be profitable, be on a short leash, not be allowed to consume services, and remain demonstrably at the lowest tier and first subject to the hardships that are coming. Until we have a new pro-immigration narrative.
Gloria DryGarden
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet @
Baud: @KatKapCC:
LOL! Maybe we can convince the MAGAts that they’d be the perfect pet for manly man’s men. They just have to go up and pet them
This is brilliant! We need to set up a manly tourism company and start inviting select persons to come out and up their manliness. Maybe we can even make some money off them.
//s
suzanne
@Baud: I am at the store right now, and I am skipping buying eggs, because the only ones they have are $7.49 a dozen. This region is being hit hard by bird flu.
HE TOLD ME THEY WOULD BE 99 CENTS.
Denali5
I am very disappointed in my Congress person, Joe Morelle. I thought he would stand up for what is right.
Citizen Alan
@oldgold: i genuinely lol’d at this. For the most part, america’s farmers have declared themselves to be the enemies of democracy. So I don’t have a problem with ruining them by giving them exactly what they voted for.
Bupalos
@schrodingers_cat: Whites supported Harris at slightly increased rates. Hispanics fell off steeply, black men very marginally. With education and income level a through line in all these numbers.
Gloria DryGarden
@oldgold: while this is painful, and devastating, perhaps it will become widespread news, and folks will realize, so soon into F’s reign, that FAFO is real, and a pretty big bummer.
The opportunity cost of having voted in this f game show host…
Meanwhile, oranges have often been abundant at the food banks. We’ll see what changes.
scav
@Baud: Bacon should soon join eggs and oranges once they start rounding up the workers at slaughterhouses.
Baud
@scav:
And poultry products.
Sister Golden Bear
@frosty: It helps if you both zoom in and turn on the NOAA HMS Fire Detection layer which shows thermal hot spots.
However, you might find the WatchDuty map easier to understand.
But both do have the overlays for the evacuation areas, which makes it a bit harder to see the road details.
Matt McIrvin
@oldgold: This happens every fucking time, and people don’t learn. It’s kind of remarkable.
Sister Golden Bear
@oldgold: @Citizen Alan:
Thus begins the Fnding Out.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
When’s the last time the Republican base has seriously suffered in a tangible way (as opposed to in their minds) because of Republican policy? Probably the 2008 recession. It’s a large reason they have become radical. They don’t believe they have a stake in the system because they haven’t really suffered from the system failing them.
different-church-lady
@Baud:
Pandemic.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Actually, the COVID pandemic, but the problem there was that they weren’t suffering from Republican policy in their minds, they were suffering from some combination of Democratic overreach, Chinese conspiracies and Big Pharma conspiracies.
Matt McIrvin
(also, some of them didn’t learn a lesson because they were dead)
Baud
@different-church-lady:
@Matt McIrvin:
I think the bigger problem with the pandemic is that it would have been bad even with pretty good policy, so there’s no way for a lay person to appreciate how much worse it was because of Trump.
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin: The rare time they suffered more than everyone else.
Glory b
@Bupalos: I read that, for all the media coverage, black men’s Republican vote didn’t increase near as much as predicted.
But the only groups voting Dem in roughly the same numbers as usual were black women and Jews.
The “If Books Could Kill” podcast cited a researcher who said that Republican’s increases in the white vote was roughly the same as along the continuum started in the 60s, 2 or 3 percent each year, and that Trump’s increase was about the same as Romney’s.
Meaning that, as he opined, there is a post civil rights white identity emerging through the Republican party.
Another interesting piece of research indicated that people will select a party and afterwards, they end up aligning their personal beliefs with the party, rather than vice versa
Edit to add the white vote in question is the blue collar vote.
Matt McIrvin
@different-church-lady: During the first super-deadly wave when Trump was actually in office, Democrats were suffering way more than Republicans, because it was in the coastal cities and everyone was musing about how we’d have to shut down big cities and move out to the country to protect ourselves from plague.
Then, of course, the plague moved out to the country. But I think over the period that Trump was in office it was pretty much a wash. Then, of course, Republicans started going antivax, but at that point Biden was President and they could blame everything on him.
brendancalling sivr
Boyle in PA voted yea. He’s in a tough spot, his district is pretty MAGA. That’s not an excuse though. I’ll be complaining.
Baud
Click through for embedded image from the Nazi site
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
There’s no excuse to vote for this, I’m sorry. It’s a shit bill that only requires there be an accusation of lawbreaking, not a conviction. It will be abused and many will suffer
p.a.
Dying of Whiteness
They know the system is failing them. They just won’t (not can’t) see the fucking cause.
p.a.
Gabe Amo RI no. Magaziner RI no. Safe seats.
Tazj
It’s terrible that the consensus became that there was a border crisis because the Biden administration’s border policy was lax and crime was higher because of it. It seems as though many people fell for Republicans “open border” arguments and some Democrats thought it was better politics to vote for this horrible bill.
It’s strange that some of the best things I’ve read on immigration recently has come from conservative outlets. I found these via Aaron Reichin-Melnik’s Blue-sky account.
David J. Bier (Cato Institute) “The prevailing narrative is wrong. Biden didn’t cut enforcement. Biden increased it. Hot labor market beat the crackdown.”
The Manhattan Institute has an article that says “The Biden immigration surge is benefiting the United States.”
Sadly, Trump and Republicans have successfully demonized most immigrants.
MagdaInBlack
@Baud: That makes me very happy. THAT is a good man.
KatKapCC
@Baud: Oh Lord, and the woman flinched like a bomb went off and then was all “oh noes we couldn’t bleep that”. Can we please all grow up as a society and stop being so afraid of curse words?
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That bill was going to pass even if Marcy Kaptur, Sharice Davids, Emilia Sykes and Terry Sewell had voted against.
Like I said, I’m not ashamed of being in the same party as them.
Ed. If another Democrat wants to primary them over this vote, district Democrats will have their say. They’re the ones who matter, not you or me.
KatKapCC
@Baud: We love Doug.
Big Fly
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
No kidding…Isn’t Eugene Vindman, D VA, an immigrant, deplored and vilified (along with brother, Alexander) by *rump, one who voted ‘YEA’? I don’t get it.
Shalimar
I don’t know anything about Laken Riley, but I wonder how she would feel if she had known millions of people will suffer in her name.
Kayla Rudbek
@Ksmiami: the 109th Psalm, in other words?
Shalimar
@Big Fly: He’s a white guy. I hope that isn’t the explanation for Vindman’s vote, but I don’t have a lot of faith in white guys anymore.
Old School
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
There’s an excuse:
The bill was going to pass anyway, so your no vote has no effect.
Voting ‘no’ will open you to ads that say “Rep So-and-So voted against deporting murderers.”
Your ‘no’ vote primarily benefits people who can’t vote for you.
I’m happy so many Democrats still voted no.
jefft452
“generally the criminals are residents”
See
He is protecting hard working American criminals from having foreigners taking their jobs
Professor Bigfoot
@Glory b: But I was assured that if the Democrats changed their messaging they could reach those white working class voters!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Geminid:
Maybe, but them voting for it gives it bipartisan cover imo
Professor Bigfoot
@brendancalling sivr: That’s also true of Emilia Sykes.
I’m surrounded by the dumb sonsabitches.
Big Fly
@Shalimar:
Sigh…I feel the same way. It’s a sad, sad, sad, sad world.
Bupalos
@Matt McIrvin: I’m not sure America as currently economically constituted has ever gone on an anti-immigration bender.
I’m generally skeptical of hopeful FAFO narratives but if oranges and pork and chicken and dairy really do see a serious hiccup here (and reports suggest serious absenteeism by migrants today) I think we’ll see some new dynamics in short order.
I’m a little surprised if Trump really is stupid enough to fuck with the supply chain that feeds him.
Suzanne
@Shalimar: She was attacked and killed while she was out running. Which is…. more common than it should be.
Once again, the real issue is men who prey on women; immigration status is immaterial.
Bupalos
@Professor Bigfoot: the bigger problem right now relatively speaking is black and Hispanic and south Asian men. But not professors. You need to lean into that.
Big Fly
@Professor Bigfoot:
I hope someday to meet you. I like your style.
Suzanne
@Bupalos: White men remain the reddest cohort.
Another Scott
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Devil’s Advocate time:
APNews.com (from January 7):
If half of voters want something done, and you’re not in a D+20 district, then thinking about how to do something that isn’t horrible yet satisfied your constituent’s desire for action is difficult. After the November results, it’s clear that Biden’s compromise bill isn’t coming back soon. (And that had many bad features too, remember.)
Perhaps a few people who voted for it are counting on the courts to slow implementation of the worst parts, or throw the worst parts out. Dunno.
We’re a couple of days into this administration. Figuring out ways to effectively oppose, without splitting the party, is what they’re working on now. They don’t have the luxury of voting NO on everything if their voters demand action.
It quite often sucks to be in the minority in Congress. It sucks more when the electorate votes (or doesn’t) like they have the intelligence of a bag of hammers. :-/ Figuring out ways to win back the majority in a closely divided, fickle, electorate is a difficult problem.
My $0.02.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Professor Bigfoot
@Bupalos: Really?
Listen, if Trump got two more percent of Black men, it’s a thimble in the Niagra of white men.
Trying to call Black men “the problem” is emblematic of white peoples’ inability to recognize the power and function of white supremacy in their own lives, beliefs, and behaviors.
It’s bog fucking standard.
Bupalos
@Old School: I appreciate the political groundedness of this comment.
This vote really doesn’t matter, it’s just vague posturing. We lost the immigration issue when we failed to actually articulate Democratic principles and narrative. Our whole thing now is “we’ll just you wait, the excess value we were extracting from immigrants is now lost.”
Long gone from the current political calculus is any notion that the reason America is exceptional is that we are (pretty uniquely) a continuous nation of immigrants. It’s the most notable thing about the oldest democracy on the planet.
Professor Bigfoot
@Suzanne: But no, the real problem is Black men.
Excuse me while I go recover from the headache that eyeroll just caused.
Geminid
@Shalimar: This is not a “White” thing. Suhas Subramanyam, the freshman Democrat in the district next to Vindman’s, also voted for the bill. He doesn’t look very “White” to me.
Neither do Terry Sewell and Shomori Figures, the Democrats from Alabama who voted for the bill, or Jahana Hayes (CT) Lucy McBath, and Janelle Bynum (OR). All five are African American.
California Representative Derek Tran is Korean American and I believe his neighbor, David Min, is Vietnamese and they both voted for the bill.
Texas Democrats Vicente Gonzalez and Henry Cuellar are Mexican American, and Kansas Democrat Sharice Davids is is a member of. the Ho-Chunk Nation. Those three also voted for bill.
Bupalos
@Professor Bigfoot: oh I don’t think “black men” are the problem in any sense other than trend. Like the changes in black and brown men’s voting patterns is an existential problem for democracy. But individually and as an identity that you can cling to, it’s still something that politically you can use to boost your ego. Still, reading the tea leaves, better to switch to high education as your identity. South Asian and Hispanic men are right about to cross the rubicon and I wouldn’t hold my breath that black men are going to turn back. Go with the professor thing. Start lecturing about the moral depravity of the uneducated.
Suzanne
@Professor Bigfoot: I have noted here before that men of every race vote redder than women of the same race. Which indicates to me that patriarchy has cross-racial appeal.
But, like….. where is the core of the problem? White Christian patriarchy, come on down!
Big Fly
@Suzanne:
If I may: “immigration status (should be) immaterial, as should racism; sexism (by any name); and a host of other -isms with which we plague ourselves, but I’m too weary to list.
Bupalos
@Professor Bigfoot: If Harris got double that percent more black men it’s also a thimble compared to far larger number of college educated white men that supported her. Right?
Bupalos
@Suzanne: you can slice and dice it a lot of ways when you do this anti-solidarity identity nonsense. By far the most operative in terms of political dynamics in 2024 is education. Which is also negatively correlated with income stress.
because in the United States we don’t effectively educate or offer healthcare to our people generally, we consider it natural that this is a function of wealth.
Professor Bigfoot
@Bupalos: Which was grossly overwhelmed by the white men who voted against her.
Like two out of three of you.
AND WITH THAT, be pied, white man, we are *done.
Old Man Shadow
So Congress can respond and pass laws in response to a murder… they just choose not to do so in the case of the slaughter of elementary school kids and women with abusive exes or partners.
Geminid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The way I see it, “bipartisan cover” is an abstraction of little practical consequence.
But hey, you can still put these people on your list of Bad Democrats. That’s what this post is about and there will be plenty more like it, so you’ll need a big piece of paper.
I expect a lot of these Democrats will be challenged in primaries next year. That “Brand New Congress” outfit has promised as much. You may get a chance to write postcards for whoever challenges Emilia Sykes, maybe even do some phone banking.
Suzanne
@Bupalos: There only seems to be a big gap in voting behavior around education amongst white people. I have a theory about why this is so.
But, like….. I think it’s a bit disingenuous to imply that men of color lost us this election. If white men voted just slightly differently, we’d win every election in a landslide.
Bupalos
@Professor Bigfoot: KILLER! perfect response.
always make sure you plug your ears after the “I know you are but what am I.” Impervious!
Bupalos
@Suzanne: that isn’t actually true. The divide among Hispanics is even more stark, somewhat obscured by the relative education levels that are due to the way we do education by income level in the us.
different-church-lady
@Professor Bigfoot: Trust me friend, you can’t cure this one.
lowtechcyclist
@Trollhattan:
They’re eating the dogs, they’re eating the cats
Bupalos
@Suzanne: I didn’t imply “men of color lost us this election” and it’s not a kind of sentence I could ever offer. That’s solely a product of the idea that some identity group must be “to blame” and that blame is independent of and superior to unjust social realities in the United States.
Suzanne
@Bupalos: Well, I’ll have to take your word for that, because I’ve not seen anything that indicates that. I have looked at a bunch of exit poll data, which is not the best, but will have to suffice until we get better data from Pew.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: the language of illness. Interesting.
Bupalos
@Suzanne: don’t take my word for it. By any means. Go check the evidence you have at your fingertips.
Suzanne
@Bupalos: I mean, when you write “oh I don’t think “black men” are the problem in any sense other than trend. Like the changes in black and brown men’s voting patterns is an existential problem for democracy.”….. it sure seems like blame.
Matt McIrvin
@Another Scott:
Yes they do. They can vote NO and lose the election if necessary. If the voters are evil, losing the election is the only moral position.
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin:
Agree.
Many years ago, I spent months making phone calls on behalf of my Congresscritter, Harry Mitchell. Harry voted for the ACA knowing it would likely cost him his seat, and he was correct. He was replaced by the odious David Schweikert. But you know what? It’s worth it.
Bupalos
@Matt McIrvin: and also politically meaningless.
Isn’t this prioritizing moral posturing over reality?
I’d challenge the folks here that understandably want to see a different tack from their representative to describe the stance they want taken in some terms that can win politically.
because telling your rep “I want you to vote a particular way because it’s the right thing to even though it means you will lose” is a complete misunderstanding of politics. By all means call your rep but explain why and how voting the other way can win an election. Do that work in your own head. It’s actually necessary work.
RevRick
@Suzanne: White men remain the most white male supremacist group.
It’s a mental illness that afflicts all of us in our society, but the majority of white guys are okay with that sickness, because of the status and privilege it brings.
I confess to being a white male supremacist in repentance, though I stumble sometimes.
Bupalos
@Suzanne: well, it isn’t. It’s the causal difference between 2020 and 2024. The idea that causal difference expressed in identity terms is equivalent to valid blame is something that makes sense to me within the demographics-as-destiny mindset. But that’s an impoverished and discredited mindset. Which I don’t share. Frankly, it’s impossible to even conceive of “white men” or “south Asian men” as an entity, because they aren’t. It’s a flight of fancy where you write in one face and one character to supplant an incomprehensible multiplicity.
saying “I blame black men” is just frankly moronic. Every bit as stupid as the mob attacking cinna the poet.
tam1MI
The Tonya Harding Democrats voted almost as a body for this appalling bill.
The Democratic Party throws Joe Biden out on his ear and keeps these spineless, useless, feckless wastes of skin.
And we wonder why we lose.
Jackie
@Baud:
Time for those “Thanks Trump” and “Trump Did That” stickers.
Another Scott
@tam1MI: OTOH, … Gazette.com (from January 10):
Sounds like Biden wasn’t convinced that the bill was irredeemable, or at least wasn’t willing to underbus Democrats who were going to vote for it for whatever reasons.
Ripping our opposition party apart this early – 2 days into this administration – is not the way to have a unified, strong, front for the next 2-4 years. We are going to have disagreements.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Geminid
@tam1MI: I guess you are alleging that the Democrats that called for Biden to step aside are almost all on the list of 46 Democrats voting for the bill.
That is not so. I can name four Democrats right off the top my head who voted against the bill but also called for Biden to step aside. I bet there were more, too.
There are some among the 46 “Yea” voters who also called for Biden to step aside, but what about the rest of them? If you care so much, break this list down and name names. It won’t be that hard to back up your claim if it’s true. I’ll even help you.
But I suspect it’s not true, and that you are using guilt-by-association tactics to drag other people into your vendetta; a sort of opportunistic smear-merchantry.
tam1MI
This has been mentioned before on this blog, but the Dems really need to master the art of voting “present” on stuff like this…
“Remember that vote for the Iraq War? How’d that turn out for you?”
tam1MI
Here’s the list of the Dems who called for Biden to step aside. See for yourself.
Geminid
@tam1MI: Ok. Give me a few minutes.
chemiclord
“Cowardice” is one way of putting it.
I’d say being “tough” on immigration is one topic in which the overwhelming majority of Americans genuinely leans hard right on.
And it’s not just America. When I say the USA has arguably the most liberal immigration policy in the developed world, I’m not saying that as a compliment to the USA, but to highlight how atrociously awful the “First World” is in regards to immigration.
MinuteMan
In 2026 we need a bodacious set of electoral bloodbaths: the first round early in the year to boot out the “Democratic” pols who are unfit and a second round in November to rid us of MAGAts, all up and down the ballot.
Geminid
@Geminid: I blew up my response when I was most of the way through. So it will take more minutes.
@tam1MI:
Geminid
@tam1MI
Thank you for the list. I’m sorry I got so sharp earlier. I will try to explain why I did below.
So, there were 34 House Democrats on the list you provided me, who called for Joe Biden to step aside last July. Five did not vote on the Laken Riley Act. That would be: Earl Blumenauer (Retired), Adam Schiff (Senator), and Raul Grijalva, Brittany Pettersen and Brad Schneider (Did Not Vote).
Eight of these Democrats are on the List of Shame linked to at #33; that is, they voted for the Laken Riley Act. That would be: Jim Costa, Angie Craig, Gregg Landsman, Mike Levin, Hilary Scholten, Eric Sorenson, Gregg Stanton and Joe Morrelle.
Twenty one voted against the Laken Riley Act: Ed Case, Sean Casten, Kathy Castor, Lloyd Doggett, Chuy Garcia, Mark Pocan, Jim Himes, Zoe Lofgren, Betsy McCollum, Morgan McGarvey, Joe Morrelle, Seth Moulton, Jerry Nadler, Scott Peters, Mike Quigley, Pat Ryan, Mikie Sherrill, Adam Smith, Mark Takano, Gabe Vasquez, and Mark Veasey.
So now I’ll try explain why I got so sharp with you.
This past election delivered a severe shock to Democrats here and elsewhere. And there is a common impulse among communities that receive severe external shocks; that is, to identify and hunt down the Enemy Within.
This phenomenon can be seen throughout recorded history and all over the world, and I saw it here last July after Joe Biden’s problematic debate performance. That’s when you made your enemy list.
You’re not the only one making lists. The vote discussed here tonight is one of many Congressional Democrats will take during this Congress, and some people will try to make every one of them an occasion to expand their enemy list and persuade others to share it. This plays into and amplifies the spirit of resentment and contempt that many already hold toward towards elected Democrats as a class.
Whether this is being done intentionally or not, it’s destructive and demoralizing. It’s also a distraction from the most important vote of all, and that is the one next year when US voters will elect the next Congress. That’s the vote I really care about.
There will be votes this Congress where a unanimous Democratic caucus can make a real difference and I’ll care about those, but this wasn’t one of them.
So I will push back against efforts to “dirty up” Democrats like Sharice Davids, Terry Sewell, Marcy Kaptur and Emilia Sykes. I don’t want to get angry about it and I’ll try not to be. But I feel like I’m being encouraged to be angry. The problem is: my anger is not focused on the intended targets.
But thank you again for forwarding that list. You didn’t have to, and I appreciate it..
tam1MI
@Geminid: Thank you for the thoughtful response.
Kosh III
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Maybe we can convince the MAGAts that they’d be the perfect pet for manly man’s men. They just have to go up and pet them.
Cull the herd! Improve the gene pool
Kosh III
@Baud: And poultry products.
Yeah, Perdue just announced the closing of a chicken factory in Monterey Tn. 433 folks out of work in a town of 2800 where it was the only real option of work. Almost 1/3 of the town is Hispanic.
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/its-going-to-hurt-the-town-of-monterey-longtime-perdue-employee-reacts-to-chicken-processing-plant-closure
Ryan
Worry about looking weak in front of Trump, not your imagined constituency.