I’ve been reading a lot about divination in the ancient world this past week, so I was probably primed to overreact to this crow people-watching in my local Sainsbury’s this morning:
Of all the fuckery that’s kicked off since this week began, the kneecapping of the NIH has absolutely floored me. My immediate thoughts fall under two headings.
One: Wouldn’t the pharma industry have a strong rationale — and the pools of cash necessary — to nip this shit in the bud? It’s my impression that they rely on taxpayer-funded research. Maybe the cost savings from deregulation outweigh the costs incurred when the government is no longer picking up the tab for the research? I dunno; I know quite a few of you would be able to speak in a more informed way about this.
Two: A savvy UK prime minister would recognise the golden opportunity for life science recruitment inherent in this situation —an opportunity to poach scientists on a scale not seen since the 1930s. He or she would be throwing cash at various Russel Group universities to build more lab space and start pushing targeted Google ads to people in North Carolina’s research triangle and similar places. As a professional kopyriter, I’ll even throw in a free headline for the banners: COME TO BRITAIN IF YOU WANT TO LIVE.
Doubt Sir Keir will think of that, though. He has already pushed all the chips for the Labour government’s growth strategy into the lap of Open AI, et. al., with a big, flashy initiative to make the UK the world’s leader in AI science. From the Guardian, just last week:
“Under the 50-point AI action plan, an area of Oxfordshire near the headquarters of the UK Atomic Energy Authority at Culham will be designated the first AI growth zone. It will have fast-tracked planning arrangements for data centres as the government seeks to reposition Britain as a place where AI innovators believe they can build trillion-pound companies. Further zones will be created in as-yet-unnamed “de-industrialised areas of the country with access to power”.
Multibillion-pound contracts will be signed to build the new public “compute” capacity – the microchips, processing units, memory and cabling that physically enable AI. There will also be a new “supercomputer”, which the government boasts will have sufficient AI power to play itself at chess half a million times a second.”
I am sure all the teachers and NHS workers who have been running on fumes of fumes since 2020 will appreciate having an AI supercomputer that plays chess 500,000 times per second.
I despair.
This is an open thread, so talk about whatever you like. Given the image that accompanies this post, I would love to read your stories of Animals Where They Shouldn’t Be, though.
Baud
At least your AI will run on greener electricity than our AI.
Rose Judson
@Baud: One hopes!
Steve LaBonne
I don’t know what Big Pharma can or will do, I just know that my sister and many other distinguished, productive scientists are despondent.
John S.
I think the winner this week has to be the coyote that was hiding in the produce section at an Aldi in Chicago.
Link
Baud
@Rose Judson:
I keep reading that UK has done a good job with renewables.
dm
Climate scientists have been preparing for a similar eventuality. I’m surprised they hit NIH first.
Steve LaBonne
Tulip mania, South Sea Bubble… AI.
Lobo
Is it 2028 yet?
Steve LaBonne
@dm: Revenge for Fauci. Trump is a mobster, everything is personal vendettas.
Rose Judson
@Steve LaBonne: I can only imagine. (Your sister’s work is super-impressive, judging from her Wiki page.)
I messaged a few of my cousins who are early- or mid-career researchers in biomedicine and only one replied back.
His message was just a row of skull emojis.
Kosh III
“UK the world’s leader in AI science.”
Skynet will thank you first before moving to the rest of the globe. .
Steve LaBonne
@Rose Judson: There is a lot of heavy drinking happening right now.
ArchTeryx
@dm: It was the NIH that sunk Trump in 2020… not because they ever aimed to, but because they reported reality without a Kommissar there to okay any communication with the outside. Reality has a liberal bias. So… it had to go.
NotMax
Do moon bears count?
:)
Peke Daddy
The UK? How about China?
Rose Judson
@Peke Daddy: You have spotted the other flaw in Labour’s clever plan, alas.
azlib
My biggest worry is we will be heading into another pandemic with perhaps Bird Flu and this time the NIH will not have a Fauci involved. As they say deja vu all over again.
TBone
I only have an Animal Where He Should Be story today!
Noah got into his cat carrier in the vet exam room voluntarily for the first time in his life today: “LFG MOM”
When he got home he purred nonstop for 60 minutes, snuggled his daddy, then followed me around to keep me in sight, sniffed everything, rubbed his scent in his favorite corners, and finally needed a little help getting under his favorite quilt for a nap. He is sleeping peacefully. I, however, am having a helluva time working out which meds are given at which times with his food at which times, which includes setting a 2am alarm clock for tube feeding! At least I don’t have to do any meds in the middle of the night!
HE’S BACK! My heart is full and I want to thank everyone who helped us get through this awful saga!
ProfDamatu
In addition to the obvious, the cancellation of the upcoming round of NIH grant reviews and such is going to be disastrous to many research universities, which are often reliant on those grants for big parts of their budgets. On the human scale – there will likely be tons of postdocs who lose their jobs (which tend to be grant funded), and let’s also not forget about the grant-paid scientists who are not U.S. citizens; they are likely to have to leave the country.
My institution isn’t likely to be hugely affected by this; we don’t have much in the way of NIH-funded research. But I think we’re all holding our breath waiting to see if something similar is done to the NSF. If so, then we’ll be sending out those rows of skull emojis too.
Tom Levenson
@azlib: Zoonosis doesn’t care that Trump and his Trumpzis don’t believe in viruses.
Leto
@ArchTeryx: well now that every agency will have a DOGE attorney, and IT infrastructure, in it, we now have our Kommissars. I know it hasn’t been implemented yet, but just a general “ffs!” for now.
Rose Judson
@TBone: This is such a sweet story. I’m glad he’s okay. <3
TBone
@Rose Judson: thank you Rose, we are SO grateful and it was worth every penny (that’s a LOT of pennies hahahaha)! Healthcare should be a “living creature universal right” for life! I am so sorry to read about the UK travails, and extend my heart to yours across the ocean, hopeful that we can hold hands and get through these interesting times all together!
ArchTeryx
Now here’s where I come in and probably get myself pied by at least some, many many, people.
I’m a bitter old ex-biomedical scientist who was forced from the field by bigotry toward my disabilities, not having the “right” connections, and the general trend in the field toward only allowing superstars to even start a career in it. Spite is not just for fascists. Right before the COVID lockdowns, Wadsworth Center, New York State’s DOH research arm, was looking for people. I interviewed. They not only wanted me, a PhD in molecular virology studying the same types of viruses as COVID as a bench test reader, they wanted to pay me half salary for 3 years. I terminated the interview myself.
The university community has been deeply, deeply unserious about biomedical research for DECADES. They just keep stacking up the deans and provosts making quarter million dollar salaries and taking 60-75% of R01 NIH grants, while expecting scientists to live on the rest AND do all the research on it. Now combine that with the fact more, and more, and more R01s were going to M.D.s, not Ph.D.s trained to research, simply because the M.D.s had more money, and thus more lobbying power. They took their grift and hired Ph.D.s as staff to do their research for them, at a much lower salary than market rate of course.
My initial reaction is BURN, MOTHERFUCKER, BURN! You built this. Now live in it.
Some of those deans might actually have to cut their salaries, or *gasp* lose their jobs, now that R01s aren’t just free money any more! And what about all those rich Big Pharma corps, poor babies, that won’t have state-sponsored research to free-ride off of?
But at the same time, I really, REALLY do not want political Kommissars reading every paper draft to see if it meets with the Orange God-King’s approval. Particularly not at the NIH itself. That’s how Stalin got Lysenkoism, the death of all his genetic expertise, and a famine that killed 10 million Russians. And COVID was just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to pandemics. It’s fatality rate was 3-5% or so last I checked. What happens when a pandemic hits that has a 25% fatality rate?
As much as it would give me great pleasure to watch the entire biomedical edifice burn to the ground and take all the arrogant “superstars,” big-club members, and useless-teat administrators with it, the collateral damage would just be too high.
trollhattan
FEMA also under intense cannon fire.
Idiocracy beginning to look excessively optimistic.
Steve LaBonne
@azlib: And this time we won’t be able to get vaccinated.
Booger
Don’t threaten me with a good time…
NotMax
@Booger
27% or bust.
//
bluefoot
I don’t think pharma has sufficient cash to make up the shortfall in NIH funds, unfortunately. Plus the NIH funds a lot more broadly than biology that would be of interest to drug development. Universities also take a cut (in some cases a substantial cut) of grant money for overhead, etc. I would expect the universities with big endowments to crack those open to retain science.
The new administration appear to have absolutely no understanding of soft power. The US has substantial soft power because of our health & science research and innovation, participation in WHO, etc etc. All the things they are seeking to destroy. It will only diminish the US and its power, which seems counter to what they want.
Someone told me earlier that FFOTUS has pulled Dr. Fauci’s security detail. I know in the scheme of things going on it’s small, but JFC.
Meanwhile, Southern California burns and the federal government will just let it all fall apart. I told people before the election he would do this, considering what he had done during 2020 and seizing PPE and other medical equipment from blue states. But I really, really hate being right in this instance.
AndyG
It’s a nice idea, but the impact of Brexit on UK science has been…not good, so they would have to shovel a boatload of cash at US scientists to make it worth it. And I say that as a British-born scientist who has worked in the US for over 30 years…..
ArchTeryx
@Booger: That’s Armageddon. You lose 1 out of every 4 people that get it, the health care infrastructure almost immediately collapses, followed by most of those little things like shipping, food deliveries, garbage collection and basic utilities that we all depend on for civilization. At that point, it’s Mad Max time – especially with a fucking authoitarian tyrant at the wheel.
Go watch the movie Contagion if you want to see what the optimistic scenario is for a pandemic that devastating. COVID was a mouse fart compared to the fictional MIRV (and many real diseases) and it still shut the world down. A lot of the scenes from that movie could have been taken straight the hell out of the COVID pandemic and it predated it by a decade.
Rose Judson
@bluefoot: To clarify: I didn’t mean that pharma would use their cash replace the research. I meant they’d use their cash to lobby to get this stopped somehow. Strongarming legislators. That kind of thing.
Steve LaBonne
@bluefoot: If Trump were getting actual detailed marching orders from the Russian FSB on how to bring this country to its knees, would things look any different?
Steve LaBonne
@trollhattan: Camacho >>> Trump.
bluefoot
@Rose Judson: Right now it’s looking like most of the lobby & policy people in pharma are trying to stop the FDA from being gutted. But the announcement re the NIH is only 36 hours old, so it’s still early.
Barney
It was Starmer saying his idea “mainlines AI into the veins” of the UK that was really bizarre. Sure, why not compare your plan with dangerous drug-taking? Or remind people of the whacky “vaccines are injecting nanobots into our blood” conspiracy theory? This is all just great PR, honest.
bluefoot
In Animals Where They Shouldn’t Be: I once had a pigeon fall out of the sky at my feet, dead. No idea why, how it died or anything. Just plop onto the sidewalk in front of me. Talk about portents…. Nothing bad happened afterwards, though.
Rose Judson
@Barney: As a retail politician, he’s a terrific human rights lawyer.
Steve LaBonne
@Rose Judson: As far as I can tell from this side of the pond, as a politician tout court, and as an executive.
hells littlest angel
Those pools of cash may be the point. A contribution to the post-inauguration fund will open a lot of doors.
sab
Big Pharma has already been moving offshore. Our younger employee types are too expensive because they have student loans to pay off.
TKH
All these announcements still have stench of fresh cow dung on them. Nobody knows whether there is any long- or medium term agenda behind these EOs. So drinking heavily is the correct response for the moment. It is premature to think about moving your lab. I have done the moving twice in my life and it was twice too many. It’s incredibly disruptive for your students and for the projects. And getting the money transferred from one institution to another is another ball of
waxcryptonite. If Harvard calls, they take care of it. Any other place, you are on your own.And from what I understand, the administration of universities in the UK is even more “professionalized” than in the US, meaning turned over to business types rather than academics. I am not sure that’s the direction I would want to migrate. Luckily, I am blissfully retired.
LAC
@TBone: YAY!! Thank you for the update!
Gloria DryGarden
@TBone: so awesome. Oh the gladness of heart.
Chief Oshkosh
@TBone: Great news! Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
chopper
i assume the “long-life milk” on the sign refers to some sort of magic milk you brits have that keeps you young and healthy
Chief Oshkosh
@bluefoot:
Hahahaha! Never going to happen. The first to get paid from endowments are the bosses of the people who manage the endowments. The second to paid from endowments are the people who manage the endowments. The third to get paid are the people who work directly for one or both of the first two groups. Most universities with large general endowments probably don’t even remember HOW to pay biomedical research faculty from those endowments.
cintibud
@TBone: I rarely post but I am so happy to hear that Noah has returned home!
Jackie
Day 5…
I don’t know how I’m going to handle a month of this First Felon’s presidency, much less four years.
ArchTeryx
@Chief Oshkosh: That’s the funniest thing I read all day. Academia leads pretty much every other sector in our economy, government included, in corruption, glad-handing and self-dealing. Tier One universities these days are little more than hedge funds masquerading as educational edificies. Many of them will turf out every single scientist before they fire one dean.
bluefoot
@Chief Oshkosh:
I know, but I can dream. I mean, what the hell else is Harvard or Stanford going to do with those endowments besides sit on them like Smaug with gold? I know this came up during 2020-2021 – if they weren’t going to use the endowments to help students and staff during the pandemic when schools were closed, what good are they? Private universities are investment firms with a fig leaf of “education” and research attached.
ArchTeryx
@bluefoot: Pay their administrators with the investment proceeds. That’s all they care to do these days.
Citizen Alan
@Kosh III: i almost wish it would lead to skynet, because the thought of living in the skynet universe would not be as depressing to me as living in the idiocracy universe. The idiocracy will not come about because dumb people are outbreeding smart people as mike judge stupidly predicted. It will come about because a systematic plan by wealthy elites to destroy public education for their own pecuniary benefits. The embrace of a I is merely the final step, because, in the future, even intelligent self motivated people who want to learn will not be able to, because all research avenues will be routed through computer programs that unquestioningly believe Onion headlines to be true.
sab
There is a reason I don’t take my cat to the grocery. She is great at picking fish, but coyotes are always a risk.
Chris Johnson
@Steve LaBonne: Exactly. That’s literally what it is. A step beyond stealing docs for Putin, now.
You guys are missing a point. Trump will withhold all aid FROM RED STATES as well. Disband FEMA (more commonly called upon by red states), make up some bullshit. Blue states are substantially more able to take care of themselves than red states. He’s kneecapping ALL the states, knowing it will hurt red states more.
It’s just war. There are no ‘good’ states, and certainly no states he likes. That’s over. It’s gone. He is NOT going to pander to red states and punish blue. It’s just maximum damage as fast as possible, across the board.
Parfigliano
@Jackie: Bet foreign aid to Israel still flows like it’s being shot out a firehose
artem1s
this is flat out misinformation. NIH grants have salary caps. If the PI is one of those quarter million dollar salaries the universities have to cover the cap gap out of discretionary dollars – anything above the cap. you know this.
No one is making HUGE salaries just from NIH or NSF federal grants. It’s bullshit exactly like the conspiracy theories about climatologist making up global warming so they rake in huge dollars. No matter how many grants the PI has, they can’t budget more than their annual base pay for their salary and only up to the NIH cap. A year or two ago the cap was still under $200K.
Also, deans aren’t going to have more than 1-2% effort IF ANY on an R01. 1% effort on an NIH R01 would only cover about $21K of their HUGE salaries. That’s why deans rarely and provost are NEVER the contact/lead PI’s on a grant. There’s no upside for the school to put a Dean on a grant. department heads and senior faculty rarely have more than 10% on their proposals. Most of the salaries in the grants are budgeted for junior faculty, postdocs, and lab staff. I’ve never seen a Provost on an R01 budget. MDs are included in clinical trials because the PHDs PI’s need someone to recruit the participants/patients. And MDs rain money by covering their cap gap cost share with their clinical practices. The bulk of their pay isn’t from federal grants.
Postdoc fellow salaries are also dictated by NIH caps and the equity labor laws mean Research Associates and Scientist FTEs salaries also conform to the Kirschstein levels of pay. But you know that too don’t you. No one continues to get NIH funding by being a superstar. That shit is driven by pharma led clinical trials and donors wanting to pal around with assholes like Dr. Oz.
Steve LaBonne
@Parfigliano: You win that bet. Also military aid to Egypt.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@TBone: yes, cats realize the only way out of the vet’s office is the way they got in: the carrier. This reminds me of the first time my husband went with me to a vet appointment. As always, getting his kitty boy into the carrier at home was a strong-arm struggle (altho quick – we’re not novices at this), and then the cat had to be dragged out of the carrier at the vet’s. But he eagerly went into the carrier again when his exam was over. My husband was astonished. LO
ETA So glad your boy is happy at home and doing well
prostratedragon
Animals where they shouldn’t be: This little bird was a regular for many months at Northwestern Medical, mostly in the second floor food court.
Kayla Rudbek
@Steve LaBonne: not in my arrogant opinion.
Justadoc
I work with a lot of researchers. Big time people. I mean world famous! You’d probably recognize some of their names.
Grant notices for institutional training awards all include sections on asking the Principal Investigator(s) to think of diversity when choosing trainees. They are asked to provide a plan for increasing diversity on their training grants. All of that will go away, I think.
Here’s the thing. All of these people know the importance of increasing diversity in MDs, PhDs, and nurses. They know women, AAs, and other under represented groups need to have opportunities for a variety of really good reasons. All of the trainees on these grants are the best of the best. I know. I’ve been reviewing and administering these grants for 12 years, now. They don’t all have to be white men any more than they all have to be women, AAs, etc. There are no quotas. But when they find a qualified person from an under represented group, they try to give them an opportunity. One that 10-20 years ago they wouldn’t have gotten. It pays. I work with people who got these opportunities and are now respected, and even world famous researchers.
It pays. So, even if the requirements go away, I’m not sure anything will change.
Rose Judson
@Justadoc: Thanks for your comment! I hope you’re right that nothing will change. I have a healthcare ed client that has commissioned reams of copy from me on the necessity of improving healthcare provider diversity to address disparities of care and I can’t imagine that doesn’t extend to the clinical research behind the care, too. Good luck.
PAM Dirac
@ArchTeryx:
Not much of a free ride. With Bayh-Dole a lot of universities think they can make big bucks off their taxpayer supported research. They are mostly wrong, but in the few cases they are right, they make pharma pay through the nose Here’s an example of Emory University getting paid over half a billion dollars for a drug. Note that none of this money goes back to the taxpayer and there was nothing stopping Emory from taking less money in exchange for lower drug prices. Even the un-patentable broad, informational research has limited utility because it has at best about a 50/50 chance of being reproducible, and an even smaller chance of being relevant outside the very specific conditions of the experiments. Not that the universities worry about any of this as long as the grant money keeps coming in. I spent a couple of decades in a government program that assisted both academic and pharma in cancer drug discovery and development. I don’t think my opinion of academic science is as low as yours, but it is much closer to yours than most of the jackals and it is based on direct experience.