It probably won’t surprise you that RFK Jr., along with Tulsi Gabbard, are among the few Trump nominees who might actually not get confirmed. But I’m told that one senator who Democratic senators and health care advocates have real concerns about is none other than Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI). To be clear, Whitehouse isn’t confirmed as voting for Kennedy. But he appears to be actively considering it. (Ed Note: WTF?)
Why? I’m told that there appear to be two reasons: One is that Whitehouse and Kennedy are personal friends. They were law school roommates at UVA and that seems to have been the beginning of a lifelong friendship. There are also specific issues with Rhode Island’s health care system that apparently need regulatory flexibility from HHS. That seems to be a real issue. But it hasn’t been enough of an issue to shift the state’s senior senator, Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI), who remains firmly opposed to Kennedy’s nomination.
Whitehouse isn’t the only Democratic senator not firmly locked down. There are also concerns about John Fetterman (D-PA) and Bernie Sanders (I-VT). But observers seem fairly confident that both will oppose Kennedy.
Josh goes on to point out the obvious corrosive nature of having even one Democratic vote on the resolve of Republican fence-sitters.
The title of the post is not a reference to a stinky fart (sorry, wish it was!) but rather that Whitehouse was the guy everyone thought was silently opposed to ending the filibuster, but letting Sinema and Manchin do all the talking.
As for Fetterman and Bernie, first Fetterman. That guy seems to have lost his mind, and I don’t have a sophisticated explanation, but I do have what I think is a reality-based one: the shock and awe of seeing his colleague Bob Casey lose a tight race has made him think that being a Republican-lite is the way to go. As usual, I think that’s a losing strategy.
I’d say that Bernie is Junior-curious because of residual boomer hippie woo, probably, but who knows.
If you need any more evidence that “it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it”, it’s the notion that being law school buddies would outweigh a no vote on this wackaloon’s nomination. If you live in Rhode Island, call Whitehouse’s office immediately and tell him to oppose his child-killing college roommate. It’s also worth calling Bernie’s office if you live in Vermont, and Fetterman’s if you’re from PA.
Baud
People should always feel free to call, but I’m not getting bent out of shape about unsourced rumors.
ETA: Started seeing that with Blue sky peeps assuming this was basically a fine deal. Not here.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Normally I don’t pay much attention to rumors, but Marshall is a pretty level-headed guy who seems to have a good nose for what’s going on. It’s best to have it out there so pressure can be put on Whitehouse.
Ken B
Another thing I’ve been wondering about, they some people’s personalities change after a stroke.
Fetterman has always been more conservative than a lot of the folks here (including me) but he seems more conservative than he was, and it seems that started before Casey lost.
Baud
Agree on Fetterman. I think Bernie is seduced by the supposedly anti-corporate of RFK. That said, I’d be surprised if he voted to confirm because it’s such a visible vote.
hrprogressive
The mantra from here on out:
“It’s a big club, and we ain’t in it”.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
RFK hasn’t even had his committee hearing yet, I think.
Maybe someone else is just trying to put pressure on him out of caution in light of his personal relationship to RFK
Gin & Tonic
I live in RI, just called the Providence office. To his credit, staffer picked up on first ring. I stated my piece, and staffer said their phones have been lit up all day, both in RI and in DC, with similar sentiments. Took pains to say that these reports are rumors, and the Senator has not taken any position. Cordial, if brief, conversation.
Baud
Another possibility is that Whitehouse out this out there so he could tell RFK that he had to vote against him because of the political pressure, to the extent they do have a personal relationship.
Ohio Mom
@Gin & Tonic: I like to think that every conversation we have with those young interns who answer the phones contributes to their education in some small way.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Gin & Tonic: Good work! It’s almost like you deserve a cocktail.
I like that the phones have been lit up all day. These guys need to know what their supporters think of RFK Jr rather than whatever broken DC brain nonsense they might believe.
Suzanne
I think you’re right. Most of these questions are easily answered if one “follows the money”. I also agree that it’s a strategy with an expiration date. But, like, it can work for a while, in certain environments. Sinema grew her political career when AZ was redder than it is now, and she did that by playing this game. She probably could have kept her seat at least one more term if she had just been somewhat less flagrant about shitting the bed. There seems to be this idea that she hoodwinked the AZ Democratic Party. She didn’t. She was just the best of bad options.
Steve LaBonne
@Gin & Tonic: Whitehouse can end the rumors at any moment.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Baud: Christ, dude, you are the anti-Occam’s Razor, searching around for the most complicated explanation possible.
Isn’t the most likely explanation that some sources in Whitehouse’s staff or among his confidantes have heard him say some worrisome things about RFK Jr and have leaked it to reputable Democrat-friendly media outlets like TPM?
Seems pretty obvious to me. But I guess the possibility that the reputation of a very mediocre Democratic Senator might somehow be besmirched is waaaaay more important than the possibility that he’ll vote for a child killer.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
I hope he votes the right way, but I’m don’t want to endorse the precedent that Dems should be required to immediately respond to media rumors. That would be used against us more than it helps us.
Baud
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Everything is speculation here. If you want limit the discussion, then say so in your post.
Gin & Tonic
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Not cocktail hour here yet.
Chris Johnson
If Bernie votes for ANY of these fuckers he’s dead to me. Forever. I’ll write in ‘Wilmer’ instead of him if it comes to that.
We shall see. Since getting used by Russia in his prez run he straightened out to a large extent. Supported Clinton, supported Biden, has not done more than run his mouth about billionaires and the working class, and that’s Bernie.
He has to stand against ALL these people or he’s fuckin’ dead to me.
Baud
@Chris Johnson:
I think we’re only supposed to attack Whitehouse in this thread.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Baud:
I didn’t say anything about limiting discussion, stop behaving like a troll by treating pushback like it is some sort of restraint on your free speech.
There’s a big difference between baseless speculation — which you are engaging in — and a sourced rumor. Both are forms of speculation, not the same thing at all.
It’s bloody obvious that you can’t tolerate any criticism of any Democrat (except Progressive ones, of course) and repeatedly and persistently push back on it no matter if there’s basis to, or not.
Baud
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
There’s no source identified, and the source is engaged in speculation per the reporting. Just put caveats in your post if you want to police the comments. Or pie me.
brendancalling
I’m a PA voter who canvassed for Fetterman, and objected angrily to Mehmet Oz’s suggestion his stroke incapacitated him. Today? IANAD, but maybe Oz had a point. The dude is seriously fucking up, and voters are pissed.
Also, he hasn’t had a town hall in forever (likely because he doesn’t want to hear from his constituents who are upset with him). Small man, big mouth.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: If the rumor is that they are about to turn their coats, I am damned well on board with that precedent. After the vote happens is too late. As I said, he knows how to stop the rumor in its tracks if he wants to. Until and unless he does, keep the pressure on.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
Sure. I didn’t say not to call. All I said was that I don’t want our side to jump whenever someone says boo.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Baud:
Again, you’re trolling by calling my pushback “policing the comments”. I’m not the police. I’m just pushing back on your statements here, which I think are out of line, and also identifying what I consider trollish behavior.
I don’t pie anyone, btw, never have, never will.
randy khan
I have to say that RFK, Jr.’s hard turn to the nutty would make me reconsider any friendship with him and any loyalty such a friendship might engender on matters other than getting him help.
Steve LaBonne
@randy khan: Club, we’re not in it.
Baud
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Gotcha!
As long as I’m allowed to comment here, I’ll speak my mind. I’ll respect any limits you put into your post.
Hildebrand
@Baud: Seems that a reflexive shitting on of Democrats is the thing that all the cool kids are doing. Bluesky is flooded with this kind of ‘Democrats won’t do anything right’ attitude. Just because Trump jumps at every last thing doesn’t mean it’s actually a brilliant strategy.
Yes, we need to be proactive, but that doesn’t mean we need to be reactionary.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Ken B:
Another resident-of-PA commenter here pointed out that even if Fetterman’s actions reek of “gee, we didn’t see that coming”, even if he turns into the equivalent of Joe Mansion in shittier clothing, he’s still a (D) and presumably will (mostly) do the right things when called upon to do so. And yeah, if he runs for reelection as an (R)-Lite candidate, he’ll lose. Hell, he might lose anyway (like Mansion would have, like Tester did, etc) but of course that siren song of “if I move to the right, it’ll help me” strategy that so many Dems adopt, and lose, must be potent stuff to snort.
I’m not defending him by any stretch but I can hold my nose with the best Dems around having 50+ years of real life experience doing it.
Kosh III
I just emailed Senator Airhead…er…. Blackburn to oppose Kennedy. Not that she gives a frak.
I am next contacting Sen. Hagerty, again, not that he gives a frak.
John S.
@Hildebrand:
Yes, because 1) any and all forms of criticism constitute “shitting on” and 2) the criticism itself is always performative or being done for acceptance. 🙄
trollhattan
@Baud:
“Supposedly” seems the correct emphasis. RFK Jr disdains some corporations and virtually humps others. He is a man of mystery, starting with how does he even get out of bed?
BwaaaainWorrrm
Steve LaBonne
Anyone who pays attention to my comments knows that I am not in favor of reflexive Democrat-bashing. But Robert the Lesser is such a terrible and dangerous nominee that no Democratic Senator should be hesitating for one second about opposing him. And vocal opposition, with receipts, is important for denying bipartisan cover to Republicans who might be wavering. Whitehouse is doing harm simply by refusing to show his hand, even if he ultimately votes the right way.
MattF
Re: Whitehouse. He could well be the deciding vote. And the deciding vote is the one on the margin, for whatever reason. Kennedy (and/or Gabbard) would be a disaster, and I’d assume, FWIW, that Whitehouse knows that.
Baud
In case there is some confusion, I have no idea whether Whitehouse (or Fetterman or Sanders) will do the right thing.
JaySinWA
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
@Baud:
Gentlemen,
please, no fighting. You can’t fight in here. This is the War RoomEdited to fix quote.
rikyrah
Chicano Marine![]()
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(@elchicanomarine) posted at 3:18 PM on Thu, Jan 23, 2025:
The Trump administration is arguing IN COURT that Native Americans r not Citizens bc they are beholden to their tribes before the US, and if they aren’t citizens, children of undocumented parents definitely are not…
Hey dumb fucks, The Navajo Code Talkers would like a word.
https://t.co/bfrTxc0nRC
(https://x.com/elchicanomarine/status/1882538315423093078?s=03)
Baud
@MattF:
You think three Republicans will vote against?
MattF
@Baud: McConnell, of course, is a snake, but he’s got extra sensitivities on vaccine issues. We shall see. And soon.
p.a.
Just emailed Whitehouse.
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/democrats-and-the-ruthless-aggression
Fair Economist
Purity ponyism is the express road to fascism. What ever flaw Fetterman or Sanders or Whitehouse have, we should still support them over Republicans. Primarying them is fine, of course.
John S.
@Baud:
There are currently no Republicans who have come out against RFK Jr. Just a handful who have expressed Collins-esque “concern” over his positions.
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: Americans can’t count on Democrats to save them from the bad decisions they made this time. We’re outnumbered.
p.a.
@MattF: I can see Yertle having a (as in one, maybe) McCain thumb-down moment to stick up Little Lord tRumpleroy’s ass. The question is about what, when.
KatKapCC
Good to know Whitehouse is another person I can stop thinking has any decency. The company you keep, and all that…
Suzanne
If you believe Morning Consult, Fetterman’s strategy is working.
Not a gift link, so use archive.ph.
Quinerly
@Steve LaBonne:
THIS!!!!!!!!
Baud
@Suzanne:
Gin & Tonic
@p.a.: Everyone says it’s better to call. 401-453-5294.
JMG
The point of Democratic unity isn’t to win these votes, they don’t have the numbers. It’s to be able to say after the inevitable disasters “we told you so.” The slightest tinge of crossing-the-aisle will result in the usual flood of “both sides” from the pundit class.
trollhattan
Meanwhile, in another dictatorship partway around the globe, “you are being agent, and you are being agent, and also being an agent is you!”
Gin & Tonic
@KatKapCC: As a constituent of his, I think you’re off base. Let’s wait until his position is clear. He’s really been a voice for good for a long time on Judiciary; one unsubstantiated rumor does not negate that.
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
And, what I am amazed about is the President of Navajo Nation is Trump friendly. I wasn’t aware of this until last night. He and his wife were partying it up Mon at the inauguration and festivities. Lots of pictures. Looks like the ball they were invited to was in a low ceiling basement somewhere. 3rd rate but they are grinning. He has said that Trump is shepherding in a “golden age.”
Steve LaBonne
@The Thin Black Duke: I have always been opposed to “heighten the contradictions” thinking. But now we can’t prevent the catastrophes, so all we can do is hope they wake just enough voters the fuck up. I can’t say I’m wildly optimistic. I also can’t say that white America, which has always flatly refused to confront the genocide and slavery on which it was founded, doesn’t deserve what we’re going to get. If I’m part of the collateral damage, well, I’m old.
Steve LaBonne
@Quinerly: The leopards have arrived for him right on schedule.
John S.
@Steve LaBonne:
Agreed. Though nobody should have to pay attention to your comments nor should you feel compelled to state your bonafides before expressing criticism.
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah: My first impulse, reading about that argument after I was alerted to it, was to say “well, it’s more complicated than that,” then I realized I was bending over backwards to ascribe good faith to these dingdongs, which I should not do.
It’s another ridiculous Moon logic argument. They note that there was a time in the past when Natives were not considered to have birthright citizenship, then argue that we have “weaker ties” to children of certain immigrants than to Natives.
Of course that’s nonsense because this isn’t about “weaker ties,” it’s about Federal legal jurisdiction. The sovereignty of Native American nations is a complicated, nuanced thing, but they used to not pay taxes (“Indians not taxed”) and weren’t considered citizens, but now they do and they are. With Federal jurisdiction comes birthright citizenship. They pay taxes; they vote; US law applies to them though with some special allowances for sovereign self-rule. It’s as simple as that; it says so in the 14th Amendment. Children of immigrants born on US soil are under US jurisdiction too, more so than Natives actually, so they get birthright citizenship.
Geminid
@Suzanne: Yeah, Sinema was not some sort of stealth Centrist. When Sinema won election to the House in 2012 she promptly joined the Blue Dog Caucus.
Ironically, if Sinema had been as loyal to President Biden and Democratic leadership as her former Blue Dog colleagues were 2018-2024 she might be Senator today.
Steve LaBonne
@John S.: I did not imply that they should, just making clear that I am not a habitual basher.
Steve LaBonne
@Matt McIrvin: Note that Republicans in a number of states would be truly delighted if they could no longer vote. They did not choose this argument at random.
John S.
@Steve LaBonne:
Which you shouldn’t feel like you have to do. Constructive criticism should always be welcome, regardless of your “history”.
Baud
@Geminid:
Agreed. She really went out of her way to blow her sinecure.
Quinerly
@Steve LaBonne:
Of interest. Me thinks Francine Bradley Arthur will wake up with no face.
https://navajotimes.com/opinion/columns/a-navajo-perspective-why-many-of-us-support-trump-over-harris/#google_vignette
Matt McIrvin
@trollhattan: Alt-med woos hate Big Pharma and love Big Unregulated Supplement.
Kay
We’ll see brave people in addition to all the scheming, self serving cowards. Hopefully at least slightly more of the first.
Librettist
@rikyrah:
Gorsuch is going to love that.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay: My daughter is an elementary school teacher in MD. The other day she sent us the principals’ guidance on this sort of thing. While it did not say “refuse entry,” it was very clear that they want to see appropriate paperwork authorizing entry, and that nobody is to volunteer any information.
Steve LaBonne
@Kay: A lot of organizations that work with immigrants are reminding people that ICE “administrative warrants” are not worth the paper they’re printed on. Nobody has to let them in unless they have a genuine search warrant signed by a real judge.
Baud
Librettist
@Baud:
Who the fuck do they plan on hiring?
Also may want to check their sales demographics.
Melancholy Jaques
Is there a recent example of this being a winning strategy?
Baud
@Melancholy Jaques:
Comments # 46 and 48.
Baud
@Librettist:
Maybe they’ll convince gun nuts they’re a gun store.
Kosh III
@Gin & Tonic: Everyone says it’s better to call.
Our two worthless senators never answer the phone, you’re lucky to get voicemail.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
I don’t think it’s responding to media rumors as much as it is expecting forceful & very public opposition to ridiculous & stupid things Republicans do.
RFK Jr is an unhinged lunatic who should be described as such every time his name is mentioned. Democrats suffer from the public not know where we stand on things. We need to end that. We need to say that RFK Jr does not belong in that job & that the idiot who nominated him is a danger to public health. Over and over and over and over.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
I meant election results. And job approval is a vibes thing, not related to policy positions.
Baud
@Melancholy Jaques:
Many do say that. Whitehouse has said nothing as far as I know and he’s getting the attention now. So I’m not surprised the public is confused about where we (or at least 90% of us) stand.
Baud
@Melancholy Jaques:
Don’t know. I’m not even sure what the sample size is there. The problem is, if a Dem is moving to the right, their constituency may be moving to the right faster. See Ohio and Missouri and a whole lot of other states than have gone red.
Suzanne
@Geminid:
AND she engaged in some pretty shitty tactics against a fellow (better) Democrat, David Schapira, to win her primary. That was known, and it sucked, and it basically smashed Schapira’s chance at a political career, though he did go on to the Tempe City Council for a while.
Disclosure: I spent months phone calling and canvassing for Schapira in that campaign and he and his family are longtime friends with my thesis advisor.
Suzanne
@Baud: She blew it up so dramatically that I believe she did so intentionally. She is a garbage human, but she had always displayed cunning and sharp instincts. There’s no way, IMO, that she didn’t do that on purpose, to build her brand for whatever she wants to do next.
BlueGuitarist
@Kay:
also chicago.
Elementary schools!
https://news.wttw.com/2025/01/24/ice-agents-turned-away-back-yards-elementary-school-officials
BlueGuitarist
@Steve LaBonne:
exactly.
Illustrated:
https://coloradoimmigrant.org/related/understand-the-difference-between-judicial-warrants-and-ice-warrants/
PatD
@Hildebrand: I’m not seeing any evidence of an organized strategy. The primary goal of Democrats should be engineering mass backlash and ultimately a wave midterm election. Every day should be centered around that goal. Sometimes it requires being reactionary. Being invisible is a wasted day.
TBone
NOOOOOOO PLEASE DON’T TAKE MY BELOVED SHELDON AWAY FROM ME AAARRRGGHHHHH
I have had a huge crush on that man for such a long time! They maybe might be deciding to make nice just long enough to get what we in our States need before shivving that fucking ball gargling thunder twat? Yes, I am a cockeyed optimist sweet, summer child who walks softly while carrying a big stick!
GAH!
Fettermanchinema was enough for this month! Jiminy Cricket!
TBone
@BlueGuitarist: thank you for sharing that, here’s a salute!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0hiUuL5uTKc
TBone
@Steve LaBonne: I let a cop bang on my door for HOURS one time while I hid under my comforter in bed. He knew I was home, but without a warrant, YOU AIN’T SHIT TO ME, COPPER!
gene108
@p.a.:
There is no way in hell Turtle votes against what the Republican Senate majority votes for. He will support anything and everything Republicans do.
His moral center is amassing power in the Senate, which one does not get by bucking their party.
Josie
@Steve LaBonne:
This is something that needs to be repeated over and over. The warrant that ICE uses blatantly states “Administrative Warrant” at the top of the page. An actual Judge’s warrant will identify the court issuing the warrant at the top. There is a big difference. The administrative warrant is not worth the paper it is printed on.
gene108
@Suzanne:
There aren’t more of us than they are of “them”.
White people support Trump policies. Improving a Democrats share of the white vote is necessary to regain power.
Biden got a larger percentage of the white vote, especially the white male vote, in 2020 than Hillary did in 2016. I think it’s one of the big reasons he beat Trump then.
chopper
funny thing is, that fucker is so old he’s pre-boomer
Suzanne
@gene108: Trump gained with every racial cohort relative to 2020. Gained more with men than with women, yes; there is a gender gap within every racial cohort.
This is indicative of broad issues, but I think it also offers a lot of opportunities. Fetterman’s “erode the margins” strategy worked well for him in PA, and a similar approach might be as effective.
Quinerly
Don’t know which thread to drop this. Will leave here.
Per emails reviewed by TPM, judiciary employees across the country received an email from a human resources account run by the Office of Personnel and Management early Friday morning. The message indicated that OPM was testing a “new distribution and response list.”
The email prompted confusion among judiciary employees, in part because they do not work for the executive branch, and in part because the message asked them to click on a link, raising concerns that it may have been a phishing attempt.
But phishing attempt it was not: The message was real, and came as part of what OPM describes on its website as an initiative to create a government-wide means of emailing every civilian federal employee. OPM is an independent agency of the executive branch that operates like the human resources office for federal employees.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/stay-in-your-lane-judiciary-rebukes-trump-admin-for-email-blast-to-court-employees
TBone
@Suzanne: just now received this email from Fetterman:
Suzanne
@TBone: That’s good to see.
I am disappointed in how he plans to vote for Oz for CMS, etc, but I’m glad to see he isn’t party-switching.
TBone
@Suzanne: he beat Oz like a rented mule here in PA once already…it was epic. I think he might be playing the long game (hoping!).
Betty
@Baud: I have an anecdote about Fetterman and RFK Jr that does seem to warrant some concern. There was a post by a reporter on social media showing Fetterman rushing out of his office to shake the guy’s hand, as if he considered him a celebrity. May not result in support once all the weird stuff is covered in hearings. As a strong supporter of Fetterman’s election, I am disappointed in some of his behavior and do wonder about possible brain damage from his stroke.
Geminid
@TBone: I never was a Fetterman fan, but I was glad of course to see Fetterman beat Oz. But I thought Mehmet Oz was a crappy candidate. He barely won his primary even though Trump endorsed him.
I was very relieved when Oz edged out David McCormick. A slick-talking hedge fund manager like McCormick would have made that a closer race and could have won. I’d seen Glenn Youngkin do that the year before in Virginia.
KatKapCC
@Gin & Tonic: Being friends with a dangerous nutjob piece of shit means the person does not deserve my regard.
jefft452
@Baud: “Fetterman has nearly doubled his approval rating among Republicans”
Who will vote for the Republican in 2028 even if the disapprove of Fetterman less than they did in 2022