Caroline Kennedy’s letter about her cousin is worth a read. Video at this link.
Dear Senators Crapo, Wyden, Cassidy and Sanders:
Throughout the past year, people have asked for my thoughts about my cousin, Robert Kennedy, Jr. and his presidential campaign.
I did not comment, not only because I was serving in a government position as United States Ambassador to Australia, but because I have never wanted to speak publicly about my family members and their challenges. We are a close generation of 28 cousins who have been through a lot together. We know how hard it has been, and we are always there for each other.
But now that bobby has been nominated by President Trump to be Secretary of Health and Human Services, a position that would put him in charge of the health of the American people, I feel an obligation to speak out.
Overseeing the FDA, the NIH, the CDC, and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services — agencies that are charged with protecting the most vulnerable among us — is an enormous responsibility, and one that Bobby is unqualified to fill. He lacks any relevant government, financial, management, or medical experience. His views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed. These facts alone should be disqualifying. But he has personal qualities related to this position which, for me, post even greater concern.
I have known Bobby my whole life; we grew up together. It’s no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because he himself is a predator. He has always been charismatic — able to attract others through the strength of his personality, willingness to take risks and break the rules. I watched his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. His basement, his garage, and his dorm room were the centers of the action where drugs were available, and he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in the blender to feed his hawks. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence.
Of course, people can grow and change. Through his own strength — and the many second chances he was given by people who felt sorry for the boy who had lost his father — Bobby was able to pull himself out of illness and disease. I admire the discipline that took and the continuing commitment it requires.
But siblings and cousins who Bobby encouraged down the path of substance abused suffered addiction, illness, and death while Bobby has gone to to misrepresent, lie, and cheat his way through life. Today, while he may encourage a younger generation to attend AA meetings, Bobby is addicted to attention and power. Bobby preys on the desperation of parents and sick children — vaccinating his own children while building a following by hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs. Even before he fills this job, his constant denigration of our health care system and the conspiratorial half-truths he has told about vaccines, including in connection with Samoa’s deadly 2019 measles outbreak, have cost lives.
And now we know that Bobby’s crusade against vaccination has benefited him in other ways, too. His ethics report makes clear that he will keep his financial stake in a lawsuit against an HPV vaccine. In other words, he is willing to enrich himself by denying access to a vaccine that can prevent almost all forms of cervical cancer and which has been safely administered to millions of boys and girls. During my time in Australia working on the QUAD Cancer Moonshot, I learned that cervical cancer is among the top three forms of cancer among women in a majority of countries. Tragically every year, more than 200,000 children lose their mothers, orphaned due to a lack of vaccines and screening. These are the real-world consequences of Bobby’s irresponsible beliefs.
We are a close family and none of this is easy to say. It also wasn’t easy to remain silent last year when Bobby expropriated my father’s image and distorted President Kennedy’s legacy to advance his own failed presidential campaign — and then groveled to Donald Trump for a job. Bobby continues to grandstand off my father’s assassination, and that of his own father. It is incomprehensible that someone who is willing to exploit their own painful family tragedies for publicity would be in charge of American life-and-death situations.
Unlike Bobby, I try not to speak for my father — but I am certain that he and my Uncle Bobby, who gave their lives in public service, and my Uncle Teddy, who devoted his Senate career to improving health care, would be disgusted.
The American health care system, for all its flaws, is the envy of the world. Its doctors and nurses, researchers, scientists, and caregivers are the most dedicated people I know. Every day, they give their lives to heal and save others. They deserve a knowledgable leader who is committed to evidence and excellence. They deserve a Secretary committed to advancing cutting-edge medicine to save lives, not rejecting the advances we have already made. They deserve a stable, moral, and ethical person at the helm of this crucial agency. They deserve better than Bobby Kennedy — and so do the rest of us. I urge the Senate to reject this nomination.
Sincerely,
Caroline Kennedy
Open thread.
Scout211
Wow.
TONYG
I’m genuinely curious about how RFK Junior became such a train-wreck as a human being. Was it his father’s assassination? His family’s wealth, power and fame? I’m curious to learn more about that — after RFK Junior sinks into the powerless obscurity that he deserves.
Betty Cracker
She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.
Matt McIrvin
Damn.
(as in “daaaaamn,” not an expression of dismay)
Steve LaBonne
Well that does it, he’ll only be confirmed in another 50-50 tie broken by Faux Hillbilly.
Keith P.
@TONYG: Many years of drug abuse followed by the cynicism one gains when realizing how many people will overlook it in the name of “redemption”
Betty Cracker
@Steve LaBonne: Of all the shitty nominees, which is all of them, I think his has the best shot at being derailed. Not saying it’s gonna happen, but our odds are probably as good as they get in this shitshow.
@mistermix.bsky.social
I’m regretting the title of this post. Should have been ‘God damn the Pusherman’ in a tribute to Miss Nina Simone, who definitely didn’t have a lot of fucks to give, just like Amb. Kennedy.
You know what’s going to sink this fucker? The birds and mice in the blender. Not kidding.
Tim C.
@Keith P.: (Legal disclaimer on the radio voice)
“Redemtion applies only to wealthy white male heternormative conservatives, and those willing to endorse Christian Nationalism”
artem1s
He may not lose confirmation votes but…
He just lost any grift from his PETA adjacent followers…
and there goes the Portalandia Woo crowd.
The HPV lies will likely make him a hero with the fundies though.
dmsilev
Truly, he has found his home in the modern Republican party.
JPL
@artem1s: As much as I would hope that the blender episode would be enough to bring him down, the fact that his children are vaccinated might do it. trump will probably sell trump blenders next.
JoyceH
If he gets voted down it will be because he’s not anti-abortion enough for the slavering misogynists of the GOP.
sixthdoctor
WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal judge temporarily blocks Trump administration freeze on federal grants and loans.
Steve LaBonne
@sixthdoctor: Will they obey the order? This is going to get interesting, in the “may you live in interesting times” sense.
Gin & Tonic
I have twice called the office of his old friend, and my Senator, Sheldon Whitehouse, to register, first, my dismay that he is not wholeheartedly condemning this lunatic and, second, my outrage that Whitehouse yesterday told his constituents to “chill” about this. I made clear that if he votes to confirm, he’s never getting my vote again (empty threat, I know, since he’s next up in six years, and who knows if I’ll be alive.)
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
That will get RFK2 approved for sure. Enough Reichwingnuts will read that as proof he will do what they want done to the US system: make it world-class for the 1% and toxic for the rest.
scav
@JPL: Ah yes, with his acolytes extolling their use to produce manly food for their manly dogs and likely a host(ess) of tradwives posting youtube live-action recipes for same.
oldgold
The Judge who issued the Order is:
Judge Loren L. AliKhan was appointed to the District Court in December 2023. Born in Baltimore, Maryland, she received her B.A., summa cum laude, from Bard College at Simon’s Rock in 2003, and her J.D., magna cum laude, from Georgetown University Law Center in 2006.
On July 13, 2023, her nomination was reported out of committee by an 11–10 vote. On December 5, 2023, the Senate invoked cloture on her nomination by a 51–50 vote, with Vice President Kamala Harris voting in the affirmative.
Stella
@sixthdoctor: That’s great news, because the Democrats didn’t seem to be doing much about it.
I’ve spent the last few years being the Blue No Matter Who person in my friend group, and the Dems over the past week have made me feel like an idiot. I absolutely do not understand what they think they are doing.
I feel like, on top of the fascism, I’ve been utterly abandoned by the people who were supposed to fight for us.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
@@mistermix.bsky.social: birds and mice in a blender aren’t going to move the needle for a party that approves of shooting dogs just for being overeager.
The Audacity of Krope
How do you suppose the case got in front of a judge?
I’ve been saying let “vote blue no matter who” die, myself, since the election. But let’s be fair.
HeleninEire
That’s quite a letter.
artem1s
@JPL: the cruelty will endear him with the GOP. It’s the followers he’s grifting that Caroline is aiming for. She’s hitting him where it hurts. She’s hitting him in the pocket book. The guy was broke at the end of his campaign.
I’m sure she’s aware that most of what she’s written will fall on deaf ears in the GOP. She might be betting he’ll withdraw if he believes his ability to grift off his position is compromised. And if he loses his back$rs and TCF gets wind that he won’t be getting a taste of the action funneling NIH money to Bobby’s Woo friends he might dump him for a more lucrative partner.
Matt McIrvin
Animal cruelty actually seems to be a near-requirement for a Cabinet position.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
The judge was a Dem appointee but this case was brought by private parties. There’s another case brought by states.
Stella
@The Audacity of Krope: I suppose I should have clarified Congress. States did this, while half of the Senate Dems went ahead and approved a nominee. This was an actual take over attempt, it should have been an all hands on deck. Not a few press releases
Trollhattan
A Kennedy I endorse with zero reservations. Let you voice be heard, Caroline.
hueyplong
At least one thing is being accomplished: We’re less likely to read “Why didn’t Caroline Kennedy do anything?”
Jackie
@Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq): Beat me to it. RFK jr, Noem and Hegseth’s sins are MAGA virtues.
banditqueen
…
Old School
@sixthdoctor:
Blocked until Monday.
The Audacity of Krope
@Stella: State Attorneys general can act when the law calls. Congressional action is by committee. Give them time.
zhena gogolia
@dmsilev: Absolutely.
This whole thing boils down to sadism for the people who now have power over us.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: Who knows if any of us will. Thanks for your persistence.
Trollhattan
What is this, frickin’ 1956?
“Marxist equity?” Is that how you measure appreciation with time of Lenin’s Tomb?
schrodingers_cat
-Donald Trump is a white DEI hire
Kay
@artem1s:
I never considered whether he vaccinated his own. Has he been asked that? I hope so.
Jeffro
Important to note that apparently this is the very best person trumpov could find to oversee the FDA, the NIH, the CDC, and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. In a nation of 330M people.
What does it say about trumpov?
What does it say about the GOP, that they wouldn’t either nip this in the bud a la Gaetz, or publicly if it comes to it?
THAT’s what we wanna hammer on, folks. This…creature…this whale-sawing, bear-corpse-toting, corrupt as hell scam artist and bird-blending psychopath is who trumpov WANTS in a position of power over all of America’s health.
She got one thing right. It’s absolutely disgusting.
zhena gogolia
@Matt McIrvin: That and sexual abuse.
ETA: Of which he is apparently also accused.
The Audacity of Krope
I said something. Repeatedly. I was disregarded. What more could I do?
Kay
@Jeffro:
I think RFKJr gave Trump a measurable number of voters. He’s more powerful than the other nominees, not less so. He brought voters with him.
I wonder why she didn’t mention his gross, abusive behavior with his children’s babysitters. Seems an odd omission.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Trump was practically advertising him as a running mate toward the end.
The Audacity of Krope
Abusing the help is a bougie prerogative. Class-based oversight.
Kay
@Matt McIrvin:
Yup. He polled much better than expected, too. There was nothing to be done, obviously Harris couldn’t and shouldn’t embrace him, but he helped Trump with actual numbers.
glory b
@Stella: Huh? What are you talking about?
A group of Democratic governors and Attorneys General, including Tish James, are filing also.
Jeffro
I’m not up for critiquing her. Not my first priority, or eighth. What she did was plenty brave and relevant.
If folks want to talk about how it’s payback for RFK Jr delivering voters, great, whatever. (I don’t think he delivered more than he subtracted with his repellent views, but I also don’t have any evidence either way). I don’t care about trumpov’s rationale…I want to highlight how unbelievably irresponsible and dangerous the nomination is in the first place, much less the prospect of having a genuine anti-public-health chest-beater and obvious psycho in that office. And I want trumpov to take the weight for it, and I want the GOP to pay for any support for it whatsoever.
Anyway, she spoke up, in detail, and tried to put the brakes on this insanity. It matters and should be applauded.
Kay
So another Trump degenerate. The shittiest, lowest quality people in the world are high ranking MAGAs – just absolute scumbags.
The kind of men who hit on their children’s babysitters.
glory b
@The Audacity of Krope: As they say in my community, if it doesn’t apply, just let it pass by.
WaterGirl
Holy fuck-ski.
and
and
I’m certainly disgusted!
Baud
I assume a party line vote.
Stella
@glory b: I clarified a few posts down I was referring to Congress. Dems across the states are definitely taking it seriously, I’m just very dissatisfied with the performance in DC so far. Specifically, I don’t understand why the Dems seem to be going through the nominees as business as usual. This really seems like the time for full scale resistance.
glory b
@Stella: What do you imagine was in the power and jurisdiction of the minority party to do?
WaterGirl
@The Audacity of Krope:
That was my thought, too. Regardless of who brought the case, citizens or elected officials, they are surely democrats who are fighting the firehose of shit.
The Audacity of Krope
@glory b: I tend to agree, in general. SC needs some pushback on her obsessions, though. I can’t imagine this applying to much anyone here. She’s just pushing a line of hatred.
Every day. And not just about white people
Harrison Wesley
Wonder how that fur-‘n-feather smoothie will look to people whose SNAP benefits have been yanked.
Kay
@Jeffro:
I went to an event for Obama at the Toledo Library in 2008 where she was the main attraction. She was warm and interested in everyone – seemed like a lovely person. I also think she’s shy or “quiet” – she wasn’t completely comfortable in a crowd.
schrodingers_cat
@Stella: They are meeting tomorrow at 1:00 about it. My rep has already tweeted about it. What exactly do you want elected Ds in Congress to do right now. They are not in charge. Rs are.
Suzanne
This is fantastic. Good for her.
Lobo
What is happening right now is why, joining with anything Pres. Rape, is such a loser. The representatives who joined the Laiken Act don’t look that great right now. You never come out looking good.
See Stella’s comment below.
Stella
@glory b: No more unanimous consent. No more Dem votes for any nominees, fight every single one. Refuse to allow the machinery to be used to the best of their abilities.
They campaigned on the rise of fascism, but they’re continuing to act like this is any other Senate. I want them in any way to show they actually think this is serious.
Look, I voted straight ticket despite my reservations about some of them because I believe this moment is dangerous. I don’t expect them to whip out the guillotines and storm the White House. But I would like some fire from them. Instead, they seem like they just want to keep their heads down and wait it out.
Jeffro
@Baud: good to see her remember the Democratic Party’s key priorities here and get out in front.
LAC
@The Audacity of Krope: what hatred? That is a very strong word
The Audacity of Krope
@LAC: What else explains the monomaniacal disparagement of broad groups of people for “doing it wrong,” whatever the it of the day is?
Shalimar
@schrodingers_cat: I cancelled Thanksgiving this year because half the people there would be Trump voters and I don’t want to talk to those assholes. I am telling them now about the Medicaid on hold too bad they’re gonna die but at least they got lower egg prices thing.
Baud
@Shalimar:
But they didn’t.
The Audacity of Krope
Did they, though?
ETA: Damnit, Baud…
Wait. Bauddamnit…
schrodingers_cat
@LAC: Pointing out that a majority of white women vote Republican makes me a hater according to some on this blog.
I disagree with his characterization of my comments. I don’t hate anyone.
CliosFanboy
That entire family is made up of human train wrecks. Caroline may be one of the exceptions
Shalimar
@Baud: Yes. That sarcasm is the cut that sticks in the most.
Baud
@Shalimar:
Good job.
The Audacity of Krope
@schrodingers_cat: Maybe directing this animosity at people consistently voting for Democrats isn’t the play?
Find some Republicans and complain to them.
What about your animosity toward the left, regardless of color? What about your animosity toward BLM activists?
Josie
@schrodingers_cat:
I understand and agree with the second part of your comment that he is a white DEI hire, I don’t understand the first part in the quote box. What are you saying there?
hueyplong
@schrodingers_cat: As a white male, I’d say that my demographic is probably most to blame.
No one here is to blame.
The Audacity of Krope
@WaterGirl: Hi, by the way.🤗
MaryLou
@Gin & Tonic: Sheldon Whitehouse is always on Lawrence O’Donnell excoriating the Trump Supreme Court for their corruption. If he votes yes on Bobby Kennedy after this brutal letter, he’s lost all ground to complain about public corruption or pretend to be anything but another rich WASP selling out the American people.
schrodingers_cat
@Josie: To provide more context. I was quoting
@Needle_of_Arya
Its his response to the people who are demanding that the Ds do something.
schrodingers_cat
@hueyplong: I didn’t say they were.
Stella
@schrodingers_cat: Is your position honestly that the Dems in Congress are exercising their full power right now? That there is nothing else they could possibly do? That might honestly be the most depressing answer of all.
Josie
@schrodingers_cat:
Ah, I understand. Thanks.
The Audacity of Krope
@Stella: Like I said. AGs can just act according to the law. Congress works by committee. Nothing they ever do is immediate.
Gretchen
@TONYG: Bobby’s mom was pregnant with her 11th child when her husband was assassinated, and wasn’t really present raising her children. Even a caring, involved mother doesn’t have enough attention to make sure each of 11 children get what they need.
His brother David was watching tv alone in an LA hotel room and saw his father shot on live tv. It was several hours before someone thought to check on the 13 year old. David died of a heroin overdose at age 28.
All the kids went to boarding school and seem to have gotten little supervision when they were home. It’s not a surprise that several of them turned out to be a mess, but that’s no reason to put one of them in charge of our entire health care system.
schrodingers_cat
@Stella: People voted for this. Elections have consequences. Rs are in charge. How to counter them when they control all the levers of the government is going to be a challenge. I don’t spend my time yelling at people who are trying to fix stuff as best as they can.
Stella
@The Audacity of Krope: They held a vote today. Half of them voted for Trump’s nominee. Not giving your vote to the dictator’s nominees is, I feel, literally the smallest possible ask of them. If not before, at least after the “I’m the king” executive order. What gain came from them taking part in this vote?
I sincerely didn’t think I was being controversial by saying they’re doing a bad job. I don’t think they were screwup for the past few years, even if I wish they had made different decisions at times. But I don’t see a strategy from the Dems in Congress right now. I see no difference from standard behavior, and in the present circumstance I think that’s awful politics at absolute best, and terrible peopling at worst.
You can’t run on “fascism is coming” and then have an emergency meeting 48 hours after illegal orders to discuss the strategy. The strategy should already be in place.
dc
@Trollhattan: They don’t even realize they speak in gibberish, only cult members understand.
Lymie
She’s modeling a bit of a profile in courage. I like her and her son.
Stella
@schrodingers_cat: I wasn’t yelling, I was trying to commiserate with what I thought would be a receptive crowd. “Why do the Dems suck at politics” isn’t a controversial Democratic position!
Instead, for stating my displeasure with the current Dems strategy, I’ve been targeted for being hysterical. I honestly do not understand. I guess I’m being seen as a troll, but that was never my intention. I’ve been a lurker here since Obama, and I just wanted to complain with others. My apologies.
schrodingers_cat
@The Audacity of Krope: My animosity towards BLM activists? What are you smoking?
Pointing out that Defund the Police was not a popular slogan doesn’t mean that I hold any animus towards BLM.
If you are going to take everything I say and give it the worst possible interpretation or just make up stuff about me, I am done trying to talk to you
The Audacity of Krope
Trump can staff his administration. They have opposed some of his other nominees.
Now, supporting nominees does not determine whether these executive orders go into effect.
This might be a case of “pick your fights.”
LAC
@The Audacity of Krope: As I have said, a lot of white people do not like to sit in discomfort about why this has happened. A lot of time is spent being defensive and saying “that is not me”. It can lead to people becoming frustrated and feeling, as I think a number of folks of color here feel, myself included, like we are being spoken at, spoken over or spoken through, but not with. You want to be allies, but only if you set the terms of how we are to speak. I have watched over the last few months how posters like SC and others get dismissed and verbally attacked. That they hung in here is admirable. Maybe approach it as a long overdue conversation. Because this is what happens when racism/sexism is weaponized by white men. Sorry, but that is what is happening. Or you can pie.
Me? I have another insulting and probably illegal OPM edict to read before I end my day.
schrodingers_cat
@Stella: No apology necessary. Complain away.
schrodingers_cat
@LAC: Thanks for having my back. I appreciate it.
Suzanne
@Stella:
You’re not a troll, you’re not hysterical, you’re not wrong.
I hope you stay.
The Audacity of Krope
Dwelling on the slogan, not proposing alternatives, ignoring worthy goals because of opposition to what was just a slogan; none of this points to a good ally.
The persistence points to animosity.
glory b
@Stella: If you are referring to the lawsuits filed, no, that’s not how American jurisprudence works. The ones filing must be suffering an act of harm,
A parent whose child will not be provided with educational services provided through Title l funding, disabled adults who receive medical services provided by Medicare or Medicaid, states losing disaster relief, nonprofits that will close due to funding loss, those sort of plaintiffs have suffered the types of harm that is actionable.
members of Congress don’t fall into those categories.
zhena gogolia
@Stella: We’re all depressed and touchy. I’ve had my feelings hurt ten times today on BJ. I’m trying not to let it get to me. Anything you say is fine. People are just going to back-and-forth about this, because none of us knows what to do.
Stella
@The Audacity of Krope: But what fight? That’s what I mean, they were going to get in, I’m not claiming they could stop it. But what did it gain them to vote for?
I don’t know why you’d do that. I have no theory of mind that would explain them going along with it. Scuttlebutt on the streets is some of them tried to organize a collected no vote as a display of displeasure with Trump’s order, and Schumer wouldn’t go along with it. It boggles the mind why not.
I’m not joking, I do not understand the strategy. To my eyes, it just looks like their isn’t one.
glory b
@Suzanne: Not understanding he ins and outs of American civil procedure isn’t hysteria.
Typically, law students study it for at least a year.
Remember, there is both federal and state procedural laws, that’s 51 separate systems.
To make it even more confusing, federal courts have local rules too.
Kay
Musk is now admitting they going to crash the economy but it will be okay in two years.
The South African Nazi doesn’t know much about Americans if he thinks they’re sacrificing for the goals of tech bros. These are the people who pitched an absolute hissy fit because they had to wear a mask. The softest, most coddled people in the world.
zhena gogolia
@LAC: It is definitely a long overdue conversation.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Stella:
Nobody’s characterized it quite like that and as we’d say back at the USMC Command & Staff College: “it’s a blinding flash of the obvious”.
Stella
@glory b: Threads on here become a mess quickly. I’ve stated elsewhere, but I’d like Congress to go full obstruction, that’s what I’d like from them. The purpose of which is to make it clear this isn’t business as normal. All of this just feels like the pageantry of normality that the Senate especially refuses to give up.
I know they can’t fight the order directly, that wasn’t my intent.
The Audacity of Krope
@LAC: I only pie for defamatory lying, Quinerly being the sole regular commenter in my pie filter.
I don’t have a lot of love for “whiteness.” I view it as a tool for the erasure of culture, whether voluntary or by force, as well as for the consolidation of power in white hands.
I have the conversations with Republican relatives. I’m not the only one here. We try. I promise, it is not a productive endeavor.
Yet we try.
Suzanne
@glory b: I understand. But nothing that I’ve seen from Stella on this thread should, IMO, been construed as anything other than good-faith criticism.
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: Just remember, white people will defend white supremacy. They are the white people for whom any acknowledgement of white people as a demographic and their preferences and behaviors for the last half century is “hating white people.
”Not All White People” exists on this fine and estimable blog, too.
Stella
@Suzanne: I didn’t mean I’d leave, I just meant I’d stop talking.
You don’t walk into the Star Trek convention and start talking about how much you hate Star Trek. I mean this as kindly as possible, I don’t want to just bother people, and if the people in the comments think I’m talking nonsense I’d rather just stop because I don’t think the world needs any more discord in it.
I really didn’t think I was stirring up a hornets nest, and then the old “no, they’ll agree if you just explained it better” kicked in. It’s a habit that’s painfully hard to break, even after all these years.
I value this place enough that I don’t want to be a negative to the people here. Sorry.
The Audacity of Krope
@Stella: I don’t think anyone believes you’re being hysterical or trollish. For my own part, I’m pointing out where action has taken place and taking account of what other responsible entities are capable of.
Proper setting of expectations matters, for your own blood pressure if nothing else.
Stella
@glory b: I know that you, like I, have seen so many people over the past few years angry the Dems didn’t fix things. You have to explain, again and again, the limits of their power, what they can do. It’s exhausting. And like tech support, once you’ve explained something a thousand times it becomes rote.
Im not trying to do that. I don’t expect the Dems to magically fix things. But I haven’t seen any behavior from the House or Senate that shows me they’re taking this seriously. There are levels of obstruction open to them they have yet to use.
If this moment isn’t enough to do so, when will? How much more ground is there left to defend? If this is legitimately all they have to offer, what use are they in this moment?
Gretchen
@The Audacity of Krope: I don’t think sc is pushing a line of hatred against white people, and I say that as a white person. As glory b says, if it doesn’t apply to you, let it pass by. She’s not talking about us white Harris voters. Race was undoubtedly a factor in the election, and it’s a factor in who this racist president is going after, and we ignore that at our peril. I have Indian family members, who are citizens, but that won’t protect them if some overzealous ICE agent hasn’t met his quota. I value sc’s perspective as an Indian immigrant to inform me on what my own family members are thinking.
Stella
@The Audacity of Krope: Sorry, this is why I mostly lurk. I’m bad at breaking things down in small chunks to explain myself. I understand the disconnect.
Suzanne
@Stella: I don’t think you’re talking nonsense.
I think of it like this, at least for myself: I almost always agree with the Democratic Party platform, I usually think we have good candidates, and I sometimes-to-often think our strategy is less than ideal. IMO, all of that is worthy of discussion and should not be interpreted as a lack of support, or “betrayal”, or “hysteria”, or any of the other choice terminology that’s been thrown around in recent months.
Professor Bigfoot
@LAC: THANK you.
There are folk here on this blog who simply cannot deal with why we are where we are; that their whiteness is so central to their identity that they take an attack on white supremacy does and did as an attack on them.
White fragility is indeed on display here; and if we can’t get these white people to grapple with whiteness and white supremacy and its role in their daily lives, how the fuck will we ever get any OTHER white people do?
WaterGirl
@LAC: I want to encourage you to write something up for a guest post on that. Send me an email message if you want to consider the idea.
watergirl at balloon-juice.com
The Audacity of Krope
@Stella: Take it from me, there will always be someone here to disagree with you. That isn’t a reason to not post. We need more voices, not fewer.
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: Is this House representatives who are meeting? I already called mine – she is very interested in various health issues, and is very much a business booster. The Kansas-side KC suburbs are very dependent on federal medical and research dollars – they’re in the middle of planning a new facility for the U of Kansas National Cancer Center, and nobody wants that to operate out of a trailer.
Kay
@Stella:
You’re fine. Don’t feel you have to lurk. I thought what you wrote was perfectly clear.
Suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope: I wish we could stick to good-spirited disagreement and not some of the mean, stalker-y, passive-aggressive shit that has been far too frequent these last few months.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Audacity of Krope: Or perhaps it’s a recognition that
A: THERE WILL BE POLICING. Whether its with the consent of the policed, whether it’s associated with the local municipality or the local druglord, THERE WILL BE POLICING.
B: White Americans perceive the police as the people who “protect and serve them.”
Protect them from those criminal Black people; because American police culture was born in antebellum slave patrols and is carried in police union halls today (did you notice that FOP were Trump’s first major endorsement in 2016 and they have never stopped?).
Black people understand this- all that’s been asked for is that the police not kill innocent and unarmed Black people with impunity, and it was white people who came up with that ridiculous slogan.
Come up with something else? HOW ABOUT SHUT THE FUCK UP?
The Audacity of Krope
@Professor Bigfoot: My problem is with SC’s obsessiveness, not her argument per se. I’ve been in here agreeing with you on a similarly stated point.
She overstates and oversteps and comports herself in much the same way as the white women she complains about.
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: I appreciate your viewpoint and hope you’ll keep commenting here. I’m worried about the raids in NJ considering that I have Indian family member there who don’t blend in. They’re citizens, but I don’t think that will necessarily be protective. I value your insights on what they might be experiencing. I’m going out there soon to spend a month to help with my daughter’s surgery recovery, but don’t expect them to frankly share their thoughts.
I’m an old white lady who doesn’t feel criticized by your comments that old white women who support Trump are failing us. They are and they need to stop.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
One problem is that people like to claim they’re arguing in good faith but really aren’t. Furthermore, some of us who deal with these types IRL on important policy issues aren’t actually interested in debating them because the tactic used is always trying to frame the debate from their point of departure. As Steve Gilliard once put it, we’re not here to debate them, we’re not here to write things they like, we’re here to stop them. Topic Trolls are one reason why certain messaging techniques are used to engage the discussion without enabling what they typically want: attention.
Steve LaBonne
@Stell: What levels of obstruction? Isn’t this what people have been calling for?
Ksmiami
Call your Congress ppl and tell them to fucking fight or step aside. The staffers agree
The Audacity of Krope
@Professor Bigfoot: There are worthy goals in reforming policing in a way that better serves public safety. I never cared about the slogan, I cared about the goals.
Bail reform so we don’t have poor folk in jail awaiting trial. Tax and funding reform so cities aren’t operating police departments as a revenue stream.
Fixating on that slogan erased worthy goals from the conversation and kept the slogan in. Streisand effect in full swing.
Democrats’ war on their own activists has to stop.
Kay
@Steve LaBonne:
Duckworth has been good. She’s really risen to the challenge.
satby
@LAC: Well put. Thanks for that.
satby
@The Audacity of Krope: and you’ve become almost monomaniacal in constant criticism of SC. Why don’t you pie her and move on, because your pushback is getting to be just as obsessive.
glory b
@Ksmiami: I read Josh Marshall saying that the Democrats are speaking out, but that media outlets are downplaying it or not reporting at all. Politico reports that Dems have dug in their heels amid the chaos.
Republicans have the advantage with billionaire owned media outlets and Dems not only not having the equivalent, but being downplayed by much of the mainstream media.
Stella
@Steve LaBonne: Yes, I think some of that is a pretty good start. I’d like the whole caucus to do it for a start, something Schumer specifically pushed back on. I’d like to reiterate I have specific things I’d like to see happen, not just a vague outrage. You can disagree on how realistic or correct they are for this moment, but they’re there
The one item I’ll point and laugh at in that list is Schumer “asking” that the Voight hearing be pushed back. If that’s actually the best you can think of, best to just stay silent.
My earliest statement was hyperbole, because I was just venting. My gripe was is Congress as a whole, which isn’t entirely fair because I do think individuals have done well. But they lack leadership support. That’s my real problem – collectively they’re failing.
The Audacity of Krope
@satby: Hey, I’ve been on here talking about plenty other than her.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Just read that KC has announced the largest TB outbreak since they started tracking such things.
If there’s one thing we all can probably agree on, both in terms of problem and possible solutions, it’s public health issues.
JFC, a TB outbreak in a major US city. How…quaint…and sad…and depressing.
Josie
@satby:
Thank you. I was just trying to figure out how to express that when your comment popped up. From my point of view SC is not the one obsessed.
glory b
@The Audacity of Krope: But BLM folks shot themselves in the foot, not putting together a real organization, branches accusing the founders of financial impropriety, buying a large house in Malibu, etc.
My daughter was locally active at first but said the questionable financial stuff made her back away. That’s what seemed to happen to a lot of initially hopeful people.
MagdaInBlack
@satby: Thank you. Agreed.
Steve LaBonne
@Stella: If you think Schumer has some kind of unilateral power to delay the hearing, please give us an explanation of how that works.
glory b
@Stella: I think Jeffries has been pretty good. I understand he makes daily press announcements, but media attention goes to the Whitehouse firehose of s**t.
given the position of black people in the country right now, he can’t come off as the angry black guy. Another reason I’ve sadly accepted that a white guy may just have to take the lead.
Have you listened to any of his statements? I think they’re good, I can’t think of any member doing better.
SiubhanDuinne
@@mistermix.bsky.social:
Serious question. Supposedly, the chicks and mice were meant as meals for RFKJ’s pet birds of prey. But do hawks and falcons and such even eat puréed … well, anything? I always kind of thought they preferred freshly killed rodents, not chipmunks and nestlings that had been pulsed to a slurry.
It is a sickening and disgusting anecdote, but I’m glad Caroline Kennedy shared it. We need to know what kind of alleged human beings DJT is trying to put in senior positions.
Gretchen
@Professor Bigfoot: FOP withdrew their endorsement of Trump this week after he pardoned 600 people who violently attacked police. Apparently white Trump supporters outrank the help who police the antifa and BLM. FOP never thought that the leapord would eat THEIR faces.
glory b
@satby: If anyone thinks she’s sounding bitter, well, you haven’t spoken to many black people lately.
Sincerely,
A black woman living in a black neighborhood
The Audacity of Krope
That all may be. And it’s regrettable.
Elected officials, however, aren’t subject to what is happening with outside organizations. What I said about proposing a constructive alternative applies a hundred times over with them.
Instead, in effectively disengaging and running away from a slogan, they left it as a cudgel for Republicans to beat them with and did themselves no favors with those who care about the issue.
Stella
@Steve LaBonne: You are not arguing with me. You’re arguing with a hundred people from your past.
Schumer could not stop the hearing. Can not. I agree.
Asking to stop it is just absolutely terrible politics. Looks weak, absolutely would not be followed. Who was that for? Politicians are performing for an audience, and who in the world was the audience for that? TV viewers in the 60s, I think.
What he could do would have been to rally for all No votes today. This is a thing he could have done. He did not choose to do so. And I have no understanding of the political understanding that lead to that decision other than “it’s not how things are done”. Why vote for the nominee of someone who just tried to usurp the entire government?
I don’t trust him to fight the hard battles because he seems to be unwilling to fight the small ones. This is the behavior of someone saving up his political capital, but I have no conception of what he’s saving it for.
I could be surprised! Tomorrow they could come out with a great plan. But I don’t know why that plan wasn’t already made and waiting for the orders that we already knew Trump had waiting.
I am not saying the Congress Dems are worthless and we should give up. I’m saying we she demand more. They are hesitant to push the rope when the arena is already ablaze.
Stella
@glory b: I think his rhetoric is a lot more clear. Unfortunately there is less he can do, just from the nature of the House. If I could start this conversation over again, I would have said Senate Dems instead of Dems in general. That’s where I think the greatest failings are happening.
Gretchen
@The Audacity of Krope: Yes, those are all good goals. But there was only one Dem who actually ran on Defund the Police – Cory Bush, the rep from Ferguson, MO. The rest of Dems ran on reforms like you suggest. You know who made a big deal of Defund? Republicans attacking democrats as soft on crime – this Dem wants to defund the police and let you be murdered in your bed. That’s not smart politics to defer to their attack/framing of your totally reasonable proposal.
Steve LaBonne
If he didn’t make that demand other people would complain about that. The Democrats are always doing it wrong thing gets really old.
SiubhanDuinne
@JoyceH:
My RWNJ Flat-Earther Moon-Landing-was-a-Hoax Doing-My-Own-Vaccine-Research brother was briefly RFKJ-curious several months ago. But then he realised that BobbyJ “believed in post-birth abortion,” so he reverted to supporting TCFFG.
Professor Bigfoot
@Gretchen: No they didn’t, as I found after 30 seconds of googling.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2025/01/28/fraternal-order-police-trump-endorsement-pardons-fact-check/77998110007/
glory b
@The Audacity of Krope: But except in a few cases, policing is under the authority of local government, not federal.
I agree reform was/is needed, but they never clarified how it was to come about.
Kay
@Stella:
Some have been good, even great, a lot of others have been excessively risk averse, IMO. Tammy Duckworth has come forward in a way I like to see – I think she’s stepping into a leadership role. No surprise with her background. The interesting part about bad times is it gives good people a real chance to shine, but of course sticking your head up is always risky.
You could call and encourage them to oppose. I call Marcy Kaptur’s office and try to buck her up – she nearly lost so is one of the more timid members this cycle.
Stella
@Kay: Yeah, when I said my language wasn’t clear before it’s mostly because my initial vent was overly broad. I think there’s lots of good Dems out there, even in Congress, doing good work. I shouldn’t have just said Dems Suck, that of course got necessary push back. Vents are rarely well considered!
But I think specific elements of the leadership don’t understand the game they’re playing. If I started over, I’d make more specific and targeted criticisms.
The Thin Black Duke
Huh. I just got here and Audacity is attacking SC. Figures.
The Audacity of Krope
That’s what we elect Representatives for; to turn these disparate, often opposing, requests and form the best policy for their constituents. And I’ve long been agitating for more attention to local elections, online and in life.
Our leaders should be leading our activists, encouraging a productive direction. Instead they concede to the denigration our activists receive in the media and run away.
Imagine if Democrats reacted as ferociously to our voters being called anarchists or anti-Semites as Republicans did to “deplorable.”
Lobo
@Stella:
I agree. Turtle’s strategy was full on opposition. It worked! Even TPM agrees with that.
glory b
@The Audacity of Krope: But, like I said, policing is under local government jurisdiction. Where do you imagine the locus of federal jurisdiction lies?
Remember, the constitution says all powers not specifically enumerated in it belong to the states
There are about 90,000 local governments in the US.
Lobo
@Kay:
Link please.
matt
Well done, though I have a slight complaint about expressions of this type, because of where we are as a country. Might as well get it out now.
Republicans like assholes, and expressions that say ‘person X is an asshole’ will not get much traction.
Nobody likes a dipshit. You have to make expressions like ‘person X is a dipshit’. And RFK, Jr. is a dipshit. He’s one for profit, but he will bumble and stumble and wreck things with his stupidity like nobody’s business.
I do love this takedown in its own right though, absolutely great in terms of persuasive value to me.
The Audacity of Krope
@glory b: So we needed a lot of leaders to stand up locally everywhere. That didn’t happen. More publicity for past successful reform efforts, wasn’t much of that, but legacy media…
Point is attacking our activists is exactly the wrong approach. Since Bill Clinton, too many Democrats have been foaming at the mouth looking for their respective Sista Souljah moments. Bill Maher has made a whole career complaining about leftists with no power, elective or otherwise, supposedly going too far while Republican governments use state power to censor.
We need to stand up for our folk. We need to stand up for our communities, for our activists, even for our Joe Bidens.
Steve LaBonne
@Lobo: The MINORITY leader has no power to obstruct.
The Audacity of Krope
@The Thin Black Duke: Eh, I’ve been on the sidelines lately. She dragged me off.
Gretchen
@Professor Bigfoot: Thanks for the clarification. So they’re deeply disappointed, but not backtracking. What will it take for them to see that people who want to kill them aren’t on their side? It’s the old strategy: let’s you and him fight, while the people with the power scoop up both of their valuables.
pajaro
@Stella:
I can’t believe you are saying this. The shutdown order was issued yesterday. Multiple lawsuits have already been filed. People are attempting to learn, at the local, state, and national levels, how comprehensive the ban actually is. Politicians have been running to microphones all day. Are you in a state with a Democratic Governor? Have you checked any websites? Any nonprofits that are affected? And if you haven’t heard from someone, has it occurred to you that it might be because they are dealing with some of the other crap that is happening. There are hearings on Kennedy, Patel and Gabbard that are taking place on Thursday. There are Inspectors General who have been fired and have sued. There are DOJ officials who have been fired. Democrats have been silent about exactly NONE of this.
I get it, you want them to make it stop, and they can’t, not because they are failing to try, but because the are in the minority. They don’t control the federal government, they don’t control either House of Congress. They don’t control the Supreme Court. They don’t run the media, who, if you have paid even the slightest bit of attention, you know have gone full on in the tank for Trump.
Please, please, stop attacking the people who are doing their best to fight what is going down.
Steve LaBonne
@pajaro: 🎯
Wag
@The Audacity of Krope:
what a load of bullshit. “Defund the police“ was lousy policy that opened the Democratic Party up to endless unsubstantiated attacks by the GOP, which we were never able to counter. My own suspicion is that the people initially proposing “defund the police“ were probably rat fuckers from the GOP, who played honest and earnest progressives to do their bidding. Going forward, we need to be extremely careful about the slogans we adopt, and when we do adopt slogans, we need to push back hard and immediately against any GOP attempt to flip the script.
TS
@Stella:
I agree also – not one democrat should be voting for these nominees – qualified or not – and most are not.
Wag
@TS: I agree as well.
The Audacity of Krope
@Wag: Again. I’m not defending the slogan. I’m saying their reaction to the slogan kept it in the conversation and pushed aside worthy reform efforts.
They reacted defensively instead of engaging constructively and, duly, won points with exactly no one.
matt
@Wag: https://x.com/briebriejoy/status/1783975232853664230
TONYG
@Gretchen: Wow. OK, that would screw up anyone psychologically. (Eleven kids??? I’m so glad that I quit the Catholic Church when I was a teenager.). So I guess that explains why RFK Junior is so screwed up. But, yes, he should not be in charge of anything more influential than a convenience store.
Darkrose
@Steve LaBonne: McConnell seemed to do a pretty good job.
Steve LaBonne
@Darkrose: As MAJORITY leader. Otherwise only via the filibuster which the Democrats are most certainly using- Republicans will pass no legislation except via reconciliation.
Gretchen
@matt: brie brie joy isn’t a mainstream Democrat or anyone who speaks for the Democratic Party. She’s one of those people who is nominally on our side but stands outside the tent pissing in.
artem1s
@Stella:
Actual governing does not happen in front of cameras. Just because you don’t ‘see’ them doing ‘something’ does not mean they are doing nothing. Performance Art gets lots of buzz and cameras. But it means that time is spent being a performance artist and not a legislator.
Steve LaBonne
@artem1s: As I said on an earlier thread, the hankering for performance art on the left as well as the right is both a symptom and an element of the degeneration of our political culture.
matt
@Gretchen: Oh don’t I know it. Kind of was agreeing with Wag.
George
@TONYG:
Psychopaths like Bobby Jr. are born, not made.
Miss Bianca
@Steve LaBonne: Really? Isn’t that what Mitch McConnell is famous for?
Steve LaBonne
@Miss Bianca: Which part of “as MAJORITY leader” are you having trouble understanding? The only tool the minority has is the filibuster and the Democrats are using it, most recently to block a bill purporting to sanction the ICC.
frosty
Open thread: I want to thank all the commenters in the earlier thread:
De-Facto Shutdown
I asked awhile ago for a script for my Senators and Congressman. Reading through the comments, I got what I needed. Thanks to everyone. If you’re interested, this is what I came up with (sorry, it’s long.)
brantl
@Steve LaBonne: That’s Hillbilly Eulogy.
brantl
@@mistermix.bsky.social: They’re a plus for the MAGATs.
brantl
@Stella: get real. They can bang drums, they can durm und strang; that’s it.
brantl
@The Audacity of Krope: Pick every fight that deserves to be picked, and if you’re a Democrat, the least we can ask for is tgat the don’t vote for criminals (e.g., all Stumpy’s nominees).
brantl
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: The Democratic Party as a whole characterized it exactly like that, on multiple occasions.
brantl
@Professor Bigfoot: Of what use is it to play the full symphony to the choir?
glory b
@frosty: McConnell was the majority leader after the midterms, so of course he was able to obstruct.
Schumer is not.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Audacity of Krope: We were talking about that awful slogan that got the white supremacists all riled up when we Black folks KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN.
Why is it y’all refuse to recognize when white people are stupid fucking assholes even when they‘re “on our side?”
Like the “pro Palestinians” who told us we should vote against our own best interests for the sake of people on the other side of the world.
Y’all just fucking REFUSE to ever listen to Black people, and IT SHOWS.
brantl
@The Audacity of Krope: If the slogan had been stop the hostile-militarization of the police, how do you think the normy public would have reacted? Because I think that mirrors the correct goal and intent.