The New York Times is truly an embarrassment.
Paper of record? Nope. Toilet paper? Closer!
More detail from Paul Krugman.
Nothing we didn’t already know, or suspect, but I’m glad to have him state it so damn clearly.
Everyone who speaks out is a role model for the rest of us. Before pressing PUBLISH on this post, I checked to make sure I wouldn’t be stepping on anyone. And there was the story from mistermix about Caroline Kennedy.
Profiles in courage, indeed.
The Audacity of Krope
Just tested. Somehow worse at wiping asses than providing information.
They’ve had so much practice wiping Trump’s ass too.
Baud
That’s not the BJ way.
Chris
Like I said a few threads ago, I’m really impressed and mildly surprised that he was able to hang on at the New York Times for a whole quarter century; it was very clear from early on that the Times didn’t get what they thought they were getting, and weren’t happy with the change.
Good on him and may he write many more columns.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
I’m interested in his description of the edit layer(ing).
When I was an intel officer at the Pentagon, we wrote for a daily “publication” at the Secret level that went out to a broad audience.
We had one “expert” layer of editing, our boss. Then things went to actual editors who were there for quality control on the writing side, not the “expertise” side. For the most part, it was as Krugs describes, light, mainly because the people creating the content, me and my fellow intel officers, had been hired not only for our area expertise but our ability to analyze well and write well.
But, if one was writing for a specific higher level audience, I would on occasion have to write on topics where the finished product would be going straight to the SecDef, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, etc., man-oh-man was the editing layers more, different and at times bizarre. Sounds just like what Krugs describes although he infers there was an agenda/policy angle/element behind his editing whereas mine was a certain amount of risk aversion (“We can’t tell the SecDef something that might be wrong!”).
My story and Krugs are somewhat apples and oranges because our high level material was created so that “leadership” could make the best-informed policy decisions. Krugs was an opinion writer. I’d be curious if his conservative counterparts at FTFNYT felt the same way about editorial “intrusion” on their work.
Ruckus
Paper of record? Nope. USED toilet paper? Closer!
FIXITFY
They unroll it and used it exactly as toilet paper is meant to be used……
The Audacity of Krope
NYT editor: This is good, but can you ramp up the cruelty a bit?
Citizen Alan
@Ruckus: Comparing the new york times to toilet paper is an insult to toilet paper. Quality toilet paper is capable of cleaning up shit. All the new york times is good for is spreading it around more.
The Audacity of Krope
This. Metaphorically and literally, both.
Jackie
O/T and a FAUX report, so not providing a link:
I can’t follow anymore media tonight. I’m about to stroke out with burning anger.
Chris
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
IIRC, your counterparts at CIA during the eighties faced an interesting form of quality control; whenever Director Casey didn’t like his analysts’ conclusions, he’d simply rewrite them to match his own worldview, and hand that in to the NSC as “intelligence.”
azlib
The portrait removal is just plain stupid politically. The military thrives on tradition and removing MIlley’s portrait will not sit well with the rank and file.
Josie
I listened to Krugman’s conversation with economist Noah Smith and was fascinated by the breadth and depth of his knowledge. It is amazing that the FTFNYT was willing to let him go. It just proves how venal and stupid they really are.
WaterGirl
Curious which background on the substack box is easier on the eyes on various devices – computers, tablets, phones. I tried both for comparison. I like happy colors and am not a big fan of gray, but I think the gray might be better for readability?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Chris:
CIA, I regularly had shouting matches with their analysts over the years, was, most definitely, the most “we have a specific policy agenda” types that rubbed the other DOD agencies (and service entities) the wrong way.
My story was more about how editorial layering can differ depending on the audience and mutate.
And I’ve become less a fan of Krugs over the years as he’s cozied up with neoliberal horsemen of the apocalypse like Noah Smith, aka No Opinion.
Geminid
@Jackie: I look forward to General Milley’s memoirs. He will put out his side of the story; Trump’s minions have been dumping shit on Milley for five years and he will respond.
I expect Mark Milley will state his account of Trump and his henchmen “with the bark on,” as they say.
zhena gogolia
@Geminid: He’s on the right side of history. If there will be any history. Trump can plaster his portrait on whatever he wants, he’s still a monster.
Nelle
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I’ll repeat, which I hope you will forgive me for, that my daughter, as a stringer for the NYTimes, was asked to get someone to say “x” or “y.” The narrative was set in New York. Maybe the story was written. She was just supposed to supply a name to attach to the quote that they wanted.
Bupalos
Is there some link to the Caroline Kennedy thing that isn’t tied to a monetization platform?
I don’t “have instagram” or whatever and every 22 seconds the thing stops and tries to get me to sign up for something.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Nelle:
Thanks for the reminder, I now remember you relating that story at some point over the last several months. Maybe this time it’ll stick. ;)
It’s telling. And that’s an understatement.
TKH
Shortly they will be editing images in which both the convicted felon president and General Miley can be seen in the same frame and removing Milley the way Stalin had done with people he had purged.
Interesting times.
raven
A metro Atlanta resident who was not vaccinated has been diagnosed with measles, the highly infectious disease that used to be on the wane. The disease can be fatal, and most of the patients that measles kills are children under 5 years old.
The patient’s age was not disclosed in the public announcement.
Jackie
@azlib: The removal of General Milley’s portraits is pure pettiness.
What upsets me is removing his personal security detail. He has an enormous bullseye on his back, thanks to FFOTUS. I’m also not ruling out trumped up charges of Milley being accused of treason.
Harrison Wesley
@TKH: I don’t think the general will mind.
Tom Levenson
@Jackie: So wildly over promoted rapist drunk is triggered by a much better human than he will ever be.
The photo of Hesgeth patting the CJCS on the shoulder at the link is amazing. CJCS looks incredibly unhappy at his circumstances.
TKH
@Harrison Wesley: Touché!
FelonyGovt
@WaterGirl: I think a gray background would be easier to read.
Ohio Mom
@Bupalos: The entire letter is included in the post below this one.
RSA
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: How cool. Thanks for the info about writing for readers in positions of power.
Ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
Great minds think alike!!
I was trying to be a tad coy…..
Most major papers have a rather large cost just to produce the product which is waste the next (or SAME) day. News print, the press, the operators, editors, the expectations of the owners – bank wise, now add in the cost of staff and a uber wealthy owner or corporation and that if they piss off too many people they can/will be out of business. It is like any company, there are a lot of points of conflict from inception to having a large bank account. Which is the most desired part of any company/corporation. (I say this as the prior owner of 2 businesses) What you do is the methodology of making that money, how you do it and who purchases the outcome is what fills that bank account. And any business, from kids KoolAid stand to a world wide whatever, is in the business of making money, in at least a minimum profit level, but higher is always preferred.
rodwell
All these Trump appointees act as maladjusted children. Removing Milley portraits is so petty. Removing his security detail is just criminal. I saw a clip of Trump’s press secretary press conference about the price of eggs. Her comment about President Biden were impertinent and petty. But they are like the Trump supporters that I know. Just shallow and mean people who are not very bright.
Professor Bigfoot
I haven’t read the comment thread (yet.)
But what I’ve heard elsewhere on this fine blog plus reading this piece made me go subscribe to The Contrarian.
Gotta support real journalism, and real courage.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
They seem pretty good, but I really detest that name.
The Audacity of Krope
I’m intrigued. I went looking for this outlet, I only found any presence on Facebook. Do they have a website?
The Audacity of Krope
When common nonsense is deemed to be common sense, contrarianism sure seems sensible.
Ruckus
@azlib:
I’ve been out of the USN for over 50 yrs and it still pisses me off. And the closest I got to officer was saluting them.
That’s not to say I appreciated all of the officers I met or served under, but that’s humanity, in a normal non combat day some were complete and utter assholes. But then so were some enlisted. As there are in most any large group of humans. But I also met some who were actual leaders, who actually respected the people that worked under them and who knew far more about the ship that they operated, repaired and maintained than any officer I knew.
TBone
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I have a whole new, additional perspective about you now – thank you for sharing!
MomSense
OT but our governor is about to deliver our state of the state and our Senate President who I got through all the bullshit to get elected her first campaign are on my fucking tv and I am rejoicing!
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Substack
https://contrarian.substack.com/
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: I hear folk here talking about substack all the time. Thanks for the link.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Krugman is on sub stack too. But sub stack is somewhat controversial because they also host fascist writers.
The Audacity of Krope
As long as I wouldn’t somehow support a fascist writer directly by subscribing to a non-fascist one, I could personally live with that.
I’m pretty strident on freedom of speech issues, actually. Though not in the “Nazis deserve promotion and liberals/leftists mustn’t even talk about issues let alone politicians” mode that Muskrat promotes.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
I don’t think so, but I don’t know how their revenue works.
Eric S.
@RSA: In my job at an investor owned utility I am regularly asked to contribute to and/or write reports. The editing definitely varies by ultimate audience. The higher up the good chain it goes the less details that are presented.
Gretchen
@Nelle: Interesting. In my paranoia I speculated this. It’s interesting to have my worst suspicion confirmed.
Gretchen
@MomSense: what state?
SiubhanDuinne
@Jackie:
How in the star-spangled fuck is it even possible to be so mean-spirited and just petty?
Jay
https://www.jefftiedrich.com/p/befuddled-old-fart-claims-brilliant, covers the taps insanity and the attempts at sane washing by the FTF US “News” Media.
Another Scott
Well done, Prof. Krugman.
Meanwhile, …
As usual, Donnie is just making crap up and expecting everyone else to jump and make him happy.
Grr…
Best wishes,
Scott.
FelonyGovt
@SiubhanDuinne: I don’t claim clairvoyance and I’m still pretty pessimistic, but I’m beginning to get the feeling that the FO part of the FAFO is coming (hopefully soon) for the Orange Emperor and his idiot minions. Fingers crossed.
Sister Golden Bear
Meanwhile, after last night’s order to ban trans people from the military, today Felon 47 issues an EO to end trans health for trans kids.
If it survives the inevitable court challenges, I guarantee you that they’ll come for trans healthcare for adults next.
As Erin in the Morning said about the military EO:
TONYG
Krugman’s columns were one of the few worthwhile things in the New York Times. Now, in effect, they forced him to quit. Mission Accomplished.
Stella
@The Audacity of Krope: Substack is hard because they are propping up terrible people, but good people too. It’s legitimately a thorny issue which I don’t blame someone no matter which side they fall on. The fact there’s no real replacement makes it worse.
At this point on the Internet, the question of what platform you use is really just a matter of picking your poison.
Eduardo
@Josie: thank you for letting me know about this chat between Noah Smith and Paul Krugman. I am a fan of both. Yep, I am a neolib, used to have the globe icon near my handle when I was in Twitter lol.
link to the chat: https://substack.com/@noahpinion/note/p-155788070?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=7zfn2
FelonyGovt
@Sister Golden Bear: Serious and sincere question, what can the rest of us do to support trans people at this time? The other day you mentioned patronizing businesses that hired trans people- is there some way to know what businesses those are?
MomSense
@Gretchen:
Maine
Josie
@Baud:
From what I gathered listening to Krugman, each writer decides how to differentiate their free offerings from their paid ones. He said he didn’t originally intend to make a living from what he was writing, since he was not hurting financially. He later decided to add some content for paid subscriptions but to keep most of his content free.
Josie
@Eduardo: You are welcome. I found it a very interesting conversation.
Steve LaBonne
On the topic of genuinely independent journalism, you won’t see a headline and column like this in FTFNYT or Democracy Killed by Bezos. Please consider supporting the Guardian.
Sister Golden Bear
@FelonyGovt: I’m not aware of any list of businesses employing trans people — and at this point, such a list would be a really bad idea. So encouraging businesses that do so is probably more of an opportunistic thing, if you run across one.
The bigger need now is raising your voice against the trans pogrom in progress. At only 1 percent of the population, we really need help from allies to fight this.
TBone
@Josie: The Contrarian introductory email upon subscribing stated that, if you cannot afford a subscription, to contact them because they wanted everyone to be able to read their various content.
FelonyGovt
@Sister Golden Bear: As I wrote that question I kind of realized that such a list would be a REALLY bad idea right now. Thanks for your response.
RevRick
Way off topic, but if you read one book this year, make it Cole Arthur Riley’s This Here Flesh. She’s a young black poet/author who completely blows me away with her honesty and vulnerability.
NotMax
FYI.
Tim Walz will be on Maddow’s show today.
trollhattan
Fucking great, now billionaires will have a new way to torment us.
https://www.twz.com/air/boom-the-xb-1-demonstrator-jet-has-gone-supersonic
First megayachts, now this. Whee!
Sister Golden Bear
@trollhattan: If only our bored billionaires could find a useful hobby, like capturing the most detailed images of snowflakes on record.
Citizen Alan
@SiubhanDuinne: All republicans are trash. I think it was Kay who said, and I fully agree, that there are no republicans left who have any redeeming qualities whatsoever. Just pure unadulterated trash.
Chris
@Citizen Alan:
Republicans have managed to turn “Hitler was nice to his dog” from a stock joke mocking the meaninglessness of redeeming features for certain people, into an actual meaningful statement about people going so far down the edgelord hole that they don’t, in fact, have even that much of a meaningless redeeming feature.
(See Donald Trump and Kristi Noem in different ways).
Gloria DryGarden
@Bupalos: I saw it on blue sky.
Dahlia
@Sister Golden Bear: Those are lovely.
Here’s another photographer specializing in snowflakes.
https://www.donkom.ca/