I googled around for some clarity on Trump’s threatened 25% tariffs against Canada and Mexico, which are supposed to go into effect tomorrow, and all I found was various argle-bargle from him and his minions that’s all over the place. Apparently, the excuse for tariffs is blaming Mexico and Canada for fentanyl coming into the country, and at one point Trump said that oil might be excluded. Here’s a CNN piece on tariffs which is as speculative as anything else I found.
Of course, that kind of chaos and unpredictability is part of the plan to cow our North American neighbors. I don’t think they’re going to be cowed, for a couple of reasons. Let’s start with Mexico, our biggest trading partner from the numbers I’ve seen. As recently as Wednesday, President Claudia Sheinbaum has said that she doesn’t think that tariffs will happen, and also that Mexico has a plan “that I’ll reveal in due course.” Claudia has consistently de-escalated when Trump has tried to escalate.
This is an interesting look into what kind of a leader and politician Sheinbaum is. This is one of multiple trips that she’s taken through Mexico to greet crowds. She is absolutely fearless. She travels in a SUV that doesn’t appear to be armored, wades through crowds with minimal security, travels in a motorcade of a couple of cars with no obvious military presence, hugs and kisses everyone. And the people turning out — you can’t fake this kind of a positive turnout. She’s immensely popular in her country, she just passed the 100 day mark of her Presidency with the economy doing well and the lowest unemployment rate in the world.
Does that mean tariffs won’t hurt Mexico in general and Claudia in particular? Of course not, but there’s also a matter of not being bullied by Trump, which leads us to Canada.
That’s Ontario Premier (~Governor) Doug Ford, who just called snap elections in his province because “We need a mandate from the people to fight against Donald Trump’s tariffs.” Ontario is the economic powerhouse of Canada, 38% of overall GDP, and the biggest exports are cars, mechanical equipment and precious metals. Ford is being called “Captain Canada” in the media, and he’s stepped into the media spotlight after Justin Trudeau resigned and prorogued Parliament. He’s chair of the Council of the Federation, which is like the Governor’s conference in the US.
I don’t like Doug Ford, just to be clear, because he’s a Tory who is stinking up my favorite place in Canada, but the politics here are obvious. Trump’s 51st state bullshit has spawned a backlash in Canada, and the Tories there have reverted from being Trump-curious to being hard nationalists. Ford has already vowed to clear all US alcohol off of the shelves of the provincial-run liquor stores in Ontario (that’s all of them) with the specific intent to harm Kentucky’s bourbon distillers. (To be clear, I’m singling out Ford as an interesting example for the politics of this shitshow, but Trudeau’s government is still in power and they certainly will have a plan for retaliatory tariffs.)
Canada and Mexico have immense power to make Trump look bad and to inflict economic pain on the US. Those are two separate yet related things, by the way. Trump can look bad when neither Canada nor Mexico crumbles into a stance of bowing down before Daddy Donald — there’s just zero percentage in Sheinbaum, Ford and Trudeau’s government to project anything but defiance. I think Trump looking bad will precede any economic impact, because he’ll probably pull some punches on the details of the tariffs (like oil).
I’m going to refrain from high-fiving and spiking the ball the minute that Trump’s tariffs go into effect, and Canada and Mexico retaliate, because it’s going to be a mess that will be mainly reported by Fox and the complaint US media. But every Democrat should be calling this a “Trump Tax” the minute those tariffs go into effect, and I don’t see this turning out well, at all, for Trump.
stinger
With Biden, I thought we might be able to regain our place in world leadership, but after two non-consecutive terms of the US being a non-trustworthy bully, that era will be over for good. We will never fully regain the trust of our two closest neighbors, or that of Denmark or Greenland or Panama, among many others.
lowtechcyclist
The obvious accompaniment to this theme from the late, great Tom Petty.
martha
I’m going to be really curious to see if Chrystia Freeland can get the non-Tories behind her run for PM. She and Sheinbaum would make quite the north/south tag team against Donnie and his DEI bs.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
If they go into effect, talk is very cheep with this administration. Also, don’t be surprised if Trump flat out lies to his base and claims there are tariffs when there isn’t.
Raoul Paste
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
‘ don’t be surprised if Trump flat out lies to his base….’
That would be the least surprising thing ever
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
100% agree. We don’t always see eye to eye on these “prescriptions for Dems”, but this one ought to be obvious and universally applicable.
Rose Judson
Thanks for the info from Mexico and Canada. Most of the usual suspects on the hard right over here seem to have gone pretty quiet since Musk’s Nazi salute last week. You’d think someone, anyone, would be speaking up for a major member of the Commonwealth of Nations when its neighbour is muttering threats, but no. Not even a peep from the King.
Quinerly
Speaking of Canada. One of my best friends out here just messaged me early this AM. Her sister and BIL live in New England. Her sister’s Canadian husband has a green card and was picked up by ICE for deportation at his home after work in front of his children yesterday. Apparently, he has two fights on a record ……one was supposedly self-defense. He has a small business that supports my friend’s sister and her mother. Successful per my friend.
And, don’t get me started about what I hear is happening here in New Mexico. Families being ripped apart.
Anthony
I agree with this, Trump is weak, and we have no appetite for price increases, whereas Canadian and Mexican leaders can be seen by their voters as fighting a bully.
NotMax
“ICE raids Costco stores nationwide, seizing packages of Canadian Bacon and sending them to Guantánamo.”
//
mali muso
@Quinerly: WTAF? Even people who did all the paperwork the “legal” way (aka green card) are going to be rounded up now? The mind boggles. I’m glad my husband got his citizenship, but I’m always apprehensive that this evil regime will be going after naturalized citizens next.
Barbara
@Quinerly: Does he have an actual conviction? Anyone with an actual felony conviction who is not a citizen is technically subject to deportation. I hope he is able to work it out.
Cathie from Canada
Canada is also furious about the “51st state” business — we are all refusing to buy any American products now whenever we can, and shopping at Canadian-owned companies whereever possible. Trudeau is promising we will tarrif our products (lumber, oil, minerals, agriculture) in equal measure if Trump breaks the trade agreement he himself signed and actually follows through with his ridiculous threats, though the Alberta premier (a conservative, of course) is sucking up to Trump.
On a side note, Trudeau has announced he is stepping down so we are now in a Liberal leadership race, and after a year when the federal Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre topped Trudeau by 20+ points, the polls are now pulling even because Canadians are not happy with how Poilievre appeared to knuckle under to Trump threats. Poilievre wanted to run an election on taxes – always a popular way to grab the voters — but instead the federal election everyone is expecting after a new Liberal leader is chosen will likely be run on Canadian independence, so the Liberals may well pull off another win.
Dave
@mali muso: It’s something that I fully expect especially if they start to feel on the back foot (also especially if they think they are succeeding so overdetermined?) have a close friend who is naturalized but was born in Colombia and I worry about it because ICE and respecting rights and the law let alone the dignity of people doesn’t exactly have a lot of overlap in my mind.
Lobo
A thought occurred to me, how can you discuss history, intl. affairs, science, etc., if DEI is banned? Race is always there. In Prez. Rape’s mind his version is only white history, but it is still talking about race, never mind the roots of Thanksgiving and others. Do teachers just say “The pilgrims met with others who were not them” because you cannot say Native American? Also, is it wrong to now mention the Prez of Mexico is a woman and Mexican?
David Collier-Brown
A side point re the effectiveness of tariffs: In Mr Trumps’ first term, he used tariffs against China. The yaun fell a bit, and the CCP sent it lower by devaluing it against the US dollar. See also https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/chinese-authorities-are-considering-weaker-yuan-trump-trade-risks-loom-sources-2024-12-11/
Net result?
– Chinese exports to the US became cheaper, and rose.
– US exports to China became more expensive, and fell.
Gee, that sounds a lot like the U.S. starting a “don’t buy American,it’s too expensive” campaign in Canada and Mexico. If the tariffs devalue the loonie and the peso against the US dollar, he may not get what he expects (:-))
Ariobarzanes
@Dave: Google “Operation Second Look”—Stephen Miller’s denaturalization operation during the first Trump administration. Expect him to implement a new version on steroids in the near future.
cain
If I were Columbia, Canada, and Mexico even if Trump pulls back his tariffs they should keep the tariffs until Trump issues an apology. Make him kneel. Otherwise keep it going.
cain
I think his tariffs is going to his biggest weakness. There is no one to blame but Trump here. Every country is going to start looking for ways to punish this administration. It’s the one way to get the administration to come to heel under international pressure. He’ll back off because it makes him look bad, but he making him do an apology will absolutely piss him off and make him make another mistake. He’s easily led.
Also, by doing all this – the rest of the world is working on an economy where the U.S. is less of an issue – especially with the EU working on “digital independence”. Google really shit the bed when they bent the knee to Trump and renamed the Gulf of Mexico.
Miss Bianca
@Quinerly: btw, Axios is reporting that Native Americans are getting hassled in ICE raids. I wonder if this is what the head of the Navajo Nation thinks is part of Trump’s “Golden Age.”
oldgold
So far, the second Trump administration appears to running on a plan concocted in the male freshman dorm late on Friday night to be executed Saturday night at 11:30 PM by the Beta Beta Fraternity.
mali muso
@Ariobarzanes: That’s what has me worried, because I remember them trying it during the end of the first reign of error.
Quinerly
@Barbara:
I asked her to clarify. I had no experience with immigration law in my old practice. Sorta know some basics, though. She messaged me back. Seems he does have a conviction for this fight several years ago. He’s in his 50’s.
YY_Sima Qian
@David Collier-Brown: The PRC’s share of all US imports fell significantly after the Trump tariffs (that Biden kept, we ought to remember), even if Chinese export to the US rose a bit on absolute terms. However, it turns out that Chinese exports simply rerouted through 3rd parties, by transshipment, relabeling or final assembly. US dependence on Chinese goods did not decrease, but the new patterns of trade integrated SE Asian economies more tightly into the Sino-centric supply chain & industrial ecosystem.
A Ghost to Most
@lowtechcyclist:
I’m inclined to go with “Lunatic Fringe” by Red Rider (Tom Cochrane).
Quinerly
@Miss Bianca:
I saw that Axios report. Trying to take a break from mainlining this shit today. Will poke around on line for statements, info tomorrow.
I wish dexwood would show up. His wife is Laguna Pueblo.
cain
@Miss Bianca:
The fact that native american men voted for Trump is the worst self-own. These people should know the years of history of conservatives and the GOP against native indians.
Steve LaBonne
@Cathie from Canada: That’s really good news. Fingers tightly crossed.
YY_Sima Qian
Since this is Open Thread, here is a fascinating & poignant essay on the mass infusion of “TikTok refugees” into RedNote, from a sociological perspective. Academic, but a fun & thought provoking read. Definitely rings true to my own experience on RedNote over the past week+.
Steve LaBonne
@cain: The attraction he has for so many people is a complete mystery to me. He is nothing but the pathetic little lying whiny loser that we just saw in his press conference.
CaseyL
@Cathie from Canada: That was something President Sheinbaum referenced as well – the trade agreement Trump signed which (IIRC) replaced NAFTA…?
Trump breaking his own agreement is nothing new – I can’t think of any instance at all, ever, where he’s kept his word – but he’s used to dealing with entities that knuckle under to him.
Hopefully Mexico and Canada have the stamina to go long on this one.
‘ETA: If Trump tanks the US economy, as seems likely sooner than later, no one will care about trading with us.
Miss Bianca
@Quinerly: Isn’t Dex going through some health issues right now? But yeah, I worry about him *and* his wife.
That reminds me, I should check in with some of the Pueblo folks I know, but since my prime source of contact with them is Facebook, and I’ve been avoiding FB like the proverbial plague since Jan 20, it may be a while before I get through to them.
Steve LaBonne
Skum wanting to get his grubby mitts on the Federal payment system should set off a hell of a lot of alarm bells.
Eunicecycle
@Lobo: and Jewish!
call_me_ishmael
Trump may have accidentally saved Canada from itself. Now that Trudeau’s out, the front runner to replace him as liberal leader is Mark Carney – a technocrat centrist central banker.
Poilievre, the Tory candidate, is a Ted Cruz type agitator who has been running a republican funded negative campaign for about 4 years. He’s managed to hound Trudeau out of office, and built a big lead by appealing to Socons and low info voter types with empty sloganeering and dog whistling.
However, now Trump’s managed to get everyone rallying ’round the flag up here, Poilievre looks a bit squishy on Trump and Carney et al have seen double digit swings in the polls. Canadians are pissed at Trump and ready to fight. Trudeau’s leaving in 2 months and DGAF. Expect some fireworks as all of the Liberals compete to be tougher on Trump in the runup to the leadership.
Trump may be the ultimate saviour of our Dominion from the RW scourge.
CaseyL
@Steve LaBonne:
That’s the story I had in mind when I said Trump would tank the US economy sooner rather than later. He and Musk will simply loot everything, and not care about what happens afterward.
Miss Bianca
@cain: Gotta admit, when I heard that Native American men were going for Trump and that there was complaining that the Biden Administration had “done nothing” for them, my first thought was, “my dudes, where the hell have you been and what the hell have you been smoking?”
Oh well. I guess they’re just among the many, many who are going to get what they voted for (or refused to vote against) good and hard.
Kay
My youngest son is a Lefty who votes for Democrats as his only option, and we were talking about the move Right among young men – which, incidentally, he noticed and told me about prior to 2024. He graduates college this year. He’s 22.
He said he finds he’s really comfortable being unfashionably liberal now – that he’s finding it helps him clarify his own ideological beliefs – WHY he’s on the Left. I wonder if he’s comfortable out of the mainstream because he grew up in a very Right wing county in a red state as an out and proud Lefty. He’s never been fashionable, always been pushing against a Right wing tide.
Anyway, we joked that once being far Right is mainstream ( as it is now) it will become uncool and all the weak minded, fad following “thinkers” will tack back Left.
MaryRC
@Lobo: The “others who were not them” won’t be mentioned at all, they will simply be erased. There were no Wampanoag Native Americans at the first Thanksgiving. The Pilgrims held a harvest feast to celebrate learning to grow maize all by themselves.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@call_me_ishmael: Like we were saying the last time around, their only saving grace is their incompetence.
The sooner it brings them low, the better.
Kosh III
We have good friends in Vancouver and they are planning to NOT buy anything made in the US if possible.
Premier Ford should also specifically target Tennessee whiskey: Jack Daniels. Our Regressive governor is a major ass licker for the Felon. Jack Daniels recently backed off of it’s DEI policy.
Miss Bianca
@call_me_ishmael:
You’re welcome…?
RaflW
Jared fucking Golden — a man so shitty I had to demand (and got) a refund of my 2024 donation prior to the elex — has come out in favor of these tariffs. As if Maine is somehow geographically and economically insulated from Canada? WTF.
The Democratic Party is a massive shitwagon. I’m so, so god dammed mad.
Kay
I think media and the Right really glorifying violence against women and the Trump hires who are perps (including Trump of course) and Right wingers raising sons who abuse women can only benefit liberal or centrist young men who were not raised to admire bad men who abuse women, men like Hegseth or Trump or RFK Jr.
Princess
Of course Mexico and Canada will retaliate. What other choice do they have? Do Americans seriously think they have some other option? And we (Canadians) already know how Canada will retaliate.
Matt McIrvin
During Trump’s first term Mexico elected AMLO who seems to have been, uh, disappointing. They’ve got a good one this time around and she seems bent on giving Trump more trouble.
TBone
I want my pink granite tombstone to read
Another deguello in tribute to Claudia.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fOKtbJfNLFk
Quinerly
@Miss Bianca:
I debated about dumping FB. My circle is so small. I really need it to keep up with music friends and St. Louis and NC peeps. Just can’t cut my nose off to spite my face as we say in the South.
I am blocking ads and not clicking on anything but friend’s posts, news sites that I trust, and the private “specialized” groups I am in.
Most of the info I am getting re NAs is on FB thru confirmed and truthful sources in the silversmithing/jewelry community of artists who I know personally.
Princess
Of course Mexico and Canada will retaliate. What other choice do they have? Do Americans seriously think they have some other option? And we (Canadians) already know how Canada will retaliate.
What Canada gets from retaliation will go to help people harmed by the US tariffs. What the US gets for tariffs will be spent on billionaires.
Princess
I’m in line at a grocery store in Montreal and the people behind me are discussing tariffs.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: When your side is in power, you feel responsible for every shitty thing they do. If they’re out, you don’t.
I think that’s part of the reason so many people on the left refuse to identify with the Democratic Party or even support their candidates. We have a strong emotional need to keep our hands clean, to the point of self-sabotage. I feel it myself. It makes us more morally comfortable being in the minority.
Geminid
@RaflW: Jared Golden is one out of 215 Democratic Representatives.
NotMax
@Eunicecycle
Sombrero trick!
:)
Matt McIrvin
@Miss Bianca: I saw him trying to dismiss the early reports as unsubstantiated rumors.
Thor Heyerdahl
I have a flight connection with United in a month, but after that I have zero plans for any US vacations while the orange airhorn is in office. I have gone out of my way in the last 2 weeks to check country of origin for products.
I wonder how large the global celebrations will be when the Nero Naranja passes away.
TBone
@Miss Bianca:
@call_me_ishmael:
Bwahahaha! Made my day better!
New Deal democrat
Since Election Day, the trade weighted US$ is up 3%. Typically when it is up 5% or more a year, the US trade balance and GDP suffer. It is currently up 7.3% YoY, and has been up over 5% YoY since right after Election Day:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=1Djrh
Paul Krugman and Greg Mankiw disagree on a lot of things, but one thing they agree on is that tariffs are self-defeating, in large part because of the above dynamic.
How quickly the effects show up depends very much upon how quickly and broadly other countries retaliate.
But, and I realize I am just reiterating what others have said, is that there is *zero* political benefit to any foreign politician appearing to knuckle under to T—-p (see, e.g. Trudeau), and much benefit to gain from stiff-arming him (see, e.g., Columbia). During his first term there was a benefit to making nice and figuring the US would return to its senses in four years, but that is now off the table.
@Rose Judson:
Where it is different is with T—-p’s threats of military aggression. Trade retaliation is just economic tit for tat, but given T—-p’s history of always escalating until he thinks he will lose, there is great danger for the UK or the EU to make noises about defending Greenland or for that matter Canada – because T—-p would immediately escalate. The best play at this point is to be very quiet and hope that the petulant child continues to be distracted by other self-inflicted disasters. If he does escalate, a few quiet moves like the UK, France, and Germany moving a small trip-wire force in place, while working diplomatically with cooperative Congressional types and flag officers in the Pentagon, stressing that any such orders by T—-p would be illegal, is probably better.
Old Man Shadow
Wait, you mean other countries have pride and patriotism and react the same way we would to a foreign power trying to bully them and humiliate them?
What kind of madness is this?
TBone
@Thor Heyerdahl: thx for teaching me a new word today.
NotMax
@TBone
Tombstone inscription?? Chosen many moons ago. In very small font:
If you can read this you’re standing on my head.
:)
TBone
@Quinerly: my volunteer Viet Nam vet dad had formal plans made to get my brother to Canada in the event of a military draft. Can this person do an underground railroad type thing like that, or are they in custody?
Goddamn it. My best hopes go with you and yours and everyone affected. We need to dig a tunnel and spirit people away to safety.
Steve LaBonne
@New Deal democrat: Never again will other countries treat the US as a good ally that will return to sanity in due time. We are a rogue state and will permanently be regarded that way. As Macron said, Europe cannot entrust its security to a few thousand voters in Wisconsin.
RaflW
@stinger: & @cain: Put these two points together, and I can pretty easily see a path forward where the US loses its preeminence in the global economy. Not that we’d immediately be eclipsed in terms of GDP, but Trumpism gives up an absolute (metric) fuckton of soft power and, ‘strategic bitcoin stockpile’ notwithstanding, may push the rest of the world to at least start weaning off the dollar as the global trade instrument.
It’s just boggling my mind how much damage these folks are unleashing in short oder. Part of that is what appears to be Musk working to gain control of the literal payments processing systems of federal disbursements and payroll. Even just the hiccup of pausing a ton of grants is going to start rippling thru the domestic economy.
Any bigger fuckery and we’ll veer into a recession shockingly quickly, IMO. The gov’t is about 23% of GDP! And that’s not including multiplier effects.
Spanish Moss
Love that typo!
Gvg
@cain: i have been thinking about that and i think we have to keep in mind that other groups aren ‘t inferior to whites but they aren’t superior either. They have their fools, racists, criminals, lazy thinkers and all the rest. Just like its unfair to expect every black prominent person to apologize for every notable criminal its unreasonable to expect any minority group to all be wise and historically sophisticated. 5g
Steve LaBonne
@Spanish Moss: The media are a “complaint” in the sense of a deleterious health condition.
TBone
@NotMax: I adore you and yes I am flirting with disaster hahahaha!
🎶 The lyrics are on time!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta5hPRmxo8k
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Lobo:
I’m sure public school curriculum in noted edumucational hot spots like OK, TX, AL and other states will show us exactly how that’s done.
It’s basically taking us back to the 60s and much of the 70s in terms of ignoring race in practically everything. Hell, the only black scientist who ever made it into the crapload of public school curricula I experienced (my peripatetic single mom moved us around constantly) was George Washington Carver.
scav
@MaryRC: Or, the handy NPCs were there, simply marveling at what could be accomplished with these novel plants of corn, pumpkin and squash — the wonder! Fire! Dwellings in winter! Property rights! I mean, how else are the religious and cultural elite going to pat themselves on the back for their generosity in bringing the blessings and enlightenment of their lives to the undeserving?
TBone
@Steve LaBonne: good one!
Spanish Moss
@Steve LaBonne: Indeed!
Thor Heyerdahl
@TBone: you’re welcome eh!
It will be interesting to watch how the crowd in Montreal reacts to the Star Spangled Banner during a Canada vs US hockey game on February 15 at the 4 Nations Face-Off.
Dave
@Princess: Well there is a large subset of American’s who simply can’t conceive of the rest of the world except as NPC’s in our drama. They will not react well to learning otherwise but it’s something they damned well need to learn.
RaflW
@New Deal democrat: There’s just such a firehose of terrible news that I think the EU position on Greenland just hasn’t percolated thru to many Americans.
Europe’s leaders plot to stop Trump from taking Greenland
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz warns Trump not to take territory by force as EU leaders prepare to discuss Greenland tensions at a Feb. 3 summit.
Politico Europe, Jan, 28, 2025 8:31 PM CET
It’s no longer a joke.
After initially provoking disbelief, U.S President Donald Trump’s audacious plan to acquire Greenland — potentially by force — has triggered frantic talks among European leaders aiming to stop him.
Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen dashed between Berlin, Brussels and Paris on Tuesday to shore up support in the face of Trump’s increasingly aggressive overtures toward the territory. The pair clashed in a reportedly fiery 45-minute call two weeks ago, when it became clear to the Danish leader Trump was deadly serious.
Frederiksen said her talks with French President Emmanuel Macron in Paris and with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz in Berlin on Tuesday had gone “incredibly well.” It is “absolutely crucial” for Europe to “stand together” on Greenland, she declared.
“I don’t travel around giving speeches. I don’t need to,” Frederiksen said. “But I am safeguarding Denmark’s interests, and I am doing so very firmly right now.”
She added: “There must be respect for territory and the sovereignty of states. This is an absolutely crucial cornerstone of the international world order we have built since World War II.”
The German chancellor reinforced the point, as did other senior European officials speaking privately. “The inviolability of borders is a fundamental principle of international law,” Scholz said. “Russia has broken this principle with its invasion of Ukraine, thereby also laying the axe to the peace order in Europe. This principle must apply to everyone.”
Scholz warned that “borders must not be moved by force,” pointedly addressing his comment “to whom it may concern.”
In addition to meeting the leaders of France and Germany, Frederiksen also held talks with NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte in Brussels and last week spoke by phone with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
Diplomats have now set aside time to discuss European relations with Trump — likely including the Greenland crisis — at an informal meeting of EU leaders in Brussels on Feb. 3, according to several people familiar with the plans. Starmer is also due to attend the gathering, as London and Brussels seek closer cooperation on defense and security.
— —
As I think about it, I suspect the whole Greenland thing is a precursor move to Trump unilaterally seeking to wreck NATO. “Why stay in this so-called alliance if Europe fights me openly on buying Greenland?” It sounds like the Nordics are also having group talks about self defense against the US (as well as Russia). What a clusterfuck.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Kay:
It didn’t happen the last time. I was in college 79-85, The Reagan Years!, and while I was in hippy, dippy, Boulder, the nature of the school (expensive for a state school) and the cache of going there meant tons of young Republicans.
Back in DC in 85, there were nothing but young Republicans, the parents or grandparents now of these kids coming out of college or who’ve come out over the last decade or so.
I didn’t see any trend leftward after all of that and see no reason why that would happen again this time.
Good on your son for being an out loud and proud librul.
dexwood
@Quinerly: I’m here briefly, I have an appointment with my oncologist shortly. And, like Ms. Cracker, I’ve received some good news – “a significant response to treatment” so, my warranty has been extended. Yes, my wife is Laguna/Jemez like her distant cousin Deb Haaland. Mrs. dexwood began carrying her CIB on the day Trump became king. Our son and many of her cousins are now carrying their cards, too. We’re not hearing much about ICE raids from family or friends, and local news is no help. I’ll try to circle back to this thread later, something I rarely do.
zhena gogolia
@dexwood: Great news!
scav
@RaflW:
The bolded bit in English, as a grace note, I’ve read somewhere.
New Deal democrat
@RaflW: I did read that information after it happened.
Mouthing platitudes about:
won’t provoke T—-p, whereas any actual warning that those borders will be defended by force if need be would.
Old School
@dexwood: Congrats on the good news!
mrmoshpotato
@lowtechcyclist: Tom wrote Fuck Donald Trump?
NotMax
TBone
Some non-caffeinated Java just for you.
;)
Aziz, light!
I’ve been saving for years to buy a made in nearby British Columbia travel trailer this year. Some first-rate RVs are built in Canada and they are purchased mostly by Americans. To keep their customers, Escape Trailer has pledged to eat the tariff even though it might drive them out of business, for the simple reason that the tariff will surely drive them out of business otherwise. I’m tempted to offer more than their discounted price (not that I want to spend another 12 grand or so) to undue the damage in my case. What did our Canadian friends ever do to deserve this bullshit? How many other small businesses are going to be wiped out?
Here’s what they have to say on the subject:
Every time I think I couldn’t hate the motherfucker more, he serves up another reason.
zhena gogolia
Not a fan of Bennet any more, but he’s doing good with Gabbard.
trollhattan
@Kosh III: Tricky, like boycotting Gyna. We are legion.
If Donny does Canadian softwoods like eight years ago, construction prices skyrocket again, like last time.
Do I recall correctly the US imports a lot of Canadian aluminum? Not easy to substitute from elsewhere. “Today, I am announcing that we are invading the nation of Alcoa.”
Captain C
@Steve LaBonne: They’re whiny little losers like him except he appears rich and successful (if you don’t look too closely) and is an asshole in public to the people he hates so they aspire to be more like him.
Plus, by this point, admitting they were wrong about him would be too much of a blow to their own fragile egos.
RaflW
@Geminid: It is so much more than just this one dumb thing on tariffs. Our party is performing some sort of absurdist Kabuki where most of Trump’s cabinet members get 20-25 (or 48) yes votes.
I’m just fed up to the snapping point at the lack of fight. I call my senators daily now, but feel very ignored. Thank god Tim Walz, JB Pritzker and Gretchen Witmer still understand that being steamrolled for ‘bipartisanship sake’ is idiocy.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Kosh III: Apparently Premier Ford has threatened to order the LCBO (provincial liquor board) to pull all U.S. liquor off the shelves if Trump goes through with tariffs on Canadian goods. He has also threatened to stop the sharing of electricity from Ontario…Premier Ford threatens stopping U.S. liquor sales
“I’ve sent a direction to the LCBO that if these tariffs come to clear off every bit of U.S. alcohol off the shelves. Let’s start promoting more Ontario-made wines, and the vodkas, the spirits. That’s what we need to do,” he said.
trollhattan
@Aziz, light!: Brings the classic Borscht Belt joke to mind.
“Moishe, you have to be losing twenty dollars on every suit at that price. How do you stay in business?”
“Volume!”
sentient ai from the future
so if Jovan Musk has taken over the agency responsible for disbursing money from the treasury, as has been reported elsewhere, then
WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE INTERNATIONAL CREDIT RATINGS AGENCIES GONNA HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT AND HOW DO WE PROTECT OURSELVES FINANCIALLY FROM THE ABSOLUTE SHITSTORM THAT A SERIOUS DOWNGRADE WILL PRODUCE
i notice walz in those recent remarks made mention of credit rating. good for him.
Princess
“Ford has already vowed to clear all US alcohol off of the shelves of the provincial-run liquor stores in Ontario (that’s all of them) with the specific intent to harm Kentucky’s bourbon distillers.”
This conflates two separate strategies. The initial strategy is to put a tariff on bourbon and orange juice and other things produced primarily in red states. That’s a national plan. Doug Ford has said in addition he will prevent the LCBO which sells all the booze in Ontario (almost all?) to stop purchasing any alcohol, beer, wine etc from the US. The LCBO is the single largest purchaser of US booze in the world.
Dr. Fungus
Instead of retaliatory tariffs, I’d love to see Canada end the “IP” anti-circumvention buggery they agreed to during the last round of trade negotiations, in return for the tariff-free access that is now being reneged on. More here.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
In Milwaukee, Puerto Rican mother, grandmother and toddler detained and taken to ICE detention center for speaking Spanish in line at a department store.
U.S. citizens detained for speaking Spanish
“The family then had to call and pay for a ride back from the facility, their relative said.”
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
ICE raids in Finger Lakes region: ICE raids reported in Dryden and Ithaca
“On the morning of Jan. 30, the Ithaca Times received a video from a source showing armed law enforcement officers entering an apartment unit in the Asteri building in downtown Ithaca. In the video, the officers announce themselves as “police,” — but they are not in local Ithaca Police Department (IPD) uniforms. They are instead wearing camouflage tactical gear, including AR-15s and a Shield that says “US Marshall.”
Matt
@RaflW:
Scratch a “centrist” like Golden, find a willing fascist collaborator.
Same as it ever was: he’s only interested in putting up a fight against the people to his left.
See also the Turd Way chuds…
catfishncod
Surprised no one has linked this yet:
https://newrepublic.com/post/190983/top-treasury-official-quit-elon-musk-fight-payment-system
The Spacelord is not as hands-off as the Felon. If he seizes the passcodes that actually program the largest payroll system ever…
Steve LaBonne
@Princess: At least I have a collapse in the price of bourbon to look forward to. Should help me get through the next 4 years.
Belafon
@Lobo: They’ve already addressed that. Schools, according to one of Trump’s EOs are supposed only teach a patriotic version of US histories that talks about our accomplishments.
Steve LaBonne
@Belafon: Culminating in the wise, enlightened rule of Emperor Donald, a golden age in American history.
suzanne
@Matt McIrvin:
Agree.
Also, a major aspect of personality difference between people is relationship to authority. I suspect that left-leaning people are not just more comfortable being countercultural, but deeply prefer it, because it feels less like submission to authority. That’s a deep part of self-concept and it affects all manner of relationships, not just politics.
The Audacity of Krope
So a more extreme version of the mythologizing I was raised with in the 80s and 90s. This is why I hated history until I was in college. So much of it was obviously bunk in the same way literal interpretation of the Bible doesn’t square with the existence of dinosaurs.
That and the rote memorization of dates.
For my money, our greatest accomplishments have all been victories against racism and money, however temporary.
surfk9
I think he made that tariff announcement last night just to get the plane crash off the headlines. Let’s see if he goes through with it
Steve LaBonne
@The Audacity of Krope: Guess what, now nobody will be able to have your experience of learning about our real history in college!
Quinerly
@dexwood:
I have been asking about you on several threads. So glad you checked in with some good news.
Had taken to looking for your email from when all 3 of us met at La Cumbre a few years back. I pop in there from time to time when in Albuquerque. Somehow your personal info wasn’t saved in my phone. Feel free to get my email from Betty Cracker. Would love to reconnect in person this Spring/Summer if you feel like it.
Matt McIrvin
@suzanne: Whereas on the right, there are people who see this incredibly obsequious bootlicking as macho behavior. Total submission to the bully means some of his bully aura rubs off on you. To us it seems absurd but we’re really outside of the mindset.
But, of course, the aesthetic of rebellion, skepticism and freedom can so often be exploited by people who just want to control you in a different way. And that works across the political spectrum.
Steve LaBonne
@catfishncod: I linked to another story about this above. If we had even minimally functioning news media this would be a big big big story. It’s fucking terrifying.
Belafon
@Princess:
Most of them, no.
Princess
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: The amazing thing is that the premiers of Quebec and Ontario have both agreed to not send electricity to the north East. Not two people who usually agree about anything. Vermont uses Canadian electricity almost exclusively and a lot of other states use a lot of it.
Make no mistake — tariffs will severely damage Canada’s economy, probably sending it into recession. And by the time this is over, Canada will be selling things elsewhere; probably China.
The Audacity of Krope
@Steve LaBonne: Red state students are certainly going to lose out on opportunities, university and otherwise, if their states persist in not teaching real history or science.
Belafon
@Quinerly:
Remember MySpace?
Princess
@Steve LaBonne: silver linings!
Matt McIrvin
@Princess: Well poop. We didn’t vote for Trump here but I guess we get that grief from Hydro-Quebec anyway, and Trump will just welcome it because he wants us to freeze to death in the dark anyway.
Steve LaBonne
@The Audacity of Krope: I don’t trust administrators at any university anywhere in the country.
brendancalling
I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned it yet, but Ford has also threatened to shut off the electricity exports.
And I hope he does, too.
suzanne
@Matt McIrvin:
Yeah, we are. I think we miss a lot and underestimate our opponents, because we have fundamentally different aesthetics.
The Audacity of Krope
@Steve LaBonne: Reasonable. But the disciplines of history and science exist outside of and do not depend on the United States.
I mean unless the US leads a global purge of relevant historical documents.
Matt McIrvin
@brendancalling: It’ll mostly hurt blue-staters whose pain will make Trump happy.
Leto
@Steve LaBonne: so I’m going to simply ask, if DOGE has no legal authority to tie its own shoes, why the fuck is anyone listening to them? Or opening emails from them? Tie all that shit up in the courts. Ignore them, same as when conservatives in these institutions ignore Dems. They have no legal power: fuck’em.
stinger
@dexwood:
So very glad to hear this!
Matt McIrvin
@suzanne: The people who don’t get the irony in the worldbuilding of Warhammer 40,000 or Judge Dredd.
trollhattan
@Princess: BC and Alberta are both part of the Western Interconnection and I reckon BC supplies a lot of surplus hydropower, seasonally. If somebody ‘splains to Donny that disrupting these exports ultimately impacts California, lord know what he’ll do.
The Audacity of Krope
Blue state leftists and liberals need to find ways to support our international partners against Trump.
Not unpatriotic, by the way, Trump is against everything I understood this country stood for that gives it any semblance of greatness.
Geminid
@New Deal democrat: Ankara-based Clash Report posted these items Monday:
Also:
New Deal democrat
@Princess:
While emotionally I get the need to retaliate, I am not sure if causing a bunch of huge Blue State cities like NYC to go dark during wintertime would help their cause.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Aziz, light!:
We’ve toyed with the idea of getting a clamshell and Escape’s have always been on the list although they are pricey as it is.
Good piece of gear tho.
New Deal democrat
@Geminid: Thanks! They are being smart.
PaulWartenberg
after all that talk of February 1st being the hard date of tariffs on Mexico/Canada, the coward trump is moving the goalposts and the deadline to March 1st. Apparently he’s not getting the concessions he wants…
https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-set-impose-tariffs-mexico-canada-starting-march-1-sources-say-2025-01-31/
Redshift
@New Deal democrat:
Krugman also wrote in his newsletter about how much damage the tariffs with Canada and Mexico will do even if they only go into effect briefly (like if TCFG pulls his usual crap of picking some minor issue where he got something to declare that he “won.”) Basically, the free trade agreement (which his administration negotiated*) is just a promise to have low tariffs, there’s no enforcement mechanism. Its success comes because businesses make long-term plans based on the expectation it will be followed, and lots of companies rely on goods going back and forth across the borders. Once TCFG treats it like toilet paper, that’s gone. Every business has to assume tariffs could change at any moment, cost savings from long-term contracts and plans go out the window, etc.
All because we have a petulant asshole in charge who in addition is a Dunning-Kruger case study — completely ignorant and incompetent but believes he knows everything about everything.
*(i.e., “fixed” NAFTA by replacing it with something basically the same but with his name on it.)
John S.
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone:
Wow, thanks for those links. Where do you find these?
I hope somewhere someone is compiling a list of all the fuck-ups resulting from Trump and his maladministration.
The Audacity of Krope
I know from experience when you make an ultimatum and the other party doesn’t comply, making the same ultimatum with delayed consequences achieves compliance 100 percent of the time, every time.
Miss Bianca
@Matt McIrvin:
I know the mentality whereof you speak, but I confess it still mystifies me. I have always identified with “the left” since before I was able to vote and yet, somehow, mysteriously, I have never felt this desire to “keep my hands clean” by not identifying with the Democrats or voting for them. That shit has always struck me as weak, self-deceptive, and ultimately, self-defeating.
(Now in my old age I may no longer identify as a Democrat, but I still vote for them).
Princess
I just read that Gov Pritzker is prohibiting any of the pardoned Jan6erz from running for office in IL
Pritzker for president 2028.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@zhena gogolia:
Another no fan of Bennett (a Tonya Harding Dem) but he’s been laser focused and great both on Brainworm and now Gabbard.
Betty Cracker
@dexwood: Wow, that is wonderful news!
Josie
@The Audacity of Krope:
This is something I have been thinking about lately. How can the half of the country that does not support Trump reach out to other countries in some way to assure them that we are not in favor of these stupid moves he is making? I was thinking in particular of Mexico because of proximity, but Canada and the EU should hear from us also.
Baud
Via Reddit
Damn you. princess..
Ramalama
@Princess: People everywhere I go in the Laurentians are talking about the tariffs. And the tv news is Tariffs Central, but it’s been that way since the US election.
Ramalama
@Baud: That’s a Blue (s Brothers) lining.
Princess
@PaulWartenberg: Haha. First it was going to be Jan 20 then Feb 1 now March 1. Welcome to “Tariff Infrastructure Week.”
But as someone pointed out above: the advantages of the trade deal is the long term planning business can do. The US (and Canada and Mexico) will have a weaker economy just with the threat of tariffs.
trollhattan
Has anybody told Donny PSA 5342 was built in [dun-dun-dun] Canada?
Steve LaBonne
@PaulWartenberg: Predictable but let’s hope against hope that it’s the beginning of the end of this bullshit.
Steve LaBonne
@Josie: They know that already but it doesn’t matter because we were unable to prevent this shit and now have no power.
Belafon
@Steve LaBonne: Eventually he’ll have to raise tariffs to lower prices in order to satisfy his base.
Ruckus
@Raoul Paste:
It would be surprising if he DIDN’T bullshit.
His entire life has been one loooong bullshit session.
What I don’t see is how enough citizens of this country think he’s anything other than a bullshitter.
MAYBE they like bullshit?
MAYBE they think his bullshit is true? (It’s NOT – never has been)
Do people vote for him because of his bullshit or because he pretends he’s uber wealthy? Both? When he’s never earned a dime.
The Audacity of Krope
@Josie: Yeah, I’m more on the Canada side of the country. I know mayors and governors do some level of diplomacy to bring investment from other countries in their districts.
I wonder how much real latitude they have here. As long as they don’t explicitly countermand federal trade policy, maybe some workarounds can be achieved.
tam1MI
We here in the US could help out our Canadian friends by buying Canadian products. Maybe stop by your local Tim Hortons to have a bite, something like that.
The Audacity of Krope
???
Harrison Wesley
@RaflW: I wonder which EU country will be first to apply for BRICS membership.
Steve LaBonne
@Leto: I feel pretty confident that multiple lawsuits have already been filed. High ranking civil servants can refuse to comply and try to stick around, but then they just get reassigned or put on leave.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@trollhattan: Knowing Trump he will probably threaten to declare war on Canada, at which point we all become an episode of South Park…
Does he know that Canada is the reason the Geneva Convention rules are so long?
TBone
@NotMax: that is so darn cute and came just when I needed it, thank you!
It’s exactly as old as I am but I was feeling much older a few minutes ago.
The Audacity of Krope
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: 🎶Join Canada🎶 🎶Join Canada🎶 is what I’ll be singing.
And that was actually the movie.
Ruckus
@Rose Judson:
Their complaints might just add to the fire, so long run thinking might be that anything these 2 countries might say as a matter of policy might make things worse and likely wouldn’t change a thing. I think both countries are far smarter than that – or the current leadershit of this country.
TBone
@John S.: these people do a great job keeping the lists!
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/atrocities-546-759
Alce _e_ardillo
@Cathie from Canada: I’m American so anything I say should be taken with a few barrels of salt, but Poilevre really seems to have screwed the pooch here— cater to MAGA curious conservatives and get crushed by nationalist sentiment, or tell Trump to fuck off and lose his base….
Leto
@Steve LaBonne: you’re refusing to comply with an entity that has no legal means of enforcing squat. Personally I wouldn’t retire and would force them to remove me. Make that shit a stink, no easy wins (fuck you, Wray). Wired has a story out about President Musk flunkies trying to review code, and do IT assessments, and it’s a goddamned shitshow. Idk, I would’ve directed my people to ignore all of them. They’re not a legal entity. (This is also why I didn’t have as successful of a career as my peers) /shrug
WTFGhost
Editorial nitpick: the only time the media is “complaint” is when talking about Democrats (*easy* typo on “compliant”, but it also allows a cheap shot at the media while mentioning it).
You know, I wonder if Trump might have had more luck in the Canadian right wing if he’d proposed making each province a state. To me (non-Canadian), the idea that he didn’t even know Canada has regional provinces, or, just didn’t care, would be like the literal straw (because it *is* a teeny tiny bit of offense) that would break my particular camel’s back.
Jokingly, I say that Canadians might be put out at how *rude* it is to make such a nasty, threatening, offer on the world stage, without even quietly mentioning it first through diplomatic channels, but I say that only because I have *seen* Canadians de-escalate conflicts, mostly by not having them in the first place, with a quiet conversation about the facts leading to a reasonable solution. Or, as one meme pointed out, a Canadian driver was cut off by someone with snow all over their back window, so he ran up at the stoplight to clear the snow, to allow that driver to see, and protect others from the hazard. When I think of living there, its *not* for the free health care, though that would sweeten the deal.
I mean, it’s not often that *I* need to be reminded that, sometimes, kindness is the answer.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@John S.: I am on Threads and there are a lot of people posting info about what is going on in their areas. I also check in on the Indian Country Today website and search on ICE, ICE raids and other keywords on Threads, search engines etc. On Instagram and TikTok users have also adopted cute winter boots tag as a way of conveying the actual subject matter of the video without getting shadow banned by the algorithm. I’m 63 but am retired IT so know how to qualify my searches and also go past the first page of hits. Also looking at regional/local newspapers websites and TV stations. Like the TNholler, for news about the shit the TN lege is doing. I have family in Louisiana, Florida, Tennessee…
Redshift
@Alce _e_ardillo:
From what little I know of him, good. When I was still active on The Bad Place (Twitter), I used to have an account I followed that I called my pet Canadian wingnut. (I had originally followed him over birdwatching or something.) He went totally MAGA – ranting about the usual imaginary grievances, talking about how his province should secede because of Trudeau. But most of it was about American stuff, so it was beyond weird — I was like, dude, you’re not American, you’re not going to get anything out of this no matter how loyal a follower you are.
TBone
@Thor Heyerdahl: good eye!
ETA please keep us posted on that!
tam1MI
It will kill blue-staters. It’s the middle of winter, people will freeze to death.
Steve LaBonne
@Leto: You’re refusing to comply with the Heritage munchkins who have already been installed at your own agency. They DO have the power to fuck you up.
WTFGhost
@tam1MI: Yeah. Terry Pratchett once had someone confront a fraudster with how, sure, he never killed anyone, never did more than cosh someone on the back of the head for a quick nap, but he tried to avoid even that.
The people he got fired, the people whose lives he ruined (you always *try* to leave the mark with some skin – but you don’t know how much the mark needs, do you?), the businesses that went under, and the people, the people affected by all those things, if you *really* considered the actual *costs* of his being a con man, he had killed so-and-so many people. Three? Five? Two point seven-seven? The point was: he just fooled people into giving him money, but, the ripples of it killed people.
A lot of ripples in this country kill people. I sometimes think there are so many ripples that it’s hard to get people to care. Hell, I heard of one guy, with a poisoned well, who doesn’t want to sue the corporation to force them to clean his well up, because he considers that to be the work of lib’rul activists.
He don’t want no truck with this “clean drinking water” hippie-dippie movement. There’s always some development that’s stalled for an environmental review, and that gets turned into economic harm being done by the socio-Marxist demo- as in, changing DEMOgraphics by turning everyone gay and trans! – crat party!
And hell – some of those environmental reviews *might* be redundant, or overly onerous, or repeat work that is sufficient, and worthy of reform, but, what happens when you complain about *all* of them?
You get some damn fool who won’t say “Corporation, give me back my clean drinking water – you took it from me, I just want it back, because fair’s fair.”
Steve LaBonne
So according to the press secretary from Jung Deutsche Mädel, the tariffs ARE starting tomorrow so there. Who the fuck knows at this point.
Sister Golden Bear
@Lobo:
For the MAGAts that’s a feature, not a bug.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@New Deal democrat: What if they just shut off electricity to Staten Island?
Dave
@Cathie from Canada: I am a Canadian voter and have only one criteria for where I park my vote next election.. whoever’s going to stand up to the U.S. Weakness only invites bullies.
John S.
@TBone:
Nice one! Thanks.
Emily B.
Robert Reich today reprinted this 1/11/25 editorial by former Canadian PM Jean Chrétien. No idea how it was received in Canada, but as an American, I found it both inspiring and saddening.
Short version: Canada needs to get the puck into the offensive zone.
Emily B.
Robert Reich today reprinted this 1/11/25 editorial by former Canadian PM Jean Chrétien. No idea how it was received in Canada, but as an American, I found it both inspiring and saddening.
Short version: Canada needs to get the puck into the offensive zone.
(Ugh, sorry, corrected the link and edited up posting twice.)
rikyrah
I know it’s mean to my fellow citizens, but, Canada needs to shut off the power.
Ruckus
@Aziz, light!:
He is pure shit walking. Or waddling may be more appropriate…..
Ruckus
@Captain C:
All of this.
David Collier-Brown
@YY_Sima Qian: wrote
I love it. All that work for nothing, and less than nothing!
David Collier-Brown
@Princess:
We are low on east-west interconnections, because we made more money on selling north-south. Watch that plan change abruptly…
Of course, we’ll need to build some more connectors (:-))
BellyCat
Just wanted to see this again, says a former academic.
Ruckus
@David Collier-Brown:
What he expects is 1,000% admiration. I’d bet within 12 months what he’ll be getting is 20-30%, because his bullshit will affect everyone. And bullshit is all he has left. I’d bet he still believes he is the god/king of humanity – and will to his dying day.
Ruckus
@oldgold:
You give way too much credit.
Ruckus
@Steve LaBonne:
Some people like authoritarians.
And while he may be horrible at being one, that is the closest I think I can come to what he’d like to be. Well he may want to be King. But we don’t have those so he’ll settle.
Ruckus
@Quinerly:
I used to use FB but stopped quite a few years ago. It was a good way to communicate with friends when the web got going, but it really didn’t take long to destroy what the concept of FB was said to be. I didn’t miss it the first day off and haven’t since.
Ruckus
@Leto:
They have no legal power: fuck’em.
I seriously doubt they will give even one shit about having any legal power. If they want this BS they will do anything to get it because they think it will benefit them above all else. And look who they consider a leader. These are not deep thinkers, they are greedy and willing to do anything.