What we are against is this idea that we will evade the Constitution or we will evade our own constitutional–. In fact, it’s not even an evasion at this point.
It feels as if y’all have just decided that y’all are going to castrate your constitutional duty and hand it over to someone who is unelected. It doesn’t matter how many cheerleaders he had on the field campaigning for him, that doesn’t mean that he gets to go in and sit atop any of our agencies. And the fact that we had a vote today and we asked to bring him [Musk] in because we have a constitutional duty.
We all took our oath. And maybe some of your just don’t take you seriously. But I take it seriously when I take an oath to do a job. And my job is to look out and make sure that we don’t have any kings or queens in this country.
But it seems like y’all have decided that is going to be Mr. King and his queen — and y’all can pick which one is which.
Like a lot of people, including David Anderson, I came into Trump 2.0 thinking that the big fight would be in the House, and that a lot of the Trump agenda would be stymied because, as David rightly points out, the House is tight and there are reps in tight districts who are vulnerable. Instead, the Republicans in Congress have decided to just let President Musk run the show. They might have been able to pass a bill to eliminate USAID, eliminate or reduce the Department of Education, lay off a bunch of workers at the FBI, CIA, etc., but that would have happened slowly, they wouldn’t have gotten everything they wanted, and there would have been a lot of friction over it. Friction drives coverage, and coverage drives victory for Democrats when people understand what is being taken away.
Instead, it’s a King (Musk) and whatever Trump is, with a couple of concerned faces in the Senate and Mike Johnson getting upset because a couple of Democratic reps (Judy Chu and Gwen Moore) “barged in” to his office to ask him if he’s going to do anything about the King essentially shutting down Congress. Short answer: he ain’t. He wants to skim the cream off of this coup — getting what he and the other evangelicals want — with the misguided view that in the end things will got back to semi-normal and Congress will have a say in things. Why the hell would Musk and Trump let them have a say when they’re getting what they want without Congress?
Self-castration is the right metaphor, because once it’s gone, it will never come back. Same goes for John Roberts and the Supremes, by the way. When Musk starts ignoring their rulings, might as well shut down the courts and shove the savings on heat and light into King Elon’s pocket.
Professor Bigfoot
“Conservatives will overthrow the Constitution they claim to revere because it permitted a Black man to become President— twice.”
This is another phenomenon that has a very simple explanation— if you’re willing to actually look at it.
AM in NC
It is just astounding that they think the genie will just go back in the bottle and that the Leopards won’t feast on them. But that’s the cosseted, privileged sphere these assholes have always existed within. Daddy’s money, or their Church community, or their Chamber buddies have always ALWAYS made sure they fail ever ever upwards and are NEVER held to account for their actions. Of COURSE they think the world will endlessly work this way for them.
EVERY ONE OF US is going to have to do the work to disabuse them of this notion. And grind their Party/Movement into dust. Just thinking on the best way to do that personally.
And I will NEVER accept “look forward not back” from any elected official ever again. In fact, that’s disqualifying. I have entered my full-throated-retribution phase, I’m afraid.
E.
@Professor Bigfoot: The problem is all I ever hear you offer as a path forward is for white people to become better people and that hasn’t been working is there something we can do other than yell at them.
Steve LaBonne
@Professor Bigfoot: The roots actually go back to the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Acts. LBJ accurately predicted the results except he naively thought the backlash would only last a generation. Fat chance- the virus of white nationalism is highly heritable.
Steve LaBonne
@E.: Slashing Medicaid plus the next pandemic should shrink the white reactionary population considerably.
NutmegAgain
I love Jasmine Crockett. I don’t know anything about organizational skills or whatever else somebody needs to be in a leadership position, but I would love to see her truth-telling front and center for the Dems.
Professor Bigfoot
@E.: Yep.
Because it’s better for ME to yell at the fuckers, especially when I KNOW what they’re really about.
WHICH IS THE GODDAMN POINT of everything I keep saying about Americans.*
*”In this country American means white. Everybody else has to hyphenate.” -Toni Morrison
edited to add: THIS IS A WHITE FOLKS PROBLEM. There is not one single goddamn thing Black people (or anyone else) can do to change the way white people think, act, and vote.
Don’t look to ME or any other Black person to tell you how to fix white people, ‘cause white people ain’t ever going to fucking listen to US.
Professor Bigfoot
@Steve LaBonne: Folks don’t want to appreciate the wisdom LBJ brought— he UNDERSTOOD exactly what MAGA does.
”Give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
LAC
@Professor Bigfoot: gallows humor
https://www.threads.net/@chescaleigh/post/DFvRaO2vB-B?xmt=AQGzf6HDgfYj0sqL-Gx73fVcJlCjX4vwMlrHBkNRs1eydQ
Professor Bigfoot
@LAC: #DEAD
”Surprise surprise, it was a white man all along” LOL
Steve LaBonne
@Professor Bigfoot: And even that goes back to the way the Bourbon planters kept poor whites in their pockets. Under the surface, certain fundamental realities in this country change extremely slowly if at all.
E.
@Professor Bigfoot: I’m just saying it gets boring, you yelling at us over and over again that there is terrible racism, America is for white people, yep dude, all the heads are nodding, every single time. Tell me a story that resonates, you’ve gotta have lots of them.
E.
@Steve LaBonne: BUT THEY DO CHANGE if we make them.
matt
I mean, Johnson acts like he’s already castrated.
Steve LaBonne
@E.: Less than well-meaning white people like to think. We “race traitors” need to have realistic ideas about the scope and strength of what we’re up against.
Hungry Joe
A key Tell will be when a court orders Musk (and his Sick Crew) to stop doing Whatever, he ignores the order … and the Chief Executive does not see that the law is faithfully executed. In short, Musk says “Make me,” and nobody does.
Steve LaBonne
@matt: Does his phone do that after a certain number of porn viewings?
Chris
I said during Trump’s first term that he wouldn’t end up being America’s Putin, he’d end up being America’s Yeltsin, with oligarchs looting everything in sight and whatever was left of the state simply imploding. I was off by one term, but yep, that’s exactly what he’s being.
Steve LaBonne
@E.: Racism is a white people problem. It’s not Black people’s job to hold our hands and walk us through the steps for fixing it, nor to keep OUR morale up.
Professor Bigfoot
@E.: Like how a former coworker sabotaged my project repeatedly? Or another tried hard (and ultimately successfully) to get me fired? Or how another decided I had to be fired but the white man he kept ended up screwing the entire company over (after I’d spent the previous year working 60 hour weeks wearing the Project Manager and the Engineering Manager hats)?
Yeah, you’re bored because you’re white and NONE of this shit will affect YOU.
You think.
Professor Bigfoot
@Steve LaBonne: That’s the problem— that minority of American white people who are NOT onboard with the white supremacy cannot— WILL NOT— grapple with how white supremacy affects their own lives and especially their daily decisions.
No, it’s because I’m angry, I’m boring… but really, he just doesn’t fucking want to hear it anymore.
Which is VERY MUCH a typical, fragile, white response.
E.
@Professor Bigfoot: Yes that is exactly what I want to hear. Because it will help.
RaflW
My next call to Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin is going to be about his self-castration. Assuming I get voicemail again (or maybe even if I somehow manage to reach a human), I’ll ask the hypothetical:
What are you going to do in four years when President Harris or “data Czar” Pete Buttigieg run wild and make all sorts of administrative changes to laws Republicans pass? You and Sen Thune and the GOP caucus are making your Senate a weak and even unnecessary appendage of government.
You may think “Oh, I’m getting the policies I want” but if the cost is a Senate with no power, you’re giving away the store by not standing up to Musk; by not giving any thought to the inevitable Democrat who comes next. Oh, and don’t fool yourselves. A Democrat will be president again. It’s gonna happen, and you’ll have wrecked the Senate’s power and it’ll be too late!
(I need to work on a good, cruel cackle, though!)
LAC
@E.: The magical negro show is done. There are no reboots or reunion episodes. You will not be getting explanations. You bored? Take up knitting. Or study the piano at a late age.
kindness
@Steve LaBonne: With all due respect, it isn’t just white folk who can be racist. In fact, saying racism is a white problem is crazy talk. Yea, white racists should be marginalized to nothingness, but every culture has racism and it’s a problem for all of them & us.
I’m really unimpressed with many of you.
David Fud
@Hungry Joe: The judiciary sure as hell can if they really want to. They can deny access to the judicial system, and tell Musk that he will lose every suit brought against him, regardless of how frivolous. They can fine him incredible amounts. They have power if they choose to use it.
Ksmiami
@E.: boycott them. Actually, Ive been thinking about the Trading Places trade. If we can pull together and short their fake ass companies like Trump media etc, we can turn a lot of paper wealthy people to poor people.
Captain C
@RaflW:
Thought this bolded addition is important too.
WTFGhost
They let him talk to Putin without knowing what was said.
They let him take documents so important, most CongressCritters aren’t *authorized* to know how important they are.
They trumped up charges and suspicion of an innocent family, *twice*, the second time to cover for the first.
They let Trump retaliate against people for doing their jobs.
They swore they’d treat trump just as hard as they treated Clinton, and proved that they simply don’t believe in the very *concept* of “justice”
They castrated themselves a long time ago. They’ve all been singing castrato since; I don’t know if post-puberty castration changes the vocal cords, but, “castrato” refers to physical condition.
As for the people they see as walking egg sacs, *they* are condemning their children to a potentially devastatingly bad future, which is HI-lariously funny when you hear them drone on about the wonders of “motherhood”, imagining said egg sacs having to drop their young into anything – boiling lava would work! – so long as they have WIKTORY today.
(Does lava boil? Could Hollywood be *wrong* about something so fundamentally terrifying? I can only barely imagine it.)
Seriously: the *LEAST* we should think, is that Trump has given up state secrets in return for phone sex with his buddy Putin. And Republicans don’t give a damn. No wonder the thought of trying to win disability has filled me with existential despair.
Paul W.
We need to be coordinating a general strike between people like us already activated by this stuff so that, once something important to the public like a mass death event to a tornado or the like happens or maybe it is schools shutting down or the end of Medicare, we can have a national day of protest and just stop everything until the masters of the universe listen.
It would be better at this point to leave the administration buildings fallow than to continue to let DOGE through the doors. I don’t give a shit if federal workers can’t strike if they are already going to be removed, admins need to start changing passwords and walking away from the keyboard and such. As soon as a few of the court orders are clearly being ignored, especially appeals courts, then we need to start gumming up the works. The Trump nominees have a ton of power but not a lot of staff at this point so it has to be sooner than later.
David Fud
@E.:
Black folks are not obligated to continue to carry our water. It is time for US to wipe the shit out of our own asses. Dude, seriously, you have got to step up to your obligation as an American and stop treating this like some sport that isn’t your game. Don’t tell other people how you need tools. *You* need to create them and tell your people. *You* have the arguments with your family relatives and neighbors that don’t want to hear it. Until you have done that, and are only asking for advice, not a bunch of water-carrying, you need to do your part and stop waiting for Godot or the closest-at-hand black person.
Ksmiami
@Professor Bigfoot: we are all poorer and less a nation as a result of racism and its legacy. Me, I went out of my way to study real US history- including a statistical project on lynching in Mississippi in the 1900s-
eyes wide open. I know who the enemy is.
Professor Bigfoot
@E.: I was hired from a project manager position in a software development company; the intent to outsource a lot of the company’s embedded software systems to external providers and my experience was perfect to direct that effort.
BUT on my first day I met one of the engineers— a straight white conservative “redneck” engineer and I could tell he wasn’t comfortable with having me there (this outfit had NO ONE Black in any higher position than field service tech- which leads to another story in itself).
The fundamental problem was that their machines were still running on DOS computers; and their biggest automotive customer wanted them to upgrade to be able to run Windoze.
The software company that was I was managing consisted of a set of computer science PhDs who built a system that read the original DOS code (it was in some obscure-ass language, too, as I recall), and converted it to a C++ package to do the same thing.
That worked for about 80% of the code; so they then manually examined the rest and wrote what was necessary to get it up and running.
Mind, because it was automatically generated, this code was not very human readable; but IT WORKED.
So they got the system to run, and we set it up for long term testing: set it up with a circular conveyor to run for as long as it would run.
I said to my engineering “colleagues,” “Hey, I invite you to break this thing. Get in here and do whatever you want, but PLEASE, if you get it to stop running, write down what you did!”
I would leave the plant at 5, with the machine running; came back the next morning and it was dead— no bug reports, not notes, nothing.
This went on for weeks.
I came to find out that one of my white, conservative, Christian co-workers was gleefully coming over, screwing over the machine, and laughing to his buddies about it.
His straight, white, Christian buddies.
I came from a software engineering background. Sofware engineering calls for disciplined, documented development process, and these guys were just coders. Their first thought, regardless of what happened, was to dive into the code. There was no documentation, and no one could identify any kind of design philosophy…
Ultimately, that first engineer I met got me fired.
I got hired the very next day by the Director of Sales and Marketing because he understood what I brought to the table; but the simple fact is I got fired because racist white men wanted me fired.
Later i could tell you about the new boss who let me go despite having beat my sales goals by over 50% for three years— and who also managed to fire every single Black person in that department.
Mere coincidence, I’m sure.
John S.
@kindness:
Welcome to what BJ has become since the trolls have taken over. Every thread just becomes the same old thing, regardless of what the topic is.
Belafon
@E.: Let those white people buy eggs when the FDA stops requiring infected chickens be slaughtered.
gene108
If Elon gets embedded in government systems over the next four years, how do we get him out? Even a few Republicans want to be president and probably want to do more than be Mudk’s lap dog while in office.
I do not believe Republicans in Congress wsnt a say in things. They’re perfectly happy getting paid, while others run the government. I think their dream world would be Putin’s Russia, where they have no real authority and the president does what he wants.
Belafon
@E.: As as white man, let me say I’m sorry you can’t control your boredom. I’m pretty sure blacks are bored with getting attacked.
Steve LaBonne
@kindness: Racism is not the same thing as simply disliking members of another group.
It’s a phenomenon of power over. Who has that power in our society? You will never understand anything until you start asking such questions.
Professor Bigfoot
@kindness: How about white supremacy?
This country has been run by white supremacy since the Founding, and ONLY WHITE PEOPLE can do a goddamn thing about white supremacy.
You hide from that by claiming others are also “racist,” but those others have no fucking power like white people do.
Belafon
@kindness: Let’s separate something. Racism is a problem. The problem here is that white racism comes with white power. That is what has been happening in this country for most of its existence. You wanna hate a group, you can deal with the consequences. When you can hate a group for existing and act against that group, you are the problem.
Hildebrand
@E.: Because white people forget. We pay attention for a hot minute when a crisis blows up, and then forget.
So, we have to be reminded, regularly. We shouldn’t have to be, but we bury our heads in the sand as soon as the latest storm blows over.
We have to remember, we have to listen, we have to learn, and we have to show up, not just every now and then, but all the time.
We have to get better, we have to do better – and it’s not anyone else’s job to do that. That’s on us white people.
sentient ai from the future
@kindness: you’re welcome to go be unimpressed somewhere else.
Betty Cracker
@Chris: I’ve thought about that a lot since you pointed it out. Looks like you were right.
Chris
@gene108:
One of the things about him getting embedded in our government systems is that among other things, it serves as a contingency for the future. Even if not too much damage is done in the next four years, even if Democrats manage to win back a trifecta in 2028… As soon as the Democrats assume power, Musk and his hackers, who still have access, go completely wild and start shutting down all social security payments, transferring all treasury money into their offshore accounts, etc etc etc, cause a mother of all Great Depressions, and kneecap the new administration on day one.
If we thought Clinton, Obama, and Biden had problems in their first two years, just imagine what that’ll be.
sentient ai from the future
@Steve LaBonne: anyone who requires an explanation that “racism and bigotry are not equivalent” at this point in history who is over the age of 15 is not arguing in good faith
Steve LaBonne
@sentient ai from the future: Probably not, but I won’t tire of explaining it just on the off chance that someone really hasn’t encountered the concepts. Ignorance is as American as cherry pie
zhena gogolia
@E.: It’s not his job to help you. The information is all over the place. We white people need to first acknowledge the cause of this disaster/tragedy/destruction.
Steve LaBonne
@zhena gogolia: Be great if that happened before the whole country dies of whiteness.
zhena gogolia
@Steve LaBonne: I’m afraid it’s too late. But I’m trying to hold onto hope, that’s what my minister keeps telling me.
RaflW
@Chris: Yup. And among other things, male life expectancy in RU went from 68.9 years in 1990 to 64.47 just four short years later. (We went from 75.2 to 75.6 so this was not a wider problem.)
I don’t think Americans (wether we mean that just as white men, or everyone) is prepared for how shitty everything is about to become.
Last night when I saw that Musk got the nod from WI moron Sean Duffy to ‘plug in’ and fuck up the FAA’s computers, I started seriously considering cancelling all future flight bookings. I dread doing the amount of driving that would require, but JFC I have little desire to be consumed in an aviation fireball.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: You get it. But many folks even in nominally liberal spaces like this one don’t. They get all defensive when you point some bleedingly obvious things about their demographic.
Non-white people like me are tolerated only if we are in agreement with the consensus. Otherwise nasty personal attacks will be dished out by commenters and FPers.
Suzanne
@E.:
Go down to the public library and get yourself a book.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@zhena gogolia: I wrote once before, the Republicans seem bent on destroying the society I prefer to inhabit. I doubt they’ll succeed but they’re certainly doing their best.
Chris
@RaflW:
I’ve never been a nervous passenger before, but the amount of bullshit that’s been going on with Boeing has turned me into one the last few years. And that was before Trump got elected and went all Iraq-CPA on the government.
One of those recent plane accidents was at an airport I’d landed at just three days before. Does wonders for your confidence in the system, it does.
LAC
@zhena gogolia: ironically, the cell phone that our bored and unimpressed posters are on was invented by a black man. Black history month still happening. 🙂
Reboot
Speaking of which, Rep. Ben Cline on Musk (apologies for length):
Thank you for contacting my office regarding your concerns with businessman Elon Musk’s role in the Trump Administration. I appreciate hearing from you on this important topic.
As you know, today’s society relies heavily on technology. As technology develops and society evolves, so must our government. In fact, June 30, 2024 marked the deadline for all U.S. federal agencies to transition to fully electronic records. With that in mind, protecting the privacy of Sixth District constituents is a top priority. It is essential that we ensure the protection of individuals’ digital records under the control of the federal government, including Social Security and Medicare records.
I also believe it is crucial to recognize that the President of the United States, regardless of their party affiliation, has Article II constitutional authority to appoint individuals who can help execute their vision for the federal government. Most recently, President Trump designated Elon Musk as a “special government employee,” which is defined by Section 202 of Title 18 of the United States Code. President Trump’s decision to enlist Mr. Musk is a bold step toward strengthening America’s technological leadership and eliminating bureaucratic inefficiencies. This appointment is fully within the President’s discretion and is no different from past administrations appointing industry experts to key cabinet, advisory, and operational roles.
For over 20 years, Mr. Musk has undoubtedly showcased to the American people his unparalleled ability to drive innovation, develop world leading technologies, and ensure America is the world leader in energy, Artificial Intelligence, rocketry, transportation, and healthcare, among other fields.
Further, Musk is not a private citizen being given “unprecedented access to personal or sensitive information,” as the extreme left would lead you to believe. Mr. Musk holds some of the highest-level security clearances as a key defense contractor and his work is integral to ensuring U.S. military superiority. As you are aware, the rocket systems and satellites his companies produce are used across the federal government, including in the Department of Defense, and his Starlink system has been critical in supporting U.S. allies abroad. There are few, if any, private individuals who have done more to advance America’s technological and defense capabilities in modern history. If there is anyone qualified to bring the federal government into the 21st century and improve its efficiency, it is Elon Musk.
Additionally, led by Mr. Musk, the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) is an essential initiative to reduce wasteful spending, cut bureaucratic red tape, and modernize government technology. On his first day in office, President Trump legally integrated DOGE into the federal government by way of an executive order renaming the U.S. Digital Service as the U.S. DOGE Service (USDS). Fully authorized under the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), USDS will enhance government productivity and ensure taxpayer dollars are spent responsibly. Each executive agency’s DOGE Team works in coordination with agency heads in order to ensure the implementation of President Trump’s DOGE agenda. Treasury Secretary Scott Bissent has already approved DOGE’s lawful access to unclassified records and systems to facilitate this integration.
There is no evidence to support the allegation that Elon Musk or his team has unlawfully accessed or seized the sensitive data. Any access to citizen data is strictly regulated, and the role of DOGE is focused on modernizing outdated systems, not compiling private information. The real threat to Americans’ privacy has come from an unchecked bureaucracy that has mismanaged data security for decades. The reforms proposed by President Trump and implemented by individuals like Mr. Musk are designed to prevent government overreach, not expand it. The current laws protecting the privacy of citizen information have not been revoked and will be strongly enforced.
Additionally, to ensure proper legislative oversight of these efforts, I am proud to serve as a member of the new DOGE Caucus here in Congress. This caucus will work alongside President Trump to introduce reforms that streamline government operations, eliminate inefficiencies, and restore fiscal responsibility in Washington.
I appreciate you reaching out regarding this issue and welcome continued discussion on how Congress is taking proactive steps to strengthen our government’s technological and fiscal responsibility. Please do not hesitate to contact my office if I can be of further assistance. To receive the latest updates from my office, I encourage you to sign up for my e-newsletter at cline.house.gov or like/follow my Facebook, X, and Instagram.
Sincerely,
Ben Cline
Member of Congress
zhena gogolia
@LAC: Everybody can start with the 1619 Project. It’s written in gripping style.
zhena gogolia
@Reboot: Vomit.
ETA: I expected to find he was from deepest Mississippi. VIRGINIA
Salty Sam
NOMINATED!
Steve LaBonne
@Reboot: Wow, you could fertilize a whole farm with that stuff.
E.
deleted
zhena gogolia
@E.: Thanks.
Planetjanet
@E.: White people need to fix white people.
Captain C
@Reboot: Dear Ben,
You’re full of shit. Please resign and do the honorable thing.
Signed,
All of us Jackals
E.
@Professor Bigfoot:
I went to a City Council meeting two weeks ago that was well attended because it involved a plan to spend millions of dollars on enhanced video surveillance of our Southeastern US city.
Our City Council is mostly white, mostly Dem, most of them products of a Democratic city machinery that cycles liberalish white people up from boards and committees to councilmembers. Every so often a Black person makes it through.
At the meeting, they sat behind a row of tables against a wall, facing the audience. Facing them in the front row was the lily-white press, followed by two full rows of very large, uniformed police officers (nearly all white), and behind them, a sea of Black faces. Black people who came to learn about these millions of dollars proposed to be spent to target them.
And here in this oh-so-proud-of-itself post-racial city, that visual is a direct representation of what is going on. Our council was so fucking disdainful, and dismissive, and curt, and threatening, and snotty, and catty, that the only thing they accomplished is making things even worse. It was a disgrace. I don’t know what to do with this information other than to share it and try to get more people to join me at these meetings, which I am doing, locally.
RaflW
@Chris: I love to travel, and for the most part love to fly (this does not include TSA/long gate waits/bag shenanigans — I mean I still happily marvel and look out the window on pretty much every flight I go on unless I need to sleep on a red-eye).
And, yes, I am a bit shook by the DCA tragedy. We have also had too many ‘close calls’ the last couple of years, which are bad leading indicators that the system is overstressed and under-resourced. Musk jockeys thinking they can just log on and ‘fix’ vital code that is decades of kludges is terrifying.
Hopefully they break things in such a way that it’s just massive inconveniences, like ground stops so that 1000s of flights are just held and then cancelled so he comes off as the arrogant freak/fool that he is. But the potential for loss is too important. I despair that anyone with enough leverage can do anything to avert it, though.
sentient ai from the future
@Reboot: ask him to help you draft a FOIA request for copies of musk’s statements of financial conflict of interest and his contacts with foreign governments. if he is a “special government employee” then he needs to have those and be vetted.
Dangerman
Team Red is sick in the head. But they got the Refs like the Chiefs (not really but roll with me here) and their field is shorter.
Team Blue? What ya gonna do? What ya gonna do when they come for you?
/ bad boys
Planetjanet
@E.: Have you ever heard one of your white friends say something off color? Did you push back?
E.
@Suzanne: Maybe you’re right. Maybe this comment section is for sounding off, not actually talking to each other. Noted. But don’t tell me to read a book. I’m the wrong person for that slur.
RaflW
@Reboot: Guys like Ben seem to be happy to slice off their sacs. It means someone else has to do work, and they can just try to get on Fox or CNN and blather more.
Professor Bigfoot
@sentient ai from the future: There’s a LOT of that going around these days.
Planetjanet
@kindness: Oh, no. “Not all white people?” How about looking at the sheer numbers and start with the white people. Whatever works may work across the board. Make it unfashionable to be cruel or make assumptions about people. Don’t play whataboutism. It is looking for an excuse to not do anything about a really hard problem.
Planetjanet
@John S.: Fighting racism is NOT BEING A TROLL.
gene108
@Reboot:
But do those defense security clearances allow him to access IT systems across the government?
There’s no such thing as a “master” security clearance that allows someone access to everything in the government. Security clearances try to be compartmentalized to prevent one person from having access to everything.
mali muso
@Reboot: Oh goodie. I guess I should expect to find a similar email from him soon. I’ve called his local office to register my feelings about the Elon coup and they didn’t have any “response”, just took my info. Worthless spineless worm.
And to think I used to be represented by the amazing Jennifer Wexton before they redistricted me into this evil prick’s area.
LAC
@Reboot: Did you open the windows while you read that? The funk was ripe on that pos response.
Professor Bigfoot
@E.: When white people refuse to hear something because it triggers them is not a reason for the rest of us to shut the fuck up about it.
Your fragility is showing.
KM in NS
@E.: I found the book “White Fragility” by Robin DiAngelo was a good starting point for my journey.
Planetjanet
@Professor Bigfoot: I am grateful for your presence here.
Reboot
@zhena gogolia: I live in SW Virginia in a blue dot surrounded by red. The last Democrat who ran against him seemed like a no-hoper to me. My sense is that Cline keeps his seat as long as he wants.
LAC
@gene108: exactly! I had a security clearance- did not mean I could go into a SCIFF and review documents whilly nilly.
Reboot
@Steve LaBonne: No kidding.
Belafon
@E.: Naaah. Seems to me like you’re relishing the lack of a proper education and refuse to do it yourself.
Reboot
@Captain C: If only.
Professor Bigfoot
This place, as nice and welcoming as it is, is a profoundly white space; and non-white perspectives are often lost, forgotten, or simply ignored (as in “class war, not race war”).
Now if the Blogfather decides that this Black voice should be silenced here, well, then, so be it.
But FUCK if I’m gonna be quiet while white people erase our shared history and try to tell me I cannot believe what I see with my own two eyes.
Shoot me, or fucking deal.
brantl
@Professor Bigfoot: Keep a straight face and tell me MLK didn’t change ANYTHING about one hell of a lot of white people. WTFIWWY?
E.
@KM in NS: HOLY SHIT! I actually had one of those council members recommend that to me too! Not in a patronizing way though. It was just funny.
Reboot
@sentient ai from the future: ‘I am proud to serve as a member of the new DOGE Caucus,’ so don’t think he’s going to help me out there.
brantl
@matt: Boy, howdy!
brantl
@Steve LaBonne: So long as it’s a problem, it’s EVERYBODY’S problem. We’re all in this together.
Reboot
@RaflW: I wrote to Youngkin about all the NIH grants Virginia would lose. His reply was to contact my Democratic senators about it (!). At least //, Cline’s office is actually addressing the topic, so they’ve got that going for them.
KM in NS
@E.: I wasn’t patronizing you. I really found it to be a good starting point.
Kay
@Hungry Joe:
Agree. When they defy a court order, all bets are off.
Reboot
@mali muso: I’ve only lived here since 2019. So basically he’s all I’ve ever known. My condolences on losing Jennifer Wexton.
Reboot
@LAC: I know, right?
Steve LaBonne
@brantl: Are you fucking serious? The subsequent history of the country, including what we’re going through now where we are rapidly regressing to the pre- Civil Rights era, proves that he didn’t. Most white people who, like you, aren’t hard-core racists still can’t see themselves in the reproaches addressed to white moderates in the Letter from Birmingham Jail. And white celebrations of King’s birthday take less notice than ever of his opposition to war and his economic radicalism.
Captain C
@Dangerman:
They got Chief Justice Angel Hernandez calling balls and strikes that always just happen to be in their favor.
Steve LaBonne
@brantl: The chief victims of the problem are not the ones in a position to fix it, because they don’t have power. This should not be a difficult point to grasp.
Belafon
I reached pie time.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Professor Bigfoot:
It’s not unusual that the (white) people preaching “know who the enemy is” also try to equate any discussion or debate about important aspects of Democratic Party policies that are inimical to a big chunk of who Democrats, writ large, claim to be “fighting for”, is simply another (pejorative) aspect a circular firing squad.
Telling people like me, who didn’t “start out as a libertarian”, or voted for John Anderson or Ralph Nader but who’s been voting for Dems since I was eligible to vote, to “put aside our differences”, given the sources, is yet another way of simply trying to stifle discussion and debate under some holier-than-thou guise in order to again frame/steer the party in a direction that sucks. It’s always about re-framing the debate on their terms, not about good faith differences of opinion like who the DNC head should be.
It’s the usual Yglesias, Noah Smith, host of Atlantic writers, new liberalism clowns (Blue Dog v2.0) that would have us stfu and not question the direction of the party all in the name of “put aside our differences”.
I don’t need to be told who the “real” enemy is, I’ve been voting against them my entire life. But, many times, dealing with the “real” enemy is somewhat of a more honest effort, ie., “It’s often easier dealing with a Klansman than an NPR neoliberal”.
At least the “real enemy” are honest about their white supremacism, entitlement/privilege, goals, etc., rather than disguising it in banal “liberal sounding” talking points while laundering libertarian policies that I see on a daily level screw black/brown folks in the City and cause a lot of other low-info/low-enthusiasm voters question exactly what they get by voting for Dems.
To quote mistermix: “I hate that more than someone who at least is honest about what they are.”
Kelly
Kris Kristofferson “Jesus was a Capricorn”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frVK05b8r5s&ab_channel=KrisKristofferson-Topic
Leto
@LAC: do you mind linking to who that is?
Captain C
@Planetjanet:
As I’ve said before, this may be technically true, but is also irrelevant. The problem is “Enough white people do to cause a problem.”
Trivia Man
@AM in NC: South Africa had the Truth & Reconciliation process that seemed to help. IIRC a key point was ADMITTING you were wrong instead if doubling down with AND I WILL DO IT AGAIN!
Belafon
@brantl: And yet, it didn’t solve it. He didn’t fix people. He got some whites to recognize that they were wrong. But we are here in spite of his work.
leeleeFL
Ruckus
@kindness:
Racism exists to give power to one group, no matter which way the power or the color goes.
Damn it we are all human. A way too high percentage of humans think because some have more color to their skin there must be something wrong with them. It is bullshit pure and simple. The difference is that some have genetics that has their body create more of the chemical that colors skin. MORE, not some. All humans have the chemical(s) in our bodies that makes us darker than the color of pure white. And while I’ve seen a few humans with very pale skin, they still have that EXACT same chemical in their bodies, just not as much. This concept that the amount of this chemical makes us better or worse is BULLSHIT. It changes our skin tone. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE. It is our individual bodies that tell us what shade of skin we will have. EVERYTHING ELSE IS BULLSHIT. Humanity has been playing this game for ever and it is bull and shit. Your skin color does not make one a better or worse person. You do that to yourself. By believing BULLSHIT.
As I’ve asked here before, will humanity ever grow the fuck up?
I’m not holding my breath.
Emily B.
For those still reading the Washington Post, don’t be freaked out (as I was, at first) by the currently top-performing story, “As Washington reels from Trump’s actions, his voters like what they see.” Pennsylvania voters are quoted as saying that they approve of what they see as Trump’s efforts to root out DEI and waste in the federal government.
Then I counted the actual voters that the reporter, Natalie Allison, talked to. Three employees at a diner. A guy in a Walmart parking lot. And a couple of people at a Republican field office, including a pardoned January 6 insurrectionist.
I gotta remember to take all “dispatches from the REAL America” journalism with a big dash of salt. A diner, really?
leeleeFL
@matt: Born that way, my Friends! He has almost reached the epitome of useful idiocy, tRump is there! Where’s Mona Charren when you need her? Oh yeah, the Bulwark!
LAC
@Leto: sure..
https://aaregistry.org/story/cell-phone-pioneer-jesse-russell-born/#:~:text=*Jesse%20Russell%20was%20born%20on,eight%20brothers%20and%20two%20sisters.
Betty Cracker
@Reboot: Ugh. I haven’t heard back from any of my Republicans on this issue. I expect them to barf up a similar PR boilerplate if they bother to respond at all
@sentient ai from the future: Great suggestion!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
In an attempt to address MM’s main point (part of the ‘problem’ we have, commentary wise, is the fact that the FPers always seem to make things “open threads”), it all boils down to:
We have no instructions on what to do when the basic structure of separation of powers is broken due to party loyalty, not Constitutional Loyalty.
I, and others, often harken back to the First Gilded Age as an historical antecedent for this predicament. It was clear that (R) in latter half of the 19th Century controlled everything and it was definitely Party Over Country. But I’m no longer sure the comparisons are apt because so many things are different now in terms of the economy, international relations, communications.
We’ve watched this develop over the course of this century and damned if some days I don’t think the Constitution wasn’t written for this outcome in terms of “what happens when checks and balances no longer work” or “what happens when checks and balances have been so thoroughly corrupted/captured that nothing works?”
Another doomer moment. And yesterday’s protest was so sunny and affirming!
scav
If we’re establishing universal, unfettered, unchangeable, irrefutable blame, can we throw men in the bin? They too are the source of all that is wrong, correct? The same little power play trick works there too, right? All women are blameless?
jaysus, the search for simple answers just rolls on.
Trivia Man
@Professor Bigfoot: We had a very interesting conversation years ago at iur Unitarian church. About 70 (all white) people in small discussion groups grappling with the proposed use of the term “white supremacy” in all of the racial justice work of the congregation.
Nearly all opposed it at first as too inflammatory. I was leaning that direction to be honest. But after discussing alternatives and, you know, the REALITY OF THE PROBLEM! nearly 100% agreed it was accurate and necessary. Including me.
Chris
@Emily B.:
To be fair, for once in their life they’re actually being honest: that headline reads “his voters like what they see.”
The usual bait and switch is to interview a diner patron, pretend that they’re a totally undecided independent moderate non-political swing voter, and it’ll come out a few months later that he was actually the chairman of the Smallville County Republican Party. (And that this is the seventh year in a row they’ve interviewed him).
MagdaInBlack
@kindness: Yes, all cultures have racism, but this discussion is the U.S. culture of white racism towards blacks. “Look over there others do it” doesnt fly in this case.
Chris
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
Also, throughout the First Gilded Age, national politics was dominated by the more liberal party.
It doesn’t look like much, but it makes a huge difference.
Dave
@RaflW: On some level they may be aware that they will be safe if only because we’ve been breeding the world’s most perfect and non-threatening to those in power toadies.
Of course if that remains operative if and when things are really broken is a different question but one that feels to unreal to them to alter their behavior.
Leto
@LAC: I’m sure you know, there’s a different set of people credited for developing the cell phone. Martin Cooper, Douglas H. Ring, and W. Rae Young. Cooper’s specific work predates Russell’s by a few decades, but Russell’s contributions definitely helped bring us to where we are now. I’ve worked with a lot of Russell’s technology, so it’s good to know who made it happen!
Trivia Man
@David Fud: when e says “bored” i just hear this: “yawn. Wake me up when it directly and negatively impacts MY comfort.”
Boring is not the current reality in my book.
WereBear
This comes up with goodhearted people, who are then insufficiently wary in situations like “prison ministry.”
But there are people in whom “the light of divine never shines” but only darkness, because there is no trust or social bond with manipulators.
But I think our biggest problem is the weak, who are the worst, according to Agatha Christie:
“once a weak person gets really frightened, they get quite savage with terror and they’ve no self-control at all.”
― Agatha Christie, A Murder Is Announced
LAC
@Leto: it is. Too many people get left out of progress. Thank you for your work!
Leto
@LAC: they 100% do; learning that Hedy Lamarr invented the frequency hopping technology back in WW2 that we currently employ today… that was some mind blowing shit. I mean, I’ve known it for 20+ years now, but I still chuckle every single time. Gams and brains for days!!!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@E.:
You’ve basically just described the interactions of self professed white professional progressives that have flocked here over the last decade when dealing with anybody of color they are effectively looking to displace.
Yeah, these people are “pale blue” in their overall politics, meaning they think that because they voted for Obama and support abortion rights it makes them some liberal paragon when, in fact, they’re the most racially tone deaf people in “the coalition” and push for things exactly as you describe and are SHOCKED! SHOCKED I TELL YOU! when POC say “wait a minute”.
And Denver would also describe itself as some post-racial paragon of virtue when it’s far, far from it.
Kay
@Paul W.:
Preparation is a good idea. For when they ignore a court order.
leeleeFL
@WereBear: So true! Also, that’s one of my favorite Agatha stories!
Westyny
@Mr. Bemused Senior: I’m interested in your reasons for doubting they will succeed. I could use some optimism.
Professor Bigfoot
@brantl: Was it enough to prevent the rise of a white supremacist Trump, or his ultimate victory?
No, it wasn’t.
Kirk
So, I’m from one of King’s “moderate white people” families. I was so bad my first presidential vote was for Reagan. And I more or less drifted that way despite some events that should have awakened me.
My wife is from a very RW family. She’s the radical apostate for a number of reasons. Hot button one misogyny, hot button two race. She has taught me, persuaded me, pushed me. I’ve gotten better.
I had plenty of times prior to marriage to learn from non-whites, both hispanic and black. Hell, I ran around with some of each in high school, and saw some of the 1970s crap they went through. And yet, see the second paragraph.
I can actually hear and see what non-whites and women are saying now. Not perfectly, and sometimes I backslide, but I can and do listen and hear more. But if I had not married my contrary, vocal wife I honestly believe I would still be one of King’s moderate white people because I wasn’t really hearing despite opportunities.
That’s a long way of saying to my fellow white men that we have to stop acting like the non-white voice is going to be heard. It will, kinda-sorta, as well as we hear and then forget any other thing that doesn’t focus our attention. For it to stick it has to come from someone they’ll hear, someone who focuses their attention because they’re “like us”.
So if you’re a fellow white man asking POC and women of all races to speak out, they are. You’re not fucking hearing them.
And if you ARE hearing them, you need to make the fucking effort to open the ears of the ones who aren’t.
Simple. We need to pay the price too, or we’re just shit in the way.
LAC
@Leto: I know!!
And now I got Blazing Saddles playing in my head. 🤣
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Exactly, and the MAGA freak out is because changing demographics means it’s getting harder and harder for them to find a racist white boss who will protect them when they run their stupid mouth at work.
pluky
@zhena gogolia: Go West of Richmond, with the exception of Charlottesville, you might as well be in Mississippi.
Steve LaBonne
@Trivia Man: My former UU congregation is still struggling to get there, which is one of the reasons why it’s my former congregation.
Trivia Man
@zhena gogolia: And Black As Fuck History. Pro tip: get the audio book do you can hear the authors passion and word emphasis.
Professor Bigfoot
@Kirk: I recognize this as a man, a male human American— and how I hadda sit with what awful shits so many men are.
And hadda get smacked down when I said, ‘Hey, not all men!’ when, as the aunties and grannies and sisters told me, “baby, we know it’s now all of you. It’s just so damn many of you!”
So many of us that any woman is only rational to be wary of any man she runs across, UNTIL HE DEMONSTRATES OTHERWISE.
I work hard NOT to be one of those awful shits, but I am also never at all offended when women talk about what awful shits “men” are.
I recognize the “not all,” and I don’t feel like I need to defend my masculinity from it.
Some folks feel they have to defend whiteness, and they don’t even consciously recognize it.
Almost Retired
@Professor Bigfoot: Yup. I’m a Plaintiff-side employment lawyer, and have seen similar scenarios play out repeatedly, even in Los Angeles.
Recently represented a Black woman in insurance sales, who landed a major client. At the last minute, her employer brought in a white man actually named “Skip,” who was sort of known locally for being a part time radio broadcaster for a local college team. Skip only attended the final meeting.
Skip was given full credit for the sale, and my client was fired for not meeting her quota.
We sued. Took the deposition of the targeted client. The VP said “Skip…that idiot? He had nothing to do with our decision to place our business with the company! It was [my client’s name].”
It settled during the lunch break.
sab
@LAC: Thank you for the link.
Ruckus
@scav:
Some humans cannot handle anything more than the simple answer. No matter the question or ideal. They just aren’t equipped well enough.
OR.
Don’t want to know, because that might change the way they see the world and that would be blasphemy.
John S.
@Planetjanet:
It doesn’t matter what the topic is. Trolling is trolling.
It’s an insult to the people who have actually fought racism to describe what is happening here as “fighting racism”.
Ruckus
@Leto:
I’ll ask another question.
Does anyone know what percentage of the population no longer has a home phone?
I don’t and haven’t for over 20 years. Just seems like a total waste of money.
Planetjanet
@John S.: You are the one running away from any discussion of racism. It is very telling.
Kirk
sorry, wrong thread. Deleting and moving to that thread
Soprano2
@Steve LaBonne: I disagree with that. Racism is everyone’s problem to varying degrees. White people are still the dominant group in our country, but they aren’t the only people who can be racist.
Steve LaBonne
@Soprano2: You can’t talk your way around the fact that problems can only be fixed by people with the power to fix them. In this context that means white people. If we’re making excuses for not doing our job, we’re part of the problem.
Marc
Thank you, you are a hell of a lot more eloquent in this thread than I have ever managed to be on the subject (I get angry too quickly). As I’ve stated before, I moved from the Boston area to Silicon Valley in the 80s. For all of its racial problems, the tech scene in Boston in the 70s and 80s was a lot more diverse (in gender and race) than SV was at that time. Both myself and my other black friends in the industry experienced something we called “antler dancing” every single time we showed up at a new company. Some group of white programmers (and they were always white) would take upon themselves to “prove” that we were affirmative action hires, by arguing with us (we were all at the software management level) face to face or in meetings that we didn’t know what we were talking about. I actually had to convince a CEO to fire one guy, as it was bad enough that even white managers could understand what he was doing.
The very last industry job I accepted, I was essentially hired by a VC firm to be CTO of one of their failing investments. The day I walked in the antler dancing started and quickly escalated to screaming matches. At the end of the week I quit, and got a research job working for a professor I knew, from which I just retired. The university wasn’t a perfect place to work. I experienced a number of issues with a few students from China and one specific guy in IT who seemed to enjoy sabotaging my projects, but I could work around them.
One of the things that really anger me these days is the continuing “reminders” from some progressive liberals that Harris lost because of “Arabs” in Michigan, which in my interpretation of the numbers, was nowhere large enough to change that outcome. If you can convince them of that fact, then they immediately shift to the problem being “Black and Latino males”, which they can’t prove either. To flip a script for a second, many white people seem to be unable to comprehend that the problem is in their own culture. I can’t count the number of times white people said that same thing to me with “black” substituted for “white”.
Kirk
@Ruckus: In 2023 a CDC study found that 76% of adults and 87% of children lived in homes without a landline.
Indirect source referencing it from USA TODAY.
Ruckus
@LAC:
I held a high security clearance while in the USN, because we had equipment in every compartment other than storage and someone had to be able to adjust/fix/replace the electronic equipment we had in every compartment other than storage. I ended up stationed on one of the first ships with solid state electronics, and my year of training in repairing that electronic equipment covered both vacuum tube and transistor based electronics. My experience was the same, one had to have a rational, assigned job reason for going into most areas. And I was discharged over 1/2 a century ago. BTW those transistors were nothing like what we see today. Or don’t actually see, in say our cell phones or computers. My current cell phone, which fits in my pocket has 16 BILLION transistors. In my USN days 16 billion transistors would fill, possibly overfill a semi truck trailer.
Geminid
@Reboot: Ben Cline does represent a “safe Republican” seat, in the Shenendoah Valley. He’ll keep it so long as he can survive a primary challenge from the right. I think that is why he wrote this chickenshit response. At least, that’s the first thing I thought when I read it.
Ruckus
@Kirk:
I’d easily believe this because even when we only had phones with a wire connection it was a pain in the butt to either have one phone in the house or wire it for multiple phones and pay for them in one place only, the phone company. Today buying a phone and service is easy, as is a modem for your computer so there are no connecting wires to your service. Makes apartment living far easier. And of course one can plug their phone into a computer to charge it. And for those of us who got into cell phones early on we also know that the quality and abilities of them has gotten a hell of a lot better. And easier to carry, that use less electricity so the battery lasts a lot longer. I’ve had a cell phone since the mid 90s and the difference is amazing – even to someone that was trained and installed/fixed electronic equipment including phones on US Navy vessels. The service is far better, a current cell phone and service is far better than even as little as 20 yrs ago.
John S.
@Planetjanet:
I do so enjoy when people make proclamations about others based on the scantest of information. It’s very convincing.
Professor Bigfoot
@Planetjanet: It is… if you’re a racist.
But that’s why I pied that asshole and generally avoid his toggle buttons.
Reboot
@Betty Cracker: Ugh is right, but one thing about Cline, his office always replies, except once, re: Ukraine.
Geminid
@Geminid: Ben Cline succeeded the long-serving Bob Goodlatte when Goodlatte retired in 2018. Cline was a well-known state Delegate and Goodlatte endorsed him, but he still faced a strong opponent at a district convention. She was affiliated with Liberty University, which is adjacent to the 6th CD.
Cline survived the challenge, but I think it impressed upon him the neccesity of defending his right flank, and his voting and messaging has been staunchly conservative ever since.
Now there is a new factor in Republican party politics: Elon Musk. Trump has captured the Republican base, but he has no obvious political heir. Will it be Elon Musk? Ben Cline doesn’t know, but he’s taking no chances.
artem1s
@AM in NC:
Musk thinks his money and his new pal will protect him. But the problem is when you become a criminal and destroy the rule of law and fire all the police and AGs and judges, then you no longer can expect the protection of the law when the mob comes after you.
Those who helped Hitler take over Germany never expected “The Long Knives” would come for them. Robespierre was rounding up the royals and their servants to feed into the guillotine until the mob turned on him. The “good Germans” in the House and SCOTUS are beyond stupid if they think President Soutpiel and his orange puppet are going to protect them when J6 comes round again.
No One You Know
@Professor Bigfoot: I appreciate your posts. You clearly have a following if you have critics.
I benefit because I am seeking reminders from places and people who aren’t like me that, as the haiku master Bashó wrote,
No One You Know
@Hildebrand: Cosign. There’s a point where being overwhelmed kicks in– but the effort has to be made.
When just listening to it is too much for a person, surely the solution is take a break to examine what’s really getting protected by the need to tell someone else to stop interfering with that person’s entertainment. Because that’s what it sounds like: “what you wrote makes me uncomfortable and I came for a laugh. Amuse me.”
Um, no.
No One You Know
@E.: The photo of that would look stunning in an ad. Any media photographers present? I’m guessing, no?
Kayla Rudbek
@Ksmiami: most of the money supply is the bookkeeping, after all.
Kayla Rudbek
@Trivia Man: the zeroth law of holes: admit that you are in one. The first law of holes: stop digging. I think that RevRick or some other wise people here came up with the second and third law of holes the last time I posted the zeroth and first laws.
Professor Bigfoot
@No One You Know: Thank you, but I prefer to think of them as haters, because they never offer any real criticism.
They just don’t want to hear it, that’s all.