Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

When I was faster i was always behind.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

“But what about the lurkers?”

This fight is for everything.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Let me file that under fuck it.

In my day, never was longer.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Breaking the Ceiling

Breaking the Ceiling

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This is the next move:

(Reuters) -U.S. President Donald Trump on Sunday said his administration was examining U.S. Treasury debt payments for possible fraud and suggested that the country’s $36 trillion debt load might not be that high.

Speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One, Trump said administration officials who have been combing through payment records in an effort to identify wasteful spending have turned their attention to the debt payments that play a central role in the global financial system.

“We’re even looking at Treasuries,” Trump said. “There could be a problem – you’ve been reading about that, with Treasuries and that could be an interesting problem.”

He added: “It could be that a lot of those things don’t count. In other words, that some of that stuff that we’re finding is very fraudulent, therefore maybe we have less debt than we thought.”

The lawbreaking self-appointed King pulling the strings, and the guy who regularly stiffs contractors, are trying to find a way to get around the debt ceiling.  If that means not paying debts, it could be catastrophic.

For those not familiar with how financial markets work, US Treasuries are the ultimate safe asset, used as collateral for everything. Even a hint that some Treasuries might not be honored could bring everything to a screeching halt 1/

— Paul Krugman (@pkrugman.bsky.social) February 9, 2025 at 5:48 PM

Musk and Trump are both in the habit of stiffing people they owe money. If markets even suspect that this habit will extend to Treasuries, God help us 2/

— Paul Krugman (@pkrugman.bsky.social) February 9, 2025 at 5:48 PM

If you’re inclined to be calling your Senators and Rep, and if they’re Republican, you might want to ask them if they’re on board with Trump’s view that backing Treasuries is optional.

Reader Interactions

60Comments

  1. 1.

    RaflW

    Trump sez “that some of that stuff that we’re finding is very fraudulent” but the press never manages to get any details when he makes these outlandish claims. Now we have a spin cycle over Treasury bonds, and who the heck even knows what the mercurial jackass will do, other than fuck it up badly.

    Four goddam years of this game, ending only four freaking years ago, and the press just falls back into the pattern of credulous idiocy. Gaaaaahhh!

  3. 3.

    Old Man Shadow

    Look, people talk about the Great Depression all the time. It’s very popular. It was a great time. Great Depression. Well, I’m gonna bring you such a Greater Depression… it’s gonna be more great. The greatest depression, really. People will talk about it more than that stupid one they called great. Mine will be really great. Such a great depression, it’ll make the other one look like a bad time. Big, burly guys will come to me with tears in their eyes saying, “Sir. Thank you for this Greatest Depression!”

  4. 4.

    Spanky

    Just for the record, no one believes it, because as of right now all of the markets are up.

    Or maybe that herd of sheep are just ostriches. Or something.

  5. 5.

    oldgold

    If you were looking for financial fraud, you might consider sending in a team of forensic accountants as opposed to wet behind the ears tech boys.

  7. 7.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Another Scott:

    Trying to time market moves is almost always a losing game.

    This is true, but there are a lot of us soon to be or perhaps already retired investors who are wondering if there is anywhere safe to put our nest eggs with that asshole & his coterie of corruption in power.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    I’m just happy he’s not proposing more health and safety regulations for workers. Talk about economic disaster.

  10. 10.

    RaflW

    All the major stock indexes, including Japan and UK, are shrugging. Many here will know that while I am a long term investor, I have a very dim view of how most money moves in the market. It is all herds and stampedes when the information that should have been digested finally gets processed by the fund and portfolio managers.

    And all the people betting against a good economy are a key part to how badly this all works, too (lots of short selling going on).

  11. 11.

    Leto

    @oldgold: If you were looking for financial fraud, you wouldn’t have sent a 34 count convicted felon, known huckster, and who lost twice to badass E. Jean Carroll fuckstick to the highest office in the land. Once we did, all bets were off and here we are. But most of us knew that, we just didn’t know the extent to which it would occur. There is no bottom, they just keep going.

  13. 13.

    RaflW

    @NotMax: Pedantic of me, but Vought ordering 1,700 people to do no work for a whole week is in itself a pretty damn big bit of waste and abuse.

  14. 14.

    hells littlest angel

    “I’ll give you ten cents on the dollar, and if you don’t like it you can sue me. You did a lousy job. Fuck you.” It worked with small contractors in New Jersey in the 90s, but it might not work with China today.

  16. 16.

    Ohio Mom

    @oldgold: The idea that any audit — either management and/or financial — could be completed in a matter of a day or two drives me bonkers.

    As well as, as you point out, they generally take a team of CPAs and other professionals. Who slog records, interview staff and stakeholders, meticulously document their every step and culminate their effort in a written report full of citations.

    And if it is a government audit, copies of the report are made available to the public, since the report is a public record.

    Gah!!!

    As far as an economic crisis, Trump will cause one, the only thing yet to be determined is exactly what the trigger will be. I think I suggested in another thread that we start an office/blog pool, it could be either guessing the trigger or the date. Proceeds going to an animal charity, that’s obvious.

  17. 17.

    NickM

    And yet the markets, which I expected to take a dump at this news as well as the tariffs, continued belligerence towards Canada (!), etc. but the Dow and Nasdaq are up.  Please make it make sense.

  21. 21.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @NickM: The press conference on Air Force One Trump really did come across as shit talking,  The only part of that seemed serious in anyway was the executive order to Google to rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America, for which Trump’s staff had tweets ready to go, praising Trump for this bold move, and a nice map.

  22. 22.

    Raoul Paste

    Gold is up $47 today, to over 2900.  The instability message is out there, so I’m surprised the stock market is holding

  24. 24.

    gene108

    Maybe someone informed Trump about the intra government borrowing portion of the debt, which is $7.3 trillion?

    Just screw with the government’s bookkeeping and he can claim to have cut our debt.

    I’m trying to be irrationally optimistic about this.

  25. 25.

    gene108

    @Ohio Mom:

    As well as, as you point out, they generally take a team of CPAs and other professionals. Who slog records, interview staff and stakeholders, meticulously document their every step and culminate their effort in a written report full of citations.

    An audit of a business with $10 million in revenues takes a couple of months, if the auditor is familiar with the business, the books are in order, and supporting documents are provided.

    It can take longer for a business that size if it’s a new client for the auditor or the books are a mess.

  26. 26.

    Betty Cracker

    @Ohio Mom:

    As far as an economic crisis, Trump will cause one, the only thing yet to be determined is exactly what the trigger will be.

    That’s my assumption too. Waiting for the other tiny wingtip to drop sucks. I put it out of my mind as much as possible since I can’t do a goddamn thing about it.

  28. 28.

    Anonymous At Work

    @RaflW: Seems like no one is taking this seriously, which means that markets will move more sharply if it happens since the market is betting he won’t.

    To me, this feels like a warm-up to something else.  Like he’s about to announce a “renegotiation” of existing debt to make bond holders take a haircut.  Elmo and Trump both would not pay contractors, delay subsequent legal proceedings, and then settle for pennies on the dollar (and Trump would then not pay his lawyers, restarting the process).

    The other sneaky suspicion is that someone wants to target particular bond holders but the only one that comes to mind is China, since that would really tank their exports.  It’d tank our entire economy as well, but I think Xing is more likely to have a literal gun pointed to his head over economic collapse than Trump.

  30. 30.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @oldgold:

    If you were looking for financial fraud, you might consider sending in a team of forensic accountants as opposed to wet behind the ears tech boys.

    And you might start at the Pentagon which has never passed an audit but of course not if it’s one of your payment centers.

  31. 31.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @NickM: The markets haven’t made sense in a long, long time.

    Hell, even way, way back when they were “normal,” Monday trading suffered if one of the NYC teams in any sport lost.

    Calling it a crap shoot is an insult to shooting craps, but obviously, in the long term, the US stock market is still making more money for more investors than almost any other game in town.

  33. 33.

    RevRick

    @NickM:

    @VFX Lurker:

    Trump spews so much bullshit that many discount anything he says until he actually does something.
    Screwing with the Treasuries would be the ultimate act of stupidity, since they are the world’s gold standard. Every financial instrument in the world is gaged by them. Institutions and individuals hold them, even if they are taking a real financial loss when adjusting for inflation, because they represent surety. 
    What Trump and his fellow knuckleheads can’t seem to understand is that destroying that surety, destroys the basis of their own wealth.
    Not paying US debt obligations would swiftly collapse the financial system, freeze up all business transactions, and crater the stock markets. Just look what happened in 2008 when 4% of mortgages went to shit. It started a cascading failure that was only halted when the Treasury, backed by Treasuries, said that we will do anything to stem the tide, including throwing gobs of money at it.

  34. 34.

    Captain C

    @Anonymous At Work:

    The other sneaky suspicion is that someone wants to target particular bond holders but the only one that comes to mind is China, since that would really tank their exports.  It’d tank our entire economy as well, but I think Xing is more likely to have a literal gun pointed to his head over economic collapse than Trump.

    I wonder if that’s also the thing that would lead Xi to go YOLO! and invade Taiwan, on the grounds that a financially crashed USA couldn’t and (with TCFG and Skum in charge) wouldn’t lift a finger to stop him.

    I seriously wonder how much of this with Skum is “if I can’t have Grimes, the world must burn!”

  35. 35.

    Citizen Alan

    @Scamp Dog: i think the plan is to cause multiple kinds of economic instability that all cancel each other out, leading instead to economic prosperity. You know, a plan so stupid it’s genius?

  36. 36.

    NotMax

    @RevRick

    “But- but- J.P. Morgan bailed out the entire U.S. government just by writing a check during the crash of 1893. Surely Elon would do the same today.”
    //

  42. 42.

    trollhattan

    Well shit. Thanks for this, Donny and Bibi.

    Here’s the full statement from Hamas’s armed wing:
    “Over the past three weeks, the leadership of the resistance has monitored the enemy’s violations and its failure to comply with the terms of the agreement.
    “These violations include delaying the return of displaced persons to northern Gaza, targeting them with shelling and gunfire in various areas of the Strip, and failing to allow the entry of humanitarian aid in all its agreed-upon forms.
    “Meanwhile, the resistance has fully honoured its commitments.
    “Accordingly, the release of the Zionist prisoners, which was scheduled for Saturday, February 15, 2025, will be postponed until further notice, pending the enemy’s compliance and the retroactive fulfillment of the past weeks’ obligations.
    “We reaffirm our commitment to the terms of the agreement as long as the occupation adheres to them.”
    We’ll bring you Israel’s reaction as soon as we have it.

  44. 44.

    cmorenc

    @NickM:

    And yet the markets, which I expected to take a dump at this news as well as the tariffs, continued belligerence towards Canada (!), etc. but the Dow and Nasdaq are up.  Please make it make sense.

    It’s because the big financial / commerce community firmly assumes that for all Trump’s big-stick-swaggering talk, he won’t really take a very big walk toward doing damaging stuff to big business and the economy.  How modestly they think he will really go with tariffs despite the big talk is a prime specific example. That’s the message we’ve been getting from our Morgan Stanley retirement account managers in meetings and e-newsletters.

  47. 47.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @schrodingers_cat: “So the ultimate question is— if he actually was a Russian agent, what would he be doing differently?”

    Oh well, they said they’d rather be Russian than Democrat, so here we are.

  48. 48.

    WereBear

    If it took our Titans of industry this long to figure out that Trump could quickly crash the entire economy, I don’t think they’re very high-grade Titans at all.

  50. 50.

    Captain C

    @Professor Bigfoot:

    Oh well, they said they’d rather be Russian than Democrat, so here we are.

    They should put their money where their mouth is and move there.  Hell, if they bring their firearms, I bet Putin will send them right to the front lines where they can live out their cannon fodder warrior fantasies.

  52. 52.

    JaySinWA

    @trollhattan:

    We’re in full move fast and break things mode.

    Can’t WAIT to find how it all turns out.

    I am pretty sure things will be broken.

    Of course Donny will rebuild it just like the Gaza Riviera. It will be glorious./s

  54. 54.

    cain

    @RaflW: Perhaps a great depression will fix their attitude.

    You know this is all google’s fault thanks to the way they they control ads on the web. It’s fucked up everything.

    This is why google is kissing Trump’s ass. They don’t’ want him touching that cash cow.

  55. 55.

    Bill Arnold

    @Anonymous At Work:

    The other sneaky suspicion is that someone wants to target particular bond holders

    The Social Security trust fund.
    Should have invested it in French government bonds, suckers!

  56. 56.

    Soprano2

    @RaflW: The market is mostly about their feels as opposed to actual hard data. That’s been my observation, anyway.

    I agree that the markets don’t believe this is going to happen, at least not yet.

  59. 59.

    jonas

    @NickM: Tariffs are a kind of tax that will be a drag on the economy, possibly leading the Fed to lower interest rates quicker. The markets are thinking about interest rates, not the fates of various industries affected by tariffs. That will come later.

  60. 60.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Bill Arnold: Crash the trust fund and you’ll have to cut benefits to the currently-retired, the soon-to-be retired and the middle-aged expecting-to-retire-eventually.  You know, a lot of people that voted for Trump expecting to gain, not have to work until they literally die.

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