For a $50 to $75 donation, staff at an Oregon sanctuary will write your ex’s name on a “bloody heart” to be fed to one of their resident wildcats.
— The Oregonian (@oregonian.com) January 28, 2025 at 3:00 PM
(Looks like the sanctuary is still taking donations)
Better late notice than never, I hope:
Great that they’re doing something in DC.
Now, they need to do Columbus & Columbia, Baton Rouge & Boise, Jefferson City & Jackson, Atlanta & Austin, Charleston & Cheyenne, Oklahoma City & Salt Lake City, & the state & district office of every Republican in Congress.— Dana Houle (@danahoule.bsky.social) February 10, 2025 at 3:30 PM
Corrupt billionaires are shutting down the corruption watchdog agency pic.twitter.com/WjKIMBNlFx
— FactPost (@factpostnews) February 10, 2025
Per the NYTimes, an hour ago — “Confusion Reigns as ‘a Wrecking Ball’ Hits the Consumer Bureau”: [gift link]
Barely two days after Russell Vought, the new acting director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, ordered the agency to close its office and halt all its work, employees spent Monday in a state of deep confusion about what they should — or should not — be doing.
Mr. Vought, the recently confirmed director of the Office of Management and Budget, whom President Trump installed late Friday as the consumer bureau’s temporary leader, sent an all-staff email on Monday reiterating the instructions he issued over the weekend: Stop everything.
“Stand down from performing any work task,” Mr. Vought wrote. “Employees should not come into the office.” Workers were told to contact Mark Paoletta, named in the email as the agency’s chief legal officer, for approval before doing anything at all.
On encrypted chat apps and an instant-message platform run by the consumer bureau’s union, employees tried to decipher what, exactly, Mr. Vought’s instructions meant. Could they talk to one another on the bureau’s Microsoft Teams messaging system? Could they read their email, or would that be a violation of the stop-work command? Could they use their unexpected down time to complete required online training programs?
No answers were forthcoming, said several agency employees, who asked not to be named because workers had been ordered not to speak publicly. Department leaders were left to field questions from alarmed employees without any guidance from their new bosses on what to say. Bureau representatives and Mr. Paoletta did not respond to requests for comment…
A sudden, complete halt to the work of a prudential regulator — agencies like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which are assigned to oversee the safety of America’s institutions and guard against systemic risks — has no precedent. Examiners who typically work on site at banks and other lenders they oversee stayed home, and agency lawyers scrambled to figure out how to handle court deadlines this week on several high-profile enforcement cases.
Richard Cordray, appointed by President Barack Obama as the agency’s inaugural director after its creation in 2011, said he considered Mr. Vought’s stop-work order illegal…
The consumer bureau’s staff union sued Mr. Vought on Sunday night, challenging the legality of his stop-work order. Several employees said they hoped the courts would act soon to clarify a situation that multiple people described as “surreal.” Without any guidance from above, colleagues turned to one another for intel and gallows humor…
Bureau workers, consumer advocates and several Democratic lawmakers staged a rally Monday afternoon outside the consumer bureau’s closed headquarters.
“We’re going to shut down the Elon Musk operation,” Senator Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland, told the crowd.
Describing Mr. Musk as “the co-president now of the United States of America,” Representative Maxine Waters of California denounced him as a “gangster” and used a profanity in her invitation to Mr. Musk to “come here and face us.”
“He’s not going to kill the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau,” Ms. Waters said. “We will not allow it.”
Elon wants the CFPB gone so tech billionaires can profit from apps, like X, that offer bank-like services but don’t follow financial laws that keep people’s money safe. Musk wants to use the government to put more in his pockets. This is a blatant conflict of interest. www.npr.org/2025/02/07/g…
— Senator Ed Markey (@markey.senate.gov) February 8, 2025 at 7:15 PM
.@EWarren: The CFPB is the one that caught the crooks and has made them give back $21 billion. The CFPB is the one who worked day by day to get your money back when some slime ball decided they could cheat you pic.twitter.com/Roc8xJ0HOv
— FactPost (@factpostnews) February 10, 2025
.@AyannaPressley: The CFPB got banks to cap overdraft fees, they take on scammers that are after our elders' money, they stopped medical debt from digging into your credit report, they go after banks that practice lending discrimination. This is what we're going to dismantle?… pic.twitter.com/ip1rtimOb3
— FactPost (@factpostnews) February 10, 2025
New: CPFB Union names three DOGE “minions” that were spotted in the internal staff directory last night pic.twitter.com/7T5RdMDD5O
— Matt Berg (@mattberg33) February 7, 2025
a continuing reminder that Musk is simply not a reliable narrator, which is what makes all of this so challenging.
We freak out because of what musk is saying, but what is actually happening is obviously not quite what he's saying.— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) February 7, 2025 at 6:52 PM
Plainly unlawful and unconstitutional. No one can issue such an order; the President and his officers cannot simply ignore an entity created and funded by Congress.
— Max Kennerly (@maxkennerly.bsky.social) February 9, 2025 at 12:15 AM
genuinely enraging that we will spend the next several years cleaning up real problems because an unelected billionaire and one who should have been ineligible for re-election are malicious dipshits who believe in fake problems
— GOLIKEHELLMACHINE (@golikehellmachine.com) February 10, 2025 at 8:05 PM
On The Road – Mike S. (now with a Democratic Congressperson!) – A Superbloom of flowers in Namaqualand, South Africa, August 2024
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Good morning.
Quantum man
Musk should be arrested and charged with the crimes he is committing. When he ignores court rulings judges need to charge him with contempt and order his arrest!
Glory b
But everyone knows that only Congressional Democrats have agency!
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Still on the treadmill … Lol.
Looks like I’ll be making yet another series of calls to my do-nothing Congress critters today, time permitting.
Only to be told my senator/representative is very interested in my concerns but has not expressed an opinion on _______ (fill in the blank).
Glory b
@Quantum man: The potential problem is that those judicial orders must be carried out by the US Marshall’s, who are under the direction of AG Pam Bondi.
If she refuses to give them those directions, there WILL BE a full blown constitutional crisis. Judicial orders are only scraps of paper without an AG who will defer to them.
We’re close to being Hungary under Orhban.
Peale
We really are going back to using coffee cans as more reliable alternatives to savings accounts, aren’t we?
Scout211
US Military families in Germany are not happy with the SecDef.
Spanky
@Peale: And modern mattresses are deeper than the vintage kind to account for inflation.
Nukular Biskits
Cartoon: GOP Watchdog
Jeffro
There’s a whole lot of winning ahead for those who run against MAGA corruption and theft. You’ll certainly never run out of examples!
Nukular Biskits
@Scout211:
More of this, please.
Scout211
And good news, it’s official.
NotMax
@Glory b
Extreme measure but AFAIK judges retain the authority to deputize personnel (who do not report to DOJ).
Jeffro
Lozada sums it all up quite nicely today: America’s just chock-full of people that trump doesn’t like
Of course not. trump only selects for loyalty to him and his corrupt schemes. Well, that and a lack of melanin.
“Loyalty and whiteness” = trump 2-question job application
Jackie
@Scout211: I was just going to post this exciting news! :D
sentient ai from the future
Judges also, i’ve read, have wide latitude to do things like freeze assets. Which seems relevant when discussing oligarchs and their ability to exert power
Nukular Biskits
Not a peep of opposition from the GOP:
Trump Says No Right of Return for Palestinians in Gaza Under His Plan of ‘A Real Estate Development for the Future’
Nukular Biskits
@Jeffro:
I suggest “and/or”.
schrodingers_cat
@Nukular Biskits: Forget Rs I haven’t heard a peep from the pro-Palestinian protestors or the commenters who would spam every thread with what about GAAZA and Genocide Joe.
TBone
PSA on TCM right now
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsieur_Hulot
Betty Cracker
Senator Warren floated an interesting theory last night on Maddow’s show. To sum up, even if Trusk & Mump are beyond the reach of the courts, the minions who execute their illegal orders are not. Maybe the courts can compel the minion known as BigBalls2006 to stop his illegal activities even if the co-presidents are untouchable. We’ll see, I guess.
Leto
@Scout211: good.
Nukular Biskits
@Betty Cracker:
I wonder if the federal courts Consider citizen lawsuits IE Do citizens have standing Individual individuals Working for DOGE
Eta: Sorry for the chopping post I’m doing voice to text with background music
TBone
@TBone: I’m on French holiday with Monsieur for some precious, priceless moments… thank you TCM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Vacances_de_Monsieur_Hulot
Leto
@Nukular Biskits: yeah, see Eric Adams for that. But in general, it’s still a good metric.
NotMax
@TBone
Oh, that squeaky hinge on the door to the dining room!
Ocotillo
Yesterday, at the gym I was watching/listening to CNN (I know, I know). The MAGA head said the $21 bil the CFPB had collected from banks was a hit on their profits, his contention was the big bad government was taking money from the poor banks. The talking head was poorly defending the CFPB when he was asking whose money that was when the answer was, it belongs to the cheated consumers and the agency had returned the money to the people who had been cheated out of it. It was infuriating that she could not articulate this point.
Kay
Richard Cordray is a really smart and creative lawyer. It makes me feel a little better that he’s thinking about all this. We need new thinkers.
Leto
@Betty Cracker: that’s where I am atm (Guess we’ll see). Mainly trying to preserve sanity.
YY_Sima Qian
Apparently, Trump just signed an EO to halt enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
Belafon
@Glory b: And they were actually talking about this on Good Morning America this morning, about what will happen if the Supreme Court tells Trump and Musk they can’t do that and they ignore the ruling.
Jobeth
So this morning I’m seeing a lot of posts on Facebook about Musk donating 5 billion in Tesla stock to charity in 2022 (to his own foundation – not mentioned) and praising him for being such a great philanthropist. I guess the whitewashing of his image has begun. Can’t wait to see the AI images of St Elon that are sure to start appearing soon .
Leto
Carl Sagan, from his 1995 book, g-d Oracle of Delphi here.
Spanky
@YY_Sima Qian: Say! Those guys really are efficient! I never expected to reach Third World status this quickly.
cmorenc
@Quantum man:
What happens if/when AG Pam Bondi orders the US Marshall service to ignore federal district court orders to bring Russell Vought, Musk et. al. before them for violating court injunctions and orders? What happens to Bondi if she does comply and Trump is displeased with her failure to defy the courts?
Kay
@YY_Sima Qian:
Yup. It’s a no holds barred crime spree. This is what happens when you don’t prosecute (rich and/or powerful) criminals – they’re emboldened. The criminal justice system has basically collapsed in terms of the powerful. Civil courts are still holding up – plaintiff’s lawyers are still prevailing – but Trump’s ignoring the orders anyway.
They have to enforce court orders. If they don’t the civil system will collapse too.
TBone
Some of my very best and oldest friends, a couple I’ve known for decades plus their parents are like my adopted parents, are very moderate rethugs but definitely not MAGA. They got this book in church on Superbowl Sunday before our celebrations and I’M SO HERE FOR IT. They HATE Donold.
https://www.evanmawarire.org/
Crazy Epic Courage.
My friends rawk. They almost lost their newly married only child son last year and he almost lost his new home they all renovated. The hubby is nicknamed Uncle Tio by his crew.
Belafon
@YY_Sima Qian: I need to find proof of that. We’ll love it here at work.
Betty Cracker
@Leto: Yep. Sagan was a prophet.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
RaflW
It’s just a vast criminal enterprise, this White House. The latest:
This was at least reported by ABC, so someone in ‘big media’ has noticed that the criminals are stripping off all the guardrails. Can we respond in time and with enough organized opposition?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Analysis on Hair Furor’s order to stop penny production and how it’ll cost more taxpayer money because of the reverberation effect on the nickel:
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/10/business/costs-of-pennies-and-nickels/index.html?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-us
Yeah, it’s CNN but it’s CNN’s non-cable reporting which I’ve learned thru my normie wife is actually quite good as a rule.
Belafon
@Jobeth: It hasn’t begun. Most of us bought into the idea that he was smart and, while a little kooky, doing things that were ultimately beneficial to humanity. He did an entire Simpsons episode, appeared on Big Bang Theory next to Howard, and was the inspiration for a character in Seven Eves. No, what you’re seeing is an attempt to prop that image up. Somehow, I bet Big Bang Theory and Neil Stephenson would take those back, and the Simpsons people would be really making fun of him now.
Kay
@schrodingers_cat:
The pro Palestinian protestors are still demanding that we follow international law and our own laws on treatment of Palestinians. They demanded that with Biden and they’re demanding it with Trump. Consistent. That’s how laws remain valid – you can’t pick and choose when to apply them.
Trump’s ethnic cleansing attempts are unlawful under US and international law and so is bombing hospitals. If you support the laws use re: Trump you should have supported it re: Biden.
Because this is EXACTLY what happens when we ignore laws – the bad guys ignore them too. Biden’s actions and Trump’s actions are connected, which is what the protestors tried to tell you. They said we would regret our actions in Gaza because once no one is following rules all bets are off. All bets are off. They were right.
sentient ai from the future
If capital has gravity (centers of capital accumulate more capital) then it can also have an event horizon, and I think we are inside of it right now. Whether we can escape or not remains to be seen, but future regulators need to understand this.
Here’s a palate cleanser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfUwbjtHnPE
NotMax
@comrade scotts agenda of rage
CNN channel on Roku offers both U.S. cable CNN and CNN Worldwide, the latter of which is so much better.
Leto
@Nukular Biskits: here’s an addition: ABC News – Trump says he could withhold aid from Jordan and Egypt if they reject his Gaza plan
How many more weeks until we’re at full pariah state reputation? This used to be a thing that we’d collectively call out if it was another nation, but here we are.
@Betty Cracker: 1995 was about the same time that Republicans killed the super collider funding that was planning to be built in Texas, effectively ceding that to Switzerland/the EU. *vacant blinking
TBone
@NotMax: this movie gives me new life, hahahaha!
Kay
@schrodingers_cat:
Trump’s ethnic cleansing will fail. He’ll have to put US troops in there and forcibly remove them – they’re not going anywhere.
We leveled Gaza and Palestinian civilians responded by setting up schools in tents. They’re much, much tougher than a sleazy NY real estate heir and his media cheerleaders.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Jobeth: Consider this Musk White Washing in this context: Trump refused to endorse Vance as his successor on Fox. The paranoids are taking it a sign of Trump is anointing Trump as Trump for life! Me, I take it as Trump is pissed at Musk over that Time cover and blaming Vance for bringing Musk in.
Kay
@Leto:
Do you think there would be any military pushback if he put US troops in Gaza to do ethnic cleansing?
Leto
@Kay: while I think there might be some, the military has already shown that it’s going to comply with orders. As much as I harp on LOAC, Geneva Conventions, and how we have training on “just following orders” isn’t a good moral/legal explanation… I also served 22.5 years with a ton of people and I simply don’t have the confidence to say it won’t happen. I’ve heard how they talk about most of that region, and this is from both enlisted and officers. Like with so much else, I guess we’ll see.
Kay
@Leto:
I think what I’m asking is would US troops refuse an unlawful order? One that violates US and international law? How would that work anyway? Is it individuals refusing or units or leaders or what? Is there like a formal process – submit an objection “I will not participate in ethnic cleansing”? What is the tribunal one would take it to?
rikyrah
Auntie Smartassy (@AuntSassyAss) posted at 6:04 PM on Mon, Feb 10, 2025:
Google has removed Black History and Pride Month. Updated Google map to Gulf of America. So, what’s an alternative search engine and map? Screw Google
(https://x.com/AuntSassyAss/status/1889103069176041695?t=bQIV_Rc7r7K9G83P5bUXLg&s=03)
sentient ai from the future
@rikyrah: while I agree with the sentiment, it reminds me of the issue on FB where people were complaining that the shitbird had been added to their feeds, when the white house account they were subscribed to had merely changed hands. Right, but for the wrong reasons.
Also, duckduckgo is pretty ok and you can turn off the “ai”
Belafon
@Kay:
And what they got out of making both sides equal is a party that will help Israel push Palestinians out of Gaza. We don’t have to put troops in if Netanyahu wipes them all out.
Belafon
@rikyrah: I need a replacement for Google maps that includes traffic updates. You cannot get around the DFW area now without it.
YY_Sima Qian
@Belafon: My employer requires us to take online refreshers on the FCPA annually, & the material makes it clear the risks (criminal, financial, reputational) associated w/ violating the US laws.
Will be interesting if it is still required this year.
sentient ai from the future
@Belafon: good traffic updates are a network effect. Google’s as well as Yandex in other places, improves theirs by analysis of location data of everyone using the service as well as integration of DOT notifications.
The more people using Google maps (or apples equivalent, etc) the better the traffic reporting will be.
That said, this is a convenience that we lived our lives entirely without in the very recent past. Suck it up.
Leto
@Kay: they first have to recognize it as an unlawful order. That’ll be SNCOs and officers. They’ll then refuse to follow that order. It’s basically a verbal declaration, but probably followed by a written declaration (via email or otherwise drafted). At that point, they’ll be taken out of the chain of command. The UCMJ says that a member MUST refuse unlawful orders. But here’s the thing: it’ll then get tossed to our legal system (military courts) where it’ll take forever to get adjudicated (article 92 proceedings). In the meantime, someone else will be put in that position who WILL follow the order and shit will keep on going. Like, you need to have a mass of officers/SNCOs come together to collectively say, “No, we’re not going to do this.” Idk if that’ll happen. I don’t want to test this, but we might also be a point where it’ll be tested. We’ll see!
Matt McIrvin
@Belafon: That’s the thing–OpenStreetMap is a pretty good non-corporate replacement for most pure mapping purposes, there are mobile apps that use it (often requiring regional downloads that the app can then use offline), and it can even give driving directions, but it can’t give you live traffic updates.
(Ironically, OSM’s default Web display has had a bug for a while, long before all this nonsense, that keeps it from displaying the name of the Gulf of Mexico at all. But you can see what it is if you go into edit mode. So far, the consensus there has stood firm on keeping Trump’s version tagged as an alternate name, which seems correct to me.)
Unwinding Google’s dominance of things that have become considered basic Internet services is going to be one of the hardest things to do, if you want to be free of them. And it will usually come at a cost in convenience. But that may be worth it to you.
MomSense
@Kay:
I know from a friend whose son is an Army officer and West Point grad that they have been meeting about what to do. The problem is that such a high percentage of active duty are Trump supporters. My friend is worried that if her son tries to stop his men from following an illegal order, they will turn on him. It’s a legitimate fear.
We have been on a knife’s edge in this country for a really long time, decades, and now it is coming to a head.
sentient ai from the future
@Leto: its also less likely we the public will be aware of it if the system for refusing illegal orders is working, but we will absolutely know it when it is not (in the case of opening fire on civilians)
Belafon
@YY_Sima Qian: Same here.
Belafon
@sentient ai from the future: We also didn’t have 8.5 million people in the DFW area the last time I did without it. I would just like to avoid the 3 hour sitting on the highway when two semis collide.
sentient ai from the future
@Matt McIrvin: been around for a while but always worth pitching to new communities: https://degooglisons-internet.org/en/
RaflW
In the glimmers of hope category, the Pope told Catholic convert JD Vance he’s most definitely doing his Catholicism wrong. OK, Il Papa was a bit more circumscribed than that, but he gets his point across clearly (via Rebecca Solnit):
Pope Francis has written a sweeping letter to the U.S. bishops decrying the “major crisis” triggered by President Donald Trump’s mass deportation plans and explicitly rejecting Vice President J.D. Vance’s attempts to use Catholic theology to justify the administration’s immigration crackdown.
“The act of deporting people who in many cases have left their own land for reasons of extreme poverty, insecurity, exploitation, persecution or serious deterioration of the environment, damages the dignity of many men and women, and of entire families, and places them in a state of particular vulnerability and defenselessness,” reads the pope’s Feb. 11 letter.
The pope’s letter, published by the Vatican in both English and Spanish, offered his solidarity with U.S. bishops who are engaged in migration advocacy and draws a parallel between Jesus’ own experience as a migrant and the current geopolitical situation.
“Jesus Christ…did not live apart from the difficult experience of being expelled from his own land because of an imminent risk to his life, and from the experience of having to take refuge in a society and a culture foreign to his own,” writes Francis.
While the letter acknowledges the right of every country to enact necessary policies to defend itself and promote public safety, the pope said that all laws must be enacted “in the light of the dignity of the person and his or her fundamental rights, not vice versa.”
Leto
@Kay: here’s a good addendum to that from an officer, which basically lines up with my explanation:
Again, this isn’t something I want to test. Bush and co. Legally mandated torture. Look at who from the Abu Ghraib scandal was punished: not the actual people in leadership/command, but some fucking low level enlisted people who didn’t have the command authority to wipe the poop from their butts. We had the war criminal from the SEALs prosecuted, but then Trumpov pardoned him. That right there set a precedent. What happens when he does order the ethnic cleansing of an area, then just pardons everyone? Under our current law, that’s A-OK.
Again, I don’t want to test any of this. I’m not confident of the outcome.
Leto
@MomSense: yup, that’s what I’m hearing from my active duty side people as well: already asking these questions, not coming back with positive results. I’d talk about the dangers of an all volunteer military, but idk… maybe we can talk about this in sane times.
Matt McIrvin
@Belafon: In the first season of Star Trek: Discovery, there was a moment when a character mentioned Elon Musk in a list of great aviation/space pioneers. Later, that character turned out to be a villainous ringer from the evil Mirror Universe, and some viewers subsequently took that line as foreshadowing. But I’m pretty sure it wasn’t so intended.
Bupalos
One of the challenges here, as I riff off the Betty Cracker thread earlier, is that people walk around every day not appreciating the near magical societal ride they enjoy, from chairs flying through the sky to hot showers to practically not having to lift a finger to make your nutritional needs an afterthought….
And we have to be like “please come out and protest for the $7 dollars a year that this bureau theoretically saved you.” This is kinda why Biden failed. We aren’t going to be able to do this citing marginal tangible benefits in this luxury-soaked, over-stimulated, entertained-to-death modern world. It has to have a narrative. EAT THE RICH BEFORE THEY EAT YOU!!!
Matt McIrvin
@RaflW: Maybe Francis should have encouraged voting for Trump’s opponent. Well, better late than never.
Kay
@Leto:
Thanks. I agree on low level prosecutions. All they do is corrode credibility if all the powerful people are untouchable.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Soldiers refusing to follow orders when the orders were beyond abhorrent:
https://theconversation.com/remembering-the-us-soldiers-who-refused-orders-to-murder-native-americans-at-sand-creek-68211
Of course, the instigator of it, Chivington, was never court-martialed or prosecuted. It did stop his political career from every getting any traction. He’s probably one of the worst people in ‘Murkin history most people no nothing about:
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/blog/the-sand-creek-massacre/
We could be marching down that path…again. Sigh.
Spanky
@Leto:
We should live so long.
RaflW
@YY_Sima Qian: Also, these two gifts to criminal behavior:
DoJ has cancelled the previous WH’s program to go after Russian oligarch money sloshing around the world, and ended the Foreign Influence Task Force, which was established in the first Trump administration to police influence campaigns staged by Russia and other nations aimed at sowing discord, undermining democracy and spreading disinformation.
Leto
@Matt McIrvin: I was discussing this with Avalune yesterday, specifically what the Star Trek universe had to go through to get to that “utopian” society. WW3 and the Eugenics Wars. Something like 3/4 of humans died. It was from that rubble that humanity finally decided to try something different. And even then, it almost didn’t work: in ST: Enterprise, you had the Human First coalition try to sabotage the formation of the Federation by blowing up some Mars colony. And that’s not even counting magic technology involved that helped make our lives better, or the fact we met a more advanced alien species that wanted to help us.
It’s just something I’m thinking a lot more about as of late.
Belafon
@Bupalos: With people who either believe that the rich won’t eat them, or that they’ll be somehow better when the rich poop (work safe-word) them out later.
UncleEbeneezer
@schrodingers_cat: It’s just not as much fun when they can’t use it to tear down a Democrat.
Kay
@Belafon:
Look, a war crime is a war crime. Once you’re arguing “OUR war crimes are less damaging then THEIR war crimes!” you’re in the crazy zone. They look at you like you’re crazy when you say this because, frankly, it is crazy. “Bombing hospitals is BETTER than ethnic cleansing!” What? Do you hear yourself? That’s why it wasn’t persuasive.
It’s not an argument in this context. This isn’t “the public option” versus Medicare. US actions in Gaza were unlawful under Biden and they will continue to be unlawful under Trump and now liberals don’t have a fucking leg to stand on because we blithely ignored the crimes when our guy was doing them. That’s how laws work. Have to APPLY, always.
It’s actually much, much worse than Biden v Trump. International law no longer applies to US troops or civilians either now. Once you bless bombing hospitals all bets are off. All bets are off. Which is exactly what the protestors said would happen.
Danes on Reddit equate US actions in Gaza with US threats to take Greenland. They think these things are connected. I do too.
Kay
@UncleEbeneezer:
“Our war crimes are BETTER than their war crimes!”
You backed one set of war crimes. Now you object to the next phase? People will laugh at you, and they should.
Go ahead. Die on that hill. Defend the civilian killings while objecting to the ethnic cleansing. It’s all the same code. You don’t get to pick and choose depending on the D or R after the name.
Leto
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: yup, didn’t know about this; saving it for later, ty! If you see any gaps I missed wrt to orders, I more than welcome the additional info.
Matt McIrvin
@Leto: Right–Star Trek (most of its shows, at least) takes place in a world in which humans have nominally worked out a lot of their big problems, but even when Gene Roddenberry with his determinedly utopian outlook was running things, it was never sanguine about what it took to get there or how hard it would be to maintain. All that happens long after we’re dead.
If anything, the original show’s version of the late 20th century was far worse than what we got, and while it’s never been very consistent, that catastrophe keeps getting pushed onward with the show’s vaguely sliding timeline so that it’s always sometime in the near-ish future.
I’m pretty sure we’re not going to get any magic technology like warp drives or matter replicators. But, wisely applied, the technologies we already have could bring about a far better world. The problem is that too many of the people who actually have power aren’t interested in that; they’re interested in grabbing theirs and punishing their enemies.
Kay
@UncleEbeneezer:
I didn’t know what Haris would do. I had some hope. But I know what Biden did and would do. Anyone who followed this even casually knows that.
You can’t ignore the parts of a legal or moral or ethics code that are politically inconvenient to you. The whole thing applies, to everyone, everywhere or NONE of it does. Now none of it does. Reap the fucking whirlwind. There’s going to be a lot of “relocations” of ethnic groups.
Belafon
@Kay: Of course war crimes are war crimes, and I want Netanyahu and Hamas both prosecuted. But the argument isn’t over that. The argument is over which of the two people in 2024, because we had a binary choice in November, had a better chance of keeping Gaza from being permanently removed from world maps and keeping people alive. If you don’t believe either did, well, then I guess we are where we are.
oldgold
@Kay: No, regardless of the topic, distinctions should be made and taken into consideration.
Kay
@Belafon:
The young ones think we’re full of shit and I don’t blame them. The exact same legal authorities and humanitarian groups we relied on to state that Bush was committing war crimes said Israel (with US backing) was committing war crimes. Not just a few people! Not just anti Semites! Literally every credible human rights group and international law tribunal.
But that was politically inconvenient to us, so we ignored it, minimized it, insisted it was “Russian ops” or anti Semitism or these were just some light war crimes and it could be worse. And, INSANELY, argued that some war crimes were fine while others were off limits. So here we are. With an expansion of vioilations of the same code. Except now we no moral authority.
Leto
@Matt McIrvin: in my Environmental Philosophy class we’re studying the differences between Native American philosophy and Western philosophy, in regards to nature/resource management. Also how western science is coming around to long held Native knowledge. You’re correct in your last paragraph; not sure how we totally reorient ourselves, but I’m guessing the oncoming climate catastrophe will do a lot of that for us. Otherwise it’ll look a lot like Margret Atwood’s MadAddam trilogy.
Edit: thought I’d link the two books we’re using for that class: “Braiding Sweetgrass” and “Ways of Being in the World”. Both are Native American centric; Braiding is by Dr Robin Kimmimer, Native American biologist. Really digging that one. Ways of Being is an anthology done by a bunch of different Native authors, exploring a variety themes/topics. Also really interesting.
Kay
@Belafon:
These things are connected. One leads inexorably to another because once you throw out the code you throw out the code. Democrats weren’t going to win forever. All we were doing was barely holding the line and now we have zero ground to stand on.
It’s 55k dead civilians out of a population of 2 million. Compare to Ukraine. 40 million, 10k dead civilians. Do you see now why The Pro Palestinian Youths think we’re full of shit? WE ARE. They’re right. We pick and choose depending on which team is at bat.
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: Good morning Ms. Cat. We were talking the other day about getting in contact. I could not make the link you provided work so if you would, please forward your email address through one of our hardworking front pagers. I think I’m about to get snowed in for the next week so I’ll have time to respond to any inquiries regarding landscape design.
Gretchen
@Kay: you can’t ignore that you had a choice between Trump and Harris. That’s the choice. Which would have been better for the Palestinians? It’s not a hard question
Kay
@Belafon:
All of these analyses stop after one cycle. What was the plan? No one would expand on the war crimes because Democrats would win forever? We threw out the code but that’s okay because we’ll just win every cycle, in perpetuity? Minimize, ignore, barely eke another cycle and then repeat. And don’t goddamned lose! Dear God, then the bad guys will have a lawless field. Predictably, we lost one, and predictably, they took our fucking ball and RAN with it. Reap the whirlwind.
Belafon
@Gretchen: I believe the answer is neither.
TBone
@Leto: thank you. Knowledge is power!
And, sometimes, the old ways are best. Noah’s nasal discharge was bright yellow at first, causing the vet to declare liver failure and imminent death. I declared it was the annato extract in the liver supplement she’d prescribed and treated the nasal problem with saline solution and a cool mist humidifier. Problem SOLVED.
Supplement was filed in the circular file! (Garbage can.)
Old Man Shadow
Admittedly, I am not a political genius, but it does seem like someone better than I could actually make something of the GOP shutting down inspectors general and agencies specifically designed to protect the average Joe from Wells Fargo and Chase.
Kay
@Gretchen:
Well, this analysis begins, like most BJ analysis, with “the Left lost the election for Democrats”. That’s made up so I’d prefer not to start there. I’m not conceding that reality point. I think it’s just as likely (more likely really) moderate Democrats lurched Right. That’s certainly what happened in Ohio. We went from 45 D to 25D in two cycles in Ohio. Republicans picked up all of it. D’s went RIGHT, not LEFT.
Geminid
@Geminid: And I no sooner type the S-word and it starts snowing. We’re supposed to get 6 to 8 inches in the next 36 hours. The main roads should be ok by Thursday afternoon, but my driveway is a different story.
stinger
@Leto: Thanks! I’ve ordered Braiding Sweetgrass and two others by Kimmimer. They all look fascinating.
Enjoy your class — who knows how long such subjects will be allowed to be taught….
Kay
@Gretchen:
I don’t know what Harris would do re: Palestinians. I think Joe Biden was absolutely terrible so I was pretty sure she’d be better – it’s tough to be worse. I don’t think she had the irrational bias against Palestinians that the Biden team did – both Blinken and Biden. I watched most of Blinken’s press conferences. He could barely force himself to admit they are human, let alone civilian victims. Biden flat out lied about them, and when he was corrected he ignored it and repeated the lies.
I mean, Trump, but is that our measure now? War crimes, but not as obvious or nasty? Once you are at “war crimes” these comparisons stop being valid. They become monstrous.
tobie
@Nukular Biskits: I read somewhere that Jamie Raskin was considering a class action on behalf of the American people against DOGE. Our privacy was violated when DOGE employees hacked Treasury’s payment system. We’ll see if this has legs. Hope so.
Belafon
@Kay: Hamas attacked in October, 2023. How many elections have there been since then?
And I know where this goes: “Hamas attacked because Israel was repressing them.” “But there were no Israeli troops in Gaza.” “But Israel had them blocked all the away round.” “But why attack a concert?” “But why all the bombing?” “Why won’t Netanyahu listen to his own people who want it to stop?” “Why won’t the US stop weapons to Israel to make them stop?” (That one I know the answer to: They have enough that it wouldn’t end yet, and we made Biden irrelevant.)
Wait, let’s pick up that last one. We made Biden irrelevant. By the time it truly became evident that Netanyahu had gone dictator in Israel, Biden had no power of the office. He was beyond lame duck. He was too old, he was sick, he wasn’t doing anything (except negotiating the hostage release). It was going to be on the next person in office.
Kay
@Gretchen:
I have a friend in Ann Arbor, he’s a Muslim physician, Arab American and enough of a Democrat to have read Al Franken’s book, and he told me “I just can’t – it feels like a betrayal”
I’m sympathetic to that. I think it is outrageous and sort of gross to make this “harm reduction” argument when you’re talking about so much harm.
70,000 tons of bombs dropped on 2 million trapped people and you want to lecture them on harm reduction? Not me. I’m not doing that. We left that space sometime in January of 2025.
TBone
@Geminid: ayep (to quote the handyman in Mr. Blanding’s Dream House). We’ve got snow in the forecast every day this week (is the NOAA still operational?) and the cold, gray damp is perfect weather…
For chillblains! Ugh, thankfully I didn’t get any the last few years thanks to Dove Sensitive Skin liquid soap and not having to carry firewood & coal in from out.
Kay
@Belafon:
I don’t defend Hamas. My interest in Israel and Palestine is with the policy of the United States in Israel and Palestine.
I think if the United States blithely disregards the laws of war, treaties and the US code when sending arms to Israel the United States is going to pay for that. They already are. Blinken finally found a war crime. In Africa. It was met with jeers. He, and we, are no longer credible on war crimes.
Belafon
@Nukular Biskits: There could be an argument made for it. But then we get back to the fact that, as even Good Morning America was pointing out, what happens when the Administration ignores the Courts.
Kay
@Belafon:
Ask Leto if US troops are allowed to blow up a hospital in Iraq or Afghanistan if they suspect terrorists are inside.
I mean, come on. You know this. There is no set of circumstances where we can violate these laws WHILE also asserting them when it’s convenient for us! No one buys that! No one should! It’s bullshit. Hamas are horrendous. So are other terrorist groups. Did we suspend the Geneva Conventiions and the Leahy Laws and the US code and start leveling whole cities to get 100 of them?
Sister Golden Bear
Messaged my doctor yesterday about the really high pulse and really high blood pressure I’ve been having since Jan. 20. Her office calls back and tells me to go to urgent care now. Go to urgent care, they do an EKG and they tell me to go the ER for a full workout now. Spent the evening at ER, fortunately no apparent heart attack or stroke, but my pulse was all over the place, so I’ve been at the hospital overnight for observation. Hospitals are the worst place to get sleep — so of course the nurse brings a blindfold and ear plugs this morning. Better late than never….
Stress test scheduled for this afternoon.
Worst of all, NO COFFEE.
Bupalos
@Kay: I’m sympathetic to the corrective perspective you provide here WRT the way the Israeli occupation and control over Palestinian lives operates in our politics and I’m glad you speak up for it. It’s undeniable that the U.S. simply abdicated its moral obligations in failing to draw any lines for Israel as they went mad. And we as Democrats paid a price electorally. Which isn’t to say that there weren’t other prices to be paid electorally if we somehow hadn’t abandoned those obligations and had drawn lines. Higher? Lower? I don’t know.
I do think it’s probably worth noting that American ME policy and strategy essentially did not change under Biden from its long history, and probably could not change. You’d have to be ready and able to formulate a bipartisan consensus to conduct foreign policy and develop strategy, and obviously that’s a problem. This mirrors the way we simply lacked the democratic capacity to actually seek Ukraine’s victory, and could only manage to stand behind the status quo in a kind of rote way. In the Eastern European case we’re countenancing and enabling devastating war crimes from our “enemy,” and in the Middle East committed by our “friend.” The through-line is a kind of passive continuance of past behavior as if we’re on auto pilot. Unfortunately it seems the US is necessarily at best going to be in a “let’s keep doing what we were doing and see what happens” mode.
I’m afraid this drift is mirrored in the Democratic Party itself. We’ve come to the end of something, and are having a hard time seeing that and seeing that we really need a comprehensive direction. I’m not sure the party (if that’s who you mean when you say Democrats) has gone either coherently right or left. It’s a meandering kind of mix that’s pretty hard to describe in simple terms. Republicans have a narrative. It’s increasingly insane, but it’s a story you can tell in a few sentences and allow people to fit themselves in to that story and follow Trump as a protagonist. It frames reality for them and allows their vehicle to drive, even as they head us off a cliff.
We really don’t have that.
Geminid
@Kay: I’ve seen people make the connrction between Trump’s Gaza plan and a willingness to abandon Taiwan. They see the Gaza plan as an expression of a willingness to back more powerful countries at the expense of local populations.
Last I heard, Jordan’s King Abdullah was to visit Washington today and confer with Trump. This meeting was scheduled a while ago and its timing is fortuitous. Trump’s plan was not thought out and maybe Abdullah can explain its many deficiencies to his ignorant counterpart.
I’ll be interested to see what the two leaders have to say to the press afterwards. One problem here is that Trump’s vanity is involved now. That has given this so-called plan a life of its own.
Jordan is a relatively small country, but the Saudis consider its stability a paramount concern and they will back Jordan to the hilt on this question. So will the Emiratis, and those two countries swing a lot of weight with Trump.
They are now the only real counterbalance to Netanyahu, at least with Trump. The EU countries don’t matter in this context.. They matter to Israel though, and I hope the UK, France and Germany coordinate, and very explicitly threaten sanctions if Israel tries to remove Gaza’s population. Trump’s plan has got a lot of Iraelis walking on air and they need to come back to earth.
But the immediate problem now is the continuation of this ceasefire. The implementation of Phase Two has always been a potential failure point, but now Phase One could be breaking down.
TBone
@Sister Golden Bear: I feel ya! Best hopes that your heart is AOK and this is a very temporary situation, quickly conquered.
Hot tea might help? Or hot cocoa? Those help me a little when I want coffee but can’t have it. Just enough to get through the hours between waking up and being able to eat.
Ksmiami
@Kay: they didn’t actually care. It was just a way to feel engaged without actually voting.
schrodingers_cat
@Geminid: Let me try one more time
[email protected]
Can you try right now? If this doesn’t work I will contact one of FPers.
WP is mangling it when I post it as a link.
schrodingers_cat
@UncleEbeneezer: Nope and I have seen no concern about the condition of the released Jewish hostages or the murders and rapes visited on them in all the bleating about human rights. I guess only some people have rights. Don’t remember any condemnation of Hamas either.
The rise of antisemitism on the left is concerning.
Doc Sardonic
@TBone: Unfortunately, having endured many stress tests over the last 20 years, you can’t have tea or cocoa either, both contain caffeine. Any caffeine in your system will botch the stress test and then shit can get really crazy until someone talks cardiology down.
Old School
@Sister Golden Bear: Good luck! I hope everything gets under control soon.
laura
@Sister Golden Bear: Sending you best wishes, and even more so, Wishing I could eradicate the source of you malaise. Take care, Sister Golden Bear, You matter.
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: It works. Thanks.
zhena gogolia
@Sister Golden Bear: Oh, I’ll be thinking of you.
Citizen Alan
@RaflW: Such a pity that he saw no difference between Trump and Harris last summer and told US Catholics to vote their conscience or simply not vote at all.
Glory b
@Kay: There demanding but not setting fires, breaking windows, covering public spaces in red paint, gluing themselves to highways or otherwise making nuisances of themselves.
It’s almost like it’s not so important now that Republicans are in charge.
Either that or just maybe both parties AREN’T the same after all.
Citizen Alan
@Bupalos: I have been telling people for years that GOP opposition to the CFPD means that they literally believe as a matter of first principle that banks, credit card companies, and pay-day lenders should have the absolute right to cheat their own customers.
Glory b
@schrodingers_cat: It is.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see something of a split in the party. Black and Jewish voters are the only ones in the Democratic coalition that voted in the same numbers as they did in previous elections.
Black people also remember that Jewish people were our first and most stalwart supporters during the Civil Rights movement.
Citizen Alan
@Matt McIrvin: At this point, I think the only thing that could save us is some sort of magic vaccine that identifies and treats sociopaths. Our society is incapable of defending itself against a sufficiently large population of people who have absolutely no sense of empathy or community and who place no value on any human life except their own.
RaflW
@Kay: “I think Joe Biden was absolutely terrible so I was pretty sure she’d be better – it’s tough to be worse.”
Pretty sure calling for complete and total ethnic cleansing of Gaza is a lot worse. I get that you’re really angry. But Palestinians are indeed reaping the whirlwind, as you put it, and things are absolutely, materially worse for 10s of millions of people globally because USAID is also being shattered and scrapped.
We can’t ignore how Biden failed us in the Middle East, but we’ve also struggled to have effective policy or outcomes in that region for as long as I can remember (my political memory goes back to the Carter years, and yes the historic agreement but also the assassination of Sadat and the aftermath).
What do you propose that we do, other than the reaping. Because while I’ve had great respect for your long service to politics in Ohio, right now I just see flailing anger and while you are entitled to that, I don’t find it helpful to the crises at hand.
JaneE
Am I the only one who had telephone spam calls start up as soon as Musk took a wrecking ball to the regulatory agencies? Went from a couple a week to 5-10 a day, and started as early as 5 AM. Today has been lighter, so did someone start working again?
Glory b
@Kay: The young ones, like the old ones in the US, don’t care about foreign policy as long as there are no US boots on the ground. An Axios poll of college students (the most likely to support Gaza) showed that they rated the Israel/Palestine issue 13th of 15 issues they considered important ones to consider when voting.
The protesters got an amount of media coverage far out of proportion to the group of young voters as a whole.
Sally
@Citizen Alan: IMO he did see a difference. He basically said that the Dems are assassinating babies in their mothers’ wombs, while the R’s are mean for departing undocumented immigrants. Big difference between being an assassin and being mean
I was disgusted, though not surprised.
Kayla Rudbek
@rikyrah: and you can switch the search engine in Safari from Google to, say, Duck Duck Go