Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

The desire to stay informed is directly at odds with the need to not be constantly enraged.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

You are either for trump or for democracy. Pick one.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

You are here: Home / Economics / Grifters Gonna Grift / Thursday Evening Open Thread: ‘Nobody Voted for Elon Musk’

Thursday Evening Open Thread: ‘Nobody Voted for Elon Musk’

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“I have in my hand 57 cases of individuals who would appear to be either card-carrying members or certainly loyal to the Communist Party …”

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— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec.bsky.social) February 12, 2025 at 2:38 PM

I’m not saying Modi is happy to stick a thumb in Trump’s eye ego… but he sure does look happy here!

Truly wild to see how Trump is playing second fiddle to Elon Musk. Musk is clearly acting as the de-facto president while Trump just fires off social media posts as if he is Musk's assistant.

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— MeidasTouch (@meidastouch.com) February 13, 2025 at 1:39 PM

"America is not a software company. And letting a thin-skinned, Ketamine-fueled, video-game cheating, Nazi apologist billionaire take over the machinery of the United States is not something that anyone voted for."
www.motherjones.com/politics/202…

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— Clara Jeffery (@clarajeffery.bsky.social) February 11, 2025 at 8:02 PM


Remember, when it comes to social media, Sharing is caring:

… Nobody voted for Elon Musk. Nobody.

Indeed, the concept of DOGE was only floated, vaguely, a few weeks before the election. It was met mostly with ridicule—it was named for a meme coin, after all—and that derision did not ebb when it became evident that Musk (and his erstwhile partner, Vivek Ramaswamy) hadn’t the faintest idea how government spending worked. They promised to cut the budget by $2 trillion, an amount that exceeds the government’s total discretionary spending in 2023.

The “waste” on federal grants, subsidies, and loans that Musk decries? Those are the same programs that helped him build Tesla and SpaceX. The federal workers that Musk suspects are woke deep state agents? Most serve either in the military or as nurses and doctors for the Veterans Health Administration; the next biggest cohorts are the workers who administer Social Security payments and the letter carriers who deliver the checks. Cutting jobs like these will result in mass chaos and a political bloodbath that nobody wants—especially vulnerable Republicans.

Elon Musk may have pleasured himself with his ability to slash Twitter’s workforce and turn it into a janky site for fascist fanboys. But America is not a software company. And letting a thin-skinned, Ketamine-fueled, video-game cheating, Nazi apologist billionaire take over the machinery of the United States is not something that anyone voted for. Finally Democrats in Congress are beginning to make this point. But citizens, too, must be full-throated. Because none of us, not a single one of us, voted for Elon Musk.

So much for Elon’s promise yesterday that they’d be completely transparent.

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— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec.bsky.social) February 12, 2025 at 1:45 PM

I understand the response here is "Uh huh sure thing Mr. Orange Crimes man"
But also, it shows a certain amount of recognition that the appearance of corruption remains an actual problem.

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— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) February 13, 2025 at 4:43 PM

the level of corruption unfolding right now will stagger future generations. it will stagger people a month from now.

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— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm.bsky.social) February 11, 2025 at 9:48 PM

Reader Interactions

97Comments

  2. 2.

    Shalimar

    For some bizarre psycho reason, Republicans are not allowed to be disloyal to Trump and no matter how much some dislike him they still say they support him in polls.  No one feels the same loyalty to Musk.  His polling is a cybertruck fire.

  3. 3.

    A Ghost to Most

    The malignant narcissists are unlikely to coexist for long. See Elvis’ “Two Little Hitlers”.

  5. 5.

    Jeffro

    @Shalimar: it’s why the GOP will have a huge post-trumpov problem, once we (please FSM) get post-trumpov

    the stupid, malicious, corrupt, government-wrecking shit that they do and want to keep doing…most Americans don’t want any part of it

  6. 6.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Shalimar: They are loyal to their leaders.  If our side exercised that skill when it mattered we could’ve maybe avoided all of this.

  7. 7.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @schrodingers_cat: Tulsi Gabbard also had an one-on-one w/ Modi (w/ only one staffer by her side), which is kind of weird in terms of protocol. She was not acting as an envoy for Trump, & in any case Modi was already in DC to meet Trump.

    Also in the meeting was the Indian NSA Shri Amit Doval, & one of the  topics of discussion was intelligence sharing & counter-terrorism collaboration. My guess is critics of the Modi regime & Hindutva in the US need to watch their backs for transnational repression & outright physical attack, because USG is no longer looking out for them.

  9. 9.

    different-church-lady

    Sure, they didn’t vote for Musk. But they did vote for chaos and corruption, and that’s what they’re getting.

  10. 10.

    Ken B

    @Jeffro: There’s a lot of folks that think they do; they’ve bought into the Republican bullshit about government workers. Several folks at my job were talking about it today.

    Once they see the reality… we’ll see.

  13. 13.

    different-church-lady

    @Ken B: One wonders how the unemployment numbers are going to look after Trump is done firing the entire federal workforce.

  15. 15.

    Ohio Mom

    I had this thought during Trump’s first term, this defies all my willing suspension of disbelief.

    Even assuming Musk exits, there is still the evil mastermind Vought choreographing Trump.

  17. 17.

    different-church-lady

    I’m of a mind where the correct course of action is for someone to kick Musk in the nuts.

  18. 18.

    oldster

    Following Josh Marshall’s advice, I just wrote a letter to Kathy Hochul, asking her to remove Mayor Eric Adams from office. (I’m a state resident — I don’t live in NYC, but her power-base is out west anyhow).

    As JMM says, Trump has now suspended Adams’ prosecution until the day that Adams does anything that Trump doesn’t like, at which point Trump will put him in jail. Adams is now a bought-and-sold, wholly-owned subsidiary of Trump Corruption Enterprises.

    That means that Adams is no longer working for the people of New York, the people who voted for him. That means that he has got to go.

    If you are a resident of NYS, consider dropping Gov. Hochul a line. As I said to her, it is one way to honor the bravery and integrity of the career prosecutors who resigned rather than following the corrupt orders of Trump.

  20. 20.

    different-church-lady

    @oldster:

    Adams is now a bought-and-sold, wholly-owned subsidiary of Trump Corruption Enterprises.

    And he probably doesn’t mind one bit.

  26. 26.

    Jackie

    @catclub:

    No one feels the same loyalty to Musk.

    Apparently Trump does for buying him the election.

    The FFOTUS has ALWAYS groveled to true millionaires – he knows they truly don’t accept him as one of them – and never will. Musk rubs his wealth in FFOTUS’s face everyday and, I’m sure reminds him 24/7 that if not for his money, FFOTUS wouldn’t be sharing the Resolute desk with him.

  27. 27.

    Ruckus

    I think for the first time in my life – I’m speechless.

    Ok I’m not truly speechless but what can one say about an illegal takeover of a democracy?

    We want our country back?

    We want the perps tarred and feathered and then hung?

    Or 50 yrs with no time off and only bread and water, in total isolation and every dime seized?

  28. 28.

    Starfish (she/her)

    @frosty: Remember, the true monsters of the current political climate are the people who did not want Biden running for President in April of 2023.

  31. 31.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    I’m wondering if my Bible thumping cousin who is in HR in DC will lose her job.  And if it will her effect her Uber conservative views and anti-liberal stance against everything.  I think not.

  32. 32.

    Jay

    @different-church-lady:

    Dolt 47 has a fanatical NAZI SS protecting him.

    Felon Musk has 20 bodyguards, armoured cars and uses up to 4 of his kids as human shields including the nosepicker who told Dolt 47 to shut up, mined his nose buggers and wiped them on the “Resolute Desk”, which now should be taken out and burned.

  34. 34.

    Ruckus

    @different-church-lady:

    The line for that would be long – very, very, very long. Possibly take weeks for everyone to get a boot in. And that’s given that the line would move 24 hrs a day. With bets about how long it would take to render him taught who/what he REALLY is. I’m going with never.

  36. 36.

    Jackie

    @Ruckus:

    think for the first time in my life – I’m speechless.

    I’m not completely speechless, but I am numb. I’ve been numb since 11/6, and am learning there are several degrees of numbness. It’s like a dull ache that just keeps on intensifying day after day.

  37. 37.

    Jay

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    The tricky part is that Modi has used US “Indian” gangsters to cross borders, or strike in the US against other nations Indian Diaspora, and right now, the US is completely useless and untrustworthy in regards to cross border intelligence sharing, or even protecting Indians in the US.

  38. 38.

    RevRick

    @different-church-lady: Especially when they stop making mortgage payments and buying stuff on Amazon. There weren’t that many employees at Lehman Brothers, but boy were the effects of its collapse get ugly.

  41. 41.

    Quinerly

    @frosty:

    They can’t. Same old same old comments polluting almost every thread I read. Mind you, I’m down to 2 threads maximum a day. It’s gotten to be childish and ridiculous. Trollish. I have some more thoughts but will keep to myself. Just not worth it.

    Hope your travels are going well…I think you are wandering around somewhere but not New Mexico as you previously planned. I’m on the road shortly myself….not Death Valley as I had hoped but to Pinos Altos, NM (Silver City area). Cabin in the woods with JoJo las Orejas and meeting a new artist/musician friend I met in Tucson.

    Off this thread. Take care.

  42. 42.

    gene108

    Interesting that more Democrats approve of the FBI and CIA than Republicans. I think it used be the reverse.

  44. 44.

    wjca

    @The Truffle: Musk will go the way of Bannon (I hope).

    Unlike Bannon, Musk will be in a position to fight back.  Unless Trump figures out how to rip off Musk’s wealth.  Which he is probably working on even now (I hope).

  45. 45.

    Lyrebird

    @oldster: If you are a resident of NYS, consider dropping Gov. Hochul a line. As I said to her, it is one way to honor the bravery and integrity of the career prosecutors who resigned rather than following the corrupt orders of Trump.

    Thanks, that’s a good take!  I remain not a huge fan of the Gov., and I am well aware of some areas where she doesn’t give a sht about voters/families, but she is better than Zeldin, and that angle is a good one.

  47. 47.

    Lyrebird

    @TBone:

    Thanks for the PA Gov news, yes I hope so too!

    Thank you also for “you can’t steal, you can’t steal my shine…” the other day.

  48. 48.

    Ruckus

    Kind of interesting that on a blog about politics people want us to stop discussing how shitty our democracy is at this moment in time and how risky it is that someone with a lot of money is trying to destroy it for his own advantage.

    I may have seen it all.

  50. 50.

    zhena gogolia

    @RevRick: Starfish is being exquisitely sarcastic at the expense of people who think we made a big mistake in June-July 2024. We’re not entitled to express that opinion.

  51. 51.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Hate to disrupt some good dooming, but there are some hopeful signs for trans folks, courtesy of Erin Reed:

    Corewell, Largest Michigan Provider, Resumes Trans Youth Care Despite Illegal Trump EO

    The decision to reinstate care is huge for Michigan transgender patients. The hospital system is the largest in the state, employing over 60,000 people….

    The decision comes after President Donald Trump’s executive order attempting to ban care for those under the age of 19* years of age. Despite the order lacking a clear enforcement mechanism beyond funding threats and conflicting with established law in many states where these hospitals operate, several hospitals across the United States used it as justification to stop providing gender affirming care for transgender youth. This in turn has led to mass protests at hospitals such as UVA, Children’s National, and NYU-Langone.

    Local LGBTQ+ organizations in Michigan were outspoken against Corewell Health’s decision to pause care, including Equality Michigan.

    *Yes 19 is correct. One of the more insidious things about Trump’s EO is that it includes trans people who’d otherwise be considered legal adults. Speculation is that it’s an attempt to see if the courts would go along with blocking trans healthcare for adults and if successful, a ban on trans healthcare for all adults would follow.

    In Major Win For Trans Students, New Jersey Court Rules Against Forced Outing Policies

    New Jersey Superior Court’s Appellate Division issued two unanimous rulings blocking forced outing policies in school districts… mandating the disclosure of a student’s transgender status to their parents. The policies varied in scope—some required notification only if a student formally changed their gender identity at school, while others mandated disclosure if a student merely mentioned being transgender in counseling sessions. Shortly after the policies were enacted, they were challenged in court and met with preliminary injunctions, preventing their enforcement. The appellate court upheld these injunctions yesterday.

  53. 53.

    TBone

    Even though I saw the executioner and the fire, I could not say anything but what I have said.

    – Joan of Arc

  54. 54.

    Starfish (she/her)

    @RevRick: That was sarcasm. I am one of the true monsters of the current political climate because I was insufficiently enthusiastic about Biden running for a second term.

  56. 56.

    bbleh

    @RevRick: yup.  He’s disposable, a cut-out, a cat’s-paw.

    This is not to say that I think the Orange Guy’s motives are unalloyed or that his thinking is clear, but I’m pretty sure that this, in combination with all Elmo’s bribery and public sucking of … toes (eg in that weird Oval appearance), is more than enough to delay the much-hoped-for falling-out.

    (Personally I think the Time cover is a much more likely flashpoint.)

    Anyhoo, organize, and stay ready to dump your stock funds.

  57. 57.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Jeffro:

    the stupid, malicious, corrupt, government-wrecking shit that they do and want to keep doing…most Americans don’t want any part of it

    I think most Americans actually want the government to get wrecked until it hits them or someone they know, and then they assume that person is an exception–somehow the Cossacks got a good one and if only the Czar knew.

  59. 59.

    Sister Golden Bear

    OTOH, little-noticed policies announced Monday by the Department of Defense Education Activity (DoDEA)—the agency responsible for overseeing the education of service members’ children—to ban “bender ideology” material, enact book bans and don’t say gay policies will impact military K-12 schools, serving over 67,000 students in the United States and abroad.

    The DoDEA memo reflects [the administration’s anti-DEI] agenda, stating that it has initiated a review of library books across more than 100 school systems to screen for content related to “gender ideology or discriminatory equity ideology topics.”

    This memo, which was quietly republished on the DoDEA website, also details the agency’s intent to comply with prohibitions on recognizing or celebrating “cultural awareness months.”…

    No specific details were provided in the memo regarding which materials would be removed from schools. However, Stars and Stripes reported that eight materials have already been identified for removal, including A Nation of Immigrants and Becoming Nicole, a biography of Nicole Maines detailing her life as a transgender woman. A biography of Union soldier Albert Cashier, whom many historians believe was a transgender man, has also been banned. Additionally, Stars and Stripes reported that student clubs focused on LGBTQ+ pride and women in STEM have been disbanded. Regional staff in each school district have been tasked with further identifying books on library shelves for “compliance,” with even teachers’ personal classroom collections subject to review. The deadline for this review has been set for February 18.

    Book Riot additionally reports that a Black History Month unit will be removed, along with fifth-grade lessons on immigration and a book on comprehensive health skills.

  60. 60.

    Starfish (she/her)

    @zhena gogolia: Well, you are entitled to the opinion, but it kinda seems whiny and pretty irrelevant at this point.

    The purity testing for “the right kind of Democrats” to put on a team while we are all watching the government be rapidly disassembled under President Musk seems like a lack of focus on the correct problems.

  61. 61.

    gene108

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    They are loyal to their leaders. If our side exercised that skill when it mattered we could’ve maybe avoided all of this.

    Republican politicians are loyal to their leaders, as long as their leaders are popular with Republican voters.

    George W. Bush got a lot of deference when he was riding high after 9/11 and the run up to Iraq. Afterwards, when his failures dragged down his popularity Republicans wouldn’t give him the time of day and blocked his immigration reform proposal.

    Ron DeSantis got everything he wanted through the state legislature, when he looked like a possible future president. Now that his luster’s worn off, there’s some pushback from the legislature.

    Donald Trump, for reasons I cannot explain, never lost the support of Republican voters. He is extremely popular with Republican voters.

    I’m not sure there’s any Democrat who has ever had that level of unconditional support by Democratic voters.

  62. 62.

    Spanky

    If JD Vance were smart – no no, hear me out – if JD Vance were smart he’d be talking to all the new Cabinet members explaining how their jobs were vaporizing while they watched, and explain to them the benefits of exercising the 25th Amendment.

  66. 66.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Quinerly: There’s some dead horses here being flogged that have been resurrected, then flogged again until they died again, then resurrected yet again, then flogged again until they died yet again — so many times that the necromancers are beyond exhausted

    I dunno, maybe it’s just me, but I’d prefer to focus on the (potentially literal) extinction level threat currently aimed at me.

  67. 67.

    Spanky

    Fascinating how the troll seeks to disrupt the thread with a well worn rift. And by “fascinating” I mean tiresome.

  69. 69.

    Ruckus

    @RevRick:

    My take is that some are telling the rest of us to shut up about the worst thing that’s happened to OUR government in my lifetime – and I’m an OLD fart.

    On a blog about our country’s politics.

    Somehow seems wrong  not in our best interest  Asinine. Took three tries, got it.

  70. 70.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Spanky: I keep having to explain this, but the 25th Amendment’s disability provision does not work as a way of keeping an uncooperative President out of office–after a short period he can simply say he’s fit to serve, and unless a supermajority of both Houses of Congress votes to keep him out, he resumes the powers of the Presidency. It’s deliberately more difficult than securing an impeachment conviction. It’s not intended as a means for a Cabinet coup; it’s for situations where, say, the President is in a coma.

  71. 71.

    bbleh

    @Spanky: Ok, running with that, Vance somehow convinces them it’s in their interests to dump the Orange Guy, and … then what?  Vance becomes nominal President but … (1) he has no political base of his own of any significance and (2) he’s the guy who stabbed the God-King in the back.  These things render him not just powerless but besieged — a defenseless child on the throne, surrounded by angry hordes with weapons unsheathed.

    The irony is, said Cabinet members might actually see potential advantage in this situation.  Having been confirmed, they’re in charge of huge chunks of the government, and with JD in the Oval, alone in the floodlights, they’d be free to do … whatever.  They could even claim the Mandate of the Fallen King in the process!

    But I dunno.  They say every Senator sees a President in the mirror, but I can see where ol’ JD, much as I despise him, might also see this very scenario unfolding, and think “naaah, not gonna do it, just wait ’til he croaks.”

  72. 72.

    RevRick

    @Starfish (she/her):

    @zhena gogolia: Ah, thank you for the clarification. I had given thousands of dollars to the Biden reelection campaign, but in retrospect I wish he had resigned on January 21, 2023 and handed the keys over to VP Harris. What he accomplished in his first two years is magnificent, but when the Republicans captured the House, he became a meme punching bag. Harris would have had time to put her stamp on the Presidency and would have run as the incumbent, which is usually worth a couple of points, enough for her to capture the Blue Wall states.
    Alas, counterfactuals seldom play out as desired.

  73. 73.

    Bill Arnold

    @Matt McIrvin:

    the 25th Amendment’s disability provision

    There is always the Section 1 provision (removal, death, or resignation)
    I am certain that many in a position to pull it off are already tempted.
    Side effect would be potential (likely?) Thiel ascent and Musk descent, in power.

  75. 75.

    gene108

    @different-church-lady:

    One wonders how the unemployment numbers are going to look after Trump is done firing the entire federal workforce.

    Republicans voters will cheer this development. After the 2010 election, in 2011 and 2012, Republican state governments slashed taxes and laid off a bunch of state and local employees.

    I remember seeing something somewhere during the Obama administration that showed, in 2012, for every private sector job created a state or local public sector job was lost, keeping the unemployment rate stubbornly high.

  78. 78.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @bbleh: They say every Senator sees a President in the mirror, but I can see where ol’ JD, much as I despise him, might also see this very scenario unfolding, and think “naaah, not gonna do it, just wait ’til he croaks.”

    I joked once about advising Trump to stay away from staircases if Vance is behind him. Vance is a sick person. I draw that conclusion from the report of his podcast interview where he bragged about telling his Pokemon-loving son to “shut the hell up.” To me, being proud of that, being willing to tell the story on the record, is all you need to know about him.

  80. 80.

    Geminid

    @Spanky: I think Vance is smart enough to let those cabinet members come to him, when the time is right. Trump picked most of them first and foremost for their personal loyalty. If Vance makes any kind move like you suggest, they’ll snitch him out and then Trump will freeze him out.

    Vance is in an anamolous postion. He’s the the only one of Trump’s subordinates who Trump can’t fire. But Trump can still make or break Vance politically. I think there is a good chance Trump won’t finish his term, in which case J.D. Vance will be President soon enough for Vance’s purposes.

    But he won’t win election in 2028 if Trump turns on him. So it’s in Vances interests and serves his ambitions for him to play the loyal Lieutenant. I think it also fits his personality.

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    @Matt McIrvin: I think Trump wouldn’t have been elected a second time if Jerome Powell and the Fed hadn’t mishandled inflation in 2022. New Deal Democrat thinks so too and unlike me, he actually knows something about economics.

  83. 83.

    bbleh

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: and ESPECIALLY since the Orange Guy said PUBLICLY “naaah, he’s just a placeholder, not an heir.”

    I just don’t think Vance would move against him in any attributable way, because he’s got Vance by the, ah, short-and-curlies.

    But yeah, accidents, the Lord calling his Chosen One home, well, we can only be thankful for the time we had with him …

  84. 84.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Geminid: Fed handling inflation better probably could have turned the 2024 elections from a narrow loss to a narrow win. However, to place the reactionaries at a more sustained disadvantage required some fundamental changes to the US political economy, or we will just be facing the reactionary counterrevolution in 2028, & w/ Biden/Harris’ hands tied in the 2nd term due to R-induced gridlock in Congress.

  86. 86.

    Glory b

    @Starfish (she/her): AND we should prostrate ourselves before the historically most fickle group of voters because why?

    And part of the reason they didn’t like Biden was because so many of them are Republicans!

  87. 87.

    Marc

    @RevRick: The Democratic Party was still fairly racist during FDR’s presidency.  The Blacks who could vote back then were still mostly Republican.  Eleanor was a lot more popular than FDR, as much of the civil rights progress during WWII appeared to be due to her efforts.

  88. 88.

    Geminid

    @YY_Sima Qian: I think the economy would have carried Democrats to victory in 2028. That and the radicalism of the opposition party. The Infrastructure, CHIPS and IRA set the table for a strong economy through this decade. There would have been an Infrastructure 2.0 bill passed in 2027 that would build on the first. But we’ll never know how much impact those investments would have on long-term economic growth because Trump is wrecking the economy.

    I think the strength of the reactionary forces peaked last year, and would have diminished afterwards if Trump hadn’t pulled this election out. And without getting into the exceptional circumstances of last year’s Democratic effort, we would have been in a more advantageous position in 2028. I think we still will be, and that the Republicans will have steal that election to win it.

  90. 90.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Geminid: I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. You are assuming even a narrow Biden or Harris win would have given the Ds the Congressional majorities to push through a meaningful part of their agenda.

    All of Biden’s efforts look great in nominal USD terms, as are their impacts, but far less so in real terms. Infrastructure spending was largely wiped out by inflation in infrastructure construction costs, so that they actually declined in real terms. CHIPS Act & the IRA pumped a lot of money into advanced manufacturing, but did not address constraints in human capital or construction costs (costs of building factories in the US far outstrip that in Japan, South Korea & Taiwan, let alone the PRC & SE Asia), while limiting access to low cost inputs & capital equipment from the PRC on natsec grounds. The net effect is more likely to have been rapid rise in the wages the relatively few white collar engineering/scientist/management workers, as well as price inflation of the goods produced, & not a huge increase in the qty. of physical goods produced (& thus their accessibility). The IRA & the CHIPS Act are mere down payments toward revitalization of manufacturing in the US, since the US no longer has the breadth & depth of technological ecosystems that it once enjoyed & need to be rebuilt.

    All of that also do little for the much larger service sector labor that lead far more precarious lives.

    Unless the US economy becomes fundamentally less financialized, more money pumped in will disproportionally result in inflation of asset, commodities & goods prices, & the top tier human capital will continue to be drawn to where the money lie – finance (including VC) & software Big Tech. Ultimately, development of the real economy in the US is constrained by perverse incentives, human capital, & misallocation of the human capital that does exist due to perverse incentives.

  91. 91.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Spanky:  Vance being smart is questionable. I mean this is a guy who was accused having sex with a couch and people believed it.

    Also, the smart play would be to do that when both Trump mental decline is visible to the MAGA and they are feeling the pain from his idiot policies.

    (Edit, I see Gemind said it better than me at 80)

  93. 93.

    Matt McIrvin

    @YY_Sima Qian: All this analysis makes sense but I’m trying to square it with what Kay says about the situation on the ground in Ohio–manufacturing employment actually chugging along quite well there, but nobody acknowledging it. Maybe it’s just that consumer price inflation wiped out any hedonic gains from that.

  94. 94.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Marc: What you say is true but I recall that Black voters switching to the Democratic Party actually started during the Roosevelt years. And I’ve always wondered why that was given how little they were getting out of it. Eleanor may have been a contributing element, economic self-interest another. But it was ahead of Truman actually moving the needle on civil rights.

    I do get the impression that there was a lot of geographic variation in the party’s behavior–the Northeastern Democrats always had a more diverse immigrant power base and saw Black voters as just another “ethnic” bloc to get.

  96. 96.

    AM in NC

    @Ken B: They’ll be the first bitching and blaming Democrats when they can’t get ANY appointments at the VA; their tax refunds are late; their mom got sick from drinking tainted milk; and their kid’s Exceptional Children funds are gone, and they’re no longer allowed at school.

    Bet on it.

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