Jeffries knows the problem but won’t discuss solutions:
House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) said Thursday that the Trump administration is moving to drop the criminal charges against New York City Mayor Eric Adams in order to exercise control over the embattled politician.
“What is clear is that the White House made a decision to dismiss the criminal charges pending against Mayor Adams without prejudice,” Jeffries told reporters in the Capitol.
“Translation: It is the intention of the Trump administration to keep the current mayor on a short leash.”
[…]Jeffries on Thursday said Adams’s standing among Democrats will hinge not on the Justice Department’s overtures on his behalf, but on what the mayor does in response.
“How the mayor responds to the White House’s intentions is going to determine a lot about the political future of the current mayor of the city of New York,” Jeffries said.
Well, part of that response came today. Adams and Border Czar Tom Homan appeared on Fox and Friends talking about their agreement to let federal immigration officials into Rikers Island. Homan said if Adams didn’t come through, he’d be back in NYC. Homan also called out Gov. Kathy Hochul as an “embarrassment”.
Yesterday the news came out that young Voldemort here (Emil Bove, ~42 years old, but evil ages you) instructed a SDNY staff member to stop taking notes and destroy those notes after the meeting where the quid pro quo between Adams and the Trump DoJ was negotiated. We know this because former Scalia clerk and acting US Attorney Danielle Sassoon told us in her resignation letter. Currently, the charges against Adams still stand, because the Trump DoJ can’t find anyone to fire him — they’re all resigning instead. This includes “conservatives” because, unlike Florida (sorry Betty), New York and DC’s bar will disbar people who blatantly subvert the rule of law.
Now, the downstate political machine is meeting to decide Adams’ fate:
Between now and the weekend, Sharpton and the leaders, including Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, Rep. Gregory Meeks, State Sen. Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins, Assembly Speaker Carl Heastie and Attorney General Letitia James, along with clergy leaders from the city, will weigh their options concerning the mayor, including possibly calling on him to resign.
In case it’s not clear, that’s pretty much every powerful Democrat in the city, minus AOC and Schumer. These people will then instruct Kathy Hochul on whether to dismiss Adams or not. Sharpton is a long-time supporter of Adams, by the way.
Hochul, who has done some admirable things, such as rejecting extradition to Louisiana for doctors who do mail-order abortion drug prescriptions, is beholden to the downstate machine because she’s unpopular (for a Democrat), and from the wrong part of the state (Buffalo, not NYC).
The machine has two concerns: removing Adams before March 26 will spark a special election that Cuomo might win, and Jumaane Williams will become mayor for roughly 80 days because he’s next in succession. Otherwise, there will be a primary in June and a general election in November. All these elections are ranked choice voting.
Williams is not part of the downstate machine (nor is AOC, who’s already called for Hochul to remove Adams). Williams is the Public Advocate and he beat Hochul in the city when she ran in the primary for Lt. Governor in 2018 (she won overall, but it was tight). He’s far to the left of Hochul.
Obviously, having Williams as Mayor is far, far better than Adams. And, whether the race is in May or in November, Cuomo is going to be a well-financed, hard-to-beat candidate (sadly). But the sclerotic, machine-driven, election-losing Democratic Party establishment in New York is still grinding towards a decision. They are afraid of Cuomo and they can’t abide Williams, and, frankly, I don’t know how much they care about Adams still being around.
The right thing to do here is to fire Adams. But there’s a group of people in charge that often let political considerations stop them from doing the right thing, when local politics are involved.
Baud
I don’t know NY politics, but I thought Cuomo was considered part of the machine.
Kay
Can’t be the anti corruption party without taking a position on corruption.
Not clear on what more they need – the Federalist Society prosecutors handed it to them in a silver platter and lost their jobs for doing so.
Captain C
He’s 10+ years younger than me and looks 10+ years older. He looks like a ~42 year old from the ’60s or ’70s who’s been heavily into booze, cigarettes (and/or cigars), and anger since he was 18 or so.
Kay
The quid pro quo is another Eric Adams crime. The mayor of NYC is still committing crimes, post indictment.
Geminid
I see that besides Rep. Ocasio-Cortez, New York City Reps. Velasquez, Clarke, Nadler, and Goldman were left out of that meeting as well
Ed. But Meeks and Jeffries seem to swing more weight than those five.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Geminid: I wrote “powerful” Democrat.
Professor Bigfoot
“The downstate machine,” then he names a bunch of Black Democrats.
MM is seldom this blatant. Kudos.
Betty Cracker
The Sharpton group frames it as Trump holding Adams “hostage,” as if Adams were an innocent victim. Bullshit. Adams is a fucking crook who zealously courted fellow crook Trump to stay out of jail.
Geminid
@@mistermix.bsky.social: Is Rep. Ocasio-Cortez especially powerful in New York City or State politics? I know she has a devoted national following, but I never heard she had a lot of clout within City Democratic politics.
ArchTeryx
I’ve been a resident of NYS for 15 years, but upstate, not The City (as we call it). Everyone here knows The City isn’t run by the Mayor. Its run by the NYPD. Adams is just the right-wing figurehead they installed. He’s a crook, but fits perfectly with the NYPD, which is the state’s largest street gang. And NYC residents just love them some right wing mayors, and are increasingly fascist-curious at the state level.
The first Republican that gets in as governor, I expect to lose everything as a state worker. I mean EVERYTHING. He’ll destroy the state government just as Trump is destroying the national one. Thermostasis is awful close to bringing us to that point, and frankly I hope I retire before it happens. That’s what I worry about, not Eric Adams’ antics. He’s a crook and an asshole, but even Hochul, Blue Dog as she is, has bigger fish to fry than that asshole.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
It’s INSANE. Adams engaged in a deal to avoid prosecution in return for violating NYC law. This isn’t a close call. The prosecutor lost her job to bring it to them! Footnote 1 of her letter? Its a felony. He’s not just a past crook – he is actively committing crimes.
But for some reason All Sharpton should decide?
MazeDancer
Adams and Homan on Fox this morning.
As repulsive as you imagined.
ArchTeryx
@Kay: Al Sharpton has been a gadfly pretty much forever. His antics aren’t unlike Kyrsten Sinemas’. “LOOK AT MEEEEE!” is all he knows how to do.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
I was ambivalent toward dumping Adams when he was just charged but not convicted because I think removing an elected official is a really big deal and not to be done simply for appearances.
But now that he’s been compromised by Trump, and there’s no court of law that can adjudicate that quid pro quo, I’m leaning towards his removal.
Not that my opinion matters to anyone making the decision.
Scott P.
I’ll repeat my call from yesterday for BJ to sponsor some public act of gratitude to the attorneys who resigned rather than aid and abet open political corruption.
We ought to be able to raise enough to do something meaningful. Maybe physical gifts, maybe a public message in the NYT or Washington Post.
Kay
@ArchTeryx:
Adams fooled a lot of people. He punched Left, and that was enough. He owned the Leftists! Victory!
Nate Silver and the rest of the Right leaning male pundits all promoted him. They predicted he would be President.
I feel sorry for the next NYC mayor. Adams has multiplied police overtime pay ten fold. They’re all making 200k a year now with phony overtime. They’re going to be impossible to control. They may grab the entire NYC budget.
scav
So it’t not exactly defund the police if you gut all regulations impacting corporations, the wealthy and the connected. The enforcers of such aren’t really law enforcement once there are no laws and it’s not like they wear uniforms, crack heads, forget to wear functional cameras and keep the mere public in line one airway at a time.
Kay
@Scott P.:
I think it’s a good idea. It was brave and that’s rare these days.
Geminid
@Scott P.: Or maybe letters to editors in lacal and state newspapers. Those might get as much or more readership than an ad.
bbleh
Lots of crunchy info there — cool. And seems pretty clear that Hochul, whatever her actual position in the pecking order, is counting on what apparently now is a well-publicized meeting of other big-name Dems to give her cover for her eventual decision.
Personally, whatever other fish I might have to fry, I’d wanna ditch him just to slap back publicly — and from what I can tell at very little cost — at the Orange Guy. But I am spiteful.
@mistermix.bsky.social
@Geminid: She doesn’t have a lot of power now in NYC but she is more powerful than say Richie Torres.
At the gym so on phone so typos and can’t really expound too much.
Kay
Did Adams have any male competitors or was this yet another American decision to choose any man, no matter how much he sucks, over any woman, no matter how good she is?
Backwards, rigidly conventional country.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Professor Bigfoot: It’s like Balloon Juice “doesn’t see race”!
JML
NYC politics are kind of wild. One of the things we see is the real downside to ranked choice voting like this where republicans run as democrats which lets someone like Adams get through initially and then we find out how much more of a conservadem he really is after taking office. There’s also a very strong strain of people (and this crosses all kinds of demographics) who vote for “public safety” in terms of cracks downs that they presume won’t sweep them into its net. (and for most it doesn’t) They don’t give two sh!ts about civil liberties and want someone else to keep the unhoused out of their way, beat up the drug dealers and users that might cross their paths and do the stuff that makes people feel safer rather actually making them safer.
there’s also so many entrenched interests that have more functional power than the mayor! It’s very hard to really make impactful change absent a crisis, i think. the NYPD is 100% one of the worst, but there are so many people who prefer not to believe that their cops might be corrupt AF.
I think Hochul won’t fire Adams in the end because I think she’s a coward who cares more about not risking her own position than doing the right thing. She knows he needs to go, she knows what the right thing is, and she’s too weak to do it. JMO
oldster
Calling all New York State residents:
You can write to your Governor, even if you don’t live in the City, and ask her to remove Adams. I did it yesterday.
Reaching out lets her know where public opinion is, and puts pressure on the NYS Democrats not to let this slide.
Granted, Hochul and the rest will want to do it carefully, and ideally they’ll want to kneecap Cuomo before he gets a chance to worm his way back into power.
But however they remove Adams, Adams should be removed. We cannot have a Trump puppet in that position.
Old School
@Kay:
Andrew Yang was the second highest Democratic male vote getter.
(And Curtis Silwa for the Republicans.)
Matt
Were the leaders of the local Pokemon and D&D clubs unavailable? Why do we care what the fanclubs of imaginary friends think?
Glory b
@Professor Bigfoot: I’m telling you, man…
sixthdoctor
It’s gotten crazier.
Geminid
@oldster: I’m not sure why these Democrats would want to “kneecap” Cuomo. You could be projecting your own animus towards Cuomo onto them.
And Cuomo’s not going to “worm” his way back into power. If he becomes Mayor, it will through running in and winning the Democratic primary and the general election. That will the voters’ choice.
Glory b
@Matt: Tell us you know nothing about black/civil rights history without telling us you know nothing about black/civil rights history…
Old School
Captain C
@sixthdoctor: If this was happening under a Democratic administration the FTFNYT would have nothing else on the front page.
eclare
This is not snark, for those of us nowhere near NYC, why does this matter?
Glory b
@ArchTeryx: Youtreach wrong about that.
Sharpton has said MANY TIMES that he doesn’t insert himself into issues, he doesn’t go anywhere that he’s not invited.
Grieving families, communities, etc, call on him because he gets their issues media attention.
Old School
@eclare:
For the same reason we know about congestion pricing, there is a lot of media located there.
Kay
@sixthdoctor:
I don’t think they can do it. The first prosecutor to resign was a witness to the crime and she put her account in writing. No one has denied her account. They won’t be permitted to say “I was following orders”. They have their own ethical code that comes first.
Trump broke the law, his AG broke the law and Adams broke the law. They can’t become part of that.
Ruckus
Jeffries won’t discuss it because that is not what he is supposed to do, at least at this point in the process.
The situation has to run it’s course properly.
Think about musk and what he’s doing. He’s pushing all the limits (and PAST) because he has MONEY and because he seems to think (such as that is) that makes him more powerful than anyone else. He gets his way because in his mind he can buy and sell anyone. I’d bet his entire concept of everything is that he can buy and sell anyone. And everyone. But of course his bank account is high, his power is NOT. Now of course there are people that NORMALLY couldn’t be bought, but musk likely thinks he can spend what to him is pocket change and to most everyone else is the entire bank. Do not forget that he comes from a country where white power with money can/could buy any and every thing and humans, because most people do not have anywhere near his level. Oh wait, that applies here as well. After all it is humanity and a lot of money is nicer than a lot less. And to musk, what is a hell of a lot to others is pocket change.
There is a valid reason that in this country a lot of money pays more tax than a more normal level.
Geminid
@Kay: I think Kathy Garcia would have beaten Adams in a head-to-head matchup. There would have been one in a runoff under NYC’s former system because Adams 40% in the first round. A New Yorker commented yesterday that the more people saw of Adams the less they liked him.
But the City had switched to Ranked-choice choice voting; the so-called “instant runoff.” I think Garcia came up ~8,000 votes short when all the rankings were tabulated.
trollhattan
How is it the governor has the authority to can a mayor? Does any other state give the governor this power?
New Deal democrat
I think people need to consider what the likely moves from the T——p crime organization would be to a dismissal of Adams by the governor. Because he absolutely will retaliate and escalate.
Mind you, I’m not sure how many or how effective levers he might have, but he will try to use them.
if it were me, I would try to find the most likely path towards Adams losing in the primary (if he runs as a D), or in the general (if he runs as a MAGAt).
Kay
@eclare:
I think it’s matters because it’s national corruption that is in the national news. Adams’ corrupt deal was with the President. It’s blatant enough that prosecutors literally can’t sign off on it without implicating themselves.
If he remains mayor it’s Democrats saying that none of that matters – he just proceeds to an election.
Doug R
@Betty Cracker:
This could be framing to insulate Hochul from any “racist” accusations-easy to flip from “victim” to “compromised”
Lord Fartdaddy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Emil Bove is like Javier Bardem and Herbert Lom had a baby.
Kay
@Geminid:
Good. The US has very few women leaders. We’re well behind other countries, including much less wealthy countries who don’t brag about how great they are.
If you’re an ambitious American girl the US may not be the best bet for you. Too conventional.
rikyrah
Trump and Musk Are Going to War Against Military Veterans
The president’s new executive order gives Musk and DOGE carte blanche and sets limits on hiring veterans and transitioning active duty military personnel
By Michael Embrich
February 13, 2025
<blockquote>Donald Trump’s new executive order, titled “Implementing the President’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) Workforce Optimization Initiative,” outlines exactly how Trump and Elon Musk plan to dismantle the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and strip transitioning military veterans and their families overseas of the generous federal hiring incentives they rely on.
This executive order seeks to impose severe hiring restrictions and would disproportionately harm veterans, who make up one-third of the federal workforce. Requiring agencies to hire only one new employee for every four who leave will drastically reduce VA staffing levels. At a time when the veteran population is aging and the VA’s mission has expanded under Joe Biden, this policy will lead to massive delays and outright denials in health care, benefits processing, and disability claims — the essential services veterans depend on to survive.
The order also forces agencies to implement immediate reductions in force, prioritizing cuts to positions not explicitly mandated by law. In practice, this means slashing administrative staff, veteran outreach programs, and transition assistance. Many of these programs help veterans adjust to civilian life, with federal employment serving as a stable career path for thousands. Active-duty military members stationed overseas also rely on these programs for critical support, from child care to helping their spouses secure employment in foreign countries where they may lack language skills or legal work status.
What’s worse, this executive order makes hiring at VA more bureaucratic and politicized. Each new hire must be approved by a DOGE “team lead,” creating unnecessary hurdles in filling critical positions. As we have learned over the past few weeks, these “team leads” can be 19-year-old kids who go by names like “bigballs,” or 25-year-old men who have recently gone on racist tirades about how we should “Normalize Indian Hate.”
The VA is already grappling with severe workforce shortages, particularly in medical and benefits processing roles. This new hiring bottleneck guarantees growing backlogs, delayed care, and increased suffering for veterans. But that may be the goal. If Musk and DOGE aim to dismantle the government, they achieve two objectives at once — denying care to veterans while making the VA so dysfunctional that veterans either forgo medical treatment or are forced into the private sector.
For years, politicians have promised to fix the VA and take care of veterans. But this Trump executive order does the opposite — it throws veterans under the bus and a few other fast moving objects. First, by cutting veteran federal workers who make up a huge part of the workforce; second, by slashing the very services those same veterans need; third, by denying our military service members and their families adequate support overseas and here at home; and finally, doing anything but making sure veterans have a stable place and support system to build a life post-service. </blockquote>
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/trump-musk-military-veterans-war-doge-1235266086/
Absolutely ridiculous.
Baud
@Old School:
Yeah, I can’t believe that became a national issue.
Baud
I don’t want Adams to get off, but if there is a dismissal, the judge should insist that it be with prejudice. Trump shouldn’t be allowed to hold this over Adams’s head.
Geminid
@Kay: You ought to watch former Rep. Abigail Spanberger run for Virginia Governor this year. That a ruthless woman!
Captain C
@rikyrah: Yeah, that’ll end well.
Baud
@rikyrah:
“He’s not hurting the people he should be hurting.”
Soprano2
@Kay: Yes, to me it’s clear that Hochul should remove him so that the federal government isn’t running New York City.
Ruckus
@ArchTeryx:
Take it from this old fart, you retire you live off of what you saved and any income that you can, such as SS, pension, bank account….
Now if you made a lot while of working age you might be set to live rather comfortably for the rest of your days, without a care. If you are a normal citizen that had a job and normal income then all the rest of that, SS – bank account(s) – pension are important, especially if you retire early. Retiring late does help with that, but when your retirement income is more limited than highly excessive you will worry when people like musk and shitforbrains are attempting to screw you (and everyone else). And that is most of us. Because most of us do not have bank accounts with 7-8 or more figures on the bottom line.
PJ
The headline for the article that MisterMix linked to is:
Black political leaders in NYC are what MisterMix terms “the downstate machine”. (AOC and Schumer, along with many other prominent NYC politicians, were not included not because they are not powerful, but because they are not Black.)
I am sure that Hochul and other politicians have both Cuomo and Jumaane Williams on their minds while they decide what to do about Adams. But I am guessing that one of the biggest issues, if not the biggest, is that Erik Adams is only the second Black mayor of NYC, and to have a white Governor remove the duly elected Mayor of New York City when he has not been convicted of any crimes is a big step that Black voters will remember. Hochul would be risking a lot to remove Adams if this move does not have the support of local Black politicians.
Yesterday’s news about the quid pro quo, and Adams’ and Homan’s appearance on TV to confirm it, is powerful evidence that Adams needs to go, and I am hopeful that local politicians will support the move, regardless of the effect on the primaries and the election. But, as someone above noted, I fear that some commenters and posters here “do not see race” where, I am guessing, Black people do.
John S.
For those seemingly unfamiliar with the geography of New York:
“Downstate” refers to NYC and the surrounding areas.
”Upstate” refers to pretty much anything that is North or Northwest of NYC.
For those of you undeterred by the definition of words or their usage, please continue assigning racist intent to Mistermix.
prostratedragon
Meanwhile, Divan is wowing them at the security conference in Europe. Ulrike Franke 🧵:
PJ
@John S.: I have lived in NYC for more than 20 years. I have never heard “downstate” used to mean “Black”, but that is how MisterMix used it here. Perhaps that is an “upstate” usage.
trollhattan
@trollhattan:
Anybody?
ArchTeryx
@Ruckus: Most of my working life was stolen from me by academia. That’s why I unloaded my entire “BURN, YOU MOTHERFUCKERS, BURN” rant when Musk terminated the entire NIH grant system. As much as I feel sorry for the grad students and postdocs caught in the maelstrom, the faculty brought it on themselves. Those faces deserved to get eaten by leopards. But that’s a whole other story.
My savings, outside of a small legal settlement for an employer destroying my hands, is zilch. Repeated stock market crashes and a gypsy scholar lifestyle saw to that. I will never be caught up to a tiny fraction of what’s needed for an independent retirement. My pension and SS is *ALL* I have.
Matt McIrvin
@eclare: This is a mechanism for Donald Trump effectively taking control of blue-state governments. I have too much of a paranoid thriller-movie mind about these things and tend to imagine the Fraternal Order of Police shooting the governor or something, but that’s not how it really works these days. You can eventually find some lever for everyone in power to be personally beholden to him.
jonas
Hochul got cold feet implementing a $15 congestion fee in NYC. I’d be shocked if she actually screws up the courage to dump Adams.
The thing is, I’m not sure there would be a huge political downside to firing the mayor — he’s obviously corrupt AF, he doesn’t have some huge constituency in The Machine that will blow everything up if he’s punished like this. He’s technically a Democrat and they already hate Hochul with the heat of a thousand burning suns, so how up in arms are Republicans going to be? (Possibly a lot now that their brand consists mostly of finding novel and more brazen ways to defend crime and public corruption, but who knows).
Leto
That sight you see is potentially the last of the goodwill we had with Europe going up in flames:
NBC News – Vance berates European leaders as tensions with close allies burst into the open
🔥🔥🔥 there’s a good but more at the article.
Geminid
@New Deal democrat: Adams has no path to reelection. An Emerson poll taken last May showed about twice as many New Yorkers disapprove of him as approved.
That was before Adams was indicted for “Grand Theft Ottoman,” as a New York Post headline writer punned (the first part of the headline read, “Adams Indicted for Turkish Bribes”).
Steve LaBonne
This being an open thread- amidst all the other atrocities, I don’t think the destruction of NIH is getting nearly enough attention. Thanks to Josh Marshall for doing what he can.
John S.
@PJ: Did he really do that? Because his reference to the “downstate political machine” referred to a gathering of NYC politicians. And then he goes on to clarify “In case it’s not clear, that’s pretty much every powerful Democrat in the city”.
I think it’s pretty clear how he is using “downstate machine” in this context.
Captain C
@Leto:
Tell me you’re a clueless sociopath inside an impenetrable bubble without saying you’re a clueless sociopath inside an impenetrable bubble.
trollhattan
@Steve LaBonne:
Once camped at Mt. Lassen Park for a week and on the last night we were treated to massive thunderstorms. On the drive out we observed scattered columns of smoke rising from forest, stretching to the horizon.
Enough of them grew and eventually merged into a massive fire complex that took weeks to extinguish and consumed hundreds of thousands of acres in the process. It’s impossible to respond to dozens of scattered fires.
Trump 2.0 is like that. Some will smolder an self-extinguish, some will grow and consume everything. I doubt the resources and authority exist to fight each, and my big fear is ultimately, SCOTUS will take Trump’s side regardless of how lawless.
trollhattan
@Captain C:
Can I assume he’s being Elmo and Zuck’s shine boy, threatening the EU from daring to regulate Twitter and Facepage?
Baud
/r/ Tennessee
prostratedragon
@Leto:
😉Beat you, friend, though your link is to a more complete article. Some English singers nailed him months ago, to a tune by ABBA: “Vance VP,” the Marsh family.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I find it odd that the GOVERNOR can remove a Mayor.
In my state, it literally would be a matter of the next election.
We don’t have recall options .
Sure Lurkalot
@Kay:
“Conventional” is too kind. Backward. Retrograde. Chauvinist.
wenchacha
Posting this for the Rochester, NY joke from Innerloop Comedy (no affiliation.)
Doorley is the DA who argued about a speeding violation because she’s a DA and called her cop friend to fix it.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1188887726576928&id=100063671346983
They made some funny Valentine’s.
Also too, Bove looks a little Roy Cohn around his mug.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: Oh, he’s a crook; I don’t think anyone’s doubting that… but it’s the implication that the “downstate machine” would somehow ignore his crookedness for “reasons.”
Obviously those Democrats cannot be trusted.
”There is no horseshoe. There is only white people who are at best uncomfortable with any power being held in Black hands. Those white people are at ALL POINTS of the ‘left-right’ spectrum.”
Remains as true today as when it was first written.
Glory b
@rikyrah: It’s not that, it’s actually allowed by New York law. It gives the governor the power to remove a mayor.
Sure Lurkalot
@prostratedragon:
While the US Government is listing words that must be eliminated from websites and publications? Fuck me, please tell me people laughed in his face.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
Yeah, if polling is any guide, the downstate folks are reacting to Adams’s actions better than white America reacted to Trump’s actions.
trollhattan
This is great, Vlad put a drone hole into the Chernobyl containment dome (that Russia occupies). Fucker.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyjvkggdnqo
Seems like a weird flex, even for him. Timed to distract the European Security Conference, I guess?
prostratedragon
@Steve LaBonne: I agree it’s one of the most far-reaching horrible things he has done — no, made damn sure to do right away. Up there with the destruction of the national security system and in my opinion treasonous on its own.
Professor Bigfoot
@Glory b:
The fear of Black power goes a lot further than just the conservatives.
rikyrah
@Geminid:
The Adams election has soured me on ranked choice voting.
Leto
@rikyrah: it’s not like there was a 900 page manual that explicitly stated what they were going to do with my community that was available to all before the election. “He doesn’t mean it! He wouldn’t do that! Blah blah blah blah.”
They’ve never given two shits about us, and actively despise us. Fuckstick Von MeltedButterFace openly speaks of his contempt for vets. I’ve said this many times, but I’m going to repeat it: I’m going to shit on his grave. I don’t care that I’ll go to jail, I’m going to shit on his grave. The end.
Captain C
@trollhattan: Pretty much, except he won’t beat TCFG or Musk to death for pointing this fact out.
Captain C
@Baud: I mean, at some point someone’s going to not care that Skum is always carrying around his 3-year-old as a human shield if this keeps going on.
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Thank you for this.
As a vet who uses the VA, this is very important – and not just for me, The VA is something vets earned – and there are a lot of us. I don’t know what armed forces pay is these days but back a billion years ago when I was in it SUCKED. Sure I got fed and had a place to sleep (my bedroom had over 75 people sleeping in it. I’ve heard every possible snoring concept in the world, and while the food wasn’t ALWAYS bad, it wasn’t often more than minimal) And remember the Vietnam war was on while I was in the military. People still alive today fought in that war. Many were injured and live with the results. I was in the USN and sent elsewhere but many more were in Vietnam and this WILL NOT GO OVER WELL. We earned the VA, given the pay, the food, the possibilities of not getting out alive or with massive injuries, including loss of limbs, hearing, etc. And that applies to people that have been in the military since, because I’d bet that the military has not changed much at all, because it really can’t, not given it’s concept and mission. Now it does accept women in all aspects of it’s duties, which it did not when I was in. Women did not serve in war zones or on ships or fly airplanes. They do today, in all aspects of the military.
Also, absolutely ridiculous is correct.
ArchTeryx
@Professor Bigfoot: I’m looking at things from a wider perspective. I’m a white guy, but the state government is the largest employer of black folks in the state. By a wide margin.
If throwing a crook that happens to be black out the airlock would save the state government for the rest of us, I’d be the first one to lobby Hochul. But the politics are a lot more complicated. And it may come down to ignoring one crook (who’s going to get voted out anyway) for the sake of not getting a fascist governor. Who will promptly fire every black person working for the state, unions be damned.
There’s black folks on BOTH sides of this debate. Making the Eric Adams mess be a black-white thing just shows ignorance about NYS politics. But I don’t know what the politics actually are. I just know this state comes closer every statewide election to getting fascist-curious, and a LOT OF NYC residents already are there.
The idea that Trump controlling Adams means he controls NYC is overblown. As I said, the NYPD controls NYC, and they’ve always been quite firmly in Trump’s corner. They’re a big part of the reason Harris almost lost in this state. Adams is just another crooked NYC mayor, a figurehead.
We are far less of a blue state than people think we are. If NYC as a whole turns pro-fascist in the next governor’s election, we are absolutely sunk. What’s being done at the federal level will just be repeated here, and one of the last great blue bastions will fall. THAT is what would put Trump in total control of New York State.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
Ranked choice voting has saved us in Maine from losing to Republicans. We learned the hard way why it is essential. Republicans kept challenging it in the courts because it is so important for preventing their Green Party fuckery.
Captain C
@Sure Lurkalot: “Hey, JV, go back to your couch and leave this sort of thing to the adults.”
Glory b
@PJ: Exactly.
And for those wondering, one way to get THE BASE (everyday black voters) into the fold, is to bring in black ministers.
I’m not in NYC, but I’m figuring that Sharpton & the group want him removed, but need to make sure that black leadership AT ALL LEVELS (have we forgotten how many “community leaders” are ministers?) are behind his removal.
They want to present as united a front as they can.
prostratedragon
@Sure Lurkalot: Don’t know, but Chacellor Pistorius of Germany had a counter that met with applause. I don’t speak German, but pretty sure his last words in the clip were “not acceptable.”
Captain C
@trollhattan: No idea how to do it, but at this point not only does Vlad need to be removed, but Russia probably needs to be dismantled, up to and including cutting up whaterver Russia proper is into its former constituent states, and not even a Muscovy (we can bring back Vladimir-Suzdal).
MazeDancer
Jamie Raskin just issued a letter to Pam Bondi that she cannot keep the entire Publib Integrity Unit in a room intimidating them. Threatening to fire them all unless someone fikes the Adams motion.
Who would want to be their generation’s Robert Bork?
Though Trump would be thrilled of the entire unit left.
But Judge Ho doesn’t have to accent the motion, does he?
Parfigliano
@Geminid: Why the fuck is “the clergy” involved in a meeting concerning the political future of NYC Mayor Adams?
Stay in your lane or start paying taxes ” clergy”.
FelonyGovt
@eclare: I haven’t lived in NYC for over 40 years, but I think this is an important instance of folks with integrity fighting back against plainly illegal and improper acts of this administration.
PJ
@John S.:
Yes, he did. This is the link he put up for the “downstate machine”: https://www.yahoo.com/news/rev-al-sharpton-gathering-ny-003300231.html
Kay
@Leto:
It’s good though. Donald Trump, Elon Musk and JDVance may save the rest of the world from far Right, fascist authoritarianism. Running against Trump and the US is already the politically savvy move in Canada, Mexico and Denmark – now it will be good politics in all of Europe.
The United States didn’t save itself, but now we’re repellent enough to save the rest of the world, by our “good, bad example”
MazeDancer
They got some career guy to Bork it for them.
“Assistant US Attorney Dick Gozinya”
Dale Ho gonna shred him.
sixthdoctor
(dupe of post above)
prostratedragon
@Parfigliano: You do know something about the civil rights movement, I trust. As for taxes, well, the clergy themselves do pay them.
Professor Bigfoot
@ArchTeryx: I don’t disagree with any of that; what bothers me is the implicit assumption that “the machine” would behave unethically, simply because Adams is Black.
What offends MM and so many others here is that there is power in Black hands. Many commenters here have demonstrated in this thread that they are uncomfortable with the power they believe “the machine” has.
”There is no horseshoe. There is only white people who are at best uncomfortable with any power being held in Black hands. Those white people are at all points of the ‘left-right’ spectrum.”
Shalimar
@rikyrah: The Michigan governor has also taken control of cities in the last 15 years and appointed administrators to replace their elected leaders. That is even more power than Hochul has in New York.
Professor Bigfoot
@Parfigliano: Like the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King did?
You seriously need to step back a bit.
Kay
@Leto:
When the Trump regime drives a wedge between themselves and other countries, they make a far Right regime less likely in those countries.
That’s a larger pro democracy coalition worldwide. We’ll need them.
rikyrah
@Shalimar:
it’s why Flint was poisoned
Leto
@Ruckus:
Don’t worry, it still sucks. After 9/11, they finally realized that we might actually want to be paid and brought enlisted play closer inline with inflation. That meant for a lot of mid-tier NCOs (8-14 year mark) we saw a pay bump of about 23%. I remember seeing that number and my eyes kind of bugged. And this went on for a few years.
All my NCOs used to tell me, “You don’t go into the military to become rich.” Yeah, but we shouldn’t be in fucking poverty either. Junior enlisted, today, still qualify for food stamps. I’m not looking to be rich, but ffs… Public service always equates to less pay, but usually better benefits. In 2015/16 they finally nuked that for the military as well when they got rid of the guaranteed pension (high-3), and moved to a more 401k style pension. They used magic numbers when presenting it to us; I called them out on it, the officers who briefed us, and they didn’t have a good response. A number od the military magazines covered the magic numbers as well but… I’m just a retired TSgt, wtf do I know.
Baud
@Kay:
Agree. A potential silver lining for the rest of the world.
prostratedragon
@Shalimar: I think that municipalities in this country are in general chartered by their States, which might give someone or some body at that level much control over them. They certainly are not fundamental in the Constitution.
Leto
@Kay: agreed. Similar to a lot of leadership lessons I learned: “Don’t do that. Check.”
ArchTeryx
@Professor Bigfoot: In better times, I’d tell you some stories of our black woman manager Shaneeva. She’s very competent, very fair, and damn good at what she does. But she is like a squirrel on uppers at times, and I need my supervisor (who’s worked with her for 15+ years) to act as interpreter, so when she issues orders, I can understand and follow them.
I don’t want to lose her. Neither does my very white boss or anyone else on our team. Nor would I want to lose Liz, another black lady that’s a master SQL programmer and writes a lot of our query scripts. She’s currently training one of our newbies and he couldn’t have a better teacher.
I have NO PROBLEMS with these folks in power. They’re honest and they’re damn good. But I live in Albany, not The City, so I’m letting the folks down there decide what to best do about Eric Adams. I just don’t want all of us to be collateral damage. We’re under siege as it is from Muskrat’s unmerry band of vandals.
scav
@Baud: Ah yes, leading by stark counterexample. We’re #1!!!
PJ
@Parfigliano: I am begging white people to gain some understanding with regard to Black people, their culture, and their history. And with regard to your complaint, the role of the Black church in maintaining and sustaining Black people and advancing civil rights.
I am serious. I am not the most enlightened person, and I did not grow up in the most enlightened place, but I have learned a little, and I believe everyone can learn at least a little about the history and culture of their fellow Americans, about what is important to them and why. Please. It is Black History Month (maybe the last one, if Trump has his way).
Leto
Luuuuul:
MSNBC – Trump warns consumers: Prices ‘could go up’ because of White House plans
Will this breakthrough to all the dumb shits? Who knows. I hope all those printers who are pumping out the Trumpov “I did that” can ramp up for the upcoming demand.
raven
@Ruckus: And yet these motherfuckers overwhelmingly voted for thus asshole
ArchTeryx
@rikyrah: That was just a straight up crime against humanity, and Snyder got away scott free with it. I can’t tell you how angry that made me, and I’m a white dude. It’s been completely memory-holed, even in Michigan.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
I don’t see how that can happen. Sure the mayor is part of the governing segment but as you elude, the 2 are not connected in the aspect of retaining their job. Now is it possible that anyone other than the courts could fire someone in the state government for corruption? Does not seem possible, unless they are connected by some segment of the law, the city and state governments are independent, at least in most places I’ve lived.
Old School
@Leto:
Wait. I thought foreign countries paid the tariffs. I think that’s what I was told.
Professor Bigfoot
@ArchTeryx: You realize, of course, you just did the “#NotAllWhitePeople,” right
Edited to add: I mean, I do appreciate it when it happens, but you are a distinct minority among white people, as demonstrated in this very comment thread.
Baud
@Leto:
I hope the public doesn’t give Trump more leeway than they gave Biden. But I’m not getting my hopes up.
Parfigliano
@Professor Bigfoot: Dr King advocated for all people not for or against one politicians political fortunes/career.
Big difference.
Kay
@Baud:
I find it very comforting that our far Right regime has pushed both Mexico and Canada away from the far Right.
We’re surrounded by democratic countries who are now explicitly anti-US regime.
Professor Bigfoot
@Parfigliano: Which Black clergyman are you talking about, then?
Professor Bigfoot
@Kay: We’re the leaders of the free world!
Sorta.
(no, really, if the rest of the planet can learn from our bad example, then good.)
Steve LaBonne
@Professor Bigfoot: I just don’t understand the @NAWP impulse. I know what I believe and what I do, and when I’m not being attacked I’m not being attacked.
Baud
@Kay:
We might have saved Germany and France too. We’ll see. It’s not over yet.
ArchTeryx
@Professor Bigfoot: Nope. Not absolving white people from interfering with this mess in destructive ways. And I said directly: That’s why I want the folks down in The City to decide this. That’s where most of the state’s black leaders reside, and they’re the ones right in the firing line – literally, considering the NYPD. I’m just along for the ride. I hear from *THEM* that Adams needs to go to save NYC and the rest of the state from fascist takeover, then I’m gonna be one of a bunch of people calling Hochul’s office.
I’m standing back and keeping an ear to the ground. Where the City goes so does the rest of the state, no matter how much they hate being dragged along.
The folks in this thread that think they know better than the black folks on the firing line really need to keep their BS to themselves. They aren’t looking at it from the picture of a City native. That some of us know better doesn’t absolve the rest from the shit they do. The WHITE PEOPLE in this state already tried to sink it in 2024.
TL;DR: I’m on your side here. But I’m also on the side of all my fellow state workers.
That a little better?
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Let’s hope people in those countries react the way Canadians have.
Ruckus
@ArchTeryx:
I saved a bit and worked till I was well into my 72nd year so my SS income is livable. Not great mind you, but livable. And part of that is that I use the VA (that I EARNED) that shitforbrains is now trying to screw me out of. It could be said that I’m not real fond of republicans at this moment, especially their “leader.” Not caring in any positive way about his buddy and overlord either.
One might want to understand that there is a not insignificant segment of the population that uses the VA because they are veterans and the care is both earned and decent. And a lot is based upon why and how that care was earned. Especially in the care of people with “war defects.” And there are a few of those. I’m not one of them but I see people that are all the time.
Betty
@trollhattan: That is what I assume. Gotta protect the money boys.
Professor Bigfoot
@Steve LaBonne: I get it, I really do— I even succumbed to the “Not All Men” declaration; and I will forever be grateful to the women who set my ass straight.
It’s not all of us, and everyone knows this; but it’s so goddamned many of us that any woman is only rational to assume it of any man she runs across until he demonstrates otherwise.
And even then, it’s a constant, daily job of work to overcome the sexist tendencies being male raised in a patriarchal society… but I count myself fortunate that I know women who like me and respect me enough that they’ll sort my ass out, as necessary.
It’s amazing what I learned when I first learned to STFU, STFD, and listen to women.
Geminid
@rikyrah: I was never a big fan myself. We’ll get to see how it works out this time.
My impression is that Ranked-choice got a lot of push from “progressive” circles. If Andrew Cuomo wins, that will likely take a lot of wind out of RCV’s sails.
One of the theories behind RCV was that all those choices would bring more voters to the polls. Ironically, observers described the 2021 NYC primary as a low-turnout election.
rusty
I’ll take the contrary position regarding Hochul firing Adams. “Don’t interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake.” In the longer term, trying to dismiss the charges is causing far more havoc and harm on the red side of the aisle. Federalist Society goons are refusing to follow the administration orders. The issue is splitting them and hopefully will have consequences. Hochul firing Adams fixes the problem for Trump, then they just drop the whole idea. Even our supine mainstream press is starting to notice this is a gross authoritarian move. I would let it play out until they get someone to sign the request to dismiss, and the judge rips them a new one for filing such a transparently (and thoroughly discredited by the resignations) biased request. There is more harm to be inflicted on the Republicans. Only when that’s done, then fire Adams.
Professor Bigfoot
@ArchTeryx: Let’s just say I get you, and “we cool.” :)
Feckless
Fire them all.
ArchTeryx
@Ruckus: Believe me, you’re preaching to the choir about the VA. My father was a WWII combat veteran. Italian theater, AAC pilot, 110th Airborne (I believe, he passed away in 1997). He used the VA to the end of his life.
Of course the fascists want to dismantle it. They never have given a shit about veterans. Fascism worships martyrs, not those that inconveniently survive. It just boggles my mind that so mant veterans vote against their own benefits, time and time again.
TONYG
@Kay: I’ve always wondered how much the cops “work” during overtime
Professor Bigfoot
@ArchTeryx:
Likewise with unions. I have searched for a better explanation, but William of Ockham tells me it’s the simple one.
The preservation of white privilege is IMPORTANT to a lot of people.
RaflW
Just gotta say, between Bove and Stephen Miller, we definitely have some guys who’ve gone Nazi who look exactly like guys who would go Nazi. And I agree, in both cases (Miller is only 39) evil ages people.
TONYG
@ArchTeryx: Veterans are the peasants doing the dirty work. They don’t matter
ArchTeryx
@Professor Bigfoot: I’m just in a truly foul mood today. My quiet, peaceful state workplace is one of my only respites from the hell we’re all being drowned in, and I’m scared out of my freaking mind.
“We cool” is what I want to be. I know who my enemy is, and it ain’t the black folks doing their best to survive in this sometimes wretched state.
Geminid
@Captain C: Musk was toting that kid around last Fall when he visited President Erdogan at the Turkish Consulate in New York.* So this behavior pre-existed the murder of the health care executive.
Musk may be using the kid as an accessory in order to humanize himself. I saw a West Virginia journalist describe Jim Justice’s famous dog in those terms. I can see how that might be so, but I hope no one tells Baby Dog!
* Many of the bribery counts against Adams and his subordinates centered on fast-tracking permits for the Consulate building. That makes me wonder if this was a standard method of shaking down developers, or if the Turks were in a special.hurry.
ArchTeryx
@Professor Bigfoot: Maybe that’s why I ended up the way I did. Most white privilege didn’t apply to me. I’m disabled. I’m just as much of a <insert racial slur here> as black folks to the fascists. If I have common cause with *ANYONE* it’s minorities. And that’s no different here.
Fuck the MAGAts. They’re the enemy, and a HUGE majority of them are white, including a shit-ton of white people who should KNOW better in this state.
May I dare ask… where do you stand on the Eric Adams mess? At least, I can start there.
Glory b
@Parfigliano: Because they want as much of the black voter base to buy in as they can get.
You don’t know how powerful the black clergy is?
MLK? Ring a bell? I can list others. Lots of black members of congress, state officials, etc, are clergy.
trollhattan
Donny says “fuck your vacation, I want this park for my resorts.”
oldgold
The Wharton School of Business should be shamed and shuttered for giving Trump a degree.
Even Rupert Murdoch’s damnable Wall Street Journal opined yesterday:
“Does Mr. Trump understand money?” “The answer would appear to be no.”
Someone should give Trump the Cliff Notes version of Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations published in 1776 and force him to read it.
Trump’s economic policies are pure madness.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
and my big fear is ultimately, SCOTUS will take Trump’s side regardless of how lawless.
Like most people of power, power is a consideration whenever a decision has to be made. It is possible of course that they will 100% take his side. But look at it from other directions. They have lifetime power over this and all other segments of the entire government and the people. If they actually do their job (which of course you are eluding to that they won’t/might not) it won’t actually hurt them but if they chose to play the shitforbrains/puppet master game it just might. We are all standing on a very high precipice, the fall of which will affect all of us. OUR government is being overrun by the individual at the top, who has an extremely wealthy puppet master pulling his strings.
ArchTeryx
@Glory b: They as a group are one of the greatest community organizers and power centers in the City. They’re among the folks I am trying to listen to most closely. They know they stakes, and they know the enemy.
tobie
@Leto: I just checked the headlines in some major German publications. The lead article in Die Zeit (a weekly) is about Trump/US: “This is how the mafia speaks.” The lead articles in Süddeutsche Zeitung (a daily) are: “Anticipating a Showdown” (about US and Europe); “J D Vance endorses AfD: What an Affront” (commentary). The Social Democratic defense minister has called J. D. Vance’s comments “unacceptable.” The Frankfurter Allgemeine (daily) doesn’t have any articles up on the latest US embarrasment but it’s not a 24-hour newspaper.
RaflW
@Parfigliano: You seem to be operating from the assumption that the clergy are going to excuse the mayor’s corruption. I see this as a group that may finally have the leverage/persuasion to get Adams to GTFO.
Also, generally, I absolutely agree with what @PJ said.
Kay
@oldgold:
Theyre bad enough it makes me optimistic for the US to survive this.
None of these economic plans are going to work.
Hoodie
@rusty: I’m wondering if Hochul and other Dems are weighing dismissal of Adams vs a significant chance the judge will deny this deal or at least hold a hearing that will air all of this out in public. With the resignation of the prosecution team, it raises questions as to whether the deal is corrupt and, if I were the judge, I’d at least want an evidentiary hearing as to what went down in these negotiations because I wouldn’t want it to look like I was in on some shady shit. There is precedent for this, e.g., the judge that denied the Hunter Biden deal.
Glory b
@Professor Bigfoot: As we now discover (some of us anyway).
Ruckus
@Glory b:
I can actually see that for NY, seeing as how the mayor of NYC is a very large segment of the state population, around/over 40% of it.
Kay
@oldgold:
Trump believes them too. He’s adopted Musk’s view. Trump now says there will be short term economic pain. He genuinely thinks these are good, new ideas.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: I think something like RCV is a necessity when you have a polity like Maine where, regardless of consequences, people insist for some aesthetic reason on constantly supporting third-party or independent candidates, AND the major parties both insist on fielding candidates in the same races.
But the tradition in New York is more fusion tickets, right? The little parties endorse major-party candidates.
It’s not a panacea. (And the real election-reform wonks grumble that instant-runoff voting is the wrong way to do it, and propose more arcane and counterintuitive systems that they can argue mathematically are superior. But I think that if we want buy-in to these systems from the people, they also have to be able to understand them to the degree that they can think of them as legitimate.)
oldgold
@Kay: Yes, new ideas like mercantilism and colonialism.
Both of these isms were wasms, for damn good reasons, until this ignoramus came to power.
Like you, on the economic front, I think this is going to end very badly.
Geminid
@Parfigliano: Hey, I didn’t say anything about the leaders who would be at the meeting, just listing some other NYC Reps besides Ocasio-Cortez who are not included (I left out Grace Meng!). I thought her exclusion was by no means exceptional.
I think other people here have answered your question, but I can report that Black people are 20% of my state’s population and are a cornerstone of our Democratic coalition. I expect Abigail Spanberger will be hitting a lot of Black Churches this campaign, and I’m all for it.
pajaro
@Ruckus:
Apparently, the Constitution of the State of New York gives the Governor the power to remove the mayor.
Hoodie
@Kay: Having dealt with tech “entrepreneurs” for around three decades, these guys often think they have discovered the wheel. It’s often the veil they cover their consciences with to justify whatever ripoff they’re trying to execute. The operative mindset is that sheer will can overcome all obstacles, with the operative reality being that they’ll be long gone with the investors’ cash before people realize that their ideas are unworkable or not really worth that much. Elon is realizing that EVs are being commoditized and Tesla is a meme stock ripe for a bust. Commoditization is a common cause of death for startup tech. I’ve seen companies disappear once this happens because the Koreans, the Chinese or someone else will do it better and cheaper. This may also be the future for Starlink as rural broadband and buildout of 5G will likely shrink its potential customer base. So he’s working on a new scam, this time revolutionizing government in a way that protects his access to federal cash.
LAC
@Glory b: You know what? Let’s let them figure it out! It’s black history month – surely they can look this up.
trollhattan
@pajaro:
Just found a source saying that and in addition, it’s part of the NYC charter.
In sum, a very special set of circumstances gives the governor this particular power. Hey lady, that button? Push it.
prostratedragon
@Geminid: Too lazy/repelled by the father bastard to look it up right now, but wasn’t that kid the subject of a custody battle? From what I’ve seen of him, I might drop my claim over little boots if I were his mother.
Captain C
@Baud: With regards to the FTFNYT, that ship has not only sailed but is well over the horizon.
Captain C
@RaflW: I’m not saying that when (hopefully) Miller finally goes to prison for something, he gets “KAPO” branded onto his forehead, I’m just saying it would be way, way down on my list of things to complain about.
John S.
@PJ: Ok. Whatever you say.
Geminid
@trollhattan: I’ve been impressed by SFGate. It’s another one of the many newer media sites that provide good reporting, often on stories that don’t make it onto “national” news sites.
prostratedragon
@RaflW:
Definitely how I interpreted the fuller statment from Rev. Al in the yahoo article. A suggestion that Adams read the writing on the wall.
rikyrah
@Parfigliano:
The same way that evangelicals are all up in 47’s WH.
Politics goes through the Black Church. There has been nothing to be substituted for it.
rikyrah
@oldgold:
Gonna stick up for Federal Workers. I believe there are two kinds of people:
Those who know the application process for a Federal Job
Those who know the application process for a Federal Job
The second category are those who didn’t make it through the process. Thus, their hatred of the first group.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: One aspect of New York City’s politics is that the Democratic nominee typically wins the general election. So that might justify RCV. But like I noted above, the City’s former system of holding a runoff if no one exceeded 40% was just as good and maybe better.
One alternative: California’s, Louisiana’s and Washington’s jungle primary sytems, where the top two finishers advance to the general election. This tends to negate the role of third parties, which has been raised in Maine’s case. That may or may not be a good thing– I think it is– but it’s definitely a feature of the jungle primary system.
I kind of like Alaska’s new system. First they hold an open, “jungle” primary. Then the top four finishers advance to a Ranked-choice runoff in November.
But we’re slow adopters down here in the Old Dominion. That’s a good thing in my opinion. All these systems have their bugs– or unintended consequences– and I’d just as soon other states and cities work them out.
Ruckus
@Leto:
I figured it did. Now there was a war we were involved in, and the draft was actually still happening, and every male had to take a physical shortly after turning 18 (and yes, I did. I was breathing and didn’t weigh over 300 lbs so I passed) and the pay was basically completely pathetic, becoming rich (or even financially sound) was considered a nightmare, because it was absolutely impossible. Other than winning at cards or betting on things you already absolutely knew the answer to. And there wasn’t enough time to do enough of either of those.
I made E5, in as short a time as possible, the highest I could go in one enlistment, and became in charge of a department on the ship I was stationed on for 2 years. My last 6 1/2 months was hospital, then transit barracks master at arms, then shore patrol, and my last 2 weeks on board a ship in the yard. Vietnam was over so they were giving early outs and I got mine. I have stories, I learned a lot about humanity (and how some seem to lack any) about sailing the ocean with 50+ foot waves and how amazing it is to step off a ship onto the ice in Antartica, or see Guantanamo bay, or the most northern port in Norway and many, many parts in between. I was lucky in many ways, the bits above are a minuscule part of interesting. I once got shot at walking back from downtown Charlestown. I set a half mile running record. Never got my trophy….
Martin
All this shit could have been avoided if NYC dems got behind Maya Wiley. Dems can be some of the dumbest motherfuckers walking.
Chief Oshkosh
@Old School: That is one reason that is common across the two issues. The larger issue also common across the two is that of POTUS inserting himself into a very local issue. If he can do it in NYC, he can do it anywhere.
The Adams case is on a whole other level, though. It is profoundly corrupt, and it is corrupting at the federal level. This affects all levels of justice at every location in the country
ETA: Also important the Trump be stymied at every opportunity. As Josh Marshall often says, power is unitary. Any win anywhere makes Trump stronger overall. Any loss is a demonstration that there are chinks in the armor.
Geminid
@Martin: There’s an educator from.the Bronx that Rikrah sometimes reposts here: Mr. Weeks(?), @wonderking82; a gay Black Hampton University graduate.
I follow him too, and he said of the Mayoral election that he was pulling for Maya Wiley, but when she adopted the “Defund the Police” slogan he knew she would lose. It was not at all popular in his Black neighborhood, and they know about cops and crime.
I think Wiley came in third, behind Adams and Kathyn Garcia.
Kay
7th prosecutor just stepped down.
He said “the DOJ is looking for a coward or a fool and I am neither”
Timill
@Geminid: She was second on first preferences, ahead of Garcia and behind Adams.
Wiki on the NYC Mayoral Election
Geminid
@Timill: Interesting. Garcia must have passed Wiley as the rankings 2nd and lower were distributed.
Another Scott
Things seem to be quickly building to kick Adams out. Sassoon’s resignation letter seemed to light a fire under the folks weighing this decision and other NY politicians.
CityAndStateNY.com (from 11 AM Thursday):
Politics is slow. But they seem to be heading to the correct resolution.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Gloria DryGarden
@rusty: you make a real great point, to let it play out so the enemy has enough rope to tie themselves up in knots, publicly. To not solve the problem for them.
everybody: speaking as a rank beginner, I’m trying some active listening here: it sounds like re: ny gov, firing the mayor of nyc, for some federally corrupt thing (the details of which I missed, trying to handle my own personal avalanche) there a a few layers-
There is the question of precedent, and which level of cause/ federal misuse of powers/ corruption is enough for a governor to remove a city mayor, and the timing of it vs letting the right face their own mess..
And in addition, if it begins to look like firing the mayor is the wisest choice, Black clergy and Black elected folks and community leaders absolutely must be consulted and have a big say. They have to be included in the decision. Because it’s pretty sensitive to have a white person in power take a black person out of power. ( understating it)
Am I understanding this correctly?
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid: when we get a full moment, it might be fruitful to have a thread discussing ranked choice voting. It’s complex. We just had to vote about that in November, in Colorado. The issue was clear as mud. I had to make a flurry of calls to consult with folks more expert than me, to understand who was behind it, who it benefitted, the way they proposed to set up our ranked choice voting.
The thought that a different person would have won in NYC if they’d voted without RCV, gives me pause.
I can’t seem to understand the math of it, either. Math should be crystal clear, or else it’s spooky, and feels like underhanded sneakiness.
Ruckus
@Professor Bigfoot:
Going out on a limb here.
I’d bet that not all white people think that way. Because I know better.
And yes absolutely a lot do. Absolutely a lot would do anything to control what they feel is wrong with the world or at least the US and that is people of color.
As a white man I’ve seen and heard this most of my life. I worked for years in south central LA. I also lived and went to school in a multi racial town. And it wasn’t perfect in many ways, decades ago. And it could be better today. And it is. Does it need to be better?
Absolutely damn right it does.
Now for the 54 billion dollar question.
How can we make it better?
I live in an apartment complex. I’m building a cabinet for one of my neighbors, a black man and his black wife. I’m not doing it for money, I actually like them. A lot. (I’ve built all of my furniture, all but one piece here in this complex)
We can make it better by damn well trying to. But it’s humanity, in all it’s good and in all it’s BAD. It shouldn’t take time but it does. It should be easy – but some white people will fight it because they are complete and utter assholes. I’ve met some of them and that’s how I know they are complete and utter assholes. I saw this in the USN over half a century ago. Is it better today? In my world yes. Is the fight done yet? Not by a long ways. Can it ever achieve 100% done? It’s humanity, in all its parts, good, bad and shitty so I’ll say I doubt it.. We all have to work on it from both sides because it is humanity, in all its good and in all its bullshit. People of minimal color (white) need to work harder because they are the side that hates for no reason whatsoever. Because we all have the same chemical in our bodies that makes our skin the color it is. Some of us just have more. I’m in that bit that has less. And that does not make you or me any less human, not in any way. This country was founded on ALL of us being equal. It has not, in many ways stepped up to that over time. But it’s past time now. All we have to do is convince part of humanity that they are full of shit. It will take time. And some will never learn. They never do. I wish I had a clue how to fix that.
Just a note for you to ponder-
I knew a woman that I would have asked to marry me if she wasn’t gay and I’m one of the very last people in the world to talk to her, she was in the hospital, and she died just a short time later.
Of Sickle Cell.
I don’t tell this story very often, or ever, because I still miss this human being, and it’s been well over 20 yrs since she passed. Just in case you, or others, don’t get the point – she was black.
Gloria DryGarden
@Ruckus: so beautifully said. Agree.
Gloria DryGarden
I know, I’m late on the thread…
Did jd Vance get no coaching or prep on international diplomacy, tact, how to not make enemies?
As USA executive branch goes around unplugging our international playing cards, do they not know, and see, that they are not only making enemies, but inciting them? And creating so much massive chaos and disarray that weakens our ability to protect ourselves even within our own sphere, aside from all our international power mongering?
I care a bunch about FP.
Agree w Kay, et Al, that our bad example is moving other countries to not go fascist. It’s pretty moving.
Gloria DryGarden
@Gloria DryGarden: when we get a dull moment…
(oops)
artem1s
Extortion is against the law. Adams should sue his ass.
Captain C
@artem1s: Adams is probably happy to be used if it keeps him out of jail. I think he also knows he’s toast in November.
Geminid
@Gloria DryGarden: Maybe when the NYC Democratic Ranked-choice primary is imminent. That might be a good time to discuss that system. Or afterwards when we see how it plays out.
Under the old system, there would be a runoff if the leader did not exceed 40% of the vote. Then, there would be several weeks (maybe three?) for voters to focus on only two candidates. Personally, I think that’s better.
New York City seems to have its own unique politics, so it may not provide the best example. But its Mayoral race is currently the most prominent example of Ranked-choice voting and many people will judge the system by the result there.
Gloria DryGarden
@Geminid: cool. I’m intested in a big compare contrast, how it works in various states, how fair is it to the electorate..
Ruckus
@Gloria DryGarden:
Here in CA we often get a number of people running for local office and in some cases there can be a sizable number of candidates. But at least in the high population areas, like Los Angeles County we may have several people running and each has to sell themselves to a not insignificant number of voters. Now often no one other than family/coworkers has ever heard their names. But our ballots come with a lot of personal info and remarks, and in the big population areas they will get exposure. And yet it is more often than not, still a crap shoot. Will they be reasonable? A very necessary question because we likely will never agree 100% on everything. It is after all humanity. Also as elected officials they may have far more info than we do from newsprint and TV. And I’d bet there are people (like ME) that watch/listen to internet and not broadcast TV or radio, but are at least paying attention to our political party, where there is more info. (May not be any more informative but at least we can ask) I have in the past voted for the person that did the most on their own to get out their statements, positions, history, etc. I have worked in the vote building side of a few candidates and found there is ALWAYS info that does not get printed or broadcast, not because it is bad – or good, it just doesn’t resinate with a lot of people or it gets deep into the candidate’s history which may be great – or not so much. I lived in OH for a while and saw the same thing happen. There is only so much time and newsprint and the vast majority of the time there is nothing about a lot of a people’s history to make them more positive or negative to most people. And that also often doesn’t tell you what they will do in any particular situation. Hell, they may not know. And in politics/governing sometimes what we think is the worst answer – is the correct one.
Gloria DryGarden
@Ruckus: this summer Katie porter lost partly bcs of ranked voting. I understand it’s not cool to like her, that she blew her pr spin by whining, but she did some great fact checking in congressional hearings. It might have been a boon to have her in congress somewhere.
pluky
@Matt: Because the Black Church has been the locus of Black political power for generations.
Ruckus
@Gloria DryGarden:
I’d bet that not every part of being a politician is all that much fun.
Katie Porter was a decent politician. Hope she gets back on the horse because it would be a boon for all of us if she does. Not every politician needs to be spending time wishing/hoping/praying for their goal of the top job in DC, in that big white building. There is a lot of political crap to deal with in other areas. And it takes good people in those other areas as well.
Ruckus
@Matt:
Because most of those people are citizens as well as most other gatherings of humans in this country. You don’t have to agree or even believe what they worship to but many (most?) of church goers are citizens and are as good as everyone else. Most of them do not try to tell others that they are wrong. Sure some do but those are words that you can ignore if you please. And they have a right to believe what they want, as long as it isn’t about stealing everything you own or screwing your 12 yr old (just examples….) And in case you are interested I haven’t been to/in a church for decades. But we have the right to go – or not. Just like them. IOW get off your high horse. It adds nothing positive to the discussion.
Geminid
@Gloria DryGarden: There was no Ranked-choice voting in Porter’s case. California has a different system entirely, where there is an all-party, all-comer “jungle” primary. Then the top two finishers advance to a November run-off. Usually it’s a Democrat and a Republican, but sometimes it’s two candidates from the same party.
Washington and Louisiana also have this system. Washington and California adopted it in this century but Louisiana has had it for a while.
Porter probably would have lost to Schiff in a regular Democratic primary, especially with Barbara Lee in the mix. But we’ll never know for sure. I think Porter is back teaching law now at U. Cal.-Irving. Rep. David Min, Porter’s successor, also taught law there.
pluky
@rikyrah: Somewhere buried in the New York City Charter is a provision where the NYS Governor has the power to remove the NYC Mayor from office. I can’t determine if this was present from the start, or was added with one of the many revisions over time.
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
I am one of those. I enlisted/served during Vietnam. I didn’t see combat because the ship I was assigned to was stationed on the east coast. But I could have been sent anywhere. I crossed the Atlantic 6 times. but never went near Vietnam.
I use the VA for my medical needs and it is great care. Sure it has it’s moments, like every other human endeavor but overall I’m very happy with my care.
I earned this care, and I earned it fair and square. shitforbrains and elon earned NOTHING. elon because he was born and raised in SA, shitforbrains I believe bought his way out. Or his daddy did.
AND I EARNED THAT CARE. Military gets paid, or at least did, crap. Now of course we got living quarters If you can call 75 men living in bunks 3 high in a room less than 40 by 40 feet, everyone with a locker and half of a 5 inch gun magazine, which is a big circular thing loaded with live ammo. Oh and a table that at best could be used for playing cards. No food allowed. I had a bottom bunk, which was below the water line so if we got hit with a torpedo there was a possibility that I’d be fucking DEAD. We obviously didn’t.
I EARNED THAT CARE.
I earned it fair and square, and so did millions of other citizens. Men and women alike. Many were drafted, and yes I took my draft “physical” just after I turned 18 and could be drafted. I could be drafted and die for my country but back then I couldn’t vote.
These useless fucks take away my and many, many other citizens health care, and I’d bet there will be worse than hell to pay. We didn’t ask for a war (the vast majority anyway) but many died because of it. Almost 50 thousand did and many, many more were wounded. I know because I see some of them at the VA.
We served our country as it asked us or told us we had to. To protect our shores and citizens. And citizens do that to this day. Take that away and I make no guarantee that a fair number of citizens will be extremely pissed off. A person that was sent to war, shot at, quite possibly wounded and now told they get shit for doing what they were told was a citizen’s duty? Yeah I’m gunna buy that load of BULL AND SHIT. NOT.
Ruckus
@Leto:
I do like your style!
Ruckus
@Leto:
I was an E5 in the navy – which is petty officer second class, as high as I could go in one enlistment – and I wasn’t reenlisting. Looks like tech sarge is E6
Ruckus
@Leto:
You likely knew more officers I knew after my 3 1/2 yrs in the USN. The last 6 1/2 months I spent 2 months in hospital, 2 as transit barracks master of arms and 2 in the shore patrol. The last 2 weeks I was assigned to a helicopter landing ship in the shipyard. Of course to sign out and walk away I had to have everyone above me sign off my discharge release, the last being the executive officer, who of course had to give me shit for being discharged early, although Vietnam was over and my discharge early was a complete surprise to me. I wanted to tell him in the worst way to fuck off but I thought better of it, and walking off the gangplank one last time in uniform was my reward.
Kayla Rudbek
@Geminid: former Postal Inspector and CIA, I would Not want to get on her wrong side. I will be happy to vote for her and I hope to all the gods that she wins.
Kayla Rudbek
@Captain C: the only way I want to see Moscow is through a bomb sight
Kayla Rudbek
@Leto: sergeants run the Army, officers need to listen to them.
Kayla Rudbek
@Hoodie: there’s a page/group on Facebook called Did Silicon Valley Reinvent the Bus Again?