This weekend The Child and I took a long walk in London, going from South Kensington to Covent Garden. We swung by Buckingham Palace, then passed Carlton House Terrace, which overlooks the Mall, the wide road that goes from the Palace to Trafalgar Square. Carlton House Terrace is the home of the Royal Society, the UK’s natural sciences academy. Founded in 1660, the Royal Society pre-dates things like germ theory, the theory of gravity, and the United States.
To become a Fellow of the Royal Society (an FRS), you must hail from the UK or a Commonwealth nation and be nominated for exceptional achievement in the sciences. Past fellows include luminaries like Isaac Newton and Benjamin Franklin and Stephen Hawking. Current fellows number about 1,800, and include 85 Nobel Laureates in all manner of scientific disciplines: “classic” scientists like Jocelyn Bell Burnell, the astrophysicist who discovered pulsars, and pioneers of technology like Tim Berners-Lee, creator of the World Wide Web.
Elon Musk is also an FRS. At least, for now.
Even before the start of the new administration, there was rumbling among the rank and file Fellows about expelling Musk because of his attacks on Dr. Anthony Fauci and general spreading of science misinformation during the acute phase of the COVID-19 pandemic. One FRS, Dorothy Bishop, a psychologist with expertise in children’s language disorders, resigned in November 2024 in protest over Musk’s continued inclusion among the Fellows. Professor Bishop posted a long explanation of her reasoning in favour of Musk’s expulsion on her blog. Even beyond the dire consequences of his COVID and vaccine misinformation and his political meddling this past summer – posts he boosted on X arguably fed the fury behind the race riots here – she noted many alarming aspects to how he is running Neuralink which potentially break the Royal Society’s code of conduct. Plus, he has become a full-on climate change denier.
Then January came, and DOGE began its campaign of mayhem against federal science agencies. Royal Society fellows began to speak out more clearly, as did other scientists. Professor Stephen Curry (not that other Stephen Curry), a biologist who is not an FRS, wrote an open letter to the Royal Society about the Musk situation that has since been signed by more than 3,000 scientists, including many Fellows.
The usual apologists are decrying this situation as persecution by the woketty woke wokesters. There’s a long, whingey article by the Free Speech Union, founded by Tory peer Toby Young (who himself has quite the track record with COVID misinformation). In an update to her November blog post with the tongue-in-cheek title “Seven Reasons for Keeping Elon Musk as a Fellow of the Royal Society” Professor Bishop also notes that some commentators have argued that Musk shouldn’t be expelled when, say, James Watson, co-discoverer of the shape of the DNA molecule, remains a member in spite of his pro-eugenics views. There is also whatever is happening here in the Telegraph:
I only see one twit in front of me, Mr. Deacon.
There are also some more moderate concerns being raised about the potential damage of a establishing precedent expelling members for political “speech.” This could undermine trust in the political neutrality of the Royal Society and in science generally, per this op-ed by Fiona Fox, a science journalist with an Honorary FRS. Professor Kit Yates, however, rebutted this fairly decisively on Friday:
“[Ms. Fox’s argument] assumes that political neutrality is still an option. Given the radicalisation of parts of the political spectrum, particularly in the US, the idea that science can remain apolitical may no longer hold.
Science finds itself in a new political reality, in which scientific integrity itself is being politicised. In this climate any attempt at neutrality by individuals and institutions, from universities to media outlets, is increasingly seen as complicity.
The same is true of scientists and their institutions. If scientific institutions refuse to confront these realities, they risk allowing political forces to define the role of science for them.
Trust in science is not created solely by staying out of the political firing line—it is built on a commitment to truth and ethical rigour, especially when they are under threat.”
Professor Bishop sounds a similar note in her most recent blog post, concluding:
“Our fellow scientists in the USA are now under a level of pressure that even the most pessimistic of us had not anticipated. It is hard for individual scientists to resist. But the Royal Society has the clout and the resource to weather the storm.”
A week from today, the Royal Society will meet to debate how to deal with “principles around public pronouncements and behaviour of fellows.” It’s not clear whether this meeting will actually result to a motion to expel Musk from its ranks, but it could begin a more drawn-out process, such as preparing to poll the Fellows on the matter. Regardless, expulsion hasn’t happened in 150 years, and while it wouldn’t have a real material effect on Musk’s activities, it would be a blow to his prestige – and possibly give him a new chew-toy to focus on aside from his activities in DOGE.
Baud
I don’t think being a CEO of tech companies should qualify one for the Royal Society in the first place.
TBone
Bah humbug.
Apologies for overt cynicism. He just needs to ‘splode. Rapidly is understatement.
Rose Judson
@Baud: True! But, crazily, there are Fellows quoted in some of the articles I linked who seem to think EM is a “modern-day Isambard Kingdom Brunel.”
Scientists aren’t immune to hype cycles either.
Tenar Arha
Based simply on the information re: how he bought his diplomas, and his immigration visa shenanigans, plus he’s a US citizen now, and his “buying” the title of founder at Tesla, one could simply argue he’s a charlatan. I’m sure that breaches a serious honor code or dozen. Right?
Baud
Via reddit, anti-Musk sweetness.
Baud
@Rose Judson:
People stopped naming their kids Isambard so they wouldn’t feel pressure to live up to the legend.
MagdaInBlack
I first learned of the “Royal Society” in my early teens, when reading “Forever Amber.” Seems silly, but that book is the reason for my love of English history….
RSA
Musk’s initial admission to the Royal Society seems sketchy.
Incorrect. Tesla was founded by Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning.
I am skeptical.
I am skeptical.
Elon talks big, and he’s the richest man in the world, but it would be nice to see some documentation of his scientific prowess. Because he comes across as a puffed-up, half-educated douchebag.
SpaceUnit
That painting is all kinds of creepy.
Tenar Arha
@Baud: 🥰 cuties
MagdaInBlack
@RSA: He comes across that way because he is all of those things.
TKH
@Baud: But surely you would not want to squash the opportunity for the fellows to rub shoulders with the world’s richest man baby in the hope of shaking loose some change, say, a million or two here or there, would you now?
Ethics-schmethics
Remember how the weasels at MIT fell all over each other to schmooze with Epstein!
Raoul Paste
@Baud: This. As a real scientist, I am appalled.
hells littlest angel
I have no doubt Musk is responsible for the basic design of the Cybertruck.
The Cybertruck is why I decided ketamine is not for me.
Betty
@Tenar Arha: Conman works for me. The Royal Society should be able to verify the facts about Musk’s actual history and act accordingly.
RSA
@hells littlest angel: LOL. I was forgetting.
John S.
Yeah, but sophistry always sounds so much better with an English accent.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Baud: Is that not the truth?
HopefullyNotcassandra
@hells littlest angel:
It really is an ugly sight to behold. There is not a pleasing line on the whole vehicle.
sentient ai from the future
political neutrality is only possible when all of the major political power centres prioritize facts, knowledge, and data over political maneuvering, perceived expediency, and admonitions by the privileged.
if it is impossible to be politically neutral in the face of exhortations by the mob, then you go with the facts and the data, not the cries to burn the witches.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Agreed. I do not see anything in Musk’s CV that suggests he is worthy of inclusion.
sentient ai from the future
@hells littlest angel: my first experience with ketamine was while already drunk, outside of a nightclub.
i don’t recommend this combination.
i’ve had multiple encounters with ketamine since then and they all have been very un-fun.
if i squint, i could see how it could be fun if taken in conjunction with mdma, and how that might predispose one to enjoy it by itself. but that is not me.
A Ghost to Most
Elmo, like Steve Jobs, is just a malignant narcissist salesman.
kalakal
Anyone Toby Young supports should automatically be shunned. Along with Tobes.
John S.
@sentient ai from the future:
Yeah, it wasn’t my cup of tea either. But then again, I am predisposed to substances that come directly out of the ground. Not a big fan of chemicals.
NotMax
Presume the, uh, frolicking dolphin statue is still in place?
I also find the 1899 pedestrian tunnel underneath the Thames kind of neat-o. Video (9:04 – 10:20).
Jay
https://mockpaperscissors.com/2025/02/24/told-ya-9/
Keith P.
The usual apologists are decrying this situation as persecution by the woketty woke wokesters.
Turnabout is fair play
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Jay: Amy Winfrey on training AI:
This is a cat
toine
I find this to be the most useful resource ever when thinking about or debating “free-speech” issues.
https://xkcd.com/1357/
Elon is free to keep on saying/doing whatever he wants. Maybe the other members of the FRS have just decided to show him the door, which is also their right. It has nothing to do with wokeism or attacks on free speech. I mean Elon owns Twitter and his “free-speech” is being attacked??? Please…..
TS
The history you see in such a small area of London – an absolute delight. That musk has any part to play in this history is disturbing in the least and a disaster in the most. One thing is defined, trump and his co-president cannot buy or legislate their way into acceptance by anyone.
I was not so fit in my time in London, my favorite walk was Piccadilly Circus through Green Park to the Palace, with a stop at F & Ms to buy their coffee
Chief Oshkosh
@Jay: I know some federal employees whose direct supervisors told them to submit the five-bullet response, so they did. Since absolutely no information was provided about what should be in those bullets, you may not be surprised to know that there was a lot of variability, at least in the ones I was told about. Not sure how any sort of AI is going to be of much use as these lists certainly wouldn’t be indicative of whether a job is necessary or not.
Of course, it’s all BS.
azlib
@Jay:
Read this about LLM:
https://www.wheresyoured.at/wheres-the-money/?ref=ed-zitrons-wheres-your-ed-at-newsletter
Ed is a little over the top, but I think he has a point to make about AI being way overhyped.
sentient ai from the future
@Chief Oshkosh: https://youtu.be/SFxvyYYXqc0
TBone
@MagdaInBlack: not silly at all!
NotMax
@Mr. Bemused Senior
Cute².
TBone
@Mr. Bemused Senior: right up my alley cat!
Peke Daddy
@SpaceUnit: Eh, cherubim. No big deal. Franklin touching the eternal in search of knowledge.
NotMax
Music break.
The Six Wives of Henry VIII (full album).
Jay
@Chief Oshkosh:
I sent in 8, one from my actual account and 7 from throwaway emails, all spamming the system. I also included some white text that leads to dark places on the web.
And I am Canadian.
kalakal
@NotMax: Ah, I have worn out 2 copies of that LP
NotMax
@TBone
Ladeez and germs, Bent Fabric.
;)
Jay
@Jay:
For those who don’t know, white text is a response to Corporations using computers to pre-scan and round file resume’s and cover letters.
What you do is print out the job description, highlight all the “buzzwords” and other BS, then on both your cover letter and resume, in between the spacings, type in the words and phrases in white text.
The computer programs read the white text that HR can’t see and your application makes it past the computer controlled round file.
Depending on the program used, it will also “read” the white text, which if it is a malicious website, will trigger the computer to load the website.
Eric S.
@Jay: I’ve never heard of white texting. It’s brilliant.
Bill Arnold
@RSA:
In a very brief search, I was able to find only one paper with his name on it. (Plus a fluffy “commentary” about how humans should become a multi-planetary species.)
An Integrated Brain-Machine Interface Platform With Thousands of Channels (Elon Musk; Neuralink, September 09, 2019. Neuralink authors not listed.)
I strongly suspect that he did not write most of that, though he may have read it.
Also, only one US patent. (a few design patents.)
JoyceH
In addition to governmental checks and balances, big money also has checks and balances. In the normal run of events, when the holder and/or manager of the big money begins behaving irrationally, the other stakeholders in the big money take steps to have that person declared incompetent and thus Save The Money.
This failsafe can’t work with Trump since his company’s officers are also his offspring who have been psychological captives/slaves from birth and are incapable of challenging him.
But Musk? Does he even have a family, btw? I mean genuine next of kin, not procreation subcontractors. But his businesses – he owes huge chunks of those companies but not a controlling share of any of them. He’s the head of each company but his behavior is threatening the value of those assets. And when your corporate CEO is televised prancing onstage brandishing a chainsaw, I think you’re already over halfway to a claim of mental incompetence. Hey, corporate officers – are you going to stand by while a madman pisses away all that lovely lovely money?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@A Ghost to Most:
Elmo, like Steve Jobs, is just a malignant narcissist salesman.
Adam S had this summary of Edolph a few years back that seems on point with your statement:
Sure Lurkalot
@JoyceH:
Shareholders approved his bazillion dollar pay package last summer.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-pay-package-vote-cbs-news-explains/
7 big banks lent him billions to acquire twitter which is now worth about a quarter of what he paid and now they’re trying to peddle the loans to no avail.
The monied are not often the savvy.
Randal Sexton
@JoyceH: “Procreation Subcontractors” — kinda good there.
Kayla Rudbek
@Jay: apparently five to nine rounds of Habsburg AI is enough to screw up the training /input data and get completely useless output.