Heading back to DC to oppose the Republican budget scheme that will slash and burn Medicaid benefits.
There are 215 Democrats in the House.
We only need three Republicans to do the right thing and Medicaid will be saved.
— Hakeem Jeffries (@RepJeffries) February 24, 2025
Crockett: Right now they have a Trump trifecta. So when and if the government shuts down, it is going to be on Trump and his minions. It is not going to be on us as Democrats because we weren't elected to gut social security, to gut medicaid and medicare, to gut USAID, to gut any… pic.twitter.com/h4batj2fNL
— Acyn (@Acyn) February 24, 2025
????ALERT????: If you want Democrats to hold the line on Musk's illegal funding/firing spree, **RIGHT NOW** is time to make your voice heard. This update below is about just that. Not clear how hard a line Dems are taking. https://t.co/1j3esfFl8S
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) February 25, 2025
RED ALERT: Now Is the Moment, Folks https://t.co/85MsTDoxMf via @TPM
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) February 25, 2025
… At present Republicans are on course to shut down the government on March 14th. Essentially the Freedom Caucus is holding them hostage demanding not the draconian budget cuts favored by most of the GOP caucus but draconian-plus cuts, the kind that they fear will get their members in swing districts defeated. So they’re coming to Democrats, hat in hand, asking for help. I’ve explained in probably a dozen posts over the last month that this is the line not just on policy and anti-constitutional actions but also a key moment in the drama of performative power between President Trump and the opposition that will have repercussions and reverberations for months and perhaps years to come. There are already plenty of signs the public is turning against Musk’s wilding spree of criminal conduct through the federal government. To put it in the vulgar and rapacious terms that are the only ones that do it justice, Donald Trump and Elon Musk have spent the last month slapping around like bitches the Constitution, federal workers, the Democrats and really the sovereignty of the American people. Democrats have this moment to decide whether they’ll not only arrest the damage but change the tone through the idiom of power.
Well, now we appear to be at the crunch moment…
Republicans are coming to the Democrats hat in hand: We’re about to shut down the government. Help us prevent our extremists from doing that. Dems have to name their price. That’s presumably or should be no help until the criminal conduct stops. But according to Politico the Republicans are saying something like, ‘Be reasonable. Trump will never agree to that.’
Others may differ but I think the only reasonable position is “no help with your problem unless and until the criminal conduct stops.” And any deal needs to be enforceable…
Ed Kilgore, at NYMag — “Why the Government Will Probably Shut Down in March”:
… First, anything other than a simple extension of current spending levels across the board takes a lot of time and effort. Despite their apparent powerlessness, Democrats can block appropriations measures with a Senate filibuster, as they could in 2018 when Republicans had a governing trifecta as well. So they have to be cut in on any deal. And with just over three weeks until the money runs out, there have been virtually no real negotiations. There’s no “top-line” spending deal in sight dictating total appropriations, much less the deals over individual items. There’s also a total lack of agreement within the GOP caucuses, never mind across the aisle, as to whether the goal remains passage of the 12 individual appropriations measures covering all federal operations (as most conservatives prefer, even though it hasn’t happened since 1996), or some big fat “omnibus” bill combining appropriations, or yet another “continuing resolution” that just extends current spending levels until the end of the fiscal year in September. There’s obviously a lot going on in Washington right now, but enacting appropriations is one of the very few things Elon Musk or Russell Vought can’t do for Trump — yet time will soon run short.
Second, the two parties are perhaps farther apart than ever in their ideas about appropriate spending levels for this or that government function. Trump didn’t campaign on an extreme austerity budget, but that’s what he seems to be insisting upon in office, and all the saber-rattling from both DOGE and the Office of Management and Budget suggests he’s not going to be willing to wait for the next fiscal year to begin very deep cuts in programs and personnel of which he does not approve. Signing a same-old-same-old bipartisan spending measure would conflict pretty dramatically from his overall posture at the moment.
But the third and most important reason a shutdown might happen this time involves Democrats. Typically, as the “party of government,” Democrats can be counted on to supply whatever votes are needed to keep the federal government open. But now they are understandably horrified by the ever-proliferating power grabs undertaken so quickly by Trump and his agents — and by what they are doing with that power. Yes, they may be able to count on the federal courts to rein in DOGE or OMB or individual agency heads who are running wild, but (a) that will take time, (b) the outcome isn’t certain with a Trump-friendly Supreme Court at the end of every strand of litigation, and (c) passively watching the whole crazy show doesn’t reflect very well on congressional Democrats themselves, whose constituents are frantic for them to do something.
Democrats are already by definition shut out of the long-term budget decisions congressional Republicans are pursuing via budget-reconciliation legislation (which will also now, it appears, include the debt limit increase that once looked like a source of Democratic leverage). So getting a lot of concessions from Republicans in March is a no-brainer. Such concessions might go far beyond spending levels into subjects like reasserting Congress’s control of appropriations or reining in DOGE. The odds of those dynamics playing out to a successful conclusion without at least some lapse in appropriations seem low…
On The Road – TKH – Jordan Trail Part 5
lowtechcyclist
First!
Good morning, y’all!
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Good morning.
WereBear
I did have an unexpected outreach from an ex-Trump relative who came () this close to admitting how wrong it all had been. Male, so it’s all about deciphering the Testosterone Runes, but I salvaged the situation.
I focused my arguments (got loud at times) by pointing out how many times they had been lied to about everything. Here’s how to actually do research instead of gassing with their equally clueless buddies and beating on their chests with logs.
We actually got somewhere. Pointed him to VoteVets.org.
Not that this is going to fix anything NOW, though.
Baud
Stopping criminal conduct not enforceable thanks to the Supreme 6.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
A full night’s interrupted sleep! My abandonment of Threads and Bluesky seems salvific!
Baud
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Any particular reason to abandon Bluesky, or just cutting back on social media generally.
Baud
@WereBear:
Good for you.
p.a.
The adults in the room have to stop adulting. It sucks to have to let the worst happen so the electorate might* get a clue. If that even matters: “elections? How quaint!”
* things looking hopeful on this. Hope isn’t a plan. It’s a concept of a plan.
Baud
Via Reddit
Jesse
@Baud: Looking forward to seeing the February numbers.
TBone
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: good on ya! I had to stop reading Heather Cox Richardson first thing each morning for retention of the slice of sanity I still have maybe.
I was favorably impressed by Macron correcting some bullshit right to his face in the White House yesterday, am sticking with that feeling until after coffee at least.
Ohio Mom
I know I’ve said it before, Hitler dismantled German democracy in 53 days, and by my count, 53 days from the January 20 inauguration brings us to March 14.
And that’s the day the Freedom Caucus is planning on shutting down the government?!
Suzanne
Good morning, jackals.
I am away on business stuff, in a state bluer than my own, not too far from the Canadian border, and wondering if I really have to go back.
satby
@Jesse: would love to see all Elmo’s businesses become toxic. The “Richest man in the world” title has changed hands all throughout history and having to live through losing his is just the beginning of punishment I want for him.
TBone
@Ohio Mom: GAH!
Ohio Mom
@WereBear: Ah, those teachable moments. Always on their own schedule. You did good.
TBone
The Beatles have been coming up in my life some way or another every day now for four or five days. This morning, our local weather man chose this guy to delve into. Yesterday, WQSU college radio played this, also giving facts about him. Mood music for hopeful beings:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XWTvkcHlOPQ
PS also my dad’s favorite band, he left a synthesizer to me on which he’d been leaning some songs. It was programmed to Hey Jude, my aunt’s name. His mom, my Aunt Libby, taught piano, so he must’ve been brushing up in his late 60s. His dad was my Uncle Sam.
Suzanne
@satby: I still think we should just….. send him to Mars. Like, now. And if he doesn’t get there…. well, sometimes we gotta make sacrifices for science.
Professor Bigfoot
@WereBear: Well done.
Thats a toughie, I’ve learned, so good on ya
Oh, and GOOD MORNIN’ JACKALTARIAT!
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
Minnesota? Washington? Oregon? Vermont?
Don’t move out of Pittsburgh too fast, okay? My best friend lives there, and I owe her a visit. And I’d love to meet you and Mr. Suzanne, who sounds like a cool guy.
TBone
@Professor Bigfoot: pardon my coffee breath.
Muah!
Jeffg166
I saw Margaret Atwood in an interview say we had three month to stop the felon. If it didn’t happen in the first three months it wouldn’t happen.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
Seconded!
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist: Not moving any time soon. Just here because the client is!
Yes, if you are here, let’s organize a meetup! We have talked about having one multiple times with some of the other western PA and Ohio jackals, and have never made it happen. We probably all need a kick in the ass!
Baud
@Jeffg166:
I have no idea what that means.
But at least I know now when I can give up.
TBone
@lowtechcyclist: thirded, voraciously.
WereBear
@Suzanne: The lure of the North Woods. Read The Wendigo by Algernon Blackwood.
Then decide :)
lowtechcyclist
@Jeffg166:
Yeah, part of the price of any deal needs to be the removal of Elmo’s band of teen and twentysomething IT shock troops from any further access to government facilities, both in person and remotely, and explicitly reducing Elmo’s role to that of an advisor with no authority to hire, fire, or give orders to anyone.
That would still leave us with Russell Vought to deal with, but there’s not much that can be pinned on him just yet, so there’s no leverage to try to get him out of there.
Baud
Via reddit, good for her.
WereBear
@TBone: Then you don’t want to know about her fab new book.
It’s supposed to be “controversial” but it’s not. I completely agree and had agreed with her conclusions, much more broadly of course, for the past several years.
Facts shouldn’t be “controversial.” The corporate press use the words as a pop scare.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Baud:
Social media generally, particularly after a spectacularly awful right wing troll started ragging on friends on an Instagram account where they had me tagged on some fun photos.
I was correct in my assessment of the troll (complete masquerade as a young woman pretending to be from an immigrant population while spewing RWNJ talking points in idiomatic English), but I don’t need people tracking me to do weird stuff like that.
geg6
@Suzanne:
I’m retired now, so I’m pretty free (with exceptions for doctors’ appointments). As long as it is during the day, I can make a meetup. My not-yet-“ripe” cataracts have made me stop driving at night.
Chief Oshkosh
I just sent the following to my Congressperson:
Please tell the Republicans who are begging Democrats for help to pass a budget because they can’t get their own crazy caucus on board: No help with YOUR problem unless the criminal conduct of the White House stops right now. And any deal needs to be enforceable.
I sent this to my Senators:
Please tell your House colleagues who are dealing with Republicans who are begging Democrats for help to pass a budget because they can’t get their own crazy caucus on board: No help with YOUR problem unless the criminal conduct of the White House stops right now. And any deal needs to be enforceable.
Layer8Problem
@WereBear: After that read Blackwood’s The Willows, in case anyone here has the urge to go boating on the Danube in Hungary.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Good indeed!
And not just Russia and North Korea, also Iran.
Iran’s effectively on Russia’s side, since they’re supplying Russia with drones and stuff. So now we’re on the same side as Iran. I think mentioning that might raise some hackles even among *some* of the MAGAts. (Most of them will still go along with whatever Dear Leader wants, of course.)
Suzanne
@geg6: That would be really fun once the weather gets nicer. I can do daytime on a weekend. Would be fun to have a meetup on a patio somewhere!
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Don’t hit me with those negative vibes so early in the morning, man.
I encourage people to contact their reps about this THIS MORNING. I agree with Josh, this may very well be important. I’ll worry about what the Supremes may or may not do at another time.
TBone
@WereBear: oh, I still read her every day, just not first thing anymore. I have to brace myself first now. There is nothing I don’t want to know about from her.
TBone
@Chief Oshkosh: first things first is a good rule of thumb.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
The best thing that could happen is allowing people to sue Musk directly for misconduct IMHO. Don’t think they can get that however.
TBone
@Layer8Problem: I do have that urge, but not in Hungary!
ColoradoGuy
I hope the Democrats demand the removal of remote-monitoring devices from Federal computers, as well as the permanent removal of Musk’s teen gang of hackers.
The remote-monitoring is an ongoing violation of very serious Federal laws pertaining to data privacy, gross misuse of expensive Federal property, and unauthorized, non-cleared personnel accessing Federal data and programming.
The penalties for violating these laws are years in prison, not just fines, and Trump’s get-out-of-jail card does not extend to his cronies and “friends”. Otherwise, we might just as well invite the Russians to run our government, and bypass Congress and the Supreme Court.
TBone
@Baud: the largest class action suit EVAH.
Professor Bigfoot
@Suzanne: Count me in– I’m basically available almost anytime, outside of various healthcare stuffs.
geg6
@Suzanne:
Agreed! Somewhere by the rivers would be great. I love sitting on a patio and having a nice meal and drinks and having the river traffic going by.
Layer8Problem
@Chief Oshkosh: “Always with the negative waves Moriarty . . . ”
Not you, Baud.
TBone
@TBone: variation on a theme, with math! Liftoff!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sf3MPzYSPxw
Another Scott
I trust Jeffries and Schumer and their caucuses to do the best possible under the circumstances. If the monsters have the votes to burn everything down, well Democracy means that majority rules and they can do that and the country will suffer for it.
And the monsters will loose the next elections and then we start the process of rebuilding. And that rebuilding may take generations with further setbacks.
We must not help the monsters. We must, though, find ways to peel off those who can help us defeat the monsters.
It’s going to be messy and ugly and infuriating. We have to give our team the space to do the best they can given the circumstances. (No, that doesn’t mean that we can’t yell at them. Productive yelling can help. But Democrats aren’t gutting the federal government, the monsters are.)
Hang in there, everyone. Eyes on the prizes.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Suzanne
@Professor Bigfoot: Yeah yeah, for sure! I’m probably the hardest one to plan around. Work, kids’ activities, etc. Things get calmer in the summer.
satby
OT: beautiful red dawn as I Amtrak to Kansas City from Topeka on my way home to Chicago. Sun rising, coffee strong, all quiet. Ready for whatever happens.
Baud
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Until social media finds a way to deal with toxicity, we’re in for a bad time.
Same with people generally. Cable news really isn’t much better.
WereBear
@Layer8Problem: I just read that last week! So he has been much on my mind.
Now infiltrated kayaking AND hiking, my two favorites.
Peachy.
Baud
@satby:
Happy riding.
TBone
@satby: #47 theme continuation ☀️☕
Professor Bigfoot
@Another Scott: So do I; but we are pretty unique in actually believing in Democrats and supporting them.
WereBear
@satby: That lovely image made me go make coffee. Best to you.
satby
@Baud: @WereBear: thanks! Nice visit with friends near Phoenix, birthday dinner with dear friend who also flew in, and a smooth ride home, though not without it’s little dramas. There’s still joy to be had.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
Speak for yourself. I only believe in me.
JerseyBeard
Morning all. I know this has been mentioned in the Sunday morning garden chats but I can’t find the post for the life of me. Can anyone recommend a good online flower seed store?
Layer8Problem
@WereBear: Then my work here is done! Try M. R. James as well if you haven’t already.
NotMax
@TBone
“A class action suit against us? Pfeh. We have no class.”
//
satby
@Baud: it’s a fine line between no content moderation and a heavy hand gutting discussion. I don’t think anyone’s figured it out yet. Certainly not here either.
TBone
@NotMax: gee willikers!
(I don’t know where that came from. I appreciate snark especially yours and I feel like cussing but it’s too sunny in my world so far today. Thanks for additional rays!)
Run on…🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2QhcSmvF6Ag
Chief Oshkosh
@Layer8Problem: You got it.
satby
@JerseyBeard: Ozark used to use Baker’s Creek, but they’ve recently been outed as very MAGA ☹️
I’ve mostly used Park Seed or Gurneys
Also Burpee’s and maybe Proven Winners (where lots of nurseries get their stock)
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: I believe in you too!
TBone
I have to appear in person at my bank to cash in a CD today. I hope to avoid their spotty-past-record investment advisor, who always tries to hijack me. He’s not my cuppa T!
The interest helps pay for Noah’s long inpatient hospital stay and weekly $ checkups.
Professor Bigfoot
@TBone: Bonne chance, ma cher.
Don’t nobody need that kind of annoyance.
NotMax
@TBone
Workin’ the kinks out.
Sunny is as sunny does .;)
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Blocking and/or 🤐 are the way to go.
TBone
@Professor Bigfoot: if I had a sharkskin suit, I’d wear it today! And ask him if he wants to buy a used car hahahaha…
I adore you, especially when you speak French to me, rowr!
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: I followed that Jasmine Crockett tweet over to Twitter and the comments on it… man, that place is an absolute cesspool.
satby
In the early morning thread Thin Black Duke and I were chatting about Phil Ochs. For me, his best song is this one, but the Duke prefers this one. Both excellent.
schrodingers_cat
@satby: How long did the trip take? I 💕 Chicago.
lowtechcyclist
@geg6:
That would be terrific!
My friend’s birthday is in late April, maybe I’ll come up there for a few days including a weekend, and we can figure out a time for a meetup then.
TBone
@NotMax: perfection suits you.
satby
@schrodingers_cat: well, it makes for a less stressful experience, but not sure that’s the entire solution. Active bot management software would help.
Professor Bigfoot
@satby: But how do you differentiate between a bot’s posts and a particularly stupid human’s?
I am not sure there IS an automated solution that can do that.
(and of course, in the tradition of human warfare if you come up with that measure, someone will come up with a countermeasure. And it IS warfare. )
TBone
@NotMax: just a song before I go…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu2ps6pqxv8
ELLA
satby
@schrodingers_cat: Normally, about 33-34 hours. You can move about the train, go to the observation or dining cars, and the seats are comfy enough to sleep in if you’re a budget traveler like me. Rooms are expensive, but if you’re traveling with a partner it becomes comparable to airfare and includes all meals on board. I like it, but after 33 hours I’m ready to get home. You can’t beat the scenery though.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: I do too. Jeffries has been in DSA cross hairs for a long time.
Geminid
Someone in the overnight thread suggested there would be another 90-day continuing resolution. That would raise the stakes for sure, because the Debt Ceiling question could be very acute by then. We might also be slipping into a recession.
Last Friday, Senate Republicans passed their budget plan.Speaker Johnson is praying for passage of a House Republican bill this week. Yesterday Capitol Hill reporter Jamie Dupree posted:
Jaime Dupree also posted a screenshot from a note from Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Democratic Representatives:
satby
@Professor Bigfoot: agree. Bot sentinel was one I used on Twitter, but it only gave the probability of a nym being a bit, it didn’t nuke it. That was on you to do.
NotMax
@TBone
I’m hep.
;)
TBone
@NotMax: MUAH I’ve always known that!
satby
My friend Howard just announced breakfast in the dining car. Later!
NotMax
@satby
Last name Johnson by any chance?
/showing my age again :)
p.a.
@satby: Took the Crescent NYC/NOLA 1991 & 1995, ’91 round trip ’95 fly down, train back (a nice recovery trip after NO stupidity (I was in my 30’s)). First trip going south, N Alabama, there really are housetrailers with multiple trucks up on blocks with one good truck & a really nice bass boat. At the time usually Ranger or Skeeter. At that time the crescent had a dining car (not any more.). Yum!
Shalimar
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/sam-bankman-fried-s-long-dormant-x-account-is-alive-again-and-posting-about-doge-and-leadership-advice/ar-AA1zJcbm?ocid=socialshare&pc=U531&cvid=921c820787ec40c2e93d0ac8b3581702&ei=7
From the article:
There is no evidence whatsoever provided by DOGE that a single person they fired was sitting around doing nothing, but sure, let’s hear what a 32-year-old disgraced gamergater has to say about current events. The one thing he does know is how to steal billions from people, so he is an expert in whatever the fuck it is Elon’s doing.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Right. How the fuck would she know anything of the sort?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@satby: Will you be going through St. Louis?
catclub
This. One thing federal employees DO know is: “who is in my chain of command. ” Musk is not.
Michael Bersin
Oh, FFS.
Mark Alford (r) on CNN last night:
“…Now this is serious business we’re talking about. And that’s why I went in and, and faced the people who, who don’t want me in office and, and some who wanted, I think, to do me harm. That’s why we had a SWAT team and, and many police there. Um, and I can take that. But I take this serious, because this, this the survival of our nation and I don’t think people understand what a severe point we are…”
There was a class of local high school students in attendance with their teacher. And, one of the students is an exchange student from Ukraine. They asked some of the most pointed questions.
Self-important snowflake is apparently afraid of listening to his constituents.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Isn’t she Canadian?
MazeDancer
Albany-Times Union reports Lt Gov Delgado has announced he won’t seek reelection and may run against Hochul
frosty
@Suzanne: Ha ha. Wait, did you bring your passport?
p.a.
@catclub:
Whoever falsely represents himself to be an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, and in such assumed character arrests or detains any person or in any manner searches the person, buildings, or other property of any person, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.
18 USC Ch. 43: FALSE PERSONATION – U.S. Code
House.gov
https://uscode.house.gov › view › part1 › chapter43
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
@satby:
I don’t get why after all these years people haven’t learned that they can’t assume that they are interacting with real sincere humans on social media.
Geminid
@WereBear: VoteVets has been active in Virginia. They played a big part in my Representive’s election. That would be Eugene Vindman, who replaced Abigail Spanberger in the 7th CD.
Spanberger’s running for Governor, and VoteVets just gave her campaign $500,000. And VoteVets doesn’t just raise and spend money. They organized at least one campaign event for Vindman.
NotMax
@Baud
It’s a series of rubes.
//
Baud
@NotMax:
You win.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: MAGAs and tankies are following the BJP IT cell playbook, it seems. Hating on Ds is the quickest ticket to popularity on social media.
frosty
@Chief Oshkosh: Thanks. I have an R Congressman so I can’t do much there. I copied your Senate message and sent it to Fetterman.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: loose -> lose.
Ack.
Best wishes,
Scott.
frosty
@Suzanne: I’m still up for a meetup!
WereBear
@TBone: As they say, just arrive loaded for bear.
WereBear
@frosty: I don’t even have a congressperson! Elise Stefanik’s phone just rings and rings.
Matt McIrvin
@Professor Bigfoot: The bots, of course, get better and better. Usually you can only tell if there’s a wider pattern to observe–for instance, there was that bot on Bluesky that just started responding to thousands of random threads with posts disagreeing in a polite but slightly peevish way with whatever they were saying (using an LLM to make the response look appropriate and natural). Any given response could be mistaken for a person, but notice this happening in dozens of threads and you realize that someone is using a bot to stir shit.
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: I saw the funniest protest sign Friday. Someone posted video from a demonstration that day, of about 80 people marching back and forth in front Hakeem Jeffries’ Brooklyn office. One was a carrying a sign that read:
p.a.
Local news spot on RI Attorney General Peter Neronha & RI joining with other Blue State AGs initiating lawsuits against tRumpism, & how the Blue AGs began planning moves on 51 issues in June ’24 in case tRumpenstein won.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
sixthdoctor
Trump, 78, Shows Mysterious Large Bruise on Hand
Good news, everyone! Maybe he’ll start to fall apart like Vincent D’onofrio in Men In Black.
kalakal
@Shalimar: He’s also increasing his knowledge of sitting around doing nothing on a daily basis, and hopefully for many years to come
WereBear
@Professor Bigfoot:
I don’t see how it matters. Why listen to either of them? That’s part of what AI has been about, seems to me.
TBone
@satby:
frosty
@lowtechcyclist: I could make April work for a meetup. I don’t have any other travel plans until July.
NotMax
@sixthdoctor
It only appears large in relation to the size of the hand.
//
TBone
@NotMax: mmmmm fried clams and Jacques!
TBone
@NotMax: LOL!
TBone
@p.a.: sweet!
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
TBone
@WereBear: 💜💋
JerseyBeard
@satby: thank you!
Chris Johnson
@schrodingers_cat: Heh, is he? I’m all the happier I’ve been coming to his defense.
I do not trust the DSA. Back in the day when I posted under a different nym everybody hated and worked for Bernie and saw some things up close that took years to figure out, I even joined the DSA.
Never made it to a meeting, and the newsletters they sent were not impressive, but also weren’t dead giveaways that they were bad actors. And yet. I don’t trust ’em. I think Putin has far too many people in there, and I’m more likely to trust Hakeem Jeffries with his civics book for kids, than them.
But then it seems like me trusting people is some kind of big deal, like it matters. In THIS day and age? For a person who got suckered in to Dirtbag Left and ran away when he saw the intensity and determination of the social engineering on places like r/chapotraphouse? Damn right I don’t trust people, as a rule. There’s a reason for that.
Also, I work in the music business XD
TBone
@Michael Bersin: jfc
frosty
@lowtechcyclist: I sent your next to last paragraph to my R rep. Thanks for the language. Worth a shot!
NotMax
@TBone
Cute anecdote about the real Howard Johnson (26:48 – 27:20).
TBone
@Chris Johnson: proud to know ya! I had an almost similar trajectory but was interrupted sooner.
TBone
@NotMax: that gives me chutzpah for my bank run today, thank you! Bio dad used to pick up me & little bro for visitation when we wuz wee and always we went to HoJo so it’s like a Proust event for me. I can still smell it.
TBone
Mebbe hot shower can do what coffee failed to do. I need to chew on a power line again. Sleep deprivation leaves me wondering if I can still sign my own name today.
You betcher ass I can!
tobie
@JerseyBeard: I use Fedco Seeds. They have incredible variety. Renee’s Garden seeds always do well.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: For all those years you could pretty well tell; but now we’re segueing into the era of AI bullshit and it’s only gonna get harder and harder.
One’s only real defense now is assume it’s a malicious botnet until you’re convinced it isn’t.
We need to cultivate cynicism and skepticism.
ETA- they do not remember the ancient (in internet terms) adage, “On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog?”
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: It might get me in trouble to note this one thing: both of those factions are almost entirely white.
Another Scott
@sixthdoctor: He’s an old man, and most of the press is doing their best to hide that from us (for the clicks and “engagement”).
I’m still curious why I seem to be the only person that noticed what appears to be a bottle of Pedialyte off his left should in that famous picture from November.
There’s also that remark from Omarosa a while ago saying “ask him about his stent”…
Grr…
Best wishes,
Scott.
LAC
Good morning:
Glad to see some push back from agencies against Adderal Nazi’s emails. However much I hate government shutdowns, this one might do some necessary damage. And hearing more MAGA whining as a result will be grimly satisfying. Yeah, I have been perfecting my “Oh, well” face since January.
satby
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I think so? At least briefly. We’re sidelined waiting for a freight to clear before Kansas City MO right now. But I shared breakfast with a nice elderly Amish couple, so that was fun.
I took Amtrak because they put the USA rail pass on sale for $299 again this January, and flights to Phoenix were running $500+. So, taking a run down to NOLO after Mardi Gras for a couple of days just to use more of my ticket up.
no body no name
@satby:
The issue with big social media is that if you get rid of the bots, the hostility, the toxicity, the hate, and I’m not just talking about Nazis here, it fails and implodes. That’s what draws people there.
People aren’t paying attention to the sites you think they are as well. There are younger sites and apps. One of the reasons AOC and Omar are so massively successful is they play a different game. They are both young enough they know the areas the olds don’t go to. They actually stream themselves playing games on those platforms. They do not really talk about social issues while doing this. Everyone knows where they stand so why open that can of worms and create “they only care about social issues” as a real issue. Rather they talk about games and how some people are all crooks and, not their words, shit lords. It works! Omar might be a black Muslim terror to many but she had men’s rights activists complimenting her on the choices of the gaming PC she built and agreeing with her about the crooks on the right!
The hostility isn’t there either. AOC could talk to Bernie supporters as a Bernie protege about not liking to vote for something but still having to do it and nobody roasted her or flamed her. People can all agree that the Gaza situation was not excusable but really nobody has a clue what to do about it. Even the landmine of trans rights isn’t that dangerous. What you’ll largely get is “it scares me”, “I don’t understand it but I really don’t care either”, “I don’t know why people keep picking on them”, “I fully support it but I’m squeamish of kids surgeries”, to “I fully support all of it and think we haven’t gone far enough” and nobody argues or spews venom.
It’s not just AOC and Omar that engage in these areas but they are the big names who tried it from politics.
Maybe the games and younger age group is the key here? Because people are really there to see if you can game. Which allows the conversation to happen. Vin Diesel and Henry Cavil are also huge as they are openly online about D&D and Warhammer which instantly bought them cred with people who disliked them. Comparatively Elon Musk got bullied into a corner by right wingers and his own cult for cheating a video games.
This has been a bit of a rant but if we are looking for strategies to bring people onto our side or at least reach people it is happening in those areas. Even if you don’t win them over they have a good time. And if the conversation in the chat does take a turn for the awful it’s only a matter of time till something crazy happens in game and the conversation is instantly memory holed and everyone is laughing and getting along again.
Maybe there is something to work with here for a social media stance?
Geminid
@Chris Johnson: There were some hard feelings generated when Hakeem Jeffries beat Barbara Lee in the election for Caucus Chair in November, 2018. The former Chaiman was Joe Crowley, who had lost his primary to Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez.
There was a secret ballot, and Jeffries won by 121 to 111. Both Lee and Jeffries were members of the Progressive Caucus, but Jeffries was considered the “Establishment” candidate while Rep. Lee was a particular hero to many on the left side of the Party. Some of them have held grudges ever since.
Professor Bigfoot
@WereBear: TRUE DAT!
I just don’t see any automated way to filter the one and permit the other- not that we’d actually LISTEN to the latter, but “who knows? Maybe the horse will sing!”
Jeffro
it is
he’s selling our country out to whomever will flatter him the most.
that, and lining his pockets, are literally his only principles
satby
@NotMax: 😄
Quiltingfool
I just got a quilt commission requiring a variety of orange print fabrics. This means I need to go fabric shopping (the only kind of shopping I adore, lol).
I figured I’d trot down to Springfield (MO) and hit all the fabric stores, including JoAnns. And guess what? All JoAnn stores will be closing – bankruptcy problems. Not sure how much stock they’ll have, but I’ll give it a whirl.
Why oh why couldn’t it have been Hobby Lobby going bankrupt? To my utter shame, I did buy some fabric and fusibles there a month ago, I was desperate and didn’t want to drive to Springfield. I did find what I wanted at a decent price, but still. I felt like a huge hypocrite for giving them a dime of my money.
The store was shabby and kind of tacky. Scads of home decor, lots of Christian themed tchotchkes and kitchen ware, not much in the fabric section. There were fewer people shopping than at Joann’s (when it was open here). It was on a weekday morning, though.
lowtechcyclist
@satby:
Wow, that’s cheap!! I bought a USA rail pass back in 1987 and went across the country and back on it, and it was $299 back then!
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: It might. But good on you for saying it out loud.
UncleEbeneezer
@no body no name: Very interesting and it makes sense. As much as we often see it as part of our marching orders to go make every space political (because everything really IS political) it’s very true that people with totally different worldviews can get along in spaces that are apolitical and focussed on a shared interest/love. And that there are tremendous opportunities to slowly move people to better positions, understanding, etc. In fact, I think this is basically what people like Harris, Biden, Obama, Hillary mean when they urge us to meet our Republicans somewhere in the middle. It’s not to co-sign the worst of MAGA, but to do the slow, patient work of trying to bring people along in spaces where they’ve let down their guard and are somewhat more willing to listen.
LAC
@Quiltingfool: i am going to miss our local Joann’s stores in MD as they are all slated to be closed. I have been getting my painting supplies there. I guess I better stock up and I think the online presence will still be there.
UncleEbeneezer
After a false start yesterday (I misread the FedEx Ground tracking info) it look like the crux of my new drum kit will arrive today!! Very excited although I won’t be able to actually tune it, set it up and play etc. until next weekend. But I feel like I’m getting a big part of my identity back. Soon I can actually start trying to jam with other musicians. Had about an hourlong phone chat with a another guitarist/drummer who plays all over town and knows everybody (he also seems very liberal) the other day and can’t wait to play with him.
TS
@Baud:
“sick” is just the start. Impossible to believe in my lifetime, the US standing with Russia. Dismay, horror, unbelievable, insanity.
ChrisJohnson
@Suzanne: Minnesota?
Shalimar
@Professor Bigfoot: Noting that white men in particular generally suck won’t get you in trouble. The vast majority of people here agree, even the white men. It’s accusing specific highly respected for a long time members of the community of being racist over and over that gets you in trouble.
zhena gogolia
@Quiltingfool: I sent watergirl my info
LAC
@no body no name: Tha is interesting…but do book tours count as outreach as well? Since what AOC and Omar are doing in that PC gaming realm could be seen as an update on outreach.
Just wondering…
satby
@Baud: I can’t either. Or that the backstory any individual gives us an accurate one without some additional corroboration. People want to believe in others. Not sure distrusting everyone is an improvement. I’m in the trust, but verify camp myself.
Baud
@satby:
I hear you. I still can’t believe how long I’ve been able to fool you people despite all the signs.
lowtechcyclist
@Shalimar:
Could you kindly give a for-instance of this? While he doesn’t let us look past the role that racism plays in our society and our politics, I’ve missed the part where he accused anyone here in particular of being racist. And there’s a big difference between those two things.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
I shoulda noticed, since an AI bot doesn’t need pants.
Elizabelle
@Baud: You know, I have always wondered. Always. LOL.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: If only all bots achieved Baudiness!
TBone
Short, morale-boosting film about how to throw sand in the gears 💀
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ghuntBvDKLE
Disable closed captioning ferchrissakes
satby
@no body no name: it’s as good as any other, at least to reach gamers. But wide swathes of people neither game nor do social media. We need multiple avenues to reach people. I disagree about this though:
It that was true people wouldn’t keep trying to set up new, nicer sites. There’s a real desire for interaction about many subjects without hostility.
satby
@lowtechcyclist: they put it on sale most Januarys, but not always at such a great discount. Last year it was only $50 off IIRC. I’ll end up wasting more than 1/2 the pass, but I’ll have gotten more than my money’s worth.
Edit: plus sustainable travel, low carbon, and I like to help demonstrate there’s a need for more rail service.
Elizabelle
More seriously, the meetups (and Zooms!) have helped this site immensely to reassure there are actual humans out there, however quirky. I do not doubt we have some fakes here, but quite a lot of genuine and sincere jackals.
I think Subaru Dianne might have instigated the first meetups? I know she came to DC area, and we hung out with the late and always missed efgoldman.
Elizabelle
@Another Scott: Well, that’s a table full of toxic, uh, masculinity. All the devils are present. A lot of them, anyway.
Interesting catch on the Pedialyte. I cannot tell, but maybe.
satby
@lowtechcyclist: thank you.
Jeffg166
@WereBear:
It’s a start. The minute all the polls agree the felon’s popularity is in the toilet is the only thing that may give him pause.
Like I have said we never had a dictatorship before as we have never had a military coup before or a popular uprising to overthrow a corrupt government.
Professor Bigfoot
@Shalimar: I don’t accuse people of “intentional racism,” I try to tell people they need to look at how “whiteness” and “white supremacy” affect the decisions they take and the beliefs they carry.
I ask white people to do the same thing I have to do as a MAN in this patriarchal society— examine how my maleness has advantaged me, and wired into me reactions and beliefs that exist below the level of conscious thought.
THAT will evoke white fragility.
TBone
@Professor Bigfoot: just keep on sticking it to The Man!
Jeffg166
@Baud:
I think she was saying the coup will have been completed in three months and prying them of the government would be impossible for quite a while.
If they do manage to get complete control to subjugate the population or could take a decade or more for them to go so far no one will feel like they have anything left to lose in overthrowing them.
Professor Bigfoot
@satby: Absolutely this— and to add that it’s just too damned easy to set up botnets anymore. Moore’s Law seems to be in effect in that newer technology pushes capabilities downhill, to make them cheaper and easier.
Other than cultivating cynicism and taking an assumption of malice until evidence of the contrary to ones own satisfaction is seen… and man, ain’t that a bitch?
Belafon
@lowtechcyclist: I may have misread, obviously, but I took that as the royal you not the specific you.
We need to bring back thou.
Soonergrunt
I really do not want the government to shut down (for obvious reasons) but as a political matter, the Dems should withold their support and the only thing given to the press corpse should be “we will not assist the Republicans in any way until they stop the illegal activities of Donald Trump and Elon Musk. They could have a budget today if they did their jobs, with or without us.” And then walk away without taking questions, except for maybe AOC and a couple of the other young ones.
John S.
@lowtechcyclist:
Try Google. Here’s a query you can use.
Found one on the first link fairly quickly. There’s tons of other examples.
no body no name
@UncleEbeneezer:
Ostensibly people are there to game or watch someone game. And that holds up and that is the point. It’s a fun time and everyone is there for that. But if someone has some sort of status it’s also there to check if they are a fake or not. But the focus is the game.
Invariably other conversations happen around this. But since everyone is entirely focused on “hey, we love this, this our hobby, and we are here for that” nobody is going to jump your nuts about saying something wrong, or using the wrong terms, or being in the outgroup. Because that’s not the focus. And people are going to let shit slide the normally wouldn’t. They’re also willing to listen to you because we all have this thing we love and that’s the grounds.
So the conversations about topics that are normally confrontational are in the background. They don’t take the focus. And more or less people can live and let live with them because nobody is screaming and shooting, the “you suck and fail at life” is reserved for a bad play in game and laughed off as that’s how people talk in game. Git Gud Noob.
You also see things you’d never think. People who outright rage hate people will stick up for them if they are on a roll in game against people trying to distract them.
The problem with “meet them in the middle” is that phrase fucking sucks goat scrotum. That could be policy or whatever where people aren’t going to budge. Meeting people where they are is better. If a conversation happens in the background and everyone is happy with what they are doing and get along on that it happens. If it doesn’t it doesn’t. But everyone had fun and will be back and things move from there. Sans the confrontation people are vastly more open to admit shit they normally wouldn’t, slag their own side, and just generally have a laugh. Shit sucks, people suck, we suck, but we are all having fun and loving this thing right now is an amazing way to actually have a conversation that doesn’t devolve into “you are evil and I want you dead”.
I have friends that I cannot have an in person, text, or phone call with about anything political because it will devolve into the most bitter fight ever. I can have them over for gaming night and have the exact same conversation in the background without it getting crazy and everyone shutting down. All of a sudden everyone stops being a radical and starts being human.
Kirk
@WereBear: I agree. I don’t particularly try to watch for bots. I just use a simple test for those messages.
Do you consistently lie about the things I know are true?
Do you try to sell me things?
If either are true, I’m not reading what you write.
Chris Johnson
@Shalimar: That’s the trick, though. We’re all people, and you have to be the Porsche whisperer.
I was in an exchange with a black Bluesky user and got put through the wringer, only got through because I was able to be socially sophisticated enough and play along. as an autistic person that’s a huge victory!
She’d been appreciating Johnny Cash’s version of ‘Hurt’. I forget exactly how it started but I said something about how it was a great window into white thinking (which I still think that song’s power is the things that SUCK about being really white as all hell) and…
Next thing you know, it’s ‘no he’s not. You don’t get Johnny Cash. He’s ours. You can have Elvis’. not Trent, mind you! So, argue?
No, I went ‘aw man! How is that fair? D: ‘
‘I don’t make the rules’ she replies, not giving an inch.
Next, she jumps into a ‘drop something WHITE’ thread with a big picture of Candace Owens (!) Argue?
No, I went ‘Can we decline Candace? Geez, Elvis and now Candace, how is that fair D: ‘
‘NOPE!’ and another #blacksky poster jumps in, going ‘she’s y’all’s now, we’re taking Bernie.’
Argue? Go ‘NOW YOU’VE GONE TOO FAR’?
Nah, I went ‘ D: D: D: D: DUDE D: ‘ and it kept going. ‘Tell you what we’ll throw in one more person!’ (probably Drake!). Then ‘They already have Kanye. Now they’re just being greedy’
I’m sure it’s very white of me to be spelling it out like that but by then they were laughing… and the whole point is, autistic me was able to pick up the rules and knew what was going on. I’m not supposed to break it down and analyse it like that but I’m white and also autistic and so it comes naturally to nerd out, but the point being, that was a kind of friendship, getting relentlessly ragged on.
The dark side is I’ve seen white people rag on a Spanish friend exactly the same way but in an openly racist way.
You have to be the Porsche whisperer: beyond that, the question is who’s ragging on you, how serious are they, is it in fun or is it dead serious, is that line blurry? And do the people really think their Spanish friend is gonna steal something, does the poster really think you’re an evil man out to harm dark people.
It’s a hell of a thing. This is why trollage daunts me so much. It’s SO easy to fuck up humans’ interactions with each other. We be frail, brittle.
FDRLincoln
Today’s phone calls:
Voice mails left for Senators Marshall and Moran (Kansas), asking them if they support Trump’s betrayal of Ukraine.
Called Congressman Tracey Mann, spoke to an intern at the DC office, left message about how my disabled son is dependent on Medicaid and that if Mann really supports average Kansans, he will not vote to cut Medicaid. “I will pass your concerns along to the Congressman” said the friendly intern.
Professor Bigfoot
@lowtechcyclist: I’m afraid some white people, even here, are unwilling to grapple with whiteness and how it affects and even determines their own lives subconscously.
Those who are, of course, are the way I’ve become about the Patriarchy: man, once you see that shit, YOU SEE IT EVERY FUCKING WHERE.
Once you SEE it.
Belafon
@Professor Bigfoot: I have gotten to where, every time I hear people talk about some actress from the 90s or earlier being hard to work with, I’m like “Have you heard about Marlon Brando, about how hard he was to work with? No. I suspect what you’re hearing is that those women wouldn’t put up with the stuff other women would.”
LAC
@John S.: Tthank God I didn’t have coffee on my mouth. You think you’re the highly respected long time commenter? And you might want to put some context in that you were constantly slagging him off. I mean c’mon man…
Glory b
@lowtechcyclist: I live in Pittsburgh too! What am I, chopped liver??
Lol
no body no name
@satby:
The new sites pop up because the youngs run from the olds. Once your parents get to it or your grand parents that site must be abandoned. For anybody under 40. That’s why they have to keep buying sites. Techies, then youngs, then famous people, then adds, then olds. Then it’s done and then you get Nazis as your only income.
It’s a cycle. I’m right on the X vs M barrier. My younger relatives are Z and younger and I see the same patterns. The young will always bolt to the next thing once the olds show up except the Nazi young which means that site must use Nazis and bots to exist and then buy the next thing.
There is no way around this.
The few large platforms that sort of survive this trend are dedicated to something which doesn’t politic. Like Twitch. Twitch is all about gaming. So if an old shows up it’s an old who is really good at classic games and never says anything political and creates a huge following and if something spins out of that it happens. But aol, yahoo groups, myspace, facebook, and more all turned Nazi once older generations got there and thus the liberal youngs fled.
There are conversations out there that bring people to our side. But they are happening on spaces you don’t inhabit. And if you did the entire thing would boomerang. Everyone gettable would run and you’d be stuck with another Nazi site.
I have tiktok but I stay off of it because as someone in their 40s who’s not famous even my being there is way to old to not risk it going toxic. If you’re older than me, lol don’t touch. For what I can do online I focus narrowly on where communities I’m a part of exist actively and I do not engage in politics other than to snipe in with comments. I’ve pulled a few people to my side of thinking mostly because they got gaming and painting tips from me and I never said liberal/democrat/progressive or any words. I’m just a guy who does gaming speed runs and plays competitively and is still good at it for my age.
Engage where you can.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Professor Bigfoot: I had an oddly similar experience in Athens, one time when I crossed paths with a Golden Dawn (local neo-Nazi party, since outlawed as a criminal organization in the wake of the assassination of a popular pro-immigrant rapper) rally denouncing all immigrants and calling for their deportation or worse. I realized then that I’d lost a lot of my privilege because I was one of the people whose blood the nativists were calling to be spilled, but that I still had some privilege in that I could pass for a native … as long as I kept my mouth shut and didn’t let my accent betray me.
I have a bad feeling a lot of Trumpists will never achieve that epiphany.
UncleEbeneezer
@Shalimar: Black People (and their allies) have good reason to take offense at White Progressives constantly trying throw their beloved politicians under the bus as a way of hijacking/asserting dominance of our coalition. There’s a long history of White People (especially Progressives) feeling entitled to constantly erase Black People’s voices and votes whenever they don’t like them or think they aren’t perfect enough:
• Primary Obama!- 2012
• Encouraging Superdelegates to choose Bernie (despite Hillary beating his ass in the primary, soundly on the backs of Black Voters)- 2016
• Insinuating that Jim Clyburn unfairly stole the nomination from Bernie by endorsing Biden- 2020
• Bashing Biden relentlessly from 2020-2024 on every issue imaginable.
• Trying to push Biden aside after the debate, while Black People were mostly like: this is a terrible idea, we voted for Biden for a reason. If you do this: A.) it better fucking work, B.) we don’t wanna hear anything but positivity about Harris (and Biden) going forward and C.) if it doesn’t work, we will not forgive you anytime soon for this bullshit. -2024
• Biden steps aside and White Progressives pivot right back to calling Kamala names, calling her pro-Genocide, protesting her and/or defending those who did all of the above.- 2024
Trump wins…
• White Progressives go right back to: constantly shitting on Dems, calling Harris a bad candidate, shitting on Biden’s presidency and calling to “Primary
ObamaHakeem Jeffries!” And then when Black People tell us how fucked up, unhelpful and disrespectful that is, White People circle the wagons, pat them on the head and demand that they move on, get over it etc. (even though they warned us in July that no, they would not just move on). It’s patronizing and condescending AF. It’s prioritizing White feelings over Black ones: White People can be forever mad about (Dem politician who isn’t Progressive enough) but Black People aren’t allowed to be mad about us tanking their politicians and putting their lives/rights at risk.The pattern is clear as day. We (White People in the Dem coalition) are happy for Black Voters energy, loyalty etc., that is the only reason Dems EVER have a chance to win, but when the politicians they support (because they can win) aren’t progressive enough, we are way too willing to destroy them. You can’t look at anything recent like MM’s departure, in isolation. It is part of a longer trend/story and can’t be separated from that.
Kamala Harris ran a damn-near perfect campaign and was everything we could want in a candidate/President. The fact that so many White Progressives still couldn’t resist the urge to fucking demonize her, is exactly why Black People don’t trust us.
p.a.
I don’t know about formal vs familiar, but English really does need differentiated 2nd person s & p pronouns. Y’all and youse (yinz?) need to be considered legitimate English. AmerEnglish at least.
Pittsburgh Mike
The Democrats should definitely refuse to fund the government until all these layoffs are reversed, and DOGE is sent packing.
And of course, a promise from these folks is worth nothing by itself, so the funding agreement should expire after 3 months, so that if Trump gets the idea of breaking his word, the Democrats will have an opportunity to quickly strike back.
Professor Bigfoot
@UncleEbeneezer:
Pittsburgh Mike
@Baud: No, not if you continue the funding for only 3 months.
Chief Oshkosh
@frosty: Hey, an R congressperson gets paid with your tax dollars and is your representative. It can’t hurt to let him know what you think.
TBone
WQSU radio and me – always remember who the old man might be calling, Jethro! Bring me my tonic!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CKjdIqcEbRo
I left the bank unaccosted!
Now I’m on to Fantasy on Porgy & Bess on our local public radio. Lovely Gershwin!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Tesla sales:
Everybody’s talking ’bout it as it continues the trend first noted in Dec. Although it’s the WSJ (this is unpaywalled), it provides the general consensus of many contributing factors to the drop off:
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp500-nasdaq-02-25-2025/card/tesla-sales-crashed-45-in-europe-last-month-why–rN16mAmnn2WHYMvXWyya
My uninformed hot take (can’t be a BJ commentator without the ability to do that on a daily basis) is that we might be seeing a perfect storm of events: the cited market reasons (product line, time of year, increased product competition) and blowback from Edolph being Edolph only now New and Improved! because of his Federal Presence!
It’ll be interesting to see full US numbers which doesn’t happen until the end of the first quarter because GM only releases quarterly sales data. That being said, we have sales data from CA where almost 25% of new car sales in Jan were EVs (what I don’t know is if they’re considering plug-in electric hybrids as part of the general “EV” category):
https://insideevs.com/news/750076/tesla-sales-tanking-globally/
Tesla saw an 11.6% decline in CA sales in Jan. Most of the same reasons cited above are being listed as the reason.
Another market data point that reinforces analyst’s consensus on this not necessarily being a backlash for political reasons is Tesla sales in China, they dropped 11.5% there and most people don’t think Chinese consumers care much about Edolph’s extra curricular gubmint activities. And China is the world’s biggest market for EVs and hybrids (all outlined in the linked piece).
Finally, that piece raises a good point that it’s hard to figure out empirically what, if any, effect, Edolph’s having on Tesla sales. We’ll see.
Reboot
Just called VA 6 Rep Ben Cline’s local office. Pretty sure I dialed the right number and got that piercing fax squeal. Doublechecked in case I’d dialed the fax line by mistake, and got the same result. Guess I’ll try the DC office next.
JML
@UncleEbeneezer: Preach.
The Purity Left would rather be right than win and have consistently made perfect the enemy of good for decades. It took about 45 second after Biden was pushed off for people to start up with “Kamala is a Kop” and the same kinds of attacks they made against Biden.
Now, I’m not so foolish as to stand here and say “Biden would have won”; we don’t know that and the same anti-incumbency winds that hurt Harris badly had been dragging Biden down for months (it wasn’t just him being old; that was the excuse, not really the cause). But the Purity Police didn’t help, just like they’ve never helped.
One of my black friends who I worked in politics with was reduced nearly to tears after getting lectured about how there was still no real difference between republicans and democrats in the 2024 election. She saw this coming.
Glory b
@UncleEbeneezer: Thank you for all this.
Jeffries, Clyburn, etc, are much more popular within the black community than white lefties seem to realize.
Lots of black people were upset by AOC’s efforts to primary him and Shontel Brown.
There’s been a big dust up in the Alabama Democratic party, with the black party leaders accusing white progressives of acting in ways that would purposely dilute the power of black officials.
Then there’s the belief that the DSA, Justice Dems, Sunshine Dems, are targeting black voters and officials because they are hindering their ability to gain more power.
I was pissed at MM for first not doing his homework about the Jeffries book tour and yhen doubling down. I don’t do name calling and didn’t follow the thread, so I can’t speak to that, but lefties being so willing to let our civil rights fall by the wayside is infuriating.
p.a.
Bad news: according to EarthSky the asteroid is now a clear miss. No way to avoid having to fight through this fascist shit.
TBone
@Chris Johnson: you are a shining rockstar!
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Goes in with that “Are minorities brutal savages or innocent children?” that’s been going on in the West since Valladolid Debate. And while, yes, seeing them as innocent children is lot nicer than as brutal savages, it does deny minorities any agency to do things like fuck up. It’s not “They acted like an idiot (like rest of us might)” it becomes “They are way over their head, play time is over, we must get an adult (as in white) in”
TBone
@p.a.: the only way out is THROUGH.
Glory b
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I read that Tesla’s European sales were down 45%.
Soprano2
@Another Scott: I do too, mostly. Schumer is a bad public speaker, just like Pelosi was. I just listened to 20 minutes on a The New Abnormal podcast of ranting about how the Democrats should “do something” and “fight back” without either host ever saying what that might consist of. They complained about Hegseth, Gabbard and RFK Jr. getting confirmed; it was only about 15 minutes in that one of them admitted that well, Democrats couldn’t really stop that but they should have delayed it and missed the Munich summit. Then one of them confused Medicaid and Social Security. I mean guys, do better. If “fight back” means “give fiery speeches and get mad” then I think there’s merit to that, but I think it would be even better to highlight the stories of people being screwed by Musk and company for no reason. My therapist knows someone with 15 years of experience with the CIA who is being let go, evidently for no real reason. She knows someone else who is probably going to lose their house because of these layoffs. The staffers need to find the people in their districts who are being hurt and illustrate their stories.
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: I was not in that thread either. I rarely comment on MM’s threads for the past several years because he has come down in the comments to insult me more than once when I disagreed with something he said
And am in agreement with your comment and what Uncle Eb said.
FPers including JGC jump into the comments to chastise commenters who bring up white fragility. Although to his credit he did delete that thread chastising Prof. BigFoot.Bringing up white fragility or the Biden departure is labeled as sniping, not useful etc.
FPers have never had my back, in spite of being name called, stalked and being subject to bigoted attacks. Only one FPer has ever come to my aid and that was the Thin Black Duke.
Soprano2
@sixthdoctor: He probably takes a blood thinner. That’s what it looks like to me. He probably has some on his arms, too.
LAC
@Glory b: i second that from UC as well. And no, you did not call him any names, just try to provide information and context. And for that, we got an early Easter play.
YY_Sima Qian
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Tesla is in a very precarious position in the PRC market. The competition in this market is brutal & no holds barred, & Tesla’s development cycle is far slower than the Chinese competitors (both private & state owned), the spartan interior misaligned w/ mainstream local tastes, the fit & finisher rather mediocre, the smartification tech is middling by Chinese standards. Its one major competitive advantage in global markets, the FSD, is not available in the PRC & won’t be any time soon, & ADAS is being iterated rapidly by the Chinese automakers, w/ several already competitive if not superior to the FSD.
Tesla does retain some advantages, particularly the best in class power management system (that result in greater range on the same sized battery pack), sound structural design that improves safety, & good tuning of driving dynamics (which most Chinese consumers do not care about). Right now, it is basically trading on brand recognition in the PRC. Given the way Tesla models are priced in the PRC (still by far the lowest in the world), they do not represent good value for the market. The modal Tesla buyer in the PRC now is upper middle class non-tech savvy non-auto enthusiast, who is overwhelmed by the wealth of tech features that are standard in Chinese models, to whom Tesla is a well known brand she (more likely than he) feels safe to default to.
However, I suspect the PRC government will find ways to keep Tesla relevant in the market, so as to maintain a point of leverage w/ the Trump Administration, through Musk. The Shanghai Giga-Factory will remain Tesla’s main production base to serve the global market. Also fortunately for Tesla, the foreign legacy makers (Japanese/American/German) are even more vulnerable, & have been bleeding market share much more quickly than Tesla.
OTOH, Chinese marques, led by BYD, are encroaching upon Tesla’s turf in Europe & the developing world. At this point, many Europeans might be inclined to buy Chinese EVs w/ better tech & lower price, & shy away from an Elon Musk product.
Soprano2
@Quiltingfool: Do you know if there’s anywhere in Springfield that sells leather buttons? I need to replace one on hubby’s jacket – I went to JoAnn’s and Hobby Lobby but couldn’t find any. I feel that I have exhausted my choices in Springfield, but there may be places I’m not aware of.
schrodingers_cat
@LAC: Agreed.
John S.
@LAC:
Somebody asked for an example of something, I gave them one. Other than that, I have no clue what you’re going on about.
Miss Bianca
@Chief Oshkosh:
Borrowed this phrasing and merely added the following:
What does the threat of a “government shutdown” even mean when the entire government is being run like a criminal racket and a rogue state?
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: Try Amazon, Etsy or eBay.
Dougboy
@TBone: I understand how hard the onslaught of bad news is, but one thing I really like about HCR is that her daily rundown is almost emotionless, and collecting those facts-only recitations is a great way to bolster arguments you may (or not LOL) want to have with MAGAts.
Quiltingfool
@Soprano2: Hmmm. You could try FM Store (on Fremont, sort of behind Battlefield Mall) or Fabric Outlet on Glenstone (a bit north of Glenstone/Sunshine). Both stores carry clothing and home decor fabric as well as quilt fabric. If they don’t have anything, they might be able to steer you in the right direction.
If that fails, you may have to do an internet search…
Miss Bianca
@Michael Bersin: Hey, Alford – people DO understand that this is about the survival of the nation.
That’s why they’re all up in your useless grill. And hopefully toss you out on your useless ass next election (see, I still presume there will be some elections.)
TBone
@Dougboy: all of that! Yes!
However, my emotions become aroused, not conducive for civil discourse in the A.M.! I have to gird me loins first these days.
I save her missives for later in the day now, when I’m already pissed off.
satby
@LAC: I’m really disliking the prevailing story that a mean group of thugs (meaning black folks) chased poor mm off with relentless disruptive comments. But that’s now the accepted BJ canon. When the real story is that, like all middle aged white guys, he knows everything and was just explaining to us dumber beasts what we should understand. And he didn’t like being contradicted, to the point of calling the people arguing counter to him fools.
And if the icing on the cake isn’t the self-appointed front pager up with a post about the agonies of front paging. Beyond parody.
TBone
Jiminy Cricket!
Gretchen
@tobie: I like Renee’s garden seeds. They have a good variety and some old-fashioned kinds.
schrodingers_cat
@satby: Check your email. What is playing out here is the battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. White Leftists want non-white people to provide votes and agree with them and praise them.
When we don’t and have our own opinions we are labeled as obtrusive and other epithets.
Gretchen
@satby: Self-appointed front pager? You’re making her point. If you don’t appreciate her writing, you don’t have to read it. She puts in a ton of work keeping this place rolling, and I’m grateful to her for that. If readers make it stinky enough to write here, there will be no more Balloon Juice, which would me terrible.
satby
@no body no name: Youngs have always bolted when the olds showed up probably since the Roman empire. The methods change but that is a pattern as old as humanity.
satby
@Gretchen: I don’t.
Edit: but there is a backstory that she provided to me herself about that. And that’s the only thing I’ll say about it
Gretchen
@satby: you seem to have changed. If you don’t like it here, you don’t have to come. Don’t spoil it for everyone else.
Gretchen
@FDRLincoln: I think I’ll do the same. Maybe if I call them every day and repeat whatever theme you hit, they’ll start to get a clue. Well, Marshall won’t ever get a clue, but Moran may.
Miss Bianca
@UncleEbeneezer: Damn. I never would have guessed I was actually a Black Democrat. Wait till I tell Mom! /s
satby
@Gretchen: see the edit, and I’m the same as I’ve always been.
schrodingers_cat
@Gretchen: She is a nice person.
Professor Bigfoot
@satby: The whole kerfluffle about the “children’s book” was based more on history than that particular piece of misinformation.
But white people will ALWAYS give other white people the benefit of the doubt, and find it very easy to believe it’s the Black guy’s fault.
ALWAYS.
Gretchen
@satby: OK, so you don’t appreciate her writing. There’s lots of writing I don’t appreciate. I don’t read it anyway and slag it it the comments. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. Don’t make it so unpleasant to write here that Balloon Juice dies.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: I have your back FWIW.
geg6
@lowtechcyclist:
Sounds great to me!
schrodingers_cat
@Gretchen: Deleted since you changed the part of your comment that I was responding to.
Miss Bianca
@satby: I wasn’t following the whole saga, since I don’t really care for that particular FPer’s take on things in general, and therefore was not about to bother reading his GBCW post. But have to admit, the Blogfather’s opinion of him notwithstanding, I find MM’s “now I’m back but you can’t say anything I think is mean about me because I don’t allow comments on my posts anymore” thing to be kind of gross. Self-indulgent.
I mean, How can we miss you if you won’t go away…
rebelsdad
@Miss Bianca: that’s the point I was trying to make yesterday in my comment but you said it much better than I could have. Thank you.
schrodingers_cat
@Miss Bianca: Many FPers including blogfather have shown us time and again that some commenters are more equal than the others. Their arguments are listened to. They are valued.
People who didn’t want Biden to quit, who don’t like the constant shitting on elected Ds. Not so valued. Not given any benefit of doubt
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: I saw your response. I felt like mine was ungracious, which wasn’t helpful in the circumstances. I’m feeling like this person’s responses are out of character from what I’ve observed before, and it troubles me. Maybe there’s some backstory I’m not aware of, but if it’s a private matter it doesn’t need to be played out publicly in the comments.
And for the record, I greatly value both your and Professor Bigfoot’s perspectives.
We’re all sore and hurting and I at least am more inclined to be ungracious than is typical for me. I’m trying to keep my ungraciousness directed at the idiots who are destroying this country and remember that my allies are hurting too.
geg6
@Glory b:
Please come if and when we do it!
LAC
@satby: Yep!! That is the undercurrent I am getting here. The “chosen ones” vibe is why this is being recast as if MM had to battle all these mean comments calling him everything but a child of God. I get that FPing is not easy, but AL does it and I do not see any disrespect coming from her or to her in the comments. I cannot…just save some wood as the real Easter is coming. We are fighting for our very survival in this country and I do not have time to do “You is smart, you is special” (The Help) to people smart enough to read and research why things hit differently for us.
schrodingers_cat
@Gretchen: It is hard to be a non-white person in America right now and unfortunately lately even on Balloon Juice.
Everywhere we turn we are seeing how unwanted we are. Even among our so called allies.
schrodingers_cat
@LAC: Word.
BTW I was accused of appropriating the Black experience, I guess because I have some insight into some of your experience as a non-white micro minority in this country.
satby
@Professor Bigfoot: I got that when I went back to read it. What I also got was that when questioned you all were not just dismissed, but called “fools” for thinking your thoughts about it.
Fucking unacceptable.
LAC
@schrodingers_cat: 😊. You know, this becomes a slippery slope for all minorities in this country to fall into after a while. We are just the canary in the coal mine. Anti DEI nonsense is now hitting a little different when the results are not just about us.
schrodingers_cat
@LAC: I wouldn’t have been able to become a naturalized citizen without the work put in by the generations of black people and their allies into Civil Rights Legislation.
Soprano2
@Quiltingfool: I’ll try the FM store, I tried Fabric Outlet but they only had a couple of bags of various plastic buttons. There are just limited places to look for something like that, and now we’re losing one of them!
LAC
@schrodingers_cat: And thank you for recognizing and being an ally.
rikyrah
@satby:
I know that’s right.
All of them😠😠😠
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
Glad that you are here, SC.
rebelsdad
@schrodingers_cat: FWIW, this white guy wants all of you here. I’ve done (and am still doing) the hard work of deprogramming the white supremacy I grew up in.
schrodingers_cat
@rebelsdad: Thanks. I know hard it is to deprogram. I belong to a privileged demographic in India so I know the struggle and the loneliness it brings.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: That link should have come with a trigger warning! Multiple evil men, and one trying (and failing) to imitate a human smiling.
shudder.
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: I can only speak for myself but I want you here.
zhena gogolia
@rebelsdad: I saw that, and I’m sorry you got reprimanded.
rikyrah
@YY_Sima Qian:
Saw the competition on Red Book. Those cars look fabulous, compared to Tesla😒
rikyrah
@Soprano2:
I agree. Dems need to find real people getting hurt in real time in these GOP districts. Get them on those local news channels. Put faces to the cuts.
Manyakitty
@satby: I mostly use Gurney’s