Column by Paul Kane: The ex-speaker tore apart a copy of Trump’s 2020 address to Congress. This time, she says Democrats need to coalesce on one, short message. https://t.co/dqP7dDb4dx
— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) March 1, 2025
The Oval Office Occupant’s not-technically-State-of-the-Union speech is scheduled for this Tuesday, with TV coverage set to begin at 9pm EST. (NPR — Nice Polite Republicans — is very excited about it.) I’m glad to see she’s still fighting the good fight, and I’m sure some of you will have strong opinions about no-longer-Speaker Pelosi’s suggested response: “‘Let him stew in his own juice,’ Pelosi advises ahead of Trump’s speech” [gift link]:
… Pelosi will attend Tuesday’s joint session of Congress when Trump returns to the House chamber for the first time since that raucous speech. That one began with the president refusing to shake her hand and ended with her waving the shredded speech to her family and supporters in the gallery above.
Now a rank-and-file lawmaker, Pelosi retains a great degree of clout inside the Democratic caucus. Younger lawmakers continue to seek her counsel, with recent discussions including warnings to not turn themselves into part of the story during Tuesday’s speech and urging them to narrow their party’s message in next year’s midterm elections.
“Any demonstration of disagreement, whether it’s visual or whatever, just let him stew in his own juice. Don’t be any grist for the mill to say this was inappropriate,” Pelosi said Thursday morning…
After 20 years leading the caucus, Pelosi has largely ceded the spotlight to House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-New York) and his younger leadership team. She relishes her role as someone who still raises big money for Democrats but doesn’t have to answer for every lawmaker’s concern.
She sees similarities today to the two most recent times Democrats were completely locked out of power: in 2005 after George W. Bush’s reelection coincided with GOP wins of the House and Senate, and in 2017 after Trump’s first victory…
“You got a mountain of rocks,” Pelosi said, metaphorically referring to all the potential issues in an election. “What are the three or four? You’re going right for the jugular.”
To drive home the point, Pelosi gently swung her right hand into my neck. Pelosi stood comfortably for the 15-minute interview on the Capitol’s first floor, loosely holding a walking stick to help with balance.
Pelosi, 84, underwent hip replacement surgery in mid-December after a fall while traveling in Europe with a bipartisan congressional delegation. She has steadily moved from the use of a walker to two walking sticks and, now, down to one…
… Democrats face a problem today in terms of the different sets of voters and the messages they want to hear. Party leaders believe that cost-of-living issues crippled Kamala Harris and some Democrats in last fall’s election with the decisive bloc of swing voters.
In this current moment, with Trump inching close to Russia and Elon Musk eviscerating some federal agencies, a large portion of the Democratic base wants a more fire-and-brimstone approach to fighting Trump.
Her advice is to give room for Democrats from particularly safe districts to make those angry appeals away from Washington.
“The most important thing in all of this is to prioritize. And Hakeem, he has that down. I have every confidence that he has that down,” Pelosi said. “Again, members will say I want this, I want that. Yeah, that’s interesting, talk about that at home.”…
She hopes Democrats can refrain from interjecting Tuesday, unlike House Republicans during the last two Biden addresses in the House chamber. Yet Pelosi has let younger Democrats know everyone has a breaking point.
“Unless you have something that is a moment,” she said. “That’s what a moment was, when I tore up the speech.”
But if they can focus the next seven months, Democrats could be poised for something bigger than just the narrow victory they need to win the House majority.
“This fall is everything. And we only need three seats,” she said. “I don’t want three seats, I want many more than that.”
From her mouth to the Trickster God’s hairy, pointed ears!
Baud
Nothing happens this fall. Even if Pelosi misspoke, there’s no reason for the reporter not to know that.
Spanky
Uh, “this fall”?
Spanky
Also, giving a speech after 9PM is a pretty heavy lift for a sundowning moron.
Eta, maybe he’ll bring Elon with him.
Baud
@Spanky:
I speculated that he’ll tell Mike Johnson to give Elon a seat behind Trump.
JoyceH
@Spanky: who will be his Skutniks? The Tate Bros perhaps?
Baud
IMHO this captures our core problem.
prostratedragon
@JoyceH: That would be revolting on top of already revolting. My personal choice in any case would be not to be there, though I’d do what the caucus needed.
ETA partly because I do not trust these mfs.
Princess
I know a lot of people want to see protest but I’m afraid Nancy is right. Dress down to the bare minimum of the dress code, be casual, keep your mouths shut and sit on your hands. Make the story be the things Trump says. Don’t give the press any excuse to write about the Democrats. Any scene at all is a gift to Trump. Let the two thirds of the country who were fine with this see what they have wrought.
lowtechcyclist
I would suggest the Democrats just not show up.
Sure, the media can report on that, but OK, what’s the second paragraph? It’s not like there are a lot of details to report about absence.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
160 negative articles in the NYT about what Dems not showing up means.
The media is very good at manufacturing content.
matt
If I was in Congress I’d wear something in solidarity with Ukraine for SOTU.
Mousebumples
@Baud: Virginia state races? 🤷♀️
AM in NC
@matt: Yep. Every Democrat should be in Blue and Yellow or they should make blue/yellow flower pins (like the red poppies worn for Remembrance Day). 100% support of Ukraine and contrasting with Russian/Republican axis.
It’s a silent protest that sharpens the contradictions visually without allowing a “DEMS DISRUPTIVE – OH NOES, HOW COULD THEY BREAK NORMS?!?!” BS narrative to take hold.
And afterwards? Talk about the Republicans aligning us with the Axis powers instead of our Allies.
Wedges!
Baud
@matt:
I’d wear a “Better Democrat than Russian” T-shirt.
geg6
I don’t even know why Democrats are showing up. Fuck this nice polite shit. I really don’t care what Pelosi has to say at this point. Her advice has not worked out so well lately. If you want to send a message and not disrupt his little Reichstag speech, you refuse to participate.
Ohio Mom
And the press couldn’t write a hundred stories about every Democrat sitting there stone faced?
I’m not saying I know the answer.
no body no name
Pelosi is one of the main reasons we are in this situation. She needs to let the younger generation run things.
I don’t know what we can do to help push AOC, Crockett, and Frost to leadership but it needs to happen.
Baud
@no body no name:
Pelosi doesn’t run anything anymore.
geg6
@Baud:
And? I don’t know a single person around here who reads the FTFNYT. Or most mass media, except FOX. Exceptions being me (no longer partaking since November) and my small circle of friends and family. They can bleat all they want.
Baud
@geg6:
I feel the same, but I’ve learned that the NYT owns many Democratic voters.
In any event, my only point is that the idea that the media wouldn’t have anything to write about is false.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
That would be some of the most boring content in the history of the news media.
People might read the first two or three (if that many), but after that, they’d be skipping right on by. They certainly wouldn’t be picking up any new readers while they were running all those stories, and would probably lose more than a few of their existing subscribers. “This again? Why exactly am I paying good money to read the same shit, day after day?”
zhena gogolia
@Baud: BECAUSE OUR VOTERS ARE IDIOTS
zhena gogolia
@lowtechcyclist: Did you miss what happened last June-July?
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I have no idea. I’m out of step with both US culture and liberal culture, not to mention NYT reader culture.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: Except her mouth.
Ron
Don’t show up. Hold town halls at the same time. Say what dems would be doing if they had power. But keep it simple.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Sure. But let’s not pretend she’s still in charge.
prostratedragon
Yesterday was Caturday!
Baud
zhena gogolia
I don’t think it will make any difference one way or another what they do, but I hope they boo when he brags about his foreign policy.
rk
It would not surprise me if Trump ignores the prepared speech and starts dancing to YMCA.
TBone
@rk: ha!
TBone
Bringing up from downstairs because SO great:
Thanks to Anne Laurie, I am reading Professor Leonore!
Read it and laugh with me!
bsky.app/profile/leecarpenter.bsky.social/post/3ljaszsczjs2s
You must click to unnerstan.
bsky.app/profile/councilmemberjg.bsky.social/post/3ljaskdipc22j
Happy Womens History Month!
catclub
@lowtechcyclist:
Did you read any of the hundreds of articles on State Department email policies? Wiping versus deleting?
catclub
@Ron:
“we stand with Ukraine against fascism”
“we stand with federal workers against know-nothing billionaires destroying the US government.”
lowtechcyclist
@zhena gogolia:
No. Do you think people would react to this story the way they did for weeks on end last summer?
There was a reason that story didn’t go away: people were arguing whether Biden should be the nominee.
What would make this more than a one-day story?
MagdaInBlack
@zhena gogolia: You’re right it doesnt matter what they do, the press will find it wrong.
I would enjoy if they dressed somberly, sat silently thru the yammer, and when it’s over, just get up and leave.
I came, I saw, I listened, bye.
catclub
@Baud: good grief.
TBone
@matt: 🎯
M31
Wear grey Zelenskyy-style uniforms.
Invite wounded Ukrainians to sit with them.
Hold up a sign that says “How’s Putin’s cock taste?”
Hold up a sign that says “Hitler was bad” (that’ll get some tut-tuts from the NYT “but the autobahn!”)
lowtechcyclist
@catclub:
I must confess I have no recollection of that.
no body no name
Fuck the press. Nobody fucking cares about the press.
I’m younger than many here but everyone hates the media. Nobody pays attention to them but the media and a select class of educated white liberals that everyone also hates. Fuck the press and fuck any professional white liberal. They are the problem.
When Crockett ripped into MTG even racists and MAGAs loved it. People like a fight. People like fighters. Even if they don’t agree with you they will respect you. So tear it up like a boss. If Crockett, AOC, Frost, Omar, and the rest of the younger generation showed up in blue and yellow and were rude the press would freak out but people would love it.
Being a coward or milk toast rallies nothing. Being bold and out there at least garners grudging respect. Fucking do it! Show up in a blue and yellow tutu if needed and dare them to call you on it. When they do tell them to fuck off and toss your salad. What are they going to do? Cry more? While people agree with you? Just do it!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@rk: LOL. With old looney-tunes Donald, you never know.
JeanneT
@matt: That’s what I was thinking too
WereBear
Ooooo, oooooo, Mr. Kotter! Can we submit the messages we’d like them to send?
TBone
A tribute just because
m.youtube.com/watch?v=9HKNAhAxMAk
According to commentary, Paul Simon spent two and a half weeks in Johannesburg, South Africa writing music for “Graceland.” For those sessions, Simon paid the musicians $196.41 an hour, triple scale wages by American pay rates. And to those musicians who provided key instrumental licks and melodic fragments that were later incorporated into tunes, he also offered writers’ royalties. What an awesome human being. He obviously respected the musicians he worked with.
Trivia Man
@Spanky: “Better living through chemistry”!
WereBear
@Princess: Or, they could all wear tan suits and disrespect him.
Baud
@no body no name:
I try not to give advice because I have no clue what is effective. But I disagree that the media isn’t powerful. And with young people too – they just get the propaganda filtered through online sources.
WereBear
@Baud: I guess we can no longer do anything to stop the lemmings going over the cliff.
Let’s all just try to get out of the way.
Glory b
@no body no name: “Leadership” has to protect ALL Dems, and those three are in safe Democratic districts.
They say what they say because they aren’t in leadership, it gives them a free hand
When Dems told Nancy they’d have to vote against her on a particular issue to keep their seats, she said “Just win, baby.”
She’s also, as the article said, “rank and file” now, having stepped down from leadership quite some time ago.
You’re going to have to do better to keep up with the commenters here.
Baud
@WereBear:
I’m already way out the way.
We’re out of power. As far as I’m concerned, nothing is our responsibility.
ETA: If people want liberal outcomes, like good health, they can vote for liberals.
Glory b
@no body no name: Sinema used to wear tutus too, you see where that got us.
And it’s “milquetoast.”
lowtechcyclist
@rk:
Old man – there’s a place you should go
Old man – where a snowball’s chances are low
NeenerNeener
@rk: It would not surprise me if T___p just makes an opening statement introducing Musk, who then steps up and talks about all the “wonderful” savings he’s found with DOGE while T____p naps on stage behind him. Bonus points if little X is there wiping boogers on T____p.
Betty Cracker
A demented, felonious cult leader who was elected with 49.8% of the vote has literally declared himself king, switched sides to back a fellow autocrat in a genocidal war on a U.S. ally and unloosed an unelected, foreign-born oligarch pal to illegally destroy the federal government, disrupting biomedical research and other core functions like food safety, consumer protection, etc., while stealing all our data. None of that shit is popular.
I’m not a political consultant, but I sure hope elected Democrats react to the occasion of the fascist felon’s speech in a manner that conveys they understand the scale of the emergency. My opinion is that Pelosi’s recommendations do not convey that. I concede she’s forgotten more about politics than I will ever know, but that doesn’t mean she’s right about this.
Stevo
I full 180 degrees disagree with her. She is spending too much time in polite circles.
Dems need to counter every single lie and horrible point he makes and as fast as possible before the MSM sanewashes it. Making sure to include how it will f up your life.
We have seen this movie over and over. It drives me nuts.
TBone
Red Alert for PA:
spotlightpa.org/news/2025/02/judicial-retention-election-pennsylvania-2025-supreme-court-partisan/
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Heh.
John S.
@Betty Cracker:
100%
Princess
@Stevo: Dems can and should definitely counter every line of it in real time but they’re not going to do it in the room where the speech is going on in any case, whether they walk out, sit quietly or moon Trump for the duration of the speech.
As for what the ones in the room should do in the room, I said what I said above but I mostly am uncertain. What I do know is focus needs to be on Trump, his words, and his actions, and on compelling critique of these. I personally don’t think sitting there booing is compelling critique but I’m the first to admit I don’t get Americans and what will motivate them.
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker: @Stevo: I agree with you both. I deeply admire and respect Nancy Pelosi, but I think she and others are leaders for a different time.
There’s a graphic going around Xhitter listing Democratic accomplishments, being shared by some of the national organizations’ pages….. and it is so bad that it hurts my head. Not the accomplishments. The actual graphic is so bad that it looks like someone who just learned how to use Microsoft Word did a bunch of copy/paste and hit PRINT TO PDF without anyone taking three minutes to think, “Hey, how can we make this basically legible?” and almost every comment is about how bad it is. This rake-stepping is not reassuring.
As for the speech…. eh. I go for: make no memes inside the speech itself. I would like to see a shared response sometime. Pick 7-8 of the Dems and have them each handle a part of the response. Start elevating multiple people.
Another Scott
@lowtechcyclist: Devil’s advocate:
No Democrats show up.
Johnson hears a motion to call a special session before the speech. Unanimous vote in favor.
Everyone votes to expel Democrats. Unanimous vote in favor.
:-/
Seriously, part of the job is showing up. “Document the atrocities.”
Democrats will be there.
Best wishes,
Scott.
dww44
@matt: I agree. Wear some combo of red white and blue and a scarf or other of yellow and blue. Sit in absolute silence. The people of Ukraine deserve our visible support in the House where the majority party has ceded its authority to the traitor President.
In no way should there be any vocalization. No repeat of what happened in the Oval Office. Begin to restore our dignity that Trump and his toadies shredded in front of the whole world.
E.
@TBone: Keep digging. There are some real turds in there that don’t show up in the self-promoting propaganda
Suzanne
Also…. I would love to stop seeing the responses delivered inside a State Capitol or Katie Britt’s kitchen or whatever. It looks inherently less impressive than what people just watched. These should be done in a studio.
Jackie
@matt:
I like that idea. Of course at the 2022 SOTU, BOTH sides of the aisle wore flag pins and yellow and blue attire in support of Ukraine…
Suzanne
For one of the Women’s Marches, I made a sign in the style of Russian Constructivist graphic art that simply read “NYET!” (to protest the Russian asset in the White House). I wish I still had it.
Jackie
@WereBear:
Every Democrat should dress exactly like Muskrat! Except the black MAGA hat.
WereBear
@dww44: Visual resistance. What they gonna do? Absolutely.
But Republicans are afraid of their MAGA constituents. MAGA doesn’t want this. But do they have the guts?
Because, these town halls have serious “I won’t be ignored, Dan!” vibes to me.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
WereBear
From a townhall attended by Parkrose Pemaculture on Youtube:
Republican Reps are running from their constituents to obey Trump. They know what they are doing is wrong, so they are voting as a scared clump of R’s even though they know it’s wrong.
But now the death threats are coming from inside the house. A real cognitive dissonance moment!
Gvg
@no body no name: yeah, but keep the message simple is always good advice IMO. Look at our voters.
Steve LaBonne
Most Republican members of Congress know perfectly well what a disgrace and disaster Fearless Leader’s ambush of Zelenskyy was. How about asking when THEY are going to grow spines? Everyone has an opinion about what Democrats should do and guess what, everyone also has a certain anatomical feature.
Jackie
@Suzanne: I heard Michigan’s new freshman senator, Elissa Slotkin, has been tasked giving the Democratic rebuttal… but I like your idea of multiple candidates.
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: I think I know the graphic you’re referring to since I’ve seen something like that shared on bsky and did not know its provenance. I was wondering if someone literally took a screenshot of a printed page and posted it. Info good, graphic bad. We have graphic designers, right?
no body no name
@Baud:
I don’t know either! But I do know what we are doing isn’t effective. And I do know that centrist professional class economics with social liberalism is a fucking loser. I can observe that Sanders, AOC, Crockett, Omar, and Frost tactics are effective.
I’ll take more of what works and less of what does not.
I’ve also noticed when they call us nasty we are usually being effective. When we are polite we are failing. Let’s be nasty!
delphinium
@Suzanne:
Agree, it is probably too late at this point, but would love the response to the SOTU to include a short video of people already impacted by DOGE (eg, “My farm relies on X program”, “I’m a veteran who was let go”…, etc and then repeat how many billions Musk has gotten in government subsidies). Also make it abundantly clear that Democrats stand with our allies, not our enemies.
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker:
I…. really hope so? Because that thing is really, really bad.
I know there’s been a request to talk less about messaging and public image and that stuff. I’m trying to abide by that.
WereBear
Which is what Pelosi meant about “need three” — if we flip 3 Republicans. The most cowardly species on earth.
See? They aren’t thinking BIG enough. They are trapped in their little DC world so DEEP they didn’t need Facebook they have their own.
We are the ones who must DO IT.
zhena gogolia
@NeenerNeener: This is the most likely scenario I’ve seen.
delphinium
@Suzanne: Yeah, maybe the response could take place on a family farm instead.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker:
I wish I could teach my students to summarize so concisely and effectively!
Baud
@no body no name:
You have more knowledge than me then. I have no idea where things stand.
Almost Retired
@Suzanne: Totally agree about better production values for the opposition response to the SOTU (or whatever this thing is called this year). The sound is always kind of leaden. At least Democrats know enough to hydrate beforehand (looking at you L’il “sink into the couch in shame” Marco.
TBone
@E.: first rule of holes: stop digging when you’re in too deep! I frequently have to remind hubby during arguments hahahaha!
MazeDancer
The NIH.gov site is not responding.
Neither is the PubMed site.
PubMed is the repository of every published medical study ever.
This cannot be forever. Or science is forever screwed.
Suzanne
@Jackie: One of the challenges that is inherent with our system is that we have to vote for our local people, even if we feel more aligned with someone else. For example, if you like really the style of AOC or Jasmine Crockett or Elizabeth Warren or whomever, but you live in PA or CO or AZ…. how do we motivate that voter? That’s why I think the team approach, the overarching brand, needs to be emphasized.
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all! More yard work on tap for the day.
After coffee, of course.
Omnes Omnibus
What happens inside the House chamber does not have to match what happens outside. Aside from saying no to Trump and ilk (which we must do), we don’t yet know the best way to combat what’s happening. Restrained and professional looking opposition in in the chamber can be matched with other actions outside. Why don’t we see what works and then try to do more of it?
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: Biden’s policies made a measurable dent in inequality for the first time in a very long time. Memory-holing our own side’s real accomplishments is a contribution in kind to the Republican Party.
no body no name
@Glory b:
ilk toast is it’s own insult! they are not the same. milk toast is a racial insult. Go get your boomer card.
@Jackie:
What’s funny here is Musk is ripping off the CEO of nvidia here. Jen has been wearing a black jacket, black shirt, and black jeans for decades. Musk is copying Jen. But the similarity ends there. Jen famously walks about Taiwan and Cali with no security forces and eats street food! He’s not known as an asshole CEO and unlike Musk he’s competent about the products he produces and is an actual techie person.
Jen cleaned shitters for a living at one point. He was an actual microchip designer. He’s not fake like Musk! His company is valued at 3 trillion dollars and he founded it in a fucking Denny’s!
Musk is stolen valor here as Jen is the real deal. Musk is a fucking farce.
*Disclamer several of my friend work at nvidia and I have been buying their products for years.
Suzanne
@Almost Retired: The response is never visually compelling (except when someone messes up, like Rubio or Bobby Jindal, and then we mock them mercilessly). This is the age of the viral video clip. They should be doing this more like a newscast, with photos and graphics behind them.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
My approach to politics doesn’t align with the majority approach. Which is more effective? I have no idea. I don’t have enough confidence in my point of view to hate other people that do something else.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
No doubt but that’s gonna happen, regardless of what Democrats do or do not do. Corporate media is desperate for horse races, bothsides, etc, that they will generate something.
This is what we get for having a 24/7 news cycle that MUST be filled with something, anything.
So, back to the point here: What are Democrats to do? If they do nothing (abide by norms, politely sit and listen), there will be stories about “bipartisanship” or other such bullshit.
If they up and walk out, there will be stories about how mean and uncooperative they were.
IMHO, it’s a no-win situation so they might as well make sure whatever message they send is of one-voice and loud and clear.
hrprogressive
Zero reason for the Democratic Party to give this any legitimacy unless they want to further the notion that they’re just the controlled opposition of the Fascist oligarchs running the country.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
100% agree. But see comment # 6.
Steve LaBonne
@Baud: I was not attacking you, I believe we are pretty much in agreement. Nobody touting this or that approach has any evidence that it will be effective, meanwhile we are so busy constantly criticizing and second-guessing our own party that we seem unable to talk about its very real accomplishments. How does that encourage anyone to vote for us?
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: Well, I’m not going to abide by that. I think that stuff is really important, and we all have a role to play as messengers in our communities, so we have a stake too. Anyone who doesn’t like the topic can scroll on by.
@MazeDancer: Holy shit.
MagdaInBlack
@Omnes Omnibus: Good to see you commenting again.
Baud
@Steve LaBonne:
I didn’t think you were attacking me.
ETA: seeing your edit, I agree, that’s my perspective as well.
WereBear
@hrprogressive: Our Democrats won’t step out of their role. We have to stop thinking they WILL.
They won’t get rowdy but will be grateful if we express ourselves.
THAT is the answer. Now, just go calm down, caught up on news and I do have to think of my cortisol balance.
Another Scott
@MazeDancer: There are copies of the NIH and other government sites. Publicly released US Government work is not protected by Copyright, so it can be copied by anyone.
E.g. Archive.org.
Yes, it’s horrible what they’re doing to information. I assume the sites will be back, after they’ve been scrubbed of whatever they want to remove. But people working in the field have taken notice…
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@MazeDancer:
Both came up for me, although slowly.
sentient ai from the future
@no body no name: tautologies are tautological. Have some pie.
Elizabelle
Good morning, jackals. Today I encountered a word I had never heard or read before.
Not getting a huge workout these days. If you do not know it, can you guess?
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: 🎯 (sorry, emoji haters)
Nukular Biskits
@Betty Cracker:
This is the entire problem in a nutshell.
no body no name
@Nukular Biskits:
No be mean. Grow a pair. Nut up or shut up.
I’m obviously not in charge of the party but fuck it. Send the squad in there in blue and yellow and nobody else. When there is an outrage about that fuck it. Let them pound the podium about Musk.
Baud
@Suzanne:
To my knowledge, all of those leaders encourage their supporters to vote for their local Dem candidates. So why aren’t those supporters listening?
sentient ai from the future
@no body no name: oh i see.
you’re looking for a Capitalist Hero, you just don’t like the ones on offer.
You have friends who work at Nvidia. Clearly you have the Touch of the Common Person.
sentient ai from the future
@Steve LaBonne: the DOING IT RONG caucus has a constituency that thinks a lot of themselves and doesn’t do the work to find out shit about shit
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: I think they should all wear clothing that is blue or yellow, and every single Democratic senator should wear a Ukraine pin.
They should all hold 10×10 signs in their lap – each one with a different message.
I stand with the unions.
I stand with the federal employees who are being pushed out.
I stand with our seniors who paid for their social security.
I stand with kids who have special needs. etc
I stand with young people who can’t afford housing.
No booing, no standing up and turning their backs (even though I would love to see that!).
Quietly sitting with their pins & ties & jackets in Blue & Yellow, and holding their signs.
Baud
The SOTU rebuttal should be done in song. Like that episode of Buffy.
Suzanne
@Baud: Because lots of people are normal, and they don’t really seek out and listen per se. More likely, they just become aware of certain politicians through viral clips and puff pieces and podcast interviews and the like. I have gotten shit here for pointing out that most people consume political information as only one part of broader lifestyle content, but it’s true. They’re looking for other content, on health or fashion or workouts or video games or whatever it is they care about, and there happens to be some political content slid into that, and that’s how they become aware of a political figure. They’re rarely, if ever, listening to a speech or even researching a political figure’s past positions or statements.
Jackie
@Omnes Omnibus: Glad to see you again :)
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
I’m not entirely sure I understand.
If you’re arguing that what “the left” wants is too disjointed, disorganized, etc, I’m not inclined to argue. It is a big tent and you’re never gonna get everyone in harmonious agreement on anything.
Having said that, I have to agree with something someone else upthread (too lazy to go back and find who) said about people (being an ambigiously-defined term there) want a fighter. Is there any political advantage continuing to respect norms, civility, when Trump/MAGA clearly do not?
Obviously, I’m biased here in that I want to see Dems to open the proverbial can of Whup-Ass™ … but to infer from your posts here your point, I’m not entirely clear on whether “normies” are at that point yet.
Another Scott
TheHill (no link) has a story up about “5 things” that they wonder will drive the elections in 2025 and later. While they mention “the economy”, they don’t mention “eggs” or “rent”. I wonder why?? :-/
Meanwhile, as Geminid reminds us, gun laws have been a decent wedge issue with the normies, especially in Virginia. We need enough normies to turn out with us to make progress and turn things around.
What’s that??
RollCall.com:
The MAGAts caught the noisy truck, but don’t realize that it’s filled with beehives of killer bees rather than Snausages…
Grr…
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
I’m saying different groups want different things, and they can’t all be satisfied.
Betty Cracker
@hrprogressive: I agree with that premise but am unsure what’s the best way to express opposition in this particular scenario. I think treating it as business as usual would be actively harmful.
mrmoshpotato
@Spanky:
More because of Dump’s sundowning, or more because he’s a moron?
Maybe the South African Nazi who no one voted for gives the speech while Dump sits on his shoulders.
Gloria DryGarden
@MazeDancer: sh¡t! I mean, dang it.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Well, if the people they admire can’t reach them, I’m not sure what else we can do, beyond what we do for all normies.
WaterGirl
@MazeDancer:
Does this work?
govwayback.com/
sentient ai from the future
@MazeDancer:
RED ALERT
yeah, I can’t ping nih.gov at all, either from stateside or eu based networks. Pubmed is much higher/lower in that hierarchy and NIH IS NOT FUCKING RESOLVING AT ALL.
there is europepmc.org which is not exactly a mirror of pubmed but similar.
Holy shit I can’t even.
sentient ai from the future
@WaterGirl: that won’t help to find links to articles, which DOCTORS AND PROVIDERS NEED TO DO EVERY FUCKING DAY OMG IM GOING TO HAVE A FUCKING STROKE
ETA: that link would probably help to find literature hosted on a .gov site, but pubmed and the nlm are important because they link to actual articles, papers, and books where the publishers host them. Sometimes that is at pubmed central, a gov hosted repository, but often is not.
NIH.gov going down is like the pre-internet library having a fire that only affected the card catalog and the spines of all the books.
E.
@TBone: My mistake. If you don’t want to look into the truth or falsehood of what you promote and enjoy, that’s your business.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
I was pretty sure that’s what you were saying and you’ll get no disagreement from me.
But at some point, party leaders are going to have to fish or cut bait. They can’t waste time trying to get everyone on board with Tactic A or Message B. That’s never going to happen so you go with the majority. If those voices left out are butthurt over their preferred course(s) of action, well, okay.
As Obama (and many others) said, “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. “
lowtechcyclist
@WaterGirl:
Those Dems that attend should definitely show up in Ukraine blue and/or yellow if at all possible. And I like the sign idea. How can the media report on the signs without at least mentioning their content?
I think “No Kings” would be a good one. And in smaller text underneath it, “July 4, 1776”.
Reboot
@MazeDancer: The nih.gov came up (not instantly) for me.
sentient ai from the future
@Reboot: clear your cache and then try.
mrmoshpotato
@Suzanne: Agreed. Do we know yet who’s going to call out all of the lies?
Gloria DryGarden
@Elizabelle: im making up an answer.
vertical growing greens. Like beans on a trellis. Or those Singapore apartments with green growing things all ups and down them.
ok, I give.
PS good to hear the nih site is coming up for folks.
Glory b
@no body no name: Milk toast is a racial insult?
I’ve had my black card for quite some time now, lived in black neighborhoods all my life (15208, represent!), have older and younger relatives, none have ever heard of it.
How is it racial, directed towards who and meaning what?
Suzanne
@Baud: That’s why I think we need to take more of a team or cast-of-characters approach to our communications. Instead of that big wall of text that went viral for being illegible, I would love to see a series of really short videos and graphics shared by the national organizations highlighting those same points — and feature those people!
sentient ai from the future
The national library of medicine is the subsection of NIH that hosts pubmed and a bunch a other stuff. pubmed is pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
nlm.nih.gov doesn’t even resolve.
NIH.gov does but is not responding to pings.
lowtechcyclist
@sentient ai from the future:
I just opened it with no problem at all, no delay even.
Jackie
@mrmoshpotato: Elissa Slotkin
Nukular Biskits
Why does the page sometimes (frequently, actually) go all the way to back to the top whenever I refresh?
grrrrr
sentient ai from the future
@lowtechcyclist: clear your cache and then try
tobie
@Suzanne: Team building, yes. And to that end, WaterGirl’s and other’s idea of a shadow cabinet works well. Find your most powerful speakers with special expertise in one area and make them the go-to person for the media on anything that happens in that area. Send your veterans expert to communities with large VAs for town halls, your climate change expert to places that routinely flood, your ag expert to places where farmers have to deal with new blights, etc.
Dems don’t control what gets to the floor in Congress. But they can outline future proposals that address the needs of difft communities.
Reboot
@sentient ai from the future: Cleared it, and took about the same amount of time to come up. We have a slow connection here.
Ohio Mom
One thing I am sure of, Democrats must attend. Otherwise their absence may be interpreted as having ceded all legislative and governmental involvement to Republicans.
What to wear, how to act, we need some theater people to chime in.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
The majority changes. In January, the majority weren’t in support of an oppositional approach, based on a poll that was featured here.
ETA: We can’t even agree in this thread whether Dems should show up to the SOTU.
mrmoshpotato
@Jackie: That should be good.
MagdaInBlack
@sentient ai from the future: It just came up for me, on DuckDuckGo.
Elizabelle
@Gloria DryGarden: I think that is a WAY better definition than the actual meaning. And along the same lines I was thinking. Well done.
May be a reason no one uses this particular word much
PS: thank you for getting me to think about those Singapore apartments. And all the urban homes with greenery.
mrmoshpotato
@Nukular Biskits: The hamsters like to annoy us every now and then.
Another Scott
@sentient ai from the future: At least some NIH sites are under maintenance.
Best wishes,
Scott.
sentient ai from the future
Crisis averted, I guess, though what the fuck was that, and I’ve been concerned about just this kind of fuckery for the last couple weeks. Maybe I’m shouting at phantoms. I need to be away from the news for a bit.
Glory b
@Glory b: I’ll add, I went to an HBCU and pledged one of the Divine 9.
I’m pretty blackity black, never heard of milk toast
Miki
@Suzanne: Here you go.
That was 1/22/2017, in St. Paul. Huge crowd, est. >100,000.
“Ah, but we were so much smarter thenWe’re dumber than that now.” (With apologies to Mr. Dylan.)
Suzanne
@tobie: Agree! Elevate those people! Build their expertise and their public profiles!
I mean, I remember absolutely gritting my fucken teeth to vote for Kyrsten Sinema. One cannot blame me for being demoralized about it. I got through it by reminding myself that I was really voting for other great Dems to be in the Senate majority, and I accepted that she would be deeply disappointing.
But lots of my politically aware friends didn’t feel that way! They think she sucked — and they were correct — and a few of them didn’t want to cast a ballot for her. I think this is a really bad choice, ultimately harmful. But it’s a dynamic that plays out in lots of places, and I think we can combat it somewhat.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: A poll from January doesn’t mean much given the three years that have happened since then.
satby
@Glory b: it’s supposed to be spelled milquetoast and it means a weak or feeble (person, response, etc.) It most certainly is not a racial insult.
tobie
For years, the Republican base has screamed at Dems, “We’re a republic, not a democracy.” It was a talking point they spouted without any understanding that a republic is a representative democracy bound by laws. Anyhow, I was thinking we could turn their talking point against them with the slogan, “We’re a REPUBLIC, not a friggin MONARCHY.”
Gloria DryGarden
@Glory b: i vaguely believe milquetoast to mean a very bland vanilla not-assertive kind of guy. I don’t associate it w any race or color. The key synonym is bland, perhaps implies not riveting, maybe ineffectual.
ymmv
eta oh, someone already answered.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
I don’t recall that poll, but I have no reason to doubt you.
LOL! Indeed.
Gloria DryGarden
@Elizabelle: yay! Well, that was fun.
ive been having a vertiginous morning.
Omnes Omnibus
@satby: She is aware of that.
Raoul Paste
@Another Scott: …” rather than Snausages…”
Nice
tobie
@Suzanne: You’ve given me some ideas! My district will never elect a Jamie Raskin but if he were willing to come to the district to talk about constitutional issues, the auditorium would be packed. I’ll talk to some local groups about this.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: Good to see you commenting. I missed your level headed commentary.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: I wonder if signs are even allowed? I have no idea.
Ohio Mom
@tobie: Yes, I like that. I think of Trump more as a tyrant than a king but you gotta go with simple language.
lowtechcyclist
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ain’t that the truth!
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: The blog wars of last week have attracted many new trolls. Best to mute them than to engage with their inane comments. This handle told me STFU because Indian men suck.
Glory b
@Omnes Omnibus: And I haven’t said so, but good to hear from you again.
sentient ai from the future
re: milquetoast/”milk toast”
in may 2023, eons ago in the beforetimes, *rump chided kayleigh mcaninny via tweet for something she said about his poll numbers in the primary. he called her “milk toast” and 320 employees of merriam-webster died instantly, with hundreds more wounded.
the language itself has still not recovered
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
After the edit timer on that last reply zeroed out, I had another thought on this:
It’s obviously more complicated than this but we don’t have a central figure to rally around, someone who could get majority agreement amongst all the factions.
Like it or not, “conservatives” crave a Big Daddy in their lives to tell them what to do. That’s their super-power, if you will. We don’t have anything like that … and I sure as hell don’t want it.
Elizabelle
@tobie:
That’s very good.
I tire of seeing the Democrats portrayed as imbeciles and cowards. When it is the GOP that has lined up behind a tyrant.
pajaro
When the State of the Union speech takes place, and the camera is trained on the speaker and the dais, democrats will be invisible. This is not 2019 and 2020, when Nancy Pelosi was speaker, and was visible behind Trump. They can call attention to themselves by being disruptive in the audience, but otherwise, there isn’t an obvious way they can steal the scene, as Pelosi was able to do when she tore up a copy of the speech.
These are not normal times, but I can’t think of an occasion where democrats are more irrelevant. I don’t see how behaving like MTG or Boebert to draw attention to themselves helps anything. They could refuse to attend, but I’m not sure how that helps unless there is some alternative event they could attempt to stage, and it would have to be pretty dramatic to get much coverage.
So sure, they should wear blue and yellow along with their flag pins, and whomever gives the rebuttal should be someone who can convey the gravity of this moment, but I don’t know what else they can or should do.
cmorenc
@Steve LaBonne: Attach the D label to the accomplishments, but don’t parade them as Biden-specific. I know that won’t sit well with the Biden-was-the-greatest-who-was-wronged fan club in here, but explicitly bringing Biden into the argument opens up a distracting shit-show over him rather then the positive substance he & Ds brought over decades when in power.
Spanky
@sentient ai from the future: Yeah, I had a moment of panic a couple of weeks back when I tried to log in to SSA.gov on a Sunday morning. Seems to be a pretty common maintenance time.
lowtechcyclist
@Betty Cracker:
Allowed or not, I doubt that Congresspersons have to go through security between their offices and the House floor. So I wouldn’t think sneaking some signs in under jackets and whatnot should be hard.
Betty Cracker
@Nukular Biskits: I don’t doubt an oppositional approach didn’t poll well in January either, but things have changed on the ground in dramatic fashion since then, what with an unelected right-wing oligarch canceling congressionally established government agencies, shutting down cancer research, decimating agencies that serve veterans and seniors and all.
Spanky
@Glory b: Not to mention that the actual term is milquetoast.
ETA – Ground already covered, I see.
Glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Really?
Thanks for the heads up.
That whole episode was pretty bad, especially considering that some of were saying repeatedly that MM was wrong, but too many people here that I have too much respect for, just ran with it when there was information to the contrary.
Glory b
@Spanky: Thanks for the background info.
lowtechcyclist
@pajaro:
Maybe during the speech itself, but beforehand and afterwards they’ll show the Congresspersons entering the room, mingling, etc. If they’re all wearing blue and yellow, it’ll be quite noticeable to the folks at home, let alone the media.
And my recollection is that the televised view does occasionally take in the audience for brief moments during the speech itself, but I could be wrong about that.
TBone
@E.: I enjoy Paul Simon and his lyrics, it’s not a capital crime. I posted a comment someone else had made, clearly labeled “According to commentary…”
Not my job to dig on command.
Nukular Biskits
@Betty Cracker:
I could be wrong but I think there has been a major shift in this country in the past few weeks wherein it’s starting to filter down to normies and even nominal Trump voters what’s going on … AND THEY DO NOT LIKE IT.
My take is that Democrats should actively take a “Fuck civility” approach as their won’t be any negatives to doing so. Oh, sure, there will be some pantywaists clutching for the smelling salts should Dems actively break norms (when appropriate, not just as a matter of course) but they were never gonna cut Democrats any slack anyway. Bothsides, ya know.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I have my problems with Ds in the leadership especially NP and President Obama in the behavior during the get rid of Biden, saga. But I am not going to blame Ds for the mayhem the Rs are currently causing. Or because they are not all yelling at the top of their lungs to satisfy the performance art and DO SOMETHING lovers who threaten to not vote for Ds when elections roll by.
no body no name
@Gloria DryGarden:
Milk toast is a slag on shitty white people. Updated like cracker was. Cracker is no longer whip cracker but but bland white shit. Just as Karen is a white liberal woman.
jonas
Um..wut?
pajaro
@Betty Cracker:
Betty, I totally respect your view that Democrats should covey the gravity of this moment, but we are three hours in this thread, and no one has come up with a real suggestion of what that action could be as members of the audience. I think that’s because there isn’t a good answer. (As I’ve said elsewhere, I’d like their clothing to show their solidarity with Ukraine). They do need their most effective and least smarmy speaker to give the rebuttal, for whomever is listening, and it’s important that the rebuttal outline the calamity that is occurring and also offer hope (a tall order, but not impossible).
Betty Cracker
@lowtechcyclist: I have no idea if elected members have to go through security or not. If not, maybe someone should smuggle in a carton of eggs. (Kidding. I think.)
@pajaro: There’s got to be a happy medium between shrieking incoherently like MTG and Boebert did at Biden and maintaining the usual decorum. Perhaps coordinated chants?
No Musk! No Coup! No fascist Shiba Inu!
Okay, that’s way too online, but we know the enfeebled orange fascist shitbag is going to tell huge lies about all the unpopular things he and his minions are doing. Maybe a short and snappy rejoinder that conveys opposition to those unpopular actions would work.
Not “You lie,” which would apply to literally every word that comes out of his fetid gob. Something that invokes the victims. Just spit-balling here…
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
Agree, but there are things that our voters need to hear as well as a want to hear. The constant placating of our diverse components rather than giving them home truth has not proved to be a winning strategy.
Omnes Omnibus
@no body no name: Karen is a white liberal woman? Since when?
dww44
@Baud: And the legacy media is very good at refraining from actually calling a spade a spade. It’s more than the bothsiderism that we are accustomed to seeing;it’s a not so subtle obeying to the current administration.
Just a few minutes ago on CBS Sunday Morning Robert Costa interviewed Mathew Continetti, a conservative “thinker” who took the pro Russia take on the whole episode and how conservatives are supportive of Putin because he’s opposed to social progressivism as are American conservatives. This is not your Walter Cronkite’s CBS News. There was no other side.
The clip is not available as yet but it’s at the end before the Warren Buffet interview about his friendship with Katherine Graham during the Watergate era.
We are going to have to wage this resistance without the aid of the legacy media.
sentient ai from the future
@no body no name: what color is the sky in your world?
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: beware. Last time I checked, Karen was not lib.
TBone
@sentient ai from the future: dick jokes trigger finger itchy again.
pajaro
@Nukular Biskits:
I don’t think that channeling our inner Marjorie Taylor Greene’s is a very effective counter to a State of the Union speech. The Republicans tried heckling during Biden’s speech last year. It just made them look low rent, and the speech was one of Biden’t more successful moments last year.
I would have no problem at all with democrats being uncivil, lying down in the aisles, or doing any kind of guerrilla theater if I thought any of it would be effective in the moment. But I don’t think it would help.
JMG
I think the chances are good Trump offers a self-rebuttal during this speech. That is, he goes off the rails in some spectacular fashion because he pretty much hates prepared speeches since they are in effect telling him what to do.
The State of the Union speech is set up to make the President look good and the opposition look weak and irrelevant. Overcoming that is impossible. Wearing blue and yellow would be at least a visual opposition, because no one in the TV audience is gonna listen to a word Slotkin says in her (pretaped and thus irrelevant) rebuttal.
Jackie
@Betty Cracker:
After MTG and others behavior at the SOTU ‘24, “allowing” shouldn’t even apply.
Omnes Omnibus
@TBone: Yes, I am aware.
TBone
@Gloria DryGarden: your understanding matches mine, if that’s any indication. Hahaha!
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: just some added supporting argument.
tobie
@Ohio Mom: How ’bout saying, “We’re citizens, not serfs”? During the Obama years, Republicans claimed to love Friedrich Hayek’s book On the Road to Serfdom. Well, we’re here now.
oldgold
At the SOTU the Democrats should conduct themselves as one would at a disliked neighbors funeral.
In the rebuttal the speaker should let it rip. “Tonight you heard from a bullying billionaire buffoon, who sold your presidency to a bullying billionaire buffoon. They have no regard for you or the truth. Their only interest is money and power.”
Melancholy Jaques
@dww44:
We are going to have to wage this resistance against the legacy media. They made it plain in the last campaign that they are Trump’s allies.
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: That whole episode just made it clear to me, that I need to revive my dormant blog. Get it its own url. Because social media platform can turn shitty in a flash like it did with Twitter.
I was going to do it this fall but life intervened and I had to go back to India for a while and then we had my MIL as a houseguest for months. So that project went on the backburner.
IIts time to revive that project. I want to make it inclusive of a diversity of viewpoints. I would love your input. You can reach me at my blog email.
If anyone else has suggestions I am listening. Thanks.
[email protected]
TBone
@oldgold: right on!
Glory b
@no body no name: Any examples of anyone using it?
sentient ai from the future
@TBone:
yutz comes in here talking about a nonsensical phrase being a racial slur against wypipo, and that musk sucks but jensen huang is great and full disclosure i have friends who work at nvidia and what the dems REALLY need to do is this…
gtfoh
Jackie
Milk toast was the disgusting concoction my mom fed me when I had an intestinal bug when I was little. White toast submerged with heated milk and a dash of cinnamon. Very bland – which was the point.
schrodingers_cat
@Omnes Omnibus: When you are on either end of the horseshoe, liberal is a slur.
RevRick
@Baud:
@Princess:
@lowtechcyclist:
@geg6: @no body no name:
I see a lot of strong opinions about what Democrats in Congress should do in response to Herr Trumpenfuhrer’s SOTU speech. In my opinion, they should do as little as possible to make themselves the focus of discussion afterwards, but instead have the person making the official response unload on Trump. I’d nominate Sen. Raphael Warnock for that task, because preacher’s got game, but again just my opinion, which with $5 and a coupon will get you a breakfast sandwich at Dunkin.
In that post SOTU response, I would emphasize three things:
1). We just heard a pack of lies and Trump’s proposals are stupid;
2). Elon Musk is a fraud and charlatan, who is not making government more efficient;
3). Trump and Republicans in Congress are only interested in one thing: shoveling a ton of money into the laps of millionaires and billionaires;
4). Democrats want to make government effective for you. They want to gut Medicare and Medicaid, we want to strengthen them. They are willing to betray an ally, we stand with Ukraine.
jonas
This is what we need to keep coming back to. That 49.8% of the vote was among registered voters, only about 60% of whom bothered to show up to vote at all. So barely 30% of the country actually voted for this. 30% voted hard against it, and another 40% were too apathetic to care either way, it appears. But that’s 70% of the country who either loathes Trumsk or can be persuaded to loathe Trumsk if someone can make them sit up and see what’s going on. A large part of this country just sort of wanders around with their headphones on thinking about the playoffs and convinced politics have nothing to do with them. They may be about to get a rude awakening when they get laid off because their employer lost an important federal contract or something with some agency Musk randomly shuttered. Dems need to be there to catch these people and make sure they know whose fault that is. The trick is figuring out where people who don’t know anything get their information.
Betty Cracker
@Jackie: I agree but wonder if there’s a reason we haven’t ever seen signs at a presidential address to congress before (at least not that I can remember), i.e., security is pretty tight? Otherwise, why didn’t Greene show up to a SOTU with a photo of Hunter Biden’s dick? Decorum and class surely did not restrain her. Maybe it was lack of imagination. I really don’t know.
pajaro
@Betty Cracker:
I think they need to make the response something that actually meets the moment. I don’t know if they can use video, but clips of airplanes crashing, kids with disease, workers getting fired, and Elon gloating should be featured if they can. If not they need to be described in blunt language. They need to tell the American people that these freaks hate everything that is best about the US, that they are endangering our security abroad and at home, and that the Democrats welcome the calls and letters of the American people whose lives have already been ruined or have been threatened with being ruined. They need to tell the American people that every bad thing that may happen to them in the next few months is the fault of the billionaires who have been given the keys to the government and are in the process of ransacking it. To me, that’s the moment where they can take their gloves off, if they are up to it.
Miki
FYI, MoveOn is doing a Calling BS: Live-chat and Prebuttal to Trump’s Address on Tuesday, with Senator Chris Murphy (D-CT), Senator Brian Schatz (D-HI), Senator Ed Markey (D-MA), Governor Matt Meyer, Michigan Lt. Governor Garlin Gilchrist II, Akilah Hughes, Wajahat Ali, Jay Willis, Molly Jong-Fast, Sarah Cooper, Michael Ian Black, @GoldenGateBlond… and more. Sign up at the link.
Ohio Mom
It’s fun to exercise our imaginations: the Democrats should wear this! The Democrats should do that! I’m guilty of doing so myself.
But we are talking to ourselves. Whatever the Democrats do or don’t do, isn’t up to us. We’ve delegated this to them by voting (donating, writing postcards) for them. I’m going with whatever they come up with.
When there are no obviously good solutions, every solution is good. Or bad, if you are a half-empty person.
TBone
@sentient ai from the future: I too got a bad taste in my mouth earlier this morning, will no longer engage with “nobody.”
Points for use of yutz, haven’t seen that one in a while!
Jackie
@Betty Cracker: I, myself don’t plan to watch the FFOTUS lie, bray and do the YMCA. I’ll watch as Congress enters and see what the attitudes look like.
I have no desire to see if pastor Johnson will even attempt to control his congregation – or if Muskrat shows up in his usual wardrobe with his four year old.
I’ll watch Slotin’s rebuttal – if I’m awake – and catch up on any scandalous behavior via here and the subsequent media clips.
Gloria DryGarden
@TBone: great minds. ..
i appear to have missed a fuck joke. Too early for that.
TBone
@Gloria DryGarden: you have missed nothing!
Glory b
@RevRick: Id love to see Warnock address it, whether the actual rebuttal or some other setting.
Gloria DryGarden
you can make that happen? Be it so..
Melancholy Jaques
@Glory b:
Never thought of it as a race thing, but I do believe it is milquetoast. Or at least I want it to be because it’s a fancy ass insult for a feeble person.
TBone
@Melancholy Jaques: you are correct, sir.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: I don’t see anything about signs in the 118th Congress House Rules (52 page .pdf) when I searched for “sign”.
We know that they allow posters when having floor debates. We also remember that the MAGAts threw a fit when the Ukraine supplemental was finally approved and in the celebration someone had a Ukraine flag on the floor (and the MAGAts later tried to pass some Resolution prohibiting such things – don’t know if they succeeded – with exceptions for lapel pins).
I suspect there are rules against signs during Joint Sessions. But i dunno either.
Thanks.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Betty Cracker
@pajaro: Agreed. Some Dems are doing a great job of that already, IMO. The question is how or even if the SOTU can be leveraged to drive it home. Slotkin is giving the official rebuttal, which is an opportunity, albeit limited. She’s a moderate, but nothing you said is inconsistent with that, IMO.
karen gail
@Glory b: Milk toast was what one was given when sick; soft and easy to swallow.
The term milquetoast is from a character in a comic “Casper Milquetoast” from the early 1900’s; I paid attention to the trivia Grandpa remembered.
Miki
@Jackie: Same, here. But my mom added a healthy glug of Watkins Liniment (FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY)
Anyway
@RevRick:
McMuffins are a $1 today – It’s the 50th anniversary. Surprised at the promo given the price of eggs.
Melancholy Jaques
@Steve LaBonne:
Isn’t that what’s expected after a devastating loss?
I agree it’s mostly a waste of time & energy, but hurt people are going to express their pain. Eventually, they will get bored with it & move on.
And on the subject of Very Real Accomplishments of the Democratic Party, can we get a list of those? Because according to all the polls, the American people, even people who vote for Democrats, don’t see to be aware of any of them.
Anyway
good summary, strong. I like it.
lowtechcyclist
@Anyway:
Is the Egg McMuffin something they serve all day? Here in the Eastern time zone, it’s well past the time they serve from the breakfast menu.
Professor Bigfoot
@Omnes Omnibus: See, there you go again, making sense.
Good to see ya!
Jackie
@Miki:
LOL! And YUK! Obviously you survived… ;D
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist:
Yes! That was my thought exactly!
Melancholy Jaques
@Betty Cracker:
No, it’s not popular, but it’s more popular than us Democrats & whatever it is that we are offering. (Do people know what that is?)
People will object to this thing or that thing, but they still do not see that what they object to is the direct result of their vote for Trump & Republicans.
Jeffro
since what we need in this thread are more opinions about what Dems should do during the SOTU, here’s mine
either a) boycott or b) mutter “lies, lies, lies” every time trumpov lies…x 215 Dem “mutterers”, the effect should be quite something
it’ll drive him nuts either way
WaterGirl
@sentient ai from the future: You’re not shouting at phantoms. Glad this one is resolved, though.
Elizabelle
@Miki: Thank you. Signed up.
The Murphy-Schatz Prebuttal is 8:15 to 10:30 pm Tuesday night.
And: Red Wine & Blue is hosting Dr. Timothy Snyder (On Tyranny) for a free 7:30-8:30 pm Real State of the Union Zoom. (Video will be available after the fact on RWB website, I would guess.)
SO: no reason we need to listen to The Felon or any of the MSM courtesan media fluffing him pre or post SOTU.
It is a sin that he is giving one at all, but that ship sailed in November.
Anyway
I don’t know — I wondered too but didn’t check the fine print …
saw eggs priced at $11.99 a dozen yesterday!
unlike many jackals I like eggs for (weekend) breakfast.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: But I think we can all agree that the rights of ALL those groups are paramount; that “we must hang together or we shall surely hang separately,” that if we abandon the rights of any one of those groups at any time, we are all fucked.
I’m waiting to see someone suggest abandoning, for example, trans rights in order to make inroads in the American* electorate, and fuck that shit.
chemiclord
@no body no name: The fundamental problem is that the Democrats also need those “professional white liberals” to have the numbers necessary for a majority. You can’t just tell them to piss off either, because they are also one of the most engaged groups that always show up on Election Day.
karen gail
@Jackie: I got the same thing; only good part was if Grandma made since she used her homemade cinnamon buns instead of bread.
Professor Bigfoot
@Glory b: Longtime Black man here, also an HBCU grad (but not Greek), grew up in a city with three HBCUs, spent plenty of time in two of their libraries and me, neither.
arrieve
@Ohio Mom:
Absolutely true. But I think that the Dems should save the rebuttal for the official response (not that anyone will watch that.) I really like the idea of them all wearing yellow and blue and sitting in absolute silence. Especially because it will drive the Orange Felon bonkers and if he has a meltdown in the middle of the speech it might wake a few people up. (Not likely I know, but let them try to spin that.)
Betty Cracker
@Melancholy Jaques: I think that’s true of most but not all 2024 Trump voters, but given the margins that decide modern elections, reaching the people who aren’t fully in the cult matters. (Yes, I want to dope-slap those motherfuckers too, but I’m trying to be practical here…)
Trump’s 2024 campaign was a bait and switch. He explicitly disavowed Project 2025 because it was unpopular but is now implementing it as written. Everyone wants the government to run more efficiently, but no one voted for Musk to go wilding illegally through federal agencies we depend on, award himself multibillion-dollar contracts, etc. We have an opportunity here.
zhena gogolia
@Professor Bigfoot: I went to a diverse (as in 5% white) inner-city high school, and I never heard that either.
But then I’m a Boomer.
Professor Bigfoot
@lowtechcyclist: They do breakfast ‘til 11 AM on the weekends.
Yes, I got a $1 Sausage McMuffin this morning at 10:48.
No One of Consequence
For your consideration:
I’ve read this thread and another regards the State of the Union. While it would require a discipline rarely seen in our caucus, I posit that a wardrobe of flat black, with the only color being Ukraine accents of blue and yellow be the dress of the evening. Accompanied by unanimously stone-faced Dem representatives, for the entirety. Upon arrival, through filing in, to be seated and to not to stand until the conclusion. No applause, no smiles, no yawns, not a single word of chatter, comity or good nature. Upon conclusion of the affair, rise and file out, again no word spoken, no handshakes exchanged, no smiles.
Reflect the gravity of our current situation, without contributing a single atom of oxygen.
The response, if one is provided at all, should be short, extremely so. It should contain 3 messages and only 3, and these should be our best efforts at framing the current state in a way that has longevity for the next while for use in rallying cries and repetition.
-NOoC
geg6
@Suzanne:
Exactly.
Professor Bigfoot
@zhena gogolia: Sure you’re not a Joneser?
I mislike being lumped in with those old codgers and their Vietnam War hatred for LBJ (tho I DO understand their ire).
lowtechcyclist
@Professor Bigfoot:
This!!
One of the things that got me to the point, during the Biden years, that I could finally say I was proud to be a Democrat, was that the party, under Biden’s leadership, wasn’t throwing anybody under the bus in order to try to kowtow to the proverbial white working class. Not Blacks, not gay or trans persons, nobody as far as I could tell.
And so far, anyway, I haven’t heard any prominent Dems even suggest that we should do such a thing. Thank goodness. I’d hate to have to track them down and kick them in the butt.
I hear people ask, what are Democratic values? Well, inclusion is one of them. We want everyone to have the same rights any of us do. We want everyone to be able to share in the prosperity that this country is capable of creating. We want everyone to have a say in how this country is run, rather than a bunch of oligarchs using their sofa cushion change to push voters’ buttons in a way that gives all the power to them.
different-church-lady
@no body no name:
Hakeem Jeffries is on the line with a news update for you.
Mr. Bemused Senior
In yesterday’s Zoom with Elle Reeve she made a similar suggestion, pointing out that that’s the approach the right-wing takes online.
Also, I’m glad to see you.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: Our voters are okay. It’s our non-voters who are idiots.
Betty Cracker
@Ohio Mom:
I want to push back on that just a little bit. Lots of folks in this community are actively involved in politics offline, either as volunteers for Democratic candidates, committee people in their local party, activists groups for liberal causes, etc. Some have run for office themselves.
Even if we’re not formally playing a role in shaping party messages, in however small a way, maybe we’re speaking to or writing to MOCs, etc. In those situations, we do have a voice and a role to play if we choose, and it can really help to have discussed it with people who share the same general goals to identify and communicate our priorities.
I’ll use myself as an example: I’ve done phone-banking and canvassing, plus been a volunteer with a voting rights org where I was specifically tasked with creating messaging around that topic. I learned a lot I could apply in a practical sense discussing, spit-balling and even arguing with you cantankerous lot. Ditto in casual conversations with friends who aren’t as politically involved.
geg6
@Spanky:
As someone who, until retirement in September, interacted with the VA online system for professional reasons, that is correct. Weekends are often maintenance times.
different-church-lady
@Baud: Darwin finds a way.
Jackie
@karen gail:
I would have faked being sick so often… lol
lowtechcyclist
@Professor Bigfoot:
Good for you! I missed that particular opportunity, but glad some of the rest of you got to take advantage.
Glory b
@sentient ai from the future: Okay, that was the first time I laughed out loud today.
dww44
@No One of Consequence: I endorse all of this.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: (a) Republicanism has been reduced to circus clowns, reality TV idiots, and WWE characters. (b) We are not good at that, and our voters don’t like it. (c) If we try it, we just look like people who are bad at being circus clowns, reality TV idiots, and WWE characters. (d) That ends up playing badly to both audiences.
No, I don’t have a viable alternative to offer.
different-church-lady
@No One of Consequence:
Armbands, symbolizing the death of democracy.
different-church-lady
@Anyway: There’s eggs in those things?
pajaro
@Melancholy Jaques:
It’s kind of a conundrum to ask the party out of power in a national legislature what they have accomplished, particularly given that our new reality is not even two months old. I suppose we would need to point to harms that were averted, in cases where democrats had the ability to forestall the majority, a process that may yield some answers during the budget negotiations, where their votes are actually needed.
So going to the recent accomplishments of the party that is no longer in power, I assume people are aware of the fact that they have jobs (that we are at full employment), which many did not when Biden took office, and that the rate of inflation has gone down. They know that for the last four years their children haven’t been asked to fight and die in a foreign war. They may be aware of some of the infrastructure improvement that Democratic bills helped bring on line. They may be aware that at present, women who are in need of abortions can, in states where democrats are in power, have access to them. If they have investment, they are aware of how well the equity markets have done under Biden. If they live in a blue state, they can be thankful that, in the main, they have people in power who give a damn about them.
different-church-lady
@M31:
I’m afraid the answer they’d give is, “Delightful!”
different-church-lady
@pajaro:
Murc’s Law is a harsh mistress.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Yeah, I don’t want to see what MTG would do with that.
ETA: or Boebert.
Anyway
Score! I really wanted one but haven’t made it out the house …
Matt McIrvin
@lowtechcyclist:
There’s been some “throw the trans people under the bus” movement in Congress. Not from the party leaders
It’s a major theme in The Atlantic’s “Whither Democrats?” pseudo-advice genre.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
The sports bill got two Dem votes in the House. Not much of a movement.
Jackie
Looks like we need to focus on Wisconsin:
geg6
@RevRick:
Sure, fine. And the ten people who actually watch it will be inspired.
Sorry, but IMHO conventional thinking about how to communicate to voters is one of the main things that got us here. I’m not insane, so I don’t think doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is very effective. We need to try something different and out of the box too many seem to be content to sit in.
Amazing how, in my senior years, I’ve become what seems to be a radical.
frosty
@Betty Cracker: “… react to the occasion of the fascist felon’s speech in a manner that conveys they understand the scale of the emergency.”
I’m with you on this. We can’t get our message out with the usual channels, so seize this opportunity
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: I’m still amazed that the party didn’t move rightward on gay rights after 2004. So many people were telling them to throw the gays under the bus to get the “values voters”. But it didn’t really happen; if anything, the movement was in the other direction.
different-church-lady
@Matt McIrvin: Hmmm… 2004… 2004…. What was the thing that started to catch fire a few years after 2004?
geg6
@Professor Bigfoot:
Same. Born 1958 and my experiences do not match those of my older brothers and sisters. I resent being called a Boomer because I’m not really one and same for GenX. I feel somewhere in between.
hoytwillrise
@TBone: Except for Los Lobos, from whom he stole a song.
frosty
@geg6: Here you go. I haven’t been happy with Late Boomer either. I figure Boomer is 45 to 55: the ages where men could have been drafted for Vietnam.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones
Professor Bigfoot
@Anyway: Never said I got dressed… and thank goodness for drive-thrus! LOL
Professor Bigfoot
@Matt McIrvin: Further evidence that we and the Dems are NOT “the baddies.”
Old Dan and Little Ann
The Democrats should do the fake coughing / clearing of the throat gag where they are actually saying bullshit……bullshit.
Professor Bigfoot
@frosty: That’s it– we Jonesers didn’t have the threat of the draft hanging over our heads.
I (’57 Model Year) am always put in with the Boomers, but I completely identify with the things GenX boasts about (going all over town on our bikes, staying out ’til the streetlights came on, drinking from the garden hose, etc. etc. etc.
BUT one thing to keep in mind is that white male Jonesers are the first generation who actually had to compete with women and with non-white people, and so a lot of them turned Trump.
different-church-lady
@Old Dan and Little Ann: OMG, if you could get 180 people to do it in sync it would be hysterical.
different-church-lady
@Professor Bigfoot:
Ah, so born in 1956?
Professor Bigfoot
@different-church-lady: Actually produced late in the model year, but the entire construction process occurred in the year. ;)
Professor Bigfoot
@different-church-lady: I’ve stayed out of the “Dems should oughta do this or that” arguments; but that’s a very Balloon Juice idea– so much snark.
It occurs to me that they could also laugh uproariously at his bullshit.
Any way to make fun of them, to ridicule them as the grifting morons they really are.
Other MJS
For the rebuttal, show this clip from Marco v1.0.
WTFGhost
@Baud: Again, Republicans avoid this problem by constantly campaigning on “gee, those Democrats sure do suck, don’t they?” issue ads.
Now, if there were Democratic influencers and think tanks and super-PACs, the question shouldn’t be “how can we combine with an overarching message for D over R,” it should be “how can we blame Rs for everything that annoys people, from DST to the price of eggs to the laws of physics, if it annoys people, it’s all REPUBLICAN.”
No Democrat can be shamed for being part of the effort, since they can’t coordinate their messages with the evil leftists behind the superpac. “And besides, personally, we *don’t* think our Rs are *murderers* for killing women with abortion bans, we think they’re just… stupid-that’s-off-the-record misguided.”
(“Ooops – I tried to correct the record, and say ‘misguided’.”)
Microtargeting means hitting a nice R suburbanite with a Hallmark-style commercial during her Hallmark movie that doesn’t throw blood and guts around, but, reliably makes people feel *uncomfortable*. Not enough to change the channel, see, just… uncomfortable.
Hit them with that 20 times over the course of a year, along with 20x of 4-5 other ads, and this nice R suburban lady *really* doesn’t like Trump’s unhinged bombast any longer, and thinks Vance looks like someone you’d kick away from the door as a vagrant, yes, even though he’s wearing a suit and tie. He’d say “well, getting kicked off people’s doorsteps is funny ah… ha ha… ha!”
lowtechcyclist
@geg6:
This. I agree with Omnes that we should see what works and do more of it, but that can’t work if we don’t actually try anything different.
Omnes Omnibus
@lowtechcyclist: Various Democrats are doing different things. We need to see which things work.
tam1MI
@Baud:Pelosi doesn’t run anything anymore.
Not officially. But in real terms, if she can ram a cancer-stricken nonentity into a key committee position over AOC, she runs things.
lowtechcyclist
@frosty:
I was born in 1954. They didn’t draft anyone from my year, and it was clear in advance that they weren’t going to.
They did give us draft cards, but they didn’t really mean anything. I think we all got the classification 1-H, which meant “we aren’t going to take the trouble to classify you.”
The problem with the Baby Boom is that it was a very real demographic phenomenon, and 1946-1964 is the correct definition for that phenomenon.
Culturally, I think music is a good marker. If you were practically done with high school before the British Invasion came along, like the 1946 kids did, then you’re very different culturally from us early to mid 1950s kids. But if you were listening to disco in high school, like the kids born in the early 1960s were, then same thing is true in the other direction.
I don’t know where one draws the lines, but obviously the people who were born across the 19-year span from 1/1/1946 to 12/31/1964 grew up in a few distinctly different worlds.
WTFGhost
@Betty Cracker: I maintain the opinion that much of what she is saying is correct for individual house members to try to stay in office, so they can win the majority and do something. Do we need Ds competing with each other for a “Euell-eye!” moment? No.
Do we need Dems making good trouble, in ways they are best suited for? Yes – but some will not finesse it right, and lose due to relentless attack ads over a single flub. Pelosi is thinking more of that than thinking of “how do we put our thumb in in Trump’s eye?” She’s thinking “these people need to both fund the government, *and* expand the debt limit, with a tiny majority, some of whom won’t expand the debt limit unless DOGE changes are made legislatively permanent, others of whom are arguing that whatever DOGE does doesn’t count.
She wants them to fail, and expects them to do so.
Is she “wrong”? Well… what did you – you personally – know about her before her masterful takeover of the ACA to get it over the finish line, all through normal congressional procedure? I didn’t know her at all. So, I am not asking “why isn’t she doing what she did in the past,” because I don’t think she did anything in the past to be noisy.
Should *someone* be making noise, and sticking potatoes in tailpipes, and leaving cans of frozen soup near Trump events, so he can be terrified of another assassin, and, so forth? Yes. And it does feel like the Ds aren’t fighting back, but that hearkens back to how we don’t have a liberal communications infrastructure to funnel the anger and energy to where it can do good.
LAC
@Glory b:
What does milk toast person mean?
a timid, meek
Merriam-Webster defines “milquetoast” as “a timid, meek, or unassertive person,” the implication being that a “milquetoast” person is afraid to stand up, worried about backlash. By literary extension, things can be “milquetoast” as well. Yes, it’s mostly used as an insult
Still “researching” the ummmm. ..racial aspect of the word. We boomers can learn new things, right? Maybe the youngster misheard Richard Roundtree use it in a Shaft movie he watched late night. You know, “honky…milk toast”.
WTFGhost
@Matt McIrvin: In 2004, there was a gamble – “are there more gay-friendly voters, than there are bigots?”
You’re right: it was better (with 20/20 hindsight) to have gone full throated “we will fight for civil rights for gay people!” and take the L (which we were going to take anyway in 2004 – again, 20/20 hindsight), to avoid being squishy, and getting squished.
The reason for that is the obvious reason: you *can’t* out-bigot the bigots, and you can’t be wishy-washy.
Again, this is why Dems need more superpacs, to target ads to people to move the overton window, *then* a politician can step into it, *then* move it, with bold action that they’ve tested using that very same superpac (but without actual *coordination*, of course).
“Influencers” and social media folks can help, too, but, microtargeting is simply too powerful to try to combat with brute force. If someone knows your zip code and your ten favorite movies, they probably can figure out how to run an ad that hits you right in the feels. (“right in the feels” – is that still a thing?) And I don’t mean “anonymous user blahblahblah,” no, they know you – probably your name, address, any and all public records, etc. by your ten favorite movies and zip code, plus other information they’ve hoovered up about you.
They know what images and what words are likely to resonate – they know what movies you keep watching, remember? – and they know how old you are, what kinds of ads influence your behavior, etc., etc., ad nauseam.
Glory b
@LAC: Ha!
UncleEbeneezer
@Professor Bigfoot: I’ve been listening to a couple Black comedy podcasts for years, that don’t hold back on mocking White People with all sorts of derisive names. In ten years, I’ve never heard milk or milquetoast used. “Mayo” comes up frequently in numerous variations, but never “milktoast.” This seems like a white-person, persecution fantasy.
UncleEbeneezer
@LAC: It is something so ridiculous that I could see it coming straight out of the mouth Black Dynamite.
tam1MI
@cmorenc: Attach the D label to the accomplishments, but don’t parade them as Biden-specific. I know that won’t sit well with the Biden-was-the-greatest-who-was-wronged fan club in here, but explicitly bringing Biden into the argument opens up a distracting shit-show over him rather then the positive substance he & Ds brought over decades when in power.
I am practically the President of the Biden Fan Club here, and I am absolutely fine with this. Because these things WEREN’T Biden-specific. They were things the Dems have stood for, for years.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@catclub: I did. Profound waste of my time it was.
Remember the risotto recipe?
Geminid
@tam1MI: The Democratic House Caucus voted for Connolly over Ocasio-Cortez by 126 to 89. Those Democratic Representatives care as much about effective leadership of Oversight Committee as you or I do. The 126 who voted for Connolly did so because they thought Connolly would be more effective, not because Nancy Pelosi told them to.
And Rep. Connolly isn’t a “nonentity.” A lot of people never heard of Connolly until this controversy over Oversight Committee, but that’s because they pay so little attention to the actual workings of Congress. Any Capitol Hill reporter would tell you that Connolly has a reputation as a tenacious defender of public interests in general and federal employees in particular.
tam1MI
@schrodingers_cat: I have no suggestions, but I do want to say that when you get that blog up and running, please post a link here because I will most happily follow it!
WTFGhost
@Glory b: Well – best answer you could get would be asking a few elderly Black people, “did you ever hear that? What did it mean?” because I think it might be something that isn’t easy to research right now. It might have been an insult that lived for a time, died, and it was pre-internet, so you can’t try urban dictionary. (urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Milktoast – but, it doesn’t include anything explicitly racial.)
My thoughts were, toast is brown, milk is white, and I do know that passing (being “too white appearing”) dug at some people in the past. If it *does* involve passing, well… most people don’t even know of the existence of, e.g., “paper bag parties” where you had to be dark skinned enough to come in, and otherwise, were not permitted. (Most Black people didn’t go to college, and also may not have heard of paper bag parties – I believe they were a college thing.)
So: if you needed to know, your best reference might be living history.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@MazeDancer: Last time we put the queen of orange hearts in charge of things, tons of people copied everything.
Universities and colleges store the actual printed study still, don’t they?
If not, if not…
worse then the burning of the library of Alexandria or the soldier pope’s dismantling of the Vatican’s library reference system
You just made my head hurt
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Another Scott: Thank goodness
Thank you for your quick response.
LAC
@UncleEbeneezer: Ha! Yes, it could also be the oldie but goodie, Dolemite!
tam1MI
@Jackie: I, myself don’t plan to watch the FFOTUS lie, bray and do the YMCA. I’ll watch as Congress enters and see what the attitudes look like.
Don’t watch at all. Deny them the ratings. Tune into the rebuttal only.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Betty Cracker: I agree. I think that would leave the impression with all of our too busy neighbors that this is normal.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@sentient ai from the future: Ok
back to hyperventilating
Mr. Bemused Senior
@LAC: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Milquetoast
This is the only reference I know.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Betty Cracker: I think we should oust reliance on polling.
Nearly nothing the current administration does polls well. Yet, they keep right on doing it and lying about it again and again and again.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Spanky:
Having heard “milk toast” tossed about and recognizing it was not being used quite like “milquetoast” in the past, I looked it up at the Urban Dictionary.
Here you go
Sounds a lot like “milquetoast”.
urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Milktoast
UncleEbeneezer
@tam1MI: Nah. If people are still gonna bash Biden over Gaza, Ukraine, the debate, The Crime Bill, Anita Hill, etc., then I’m gonna make damn sure people remember the stuff that passed with HIS signing of the Presidential pen. I’m not gonna let haters memory-hole all the great things he accomplished.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Omnes Omnibus:
She is not liberal. Betty was not either. She does the ladies republican lunch.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@tobie: I never got the impression any of them had read Hayek, or Adam Smith.
Bill Arnold
@MazeDancer:
I was playing with that a bit. It looked like a nameserver thing; a vpn endpoint endpoint in europe was not resolving the url; and a usa ip address was.
Still investigating. It looks like the name server from that european ip address is resolving now.
Not good, to be clear, even if e.g. it was some stunt to freak people out about the USA coup, it’s way too fragile.
Glidwrith
@MazeDancer: The Pubmed site responded and is intact using my phone Safari browser.
schrodingers_cat
@HopefullyNotcassandra: I don’t think they read.
tam1MI
Good point. And it fits right in with my feeling that if they want the Biden supporters to shut up about how great a president he was, they better shut up about how shitty they thought he was.
cain
@Jackie: everyone should show up with pictures of republicans wearing yellow and blue flag pins.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Professor Bigfoot: I agree. Everybody’s rights are tied up in everybody else’s rights. We either are all created equal, or it is all a nihilistic fools’ game where might makes right and Maleagent/Melwas gets to crush us all.
Matt
Sure they’ve already skullfucked the country so hard that it’ll take years to repair the damage, but let’s not be IMPOLITE or anything!
JFC the national leadership is pathetic.
Geminid
@cain: I think the Democrats themselves should all show up wearing blue-and-yellow pins in order to demonstrate support for Ukraine.
Beyond that, I am more interested in seeing what Congressional Democrats actually do than telling others what I think they should do. My attitude is that while I am an amateur political strategist, and those 47 Democratic Senators and 215 Democratic Representatives are practical political practitioners.
I’m not saying they will always choose the best cource, but they are making these decisions with a much better base of knowledge than mine. Being a curious person when it comes to politics, I want to see how Congressional Democrats deal with this particular question.
There will be plenty of discussion after the event, and I might have an opinion then. But I’ll try to keep an open mind until then.
pajaro
@Matt:
you understand that impolite and effective aren’t the same thing? she is not arguing for being polite because of etiquette FFS, she’s making a prediction about what is likely to be most useful.
Jackie
@cain:
Ooooh! I like that idea!
KRK
@WTFGhost:
You don’t need to explain any of that to Glory b, who is Black and went to an HBCU. She knows what she’s talking about.
The person claiming that “milk toast” is a racial insult could use some of that energy, though.
TBone
Apparently, nobody read the links at #33 or the insubordination notice. Hint: I am from there, not here for anyone’s bullshit.
Chris T.
@satby:
As opposed to Melba toast, which is anti Australian (Melbourne). Or is it pro Australian? Oh wait, it’s Italian, “Able was I ere I saw Melba”.
(/s? 🤪? 😇)
(PS, just to forestall corrections to deliberate silliness: Melba toast is named after Dame Nellie Melba, an Australian who really did take the name from Melbourne. I just thought it would be funnier to go further and further astray. Sigh, explain and spoil the joke…)
RaflW
All the Democratic men should dress like Zelensky. Women also pretty somber. Probably too late to all get twin-flag pins with an American flag and Ukraine flag paired. If Dems only wear Ukraine ones, the hullabaloo by the wing nut Wurlitzer about “disloyalty” would be deafening.
I’m coming around to the idea that Democrats sit mostly stone-faced and silent.
The key, but I am not hopeful: Dems fly back and on Fri-Sat hold “SOTU feedback sessions” in their districts, but as close to the lines of their Republican neighbor districts as practical.
Invite people from the R districts to attend. Make noise in the local media about GOP timidity/unwillingness to hear their constituents worries.