I’ll sum up Trump's speech for those who missed it:
He's raising costs for families with pointless trade wars.
He’s slashing health care for seniors and families.
He's going after the CHIPS Act and all the jobs it created.
And he’s abandoning allies for Putin.— Captain Mark Kelly (@captmarkkelly.bsky.social) March 4, 2025 at 11:19 PM
Not saying it’ll be this particular woman — don’t know if she even wants the job — but I have to disagree with Betty Cracker’s earlier assessment: When we do finally get our first female president, it’s gonna be someone very like Senator Slotkin — a proudly centrist, ‘practical’ professional, who will set our liberal teeth on edge at least once in every speech. I’m just wondering whether she’ll get there as Pete Buttigieg’s vice president, or whether he’ll be hers.
Here’s the PBS transcript. Beware hasty / dishonest edits on social media:
… I won’t take it personally if you’ve never heard of me. I’m the new senator from the great state of Michigan, where I grew up. I’ve been in public service my entire life, because I happened to be in New York City on 9/11 when the twin towers came down. Before the smoke cleared, I knew I wanted a life in national security.
I was recruited by the CIA and did three tours in Iraq, alongside the military. In between, I worked at the White House under President Bush and President Obama, two very different leaders who both believed that America is exceptional.
You can find that same sense of patriotism here in Wyandotte, Michigan, where I am tonight. It’s a working-class town just south of Detroit. President Trump and I both won here in November. It might not seem like it, but plenty of places like this still exist all across the United States – places where people believe that if you work hard, and play by the rules, you should do well and your kids do better…
We just went through another fraught election season. Americans made it clear that prices are too high and that government needs to be more responsive to their needs. America wants change. But there is a responsible way to make change, and a reckless way. And, we can make that change without forgetting who we are as a country, and as a democracy…
Look, President Trump talked a big game on the economy, but it’s always important to read the fine print. So: do his plans actually help Americans get ahead?
Not even close.
President Trump is trying to deliver an unprecedented giveaway to his billionaire friends. He’s on the hunt to find trillions of dollars to pass along to the wealthiest in America. And to do that, he’s going to make you pay in every part of your life…
While we’re on the subject of Elon Musk, is there anyone in America who is comfortable with him and his gang of 20-year-olds using their own computer servers to poke through your tax returns, your health information, and your bank accounts? No oversight. No protections against cyber-attack. No guardrails on what they do with your private data…
President Trump loves to promise “peace through strength.” That’s actually a line he stole from Ronald Reagan. But let me tell you, after the spectacle that just took place in the Oval Office last week, Reagan must be rolling over in his grave. We all want an end to the war in Ukraine, but Reagan understood that true strength required America to combine our military and economic might with moral clarity.
And that scene in the Oval Office wasn’t just a bad episode of reality TV. It summed up Trump’s whole approach to the world. He believes in cozying up to dictators like Vladimir Putin and kicking our friends, like Canada, in the teeth. He sees American leadership as merely a series of real estate transactions.
As a Cold War kid, I’m thankful it was Reagan and not Trump in office in the 1980s. Trump would have lost us the Cold War…
So as much as we need to make our government more responsive to our lives today, don’t for one moment fool yourself that democracy isn’t precious and worth saving.
But how do we actually do that? I know a lot of you have been asking that question.
First, don’t tune out. It’s easy to be exhausted, but America needs you now more than ever. If previous generations had not fought for democracy, where would we be today?
Second, hold your elected officials, including me, accountable. Watch how they’re voting. Go to town halls and demand they take action. That’s as American as apple pie.
Three, organize. Pick just one issue you’re passionate about — and engage. And doom scrolling doesn’t count. Join a group that cares about your issue, and act. And if you can’t find one, start one…
Other Democratic responses, per the Washington Post:
… At different points in the night, Democrats held up signs in the chamber that said, “This is not normal,” “False” and “Musk steals.” Some stood up and turned their backs to Trump, revealing shirts that said “RESIST” on the back before silently leaving the chamber. And early on in the president’s remarks, Democratic Rep. Al Green (Texas), stood up, shouted and shook his cane at Trump — prompting House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-Louisiana) to order his removal from the chamber…
Since 2018 — when she ran for the House as part of a wave of women who sought public office in response to Trump’s first presidency — Slotkin has positioned herself as a moderate, championing abortion rights, a ban on assault weapons, lowering prescription drug costs and pushing for economic opportunities for the middle class. During last year’s campaign, she picked up an endorsement from former congresswoman Liz Cheney, the Wyoming Republican who campaigned against Trump and his allies down the stretch.
On the Senate campaign trail, Rogers portrayed Slotkin as too liberal for Michigan, saying she was consistently in line with President Joe Biden’s policies on inflation and border policy. Slotkin, however, argued that her national security background inoculated her somewhat from those attacks.
“My background maybe runs counter to type with what their stereotype of a Democrat is,” Slotkin told The Washington Post in August. “It’s hard to say that the CIA officer is too woke. You know what I mean?”…
Rep. Al Green addresses reporters after being escorted out by the Sergeant At Arms.
"It's worth it to let people know that there's some of us who are going to stand up."#StateOfTheUnion pic.twitter.com/doyPIsQqPm
— Def Pen (@DefPen) March 5, 2025
It looks like all the Democrats' seats were empty by the time he finished his speech.
— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec.bsky.social) March 4, 2025 at 11:01 PM
Betty Cracker
Hey, my assessment wasn’t harsh — I gave Slotkin a B+! I could see her or someone like her as POTUS. I personally find any hint of Reagan hagiography gross but understand it plays well in certain needed regions.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker: Now if you talked to my students, you’d know that B+ is a terrible grade!
Betty Cracker
@zhena gogolia: Haha, I don’t blame them! I was mortified to receive anything less than an A back in the day myself!
satby
Pretty much agree. Most of the country is “moderate” even though most Democratic “liberal” policies are very popular. I think that was part of Joe Biden’s success, he presented as a traditional moderate Democrat while enacting some of the best progressive policies of my lifetime.
WereBear
Whatever we do, will they believe a Democrat? Studies show their brain turns off then. They won’t listen.
Ocotillo
Slotkin and Pete would not be able to be on the same ticket unless one changes residency to another state, both are Michigan residents now.
Baud
@satby:
Unfortunately, we get defined by our unpopular policies.
Chip Daniels
Regarding the word “centrist” which is going to be getting a lot of workout.
In a battle against tyranny and repression, there is no center.
It doesn’t matter what you think tax rates ought to be, or whether this or that regulation is good or bad. It doesn’t matter what your position on foreign policy is or whther we should relax or tighten trade or immigration policy.
All those questions are now academic and irrelevant.
The only question, the only issue, is, are we a free people or subjects? Do we defend the rule of law and equality of all persons, or not?
These are binary questions, yes or no. It isn’t possible for trans people to be “sort of” equal, or for immigrants to be kinda entitled to due process and human rights. The courts are either independent of the executive or they aren’t.
Whoever we lift up to be our standard bearer needs to get this and loudly champion these things otherwise we are just offering a pale imitation of the tyrant.
PJ
I know why Slotkin was chosen, but I don’t think now is the time to veer towards the center (right). If we get through this disaster, I will support the Democratic candidate who tells the truth about Reagan.
mali muso
I skipped the speech completely and didn’t follow any reactions on social media. Instead my husband and I finished up season 2 of the LOTR – Rings of Power. If I want to see orcs destroying society, I’d rather it be fantasy. One line that stuck with me near the end of the episode was something along the lines of “things change and things are lost. they don’t go back to what they were. all we can do is go forward.” It resonated with me because as much as I wish we were not living through these evil times, it seems like all we can do is go one step at a time and push for a completely new and different future than whatever stasis we were living in.
Baud
@PJ:
Reagan hated Russia and wasn’t a traitor. That’s our bar now.
Baud
@mali muso:
Profound and true quote.
If we do come back, we won’t be able to restore all that was lost, no matter how many people cry out for justice.
NotMax
Musical review of yesterday’s lie-a-thon.
Baud
I do like this.
schrodingers_cat
@PJ: Biden governed as a proud liberal. He delivered on the progressive wish list. He never got much credit for his legislative victories or his foreign policy chops from the aforementioned leftists. He ended his term as “Genocide Joe”.
So the next D to become President is not going to follow in his footsteps
That said I have no opinion about Slotkin and I think it is too early to speculate about 2028 nominee.
tobie
I read parts of Hobbes’s Leviathan during the speech. I thought I should educate myself on what an absolute monarch is. Then I called my mother–she turns 96 today–and her first question was, “Is fuckface off the TV yet?”
Baud
@tobie:
Awesome mom.
zhena gogolia
@tobie: Good for her! That’s my sobriquet for him as well.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I spoke to my Dad this weekend and he blamed the Orange Error for tanking the Indian stock market.
TONYG
@Betty Cracker: Well, this is where we are as a country. As far as I’m concerned, Reagan and the two Bushes were three of the worst presidents in history. But Trump is an order of magnitude worse.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
The only good thing possible out of this horror is that Trump kills off the fascist movement worldwide.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Agreed.
Betty Cracker
@mali muso: Haven’t seen the series — is it worth watching? (I loved the books as a kid and liked the Peter Jackson movies, fwiw.)
That quote resonates for me too. I think Biden offered the last chance for a “return to normalcy.” It was accepted initially, but then 49.8% of the electorate rejected that project.
After this lawless, corrupt shit-show, there has to be a reckoning and an acknowledgement that the old ways don’t suit the modern era, e.g., “norms,” like the expectation that politicians will serve the country’s interests rather than their own, must be codified. Either that, or we’ll do this on loop until it all falls apart.
different-church-lady
@Baud: We did that once.
[Sips coffee]
Whole lotta people died, but but it got done.
different-church-lady
@Baud: It’s too early to speculate about a 2028 election.
eclare
@tobie:
Happy birthday to a great mom!
different-church-lady
@Baud: From each according to his ability…
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Baud: I want justice, but I’ll settle for vengeance if that’s the only thing that will stop the monsters. Like a different tech billionaire almost said, if we can’t save our country, we can sure as hell avenge it.
different-church-lady
@tobie:
NOMINATED!!!!
Baud
@different-church-lady:
The thing is, COVID was going to kill a lot of people anyway. Trump just made it worse. But it’s hard for ordinary people to calculate how much worse.
The destruction this time is much more direct and obvious.
Gretchen
@schrodingers_cat: Yes! Biden delivered on progressive wishes that others only dreamed of, and the leftists just saw an old white guy who didn’t do enough.
TONYG
@Baud: Well, actually, Reagan illegally sold advanced weapons to Iran, which was considered an adversary of the United States. So Reagan was a traitor too
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Yeah that would be great. Some bhakts were under the impression that the Orange One was a great friend of India. And then he deported Indians in shackles in military planes. So it is harder for them to keep the delusion going.
Baud
@TONYG:
Disagree. He did that for his own interests, not to appease Iran.
Awful, and criminal, but not treasonous.
different-church-lady
@Baud: That’s nonsense! COVID was a hoax! Nobody died, it was just a way of controlling us!
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Baud: Don’t forget about how he sabotaged the hostage talks so that the prisoners from the US Embassy in Teheran would remain in captivity until Carter lost the election and was thrown out of office. Given the state of affairs at the time, you could make a pretty good argument that constitutes treason.
YY_Sima Qian
Cancelling CHIPS Act subsidies, while touting TSMC’s planned US$ 100B investment, the cognitive dissonance.
Baud
@Bruce K in ATH-GR:
That’s closer.
TONYG
@Gretchen: An awful lot of “leftists” are just performing for their fellow “leftists”. They have little interest in making things better for ordinary people.
Gretchen
@Baud: That’s a problem with ordinary people’s risk calculation. They want the choice where nothing bad happens. A bad pandemic that kills a number of people, or one that kills millions…in either event, they just see that deaths weren’t prevented. It’s like with vaccines: they want 100% assurance of safety. So some vaccine injuries in their mind argues against getting vaccines, even if infection injuries and deaths are greater. Where’s my 100% safe choice?
schrodingers_cat
@Gretchen: Yes and the Progressive label has come to mean an adherent of the Vt Independent. Being a whiny purity pony and sneering at incremental approaches is the opposite of advocating for progress.
Also, the Gaza protesters are still protesting the Ds even though they are out of power in DC because they are either scared of Rs or because they are Republicans themselves.
Dougb
Harkening back to Ronald Reagan with fondness is some really stupid Democratic consultant class bullshit but I supposed that’s pretty much to be expected from the leadership clowns and consultants they have. The messaging would have been far more effective if they had simply followed the example of the only representative with a spine who was there and collectively walked out while calling out that Trump is a traitor and crook. And put someone like AOC who can actually put the message through clearly.
mali muso
@Betty Cracker: We enjoyed it. Definitely starts at a bit of a slow pace and takes some time to build, but we found watching one episode a night enjoyable. I’m not a purist of the original books or the Peter Jackson movies, although I’ve read and seen both, so as a casual observer, it “felt” like the universe of Middle Earth. It also feels darker and more grim. There are little moments of hope and kindness, but you get the sense that things are pretty bad and they won’t be quickly fixed or made better with one good rally, battle or single hero. I found it kind of cathartic.
More and more, I am resigning myself to a long, hard, DARK slog in which we may or may not live to see the dawn of the better age. I still think there is a possibility that we get there, but whatever “it” looks like, I think it’s going to have to be dramatically different from what the last 60-odd years have been.
Gretchen
@TONYG: Yes. But they convinced enough others that “Genocide Joe” was a bad choice that now those voters are shocked that Trump’s plan is to bulldoze Gaza and build condos.
oldgold
I will give Elissa Slotkin this, it was far superior to Katie Britt’s 2024 rebuttal. That expressed, it fell well short of the moment. The speech, the delivery and the setting were, in a word – meh. A word that pretty much sums up the Congressional Democrats entire response to this debacle to date.
The signs the Democrats waived were weak and worse. Embarrassing.
Of course, Trump’s speech was the beyond horrible on so many levels. But, it probably landed with the intended audience.
schrodingers_cat
@TONYG: Many of them are privileged trust fund kids with wealthy parents.
NotMax
@tobie
Wishing your mama a happy celebration.
TONYG
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: Yes, that was absolute treason. I was 25 years old and working in an office full of Reagan supporters when Reagan was inaugurated. I was shocked at the time at how blatant it was. The hostages were released just minutes after Reagan took the oath of office! I would have expected the release to be delayed for a week or so, so that it wouldn’t be so obvious. But, nope. The right-wing guys that I worked with loved it. That was the day that I realized just how stupid “the average American” can be.
TONYG
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, that’s my impression. A tiny but loud minority.
TONYG
@Gretchen: Yes. And Trump’s “plan” for Gaza is 100% predictable for anyone who’s been paying attention for the past 10 years.
Betty Cracker
@mali muso: Thanks — I will give that series a look.
Agree about the long, dark, HARD slog with an uncertain end. My Bill likes a saying Teddy Roosevelt was fond of at times like these: Do what you can, with what you’ve got, where you are.
zhena gogolia
I recently read my great-grandfather’s notes on his life, mostly rural Ohio in the second half of the 19th century. The family was always getting swindled by some entrepreneur, losing their savings, and having to give up their teaching jobs to go back to the sawmill. So I guess it’s appropriate that an emerald-mine swindler should take the money I’ve paid into Social Security since I was 16.
chemiclord
The big problem with Slotkin is going to be that she will throw anyone under the bus to advance or preserve her own career. I’ve been watching her do it for years. This country could collapse into a smoldering wreck around her, as long as her manor and grounds are intact and she can proudly call herself a duly elected leader… that’d be just fine with her.
Shakti
Bless y’all for watching that atrocity and follow up. But tbh, fuck Ronald Reagan and his HUAC loving, Medicare and Medicaid is communism, questionably senile, embezzling law breaking ass and fuck Reagan worship.
Yes I know, the “normies” like him.
And the last Republican Presidents to become president in their first terms by winning the popular vote are all dead. And Reagan is a patriot in comparison.
I wish that actually mattered.
I think will re-watch Jurassic Park later this week..I haven’t done so since the start of the pandemic. I will pretend that the old man who funded the park and violated labor laws gets eaten like he does in the book.
mali muso
@Betty Cracker: Your Bill sounds like a wise one. :) If we have to go through these dark times, the best we can do is to do it in community.
sixthdoctor
Roberts and Barrett vote with the liberals.
Melancholy Jaques
@Betty Cracker:
Reagan worship from Democrats is repulsive. The idea that referring to him with reverence helps Democrats communicate to Republicans is a fucking fantasy.
oldgold
@sixthdoctor: Damn, I guess that is good news, but that 4 “Justices” voted the other way on a slam dunk matter is worrisome going forward.
Betty Cracker
@Melancholy Jaques: I mostly agree — I despise Reagan to the depths of my soul and blame him for putting the country on a dark path for my entire adult life. But I do understand why a Dem like Slotkin in a swingy state would invoke the rotten old coot to underscore Trump’s radicalism, and I think it’s possible that point would resonate with independent voters who don’t pay close attention to politics.
Soprano2
At this point that’s just stupid. What do they think Democrats can do now?
sixthdoctor
@oldgold: You’re not kidding; if I were Roberts I’d avoid staircases and any open windows on high floors. I’m sure Trump would love to replace him with another even worse toady.
oldgold
Breaking: US “pauses” intelligence sharing with Ukraine.
LAC
@schrodingers_cat: Sadly, all you said is true. And I agree that it is too early about anyone in 2028.i I will add that I am not a fan of the Reagan fluffing, no matter which side it comes from.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@sixthdoctor: So that’s an “emergency” bid. What does that mean in the long run? Trump has to do it some other way if he can?
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: Being useful idiots for Putin.
The Audacity of Krope
We have two parties that agree that the wealthy should be able to soak up all the national wealth and wield it as power over other citizens. The only disagreement is over the pace.
schrodingers_cat
@LAC: Agreed about the Reagan fluffing. I haven’t seen Slotkin’s speech. Slotkin with her stick straight hair and chubby cheeks reminds me of my classmate who was my rival in grade school. We later became good friends but we battled it out for years for the first rank.
Full Disclosure: My rival scored first rank in the finals more often than I did. She was a miss Goody Goody teacher’s pet. I was more unruly and headstrong. Also she was better than me at arts and needlework. Something I didn’t have much patience for.
YY_Sima Qian
@Betty Cracker: Dems have been invoking the ghost of Reagan (occasionally even Nixon!) to contrast w/ the radicalism of modern Repubs since at least Obama. Doesn’t work.
TBone
Don’t know why this came to mind just now, but it always makes me feel better, so I’m sharing for moral support. It’s about a type, not merely an illness. 🎶 The Dirty Knobs
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-nG6Q7MqVCo
Yes, the band name may have something to do with why I thought of this today. Excellent performance art!
Belafon
From what I read, since I didn’t watch it, Trump at one point actually complained about Democrats not clapping. Had they not been there, it wouldn’t have happened. He wouldn’t have noticed nor cared that they weren’t there, but when he’s in front of an audience, he expects them all to be on his side.
Also, what would Republicans have done if no Democrats were in the room? Imagine having all the votes, and the bills the Project 2025 has written.
tam1MI
It does seem like the Dems are following in the footsteps of the Labour Party in Britain.
After we hit the FO phase of the Tonya Harding Caucus’s successfully pushing out Biden – i.e., election night 2024 – I predicted that the Dems would move sharply to the right and stay there for a good long time. Nothing I have seen from them so far has caused me to reassess that belief.
Betty Cracker
@YY_Sima Qian: Maybe you’re right. I’ve never seen data on how that specific thing resonates with loosely affiliated voters who don’t pay much attention to politics, and I can’t read their minds, so I don’t know for sure. Voters SAY they want “bipartisan solutions” when asked, and that’s mostly hooey when the rubber meets the road.
suzanne
@Baud:
We get defined by our unpopular people. Not just the electeds, either. “Your annoying niece with blue hair” alienates a lot of people.
The Audacity of Krope
The fucked up part is the main people who had Biden’s back were the Congressional Black Caucus and a loose array of the more left wing Congressfolk.
So Democrats’ natural response will be to elect a white male from it’s right flank in four years.
LAC
@schrodingers_cat: Lol! Now that is a heck of an association!
I was too mild – i loathe the Reagan fluffing and look at anyone engaging in it with a side eye. It will always be National Airport for me.
I did not watch any moment of it. Real housewives of Bev Hills was on, followed by some painting. I just cannot with this BS and keep my peace.
The Audacity of Krope
As do I. At least she isn’t encouraging stochastic terrorism against University students like Fetterman.
Josie
Some of you may have read that President Biden’s Fairness Act made it possible for me to finally receive my late husband social security benefits that President Reagan denied me about 15 years ago. Because I am not a forgiving person, I calculated the amount Reagan cost me over the years with that offset. It came out to about $400,000. Grrrr.
Almost Retired
I agree with Betty Cracker that the Slotkin response was a B+ on the late 20th century grading curve. But it’s a solid A in this era of egg and grade inflation.
The Reagan references could be interpreted as retroactive hagiography, but it was clearly intended as an attempt to draw a clear line for Republicans and Independents between the “classic conservatism” of the Reagan era and the radical nonsense of Trump.
For me that falls flat, but I’m not the intended audience. I am about to posit what is possibly the worst analogy in Balloon Juice history: I think of Reagan-the-precursor as John the Baptist to Trump’s Jesus. Only evil. Without Reagan (expectorate, hoick, gob), there would be no current-form Trump. Reagan normalized lies and cruelty.
Finally, the Canadian tariffs make especially little sense to me. There’s virtually no fentanyl crossing that border. Any why isn’t that the responsibility of the US border staff? What’s an acceptable rate of fentanyl importation? How is compliance possible? It’s like imposing tariffs until Bigfoot is caught.
I just don’t understand Trump’s Canadian obsession. All I can think of is that Trump is angry because Trudeau is better looking than him and his wife’s eyes light up when she greets him.
ewrunning
I thought her speech was good, though I understand those desiring something a bit harder hitting, maybe Trumanesque. How about going back further: “You shall not crucify (hu)mankind on a cross of crypto.”?
Soprano2
@TONYG: They all thought the hostage release happened because Iran was afraid of Reagan – they didn’t know there was a deal!
Sure Lurkalot
As we form our beliefs from our wedge of lived experiences, I believe that Reagan was the beginning of the end of America’s political experiment in democracy.
I also believe that ”Reagan” and “moral clarity” shouldn’t occupy space in the same sentence.
Belafon
Who was Slotkin’s speech for?
sab
@schrodingers_cat: A lot of them always were Republicans.
Barbara
Regarding Dems last night — my advice would have been to walk out one at a time, based on some kind of trigger word or issue. Which kind of seems like what they did.
This is an FYI that came across my desk via one of the Wonkette newsletters, about the impact of tariffs on farmers — but it’s a lot more in the weeds about the business of farming. Note how Trump announced the policy — telling farmers to “have fun” with tariffs. My husband’s family has the kind of farm that will be affected by tariffs — but the land is just rented out to the farmer, so the burden will fall on him not the family. He’s a right wing asshole who complains endlessley about the invasion from Latin America. We are, all of us, including my normally very conciliatory brother in law, beyond caring about his welfare. You reap what you sow, literally in this case.
Trump’s order to farmers: What does it mean?
lowtechcyclist
I got as far as this into the CNN transcript of Trump’s speech:
Yeah, that’s why Republicans are getting chased out of town halls with their constituents, and have given up entirely on doing them.
Hoodie
The Obama Bros were tossing around the Slotkin speech and other actions Dems might take. No great insights beyond one point. Harris had 100 days to mount a campaign. The next important election is almost two years away. It’s important to realize that you’re not going to defeat these guys with one speech. To analogize, it’s like you’re down 5 runs in the second inning. You’re not going to hit a 5 run homer. You need to string together some hits, but you have time. Here, we have to string together some smaller victories, which in this case probably entails getting people to finally get mad that he’s lying and/or demented on a few particular issues, eg., tariffs are going to lead to more inflation and unemployment and will not lead to a golden age. That’s how Bush was undone, he made moves on SS because he thought he had political capital and he ended up getting crucified for a bunch of his other fuck ups, including Iraq and his failure to regulate an out of control financial sector. Trump is doing something similar with this tariff nonsense, which will be a disaster and make some people finally realize he’s a dangerous loon. However, right now he’s got 40-50% approval and the ill effects of his lunatic policies are just starting.
The Audacity of Krope
The difference only being how much of a foothold the extremists have now, allowing them to push harder.
Reagan hagiography is beyond repulsive to me, it’s disqualifying.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
Reagan was yammering about “States Rights” at his campaign kickoff in Philadelphia MS, where three young men were murdered just 16 years before for having the temerity to register people of color to vote.
There were undoubtedly people standing in that crowd who’d been present at those murders.
That should have finished him off as a serious candidate immediately, but it didn’t.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@PJ:
A thousand times ^.
And this from Dougb at #42:
UncleEbeneezer
@Gretchen: I’m done paying any attention to the people who thought it was cute, smart or righteous to bash Biden and Kamala, push Biden out, scream “Genocide”, protest Kamala etc. I figured out the LoyalDemsBUT long ago and have never viewed them as committed members of our coalition. They just want attention and high-fives for being “brave” enough to always shit on Dems and sow division at the worst possible times. Last year only confirmed everything I already knew: no matter how big the stakes, they will always choose the feeding-frenzy on good Dems rather than supporting our party and spreading positivity for our side. Their biggest fear isn’t losing Democracy, WW3, Climate Catastrophe etc., it’s being viewed as a cheerleader for the Dem Party. Especially at times when what we most need are for all of us to be cheerleaders for the Dem Party. That’s when they simply must fold their arms, protest and throw their little tantrums. They will treat Slotkin no better than they treated Biden, Harris, Warren (snake emoji), Buttigieg (train derailments), Hillary, Obama, Gore, etc. Hell, they even bashed Bernie and AOC whenever they get a little too in line with Biden/the Dem Party. They don’t believe in lifting up Dems, only tearing them down. They are not on our side. I’m at the point where IDGAF what they think about our party, Slotkin or anything else. I’m done wasting my time reading their opinions and pretending like they are acting in good faith. In 2028, they will try to pull the same bullshit all over again. Just like 2024. Just like 2016. Just like 2012 (primary Obama!). Just like 2000. The pattern is clear and undeniable. Dems exist only to be their punching bags. Like a man who is always complaining that his girlfriend/wife isn’t good enough, at some point it becomes blindingly obvious: it’s not really about her, it’s about him.
suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope:
Co-signed.
I cannot shout loudly enough: fuck Ronald Reagan.
TBone
@lowtechcyclist: as seen at #69, fuck that guy.
sab
TBone
@suzanne: ditto (#92)
Jeffg166
Just like any other felon rally half the audience got up and left before he stopped shooting his piehole off.
Omnes Omnibus
I didn’t see either speech. Did Slotkin devote her whole speech to Reagan hagiography? If not, why are people harping on it? We should all remember that not all part of all speeches are aimed at this particular crowd.
I had said that I really didn’t know how Dems should respond to the SOTU, so I wouldn’t carp about the response. I am sticking to that. It sounds like the Dems did a little bit of everything. Let’s see if any particular thing resonates. And if it does, let’s encourage them to do more of it.
Fair Economist
@schrodingers_cat:
The shackles are so gratuitous. i remember in the Bush era they filmed captives being shackled to be moved around and the filming looked like bondage porn – lovingly lingering over closeups of locks being locked and things like that. I think there are some seriously sick conservatives in government that literally get off from people in shackles and do this for pornographic purposes.
JMG
@Betty Cracker: There’s stacks full of political science research showing that what voters mean by “bipartisan” is “I want both sides to agree with what I want.”
Barbara
@UncleEbeneezer: In the inimitable words of Eleanor Roosevelt, it is better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness.
I follow some people on BlueSky and saw a reposting of some guy whose original post said something like, “In a time of crisis all Dems can do is wave little paddle signs.”
I don’t respond — I know that people like this are goading others just to get the clicks for whatever twisted psychological need they have — but if I had responded it would be like, “in a moment of crisis all you can do is sit around pissing on your allies.”
UncleEbeneezer
@The Audacity of Krope: It’s not really fucked up though because the CBC people would be the first to admit that they don’t trust American voters to elect someone Black or a woman. Why would they, after what we just saw? Of course they will support (and prefer) Kamala or another Black candidate, but I don’t think they will be the ones who howl in protest if our voters pick Newsom, Slotkin, Buttigieg etc. There’s a reason they supported Biden in 2020. They know American voters better than most, and they know that white voters have a limit to how much diversity we will allow in our POTUS candidates so Biden had the best chance of squeezing out a win.
jowriter
@Belafon: Thanks. They had to be there. The GOP would have filled their seats with GOP guests clapping like seals at everything the orange one said. Until there’s a unified message from Democrats (can’t imagine when that might happen), it would be nice if people got off their butts spending time on Blue Sky and actually DID something other than complain about Democrats–it’s starting to sound a lot like X over there. I think I’ll restrict my daily half-hour tune-in to social media to this site, and feed the whiners here some pie. I make my calls, boycott the corporatists, and try to live my life as best I can.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: The only part of Slotkin’s speech I liked was the admonition for people to take action on their own for things they personally care about.
Especially important as Democrats are not our saviors and have no intention to be.
chemiclord
@schrodingers_cat: That has been and will continue to be a massive issue with the progressive/leftist segment of our society. To an extent, it’s true… nothing is ever good enough. Our leaders simply aren’t doing enough to create a progressive society. Biden didn’t… Obama didn’t… hell even a President Bernie Sanders wouldn’t be good enough.
But my God, do we have to get better at accepting a half loaf (or a quarter, or an eighth, etc., depending on how cynical of leftist we’re talking to) rather than flipping the table and walking away so that everyone gets nothing.
The world we want isn’t going to come from any “Glorious Revolution.” History has shown us that many, many times. It’s only going to come from hard work and taking what we can get at every turn, navigating society in our direction. But that’s going to take time and a lot of determination.
Hoodie
@suzanne: Agreed, but the main reason Reagan hagiography is stupid is that no one remembers Reagan. Republicans sure don’t. What people may understand is that all that stuff they used to be able to get cheap at Target and Walmart just got a lot more expensive (or even unavailable) and the prospect for the future if we continue on this vision quest of Trump’s is a future like fucking Russia, where Trump and his buddies swan around on yachts and private jets and you’re eating wonder bread and beans.
cain
@schrodingers_cat: Surprised that they haven’t started burning American flags. That will provoke some major shit here and will be used to distract people by the media and by the federal fiends.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: Reagan was a fucking evil monster, but so was the USSR. Just ask Jews, women, LGBTQ People, and everyone who lived under the oppression of former Soviet states. I have zero love for Reagan, but standing up to the Soviet Union was absolutely the better stance than not doing so. I don’t know how people here who claim to value NATO can’t understand what Slotkin is saying. Using Reagan as an example makes sense here, and like it or not, he’s still widely admired in the minds of voters (because of bullshit hagiography but still). This is politics and sometimes Dems have to do impure things to win. I want Dems to be smart enough to do that and to ignore the haters who will bash them for doing so.
frosty
@Almost Retired: “All I can think of is that Trump is angry because Trudeau is better looking than him and his wife’s eyes light up when she greets him.“
Nailed it!
emjayay
@PJ: “I will support the Democratic candidate who tells the truth about Reagan.”
Reagan was 35 years ago. All most people know about him is that he said “Mr Gorbachev, tear down that wall.” It was the right thing at the right time. Plus maybe some gauzy “Morning in America” (thanks a lot Hal Riney) memory.
And purity policing candidates for office when one is a Democrat and the other only real choice is one of today’s Republicans is how to get another fascist cultist in office.
Betty Cracker
@Almost Retired: I suspect the tariffs bullshit is highly lucrative fore people who know when they will go into effect and when they will be withdrawn.
Barbara
@Dougb: I don’t think it’s per se disqualifying to remind independents at least that things used to be different, but for any member of the consultant class who wants to hearken back to Reagan, I would remind them of this one bit of very obvious data: The age of even the youngest Reagan voters is now 63 — born in 1962 (four years younger if you count 1984). Nearly two generations of Americans have no living memory of Reagan at all. He is increasingly irrelevant and his memory doesn’t “hearken back” to anything for them, but using him as a symbol in a speech is an ongoing reminder that the people shaping messages for them are old.
catclub
Makes perfect sense. One was done by Joe Biden.
The Audacity of Krope
Or someone pro-labor or someone gay…
Maybe Democrats should spend less time concerning themselves with what they think voters will or won’t do and just focus on what needs to be done and who is best to do it. Job performance matters more than telegenicity. Decades of trying to meet voters where they are has rendered Democrats unable to lead.
I’m putting a mark down now. I will not vote for Newsom or Fetterman in 2028. Including the general. For each’s own unique reasons, both are pulling the party away from anything resembling something I can support. But they’ll be the favorites because….
frosty
@jowriter: “I think I’ll restrict my daily half-hour tune-in to social media to this site, …”
You can keep it to a half hour??? I’m impressed. Starting Hour 2 now, but that includes a few Substack emails.
I need to get a life.
Professor Bigfoot
@tam1MI: As long as that doesn’t entail throwing the rights of any of our constituent communities- or anyone else, for that matter— under the bus.
Where do “human rights” fall on this “left-right” spectrum?
suzanne
@TBone: A Xhitter thread I read this morning tells me, “The party needs people who combine the authenticity and passion of its progressive wing with the care towards the median American of its moderate wing.”
It causes me some distress to think that praising Ronald Reagan would be how showing “care towards the median American of its moderate wing” would manifest.
Nobody can even tell me what the “moderate wing” actually wants, other than ponies and sparkles.
Almost Retired
@Betty Cracker: that’s the best theory I’ve heard for making sense of the tariffs.
Professor Bigfoot
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Nope, that was the secret to his success.
From defanging the Black Panthers in California with the Mulford Act to launching his campaign— TWICE— in Philadelphia MS on a platform of “states rights”— Americans* LOVED him for this.
And still do.
Belafon
@Barbara: That’s the wrong age to look at. What you want is the age of the youngest person that “remembers” the Reagan years. You’re talking about people who would have been early teens somewhere late in his presidency, let’s say 13 in 1986, so 1973 births.
tam1MI
My cynical side says, “Sacrificed to the god of Kitchen Table Issues”. But maybe the Dems will surprise me.
Maybe.
Citizen Alan
@TONYG: i was born seven months into nixon’s first term. Every republican president of my life has been worse than the one before by an order of magnitude. If the nation survives trump, i think the next republican president to get elected will be a cannibal.
Belafon
@The Audacity of Krope:
Which is why we picked two of the most qualified women as nominees. Two women that spent a whole lot of time learning everything that would be needed to be leaders.
MinuteMan
@Dougb: Reagan was the start of the GQP stream of clown presidents so for a prominent Dem to extol him is abominable. Centrists aren’t the enemy but they’re fickle allies at best (see Garland, Merrick), maybe just a smidgen better than the never-trumpers. Make nice with them but keep them at arms length.
The Audacity of Krope
Starting from the left, it starts becoming acceptable to pick and choose groups to discriminate against at about 80 degrees left of center. Once you hit the center and start moving right, it includes everyone not conforming to your cultural preferences. 15 degrees right of there you expect to be celebrated for your hatreds. Beyond that it starts being more about skin color and birth condition than culture. Until finally the fully right-winger wants everyone but himself to die.
emjayay
@The Audacity of Krope: it’s = it is
Professor Bigfoot
@UncleEbeneezer: We just need one hard red line: we will not throw the rights or lives of ANYONE under the bus.
Anyone advocating abandonment of support of trans folk should be sent outside to find their own switch.
kissel
Really tired of the centrist drum beating. The biggest flaw Democrats have is being seen as wishy-washy, not actually having a real stance. Being a centrist is the same thing. I don’t believe that is what the American people are looking for in a candidate.
J. Arthur Crank
@TONYG:
Yes, and half of them are below that.
The Audacity of Krope
Actually we picked Joe Biden as our nominee over several highly qualified women, then chose him again over malcontents complaining about his age before denying the voters and the delegates nominated a highly qualified woman who wasn’t seeking it, leaving her on the back foot for a shortened campaign.
Belafon
@The Audacity of Krope: Wow, I’m further left than I thought, which is weird since I think that abandoning trans people is abandoning everyone and that highly regulated capitalism is the best economic model.
PJ
@schrodingers_cat:
And was slammed for it by the media and derided for it by the left and punished for it by billionaire donors. Don’t we all know it.
Omnes Omnibus
I see that, despite the fact that the Dems seems to all chose various methods of showing resistance, cynicism seems to be a common reaction here. Could I suggest that those with Dem Congresspeople call them today and encourage them to keep it up? Just a thought.
tam1MI
My guess is the group they will leave to twist in the wind is Muslims.
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: OH yeah, the past two days have created a lot of buying opportunities for smart people who can take advantage of them. ETA – I would bet my investment people are doing that.
Professor Bigfoot
@tam1MI: The thing is, we talk about the party “jerking to the right,” or “dragged to the left,” but we never really discuss WTF those words MEAN.
That’s why I ask where are human rights on the “left-right” spectrum, because IMHO the very language of “left and right” are inadequate to the task today.
My hard red line is the defense of the rights and lives of ALL of us, and outside of that, well hell, “we can disagree and still love each other.”
The Audacity of Krope
Tell my phone that. I won’t catch it and fix it every time my phone wrongly changes it .
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@tam1MI:
Yup. I read the House New Democrats caucus (Blue Dog v 2.0) put out a statement afterwards that said exactly that, claiming that the “successes” we had were all due to centrists pulling the party rightward (in so many words). No examination of why all those other people who voted for Biden stayed home this time around, ie., perhaps they didn’t like what they perceived the Dems were running on.
I repeat this quote because it will remain pertinent. Shawn Fein from the UAW:
kalakal
Something I find weird is how anyone can remember the Thatcher/Reagan years with affection for Thatcher/Reagan. I loathed the bastards then and still do
Belafon
@The Audacity of Krope: Harris was my first choice in 2020 so don’t tell me she didn’t want it. The other highly qualified woman was Hillary, which most of us thought was actually the most qualified candidate at the time.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Audacity of Krope: So, everyone from 180 degrees left to 80 degrees left are four-square solid in the defense of EVERYONE’S rights?
Professor Bigfoot
@kissel: The biggest problem the Dems have is that they are perceived as the party of Black people, the party of civil rights.
Everything else is secondary to this.
Omnes Omnibus
@kalakal: People ARE weird.
Belafon
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Pick one: Labor, blacks, LGBTQ+, labor, women, the poor, the sick, the elderly.
Out of all of those groups, there are two that are least likely to vote for Democrats: women and labor. And that’s because the majorities in both of those groups are straight whites. Labor got a huge voice at the DNC.
One of the Democrat’s problems is we don’t represent one group, we represent multiple, some of which don’t actually like each other.
There is no “pick one.”
Barbara
@Belafon: I am not going to argue — but even if you were born in 1975 and you remember the Reagan years, which ended in 1988, you are now 50 years old. I suppose we can argue about who remembers Reagan at all, or who remembers him fondly, but appealing to Reagan is a message that has limited resonance for an increasing number of voters, including Republican voters.
One of the things I do is compare country data, and here are some factoids about Russia — its GDP is approximately the same as Canada’s and Italy’s, and heavily dominated by petroleum production. There is, literally, nothing we lack if we fail to do business with Russia. If Russia didn’t have weapons it would have no more bearing on the world than Kazakhstan. Yes, I know, Trump and his minions love Russia because they like the way that Putin lords it over his opposition. But even Putin felt the need to make life economically more bearable for Russian people as the trade off for being president for life, although I assume that bargain has been tested more recently.
Trump is just unleashing chaos and its victims aren’t all going to be people who have always hated him. I am not looking for logic, I am just observing.
tam1MI
Based on my interactions with the left side of our party over the years, they are always happy to throw women’s rights under the bus.
Professor Bigfoot
@Belafon:
You and I are in COMPLETE accord, here. <applause emoji> <raised fist emoji>
”Ain’t nobody free ‘til everybody is free,” and capitalism is a brilliant machine for innovation and wealth creation, but like any machine that’s allowed to run “open loop” (that is, uncontrolled) it will ALWAYS eventually wreck itself.
Belafon
@Professor Bigfoot: And the party of trans people, and the party of loose women, and the party of lazy migrants coming to take your jobs, and women who think they’re better than men.
Professor Bigfoot
@tam1MI: Nor even them; despite what happened in Michigan.
WE believe we’re ALL American citizens.
It’s those motherfuckers who don’t.
Princess
My normie friends seem to have liked Slotkin’s speech. I’m talking about people who certainly didn’t vote for Reagan.
PJ
@UncleEbeneezer: But you don’t have to specifically reference Reagan, a terrible President whose bigotry and lack of compassion were a step down the road that led us here. You could just say, “From 1949 to the end of the Berlin Wall, all Americans, Democrats and Republicans, united with our allies in NATO to defend democracy and fight the tyranny of the Soviet Union, and now Trump wants to end democracy and succumb to rule of Moscow.” The continuing Reagan worship is just stupid.
Baud
@suzanne:
You didn’t have to make this about me.
Professor Bigfoot
@tam1MI: PRECISELY.
Which brings me back to my own belief that human rights are orthogonal to the political ‘left-right’ axis.
They exist in a plane that the traditional descriptions of “left and right” are simply inadequate to capture.
Professor Bigfoot
@Belafon: Indeed, but this shit started with the passage of CRA64 and VRA65.
The entire Reagan era was the white backlash against the advancement of Black people.
Since then others have been added to our coalition, but never mistake the utter hostility of the conservative movement for free Black people first.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: That’s bullshit. The New Democrat caucus is not Blue Dogs 2.0.
Ed. You are trying to
smeardiscredit half our our Representatives, and I have to ask: to what end?schrodingers_cat
@tam1MI: Also, immigrants. St. Bernard of Vt used to be a regular on Lou Dobbs. When he was a Congressman he used to vote against any measure that would make immigrants lives easier. He did it from the left, so gets a pass. He only moderated his stance somewhat when he was running for President.
The Audacity of Krope
If you only consider questions of civil rights as a single continuum and don’t look at the rest of anyone’s views. Someone could be socially to left and right wing economically. Or the reverse.
Maybe the simplistic left/right framing is, itself, unhelpful and mainly a tool to rule certain ideas out of bounds.
The Audacity of Krope
Seems like this should be a winning position. Maybe it’s our insistence on “consent” being a factor there. Such a repressive notion, consent…
dr. luba
@TONYG: Remember Trump’s plans for North Korean seaside resorts?
It’s his answer for everything.
TBone
@suzanne: 🎯 you have reminded me of what Peter O’Toole said he wanted on his tombstone. He got a jacket back from the dry cleaners with a note pinned in it.
Belafon
@Professor Bigfoot: Totally agree.
SW
Sadly I think the first female POTUS will be a Republican. Think Thatcher.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Geminid:
They more or less embody this:
https://www.cjr.org/covering_the_election/center-new-liberalism-cnl-jeremiah-johnson.php
I’ve linked to that article many, many times before.
To what end: I fully understand that people like me are the face of the party that lost…to this face of the party. I routinely push back along these lines because for far too long we’ve let this part of the party set policy and tell the rest of us to stfu because we’re fighting facism, you’re a purity pony etc., all designed to squash internal debate about policies that have meaningful impacts on the party that’s not part of the mostly white, elite establishment both with the Party and the areas they represent–years ago it was labeled “Dems have a gentrification problem” and we’ve seen that play out in spades this last election cycle. By pushing back, it’s a reminder that the progressive wing of the party is alive and kicking and will continue to advocate for a party direction we feel is more in line with broader Democratic values than simply the corporate, neoliberal, trickle-down agenda you see in this House caucus.
Yeah, it puts me well to the left of the “bullshit orthodoxy” that’s preached ad-nauseam at blogs like LGM, Atrios and unfortunately, in here. Make no mistake, I have a lifetime record of voting and supporting Dems, that’s not gonna change, but it also doesn’t mean we can’t stop pressing for “better” Dems as opposed to just settling for “more” (to harken back to the Aughts and how internal Dem politics were playing out–it’s deja vu all over again).
I know we are on opposite sides of this given your tracking of many of these caucus candidates in certain states and districts. Oh well.
Belafon
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I think we lost because too many people with my skin color would cut their own arm off as long as an “other” lost both arms, and that just the right amount of people fell for “Democrats care more about these other people than those you are advocating for.” We still live in a country where the first group has too much power and will not be swayed by pleas that they’re hurting themselves.
schrodingers_cat
@SW: Not with this Republican party. They would never nominate a woman.
Geminid
@The Audacity of Krope: A couple months ago, someone brought up the supposed left/right framing of the “dump Biden” Democrats, and linked to a Guardian summary of the 20 or so Democratic Representatives who had called for Biden to step aside.
When I looked them up individually, I found that there were more from the Progressive Caucus than from the New Democrat or Blue Dog caucuses, but not a lot more. This was not a left/right issue, no matter much people try to make it one.
And yes, House Black Caucus members were the most supportive of Biden. But if you broke that caucus down you’d find many including Emilia Sykes, Jahanna Hayes, Terry Sewell, Steve Horsford, Jennifer McClellan and Shomari Figures are in the New Democrat caucus. I would not surprised if half the Black Caucus are New Democrats. And then there are Black Caucus members like Joyce Beatty and Lauren Underwood who do not affiliate with any of the “ideological” caucuses.
And now I will make a generalization: my observation regarding Black Democrats, both voters and electeds, is that they are not more “Liberal” than the average White Democrat, and they are not more “Moderate” either. I think Black Democrats are more Pragmatic.
Eric
@Professor Bigfoot: I don’t agree with that at all. Not sure if you’re just trolling me.
Jacel
@Baud: No, we get largely defined by things Democrats have never said, but that RWNJs pull out of their asses over and over 24/7/52/4 (“Open borders!”). And mainly just a constant drone (independent of anything to do with policy) of what horrible, dismissible people Democrats are.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Geminid:
Heh heh, *that*, we agree on.
I wanna stress that my continued harping on House caucuses stems from policy, not how the Dump Biden campaign played out and who was in it because as you point out, that was spread out.
motoran
Yeah, that wholesale move toward the center really worked out well for Kamala Harris, didn’t it? Have you people not learned anything?
LAC
@Professor Bigfoot: and that is why, while not being a “hater” about Slotkin’s speech, I am not moved by the “broken clock” bullshit about Reagan. I am more focused on the domestic policy harm he did with a smile.
I don’t expect perfection, but I am tired of the normalizing of messaging that is only supposed to appeal to middle “diner” America.
kissel
@motoran: some people’s answer to a failed idea is just to ask for more of it, I suppose.
Emily B.
@Barbara: When canvassing for Harris in PA last fall, I was surprised to hear one 30-something express strong economic nostalgia, even envy, for the 1980s—when housing was cheap and jobs were plentiful (he believed). Those of us who lived through the 80s will remember multiple recessions, and in fact his attitude reminded me of GenX’s nostalgia for the 1950s.
Reagan may be a more potent symbol to those who DON’T remember him.
JaySinWA
@Emily B.: I bought my house in the 80’s. It wasn’t cheap and interest rates were at least 17%. Ignorance is blissful idiocy in this case.
The Audacity of Krope
According to conventional wisdom, politicians are only allowed to move right. Moving to the right, however extreme, is celebrated. Once you are deemed modicum left of center, you’re portrayed as extreme, however pragmatic you might actually be.
Geminid
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I don’t know why anyone would accept the framing of an op-ed piece analizing online discourse, when they can learn about the individual Representatives from these House caucuses and form their own opinions.
Look at your own state’s House delegation. Diane DeGette and Joe Neguse are in the Progressive Caucus, while Jason Crow and Brittany Pettersen are New Democrats. They’re not at war with each other though, because they have far, far more in common than they have differences.
I contend this alleged conflict between two wings of the Democratic Party is in large part an artifact created by pundits like Jeremiah Johnson and Matt Iglesias; so many men, mostly white, debating each other from their ivory towers.
And then there are the advocates promoting “Centrism” or “Progressivism” with their own axes to grind and fights to instigate. I used to care a lot about these fights, but I have come see them as less relevant because I believe most rank-and-file Democratic voters do not think in those terms.
I guess we’ll get to see if this is so next Spring and Summer, when there will likely be a number of primary challenges as well as contests for open seats.
But my views of Democratic party politics were formed by living in a state that went from red to purple to blue in this century. Virginia Democrats did not accomplish this through intra-party ideological fighting. We did it by pulling together one and all.
Captain C
@UncleEbeneezer:
LDB: “They have to
bend a kneecater to us! We’re the base!”Us: “So you’re a devoted Democratic Party volunteer?”
LDB: “No! I would never deign to help the Democrat Party!”
Us: “But you’ve at least contributed money regularly?”
LDB: “I would never give money to that corrupt bunch of corporate stooges!”
Us: “Well, you at least vote in every election, including primaries and off-year elections?”
LDB: “Of course not! I would never vote Democrat unless they did exactly what I wanted!”
Us: “So how, exactly are you the base when you never help out and seem to be fighting against Democrats much harder than against Republicans?”
LDB: “FUCKYOUFORQUESTIONINGMEYOU’REWORSETHANTRUMP!!!”
Barbara
@JaySinWA: I bought my house at the tail end of the 80s, and there had been a tremendous run up in the price of houses in major metropolitan years and my initial interest rate was just over 10%. Our sellers had owned the house for not quite three years and were selling at more than half again the price they had paid.
However, looking back, this rate of increase was subsequently dwarfed by the run up in the last decade or more, and the inflation seems to have spread beyond hyper growth areas like Northern Virginia. Relative to income levels, housing was cheaper in the 80s, even adjusted for the relatively higher interest rates.
LAC
Maybe this should have been a rebuttal:
https://www.threads.net/@lynaevanee/post/DG0wJmNR4rA?xmt=AQGzvDzlqfhlctP5b6xCirySe0mvI1A0grW9g-wnEVM7ZQ
🤣
The Audacity of Krope
@Captain C: I volunteer, donate, and have been voting a straight D ticket for every election since 2006 (the second election I could participate in).
The pervasive anti-left sentiment among the donor class and the most entitled D voters has brought my support nearly to the breaking point. And is the reason for what so many here disparagingly call “horseshoe leftists.”
No one is required to accept a compromise they seem unacceptable and Democrats aren’t entitled to any votes. Your attitude and those who share it are going to push me right away from this party.
Captain C
@The Audacity of Krope:
Then you’re not who my post was talking about.
Look what YOU made ME do!
Hit dogs holler.
The Audacity of Krope
@Captain C: I’m no longer tolerating the kinder, gentler anti-immigrant rhetoric from Democrats or funding genocidal colonial projects abroad or any hint of dropping support for trans people or labor priorities.
We’ll see how it all bears out with elections and candidates, but my days of voting for Democrats simply as better than a Republican, a low bar if I ever heard one, are over.
Big Fly
@tobie:
SECOND!
Happy Birthday, @tobie’s mom.
zhena gogolia
@sixthdoctor: Good.
RevRick
@PJ: It’s a strategy to pit a revered Republican President (by many) against the current garbage administration. Make Republican voters stew in the cognitive dissonance.
gvg
@UncleEbeneezer: The black friends I have don’t seem to really be Kamala supporters. They still are upset that Biden was pushed out. He was their champion. I guess he supported them a lot longer and nationally for more time than she had to prove herself. They were not automatically happy to support her. Not unhappy, just not really focussed on her. I think that black turnout might have been a little less because of it. Most of them did not hear the various rumors we did about who did it and why nor the silly ideas for a quick primary. They just knew Biden lost support. They also did not hear much about Kamala’s ideas and plans. The mainsteam media non coverage did hurt her and social media did not make up for it based just on my middle aged normie black friends and coworker. Pretty much the white ones too. Also even ones I think used to lean republican but kept quiet at work (as you should) are pretty clearly anti Trump policy right now because it’s causing direct problems for our whole industry. I work for a big University in a college town. There are also several large hospitals, and that’s about it.
Darkrose
I am a simmering font of rage this morning, both at Trump and the GOP and at my party–the one I’ve voted for in every election since 1988.
I am an ’80’s kid. I remember Reagan opening his campaign in Philadelphia, MS talking about states’ rights. I remember the War on Drugs, and the subsequent expansion of the carceral state that destroyed generations of black and brown families. I very much remember Reagan’s inaction on the AIDS crisis, and his press secretary laughing about “the gay plague”. I remember Iran-Contra, and the School of the Americas, and how much worse Reagan and his puppeteers made this country and the world.
I do not, under any circumstances, got to hand it to him. And I frankly don’t like that the one Senate Democrat who abstained rather than vote against the bullshit trans sports ban, is now invoking the memory of that smirking ghoul who despised me and people like me in an attempt to tack to the center-right.
chrome agnomen
@Baud: he most certainly was a traitor. Iran hostage deal?
there has not been a president since Eisenhower who should not have been shot for his actions as president, except perhaps Ford.
chemiclord
@The Audacity of Krope: History STRONGLY disagrees with your assertions. Hell, RECENT history disagrees with your assertions.
The Audacity of Krope
@chemiclord: Sorry, which part.of my assertions? The part where voters will vote on job performance over telegenicity? Because Biden resoundingly won his primary before he was run out of the election on a rail.
The part where fearful primary voters are going to rally to a white man? Look at 2020. Look at conversations here. It’s going to happen, especially with the media putting its thumb on the scale.
Or the part where Democrats won’t lead on an issue without a poll showing strong support at least among their own existing voters? That should be obvious. Obvious moral cowardice.
The simple fact is my assertions are informed by history, especially recent history.
chemiclord
@The Audacity of Krope:
That voters choose based on performance. That is objectively NOT true. If it was, we’d have never seen Two Bushes as President, two terms of Reagan, and two terms of Trump.
The Audacity of Krope
@chemiclord: Well, we’re seemingly unwilling to make performance based arguments to the general electorate. The election wasn’t run on “we did all these great things,” it was run on “Trump is scary.”
The only voters given an opportunity to judge Biden on the job he was doing, D primary voters, voted to renominate him with over 90 percent of the vote. Then the donors spoke.
If you ever needed a clearer demonstration of whether Democrats prioritize voters or donors, and whether they prioritize right/wrong or poll-based risk assessment…
Captain C
@The Audacity of Krope:
So the current state of affairs, run by an illegal TCFG 3rd term or whatever scumbag the Republicans hork up, is an acceptable alternative to a notional President Newsom or President/Senator Fetterman, then? The most important thing to do in every election, no matter what the alternative, is to Teach Democrats A Lesson?
Or are you just hoping other people save your ass so you can continute to play purity pony?
The Audacity of Krope
@Captain C: Fetterman is actively endangering University students while pushing a line of discrimination against a Muslim-coded population.
Newsom never misses an opportunity to fuck over working people.
Any of these things are deal breakers.
Captain C
@Captain C:
@The Audacity of Krope:
So a ‘yes’ to all these questions, then.
The Audacity of Krope
By the way. This is easily inverted. You’re the purity pony, demanding purity from voters you refuse to demand from elected officials. Your back-asswards.
I’m under no obligation to support a candidate pushing for bigotry and ignorance like Fetterman or pushing uncontrolled wealth accrual at the expense of workers like Newsom. Those are core values and after July, Democrats get no latitude on them for Republicans being worse.
Purity pony arguments always grated on me through all the years of voting straight D. It’s entitlement, pure and simple.
Captain C
@The Audacity of Krope:
I’M NO PUPPET! YOU’RE THE PUPPET!
But I am confused by the fact that you’re too pure to support imperfect Dems, but you’re fine with making it easier for Republicans to take office and wreck the world by not voting and trashing Democrats every chance you get. I’m sure you’ve thought this through, though. After all, in the end, it’s all about you.
The Audacity of Krope
Poor reading comprehension? I have voted for Democrats every opportunity provided for me in my adult life, except for one office in 2004.
The issue comes when Democrats present a nominee I view also wrecking the world. I’ll vote for a non-world-wrecking candidate from any party and will not vote for a world-wrecking candidate for any party.
Fetterman and Newsom are world wreckers.
Gloria DryGarden
@Baud: I’ll cheer for that!
I wonder if there’s a good emoji for it..
Kayla Rudbek
@Barbara: I remember Reagan and I am a GenXer so I was too young to vote in those elections. The Reagan tongue-bathing is for the GenXers who thought that Alex Keaton and Gordon Gekko were just great. My first real political memory was the mock election we did in grade school. I was the only Anderson supporter, most of my classmates voted Reagan, I think very few voted for Carter. I think this had to have been the exurban Maryland school district as my family moved to Minneapolis before Reagan’s inauguration. I don’t remember my Catholic grade school or high school doing mock elections; they just told us to vote Republican.