Via Axios:
House Democratic leadership is privately confronting members who disrupted President Trump’s speech to Congress, Axios has learned.
Why it matters: Many progressives defied House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries’ (D-N.Y.) request to avoid making themselves the story.
Jeffries, in a dear colleague letter ahead of the speech, urged a “strong, determined and dignified Democratic presence in the chamber.”
Trump’s speech was instead rocked by constant heckling. Democrats held up signs and other props, and Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) was ejected.
In meetings and discussions with leadership this week, Democrats who heckled, walked out in protest or were otherwise disruptive were given a talking to about their tactics, sources said.
What we’re hearing: Leadership is “very unhappy” with those who went beyond traditional protest tactics like outfit coordination and refusal to clap, a senior House Democrat told Axios.
Roughly a dozen Democratic disruptors — including Reps. Melanie Stansbury (D-N.M.), Jasmine Crockett (D-Texas), Maxwell Frost (D-Fla.) and Maxine Dexter (D-Ore.) — were called into a “come to Jesus meeting” on Thursday morning, the senior Dem told Axios.
The top three House Democratic leaders were present: Jeffries, Minority Whip Katherine Clark (D-Mass.) and Caucus Chair Pete Aguilar (D-Calif.).
Yes, but: A source familiar with the matter stressed that these lawmakers are “not getting yelled at.”
“It’s a consultative process. We understand the pressure they are under.”
“They are not being talked to like they are children. We are helping them understand why their strategy is a bad idea,” the source said.
A spokesperson for Jeffries declined to address the private meeting. Spokespeople for Clark and Aguilar did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
And don’t tell me it’s Axios and all made up. If it was not true, there would be pushback.
At some point, Democrats need to learn that the reason so many people don’t rally to them is because they just look and act like weak twats. And that’s not even going into the ten motherfuckers in the Democratic caucus who voted to censure Al Green.
I am so over these spineless cowards. They’re going to be grumbling about decorum as they get frogmarched to the firing line. Leadership might allow them to coordinate lapel pins for their execution, so that will show the Republicans.
Baud
You can do whatever you want.
John Cole
@Baud: thanks babe
Feckless
Fuck that traitor Jeffries. Fucking Hakeem Neville fucking Chamberlain Jeffries.
If you see Hakeem on the street throw dog shit at him.
Professor Bigfoot
@Feckless: You first.
Let us know how that goes.
Trollhattan
I remember Marge Green and Boebert being thrown right out of the House for their tree-monkey antics at Biden’s SOTU so this only seems fair.
…Wait, I’m being told that might not have happened.
SuzieC
I am so furious about Marcy Kaptur. I donated to her. I’m calling her office tomorrow to let loose.
hrprogressive
It’s a Big Club, and We Ain’t In It.
Jeffries, et. al., have no desire to upset the apple cart.
They want bipartisan kumbaya with Fascists because they believe it will preserve their wealth and power, what little of it they are allowed to hold onto under the Musk Trump Reich.
Not sure why people continue to cling to the idea that the Democratic Party writ large gives a shit about them. They don’t.
Frost, AOC, and the few that do are busy being told to sit down and shut up.
Controlled Opposition.
Would they be doing anything differently?
Dragon64
I’m not mad that they had a plan and wanted other people to follow. I’m pissed that my Representative, Bera, voted for censure. I’m pissed about that. I have no problem with the leadership talking to these reps.
Traveller
Yes! (nuf said) Glad to see someone say this.
John Cole
@Feckless: Stop it. he’s not a traitor.
Ceci7
Guess I’ll be calling my rep (Clark) tomorrow to explain why Reps Green, Crockett et al are doing a better job of representing us.
B1naryS3rf
Co sign on all that. I’m sick and tired of Jeffries and every other Democrat who listens to the consultant class at this point. They are the dumbest smart people I know of. They know good and goddamn well that 47 is a fustercluck and their failure to capitalize on that with early shows of boldness will win them nothing. The 10 Dems who voted to censure today also need to worry about their jobs now. The base is in absolutely no mood for fuckshit “decorum.”
Dan B
I’m furious with the House leaders. There are many Democrats who are afraid of losing their jobs and essential benefits, and of losing their rights. These leaders want to maintain their manners when many of us are under seige. My marketing / branding said that Democrats are wimps. True today. So true.
matt
My sense is Jeffries is doing this because it’s literally the only thing he has any power over.
LeftCoastYankee
It’s a bit like that Python skit of the race for people with no sense of direction.
SW
My response to dem fundraising e-mails for now. I am an Al Green democrat. Go fuck yourself.
mapaghimagsik
I thanked my rep for voting Nay. Is there anyway that Jeffries constituents could put pressure on him?
Jackie
America’s allies – soon to be former – are openly discussing not sharing intelligence with FFOTUS.
I’d like them to go a step further, and share deliberate misinformation with FFOTUS and see if it ends up in Putin’s hands. What better way to prove FFOTUS is a traitor to us AND allies. It’s where we’re at, unfortunately.
Jackie
@Dragon64: I read 10 Democratic House members voted to censor Green. TEN.
BellyCat
Elevating responsibility above power = powerless irresponsibility.
Proud of the hecklers!!!
Trollhattan
Free advice to airlines and especially budget airlines: they’re called jetways, USE THEM.
You’re welcome.
Chetan Murthy
You just know they will. I mean, it would be malpractice -not- to do so. And we’d both applaud when they did it, too. But we’ll never know, b/c that is the sort of stuff that is closely-held. That is to say, “not shared with those goddamn Americans.”
schrodingers_cat
From the last thread:
Ds have been dealt a weak hand by the voters, that’s the truth. I am not going to be mad at them when Rs are creating an atmosphere which is openly hostile to someone like me
My rep. McGovern has been pitch perfect.
Van Buren
@SW: this comment needs a like button
Jay
@Jackie:
Those reps are:
Ami Bera of California
Ed Case of Hawai’i
Jim Costa of California
Laura Gillen of New York
Jim Himes of Connecticut (Et tu, Jim? This is fucking appalling.)
Chrissy Houlahan of Pennsylvania
Marcy Kaptur of Ohio
Jared Moskowitz of Florida (Sorry dude, we know you like to perform for the TV, but we guess when push comes to shove, you’re not on the level.)
Marie Gluesenkamp Perez of Washington (fuckin’ shocker there)
Tom Suozzi of New York
https://www.wonkette.com/p/which-of-these-10-house-democrats
Glory b
Jeffries is the most popular Congressional Democrat. He is very popular with black voters.
I don’t remember the source at the moment, but, while none predominates, he was #1 at (as I recall) 18%, Harris was second at 16%.
To contrast, Buttigieg and AOC were tied at 2% each.
Censure votes are performative, you guys will have no ire left for Republicans at this rate.
Many Black folks on social media also believe that leftie/DSA types have the black party leadership in their gunsites, and have had it in for Jeffries for some time.
It was the cause of a dust up in the Alabama Democratic party, with the black leadership accusing the lefties of undermining their leadership.
Of course, a battle like this will be GREAT for the party, I’m sure.
And, as I’ve said before, the party leadership can’t ignore the members in swing districts, they have to protect all of them. This means not jumping on one side & leaving the others high and dry.
Crockett, Frost, AOC, etc are in bulletproof safe seats, they can let their bad cop falls fly.
The others? Not so much.
Glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Yeah, this too.
SpaceUnit
They should have pelted the fucker with rotten tomatoes.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jackie: that is so weird! And deeply annoying.
comparing to mtg and boebert heckling Biden, and nothing happened to them.
I’m unhappy that congress took time to vote to censuré Rep Al Greene. Wasting our time. To say nothing of the 10 dems voting w republicans. I really don’t understand their strategy. Are they obeying in advance? What on earth?
Rusty
@Glory b: Thanks for the reality check. Let’s get back to fighting the Republicans.
Jackie
Rutrow…
Another Strong. Black. Woman.
The self anointed king will demand this judge be removed…
B1naryS3rf
@Glory b: no. Just no.
The vast majority of those railing against Jeffries are the same people who adore Jasmine Crockett (a woman of color) and who also want Schumer and Durbin and their ilk gone. And those folks are decidedly melanin deficient.
frog
@Trollhattan: Some airports do not have jetways.
Chetan Murthy
@Gloria DryGarden: There’s a thesis (in my mind, greatly popularized by Paul Campos of LG&M) that most voters know as much about the issues, as much about the leading candidates for President, as I know about Ariana Grande. That is to say, nearly nothing. Nearly nothing. The thesis goes that, when combined with mainstream media bias (wherein (e.g.) Marge Three Toes and Rep. Handjob in Public completely in-bounds, but Rep. Greene is definitely not), any sign of the Dems acting out at all, will be seen as proof positive that the Dems are crazy, or traitors, or something-or-other. Unfit, in any case.
That’s the thesis. I’m (like most people here) part of The Dem Base. I -want- the Dems to go in-the-face of these Fascists. But I’m not who Jeffries is talking to, nor are we here on this blog. Now, the question is, is that thesis correct? I don’t know. But over the past few years, Campos has amassed what one might call credible evidence. I haven’t got the various posts at my fingertips, but perhaps this post (from 2024 — but he coined the theory back in 2020) might help: https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/01/a-grand-theory-tailored-to-the-moment
Again, I’m not defending Jeffries: just trying to explain him. But I will add one thing: we read about a lot of GrOPers who’re complying with Fascism b/c they’re afraid for their safety, for their families’ safety. Those people are cowards and unfit. Well, if any Dems are doing that, they’re -also- cowards and unfit. But I don’t know that that’s why those Dems voted to censure Greene.
ETA: I would also note that the efficacy of The Big Lie (as we just experienced it during this past election) should give us some reason to think that this Ariana Grande theory might be correct. Only truly uninformed voters could be swayed by such lies.
Cathie from Canada
I’m starting to wonder whether the FBI has files on all these people, like Hoover did.
Maybe they’re just afraid of being arrested and having to spend hundreds of thousands and two years of their lives in courtrooms defending themselves.
Chetan Murthy
@Cathie from Canada: As I said just above, a Dem who is complying because of such fears, is a Dem who needed to resign. Maybe for reasons of vote-counting, they can’t do it -just- yet. But soon, they need to step back and let somebody else do the job , who -can- do the job.
RaflW
To be clear, I have not changed my stance from the earlier thread that the 10 Dems who voted to censure Rep. Greene suck rotten eggs.
But this Axios piece is blind-sourced shit-stirring. It isn’t worth a damn. Axios is batting for only one team, and it ain’t and never has been Democrats.
On a day we should be nailing Trump for his economic malaise and his backing down on tariffs despite Mexico doing exactly nothing different today than yesterday, I smell a very stinky rat or three feeding cheese to VandeHei and Allen.
gratuitous
I just want the deeds to match the words. If Democrats truly think that the current administration is an existential threat to the United States, then . . . ACT . . . LIKE . . . IT.
Playing nice isn’t a very good tactic, but I realize that some members might not have a choice. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, mentioned above as one of Democrats to vote to censure Rep. Al Green, is in a weird district. She beat that meathead Joe Kent last year using a campaign strategy that I didn’t agree with. But she won. That earns her a certain backward credibility in a very swingy district.
So she gets a pass from me, because she apparently knows her district better than I do from across the Columbia River, and I will assume voted accordingly. I wish it wasn’t so, but better to have an occasionally disappointing Democrat in that seat than a stone-age nazi.
MNDoug
So when do we see the Axios article about the 10 D who voted for censure having a meeting with leadership?
NeutronFlux
@hrprogressive: Excellent
hrprogressive
@B1naryS3rf:
I am a boring white guy and if they handed Jasmine Crockett, AOC, and Maxwell Frost leadership positions tomorrow, I’d celebrate profusely.
Jeffries just isn’t made for this moment. Neither are Durbin or Schumer.
Skin color is irrelevant. Leadership transcends, and there are plenty of Congresspersons of Color who Get It, and then there are a few, like Jeffries, who don’t.
This isn’t about race it’s about not clinging to antiquated “norms” that the Fascist GOP stopped following a generation ago.
Dan B
@gratuitous: Are you implying that handsome Joe Kent is a Stone Age Nazi? Ruggedly Square Jawed Meathead?
Nukular Biskits
Good evenin’, y’all.
What Cole said. I want Democrats who fight, not politicians who roll over and show their belly.
hrprogressive
@gratuitous:
The brutal truth is most of them only said all that to try and win the election.
As soon as they lost, Jeffries was one of the first talking about “working with them”.
AOC has never said that that I can think of.
The modern Democratic Party is comfortable in their wealth and position of diminished power. It’s more than You or I have.
They answer to Shareholders. Not Citizens.
We don’t matter to them.
Glory b
@B1naryS3rf: I didn’t mention Schumer or Durbin.
I know that lots of black folks have given the leftie/DSA folks LOTS of side eye for targeting Jeffries.
He was the first one AOC tried to get primaried, right after she won, years ago.
To paraphrase Warren when someone in the media tried to get her to trash another Dem, save all the rocks in your pockets for Republicans.
Martin
I mean, I’m with you, but I don’t think yelling during the SOTU is effective any longer. I think the strategy of not showing up and instead countermessaging is more useful, particularly if Dems are going where voters are – because nobody under 50 is watching the fucking SOTU.
RaflW
@Trollhattan: & @frog: And in Denver, Frontier decided to stop using jetways! Saves them money, I believe.
I will say that I really like how some European airports handle this: A jetway up front, and air stairs in the back. You do not have to use the rear stairs if you don’t want to (like, limited mobility* or a gold brick in your roll-aboard), but the plane fills and empties twice as fast!
That perimeter breach is a rare fluke.
*OTOH, it is a PITA if one is in a wheelchair and needs to board a plane at AMS’s ‘remote gates’ that are air stairs only. They have to put the person on a lift platform and wheel them in thru the rear galley.
sentient ai from the future
@RaflW: agreed. We should all be a lot more circumspect about axios and politico and their putative insight into internal party politics. It’s all pretty non-falsifible for us outsiders and it’s overall effect is to increase internal pressures and keep us fragmented and in circular firing squad mode
NeutronFlux
@John Cole: Like
schrodingers_cat
I am holding my tongue against any elected Democrat because yelling at Ds because they are not doing exactly what I want when Rs are ripping everything to shreds and want to kill me, is stupid. Just like pushing Biden out with a little over 3 months left in the campaign season was stupid.
Jay
It doesn’t take a lot of spine to vote “present”.
Voting for Censure sends a message, and it is not the message that is needed for this time.
Betty Cracker
Between this and Gavin Newsom throwing trans people under the bus in a podcast with Charlie Fucking Kirk, I’m seriously concerned Dems are moving rightward as a completely misguided interpretation of recent events. Fuck.
ETA: If you oppose this tack and have a Dem rep, let them know. I’m just yelling at Repubs these days because those are my reps.
Professor Bigfoot
@Glory b: History doesn’t matter.
They’ll certainly never listen to Black people, even when we’re the most reliable voting bloc for the Democratic Party.
But, as they’ll tell you in a moment, “skin color has nothing to do with it.” <eyeroll emoji>
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: Yep I didn’t like Slotkin’s hagiography of Reagan or her dissing KH but Slotkin on her worst day is better than say Murkowski on her best.
jackmac
I think a half-dozen Dems should have joined Rep. Al Green (D-Texas) by shouting the truth at Trump and being tossed out. Maybe a dozen, maybe 40 or maybe the entire fucking Dem side. And then tell the milquetoast media WHY.
If wouldn’t ever happen of course. It’s too rude. Can’t have that. Have to preserve decorum and collegiality you know.
B1naryS3rf
@Glory b: my point is the disdain transcends color, and whatever DSA history is I’m indifferent to. Jeffries is not the leader for this perilous historical time. His emphasis on “norms” and his failure to heed his members in touch with their constitutencies won’t do at all.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: If its any consolation, they don’t listen to me either. We are nonentities, just there for the headcount and then we should just STFU. Otherwise its characterized as sniping or worse.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I wouldn’t be surprised. We had been moving leftward for 20 years without seeing an electoral benefit. That situation wasn’t going to hold forever.
Jay
@schrodingers_cat:
and when they are voting in favour of Rs ripping everything to shreds and legislating ways to kill you, like they have?
The time to be nice and civil passed a long time ago.
Old School
“Democrats are weak twats and spineless cowards” doesn’t seem like a winning message to me, but what do I know?
Glory b
@hrprogressive: Do you know what the job entails?
Do you think his fellow Congressional Black Caucus members would turn on him?
Most black folks have had part 2 of “the talk” from their parents, the title?
“You Can’t Do The Same Things Your Little White Friends Do.”
Professor Bigfoot
Well of course you are. You’re a white man, after all.
sentient ai from the future
I called my rep earlier today and thanked them for voting against green’s censure.
Now as an open thread, I offer the following
tired: unobtanium
wired: unmaintanium
B1naryS3rf
@Martin: this event went viral far beyond the Congressional session. That’s the point. That’s what Al Green was wisely counting on and why he’s gaining where the bullshit clueless SCLMSM treats him like an oddball freak. And now that potential young voters are learning the Dems are joining in the censuring of him it’s a bunch of serious unforced errors.
Professor Bigfoot
@Jay: tell you what— how about we burn that bridge when we get to it, and burn the specific Dem who’s ready to sell other’s rights down the river.
Until then…
Glory b
@Jay: When did they do that?
“A Black person, just not THAT black person.”
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: Everyone is an expert on US politics, except non-white people who are US citizens.
Professor Bigfoot
@schrodingers_cat: Sure seems that way sometimes.
MANY folks here are simply unaware of whiteness, and it’s effect on their own outlooks.
Oh, well.
Nukular Biskits
At least some of you have Democratic lawmakers to be mad at. I can’t get my MAGA idiot rep to acknowledge anyone like me even exists here in BFE, MS.
Maybe it’s the redneck in me, but, quite frankly, fuck civility, decorum and tradition. That’s gonna get us nowhere when the other side has absolutely no interest in returning in kind.
I’m no starry-eyed liberal who doesn’t understand a vast swath of the American public is disgusted with politics but, quite frankly, I don’t have much patience for “normie moderate/swing voters who can’t be bothered to understand what’s at stake here.
Professor Bigfoot
@Glory b: I’m just waiting for that to happen to Jasmine Crockett.
INEVITABLY it comes down to “…of course I’d vote for a Black woman. Just not THAT Black woman.”
feebog
I’m guessing the meeting with Jasmine Crockett did not go as leadership planned. What should of happened is the entire Democratic delegation walking out enmasse. Just a big FU to Trump and his sycophants.
MobiusKlein
@RaflW:
QFT
Serious “Let’s you and him fight” energy from that rag.
Jackie
@Jackie: I thought this news would garner more attention… I guess not.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
One of the Dems who voted to censure, Tom Suozzi, took to Twitter to utter absolute nonsense:
Uh, yeah, that totally explains your vote.
Of course he has to yammer about bipartisanship given he’s a co-chair of the “Problem Solvers Caucus” which means he does feel he can find bipartisanship with the date that wants tire rims and anthrax.
He’s in Santos’s old district which might explain this crap but it’s still no excuse. Hell, he won his district by a greater margin than Kaptur won hers.
Now waiting for the usual “Save your ire for the GOP” comments in 3…2…1…
schrodingers_cat
@Jay: Anything the Ds do right now is symbolic. Rs have the majorities in both the House and the Senate.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Trollhattan: It didn’t happen because President Biden handled their heckling expertly.
just remembering
President Biden handled their heckling with a smile.
Martin
@B1naryS3rf: The problem here is that Dems aren’t on the same page on this stuff. If they want to shut down the SOTU as a party enterprise, then great, I’m there for it, but this clearly wasn’t that as witnessed by the crossover censure votes.
am
Lurker who has been perking up after a long time.
@John Cole I respectfully would disagree.
How do you control people? You keep them angry and afraid. https://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/Propaganda/goebbels.html is instructive and anyone in the US who is paying attention immediately recognizes the tactics.
The easy way to create the grounds to control people is via conflict, to lower their critical thinking levels. The President is the archetype of a con man or sales person. He is quite instinctively skilled in manipulating people and uses it to distract from his many flaws.
This administration is shitting the bed on every front and is actually on defense on the emerging negative polls and under pressure from their own party. They will obviously manufacture a villain on whom they will try to redirect anger in their own base, but creating conflict makes this easy. It is throwing them a lifejacket.
Let them twist in the wind. The censure motion was a sure thing given the partisan advantage, so who cares if it helps save vulnerable seats.
There is no way out of this without a coalition with some Republicans, and there is no way out of this long term by fighting with the screaming white hot ball of rage. Conflict sustains it, it must turn on itself.
Glory b
@B1naryS3rf: Do you honestly think that young voters cared about this?
Ilhan Omar got censored, every Democrat voted against it.
Does anyone even remember?
Professor Bigfoot
@Jackie: Today’s subject is Dem fecklessness, so…
But that ruling is good news for the Constitution.
Nukular Biskits
@am:
By that logic, the best thing Democrats should have done (something I supported) is boycotting the address entirely.
ETA: Corrected typo.
B1naryS3rf
@Martin: this doesn’t hold a trickle, let alone water.
Did all the GQP participate in Bobo and Empty Gee’s bullshit at Biden’s last SOTU?
Did you then see a censure vote? And if you had maybe if Ds had been in the majority, do you think 10 of them, or any of them would’ve voted Yes?
Decorum is GONE. We’re not playing ball on a green field. We’re playing Tron style jai-alai on lava. No one is going to write that Dems proudly behaved themselves as the Weimar Republic II collapsed.
Jeffro
Agree 110%
I was too busy calling my psycho MAGA rep’s office today to worry about Dems’ varied messaging in the face of this onslaught.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Nukular Biskits:
I quote the late, great Steve Gilliard a lot. What Cole is saying is basically what Steve was saying back in 2003:
You can still read the entire piece at the Internet Archive and I hope people do:
https://web.archive.org/web/20050910004807/http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2003/12/im-fighting-liberal-you-know-ive.html
I miss Steve all these years later. It’s nice to see Cole revive a little bit of that as it’s been missing in here for a looooong time.
B1naryS3rf
@Glory b: the fact that you honestly don’t tells me your sources of information are incomplete, to put it kindly. Stick to blogs if that makes you feel better.
Nukular Biskits
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I would be a fool to disagree with someone who has “rage” as part of their nym. ;>)
ETA: I do remember Steve … that’s back in what I’d consider the golden age of blogging.
The Thin Black Duke
@schrodingers_cat: This is the reality. We are at a familiar chapter in White America’s history where what’s going to get white people to listen is when the other members of their tribe feel the pain.
Glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Yeah, how many times did I hear, “Vote like black women!” “Follow the lead of black people!”
I’m starting to think that they really didn’t mean it…
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@schrodingers_cat:
When I was back in Central Misery, I’d say that every time but replace Slotkin with McCaskill. We vote for such people but it doesn’t mean a) we’re overjoyed doing it, and b) can’t criticize them for their actions or policy directions.
Glory b
@B1naryS3rf: I honestly don’t what?
Professor Bigfoot
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I miss him too; I came here as a refugee from The News Blog back then.
But there’s also “never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake.”
Every shitty thing Trump and Musk do is unpopular and increases their negatives; meanwhile the courts continue to rule against the bastards.
Holding back and letting the sonsabitches tie their own rope around their own necks isn’t not being a “fighting liberal.”
am
@Nukular Biskits: The greatest flaw I see in our times is an unwillingness to say “I don’t know”.
I don’t know what the best SOTU plan was, but this didn’t seem terrible. The president sounds like a raving nut, let him be the focus. The more attention on him and the k-hole consigliere, the better.
Did they turn around on selling the Justic and FBI buildings in more than an hour? Did they turn around on tariffs in a day? They are not doing well. Don’t give oxygen to the idea they are strong or inevitable. Like I said previously, in the big picture, they are shitting the bed. Sadly it is the same one we all sleep in and laundry is coming.
The key is to pick battles and not be a ninny in the face of gish gallop/zone flooding tactics. Quiet strength and stability is not the worst image to cultivate right now.
Jay
@Professor Bigfoot:
already happened,
https://ballotpedia.org/How_senators_voted_on_Trump_Cabinet_nominees,_2025
No torches, no pitchforks, no tumbrels, no rails, y’all are going to so politely walk into the gas chambers, no muss, no fuss, some of y’all won’t even have to be ordered, you will volunteer.
Voting “present” is not some “charge the ramparts act of resistance”
Voting for censure is complying in advance.
While us wonks notice, the normies are still trying to figure out layoffs, tariffs and egg prices.
Dan B
@The Thin Black Duke: I’m not certain of that. White people will find something to blame for their pain and it’s unlikely to be MAGA or Orange Thing. It’s more likely to be Lie-bruls. But we can hope.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@SuzieC:
I will never forget that Marcy Kaptur, during the housing crisis way back during President Obama’s first term, educated her constituents on how to defend against foreclosure. Her education worked for some and even won over some Ohio judges.
Marcy Kaptur earned my respect. She earned a lot of credit with Ohioans too, apparently. Ohio GOP tried to gerrymander her out of existence, but she beat Dennis Kucinich in 2010. They tried again last cycle. She won again. She walks the walk and she wins. I am not going to throw any stones her way.
The Republican Party caused all of this. Yet, somehow it seems to always be the Democratic Party’s fault.
I am not familiar with the others. I am familiar enough with the toxicity in which we currently swim to repeat
this toxic dump was wholly caused by the GOP with malice aforethought.
columbusqueen
Yep, damn straight.
Jay
@Glory b:
see #93 above.
You are the one bringing race into it, not me.
But I understand, voting “present” is a Bridge Too Far.
Professor Bigfoot
@Jay: Was everyone’s hair on fire when Ilhan Omar was censured?
Is it the performative notion that then every Dem voted against it? It passed anyway and what happened? Bupkis.
Nukular Biskits
@am:
Time and place.
Personally, I think that the Democrats shouldn’t have shown up. Period. That would have been a very quiet but loud message.
Time and place.
I think they should have applauded when Rep. Al Green fact-checked Trump in real time about him not having a mandate.
Time and place.
I also think none of them should have voted to censure Rep. Green.
I agree we should pick our battles and do so wisely. But when it comes time to fight, a fight it should be. Ten Democrats siding with Republicans to censure Rep. Green was not a fight … it was a capitulation.
The Thin Black Duke
@Dan B: Inevitably, the rubber is going to meet the road, politically speaking. As reliable a tool as Blaming The Democrats for the havoc the GOP did to this country throughout the years has been, it won’t work once Republican voters are kicked in their white bigoted sleepwalking asses by the new reality.
There’s a big difference between pretending to be tough by pissing on a rainbow flag or having your comfortable white suburban life being destroyed by the loss of your job, the loss of your home, the loss of your social security benefits. Priorities, y’know? To be blunt, their selfishness will be the deciding factor this time.
Professor Bigfoot
@Jay: Is it the performance of all the Dems voting together that matters to you?
Since being censured don’t mean shit as a Congressman?
YY_Sima Qian
If the Dem leaders (regardless of color, ethnicity & denomination) in Congress plead impotence because they are in the minority in both chambers (true), & they refuse to traffic in symbolism, what exactly are they doing? Why do they deserve any deference? Why are they even relevant?
The Repubs sure managed to obstruct a lot even when they were in the minority, & by a larger margin than the Dems right now.
Resolutely choosing the least bad option is for the voting booth. We are not in election season, we just lost an election. If now is not the time criticize elected Dems, when is it ever a good time? If you don’t even criticize elected Dems in between elections, why would any of them do anything other than take your vote for granted? It’s not like the Dems in Congress have no history of selling out the interests of one part of its coalition or another.
Tactically, I think it is correct to keep the limelight on Trump & his disastrous misrule, so Dem leaders aren’t the ones who should disrupt the proceedings of the SOTU. However, Dems also need people like Al Green to make a scene, to communicate to the general public that Dems are taking a stand & fighting, & the rest of the Dems should support him after the fact, & not trying to discipline him.
Yes, Trump’s popularity is cratering outside of the committed MAGA types, but it will not redound to Dem’s benefit if the general voting public don’t associate elected Dems w/ resistance to Trump in their minds.
Glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Yes, they only seem to respect us in the abstract.
There’s hardly a black person in existence who doesn’t have relatives who can’t recount how absolutely strategic and tactical civil rights leaders had to be, on both the national and local levels.
Making carefully curated protests look organic.
Long consultations with lawyers, church leaders and black business owners, the transportation networks established before the bus protests, the training for those who’d be arrested.
Their lives depended on it.
But now, when we explain what might be strategic, we get brushed off as if we couldn’t POSSIBLY understand how this works.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Dems won 3 presidential elections and Repubs 2 in that 20-year period. If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em, right?
Jackie
@Glory b:
I remember. And it still infuriates me to this day.
Hoodie
I get people being frustrated with the apparent passivity of Dems, but this situation poses a difficult problem for everyone who attempts to deal with it. Donald Trump is an unstable person who likely suffers from severe narcissistic personality disorder and he heads a party that is completely corrupt and dysfunctional and thus unable and/or unwilling to do anything about him. He’s president of the United States, with all the power afforded to that position, enhanced by the dipshits on the Supreme Court.
Aspects of his disorder are severe insecurity, feelings of persecution and grandiosity. Unlike his first term, he is now surrounded by committed zealots and ideologues, including people like Elon Musk, Peter Thiel (through Vance), Stephen Miller, Peter Navarro, etc., rather than more normal people who can talk him down (notice that Ivanka is noticeably absent). The people close to him now manipulate those aspects of Trump’s personality for their own purposes. Exhibit A is Vance’s goading him on during the Zelensky visit. That outburst was more about Vance than it was about Trump. Trump actually wasn’t all that agitated until Vance spun him up. Note what Vance said to spin up that conflict; Zelensky was acting ungrateful to Trump and disrespecting Trump, thus playing to his insecurity and grandiosity. There are other malicious actors are likely doing the similar things behind the scenes. This may be why his behavior, e.g., on and off tariffs, conflicting orders, etc. has been so erratic. He operates almost purely on emotion, so he is highly manipulable and constantly changes his mind. I would not be surprised if Putin takes similar advantage of him. His emotions are nearly always negative because of his personality disorder and because of all the negative inputs he’s getting.
So, what do you do about a situation like that? One option is to confront and further agitate him so he fucks up more and potentially hastens the day that people figure out that he’s bugfuck crazy and dangerous. Note that he got really mad about all the Dems that protested during the speech; it really bothers him that they don’t love him because that’s what he craves. It’s nonsense, of course, but he is crazy after all.
So, let’s say you keep driving him crazy, then what? Can you get enough Republicans to recognize the danger and vote to impeach and convict him, especially when a lot of them are equally nuts or scared for their lives and families? That’s a tall order and probably not realistic, at least not in the near future.
Alternatively, can you find a way to drive a wedge between him and his advisors so you can try to modulate his behavior? I think it’s important to realize that Trump is not much of an idealogue like the Musks, Navarros, Millers, Vances and others around him. Not that he’s not a racist and misogynist, but he’s driven by baser emotional things that mostly involve his perception of his popularity and genius. He’s learned that one way to be popular is to be openly racist and misogynist.
So, knowing that, some, like Starmer and Macron, have tried this second approach. For example, Starmer tries to get close by giving him an invitation from the king. Macron has done similar stuff like state visits to France, an honored place viewing the Bastille Day festivities (which, of course, thrilled Trump), and those ridiculous handshakes. Trump really wants to think that Macron is his buddy because he envies him, e.g., his svelte attire, fashionable sideburns, and all that glam Paris stuff. One thing to remember is that both Starmer and Macron have almost certainly been briefed by the psych sections of their intelligence services and they have a very good idea of what they’re dealing with. The same is probably true about the Canadians and the Mexicans and they may be trying some of the same things. It’s not a bad idea to try what they’re doing, even if it isn’t all that likely to work, because there aren’t a lot of alternatives right now. In fact, this might be one of the best avenues to get to him. He likes talking with all of these people because, well, they’re beautiful people and he likes to think he’s one of them (they didn’t call Putin The Moth for nothing).
It sucks that the fate of the world relies on handling a deeply sick individual like this, but that’s where we are, mainly because the country is a mess itself, buffeted by racial and cultural tensions and traumatized by a pandemic. So maybe when you criticize Dem leadership, understand that they’re dealing with the same shit these foreign leaders are, with even fewer tools.
chrisanthemama
Rep. Al Green is a rockstar and his Cane of Righteousness is too. *All* the Democrats should have walked out, one by one, with each lie, til the joint was half-empty. Making one guy take the fall is chickenshit. Fck civility and decorum–the other side does every single minute of every single day.
am
@Nukular Biskits:
I understand. Again, I don’t know. I don’t have time to know the 10 reps, when they’re up for reelection, or how their districts look. If they hold their seats and vote for what is right when it means something, I don’t care even a little.
What will happen to Rep. Green? As https://www.cbsnews.com/news/al-green-censure-house-vote-trump-speech/ says
A censure doesn’t matter at all. The president was impeached twice, and nobody cared. I recommend letting Republicans get the vapors about this, while we spend our precious and finite time on more important matters like reminding people about pocketbook concerns and – as Rep Crockett said so well – the president being Putin’s ho. People are disgusted by whiners and don’t respect worriers. Green looks strong, nobody gives a shit about a censure, and Republians can go worry and whine about about propriety.
The Thin Black Duke
@Glory b: There’s a reason why we’re not seeing a lot of black bodies out in the streets protesting. Not this time.
Cathie from Canada
@Chetan Murthy: sorry I was writing my comment before I saw yours.
Yes the Dem actions are inexplicable.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
But we’ve lost ground nationally.
ETA: Our wins were mostly after Republicans ruined everything.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Thin Black Duke: “Welp, these folks know better.”
The downside, of course, is that those folks who know better will eventually sell our rights away, too.
LAC
@Glory b: Honey, they do not mean it. It’s “get angry when we are or keep your mouth shut otherwise”. Simple rule..
This is all about hurt fee fees, that is all.
Glory b
@Betty Cracker: With lefties bitterly complaining the whole time.
The Crime Bill, Obama, the “Deporter in Chief,” “Genocide Joe ”
If it wasn’t for black voters, Obama would likely not have gotten a second term. He had explained that he considered himself more of a moderate, but lefties considered it rule breaking to vote for the black guy without paying attention to what he actually said (shades of Fetterman! ).
The vote for Obama’s reelection was the last one under the original Voting Rights Act, before the Supreme Court gutted it.
Now, black people wait in long lines, for hours, in the heat, rain, etc.
They are imprisoned for the most minor voting infractions, while white voters doing the same go to a seminar on why you can’t cast a vote for your dead wife.
But, couldn’t save Biden for the same reasons.
Meanwhile, too many of you rake us over the coals for having the temerity to say “Stop and think,” but won’t confront your MAGA friends about their votes.
Hoodie
@Betty Cracker: But Dems haven’t held Congress as long, which is more important when your president doesn’t act like a dictator, or when the other party’s president does.
Steve Crickmore
‘Leadership (Hakeem Jeffries) is “very unhappy” with those who went beyond traditional protest tactics like outfit coordination and refusal to clap, a senior House Democrat told Axios’. I think If Jeffries watched more of the House of Commons PM’s Question Period, he might give some of his colleagues a wider latitude in expressing their dissent from the President’s State of the Union address. The protests were a pretty tame show in comparison with Opposition barracking In Westminister that takes place, regularly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Tc6qg9K2A
Dan B
@Glory b: Early Gay Liberation, at least in Chicago, was full of veterans of the Civil Rights Movement. We learned a great deal from that. We were very grateful for the wisdom and experience.
Gvg
@B1naryS3rf: perception is more important than reality sometimes. If that’s what many black voters think, it’s important to keep it in mind.
I think that even if the leaders were furious, they should have not shown it publicly. Voting with these republicans is not a good look and will be worse in the long run. Keeping the appearance of being United in spite of differences would be the better tactic IMO.
A lot of voters don’t keep track of enough detail to know people mad at Jeffries also like Crockett and AOC.
schrodingers_cat
@Glory b: Yeah. Mohandas Gandhi and the satyagrahis had to be strategic too. Gandhi called off a highly successful multi year protest after a mob burned down a police station. The British Indian Police were pretty high handed in beating up the non-violent protesters. It was not a popular move at that time.
Professor Bigfoot
Seriously, how fucking credible are these sonsabitches? We already know for a fact that media will lie to us, and just how much credibility do YOU assign to unnamed “senior House Democrat” speaking to Axios??
The Thin Black Duke
@Glory b: It’s the political equivalent of being told to “shut up and dribble”.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Have we lost ground? I think it’s pretty much a draw between partisans, and the panicked herd of gazelles who are unaffiliated voters run between them, driven by random shit like gas prices, etc. Anyhoo, I’ll keep voting for Dems as they are the non-fascist party. But I think they’re taking the wrong lesson here, and it makes me sad and angry and disgusted. YMMV.
LeonS
If you are serious about building bipartisan coalitions you are not serious.
Martin
@B1naryS3rf: But that’s my point. You say decorum is gone. I agree. But a LOT of voters like Trump because he’s grotesque, which is a clear indication that he’s not like the kind of people that operate in DC. The more obscene he is, the more appealing he becomes to them.
You can’t counter that by being obscene yourself. You counter that by focusing on the other costs being borne of that obscenity. Like I said, if Democrats wanted to shut down the SOTU, and I mean that literally – make it so it can’t happen – then that will be noticed. But yelling during the SOTU is old hat now. It doesn’t matter. You can’t win this by yelling. You win this by fighting.
That’s what I’m waiting for – when Democrats realize that rallying popular support is useless against an administration that is willing to hold power against popular support. You have to leverage real power, and Democrats aren’t there yet. I think they’re getting there, but it’s going to have to be organized and unified, and not this shit.
schrodingers_cat
@The Thin Black Duke: Indeed. Anytime we stop being an amen chorus we are chastised and told that we have to come together and focus on the Rs.
Forget the MAGA, people ostensibly on our side don’t want to listen to us.
LeonS
@Glory b: “MAGA friends”? Surely you jest.
Betty Cracker
@Glory b: You’re full of shit about “not confronting your MAGA friends,” but I appreciate your making the (false) accusation openly instead of the usual passive-aggressive bullshit.
Chief Oshkosh
@matt: True, but telling everyone to show up, sit up straight, and be quiet is not what’s needed. I was partial to the idea of everyone showing up, sitting quietly, then right as Hair Furor started spewing, one by one, standing up, staring for a half beat, then walking out.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I think we have lost ground. Much of that is because of the Senate situation and gerrymandering but the effect is real. Too many places are now loyal R. More so than are loyal D. I don’t like it but I’m not surprised if Dems feel there’s no more room to grow on the left.
YY_Sima Qian
@Martin: The point of the performative acts, & we are talking about performative acts here, is signaling to the general public. Actual effective action will be things like a general strike, but signaling resistance is part of rallying the anti-Fascist coalition into an organized & unified force, capable of unified action. Otherwise, why would people outside of committed Dem partisans follow the Dem Party?
Glory b
@The Thin Black Duke: Truth.
rb
@Glory b:
So then why is leadership provoking it and – I cannot stress enough how fucking stupid this is – leaking it to the Vichy press?
God damn. I’m typically one to defend leadership on account of herding cats being really hard, but this is some surrender monkey bullshit. If he’s this inept it’s malpractice not to call him on it.
pajaro
Do you remember last week when Axios posted an article: “In unanimous votes in House and Senate, on budget deal and protecting trans kids, Democratic Members of Congress demonstrate impressive unity”. Oh you didn’t? I wonder why Axios didn’t think it was that newsworthy? Axios has an overwhelming desire to push “Democrats in disarray.” So they did. And they were right to do so, because it drives more engagement, even in a place like this, than the converse.
I said before the SOTU that there was no way that Dems were come out looking good, no matter what they did, and nothing that happened the other night has changed my view.
Finally, I really, really disagree with John that if this article were incorrect, people would have gone public to correct the record. If the article is even a fraction correct, there were people who believed they were engaged in confidential conversations. The idea that some of these people, who might have wanted the biggest story of the evening to be Trump’s ravings, rather than the Democratic response, would now go on the record to elaborate or correct the article, so that the Dems in Disarray story could continue another day or two, is beyond illogical.
zhena gogolia
Looks like I picked a good evening to go out.
Ruckus
@Feckless:
They are NOT the people responsible for this entire fucking mess.
They are closer to the bullshit than any of us and they are going to get shit for what, not having a shootout at the OK corral?
We are all mad at them. Some of us earned things, like actually getting paid working, and some times risking our lives for this country. But in any country that isn’t a dictatorship the people are a vital and valuable large piece of making it work. And one does not get there and stay there by being a complete asshole – as you’d like them to.
We work within the guidelines/rules/laws, and the people you talk so shitty about do as well
I’ve now seen a bit more than the first couple comments.
PEOPLE, WE NEED TO BE BETTER THAN THESE ASSHOLES. We need to work within the limitations of or democracies rules and laws. The other side’s leaders are not.
LET’S NOT BE LIKE THEM.
Let’s be better. It isn’t hard, tough or impossible to be better than them. And in the long run it works tremendously better.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Hopefully they pick up the volunteer and $$ energy of not-quite-Trumpists to offset the loss of people who aren’t cool with them throwing trans people, Rep. Green, etc., under the bus. I’ll keep voting for them. No other choice. But I think it sucks, and I believe it is a misreading of the moment.
kalakal
@schrodingers_cat:
My viewpoint exactly.
Exactly how I felt (and voted) in the UK for years.
UncleEbeneezer
Sorry, but on the list of things to be truly upset about, this is like triple digits down on mine.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know. Whatever they do could fail. But I have no idea how to advise them objectively, and I’m not going to try.
Darkrose
I called Rep. Matsui to thank her for voting Nay. I made it clear that I don’t expect her to be confrontational, but that I appreciate her standing up for her colleague.
I also replied to Ami Bera (CA-03) on Bluesky. He’s in the adjacent district, and I sent him money when he was in a very close race the first time he ran. I let him know that I want my money back if he’s going to be a spineless coward.
UncleEbeneezer
@Glory b: As annoying as Respectability stuff is to me, personally, I totally get where that urge comes from, especially for Black People, based on the history. Rod & Karen on TheBlackGuyWhoTips podcast have had some killer discussions on the topic. Defending some of the decisions of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton etc., that they felt were unfairly criticized by young activists.
Ruckus
@gratuitous:
I wish it wasn’t so, but better to have an occasionally disappointing Democrat in that seat than a stone-age nazi.
THIS. We should NEVER accept their tactics. Sure that might be a faster way to win, but this isn’t a game. Not in any way is this a game. This serious, as serious as it gets. And while we can wish it was better and that we won’t win playing within the rules, this is a long run problem and we’ve past stage one and are getting close to stage three of a problem of this level and magnitude. There is NO EASY WAY HERE. None, nada. We are 340+ million people and we will never all agree 100%. NEVER. That does not give us the right to become them, just in reverse.
satby
I thought we were contemptuous of the performative bullshit the Rs always do. Now that’s what you all want and you think it signifies resistance? I think to a lot of normies, it just reinforces the “both sides” arguments: both sides are clowns who don’t really care about normal people. I think the Dems who did town halls instead had the right idea.
Miki
FFS. Jeffries told the Dem caucus “You do you, but be dignified.” So they did themselves. TBH, watching the disorganized display was painful, not because their messages were weak but the lack of cohesiveness pretty much diluted and/or distorted the messages – except the really strong ones, like Rep. Green’s.
Jeffries was not there before or after as a leader. I’m surprised by that, actually. He’s stood up before. But not now. He’s just not up to this moment.
A Ghost to Most
Talkers talk. Talking hasn’t gotten it done. Bullies don’t care what you say until you punch them in the mouth. YMMV.
satby
@Hoodie: Good comment.
Omnes Omnibus
WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU PEOPLE?! I am stunned by the dismissiveness that I am seeing toward the perceptions of Black and Asian commenters in this thread. You don’t have to accept their viewpoint that is born of a very different lived experience from that of most white commenters, but simply dismissing it out of hand because it challenges your world view is a pretty illiberal stance. It’s fucking embarrassing.
geg6
House Dem leadership can go fuck themselves. Comity fetishists unprepared and unworthy of the moment. I will not be sending any cash to anyone except state and local candidates. The national party and all its campaign arms can kiss my ass. What a bunch of cowards.
Phein64
Dear Mr. Cole,
Please do not apologize. You are merely re-stating something Harry S Truman said many years ago:
“The people don’t want a phony Democrat. If it’s a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don’t want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.” — Address at the National Convention Banquet of the American for Democratic Action, May 17, 1952
My grandfather and his brother ran Truman’s Senate campaign in Missouri all those years ago, and although they were both stout conservative Catholics, they couldn’t stomach Republicans or fake Democrats.
Lily
Hoping some new candidates will appear among the fired federal workers. Smart, enraged, committed to functioning government, candidates with inside experience of this depraved sadistic lawlessness.
Darkrose
I’m sorry, but I am going to call Jeffries out for his inability to rise to the occasion. If nothing else, it’s political malpractice. All last year, Democrats told us how dangerous Trump was. Now we’re seeing the results in real time, and the party can’t come together on a unified response. They don’t seem interested in galvanizing the base, or actually using the power they have to fight for their constituents; instead they’re looking around to see who gets thrown under the bus next. They look weak and feckless and cowardly.
This is a 5-alarm fire for the U.S. Trump, Musk, Vance, and their coalition of Christian nationalists and unhinged oligarchs are eager to turn this country back to the Gilded Age by force, and the best the opposition party can do is hold up church fans and ask for “decorum”.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: What does passive-aggressive bullshit mean, please elaborate.
There are some handles I don’t tag because I have been at the receiving end of nastiness and personal insults from them for years.
I have 2 options not comment at all or ignore the said commenters.
So I do both. I comment less and when I do, I don’t interact with those handles.
Glory b
@rb: Leaking what?
Glory b
@Miki: This was a variation on Pelosi’s “Just win, baby.”
He trusts that his members know their districts and he won’t bully them into a bad move.
Members who lose their seats to Republicans don’t help anything.
geg6
@YY_Sima Qian:
Exactly this.
Darkrose
@satby: The Democrats are the opposition party. I want to see them opposing Trump, not each other.
I remember the Democratic Party from 1980-1992. My first vote ever was for Michael Dukakis, a decent man and terrible politician who was completely overmatched. I also remember how Bill Clinton won, largely by throwing Black folks all the way under the bus. “End welfare as we know it,” Sister Souljah, signing off on the execution of an intellectually disabled Black man–Clinton even abandoned Lani Gunier when the right dug into her academic writing, and she had been a personal friend of his.
I have zero faith that the current Democratic leadership isn’t going to do the same. They’re so busy chasing the mythical white moderates that they don’t have time to fight for their marginalized constituents, and it’s a lot easier to shove us into the path of an oncoming bus than to actually take a stand on anything.
Chetan Murthy
@Cathie from Canada: haha no worries, I only referenced it b/c I didn’t want to type it again *grin*.
Darkrose
Right now, Democratic leadership seems to be doing everything in their power to support the argument that both parties suck equally, giving more fuel to non-voters. I genuinely don’t understand how they think this is going to help them.
Steve Crickmore
@Darkrose: Well said. These may seem like early days, but I think Democrat leaders should be looking at raising the consciousness of the public and the seriousness of the threat and peril to the Republic, in some symbolic acts rather than just speaking about it. The theater doesn’t have to be as grave as the self-immolation of Buddhist monks in Saigon pouring gasoline on themselves and then lighting a match, which ignited the Vietnam anti-war protests in 1963, but there needs something to be done, non-violently to raise attention to the damage that Trump and Musk are doing.
Ruckus
@Hoodie:
BINGO.
You take me back to my mental health counselor days.
We have to see the other side, not just as the other side but in how they work and do they follow the rules and how can we show them what is realistic, what actually works – and what doesn’t. And that joining them by acting the same way is wrong. This ain’t the gun slinger and the town sheriff facing off on Main street. IOW we don’t play their game, we don’t play games at all, we look at things in the long haul and what is the correct manner, the rules – the law.
Miki
@Glory b: Except they did their thing, and then had their asses handed to them by Pastor Fucking Johnson but also by 10 Dems with, apparently, follow-up scolding by Dem leadership. WTF? I.e., we lost and keep losing.
That’s my issue.
Leadership is lacking. Corral the Fucking Cats, FFS.
geg6
@Glory b:
Sorry, gotta disagree here. I am basically a shut in for the last 8 years due to confronting my MAGA former friends and neighbors. My only social life is with family and a small circle of old friends who think similarly to me. I live in MAGA country, so my circle has shrunk to about 20 or 25 people, period. I don’t regret cutting those ties because they revealed themselves to be awful monsters but to say that no white people have had the courage to do that is bullshit.
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
Completely agree. Not donating to or volunteering for them though, unless they are my state or local reps and senators. I’ll vote for them since there is no other choice. Fuck the national party and “leadership.”
WheatBoy56
@gratuitous: I live in MGP’s district. Yes, her victory margin in 2022 was paper thin. Then slightly better in 2024. But I think her being a conspicuous Blue Dog may not provide so much of her electability advantage as conventional wisdom suggests. Local Democrats worked very hard for her on the ground last fall, specifically in the northern CD3 counties, to keep her loss margins there small and allow Clark County to carry her over the line, albeit just barely. She has had I believe great benefit from a national profile (NYTimes articles, CNN interviews, etc) that doesn’t happen so much with less photogenic, less biographically gifted 1st-termers. I am active in local Democrat organizing in the north and I would say that right now her liberal base up here is not very happy with her. I expect that if there are Congressional elections in 2026 there will be a strong anti-incumbency mood among Democratic voters– if anything like nowadays there will be a degree of outright hostility– and she will again have a 50:50 chance of losing even if the midterm electorate tilts more Democratic. I think Erik Loomis’ comment today at LG&M is about right re Marie’s situation, and that seems to agree with your post. Cheers!
Professor Bigfoot
@Omnes Omnibus:
There’s one irrefutable fact of life— no Democrat wins without the enthusiastic support of the Black electorate.
Since we can’t seem to do it right, well, good luck without us.
Ruckus
I’m seeing a bunch of left sided websites are like us – PISSED OFF.
And yet some of them are trying to make this a commercial for their website. I’m not impressed.
Current US politics is screwed up. We have an aging out man-baby in the highest office, whose seemingly entire concept of life is that it is only about him. He has a “buddy” that is trying to play the game because said buddy seems to think his solid exhaust is worth all the money he has. It isn’t.
I believe that we are all upset because how do we actually fight this?
People here are attacking some of the people that we need to have on our side and that are and that ain’t the way to win. Acting like the opposition here to fix this won’t work. We have to take the high road and work through this properly. Anything else makes us no better than shitforbrains and his friends/supporters.
PatD
@Glory b: Jeffries incompetence and hubris is doing all of their work for him. It’s normie Dems who are sick of his timidity and poor political instincts.
PatD
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m a minority who is just plain sick of all the gate keeping. We don’t get to pretend that we represent the entirety of the black or Asian electorate just because people criticized a minority who happens to be in leadership. That’s a form of political intimidation.
Wyliecoat
@Betty Cracker: sent Newsom a stinker of a voice mail. All I can do. I’m this close to leaving the Dem Party. If you don’t stand for something consistently, voters simply don’t trust you.
LAC
@Professor Bigfoot: yep…we have to step aside and let those who got it all figured out do it. I wish them well. We will be asked to put our bodies and votes in for the greater good in a couple years, but what is new?
schrodingers_cat
Guys we need to be strategic, not dissolve into a puddle of self righteous anger because elected Ds are not reaching your standards of perfection. The other side wants to destroy everything this country has stood for the last 80 years.
With that I am out for the night.
Gloria DryGarden
@Glory b: I found your comment instructive. Thank you.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Is that the same judge who said “the president is not king” in the past year or two?
chemiclord
@am:
I just really really wish we’d accept there is not going to be a consensus on how to “resist” or “fight back.” There simply isn’t, and swinging at each others heads over it is counterproductive.
Gloria DryGarden
To Omnes Omnibus, am, and Ruckus,
i found your comments clear, sane, and balanced, and I thank you for it.
The stuff where people make others wrong, for what they should have differently, doesn’t help, and doesn’t seem skillful. There’s a lot of wisdom, experience and skill around here, which is much more fun to read than the circular firing squad stuff.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: One of the great privileges of Whiteness is the belief that when we decide we are mad at Dems, all that Listen To Black People stuff can go right out the window.
Gloria DryGarden
@chemiclord: agreeing w you.
I’m remembering a comment a few days ago, someone said, we have to try different things, and see what works. (Probably it was Omnes.) That may well apply here too, re SOTU, protesting vs remaining dignified so the jerks can hog all the attention as they show their weird destructive thinking. And even about the censure Vote. (which I’m appalled by. But I don’t know what their strategies are).
I remain curious to understand and observe which approaches end up being effective.
scav
Sometimes it seems more would be accomplished if people devoted even half the energy working with the resources they do have than the amount of energy they actually spend bitching about what they lack.
cain
@Jackie: happy to make them the story.
YY_Sima Qian
@Glory b: You make a number of great points here. However, the Civil Rights Movement was that of a marginalized minority fighting to overthrow an unjust status quo, needing to gain enough support from elements of the majority to achieve their aims. The current situation is trying to prevent things (a baseline that still does systematically disadvantage & marginalize minorities) from getting nightmarishly worse for the vast majority, including all of the minorities.
We are where the South Koreans, Hungarians, Poles & Ukrainians have been, & where the Georgians & Romanians currently are. I think that calls for different tactics and strategies. Or have we given up on that? If we let the reactionaries consolidate their hold on power, then we will have to draw much closer parallels to the Civil Rights Movement, & and the Independence movement in India, & that’s a terrible place to start from.
Tehanu
@Jackie:
Great idea. Frankly, I’d fall over dead with shock if the misinfo didn’t get to Vladi.
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Yeah, I miss Steve Gilliard too. Thanks for the great quote.
@Hoodie: Your analysis is probably right, but I still think there must be some way for the Democrats to show some spine.
cain
@Glory b:
Sure, but my outrage is the fact the house Dems never censored anybody who did an outburst against Biden or Obama.
But a black man gets censored and ten people from our party joins in. Whether Jeffries was displeased or not not one of our people should have backed the GOP on any votes against our party. Especially a black man who told the truth.
The fact that he was escorted out when two trashy white women were allowed to stay is fucking bullshit.
Ruckus
@Glory b:
In case I haven’t said this here before, I am an old white man.
And I agree with you 1000%.
This crap isn’t normal, not in any way, shape or form. We have to work together, no matter our skin color or our political side. We have a moron as president and his puppet master is the world’s richest man/moron. Both of whom seem to think that one’s bank/stock accounts are the entire concept of life.
It’s humanity, in all it’s glory (and no I can’t really think of much of that at this moment) and all of it’s pure crap. Which at this point in time is mostly what we are seeing – pure crap. (I’m using the nicer word here, the other one is more appropriate)
People here are basically bad mouthing a black man doing his part in getting this taken care of. NO ONE is going to fix this alone. It’s too big a deal, there is too much bullshit and lies and crap being flung for one human to fix it. It won’t fix itself, and one or two humans won’t fix it either. It will take a lot of us. Now exactly what to do is the million dollar question because none of us have seen this up close and as personal as it is for all of us. And which politician can fix this? It will take more than one, and part of that is the country that this is, it’s structure. I’m not saying this is impossible I’m saying that one person cannot do it alone.
We have to work together, the politicians on our side have to work together, we have to help them. Not belittle them or yell and scream at them. Sure this is quite possibly the worst it’s ever been. I’d guess that the civil war wasn’t all that and a donut. But this is a different situation and will take a different path to fix.
I have zero specifics in mind because I have no political experience other than voting and also being a citizen for over 7 decades.
Tehanu
@cain: Absolutely. I’m really disgusted.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus:
Coming late to the thread. Thank you for speaking up and saying that.
cain
@UncleEbeneezer:
What I was pissed off was not about Jeffries. If the whole vote is performative then why join with a GOP action.
My problem was with the 10 members of the house who participated in the censure. It makes it look bipartisan.
Ksmiami
@geg6: 100 percent. They need to stiffen their spines or get the fuck out of the way.
am
@chemiclord: agreed, which is why I’m not doing that. I see merit in Jeffries approach. Others may disagree and that’s fine. I am not overly picky about who I call an ally at this point.
BarcaChicago
@Omnes Omnibus: THANK YOU.
Adrian Lesher
Nothing wrong with this post.
Ramalama
Didn’t Nancy Pelosi give Jeffries her seal of approval? She was great at corralling or finding consensus, great at raising money, great at certain theatrics… ripping up Trump’s speech during his first term SOTU. She knows talent. Jeffries isn’t as firebrandy as I’d prefer but I’m not a black man in this wave of monsters in DC.
i completely forgot about Omar getting censured.
chemiclord
@Ramalama: It should tell you a lot about how much the censure vote matters.
Is it good that ten Democrats crossed the aisle on this? No. Is it something worth getting into a fight over? Also no.
rb
Yes, yes, it’s Axios, it’s aligned against us, the worst quotes will be highlighted. Well our Congressional leadership should know this as well and not give them the worst quotes.
They have to herd cats, it’s a tough job, fine. But how this looks out here where I’m trying to convince people to rally is: what little rallying there is is being lectured about being a ‘bad idea’ – AND a nontrivial portion of the caucus is colluding with Rs in setting our members up to be further stripped of power.
Lead the caucus, enforce discipline, shut your mouth when tempted to talk to hostile press about strategy and whether other caucus members are ‘like children.’ That includes staff members ‘familiar with the situation.’ It really isn’t too much to ask.
Paul in KY
@Professor Bigfoot: That is great advice from Napoleon. They are stepping on their dicks every day. Democrats need to keep their terrible decisions in the news!
Paul in KY
@The Thin Black Duke: I sure hope so (for every POS that voted for TFG)!
Paul in KY
@Betty Cracker: My 1 MAGA friend/relative knows I think he’s a stupid POS for voting for TFG. We just agree to disagree…
Paul in KY
@Phein64: Pres. Truman’s quote should be engraved in any Democratic politician’s office. FDR welcomed their hate. Too many on our side (elected officials) don’t, IMO.