So… Monday:
“What we see is that they want to dull our free speech rights”: Jasmine Crockett
Rep. Jasmine Crockett (D-TX) responds to warning from AG Pam Bondi on Tesla protests
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfQ4…— MSNBC (@msnbc.com) March 24, 2025 at 2:09 PM
I guess Bondi figured attacking the Uppity Brown Lady was a sure win with the (very) Base, even if it meant giving the vile libs more fuel for mockery. Also too, that other bleach-blond wannabe Alina Habba is getting way too much earned media…
This is so dumb lmao. Crockett will win and make Bondi look stupid and also raise her national profile by like 1000x
— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) March 23, 2025 at 10:06 PM
Crockett: Pam Bondi, if you have an issue with terrorism, maybe you should talk to your boss about locking back up those guys that he let out that participated in January 6th.
To reiterate what I said last night. Crockett would love to suddenly become one of the most important and visible anti Trump voices in the country.
Please continue, general.— Schnorkles O'Bork (@schnorkles.bsky.social) March 24, 2025 at 9:49 PM
======
Wednesday:
Jasmine Crockett under fire for mocking Texas governor’s wheelchair: ‘Governor Hot Wheels down there’
— The Independent (@the-independent.com) March 25, 2025 at 6:30 PM
#GVerse via @artcandee.bsky.social
MAGA is big mad at Democratic House Rep. Jasmine Crockett @repjasmine.bsky.social for making this comment about Texas Governor Greg Abbott:“Y’all know we’ve got Governor Hot Wheels down there…and the only hot thing about him is that he’s a hot ass mess.”
— 𝕲𝖆𝖊𝖙𝖆𝖓𝖔 (@gmf1369.bsky.social) March 25, 2025 at 2:13 PM
I wasn’t thinking about the governor’s condition—I was thinking about the planes, trains, and automobiles he used to transfer migrants into communities led by Black mayors, deliberately stoking tension and fear among the most vulnerable.
— Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (@repjasmine.bsky.social) March 25, 2025 at 3:46 PM
Literally, the next line I said was that he was a “Hot A** Mess,” referencing his terrible policies. At no point did I mention or allude to his condition.
So, I’m even more appalled that the very people who unequivocally support Trump—a man known for racially insensitive nicknames and mocking those with disabilities—are now outraged.
Keep that same energy for all people, not just your political adversaries.
Finally, this is yet another distraction. Instead of obsessing over and hanging on to my every word, maybe my political foes should focus on doing the work of the people who elected us to improve their lives.
www.texastribune.org/2024/02/21/t…
— Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (@repjasmine.bsky.social) March 25, 2025 at 3:47 PM
Democrat Responds to Backlash After Calling Abbott 'Governor Hot Wheels' https://twp.ai/1VDO4E
— #TuckFrump (@realtuckfrumper.bsky.social) March 25, 2025 at 5:16 PM
Abbott’s office has not publicly responded to Crockett’s comments.
I don't like "Hot Wheels" because one of my wheelchair-using friends suggested "Governor Strangelove" and that's so much better
— Balzac Asimov, Tekkaman Green👨🦯 (@balzac-asimov.bsky.social) March 25, 2025 at 11:30 PM
Sorry, but if we got one lesson from 2024, it's that people love dunking on the poor, unlucky, and disabled. we're meeting people where they're at.
— Cai (@annenotation.bsky.social) March 25, 2025 at 12:58 PM
On The Road – Auntie Anne – Southeast Asia – The Grand Palace, Bangkok, Thailand 2 of 3
Baud
“Leave Elon aloooone…” is now official US policy.
zhena gogolia
Yeah, my God, Trump has been mocking the disabled since his first campaign!!!!
Jeffg166
Snowflakes.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
She explained she wasn’t doing that though. Let’s not buy into fake Republican/media spin like that last post did.
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
Trump gets away with it, because rich white men operate under different rules than the rest of society.
**********
Conservative Christian straight white men, get a lot more latitude to be assholes than any other group in society, and they are the core of the Republican Party.
I think she’s pushing the edge of how far she can take the snappy one liners against Republicans. If a Republican called a wheelchair bound prominent Democrat “hot wheels”, I can see us being pissed.
Deputinize America
I’ve long thought that the coming revolution should involve shoving Abbott and his chair down a makeshift ramp directly into that barbwire fence he’s strung up at that park by the Rio Grande and setting up a video camera for pay-per-view hilarity.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Okay.
brendancalling
As I’ve remarked on other posts about JC’s comments, “Being paraplegic is sad and not something I’d wish on anyone, but you don’t get to act like an ASSHOLE and then hide behind your disability.”
Baud
@gene108:
And Republicans wouldn’t care that we were pissed. Or the media.
Baud
@brendancalling:
Treating assholes as assholes is the epitome of equality.
JoyceH
Abbot got off light. Remember when Crockett called Empty Gee a “bleach blonde badly built butch body”?
YY_Sima Qian
The Trump gang is turning the US into Putinist Russia 2.0.
At this point, I kind of wish (but not really) the reactionary project would model after the PRC or Vietnam. At least have some competence, developmentalism & long term thinking to go w/ the authoritarianism, cynicism, & sometime malevolence. Of course, it would be much easier for this brand of authoritarianism to become entrenched.
Baud
@YY_Sima Qian:
Everyone here has know that would happen for years.
gene108
From Heather Cox Richardson’s Substack. Read the whole thing.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/march-25-2025?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=20533&post_id=159886764&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=4hwhy&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
The part I highlighted about “we had all done something wrong” seems to be missing from society today. If this happened today and the subsequent government response would inconvenience powerful interests, I think our right-wing propaganda machine would find a way to demonize the victims and shoot down proposed reforms.
I honestly don’t know how much resistance was put up to the subsequent changes in building codes, safety standards, and labor laws as a result of this tragedy.
I feel with our current ability to have instantaneous information and opinions, whether accurate or not, has been exploited in the U.S. to keep societal divisions from ever creating a collective consciousness where almost everyone decides “we had all done something wrong” and change must be made.
I think that’s one of the biggest problems we face as a nation.
gene108
@Baud:
I think Republicans would be laughing about how we “can’t a joke”.
YY_Sima Qian
@Baud: Even Putin is not quite as self-destructive, at least before the re-invasion of Ukraine.
Baud
@gene108:
Correct. Let’s be strong like they are.
Baud
@YY_Sima Qian:
Agree. Trump shares Putin’s heart but not Putin’s competence.
YY_Sima Qian
@Baud: We all knew the reactionaries would try, but I am still a little surprised at how quickly they have managed it, w/ how little push back from all of the institutions & the “deep state”.
Baud
@YY_Sima Qian:
I’m not surprised by how things have progressed.
lowtechcyclist
@brendancalling:
This. Abbott’s political agenda consists of punching down on the less fortunate, just like all other prominent Republicans. So if someone punches down on him and his friends all clutch their pearls about it, well, fuck them.
J.
And Republicans call Democrats snowflakes?! The thin-skinness of these people and hypocrisy is breathtaking. Also, back in the day, Hot Wheels were cool. And Abbott is definitely not cool. But I applaud Rep. Crockett’s energy. We need more politicians like her right now.
Nukular Biskits
Good mornin’, y’all.
Baud
@Nukular Biskits:
Good morning.
Dorothy A. Winsor
It’s telling that Bondi demands an apology rather than takes legal action. She sounds like a Mean Girl in a flounce rather than an AG.
The Audacity of Krope
I mean…do we believe everything she says because she’s a Democrat? I don’t see any particular reason to be incensed because her target is an awful, awful person.
But c’mon…
Nukular Biskits
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
It’d be interesting (in a car-wreck-rubbernecking way) to hear some of Bondi’s high school and college contemporaries dish on her.
I’m willing to bet she was the stereotypical mean girl.
YY_Sima Qian
The impact of NIH cuts:
Dr. Lin should probably expect feelers from PRC/Hong Kong universities, & European/Canadian/Australian/Singaporean ones, too.
Meanwhile from the fast emerging competitor to the US biotech sector:
MagdaInBlack
@Nukular Biskits: Was, and is.
EarthWindFire
This. Is Abbott some kind of “DEI hire” or something? You know that would come up if the shoe was on the other foot.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
I believe her unless given a reason not to that’s not based on cynicism.
And I do treat Dems different from Republicans. I’m not throwing my experience out the window when making judgments.
prostratedragon
For someone to promote as many viscious policies as Abbott has over the years to retreat behind the shelter of his wheelchair (through surrogates) is a pretty low thing, in the opinion of this hot wheels user. If he wants to be the big man he should speak up and say, “That’s nothing to me, I can take that.”
The Audacity of Krope
I believe my immediate understanding of her comment which was very much about the man’s wheelchair. That was the first and most obvious image evoked.
I’m not mad. But I’m not here to play pretend.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Your choice. I don’t associate Hot Wheels with wheelchairs but with cars. But who knows? I can’t see into anyone’s heart.
YY_Sima Qian
@Baud: A huge part of why the reactionaries have been able ti implement their agenda so quickly is because all of the old institutions surrendered, a small example among the teeming multitude:
Betty Cracker
@Nukular Biskits: Bondi and I were at the University of Florida together, but I didn’t know her, nor did my Gator contemporaries with whom I’m still in touch. Bondi was probably in one of the snootiest sororities, whereas I was a stoned, broke punk, so I reckon we ran in different circles.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Audacity of Krope: Officially, I fully accept her explanation.
Personally, I hope she really WAS referring to his modus transportationii because the son of a bitch deserves every bit of “punching down” that can happen to him.
Baud
@YY_Sima Qian:
Ok.
eclare
@brendancalling:
Very good point.
Nukular Biskits
@Betty Cracker:
So you were a “GDI”?
The Thin Black Duke
Like it or not, the ability to be both smart and funny while also making it look effortless is a very rare and specific skill set, and not everyone politician is good at it. Jasmine Crockett is a superb communicator and it would be political malpractice to not make use of her talents. The squealing from the GOP is evidence that it’s working. Please, ma’am, may I have some more?
The Thin Black Duke
@Baud: I don’t know why so many folks on “our” side can’t help themselves from punching Democrats.
pluky
@Betty Cracker: “probably in one of the snootiest sororities”
For the record, she’s a TriDelt (Delta Delta Delta). So yeah.
Betty Cracker
@The Audacity of Krope: I would have assumed it was a wheelchair reference if I’d been in the audience. Don’t give fuck either because I wouldn’t interpret the reference as slagging on everyone who uses a wheelchair.
One of the pitfalls of speaking like a real person and eschewing focus-grouped talking points is that occasionally someone will find something you said offensive, even if you didn’t mean to give offense.
It’s worth it, imo. If you don’t routinely act like an asshole, reasonable people will give you the benefit of the doubt. As for the rest, fuck ‘em.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
QFT
TONYG
@JoyceH: Ha ha. Politics aside, I’d pay to watch a stand-up routine by Crockett.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@The Thin Black Duke:
Yup. She makes it look effortless.
Jackie
O/T, but funny – at least worth a chuckle…
The Audacity of Krope
This. Much more reasonable take than not what I/she meant. Own shit.
Now let’s offend some Nazis.
eclare
@pluky:
That was my guess, Tri Delt.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
To be clear, I also wouldn’t be offended if she did intend to refer to the wheelchair. But I don’t see a basis for second guessing her own explanation for what she meant.
eclare
@Nukular Biskits:
GDI?
Baud
@eclare:
Goddamned individual
The Audacity of Krope
Political career.
SATSQ
eclare
@Baud:
Thanks!
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
That’s just cynicism, not a fact based reason.
Betty Cracker
@eclare: Goddamn Independent. That’s what we called it back in the day, if someone asked. Don’t know what the current crop of yoots call it.
The Audacity of Krope
@The Thin Black Duke: Who’s punching? I have no problem what she said. I just prize honesty.
Beyond that, I prize her energy and maybe don’t want to see her backtracking.
pluky
@eclare: It was that, or a Pi Phi.
different-church-lady
Wilhoit’s law: Musk is protected, Crockett is bound.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
No, Trump gets away with it because his base loves shit talking while our base demands absolute perfection from our people.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Those two explanations aren’t mutually exclusive.
eclare
@Betty Cracker:
Ah…I was not a GDI.
The Audacity of Krope
More of this.
Less of this. We all know the saying, finish it for me: “If you’re explaining…”
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Crockett is winning. She’s that good.
Betty Cracker
@different-church-lady: Precisely. In another example of the protected/bound paradigm, the FBI created a task force to investigate “domestic terrorism” targeting Teslas. I hope they didn’t pull in agents who were previously working on stuff that affects regular people, like preventing mass shootings or investigating synagogue bomb threats.
stinger
@Dorothy A. Winsor: What strikes me is how much these people demand apologies and thank yous and “respect”. Felon really is a wannabe mob boss.
The Audacity of Krope
@Betty Cracker: Property > People
This is America.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Baud: That’s not the issue; the issue our base is screaming “we want a fighter! Fuck the establishment Dems” and when they get one that fights they immediately scream “not like that!” and then wonder why all the Dems are like Schumer.
Nukular Biskits
@eclare @Baud:
What @Betty Cracker said, although I have heard the “individual” variant on occasion as well.
eclare
I tried to do a gift link from the WSJ to an article about one of the FL special elections
https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/florida-special-election-house-district-f541ce08?st=Woz4n8&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink
Did it work?
gene108
@YY_Sima Qian:
There are a lot of blindly loyal pro-Israel supporters in the U.S. Some are very wealthy and well connected, therefore giving their preference for Israel over everyone else a lot of political power in the U.S.
I doubt this changes much.
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
I don’t disagree that’s an issue generally. I don’t know if anyone on our side is complaining about Crockett. The debate here is about how to interpret what she meant. But maybe there’s controversy over her comments elsewhere?
moonbat
Ask the folks ‘outraged’ by Crocket’s comment why the leader of Abbott’s party wants to do away with the ADA and then we can talk.
It’s just another example of them picking one of the Dems’ strongest communicators and demanding that Dems destroy them based on the highest standards of discourse while they wallow in worst form of hateful rhetoric/behavior imaginable. See also: But her emails.
Baud
@moonbat:
They can demand. We can say no.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I saw some tut-tutting on Bluesky, but not that much really.
The Audacity of Krope
Will we, though?
I hope we do. I hope the Crocketts of the party win out over the Newsoms and Fettermans seeking comity with bigots.
But I’m not confident in that result.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Thanks. I dislike the tendency to act like wounded victims just because the other side says mean things about us. I think it makes us look weak.
If we had the numbers and the social privilege that the Republican base has, we could play the victim all day long. But we don’t have that luxury IMHO.
tokyocali (formerly tokyo ex-pat)
@eclare: Thanks. It worked. It’s still a long shot, but it’s important to challenge everywhere we can.
Professor Bigfoot
@The Audacity of Krope: I don’t suppose I should point out the demographics involved here, should I?
That it’s a Black woman fighting back (the wrong way, of course) and the white dudes are “seeking comity with bigots.”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
The MSM audience is the left and the MSM wouldn’t be carrying the story of the audience wasn’t interested.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
I was speaking of the Crockett issue. We won’t say no to every conceivable demand because that would mean we’d always be reacting to what they say.
But I also agree with you in terms of hoping the Crocketts of the party are more prominent.
moonbat
@Baud: I don’t intend to turn a hair about it.
catclub
@Baud: yes
Baud
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
We do love stories about ourselves. But that doesn’t mean this has generated significant controversy on our side.
The Audacity of Krope
@Professor Bigfoot: Definitely had that dynamic in mind for my post, but thanks for making it explicit. You’re right. 💯
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
My redneck upbringing has a lot to do with this, but that’s why my usual response to a lot of this rightwing pearl-clutching is “Fuck you!”.
Yeah, that’s coarse and not very civil of me but many (most? all?) of the people claiming victimhood for the mean words (perceived or intentional) uttered by libruls aren’t honest brokers to begin with.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
Especially the ones in which I’m the superhero … 😉
Soprano2
@zhena gogolia: That was my first thought, too. They don’t care, to them “that’s different”.
Professor Bigfoot
@Nukular Biskits: My Southern Black upbringing put me in much the same place.
Fuck them people.
gene108
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
@Baud:
Republicans have a very powerful propaganda machine that props them up, and keeps any Republican politician that might develop a conscience in line. I think right-wing media is probably the most powerful actor in U.S. politics. They create a permission structure for their audience to continue to openly support racist, sexist, and unconstitutional actions.
Democrats need something to keep them focused on what their voters want. The lack of this is one big reason Democrats have no identity voters clearly relate to and have know idea of the good things Democrats do. It’s not about perfection but rather clearly standing for something.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone😊😊😊
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Putin is not competent.
rikyrah
Welcome back, AL.
Hope that you are feeling better🤗
Baud
@gene108:
The first step to having that is wanting that, and I’m not sure enough of us want that.
Professor Bigfoot
@rikyrah: Good morning!!
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I was speaking relatively.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Jackie
@eclare: It did! :)
schrodingers_cat
@Nukular Biskits: @Professor Bigfoot: My sanskari Indian girl background taught me the opposite but my response is still fuck you.
zhena gogolia
@YY_Sima Qian: Correct me if I’m wrong, but you are not within the US at the moment, right? I don’t know how you can pronounce on the state of our society when you’re not here. I certainly do not feel that all is lost, based on what I’m seeing around me.
The Audacity of Krope
Relative to Trump? If that’s the case, the ham sandwich in my lunch bag is supremely competent.
Professor Bigfoot
I have to disagree with this– IMHO, of course, and I’m sure someone will remind me again– the fundamental problem is that the Democrats are the party of “civil rights.”
That makes them the party of Black people, and that makes them anathema to a significant fraction of white Americans, period full stop.
zhena gogolia
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Right!
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Shorter YY, All is lost, US sucks and PRC is winning!!! Then there is Jay and Aussie Sheila who love taking frequent potshots at us.
And then there is our own cadre of purity ponies, who are like Ds suck. Biden is old. Schumer must go and I am a smart and valued commenter.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Heh. लड़ते रहो, बहन.
Soprano2
This is why so many Democrats talk like their speech is curated for a focus group. They’re trying hard not to be punched by their own side, which means they sound mealy-mouthed a lot of the time. I wish they would all start talking like normal people and always refuse to apologize. That’s one of the problems, when challenged they usually end up apologizing and groveling, and they want to avoid that. I don’t agree that it’s weak to apologize, but the average voter sure seems to think it is.
The Audacity of Krope
@schrodingers_cat: That isn’t what I’m seeing in YY’s comment at all. What I see is we need to stop coddling bigots if we intend to stop them.
That includes those bigoted against Muslims broadly and Palestinians specifically.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Yes, yes it is.
BlueGuitarist
Good morning friends!
Didn’t see any reference here this morning to the Pennsylvania state legislature victories last night. as expected, Ds regained 102-101 majority in state house, winning a Harris +16 seat by 29.
And unexpected, Democratic candidate James Malone flipping red seat, Harris -15, in PA state senate, 50-49.
Anti-musk sentiment a theme in the campaign.
Victories to celebrate and build on.
A Ghost to Most
You misspelled fascism.
Baud
@Soprano2:
I tend to agree. Most Dems get elected by meditating among various factions of the party. That affects how they communicate and react to things.
In some ways it sucks for messaging, but on the other hand, it’s better than having factions fighting with each other.
Soprano2
QFT. You said it better than I did.
Baud
@BlueGuitarist:
Saw that in the night thread. Good news.
schrodingers_cat
@BlueGuitarist: Excellent news.
Soprano2
@Nukular Biskits: Mine is mostly the same, they live to be transgressive so when they claim to be offended by something like this it’s not believable.
As for the Musk thing, to me the only response is “We have freedom of speech, I’ll say anything about Elon Musk I want. Why do you care anyway?”.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: It’s tiring.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Ooh, that’s good.
The Audacity of Krope
You’re those ones who wanted electrical cars, now you have a problem with the guy making them? Hypocrites
/DumbshitActualFauxNewsArgument
Soprano2
@Professor Bigfoot: There’s a reason Republicans want to make someone like Jasmine Crockett the “face” of the Democratic Party.
Baud
@Soprano2:
Good. I want that too.
(With the caveat that we shouldn’t have a single face).
Soprano2
I don’t think Schumer needs to go, but certainly you agree that he handled the situation around the CR poorly. He needs to learn to communicate better, and to be more strategic in his thinking. If he can’t, then someone else needs to become the spokesperson. Pelosi had some of this kind of problem, too.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Thanks.
Another Scott
@BlueGuitarist: +1
Meanwhile, WARNING TheHill.com:
We need to fight for every gettable vote, early and on election day.
Forward!!
Best wishes,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@Baud:
Ohm.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: I don’t play by the rules that the MSM has laid down for the Ds. Schumer is imperfect as are many Ds but I am not going to waste my time attacking the only thing standing between Rs and us.
YMMV.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
We should meditate more.
Mediating.
The Audacity of Krope
@Soprano2: The thing about shooting off wildly at non-specific targets is that it’s cathartic and helps express your frustration against particular arguments you are hearing while no individual actually embraces all those arguments.
So we wind up with the absurdity of someone constantly complaining about the “left” as they choose to define it while also complaining about the decision to remove a successful President who elected officials on the actual left stood behind.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: The problem is that the majority, if not the vast majority of white people will double down on their hatred of Democrats because, again, they perceive it as “the party of Black people,” and therefore reject it out of hand.
The Audacity of Krope
A measurement of electrical resistance.
The eternal sound of the universe.
gene108
@Professor Bigfoot:
That’s definitely a large part of it, but I don’t think it explains everything happening in politics right now.
I was a baby when Nixon resigned. Watergate was before my time. Yet every adult I encountered growing hated Nixon and what he did. It didn’t matter their politics.
Whatever the popular outrage was that got enough pressure to force Republican members of Congress to stop backing Nixon, and forced Nixon to resign no longer exists.
Republicans have turned this century’s politics into “us versus them”, and all sense of right and wrong be damned, if it hurts Republican’s chances for victory. Bush, Jr. and his media enablers started it by calling Iraq war protesters America haters.
I think this is one big reason I was in shock about Trump’s hard floor of support even after J6. It became all about sticking with their tribe and leader over everything else. There’s no longer any universal belief that Republicans should be bound by the rule of law or that democracy is better than authoritarianism.
There were plenty of racists in 1974, and even they got around to hating Nixon.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
Yeah. That’s ultimately what kills us in the South and rural Midwest and Western states.
Although other prejudices also are relevant in the latter group of states, I think.
Professor Bigfoot
@gene108: So, you see, white supremacy actually DOES explain everything we see today.
chemiclord
Congratulations, Republicans; you’re getting the discourse you want. You don’t get to whine about it now that everyone else is talking the way you do.
How does that saying go? Oh, right!
Fuck your feelings.
Soprano2
@The Audacity of Krope: Yep, when he was just making electric cars and not making Nazi salutes, sharing Great Replacement theory, and wilding through the government destroying everything, I didn’t have a problem with him. I didn’t change, he did.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@BlueGuitarist:
That’s good news.
It also reinforces a trend we’ve seen in recent years where Dems are getting really good at winning special/off year elections when turnout is pretty damn selective, meaning low.
Mass federal election years? It’s looking very different although that might be attributed to Hair Furor’s ability to bring a lot of voters out of the proverbial woodwork to vote for him and the spillover effect helps the rest.
Baud
@gene108:
White people in 1974 still felt the US was predominantly their country. The racists today feel an existential threat, particularly after Obama’s wins.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: Aye, but they’re still the mechanisms of white supremacy.
In the South and the Midwest, it’s Black people who are the hated ones; in the West it’s Natives and Asian folk who get shit on also, because Black people get shit on out West, too (remember Rodney King?)
The Audacity of Krope
@gene108: I think the “lesson” from Nixon, at least among elected Rs, is “stand by your man.”
So they have done that and consistently gotten away with criminality in the decades since.
Another Scott
@gene108: Tribalism has replaced sensible party politics for far too many. It’s too much like a cult on the other side.
Grr…
Best wishes,
Scott.
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
It appears that way. It helps explain the current smash and grab because they have no one to replace Trump.
The Audacity of Krope
@Soprano2: FTR, I never trusted him.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: I just want him to be a better messenger. I don’t think it would be that hard of a thing for him to do. The leader shouldn’t be changing the message from day to day, at least not like he did about the CR. “We’re going this direction”, “no wait we’re going that direction” within a day isn’t a great look.
Torrey
@The Audacity of Krope:
I’m not sure that’s the case here. Notice that she seizes upon the opportunity to “explain” by refocusing everyone’s attention to what Abbott has been doing–by reiterating, in memorable fashion, the point she was making to begin with.
She’s good. She’s very, very good.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … FederalNewsNetwork.com:
If there were a “Deep State” in the federal government (and there isn’t, but if there were) it would be the system of and around independent contractors. They’re going to be very unhappy about this turn of events.
Grr…
Best wishes,
Scott.
prostratedragon
‘Bear Dance”
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot:
Right. I was excluding the far Western coast they’ve been solidly blue for a while now, and not particularly rural.
Trivia Man
@Professor Bigfoot: Tone Police never sleep.
Soprano2
@Baud: I do think a significant amount of what’s happening now can be explained by white people trying to stave off the inevitable demographic change that they can see is coming. They want to cement their place at the top of things before the change happens. It’s one of the things driving the anti-immigrant sentiment.
The Audacity of Krope
@Soprano2: Fackin’ white people…
That’s someone else, by the way. I’m not white. I’m Lithuanian and Irish…😏
Bruce K in ATH-GR
Since it’s an open thread, something occurs to me about the Signal fiasco. That’s headed into Espionage Act territory, right? And the couch molester in the VP’s office is up to his neck in it, and that’s got to be an impeachable offense.
So if we can take the House and the Senate and get enough Senate Republicans less scared of Trump than they are of the consequences of their actions, there’s an outside chance of ousting the fascists that way (given the long list of impeachable offenses the First Felon and his minions have committed in his first two months in office).
I can’t be the first to have thought of this.
Layer8Problem
@Elizabelle: Democrats are starting to amp up their resistance game.
Soprano2
@The Audacity of Krope: I never thought about him much except for what I read at Atrio’s place. I’ve always though self-driving cars were a lot further away than the tech bros do.
Trivia Man
@Soprano2: Al Franken should not have given in.
brantl
Abbott’s also paralyzed from the neck up. It explains a lot.
Quiltingfool
@The Thin Black Duke:
Hit dogs holler.
Or, don’t start none, won’t be none.
I have zero problem with Rep Crockett calling Abbott “Hot Wheels.” If I were in a wheelchair, I’d call him hot wheels too. He isn’t exactly the poster boy for advocating for disabled Americans.
The Audacity of Krope
@Soprano2: Doesn’t help he first came to my attention for flouting safety regulations and claiming genius for owning a company while not having developed the technology the company produces and refusing to listen to his engineers in public-facing meetings.
Soprano2
@Trivia Man: I agree with that, he should have insisted on due process. I noticed that the minute he resigned, no more “revelations” came out, and the whole thing mostly disappeared. It was a bad lesson for people to learn, that sketchy accusations could drive someone from office pretty easily.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: I have to keep explaining this to my husband over and over.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: I agree with that. But I am focusing my ire on those who deserve it more. The Republicans for enabling a felon who is destroying our brand and jeopardising our country. The media for aiding and abetting it.
The Audacity of Krope
Sure sounds like a husband…
gene108
@Professor Bigfoot:
If it’s white supremacy over everything else, this country is totally fucked from now until eternity. There’s no reasoning with white grievance and supremacy, and white people are the majority. We can only slow the descent to shithole country status, but never stop it.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Baud: There are many white people who are not overt racists but refuse to acknowledge the part white privilege pays in our society. They refuse to acknowledge it even to themselves.
Trivia Man
@Soprano2: It reminds me of Animal Farm. It is made VERY CLEAR what is right or wrong and HOW WE SHOULD ACT. Until its inconvenient for THE PIGS, then a quiet whisper campaign, focused like a laser in the desired outcome, introduces doubt and dulls the certainty required to stay strong.
2 legs bad! Until it isnt.
zhena gogolia
@gene108: Well, here’s where I’ll say “not all white people.” We have to keep increasing the number of white people who aren’t addicted to white supremacy.
Another Scott
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: The imperfect analogies to Venezuela (discussed some downstairs) and Chile (discussed by Teri Kanefield) convince me that we have to tread carefully.
E.g. if 47 invades Canada or Greenland or Panama and it turns into a fiasco (as it almost certainly would) and there’s widespread support in the hoi polloi (not just liberal Democrats, but also independents and even more than a handful of Republicans), then by all means impeach them both and start over. Success would be a great thing, if it’s broadly supported.
However, if we can’t get a critical mass of the country on board (e.g. Nixon-level disapproval), then it’s dangerous to try to throw them out before an election. It can and almost certainly would backfire.
We have to look more than one step ahead. The best path, at the moment, is winning elections and voting the monsters out.
Thanks.
My $0.02.
Best wishes,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: May their tribe increase.
The Audacity of Krope
@zhena gogolia: I really think identifying as white is a big part of the problem. There is no white culture, no white nation, no white language.
“White” asks its own people to deny their heritage and stole the heritage of others. It is nothing aspirational. It is a tool of power.
Trivia Man
@Another Scott: has the R been made to go on the record FOR/ AGAINST Walz and his Signal chat? If that is his seat, it should hit home with the undecided or squishy Republican voters.
Anyway
@schrodingers_cat: Meh – I say yeah for those posters – otherwise the echo chamber this place would be would make it bo-ring. Plus the pearl clutching every time someone makes the smallest criticism of the D party is beyond tiring —
YY, Jay, Aussie Sheila – rock on w’ your bad selfs
Scout211
Jeffrey Goldberg released the signal chat today.
Here Are the Attack Plans That Trump’s Advisers Shared on Signal
Sorry, it’s not up yet on web archive, so it’s paywalled if you haven’t already used your monthly free article. It’s a long article with screen shots so it’s hard to excerpt. Hopefully it will be up on web archive later today.
Here is a snippet.
DougL
@gene108:
This is the key point we need to reckon with imho. We are being swamped by the most powerful, in depth, and far reaching propaganda machine in human history and most of us ignore this reality to focus on Dem messaging, etc. The only solution to our current political and social dysfunction is to overcome and destroy this machine. I don’t have great insight on how to do this, but I do know we’re never going to solve any of our problems until we figure this out. It is THE priority problem. IMHO.
Nukular Biskits
@Baud:
While the GOP was already on the trajectory to fascism with the election of Reagan and the “Southern Strategy”, the election of Obama hyper-accelerated that, IMHO.
I’m not the first to opine this but having a black man as POTUS abso-fucking-lutely broke the minds of a lot of white people in this country.
Trivia Man
@The Audacity of Krope: and screaming Liberal Press!!! 29 times a day for 40 years. Working the refs is a shrewd strategy and it paid iff big time. Nixon was condemned by 100% of the major media. Or at least nit vigorously defended. The answer wasnt to be less evil, the answer was Fox “news” so it would never be 100% ever again.
Booger
Abbott is in a wheelchair because a tree limb fell on him while he was jogging. He received a huge insurance settlement, then when he ascended to power, closed off that same tort to those who followed him in misfortune. He is a special kind of vile.
Belafon
@The Audacity of Krope: It’s what a lot of people refer to him as here in Texas now. It’s spread everywhere, and most everyone I know knows that it means his wheelchair, but that’s all it means. There’s no “he’s mentally challenged” meaning behind it. It’s calling someone Lefty because they’re left handed.
What really annoys people is all the work he’s done to prevent other people who were injured like he was to be able to be compensated the way he was.
Trivia Man
@Another Scott: unfortunately the biggest crooks will be the quickest to pay the bribes and kiss the ring. Legit contractors get forced out.
The Audacity of Krope
This. And people believe it, despite the evidence of their eyes and ears.
billcoop4
As with so much, you are soooo correct.
I’ve long wanted Abbott to experience a reverse Sisyphus moment.
BC
siddhartha
Please goddess, let the response this time not be the premise granting, “of course any kind of ableism is inexcusable but the larger point is the American people…..” Please let it be: “oh now we’re worried about the differently abled? Really? Where was all that ….? And y’all want to talk about sensitivity? Ulvade, Ulvade, Ulvade…. You don’t get to play victim now. You set the rules.” And use the “you.”
We can have the conversation about Crockett’s words amongst ourselves, because that will be a good faith conversation between folks who are committed to heterogenous perspectives and forms of human flourishing. STOP acting like bad faith actors have a point.
To presume good faith on the part of demonstrably (good god) bad actors is not reasonableness, it’s white flight. The stakes are too high. We don’t get to play pretend reasonableness as though we are in the agora engaging in leisurely dialogue while slaves and women do all the work. Even those folks condemned Socrates to death.
Crockett is a black woman. Everyone needs to get behind her (and all others like her) without ANY equivocation to self-position as “reasonable” or “moderate” for phantom swing and/or disaffected R votes. That’s not the game being played.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: Honestly I’m shocked when people say they can’t see it. To me it’s extremely obvious that being white-skinned conveys all kinds of advantages in our society. The way I explain it to dubious people is that if you’re white you get to be seen as an individual, and you get the benefit of the doubt for whatever you do and say. You aren’t seen as a representative of the whole group, and you aren’t automatically branded as being a certain way just because of one thing you said or did. I think this is why white men get so mad at the idea of “toxic masculinity”, because they don’t like being branded as one thing based on being male. They don’t mind doing that to everyone else, though.
Quiltingfool
@Professor Bigfoot:
Umm hmm.
Comity has its place and time. Now is not the time.
A line from “The Man in the High Castle;” “I’m Irish. We know a thing or two about raising Hell.”
Representative Crockett is raising hell. She isn’t worrying about keeping her day job like many Democratic politicians.
If she was my district Representative, I’d be over the moon.
glory b
@Baud: And somehow manages to never trash another Democrat, or her own party, while being effective.
She should give lessons.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Goddamned Independent
Professor Bigfoot
@gene108: Yep.
America has only attempted to be a multi-racial democracy after CRA 64 and VRA 65; and white people have fought back against that magnificently.
Nearly 2/3 of white men, 53% of white women; and they’ve been doubly aggrieved since 2008.
I don’t know what to tell you— it’s a white people problem that most white people refuse to see or acknowledge.
schrodingers_cat
@Soprano2: I don’t know if they can’t see it, its more like they don’t want to see it. Introspection and questioning your own beliefs is hard.
Trivia Man
@schrodingers_cat: I was chatting with a firmer coworker this week, we were discussing retirement planning. I mentioned how grateful i am fir accidentally stumbling into a decent career and having moderate success.
I have skills but i recognize luck played a huge part. Then i said, “being a tall white man didnt hurt.” Her response was “depends on the times. LOL”
I as shocked. As a woman in the same field she KNOWS how male dominated it is. Her implication is that white men USED to have it easy but now suffer from reverse discrimination. I guarantee she got fewer promotions because of gender than promotions she got because of gender. But still accepts as fact that men have to work harder to succeed.
The Audacity of Krope
@Professor Bigfoot: ATTN: Baud. You once posted a clip prompted by my suggestion that white people should reject whiteness.
It was entertaining and I want to share it, like beyond here. Forgot the name of the movie, can you help me out with a repost?
tam1MI
It did happen in our modern times. Look up the accounts of the Tyson Chicken factory fire were workers will killed because the only available door not blocked by the flames had a dumpster wedged in front of it.
schrodingers_cat
This.
Nukular Biskits
@Trivia Man:
Most of my coworkers, my age and older, are definitely not firmer. The young’uns in the office, though, are.
apocalipstick
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Has ‘our base’ said that or have Dem consultants and GOP shills said that?
Quiltingfool
@Nukular Biskits:
Being I’m a female redneck, my more *ladylike* (snort) retort is “Well, you can get glad in the same pants you got mad in.” Meaning I don’t give a shit what you think.
Trivia Man
@The Audacity of Krope: worst of all, the press worked overtime to prove them wrong.
Anyway
She’s wonderful!
The Audacity of Krope
@Trivia Man: Yet, the narrative persists.
Trivia Man
@Nukular Biskits: phone typing is hard
(but not firm)
glory b
@schrodingers_cat: It is, also because that state senate seat had been held by Republicans for 46 years.
The last statewide Dems who won there were LBJ and Bob Casey senior, when he ran for governor.
Nukular Biskits
@Quiltingfool:
No, “Well, bless your heart!” spoken with saccharin sweetness?
Nukular Biskits
@Trivia Man:
LOL. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Professor Bigfoot
@Nukular Biskits: Including a LOT of white people ostensibly on “our side,” too.
”There is no horseshoe. There is only white people who are at best uncomfortable with any power being held in Black hands. Those white people are at all points of the ‘left-right’ spectrum.”
Geminid
@Scout211: There’s some security camera video from Sanaa, Yemen that is circulating on the internet. It’s from a shop and shows the shopkeeper sitting behind the counter. A bright light flies by the window and soon after this big explosion in the distance lights up the sky.
The shopkeeper doesn’t move, just glances out the window. People were remarking on how calm and collected he was and then some wag said, “He knew it was coming; Cousin Ali was in on the Signal chat and gave him a heads up.”
schrodingers_cat
@glory b: Then its even better!
Bupalos
I’m going to object to the title on this one, because Jasmine Crockett actually IS one of our versions of populism. Populism itself isn’t really good or bad, it more or less just means communicating and governing in a way that is more accessible to everyday people, and makes sense to them. It has a lower common denominator and there are profound dangers with that, but it’s essentially value neutral and there are times even the most responsible political party needs to use it. Namely now. It shows up most when the government is least accessible and comprehensible..
Is she pulling a Trump to generate some attention with the “hot wheels” thing? Because that feels exactly like one of his formulations and defenses. I kinda think she is, and I think it’s pretty impressive if so.
schrodingers_cat
@Professor Bigfoot: It is easier to blame the oligarchy and billionaires rather than introspect.
YY_Sima Qian
@zhena gogolia: I do not believe all is lost. I think the MAGA reactionaries are digging their own graves w/ the assault on everything everywhere at the same time, & doing so w/ zero Machiavellian competence. My fear of authoritarianism becoming entrenched in the US is actually lower now (albeit still high) than going into the Trump 47 term, because of all the things the reactionaries are doing. They are certainly not trying to boil the frog (yes, that expression is actually not scientifically correct).
However, reactionary Blitzkrieg also means the road out of this darkness will be long & painful, & the recovery long & tortuous.
Quiltingfool
I’m trying to read all the comments here, but the cat keeps demanding my attention.
Whoever said cats are aloof creatures did not own a cat.
Soprano2
@schrodingers_cat: The reason I explain it the way I do is that most people think of “money” and “privilege” as the same thing, when it’s not. They’ll say “I don’t have money, why do Democrats think I have privilege?” That’s one reason they can’t see it, plus I agree that a lot of them just don’t want to see or acknowledge it.
rikyrah
From NASA AND IBM to cattle rancher https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP82s9KdK/
Betty Cracker
@YY_Sima Qian: The incompetence and the overt nature of the fascist takeover give me hope as well. If someone like Vought were allowed to work quietly behind the scenes, our odds of pulling out of this tailspin would be longer, I think.
Belafon
@Professor Bigfoot: And the problem with us white people that have no problem with blacks/Latinos/Asians/Gays/Trans in power is that we’d much rather be reading or playing an instrument or doing carpentry or whatever else (which is why we don’t have trouble with others being in power) but we’ve got to do more to keep the belligerent part of our group in check.
JaneE
If the numbers in that tweet are accurate, Abbott spend $1500 a person to bus immigrants. He could have flown them on the cattle-car cheap flights for far less. Hot Wheels indeed. Does he own a bus company?
YY_Sima Qian
@schrodingers_cat: My point is that the world is not stopping to wait for the US to put itself back together. Even if the Dems regain power the world will have changed, & how the US relates to the world will need to change.
There is also a 2nd “China Shock” upon us, this time much more challenging to the developed world, especially the US. The 1st “China Shock” actually affected the developing world more, by delaying their industrialization efforts, while provided low cost manufactured goods to the developed world consumers to help them maintain living standards despite stagnant wages. The 2nd “China Shock” will threaten the global market shares & fat margins of Western incumbent MNCs, while giving the developing world low priced inputs & capital goods to facilitate their industrialization.
The MAGA reactionaries are doing nothing to make the US to better withstand this 2nd “China Shock”, & doing nothing to allow the US to better benefit from the shock. The effects of the shock will be felt by Americans, nonetheless, including the white collar workers currently making good living working in biotech.
& the reason there is such a thing as “China Shock” is because Americans have not paid attention to the happenings in China & the ROW.
Gretchen
@Professor Bigfoot: I agree
Deputinize America
@Quiltingfool:
I love her to death. Woman has some fight to her – of course, I’m half Lebanese with a Greek-root name from a family famous for holding on to long grudges (dad hasn’t talked to his sister or her husband for over 20 years, had cut off contact with Granny for the five years before she died and Granny had a falling out with my great aunts for 30 years even though they stood 40 feet away from each other every time they went to our VERY ethnic orthodox church). On the maternal side, I’m central Kentucky trailer trash with roots so deep that a two name cousin shot up the picnic spread at a family reunion with a shotgun because he was aggrieved.
schrodingers_cat
@YY_Sima Qian: Yeah our fate was sealed when Biden withdrew. I had and have full faith in Kamala Harris’s abilities was not sanguine about KH’s chances against Trump
Future is not written, we have the ability to affect it. But yes it will be difficult to get out of this ditch.
Bupalos
@Torrey: exactly this.
Crockett is employing some higher payload weapons here, dropping some of the niceties Dems have been bound by, and taking a page from the right wing populists’ book.
To be clear my assumption is that “hot wheels” was in fact a reference to the wheelchair and that she’s using the attention and space gained thereby to tell an only semi-plausible lie she doesn’t really expect you to believe, coupled with a kind of extension of the attack. I don’t love the way she extended that attack, but she’s definitely playing total war here.
can anyone imagine a politician getting her message out more effectively than she has done here? I’ll leave aside that the message which sidles right up to “attacking black people by burdening their communities with immigrants” is a bit troublesome. Total war ain’t pretty.
UncleEbeneezer
Friendly reminder that Hamas actively sought out peace activists to kill and take hostage on 10/7. Shaked Haran lost three family members in the Hamas attack on Kibbutz Be’eri, including her beloved father Avshalom, or Avshal. Seven more family members, including sister Adi, brother-in-law Tal, three-year-old niece Yahel, eight-year-old nephew Naveh, and 12-year-old cousin Noam, were dragged into Gaza as hostages. Her sister Adi, had attended a conference aimed at finding a peaceful solution to the I/P conflict just days before 10/7. Hamas had a list of attendees of that event, including her name, when they took her hostage. It was a clear cut example of the way Hamas routinely targets, harasses and kills anyone who advocates for peace.
In this interview with Haviv Retig Gur, Shaked also recounts that Hamas point-blank admitted to her sister “It’s not ’48 borders, it’s not ’67 borders, it’s EVERYTHING that we want!” Hamas’ goal is perpetual war in order to destroy Israel and to force every Jew to flee or die. Their goal has always been genocide, plain and simple. The October 7 massacre and hostage-taking was just the latest step in their long-term goal of knee-capping any peace process in order to keep their dream of Jihad/genocide alive.
Meanwhile, thousands of Palestinians in Gaza are entering their second day of protesting Hamas and demanding freedom from their Islamist terrorism and tyranny. And I’ve seen absolutely nothing from Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Cori Bush, Linda Sarsour, CUAD, SJP, Uncommitted etc.
Not a word of support for THESE Palestinian people who are literally risking their lives to protest Hamas, from the people who assured us that. Once again, whenever the focus is on Hamas, not Israel/Zionists, they suddenly lose all interest in the freedom of the Palestinian people.
tam1MI
And, on the flip side of that, we didn’t stand by our man and look how that worked out.
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
I think it helps when we apologize when an apology is unquestionably called for, if we don’t also fall all over ourselves apologizing for stuff like this as well.
I mean, right now FFOTUS & Co. are clearly targeting programs aimed at enabling disabled people to be productive members of society. Democrats strongly support these programs, but Republicans have decided they want to get rid of them.
If their outrage over Rep. Crockett’s remarks was anything other than performative, they’d be upset with what their own party wants to do to those programs. But they don’t give a flying fuck about disabled people, they know it, and they’re busily proving it. So we should be telling them to STFU until they change their ways.
Captain C
@zhena gogolia: He is, however, more competent* than TCFG or Yeltsin, which is admittedly an extremely low bar.
*May not apply after February 24, 2022
rebelsdad
Empress Jasmine ate and left no crumbs. As usual.
Quiltingfool
@Nukular Biskits:
Oh man, did it ever. One family member was afraid that “Obama will get back at white people.” I heard about that second hand, and it seemed to me like the family member knew how awful white people treated black people, but white people should never be held to account. That was confirmation for me that many white people, deep down, think they are superior to black people. Only skin color matters to them. No matter how many positive attributes a black person may have, it means nothing to these people.
There was a black lady I followed on Twitter who once stated: “White people ought to be grateful Black folks want equity, not retribution.” (paraphrased). White people have exacted retribution on black people for no goddamned reason at all. Well, probably because they can’t stand a black person being better than a white person.
JML
I like Crockett a lot, but what we see here is just how much the field is tilted against the Democrats from an institutional standpoint (and women and racial minorities have it tilted even further of course). Cross a made-up line once and watch how fast the media will turn on someone. The media knows there’s never any consequences for beating up on a democrat, and there are obvious and open consequences for speaking ill of the Current Occupant and his cronies.
I love how Crockett is punching back, but it’s a narrow line to walk before the scum crawl out of the woodwork to use tearing her down to be how they pull themselves up. It’s been the path to stardom for right-wing sh!tbirds for 35 years, so it’s not going to change now. And again: never any consequences for the right wing. And since democrats eating their own has always been a cottage industry (nothing makes some on the left feel better than acting superior to someone else on the left)…
But we have to get the message through. If that means we’re a little less worried about crossing a line and a lot more worried about punching back at these evil bastards at every opportunity…maybe that’s what we need right now.
The Audacity of Krope
@Belafon: I’m starting to think there needs to be more general effort to integrate friend groups. Yes, white people have a lot of work to do to end white supremacy and the biggest burden, but they aren’t going to do that in homogenous white environments.
As a gay man, I’ve become increasingly skeptical of the utility of having allies fight our fights for us. This has been very explicitly because of ally interventions in my own life.
Sorry, even the best intentioned majority-group ally to one’s cause will often have a tendency to go overboard. I’ve had people I’ve only known in passing go after actual friends for “homophobic” comments, including my gay friends.
And I won’t sit and pretend these were the most enlightened comments. But these were the exact kind of overblown reactions that the anti-woke crowd has been complaining about my whole life.
I think the issue is even though they agree with equality in principle, that authoritarian streak remains. Then it becomes a fight about whose authority is supreme, the bigot or inclusive person.
People not used to dealing with bigotry personally don’t know how to measure their responses. The only answer I see is if you have a friend group who looks too much the same, work to change that, because that’s how genuine understanding comes about instead of heated recriminations.
Geminid
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Rick Crawford (R-AR) managed to schedule the “Annual Worldwide Threat Assessment” hearing fortuitously. It’s today at 10 a.m. and DNI Tulsi Gabbard, and CIA Director John Ratcliffe will testify; also FBI Director Kash Patel, NSA chief Gen. Timothy Haugh and the Defense Intelligence Agency head.
Besides Crawford, Republican members include Dan Crenshaw and Ronnie Jackson of Texas, Ben Cline (VA), Brian Fitzpatrick (PA) and half a dozen others.
The Democrats on the panel are: Ranking Member Jim Himes (CT), Andre Carson (IN), Raja Krishnamoorthi (IL), Jason Crow (CO), Stacey Plaskett (Virgin Islands), Ami Bere (CA), Josh Gottheimer (NJ), Jimmy Gomez (CA), Chrissy Houlahan (PA) and Mike Quigley (IL).
The committee’s press release says the hearing will be streamed live on YouTube. It is should be underway now.
UncleEbeneezer
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Mass Federal election years also bring a shit-ton of attempts to fuel voter apathy by constant Dem-bashing from not just Republicans, the Media, Russia, Musk etc., but also the Progressive Left. It’s becoming a sad tradition in every high stakes election.
Bupalos
@Quiltingfool: the marginal difference in recent elections is Dems losing people of color from their coalition. I can’t think of a more dire case of fighting yesterday’s war than the ongoing fixation with ethnic identity as the primary driver of current American politics. Ethnically homogenous party identification was HIGHER prior to Obama and by the numbers Romney or Bush I was more the candidate of the whites than Trump is.
glory b
@Anyway: I like my politics boring.
If you find the discussion so tiring, look elsewhere when it becomes so, just like I do.
Aussie Sheila couched her criticism in a way that was dismissive of black voters, so…
Old Man Shadow
Don’t really give a fuck about the reich-wing moans and faux tears.
Even assuming she was attacking Abbott’s disability, which I won’t, but if she was, the facts of the matter are that they haven’t given ‘fuck all’ about the chronically ill or disabled and have been very busy destroying the agencies and programs that help protect the disabled and calling it “waste”.
Fuck off. You reek of malice and spite and now want to hide behind civility and tone? Fuck you.
The Audacity of Krope
That’s why politeness is a weapon of the privileged and mutual respect is a better paradigm.
rebelsdad
@YY_Sima Qian: If we are destined to descend into authoritarianism (is that the natural end stage of democratic evolution? The jury is still out) then I’d much rather live under a PRC or Vietnam model than Putinism or worse.
MazeDancer
Having listened to the Hegseth War Plans being read outloud twice, my response at each “F-16” type mention was, and continues to be, Oh My God. Over and over.
Captain C
@Another Scott:
That seems REALLY low, dangerously low for a campaign which would like to be viable, even in a district where it should have a double digit advantage.
schrodingers_cat
@glory b: Yeah. I was able to sleep at night when Sleepy Joe was at the helm.
The Audacity of Krope
@Bupalos: To be clear, Trump and the Republicans appeal to toxic people of all colors, creeds, gender identities, and sexualities. Nevertheless, non-white Republican voters are still supporting white supremacy.
Belafon
@Bupalos: Race is still the big driver, but whiny male fragility is what Trump is also great at appealing to. And then he rounds them up and sends them to El Salvador.
chemiclord
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Well, I’d argue it’s two different groups of people.
One group wants to fight; rhetorically and to an increasing extent literally. They have internalized “Fuck Your Feelings” and have decided that the way forward is to behave like Republicans. You don’t try to reason with Nazis. You punch them in the mouth.
The other group still embraces the idea of “When they go low, we go high,” and doesn’t see joining Republicans in the mud to be a winning move. They understand being the “adult in the room” doesn’t stir much passion, but also accept that the instant we reject norms, we’ve done the GOPs work for them.
The problem is that those two groups are equal enough in size that neither can particularly impose their will on the rest of the caucus, and that is causing a LOT of strain.
Quiltingfool
@Deputinize America: Are you sure we aren’t related? lol!
My ancestry is mostly Irish and Scottish. Whew, my paternal side can hold a grudge until Hell freezes over and beyond. Grudges are expressed with cold silences punctuated by extreme sarcasm.
Maternal side, Irish heritage. They’ll talk you to death. You give up and slink away because they just wore you out. It is entertaining and you do learn lots of strange insults.
”Drunk as a boiled owl” was one of my maternal grandpa’s sayings. I never got that one. He was raised in NW Arkansas, so…
cmorenc
@gene108: single-issue voters as a block usually are able to exert influence on electoral outcomes that is significantly disproportionate to their actual percentage of the vote, because the cumulative curve of how the mix of multiple factors influencing other voters’ decisions produces a much wider, less focused net cumulative result in how their votes fall. If they bother to vote at all.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
Not sure if this is it.
https://youtu.be/UnKo6xNW1Ig?si=KVnsvHYgNzztW2Td
rebelsdad
@pluky: I thought she pledged Kappa Kappa Kappa…?
The Audacity of Krope
@chemiclord: Why either/or?
Perhaps a little discernment regarding when to jump in the mud and when to stay clean will go a long way.
Geminid
@YY_Sima Qian: You asked me the other day about what Turkish President Edogan was thinking when he arrested Istanbul Mayor Erkim Imamoglu and cracked down on other opposition members on Turkiye-based journalists.
Middle East Eye posted an opinion piece by Ragip Soylu, their Istanbul bureau chief, on March 24 where he gives his analysis. The title is, “What is Erdogan’s end game with Imamoglu’s arrest?”
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: Different clip, same set. Thank you. I intend to find the actual movie and watch it.
The clip I recall included a white woman and her two white children giving a book report to, presumably, the head of the movement. Included a reading of Abraham Lincoln’s actions considering his political incentives that was a tad…radical…though not wrong.
YY_Sima Qian
@rebelsdad: Hard authoritarianism is very entrenched in the PRC & Vietnam, soft authoritarianism is deeply entrenched in Singapore. Can’t let the US get to that point.
Both the PRC & Vietnam have fairly homogenous societies, & yet the regimes in both countries are not shy about targeting perceived challenges to their power, especially among marginalized minorities. Singapore is more diverse, whose founding father Lee Kuang-Yew had the foresight to realize Han Chinese supremacy spelled doom for the fledgling city-state. The MAGA reactionaries have come to the opposite conclusion, in an increasing diverse America. It will be extremely ugly, & at a high scale.
Professor Bigfoot
@glory b: THANK YOU.
Exactly this— is it too goddamn much to ask that people not pile on Democrats for every goddamn thing when the Republicans are criminals?
(I expect to get to the point of “of course I would vote for a Black woman, just not that Black woman” stage of discourse at any moment)
Trivia Man
@Soprano2: I use the framing of “life on hard mode” for those without privilege. “Regular” mode doesnt mean guaranteed win, but it is easier than hard mode.
Omnes Omnibus
@chemiclord: Different situations call for different responses. Some people are better at one than the other. The challenge is to determine which is called for at any given moment and then let the right people take the lead.
Belafon
@The Audacity of Krope: Agree. I would have to have actual friend groups in real life to need to have a better mix of friends, so that’s an issue for me. Though I will say that, living as a white person in one of the few mixed neighborhoods in my city, I would prefer when I sell my house and move to find a similar neighborhood. I mostly do the “Hi, how are you?” with my neighbors, but I already see enough white people when I’m combing my hair in the morning.
Geminid
@The Audacity of Krope: I’m beginning to wonder if the universal of the universe is a low, gutteral “Duhhh…”
YY_Sima Qian
@Geminid: Thanks, read it this morning (my time). It was clarifying. (Link below for those interested).
Also glad that Ragip Soylu took an unequivocal stand here.
I understand the reasoning of the article, but Erdoğan’s actions will further polarize Turkish society & polity, & its effects will last more than 3 years.
BTW, I thought Erdoğan had said that he would not seek reelection in 2028?
Professor Bigfoot
@Quiltingfool: Reminds me of my mom’s retort: “You mad? You better scratch yo’ ass and get glad, ‘cause…” words to the effect of “I pay you no more mind.”
The Audacity of Krope
Only where life emerges.
Belafon
@Belafon: I love my neighborhood, btw. I have left powertools in the front yard by accident and have found them in the same place days later, and they are clearly visible to people who are casually observant. I just don’t need my big house anymore and, well, Texas.
Captain C
@gene108:
I think it goes back to at least Newtie’s list of awful things to call Democrats and his ‘we aren’t dealing with them at all’ mentality.
Professor Bigfoot
@Belafon: It’s one hell of a job, bro; and I appreciate those of you who are up to it.
Gretchen
@Quiltingfool: how do I find your Etsy store?
Geminid
@glory b: Regarding this alleged pearl clutching: I feel like people here make substantive arguments when they see critcism of Democrats that is exaggerated, manipulative or otherwise unmerited. That’s not “pearl clutching,” that’s pushback.
The Audacity of Krope
@Gretchen: Walk into Etsy and there should be a floor plan by the escalator on each level.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gretchen: Click on her ‘nym.
Ksmiami
@YY_Sima Qian: I look forward to MAGA dangling from the gallows. And no I don’t have any empathy for the cretinous asshats.
Old School
@The Audacity of Krope:
Same clip. Go to 2:30 into the video.
The Audacity of Krope
@Ksmiami: I prefer gallows humor to literal gallows, but if necessary…
@Old School: Gotcha Gotcha.
Spanx.Thanx.Soprano2
@Geminid: ROFLMAO!!!!
Old Man Shadow
@Geminid: If we average out the intelligence of creatures within the universe by the number of likely planets in the universe, the number will be so close to zero, it might as well be zero.
Eural Joiner
@The Audacity of Krope: You nailed it x100!
Professor Bigfoot
@YY_Sima Qian:
I see this also.
My first visit to China was in 2010; my last in 2017.
The difference, everywhere, in that time was obvious to me. I watched back then as a US educated PhD in polymer science became the chief technical officer of a major tire company and how (a) that man was an absolute frickin’ wizard, and was much respected by my boss who was also a PhD wizard, and (b) how much his colleagues and juniors soaked up from him.
Nevermind how the company I worked for could throw up entire factories in what seemed like minutes.
Nor the various engineers I worked with— yeah, if the Americans WANT to abdicate their place in the worlds of science and technology and engineering, of fucking course SOMEONE is going to step up.
No, I don’t see this as “America is doomed,” (and I know you don’t) but exactly as you say, the world America eventually comes back to will be a very different one than the one we left.
And it’s ENTIRELY self-inflicted.
Melancholy Jaques
@The Audacity of Krope:
No, but she gets the benefit of the doubt, plus a few passes from time to time.
jonas
This. But for a lot of people it was also just the fact that they were so blitheringly ignorant of any news or current events that they frankly didn’t even *know* about 90% of the shit Trump did and/or was charged with. Ask if they recognize the name E. Jean Carroll and they’ll just give you a blank stare. If whatever TikTok influencer they follow didn’t mention it, it doesn’t exist. But eggs cost a lot.
Captain C
@Quiltingfool:
FTFY
PatD
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: As with most internet outrage, it’s actually a small fringe of a minority that acts this way. Bluesky, for example, has a small number of very sensitive people just looking to whine about some throwaway comment or can’t take a joke because they feel their entire community is being thrown under the bus.
satby
@glory b: Aussie Sheila also has no real understanding of how our system of government or politics in this country works. She shows up just to tell us all how we’re doing everything wrong. And, like all trolly behaving people, comes back after being corrected to say the same erroneous stuff again. The bigotry is just a lagniappe.
Professor Bigfoot
You’re right, that makes no sense at all… but somehow it makes perfect sense. (drops into personal lexicon box)
Professor Bigfoot
@Trivia Man: The Scalzi Analogy, I call it.
PatD
@UncleEbeneezer: What a weird and slanderous comment. Since no one responded to it, I’ll take the bait. Stop implying that people you disagree with on some issues are Hamas supporters. Thats what you’re doing here but you’re not very clever about it. I’d challenge you to find public comment from some of the elected officials you slander here that praise Hamas at the expense of Palestinians who oppose Hamas and want peace.
Harrison Wesley
@Quiltingfool: An owl fell in the still while it was making moonshine?
Omnes Omnibus
@PatD: Cool! I don’t remember ever seeing an accusation of defamation here before.* What a time to be alive.
*Well, not a serious one.
Miss Bianca
@Belafon: True, dat. I remember reading somewhere (maybe on this yere blog) something to the effect of, “Activists have passion. Normies have lives.”
@tam1MI: Yep, no lie told there, either.
schrodingers_cat
Oh look a progressive better has parachuted into the comments to impart wisdom.
Quiltingfool
@Gretchen: Click on my nym! A former customer just bought 5 quilts, so my stock is a bit low. I take commissions, so if you aren’t in a big hurry, you can get a quilt in the color and style you like.
My Pinterest page has quilts I’ve made, but if you see a quilt you like from other places and send me a pic, I can tell you if I can replicate it.
Pinterest link:
https://pin.it/1AETGtAbh
YY_Sima Qian
@Professor Bigfoot: The “2nd China Shock” would have been very challenging for the US even if Harris was elected President, & I’ve been extremely critical of how the Biden Administration chose to meet that challenge (among other FP choices). However, what the MAGA reactionaries are doing is just abdicating the position & conceding the competition in substance, while being far more boastful & aggressive in rhetoric. Strong NGMI vibes. Which is sad given how well endowed (or rather, seized) the US is & how much advantage it had accumulated. The US will recover (as long as it does not fracture), but…
I was just hosting a few visiting US colleagues. We all share the utter disbelief at what is happening Stateside. Yet, we are all carrying on in work as if none of that is happening, evening thought everything that is happening will impact our business & our lives one way or another, directly or indirectly. So, in every con call & meeting there is a sense of unreality in the backs of our minds, like if we the Wiley Coyotes who have run past the edge of the cliff, but yet to realize it & thus yet to fall.
Our region of Upstate NY also strongly favored Trumps in 2024, especially outside of the towns where the white collar workers tend to concentrate, so one figures that there are plenty of MAGA supporters among the seemingly congenial blue collar workforce.
PatD
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t know. It just rubbed me the wrong way. I don’t even particular care about the targets but seems low to imply that people who criticize US policy in Gaza are Hamas supporters. You can’t say that and then at the same time criticize the Trump admin for wanting to deport students for the wrong beliefs.
schrodingers_cat
@satby: You are describing a majority of social media tankie shitposters.
Quiltingfool
@Harrison Wesley: Hmm, maybe that’s it! Grandpa didn’t make shine himself (he wasn’t a drinker) but I think he knew how to make it, and there were family members who had to skeddaddle to Oklahoma because the law was about to get them.
The Audacity of Krope
@schrodingers_cat: Hey, look, SC is name-calling someone she disagrees with. Typical.
Omnes Omnibus
Sure you can.
schrodingers_cat
@The Audacity of Krope: Don’t you have something better to do rather than stalk me in the comments.
The Audacity of Krope
@schrodingers_cat: If I were stalking you, this would be every thread. That’s OK. I know you’re fond of outlandish, unfounded accusations.
UncleEbeneezer
@PatD: I never said they are Hamas supporters. I noted that the minute Palestinian voices start criticizing Hamas and not just Israel/Zionists, these people suddenly stop amplifying Palestinian voices. And to me, that illustrates just how selective and opportunistic they are in their pro-Palestine advocacy. It is not unreasonable to expect everyone to oppose/denounce Hamas and to give major side eye to anyone who won’t. Just like opposing Nazis and the KKK is not some unreasonable expectation. Anyone who bends over backwards not to criticize Nazis and Klansmen gets the moral judgement and scorn that they rightly deserve. That really should be the case for Hamas as well. THEY made their whole identities around being champions of the Palestinian people. So where they at now? Sorry, but their complete silence right now speaks fucking volumes.
tam1MI
Sure you can. If someone says that in their opinion Hamas is correct in the ideology they push, that makes that person vile and disgusting and no decent person should associate with them. What it doesn’t make them is a criminal who should be deported.
It’s that simple.
PatD
@Omnes Omnibus: Ok. I love bacon since that’s about as relevant to the post I responded to as whatever you’re doing here.
The Audacity of Krope
But no one is saying that. Saying those that want fair treatment for Palestinians support Hamas is a pervasive, disgusting, bipartisan line of slander.
PatD
@tam1MI: Yes? But my point is that no one, at least not Ilhan Omar or Tlaib has said anything like that about Hamas. So why do some like to associate them with a vile terrorist organization? Can we not support Palestinians without supporting Hamas?
The Audacity of Krope
Not according to the MSM or Fetterman. You know, the voices that matter.
PatD
@UncleEbeneezer: You know that there is a whole other territory to the east of Israel proper full of Palestinians where Hamas does not rule right? Would your talking points change if Israel were to wage a full out war on the West Bank? The people who are generally supportive of Palestinian causes in the US are not advocating for Hamas. They want peace and statehood. Why accept a right wing framing of this issue?
PatD
@The Audacity of Krope: I think that’s what’s depressing about this. Many have siloed themselves so completely with whatever team they support that they’re not able to have reasonable conversation on how to move forward. That was also a tragic consequence of October 7th.
Geminid
@YY_Sima Qian: Part of the proposed peace settlement with the PKK and the aligned DEM party involves amendments to the Turkish constitution that might open a path for Erdogan to seek a third term as President. The election could be moved up also.
The peace process does not seem to be affected by Imamoglu’s arrest. At least, last Sunday DEM and other Kurdish organiations held a Newroz celebration in Istanbul’s Sanikapi Square that drew hundreds of thousands, according to Erbil-based Rudaw English; this despite large anti-government protests elsewhere in the city.
That indicated to me the reconciliation process is still on, but one thing I have learned about Turkish politics is how much more there is to learn. I’m only now beginning to study the period 1950-2000 that in many ways (I think) conditioned 21st century Turkish politics.
I think R.T. Erdogan is 74 now, so I’m not sure he’d be up to another presidential term. The guy always looks like he’s about to fall over, but he might slouch on through the rest of the decade with a sort of gristly vitality. Erdogan was a avid footballer in his younger days so he may have built a strong constitution back then.*
If Erdogan can’t carry the AKP banner maybe Hakan Fidan will. Erdogan’s Foreign Minister seems to possess the elements of a formidable politician in his own right, and Erdogan has a lot of confidence and trust in him.
Hakan Fidan has an interesting biography; he served as a noncom in the Turkish army from 1985 to 2000, and then earned a PhD in International Relations from Bilkent University. Fidan was teaching there in 2005 when Erdogan tapped him to be his diplomatic troubleshooter.
Fidan did his post-doctoral work heading up Turkiye’s intelligence agency M.I.T. from 2011 until 2023 when Erdogan made him Foreign Minister. He’s a highly intelligent man, systematic in his thinking, and he happens to be half-Kurdish.
* An interesting “what if” in Turkish history: what if R.T. Erdogan had pursued a career as a pro football player? As a high schooler, he had an offer from a provincial team. We’ll never know because his coast guardsman father put his foot down: “No son, you’re going to college.”
The Audacity of Krope
This may have turbo-charged the acrimony between the sides, but the official narrative has been any questioning of Israel is anti-Semitic support of Hamas for my entire adult life.
BarcaChicago
@UncleEbeneezer:
Have either of you heard of a new group called Realign for Palestine? The founder and leader is a Palestinian man that I have followed for some time and respect. https://realignforpalestine.org/
@Geminid:
Trivia Man
@Professor Bigfoot: I had not heard of Scalzi, thanks.
For DEI i call it the Condeleeza fallacy. IMHO Condaleeza Rice has been a net negative on society – she fights for evil and perpetuation of unfairness and anti-good policy every time. But if anyone calls her a DEI hire or Unqualified i know their opinion is worthless. Evil though she may be, unqualified was never her problem.
eclare
@satby:
That’s why I have her pied.
Ruckus
This is an assault on OUR government, and on OUR very lives. This is an attempt to steal OUR country, by the person that won (how I have zero concept of) an election to be president for a second term, after showing who and what he was the first time. These are people that are attempting to overthrow the government from the inside. I imagine that trump has about 5% of his normal mental capacity at this point, and thinks (such as it is) that this is his country to do with whatever he wants. Except he doesn’t know what the hell he is doing to this country to the vast majority of the citizens of this country. Let’s make no mistake – this is an assault on OUR democracy, in the name of money and power.
The Audacity of Krope
Five percent of zero is still zero, jus’ sayin’.
tam1MI
I think for many people the “Gaza Protestors ♥️ Hamas” narrative got solidified because of the inevitably that, whenever someone on blogs like these tried to talk about the victims of October 7, the rapes, the torture killings, all that, the first reply would always be, “But what about the Palestinian victims?”. It really gave off the impression that those advocating the Gaza cause saw the victims of October 7 as somehow not being human enough for their lives to matter, or, worse “they had it coming”. Add in the avid embrace of the known-to-be antisemitic slogan, “from the river to the sea”, the well documented attacks on Jewish students at universities where protests took place, and open antisemitism of many protestors, and the now thundering silence when it comes to amplifying and supporting Palestinians trying to throw off the yoke of Hamas and it’s easy to see why so many people came to the conclusion that people who were pro-Gaza were also pro-Hamas.
Ruckus
@The Audacity of Krope:
Yes it is. I was sort of making a joke. Not a very funny one BTW…..
The Audacity of Krope
@Ruckus: I was entertained, even if I didn’t laugh. Something I learned watching Gutfeld! with my parents, even a legitimately good joke* can be acknowledged but will not elicit a laugh amidst an environment of horror.
*Vanishingly rare on that program, but even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut
Geminid
@satby: I’ve detected some evolution in that commenter’s analysis of U.S. politics. I just think she needs to read more (and maybe also hydrate more).
I wish Aussie Sheila would report more on her own nation’s politics. I think they have important elections this spring. Australia’s parliamentary system makes for different political dynamics, but our two electorates seem to have a fair amount in common, and some of the issues may as well.
PatD
@tam1MI: I think if everyone tries to demonize people they disagree with on some issues with the very worst of both sides then we will never make progress and we’ll see more people drift to voting for Republicans or 3rd parties and uncommitted. And not just pro-Palestinian voters. There’s a not insignificant number of pro-Israel anti-Palestinian voters who will do the same if the Democratic Party moves further left on Palestine.
LAC
@The Thin Black Duke: Yep! But whine about “how we need more fight and blah blah from our reps” but clutch the pearl time when it happens.
He and his wheelchair can roll into the gaping cave of hell and stay there.
Geminid
@BarcaChicago: Thanks. I had not heard of them before, but it seems like an interesting organization.
I’ve been caught up in day-to-day news about the Gaza war and about Israel’s domestic politics. Both seem to be near turning points but I can only guess the direction.
chemiclord
@The Audacity of Krope: Yeah, militant Zionists have wanted criticism of Israel to be attacks on Jews as a whole for DECADES.
tam1MI
It’s kind of hard not to demonize people who loudly and proudly threaten to hand this country over to fascists to Teach Us A Lesson., then gloat when it happens.
The Audacity of Krope
@tam1MI: On the Israel issue, in the United States, our only option is to choose between flavors of fascist.
This is one of the vanishingly few issues where I will endorse “both sides” framing.
Delicate Butterfly
Jasmine Crockett is an asshole.
Defending idiots just because of their party affiliation is what republicans do.
Do better.
The Audacity of Krope
@Delicate Butterfly: I got the rail, ready to run this one out, guys?
PatD
@tam1MI: Yeah, I think you’re focused on the fringe which does not represent the majority. Those are not voters anyone can count on.
My only point is that most people who disagree on this issue or find themselves on opposing sides actually have far more in common and can probably find ways to bridge the gap. But it won’t happen if people label everyone they disagree with as supportive of Hamas’ murderous barbarity and ideology or supportive of Israel indiscriminately murdering innocent men, women, and children by the thousands.
zhena gogolia
@The Audacity of Krope: That comes later in the clip. Hilarious! I have to watch this film.
chemiclord
@Delicate Butterfly:
Abbott and his ilk started this discourse. He doesn’t get to hide behind his disability now.
He wants to throw hands like a heavyweight, then he better start getting used to getting some hands.
Professor Bigfoot
@Trivia Man: The woman has a first-rate brain.
It’s her heart that’s questionable.
Professor Bigfoot
@Ruckus: It’s a repudiation of the Constitution itself.
Conservatives will overthrow the Constitution they claim to revere (“Constitutional conservatives” my arse) because it permitted a Black man became President; and call themselves “Patriots” while they’re about it.
VFX Lurker
If you have Netflix, consider watching Love, Death and Robots. Some of the funniest short stories adapt John Scalzi stories (ex: “Three Robots” and “The Day the Yogurt Took Over”).
VFX Lurker
Yeesh, just had to pie a random insect just now. 🦋
Professor Bigfoot
@Geminid: An important part of Australian politics is that voting is mandatory, as I understand it.
A VERY different milieu than a country that seeks to *limit* or even *obviate* voting.
The Audacity of Krope
And this didn’t have anything to do with the decades-old rhetorical position American supporters of Israeli dominance in the Middle East have embraced?
Or the fact that Israel’s immediate response was to inflict 100 times the pain on Palestinians?
Sorry, sounds like post-hoc rationalization to me. Abuser logic, look what you made us do.
Bupalos
@Belafon: understanding that political dynamics are changing and how they are changing does not require denying that racial politics and white supremacy are still very much alive and operative. It’s the degree to which white supremacy and white identity politics are spoken about here as if they are the difference that is powering post-truth right wing authoritarianism that I find problematic. I try to provide a different perspective on this. This is a global phenomena which interacts with ethnic identity politics everywhere, but is dependent or driven by ethnic identity politics nowhere. It’s primary drivers as I see them are spiraling inequality and decades of underinvestment in citizens, technological social disruption (mostly the internet and the way it’s changing brains) and (in shorthand) global warming.
tam1MI
Exactly. Other Dems wouldn’t bend the knee fast enough to suit the Gaza crowd, so they decided to throw the election to Trump to Teach Them A Lesson. “Trump is President now! Look what you made us do!”
And you once again dismiss the pain and suffering of the victims of October 7 while you are at it. Other people can acknowledge that what happened to those people was horrible while at the same time saying that Israel’s response was disproportionate and wrong. Why can’t some Gaza supporters?
The Audacity of Krope
@tam1MI: Whatever. Reflexive defense of policy empowering Israel to commit atrocities is exactly why I view the Democratic party as friendly to bigots. I understand they’ve recently expanded to discriminate against old and trans folk too…
rebelsdad
@YY_Sima Qian: This is true, and Idk why I didn’t realize it before I posted my comment. Probably distracted from the heartburn after my morning coffee today.
Geminid
@Professor Bigfoot: Turkiye also has mandatory voting. I think like in Australia there is a relatively small fine if you don’t vote. Participation in the May, 2023 election was 80%.
All voting in Turkiye is in person with no absentee ballots allowed. I saw a picture of someone being wheeled into polling place on a hospital gurney, and another of a voter wheeling an oxygen tank. They probably would have been exempt from a fine, so people applauded them for doing their civic duty. There is are a lot of political differences among Turks but they all seem proud of their Republic’s electoral process.
They use paper ballots that are filled out in a cubicle and then deposited in a clear plastic bin, with 450-500 voters for each polling station. When polls close, representatives from the top five parties and two election officials count the ballots and report the totals. Then they put the ballots in a heavy plastic bag with a seal and send them on to Ankara where they are counted again to verify the result.
Turkish citizens living overseas can vote at consulates, or in France and Germany at polling stations run with assistance from the host country. Germany had 12 such polling stations. I saw one picture of a Turkish woman on an airliner with two sealed bags on the seats next to her.
I remember an amusing video from the first round of the May, 2023 election. A young woman walked into a polling place trailed by her pet lamb. The lamb followed her into the cublicle where she filled out her ballot. Then she deposited the ballot and set off down the street with the lamb walking behind her.
She must have gone viral because later in the day someone posted video of her and her pet at home. The lamb wore an orange scarf, the color of Erdogan’s AKP party. This was no surprise because the young lady wore a headscarf herself, a sign that she was one of the observant Muslims who are the base of the AKP.
The Lodger
@The Audacity of Krope: Uhm.
pieceofpeace
@The Audacity of Krope: Agree!
WTFGhost
You mean, like, how if someone said we shouldn’t invade Iraq, someone screamed NINE ELEVEN NINE ELEVEN NINE ELEVEN until they shut up? Hey, don’t look at me like that – I’m only asking because I lived through it, and this looks just like it. So, was it like that? Warmongers shitting (sic) up people who are sensible about the real victims, who don’t have a steady supply of 2000lb bombs and delivery methods?
See, if you say “October 7,” everyone knows what you mean: you mean you want Israel to kill every fighting member of Hamas, no matter how many civilians get geeked along the way. They’re Hamas, after all, they don’t matter, not after OCTOBER 7!!!!!!11!!!!!!!
You know, just like someone screaming NINE ELEVEN! to demand the murder of Iraqi citizens.
For some reason, it’s always the people who complain about slaughter, not the supporters of slaughter, who are in the wrong. You don’t have to say anything to justify open warfare against Palestinians, many of whom are innocent bystanders; you only have to say “well, they’re not talking lovingly enough about my disaster!” which, to be honest, probably isn’t actually your disaster in the first place.
Most folks have to be upset for a whole raft of reasons to spin so much wool that won’t keep out a draft.
The Audacity of Krope
Ding Ding Ding!
Ramona
WTFGhost
@Delicate Butterfly: I agree – take a comment, out of context, and you know everything about that person, including, that they are, were, and always shall be, asshole, ever more.
Until they help Republicans improve their poll numbers in which case she’s a beautiful, wonderful, wise, heroine who cracks a few jokes here and there,
You were saying something funny about what the other side did, but I didn’t understand it. Could you elaborate?
@Trivia Man: Before the Iraq war, she declared the aluminum tubes were for centrifuges, and could be for nothing else, and that the IAEA was wrong. The IAEA was right. Rice had jack shit on them. I will argue that you can say she’s not *unqualified* but she should emphatically be *dis*qualified.
@tam1MI: Whooo, someone thought “and liberty and justice for all!” was *TRUE*!
As soon as you believe another person is vile, and disgusting, you are in good standing with the KKK-equivalent. They don’t care if you’d stand in front of such a vile, disgusting person to protect them with your very life.
They’ll get the vile, disgusting person when you’re not around, and you won’t care too much, see?
And if the cops feel that way, well, not all cops will break the law, of course, but some will, et voila, hatred of the vile, disgusting, helps spread hatred and injustice.
On the plus side, it’s very American.
UncleEbeneezer
@BarcaChicago: Absolutely. Big fan. To me, this is the only way forward and frankly anyone who objects to the goal of a two-state solution where BOTH Palestinians and Jews can live in peace with self-determination, in their ancestral lands, supports genocide/subjugation (of one group or the other). Those really are the only options:
1.) Jews are forced out/killed
2.) Palestinians are forced out/killed
3.) Some sort of compromise happens that means neither group is forced out.
Three is the only viable option that doesn’t result in true ethnic cleansing/genocide.
Geminid
@UncleEbeneezer: Al Arabiya reported that the anti-Hamas protests in Gaza continued for a second day. Their article gives more details. I neglected to note the title but the article probably can be easily found.
UncleEbeneezer
@The Audacity of Krope: Some of us can be mad at all of the bad actors, not just those on one side. We have had multiple front-page posts and probably thousands of comments documenting all the sins of Netanyahu/Israel (a couple more just this week). It was kind of a thing that dominated this space and almost every thread, for the past two years. Hell, one particular commenter probably had several hundred comments all on her own.
On the flip side I’ve seen:
• ZERO posts about the atrocities of 10/7 and the victims.
• ZERO posts about the Nova music festival, a particularly atrocious chapter of the 10/7 massacre
• ZERO posts about what Hamas literally was saying on camera as they executed innocent victims (hint: genocide, Jihad and antisemitism)
• ZERO posts about the innocent Israeli, Thai, American, hostages and their stories.
• ZERO posts about the long history of violence of Hamas against Israelis.
• ZERO posts about how Hamas brutally oppresses Palestinians (especially women and LGBTQ people) in Gaza.
• ZERO posts about Hamas’ constant use of Palestinians as human shields (made rather obvious by the fact that they built a 500 mile tunnel system, set up headquarters in it but won’t let civilians in to save themselves).
• ZERO posts about Hamas stealing food intended to go to the people of Gaza.
• ZERO posts about Hamas refusing to let Palestinians escape Gaza.
• ZERO posts about Hamas’ long-running tactic of using violence to kill any chance of peace deals.
• ZERO posts about the fact that Hamas’ whole plan/goal was to get as many residents of Gaza killed as possible to further justify Hamas’ existence.
• ZERO posts about the historic rise in antisemitism we have seen all over the world (and its’ effects on the Jewish commenters here).
• ZERO posts about the hostility that Jewish students have reported at Universities, unless they adopt Anti-Zionist positions.
• ZERO posts about the fact that the Anti-Zionist slogans and framings were crafted and sold to the West by the KGB.
• ZERO posts about what Zionism actually means to 90% of Jews, rather than the cartoon caricature of it treated as gospel on the Left.
Etc.
There’s only like three commenters here (one that I remember has seemingly been chased away) who ever even dare to bring any of this stuff up and as soon as we do we get knee-jerk accusations of being Pro-Genocide, Islamophobic, Likudniks etc., and the conversation shifts immediately back to Israel because apparently this conflict only has one participant and things like 10/7, the Second Intifada and the Hebron Massacre (which happened before Israel even existed) never happened or oh well whatever because they were justified by Jews having the audacity of wanting to return to their ancestral land after the Holocaust.
If you don’t want to engage in any of the above-mentioned topics, fine, stay out of them. But when you actively derail them or get mad about other people having them, yeah, people are gonna notice and judge you accordingly for doing so. It’s not that complicated.
There has been PLENTY of outrage and empathy for Palestinians voiced, repeatedly here for 2+ years. And that’s a good thing. But the innocent Israeli victims and hostages deserve the same consideration and grace. And Hamas deserves every bit as much scrutiny and condemnation for their sins, as Israel. I don’t know why that’s so fucking hard for some people here to stomach or understand.
The Audacity of Krope
But no one denies that Israeli victims are victims and deserve consideration and grace. That they should be home safely. That consideration is only denied on behalf of Palestinians.
You’re the equivalent of the guy screaming about black-on-black violence as a response to questioning of police violence.
Never mind that every point you raised was either something that both Israel and Hamas are guilty of, paranoid bullshit, or victim blaming. In terms of victim blaming, nothing disgusts me more than the term “human shields.” That’s just a ready-made excuse for people who want to conduct bombing campaigns and have zero regard for human life (It’s not our fault this country we’re bombing is full of people!).
PatD
@UncleEbeneezer: Thats quite the long screed. Not sure who it’s aimed at because literally no one was engaging with your initial comment until I did.
Even so, I don’t think any commenters here fit the narrative you’ve presented. No one’s defending Hamas. They perpetrated a great evil. Most people who protest the war Gaza do so over the indiscriminate and heavy loss of civilian lives.
I don’t choose to respond every time and also do quite infrequently but don’t think you won’t get continue to get pushback or that people don’t disagree with terrible arguments.
The Audacity of Krope
@PatD: If you don’t denounce Hamas with ten times the ferocity you denounce Israel, you’re understood to be a covert Hamas supporter.
Just ignore the fact that our government is supporting one side, and only one side, in this conflict.
WTFGhost
I know this is going to be hard to deal with, but, yes, Hamas did something horrible on 10/7, and, if Israel’s response was measured, and precise, we’d probably have talked a lot about that. But Israel’s response didn’t leave much room for that. What’s more, in today’s United States, everyone is surrounded by people saying “Israel should exterminate every member of Hamas because of 10/7!” So talking about 10/7 means feeling included in the exterminationists, without waffle-wording one’s post into nothingness.
When Israel is beating the crap out of the Palestinians, no one is thinking about the few brutal murders at the beginning, because that ignores the dead civilians now. Seriously, you sound not-unlike you’re demanding leniency for Israel for becoming murderous because they were severely provoked, but, geezum, what makes a nation good, or evil, is what they do when they are provoked, when they have an excuse, and, what I’ve seen doesn’t cover Israel in glory.
Seriously: ask yourself a question, when should the 10/7 memorial have happened. Were big bombs already falling? If so – I’m sorry, friend, I really am, but… we both know why there hasn’t been enough talk about the devastation Israel felt that day. I don’t disagree – I remember reading, on 10/7, and 10/8, some of us non-jews don’t get the feeling of a risk of “it happening again,” and I tried to be empathic. But then the shooting started, where Israel has all the advantages, and the civilian suffering was sure to be massive.
I’d much rather live in the world where Israel rooted out the top ten (/100/whatever-number) most wanted violent Hamas members, and we marked 10/7 as the day Israel could have gone crazy, but didn’t.
Geminid
@WTFGhost: The 1200 people– including ~950 civilians– killed by Hamas and its allies on October 7 were not “a few brutal murders.” It certainly did not seem that way to a country with one 33rd the population of the U.S. and it not seem that way to me. I’m not saying that Israel’s response was at all proportional but you are trivializing an important fact here.
pluky
@rebelsdad: Was about to reply “I checked her wiki”, but then I saw what you did there. :)
WTFGhost
@Geminid: I’m not going to say I was thoughtful in my writing – I was quite thoughtless, and you were right to call it out.
Here’s what I’m going to say, instead: if I hadn’t heard of tens of thousands of Palestinian dead, the raw pain of the October 7 attacks would resonate for me. If I hadn’t heard of humanitarian aid groups being bombed, because combatants sometimes snuck in with aid groups. If I hadn’t heard some Israeli say that they didn’t care what the ratio of Palestinians killed to Hamas fighters killed.
To me, the pain of October 7 fades to the background, with the violence visited upon others. And, you know what? I am being a bit insensitive to the Jewish (not Israeli) viewpoint. I’m sorry about that.
Because, you’re right – it’s not personal to me, that 1700 were brutally murdered in a single night of attacks. It doesn’t have the same fears, same pains, same angers, same whatevers. To me, it’s a news story, about how a nation I’d like to love, is doing something unlovable.
To me, the aftermath resonates far more strongly, and, in some ways, it should… but in other ways, you’re right, we shouldn’t forget, or neglect, another person’s real pains, and real grieving, just because other people are waving a metaphorical bloody shirt. It’s not an easy lesson for me to consider, but I’ll try to do better.
Geminid
@WTFGhost: I did not mean to come down so hard on you and I applogize for that. And I wasn’t judging you because I understand how people’s emotions over this war run really high.
WTFGhost
@Geminid:You came down just about right, for hard enough. I hadn’t thought things through to my normal satisfaction, and you called out a hole in my reasoning. I appreciate it.
Not as much as I’d appreciate a fresh baked cookie, but I don’t need a cookie to try to get the moral reasoning right.
BarcaChicago
@UncleEbeneezer: I agree on all points. I really hope that his group, Realign for Palestine, gathers support and becomes a powerful voice for Palestinians.
The Audacity of Krope
@BarcaChicago: I checked out realign for Palestine. I’m honestly disappointed.
A whole lot of what you shouldn’t do, no what you should do. And they’re definitely playing footsie, at a minimum, with the dual notions of Palestine being the only aggressors who matter and college protestors being supporters of a new intifada.
I legitimately went there hoping for new thinking and wasn’t seeing that.
dnfree
@schrodingers_cat:
@zhena gogolia:
@YY_Sima Qian:
I have seen a lot of capitulation from groups I expected and hoped would stand up to the Trump administration, like universities and law firms and media companies. Additionally, I think some people expected that traditionally “independent” agencies like the DOJ would remain independent, not be converted into right-wing attack agencies. So I’m in this country and I see what YY_Sima Qian does.
And I’m not a “purity pony”.
Edited to add that I may not be a “smart and valued commenter”, though. Opinions vary.
AxelFoley
@Delicate Butterfly: Fuck you.
AxelFoley
@WTFGhost: And fuck you, too.
The Audacity of Krope
@AxelFoley: Late but appreciated.
ETA: I’m only endorsing the first one.
WTFGhost
@AxelFoley: I have no desire to have sex with you, though if you are merely wishing me well in the sexual arena, don’t worry – I am happily married, after all.