Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

In my day, never was longer.

So many bastards, so little time.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

They spent the last eight months firing professionals and replacing them with ideologues.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

You are here: Home / 2025 Activism / Democratic Shadow Cabinet in the Works

Democratic Shadow Cabinet in the Works

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Looks like something called for by various commentators (and one or two legislators) is about to become reality. DNC Chair Ken Martin just announced on Bluesky that the DNC will be forming “The People’s Cabinet,” their version of the Shadow Cabinet that’s a traditional feature of the UK’s parliamentary system:

We’re launching the People’s Cabinet—a group of leaders, experts, and everyday Americans who will cut through Trump’s lies and speak directly to the people.

Stay tuned for more.

[image or embed]

— Ken Martin (@kenmartin.bsky.social) April 4, 2025 at 2:48 PM

If you can’t watch that, the main gist of the 35-second message is that the People’s Cabinet will be made up of “experts, leaders, and everyday Americans who will share reliable and accurate information that you can use to fight back.”

As long as Jasmine Crockett is given a prominent role (and James Carville never comes within two states of it), I’m willing to support it.

I haven’t been able to find a longer-form announcement yet, but if you see one, please share in the comments. Open thread.

Reader Interactions

238Comments

  2. 2.

    zhena gogolia

    That’s a good video.

    I also am Team Jasmine.

    I just read (skimmed, really) a disgusting interview in the NYT with Maura Healey, which was all about everything Biden did wrong. As I was brushing my teeth this morning, I was thinking, “They couldn’t find Jasmine Crockett’s number or something?”

  4. 4.

    sixthdoctor

    Rep. Crockett, AOC, Govs Walz and Pritzker, Mayor Pete, Sen. Booker, shoot, if Bill Burr wants to record a rant I’m all for it…

  7. 7.

    Jacel

    I hope there are plans for pushing the news media to pay any attention to this Democratic Shadow Cabinet. How much does the British press present their Shadow Cabinet? Or does a Shadow Cabinet only get promotion when a more liberal party is officially in power? (I’m recalling when an Obama State Of The Union was followed on network TV by not only a Republican response, but also speeches from several “Tea Party” factions.)

  9. 9.

    Cheryl from Maryland

    Good.  I suggested something similar to my senators in February.  Besides Carville etc NO and Crockett, AOC yes, I also suggest those not in the Cabinet be in sync with the Cabinet when they speak.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    I don’t want Carville to be part of this either, but people’s obsession with him is really odd. He hasn’t done much officially with the national party in a while, as far as I’m aware.

  12. 12.

    trollhattan

    So much winning.

    The measles outbreak in western Texas has hit 481 cases, with 59 newly identified infections confirmed over the last three days, ABC News reports.

    ETA, related. “Oopsie, our bad.”

    Some of the roughly 10,000 employees fired from the Department of Health and Human Services are being asked to come back.
    The agency’s secretary, Robert F Kennedy Jr, said the mass firings were consistent with the government’s goals to purge the federal workforce but said 20% of them were made in error.
    “Personnel that should not have been cut, were cut. We’re reinstating them. And that was always the plan”, he said, adding “we’ll make mistakes”.
    Terminating an entire team dedicated to lead poisoning and prevention at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention was among the mistakes, he said.

    The chainsaw approach to shrinking government is being led by tech billionaire Elon Musk and his Department of Government Efficiency (Doge) team.
    “Part of the Doge, we talked about this from the beginning, is we’re going to do 80% cuts, but 20% of those are going to have to be reinstated, because we’ll make mistakes,” Kennedy told reporters at a stop in Virginia.
    The firings had an instant impact.

  13. 13.

    scav

    @Baud: Conversational filler, useful as people really really really seem to need to comment? Rather like those that cannot read any posted recipe without complaining about the salt content.

  14. 14.

    Rose Judson

    @Jacel: You know, that’s a good question, about the representation of shadow cabinets by party. It’s hard to say given that the Tories were in power for so long. (The current Tories are also not a very well-run machine under Kemi Badenoch.) I think the main advantage of them is that  they present a more unified message of opposition.

    @scav: I see a Smokey and the Bandit remake, but with some chode driving a cybertruck instead of a Trans Am.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    This was reported here but it’s nice to see again.

    Target can’t get its footing after its DEI program demise and a 40-day boycott against the retailer. Foot traffic at stores is down for the eighth consecutive week

    End woke, go broke.

  18. 18.

    Anonymous At Work

    @Rose Judson: My understanding is that it was a tag to tell reporters whom from the opposition to contact about a topic.  You don’t go to the rep that gives you the juiciest on-the-record quotes, but to the person whom the party has anointed as their spokesperson on a topic.

    Now, here, in the US, there’ll be plenty of “Dems in Disarray” attempts by reporters to get competing on-the-record quotes but if Democrats are serious about this, then they need to be whipping (maybe not literally…maybe) members to stop taking reporters’ calls on any given topic.

  19. 19.

    Spanky

    Dow at 38614 and still dropping. We haven’t been here since last June. The Trump Bump isn’t merely dead. It’s really most sincerely dead.

  20. 20.

    dc

    We’re reinstating them. And that was always the plan”, he said, adding “we’ll make mistakes”.

    What is this, “we’ll make mistakes” shit, what the ever living fuck is this? And the media just yawns and says, okey dokey? If a Dem at any level expected everyone to just roll with, “we’ll make mistakes, we plan to, in fact”, they would tared and feathered.

  21. 21.

    sentient ai from the future

    GOP judges on the NC SC just ruled to throw out a bunch of legit ballots to tip the election to the GOP.

    opportunity for activism, because there are ballot curing operations that will be possible in the coming days.

  22. 22.

    Lobo

    @trollhattan:   There is no plan. The majority has always dealt in magical thinking.   Minorities, who always saw America as it was warts and all, tried to warn everybody.  But everyone told us not to worry our pretty little heads.    Here is TPM on that subject of magical thinking. The situation is now like the LOTR.   The war against Sauron is now a fight for Man, not the elves.   Likewise, this is the time for whites to fight.  This is your fight.  Minorities are tired and trying to survive.

  23. 23.

    Kelly

    @trollhattan:chainsaw approach to shrinking government is being led by tech billionaire Elon Musk

    Fire 10,000 people rehire 2,000? I’ve never taken a chainsaw to anything I reassembled.

  26. 26.

    Spanky

    The problem with Carville is that he’s not connected to anybody anymore, yet the lazy media knows he’ll never turn down some air time, and he’s “edgy”. (Like your uncle getting drunk at Thanksgiving is “edgy”).

    What needs to happen is for someone to pay him to stay off the air. He represents the old corporatist Democrats, and their day is done.

    ETA, him and Chris Matthews.

  27. 27.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @YY_Sima Qian: Well, they have significant ports, significant buyers’ markets, and significant goods for sale. The only thing stopping them might be the US Coast Guard.

  32. 32.

    eclare

    @trollhattan:

    I read that due to cuts, 50 vaccination clinics were cancelled in Dallas County TX.  IIRC they were to be held mostly at schools.

    Just a matter of time before measles gets to Dallas, then look out.

  35. 35.

    RevRick

    @Jacel: The parties chooses their leaders in advance of any election. Thus, the leader of the out-party would become Prime Minister should the party win the election. The average voter has little say in who becomes the leader. The party then negotiates within itself as to who will be the respective shadow ministers with the expectation that should the party win control, they would assume control of that particular ministry.

    Parliamentary democracies have very different ways of organizing. I suspect that Democratic politicians will not be given any roles in this shadow cabinet, because that would be seen as the DNC putting its thumb in the scale.

  37. 37.

    Old Man Shadow

    “Personnel that should not have been cut, were cut. We’re reinstating them. And that was always the plan”, he said, adding “we’ll make mistakes”.

    I sincerely hope that every single one of them tells you exactly, in great detail, what you can do with your reinstatement, you walking advertisement for abortion.

  38. 38.

    terraformer

    Great, but his message was a bit concerning to me. It’s not just about “providing accurate and reliable information we can use to fight back”

    It’s about *explicitly spotlighting what MAGA is doing, and why it’s wrong* and then *communicating what Democrats would do differently, and why that’s the right approach*

    I wish we had Wikler, but we don’t

  39. 39.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Baud: Meanwhile, Costco, who gave Mango Mussolini the bird over DEI, is currently experiencing a 13 week expansion of year over year foot traffic.

  42. 42.

    ExPatExDem

    As long as Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, and Nancy Pelosi are kept far away from it, it sounds like a good idea.

  44. 44.

    Baud

    Yesterday, for the first time in almost 30 years, Fox removed the market ticker showing Trump’s economic fallout in real time. Fox isn’t journalism. It’s state-run propaganda

  45. 45.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Baud: I have noticed that at the Costco that I go to regularly, way more people there. Used to go on Tuesdays in the evening because it was fairly empty. Not anymore, everyday the parking lot looks like Friday.

  46. 46.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    One of the first policy pronouncements this new Shadow Cabinet should be how we must follow the example of the Founding Fathers……by smuggling in cheap goods to avoid customs duties.

    Use ships flying a Gadsen Flag and it’ll be perfect!

  47. 47.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @YY_Sima Qian: I figure one two ways.

    Newsom is doing the Shadow Government thing.

    or

    Newsom is showing Trump that two can play at the blow off the constitution thing.

  48. 48.

    Socolofi

    While this is fine and maybe a decent PR play, I was thinking last night – what is the Democratic equivalent to the Heritage Foundation, and who is working on the Blueprint for the Next American Century?

    I have some notes…

  49. 49.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: I’m on the fence about this.

    Yes, corporate comms and messaging and programs are important.

    However, our local Target is almost exclusively operated by minorities of every gender, color, shape, size, religion, and age.  They do a good job.  I don’t see how me boycotting this store is going to help them at all.  The company seems to be going above and beyond in doing the work in this store, and perhaps is trying (for good or ill, successfully or not) to keep its head down when it comes to trying to stay out of the MAGAts cross-hairs.

    Dunno.

    FWIW.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  50. 50.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: A brave act of civil disobedience. Article says she was in the state to visit her grandparents and wrote all the lawmakers to tell them she’d use the restroom in the capitol building.

    When I read this portion of her letter, I thought “she doesn’t know Florida politicians.”

    “I know that you know in your heart that transgender people are human too, and that you can’t arrest us away. I know that you know that I have dignity. That’s why I know that you won’t arrest me.”

    But of course, she does know they’re troglodytes. This is how she’s shaming them.

  53. 53.

    Betty Cracker

    Regarding the shadow cabinet, I’m for trying new things, lots of new things. See what sticks, find out what doesn’t. One of the few advantages to being out of power is that you get to road test stuff.

  54. 54.

    ewrunning

    With you all the way on Carville. I wish the people who spam me daily with texts and emails from him would figure out there’s no better way to ensure I never read them ( or give them a dime).

  59. 59.

    trollhattan

    Even more winning.

    Global stock market value sheds $4.9 trillion, investment analyst says

    China’s announcement of a retaliatory tariff on the US has capped off a “horrible week” for financial markets, according to one investment analyst who fears share prices could be dragged even lower.

    “We’ve now seen $4.9 trillion wiped off the value of the global stock market since the Liberation Day speech, at the time of writing,” AJ Bell’s Dan Coatsworth says.

    “The rapid pullback in stocks and shares over the past few days has put a dent in people’s investments, including those in the US who were meant to have benefited from Trump’s actions,” Coatsworth adds.

    “Instead, his tactics have caused shockwaves in every corner of the world.”

    Also

    UK’s FTSE 100 suffers biggest daily fall since start of pandemic as global markets tumble
    -BBC

  60. 60.

    Wapiti

    @Baud: my MS desktop usually opens with common news: weather, stock exchange snapshot, etc. For yesterday and today the exchange snapshop is frozen with Wednesday’s close.

  62. 62.

    Jacel

    @Baud: Center for American Progress is an excellent think tank, but I don’t think there’s anything on the Democratic/liberal side equivalent to Heritage for being able to just make up crap and have it cited in the press as an authority.

  64. 64.

    Melancholy Jaques

    @Baud:

    He hasn’t done much officially with the national party in a while, as far as I’m aware.

    His main thing seems to be telling the rest of us how we’re doing it wrong.

  66. 66.

    Betty Cracker

    Dow is down 1700 right now. T$LA is down 8.6%, which is disappointing because it’s not 86%.

    Meanwhile, this is a real thing the orange fart cloud posted on his janky knock-off Twitter platform this morning.

    Tweet that reads Trump crashing the economy on purpose.

    In other news, AP reporters wrote a great lede:

    WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — Two days after sending the global economy reeling by announcing tariffs on foreign imports, President Donald Trump insisted his trade policies will never change as he remained ensconced in a bubble of wealth and power in Florida.

    Well done.

  67. 67.

    Harrison Wesley

    “Thanks to all of you who joined us today. Tune in next week for our how-to ‘Building a People’s Water Closet.'”

    Seriously, I think the shadow cabinet idea is a very good one. Because USA is facing challenges we’ve never seen, new ways of thinking should be encouraged.

  70. 70.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Spanky:

    ETA, him and Chris Matthews.

    I also bracket James Carville and Chris Matthews in my mind. Can’t fathom why MSNBC thinks either of those two out-of-touch loudmouths is worth even ten seconds of airtime.

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: Sure.

    But is Target’s board or management being hurt by this boycott? They can always say that any backlash had a minor effect and a drop in sales was due to consumer uncertainty or tariffs or …

    Their corporate paperwork on human capital management and compensation (3 page .pdf) still says:

    5. Human Capital Management.

    Review and discuss with management the human capital management matters relevant to the Corporation’s employees and, where applicable, independent contractors, including workplace health and safety, diversity and inclusion, culture and employee engagement, pay equity, and general approach to broad-based compensation, benefits, and employee growth and development practices. As a supplement to the Audit & Risk Committee’s oversight of the Corporation’s compliance and ethics program, periodically review the Corporation’s employment and workplace conduct practices that relate to the Corporation’s values and desired cultural environment

    The document is dated September 2021. Maybe they just haven’t updated it or haven’t posted the updated version. Dunno.

    FWIW.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    tam1MI

    @Baud: Ooh. Looks like a journalist looked at his 401(k) while at work today.

    It’s amazing how much journalism can be accomplished when the journalists no longer have to worry about access.

  73. 73.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @sixthdoctor:

    Rep. Crockett, AOC, Govs Walz and Pritzker, Mayor Pete, Sen. Booker, shoot, if Bill Burr wants to record a rant I’m all for it…

    Good list. I would add Jamie Raskin.

  74. 74.

    Suzanne

    I support this “Shadow Cabinet” approach. Essentially, I’m supportive of all of these approaches…. we’ll see what lands the best.

    Sigh.

  75. 75.

    p.a.

    MAGATs:  “We MEANT to do that!”… pulling stick out of eye.

    Fox: “Ocular aeration is great for eye health.”

    tRump:  “My sticks are the best sticks, and for only $29.99…”

  78. 78.

    Lobo

    @Betty Cracker:  A true heroine.  Again call your reps:

    House of Reps

    • Privileged motions to cancel tariffs and cause votes on supporting cancer research, etc.

    Senate

    • Refuse unanimous consent
    • Holds on everything
    • Quorum calls
    • No more support for nominees

    Ask them why this person has more courage than they do?  Also ask for a written response on why they are not doing it and report back here and at TPM and let them know you are going to report on their response or non-response.

  79. 79.

    Jackie

    @Betty Cracker: Related:

    “The world’s 500 richest people are seeing the biggest two-day loss ever recorded by the Bloomberg Billionaires Index as fallout from President Donald Trump’s tariff announcement continues to roil global markets,” Bloomberg reports.

    “As of 12:20 p.m. in New York, billionaires on the wealth list had lost $485 billion since Thursday’s stock market open.”

    I hope it hurts, even if just a little.

  82. 82.

    Jackie

    How many does this make now?

    “A violent felon whose sentence was commuted by President Trump was arrested Friday and charged with violating the terms of his supervised release after he was accused of a string of crimes that included assaulting a 3-year-old child,” the New York Times reports.

  83. 83.

    tam1MI

    @Betty Cracker: T$LA is down 10%

    It would be sadly hilarious if the thing that finally took out Tesla and collapsed Elon Musk ‘s empire were Trump’s tariffs.

  85. 85.

    Suzanne

    God. I know it’s dark humor, but these penguin tariff memes are giving me life today.

  86. 86.

    sentient ai from the future

    @Betty Cracker: it’s stalled around 10%, hovering around 240 on a friday which suggests to me (and i could be wildly off base) that a lot of options contracts are being called in, which is stabilizing the price at 240.

    for a company with a price like this, the options contracts are in increments of $5, and they all expire at the end of the trading week.

    thats my halfassed peanut-gallery guess

  91. 91.

    Spanky

    @Betty Cracker:

    Dow broke -2000 (T$LA is down 10%).

    Is it time to add the obligatory “Wheeee!” yet?

    In other news, I got my hair cut. No, literally, besides what my IRA is doing.

  92. 92.

    No One You Know

    @scav: Carville’s long past his sell-by date. His anti-women rant about MS-NBC infuriated many.  I bet there will be complaints about him until he disappears. And rightfully so. Anybody who lets him near a microphone is taking a risk.

  93. 93.

    Doc Sardonic

    @cain: Considering current conditions buying in bulk and sharing/splitting costs with others could be helpful.

  94. 94.

    MisterForkbeard

    I want the Shadow Cabinet/People’s Cabinet to comment on Trump’s War On Nintendo and Gamers. We clearly need guidance on this.

  95. 95.

    Pete Downunder

    We have the shadow cabinet system down here. It works well. The press knows to seek comment from the shadow minister for whatever if the current minister makes an announcement. It is not directly transferable to the US because ministers and shadow ministers are all sitting members of parliament, but having a designated spokesperson for each area and having the discipline for everyone else to STFU and tell the press to speak to the shadow would be great. Sadly the Democrats are not an organized political party.

  96. 96.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    There’s a 6 Nov 2012 tweet from the Orange Fart Cloud that said this:

    If the DOW drops 1000pts in two days, the President should be impeached immediately!

    Of course only if the President were some black Democrat.

  98. 98.

    martha

    @Doc Sardonic @cain : Interestingly, we made a Costco run yesterday morning and it was more crowded than a typical Thursday. The guy in front of us commented to the cashier and she said, quite diplomatically, that “yes, with everything going on, we expect to just get busier than usual from now on”…

  99. 99.

    Baud

    Mr. Tan Suit has something to say.

    Obama Breaks Silence on Trump’s ‘Unimaginable’ Presidency – “Imagine if I had done any of this,” the former two-term president said.

  100. 100.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    I wonder if we’re in the preliminary days of:

    The Greater Recession©

  102. 102.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    A friend just returned from a week in Tucson. She said everywhere she and her sister went, they heard people around them talking about the tariffs. Also about the National Parks. When she flew home yesterday, the driver from the airport started in on it immediately, saying that if the election were held today, the results would be different.

  104. 104.

    Suzanne

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    if the election were held today, the results would be different

    If only there had been some way to foresee that this would be bad!

    I really struggle with enjoying FAFO. Not so good at Christian charity.

  105. 105.

    Susan O. Singer

    Found this. From the DNC, but it does have a bit more detail than do Martin’s social media posts.

    Link

  106. 106.

    Shalimar

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: If the Dow drops another 2656, we should all send celebratory cakes to Kevin Hassett at the National Economic Council with “Dow 36000 Asshole” spelled out in shit on top

    Edit: and it’s already 2640 before I even finish typing the post.

  108. 108.

    sixthdoctor

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I remember that John Oliver did a segment after the first Brexit vote. There was a news clip about a voter who said if the vote was today she’d vote differently, and then Oliver continued “Ah, well, there’s good news because there will be another vote, it’ll be next week andNO THERE ISN’T! THAT WAS THE FUCKING VOTE!!!” So, yeah.

  110. 110.

    Doc Sardonic

    @Suzanne: I don’t struggle with it at all, just the other day I had the opportunity to speak some consoling words to an upset MAGAt. I chose not to, just reminded them this is what they voted for and wanted and it sucks so bad that your kid lost their cushy government job before they could start. The cherry on top was their wide eyed open mouthed expression when I concluded with ‘oh by the way, Fuck your feelings.’

  111. 111.

    Baud

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    saying that if the election were held today, the results would be different.

     

    If there were another election today, all the same forces that opposed us last year would activate to distract and manipulate people.

  113. 113.

    hotshoe

    @Jackie:

    500 richest, 485 billion losses:

    well shucks that’s not even one billion loss per person.

    They’ve got a lot further to fall.

     

    Eat the rich.

  114. 114.

    trollhattan

    Tell us Ted, whatever should we do?

    Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) said that he hopes President Trump’s tariffs work as leverage to get other countries to quickly lower trade barriers, but he sees big risks for jobs and inflation, the Wall Street Journal reports.

    Said Cruz: “This is throwing a long ball deep into the end zone.”

    He added: “This is the biggest tax increase we have seen in a long, long time. If we go into a recession, particularly a bad recession, 2026, in all likelihood politically, would be a bloodbath.”

    You’re a senator, is there anything the Senate might do? Ted? You there?

  115. 115.

    Geminid

    @hotshoe: When the stock market crashed in March of 2020, Trump made a pivot and started taking the pandemic more seriously, at least in public.

    That was easy for him then, but it won’t be nearly so easy now; he’s gone too far and he may be too far gone.

  116. 116.

    Lapassionara

    I have no idea how the country can withstand the ravages Trump will inflict on it over the next 3 plus years. We badly need an off ramp.

  119. 119.

    Martin

    Can we talk about something for real here. In order to raise $6T in revenue off of tariffs over the next decade as a way of avoiding taxes on wealth, we have destroyed $8T of wealth in 48 hours – and obtained zero benefit. No jobs created, no tariffs collected.

    Had we taxed that wealth and not imposed tariffs, we could have knocked out 25% of the national debt. Just since Wednesday.

    If Democrats don’t fucking frame this issue in this way, I don’t know what to do any longer. This is not hard.

  121. 121.

    Glidwrith

    @trollhattan: That article has the head of the lead division quoted-he’s heard nothing about being hired back and brainworm doesn’t say who is actually being brought back.

    He’s a murdering piece of shit, lying his ass off.

  122. 122.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Betty Cracker: An incredibly brave act of civil disobedience given that she’ll be sentenced to a men’s jail where she will undoubtedly be raped, repeatedly. Google “V coding” for trans women prisoners if you’ve got the stomach for it (huge, huge trigger warnings).

  124. 124.

    Spanky

    OK, are we done for the week? Dow closes at 38,314.80, down -2,231.13(-5.50%).

    Hope all of you Masters of the Universe have a great weekend binge drinking

    ETA, the Wayback Machine says we haven’t been down here since May 30 of last year. We’re not done yet! Wheeee!

  125. 125.

    JML

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I feel like the “they’ll never trust us again” with other countries is overblown. they’re going to be much more cautious in the short term and maybe even the medium term, but relationship between countries can go sideways for a while and come back. especially after you boot out the numbskulls and nincompoops that effed things up in the first place. never is a long time.

  126. 126.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Spanky:

    The Trump Bump isn’t merely dead. It’s really most sincerely dead.

    Like a house fell on it. ;-)

    Looks like you already gave the stock report.  I’ll just add that both the Dow and the S&P are below where they were this time last year.  S&P is down over a thousand points since its peak in late February, losing 17% of its value in the last month and a half.

  127. 127.

    Spanky

    @JML: We booted out the numbskulls in 2020, and here we are.

    “Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice …”

  132. 132.

    danielx

    Annnd Felonious Orange, having dropped a turd in the economic punchbowl…..is golfing.

  133. 133.

    NaijaGal

    @Baud: I get text messages supposedly from him (Carville) every week.  I wish they would stop, as I have no interest in what he has to say about anything.

  135. 135.

    lowtechcyclist

    @JML:

    I feel like the “they’ll never trust us again” with other countries is overblown. they’re going to be much more cautious in the short term and maybe even the medium term, but relationship between countries can go sideways for a while and come back. especially after you boot out the numbskulls and nincompoops that effed things up in the first place. never is a long time.

    Unless we do more than boot them out, which we’ve done a couple times now, they’re not going to trust us.

    Remember when they gave Obama the Nobel Peace Prize, basically for not being Dubya?  And at the time, we all thought Dubya was the Worst President Ever.  Then Trump won, but we booted him out after four years.  Maybe he was just a fluke, right?  And now he’s back, worse than ever.

    But the third time is apparently the charm. All our old allies are grimly determined to restructure their militaries and their economic policies so that they’ll no longer be dependent on us, and who can blame them?

    Forever is a long time, but my WAG is that most of the regulars here will have passed on before any of our old allies put themselves in a position of having to trust us any more than they absolutely have to.  I expect to live to mid-century, and I doubt that’ll change in my lifetime, unless we convict this entire lot of treason and lock them up for life. And maybe not even then.

  137. 137.

    Martin

    California is calling for meetings with foreign leaders to have California exempted from retaliatory tariffs.

  139. 139.

    WaterGirl

    @dc:

    “we’ll make mistakes, we plan to, in fact”

    “20% mistakes are built into everything we do here at DOGE”

    Assuming 20% of a 5-day work week, raise your hand if you could totally fuck up, and I mean really totally fuck up… people lose their jobs and/or die level of fuck up, one day a week.

    Everything you do on Tuesdays causes great emotional and physical harm and possibly death to thousands of people.  Every single Tuesday.  And that’s fine!   We planned it that way!

    No one?  No one else gets to do this?   Only our new government?

  140. 140.

    RevRick

    The Dow is only 600 points above its 52-week low. It’ll have to wait until Monday to crash through that mark.

  141. 141.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:

    She should have asked some trans men to grab their birth certificates and go with her.  Woulda confused the hell out of the cops.

  142. 142.

    M31

    hahahaha it held up!  Tesla down 10.42%

    good work everyone, keep it up

    (final price just under $240/share — should be around $30, actually, so there’s a long way to go)

  143. 143.

    Juju

    @WaterGirl: You’d get fired from Taco Bell if your work was 20% mistakes every week after your training period. It would probably not even take one week.

  146. 146.

    Kosh III

    @YY_Sima Qian:but I am not sure how CA negotiating trade deals w/ countries will work.

    The same way Tennessee negotiated with VW to build a plant here: lots of visits back and forth with talks and more talks plus 500 million welfare check to VW.

  147. 147.

    NaijaGal

    @JML: As long as MAGA Republicans retain power, nobody should trust the US.  I agree though that things can change.  Maybe if we elect and keep sane leadership for a decade or more.

  148. 148.

    Kosh III

    How many ordinary folks from deep red states like TN and MS will be included in this cabinet? And by ordinary I mean someone not a prosperous business person, an elected official, consultant or otherwise not economically impacted or marginalized. Think single black mother with two jobs and TANF and SNAP just to barely get by.

  149. 149.

    Another Scott

    @lowtechcyclist: We (as a species) might just go back to something that GW advocated:

    By 1796, the end of George Washington’s eighth year as US President, the United States had a dire strategic position. Interstate rivalries, violent insurrections such as the Whiskey Rebellion, solidifying opposition to the federal government in the form of the Anti-Federalist Party, and the US dependence on trade with Europe weakened the new nation. The increasingly-brittle federal government had been meanwhile held together almost entirely by Washington’s charismatic authority.[1]

    Receiving counsel from Treasury Secretary Alexander Hamilton, who cautioned the president that “we forget how little we can annoy,” Washington became convinced that the United States could not further antagonize the Kingdom of Great Britain and feared the possibility of British-imposed commercial isolation, which would precipitate an economic catastrophe that would “overturn the constitution and put into an overwhelming majority the anti-national forces.”[2] At the same time, radical government elements, led by Thomas Jefferson, had all but declared their support for American aid to the beleaguered French First Republic, which was at war with Great Britain. Jefferson mused that Hamilton, who was pro-British, was “panic-struck if we refuse our breach to every kick which Great Britain may choose to give it.”[3]

    In his valedictory Farewell Address, Washington announced his decision to step down from the presidency, partly because of his increasing weariness with public life, and included a short passage defending his policy of ignoring French requests for American assistance.[2][4][5] In an attempt to keep his remarks apolitical, Washington defended his policy by framing it as generic guidance for the future and avoided mentioning the French by name:[2]

    [ Painting of a US sailing ship firing at a French one ]

    Although the US had been allied with France, the Quasi-War soon after US independence foreshadowed the doctrine of unstable alliances.

    The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities… it is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements.

    — George Washington’s Farewell Address[6]
    However, in private correspondence about his address, Washington wrote that the geopolitical situation inspiring his advice would disappear in “not… probably more than twenty years.”[2]

    […]

    Something something history doesn’t repeat something something.

    Countries will (almost) always put their longer-term interests first. America still has a lot to offer the world, but the world is advancing and will make its own choices – we can’t dictate policies the way we could (to some extent) in the years between 1945 and, say, 1965. And in many ways that can be a good thing, if monsters don’t take advantage…

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  150. 150.

    Martin

    @YY_Sima Qian: They’re only negotiating for a retaliatory tariff – the one that the foreign government has control over.

    Presumably the pitch here is that foreign governments recognize the blue/red state divide and Newsom is going to argue that exempting blue states will move manufacturing from red states, punishing red state voters which Trump cares about.

    I don’t know if that would work, but note that CA is a large enough market to get those meetings. CA governors have worked out trade deals with other countries many times before.

  152. 152.

    Countme

    Will this Cabinet either have an armed security force or will the members themselves be armed with the latest in miltary grade weaponry and ammo?

    For when the threats of violence and the arrests come?

    Otherwise, it’s all just hot air and a worthless shadow pay.

  153. 153.

    Hoodie

    @Martin: About ten years ago I was a shareholder in a medium-sized law firm.  The firm was quite successful.  It had a fairly egalitarian compensation system which was generally based on how much actual billable work the individual shareholders did.  Essentially all expenses were shared per capita, with expenses being offset by revenue received from things like paralegal billings and fixed fees for certain transactions.  This system was pretty lucrative if you were willing to work.  It was largely a reflection of our founder, who was a workaholic guy who had come up in a firm that had a handful of partners who controlled books of business and leveraged off the work of other lawyers.  They were a bunch of hicks and despised them.  At our firm, he worked like a dog but loved every minute of it, particularly because he had been responsible for much of the firm’s success.  He made a lot of money and retired at 65.  I didn’t agree with everything he did but I respected him.  He had spent a good bit of time training me and my colleagues and helped all of us access opportunities without expecting us to wet his beak because he knew it was in his and the firm’s interest.  I appreciated that.

    Soon we added a few new people who came from other backgrounds.  These guys had not come up in our firm’s culture.  Some of these guys had worked in house and were able to use their personal contacts to get work.  Soon they became dissatisfied because they wanted to personally leverage more off those relationships, even though a lot of the work for these clients was performed by a bunch of others.  They started to claim the firm was ripping them off, that they weren’t appreciated for all the work they brought to the firm.  Of course, there wasn’t much talk about how the firm had provided a platform with trained personnel to support building their books of business, or the billing practices where they actually leveraged off others.  All of these guys had done exceedingly well after they came to the firm, whereas before they were just in-house schmucks subservient to corporate management who probably thought they were dweebs.

    About ten years ago, they started stirring shit up about all of this, particularly targeting a couple female attorneys as allegedly not living up to their (nonexistent) standards.  It was disgusting, particularly because a lot of my fellow partners passively let it happen.  It led me and one of my partners (another male my age) to leave and form a majority female-owned firmed with the two attorneys that had been targeted by these assholes.   The funny thing was the assholes that stirred this shit up were already themselves planning to leave and try to take a bunch of the firm’s larger shared clients with them.  They didn’t tell anyone, however, until a month or two after we left (they had actually filed incorporation docs before we left).  They purposely tried to blow up the original firm by poisoning relationships with its bigger clients.  In contrast, we just took a few small clients that we personally and exclusively worked for.

    As I watch events unfold in the Trump era, I can’t help but feel I’ve seen this movie before.

  154. 154.

    WaterGirl

    @Spanky: These assholes want people to be on edge every month, and then be grateful for something everyone has paid into their entire working lives when it comes though one more time.

    And then the cycle begins immediately the following day.

  156. 156.

    lowtechcyclist

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:

    There’s a 6 Nov 2012 tweet from the Orange Fart Cloud that said this:

    If the DOW drops 1000pts in two days, the President should be impeached immediately!

    Of course only if the President were some black Democrat.

    The Dow dropping >2000 points in one day, that’s totally different!

  159. 159.

    Jay

    @JML:

    Nope. It wont. The US is a house that is bitterly divided.

    wonkette.com/p/the-right-wants-to-turn-the-whole

    1/3rd are reasonably sane people.

    1/3rd are for various reasons, completely disengaged.
    a current vice of mine is visiting the r/Leopards Ate My Face reddits and noticing how many FUIGM posters are regretting their vote, now that it’s their ox being gored. The plaintive bleats of “I voted for you to hurt people, but you are hurting the wrong people”, and how few, connect that attitude to current events.

    1/3rd used to live in the asylum, but now they are loose on the streets.

    Over decades and decades, “we” built global and regional Organizations, Trade Deals, Institutions, etc, for the “common good”.

    When over time, there was a mismatch, or some harm caused, we all negotiated in good faith to “fix things”.

    NAFTA was not cast in stone, there was an appeals process, constant “improvements” of the rules and regulations to keep it evolving to keep pace with changes in the world. Environmental, Social Justice, Trade, IP, Employment, etc.

    Because you elected a petulant, grievance filled manbaby, NAFTA was renegotiated into the USMCA which made things less “fair” to Mexico and Canada and in theory settled some of the petulant, grievance filled manbaby’s obsessions along with some of your MOTU’s.

    The US completely blew that up in less than a month, along with every other deal you have made over the decades by re-electing that doddering, shit filled, moronic, ruZZian propaganda soaked petulant, grievance filled manbaby.

    The ROW has realized until you “fix” the American House, any deals, treaties, etc going forward with the USA, are one midterm, one Presidential election away from being worthless.

    We also realize that you have no idea how to fix your house so that the asylum inmates are confined to the basement, the realists man the stairs and basement door, and the disconnected in the livingroom, watching The Bachelor on TV are aware of and understand what the insane thumpings on the floor and the howls coming from the basement will mean if they get up the stairs, again.

    So, in the meantime, a couple generations or so, the ROW will go it’s own way until the insane asylum in the US’s basement is down to only a tiny few lunatics.

  160. 160.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:

    We are at a crossroads in our current lack of government.

    And yet it can get worse. Because a lot of this crap is coming from upon high. shitforbrains is president and his entire concept of life is lie, steal, cheat and lie, steal, cheat. He has zero positives in his portfolio. ZERO. And it isn’t going to get better. The right likes him because of the chaos and his inability to actually think. And of course because he’s supposedly wealthy. Maybe compared to the person that delivers your mail but compared to actual wealth – he ain’t close. elon likes him because he respects money and elon has a tad bit of that. Besides elon can get away with a lot of shit with shitforbrains in his back pocket.

  161. 161.

    Ruckus

    @Spanky:

    You have hair?

    I’m not completely bald but damn close. And my beard is now white. I think I might be getting old(er). Oh well better than the alternative.

  162. 162.

    NutmegAgain

    @rikyrah: I’m retired from that kind of work, and with a few exceptions (good endowments as long as that lasts) all the small and community level organizations have been threadbare at best for a long time now. This will surely be the death knell.

  164. 164.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Martin: Maybe we need to add THAT to our emails to our elected Ds.

    In fact, I’m on my way to do that. Thanks, Martin!

  167. 167.

    WaterGirl

    @NaijaGal: Have you tried responding with “STOP”.

    And it they don’t stop, reporting the as ABUSE?

    Very easy to do on an iPhone, don’t know about android.

  168. 168.

    cain

    @Ruckus:

    Imagine if a bunch of retirees started rioting and Trump declares a state of emergency and starts getting the army to go after ::check notes:: immigrants.

  170. 170.

    Jay

    @Martin:

    It’s probably not going to work. The integrated economy pretty much means that other than a few things, like some ag products, there is very little “Pure California” in the way of products.

    “Liberation Day” basically blew up any idea or method of targeting Red States alone.

  171. 171.

    pajaro

    @JML:

    Over the last 10 weeks, countries all over the world have started to make decisions about their future that are made under the assumption that the US is no longer  going to be a loyal ally or trade partner.

    Germany changed its constitution to facilitate its rearmament.  It’s not going to contract with the US for many of the weapons systems that it’s going to use and need to rearm.  And why would it, as we have threatened to use force against a NATO ally and have begun to ally with Russia.  The decision to no longer rely on the US is one that they are unlikely to change if, in four years, there’s a more friendly US administration.  As one French minister said, they are not willing to have their national security entrusted to voters in Wisconsin every four years.

    As to our economic decisions, the ASEAN nations (Japan and others) are opening talks with China.  If they replace us, it’s not like Japan will just flip back and resume trade relations as if nothing had happened.

    We’ve decided to break up with our allies, and, if in the future we say “we’re back,” we will find them in another place than where we left them.

  172. 172.

    Jackie

    I wonder if this order will be ignored:

    “A federal judge on Friday ordered the Trump administration to ask the government of El Salvador to release a man U.S. immigration officers mistakenly deported to a mega-prison there last month, in an emergency ruling after his lawyers argued that the man was at imminent risk of death,” the Washington Post reports.

    U.S. District Judge Paula Xinis in Maryland ordered the Trump administration to return Kilmar Abrego García, the husband of a U.S. citizen and longtime Maryland resident, to the United States by no later than 11:59 p.m. on Monday. As the judge issued her order, supporters outside the courtroom cheered.

    ****

    A developing story.

  173. 173.

    Martin

    @Jay: Manufacturing is integrated, but ag and services usually aren’t. CA has a LOT of ag and services.

  174. 174.

    Jeffro

    I can’t decide which is worse:

    • Dementia Don’s love of tariff “magic money” destroying world markets
    • DD’s mistress Laura Loomer being able to get the head of the NSA and Cyber Command fired based on…?

    But I do know that we need something other than a liberal Project 2029.  Maybe a Project 2025.5?

    #CallCongress

  175. 175.

    Martin

    @Jackie: I think it will be ignored, because I think they’ll see it as a loyalty test. If they give into the courts, they’ll lose support from the base. The whole point of this exercise is to break the rules that they think are dumb.

  176. 176.

    Steve in the ATL

    @cain: that’s crazy—it would be like getting attacked by Saudi Arabia and then invading Iraq!

  178. 178.

    Jay

    @Martin:

    Farmers don’t raise plow horses anymore, Wineries don’t build their own bottles and barrels and Services rely on electronics and the net.

    Had “Liberation Day” been reality based, targeted tariffs, rather than a shitfilled grievance ceremony written by some DOGEshit Intern and AI, (wasn’t even Grok, which is pretty sane at times), then it would have been responded to with reality based targeted tarriffs.

    So get ready for The Revenge of the Penguins.

  179. 179.

    Hoodie

    @Jay:  I was hoping we could fix the trade balance by sending a large orange hairball to Heard Island and McDonald Islands, but realized it’s not worth more than a bag of penguin shit.  At least the latter can be used for fertilizer. The former is toxic waste.

  180. 180.

    NaijaGal

    @WaterGirl: Yes, I have.  The number then changes (I believe another BJer has experienced this – edit see Juju’s comment at #143). I’ve also used the “Report junk” feature on my messaging app. Makes no difference.

  181. 181.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: Your Congressman is meeting the moment! John McGuire posted this today:

       The logging industry is vital to the VA05 economy.

    I was happy to sit down with the Virginia Logging Association to discuss the first bill I introduced, the Agriculture and Forestry Hauling Efficiency Act.

    I’m guessing the bill has to do with easing rules limiting hours a driver can haul logs in a day. What could go wrong?

  182. 182.

    Jay

    Jeff Stein
    @JStein_WaPo
    4h
    “He’s at the peak of just not giving a f— anymore,” said a White House official with knowledge of Trump’s thinking. “Bad news stories? Doesn’t give a f—. He’s going to do what he’s going to do. He’s going to do what he promised to do on the campaign trail.”

    Amazing work from @natalie_allison @michaelbirnbaum @Cat_Zakrzewski, led by @AmyEGardner
    Apr 4, 2025 · 4:44 PM UTC

    Not linking to the “We Killed Democracy in the Darkness” paper, the excerpt says it all.

    nitter.poast.org/JStein_WaPo/status/1908199124765172051#m

  183. 183.

    Martin

    @Jay: And California is not a small state unable to do those things in-state. It’s not going to impact the cost of tractors, but CA ag is VERY labor focused. In fact, that’s the whole fucking point of CA ag. Whatever costs are external to the state are minimal. Processing and packaging of ag products is all done in-state with very few exceptions. And favoring CA oranges over FL oranges will have an impact. That may not translate to something that voters can see, or that lawmakers care about. I’m not arguing that this is a good strategy – I don’t know. I don’t know if Newsom has enough to offer, I don’t know if further dividing the country economically will help. But a decent enough share of the CA economy is not really integrated with the rest of the country, at least from the point that ‘made in California’ is stamped on the good. The cost of the tractor and where it’s made is not relevant to what Newsom could do here. That’s out of everyone’s control. But whether CA oranges get tariffed or not can, at least in theory, be controlled. They are grown, picked, packaged, transported, and sent out of port entirely in CA. That divides the nations economy between a blue state and a red one, and that might be desirable.

  184. 184.

    NaijaGal

    @A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): They’re texting my phone so that doesn’t quite work (it’s easy for me to ignore political emails because they go to an account I don’t use for much else).

    I think it’s partly my fault because I do occasionally respond to texts from Tim Walz, Cory Booker, and a few other Democrats, so I probably get re-added to text lists that I don’t want to be on as a result.

  185. 185.

    NaijaGal

    @Jay: Except he didn’t promise to do anything related to Project 2025 (he explicitly disavowed that) or to blow up the economy while on the campaign trail.

  186. 186.

    NaijaGal

    @Martin: It also helps that many foreign governments study the US (in a way that MAGA fails to acknowledge) and understand the difference between red and blue states. Some are interested in making sure that red states feel the consequences of their voting strategy with their retaliatory tariff measures. Others don’t really care and will target the US as a whole.

  187. 187.

    MisterForkbeard

    @trollhattan: Cruz (like other republican congresscritters who’ve remarked on this) isn’t upset that it’s causing a huge amount of devastation and hurting people. He’s not upset that the economy will take a big fucking hit.

    He’s upset that they might get voted out in 2026.

  188. 188.

    Jay

    @Martin:

    And you are not getting it. We don’t care anymore.

    American beer has been pulled, US wines have been pulled, Whiskey has been pulled. The orange juice on the shelf is either Mexican, Chilean or Spanish.

    Nobody cares any more, nobody is willing to parse, nobody is willing to “compromise” after that shit show.

    If it’s “Made in the USA”, it is either being pulled from the shelf, counter tariffed, or not being bought, and Services are on the list.

  189. 189.

    Juju

    @WaterGirl: Consider yourself lucky if Carville’s organization doesn’t have your cell number or the stop and report as junk feature really works for you. It has not for me. I just did another stop and block a few days ago.

  194. 194.

    Juju

    @MisterForkbeard: This is the man who flew to Cancun when his constituents were freezing to death, and then re-elected him. Are you surprised that he wouldn’t care?

  195. 195.

    Jay

    @different-church-lady:

    Well, Edolph has promised a 30,000,000 humanoid robot workforce by 2029 and Bill Gates has promised a “robot sales tax” to pay for UBI,…………………………

     

    So you are in good, metallic, inhuman, clammy hands. Rest Easy.

  196. 196.

    Martin

    @Jay: I get that. But Canada is responding more to the 51st state threats than to the tariff threats. And I think that’s 100% understandable. Most other countries aren’t facing the same kind of aggression that Canada and Greenland are, and they are not necessarily looking for or benefit from a unilateral freezing out of the US. They may be open to externally influencing Americas internal politics, and Newsom is opening that door. Now, I don’t know that’s a good idea or not, and I don’t know if it’ll work or not (those are orthogonal). I do know that CAs economy – even just the stuff that mostly resides in the state borders – is large enough to get an audience.

  199. 199.

    different-church-lady

    @Jay:

    He’s going to do what he promised to do on the campaign trail.

    It’s stunning to me how many people still don’t get that.​ HE FUCKIN’ SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO IT, STOP ACTING SHOCKED YOU DUMBSHITS!

  200. 200.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Jeffro: Firing the head of NSA and Cyber Command based off “Mark Milley hired him, and you hate Mark Milley”.

    Sigh.

  202. 202.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Percysowner: If we ever have a Democratic president again, we can expect that to be used liberally to not do the things that Republicans got laws passed for. Like how Biden got dragged endless for “building the wall” or hiring CBP agents that were mandated by law. We can just not do that next time.

    Except, you know, that the Court will find a loophole that means Dems aren’t allowed to govern.

  203. 203.

    Jay

    @Martin:

    When DJTdiot threatened tariffs, brought in the 25% tariff, then lifted it, (briefly), Canada matched the tariff’s sector by sector. Guess who didn’t lift the matching tariff’s when DJTdiot briefly lifted his. Yup.

    While the 51st State wanking and the Governor wanking pissed us off, the last 5 times you tried to annex us failed miserably, we know that they are the taunts of a kindergarten bully.

    We looked at “targeted tariff’s”, but quite frankly, after that ignorant shitshow, we in Canada, just don’t care anymore. They are USA’s tariff’s, and California is part of the USA. We don’t care about Red State/Blue State anymore, you are all Red States to us.

    To put it another way, yes, there are some wrongly incarcerated people in that shit show that used to be a Country but is now nothing more than a lunatic Asylum, but that’s your problem, not ours.

    We are trying to become the 28th member of the EU, but it’s a race against Norway right now.

  204. 204.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Juju: No. I’ve heard this same analysis from a bunch of other Republican congressfascists too.

    They don’t care, as a group. They do care that they might not be top dog in 2 years. Which is why they’re also trying to destroy democracy simulataneously.

  206. 206.

    Spanky

    OUCH!

    Well, I looked at my IRA, and it’s down 3%ish. And I notice in a not-goodish sort of way that my foreign stock funds are all down over 6%.

    The US sneezes and the rest of the world catches pneumonia.

  207. 207.

    They Call Me Noni

    @NaijaGal: I don’t think that’ll do it.  We have proven to the world that we can live through Trump 1.0, witness the horror of J6 and do diddly squat about it and then in four years elect him again.  Hell, I don’t trust this country until a LOT of changes are made to our laws that allowed all this to happen including the way we count the votes.  How in the hell can you win the popular vote and lose an election?  It doesn’t make any sense.

  209. 209.

    Jay

    @Spanky:

    DAX Index is up 22.19%, STOXX 600 is up 15.11%, but those are all largely EU Defense Industry stock index funds

    In other words, in the EU, guns are up, butter is down. Same in Canada.

  211. 211.

    Harrison Wesley

    Forget the “Great” Depression. This will be THE GREATEST, BIGLIEST DEPRESSION! A BEAUTIFUL DEPRESSION!

  212. 212.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Thank you to all the jackals that responded to my question!

    So, I think it is conceivable for CA & other blue states to obtain exemptions from the U.S.’ trade partners on farm products specific to their states (such as almonds). The value of these agricultural exports are low enough that trade partners could feel generous enough to let slide. The question is what can CA & the blue states offer in return so that such exemptions are not viewed as unilateral concessions to the U.S. Whatever concessions Newsom makes can be quashed by DC. Many foreign governments may have a nuanced understanding of U.S. politics, most of the foreign populations probably do not.

    Either Newsom bribes Trump to obtain some exemptions on US tariffs, or CA effectively secedes. In the latter case, it will mean civil war, since MAGA is sure to send in federal troops to enforce federal regulations (despite their own lawlessness).

  213. 213.

    Jeffro

    @Geminid: yeah he keeps emailing nonsense about how he and trumpov are “protecting America” (both in terms of national defense and tariffs and whatever)

    I still call him every Mon, Wed, Fri.  His staffers are polite.  I might have to figure out how to do more, though.

  214. 214.

    Jay

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    The question is what can CA & the blue states offer in return so that such exemptions are not viewed as unilateral concessions to the U.S.

    Nothing, and guess who’s voters grows those almonds?

    Prior to “Liberation Day” targeted counter tariff’s were a “strategic move”, now they are not.

    The only places where tariff’s will not be placed on US Goods is when it’s in the Host Country’s strategic interest to keep the supply chain open for their own industries/markets advantage.

  215. 215.

    Jeffro

    @MisterForkbeard: she’s nuts and in any other timeline, the thought that a president’s mistress can waltz into the WH and get the head of NSA fired?  ten times insanity

  216. 216.

    Jeffro

    @Spanky:

    The US sneezes and the rest of the world catches pneumonia.

    so true

    the MAGA GOP needs to understand, “rule or ruin” works both ways/includes both options

    I…and more importantly, my kids and grandkids…are NOT going to live in a country where the trump kkkrime kartel gets to skim off of every US government contract, or where our national security is subject to the whims of the president’s concubine

    We’ll fight here and fight like hell, but in the end, we stand for values, not a particular piece of land or flag.  I’m good with shipping off to Canada, the EU, whatever.

  217. 217.

    sentient ai from the future

    @Jackie: the WH already responded with a snotty “well I guess the judge needs to talk to bukele then, neener neener”

    so all next week seems like it’s gonna be the hold the doj in contempt show.

  220. 220.

    Ruckus

    @Geminid:

    he may be too far gone.

    There is no may be about it. He’s been too far gone for some time.

    How anyone thought he was going to be in any way a president is beyond me. He was crapola the first time and all that’s happened is he’s gotten older, and even less capable. As an old fart myownself, who lives in a 55 or older apartment complex I can guarantee there is no rational reason he should be anywhere near the head of our government. NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZERO.

  221. 221.

    Ksmiami

    @YY_Sima Qian: actually, there’s a good case for the entire coastal western region to just become part of Canada. I think breaking up the US is pretty inevitable at this point.

  222. 222.

    Martin

    @YY_Sima Qian: the only thing I think this can hope to achieve is dividing US voters, with the hope that divides them further against conservatives. Sure Trump could place export tariffs on the stuff that California clears, but now you’re deliberately pissing off the people who benefit from that (mostly CA conservatives, but likely farmers in other places watching Trump going out of his way to harm CA farmers).

    To the extent that every country wants to influence to some degree the internal politics of other countries, this is a mechanism to that, and that might be enough.

    Part of why I’m skeptical it will be helpful to the state or to the overall goal, is that Newsom has a LOT of personal ambition and motivation to set himself up as a counterpart to Trump for his 2028 aspirations, possibly to the detriment to everyone else.

  223. 223.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: I read some people from Charlottesville attended a rally on Lynchburg calling for McGuire to hold an in-person town hall.

    McGuire is in a fairly safe seat and only has to fear a primary from the right, so I wouldn’t expect him to come out against Trump. He doesn’t seem to be doing much cheerleading either. A careful man, except when it comes to logging trucks.

  224. 224.

    Martin

    @Ksmiami: Realize that only happens via either war, or a constitutional convention where the states fail to agree on a new constitution and go their own ways.

  225. 225.

    Jeffro

    @Geminid: I think in a world…or a midterm election…where things shift 10-15% to the left, even McGuire is not safe.

    HE doesn’t think that, of course, but we’ll see.

  226. 226.

    Geminid

    @Martin: Do you think Gavin Newsom has what it takes to win the nomination in 2028? I’m not talking about policies or financial backing so much as personal appeal. I’m assuming there’ll be some tough competition.

  227. 227.

    Ruckus

    @Juju:

    If it continues or even gets worse, I send them a notice that if they do not remove me from their bullshit I will take legal action.

    Only had to do this once and I never got another anything from them.

  228. 228.

    Geminid

    @Jeffro: Maybe Cameron Webb will give it another shot. He’s only 41. Webb impressed me when he ran against Good in 2020. I saw him speak in Stansrdsville. Webb reminded me of another tall, skinny Black guy named Barak Obama.

  229. 229.

    YY_Sima Qian

    @Martin: That is too much “inside baseball” to foreign governments, so far from the mid-terms. They will simply try to bribe Trump to obtain temporary relief in the short term (as Trump feels the heat from the collapsing U.S. stock market), while continuing to “de-risk” from the U.S. in the medium to long term. There is no point basing one’s U.S. strategy on trying to “influence the [fickle] 4000 swing voters in WI (or any other state)”.

  230. 230.

    Jay

    @Ksmiami:

    Cascadia has been a “thing” since 1874.

    Most it’s ever gotten is some potheads to form a party from time to time.

  231. 231.

    Jay

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Nobody is going to “bribe” the DJTdiot. Everybody but Orban and Fico have realized that giving into his bullying just causes him to double down. You either call him out, like Mexico, or stay polite and give him nothing.

  232. 232.

    Geminid

    @YY_Sima Qian: My impression is that other countries see Trump as a Yankee problem. They’ll try mitigate the harm to themselves but they’re gonna leave it to us Yankees to clean up our own mess. A realistic approach in my opinion.

  233. 233.

    Jay

    @Geminid:

    DJTdiot 2.0 makes it clear that the US needs more than a House cleaning. Y’all got way too many crazies in power. The House, the Senate, the White Supremacy House, the White Supremacy Court, the Federalist Society et al, the Rethugs, the States all need to be tented off and fumigated.

  234. 234.

    brantl

    @dc:What is this, “we’ll make mistakes” shit, what the ever living fuck is this? And the media just yawns and says, okey dokey? If a Dem at any level expected everyone to just roll with, “we’ll make mistakes, we plan to, in fact”, they would tared and feathered.

    I don’t think that they would have their weight zeroed out.

  235. 235.

    They Call Me Noni

    @Jay: True.  I tell you just the sheer amount of criminality Trump has gotten away with makes my blood boil.  Add on top of that the absolute stupidity of the people who voted for him and now are regretting it is mind boggling.

  236. 236.

    Kirk

    @Geminid: I think Newsom built a huge barrier against success that way. Kirk as his first guess, Bannon. Very anti-trans and some mixed messages on support for the rest of the non-white-male folk.  It’s “nuttin’ but quotes” for anyone opposing him in the next run.

    He’s charming and hits a lot of good notes but that anchor he built is probably too much.

  237. 237.

    Geminid

    @Kirk: A late reply.

    Let’s say the podcast issues don’t matter to Democratic votersthree years from now (even if maybe they should) and they are seeing Newsom without that baggage, for the first time. What I’m getting at is: would he have the requisite personal appeal? Would he inspire confidence and trust?

    I’ve only observed Newsom intermittently and from a distance, but he strikes me as middle-weight politician who’s hit his ceiling. I’m wondering how people who’ve seen Newsom from closer and for longer see him.

  238. 238.

    Ramalama

    @Martin:

    @Jay:

    Jay’s right. When Ontario premier Ford said, in retaliation, he’s happy to shut off the electricity to the 3 places in the US, everyone in Canada except for Alberta’s Smith and Pierre verb the noun Poilievre said DO IT. Wisconsin, Minnesota, and New York. Places not in the south. Mostly Harris voters.

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