This post might be more incoherent than usual because I can’t have coffee yet. I have an appointment for blood work at 8:00 AM (prior to a routine checkup with my primary doc later this week), so I was told to not have anything to eat or drink except water after 8:00 PM yesterday.
Unwisely, I had a Klondike bar for dinner. Bill tried to tell me I should eat something normal for supper, but I wouldn’t listen because I wanted a Klondike bar. So now I’m starving and jonesing for caffeine.
Bill is on staycation this week, so he’s driving me to the lab, and the minute I get sprung, we’re proceeding directly to our favorite diner, and I’m going to have two eggs over medium with bacon and grits and toast with jam and several mugs of coffee with half and half. Or maybe I’ll have sausages instead of bacon and home fries rather than grits. Or maybe grits AND home fries and bacon AND sausages. And probably juice.
***
Looks like the stock market is set to tank at the opening bell. Here are current Wall Street Journal headlines:
Selloff Hammers Global Markets as U.S. Stock Futures Sink
Trump Golfs, Fires Off Social Media Posts as Markets Convulse
Over at his chintzy Twitter knock-off, Dumbfuck Hitler posted a clip of himself teeing off at one of his stupid clubs. Not that he has a good side, but the clip was shot from a very unflattering back-view angle.
I guess he posted it because he thought his flabby, awkward swing looked cool? Then he posted a couple of anti-fentanyl PSAs and the following message for the markets:
We have massive Financial Deficits with China, the European Union, and many others. The only way this problem can be cured is with TARIFFS, which are now bringing Tens of Billions of Dollars into the U.S.A. They are already in effect, and a beautiful thing to behold. The Surplus with these Countries has grown during the “Presidency” of Sleepy Joe Biden. We are going to reverse it, and reverse it QUICKLY. Some day people will realize that Tariffs, for the United States of America, are a very beautiful thing!
“Some day.”
The Wall Street douchebags who were ecstatic about Trump’s election are now apoplectic. WSJ gift link:
For weeks, as the contours of President Trump’s sweeping tariff plans came in and out of focus, Wall Street’s big names kept any concerns they had to themselves.
Now, after a two-day market meltdown last week that erased trillions in value from U.S. stocks, some are speaking out, including those who have been vocal supporters of Trump.
Bill Ackman, the billionaire hedge-fund manager behind Pershing Square, called for a 90-day pause in the tariffs to negotiate with other countries, warning that the alternative was “a self-induced, economic nuclear winter.”
“We are in the process of destroying confidence in our country as a trading partner, as a place to do business, and as a market to invest capital,” Ackman wrote in a social-media post on X.
It would be easier to face this shitstorm with a nice mug of coffee.
Open thread.
On The Road – Auntie Anne – Southeast Asia – Country and City Scenes – Vietnam 1 of 5
Llelldorin
Rep. Swalwell’s response to Ackman was a thing of beauty.
Lord Fartdaddy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I don’t… I can’t… What the…?
How does this shitshow end? I only hope we can make it through this without a worldwide depression, but how good are the odds of that? I don’t know a lot about economics, but even I can tell this looks bad.
evodevo
Your breakfast remedy looks like what I do after a colonoscopy LOL – damn the torpedoes…
VeniceRiley
It’s amazing how so many people in the “pro business” party just sit on their hands during this preventable debacle. What a bunch of cowards and frauds.
Geminid
I see Bill Ackman is complaining that Commerce Secretary Howard Luttnick’s investment firm is long on bonds, and stands to profit from a stock market crash; says this is a conflict of interest.
Meanwhile, Luttnick and Elon Musk are having a spork fight over tariffs. It seems a wave of White-on-White violence is breaking out.
Trump may get a chance to take reporters’ questions this afternoon, if his planned news conference with Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu comes off. It’s scheduled for 2:30 p.m.
Baud
The markets are woke!
robtrim
Financial crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!
Billionaires are shocked! Bailouts for the guilty are on standby.
Scamp Dog
Over the last few days I’ve started to think that Big Money may want a coup at this point, but they probably don’t have any way of pulling it off. Which is good, because their goal wouldn’t be restoring democracy, not when destroying Social Security and Medicare is finally within their reach.
So how does this end? My crystal ball is totally non-operational at this point.
Baud
@Geminid:
“Mr. President, we helped you own the libs. Why are you destroying my 401(k)?”
Soprano2
So Ackman is a subject of the leopards eating faces Reddit now. Funny how none of them listened to what he said he was going to do. Remember, Republicans in Congress could stop all of this today.
Baud
Sanjeevs
Jamie Dimon in January
Jamie Dimon today.
Baud
@Sanjeevs:
He deserves a bigger bonus.
Ramalama
@Geminid: I will never not find the term spork fight hilarious.
p.a.
Glad I stayed in good enough shape- so far- in my retirement to be able to get a not majorly physical job if needed. And if there’s any jerbs available.
If the collapse would result in some $$ transfer from my Boomer generation to the next few in line who seem to really need it that would be uncomfortable personally but big picture ok. This is just nuking value, but only the trumpturds should be surprised, if they had functioning brains.
They drained the swamp so the swampthings could run the gubmint.
Matt McIrvin
Back when everyone was buzzing about the imminent Bidencession a couple of years ago, there were CEOs publicly salivating about it because it’d knock some sense into their lazy, entitled workers.
Well, you’re gonna get it, folks. Happy now? Probably imagined it’d just be a little haircut.
Betty Cracker
I’ll “get over” the hit to my hilariously modest 401(k) as long as T$LA tanks good and hard!
Now Bill is having a steaming mug of delicious coffee right in front of me, the bastard.
Spanky
@Baud: The fact that Jamie Diamon still has influence on the financial world tells you everything you know about the financial world.
A confederation of dunces. Very rich dunces. And we ain’t in it.
Baud
@Spanky:
We don’t have the financial cushion to be stupid.
Spanky
@Baud: Right! I got this way without all that money.
Steve Holmes
I love a big breakfast. I hope you get in and out quickly so you can get your coffee before the price goes up.
I’m also a big fan of grits, one of the top carriers of butter in the breakfast world
catclub
@Betty Cracker: Well done, Bill!
Jeffg166
Read somewhere hedge funds had been buying on margin in large quantities. The banks are calling in the margins. Wonder how many big hedge funds will go belly up today. Plus why we will have to bail them out again.
MattF
It’s been noted that the way tariffs work is to raise prices on imported goods, making it a thankless political chore to also maintain that tariffs are not inflationary. But the financial wizards must do as the Red Queen would do… believing six impossible things before breakfast. Now, returning to topic, off to cook some real oatmeal.
Deputinize America
Any day now, the 45 year old experiment with trickle down is going to pay off.
Im sure that if we give the bloated orange mediocrity’s bold play with tariffs a similar chance, it’ll really help people out!
Spanky
We’re in this firehose of rain coming out of the Gulf of Mexico, but it’s only 49 degrees. I’m in no hurry to get out of bed.
catclub
@Ramalama: Titanium sporks can be dangerous.
Baud
@Deputinize America:
In fairness, what Trump is doing right now isn’t trickle down. The massive tax cut they’re working on is trickle down.
sentient ai from the future
okay, look, josh marshall has “t******’s razor” that says the stupidest explanation is most likely when it comes to the shitbird.
everyone on the teevee and the youtubes is saying oh, well he wants to make people grovel, he wants tribute like a king can demand, hes been talking about tariffs since the 80s, he wants to finance the government with tariffs instead of having an income tax
but he’s also been badgering jerome powell to bring down interest rates. powell obviously ignores this.
but a recession is a reason to bring down interest rates.
and this motherfucker is deeply stupid and deeply personal.
so, what kind of shit does it imply if the stupidest possible explanation, that he will willingly induce a global recession to get this single person to do what he wants, imply? asking because that level of psychosis can imply a strategy to manage the fallout from it.
motherfucker is so deranged he’s turned fucking jerome powell into some kind of resistance fighter now.
JerseyBeard
As the captains of high finance and right wing authoritarianism go after each other with the rage of rabid skunks, I sit here making a sports flag that simply says “injuries.”
Empathy rots empires, I hear.
catclub
@Jeffg166:
Could you be a little more vague? Your precision and attention to detail is unnerving.
Deputinize America
@MattF:
I’m going with garlicky hot sausage and smoked paprika cheese grits, garnished with fresh cilantro and scallions….
Jeffro
@Scamp Dog: honestly? I think it ends with just enough GOP Reps and Senators siding with the Dems…possibly with the $$$ and backing from Musk…that they reassert some sort of authority here ending the tariff nonsense.
It’ll be too little, too late, but that’s really the only thing to do at this point. As someone on BlueSky noted (paraphrasing here), “this is just the first 3 months…the markets and world economy can’t take another 45 months of this”
Geminid
@Geminid: Israeli journalist Noga Tarnopolsky posted an interesting item about this visit:
Netanyahu has a clue now, because he met with Commerce Secretary Luttnick last night. One observer said Trump wanted an example of a foreign leader coming to him to beg sanctions relief, and Netanyahu’s the one. Trump knows that if he snaps his fingers, “Bibi” has to come running.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker: now now, did you hesitate to eat that Klondike bar right in front of Bill last night? Nope
catclub
Unless there is also inflation. Tariffs raise prices. Stagflation!
Also if the dollar is weakening, one might raise interest rates to help strengthen it.
Doug
The Wall Street douchebags who were ecstatic about Trump’s election are now apoplectic.
The leopards, though, they are feeling particularly well fed.
sentient ai from the future
@catclub: yeah but you sound like you fuckin know stuff or somethin, you some egghead reader person? [squinty eye]
i’m saying that to the stupid motherfucker in charge, it might seem perfectly in keeping with how the world works, in that whole “lacking object permanence” sort of way
Geminid
@Ramalama: I think Luttnick and Musk should have one of those fights where someone ties their left wrists together. Then put welding helmets on their heads and let them go at it with metal sporks.
catclub
@Jeffro:
I would guess that will happen about the twelfth of never.
Next you’ll tell me the Congress has revoked Trump’s freedom to declare emergencies. And reclaimed their right to declare wars.
…. And Musk will back all of it? What are you smoking?
Deputinize America
@Baud:
Oh, I know – I’m simply trying to counter tempo the drumbeat that I’m hearing about “just give him a chance” – it’s out there already.
Suzanne
@Jeffro: That’s what I am hoping….. enough GOP Reps and Senators from swingy states who want to get re-elected work up some courage.
This is absolutely insane. All of the savviest “economically conservative but socially liberal” centrist types who assured me that FFOTUS should be taken “seriously but not literally” should really be looking inward right now.
p.a.
@Geminid: Why helmets? Unless pickelhaube.
Jackie
@Betty Cracker:
If you can tolerate black unsweetened coffee, you could have a cup of caffeine – at least that’s what I’m told when I have to fast before labs… Luckily, that’s how I drink coffee, anyway.
Deputinize America
@Geminid:
Not sporks – freshly sharpened wood chisels, and skip the helmets.
I really regret that he didn’t go to work on time on time on 9/11.
Suzanne
@catclub: Musk is apparently opposed to the tariffs. He’s crazy, but he can still do math.
Central Planning
@BC – Not that I would advise you to ignore your doctor’s warnings about food and drink before bloodwork/procedures, but all of my doctors have said black coffee was ok.
catclub
This is all Trump’s M.O.
Do something stupid to change something that was working fine.
It gets worse. Quietly go back to the way it was. Take credit for things getting better than the disaster he just caused.
Example: when He fires RFKjr over measles.
Baud
@catclub:
If it works, it works.
Princess
@Suzanne: Musk isn’t stupid. Teslas are made in the US so he can sell them there. But he won’t be able to sell them anywhere else, and he’s destroyed his local market.
Princess
@catclub: I’m not convinced he’s going to do that with tariffs. He’s been a true believer since 87 and they’re an easy thing for him to do and stick to. I think he will need to be forced, and that means Congress or SCOTUS.
lowtechcyclist
@Jeffg166:
I’d love to see a bunch of hedge funds going belly up.
Can’t see why we’d need to bail them out. Banks, maybe. Hedge funds, no fucking way.
Hopefully FFOTUS sees the hedge fund billionaires as being in the class of people who have always looked down on him, and will be happy to see them go bust.
We can only hope.
catclub
Until you find out your pension fund is invested with them. Also your insurance company.
Geminid
@Deputinize America: I saw in a Politico article that Louisville, Kentucky Rep. Morgan McGarvey is co-chair of a House Democrat effort to recruit candidates to run against vulnerable Republicans. I remembered how you spoke highly of McGarvey.
One interesting item in report: Pamela Northam, former Virginia Governor Ralph Northam’s wife, has been approached to see if she’ll run against 2nd CD Rep. Jen Kiggans.
Kiggans beat a so-so candidate by around 4% last November. Her Virginia Beach-based district is loaded with federal workers as well as acive and retired military, so a strong candidate could knock her out
stinger
I’ll tell you, one word that I’m permanently removing from my vocabulary is “beautiful”. The convicted felon doesn’t even use it to describe music, or mountains, or faces, or natures. But rather, tariffs and grocery bags, for dog’s sake.
catclub
The thing to ask oneself ( and I do, regularly) is: What is my time horizon compared with all those people in the markets who are selling,… or buying?
If it is a few years, you are not happy. If it is many years you can wait and hope
for recovery in the out years. This implies faith in the United States overall economic system. Betting against that has been a bad bet over the past 90 or so years.
If it is many, many years, we are all dead anyway. Cheers!
Geminid
@p.a.: You know the warning about sporks: “You could put an eye out!”
Chief Oshkosh
@Sanjeevs: It would be great if the MAGAts ever figured out what Ackman and Diamond are all about. They might end up with broken legs, tossed in a bag together, and dumped in the river.
But, they’ll never figure it out.
Baud
@stinger:
How will you describe me then?
Shalimar
The only positive thing I can think of to say is that I hope 1,384 more days of Trump cures our financial betters of their preference for Republicans over Democrats forever.
edit: all they had to do was what they did in Trump’s first term, coast on the economy they were left, extend and expand the tax cuts to cause a little bit of pain while helping our beleaguered billionaires, while blaming anything bad on Democrats. Republican voters already thought the economy was much worse under Biden than it actually was. Partisan division in this country would have continued like it has been and everyone would have been a little unhappy but at least still housed and fed.
Instead, Trump lit the whole thing on fire as blatantly as he could, basically saying over and over “hey, isn’t this a beautiful fucking fire I am setting for you?”
catclub
@Baud: pantsless
Baud
@Shalimar:
So did Democratic voters.
Baud
@catclub:
All the more need for “beautiful.”
Deputinize America
@Chief Oshkosh:
Just like the German finance boys, “we can control him” was the conceit that wrought ruin.
Shalimar
@Baud: Excellent point. It’s like most people wanted to forget the pandemic so much that they stopped thinking about how bad it got compared to how much better 2024 was. Like it got better by accident or would have gotten better at all if Trump won in 2020.
tsquared2001
@stinger: Me too! And the thumbs up gesture – that fucker has ruined that for me.
linnen
The mask slipped as Ackman also is quoted defining business as a confidence game.
lowtechcyclist
Sounds like a plan! Now I’m wanting breakfast at the Dream Weaver in Prince Frederick. But no way I’m going out into this rain if I don’t have to.
BellyCat
Not surprisingly, Google News seems bereft of reporting on the protests this weekend.
Jeffro
@linnen: I saw that. Oddly enough, he followed it up with “confidence requires trust”.
I was like, “dude, I don’t think you know what ‘confidence game’ actually means, do you?”
lowtechcyclist
@catclub:
Why would a pension fund invest more than a small fraction in a hedge fund? It’s supposed to be a hedge against broad-based risks to a typical portfolio (e.g. inflation), not the main menu.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊 😊 😊
lowtechcyclist
@stinger:
And can’t forget phone calls.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
lowtechcyclist
@rikyrah:
Good morning!
ColoradoGuy
Tesla has been stupendously overvalued (at least 15X), but there’s plenty of other bubbles that need deflating, like crypto anything, which was always worthless. It was driven by trillions of oligarch money with nowhere better to go than these absurd John Galt fantasies.
Ksmiami
@lowtechcyclist: ha ha ha. Most pension fund administrators hire consultants who are wined and dined by hedge funds who then win huge amounts of capital allocated to said hedge funds who where they mostly under perform the S&P and charge huge fees while delivering very little to the actual retirees. It’s been one of the biggest scams ever and gets very little coverage. Meanwhile the pension fund administrators get some good dinners out. Anyway, as a finance adjacent person, I hope this clarifies the issue…
ColoradoGuy
@lowtechcyclist: I hate to tell you this, but hedge funds are anything but. They are ultra high risk vehicles for the super rich who don’t give a shit … and this includes things like the notorious Harvard endowment fund. These are the high rollers of the financial world … Saudi princes, Russian oligarchs, international crime lords, etc. The folks you meet in Monaco and Zurich.
Jeffro
I like to think I’m not completely naive, but Fox News’ top two stories today?
“trump digs in ahead of trade meeting – says America’s done with bad deals”
“what Americans could pay now – and how trump says it’ll bring back billions later”
ooooooookay
Who will explain it to the cult when everything costs 2x, 3x, 10x as much as it used to?
Librettist
Captain Cray-Cray has chained himself to the mast, and the crew is realizing they’re going down with the ship.
lowtechcyclist
@Jeffro:
It’ll all be Biden’s fault. They’ll come up with some bullshit about how the economy under Biden was artificially pumped up and was unsustainable and a crash was coming, just a question of when.
Damn, I could write their stuff myself. Wonder if I could get a job there while being a left-wing mole.
Librettist
Bondi went wobbly on a third term, so figure the remainder of her tenure is measured in months, and what’s his name at Treasury wants out.
WTFGhost
@lowtechcyclist: It could be that the pension fund has made loans, with security, to hedge funds, and that, on the whole, the investments are safe, “unless seven or eight hedge funds all crash at the same time, ha ha!” which is what caused the 2008 crisis. It wasn’t so much that everyone was affected – it was that everyone was afraid everyone else was affected, and might start making margin calls and other bank-run inducing actions.
If those margin calls can’t be met, or, if there’s fear they can’t be met, that’s when people start withdrawing funds, in hopes of getting their funds out, screw the other customers, which, hey, that’s what causes bank runs, and, not all “banking” is done via banks, so a “bank run” could wipe out liquidity in an insurance company, even though its pension investments were prudent.
So the insurance company running the pension investments could be taken down by risk contagion, in the event of another liquidity crisis. But you’re right: directly, investments in hedge funds should be a very small percentage of a pension’s investment fund, just a “prudent expert’s” best estimate of the need to game out strange potential risks.
stinger
@Baud: Pantsless?
ETA: Aw, catclub beat me to it. What happens when I stop for breakfast.
Librettist
@lowtechcyclist:
The dipshit was still blaming the Clinton’s, presumably that’s the Rush brain rot. Fox keeps trying to float Obama, but for whatever reasons he (and the Biden’s) don’t get the same traction.
Spanky
RIP Dennis:
stinger
@lowtechcyclist:
I knew I was missing one!
ColoradoGuy
@WTFGhost: I see signs of that happening. The small pullback in gold prices is a hint that some of the high rollers are needing to meet margin calls. Even short sellers get it wrong some times.
Spanky
Well, it’s enough past 8:00 that I expect Betty will drop in shortly with her mouth full of bacon.
Or maybe sausage.
Jeffro
recommended reading: Black Americans are not surprised
dww44
@VeniceRiley: I can’t upvote your last sentence enough!
randy khan
Ackman is right about the idea that you announce tariffs and then have a window before they go into effect to negotiate. That absolutely is what a rational leader would do. But a rational leader would not have announced these particular tariffs at all.
Trivia Man
@Geminid: I wish id put more into bonds. Im in one of those targeted funds that changes mix the closer you get to retirement. Just a few more years so bad time for a crash.
TS
The confidence is destroyed. Australia has an election in May. I have asked both my candidates if they are going to allow our independent country to be dictated to by a man who is currently leading the world down the path to economic chaos & disaster.
@Lord Fartdaddy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
In 2008, we had governments willing to revert to Keynesian economics (which Thatcher & Reagan killed) to rebuild major industry & provide support to people who needed same – this allowed economies to be rebuilt within a relatively short period. This will not happen with trump – unless he is impeached and removed, so your thoughts of a world wide depression are an outcome that may well happen.
danielx
But golf is IMPORTANT.
I heard he was so notorious for kicking balls onto the green the caddies at one golf club named him Pele.
BellyCat
@Jeffro: Powerful stuff from Dr. Christina Greer. Thanks for sharing.
And…. The FTFNYT on a Redemption Tour ™ ?
dww44
@Sanjeevs: I’ve not one gram of respect for anything Jamie Dimon utters. Nor for the man himself. I’ve been supremely disappointed with him. Actually I’m more angry than disappointed with these anti democracy billionaires. But he deserves special scorn.
Eolirin
@TS: I’m not sure that it’ll end with a world wide depression. But the US will be in one if Republicans fail to stand up against economic suicide.
There will be pain from the loss of the US market, but I’m not sure how severe the end result of that will be or how long it’ll take for other nations to recover. There are other markets. Other nations won’t be constrained from taking Kenseyian responses. There’ll need to be a shift in production and supply chains to compensate, and that dislocation will be temporarily disruptive, but it’s potentially manageable.
What’ll exist if the rest of the world successfully navigates that transistion will be a global economy that doesn’t need the US though. And we won’t really recover from that even if we right the ship eventually.
Betty
@TS: Someone on social media did a post on the impeachment succession list. The least scary option is Chuck Grassley. The least scary!
catclub
@TS: relevant once again: https://thereformedbroker.com/2016/12/13/every-unified-republican-government-ever-has-led-to-a-financial-crash/
Splitting Image
The new Downfall meme is up. You knew there would have to be one.
lowtechcyclist
@Ksmiami:
Wow, thanks for the education.
All I can say is, I’m glad the federal Thrift Savings Plan lets me decide my own investment mix among a number of funds (e.g. Treasuries, S&P index), none of which are hedge funds.
Suzanne
For those of y’all who are smart and thus not Very Online, that TikTok video of the Australian women at the skincare company doing their silly dance in the office is going viral again. This time, retweeted by a user who wrote, “Tariffs or this? Tariffs.”
It is shocking how much support the FFOTUS is getting from men who simply hate women and want to drive women from the workplace.
TS
@BellyCat:
Ezra Klein in the Times, has published a video of Paul Klugman – who left the FTFNYT because they censored his speech. Wonder if they paid Klugman for his words.
Betty Cracker
Come to mama!
Ohio Mom
@tsquared2001: If we can’t thumbs up because Trump ruined that for us, and we can’t make an “okay” sign because it looks too much like the white power sign, what is left for signaling “Yes” or “Good Job” or “Thank you for letting me merge in”? Maybe a raised fist?
lowtechcyclist
@danielx:
Fiddlingplaying golf whileRomethe U.S. economy burns.Maybe we should start calling him
NeroZero.lowtechcyclist
@Betty Cracker:
:D
Enjoy your breakfast!
Suzanne
LOL.
catclub
@TS:
He also did a great job in The Odd Couple.
Matt McIrvin
@Ohio Mom: Wave, but do it like the late Queen Elizabeth II.
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne: Translation: “hee-yuck, hee-yuck, gonna hit myself in the head with a hammer”
Caint fix stupid sometimes.
TS
@Eolirin:
Given that virtually every economy echoes what happens in the US at the minute, that is going to be a long road to success. Most world share markets go up and down with the US regardless of the home grown pundits trying to say otherwise.
@Suzanne:
Given this reality it may be possible to see an economic solution for much of the world that excludes the USA. We had a PM in the 1990s that tried to align Australia as much as possible with our closer neighbors in Asia, but defense was always seen as coming from the UK and then (after WWII) the USA. This is another place where major change is coming.
terraformer
As a lover of grits and a FL transplant to WI, I am discouraged that I cannot find grits *anywhere* up here. This cannot stand (in fact, it has for over 2 decades alas)
Scout211
@Spanky: I read that earlier this morning. That show was a favorite in our household. My first thought was, wow he was old. Then (looking in the mirror), oh yeah, same age.
Boomers. Huh.
Matt McIrvin
@TS: While the US wasn’t Keynesian enough then (we still cut government employment), we actually did better than a lot of European governments that initially responded to the recession with austerity measures. I expect it to be the other way around this time just because Trump will serve as a negative example.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@Jeffro: so what about all the black & Hispanic men who voted for Trump?
Professor Bigfoot
Sister, I’m sitting here with a cup of most excellent coffee and it’s STILL a massive shitstorm.
And as I’ve said to myself every damn day since January 20th, “<sigh>, oh well. It is what it is. This is what Americans* voted for,” and continue to work on figuring out how to survive it.
Belafon
@catclub: Trump is going to become the Republican Jimmy Carter presidency.
different-church-lady
I HOPE YOU’RE ENJOYING YOUR CHEAP EGGS, YOU BUNCH OF DUMB FUCKS!
Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin: Can’t fix stupid, but would love to figure out how to limit its damage!
Cartoons Hate Her: You Will Own Nothing, Except The Libs
Belafon
@sentient ai from the future: Trump believes that your choices are tariffs or taxing the rich.
different-church-lady
@Doug: The leopards are starting to eye the other leopards warily.
Scout211
Smoot-Hawley enters the chat.
YY_Sima Qian
Now that Iran’s “Axis of Resistance” is in shambles, Israel seems bent on establishing a regional imperium, unconstrained by concepts of international law, sovereignty, international humanitarian law, & laws of armed conflict:
Israel will never be “safe” if it keeps expanding the territory it controls (& possibly placing Jewish settlers in harm’s way in these newly seized territories) & make fresh enemies among its neighbors. That has been the history of every imperial creep ever. Of course, for Bibi, that is entirely the point.
lowtechcyclist
@Chacal Charles Calthrop:
First of all, they’re still a pretty small group compared to all the white men who voted for Trump. Not to mention, MOST Black and Hispanic men still voted for Harris.
But if you’re looking for an explanation, my best guess is:
@Suzanne:
Most of those men are white, but far from all of them, I’m sure.
You’d think that after half a century of women in the workplace (and not just as secretaries, receptionists, and the like), men would have gotten used to it and accepted it by now. And maybe, y’know, would’ve even come to enjoy the company of intelligent and capable women. That so many clearly haven’t is truly depressing.
Another Scott
@ColoradoGuy: I’m reminded that there have been more than a few times when the radio has said that the morning futures are up or down a lot and by the end of the day the market averages have moved substantially in the other direction.
Market timing is a mug’s game. And the folks in the media don’t care which way the market moves, they care about getting people to tune in. If people are panicking about the market moving down, they push the panic. If people are panicking about the market moving up, they push the panic. It’s what they do.
To be clear, I have no idea what the immediate future holds any more than anyone else. I feel, though, that the mask is slipping on 47 for the normies and the big money people and he is losing power by the day. We have to keep working to lessen that power and vote the monsters out.
Eyes on the prizes.
Best wishes,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker: I estimate I lost about 16 dollars on Friday.
zhena gogolia
@Jeffro: Very good piece.
zhena gogolia
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: If you read the piece you will see this tired talking point dealt with.
catclub
@Belafon:
I do not approve of presidents that destroy the economy. However, in terms of elections, IF you are going to damage the economy, do it as early in your term as possible. The voters 3 years later might only remember the recovery.
Melancholy Jaques
@Shalimar:
That will never happen. Watch as the twist themselves into granny knots as they make accommodation with Trump. They hate Democrats because we want to tax them to do crazy socialist things like make sure children get food & medical care. That is never going to change.
M31
@Betty Cracker: oh yeah, nothing better than a really heavy diner cup when you really need it
catclub
@different-church-lady: lol
Glidwrith
@ColoradoGuy: I think one of the billionaires plans, besides the tax break, is to merge crypto with the US treasury and therefore get bailed out because they are flat broke from those investments and over leveraged.
different-church-lady
@lowtechcyclist: For the love of god can we please stop arguing about which group is responsible for Trump? Trump voters are responsible for Trump, and I don’t give a shit what color the eggs and ham were.
Melancholy Jaques
@Jeffro:
It’s not just that things will cost more. Many things just won’t be available.
catclub
@Melancholy Jaques: I agree with most of that. But never is a long time. California was a GOP stronghold up until the 1990’s.
different-church-lady
@Jeffro: “And then they came for me, and I said, ‘HEY, WHAT THE FUCK? YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO COME FOR THEM!!!'”
Scout211
@different-church-lady: Upvote!
Thank you.
Melancholy Jaques
@lowtechcyclist:
Exactly. When Clinton’s tax increases, plus the growing economy produced a federal surplus, they all claimed it was because of something Ronald Reagan did.
The 2008 financial collapse was because of something Jimmy Carter did.
And their voters believe it because it fits the narrative they were raised in. Very hard to overcome that.
dc
@Princess: They shouldn’t be an easy thing for him to do, as Congress has this power not the Executive. Of course, they have to take that power back. Finally the only emergency this country is in is caused by the Asshole and Company.
TS
Krugman says the uncertainty is the main issue that will lead to a recession. His economics is established and factual
I assume this is available to all because I do not have a FTFNYT sub.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/05/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-paul-krugman.html
Timill
@terraformer: There are five Cracker Barrels in Wisconsin.
I’m not seeing the problem…
different-church-lady
@Betty: That’s like picking the least wet ocean.
different-church-lady
@TS: Kinda neat the way Ezra snuck Paul in the back door for a visit.
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: Then you didn’t read the op-ed.
lowtechcyclist
@different-church-lady:
You’re right, we shouldn’t bother to correct bullshit like that. Just leave it sit there and not respond to it. /s
Spanky
@different-church-lady: I congratulate you on having moved your millions to cash.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: You’re right; my outburst is more of a hangover from previous threads.
ADDITION: 1) Actually, I kinda did read it, and mostly agree with where it’s coming from. 2) Not just a previous thread, but a certain someone from a previous thread.
YY_Sima Qian
Editorial from the official CPC regime mouthpiece People’s Daily on Trumpian global trade war, we can consider it the authoritative articulation of the views of Xi Jinping & the CPC leadership:
Glenn Luk translated the CPC bureaucratese into plain English, & then layman speak a la “Luther” (long thread well worth reading):
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist:
While I want to be absolutely clear that racism is absolutely one of the most determinative and disgusting influences on our elections…. I will once again point out that there is a gender gap in the voting behavior among every racial demographic. So misogyny is by no means just a white man’s game. It has nationwide, worldwide appeal.
And, of course, the women-in-the-workplace thing is not just about men having to interact with women — and thus modify their behavior — while working. The office, the jobsite, the factory floor, the restaurant kitchen have had behavioral norms shifted, yes. But it is also, and probably more importantly, about the change in social and familial structure that career development and financial autonomy has given women. It’s almost a degrowth agenda for shitty men.
catothedog
@Deputinize America:
And the American Catholic Church. They learned nothing.
Don’t forget them – denied Biden and Pelosi communion and made the Democratic Party toxic to believers, and described Trump’s election as the moral awakening of America
Melancholy Jaques
@Chacal Charles Calthrop:
When I hear “Trump made gains with black & Hispanic men” I interpret that to mean “some black & Hispanic men will just not vote for a woman for president.” Prove me wrong.
catclub
I think it was Ralph’s Pretty Good grocery motto that
“If you can’t find it at Ralph’s, you can probably get along without it.”
different-church-lady
I see Dumbfuck Hitler is now begging us to be strong. Sad.
Loquacious Scribble
GO GATORS!!
Loquacious Scribble
@Melancholy Jaques:
Not wrong, but lacking context.
Some men will just not vote for a woman for president: black and Hispanic men are no different
FTFY
Spanky
@Suzanne:
“Almost”? Evidence suggests it’s under way.
Belafon
@TS: Krugman.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
Truth. If a woman can support her own self, she doesn’t have to marry some asshole just to survive. (And if she marries one before realizing her mistake, she can walk right out the door.) And a lot of asshole men still haven’t adjusted to this reality after all these years.
Including plenty of them who’ve grown up in this reality, which is the part that boggles my mind.
catclub
CNN:
My headline: Bill Ackman is so stupid he took 8 years to NOT figure out Trump is bad for the economy.
Suzanne
@Loquacious Scribble: Also, some men will always vote for patriarchy, and men of every color are no different.
different-church-lady
@Lord Fartdaddy (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
With Denmark flying their flag over the capitol.
bluefoot
@Jeffro: I can’t read the column since I don’t have a NYT subscription. Who’s the author?
also: 100% what they say in your quoted part. I’ve been saying this forever but even my nice white liberal friends haven’t wanted to even have the conversation, much less look it in the face. And so here we are. Even now most people are more concerned with their portfolios than justice or treating others with humanity.
catothedog
@Jeffro:
The irony of this article in FNYT – the media entity that did the most to elect and enable Trump.
There is no difference between the whoring FNYT and Fox when it comes to supporting white racism
Don’t give them clicks. Do not support enablers of Trump. Tie them all to white racism.
Belafon
@catclub: Like Hoover, right? I mean, he didn’t necessarily cause it, but he definitely didn’t help it recover.
catclub
@different-church-lady: No love for the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.
Belafon
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: They suck, but they are a smaller percentage of a small percentage of the population. Us whites own this.
Scout211
On SNL Saturday: It’s not MAGA anymore. It’s now MAGDA.
Make America Depression Again.
YY_Sima Qian
If you thought massive tariffs on goods are disruptive, wait until Trump starts to tax capital flows (gift link to FT article below):
Ceci7
@Suzanne: I was chatting with a local member of the Young Democrats of America and he told me in our area the biggest swing towards Trump was young men in the precincts that overlay the Tufts and Harvard campuses.
BC in Illinois
Stocks open.
Dow down 1,283.83 (3.35%) at 37,031.
And a new week starts.
lowtechcyclist
@catothedog:
“Fuck tribalism. Fuck othering.” – Jesus
Aside from the use of the word ‘fuck,’ that’s a core part of Jesus’ message. Any alleged Christian who’d describe electing Trump as a moral awakening must’ve fed their New Testament through a wood chipper.
different-church-lady
@BC in Illinois: WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Spanky
@BC in Illinois: This week is going to be a helluva year.
different-church-lady
@lowtechcyclist: The New Testament is woke.
lowtechcyclist
@Scout211:
Even before Saturday night, I’d been seeing the Make America Great Depression Again acronym. Makes me feel sorry for Magda in Black, and any other Magda’s out there.
Spanky
@lowtechcyclist: Well, for all we know, later translators may have decided to edit out all the swear words. Jesus just might have sworn like a sailor.
Eta, he probably picked up the habit from all those fishermen.
dww44
@Princess: Read last evening at The GOS that Charles Koch and Leonard leo have teamed up and formed a new PAC to sue Trump over his unconstitutional tariffs. I’m hoping for injuries on this. While the rest of us continue to take to the streets non violently and build resistance, I’m hoping the monied elites will fully turn on Trump and kneecap him … at least slow him down.
different-church-lady
I mean, super honestly, I did not have “You don’t need money” on my 2025 Trump propaganda Bingo card.
Manyakitty
@Steve Holmes: butter and cheese. Yummy.
lowtechcyclist
@BC in Illinois:
The S&P has lost 15% of its value since Wednesday afternoon.
Soprano2
So I’m sitting at the tire shop waiting to see if they can fix my flat tire or if I have to get a new tire. It was fine when I parked at home at 3:00 p.m. on Saturday. When we got in to go to the symphony at 7:00 p.m., the front driver’s side tire was down 8 lbs! It was essentially flat by yesterday morning. Whatever I picked up did a number on my tire.
Suzanne
@Ceci7: There was a rumor going around Xhitter before the election that FFOTUS would end child support payments. It was incredibly upsetting to see how many men believed that.
lowtechcyclist
@different-church-lady:
Yeppers!
Deputinize America
@BC in Illinois:
DOW 36000, baby. Make Kevin Hassett’s prediction come true.
Melancholy Jaques
@TS:
But he’s shrill. And he’s been known to agree with Democrats. So no one in the business world will ever listen to anything he says.
russell
Just chiming in briefly to defend the wisdom and general goodness of Klondike bars for dinner.
And yes, home fries AND grits, sausage AND bacon.
Hope your bloodwork comes back clean and green!
lowtechcyclist
@Spanky:
Brilliant! I’m just rolling with laughter over here.
Geminid
This morning’s Politico Playbook led off with lot of material about the tariffs, but later on they had some miscellaneous political items:
Former Rep. Barbara Lee is running in a special election for Mayor of Oakland. Her principal rival is Loren Taylor, who is running to alee’s right.
Georgia Senator John Ossoff’s reelection campaign raised $11 million in the first quarter of this year.
Virginia Democrats launched a “seven figure” ad campaign directed at legislative races. All 100 House of Delegates seats are up for election this year, with the current House 51D, 49R.. The 40 Senators will be up in 2027.
Neither of Lt. Winsome Earl-Sears’ rivals for the Republican governor nomination could obtain the required 10,000 signatures to get on the primary ballot, so the fall governor race is set: Lt. Governor Winsome Earl-Sears versus former 7th CD Rep. Abigail Spanberger. This ought to be fun.
Spanky
@lowtechcyclist: Now play the scene with the money changers in your head
Eta, dubbing in Samuel L. Jackson’s voice.
Soprano2
@lowtechcyclist: They don’t mind women in the workplace as long as they don’t have to compete with us for jobs. So if we want to be a secretary, a job no man wants, that’s fine. If we want to be an engineer or a doctor or a supervisor, then they don’t want us. We can have the jobs men don’t want to do, but nothing else.
Betty Cracker
lowtechcyclist
@different-church-lady:
I guess ‘groceries’ is a beautiful word, but wanting the money to buy them, OTOH, means they’ve been deluded by liberal propaganda or something.
Anyway
Fuck Bill Ackman — he’s one of the prime drivers against the Penn and Columbia univ presidents — all female of course. He continued with a determined push against Biden and Harris.
Fuck Jamie Dimon— he’s hated Ds since the days of Obama. It’s not just white supremacy that Ds have to fight against. Big Finance, big Capital hate Dems and they have a lot of clout. All textbook, theoretical analysis of the economy that does not take that into account are meaningless.
artem1s
so tariffs fixing the trade deficit are going to become the new infrastructure week.
you know, it just occurred to me that Orangemandius probably thinks the trade deficit and the US deficit (and raising the debt ceiling) are the same thing. whoever was arguing over the weekend that he is SMRT and actually has above average intelligence is mistaking a sociopath trying to mimic what’s he’s heard others say around him. The inability to discern nuances is not just a lack of education it screams ‘lacks comprehensive reading and/or reasoning skills’. Or as Milley put it, he’s a fucking idiot.
Melancholy Jaques
@Loquacious Scribble:
I provided the context.
A Ghost to Most
People worried about a worldwide depression need to include the possibility of a worldwide war.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: I’m so old I was told at my first full- time job that women couldn’t go on the factory floor because we were “too distracting”. My reply to that was that if a guy cut off his hand because he was looking at my butt that was his problem, not mine.
Suzanne
@Soprano2: Not exactly right. These clowns don’t want women to have any job that pays enough to be able to be financially independent. They degrade them as unproductive “email jobs”; HR is the emblematic one.
In this fantasy, the tariff regime wipes out email jobs and brings back a manufacturing renaissance. I will note that men who want to work in manufacturing or construction…. absolutely can go do that.
Belafon
CNBC would like to finally let you know whose fault this is: Dow drops 1,300 points, S&P 500 enters bear territory on Trump tariff market collapse
artem1s
@Jeffg166:
The collapse of Lehman’s started W’s Great Recession. I doubt TCF will bail them out. First the House would have to pass a bailout bill. And they’d need it to be recession proof. But more important, the plan is to default on the national debt and kill the Federal Reserve. Jamie’s not getting his big bonus this time around. He’ll be lucky if his board only fires him.
TS
@Belafon:
I really need a spelling correction at this point in time as I watch my retirement income disappear into the mist of time, with thanks to the man who thinks tariffs are the answer to life, the universe and everything.
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
The thing is, men have had to compete with women for jobs for decades now. My sister got her first civil engineering job in 1976, fercryinoutloud. In Waynesboro, Virginia. Colleges have been giving more bachelors’ degrees to women than men since the 1980s, IIRC, and right now women are earning about 60% of the bachelor’s degrees.
Too many men just aren’t up for the competition, which I guess is why they want to go back to a world where they didn’t have to.
TS
Markets are heading into green territory – buying the dip – or what else is happening?
artem1s
@artem1s:
And they’d need it to be
recessionproof.oops meant veto proof
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
They have no idea what’s coming if Trump is not stopped. It’s not real to them yet, so they support him
YY_Sima Qian
Utter & total incoherence in US foreign policy under Trump (although not limited to Trump):
Doubly fun if all of these activity is for the US to join in Bibi’s strikes against Iran.
Should that happen, I think Xi will truly be convinced that he has the Mandate of Heaven & anointed by Fate to lead the PRC through “great changes unseen in a century” & seize every opportunity that arises.
Belafon
@TS: I didn’t know you were the kind of person who couldn’t take a simple suggestion on how to spell a name properly. Seems like a big effort for you to write up a post on something this simple. I too am watching things fall apart, surrounded by people in the meat space who think this is all going to be great, so my stress isn’t exactly normal, but I certainly didn’t expect a blow up because of pointing out you’re spelling someone’s name wrong. So I will not correct you again in the future.
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist: Again, it’s not just competing with women for jobs. These psychos have deluded themselves into thinking that, basically, women have fooled companies into letting them have high-paying, easy jobs that don’t return value. Think marketing, public relations, accounting, HR. And then, the thinking goes, these women get ahead of themselves and won’t settle for them.
This is, of course, ludicrous.
Melancholy Jaques
@TS:
For the most part, if you watch the market closely & try to figure out why it goes up & down, you will eventually lose your mind. This is a rare case where everyone in the world knows exactly why, but no one is sure what to do about it.
A very large percentage of trading is done by algorithms, which I only barely understand.
Hoodie
@lowtechcyclist: Had a weird conversation with a neighbor about this recently. He’s a smart guy, PhD in geographical sciences (GIS stuff) and works for a big NGO. He claimed colleges are hostile to males. JFC, think of the decades of shit that women had to put up with in colleges, and these fucking whiners can’t survive a gender studies class.
lowtechcyclist
@artem1s:
Can they tar and feather him too? :D
Wag
@Jackie: Truth. Black coffee without sugar is okay before fasting lab work.
jonas
@Matt McIrvin: Who was the standup comedian who has the bit about “You’ll just never outsmart everyone. Can’t do it. But you can outdumb them…” ?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@lowtechcyclist:
I mean, it doesn’t help that college education costs an arm and a leg nowadays. It used to be that it was much cheaper, even when accounting for inflation. Not everyone is cut out for college either. Surely everyone deserve a job that pays a living wage regardless of their education level, right?
cintibud
Sharp rebound in the markets. S&P up almost 1.5%
Did T—p die?
Geminid
@Geminid: I also read that Rumeysa Ozturk’s attorneys will argue her case in a Vermont federal court today. ICE agents snatched Ms. Osturk, a Tufts graduate student from Turkiye, off a Massachusetts street ~10 days ago.
Ozturk is in a Louisiana prison right now. Federal prosecutors wanted her case heard there, but her attorneys successfully argued that since their first motion for relief was filed while she was in Vermont, that’s where her case must be heard.
A Politico Playbook item said this is the first of several cases involving detained foreign students that will be heard this week. It also linked to a Politico article by Myra Ward and Ira Sentnor which says this deportation campaign “closely mirrors” a Heritage Foundation initiative unveiled last fall. Heritage called it the “Esther Initiative,” but the Haman Initiative would have been more accurate.
Baud
@Hoodie:
They probably are more hostile than in the glory days when that guy was in college.
What’s that saying: To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.
Belafon
@TS: And now it’s negative again.
Suzanne
I’m sure they’re trying to come up with a way to blame this on DEI.
MagdaInBlack
@lowtechcyclist: If it helps the cause, I’ll deal with it.
The Thin Black Duke
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: Stop this fucking bullshit.
Baud
jonas
There’s a lot of content out there by various Andrew Tate wannabes claiming that colleges lock men up and throw away the key if they so much as glance at a female student wrong, so best to steer clear and subscribe to his substack about the best red light districts in Asia. A lot of them take bitcoin, you know.
Cheryl from Maryland
@different-church-lady: I would welcome Danish overlords.
Baud
@Cheryl from Maryland:
I’d settle for a Danish at this point.
Suzanne
Apparently Hassett is now saying that there’s gonna be a 90-day pause on all tariffs except for China’s, and the market is responding positively.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Ah, thank you.
ETA: I’m happy for the penguins. They really rely on the US import market.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Baud: try the cheesecake. Live a little.
Spanky
@Suzanne: Queue trump putting out a post countermanding that in 3…2…1…
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
Only after destroying trillions in value in the stock and bond markets. Oh, and our global reputation as a trading partner.
Are those Stellantis jobs going to come back, Hassett?
ETA: These financial people are so stupid. How do we know Trump won’t just reverse himself, assuming he’s behind this, tomorrow?
Suzanne
This whole thing is so fucked. Running the world economy like a ping-pong game for the lulz.
Redshift
@terraformer: A comedian I saw once said he knew he wasn’t in the South when he went into a diner and asked if they served grits and the waitress answered “mister, we have to serve everybody.”
MagdaInBlack
@Suzanne: I was gonna say roller coaster, but ping-pong is better.
jonas
@danielx: Whole books have been written on Trump’s cheating at golf. He’s absolutely notorious.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@MagdaInBlack:
And we’re the ping-pong ball
Belafon
@Suzanne: So, other countries get 90 more days to less painfully separate themselves from our economy.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
Maybe not HR, but my recollection is that men didn’t have a problem with marketing, PR, and accounting being highly-paid occupations when they were dominated by men. Guess they’re upset that women finally got in on their con. /s
It is, indeed. Women didn’t get ahead of themselves, they’re out there doing real work in real careers, and too many men just aren’t keeping up.
And yeah, successful women aren’t going to settle for slackers – that part is true. Or assholes. Moral: men, don’t be slackers or assholes if you want to get laid.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@lowtechcyclist:
What do you consider “real work” and a “real career”?
Scout211
@lowtechcyclist: And thank you for the subtle, but welcome correction. I left out the G word in the comment and by the time I noticed it, it was way too late to correct it.
Make America Great Depression Again.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: A lot of them hate HR because it keeps them from firing people just because they don’t like them. It also enforces the anti-harassment rules.
Those men think every woman making good money is a DEI hire. I’m sure if those jobs were done by men they would be essential.
jonas
@different-church-lady: Cheap where? *If* there are any in stock, they’re still $7-8/doz at my local market. Per the MSM’s hard and fast rule on Where the Blame For High Prices Lies™ this is all on Trump.
TS
@Belafon:
Indeed – Tesla must have had a big buy but it’s heading back down again – Musk has not been in the news more recently, heading out of favour?
Betty Cracker
@Suzanne: From CNBC:
lulz!
TS
@Betty Cracker:
Thanks – therein was probably the reason for the market up/down
MagdaInBlack
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I’ve never before had sympathy for the poor ping-pong ball. Now I do.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Soprano2:
I’ll never understand this mindset. It’s just pure jealously and the people these kinds of men will ally themselves to do not have their best interests in mind. Like, imagine believing billionaires will help make your life better
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Betty Cracker:
Oh fuck
lowtechcyclist
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Let’s see: my dentist is a woman. My veterinarian is a woman. My optometrist is a woman. My optician is a woman. My primary care person is a woman. I used to work at the Census Bureau, a statistician among statisticians. A whole bunch of them were women. You get the idea. I’d consider all of these to be real work, and real careers.
Suzanne
@Soprano2: Oh yes. HR is the Platonic Big Bad in the company, because it keeps them from harassing people. It’s part of the #MeToo and “cancel culture” backlash.
YY_Sima Qian
@Suzanne: Somebody is making a killing from the market volatility through high frequency trading, further armed by insider information.
If only the new tariffs on the PRC are kept, then the PRC retaliation stays in place, while PRC goods continue to route through 3rd countries via transshipment, relabeling & final assembly, just like from when Trump 45 launched the trade war 1.0. There aren’t all that many alternatives to a lot of the PRC’s manufactures, not in the short or even medium terms.
Harrison Wesley
@Geminid: My guess is a discussion of a strike on Iran. Stocks crashing? Hey, look! Over there!
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker: OH FOR FUCK’S SAKE.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@lowtechcyclist:
Nothing wrong with those careers at all or women holding them.
And jobs in the service sector, such as retail?
Librettist
You had to be safely ensconced in the leisure class for mom, grandma etc. not to have worked.
It is the perceived loss of social status. They big mad at lady bosses. And black lady bosses make their brains melt. White America is totally not racist, so there will be some gibberish about that one black colleague/manager. The sexism doesn’t even register – somebody has to wash their skid marked tighty-whities.
They would have gotten stepped over for promotion back in the good old Mad Men days as well, for someone more capable or with better connections.
Scout211
Trump’s social media team are idiots. Or maybe he posted that himself, the idiot.
lowtechcyclist
@Suzanne:
@Spanky:
And sure enough:
@Betty Cracker:
Dow 36,000, here we come!
Suzanne
@lowtechcyclist: THE STUPID AND CRAZY MOVE SO FAST.
Gretchen
@terraformer: Native Michigander here. I’ve never had grits. Do I need to seek them out? They don’t seem that interesting? I don’t know where I’d go to find grits if I decide that I need to seek them out.
Librettist
@Suzanne:
Trump always negotiates with himself. That’s why he is always a loser.
Baud
I’m just glad he doesn’t stutter.
lowtechcyclist
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
My point was that women are successfully competing (and in many areas out-competing) men for good jobs in formerly male-dominated professions.
I’m not sure what retail has to do with that. But feel free to make your point.
Belafon
@Baud: And people who stop and think of the proper thing to say are just losers.
oldgold
Several years ago, I attended a Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting.
Of course, the featured speaker was the Oracle of Omaha, Warren Buffett. That day he spoke about how he prefers to buy “idiot proof” companies, because someday an idiot may be selected to run the company.
Since 2016 we have learned that despite all of Madison’s machinations, our country is not idiot proof.
Melancholy Jaques
@Hoodie:
Can’t speak for your neighbor, but that “hostile to males” phrase requires more detail & evidence. It can mean “no longer hostile to females” or “no longer a boys’ club” or some other not exactly objective measure.
Betty Cracker
@Gretchen: Bill (from Buffalo) is a grits skeptic who says they are bland and tasteless. He is right, but only in the sense that a baked potato with no salt, pepper, sour cream, cheese, bacon bits, etc., is bland and tasteless. That’s why nobody eats them like that! But they are good with that stuff on them! As Steve said at #21, grits are a leading butter carrier (and also cheese, paprika, etc.).
schrodingers_cat
The tariffs nonsense should not be seen in isolation. Trump is trying to destroy brand America and remake it in his own image. The people who blabber constantly about uniparty and heightening the contradictions, who are supposedly on our side but attack elected Ds far more than Rs have got their wish.
He hates trade and trade treaties. He hates post WWII American foreign policy. He hates immigrants. He hates capitalism. He wants to replace it
Tell me how is that different from the tankie wishlist?
Gin & Tonic
@Gretchen: Go to your local hardware store and buy wallpaper paste. It’s basically the same thing.
Suzanne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Of course there’s nothing “wrong” with any of those career paths. The point is that oodles of trash men hate those career paths because they are female-coded now, and are compensated well enough that women are not dependent on men for a living. That is leading to all sort of changes….. marriage is increasingly concentrated among college-educated people, delayed age of first marriage, people having less sex, lower birth rate, concentration of population in urban areas.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@lowtechcyclist:
I suppose my point is that while that may be true, there’s still a lot of men and women who are struggling and being left behind; that no matter what line of work you’re in, you should be paid a living wage.
I work in customer service, so I got a little miffed with the “real work” line. I apologize if I read your comments wrong.
I agree the men you, Suzanne, and others are talking about are pathetic and stupid, that they’d rather tear everybody else down then try to build everyone up. They apparently think men like Elon Musk and Donald Trump, both rich, are their allies, which is obviously bullshit
Timill
@Gretchen:
Cracker Barrel in Michigan
No, not worth the detour.
Spanky
@Betty Cracker: HA! Called it at 232.
Spanky
@Gin & Tonic: To be pedantic (and why not), grits are corn-based and wallpaper paste is wheat-based. Otherwise…
(Btw, my phone substituted “gross” for “grits”.)
frosty
@Gretchen: If you like Cream of Wheat you’ll like grits. I have grits with breakfast when we travel south. They’re good with lots of butter and salt and pepper. But then, what isn’t?
Tenar Arha
@Betty Cracker: I just said “ooooohaahahahaha”
ETA I hope breakfast was delicious!, & that the blood work is fantastic!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
He deserves a bigger tumbrel.
Mick McDick
Klondike bars are for breakfast, dear Betty.
There go two miscreants
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
If your job involves dealing with the public, you are definitely earning your pay! (And I agree with you about the living wage.)
Ksmiami
@lowtechcyclist: save tar and feathering for the GOP congress
Chris T.
@Baud:
Baudiful?
frosty
@Splitting Image: I’ve watched a dozen of these Downfalls. This one was really good.
UncleEbeneezer
@Jeffro: I’m always astonished at how many Americans have no idea that we had mass deportations of Mexicans (estimates as high as 1,000,000 and many of them American citizens) only 100 years ago.
catclub
Of course, Trump saying “I need your money” is front and center.
They Call Me Noni
@Gretchen: If you are grits curious you should get stone ground grits. Those quick cooking ones are really gross. I have to order mine because grocery stores around here don’t sell them. Basically, they are a good carrier for lots and lots of cheese. And butter.
catclub
martinis
Chris T.
@Trivia Man:
Stagflation is coming, and that’s bad for bonds too. Short version is there’s nowhere to hide.
munira
@different-church-lady: Amen – this is getting tiresome.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
I’m sure he can but 2+2=5 is hardly upper level mathematics.
karen gail
@Gretchen: I spent most of my life in Wisconsin so didn’t taste grits until a trip to Texas as a teenager; have never ordered them again. I still say they smell like the mash I fed my chickens.
karen gail
I spent 30 years as a rural housewife; all the time I had people asking me when I was going to get a “real” job. I raised and butchered the chicken, lamb they ate at my table. I had a large enough garden that I not only put enough vegetables away for the next year or two but shared with in laws and anyone willing to pick for themselves. The men hunted so I butchered and preserved wild game; Thanksgiving turkey dinner was usually wild turkey or Canada goose. I had fruit trees and berry bushes so wine, meade and jams were in basement ready for eating; yet was told needed a “real” job.
I took classes so I was the one to deal with insurance, medical bills (step-daughter had CF) and companies when had problems that needed to hire repair people. I “worked” hard to repair credit reputation ex had failed to build by paying bills only after pasted due notices. Yet, I was told I didn’t have a “real” job.
So many of these “working white men” are proud that they can support their families without “little wifie having to work.” They never stop to think about how many people they would have to hire to do what she does; yet, she is told by everyone she doesn’t have a “real” job.
bluefoot
@karen gail: Amen to this. Women do a hell of a lot of “silent” work that isn’t recognized or compensated. It would take A LOT of money to hire people to do the work that stay at home parents do. Hell, just look at the cost of daycare, and that’s only from the hours of 8-5.
Ruckus
@lowtechcyclist:
Some men do not appreciate equality. Because that gives rise to much more competition in the work side of things, you know the check at the end of the week/month stuff. They endorse the concept that females cannot do what men can do, in which of course they are wrong. Sure if it’s lifting weights the possibility is that they might win, but it’s no guarantee. But in most jobs, besides weight lifting (and even there competition is possible) in the modern world woman can do most every job equal to men. And sometimes better. Sure many jobs take training but what job requires Herculean strength? Lifting weights? I worked in machine shops most of my working life, but there is zero reason that woman could not do that job. Just because they rarely got the chance or rarely wanted to seems to me to be the only reason. My primary doctor at the VA is a woman and she is quite good at it.
Ruckus
@karen gail:
I believe (being a male, and as stated above) that many men seem to need the placeholder (can’t think of a better word) of being manly. I don’t get the concept – and I’ve been a male my entire 3/4 of a century. Many seem to feel they need to justify their existence as the stronger side of life. And I’ve known woman that make most men seem or actually are weak in comparison. I don’t get male pompous arrogance. It doesn’t do anything positive for anyone, including them. And it often moves them farther away from having a rational, actual relationship with a woman. Seems rather stupid….
bluefoot
@Ruckus: I’ve never understood that. I mean, if you’re a man, by definition anything you do is manly. Why let others define who you are? Perhaps I can’t understand it because I’m a mixed race woman, which has meant chasing after external validation is a fool’s game, but still…
Juju
@Suzanne: Is that so we can start this stupid dance again in 90 days? If that’s the case, I hope for that stroke the cheetoh dusted Wharton graduate who can’t define what a tariff is, so richly deserves. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Juju
@Betty Cracker: That seems about right, but the moron who is President still doesn’t knows how a tariff actually works.
karen gail
@Ruckus: I had one man tell me that women don’t deal with pain; I would challenge any man to endure the pain so many women go through monthly or when they give birth. I remember watching something where a male and his female other were hooked up to pain simulators; she was the one to control the level of pain that she endured monthly. So many guys bailed, were curled up in pain from just what average female deals with each month. No one was willing to try the pain levels offered for experience of “giving birth.” Yet, women are called weak while being expected to continue with day to day activities while dealing with monthly pain or being sick.
Doc Sardonic
@Gin & Tonic: No, that is the substitute for Cream of wheat or Farina.
Doc Sardonic
@karen gail: You left out some jobs…. You forgot to include Primary Care Physician, Psychiatrist, and a few more advanced degree requiring jobs. If I were to put a salary value on housewife, 100k would be “entry” salary.
Percysowner
wrong thread
Ruckus
@bluefoot:
That’s my point – what the hell is the point of all the bullshit? If it ever changes anything it seems to me it makes it worse rather than better.
@karen gail:
Exactly my point. But my perspective is from the opposite direction.
Now to say I don’t know pain, I was once hit head on, by my neighbor in his pickup, after a coyote ran out in front of my motorcycle – on the street I lived on. Hit not my motorcycle, ME. Fortunately neither of us was going at more than very slow so it was more fun than pain, but it wasn’t a lot of fun. I also pulled a back muscle once at work, about a zillion years ago and for those zillion years I’ve lived with lower back pain. Seen a number of docs over the decades and they all say there is nothing to fix. But I still have back pain. Must be a nerve damaged rather than muscle. I believe they still don’t fix those….
So women don’t deal with pain.
H’mmm, that man is a complete and utter moron. Has he never actually known a woman? I’ve known a few and most of them had kids. And even brand new infants are bigger than the exit port they come out of. A fair bit bigger. All the woman I’ve known liked the results of the birth but the actual birth process? They put up with it because of the result, as far as I can tell from the women I’ve known that had kids. And a side note, a man wants 8-10 kids? H’mmm, that man is a complete and utter moron.
Ruckus
@Juju:
Does he actually KNOW how anything works?
His IQ is supposedly above average but the crap he has stuffed in said brain does not support that it is much above moron. So another brain that belongs in the complete waste pile.
Juju
@Ruckus: He graduated from Wharton with a degree in economics. In theory he should have an idea of how a tariff works, but you have a valid point.
Elizabelle
@karen gail: Amen.
Terraformer
@Gretchen: it’s likely an acquired taste to most. Many think it’s just of bowl of vaguely corn-like tastes. But I grew up with them, and no, Cracker Barrel definitely *does not* count
karen gail
@Doc Sardonic: Yeah, also since I had animals should probably include veterinarian and a few others that tie to organic gardening and basic home repairs; like fixing water pipes which were easier after remodel and they were pvc.
karen gail
@Ruckus: One reason we women have more than one child willingly is because our bodies produce chemicals that blunt the memory of that level of pain until the next time we are in middle of giving birth. Then there are some women who don’t have much pain at all, I had one such woman tell me that for her it was like having a hard bowel movement. I thought she was lying but her sister said that most of the women in their family have short quick birthings.
karen gail
@Juju: As has been pointed out in many blogs; Daddies money insures graduation and good grades for wealthy idiots; at the time the subject was Bush, Jr but it probably holds true with orange one.
sab
@karen gail: I was almost born in the hospital elevator because my mom didn’t realize she was in labor and my dad did.
Mom said root canals were much worse than labor.
priscianus jr
@Jeffro: “Possibly with the $$$ …” You lost me here. Why would Musk back and give money to GOP congressmen to side with Democrats? I don’t get your drift.