Too bad LA is so far away from me here in Illinois! Any of our LA peeps attending?
Los Angeles, I’ll be joining the Fighting Oligarchy tour tomorrow! Speaking and then playing the drums. Join us!
— Maxwell Frost (@maxwellfrost.bsky.social) April 11, 2025 at 5:53 PM
Glad to see that Neil Young is part of this; that seems just right! Joan Baez, too.
Open thread.
Nukular Biskits
We need more of this.
I’m hoping to see another “Hands Off” or similar protest march soon.
Actually, I want to see them EVERY. DAMNED. DAY.
WaterGirl
If we can try to not make this a total gloom thread, that would be much appreciated. By me, at least.
I’m in the process of moving from my old computer to my new one, but of course everything else proceeds as usual in spite of the awkwardness of switching over while still trying to get work done. So my patience is in much shorter supply than usual.
Nukular Biskits
@WaterGirl:
I can post some pics (via my Bluesky account) of my progress assembling the grandkids’ playcenter.
Although that’s not bringing me much joy at the moment … LOL
Baud
Josh Marshall isn’t gloomy!
Melancholy Jaques
I am not in the city this weekend or I’d have gone. Lame, I know, but it’s true.
My union, UTLA, has a rally scheduled for May 17 that I will be attending. They have not yet determined the location, but the subject is education & the targets are Republican congress-creatures.
Wag
With the upcoming outdoor summer Concert season it would be awesome to have an AOL/Bernie headlined Tour of concerts. I’m sure there would be a ton of artists that would sign up for these shows.
WaterGirl
I have a question about oranges. I have noticed lately that the California oranges are consistently better than the Florida oranges, so I have been looking at labels on bags of oranges.
A lot of the same they were “packaged in California”, but most of them say nothing about where they were actually grown. I really try to buy US produce because I don’t trust Mexico and some other countries not to be use pesticides that I would prefer not to ingest, so I want to know where things are grown.
Wag
@Baud: that steadily rising pink line on that chart warms my heart.
rikyrah
This read for filth of Vance by a “Chinese peasant ‘
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8jAWkcC/
😂😂😂😂
WaterGirl
@Baud: Okay, that’s worth embedding, just to see Josh Marshall refer to Musk as “bitch” as Josh calls him out.
tobie
Glad this is happening, though I must confess that the slogan “Fighting Oligarchy” doesn’t move me. “Fighting Injustice” would. “Restoring Democracy” would. “Fighting Ignorance” would. “Fighting for a Govt of, by and for the People” would too. I hear “Fighting Oligarchy” and I think, well that’s one of our problems but not the only one.
pajaro
My kids and grandkids came to town to celebrate Passover with grandma and grandpa, so there’s no gloom in my household. Best wishes to all of you who observe.
WaterGirl
@tobie: Fighting the Republican Destroyers of Democracy!
Baud
A present for Betty C.
SW
@tobie: “Oligarchy in this case is shorthand for income inequality. The winner take all ethos that spawns oligarchs. I would posit that this really is at the heart of the bulk of our seemingly intractable problems. Or at least this is the issue that makes addressing our problems impossible.
Professor Bigfoot
@tobie: I’d like to see us “RECLAIMING OUR CONSTITUTION.”
The neo-Confederates have wiped their nasty arses with it, but it is OURS; and we will fight to defend “the blessings of Liberty” for every one of Americas millions of citizens.
schrodingers_cat
@tobie: You and me both. It should be fighting the Republican tyranny. He is raising money and AFAIK its not going to the Dems.
kindness
Growing up back east my snowbird grandparents would send us a crate of grapefruit and navel oranges from Florida every year. As memory tells me, Florida oranges are juicier than California ones. Now that may be rose colored glasses. Florida citrus is not allowed into California so I have nothing in recent history to base that on. Bags of California oranges would say California on them. Loose ones though? I don’t know.
lowtechcyclist
@tobie:
Cecil Adams beat us to that one by >50 years.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Keep it simple. How many swing voters even know what “oligarchy” means?
But these events aren’t aimed at swing voters. Which is fine, I guess.
WaterGirl
@kindness:
My point is that one brand of California oranges, the ones that are really great, states that they are grown in CA. But i haven’t seen any of those in the produce aisle in the past 3 weeks.
The rest say “packed” or “bagged” or something similar, in California but they don’t say where they were grown.
Also, I believe that while FL oranges may have been superior in the past, FL is now having issues that make their oranges not as good. Someone will surely correct me if I’m wrong.
Harrison Wesley
@Nukular Biskits: I think there’s one on the 19th. Don’t know if it’s national, but I got an email from Manatee County Dems about it.
Ohio Mom
@Baud: Josh Marshall believes in an ethic of optimism. He is hardly ever gloomy.
Here, he is pissed off. I hardly ever seem him pissed off, either, come to think of it. It’s very enjoyable to see, he wields it well.
mali muso
Greetings from my Amtrak train seat as I take kiddo down to see the grandparents on her spring break. We usually fly but given the state of air travel recently, I thought we’d give rail a chance. Why can’t we have nice things in this country like extensive rail networks? This is by far a better way to travel: plenty of legroom, a cafe car you can stroll to, bathrooms that you can actually turn around in. If it was just a littler faster and more convenient, I think I’d give up on airplanes entirely. This train is full, so it doesn’t seem like people don’t want the service.
WaterGirl
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: The first question in planning anything should be “who is the audience?”.
Everything else stems from that. I suspect this is geared to the folks who are already paying attention and know damned good and well what oligarchy is is what the oligarchy is in the process of destroying.
If anyone brings up Black Lives Matter and how that was a bad choice, I am shutting down the thread. :-)
WaterGirl
@mali muso: The nicest people travel by train!
bluefoot
@tobie: I like “Restore Democracy”. I think I resonate better with positive slogans – perhaps “Fight for Justice”, “Fighting for All”. Or how about “Justice for All”? Or “Fighting for We the People.”
Though as long as people are speaking out, I won’t complain too much about their wording.
The Audacity of Krope
I like this one. Good goal and a phrase with good historical grounding.
Geminid
@tobie: I don’t think the word “Oligarchy” hits average Americans like the people using think it does. As you suggest, a word that is in more common use might be better.
Baud
Personally, I’d go with the “Fight for Better Messaging Tour.”
But I don’t like to nitpick.
mali muso
@WaterGirl: It’s an interesting and very diverse mix of folks on this route (northern Va to South Carolina). Kiddo is content curled up with a tablet full of cartoons plus snacks. On our trip home, I’ve booked a “roomette” for the overnight.
Ohio Mom
I’m not sure I trust Bernie enough to support this effort of his. I hope it’s not a thinly disguised presentation on “Both parties stink.”
Though it hardly matters what I think, I’m not attending and I doubt he’s swinging by Cincinnati any time soon.
Harrison Wesley
Perhaps in the interest of reaching across both political and racial lines, we should revive Dan Quayle’s shout-out to the United Negro College Fund: “What a waste it is to lose one’s mind. And not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.”
How very, very true.
Spanky
“Fighting Oligarchs” sounds like a high school mascot. A very, very hoity toity high school.
WaterGirl
@mali muso: I have never done that, but a good friend of mine always does that – and she goes from IL to CA by train.
Sister Golden Bear
In other words, just to hurt trans teenagers, Paxton is willing to screw over special needs children.
French Onion Soup
@tobie:
This is why we lose. Fighting oligarchy is something that works for everyone. Everything you just said is the sort of liberalism people don’t like. You instantly lose any sort of cross over you could have gotten and the normies have just rolled their eyes and moved on. not only that but mushy liberals think it’s the same old same old and not the big issue and are gone.
This right there is the issue with messaging. We aren’t the people to deliver the message as humans. The messaging we want to use drives off everyone who is not us. The topics we really want to address push people away. So we fail.
Fighting oligarchy works. Try to change that to what we want not only does not work it’s counter productive and helps the other team. We have to accept that.
rikyrah
@pajaro:
🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
HopefullyNotcassandra
California oranges are actually more orange in color and much sweeter. Florida oranges are generally more greenish and tart. I think you will usually find California oranges to buy because most Florida oranges are used for orange juice and other juice products.
There should be a sticker on all produce that tells you the country of origin and if it is organically raised.
Other than that, you can buy California oranges directly from California farms. Loads of them list on these “tubes”/internet.
I love a good orange!
Harrison Wesley
@French Onion Soup: I sympathize with what you say, but I’m afraid that there are a lot of people who think oligarchy is a sexually transmitted disease.
Baud
@French Onion Soup:
I have no idea what works, but as a general rule, I’m not into the obsession over the fine points of messaging. Bernie and AOC have the same right to experiment as anybody else.
cain
@WaterGirl: what you going to do with you old computer ?
Baud
Messaging
Warning: Watch video but skip comments. This is a right wing subreddit.
Jackie
Seen on MSNBC:
New FEMA head denies NC request to extend 100% reimbursement for Helene damage.
They voted for FFOTUS overwhelmingly, but… also voted for another Democratic governor.
Leopards are coming for “YOUR FACES!”
New Deal democrat
@Nukular Biskits:
My thought as well, especially since they attracted multiples of what they expected. I think scheduling them regularly, like the first Saturday of every month*, might very well build into a crescendo as T—-p et al make more and more people angry and upset.
(*plus a special one to the Supreme Court during the final week of their term. I’d like to see them slink out of town while 100,000 people surround their building.)
lowtechcyclist
@Spanky:
The Phillips Andover Fighting Oligarchs. Yeah, that works!
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Sister Golden Bear: Paxton has been at war with public education his entire corrupt terms. He uses everything and everyone he can find. Hate is his specialty.
Really, when the last push to voucherize education failed in Texas with the Friday Night Lights push I thought the assault would end. I was wrong. Paxton and Abbott are determined to end decent public education in Texas. They want that sweet, sweet money. There is a never ending set of rules and examinations for public schools and absolutely none for the private (many for profit) voucher schools. How Paxton (a known and obvious crook who paid for his mistress on the public dime) survived politically has me stumped.
Now, this hateful, twisted, corruption wants to be a U.S. Senator. I hope Texans tell him heck no.
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: Solid output from Rep. Frost, duly noted. Not a surprise there.
WaterGirl
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
I have been looking and have not found that on the bags of oranges lately. :-(
cain
@mali muso:
Because this country seems to be obsessed with cars. But also we don’t have the density. But I think with the way Trump is killing rural areas .. maybe trains will be viable without out their interference.
If there is one thing about these hard times is that Trump is breaking every mold. We will have to create new realities.
Captain C
@WaterGirl: Melon Husk’s notional reply to Josh:
“But nobody loves me and I’m the bestest human specimen ever! WAAAAAHHH!”
WaterGirl
@cain: Hoping to sell them to actual humans for the amount that Apple would have given me for trading them in. I have two of them. :-)
trollhattan
@WaterGirl:
Florida has a citrus disease fight on its hands. Guessing this means greater demand for California citrus and perhaps it’s spread thin.
We’re nearing the end of California’s harvest; peak citrus is in winter.
Baud
@The Audacity of Krope:
My only very tiny quibble.
Don’t advise. Do.
It’s a bad habit people on our side have across the ideological spectrum IMHO
WaterGirl
@Captain C:
If “bestest” is how the kids are spelling creepiest these days, I am totally with you! :-)
sab
@WaterGirl: California is really strict about protecting their produce from contamination, so I doubt that oranges packaged in California are from anywhere else.
tobie
@French Onion Soup: The slogan doesn’t work me or for a few others who have commented here. Do we not count?
Elizabelle
@mali muso: Roll on! Love trains, and Amtrak needs the business. Way nicer than jet travel, in many instances. Plus: Spring outside your windows.
Suzanne
@French Onion Soup:
Funny you mention. I was just listening to an episode of the Focus Group podcast, in which moderate and progressive Democrats were interviewed. Sarah Longwell noted that the progressives used the words “oligarchy” and “authoritarianism” a lot. The moderates didn’t use those words at all. That’s been kind of what I suspect….. that language works on us, not not the squishy middle.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@WaterGirl: it should be there. It is how the teller knows what you are buying. A bright orange color with a thick round exterior is likely a California orange. This conversation is making me want a nice valencia ….. imagine a drooling emoji here.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Suzanne: I wonder if Fight the Rich works ?
Captain C
@WaterGirl: I think deep down Melon Husk knows just how incredibly creepy he is. That’s one reason he’ll never fill the rotten hole where his heart should be, and why dollars and (fake or other people’s) achievements will never be enough.
Also, Grimes will never take him back and his kids will always hate him, even little X-Bullet Shield (once he figures out the only reason his dad ever kept him around).
Baud
@tobie:
I don’t think any of us count, whether we like the message or not.
We’re not the ones messaging is designed to influence. We already know what to fight for.
The Audacity of Krope
@HopefullyNotcassandra: Eat the rich. They’re full of nutritious, fortifying wealth.
Elizabelle
@tobie: Hi there. You still in Florida?
I am good w Fight the Oligarchy. Voters could stand to learn some new words, and I can’t think of any benefits to supporting that system, unless thou art an oligarch right now.
Thieves, with a few more syllables.
Steve in the ATL
@HopefullyNotcassandra: Valencia? Those are juice oranges!
Suzanne
@HopefullyNotcassandra: I don’t think “Fight the Rich” works as well as we’d like it to, either. People think being rich is fucken cool. They want to be rich.
I was noting yesterday how one social phenomenon that I observe over and over again is how, in any bullshit social hierarchy, people seem to hate those just above and below them in that hierarchy. They admire the people on the very top, maybe pity those on the very bottom, but they loathe those who played the game just slightly better, and scorn those who did just a little bit worse.
Redshift
@tobie: One of the ideas behind the Hands Off! rallies was that it’s building a movement from people who know they’re pissed off about what’s going on. They don’t have to agree on which part is most important, or the cause. The overarching message is NO!, and that’s enough to agree on.
People who are motivated by fighting oligarchy can join the the Fighting Oligarchy tour. People who are motivated by the decimation of science can join Stand Up for Science. People who are motivated by kicking Elon’s ass can join Tesla Takedown. But at the same time we’re all part of the anti-authoritarian movement we need, if it’s inclusive enough.
Baud
The world will pass us by.
Martin
@WaterGirl: There are some orange packaging in the imperial valley just across the border. It’s possible bulk oranges were shipped in from Mexico and packaged there.
Mexican growers need to adhere to USDA requirements (that was part of the free trade deal that Trump is currently breaking), so it’s generally considered safe to eat here in CA. Lot of grown in Mexico produce here.
Captain C
@Suzanne:
I suspect this is at least in part because they’re around the ones nearer to themselves on the heirarchy and thus more familiar with them.
(ed. for clarity)
Suzanne
@Redshift: I like that. There’s a lot of flavors of Democrats, including some that I have issues with, but we need a majority and a broad movement is the only way to achieve it.
Baud
Captain C
@Suzanne: I saw a post the other day which said something along the lines of “the only way out is to join a popular front which will include both Bernie Sanders and the biggest coke fiends on Wall Street.”
Suzanne
@Captain C: That’s fucken hilarious.
Redshift
@Nukular Biskits:
Me too! I hope you’ve checked Indivisible for events near you. Or create one — we’re in a congressional recess, and local actions can get more attention than national ones. I created an event there back in Jan/Feb to go to Warner’s office, and more than forty people signed up!
Based on the weekly national Indivisible zoom, Hands Off was partly a recruiting event for decentralized local groups and events, and it may be a while between nationwide events.
Captain C
@Baud: “Our female intern got 47 offers for getting her pregnant on the first day alone!”
Baud
@Captain C:
Isn’t that what Harris/Walz was all about?
Redshift
@Suzanne: It’s also intended to bring in people who don’t think of themselves as political at all.
The Audacity of Krope
I think I would have had kids. I keep waiting because I lack the financial security I think any child of mine would deserve. This despite a college degree and a couple professional certifications.
Baud
@Redshift:
That’s the most important thing IMHO.
I think we spend too much effort trying to convert people into us.
tobie
@Elizabelle: Back from Florida for now but will go there again soon.
I’m not opposed to the slogan “Fighting Oligarchy” because it introduces Americans to a new word. That is a good thing.
It’s that oligarchy is a symptom of something more disturbing in our politics as far as I’m concerned. Call it “rule of law” or “justice for all” or a “level playing field.” If we don’t have that, we can’t have anything else.
I am disturbed at the people’s need for a bogeyman on whom they can pin their discontents. MAGA does that all time with Soros, trans people, immigrants, etc. I had hoped Dems were better than this.
FrenchOnionSoup’s response to my mild disagreement is illuminating. He blocked me. Now he can stay convinced that the slogan “works for all” because he’s cancelled anyone who disagrees. This is not a good sign for our politics.
Redshift
@Baud:
Yup. Trumpers think they’re stopping “climate change ideology,” but they’re really just selling out our future to China.
Captain C
@Baud: The Purity Ponies were sure that we would save their asses so decided their public purity was still more important in 2024. Also, the subset of Purity Ponies from Brooklyn were probably pissed at the Wall Street coke fiends for using their purchasing power advantage to hoover up all the good blow.
Baud
@tobie:
Especially when the bogeyman is us.
Citizen Alan
@Suzanne: i wonder if oligarchy is on the list of words that a sixth grader would understand.
Captain C
@Redshift: “Like Wile E. Coyote, I never thought gravity applied to meeeeee!”
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: pro-natalist means pro-poverty for most families.
Unless the movement is about returning Durban to its previous name of Port Natal?
The Audacity of Krope
If not, we are doing our sixth graders a disservice.
Baud
@Captain C:
I still haven’t seen good data on who didn’t show up.
But for some reason, there are a lot of people claiming that their cohort is full of people who didn’t show up and it’s our fault they betrayed their country. Very weird to me.
mrmoshpotato
A tribute to Dump
Joan Baez – Nasty Man
Lyrics
Doc Sardonic
@WaterGirl: No you are correct. The Florida citrus industry is rapidly declining due to a number of factors, chiefly climate change, citrus canker and Mediterranean fruit fly. We also have a problem called citrus greening which is a bacterial issue that cause fruit to not ripen. The citrus greening or yellow dragon as it is known in China, along with citrus canker is wiping out groves, due to transmissibility resulting in the groves having to be destroyed and replanted. Most of the grove owners are electing to grown houses rather than invest in replanting and waiting several non income producing years for the replants to produce.
tobie
@Redshift: I agree. The slogan inspires some people and not others. That’s exactly what I said in my initial comment.
The Audacity of Krope
This I can empathize with completely, but it is not a good foundation for voting choices.
Harrison Wesley
@Baud: I thought Walz was the beaver libertarian guy.
Captain C
@Baud: I’m defining “Purity Ponies” here as whoever didn’t show up because the Democrats Weren’t Good Enough and Needed to Be Taught a Lesson (obviously the most important thing on the ballot in the USA in the Year of Our Lord, 2024). When the data comes out we’ll find out exactly who they are.
I stand by my statement about Brooklyn Purity Hipsters being pissed off that their drugs were too expensive, though.
Suzanne
@Citizen Alan: I did not know what oligarchy was in sixth grade, and I was a pretty well-read kid.
We would be wise to recognize that the use of SAT words inhibits some of our efforts to connect.
Steve in the ATL
@Citizen Alan: any sixth grader who is old enough to vote would likely be a Trump supporter
Geminid
@Suzanne: Moderate Democrats are not neccesarily squishy; at least I would not call people like Reps. Sharice Davids or Emilia Sykes squishy, even though they are considered to be on tbe Moderate side of the Party.
And good luck tagging Virginia Governor candidate Abigail Spanberger as squishy. Spanberger may be a Moderate, but the former Congresswoman is a very ruthless politician.
Ed. I would encourage you and others to watch Spanberger’s campaign this year. I’m hoping her friend, Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill wins the Democratic nomination for Governor in New Jersey. Those ought to be fun races.
Steve in the ATL
@Doc Sardonic: how long until I can grow oranges in my yard in Atlanta?
Matt McIrvin
@Nukular Biskits: There are a bunch of events scheduled for April 19th, but greater Boston is sitting them out because of the Marathon. Which I find a bit ironic given the significance of the date. More planned in May.
Captain C
@The Audacity of Krope: Besides, everyone knows (or should know) if you want cheaper drugs, vote for Democrats, because the Libertarians will inevitably screw it up and the bears will take all the cocaine.
BethanyAnne
What Nazi was it that said one of their major advantages was that leftists would sit in committee rooms debating phrasing until the boots were actually marching into the room?
Martin
@Suzanne: One of the things people like about Trump is that he does a better job of speaking to the need for opportunities to make money – and his path to fame with the TV show is a big part of that. Democrats are pretty bad at that overall.
Republicans talk about how your opportunities are being stolen by immigrants, and Democrats focus on defending the immigrants rather than how those opportunities are being stolen by large corporations and the rich, and then giving solutions to that (and there’s a lot of on-the ground work being done by the left at the local level to fix that – the local work on urbanization is an argument against large retailers and in favor of small business.)
Fight the rich works in the context that you identify them as your loss of opportunity and who the real cause is. Housing too expensive? ¼ of all homes last year were bought by private equity and they’re happy to rent to you instead of you getting to build that wealth, etc. But you gotta do that other stuff. And I think ‘Fight the Oligarchy’ is a bad slogan. I think they need something positive ‘Opportunities for All’ or something like that. It hooks in the outgroups Democrats want to protect, but makes it proactive in the sense that it’s speaking to making the pie bigger, rather than what they’re doing now which implies more making your slice smaller so we can make an immigrant or trans persons bigger. Harris wasn’t able to talk about expanding opportunities too much because I think she felt too shackled to Biden’s agenda (which only did that in a narrow sense) and because I think big Dem donors don’t like the message that their share needs to get smaller.
Stop talking about the constitution as the thing you’ll do for them – people have no fucking idea what it says, so as far as they know, Republicans are protecting it. ‘Let us teach you civics’ is a good thing to do and a terrible slogan, IMO. Rather than talking about the constitution, talk about restoring order from this chaos. The chaos and stress is palpable, just promise to make that go away, and point to the constitutional order as why things weren’t chaotic before.
But I think pointing at wealth and talking about how rich people make not-rich people poorer is important. Nobody does that. They need to. It wasn’t a big dynamic from WWII until about the 90s or so, but now it is.
Captain C
@BethanyAnne: When you’re used to endlessly debating trivial minutiae with the fervor and hostility of a college faculty department arguing over parking privileges, it can be hard to understand the concept of “shit or get off the pot.”
trollhattan
@Citizen Alan:
Slogans are hurrd. Trump was able to corral his minions cribbing his from the Ralphie for President campaign on Simpsons. One-trick pony and one-trick voters. Fucking worked, too.
Last successful Democratic slogan: Hope.
I liked “I’m with her” and love the same-name group today. Didn’t work.
Herding cats and sloganeering cats basically the same thankless task. Democratic voters are cats.
Omnes Omnibus
I am not inclined to quibble with the specific wording that protesters use. They are out there doing it.
The Audacity of Krope
The rich are a very important part and great contributors to
the communityour campaign coffers.Doc Sardonic
@Steve in the ATL: Dunno…..Trump take away science
BethanyAnne
@trollhattan: I remember (well, from historical films) and love FDR’s “I welcome Wall Street’s hate.”
trollhattan
@Steve in the ATL: Probably can now. Plant near a building to protect it from sub-freezing nights (you get those, yeah?).
Frosts will make them pissy but they usually recover after dropping some leaves in a huff. Lemon and grapefruit seem toughest and some orange varieties are more resilient than others.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Maybe Public Enemy was on to something. Fight the Power
trollhattan
@BethanyAnne:
A good retort to Hoover’s President Businessman reign of error during the Depression. Things like that get people’s attention.
Jackie
@Steve in the ATL:
Touché! And worthy of being nominated!
eclare
@WaterGirl:
I mentioned this a while back and someone replied that with climate change it doesn’t get cold enough at night during the right time of year to produce good oranges. I need to look for CA oranges, I’ve given up on FL oranges.
The Audacity of Krope
@Captain C: I hate when bears get at the cocaine. Makes them all sweaty and the quality of intimacy goes way down. Oh, you mean those other bears. Real bears, like the ones who took down Libertopia in NH or whatever it was called?
Or maybe cocaine bear, which is a hell of a funny movie directed by Elizabeth Banks, whom I adore.
Martin
@The Audacity of Krope: I am aware. But we gotta fucking figure out whose side we’re on here, and we keep picking the wrong one.
Republicans now have a less favorable view of corporations than Democrats do. We’re turning into the party of big business because when some of us criticize Democrats for this, we get shouted down.
Doc Sardonic
@Steve in the ATL: In all seriousness our issue for the oranges is not enough cold weather. You need days and nights in the temperature range around freezing for the oranges to sweeten, and rainfall after the fruit sets after budding, our droughts and now warmer winters are not helping.
Quaker in a Basement
Neil Young?
Why?
The Audacity of Krope
Gee, I wouldn’t know anything about that…😏
Martin
@Quaker in a Basement: Because boomers run everything.
Baud
John Kerry’s slogan was The People vs the Powerful.
Didn’t work.
Suzanne
@Geminid: Agreed. I consider the “squishy” to really be the voters who are more easily swayed between the parties, and are often politically incoherent. I wouldn’t define any of those pols you named as squishy.
Doc Sardonic
@Quaker in a Basement: Neil is actually a naturalized American citizen.
Wag
@SW:
agree 95% with what you said, but “oligarchy” sounds too righteous and preachy, and is yet another word that will easily be flipped by the GOP to make the Dems sound out of touch with the concerns of “Real America “ (trademark pending). We have a have a habit of embracing lofty sounding ideals that are flipped on us. We need to consider embracing simple and unambiguous terms that are impossible for the GOP to flip without outing themselves as the fascists they are.
Quaker in a Basement
@tobie:
I’m with you, friend. This is the language that speaks to everyone.
Anne Laurie
@Steve in the ATL: Logees.com has a wide range of hardy citrus, and I can vouch for the company’s service / reputation.
Baud
@Martin:
Republicans base voters don’t like corporations. But they won’t abandon the Republican Party for Democrats over that issue. They’ll fight that battle within the Republican Party. And they’ll keep losing, like they lost with Reagan and are losing with Trump. And it won’t matter.
Baud
For the record, I’ll choose corporations over bigots every day of the week if forced to make that choice.
Thankfully I don’t. YMMV.
Captain C
@The Audacity of Krope:
Both of these.
Steve in the ATL
@eclare: Florida should rename Orange County to whatever grows will there now
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: even hobby lobby?!
Baud
@Steve in the ATL:
I’m pretty sure they’ll choose the bigot side.
Gretchen
@HopefullyNotcassandra: Special needs moms are used to having to fight for their kids. Announcing that you want to hurt their kids is not a good way to get elected. I’m hoping Paxton and Cornin destroy each other in the primary.
frosty
@Baud:
Well that’s a change! I read Josh regularly but had to give up on the Morning
WTF Just HappenedMemo.RaflW
My college girlfriend posted a short crowd video from downtown LA earlier today. Looked like very good turnout!
Wag
@Elizabelle: I like “thieving billionaires “ better that “oligarchy “ because the former is unambiguous and requires no explanation, whereas the later requires a lecture to define it, and the definition includes the words “thieving billionaires”. Why not skip the lecture and go straight to the point?
Elizabelle
@Steve in the ATL: Laughing.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
The problem is, even as power from renewables increases, power from carbon-based sources isn’t decreasing. We’re still putting more carbon into the air than ever before. From your link:
It’s great that renewables are handling nearly all the increase in electricity demand, but the power from renewables has got to increase faster than electrical demand in order to reduce fossil fuel consumption.
The scary part: “Heatwaves were the main driver of the rise in fossil generation.” The fact that we didn’t do enough earlier on is causing us to use more fossil fuels because the world is warming. We’re fighting to overtake the global warming feedback loop.
Elizabelle
@Wag: Thieving billionaires is descriptive. Throw in “tax cheating” as a subhead.
Martin
Democrats need a message to break the myth that rich people always create opportunity for the middle class. Sometimes they do, with the right set of policies, but left to their devices, it’s a LOT easier to steal those opportunities than to provide more of them. Housing is a fairly straightforward message on that one because you can point both to the housing crisis for how bankers ruined it for everyone (this will resonate with conservatives, which is why they kind of like Bernie) and more recently to private equity buying up residential homes to squeeze more rent out of people rather than building residential homes to put them in reach of new home buyers.
All this is why Democrats lost young men. College has become an unreasonably difficult path. Applying for jobs is downright kafkaesque. Opportunities to be entrepreneurial is limited to marginal shit like drop shipping and gig work. Houses are out of reach. No wonder they turn to shit like crypto because every alternative traditional opportunity path to invest in yourself and get even middle-class wealthy has been turned to shit and that’s needs to get remedied, and nobody talks about that. We talk about how crypto is bad, but that comes off as just closing off yet another opportunity, not creating one.
Amazon and large retailers destroy tax and labor bases, and we need policies to reverse that so that starting a small business isn’t some impossible task. Making college cheaper is important but expanding access to it is more important – nobody talks about that. (See the new CSU policy that automatically admits students out of high school with no need to apply – they just send you an offer out of the blue – that’s a huge improvement).
Doc Sardonic
@Steve in the ATL: Highrise Development County just doesn’t have that ring to it.
Harrison Wesley
I don’t know what messaging works for voters Dems are trying to reach. I really like Travis Tritt s Lord Have Mercy On The Working Man, but it’s been out for many years and doesn’t seem to have had much influence.
frosty
@WaterGirl: Florida oranges got hit in 2005 with a bacteria called Citrus Greening Disease and they are tearing out orchards to try to prevent the spread. Not a lot of success.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_greening_disease
Elizabelle
@Baud: Weird, coming from a man married to a Heinz fortune heiress.
Martin
@Baud: I didn’t say Republicans. I said conservatives. A lot of non-voters are conservative. If you can peel off 1%-2% of Republicans and get a few percent of non-voters to show up, you win.
frosty
Based on our Autotrain overnight trip, whichever one of you is the heaviest sleeper should take the top bunk. It was a rocking ride. Even so, it was more fun than flying or driving.
danielx
@Suzanne:
Maybe “rich assholes” instead of oligarchy and “Nazi fucks” in place of authoritarianism?
Baud
@Martin:
You said Republicans in #117, which is the comment I responded to.
Martin
@lowtechcyclist: You have to disincentive at least some of the demand. That’s how CA broke that cycle for decades by doing that. No other state followed us.
The Audacity of Krope
Not a lot of overlap there, truly.
Gretchen
@Steve in the ATL: Those anti-feminist men on Twitter insist that women shouldn’t work, should stay home and have a bunch of kids, and it’s just our selfishness that rejects living on one income. Tiny, crowded house filled with kids and one elderly car is what we should be happy with, not wanting all those jobs and incomes and stuff.
Geminid
@Suzanne: I would call the voters you describe “Independents,” or at least that portion of Independents who would self-describe as Centrists.
Indies are a diverse bunch ideologically, and many are consistent voters for one party or another even if they won’t identify with it. But some actually see themselves as being in the ideological Center, forced to choose between one party that’s too conservative and another that’s too liberal.
On the other hand, some Indies think the party they typically vote for is not conservative or liberal enough, and that may be why they won’t call themselves Republicans or Democrats.
Martin
@Baud: So I did. Sorry about that – but I think conservative non-Republicans are the more likely to bring the vote. The polling is on Republicans so that’s correct. But the reach needs to also tap into the non-voters. I will always reject the idea that they are unreachable when that’s been Trumps margin of victory every time he’s won.
Baud
@Martin:
Fair enough. I don’t have an opinion because I don’t have a clue about what strategy will work. So I’m in the let people try different things camp.
Suzanne
@danielx: According to Longwell, progressive voters make the Nazi analogies and moderates don’t.
Martin
@The Audacity of Krope: Will note the largest group of eligible voters are the ones who didn’t vote. So I think there is a lot more overlap there than we tend to acknowledge.
I think the reason we think that is that every time we lose we make excuses – racism, sexism, etc. And like, yeah, those are real things, but they are things you can’t control (unless you are proposing not having female or POC candidates) so stop blaming that. Focus on what you can control, and ever time we try to do that we get shut down by the usual suspects who don’t want to think about why the message didn’t work, why we didn’t focus on certain voters, and frankly, what voters are actually telling us about why they voted the way they did.
Fucking hate making excuses like that. Surest path to losing in the future, and we do it over and over and over. It’s pathetic.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Coulda sworn that was Al Gore’s in 2000.
Still didn’t work.
Suzanne
@Geminid:
But a lot of the time, they’re not registered Independents. All of these terms are imperfect, it’s difficult to describe both the political outlook as well as someone’s emotional valence.
Martin
@Baud: Yeah, I think that’s important, but we also need to be clear-eyed about what that gets us. Getting 50,000 people to turn out for a Fight the Oligarchy tour is good, but you don’t win the presidency with 50,000 people so you have to evaluate how representative that group is. Maybe that’s the right message, but from how I read the polls and focus groups, that’s not the message. But opening up the space to be critical of the rich is helpful and maybe we combine that into something more positive like I suggested upthread can happen. I know everyone hates Bernie, but he’s done some pretty good work in that regard – he’s expanded the space to talk about these social problems in useful ways.
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
I couldn’t remember so I googled, and got Kerry as the answer.
lowtechcyclist
@Professor Bigfoot:
Seconded!
Martin
@Baud: What was the promise to the people? That’s not evident in the slogan. It’s a very zero-sum framing and Democrats usually don’t respond well to zero-sum framing because POC know how that’s gonna go, particularly when it’s a rich white man saying it. MAGA is a zero-sum framing which Republicans do like – they struggle to think outside of that box – everything is an existential fight for limited resources. Democrats central message needs to be about expanding the pie and sharing it fairly. I think it needs to be positive not negative, and I think it needs to be focused on opportunity for those who are shut out of it (which Biden spoke to a LOT in his 2020 campaign and then got kind of squishy on when it came to policy).
The Audacity of Krope
@Martin: What you say here is correct. Just pointing out, though, that my original comment was a denial of Republicans preferred ideological nomenclature.
They’re radicals. There is nothing conservative about them. Well-informed people with truly conservative values have been voting for Democrats for probably decades at this point.
Hell, as a socialist routinely voting for Democrats, I can only identify a conservative trait in myself that puts sidelines my own preferred solutions in favor of supporting a coalition that has appeared pretty focused on making things better for average Americans from all demographics.
My doubts about them that have emerged within the last year notwithstanding.
ETA: FTR, racism and misogyny were absolutely factors in Harris’s loss.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
The anti-public education people never give up. They’re no different than the forced-birthers…of course for the most part, they’re the same people.
Baud
@Martin:
People don’t hate Bernie because of his message about the rich but because of what he has said about Democrats. Right after the election he once again blames Dems for how the white working class votes. It’s less of a problem now than when he was running for the nomination, but I think few of us are interested in being scolded.
The bigger problem is he has is he has a lot of toxic fans online. FWIW I think that’s AOC’s biggest problem too. If you just listen to her talk, her message is a positive one (from what I’ve seen).
Wag
@Elizabelle: 100%
Baud
@Martin:
Doesn’t seem that different to me than Fighting Oligarchy.
mrmoshpotato
@mali muso: Been from LA to Chicago, and SF to Chicago in a roomette. It’s a good sleep.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
William Saletan (blech!) said otherwise in 2002:
ETA: Much as I hate to agree with Saletan, he says what I thought at the time: that a “people versus the powerful” message was an awkward fit at best with a booming economy where practically everyone was doing well.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle:
And “market manipulating.”
Baud
@lowtechcyclist:
Thanks. AI with the rare failure.
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
You’re welcome!
Uhhuh.
The Audacity of Krope
Gore was likely knowledgeable enough to know how brittle that was or the places where the rot had progressed enough to collapse the system under the least well protected
It wasn’t awkward, it was prescient.
Kerry on the other hand…can’t say I really think he meant it.
Baud
Meme.
sixthdoctor
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Amazing — thanks!
@Redshift: That’s how I see it too. Just glad to see folks turning out to say NOPE!
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@lowtechcyclist:
That’s what all of my local Electricity Uber Alles crowd never gets. They point to our local, evil utility’s power generation portfolio and say “See, fossil fuels are decreasing.” I then point out that while the overall portfolio will show that, look at it from a state-by-state level and it’s not so clear cut.
I then point out that solar growth in the portfolio is non-existent, it’s been the same for 8 years. I then point out all the hurdles said portfolio put in solar development it doesn’t own, ie., residential. I finish up with what you said, what about all that demand for data centers, etc., that every techno-progressive, ie, libertarian, pushes not to mention the crypto crap. If we magically went all electric tomorrow where would that power for that come from?
I then point out that the realities of electricity demand over the last decade has resulted in at least 7 states in Flyover Country pushing back the closing of coal-powered plants because of demand.
Until we get rid of the defacto regulatory capture utilities have on solar rollout, that’s an issue. Unless we do something about the parasitic nature of the crypto scam, that’s an issue. Unless we not bend over backwards for techno-fueled data centers w/o them either paying more or having power generation in place to support them (paid by them), that’s an issue.
Geminid
@Suzanne: My state does not register by party, so I look at the polls of likely Virginia voters the Wason Center puts out several times a year. They ask voters to self describe by ideology and party. The past few years tbe numbers have stayed around 35% Democrat, 32% Republican and 30-31% Independent.
There seem to be more Independent (or “Non-affiliated) voters out West.
Baud
I don’t support what these four people did, but this is the type of misdirection we’re up against–which ignores that it is a Republican majority that makes this possible.
New Republic Headline
The Audacity of Krope
@Baud: Only Democrats have agency. Everyone else is running on base instinct.
Elizabelle
@mrmoshpotato: You know it.
Oh, to prosecute these crooks.
Def should point out, it’s the corruption, stupid. That is undermining the economy.
RaflW
@mali muso: I rode trains in Switzerland in January. They were a little expensive, but really pleasant! I’d love to have more US rail service.
Baud
I guess there are still some things Trump doesn’t feel he can get away with.
karen gail
Is it just me or has all the gold plated, gold colored, gold leafed stuff come out of White House storage and ended up in Oval Office? Just catching up on news and almost every picture with Trump in it he is backgrounded by gold something. The pictures next to fireplace (miss the plant that had been there since Kennedy) from gold chairs, gold on coffee table, even all the “books” on the shelves shine gold.
The once dignified Oval Office looks like tacky dictators wet dream.
Destroy Oh Boy
I don’t mind the term oligarchy. I also think this blog thinks people are intellectually challenged. Plenty of people know what oligarchy means. The problem isn’t intelligence but information and access. I think the presumption that most people don’t know what oligarchy means is mean-spirited and inaccurate. Not a good look.
Baud
@Destroy Oh Boy:
That’s probably my fault.
Lyrebird
@rikyrah: Oh bless you for posting that here!
And I mean that literally, not the “bless-your-heart” thing.
AM in NC
@WaterGirl: Citrus greening disease is devastating Florida citrus. It dries out the fruit and makes it tasteless. The orchards are going to be gone if they don’t find a solution to the spread (by an invasive pest from Asia).
JoyceH
I don’t mind the term oligarchy based on it being unfamiliar to many people. You have to understand the value of that. The term being unfamiliar means that YOU get to define it! Glen Youngkin won his governor’s race in Virginia by running against CRT, and I’d bet money that not one in a hundred people had ever even heard of CRT before he made it an issue. That allowed him to run against “CRT in our schools” despite the fact that CRT was not being taught in our schools. And look at the mileage DeSantis and others got by going after “woke”!
So – I’m against oligarchy. I’m against the wealthy using the political clout their wealth gives them to become even more obscenely wealthy and politically powerful and legally untouchable. Billionaires are starving babies in famine zones and kicking elderly folk out of nursing homes in order to loot the treasury and take all that money for themselves. See how easy that is?
Baud
Meme
Baud
Another Dem I’ve never heard of.
Planet Trump
Geminid
@JoyceH: I could sum that up as “Fight Republican Greed.” It’s one more word, but it might hit harder than “Fight Oligarchy” because it’s less abstract.
mrmoshpotato
@JoyceH:
I’ll take Rich, Greedy Assholes Who Fuck Everyone Else Over for 500, Alex.
Baud
zhena gogolia
@Geminid: It kind of bothers me because “oligarch” became a current term in Russia in recent decades. But mainly I’m not interested in anything Bernie does.
I like “hands off” — it’s pithy and capacious.
Glidwrith
@WaterGirl: You are aware of the greening disease which has wiped out huge swaths of Florida oranges?
Glidwrith
@Geminid: How about “rich fucks” for common usage?
Geminid
@Baud: I had heard of Jared Huffman, but I had to look him up. Huffman has represented California’s 2nd CD since 2013. His district runs from the northern end of the Golden Gate Bridge along the coast all the way to the Oregon state line.
Huffman, age 61, became Ranking Member of the House Natural Resources Committee after Arizona Rep. Raul Grijalva passed away last month.
Baud
@Geminid:
That’s like the Chile of districts.
Wag
@JoyceH: Exactly right. We cannot give the RWNJs easy targets. We need to spell our ideas out in simple and unambiguous terms. We cannot continue to give the GOP the rope they want to hang us.
Geminid
@Baud: It goes way back in time, too. I think CA02 elected its first Representative in 1864. Wikipedia has a long list of them.
Gretchen
The Professional Left podcast made a great point on their most recent podcast. Republicans tell stories: Democrats want to take your stuff and give it to welfare queens and immigrants. Democrats explain stuff. They said stories resonate in a way that explanations don’t, and stick with people. They said Ted Lasso is good at this, and the Bible has stuck around for 2000 years because it’s full of stories that resonate with people
Martin
@AM in NC: Firing everyone from the USDA will solve that problem, I’m sure.
Baud
@Gretchen:
Makes sense to me.
Gretchen
https://professionalleft.blogspot.com/?m=1
Our story can be Elon Musk took all your money to enrich himself
zhena gogolia
@Gretchen: We need parables!
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Parables are nice, but why won’t Dems feed the multitudes?
Baud
This is good from Bernie.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: mmm…Carménère!
Martin
@Baud: And I’ve said I don’t like ‘Fighting Oligarchy’.
I’m not opposed to a ‘punch rich people’ messaging, but if I’m living out of my car, I’m not sure how that helps me. You gotta tie the problem to proposed solutions. How are you going to redistribute those opportunities? Not seeing that part yet. And I think that needs to be the central message. We will make housing more affordable by kicking investors out of that space. We will tax them so it’s not profitable to deny you the opportunity to buy a house and we’ll use those taxes to pay for the child tax credit, etc.
Baud
@Martin:
Gotcha. Missed that.
Suzanne
@Gretchen: Arlie Russell Hochschild wrote about this in her fantastic book Strangers in Their Own Land. She calls it “the deep story“, which is the narrative that people construct to knit together all of the themes they’re experiencing. And, the important thing, is that it is very feelings-based, maybe based in fact but really emotional.
Steve in the ATL
@zhena gogolia: well, we have the story of Sisyphus….
Baud
@Steve in the ATL:
Initially read that as syphilis.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Martin:
Exactly. It’s why I’ve learned that my “Every Billionaire Is A Policy Failure” also ain’t the message that resonates with reachable voters.
And per another comment above, yes, commenters glory in calling somebody who isn’t a college-educated, urban-living, white professional “dumb”, and then wonder why that marginalization of the working poor is a piss poor electoral strategy.
As Markos said shortly after the election, constantly calling a subset of otherwise reachable voters “dumb and ignorant” and promoting policies that they see as benefiting mainly white professionals, isn’t smart.
PatD
@Baud: Every faction has toxic fans.
Baud
@PatD: And they’re always a problem.
PatD
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Not sure we can have it both ways here. The same crowd hates the “Green New Deal” or wiping out student loan debt also loves the idea of tariffs or killing free trade agreements.
Steve in the ATL
@PatD: indeed. Have you ever been to yankee stadium?
PatD
@Steve in the ATL: On the bucket list for sure. They may be the worst fans but I’d go once just to check that box.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Baud:
As someone who’s been to an AOC/Sanders rally, they both say mostly what people here say. Sanders had a good bit of “defending the Constitution” in his stump for example.
Sanders is a scold, I’m no fan, but the usual suspects who push back on him, or AOC or anything outside of their New Dem/New Liberalism white “liberalism”, don’t like the messenger and at another level, don’t really like the message.
Let’s get MattY at a rally of 13 people and have him pitch how it’s so important to get billionaires like Andreesen onboard or how Thiel-funded policy proscriptions are just what Democrats need to win over voters. /s
David Collier-Brown
@Spanky: Most non-political folks in Canada have heard about Russian oligarchs.
They’re some kind of bad people, and rich (;-))
schrodingers_cat
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Did he say a word against Republicans? He only wags his finger at the Democrats. I don’t like him because Magic Grandpa hates immigrants. St Bernard was fixture on Lou Dobbs in the mid aughts.
When W tried and failed to pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform.
I haven’t see one comment praising MattY on this blog. He is an idiot with bad spelling.
Steve in the ATL
@PatD: be sure to wear your Red Sox hat!
frosty
@Baud: That was really good! “Let’s cut to the chase and skate to where the puck is going to be. All your little bills are inefficient.”
ColoradoGuy
“Oligarch” sounds both foreign and more recently, Russian. Millions are aware that Russia is run by a creepy bunch of “oligarchs”, the polite word for evil rich shitheads who steal everything not bolted down. Basically, criminals Who Got Away With It because they own the judges, the legislature, and the media.
And that is exactly what is happening in the good ol’ USA. Our country is getting dragged down to Russia’s level of degradation with cheerleading from the Republican Party, a bought-and-paid-for Supreme Court, and “oligarch” owned media.
This is a simple and direct message that has special resonance for anyone who’s escaped from an oligarchy in another country. The foreign, un-American flavor of “oligarch” is exactly what we want to shout from the rooftops.
Musk and Rupert Murdoch are foreigners who are bringing an alien way of thinking into the USA, and using their billionaire wealth and power to subvert our nation and our national traditions. Again, a simple message, and one that is true.
Yes, it appeals to nativism. But it puts the blame squarely where it belongs: a small group of foreign-born billionaires (oligarchs) who see us as lab rats in a vast social experiment.
Timill
@Steve in the ATL: Preferably the 2004 American League Champions one…
Baud
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I haven’t watched a rally, so i can’t judge. If they bring people in, that’s great. There does seem to be an online faction — perhaps mostly trolls — who use their message to talk down other Dems. It’s a worry given past experience. Debate is fine but I don’t want Dems to fight a two front war.
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: i was looking up Muscat, the capital of Oman. That’s where the US/Iran nuclear talks took place today.
Anyway, it turns out Muscat was a major center for trade with India for many centuries. That made me wonder if Sinbad the Sailor ever sailed down from Basra to pick up some exotic goods from the East.
Suzanne
@ColoradoGuy: So I think the problem with “oligarchy” as a message is just that it doesn’t capture what some voters have an issue with. Some voters are probably deeply motivated by it — I noted that Sarah Longwell noted that she hears a lot of concern about oligarchy and authoritarianism (and Nazi analogies) from progressives, but much less so from moderates. That isn’t because moderates don’t know what those words mean. It’s much more likely that that isn’t their biggest concern. Maybe it’s egg prices, maybe it’s chaos, maybe it’s delayed Social Security checks, whatever. It’s not emotionally resonant to everyone.
So we say things like “oligarchs are controlling the government”, and we think that’s compelling…. because it’s compelling to us.
ETA: This is why I mostly agree with Baud and Omnes that our best course of action right now is to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. We don’t need one single message yet.
Elizabelle
@ColoradoGuy: Good comment.
Baud
Steve in the ATL
@Suzanne:
Wow—years of building your brand here as a thoughtful, intelligent woman destroyed with one short statement!
Steve in the ATL
@Timill: you are evil. Nice!
Suzanne
@Steve in the ATL: You’d be even more disappointed to learn my thoughts on pants.
Jay
The issue really isn’t “the message”,
It’s the Medium.
The FTMSM sane washes the hell out of DJTdiot and his Minions,
Faux NotNews,
The Book of Faces,
Tic Tok,
Social media is dominated by the Reich Wing and Reich Wing algo’s.
Even NextDoor has become unusable for many.
https://lexisantamaria.substack.com/p/top-10-insane-moments-from-the-facebook
Steve in the ATL
@Suzanne: that women can’t wear them on the golf course? Well duh.
Geminid
All right! A headline in today’s Richmond Times-Dispatch:
The former Congresswoman, current candidate for Virginia Governor, made the promise at an event in Alexandria where she accepted the endorsement of Moms Demand Action. Angela Ferrell-Zabala, the organizations Executive Director told the 200 people in attendence:
The Sheriffs of Alexandria and Fairfax County were there also to endorse Spanberger. Moms Demand Action volunteer Shontell Rock told the crowd:
Just ten years ago, Virginia Democrats were afraid to touch gun control issues. But Ralph Northam and Democratic legislative candidates succesfully made gun safety a central campaign issue in 2017 and again in 2019. Now, according to Alexandria news site media AlexandriaNow:
Professor Bigfoot
“There ain’t no magic bullets.”
BellyCat
MERIT > INHERIT
New Deal democrat
@Geminid:
I recently read a book on the 700 year relationship and rivalries between the Roman and Persian Empires. Muscat was a very prosperous major trading point between Rome and the East, and was usually independent of each.
Jay
While Global travel to the US has cratered,
Global travel from the US has also cratered.
Roughly 50% say they don’t feel safe in other countries,
Roughly 50% fear they won’t be allowed back into the US.
Ruckus
@mali muso:
My doc is 50 miles away and I take the Los Angeles area Metro electric train. As a senior, at rush hour(s) time it costs $.35 and at non rush hour time it costs a massive $.25 cents. The bus on either end is $.50. It’s not quite as fast as a car during non rush hour traffic but during it is quite a bit faster and far less stressful. And less stress in a damn nice bonus.
Martin
@mali muso: If you can work around the frequent Amtrak delays (usually because they are being blocked by freight), it’s quite a nice way to travel.
Maybe post-Newsom our HSR will get higher priority.
Martin
I wanna apologize for suggesting we aren’t creating opportunities for young people. Apparently there are plenty showing up.
I’ll be eternally disappointed in this site if that doesn’t make it to the front page.
The Lodger
@mali muso: Roomettes beat the hell out of sleeping in the row of seats facing the door to the next car. Seats are cheaper but you won’t wake up every 15 minutes with light in your eyes.
The Lodger
@Ruckus: You’re in LA. Do you have an example of non-rush-hour traffic?