zeecube has a short story to share.
I was on my way to visit a client this afternoon ( Friday 4/11/2025) when I came across an impromptu Hands Off protest in front of the old courthouse in Covington, Louisiana.
For reference, Covington is in a deep red district.
Our congress critters are Rep. Steve “Skeevy” Scalise (R – granny starver), and Senators Bill Cassidy (R-hypocrite) and John “Foghorn” Kennedy (R- hick cosplay).
Crowd was small – about 35 people, but they were receiving positive feedback from many folks passing by.
Where there’s life, there’s hope. This country is worth fighting for.
If we’re open to it, I think we will continue to learn the lesson that we should not be writing off the people who live in red states. Many of them are there for good reasons that have nothing to do with their politics.
Barbara wrote something here in the comments last week that is worth thinking about as we learn to try to extend grace to our imperfect allies as we fight for a world can represents our values.
I think it’s probably more nuanced — there are many people in this world who blame their abused mothers for not protecting them from their abusive fathers.
That might be fair in individual cases, but in many cases it is also an emotional reaction borne partly of still being too afraid to challenge the father.
It’s a lot safer to vent your anger on someone you know is not going to actively try to hurt you.
This makes so much sense to me.
So before we throw our allies off the bus for being too much this or not enough that, it will help if we can all remind ourselves that we can only know a person’s actions and not their intent.
*I am speaking here of regular people who may be imperfect allies, and not speaking of the people we can all name whose intent is very clear as they don’t even pause to take a beat when someone, or a million someones, get hurt.
(Please don’t overrun the comments with report after report of the latest evils – there are plenty of other threads for that.)
Mostly open thread.
Baud
Go Covington!
suzanne
This is a very good reminder.
Cathie from Canada
Also, we don’t expect our enemies to do the right thing, but we are disappointed and upset and angry when our friends let us down.
Old Dan and Little Ann
Our lovely neighbor died peacefully in hospice care early Friday a.m. We have a very close knit neighborhood and we had a big get together Friday night for some shenanigans. A few tears were shed but mostly laughs and great stories.
Elizabelle
Wow, does zeecube have them well described.
Three cheers for the Covington Hands Off protesters. Extra cheers for anyone who protests in a state that has Spanish Moss. You’re already in the Old South, and it’s a heavier lift.
NobodySpecial
I feel for them as allies, but they’re in enemy territory. It would be better to help them exfiltrate.
Redshift
Yay, well done!
On the weekly national Indivisible Zoom, there’s usually a shout-out to some of the new local groups that have registered in the past week. This week there was one in Alabama, which proudly described itself as being in the “435th bluest congressional district in the country!”
chemiclord
But without my ideological purity, what would I have to berate people who I don’t think are good enough to justify me doing absolutely jack shit?
I spent a lot of effort cultivating this ethically sourced, free-range, organic, vegan bigotry that would be palatable to my white working class brothers that I’ve never met because I haven’t been two miles outside town in fifteen years!
You can’t take that away from me! You CAN’T! This is oppression that’s every bit as bad as what the GOP is doing!
Gretchen
Thank you. I live in a blue area of Kansas – yes, they exist. My friends and family are here and I’ve lived here 30+ years. I hate when I see those maps putting NY, CA and Minnesota with Canada.
My daughter lives in such a red area of NY that her husband discouraged her from putting out a Harris sign. He didn’t think it was safe.
People want things to be simpler than they are.
Bupalos
@NobodySpecial:
I had to search “I was a coward on instinct” because I wanted to get the reference just right in response to you here, and it yielded the more interesting result of reminding me what absolute shit “AI overview” is.
“The phrase “I was a coward on instinct” comes from Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1. Falstaff, a character known for his cowardice, uses this phrase to describe his reaction to a robbery he faces, claiming he was cowardly out of instinct. He is essentially saying that his fear was so strong and immediate that it overcame any sense of bravery or self-control. ”
This is literally so shallowly wrong it can’t even be called wrong, but it’s about as bad a mis-explanations of Shakespeare as I have ever seen.
But back to the point, some of us out in the “ungovernable tribal regions” seem to lack the noble instinct that causes one to take to their heels.
NobodySpecial
@Bupalos: You’ll forgive me for having seen a number of solid blue states lose electoral votes in favor of places with warmer climate and hellish government that doesn’t change in response to the addition of all the new residents, my own home state included.
We need people back here to try and reverse the Senate gap that has only grown over the last few decades. New York and Illinois combined have lost 20 delegates since 1972; Texas and Florida have gained 27, and are no closer to flipping now than they’ve been in decades. Pennsylvania and Michigan have combined to lose an additional 14.
We need more and bigger blue states, not more and bigger blue islands in deep red territory.
chemiclord
@NobodySpecial: This idea of a “national divorce” is fueled by people who don’t want to have to put the work in to make their country a better place.
They have dreams of a “Jesusland” that is filled with suffering evangelicals while their “Cascadia” or “New Canada” and their burgeoning socialist utopias flourish.
Never mind that there’s no feasible way to make it work, and that their idyllic lands wouldn’t manifest the way they think, or that Jesusland would ever suffer such a settlement… yeah…
eclare
Great to see small protests like this, it lets other people who might be scared to voice their opinion know that they are not alone.
Elizabelle
@Old Dan and Little Ann: my condolences on the loss of your friend. She (?) will be missed.
lowtechcyclist
@NobodySpecial:
We’d need more blue states to close the Senate gap. We have 22 states where we have both Senators, and another three where we have one. If we were to pick up the other seat in those three states (ME, PA, WI) over the next six years, we’d still only be back up to 50. So we need more blue states, and we don’t get there by telling people to move out of red states. We’ve got to turn a few red states blue.
Thank goodness we didn’t look at Georgia and say, “why bother?” or 48 would be our max.
gene108
@Gretchen:
Dividing countries is usually a very bloody affair with populations slaughtering the “others” that they want to move.
I wish people talking about dividing the USA would look at Europe after WW1, when boundaries were redrawn, India-Pakistan partition, Yugoslavia’s breakup, and many more I can’t think of.
lowtechcyclist
@chemiclord:
Not entirely.
There’s been a lot of talk, here and elsewhere, that if we get through to the other side of this national insanity, we need major changes to our system of government to keep this from happening again.
But given our system of Constitutional amendment, the only route there that I can see is a new Constitution. And the only way to get a new Constitution that’s an actual improvement that I can see is if red states and their legislators are shut out from its creation. Ergo secession. After we have a new Constitution, let red states join us when they see that life is better over here.
I’m happy to put in the work to make this country a better place. But we won elections in 2018 and 2020, and lost remarkably little ground in the 2022 midterm, and yet here we are. We need to make structural changes that break this cycle. A better answer than secession would be great. I haven’t seen any suggestions.
Marcopolo
Next big protest is Saturday, April 19. Will see if I can find the link for locations but am assuming that just about every place where folks protested on April 5 will be active.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/50501-s-april-19-protests-what-they-are-how-to-attend-more-info/ar-AA1CHqlN
chemiclord
@lowtechcyclist: Yeah, see… there’s one very critical flaw that you gloss over in the “secession” part.
Ya know… the part where quite likely tens of millions die in the ensuing Second Civil War as a country with a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons tears itself apart.
Eh, I’m sure it’ll be fine.
Ohio Mom
@Marcopolo: Whoever the organizers are, they must think they are building momentum by announcing another set of protest rallies a mere two weeks after the first one. I’m kinda doubting the excitement is building and am expecting this next set to be poorly attended.
zhena gogolia
@Ohio Mom: Not a protest person myself, but I feel the excitement is building. Why? Can’t tell you.
Maybe looking into my own soul and realizing that I’ve been thinking up posters.
BellyCat
Abusive mothers demand equal blame, damnit! Why should abusive fathers get all the credit for fucking things up?!?!
Kelly
I live in such a red area of Oregon we don’t put out signs.
Lyrebird
Yeah that’s a great point! And since those examples are from the past, it’s less of a slap in the face that what I usually want to say, like when we splinter we are doing Darth Putin’s work for him.
^^this is what I figure drives a lot of arguments here.
When people start splitting off states worthy or unworthy of sympathy, I think of many situations:
People like Betty Cracker who is a FL native
People who have trans kids in FL or TX but can’t afford to move
The people who made such awesome turnout happen for the Harris campaign in TX, yes in TX where there are others ready to run a campaign bus OFF THE ROAD potentially killing someone.
eclare
@Kelly:
I live in a very blue area, Memphis, but I am surrounded by red, so I don’t put out signs. Too many people have too many guns. I don’t think someone would take a shot at me, but I only have a carport, no garage, and tires are expensive.
Soprano2
I live in a red state in a city that is slowly, slowly turning purple. Our school board election was Tuesday. One of the MAGA board members didn’t run for re-election, and the other one lost to two normal women. Our school board never turned full MAGA.
I think my mother yelled at us a lot because she was unhappy but wasn’t able to confront my father. She wasn’t like that when I was little; it started after my sister was born. It wasn’t because of her, but that was the timing. She loved us but was frustrated with her life, I think. We never talked about it.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
If I may offer a gentle rebuttal, intentions aren’t the most important things sometimes. The road to hell is paved with good ones after all. What matters is what’s effective, and the problem is that’s not always the easiest thing to ascertain. What works in one place won’t work in another, etc
Maybe it’s just good to know the playing field before judging whether a play was a poor or portentous idea.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Lyrebird: Agree! Agree! Agree!
Matt McIrvin
@Marcopolo: A lot of the Boston area is going to be out of commission this time because of the Marathon. But it looks like there are some events in Massachusetts.
SN in CO
@Lyrebird: Generally read rather than comment. But you point out the fundamental truth we have to face. So – just want to echo your point about how bloody partitioning always becomes.
Dividing the Indian subcontinent into the India and Pakistan (and eventually Bangladesh) was an incredibly bloody and chaotic process. And the end of Austria-Hungary essentially caused blood and chaos in Eastern Europe that stretched from the 1920s through the Balkan wars of the 1990s.
Neither British India nor Austria-Hungary were ideal liberal nation-states, but one can’t ignore the genocidal chaos caused by their respective ends. This comes because the pre-partition populations were simply too mixed to divide cleanly and without chaos. People die and are killed in the scramble to regroup. And hatred rises.
So . . . before anyone blithely suggests a US national divorce, look at what happens when a political entity of any sort collapses. It is not something lightly to suggest – it will lead to real bloodshed.
BeautifulPlumage
“If we’re open to it, I think we will continue to learn the lesson that we should not be writing off the people who live in red states. Many of them are there for good reasons that have nothing to do with their politics.”
This blog has been very helpful in reminding of this. Cheers to everyone in deep red areas who fight how they can.
BeautifulPlumage
@Ohio Mom:
I think they are right to do this so soon. It can’t be a one-off, we need sustained protest. The Tesla Takedowns are an example.
Ruckus
@NobodySpecial:
In some ways this may be more difficult than it appears.
First, we are all humans. Some more so than others but still, we are.
Second, in many parts of this country (and the world) people have had a more autocratic government than we are supposed to have. And us not having that gives some power to the citizens that some humans just cannot stand/abide. But if well recognized it works and gives a much broader power structure to the citizens.
But.
There is always a big, huge even, butt around many corners, just waiting to gain control and smell up every damn thing. And it can get worse if that butt is getting senile and listens to ALL and ONLY the WRONG people. I give you our current whatever the hell he is.
There will likely always be humans that think they should control everything and have all the power. This countries founding was because of that. It is NOT supposed to be a monarchy, a totalitarian, autocracy or dictatorship. Which means that each of us has some power but no one has it all. Except that we are seeing that not everyone agrees with that. It is after all humanity, in all it’s levels, idiotic, moronic, irrational and yes rational. As we have grown bigger and communications have gotten far faster and covered/exposed far more to a reality that may be different than their’s, it is absolutely vital that we never forget that this is about all of us, the smart, the feeble, the greedy, the infants, the old farts, etc, etc, ALL OF US. But once a country is used to a constitutional democracy, there will always be those that want that power, that ownership back, even if it ends up in the worst hands. Which are the hands of those that want power and themselves or like minded in charge of everyone else. This country was founded to not allow that, but it seems to me that an unreasonable percentage of citizens think that someone like shitforbrains is the ideal solution to getting back to a way of life that people that look, act and feel like they do have to take command back. That isn’t what this country was founded to be, is 1000% bullshit and people that feel this way need to be informed that that they are wrong. Like 100,000% wrong.
lowtechcyclist
@chemiclord:
Sorry, but I just don’t see it. I really don’t get why the red states would go to war to hang onto the blue states that they despise. Nor do I see why blue states would insist on hanging onto their deep red rural areas if those rural areas wanted to be part of Red America. And those would be the only two reasons for Red America to go to war against Blue America.
dww44
@NobodySpecial: Speaking from another Southern state that also has Spanish moss there are a lot more Blue supporters than one would think. Please don’t write off Southern states or the people who live there.
zhena gogolia
@dww44: It’s such a tiresome trope.
Martin
@SN in CO: That instinctive part of my brain that I have learned to listen to even when I don’t understand what it’s trying to tell me is telling me we’re headed toward a hot war with China of some magnitude or another, and that will eclipse all of the other fears of national divorce or whatever here. There is something in the nature of how China is isolating the US that is reminiscent of the runup to previous conflicts. I’m not enough of a historian or political scientist to put the pieces together, but that seems like the trajectory we are on, the trajectory some parts of Trumps team wants us to be on, and everyone is so distracted by the personal impact of these policies that they can’t see it (including me).
HopefullyNotcassandra
@lowtechcyclist: I don’t believe you are looking as closely as you should.
Who gets the military forts? Who gets the ports? Who gets the rivers, their navigation and their water? Who gets the Great Lakes, the Eerie canal?
Is Austin part of blue America? Is Dallas? Is Memphis? Is St. Louis?
What happens to democrats in Alabama? In Mississippi? In Idaho? In Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and Indiana? What happens to Iowa? This is a never ending query
How many guns do Americans own?
How can 2 countries exist straddling each other? What happens to the interstates? To the big federal hospital in Omaha? What happens to Omaha?
Incidentally, our country splintering has been the happiest dream of every enemy this country has ever had.
mvr
It turns out urban/rural political splits replicate themselves all across the country at finer grain. So smaller cities in rural areas are also bluer than their surroundings (and the converse). Lincoln and Omaha will not be happy stuck in Rightwingastan. Rural Eastern Oregon will want to be part of Rightwingastan. Etc.
Martin
17 year old killed his parents to get access to money as part of a neo-Nazi plan to assassinate Trump.
Not sure what the motive behind the PA Gov mansion arson was, but it was almost certainly political.
Awful lot of gasoline getting spilled around here.
lowtechcyclist
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
No. Blue cities and blue people in red states would just have to live in Red America, at least at first. For blue states to fight to hold onto them would be the route to a massive civil war.
Waterways? I can think of ways to work that out between red and blue, but that’s more complicated than I have the time for tonight.
lowtechcyclist
@mvr:
Already addressed that in the part you quoted.
See #41.
chemiclord
@lowtechcyclist: Then you’re blind.
Trump’s entire motivation is revenge on everyone who picked on him. The cult’s entire motivation is centered on “owning the libs.” Trumpistan will not suffer liberal countries forming and thriving.
Any secession attempt will be met with tremendous violence. They don’t want to be left alone. They want total dominion.
WaterGirl
@SN in CO: Lurk less, comment more! :-)