Are we sure he’s not the Antichrist? At a minimum, he is certainly the anti-Biden.
Biden worked hard at helping people by reducing student loans.
FFOTUS is out to destroy the people who can’t keep up with their payments.
Oh, so jacking up grocery prices, crashing the stock market, threatening to slash Medicaid & SNAP, and slapping on ridiculous tariffs wasn’t enough?
Now Trump’s coming for your paycheck and your tax refund—just because you fell behind on student loans during a pandemic.
— Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (@repjasmine.bsky.social) April 22, 2025 at 9:45 AM
I just ordered this car magnet.
Open thread.
Gretchen
I loved that the WSJ article Betty linked bluntly refers to the « Trump rout ». The Wall Street Journal!
Baud
I hate when I read a post title and panic because I think it’s about me.
schrodingers_cat
I am seeing complete silence on the student loan decision from the tankie left for whom Joe Biden could do nothing right.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I thought you were the Baudisattva.
WaterGirl
@Gretchen: I have been having trouble keeping up lately, so I missed that. Do we have a link? Or a day that she posted it?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
One person’s Baudisattva is another person’s Beelzebaud.
WaterGirl
It just struck me that if that were a Trump car magnet, there would be an apostrophe in King’s, because they have trouble with
spelling and grammarEnglish.schrodingers_cat
@Baud: True that
I saw something pretty cool on Twitter the other day.
Hybrid Bharatnatyam
WaterGirl
PSA: If anyone wants to get in on frosty’s $1k Angel match, there is $125 left on the match.
Fair Economist
@schrodingers_cat: Imagine that. Not hearing much about Gaza, either, even though Israel is once again bombing and blocking aid. It’s almost like the tankie left opposition to Biden was engineered to put Trump in office.
WaterGirl
@Fair Economist:
Fixed that for you.
*but why? That’s what I don’t get.
Jay
JD Vance killed the Pope.
rk
I had this conversation with a young person who voted for Biden but said that a lot of young people hated Biden because ultimately their loan forgiveness did not come through. I said that this was because of the supreme Court and not Biden . His response was that don’t promise what you can’t deliver.
I don’t know what the answer to this is. The fundamental problem is the voters who don’t really understand how anything works. Even democratic voters. That’s why a huge chunk of them switched from Biden to Trump and a whole lot of them stayed home.
Maybe this destruction may open some People’s eyes as to what role the government plays in their lives.
WaterGirl
@Jay:
schrodingers_cat
@Fair Economist: Putin nurtured both ends of the horseshoe.
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: Russia plays a long game.
prostratedragon
No. Really.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat: I get that Russia wanted that, but why are any lefties stupid enough to get sucked into Putin’s orbit?
rk
@Fair Economist:
Because they know that protesting Gaza is a one way ticket to El Salvador. They all know that protesting a democratic president has no consequences.
Trump was not surrounded by evil monsters last time. He was restrained during the BLM protests.
sab
@Baud: It is always about you. You must know that whatever it says it is about you. If it isn’t then you will never be president. And we can’t have that.
Old School
@Jay:
Surprised Modi took the chance and met with Vance.
sab
@schrodingers_cat: Really? China does. I think Russia is nearly reactive as Trump is.
Steve in the ATL
@Baud: just another thread about Omnes!
sab
@Jay: If he didn’t he still wanted to. Pope being dead makes him happy, especially if he isn’t blamed.
Captain C
@WaterGirl: His propaganda tells them what they want to hear and thus they don’t think about it critically
eta: Also, I suspect at least some of them can’t tell the difference between the USSR and the current revanchist, rightist, mafia state that is Putin’s Russia. Or just don’t want to.
zhena gogolia
I ordered the same magnet!
And yes, he is the Antichrist. I can’t tell you how many people have said that to me. We can’t all be wrong.
Lucidamente
And his Vice President killed the Pope.
https://www.imightbewrong.org/p/omen-schmomen-sometimes-popes-die
lowtechcyclist
I’d say Trump’s an antichrist. John, in his first epistle, says there are many of them.
Captain C
It’s funny that you put this headline up while I’m in the middle of reading Fred Clark (Slacktivist)’s reviews of the first two books of the Left Behind series, which points out hilariously the theological and writing awfulness of the series. That said, Nicolae Carpathia is a more believable character than Preznit Fuckwit and his merry band of destroyers.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
One theory, is that tankies want everything to be burned down, from which a egalitarian new economy and political system will arise.
So, support the arsonist.
An other theory, is the Horseshoe theory, where Tankies have more in common with MAGgot’s than the Democrats.
Another theory, is that a bunch of naïve yout’s got played by disinfo, inside and out.
On the r/Leopards reddit, there was a post by some youth, stating why they voted for DJTdiot, basically a list of reasons “they believed” shite, like Ukraine War in 24 hours, etc.
Probably a mix of all that.
Eg. Tariff’s FFS.
Basically, “you don’t know anyone as stupid as Americans, you really don’t”.
paraphrasing Fran Lebowitz on DJTdiot.
Jay
@Old School:
Didn’t touch him, didn’t shake hands, kept 2 small children between them at all times.
schrodingers_cat
@sab: Russia has been nurturing western tankies since the birth of the Soviet Union. If that’s not a long game I don’t know what is.
Splitting Image
@WaterGirl:
It isn’t all due to Russian agitprop, but the tankies wouldn’t be doing anything differently if it were.
A lot of labour activists use the rhetoric of worker unity (“We are the 99%”) but don’t really support the rights of women and people of colour as workers when the rubber hits the road.
They would rather see the wealth gap between the super-rich and the working classes get wider than to see the wage gap between men and women, or between white people and black people, get any narrower.
Russians have been actively working to exploit the wedges between different factions of the working class, but the wedges were already there.
artem1s
@WaterGirl: Jill Stein. remember that shit? no difference.
Jay
@artem1s:
Jill walked with $16 million in bank,
If you are going to ratfuck, at least get paid well.
prostratedragon
@prostratedragon: I misread that. Of course, I mean, “Hell yes he is.”
Exhibit:
The examples are in a print image of extremely rare events so phrased as to permit many things into thdir purview.
WaterGirl
@Lucidamente: Welcome!
prostratedragon
@schrodingers_cat: Lovely bit of charm amid the dross.
sab
@Jay: Yikes! You have come around quite a bit. You used to be friendly. I am not judging at all.
I wonder which side of the border my nephew and his Canadian wife will end up on. She dashed to the nearest Canadian post office to register her kids as soon as they were born.
artem1s
@Jay: you think the Gaza tankies weren’t curiously well funded? do you think any of the money they raised went to Palestine?
YY_Sima Qian
@schrodingers_cat: It’s a long game, but also a very limited, negative sum (not even zero sum) game.
RSA
I don’t know, but consider the traditional seven deadly sins: pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth. Trump is the poster child for every single one. If we looked at his personality profile, we’d probably want to add a few new ones.
Steve LaBonne
@Old School: If it works again, Modi won’t be missed, unlike Pope Francis.
The Audacity of Krope
If you’re thirsty for invective related to Gaza, I got some content sitting unremarked up on about two threads back.
Timill
@WaterGirl: As a graduate of the King’s College of Our Lady and Saint Nicholas in Cambridge, I have to say that “No King’s In America” would convey an entirely different message…
Steve LaBonne
https://www.reddit.com/r/dankchristianmemes/comments/11r6e61/the_mark_of_the_beast/
schrodingers_cat
@prostratedragon: Thanks, I am glad you like it.
sentient ai from the future
so this is what i’ve been dreading.
i owe upwards of $500k for an ill-fated attempt to become a physician. if only i hadn’t prioritized my family over my career.
at any rate, as a divorced parent without a credential i was like fuck this, come at me bro. i was on wage garnishment for a couple of years while i worked two jobs driving a forklift on a loading dock, because i needed to pay the bills. my right shoulder still picks fights with me over that.
covid saved my ass. no wage garnishment, AND extra unemployment money that i saved and eventually put into an IRA. i was in low income housing at that point, and got my rent paid so everything i was saving in case i needed to just barf it all up for rent, i was able to keep in my IRA. this would never have happened otherwise.
after the additional money evaporated and biden was president, i got onto the SAVE plan, which meant i was paying small amounts monthly, appropriate to my income, and THEY TOOK ALL THE BAD STUFF OFF MY CREDIT RECORD RETROACTIVELY.
so i bought a used EV. got the tax refund in inflation protected savings bonds.
my life, and the life of my child, have been substantially improved by student loan forgiveness and the associated biden programs.
my child is also transgender. a month or two ago i sat down with my true-blue senator’s constituent services staffer, with my child, because the threat of limiting their access to puberty blockers is a real, persistent, and direct threat to my child’s well being. we discussed how providing opportunity to improve one’s life outcomes is or should be the goal of government, and that biden’s programs did precisely that for me and for my kid.
so now i have to consider how at-risk my existing assets are, and whether i should maintain them here or move them out of the country. i still dont have anywhere near enough to pay off my debt, nor do i have enough to even pay the interest on my debt load each year and still live.
today i went to the airport to check the currency exchange spot prices.
Jay
@sab:
I guess it is a combo of things.
r/Leopards, etc.
Newsom spending millions in ad money trying to get Canadian’s back to Cali, when we could wind up in El Salvador or spend months in ICE detention.
The head of the US Soybean Association figuring out, finally, that tariff’s are paid by the Consumer and kill exports, after he went through the whole exercise before during DJTdiot 45 term.
Truckers finding out that they need imports free of tariffs to make a living.
I won’t hold that Canadians are greatly smarter. My riding is going Lib, when we have a Dipper MP, and Con’s are running second. But we have the CBC and are a bit better informed.
r/Leopards has case after case of “I didn’t think he would deport MY wife”.
Yeah, he said he would, 1700 times on the campaign trail.
Y’all want to flee north, I have 8 sleeping bags, mats and air mattresses, (camping history, 4 seasons here and I used to have a sailboat, different bags for different occasions),
But we will need to set up a bathroom schedule. It’s a 1BDR.
SpaceUnit
A much-used ploy to lead lefties into the wilderness is the Pied Piper strategy. Promote some seemingly sensible figure such as Jill Stein, Glenn Greenwald or Matt Taibbi among young left-leaning but politically naive Americans. Then once they’ve gathered a large enough audience they gradually begin to shift their messaging to one of disappointment with Democrats. They aren’t doing enough. They’re not granting your every liberal wish. They’re part of the problem. They’re just as bad if not worse. The only way forward is to rid ourselves of the current Democrats in office. Etc.
Russian / Republican embeds, every one.
Scout211
Gavin Newsom was interviewed by NBC News and proceeded to criticize the Democratic Party. Is this going to be SOP for campaigns this election season?
After reading his words, I feel as dumb as I need to be.
So what is he doing to “rebuild from the bottom up?” Why, he’s courting those young men who look up to Trump and Joe Rogan! Smart!
No, dumb, Gavin.
It’s gonna be a long election season.
WaterGirl
@sentient ai from the future: I wish I had some good advice for you.
sentient ai from the future
@Jay: i have told the kiddo that once they are out of the house i am buying a sailboat and being an itinerant/homeless/anchorage/docks crusty. if i can do that in canada, all the better. HMU
schrodingers_cat
@Old School: Modi is called panauti by his detractors ( bad omen). He hugs leaders and then they lose elections.
The Audacity of Krope
Understatement of the millennium.
Is there a different Trump who’s President of the United States in California?
Steve LaBonne
@Scout211: He wouldn’t get my vote if he were the only candidate on the primary ballot.
Ohio Mom
@sentient ai from the future: You are very pragmatic and strategic. I was going to say that can only help but in this upside down era, who knows what will help? Luck, I guess luck always comes in handy. Good luck to you and your child.
And I’ll add that the cost of medical education in this country is criminal. So much about how we train doctors is sadistic.
Jay
@artem1s:
In the Reveal/RT expose, the top 10 ruZZian disinfo perps, were doing it for $1500 a month.
We are all “olds” here. We don’t get paid for commenting, (damn Soro’s), but as the Edolph baby drama legions, expose shows, one can make up to almost $50K USD a month, by being a Twitterati influencer.
YY_Sima Qian
Get ready for a jump in stocks come morning:
& now this:
Either Trump & Bessent are manipulating the markets so that they & their cronies can profit off the volatility, or they are getting ready to fold, or both.
Steve LaBonne
@sentient ai from the future: I am sorry, and I have no words of wisdom. Your problems are ones nobody should have if this were a civilized country.
NaijaGal
@schrodingers_cat: I’m obsessed with Usha Jay’s choreography. I also like the extended version of the one you shared and this one (Empire State of Mind ).
sentient ai from the future
@WaterGirl: i’ll scrape by like i always have. i didn’t ask for help or advice, and i have made my peace with doing so when i need it, or shortly after the realization that i do need it is unavoidable.
and i am always up for listening for the little-known maneuvering, that occasionally gets discussed here.
but mostly i want people to know that this shit matters, and to have stories they can tell to others about what it means to people. personal narratives are a lot more convincing to some people than statistics or morality. i dont understand it, but it is what it is.
Steve LaBonne
@YY_Sima Qian: More than ever I believe this is primarily a pump and dump scheme to enrich Trump and his cronies.
schrodingers_cat
@NaijaGal: Yeah I have subscribed to her YT channel. She is talented. I learned Bharatnatyam for 4 years.
YY_Sima Qian
@Steve LaBonne: That is definitely a part of the dynamic.
dww44
@rk: Let’s face it we are where we are because our citizenry is woefully under informed. If we ever get out of this crisis, and I’m not very hopeful about that tonight ( see CBS 60 Minutes producer leaves: more bowing and scraping by our country’s wealthiest) we need to do better with our civics education. A lot better.
Baud
@rk:
Voters as consumers.
Ironically, it’s the right that has a better sense of civic duty. In furtherance of evil, but civic duty nonetheless.
Jay
@sentient ai from the future:
Go West Coast, not East Coast, too cold.
On the West Coast, watch out for katabatic winds. Wind avalanches in the fiords.
Lot’s of opportunities for gardens. Crick, raised beds on south facing empty land, good for peas, potatoes, 3 sisters, you will have to share with bears, get a subsidence permit, so you are not “limited” by game seasons.
I spent 2 years living on a 26′ sailboat, sailing up and down the coast, living “off the land” for the most part, (dried beans, brown rice, oils, beer, eggs).
WaterGirl
@sentient ai from the future: you matter to us here.
Jay
@YY_Sima Qian:
Still no “perfect” phone call from Xi?
WaterGirl
@dww44: I have been trying to figure out how we do that. At some point years ago, something or other passed in the house and my sister thought that was all there was to it – no idea that something has to pass the house in the Senate and quite likely go through reconciliation and be signed by the president.
also did not know the difference between the primary and the general election.
I don’t know where we start.
sentient ai from the future
@Jay: “dried beans, brown rice, beer, oils, eggs” is basically the diet (sans beer) i trained myself to tolerate when drawing SNAP, so if i’m also getting exercise and traveling by magic using the wind i expect to be pretty ok for a while
YY_Sima Qian
@Steve LaBonne: Also, notice Bessent made his comments at a private JP Morgan conference, & not to the public as he should.
The Audacity of Krope
@YY_Sima Qian: So people still believe Trumpies when they make mouth noises?
Remarkable.
sentient ai from the future
@Baud: “don’t promise what you can’t deliver” sounds pithy and shit but when the thing preventing him from delivering the benefit was SCOTUS’s refusal to interpret black-letter law in a straightforward way, or even in a way consistent with the contemporaneously expressed intent of congress, and instead manufacturing a bullshit doctrine with no precedent in law in order to prevent an unpalatable political outcome, well.
that’s the sort of thing that it’s really not possible to anticipate. and if you don’t see that the culpability for that outcome is entirely on the political right wing, then you’re not paying attention or you’re stupid, and either way, not worth wasting time on
The Limper
Who said the anti-Christ had to be smart and handsome or even self-aware?
Timill
@sentient ai from the future: You know, I hope, that the purpose of sailboats is to keep chandlers in the style they would like to be accustomed to?
Or so I was assured by a chandler from whom I was buying quite a lot of stuff…
Salty Sam
OK, THAT was awesome!
dww44
@WaterGirl: As do I and extend my heartfelt wishes for good outcomes to you and your child.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@prostratedragon:
VFX Lurker
I concur. That was awesome.
Jay
@sentient ai from the future:
Tide tables, current charts, yulow, the wind is often not kind.
Seafood will be a big chunk of your diet, bit you will also hunger for meat. A .22/410 over under, (.22 rifle, single shot, 410 shotgun under) and a subsidence permit adds grouse, ducks, rabbits, etc to the diet.
A key thing is deciding “when to move”. A safe anchorage can become a trap with a wind change. There are lot’s of fish on the West Coast, don’t think salmon, think flounder, another thing about the subsistence permit, you can use nets.
Greens, fruit and vedge are the key things missing. Lot’s of wild greens, if you know, lots of mushrooms, if you know.
I had marked up charts, where people had homesteaded during the depression. I would “glean” those spots, asparagus, apples, one time even peaches. Survivor plants, 50 years later, still hanging on.
Librettist
DeSantis and his wife are getting tossed on a political funeral pyre.
Librettist
It wasn’t the dopes who didn’t pay attention.
It’s the rich fuckers who funded this lunacy.
CHETAN MURTHY
@Librettist: ah, how so? Just so I can, you know, bask in it! I mean yeah
Gretchen
@WaterGirl: this morning https://balloon-juice.com/2025/04/22/tuesday-morning-open-thread-69/#comments
Librettist
@CHETAN MURTHY:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article304665166.html
$10 million of state funds right into his wife’s purse.
Jay
@Timill:
The old joke is that sailing as a hobby is like standing in a cold water shower while tearing up $1,000 bills.
I bought my old boat for $4K, pretty basic boat but butchered, and not “tech”. Put about $6K plus sweat equity to make it “compliant”.
Lived on it for 2 years after the tech crash, Salish Sea, Alaska, Haida Gwaii. West Coast of Vancouver Island.
A big thing is KISS. For many boat owner’s, it’s a vanity project. keeping up with the Jones, all the latest tech and toys.
Sold the boat for $12K
Baud
@Librettist:
Wow. She thinks she’s Brett Favre.
prostratedragon
@The Limper: Quite. There doesn’t have to be any element that we might consider seductive to draw in people who lack discernment.
Librettist
@Baud:
Favre didn’t challenge Maximus Dumpus.
prostratedragon
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Alas, no disguise is even needed; see @The Limper above.
CHETAN MURTHY
@Librettist: thank you! Huh, maybe they’ll get their comeuppance!
catclub
Paid for by Russia.
Harrison Wesley
If only LOML would come with me we’d be in Slovenia and away from all this shit.
Tim C
Honestly the “No Kings” seems like the kind of catchy slogan that makes for a good theme to organize around. It pulls the Trumpers into defending his shittiest stuff and gets them all triggered.
Way less stupid than “Let’s go Brandon”
Jay
@Harrison Wesley:
Fico is all in on ruZZia.
Jackie
@Librettist:
Ain’t it wonderful?! ;-D
Kayla Rudbek
@prostratedragon: I will repost this classic: https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
RevRick
@prostratedragon: @zhena gogolia:
I have to weigh in on this glaringly theological question. No, Trump is not the anti-Christ.
I would say that systems are more like the anti-Christ than any human could possibly be, though butchers like Genghis Khan and Stalin and Hitler and Pol Pot certainly deserve Hell, if anyone does.
If anything qualifies as the anti-Christ, it’s the ideology of white male supremacy; it’s the ideology that might makes right; it’s the belief that human beings half to earn their worth and dignity.
Donald Trump is too repugnant to be the anti-Christ. He has temporal power, and he has captured the loyalty of a significant chunk of the electorate, but that’s only because he offers that chunk the permission to be okay with the fruits of the anti-Christ ideology embedded in their minds.
If I’m honest with myself, I have to acknowledge that I have been seduced by the anti-Christ ideologies that the world teaches us are true and real. And how could I not be? I am a child of this world.
One of the slogans of the Protestant Reformation was simul iustus et peccator: we are at the same time justified by God’s grace and still sinners in need of God’s grace. We are all both healed and broken. And that health and brokenness is reflected in how we respond to life, how we treat others, the kind of assumptions we make about them.
My hope is that as I age I will, by God’s grace, become a less shitty person, a better person.
My point is that when we start judging other people, where do we draw the line? When does a human being move from being almost anti-Christ to full-blown anti-Christ? Who do we throw into the anti-Christ pile, and to whom do we say, “Well, you’re bad, but not that bad?”
I, for one, do not want that power to condemn, because, in the end, that’s how we get where we are.
And in case you haven’t noticed, MAGA is really good at hurling condemnation at women, Black people, “illegal” immigrants, Jews, non-Christians, the poor, libruls….
prostratedragon
@Kayla Rudbek: Who’d have thought the liar was such an assiduous reader of scripture?
Fwiw, I’ve been getting advance reportd for years. Makes one rather stoic.
prostratedragon
@RevRick: If disagreement is possible here, then maybe I do in part, although I usually take more abstract views of these concepts i.e. Holy Spirit as expressions of synergy, etc. If Jesus was a living embodiment of certain prinviples, then what we have here seems to be the oppodite. But it is not up to us as humans to dispose of the matter at that level, I’d agree; whatever it is, it is what it is. We have laws and institutions to try to impose such imperfect justice as we’re sllowed, but the rest is not up to us.
Bupalos
The public intellectual Vlad Vexler on YouTube does really excellent work on this.
Here’s the thing: People don’t understand how things work because things really don’t work, and don’t operate in any kind of transparent fashion. It’s an interaction on the one hand between things actually breaking, being broken, and becoming very complex, and on the other, people’s education, attention span, and personal capacity simply leaving them unable to understand the complex mess they are seeing in front of them called “the government.” He borrows Charles Taylor’s word “opacity” here and describes it as the most destructive of all the civic feelings, worse than not feeling safe, worse than betrayal by these institutions. People tend to go straight from here to wanting a strongman.
Lauryn11
WaterGirl
@Kayla Rudbek: yikes!
Liminal Owl
@schrodingers_cat: A great-uncle-by-marriage (who died before I was born) was reputedly a tankie back around the beginning of the Soviet Union. Towards the end of his life he had hopped across the horseshoe and was writing for Reason magazine.
AM in NC
@Jay: Well that all sounds cool AF. Not easy, but cool AF, and increasingly necessary skills, I’m afraid.
I can grow the hell out of a garden and harvest seeds for the following year, (also make and use crab/crawfish nets) but I wouldn’t be able to protect my homestead from marauders trying to take it all, should things come to that.
BUT, I’m good at reading schematics and fairly creative, so I figure I could “Nick Offerman in The Last of Us” some shit right quick.
fancycwabs
I haven’t seen any compelling evidence that he isn’t the Antichrist.
RevRick
@Liminal Owl: Consider how Lyndon LaRouche migrated all over the political landscape.
RevRick
@Kayla Rudbek: @WaterGirl:
The word apocalypse was not about an end of the world disaster, but about revealing or unveiling or disclosing.
In the book of Revelation, all the allegories about who anti-Christ was was pointing to the Roman Empire. But as for it being about an actual person, well, you have to trace the fate of the “kings of the earth” through the book. Early on, John of Patmos makes clear that they are the worst of the worst of humanity. Indeed, they are the ones arrayed against Christ in the nonbattle of Armageddon. (It really wasn’t a battle at all, it was a capitulation.)
Anyway, those kings then get tossed into the Lake of Fire with the rest of the world’s terribles, right?
Nope.
In Revelation 21:24 “the kings of the earth will bring their glory into (the New Jerusalem, where heaven and earth are one)!” They are part of humanity’s victory parade.
I shared some thoughts in comment #100
Uncle Cosmo
@Steve LaBonne: reminds me of a button I saw at a costume party many years ago:
jimmiraybob
Darned, I missed this last night.
I’ve been aware of this connection for a while – not bad for a heathen agnostic – and have talked to some pretty faithful Christians, including Pastors, and they all feel that Trump embodies the spirit of Anti-Christ as in anti the words of Jesus the Christ.
How anybody feels that Jesus is their savior and then knows nothing of or ignores his words ranks right up there. I have memorized the parable of the Good Samaritan and the Beatitudes for when I’m approached by evangelicals.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Bupalos: maybe people do not understand because other people are deliberately lying to them?
Perhaps the lack of comprehension is in part caused by our “both sides” MSM, too?
How can we fix anything when we cannot seem to communicate who caused what, much less why they caused it?
This is an information war imho