This is, obviously horrifying:
On Friday morning, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials in New Orleans deported members of two families, including young children and a pregnant mother, under circumstances that have raised serious due process concerns. Among those deported were three children who are US citizens, including a two-year-old who was born in New Orleans and a child with a rare form of metastatic cancer who’d been receiving treatment in the US.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) alleges that ICE did not allow the mothers and children detained to have substantial or any contact with attorneys and family members, including with the two-year-old’s father.
“If this is what the Trump administration is orchestrating just three months in, we should all be terrified of what the next four years will bring.”
“These families were lawfully complying with ICE’s orders and for this they suffered cruel and traumatic separation,” Mich P. Gonzalez, founding partner of Sanctuary of the South, which provides legal assistance, said in a statement. “If this is what the Trump administration is orchestrating just three months in, we should all be terrified of what the next four years will bring.”
I just don’t understand how so many Republicans simply refuse to understand how cartoonishly awful this shit is. It’s so macrabe, like the shit you see from Spanish Inquisition tv series or the Tudors and all that historifiction. Hell, the American West. You watch it thinking what an insane world that was why did the people put up with it and then here we fucking are. Maybe we will get a modern Count of Monte Cristo out of it all.
Here’s your quote of the day (gift article):
William McBride, a history professor, retired in January after 30 years at the academy.
He was invited to stand beside Admiral Davids on April 25 at the school’s annual Dedication Parade, where midshipmen don their dress uniforms and march with rifles to honor retiring faculty members.
But on Saturday, Mr. McBride, who graduated from the academy in 1974, declined the honor and fired off a broadside against the admiral.
The book ban, he said, was a “limitation on the intellectual inquiry of midshipmen” that “is contrary to the academy’s motto: ‘From Knowledge, Sea Power,’” and had damaged the school’s mission.
In an email sent to the admiral and shared with The Times, Mr. McBride accused the school of tarnishing its reputation by bending to political pressure.
He cited a line all incoming students had to memorize when he began his studies there 55 years ago: “Where principle is involved, be deaf to expediency.”
“No matter what you have done before,” he wrote, “your legacy will be that of a careerist who banned Maya Angelou but retained Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf.’”
Iconic. Sad, but iconic.
A lovely day here, and we spent it doing, well, little things. Cleaning, planning, picking things up, running errands, you know the kind of day when you look at the clock and you think how is it four pm already? Some moderate excitement at Joelle’s friend’s house in Antietam. Apparently there was a three foot rattlesnake beheaded in his front yard by a neighbor’s lawn guy. Buzz was quite relieved because he has two dogs, and apparently snake bites are really bad for dogs. I mean, obviously it’s always bad when your dog gets bit by a venomous snake, but apparently when dogs are the aggressor they often take a bite to the face and it is really, really bad and messy.
Buzz was telling us both this as we were sitting on the patio, and, of course, me being me, the first thing I asked was “is anyone going to eat it?” and Joelle immediately burst into laughter and said “that is the most redneck thing I have ever heard you say I can not wait to tell your sisters you said that they are going to roast you alive you hillbilly.”
I dunno what I was thinking I guess for some reason I had it in my head that rattlesnake was a delicacy in the same way people in Louisiana eat swamp critters of various types. I am pretty sure I will never hear the end of that.
At any rate, use this thread to bitch about me or someone or something else.
War for Ukraine Day 1,157: A Meeting of Some Minds
Suzanne
You can eat rattlesnake. Tastes like chicken.
Not a delicacy, more like an oddity. Chicken is easier.
ETA: there’s a couple of restaurants in AZ that serve it.
Jackie
@Suzanne: Everything tastes like chicken with the right seasoning.
TaMara
I had a Greyhound that got bit by a rattler. The vet said he was running so fast, the snake barely had time to inject venom – just enough to turn the poor boy’s inner thigh blue. Three saline IVs took care of it…good that we could avoid the antivenom.
Doc Sardonic
Can vouch for the taste of the Eastern Diamond Back Rattlesnake. It is quite good, bbq’s well and is a nice white meat similar in texture to a stringy chicken breast. Have never eaten sidewinder.
Sandia Blanca
@Jackie: as the Austin Lounge Lizards so memorably put it in “Tastes Like Chicken”: https://youtu.be/mO5eSmEJsVo?si=CCf4SfXh4CSUdHLN
zhena gogolia
Okay guess I’ll go to bed
SpaceUnit
I’ve eaten rattlesnake. Not quite like chicken. Chewier and less flavorful than crab or lobster.
Of course I ate it around a campfire as a kid, and it was prepared by a fairly drunk uncle. A skilled chef might be able to do something with it. Not sure raising rattlesnakes in mass as a food source is a great idea though. It could make a pretty good premise for a horror movie.
Pauline
I had a cat that was bitten by a rattler. He was missing his left eye and was bitten right above the socket. We figured that he didn’t see the snake when he was hanging around in the mesquite woods that were near our house. He did get the anti venom shot at the vet, so that had a happy ending. Tiger was a tough old coot.
VFX Lurker
I had rabbit and rattlesnake sausage years ago at Wurstkuche in Los Angeles. It was yum.
prostratedragon
Thank you, Prof. McBride!
Never had rattlesnake. This is not an accident. Or as they sometimes say, why not just eat chicken?
DK
There has been a Rattlesnake Roundup in Freer, TX for 60 years. Food, music and games. They used to have rattlesnake races. I’m not sure if they still do.
H.E.Wolf
One of my siblings was a counselor at a summer camp, and one of the camp cookouts featured barbeque chicken at several grill stations, each with a sign:
Rattlesnake – Dinosaur – Alligator – [random critter that I can’t recall]
“What does THAT taste like?!” from the campers got the consistent answer, “Chicken!”
JGreen
@Suzanne:
As Bob Goldthwait said years ago: “If it tastes just like chicken, then just give me some goddamn chicken”.
I’m not adventurous when I’m eating (as you may have guessed).
H.E.Wolf
I met a rattlesnake once when I was a teenager. Or rather, I met a shrub that was making a very identifiable rattling sound.
Nobody bit or beheaded anybody, thank goodness. It was “MYOB” day in that corner of NM.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@JGreen: you beat me to it.
Jay
We have rattlesnakes in the dry country of the BC Interior.
Never killed one, never eaten one, “rescued” lots of them.
They are a keystone species.
no body no name
On odd eats I had tarantula once. Was told it would taste like crab. I guess it could. I can see that. But torched on the end of the stick a dip it sure as fuck did not.
hrprogressive
They don’t recognize this is “cartoonishly awful” because this is exactly what they want.
They’re a white supremacist party.
Have been for some time.
That means as many brown and black people as they can get rid of is the goal, and has been for a long time.
“Due Process” and “The Constitution” hasn’t meant shit to them in a generation, or longer.
They are Big Mad the last century and a half of progress ever occurred, and want to turn back time.
And unless the rest of the Democratic Party and Normie Voters wake the hell up and understand this, I struggle to see how they don’t end up functionally succeeding in their goals.
NotMax
@Jay
Snakes on a plain.
;)
JGreen
@Mr. Bemused Senior:
Well, I’m glad someone else around here knows that one.
NotMax
A serving of schadenfreude.
Ex-US Rep. George Santos sentenced to over 7 years in prison for fraud and identity theft.
Old Man Shadow
@VFX Lurker: So did I! Loved it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@hrprogressive:
You’re acting as if the Democratic Party hasn’t already. It’s not like a US Senator went down to El Salvador to see Abrego Garcia, giving a huge press conference on the situation that made the news or anything…
Or hell, several House D Reps visiting the ICE detention facility in Louisiana
Neldob
As a child I ate some rattlesnake we grilled but it was tough as a tire. My dogs got bitten 3 or 4 times by rattlesnakes. Heads got really swollen, but with a shot of antibiotic for the puncture wounds and a few days of quiet they were fine. Amazingly. A friend of a friend got bit and had to walk out to her car and was in and out of hospital for a year I think.
sab
@NotMax: Well done ( the puns, not the snakes.)
Rob J.
The difference between ICE and runaway slave patrols is not meaningful.
mvr
@DK: These things (rattlesnake roundups or killing fests) aren’t great as rattlesnakes are actually just part of the food chain in the places they come from. But also these fests lead to rattlesnakes without rattles since that’s how people at these roundups recognize rattlers and then (un)natural selection sets in.
Rattlesnakes without rattles are more dangerous than rattlers with them.
Also rattlesnakes are better than ICE (to combine the themes).
lgerard
William McBride edited a book called Good Night Officially which is collection of letters written by a US Navy enlisted man to his wife during his service in the Pacific during WWII.
I recommend this highly.
West of the Rockies
Has anyone here ever met an ICE agent? They’ve gotta be the biggest a-holes in the world.
pinacacci
@Jay: yes. leave them alone! They TELL you. They shake their rattles. They don’t want to hurt you! They want to be left alone! THEY FUCKING TELLL YOU THAT. Rattlesnake roundups are an abomination. Leave rattlesnakes alone. They’re endangered and don’t need the bad publicity.
IdahoGoatGirl
My pony got bit on the nose by a rattlesnake. His face was so swollen he had a tube up his nose to breath. He was hospitalized for three days on fluids, had to have incisions on his nose to help drain the area and had nerve damage and could not properly eat for months. I had to feed him mash from my hand. He survived and is 25 years old now and spunky as ever. Our dogs get the rattlesnake vaccine. I had 8 of them show up last year and we had a friend relocate most of those but lived with one grumpy one, just out reach, under the chicken house. I have been watching for them since it is warming up. They are out and about at the rattlesnake mega den in Colorado, apparently you can watch them on rattlecam.org
Chief Oshkosh
Heather Cox Richardson discusses the historical setting of birthright citizenship, but her synopsis of events Friday morning, which are similar to what John writes here, is very hard to take. I don’t see how we can allow ICE to exist after this. But then, I thought the family separation policy of Trump I would have resulted in meaningful reform.
Pete Downunder
Lived most of my adult life in California and never met a rattlesnake (or any venomous snake). In the land downunder of the 10 most venomous snakes in the world we have all 10. I’ve only met two of them, the red belly black snake (which looks just as you would imagine from the name) which while highly venomous is pretty shy and not aggressive, and the eastern brown which is both highly venomous and very aggressive. One chased Mrs Downunder while she was on her tractor. Neither of us has ever been bitten but we carry snake bite kits in all the vehicles. The rule for snake bite is to tightly wrap the area above and below the bite to isolate the venom and stay still and call for help. Every hospital here stocks antivenom.
ETA Spelling
sab
@IdahoGoatGirl: What is hospitalizing a pony like? They can’t be in beds. Can they lie down, or do they stand up in a hospital stall?
sab
@Pete Downunder: I am amazed that people want to live in Australia despite its climate and its beaches. Epically hostile critters, and I grew up in Florida.
Ohio we have nothing except rabid racoons.
ETA And rabid bats. But both are rare.
Kayla Rudbek
“Maybe we will get a modern Count of Monte Cristo out of it all”
If we are lucky, we will get a hell of a lot of lawyers in the grandchildren and great grandchildren of these people who will tell stories about how grandma and grandpa were treated, if it’s anything like my family (great-grandparents had their two youngest children adopted away from them under dubious circumstances, great-grandpa was under surveillance because he was an enemy alien during WW2, there are at least two lawyers in my father’s generation and at least two in my generation)
Odie Hugh Manatee
I do and have known for years. The Republicans in office are only interested in their monthly government check, the job’s perks, the platinum medical coverage and staying in office for these goodies, all while demonizing fellow Americans and fundraising off of it. They aren’t there to do anything difficult or risky and standing up against Trump and/or for the wrong people can be career ending.
At this point they are nothing more than really expensive rubber stamps and windsocks. Like Trump, they don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves.
America First? More like Me First.
oldster
CITIZENS
CITIZENS.
They are deporting US CITIZENS.
They say they only want to protect us from criminal illegal aliens.
Then they start deporting illegal aliens who have committed no crimes.
Then they start deporting aliens who are here legally.
And now they are deporting citizens, and doing it without due process.
Professor Bigfoot
@Rob J.: American police culture was born in antebellum slave patrols and is carried in police union halls today.
Every cop from ICE to Sergeant Stedenko serves that culture.
There’s a reason why FOP were Trump’s first major endorsement.
Ksmiami06
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): unfortunately it’s not enough. The rest is up to us to shut it all down, rip the hearts out of the Republicans and stomp them into dust. Begin with elections, end with launching Elon and Rt wing media into the sun.
Ksmiami06
@Professor Bigfoot: defund it, go after the collaborstors
Professor Bigfoot
@Ksmiami06: The problem is that THERE WILL BE POLICING.
The question is whether it is done with the consent and cooperation of the policed— or whether the police are an occupying army.
For us, they are an occupying army; but at the same time we understand about crime and criminals and we don’t want them either.
Reform and demilitarize American policing.
WTFGhost
Hm. Maybe if y’all were out cutting long grass with a scythe, and had a small grill/hibachi, “is anyone going to eat it?” makes a bit more sense, since lunch is never quite filling enough, and, yes, I heard there’s good eating on a rattlesnake. Still, they are pretty darn small, relatively speaking – the idea that you could find a green stick, skin it, clean it, spit it, and nibble the meat after cooking it, as an add-on to lunch, makes a lot more sense than “ooh, we found a small bit of rattler meat, anyone hungry?”
So, yeah, I suppose you’ll never hear the end of it, but, if you had heard rattler was a delicacy to some (not unlike “rocky mountain oysters”), it’s reasonable to ask “ooh, there’s a delicacy to some; are there any of those folks here who are going to try it, so I can learn more about the joys of rattler?” It shows real culinary interest, and a proper interest in trying new things.
Plus, honestly, you have to admire the gumption of the first person to say “now that I killed this venomous creature, I’m going to eat it!” because that helped people understand the difference between “venomous” (using poison/venom), and “poisonous” (bad or deadly to eat).
No, really, linguistics was all they cared about. Not getting a small bit of meat where little meat might be found, except “on the hoof” which often means “your paycheck, whether from milk, meat, or wool.”
Yes, I know, you wonder, how did anthropologists determine that natives thought of herd animals as “my paycheck,” before they’d developed concepts of money, much less checking accounts, cash drafts, etc., but, you should trust me, because I’m writing this, and who are you to ask questions? A member of the press? Why, a loyal Republican can attack you with impunity!
Once you get to this stage, Cole, they’ll stop bugging you about rattlesnake, but there’s a whole bunch more you won’t live down. Just sayin’.
WTFGhost
@Professor Bigfoot: True, but I think you might be missing the main point, which is that “dear God, ICE doesn’t even care about citizens, much like the slave patrols didn’t care about “free Black person.” Maybe not a shock to you but one to the author.
@oldster: It’s not just “without due process” at this point. It’s “illegally.”
The courts have determined, due process is required. Now, until the courts weigh in, the President and the Administration have a high presumption of legality, by relying on the Office of Legal Counsel. Any opinion by the OLC is considered binding law, no matter how idiotic it is on the face (e.g., allowing “enhanced interrogation techniques” that our treaty obligations already acknowledge as torture)…
… UNLESS, and UNTIL, a federal court overrides the OLC. Because, if a federal judge says “this is the law, here are my orders pursuant to the law,” that is the law, that the President, and the Administration, is bound to see is executed faithfully, no matter whose opinion they are relying on, unless that “opinion” is that of a higher court judge.
So: Trump deporting people without due process is, on the face of it, clearly, and obviously, illegal. No one in the administration should be complying with these orders, with apologetic “respectfully, sir,” (tears in their eyes optional) “but NO” on their lips. “That order is unlawful, and illegal, per (court order)”.
Or, and I say this with sincere pain, or, they should go to jail, once their complicity is revealed. Loyalty to the President can never override loyalty to the rule of law, and the Constitution, both of which say the President must yield in the face of negative decisions
TONYG
Unfortunately, the fact that this type of thing is cartoonishly awful and cruel is something that Trump supporters (i.e., almost all Republicans) LIKE about this. The suffering of others makes them feel good. And this is not just the political leadership — this is the rank and file Good White American Christians who feel this way. If Trump were to drop dead tomorrow, these people would find someone else to be the focus of their hatred. The results of the last three presidential elections shows that almost half the people in the United States are hate-filled morons.
New Deal democrat
@WTFGhost:
It gets even worse:
“One of them is a 4-year-old with Stage 4 cancer who was deported without medication or the ability to contact their doctors…”
https://bsky.app/profile/paleofuture.bsky.social/post/3lnqysjgrw22y
The Audacity of Krope
Don’t be fooled by the fact they’re being brought out of the country. Trump is trying to make the whole world into the US’s plantation.
Professor Bigfoot
@WTFGhost: Oh, I can see that.
But to me it’s another manifestation of the “Niemöller Problem”— eventually they’ll come after YOU, regardless of your race, your status, your citizenship.
(I think you get that, tho.)
TONYG
@TONYG: … and, needless to say, the rank and file ICE agents also enjoy this kind of cruelty — or, at least, they will do what they’re told in exchange for a paycheck.
Professor Bigfoot
Lissen here, John Cole— I have long lived with the saying, “just because a man is a redneck does not mean he’s a white supremacist asshole. And those ‘rednecks’ who are NOT white supremacist assholes are cool as shit.”
You are cool as shit, John Cole, don’t let nobody ever tell you otherwise.
Smiling Happy Guy (aka boatboy_srq)
That’s the problem. We fed two generations Tudors, 24, Sopranos, Game of Thrones and the rest, and some segment watched all the ugly stuff and liked it. The brutality of that existence appeals to them.
lowtechcyclist
@WTFGhost:
I’m perfectly good with the colloquial usage of ‘poisonous’ for both. Because frankly the only time the distinction would come into play for most of us is if one is considering eating a venomous creature. And most of us can go a lifetime without that.
BellyCat
Woah…. That’s horrific. If you haven’t reviewed Armstrong v. Manzo (USSC 1965), check it out. The oral argument can be heard at Oyez and it’s amazing!
Miss Bianca
*I* think, “is anyone going to eat it?” and/or, “anyone got plans for the skin?” are *perfectly* cromulent questions to ask when regarding a recently deceased rattlesnake.
Guess I’m a hillbilly too, at this point!
Miss Bianca
@IdahoGoatGirl: *gulp*
Where, if I may ask, is the “rattlesnake mega den” in Colorado? (no, I *don’t* want to look it up, but I’ll probably have to.)
Matt
They understand, that’s literally their favorite part!
This is why I’m always skeptical about the “ZOMG LOOK HOW LOW DONNIE’S POLLS ARE” cheering – some of the people pulling the “disapprove” lever are furious that he’s not doing enough evil.
That’s also why I’m deeply unconvinced that outreach to these people can work: they are fundamentally opposed to civilization as an idea. This is not a “let’s agree to disagree on the correct configuration of marginal tax rates” kind of thing, they love evil and have no compunctions about lying, cheating and stealing to see it spread. They are not going to stop until they are MADE to stop.
Kayla Rudbek
@BellyCat: I’ll have to check that out. At least my grandfather’s siblings were kept in the same city and managed to make contact with their birth family again (there’s pictures from my grandparents’ wedding with them there, they were always invited to the twice-yearly family parties/reunions, etc). So great-grandma would always insist that she had 9 children, great-grandpa would say he had 7…
Kayla Rudbek
@Matt: yeah, this is why although I am glad that we have Unitarians and Quakers and Jains and other pacifists around, I think that they are very unrealistic about human nature. There are some people who are born narcissists and/or sociopaths who don’t have a better nature to appeal to, and a lot of them wind up in positions of power. The only way to constrain them is fear of punishment and loss of face/reputation.
artem1s
today is the 39th anniversary of the Chornobyl disaster. I’ve been reading various blogs and social media post today. Many have pointed out the correct (Ukrainian) spelling is Chornobyl and are asking people to use it instead of the Russian spelling so I’ll be using it in this comment. I’ve decided to rewatch HBO’s mini series not just because of the anniversary. I’m watch again because it’s a prime example of what happens to a country/society that denies truth and perpetuates lies rather than admit culpability or error or weakness. In the first episode there are numerous incidents of individuals who follow orders they know are dangerous and will kill them and others just because they have been indoctrinated to believe the worst evil they can commit is to say ‘no’ to the state. It took decades and the fall of the Soviet Union for the truths about Chornobyl to come out. In 2019 when the HBO documentary came out we could still point and laugh at the Soviets and Russians and say ‘look at how dangerous letting ‘business’ and politics and autocrats interfere with science can be’. Now we’re watching it happen up close and personal.
Kayla Rudbek
@BellyCat: the family story passed down was that one great-grandparent was hospitalized, great-grandmother had a nervous breakdown and was tricked into signing the adoption papers (she was an Italian immigrant and I think practically illiterate in English at the time). So the lesson was you need to have at least one lawyer in the family who can take on the system in order to defend your family’s rights.
As I said above, if we get through this time successfully, we will have a lot of the descendants of the deported immigrants who go into the legal profession, and they will be primed by their family stories to be trying to get justice out of the system (if they don’t rewrite the laws entirely)
different-church-lady
You know people who like body horror films? It’s like that — they think it’s fun.
Bill Hicks
Please don’t kill rattlesnakes. Apparently it is not as bad in the western US, but in the east they are threatened or endangered.
JaneE
Please tell your neighbor that they have a vaccine for rattlesnakes for dogs. It is not a complete protection, but it will reduce the affects of the venom. So far as I know it is only for dogs. If nothing else it gives you longer to get to the vet for the antivenom.
WTFGhost
@lowtechcyclist: Yes, but my brain was tainted by a charming little comic strip where a mouse says “EEK! A poisonous snake!” and, while the snake explains the difference, some creatures are poisonous, some are venomous, some are both, the mouse manages to dash away, rather than wait for the end of the lecture.
I learned one thing from good authors: steal without apology (but with proper and appropriate attribution, when you must).