Trying to keep my head above water, but the current shit show is really a challenge.
Leader Jeffries seemingly wants to put an end to Democratic representatives going to El Salvador, which I don’t understand in the slightest.
Jeffries Wants Dems to Put an End to the El Salvador Trips
HOUSE MINORITY LEADER Hakeem Jeffries was asked Monday whether Democrats should continue to advocate for the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and the other men wrongly shipped to El Salvador, by making the trip to the country to put a spotlight on the issue.
“Our reaction is that Donald Trump has the lowest approval rating of any president in modern American history,” Jeffries responded.
Screw that, how about if we think about all these people who are being kidnapped?
Anyway, here are two key people standing up for the rule of law. I plan to make time to spend 30 minutes watching / listening to this. As soon as I finish 5 hours of work I have to accomplish to meet a deadline by end of day.
What else is going on?
Chief Oshkosh
I don’t get it either. Fucking beltway. Once you’re inside of it, you lose touch.
Melancholy Jaques
My reaction: What is the approval rating of the Democratic Party? What are you & all other Democrats doing to make that number go higher?
Parfigliano
Maybe instead of ” the beltway” it’s who he is? Wonder what Pelosi would say/do?
Ben Cisco
Context:
Also, The Bulwark…
Harrison Wesley
I don’t understand. Do Democrats going to El Salvador raise or lower Trump’s approval ratings? Or are their actions irrelevant? Not clear.
frosty
@Melancholy Jaques: That was a really good answer. The Dem approval rating is nothing to crow about.
Eric
@Melancholy Jaques: exactly. Dems seem to miss the fact that Trump won in large part due to the Democratic party being unpopular, lacking specific vision. Dems as a whole seem only interested in polls instead of doing what’s right for the American people they represent. Although trump’s polling continues to plunge, Dems need to do more than rely on that to win elections.
Old Man Shadow
That’s a good statement.
It’s been 16 days since that statement and he’s still there.
Americans have the attention spans of a gnat.
We need you guys to keep shoving the issue of due process and Trump disobeying an order from the Supreme Court. We need you all to keep putting the faces of the victims in front of cameras. People need to see the four year-old cancer patient’s face. They need to see the 1 year-old separated from his mother and the crying mother. They need to be reminded of the family terrorized by ICE and the FBI in Oklahoma.
And they need to know that it all begins and ends with Donald J. Trump and his followers who are ecstatic about the State terrorism.
WaterGirl
@Ben Cisco:
“Thinly sourced” is not the same thing as your story is factually incorrect.
Baud
@Ben Cisco:
Bulwark sounds defensive.
Anyway, end of controversy.
WaterGirl
@Old Man Shadow: Yes to all of that.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Professor Bigfoot
@Ben Cisco: But see, feckless Democrats…
Ben Cisco
@WaterGirl: “spokesperson put out a statement calling it false.”
It would appear that the spokesperson called it false and thinly sourced.
MobiusKlein
The quote
From Jeffries does not support the sentiment in the statements above.
Ben Cisco
@Baud: “Bulwark sounds defensive.”
Uh huh. Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed.
Ben Cisco
@Professor Bigfoot: YUP
Jackie
I couldn’t find more information on this suggestion FFOTUS actually did this, or if it’s just a bunch of BS… I don’t subscribe to the NYT to read what’s what.
Did FFOTUS mention this in his ABC interview last night? I didn’t watch it.
Baud
@Jackie:
Sounds like Kabuki for the court.
“We tried.”
rikyrah
PHUCK THAT. MORE SHOULD BE GOING
bbleh
@Chief Oshkosh: Hey, they hung out on the Capitol Steps. For, like, hours! How is that not the epitome of courageous leadership?
I haven’t seen anything to disabuse me of my notion that the large majority of national Dems are calculating that the only people they might influence are low-info voters who have begun to sour on the Orange Guy, and that if the Dems do anything noisy or provocative then some of those people might be offended, so it’s best to do nothing. (Except ask for money, of course.)
Ben Cisco
This is on Brother Jeffries though. He knows what the media environment is, knows he cannot win with them. I would not have engaged.
Baud
@Ben Cisco:
Even if it were confirmed, it sounds like a debate over tactics, not over the underlying issue of whether Garcia should be returned to the US.
Baud
@Ben Cisco:
Jeffries wanted to talk about Trump’s 100 days yesterday. Not get distracted by other important issues.
Baud
dww44
I confess I am truly perplexed by congressional Dem leadership. Katherine Clark was on Morning Joe earlier speaking normal political inauthentic jargon about how Democrats know they lost the last election…., afterwards the panel was weighing in on how she never directly answered a question put to her by one of the centrist types on the panel. I didn’t hear the question but it seems that like Hakeem she never speaks to the real issues. Something is going on here as the two of them are good people. It’s like their responses are preprogrammed. Is this big donor speak because they are, as a group, just totally unable to meet the moment. Maybe they’re afraid of something?
prostratedragon
@Baud: Or even whether other Congressional Dems should visit. My sense of Jeffries is tha he does not talk off the cuff, period.
Citizen Alan
@Baud: It’s what I said just fucking yesterday!! Someone commented that Dems had to be absolutely perfect at all times to evade media attacks, and I said not even that would be enough if the media was willing to fabricate stories to make Dems look bad!
wonkie
In order to get media coverage Dems have to state stunts. The default of the msm is to cover whatever the pussygrabber tweeted and to cover REthuglicans. Dems have to practically do cartwheels and shoot up fireworks to be heard. The first trip to El Salvador got media attention. The second trip got less attention. A third one will be ignored. That means to keep a focus on the immigration aspect of Republican malfeasance a new tactic is needed. The new tactic could be a variation on a trip down there like maybe flying his wife down.
Meanwhile there are actions the media will never cover but which are essential like raising money for the defense of the incarcerated people.
The big rallies need to shift focus now too before they degenerate into people fucking with traffic or staying out at night and smashing windows.
Citizen Alan
I hate to say it, but when you put it like that, it’s not an entirely irrational point of view. I was in the bank the other day pulling out a few grand to put in a lock box at my house (you know, just in case) and mentioned in passing to the teller that I was worried about DOGE having access to my bank account because of their fuckery with the IRS. She looked at me like I was speaking Martian and remarked that she’d never heard of DOGE. These are the kind of voters we’re dealing with.
Baud
@prostratedragon:
I hate to say it, but the vast majority of people who see Dems trying to help others immediately think “they’re ignoring my problems.”
Republicans have made bank stoking that resentment.
piratedan
I could perhaps understand where Jeffries is coming from if someone wanted to run some sort of false equivalency between the trips to El Salvador and the immigrant snipe hunts on the Rio Grande done by the MAGA ICE Cosplayers, or if there was some meaningful action that they could take on legislation that is controlled by the GOP in regards to what is presented as a bill and the day to day work of the nation, but guess what, none of that shit is happening either….
So what is the play? How do you illustrate the flaunting of the Constitution on multiple fronts and get it into the awareness of the public at large… so Min Ldr Jeffries, what the fuck is the plan? At some point you have to throw down legislatively and the fact that we’re seeing them curb free speech, due process and freedom of religion and trying to scale back the rights of women, wtf are you doing? Sitting on the steps is all very nice and quaint, but are we running anything long run and anything to make the media stand up and take notice to illustrate that not only is the fat Orange Fuck disregarding the Constitution in direct opposition to the GOP platform of being the Law and Order Party, he’s screwing over the actual reasons for why the nation even fucking exists.
Happy to follow, but how about sharing with some of us what we can do to be more effective?
Baud
@Citizen Alan:
I don’t know what the right approach is but I agree that approach, if that’s what’s happening, isn’t irrational.
RevRick
@Old Man Shadow: This is a walk-and-chew-gum moment for Democrats. While Trump’s immigration policies are popular, when you drill down into specific situations, they become less so. On the definitely less so side is the deportation of American citizens, especially when there’s no due process.
On the other hand, Democrats are on the completely unambiguous side when it comes to the economy. The 1st quarter GDP figures have come out, and the economy shrank by 0.3%! It takes real talent to wreck a healthy economy, but Trump has managed to do it. And the longer his stupid tariffs continue, the more they will wreck the economy. And the worst is yet to come.
The result is that there’s been a 7% swing to Democrats in the generic race compared to November. And Trump is heading for record low approval in the shortest period of time.
Democrats definitely should head to West Coast ports and point to the lack of activity and loudly declare, “Trump did this.”
Bruce K in ATH-GR
I’m an outlier, but I want the Dems in Congress to treat Trumpists and their collaborators as though hanging is too good for them.
Fortunately, I am now intimately familiar with a state of mind and body that would be perfectly appropriate. The intubation, the restrained arms, the inability to communicate with more than finger gestures and moans …
Baud
@RevRick:
Impossible. Don’t people know how awful we are?
Jackie
The discussion you posted above, WaterGirl, is great and well worth the time watching! Thanks for posting it!
Professor Bigfoot
@Ben Cisco: No Democrat (except sometimes Senators Sanders and Warren) ever gets ANY benefit of the doubt.
It’s another facet of the ways in which Americans* do not examine the subtle ways in which whiteness informs their beliefs and choices.
Baud
RevRick
@Baud: Tell that to Harry Enten on CNN
prostratedragon
May Day call:
jonas
@Melancholy Jaques: The late night talk show hosts have been absolutely slagging Schumer the past few days for his appearance on a news program the other day (I think with Dana Bash) explaining how they’ve sent a “strongly worded” letter to Trump recently over whatever outrageous bullshit he had pulled that week. It was all Bash could do to keep from chuckling out loud.
Just shoot me.
stinger
So maybe I’m a normie, and I live in a state other than Maryland, and maybe my US Reps go to El Salvador anyway. That’s going to get covered on my local news, and I’ll learn more about Mr. Abrego Garcia (whom I might not have heard of because a normie and not a Marylander) and maybe even about related issues. Why would that be a bad thing?
Also, I note how the Bulwark’s subhed says “But Democratic leadership…” right after mentioning Cory Booker and the Hispanic caucus. Sorry, but I definitely consider Senator Cory “25 Hours” Booker part of Democratic leadership.
West of the Rockies
My kid works at a retail clothing store in Oregon. On Monday, because of tariffs, prices will go up 125%. I think people are going to very soon discover the idiocy of Trump. Prices go up, fewer sales result, stores close, unemployment goes up…
But, hey, gotta “own the libs”.
I’m feeling super misanthropic today.
matt
I’d prefer leadership that’s not a bunch of trimmers. That said Bulwark looks like they stepped in it with this story.
Baud
@West of the Rockies:
On the bright side, maybe more people will stop wearing pants.
Tim C.
Look, I’m not excusing anything. I think Jefferies is wrong on this…. but…..
In the next 2-3 weeks there’s going to be huge huge economic shocks. Maybe on the same level as COVID give or take. There’s about to be a whole lot of economic pain. This is a rational (if incorrect) strategy to have everyone at home, talking to constituents about the issues that are hurting them directly and not have it look like they care more about people in other places.
Yes. I agree. The fundamental assault on our liberties and the abuse and torture of people with or without due process is a nightmare betrayal of what the United States should be. I think we should be attacking on all fronts at once with these monsters.
cmorenc
IMO Jeffries’ thinking is that the threateningly turbulent domestic economic waters are the most damaging spotlight to keep on Trump, because he really has no effective way to push back against what people are experiencing directly at the grocery store, or effects of tariffs on their businesses, whereas the public is of two minds about undocumented aka “illegal” aliens or immigrants. They want the problem dealt with effectively, but more humanely than the way his Administration is going about it, which creates openings for Trump to counter and muddy the water. By hyphothesizing Jeffries rationale above, I’m not indicating I agree with him on this. Public polling is now consistently showing Trump taking on substantial damage on both fronts.
WTFGhost
For some reason, Democrats want to keep the issue on tariffs, which are a weak point, and help attack the idea that Republicans are good for business. In fact, some morons are saying that the CR kept the conversation on the Trump administration, and not on the Trump-demanded shutdown, because people wouldn’t be talking about tariffs, kidnappings, planes falling out of the sky and off aircraft carriers, economic downturns, and so forth, if there was a shutdown.
Now, the SCOTUS doesn’t care about bleeding the US like a stuck pig, and the SCOTUS doesn’t care about saving lives from disease, but it does seem to care about basic human rights, and the need for due process. So going to El Salvador, and putting public pressure on human rights, and the SCOTUS, is good. The sooner we prove the Trump administration is completely lawless, and will completely ignore the courts (rather than show them pure contempt), the better.
Trump can slowly strangle the rule of law; if Mr. Abrego Garcia is in El Salvador a year from now, NO ONE WILL CARE. If Trump is forced to slaughter the rule of law in front of witnesses on live TV, people might care
So I think the proper idea is to keep attacking Republicans on all fronts, but not forgetting the awesome imbecility of his tariffs, which never made any sense from the getgo, and made even less sense when he tried to implement them.
gene108
That’s because the constant coverage and attention to Trump’s rendition of an innocent man to El Salvador, without any due process scares the shit out of people and hurts his approval.
Seanly
When your enemy is making mistakes you don’t pause & let them regroup. You hit them harder until they have to withdraw from the field in a rout.
Old Man Shadow
@Baud: He talks a good game. As of right now, he’d be my favorite for 2028, as always, if there is an election.
gene108
@West of the Rockies:
I think tariffs are more about Trump’s belief other countries pay tariffs and bot importers.
Baud
Via reddit
Old Man Shadow
@RevRick: Exactly.
Everyone talks about vibes and narratives and those are made from stories.
People aren’t rational. They aren’t logical. Point out how immigration benefits them and their eyes glaze over. Show them ICE abusing women and children. Babies. Show them crying spouses. Show ICE arresting people who did things “THE RIGHT WAY”. Show pretty blonde women talking about being jailed for days and they’ll get the vibe that bad things are happening.
As you said, show empty ports. Show empty store shelves. Always with “Trump did this” in your statements.
Politicians are supposed to be great at finding cameras to put themselves in front of. Have someone out there every day telling stories and making people see the faces.
Jackie
@jonas: Did Schumer furrow his brow deeply as he said “strongly worded”?
JCJ
@prostratedragon: A while ago there was a college basketball player at Ohio State (excuse me, The Ohio State University) who named a group of players, himself included, who ended up with statistics that were a 1 and then 12 zeroes. He would play the final minute of a game when there was a blowout either way so his box score was one minute played, 0 points on 0-0 shooting, 0 rebounds, 0 fouls, 0 turnovers, etc. I wonder if he has clubtrillion domain names for himself
RevRick
@cmorenc: Jeffries is probably concerned about potential blowback if Democrats hitch their wagon on the “wrong” immigrants: those with criminal records or gang membership or drug trafficking. So, he’s worried about tainting the brand with advocacy of dubious cases.
One aspect of effective leadership is the capacity to disappoint one’s followers. So, he’s probably willing to endure the foot-stomping and angry noises coming from the most dialed in Democrats in order to keep the focus unambiguously on Trump’s most glaring failures.
Omnes Omnibus
Do you think that Jeffries doesn’t care about Abrego Garcia and the rule of law? The list of illegal and undemocratic shit that Trump is doing is nearly endless. How do you ration the effort to resist so that we get the maximum bang for the buck? There’s a little bit of “why do you hate waffles” about this contretemps imo.
JCJ
@JCJ: Edit window ate my edit. His group was called Club Trillion
Baud
If you go to Jeffries website, there’s a pop-up about knowing your immigration rights.
RaflW
It may just be spin, but Jeffries office has now said that the initial report was ‘thinly sourced’ and not correct.
The key point to me being that he/his people understand the blowback and either he really didn’t say it (and given the press incentives to promote “Dems in disarray” I am inclined to think this was manufactured for lefty delectation), or if he did say something along these lines, it’s clear that he is out of step with the Dem base and showing some willingness to correct course.
stinger
@Old Man Shadow:
Embedded journalists showing what was really happening in Vietnam, what injured US soldiers really looked like, how pointless the slog was, helped turn public opinion against the war.
Professor Bigfoot
@RevRick: As far as I can tell, this entire thread is presupposing that this Bulwark piece actually reflects the facts on the ground. We’ve no reason to actually give them any “benefit of the doubt.”
Beyond that, there’s never any thought that maybe these people have a reason for the decisions they take other than a rabid impulse to disappoint them. Because Democrats never get any “benefit of the doubt.”
p.a.
Welp, here we are, to overcome literal fascism in the US we have to root for economic disaster, not quaint notions like “justice”, “democratic norms”, “rule of law”, “concern for others” from our eeeh fellow citizens.
So do whatever you can to monkeywrench the economy. No spending beyond bare necessities- we may get there soon enough anyway.
USA! USA! USA!🤢
Jackie
@gene108: What to make of this? Again, NYT so I can’t read it to answer my own curiosity.
RaflW
@RevRick: Trump’s immigration rhetoric on the campaign trail was popular. But recent polling suggests he’s blowing that.
Not huge movement, but 49-50 wasn’t great even in March. People liked that he talked tough, but actually doing nasty things like shitting on due process or using foreign gulags is turning out to be less fun than running his pinched, ugly mouth.
prostratedragon
Jaime Raskin yesterday at House Judiciary Committe:
Raskin summarizes the things the members of Congress have already done in their capacity as such to oppose these actions, given that the majority party refuses so far to join them. They need 4 House Republicans to take the next step.
oldgold
The dems need to get their asses out of DC. Do things like working a day for Meals on Wheels, attending Head Start classes, visiting cancer/alzheimer’s research centers, visiting ports along the west coast. While doing these things talk to the people. If they can’t get national coverage, they will get local. Local news stations are starved for things to cover.
rikyrah
WTF
Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) posted at 10:50 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
Lutnick: “The attention on the Trump gold card — I mean, it makes me very popular. Last night, I was out for dinner and somebody came up and said, ‘Can I buy 10?’ And I’m like, that’s pretty good, that’s $50 million for dinner. So it’s paying for my dinner.” https://t.co/TIaxO2bTDG
(https://x.com/atrupar/status/1917607590906732970?t=KqXG4qQOMLbUJOtxogsKUQ&s=03)
rikyrah
Jon Favreau (@jonfavs) posted at 11:52 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
Wow. Trump’s deal with Bukele was for convicted criminals only, but Bukele quickly realized that’s not who he was getting: https://t.co/ZfbY2ZUxJA
(https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1917623006509293643?t=tyaJknZuBwKD_lHlfFiUyA&s=03)
rikyrah
Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) posted at 8:06 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
Trump owes his presidency and freedom to due process.
Now, he’s shredding this foundational constitutional right for everyone else.
Commentary: https://t.co/lvhgpbIL73 https://t.co/mwKYcvMO2M
(https://x.com/RollingStone/status/1917566104014315544?t=9vjHA57MX4GDc2yndC-bkQ&s=03)
rikyrah
Because. they are unqualified, mediocre hires who got the jobs because of supporting the Orange Menace.
Spencer Hakimian (@SpencerHakimian) posted at 0:04 PM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
I have a lot of friends both in New York and Washington DC at investment banks, commercial banks, hedge funds, pension funds, etc. that get face time with the administration.
They are almost all unanimously telling me something similar and very disturbing.
Regardless of the policies the administration is attempting to implement, the actual level of competence (especially amongst lower/career staffers) is simply not there.
They say that this is a stark contrast from 2017, when Trump first came in and largely just left Obama’s infrastructure in place at the Treasury, IRS, Commerce, Trade, etc.
This time around, Trump came in and purged the lifelong employees at these places and replaced them with people he owed favors to on his farewell tour.
People that are just simply unqualified to be doing these gloryless jobs.
Regardless of the merits of the actual policy changes, nearly everyone I speak to is saying the incompetency, lack of sophistication, lack of substance, and the elementary level understanding of the global economy and global capital markets, is stunning them on a daily basis.
I cannot get into specifics here, out of respect for my friends privacies, but the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, and Bloomberg have all begun reporting on this open secret in depth in the past couple of days.
Feel free to cross examine me with their reporting!
(https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1917626195895537715?t=Ii4awIpTRO33zdSrq6EGZw&s=03)
Jay
@Jackie:
A couple of weeks ago, Bukele suddenly realized that the ICC still exists.
prostratedragon
@JCJ: What we have in the Executive branch right now is certainly garbage time of a sort.
rikyrah
FOH
Fred Krueger (@dotkrueger) posted at 9:22 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
“The new model is where you work in a factory for the rest of your life, and your kids work there and your grandkids work there”
— Howard Lutnick, net worth 3.1 Billion
(https://x.com/dotkrueger/status/1917585476669825280?t=gBVpkAIWyN5Ve0pQvXwLzg&s=03)
Kelly
We’re making some major purchases this week anticipating supply chain chaos soon. We bought a new 2025 Ford Maverick to replace Mrs. Kelly’s 2008 Pontiac Vibe. It’s been in the budget for a couple years . Ordered a new dishwasher. I’m currently researching heat pump water heaters.
rikyrah
Molly Ploofkins (@Mollyploofkins) posted at 8:18 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
What did Musk get during his tenure at DOGE? Here’s a start…
– Starlink Broadband: $42 billion
– Starlink for the FAA: $2.4 billion
– Golden Dome: Unknown billions
– NASA telescope launch services: $100 million
– Launch provider for the military: $6 billion
– Eliminating pesky investigations: $2.37 billion
– Free Tesla advertising
– Government data: Priceless
(https://x.com/Mollyploofkins/status/1917569123695079845?t=iJmKOoWeWrEk7eONehclzQ&s=03)
rikyrah
THEE ENTIRE PHUCK!!!
abby (@abby4thepeople) posted at 7:58 PM on Tue, Apr 29, 2025:
Today a lawyer for the DOJ stood in front of the Supreme Court and argued that it is simply too dangerous for an FBI agent to take the time to confirm that they are at the correct address or even on the correct street before conducting a raid
(https://x.com/abby4thepeople/status/1917383022443389087?t=OcIer5QUI6XyRb_Ns1Erdg&s=03)
RaflW
Update: Jeffries spox went on Twitter (ugh) and called the Bulwark report “patently false”. So my earlier surmising that this was easy click-bait because close Dem-watchers are primed for ‘it’s weak sauce’ stories was probably right, and as others here have similarly said “Oh, Bulwark. Uh huh.”
There are reasons to worry about Jeffries, but (and I say this to me, too, because I got swindled on this an hour or so ago on Bsky) we need to be careful about these betrayal “scoops”.
Ruviana
apocalipstick
@stinger:
Yeah, the Bulwark is a bunch of people who think everything was hunky-dory in the GOP until the second tRump stepped on the escalator. They are no more friends than the Lincoln Project.
rikyrah
Oversight Committee Democrats (@OversightDems) posted at 9:47 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
BREAKING: GOP Rep. Mike Turner says he OPPOSES his party’s terrible bill which will strip federal employees of their hard-earned pensions.
“I do not think that it is fair and it represents either Republican values or American values.” https://t.co/EFSTDjoHZ3
(https://x.com/OversightDems/status/1917591568086639103?t=3kNeKrzUHSGOkk1iEKnZig&s=03)
Ruviana
Duplicate. Deleted.
rikyrah
Anna Bower (@AnnaBower) posted at 9:35 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
NEW: Judge Xinis DENIES an additional request by the government to further stay discovery in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case. https://t.co/Ez63rFcSaz
(https://x.com/AnnaBower/status/1917588556706386184?t=UvZFB684Jz-nNf2eXd0mRQ&s=03)
rikyrah
Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) posted at 11:13 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
Trump’s public on-camera Cabinet meetings are simply occasions for him to gather each member together so they can go around the table and give a short speech about how amazing and perfect he is, then it adjourns.
(https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1917613227191447895?t=JOZMS1RXLDKdKT57mhIY7A&s=03)
rikyrah
Elie Mystal (@ElieNYC) posted at 10:23 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
Donald Trump’s “Unleash the Cops” executive order is being rightly read as a prelude to martial law. But don’t miss the other thing it’s doing: making the cops functionally unaccountable when they commit crimes.
My latest in @thenation
https://t.co/OiwLcSc47Q
(https://x.com/ElieNYC/status/1917600648641577199?t=RqyCtw5SFPLscHcQZvpReA&s=03)
WTFGhost
@dww44: Well, the fundamentals of the last campaign were strong, and Democrats still got creamed. There’s no kinder word for it.
Now, part of it might well have been back in July, when the entire Democratic Party went crazy – no matter which side you were on, the party was split, and talking crazy, and did crazy shit that no one else ever did – and that probably was why Democrats got the shit kicked out of them.
I don’t want to relitigate that *particular* fight AND I’m not here to discuss PRIMARIES.
I’m here to say “our donors halted, our politicians caved, and our party started talking total nonsense about shitcanning our candidate and putting in someone else.”
For the pro-Harris side, everyone agrees Harris did well – I’m not disrespecting her, or her campaign.
I’m saying: our donors froze up, our politicians didn’t push them super-hard, and, started acting cowardly, and, nationally, we had an entire vote of NO CONFIDENCE in the Democratic Party.
We didn’t have confidence in our primary; we didn’t have confidence in our candidates doctors; we didn’t have confidence in our candidate; we didn’t even have confidence in Harris, with people floating ideas about “mini-primaries” and still trying to kick Joe Biden out.
That is the biggest, the most historical (or, if you will, unprecedented, ahistorical) event in the campaign, and everyone is wondering, “maybe we should have shit on Black people and immigrants more!”
No, we shouldn’t have displayed that we, ourselves, didn’t have any confidence in our candidates, and played right into Republican hands.
I know – some of you will respond with some form of argument regarding July, but keep in mind, all I’m saying is that July shouldn’t have happened, so, you can pretend, in your own brain, that July didn’t happen for another reason – primary, post-primary voluntary step-down (in spite of him showing better physical and mental health than Trump), different timing of Joe Biden’s cold, better debate training with Harris, whatever – and reason things out.
I don’t know why anyone sees any lesson but that, but, people are dull, sometimes. Or, maybe, they’re so deeply wounded over July, they won’t consider that it was a self-inflicted wound, because it took so much energy and emotional intensity to ignore it, and pretend it didn’t exist, for a desperate final three months of campaigning, prior to a complete loss. I mean, if you cut off your arm, to get out from being pinned, and can’t fire your rifle properly, you’ll be screaming so loud at yourself to FIRE THAT RIFLE that you’ll probably forget the reason you got captured was “I had to cut off my own arm,” and instead say “I couldn’t steady my rifle with just one hand.”
Same kind of principle. Try to pretend the desperate act didn’t exist. Well… it did exist. And no, it wasn’t okay, it wasn’t the right decision to debate changing candidates in the first place, nor to have a mid-july battle over who. Fu… fu… FORGET which side you were on, seriously, just agree, ” if, for whatever reason, July didn’t happen, Democrats would likely have done much, much, much better at the polls, even if they didn’t win top of the ticket… except for July. If Harris had been campaigning since primary season, she’d have had time for people to get over racism and misogyny; if another candidate had replaced both Biden and Harris, there’d be no Biden/Harris shakeup; even if Biden continued to run, we might have a 50/50 Senate, or weak control of the House.
So we have Jeffries explaining that maybe we shouldn’t take the shot, thinking we only have one arm, but that fighter got captured, remember, she couldn’t hold her rifle steady with just one hand. We can take a clean shot, and we should. In my opinion.
rikyrah
FactPost (@factpostnews) posted at 1:30 PM on Tue, Apr 29, 2025:
Lutnick: It’s time to train people not to do the jobs of the past, but to do the great jobs of the future. This is the new model where you work in these kinds of plants for the rest of your life, and your kids work here and your grandkids work here https://t.co/CU8a4HZyil
(https://x.com/factpostnews/status/1917285325870686566?t=T2CvfwQKHnklDSfdgYXsUQ&s=03)
Boston Smalls (@smalls2672) posted at 7:45 AM on Wed, Apr 30, 2025:
Company towns. He’s talking about recreating company towns. The whole family will work the factories. Along with the children because they’re going to destroy public education and make it either a religious or private affair. Only those who can afford an education will get one. The rest will be in the new factory. Why do you think red states are rolling back child labor laws.
(https://x.com/smalls2672/status/1917561040470172090?t=FHgtStkdA9m-peOBRU0roA&s=03)
One of André Leon Talley's Fifty Pieces of Monogrammed Louis Vuitton Luggage
Jeffries’s office initially declined to comment. But after the publication of this piece, a spokesperson put out a statement calling it false. The spokesperson, Christie Stephenson, said the item was “thinly sourced,” leaving out that their office did not initially push back when contacted prior to publication.
Seems like a competent “office” would get it right the first time instead of waiting for piece to be published.
jowriter
@rikyrah: This is meaningful. Out of a need to find out what the rest of the financial/political world is thinking about current events, I took advantage of a very inexpensive subscription to the Financial Times, which is great for global perspective. I can confirm that their pages are full of anti-Trump administration policy articles and editorial opinions, growing stronger with more strident headlines every day. Of course, the orange menace has his fluffers, but they are much muted these days.
prostratedragon
@rikyrah:
Frau Blücher actually seems to have a problem with that.
Ohio Mom
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: Did I miss something? Have you been in the hospital?
I just woke up from a nap, so not firing on all cylinders…
Baud
@RaflW:
Thank you for the update.
prostratedragon
Can underwear be far behind?
tobie
@Ben Cisco: The first thing I thought when I saw the piece was that this was hearsay and I’ll wait till confirmation. Thanks for posting this response. It’s so easy to assume the centrists are shitting on everything. It’s a meme. It’s the reflexive habit we’ve settled into. It benefits two groups: Republicans and progressives who want to take over the party.
ETA: Stories like these are starting to seem like an organized campaign to take down Dems. Can we please exercise some restraint before broadcasting them?
WTFGhost
@rikyrah: “Please nullify the 4th Amendment because the 2nd Amendment makes it too dangerous for us!”
@RaflW: Is that what that was? I saw it as “that’s dumb,” but, someone mentioning the source really does explain it. Yes, watch out for really stupid things that suggest we shouldn’t be hammering Trump. That said: remember that Democratic politicians have less freedom than random shit-stirrers, like us. They can’t threaten to primary a Ghost (though I’m hardly as ghostlike as I should – I’m not on a VPN and I used a real e-mail address). When we get loud enough, the polis will act.
elliottg
@Ben Cisco:
He could really kill the story by going himself or specifically requesting/forming a delegation to go. But he won’t.
Baud
@elliottg:
He has more important things to do than kill fake stories by taking trips.
He’s said it’s false. The ball is in Bulwark’s court to provide evidence.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: The way Jeffries keeps getting targeted here is really annoying me.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
This.
WG, any chance you might update the OP to include some of the pushback? Otherwise, we’re just broadcasting this questionable assertion against Rep. Jeffries here on the front page.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@elliottg: Talk about moving the goalposts…
Baud
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
The goalposts are now in El Salvador.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Something has to distract us from the latest news about how Trump is ruining everything.
jonas
@gene108: I’m not sure that your average low-info white voter who isn’t a Democrat gives that much of a shit about Abrego Garcia — they figure he must have done *something*, amirite? Where this is killing Trump is with Hispanics, a demographic that shifted more towards him than any other since 2020 and actually believed his bullshit that he was just going to target hardcore criminals. And that’s before they register the huge price hikes and consumer good shortages heading their way.
jonas
@Jackie: I think Jordan Klepper on TDS actually did do a cutaway from Schumer to Collins on the Senate floor expressing “deep concern” about this or that and it got a big laugh.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: rikyrah is not helping with her tweets!!! (I love her)
Citizen Alan
@rikyrah: I think I would have killed myself in despair if I’d fathered a child that had to grow up in this rotting corpse nation.
Martin
Democrats need an economic message and not get too bogged down in this story. Right now it’s making good progress in the courts and that’s where Democrats should keep the focus. They don’t need to be doing photo ops in El Salvador. They needed to bring the focus there and they did that. The focus is now on whether the courts have any authority and on the economy.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Ohio Mom: Got carved into on Tuesday of last week. Just got released this past Monday. Month of recovery ahead of me.
Professor Bigfoot
@Baud: Like I said.
No matter what, “THEY’RE DOING IT WRONG.”
And I’d bet my last ten bucks that, as usual, it’s a white dude making the demand. 🙄
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Citizen Alan: Don’t do it! Your hypothetical child needs you!
The Audacity of Krope
The quote does not support the claim.
Interesting Name Goes Here
…So now we’re supposed to hate Hakeem Jeffries again?
Y’all have fun with that.
Professor Bigfoot
@tobie: What bothers me most is how easily the narrative of “feckless, useless, disappointing Democrats” ALWAYS seems to be believed.
That’s what’s appalling. Just like Charles Stuart was believed when he blamed a random Black man. Or like how Susan Smith was believed implicitly.
Here it’s just disappointing.
Baud
Professor Bigfoot
@zhena gogolia: And y’all wonder why I’m so fucking pissed off all the time?
Omnes Omnibus
Everyone here who has not chained themselves to the White House fence is resisting the wrong way. Prove me wrong.
Martin
@Professor Bigfoot: It would help if mild criticism wasn’t received as some kind of good/evil, hate/love thing by so many Democrats.
The Audacity of Krope
@Professor Bigfoot: Even if you believe the quote was taken accurately, the quote has nothing to say on the specific claim.
There’s some real Fox News style sleight of hand going on right here on Balloon Juice.
Baud
@Professor Bigfoot: 100%
@Professor Bigfoot: Take care of your heart.
@Martin: I don’t think it would make a damned bit of difference.
Professor Bigfoot
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: DO THAT. Get on that recovery, and know there’s folks cheering for you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Professor Bigfoot: I always figured you just had anger management issues.
The Audacity of Krope
This is also true, many act as though Republicans being as bad as they are makes Democrats immune from criticism. That is wrong.
But claims need factual support. I see none here.
Professor Bigfoot
@Martin: Like saying that the Minority Leader is trying to keep his members from visiting El Salvador, thus apparently throwing someone’s rights down the river?
Nah, brah, this is a shit ton more than “mild criticism.”
Professor Bigfoot
@Omnes Omnibus: Now did I say it wasn’t managed?
I assure you, it is WELL managed. 😉
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Professor Bigfoot:
@Omnes Omnibus:
One thing I’ve sort of really come around to, particularly in recent months, is how much white people truly have no fucking idea of what corruption and having the deck stacked against them is…and now they’re getting a big, strong, forced swig of that drink, and they don’t like it.
The Audacity of Krope
But they still don’t actually know what it is and can’t recognize it beyond “people I don’t agree with exercising power.”
Professor Bigfoot
But then they tend to blame all the wrong people. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Eyeroller
One of the many, many reasons I would be a terrible politician is that I don’t know how to thread this needle, but most Democrats have been very passive and some have verged on collaborationism. That observation is unrelated to what Ldr. Jeffries may or may not have said. I have heard reports or at least rumors that consultants have been telling them to keep quiet and let Trump fail, apparently under the assumption that the public will draw the correct conclusions on their own and then we won’t have offended anybody. Some Ds have made a few stabs at political theater but it’s obvious most are uncomfortable with it. But as has been said here, and at other sites, and in the real world, most of the electorate do not think analytically. They think in narratives and images. We’re bad at providing those. And also bad at understanding how the boffsiderisms of the media work to our disadvantage.
For example, there was a kerfluffle of which I just learned. Gretchen Whitmer lobbied Trump to keep a military base open in Michigan and he stopped there during his visit. OK, she’s a governor, she has to work with Trump, especially since he won the state. But she hugged him when greeting him at the airport. The optics of that are really bad. A polite, official handshake would have been appropriate, but a hug seemed entirely uncalled for (as well as playing into femine stereotypes).
Of course, even shaking hands with Trump is dangerous since he does that “dominance pull” but she didn’t have to embrace him.
Pritzker seems to get it but has the luxury of being in a blue state. He’s still at least making noise. I don’t think the electorate, not even Ds, would have a problem with his wealth but I do worry about prejudice against short, fat Jewish people. JB also doesn’t try to lie about or cover up his proportions.
PatD
@Ben Cisco: You see, you can test this by seeing if any House Dems proceed to make the trip or if any others who planned to do so end up canceling. And it’s fair to ask why and how much more Dems will invest to make this costly for Trump and Republicans.
WTFGhost
@Professor Bigfoot: Fascinating.
You can search the ツcharacter in a search engine, and it comes up with both the character name, and “how to type the shrug emoticon on every platform.”
Search engines can be useful, sometimes.
PatD
@Baud: Like what though? He’s in the minority at a time when Dems have no input on legislation. There’s nothing to vote on. What else do you think he’s doing?
Baud
@PatD:
Anything he’s doing is more important than trying to disprove false media allegations.
PatD
@tobie: Why would Dems be taken down by this one day story? A story that would be absolutely wrong if a Dem makes the trip tomorrow or next week.
Omnes Omnibus
@PatD: True, we should let publications like The Bulwark set the agenda for the Democratic leadership. I am sure that would yield the results we want.
elliottg
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Ok. if you think I’m criticizing Jeffries specifically, then how about Chuck Schumer doing something
@Baud: Really? better things to do? Fighting in public is the most important thing. He had time to do a sit-in on the Capitol steps (rightly so). He could call for a delegation without actually going himself and spend no time doing it.
Interesting Name Goes Here
@Professor Bigfoot: Naturally.
Hate that I have to say that, but I’ve yet to be proven wrong. Even the whole Schumer mess over his opposing the shutdown is on a (shaky) path to vindication with the impending economic troubles being placed almost squarely on Trump and Musk. Gee…it’s almost like taking the path of a Star Trek redshirt might not be the best idea.
This is why I’m increasingly…fed up with how so-called progressives are acting lately, because the only tactics they seem to embrace are indignant rage and Zerg Rushing.
PatD
@Baud: I’m more interested in whether the story could be true seeing as the polling (and the optics etc) favors Dems. I’m sure there are squishy Dems who think increased focus on Garcia and being attacked as soft on migrants could hurt them in their districts.
Baud
@elliottg:
He doesn’t have to do anything though. Maybe someone will go down or maybe not. But it’ll be on our terms and on our timing, not the media’s.
Baud
@PatD:
I couldn’t care about this story at all, now that it has been debunked.
Suzanne
@rikyrah:
So this is just more culture war shit, right? How many people — immigrants, racial minorities, religious minorities — have very proudly worked shit jobs so that their kids could be successful?! A friend of mine who works in public health just lost her father…. he was an undocumented migrant farmer so she could go to college. The couple who owned “the ethnic deli” who put their kids through law school. That’s an American story. Heck, that’s my grandparents.
It’s a specific flavor of white people who have this intergenerational dream of labor. They’re the same people that JD Vance and his crew are trying to call “heritage Americans”.
prostratedragon
@Baud: Support your local artists.
Professor Bigfoot
@WTFGhost: Wouldja believe… I have it set up as a macro on all my Apple devices?
It takes a lot more characters, but it also seems to have more character than the usual shrug emojis.
PatD
@Omnes Omnibus: No, no one said that but keep putting words in my mouth. Stories like this foster discussion. I think it’s worth considering whether Dem leadership sees advantage or danger in continuing to make Garcia a story.
PatD
@Baud: I guess we’ll see.
lou
This is a sobering piece from a trans writer who is moving overseas. She is not identifying herself, but said she’s an expert on democratic decline, fascism and genocide.
I’m hopeful we’re not as far down the path as she says but one of the points is “the failure of opposition to meaningfully coalesce.” She cites Gavin Newsom and Chuck Schumer as examples.
Professor Bigfoot
@PatD: In other words, you believe the Bulwark “article” means Jeffries needs to be investigated just in case.
Omnes Omnibus
@PatD: You asked what else he had to do. There is, at the very least, an implication in it that he should spend his time responding what The Bulwark said. That’s allowing them to set his agenda.
Jay
@Suzanne:
Interestingly, this does not apply to his two kids, whom he appointed CEO’s at his Hedge Fund, (24 and 28) after an exhaustive global search for the most qualified candidates.//
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Tumbril waiting for Mr. Luttnik.
What a tool.
And I miss Villago Delende Est.
Suzanne
@Jay: Rules never apply to rich and well-connected people.
If y’all are not familiar with the rhetoric around “heritage Americans”, I recommend digging into it. It’s incredibly upsetting. It’s white nationalism, of course, but with some extra wrinkles.
WTFGhost
@PatD: Lots of stories *could be true*. Mr. Abrego Garcia might actually be a deep cover member of a gang, and the government might be right, even though it has no evidence.
We live in a world created by stories that “could” be true, many of which appear blatantly false, to all available evidence, and yet, people hold them up, as if they were primo evidence of an unanswered question, rather than the rotting turd they actually are holding up.
We need to recognize, and scorn, those who shove rotting turds in our faces.
Matt
What’s hard to understand about “Jeffries is fine with what’s happening, and would prefer to talk about it less”?
Most of the national Dem leadership is overjoyed at the prospect of being the Washington Generals to Trump’s Fascist Globetrotters, just as long as those donor checks continue to clear.
Elizabelle
The Bulwark wants to pull down Trump AND Democrats. They can be rather ugly and skew information.
Steve Schmidt is also doing this.
Elizabelle
@Matt: You are tiresome, aren’t you?
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@Ben Cisco: As has been pointed out, even without that added context, (thank you for that, by the way) the quote at the top doesn’t even make it look like Jeffries was saying anyone should or shouldn’t do anything. At worst it made him look like he was dodging the question.
@Professor Bigfoot:
This.
@RaflW:
This. This community is supposedly a bunch of of cynical, bloodthirsty jackals who know there is no liberal media. But we’re supposed to believe everything we hear about why Democrats suck? Like there’s no propaganda push to try to downplay or distract from the Right’s monstrosities?
Y’all. Come on now.
@tobie:
Or IOW this.
@zhena gogolia:
This.
Jackie
@Eyeroller:
Never forget what embracing Obama did to Christie’s career. Whitmer’s term-limited as governor, but if she has other political aspirations…
Martin
@Professor Bigfoot: I don’t think it’s necessary to visit El Salvador to achieve the goal. There are now dozens of suits in the courts to restore the rights of these individuals. Its made it to USSC. It’s in the news every day. Democrats did the necessary thing, time to let it play out and focus on other issues.
Again, Democrats need an economic message because that’s the thing about to hit voters in the face. They don’t have one and they haven’t had one for a long time, and they aren’t going to find that message in El Salvador.
Professor Bigfoot
@Martin: But IS there a “message” that white people will actually hear?
Or will they blame women and minorities and Democrats as is their wont?
Ben Cisco
@tobie: Happy to help!
gene108
@jonas:
There’s an election deciding group white low info independent voters who go by “vibes”.
If the headlines are blaring “Hillary’s emails”, they’ll feel something bad happened.
If the headlines are blaring “Trump sends innocent man to El Salvadoran prison”, these folks will start noticing Trump doing a bad thing.
I think a lot of B-J frustration with the MSM is how their headlines and stories influence these low info independent voters. All the MSM focus on “inflation bad, what’s Biden doing” had an effect on these voters, as opposed to the dearth of stories on low unemployment and an expanding economy.
Endless repetition is needed. This is why Republicans dominate political narratives. They get a “chew toy” like Benghazi and hang on to it for four years relentlessly hinting there’s a coverup.
Ben Cisco
@Baud: And on
skateswaterskispontoons.Elizabelle
@Martin: no Democratic message? Wasn’t Build Back Better that? What about all the infrastructure spending?
Also, the Trump Musk show is historically corrupt. Time to talk about how regulations PROTECT the average American.
But. Democrats. The dumbest and most ineffective motherfuckers out there. Always.
Ben Cisco
@PatD: I am waiting to see if/who does make the trip.
Suzanne
@Elizabelle:
A message about one’s specific bank account would be helpful. Repeated about 38,000 times.
Elizabelle
@Suzanne: OK. What would that message be?
Suzanne
@Elizabelle: I don’t know, maybe a list of five specific policy points with dollar amounts attached. Not abstract stuff like “we’re gonna spend on infrastructure and stimulate the economy”. Say “this is what I am doing to put money in your pocket”.
Multiple valued commenters here have, for months, shared a lot of data about how lots of people are genuinely economically fucked. They can’t afford rent or a mortgage near their job (this has doubled since 2020), they’re riding on credit cards for expenses and their balances are growing, and their wage gains didn’t keep pace. They are working and yet falling behind. I don’t know why there is this surprise that people who are genuinely pissed about this did not respond to the Democratic messaging that “the economy is the envy of the world”.
RevRick
@rikyrah: The stupidity starts at the top with Trump, who is an exceedingly stupid man. He is fixated on tariffs as the cure-all for our economy and his malignant narcissism won’t allow him to admit failure. Our national prospects are akin to that of one of his casinos.
And because he surrounds himself with sycophants, no one will tell him his policy is lunacy. The only question is how far Congressional Republicans all him to wreck the economy before they rein him in.
Captain C
@Interesting Name Goes Here:
FTFY
Miss Bianca
@Ben Cisco: I find The Bulwark, while anti-Trump, is also anti-Democrat, in that they lose no opportunity to bash Democrats with a smirk on their collective face. There’s one person who writes for them who is nothing *but* “feckless Democrats” all the the time. I don’t even bother reading her articles – I just axe them without opening them now.
And man, do I seem to get like 2-3 of their posts a fucking *day* in my inbox. I like their movie coverage, their political coverage not so much.
O. Felix Culpa
Given that the premise of the OP has been proven false and the FPer has clearly read that evidence, why hasn’t a retraction been posted at the top? I assume we don’t want to follow in the footsteps of FTFNYT.
ETA: By the latter, I mean unwarranted Dem-slagging (so very helpful in these times, don’t you think?), and an inability or unwillingness to correct the record prominently when…let’s call them errors…creep in.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
OP says she’s working.
Miss Bianca
@bbleh:
This is honestly how I’m starting to feel about my local community radio stations now. I get asked by *both* of them to “tone it down” in my reports that I do for them, because oh, it *offends* some people if I call a spade a bloody fucking shovel. Or link to any news reports that are talking about the shit that’s really going down out there right now.
I swear, comfortably-off white people are really, really, starting to grate my cheese. And not in a good way.
Ben Cisco
@Miss Bianca: Well, I’m cynical enough about most media to not want to be bothered, but thanks for confirming something that had been bugging me for a while about this bunch in particular. They just can’t help themselves.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: Now *there’s* a guy who knows what “fuck off” money is supposed to be about!
dnfree
@Eyeroller:
Gretchen Whitmer HUGGED Trump? What was she thinking? And the notebook thing…..I thought she had potential.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: She had time to respond to corrections when they were made in the very first few comments. So a quick update was possible, especially given the prominent nature of the error. It’s both irresponsible and harmful to let those false statements stand. I hope WG corrects them at the earliest opportunity.
TurnItOffAndOnAgain
@O. Felix Culpa: I’d be in favor of that.
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: So, in other words, these low-quality hires are as clueless as the rest of the Americans who voted for Trump. Got no idea how anything works, too lazy/incurious/stupid to know what they don’t know, and too ditto/ditto/ditto to care.
Miss Bianca
@WTFGhost: I happen to agree with your major premise. Shitcanning Joe Biden was the fucking worst decision Democrats could possibly have made, no matter how well Harris and Walz dealt with that shit sandwich, and no, I won’t shut up about it and “move on”, cause every time we do just that, in the words of the old blues song, we forget that “that’s how you got shot the *last* time!”
O. Felix Culpa
@Miss Bianca: Come sit by me.
Elizabelle
@Miss Bianca:
@O. Felix Culpa:
And me. Sick of it all.
Jay
@Suzanne:
It’s systemic.
The Bank say’s I don’t qualify for a $940 a month mortgage, so instead I have to pay $1800 a month for rent.
Suzanne
@Jay: It’s very bad, and it is unsustainable. Many people are justifiably unhappy about it. We know that unhappy people are easy to manipulate to terrible effect.
Elizabelle
@Suzanne: Well, I think those folks are about to get a huge lesson in not tuning in. We all are. They thought it did not matter if they paid attention. Or the quality of the information they consumed. Surprise!
They are going to be able to afford even less housing, food and education now.
But. It is always the Democrats, who do not know how to communicate.
I am out of sympathy with the disengaged and apathetic. That is not a moral choice.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: I stopped talking about it after the election, but that doesn’t mean I don’t remember what happened.
ETA: There are a lot of people lost quite a bit of respect for based on July.
Elizabelle
@Suzanne: Fascists have counted on it forever. Joe Biden was very clear what was on the ballot.
PatD
@Professor Bigfoot: Investigated? No, I don’t particularly care about Jeffries in this story. He denied it. It seems likely that House Dems are debating the El Salvador strategy here and some good reporting on it would be helpful.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: You and me both.
PatD
@WTFGhost: July should definitely never have happened but that’s because I think Biden should have stuck to one term. He took a gamble and we all lost.
Miss Bianca
@PatD: In other words, you’re one of those people who look at the best POTUS of my lifetime and think, “oh, we should have had *less* of that!”
People always talk about how Joe Biden should have stuck to being a one-term President, “because that’s what he promised!” (No, he didn’t.)
But apparently, that’s what he was “supposed” to do, because that’s what the big money boyz and the pundits wanted him to have done. And if he had? Well, announcing you’re going to be a lame duck from the git-go is…actually, as stupid as deciding that your incumbent POTUS needs to go because Reasons.
Fuck.that.shit.
LAC
@Baud: But moving goal posts is so much more fun! Stenography without context, outrage, then the story may not be factual, and now it is “why doesn’t he go work at a soup kitchen or jump out of a plane into the prison yard to prove the Bulwark wrong,” Because…
PatD
@Miss Bianca: No, you don’t need to play the “in other words” game. Biden did well, for the most part. The problem was that he got old and became a liability at the worst time for us politically. I think Biden was too proud to call it quits after one term and that had terrible consequences. Had he stayed in, he loses 350+ EVs.
Elizabelle
@PatD: People who watched the debate in real time didn’t think that it was such a huge issue. It is the press and Democrats that blew it up. I am ashamed that we have become a nation of imbeciles. Lot of good people too, but we are dangerously full of imbeciles, the apathetic, and the unserious. Can democracy exist in that situation? We are in the process of Finding Out.
Aaron
I think it was clever and good for Jeffries to push against the Bulwark article. While the clever part is certainly arguable (looks like a NYT reporter said they pushed back with her first, and some may disagree with me and think getting another article pushing back is more clever), the good part is getting him on the record as taking the right side ASAP.
I’m also amused by the Bulwark writer being sad by not being taken seriously, but it’s also when they lost the benefit of the doubt for me. (Apologies if someone pointed out the writer being a liar before, and I gave credit where credit was not due.)
The Audacity of Krope
@PatD: Properly calibrating response’s respect level: Fuck you with rusty farm tools, wide end first.
am
So, quite a late reply, and I didn’t read the previous 200 some posts, so I may be covering prior ground but
Seems to me that making empty gestures while allowing Trump to put the focus on people other than himself would be counterproductive. I think Jeffries is thinking very much about these people.
What is the goal? It is to free imprisoned residents of the US, return them to the US, and give them due process to which they are legally required to receive.
Abrego Garcia is a resident of Maryland. Rep. Van Hollen has legitimate claim to be his representative. Van Hollen did extremely important work. He
*proved he was still alive
*confirmed the photograph gang evidence was a fabrication
*appeared to have pressured the El Salvador officials into improving the quality of his illegal incarceration
He was unable to return Abrego Garcia. Why? What is preventing his return? The president.
So anything that does not further the cause of weakening the president is not furthering the cause of releasing the illegally detained prisoners in El Salvador.
Other Democrats visiting would not improve Abrego Garcia’s circumstances, and it would not weaken the president’s standing with his base and independents. Trump has – for years now – distracted his base from his own incompetence pointing to Democratic resistance. It gets them angry at Democrats instead of him. They are dumb, it works regularly.
Trump is *shitting the bed*. He is incredibly unpopular currently and his power is derived mainly from his perceived popularity. He knows this and he is a narcissist and it’s leading to narcissistic collapse, which will finally put and end to this fucking personality cult among an electoral plurality. Jeffries, Schumer, and Democratic party leadership has been uncharacteristically disciplined, finally, in consistently putting the focus on the president and his failures.
Trump is a con man and they are giving him nothing at all to redirect outrage to with a sleight of hand. No “Antifa riots”, no performative visits to El Salvador by some of the more attention seeking elected Democrats, nothing. I believe this will work and just requires patience and discipline.
PatD
@The Audacity of Krope: Ok, you first if that’s how you respond to someone’s fairly measured opinion.
PatD
@Elizabelle: There’s one person responsible for the debate fallout and that’s Joe Biden. I don’t know if he didn’t take it seriously, was sick, didn’t sleep well etc but he dropped the ball and it snowballed from there as the press smelled blood in the water. The media played a big role but he made it happen. Either way, it’s pretty obvious he was headed to a big loss.