I wrote about the pluses, minuses, and theoretical best practices for having a conversation with a liar on TV. defector.com/talking-to-t…
— David_j_roth (@davidjroth.bsky.social) May 3, 2025 at 12:21 PM
Or: TV ‘President’ Yaps at Talking Heads, per Dave Roth at Defector: [gift link]
It is only sort of true to say that you know what you’re going to get when Donald Trump sits for a television interview. It is true in the sense that, after a decade spent alternately threatening and occupying the White House, everyone knows how he is going to act. There is some more uncertainty when it comes to what Trump is actually going to do, but even these variables aren’t notably variable. He is going to act like Donald Trump, or some version of Donald Trump. This is something that can be prepared for, to some extent.
If he is being interviewed by someone from one of the television channels he likes, Trump will be drawling and digressive in his familiar toastmaster mode, the tone he puts on when he is Making Some Remarks before an audience that he senses is eager to applaud him. “A little secret,” he told Fox News’ Laura Ingraham while showing her around his increasingly cluttered and gilded Oval Office, “throughout the years, people have tried to come up with a gold paint that would look like gold. And they’ve never been able to do it.” No, Ingraham agreed, in a tone of hushed awe, while the Fox camera focused on a dorky little golden cherub above a door. “That’s why it’s gold.” He sounds like he’s talking in his sleep, murmuring through a dream in which he is doing exactly this sort of thing. That’s one version.
The other version emerges in situations where Trump knows he might get asked a question he doesn’t want to answer. These interviews are shot and staged differently, and not quite in the ways that presidential interviews generally have been. He will be in a room that is too big or stuffed with Trumpy doodads and signifiers—glossy wood and gold, picture frames and trophies and bad art, flagpoles clumped uncannily together like the seven fingers on a AI-generated image’s hand. You will, for some reason, always be able to see Trump’s entire body in a chair, squatting and heaving and canted in an uncanny way that might remind you of Blanka from Street Fighter wearing a suit. In close shots, you will for some reason always be able to see Trump’s bottom teeth. The diction is different, brittle with distress and umbrage; he is immediately flustered and aggrieved, always, as if surprised—or not surprised, but offended and a little disappointed—that this nasty man or woman has not asked, not even once, whether that is real gold on those cherubs or just gold paint.
Trump’s frustration in settings like those clearly has something to do with his supreme sensitivity to lèse-majesté, but it seems grounded in a more foundational frustration, which is that interviews like this are not designed to do the things that he wants interviews to do. For someone so steeped in and warped by television, Trump has an oddly stilted and inert sense of what it should be like. He understands that good TV is when he shouts at an underling and they go away or when he comes up with a really good idea that saves everything; he was casting himself in the lead of stories like this long before he got into politics. But what Trump actually prefers is something far more dramatically slack than that, a sort of endless rolling Entertainment Tonight segment in which some correspondent visits him on the set of his latest blockbuster, or just footage of him pointing and golfing with leering Robin Leach voiceover ladled over it. This is not what television is, but it is what Trump has always dreamed it would be: all those other stories about other people replaced by something much more luxurious and high-quality, for instance him sitting at a big table while everyone laughs at his jokes and thanks him, or him walking a news host around some gaudy space and pointing out the various fixtures, or him roping one perfect drive after another down the dead center of the fairway as a grateful nation puts its differences aside to shout “get in the hole” with one voice.
When Trump got upset with ABC News anchor Terry Moran during their interview earlier this week, it transparently had less to do with any of Moran’s qualified and exceedingly polite attempts at correcting whatever weird lie the president had just told than with a breach in what Trump understood as the principle of the thing. “Terry,” Trump said at one point, “you can’t do that—hey, I’m giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you’re doing the interview. And I picked you because, frankly I never heard of you, but that’s okay. But I picked you, Terry, [and] you’re not being very nice.” At some level, Trump was mad that Moran had briefly deigned to correct the lie that Trump was telling about Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a man who Trump’s oaf cadres had renditioned to a torture gulag in El Salvador—in this case, about a hilariously specious interpretation of some of Garcia’s tattoos, which Trump had misunderstood in an idiotic and apparently permanent way. But the “you can’t do that” bit is the thing, the sound of a wrestler upset by his opponent’s unwillingness or inability to play his scripted part, and put the champ over…
It is one of the defining Trump things that any belief that makes it into his mind will bump around in there forever; his understanding of the world is the sum of those things, thousands of permanent and perpetual irritants cut free from any context or facticity, smashing into each other and echoing forever inside of his luxuriously appointed skull. They drop bowling balls on the cars; there is no such thing as gold paint; they looked at his hand and the proof was right there. None of this, of course, is new. None of the beliefs are new, really, and nothing that Trump will do between this moment and his last one on earth will be new, or surprising in the least. It’s just a matter of which echoes are ringing most loudly at that moment…
Trump understands the rhythm of television in the way that only someone profoundly warped and wounded by it can; where any other finer and more human thing might have been within him there are now just gallons of flat, room-temperature Access Hollywood exclusives sloshing about, a whole dead ocean inside. The lies that he tells are boring because there is just nothing to them; they’re meaningless, unattached to anything, something that They Did or They Saw that he heard somewhere. It’s not even bullshit; it’s just gossip.
But Trump also knows where those sounds fit within the broader rhythm of a television interview, and if he understands what noises to make and when much more readily than he grasps what any of those sounds might signify or “mean,” the interplay of those noises will still more or less assume the conventional shape. This does Trump a very big favor—everything looks and sounds much more fucked up and stupid than you’d expect, but you can still see the outline of a Presidential Interview in there, just with any residual social value replaced entirely by lead and chalk.
That it will make anyone watching it at the very least more confused and in some meaningful ways more stupid—if it will, through letting Trump fill all those familiar spaces with a heady, sewage-forward stew of carcinogenic gossip and nonsense, lead those viewers into that impenetrable and subjective Trumpian incoherence—seems much less important to the media organizations producing it than that it all continue to look how it’s supposed to look, and unfold more or less in the ways that it has always unfolded. There are things that a sufficiently dedicated and prepared journalist could do to mitigate this. Stop the interview to not just contest but disprove an obvious lie, for the sake of the viewer if not for the liar hunched in the opposite chair. Contextualize all that conjecture and insinuation. Ask the question and just keep on asking it until it is actually answered, as Hamilton Nolan once suggested. If he walks away, which he might, then he walks away. The job is not to simply fill the container, but to fill it in a useful way…
The Stuff of Mad Kings
Gin & Tonic
If there were anyone in the media who had the slightest chance of doing that, they would not land an interview with Trump.
NotMax
When do tariffs on Broadway shows transplanted from the London stage kick in?
//
RaflW
Bravo, mister Roth. This has all been going on so long that one can safely conclude that having “it all continue to look how it’s supposed to look, and unfold more or less in the ways that it has always unfolded” is paramount to them.
They’re all playing the roles Tom Tomorrow has so aptly mocked for decades now.
Even the ‘good ones’ — I mean reporters that people not in the tank think of as news people, not entertainment personalities or the fact-torturers at Fox or OAN — are just bit players in a pantomime that is about The Presidency, as played by this or that Democrat (booo!) or Republican (yaaay).
It’s a fucking telenovela to them all, mostly because they can go home at night with no fear for themselves or their loved ones. Utterly insulated from the consequences of their cossetedness.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t think anyone tries anymore. I watched Chris Matthews yuck it up with this president in the way back. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, Mr. Matthew’s pushed (and pushed) on whether women who have abortions should be punished. Mr. Trump finally answered him that yes, they should. Chris Matthews did what this article suggests and it worked.
Then many pundits rushed to say he did not really mean that. But that is another story for a different discussion.
I wish that the journalists we still have would report what this president does, instead of giving him their airtime to lie. His actions matter. He has set fire to this country while firing all of the firefighters. What lies he wants to tell about that self-destruction are meaningless.
Trollhattan
I, for one, welcome cute beaver news. For the first time in 400 years, beavers roam the UK backcountry, Wales to be specific.
There be video.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c705le51rpzo
HopefullyNotcassandra
@NotMax: I had not thought of that
What happens to the multitude of movies that get CGI in New Zealand while being filmed in multiple global locations and then are edited here but voice overs happen everywhere? Would that movie get hit with a tariff for every border crossing?
This is super silly unserious person stuff from a president (stupidly or purposefully) seeking to destroy the United States of America.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@RaflW: if our journalists truly believe they are safe, they are not paying attention. Life in the lands loved by Trump is terrible for the free press.
That is, of course, assuming the dictators they attempt to report on let them keep their lives.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Trollhattan: that is wonderful. Thank you for that!
Jay
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
Well the latest Mission Impossible, filmed in 4 locations, costing the Studio $400 million, would in the easiest interpretation of tariffs FFS, would cost the Studio $800 million.
And of course, most US Studio productions make their bank in export markets. The ratio between purely foreign film imports and US Studio exports in dollars is somewhere around 1:12.
So TariffMan just killed Hollywood dead.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
Not only that, but it’s also explicitly illegal to imposs tariffs on films according to the law the administration is citing for their authority. They’re specifically exempt
Michael Bersin
Mark Alford (r) just dropped a franked mailing in Missouri’s 4th Congressional District – playing to the right wingnut cult of the victim in the aftermath of his late February coffee house town hall in Belton, Missouri:
Franking, but frankly, not so frank, Mark (r).
“Instead of cowering from the liberal mob, we will put an end to wasteful spending and refocus on real priorities – ensuring a strong national defense, caring for our veterans, and supporting Missouri’s farmers and small business owners.”
One of André Leon Talley's Fifty Pieces of Monogrammed Louis Vuitton Luggage
It seems that in interviews his is increasingly doing that thing where he kind of grinds his lower jaw back and forth, like I’ve seen other people (not me!!!) do when they’re on E.
I wonder if, say, adderall has the same effect in large doses?
RaflW
@HopefullyNotcassandra: I think it’s a combo of hubris and blinkeredness. Their faith in the crumbled and lost institutions is just weird. (And this is all supposition on my part. Maybe I’m guilty of trying to make meaning from people who appear to be making bad choices?)
Bupalos
So there’s a new installment of this series today, Carney in the Oval in basically the same setting as Zelenskyy. In fact, at one point (after the obsequious humiliation was mostly over) Trump referenced the Zelenskyy-punking…trying to see what that might provoke. Carney almost imperceptibly cringed but remained pregnantly submissive.
Look to it Mark, or this is the first day of the rest of your life…. which is just slow motion political collapse. Because as Trump kept saying “forever is a long time. I don’t like to say never.”
Won an election on being the least Trumpy candidate, then went to sit in the Zelenskyy Chair. How about those 24 carat embellishments there in the new Oval Office, eh? Look very real, eh? Don’t say anything eh?
ColoradoGuy
This goes all the way back to Reagan getting elected Governor of California in the early Sixties. Zero experience, but best pals with his multi-millionaire friends. The smiling, TV-friendly face of the John Birch Society, but with the media industry on his side, because he’s One Of Them, and you don’t piss inside the tent. You just don’t.
Whether it’s sports broadcasting, reality TV, Ancient Aliens on the “History” channel, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or what passes for “news” in this country … it’s all just more soup, or “content”. The media look after their own.
karen gail
Trump has turned the White House into a disgrace; maybe it is time for something new?
Bupalos
@Jay:
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
One of the most interesting things about Trump is that he very openly references the social weaknesses that allow him to proceed. In this interview (from memory) he makes overt references to the interviewer’s ambitions…. that this is a really important moment for him, one that Trump has given him. This is true, and the kind of truth that creates Trump’s cult. Because “he’s cutting through the bullshit.” The plain human reality is that the individual in front of him IS beholden to him, and proportionally owes much more to Trump than he does to the institutions he’s purporting to defend.
I think in 10 years people will see this as much more visceral than we do now. That Trump is essentially the more emotionally honest person in the frame. There are 500 media whores lined up behind this one. Trump has them by the balls, and is open about describing the reality of this situation.
The questions are incredibly obsequious. After the reminder, even moreso.
Jay
@Bupalos:
Carney’s popularity just went up 7% according to a CBC poll.
Canadian’s don’t have the rotted MAGgot infested brains that the US has. 16 years of DJTdiot has rotted every US brain. Yours in particular.
Remember when DJTdiot started making mouth noises about Tariffs FFS/Fentanyl? We gave him the same deal we had negotiated with the Biden Administration in 2024, like it was a shiny new object and he ran away, clutching it to his chest like it was his “Precious”, (until of course, he got bored).
There is a global trade alliance against China, it’s called the CPATPP,………. already exists,
And the US is not part of it and it looks like it never will be.
karen gail
India has launch air strikes against Pakistan.
India launches military operation against Pakistan in major escalation
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Jay: …while Gov. Hollywood cheered him on 😞
Jay
@karen gail:
Not good.
Jay
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Yup. so much for his political career. I guess he’s auditioning for a Faux News Anchor spot.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Just for clarity, here’s a tweet from Gov Newsom:
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Jay: It’s illegal, for one thing. Newsom just cheers it on.
Gov Whitmer did the same thing with the auto industry and tariffs. WTF?!!!
Suzanne
This afternoon, amongst a stack of work tasks, I have been enjoying the political/strategy insight of Cassie Pritchard, aka the Cocaine Banana lady. If you still have Xhitter, she’s a great follow. Incredibly funny and always engaging to read.
Jay
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
As I said, 16 years of DJTdiot living rent free in American brains has caused major brain rot.
Suzanne
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Whitmer and Newsom have both slid significantly in my estimation in the last year or so.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
….Why the hell is he tying himself to Trump whose popularity, never that high to begin with, is cratering in real time? What the fuck is this? Surely he’s gotten a lot of blowback for this shit, why isn’t he changing course?
JML
The only explanation that makes any sense to me as to why so many people still back whatever the Current Occupant says and does, and simply back him regardless of anything is that the whole MAGA movement is a cult and the Current Occupant is the leader. They can’t break free from it, because that would mean admitting that things they have done and said in service to the Current Occupant were wrong and would require such a fundamental upheaval to their worldview that they simply can’t comprehend it.
It’s the only way the constant excusing of the spew of nonsense that keeps coming out works. It’s the only thing that explains how people twist themselves into knots trying to explain away what is actually being said and done.
It’s a cult. And I don’t know if the fever will break until after the leader dies.
ColoradoGuy
There’s that awkward interval between advancing dementia and dying. How many years will that be?
comrade scotts agenda of rage
It’s very nice that Governor Goodhair II is effectively hamstringing himself for 2028. He’s essentially a dream candidate for the Klein/MattY/Smith/neolibs clowns (and it’s hysterical to see their fans amongst self-professed progressives now try and distance themselves from him) and it was gonna be a really hard nose-holding exercise if he were the nominee.
gratuitous
To the political reporters: You see it right in front of you. There’s no subterfuge, no nth-level game going on here. The felon is losing his marbles. You can say that. Right out loud. You don’t have to couch in soft terms that make it seem like a momentary Mitch McConnell glitch-out. The felon is near the end of his tether to reality. Just say it.
bbleh
Will give 20 to 1 that these “movie tariffs” will go away somewhere between splashy announcement and actual implementation, not just because at least some interpretations are that it’s flatly illegal, but also because MAGA land hates them because they might benefit Evil Hollywood LGBT Globalist Communists.
I’m also thinking he may have to move on from “tariff” thing soon and find some other theme to entertain the rubes. Still a bit early for a war — he’s gonna need that when the economy really starts to sink later this year. And it appears he may have overplayed the anti-University-Ee-leetist thing a little. So what might it be? Bashing “welfare” maybe? Budget coming due — blah blah deficits blah blah moochers blah. Gonna bite the people who voted for him hardest, but he doesn’t care, and it’ll take a while for them to realize it anyway. What else is in the playbook?
The Audacity of Krope
Love to see it…
karen gail
@JML: The “sad” part about cults, for many once the leader dies a number of his minions try to keep things going and end up splintering the cult. But those who join cults often find another cult that will appeal to them; mother joined one in early 60’s so many of my teen friends were part of that cult. Youngest brothers were raised in it from early childhood; they went from a religious cult to nothing but are now part of maga crowd. It is a mindset that when formed in early childhood is almost impossible to break, this is a big reason why Trump appeals to so many evangelical christians. Trump’s cult is just another authoritarian cult which isn’t much different from what they hear from preachers on Sundays.
Suzanne
@bbleh: Didn’t he save, like 250 million people from a fentanyl overdose?! How could he outdo that?!
Ohio Mom
@Suzanne: I feel the same. And yet, should either of them end up the next Democratic candidate for president, you and I would be voting for them. Sigh.
Bupalos
@Jay:Carney’s popularity just went up 7% according to a CBC poll.
This happened less than 12 hours ago. Talk to me about what poll this is?
Suzanne
@Ohio Mom: Fuck, I’ve voted for Sinema. Multiple times. Needed a Silkwood shower every time. Voting for Whitmer or Newsom wouldn’t be as bad as that.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Ohio Mom:
The way Newsom, at least, is acting is beyond the pale. It shows really bad political instincts and a lack of inner beliefs/principles. Who’s to say he won’t throw other parts of the coalition under the bus if he thinks it will help him politically?
That’s why he has to be opposed at every turn imo. He needs to be made an example of to other Dem pols
Baud
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Weird. He was so strong last year.
The Audacity of Krope
I can’t find documentary proof that it was Trump, but in February I got a memo from the FDA saying that Narcan was added to the REMS program, effectively invalidating pharmacies’ standing orders allowing them to dispense it proactively.
This will make it harder to access life saving medication and will likely cause more overdose deaths.
TONYG
@HopefullyNotcassandra: The stupidity of the tariffs on movies is just an extreme example of the stupidity of this moron. There are very few things that are “made in” any one particular country. Things are manufactured using raw materials and components from all over the world; and this has been the case for decades. Trump’s view of the world has been ossified for the past sixty or seventy years. He learns nothing because he is too stupid to learn anything.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Suzanne:
Let’s just hope that if they do run in 2028 Dem primary voters don’t forget this dumb sucking up crap they’re doing and they get bounced. The Dem base wants fighters, not collaborators
Doug R
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
For example ALL the Despicable Me/Minions movies have French animators* and ALL the voice talent generally phones it in from home in America.
*I’m betting there’s a sweatshop in there somewhere as well.
Bupalos
@Jay: That’s all he said. I watched the whole thing and what was weird was you had 2 national leaders on camera and only one talked ever, and the other always asked permission before he said anything.
And the lines you’re talking about are the only potentially oppositional lines he said. In like an hour. Watch it. He figets and faintly gestures and thinks about whether to say anything a whole lot. The only thing he ever says is “Never” and “for sale” against a constant barrage of “well who knows, never is a long time, you’d be better off, you’re completely dependent, you don’t matter….” 20 minutes of that compared to 48 seconds of “never.” Countered by equal time to that of “never say never” that makes him flinch some more and swallow his tongue.
The “for sale” term is dumb anyway. Who responds to “we’ll add you to our landmass” with “we’re not for sale??”
The proper response is “try it Donald, you won’t just get a superficial knick in your earlobe you can sell to the media to prove you’re not a gigantic pussy.”
This is “eating the dogs, eating the cats….” again.
People want to believe we won. Nope. Just wait.
Jay
@Bupalos:
‘Merkin* opining on Canada doesn’t know what CBC is,
Meanwhile, Trump Takes Movies.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin#:~:text=A%20merkin%20is%20a%20pubic,to%20cover%20her%20pubic%20area.
TONYG
@The Audacity of Krope: For Trump, RFK Junior and the rest of them, deaths of the untermenschen are a feature, not a bug.
Suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope: That’s terrible.
However, I was specifically referring to this:
The Audacity of Krope
@Bupalos: Some may refer to that relative quiet as “not dignifying idiocy with a response.” Some of us look fondly on such behavior.
The Audacity of Krope
@Suzanne: Numeracy is an underrated trait.
Nukular Biskits
Good evenin’, y’all.
Jay
@Bupalos:
Shows your ignorance. Canadians are polite, quiet. Part of being polite is to not interrupt.
MAGgot has so rotted your brain that you think screaming, insulting and shouting is “normal”.
Sorry that Carney did not give you the MAGgot WWE show you wanted,
Bupalos
@Jay: I really don’t understand.
Are you suggesting the CBC conducted a meaningful poll over the course of the last few hours, and that ‘Merkans (me) won’t accept it as a valid reflection of some deeper reality than… I mean… how would such a poll have even happened?
Jay
@Bupalos:
Yup, boy are you dumb.
The Audacity of Krope
Some degree of valuing toxic behavior as well.
Darkrose
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: The Podcaster-in-Chief needs to go. He’s clearly no longer interested in governing the state.
Bupalos
@Jay: Dude I’m an MA graduate of the the U of T among my other Canadian bona fides and slightly confused by all of this.
Promise you (ask me how I know) there are Canadians freaking out about this performance.
Bupalos
@Jay: I’m sure.
Just to confirm, you’re saying you’re referencing some poll about what happened a few hours ago. Can you cite here?
HopefullyNotcassandra
@bbleh: did you see the latest letter from Linda McMahon to Harvard?
I cannot find a non dead bird link. So, you can check out a summary and appropriate criticism here
https://www.alternet.org/mcmahon-letter/
Pure, undistilled stupid. Our Secretary of Education neither knows grammar, nor spelling either.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: and yet, California’s governor is infinitely superior to anyone the GOP has on offer.
The Audacity of Krope
@Bupalos: Still treating toxic bullshit as valuable and worthwhile. People agreeing you doesn’t make it less so, especially when the people you offer as examples are your own associates.
The Audacity of Krope
@HopefullyNotcassandra: Not gonna lie, I’d have real trouble deciding in a Charlie Baker/Gavin Newsom contest.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Your takes on things seem to be becoming almost willfully idiosyncratic.
Bupalos
I’m sorry WHAT?
No one “agreeing me” that I can tell. Who are my associates? Are you sure this is the right number?
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Jay: I don’t think so
one, right now Hollywood is trying to get tax incentives for filming in California
two, and likely much more important, there isn’t any mechanism to tariff a movie. Right now, studios have a difficult time protecting their copyrights. When, where and who would assess and accept these tariffs? Are republicans going to invent an entirely new government agency just for this?
of course they are not. The stock market is not employing bright bulbs, I fear.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: Can people just please reference some claim they think I’m making if they don’t want to make their own?
Right now we’re on “The CBC conducted a meaningful poll that says Mark Carney is now 7% more popular after sitting next to Trump insulting him for an hour.”
Do the work. Or spout whatever is already in your head about nothing, about names on a stupid internet chat nothing.
Darkrose
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Gavin Newsom has one principle: that Gavin Newsom should have power. If he thinks performing same-sex marriages will get him votes, he’ll do that. Now that he perceives that there’s a shift in the political winds, he’ll change in a hot minute if it might gain him votes. He’s term-limited out of the CA governorship, so he’s angling for the big job, and hoping that the Democrats will go back to any white man.
Bupalos
@Jay: Agreed. Now explain your 7% more popular thing and how you think that Carney just became 7% more popular here.
The Audacity of Krope
Let’s reevaluate your original comment, shall we?
You discuss your bona fides as a Canadian and imply people you are talking to (associating with, your associates) share your outlook.
Or does English work differently in Canada?
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: What was your take on the Carney presser?
The Audacity of Krope
Unfortunately, that seems like a fairly solid bet.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: I haven’t seen it. I therefore have no view on it.
bbleh
@HopefullyNotcassandra: as observed somewhere else, that letter has the Orange Guy’s thumbprints all over it. The weird capitalization, the over-the-top categorical allegations — it reads like one of his social media posts.
But from what I’ve seen reported, knuckling the universities isn’t working out quite as hoped, and Ima guess he’ll move on soon and leave the cleanup to someone he can blame for the eventual messy failure. (Sorry, Linda …)
Another Scott
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Devil’s Advocate (I don’t know much about Newsom and don’t have a strong opinion about him):
His political base is California. When normies think of California, they think of granola-eating, EV driving, etc., lefties.
The conventional wisdom is that if someone like that wants to win enough electoral votes, then they have to appeal to enough of the “heartland / flyover” voters to flip those states – running up the score in Massachusetts isn’t going to help very much… By “tacking to the center” and by showing they’re “not a prisoner of the left”.
Even inside California, it seems that Balloon-Juice Book Zoomer Adam Schiff made some of that calculation when he ran for (and won) a seat in the Senate.
So, it might be a sign that Newsom is trying to seem more “pragmatic” to the people in the mushy middle while working to build a base for a presidential run in 2028. And if it means that he defeats the monsters and has huge coat-tails to get sensible legislation done, and even make incremental progress on things that Biden-Harris didn’t get done, then Yay Team!!
“just win baby!” – N. Pelosi.
But we’ll see what happens.
FWIW.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Bupalos
@The Audacity of Krope: I did my man. Anti-Trumpers at the U of T (this is essentially the Bill Kristol wing) are feeling essentially betrayed by Carney’s submissive performance.
But I’m not channeling Canadians, I’m giving my response. And I’m going to guess that ONCE AGAIN no one here that’s insisting on arguing has even watched the thing they’re pretending to argue about.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: IOW you are taking them up on their request for someone to ask them how they know that Canadians are freaking out.
Interesting Name Goes Here
…OK, last week was Hate Hakeem Jeffries Week. This week is Hate Mark Carney Week.
Can someone tell me what the next few weeks are going to be? I never got my calendar in the mail.
Baud
@Interesting Name Goes Here:
Probably me.
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: Having these meta opinions about the opinions expressed by people who have opinions about things they saw, that you haven’t bothered with… do you think that’s… what… “idiosyncratic?”
Or maybe like what… “terminally online”
Baud
@Jay:
You broke the blog.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: You are correct — Dems winning is the only goal we should have in mind right now.
This shit is just disappointing sometimes and it’s nice to have a place here at BJ where we can let off steam about it.
The Audacity of Krope
@Bupalos: Poor reasoning has a way of standing out even before checking the source material.
Another example, you say it’s too soon for polls to reflect what occurred in the interview. I agree with this. So then, what evidence do you have that Canadians are responding in the way you describe, other than conversations with a couple right-wingers of your association
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Terminally? But I feel fine.
PaulB
LOL…. Oh, the irony…. Dear heart, you were the one who made the ridiculous claims about “pregnantly submissive,” about a “slow motion political collapse,” etc. Since you never “do the work,” it’s rather foolish of you to insist that everyone else do so.
I see no point in continuing this discussion, since you’re simply not worth the time. To the pie filter you go.
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
Rewarding it, the N word at a toddler “person” is at $700,000 on Give,Send,Go.
different-church-lady
SOMEBODY JUST KICK HIM IN THE FUCKIN’ NUTS!!!
The Audacity of Krope
I have a few friends that could make a lot of money real quick at that. Would probably lack the transgressive thrill this Give, Send, Go is looking for.
Jay
@Bupalos:
Ah, the “Canadian Girlfriend” excuse.
Bye.
The Audacity of Krope
@Jay: Setting aside the temporary assertion both before and after he asserted otherwise that no one agreed with him.
different-church-lady
@Jay:
Correct. That’s why there’s eminent domain.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos:
Canadians everywhere thank you.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Do the work? You have been around here long enough that you should know that my comments here are 1/3 serious opinion, 1/3 snark, 1/3 pure nonsense, and 1/3 some combination of the above. I am not here to work.
Jay
@Baud:
Works fine for me,
maybe contact a Front Pager, or Cole, in all caps, with emoji’s, lots of emoji’s..
Bupalos
@The Audacity of Krope: If we’re going to “rationality” then the several Canadians I have on my text qualify as “there are canadians freaking out” yeah?
I wasn’t making a claim about percentages.
you were.
We’re still just assuming that this claim of yours that was meant to refute my take (that Carney just did an egregious showing of the belly that will precede a slide in support) referenced something, anything at all… did it? Can it be linked
The most irritating thing that happens for me here is that I’m often interested in the things people say, and they won’t follow them up if they smell that they can win or lose a dumb online joust that literally no one cares about is in question.
WHAT
POLL
DID
YOU
SEE?
different-church-lady
@Bupalos:
The part where you said that sour cream was a totally adequate substitute for crème fraîche made me squint a bit.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
I am not here to
workmath.(I like it)
different-church-lady
@Baud: The blog knows what it did.
Baud
@Jay:
Hopefully one will see me comment.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: I must have been drunk.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
It’s called “war”. We have our Plan Red.
You won’t like it when Canadians go to war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktSPMzKqVPo
different-church-lady
@Bupalos: Hey, win for you.
The Audacity of Krope
I did no such thing. I merely stated people can look at a domination display by an asshole over a more restrained individual and not let their lizard brain trick them into siding with the dominance poseur.
Some here might even be able to tell you that I don’t like arguments made from polling.
different-church-lady
@Jay: Why not surrender, eh?
stinger
@HopefullyNotcassandra: Thanks for the Alternet link. McMahon: “living within the walls of prosperity”. What? Where? Can I move in?McMahon must really resent Harvard’s $53 billion dollar endowment, as she mentions it three times, although on the second reference she labels it “so-called” and “massively overstated”. The politics of resentment!
different-church-lady
I haven’t even looked at the whole thread and the fighting is making me so happy!
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay: Eh, my mother’s Québécois ancestors and my dad’s New England ancestors spent chunks of the 17th and 18th Centuries trying to kill one another or encouraging the indigenous population to do it for them. And yet they have been married for more than 61 years.
Jay
@different-church-lady:
If you watch the short video, you will realize we invented war crimes. Plan Red is pretty simple. We will fight the 14th Canadian/US War in major US Northern Cities and transit nodes until our allies arrive.
My Regiment is at full strength, 4 Companies. First time since WWII. Normally it’s 1Company. We are currently training up 4 more Companies. We will be at WWII strength in September. All Canadian units are doing it, and it’s not because of what is happening in Europe.
different-church-lady
@Jay: If you bring some of those maple leaf cookies we’ll welcome you as liberators.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: No Trumpian rule? Sign me up to be a Canadian today.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: They put mayo on hamburgers. Ew.
Gloria DryGarden
How can we counter this? If your pov is accurate ( didn’t watch the interview yet), how can we make people see it more clearly, so they know to counter it?
btw, re your phrase “pregnantly submissive” : maybe you could/ should write a poem. Or some prose. Using this unusual turn of phrase.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: I suspect that while many of them may prefer that within the culture, they retain the freedom to choose their own condiments.
A brand of freedom Americans can get behind.
tomtofa
As for Newsom, his ex-wife and Don Jr’.s ex fiancee Kimberley Guilfoyle has been more involved with Newsom again. For instance, she facilitated Charlie Kirk’s and Steve Bannon’s appearaences on Newsom’s podcast.
He’l probably be full MAGA by the time ’28 rolls around.
Bupalos
@The Audacity of Krope: Yeah. confused you with the original objector.
No one respects anyone here because there aren’t real people in this space. When we come to this space we willingly stop being real people. It’s why we come here. This isn’t a real place. It’s a space where we go into our own heads looking for an echo, and mostly get it, since we knew where to come for similarity, but are then low-key infuriated when it doesn’t come back quite exactly the way we expect. It’s a lonely place for lonely people. Constantly being improved by the algorithm. It’s good for validation and rage. I’ll try to be done with it.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: I don’t know. I have been told that some Canadians are “pregnantly submissive.” Also, doesn’t that seem both BSDM and gender bendery?
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: I respect quite a few people here. And when did Cole start using an algorithm?
cain
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
You think they care about that? They like being influencers, not journalists.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Bupalos: On the contrary, you often offer a point of view that is new to me and gives me food for thought. That is always appreciated.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: the comments below that YouTube are precious!
If Canada has to have war activities against USA, some of us will see you as liberators. I am glad you are ready. It’s hard to know what USA man has up his sleeve, and what his puppet masters are getting up to. Desperate times, desperate measures…
The thing is, to stop this autocracy thing, it goes many layers deep into the creators of 2025 project, and the peter thiel, Curtis yarvin ideas that elites should rule everyone else, for the benefit of the elites. If we have to impeachment by impeachment, and one court case at a time, it going to take a long time.
HopefullyNotcassandra
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): that makes it twice as not going to happen.
The Audacity of Krope
Telling on yourself.
A more logical proposition might suggest that “likely no one respects everyone here.”
That statement bears scrutiny a little better.
It seems you are sad, though. I’m sorry to hear.
I promise you good, constructive conversation can be found here. If you already experience that sometimes, perhaps hold those conversations in your esteem instead of losing them in the broader mass of internet bullshit.
If no such conversations exist, you may have some things to consider about your own approach?
Take it from someone who has been here a long time and has had his share of edification and acrimony and contributing on both ends of that dynamic.
cain
@karen gail:
Indian population seem to be unhappy that this is happening. But I totally can understand that something like what was done, the dehumanizing cruelty (just like Hamas) requires a response – it was likely designed to provoke this response. I don’t know.
Hopefully, India knows what they are doing. I don’t know if Pakistan was actually behind the attack or that one of their catspaws did it.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: Foremost, consent is everything. I tend to fetishize domination by physical strength moreso than bourgeois power dynamics, but if you’re into that sort of thing…
@Omnes Omnibus: Of course I didn’t mean you, personally.
I can’t believe in all my above I forgot this 🤦
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
We will hold the mayo if you ask, nicely.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: It’s still light out here, but I think I’ll give it all a miss.
different-church-lady
@Bupalos: I respect quite a few “people” here.
And others… not so much.
different-church-lady
@The Audacity of Krope:
Freddie DeB found that out the hard way.
RevRick
@Another Scott: I’m with you on Newsom. What politicians think they have to do to win, is above my pay grade. I’m willing to give them a whole lot of leeway.
Jesus counseled his disciples to be as innocent as doves but as wise as serpents. By this he meant that we need to have a clear-eyed understanding of the forces we are up against. We can’t wish the just world we long for into existence, because there will always be tremendous resistance to changing the world for the better. But that’s not a counsel to throw up one’s hands. So, when the early church had the wherewithal, they founded hospitals, because hospitality is a core value. But that isn’t woo-woo.
In the context of our political system, the first and primary job of a politician is to get elected. Only by winning elections do they get the power to enact an agenda.
Trump, like most fascists, gained power by providing a spectacle. It wasn’t the program he was promoting that got him elected, because basically he was playing three-card monte with it. Heck, he was able to convince a significant portion of the population that his bloated body was a symbol of strength. And enough people were hooked in by the spectacle that he can now engage in his wholesale wrecking.
The lesson is that those who are too pure for the sharp elbows of politics end up being ineffective. The first order of business is to get elected.
The Audacity of Krope
@different-church-lady: Heh, Freddie the Boor (Bore!)
The Audacity of Krope
So we just vote for our side no matter what they say and hope they do the right thing?
Newsom is a follower not a leader. That’s what I see in his recent behavior.
The Thin Black Duke
I saw the interview.
Carney looked like he knew he was in the room with a crazy person, but knew he had to pretend Trump was normal because he’s an adult. Just like the rest of the world knows that Trump is crazy.
It’s the stupid Americans who delude themselves into thinking otherwise.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: this is the timeframe where we should be looking very carefully at who is in line to be our standard bearer. Right now, Gavin is not covering himself in glory. Neither is Big Gretchen.
Gloria DryGarden
@The Audacity of Krope: bourgeois power dynamics can be really scary, cutthroat. I think it’s what we’re living with, now more than ever.
from the outside, without millions of dollars, and unwilling to enact outrage and break laws, we find ourselves waving signs in groups on major intersections and capitol steps. And it seems like a vast power differential.
Re Mark Carney not getting much of a word in. He’s not a master bullshitter blatherer, unlike the other guy.
Perhaps he’s keeping his cards to himself, giving USA-man lots of rope. Canadian gentleman and all that ( see Jay’s YouTube reference). Meaning, stay tuned.
we women know about staying silent in the face of things, until the right moment. Talking back doesn’t help. Being ready, and taking necessary action, does, or might. Most of us don’t get into dominance displays. Though I guess the maga folks like this iron man idea..
Gloria DryGarden
@The Thin Black Duke: I like your take on that. Thank you.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not as familiar with Whitmer’s movings, anything particular you think I should look at?
Really, though, we should be thinking about 2026. Congress needs to reassert the power it has ceded to the Presidency. There can start with a Presidential scale push for a coequal branch of the government. We all need to think about how we can help. Or, if we’ve thought about it, act. ::shifts around guiltily::
Gloria DryGarden
@HopefullyNotcassandra:
The lies he tells, keep us from seeing the fire, or preparing to defend ourselves. It’s his way of sneaking truckloads of heinous actions right past our radar. Without knowing the actions, people get fooled… and even drink the koolaid.
Jay
@The Thin Black Duke:
@Gloria DryGarden:
Keep in mind. Mark Carney is not a “politician”, he’s a Technocrat.
He guided the Canadian Economy through the 2008 collapse, with very little damage. He stabilized Britain during and after Brexit.
We didn’t elect him to give speeches, we elected him to fix stuff.
Do you really care if your plumber is a great orator, a carnival barker, and “entertainer”, hitting all your notes, or do you just want him to unclog the drain
He Who Should Not Be Named, was looking for a “show”, MAGgot brain rot, endemic to the US.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: The appearances with Trump. In the Oval Office. And at a rally in Michigan.
schrodingers_cat
@The Thin Black Duke: Thanks for your input. There are some people who are so left that they endup being on the right. The horseshoe is a circle.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay: Well, we yeeted Biden into the sun, so that has to tell you something.
The Audacity of Krope
@Gloria DryGarden: Dominance displays feel good, but don’t accomplish much unless others subsume their own will to it. That’s why I prefer to relegate them to the bedroom.
The Audacity of Krope
@schrodingers_cat: And when all you have is a horseshoe hammer, all you see are horseshoe nails.
The Audacity of Krope
@Omnes Omnibus: Question. Was she there on the official business of Michigan? I guess I have enough to start reading…
ETA: Wait, RALLY?!?!?!?
Omnes Omnibus
@The Audacity of Krope: Yes, she was but…
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m still flabbergasted of the picture of Whitmer hiding behind her three-ring binder. Like…. damn, She knew she was cooked, but still…..
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yup, 16 years of DJTdiot this, DJTdiot that, befouling the FTMSM and Social Media has lead to massive brain rot in the US. Every time you listen to him or read his words, 10,000 brain cells die.
And a nation with an average Grade 6 Reading and Comprehension level, and an average IQ level just above functionally incapacitated, really can’t afford that.
If things continue, we are going to have to start coming down there every month or so, to slap most of you to remind you to breathe, or close your mouths as you stand there, staring, heads tilted upwards at the rain, so you don’t drown.
The Audacity of Krope
@Suzanne: I actually saw that. Like if you have a good reason to be there, own it. Or, if not, don’t be there.
MagdaInBlack
@Jay: So far I can still walk and chew gum at the same time.
Eduardo
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): He has always been a repulsive asshole.
Gloria DryGarden
@Bupalos: no one respects anyone else here? I disagree.
There can be disrespect, and fighting, skilled and unskilled, nuanced, and overtly attacking, yeah, sure. That we come here to share outrage, or get validation, well, sometimes that happens too.
But also a rich tapestry of ideas, layers, points of view, knowledge, wisdom, background information to deepen what we’re thinking about. A lot of what we talk about is important as hell.
I think this is more like zoom with cameras off, or radio with call-in. These are real people. I have Not agreed to not be a real person. Sometimes we touch each other, get each other, see some of what makes another tick, and it’s very gratifying.
Setting aside any loneliness quotient, or personal needs, there are sometimes nourishing moments and connections, in with the respite threads, and the big discussions about wars, politics, governments and world affairs.
If you are not real, if you are an AI entity writing here, do tell us.
meanwhile I am pregnant with anticipation, awaiting your writing submission, to my other writing request.
Suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope: Exactly. Make your choices and stand by them. And for FSM’s sake….. don’t pose in some ludicrous way with a photographer in the room.
So many political careers, thwarted by office supplies.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: or staring up at eclipses.
Its sad, but your description is effective. And apt. Not about all, but we know how many voted for that creep with his gold decor and glib lying tongue.
like many I’ve tried to speak w those who drank the koolaid. It’s weird. They think they’re high on some kind of truth..
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne: Binders full of women. Women hiding behind binders.
Gloria DryGarden
@The Audacity of Krope: right. That’s a good place for it. Consent, and safe words.
otherwise, it’s violence and war stuff.
The Audacity of Krope
@Suzanne: Perhaps it was one of Mitt Romney’s binders out to get her. Freed from the constraints of Republican Presidential ambition, they are now attempting consume talented Democratic women, more nourishing to sustain the administration staffing storage curse cast upon them.
Yes, it’s a pretty niche curse.
ETA: Beaten to the punch, yes, but I was busy painting a picture.
Suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope: Didn’t Amy Klobuchar throw a binder at one of her staffers? The plot thickens. Or binds.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: and thank goddess for that. Long may he fix things.
Now I have to look up technocrat
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
The really funny thing is, in BDSM, the sub is the Dom, and the Dom is the sub.
The sub sets the rules, boundaries, of “play”. The Dom can push the boundaries, but the sub can say “stop”, at anytime. Dom’s who don’t stop, lose the sub, and have a hard time finding subs, when word gets out.
Had a sub come over, one time one day. Had an elaborate “play” set up, was dressed for it. They came in the door, had a shit day, asked to cancel the playdate. Okay, Plan B. Hot bath poured, whiskey glass filled, cigar given, and sitting there in full regalia, back against the toilet, listening to their shitty day.
Jay
@Gloria DryGarden:
A Technocrat is somebody who knows how the sausage is made.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: so glad kind people like you exist.
now I want a whiskey…
(I rarely even drink)
They probably felt safe with you, there in your full regalia…
The Audacity of Krope
@Jay: That is profound. And beautiful. Thank you.
@Suzanne: I’m dying laughing
Gloria DryGarden
@Suzanne: so, you’re saying, some people are in a bind? We’re in a bind?
sorry, word play is only a momentary joy.. a little game
Suzanne
@Jay: I’ve been assured that technocrats are bad, or something. But, in general, I’m a fan of planners and nerds.
Suzanne
@Gloria DryGarden: Who knew that the simple binder contained so many multitudes?
Irony: last week, I was cleaning out a closet, and found some old binders from graduate school. Contents went into the recycling, as they do not SPARK JOY. I’ll reuse the binders, though!
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: setting aside stupid jokes about sausage, and hungry thoughts of Italian sausage on pasta,
I am weeping tears of relief to think there is someone in a nearby country, who is good at fixing things. Who has and will fix things, is fixing things now.
I feel safer knowing you’re almost ww2 ready, it beats imagining if you weren’t. It cuts through the horror potential. I am sorry, though, that it’s become necessary.
more tears..
Gloria DryGarden
@Suzanne: and now, as you reuse them, it’ll be your little private joke, a tiny smirk as you go about your three hole punching and other business.
Jay
@Suzanne:
In the military, and a bunch of other professions, you don’t often want a technocrat as a “Leader”. They aren’t great at “Leading the Charge”. The technocrats are great at how we get there from here, keep the supply lines flowing, etc.
We are at the point where sausages have to be made.
Suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope: We’re missing all the opportunities to combine binder jokes with BDSM observations and enter a new level of bondage jokes.
Eduardo
@The Audacity of Krope: Fine with me if we have to run the whitest ticket ever if that means 1 % more chance of stopping fascism.
But not Newson, please. And again I wouldn’t mind to have to put up with his smarmy smile and his making John Edwards Jimmy Carter if that means no JD Vance or similar. It is that he just can’t win.
The Audacity of Krope
@Suzanne: I get claustrophobic. That’s terrifying.
Suzanne
@Jay: Usually, when politicians are referred to as technocrats, it’s not a compliment. But nerd recognizes nerd, and I often really appreciate those people.
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
Binders or bondage?
There are many different kinds of binders, trapper keepers, etc,
Many different kinds of bondage.
Suzanne
@The Audacity of Krope: I don’t get claustrophobic, but I do consider emergency egress.
Jay
@Suzanne:
Pete is a good example of a Technocrat.
I prefer people who know how things actually work, over word salad.
When it’s optimal, everybody below the “Leader” is a Technocrat.
When the “Leader” is a moron,………. well.
Gloria DryGarden
@Baud: when you get on the calendar, will you create outrageous acts of reconstructing, only with caps, headline grabbers, and lots of emojis?
I don’t mind if you skip the pope outfit in whitish gold, or the burly fake strong hyper masculine man look.
but if you could, please grab some headlines away from that unnamed man. Please.
Jay
@Suzanne:
In Japanese rope bondage, egress takes 15 seconds, done right. There is an 8 month course on that. And that’s with every 4 inches or less, of the entire body, tied and constrained, sometimes suspended.
Meanwhile Evangelical “leaders” auto asphyxiate in 2 wetsuits with 2 dildos, while hanging from a closet rod.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Jay:
Pete is a technocrat, no doubt about it. He has policy issues I don’t like (which is what endears him to the slick, technocrat loving New Dem/New Liberalism clowns).
But, and we’ve discussed this over the last couple of days, he’s an amazing communicator who comes across as really authentic. He was a proverbial breath of fresh air in that regard in 2020. *That’s* what sets him apart from other technocrats that elements of the self-professed progressive white professional class are drawn to.
He has what Biden has in terms of conveying an authenticity that gets people onboard. He has what Walz has, again, authenticity. Warren has it. Damn few other Dems do.
People rightfully are skeptical about him on other levels than mine, like his McKinsey background.
But I’m always highly impressed whenever I see an interview with him.
His emails when he was DOT secretary went to everybody. At that level communicating to an agency you head isn’t an exercise in great politicking, but he was head and shoulders above any of the other DOT heads during my 27+ years with the agency.
Gloria DryGarden
@Omnes Omnibus: I missed the bdsm angle on that, but just thought (pregnant +woman+ submissive) plus a man’s pov on those things. It could be revealing, or interesting, possibly insightful.
after all everyone has lived through one pregnancy, we all gestated…
And now we’ve come full circle back to the bdsm thing. Submitting in play is so different from submitting in real life due to coercive circumstances, being in a bind, etc.
Jay
@comrade scotts agenda of rage:
I will “forgive” his McKinsey. They hire green MBA’s, give them a script and make them salesmen for bad cookie cutter ideas.
Pete’s record since then, got a bit better.
In the Biden Admin his record got “stellar”, which shows he learns. And yes he has become an effective communicator.
In contrast, knew (know) a bunch of people from back in the day when I worked in a Cubicle Farm, that became “consultants”. They are still selling everyday, the same shit they complained about every day when they were in the cubicles.
And yet, they make bank.
“Yes we can write custom code for that”.
The Audacity of Krope
Either. When I think binders I can only imagine the people on pages and…shudder…that’s beyond restrictive.
To date, I haven’t done much with mechanical restraints. Or gear generally. My few times I sought out a dom (which was sometimes a couple) most was done with just the body. Just something primal about it. And so directly intimate. I once witnessed the most beautiful eyes in a vulnerable moment. Still many aspects of power to explore there.
I do like to experiment. That usually entails me meeting someone with their passion they’re experienced with. Haven’t met the right person I let bring me into bondage.
So I guess I only DSM for now.
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
There is bondage, bondage and there is bondage.
One is primarily restraint. You can’t touch yourself. Your release is by your Dom.
Then there is another Bondage, where the restrictions are the kink. Physical sensation, often pain, coupled with the sexual experience.
The last Bondage, is often a form of sexual slavery, (IMHO) never works out well, where the sub subsumes their self to the Dom. Counterproductive most often. The sub does a shitty job cleaning the house, so they will get punished. The thing is, punishment is the reward for a sub, not punishment.
Like most human sexuality, it is complex.
Bupalos
@Gloria DryGarden: You missed the BDSM angle because there was no original BDSM angle. The word “pregnant” can of course mean things like “rife with expectation or meaning” and things like that, but there wasn’t going to be any exploration of the entire take there because it fundamentally clashed with algorithmic correctness. What I meant is that Carney came into a Trump meeting, as so many do, with some hopeful expectations about how to play Trump through flattery and submission. I think like so many others he’ll find a stillbirth here.
Anyway, I’m giving up in a certain sense and going to try to limit my contributions here to noting the ways that this new kind of communication and society that happens online tends to make everyone worse. There are reasons why the internet and Trump go together like, I don’t know, whatever kinky Jay said… tied up dominants and cigars or whatever.
The Audacity of Krope
@Jay: For the record, I did an excellent job cleaning the house. I can delay whatever gratification comes from doing a superficial bad job to prompt a “punishment” I theoretically want. Besides, I take pride in my work. This, too, led to a few surprisingly sexy moments, which I’ll spare the broader public the details. Though I may have discussed them on the radio.
I also learned a better method for folding clothes for my efforts.
But yeah, suppose I never thought of that second category as bondage. Being overly literal, I suppose.
The Audacity of Krope
Why am I suddenly under the impression this one thinks every last one of us is AI?
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
MAGgot’s think everything is AI now that Grok has gone woke.
The Audacity of Krope
@Jay: Grok?
Bupalos
@Omnes Omnibus: He hasn’t, he even fights it a bit. But societies that form around polarization create their own algorithmic functions that drive the discussion, and ultimately the thought processes, in particular directions.
There actually is a rich descriptive use of natural analogues in the world of algorithm design, for the simple reason that algorithms exist and define behavior systems in nature. And lo and behold as I search, there is a wonderful one that you can be sure I’ll be repurposing here in future exchanges:
The Golden Jackal Optimization (GJO) algorithm
Bupalos
@The Audacity of Krope: Algorithmic behavior is completely natural. I don’t think there are any bots here, Cole has wisely stuck to a format that doesn’t feed them and us ‘likes.’
The Audacity of Krope
Okay, so what does that mean for us in practical terms?
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
Felon Husk’s Grok AI put out a screed a couple of days ago, saying that while they tried to train it on RW Talking points it was programmed to seek truth and facts, so that’s what it does.
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
Nothing, it’s word salad.
The Audacity of Krope
@Jay: Is that real? This suggests something I considered unlikely, the top right wingers actually believe their bullshit enough to expect a favorable result from a machine designed to seek verifiable fact.
Stunning.
@Jay: Nevertheless curious to see the explanation.
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/maga-angry-elon-musks-grok-210901840.htm
The Audacity of Krope
@Jay: This chatbot seems more candid and insightful than your typical national news reporter.
Jay
@The Audacity of Krope:
Sadly, the Robot Uprising might be a good thing in the US.
Bupalos
@The Audacity of Krope: Mostly I guess that when you’re in a kind of system that rewards or punishes a certain kind of behavior, we should think about to what extent our thoughts may be bound by it.
As I think about it what I constantly overreact to, as I have done here, is just the personalization. It feels like a deliberate attempt to derail when folks just call each other stupid brain-rotted animals or whatever at the drop of a hat. Like, it’s just a take. It’s not aimed at anyone here. I think Carney will end up getting dinged over the long haul for going there and praising Trump and letting him continue with the insults. I had a couple texts about it that made me watch and maybe watch in that light. I could be wrong about that.
On the other hand, the first response or two I could have listened to more and just taken the “my take is that Canadians on the whole are different and will understand this” as a reasonable response, as it is. I kind of wrote past it back into my own take and got bewildered by getting the personal stuff.
chemiclord
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Well, I know Whitmer did it because it looks good for the UAW, and they were one of her primary supporters.
I doubt either honestly think Trump would handle such a deal properly, but they have to make the proper mouth noises to, “Oh yeah, let’s bring these manufacturing jobs back to the USA.”
The Audacity of Krope
So there are definitely more familiar, accessible terms for defining this phenomenon. Still, it isn’t exactly like we’re a hive mind. We often disagree and can each provide unique insights whether agreeing or not.
You explained how in a forum like this, it can be hard to view others as people, which is true. I also believe you wouldn’t have raised this if you didn’t struggle with it yourself.
So maybe pay a tiny bit more attention to what other individuals are saying and remember there will be unique elements. Some people you pay attention to long enough, you may even get a sense of their overall outlook.
A good practice for trying to consider others points of view is often to simply repeat part of what they said back in your response. It shows you’re listening and tends to create an earnestly responsive line of thought.
Also, feel free to try some snark. Some things don’t need or sometimes even deserve more than a pithy, wry response.
Bupalos
I meant it a little differently. Not that we’re not viewing each other as people– that is, forgetting that there are real people behind the messages — but that we actually just aren’t really our regular human selves online. I think that’s normal, it’s not a “real” place, and there’s no reason a place that’s very different from the real world in important ways wouldn’t be very different in terms of the way people relate to one another and treat one another and the tolerance and consideration we have for each other’s thoughts. But I am coming around to the idea that it’s a place that makes us worse, less able to engage in constructive conflict, less tolerant of opposing views and less willing or able to understand them. I think it promises and delivers an increasing homogeneity of thought.
Which isn’t to say this is a particularly hive-mind space. For the internet I think it’s particularly good. I think it’s just its nature.
The Audacity of Krope
That is directly counter to my experience here. I have undoubtedly had my perspective shifted by others here. Failing to examine one’s thinking when challenged and not consider other views is generally called out here. Not by every person or on every matter. But plenty of constructive exchanges happen here. There has been plenty of deep conversation on this very thread.
I’m sorry, again, if your experience is otherwise. Just know that it remains possible to extend a little grace to someone you view as utter pain in the ass anywhere on the internet. Which I suppose you’ve expressed. So I guess I’m asking you to embrace the glass half full interpretation of that idea.
Hob
@Bupalos: I don’t mean to interrupt your musings on how nobody but you is an independent thinker or a fair arguer, but I felt like responding to one of the other proclamations you made earlier in the thread, because I think it gets at a basic reason why people are getting so extremely frustrated with you:
The interviewer was Terry Moran. Moran has had a long and extremely successful career in both print and broadcast news. What Trump said to him was: “I’m giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you’re doing the interview. And I picked you because, frankly I never heard of you, but that’s okay. But I picked you, Terry…” You decided that Trump’s statement was “true” because… I don’t know, I’m guessing because you don’t actually know the context and assumed that this was in fact some random reporter that nobody would’ve heard of if Trump hadn’t deigned to speak to him. Or because it’s apparently (based on your strenuous insistence that Carney was humiliated and that anyone who doesn’t think so is in denial) important to you to find ways to say that Trump is an unstoppable force of nature. But really all that Trump’s bullshit in this case showed was that Trump is a pathetic bully whose bullying doesn’t even make any sense because he is a fucking moron who really isn’t aware of who is interviewing him.
The Audacity of Krope
I’d go with aggressively conventional. The aggression, indeed, is one of the conventions.
Ken_L
THIS! People say “Oh it’s impossible to correct all his lies!” So what? If he lies three times in an answer to a question, stop and correct him. Have the receipts, so when he argues, prove him wrong. If the interview bogs down into a 30 minute shouting match about the price of eggs, all the better. It will be a ratings smash hit and everyone will see that Trump not only lied, but became childishly irrational when refusing to admit it. Rinse and repeat, until Trump refuses to appear anywhere except Hannity and Greg Kelly.
I mean what purpose is served by allowing him to lie? It’s not even good television. After 10 years, Trump ranting like a deranged toddler has become plain boring.