Joelle and I were talking earlier on facetime and I remarked that she looks ten years younger than she did earlier at work, and the sole reason was the lighting. We started talking about that and got to wondering why we as a society continue to tolerate shitty light in office like environments. No one fucking likes it. Ask anyone if they like brilliant overhead lighting and most everyone will say they hate it although you might find a few freaks out there who say “I don’t mind it” or “It doesn’t bother me.” Stay away from those people, they are daywalkers or something.
Seriously, though, this has a constituency of zero. If it was any less popular Republicans would nominate it as Vice President. So why does it keep happening? Is it codes? Cost? Lack of creativity?
War for Ukraine Day 1,188: Russia Continues To Bombard Ukrainian Civilian Targets
SpaceUnit
Fluorescent lighting makes everything ugly. It’s a conspiracy. Pretty sure the devil is behind it.
Jackie
Kari Lake should be consulted. The mistress of soft filtering ;-)
Bupalos
Money. Duh. Stop being a drone if you don’t want drone lighting.
Weird phrasing. I can’t even figure out what it means.
“Work Lighting” is designed for a particular task. It has nothing to do with how young the employees look in… whatever picture is taken of them. We are soooo far away from any employer thinking about flattering light that…. I’m genuinely enthused that anyone posting to this devil box could mistake that this was a real thing. Because…. IT COULD TOTALLY BE A REAL THING IF WE WANTED IT TO BE A REAL THING!!!
Old Dan and Little Ann
If there is enough natural light coming through my windows, I keep the lights off in my classroom as much as possible. If I’m alone they are definitely off.
Bupalos
Here’s my 60/40 prediction: This blog will die, because it doesn’t engage in rating the comments. If it did engage in rating the comments, then the comments would become more predictable, would gradually and almost imperceptibly edge towards every other blog….would gradually shift to pointing and laughing at Cole.
Because what the internet feeds on is the ratings on the comments. That’s the data that powers internet evolution.
I’m still leaving a 40% chance that humans don’t let this shit happen.
Peke Daddy
Some ideas.
https://youtu.be/ejJj05_BzoE?si=sSE3IXPvxNSc9Tgv
Jennifer Altmiller
@Jackie: Kari Lake makes no worthwhile contribution to the world as a human being.
All other thoughts deleted before posting.
SpaceUnit
@Bupalos:
Bad comment. One star.
Chetan Murthy
@Jennifer Altmiller: My elders taught me that if you can’t say anything nice about a person, then don’t say anything at all.
In that spirit, if Kari Lake predeceases me, I will say “nice!”
middlelee
Fluorescent lighting is godawful, period. Overhead lighting is useful. I turn mine on in order to vacuum and dust or to sort piles of papers. The rest of the time I have excellent lamps I turn on.
NotMax
Office lighting not nearly as atrocious and mentally dispiriting a thing as is a sea of cubicles. IMHO.
Jackie
@Jennifer Altmiller:
LOL!
Phylllis
@Old Dan and Little Ann: My district converted an old middle school building into the district office, so everyone got these enormous classroom spaces as offices. Mine is on the southeast corner, and I got the best/most natural light. I was in heaven. So of course the superintendent immediately decided to have the tinted window film installed throughout the building. I was madder’n a wet hen. Part of the reason I retired when I did.
John Cole
@Bupalos: Was it sativa or indica tonight?
prostratedragon
@NotMax: But it does have the virtue of making a person squint their eyes so badly that they might barely see the sea of cubicles.
Jackie
Muskrat’s SpaceX Starship wipes out annnd crashes into the Indian Ocean.
Chetan Murthy
@John Cole: aaaaahahahahahaha …. But we -do- rate things! We rate the pet pics! They’re all 14/10!
Jennifer Altmiller
@Jackie: thank you for liking my comment.
The outrage fatigue doesn’t even have any traction. The egregious crimes, grift and corruption persist. We never stopped this. Shame on us.
Ohio Mom
This question should have been asked before Suzanne went to bed.
I like bright lights but I have eyes with issues.
lowtechcyclist
@Bupalos:
You describe a death spiral as a consequence of rating comments, and then say that NOT rating comments will cause this blog to die.
You realize this makes no sense at all. Or maybe you don’t.
Omnes Omnibus
@Bupalos: Climate change will probably kill the blog before a lack of ratings will. Also, are you sure you want people to rate your comments?
Jackie
Well this settles that rumor: (wink)
Chetan Murthy
@Jackie: Oh come now. I believe everything Melania says. She’s the First Lady after all!
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
Isn’t she the 3rd Shady?
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: She’s not a lady, that’s for sure.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: Also haha, I will give Jarvanka this: they know better than to get embroiled with this administration. I think they know that there’s going to be an “after”: maybe it’ll be The Fourth Reich, maybe it’ll be like France’s Fourth Republic. Either way, likely there’ll be a lotta long knives, and they might think it’s wise to stay away.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
The “short attention” comments reminded me of a “thing”.
Lot’s of USians comments on You Tube vids of various types asking if the Canadian Boycott “is still a thing”.
Yes it is, and will persist for decades.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: jay, if I have to leave the only home I have ever known, I will NEVER FUCKING FORGIVE this country; I will move all my savings out of this country and will never buy American, that’s for goddamn sure.
I am -ecstatic- when I learn of foreigners boycotting the US, not visiting the US as tourists, etc. -Ecstatic-. MAGAts talk about “I don’t recognize my country anymore”. Yeah, that’s me, now. And grew up in Texas Goddamn!
Jackie
@Chetan Murthy:
@Jay:
@Chetan Murthy:
😂 🤣 😂
Jackie
@Chetan Murthy:
It’s pretty sad when we find ourselves rooting for the countries boycotting the US, but here we are. 😢
Chetan Murthy
@Jackie: Yes indeed. I am -convinced- that the only way back for the US is a dramatic and steep economic failure — deep and steep enough to shock as many people as possible out of their complacency, to shock as many people as possible out of their bigotry and get them to focus on national survival.
If instead we get a slow decline, that will give MAGA time to entrench themselves. If Trump gets a chance to spend four years installing judges and generals (this time, he’ll demand personal fealty just like Hitler did), we’ll be fucked.
ETA: It is likely that economic failure will bring with it the end of American hegemony, but that’s a price well worth paying for the salvation of our Republic.
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: Needless to say, it is -critical- that Trump’s fingerprints be all over the failure.
Jackie
@Chetan Murthy: I’m watching Lawrence O’Donnell on time delay: apparently Wall Street has dubbed the new acronym TACO: Trump Always Chickens Out when it comes to tariffs… WALL STREET!!!😂
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
I am still LAMFAO that the “Titians of Industry”, took 3 f/n months to realize that a “boycott” was much worse than a 25% tariff FFS.
Canadian’s are big drinkers*. You kinda of half to do that when you live above the Crack house that is ‘Merica.
Break open the 2/4, (that 24 beers, 4 6 packs), crank up the Hip, order up some Indian take out, because “the kkkops” are not responding, just sane washing.
*just under the Ozzies.
Chetan Murthy
@Jackie: “When you’re sitting at the table, wondering who the mark is, the answer is -you’re- the mark”
Sigh. These jokers, they really do think he’s under-control. They’re von Papen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Papen#Bringing_Hitler_to_power
They simply don’t understand that they’re dealing with a gangster.
Chetan Murthy
@Jackie: @Jay: Last I heard, he hadn’t removed the tariffs on Canada. Nor South Korea. I fully expect that if the EU doesn’t eat his shit, he’ll impose the tariffs and damn the torpedoes.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
He lifted them, put them back on.
We never lifted them.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: I saw the King’s Speech today. From what I read, it’s really Carney’s speech, but it was still pretty stirring to see it delivered by the King of the UK. You are fortunate in your leaders and fortunate in your countrymen and -women.
Gretchen
@Jackie: Hahahaha! So they’ve heard the speculation and it bothers them. Good. Let Trump think about it every time he mentions Harvard, knowing that everyone is thinking his son didn’t get in.
And I don’t believe for a moment that a man whose entire existence depends on status and one-upping everyone else about status wouldn’t insist that his son apply to all the Ivy League schools. I wonder how much he had to pay NYU to take his kid.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
Some of them are bug fuck crazy. Just not enough yet.
Jay
https://www.ctvnews.ca/vancouver/article/new-westminster-to-remove-us-flag-from-queens-park-arena/
prostratedragon
Jay
@prostratedragon:
You weren’t going fast and breaking things.
Get up to speed.//
hitchhiker
@Gretchen: Exactly what I thought. Maybe Melania hasn’t heard of the Streisand Effect, so she thinks people will stop talking about how Barron was too dumb to get into Harvard.
She just guaranteed that it’s always going to be a thing, lol.
Lord, I loathe these ugly, vicious people so much. However this ends, I will be dancing in the street for days.
Jay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8peiLVFsLdw
We will survive.
Chetan Murthy
@prostratedragon: IANAR(ocket)S(cientist) This seems interesting https://www.planetearthandbeyond.co/p/starship-was-doomed-from-the-beginning
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: Lovely! She’s a good singer too!
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: One thing that seemed …. wrong about the argument, is that IIUC Falcon9 is fully-reusable; the article says it is not. It’s a minor point, but OTOH if he can’t get that right, I do wonder about the rest. But again, I’m simply not qualified to judge.
prostratedragon
@Chetan Murthy:
Not one either, of course. But I thnk the iterations are supposed to be steps in a convergence, which in turn is supposed to be a feasible state. The author seems to casting doubt on both.
Ealbert
Regarding Masks Falcon9: I am not a rocket scientist, hell, I am not any kind of scientist. I did however read science fiction stories like he did. What he apparently forgot is that you don’t launch big manned interplanetary ships from Earth. You build big space stations and build your interplanetary ships in your space station shipyards. That way you don’t have to build something heavy enough and strong enough to get out of a gravity well. That is what shuttles are for. Of course, in those stories, you were also mining your asteroid belt rather than wasting energy shipping up all that heavy metal. I guess that would be thinking too long term.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
#Mericans don’t understand Canadians, or pretty much any body else.
In WWI, when the Germans crucified the Canadian Officer, (May be, may be not), the Canadians stopped taking prisoners.
19 out of the first 22 Geneva Conventions, were written because of Canadian actions.
opiejeanne
@prostratedragon: I’m glad to see some people still awake. It’s a quarter to 10 am in Paris.
We’re getting on a train to Brussels at about 12:30, tomorrow is our flight to Iceland, and then home on Sunday.
I just learned that both Belgium and France are level 2 threats on the terrorism index, and not once have I been worried. People are generally very nice to old ladies in casts riding in wheelchairs, and they are confused about where we are from. Even Aussies seem to think we’re Brits, which is amusing.
I doubt that Iceland is even on that threat scale.
Gloria DryGarden
@Jay: it’s a really great song, and this version is perfect for this moment.
that man in the WH, he’s fucked us over pretty deeply. Us and ROW.
our hearts are broken here, too.
and like someone else said, I’m rooting for all the countries boycotting us. Glad for it, although we’ll suffer. Because no one should have to put up with this garbage.
Gloria DryGarden
@opiejeanne: have a wonderful time in Brussels and in Iceland. I’m glad you can continue your trip even though you got injured; good luck with the logistics and complications.
Did you get to see what you wanted, in Paris? (And eat some amazing food?) Amazing city.
I have seen photos of Iceland, but I have no idea what the land feels like. Looking forward to your reports/ photos…
m.j.
I see NPR is upset that Donny doesn’t recognize all the hard work they’ve put in helping him to get elected twice.
prostratedragon
@opiejeanne:
I’m sure that in your delicate regard for tbeir feelings you did little to persuade them otherwise.😉 Sounds like the trip has been very enjoyable.
Baud
@Bupalos:
T’was the emoji ban that killed this blog.
NotMax
@Baud
Not a strict ban so much as a discouragement.
:)
Geminid
There’s a lot dismal news out there, but I thought the speech Syrian President Ahmad al-Sharaa delivered yesterday was a bright spot. Al-Sharaa spoke in Aleppo, on the two-year anniversary of his vow to liberate Syria’s largest city. Aleppo’s fall last December triggered the collapse of the Assad regime.
From news site Sy24ria:
opiejeanne
@Gloria DryGarden: Thanks. We got to see things we hadn’t seen before, had to adjust to using taxis because it was too difficult to use the metro, after riding it and the bus a few times. We gave the cards away this morning to one of the hotel staff. Still lots left on them but they aren’t good in Brussels.
The trip to Avignon was both frustrating and wonderful. The food has been very good almost everywhere but I’m very aware that everything that I eat has to be pushed up a ramp later, but because I’m not very active I don’t get hungry as often.
we broke down and booked a group tour to Arles, but it was just the driver, guide, and the two of us so instead of Nimes we went to Pont du Gard.
Baud
@Geminid:
Sounds woke.
Soapdish
I gotta wonder, when do the shortages start to occur? I was promised shortages.
(I’m being flippant here, but we’ve been saying how bad things are going to get for the Average Joe/Jane for months now, but for the vast, vast majority of people things are essentially the same as they were. It undercuts us.)
Matt McIrvin
@Soapdish: On my last grocery-store trip it seemed to me that they were doing some of the kind of shelf rearrangements you do when there are items you can’t get. Canned cat food and poultry seemed to be in limited supply. But whether that is related to anything, I don’t know–these aren’t imported items and such shortages can happen for any number of reasons.
Gloria DryGarden
@Soapdish: I’ll let you know when my snap gets cut. I’ll notice, for sure. Or if I go get new tires, I’ll find out if tariffs have jacked the prices up.
Baud
@Soapdish:
Probably won’t happen. Stores stocked up early on and Trump has been caving on traiffs. But if any shortages do happen, it’ll likely be over the summer.
ETA: Liberals always have a bad habit of living within their tenuous predictions rather than in the here and now.
Suzanne
Showing up late, but here’s the answer to the lights question: by code, spaces are required to have certain lighting levels for safety. You can get there any way you want. Overhead lights are the most efficient, inexpensive way to light an area. They throw a lot of light and you can get even coverage (fewer overlit spots). If they’re hung in a grid ceiling, they’re easy to maintain and replace. Most overhead lights installed these days are LED, not fluorescent.
This is related to the question of why workspaces do cubicles instead of offices. You can probably light 12 cubicles with 2 lights, depending on size.
Baud
Looking forward to the articles on the health benefits of leeches.
Suzanne
@Baud: Oh man, you’re behind the times. Leech therapy is indeed used, and works well.
Professor Bigfoot
@Jay:19 out of the first 22 Geneva Conventions, were written because of Canadian actions.
While I’d heard of the Canadian war crimes (one reason why I knew Canadians would FIGHT), I hadn’t heard it was because of the “crucified soldier.” Jeez.
I only know this: if you’ve ever watched a hockey game, you know Canadians will drop them gloves and throw hands in a millisecond.
They’re nice, they’re polite, and they will HURT yo’ ass.
Baud
It’s interesting that no one complains about prices and housing costs anymore.
Suzanne
@Baud: You must not be on Xhitter. Lots of housing price complaints.
Professor Bigfoot
@NotMax: I thought the Blogfather was adamantly against emoji-only comments; so I’ve occasionally included one in mine just for clarity sake. 😉
Baud
@Suzanne:
Damn. On one hand, leeches are natural. On the other hand, that looks like a scientific study. I don’t know what to believe.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Yeah, a lot of the doom predictions assumed that Trump was going full speed ahead with the monster tariffs he initially pronounced, rather than sticking with tariffs just bad enough to bite and leaving the rest as a perpetually receding 90-day threat.
I’ve heard that container traffic hasn’t recovered, which may mean a lot of manufactured goods will be harder to get down the line, and a lot of small businesses that rely on Chinese parts are having trouble already. But you won’t necessarily see that at the supermarket.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Not on there. All the reasons why Dems failed us have been removed from my info bubble.
Ohio Mom
@Matt McIrvin: The packaging, or components of the packaging, may come from abroad.
Yesterday I met a disability mom whose husband works for Conagra (a packaged food company that owns a lot of brands you’d recognize, Duncan Hines, Birds Eye, Slim Jim, Hebrew National, etc.). She said they are in a panic about tariffs.
I don’t know if that is about the ingredients or packaging or that, as she said, they are expecting a huge economic downturn.
Matt McIrvin
…Oh, yes, they had no bananas. Well, they were running really low and the few that were left were sad-looking. But, again, this happens sporadically for any number of reasons.
Suzanne
@Baud: Housing prices being high is due in larger part to Republicans.
I still remember being directed to solicit public comment to replace a dead tree, and one of the comments being, “Can you make the tree grow faster?”.
Baud
@Suzanne:
Could you?
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne:
Right before the pandemic hit, it seemed like even cubicles were disappearing in favor of open-office arrangements out of the Victorian era, with insufficient working space to even accommodate everyone. And those are the offices that bosses are trying to get people to come back to with RTO orders.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Soon we’ll all be sitting in the floor.
Matt McIrvin
@opiejeanne: I recall noticing in the early 1990s that Europeans seemed inclined to identify people speaking North American English dialects as Canadian, and it probably wasn’t because they were more likely to be Canadian; it was because Canadians took way more offense at being mistaken for US citizens than the reverse.
Suzanne
@Baud: I’m good, but I’m not that good.
@Matt McIrvin: Yes, the contemporary office aesthetic is for workstations with fewer divider panels. (I don’t do corporate interior architecture any more, but I still follow it.) I just think it’s funny when people wonder why we build stuff they don’t like. Nine times out of ten, the answer is “because it’s cheaper”. The tenth time, it’s “because it’s a rule”. LOL.
Baud
@Baud:
In = on
Soprano2
@Jackie: So? They all lie all the time. Her saying that is meaningless. That’s what happens when you’re a known liar, no one believes you even when you’re telling the truth.
They Call Me Noni
@Jackie: Kinda like rooting against your football team so they get first pick in the draft.
They Call Me Noni
@Chetan Murthy:
They are already entrenched which is why we’re in the position we are in.
BretH
i worked at the same software company for 20 years (we built a corporate travel booking and expense reporting tool) and saw firsthand the progression from shared offices to grouped cubicles to finally an open “flexible” workspace with long desk areas with “V” shaped dividers separating work areas. Lots of little meeting rooms and tiny “personal spaces”. When they were promoting it all the drawings showed exec/sales types with their little laptops while we devs with our dual and triple monitor setups just shook our heads. It was every bit as horrid as it sounds. We were far more productive in our little offices, chatting with each other on AIM.
RevRick
@Matt McIrvin: @Suzanne: I remember learning in my Social Psychology class about a famous experiment at the Western Electric Hawthorne plant where they adjusted the lighting and asked the workers to rate the adjustment. First, they gradually increased the brightness, and every increment was rated an improvement. Then they gradually decreased the brightness. And every decrease was rated an improvement, until they returned to the original level and it received the best rating!
It turned out that the most important factor was the asking the employees how they felt and not the actual lighting level. It became known as the Hawthorne Effect.
Personally, I hate fluorescent lighting. I can hear the 60-cycle hum which bores into my skull. Besides, it reminds me of my 8 am calculus and linear algebra class in the gray cinderblock classroom in the basement of the Science Hall.
lee
@Bupalos: The blog will die because it doesn’t have threaded comments!!!
/s
/ducks
lee
On the topic of work lighting:
The Admin for our department would switch on all the lights when she got to work. Literally no one else in the area wanted all the lights on (around 30 people). For a variety of reasons there was much rejoicing when she finally retired. Of course about 6 months later the pandemic hit so now I work from home in dark office.
RevRick
@SpaceUnit: I know what He’ll is like. I spent a semester in it.
Suzanne
@RevRick:
Everyone hates it, don’t worry.
The vast majority of normies don’t have a sense of how much more complicated buildings are relative to even 30 years ago. Energy codes in particular get increasingly stringent with each three-year cycle. So, to get buildings compliant, we have to use less and less energy. Lighting uses up a lot of energy. So, we go to overhead LED, and we go to big open areas rather than individual offices, and we go to glassy interior partitions (like around conference rooms) to share light. Some big box stores go to skylights. All of this is to be compliant. None of it is because building occupants especially like it.
Miss Bianca
@Bupalos: If we rated comments on this blog, yours would consistently be at the bottom of the heap.
So you can be thankful. For what it’s worth.
RaflW
I had friends in my dorm who always turned on the nasty, brutish florescent overhead light, and friends (like me) who didn’t. Ugh. It’s your home, guys, not a classroom!
BellyCat
Allegedly, WalMart leads big box stores in the sky lighting department. Recall a study some years ago that aside from energy benefits, worker productivity and attendance increased. Who knew a connection to the outdoors matters to people when stuck indoors all day?
Another Scott
PSA:
Haven’t tried it myself yet.
Best wishes,
Scott.
Jackie
@Soprano2: You must have missed my comment posted above the article:
I usually assume every denial from a Trump means the opposite more often than not.
Jackie
@They Call Me Noni:
LOL I still can’t bring myself to ever do that.
prostratedragon
Process diverges at about 6:30 and again aroun 9:10.
“Gazza Ladra”
Gin & Tonic
@Suzanne: Yet the thing is, LED allows for different color temperatures, yet the office default, even with LED’s, seems to be the 5000K “bright white” – which I think is too harsh (and too reminiscent of fluorescent tubes) for most people, Dial it down to 4000K and I think a lot of people would be more comfortable.
Paul in KY
The lighting is to make it harder to sleep at work.
Paul in KY
@Jackie: Anybody can get into Harvard if they pay full price.
Ruckus
My kitchen celling light is about 4 ft long and has 4 small florescent tubes. 2 burned out and they were replaced with 4 tubes with LED lights inside, which last a lot longer, are brighter and whiter – nice for a kitchen. So technology has struck again – and in a good way. Much longer lasting, lower energy usage, better light for the kitchen, instant on. Now would the be nice say in a living room? I’d say no but then there I use lamps that have LED bulbs, had them for a long time, not one has burned out, yes they are slightly more costly than a filament bulb but overall the cost is far less and the light is very good and they use less electricity than a filament bulb – 5 watts. So, far less and bright. I’ve had them for some years and they haven’t stopped working, unlike a filament bulb – which of course always burns out at the most inconvenient moment. Technology CAN work. Whoda known?
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
In an office they that “lead” want it bright so no one falls asleep and face plants into their keyboard. Or while clocked in. Or has an excuse of not being able to see what they are supposed to be looking at. And they want to spend the least amount of money possible to make that happen because then they can get a raise and make even more for doing the least possible.
dnfree
@middlelee: We have excellent lamps just because my husband likes lamps, both for the lighting and the appearance of the lamps. I don’t think our kids are going to want all the lamps.
Ruckus
@Omnes Omnibus:
OK, I’m late to this post, left coast person here…
But your question is priceless.
Ruckus
@Jackie:
He has bluster.
That is his sole value. Bluster. And of course bluster is a nice way of saying BS. He’s highly educated. Whoda ever been able to tell? Review his last 30 years and rate him on a scale of 0-1000. You’ll never get out of double digits, possibly not out of single digits. And besides just being him, he’s aging out. Most of us do this to some degree, his is to the ninth degree. Which means rapid and far.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
A wanna be gangster.
He ain’t got the stones to be a gangster. He’s a pompous, arrogant rich child in an oversized body, who thinks the world revolves around his wallet. It doesn’t.
Ruckus
@Chetan Murthy:
You are overthinking it.
He was born into money, earned reasonably well and properly – his father owned a lot of business property and leased it out. At least that’s what I noticed reading financial stuff and was told quite a few years ago, when I was in a specialty manufacturing business that my father started and which I owned longer than he did.
What he’s done with that money since is all upon him though.
Ruckus
@Gloria DryGarden:
I haven’t been in quite a few decades but it looked like ice the last time I was there. Now I’ve been quite a bit farther north and east and that was cold but it was just when winter was starting so set in so not bone chilling cold, just not warm.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
You also do 3 other things.
First, you save money on building costs, all those full height walls and doors you didn’t build.
Second, you make it easier to supervise the entire room, and don’t end up with some possibly sleeping on their desks.
Third, you make it possible, with moveable partitions rather than walls to rearrange part of or all of the entire room.
TB Hill
@Jay:”In WWI, when the Germans crucified the Canadian Officer, (May be, may be not), the Canadians stopped taking prisoners.
19 out of the first 22 Geneva Conventions, were written because of Canadian actions.”
Was that the 1864 set of conventions or some time after WW1?
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus:
I laughed so loud I scared the cat, so of course I had to make this a rotating tag.
WaterGirl
@Professor Bigfoot:
You are correct, sir!