Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

This must be what justice looks like, not vengeful, just peaceful exuberance.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

“woke” is the new caravan.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

The snowflake in chief appeared visibly frustrated when questioned by a reporter about egg prices.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

They don’t have outfits that big. nor codpieces that small.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

“Loving your country does not mean lying about its history.”

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

Their shamelessness is their super power.

You are here: Home / John Cole Presents "This Fucking Old House" / Thursday Night Open Thread

Thursday Night Open Thread

by | 164 Comments

This post is in: 

I spent the entire day doing outdoor things and just wrapped up at 7pm, so I have no idea what is going on in the world and I think I am going to keep it that way until tomorrow morning. Spent a half hour on the back porch, and I saw dozens to hundreds of birds, a couple squirrels, two bunnies, and a couple chipmonks.

I really, really like all this going on in the backyard. I enjoy creating spaces for other people to enjoy. When I was a drinker I hosted a lot, and I spent most of the time at the sink doing dishes and running errands and what not, and I get the feeling of being around a lot of people and not having the fatigue of actually having to interact with all of them below the surface level. I guess I am just weird. I also dislike it when I introduce people and they become friends and then they try to get me to do shit with both of them- like all three of us trying to coordinate being in the same place at the same time that we all like. Pardon? Eww. No. Absolutely not. The whole point of me introducing you two was I thought you would like each other and could occupy YOUR time together.

Maybe I am not weird, I’m just an asshole.

But I do like sitting on the back porch and watching the critters.

Reader Interactions

164Comments

  3. 3.

    Raoul Paste

    Have a nice evening.  Here, the pooch has finally packed it in and settled down.  Hope your critters are equally sedate,

  6. 6.

    NutmegAgain

    Watching the backyard wildlife is good for the soul. In winter, I can see the footprints of deer and other things that can’t get in to my stockade fence. It’s necessary because my dog thinks the safety of the entire galaxy depends on him chasing critters. I still get corvids (crows, and rarely, ravens); raptors (red shouldered hawk, red tailed hawk, and there is a nesting pair of bald eagles out on the river who have not yet come by, but I live in hope). Fireflies! who are not out yet, but I left piles of leaves against the fence so they would have a space to do what they do. And last year I got some amazing butterflies, hope they come back.

  7. 7.

    rekoob

    @BlueGuitarist: It calls to mind James Keller’s observation that “a candle loses nothing of its light by lighting another candle”. (Okay, I’ll admit a small moment of diminution in the law of Conservation of Energy, but you know what I mean.)

    Mr. Cole may grump about things, but he’s a connector, and we all benefit.

  10. 10.

    lowtechcyclist

    Maybe I am not weird, I’m just an asshole.

    Can’t see anything assholish about it. You’re a bit of a misanthrope, and nothing’s wrong with that. You know who you are, you know what you can and can’t handle with respect to being social, and you don’t try to do more than you can handle with people just to please them. Sounds like good sense to me.

  11. 11.

    kindness

    John you have to be good interacting in some small groups.  You were a tank crew.  Talk about tight quarters and closely knit.

  12. 12.

    Chetan Murthy

    Nothing is lost by not being up-to-date on a daily basis as to the ongoing atrocities.  Nothing.  There’ll be more fresh hell tomorrow regardless.

  15. 15.

    RaflW

    In “This Fucking Not So Old House” news, we are in the second circle of dishwasher hell.

    The previous owners, who I guess designed the home (it’s a regionally known panelized ‘kit’ company, so maybe they just ordered an existing plan?) went with the DW in the island, not on the perimeter by the kitchen sink. DW is ancient and sometimes leaks (inconvenient!) so we ordered a new one.

    Installers came today and, well, rats. The same 1st owners at some point drywalled the ceiling of the laundry room below, so there’s no easy access to the underside of the island. Code has changed so they cannot just ‘swap it out’, they have to pull the copper pipe, and the drain line, upgrade both, and an electrician has to install a GFCI box.

    So we get to have our laundry room ceiling at least partly yanked down, then electrical and plumbing, then DW install — and then we’ll need a ceiling panel grid system, because I’ll be eff’d if I’d ever put drywall back up! You can’t access any of that shit if there’s a leak later. Jebus people are dumb. And our home inspector 5 years ago – who was mostly incredibly thorough – didn’t seem to catch this future risk either (not that the sellers woulda budged, but I’d have at least known this future cluster was comin’).

    Ah, well. Our relatives who are borrowing this place while we’re away next month will just have to hand wash, like g-d and nature always intended anyway.

  17. 17.

    piratedan

    since my move to the Northern Neck, we’ve traded the desert flora and fauna for lush greenery, tall trees and since my arrival we’ve seen beaver, raccoons, deer, foxes, osprey and eagles.  Birdsong in the mornings and geese and toads at night.  Something to be said for critters and creatures getting their usual business done.

  18. 18.

    SpaceUnit

    I’m a lot less social these days as well.  The country is a looney bin right now and I don’t want to be engaged with people very much.  I have no desire to get on a plane or go to a concert or pretty much go anyplace where there’s a bunch of unhinged people just waiting to go apeshit.

    I’m hunkering down and waiting for better days.

  21. 21.

    MagdaInBlack

    I don not have a back yard but I do love sitting on the balcony late at night, and often I am rewarded.

    One drizzly late night I spied a little bit of white something moving around the central green space. A little more looking found more little white somethings, which turned out to be the white markings on 6 skunks, out digging for earthworms and grubs. =-)

    One late night a fox wandered thru.

    Then there are the geese, which land on the roof above me with a thump…and a couple stomps to slow down and stop.

    The suburbs to have their late night wild-life after all

    eta: and of course, squirrels, everywhere. We do have black squirrels tho.

  22. 22.

    Barbara

    @piratedan: ​May I ask the name of the nearest town or in which county? We own a house in Richmond County near where my husband grew up.

  23. 23.

    RaflW

    In more pleasant news, I was burning some dry twigs and some fresh barberry clippings (nasty things, plants I’d never select for a landscape) late this afternoon and heard a couple brief loon calls. Love that!

    It’s surprisingly late in the season for a loon down here in SE WI, I think. I’m not hugely up on local phenology, but previously it’s been mostly March for migrating loons.

  24. 24.

    Suzanne

    @piratedan: One of the surprising things for me about leaving the desert and landing in the forest….. there’s so much roadkill. Animals, don’t cross the road!

  28. 28.

    indycat32

    Speaking of critters, the Cat Distribution System strikes again. I took a young homeless tortie to the clinic to be spayed a couple of days ago. Turns out she was in heat, so the vet said keep her inside for 10 days so the male cats can’t get to her and give her time to heal. Well, of course, she is the cutest, sweetest, friendliest kitty and how can I ever bring myself to put her out in 10 days. She is currently sleeping contentedly on my bed.

  29. 29.

    Gloria DryGarden

    Just found this Rachel Maddow &Stacey Abrams podcast interview, on How to fight fascism

    it was a worthwhile 15 minutes. Now that I know Stacey is doing podcasts, I think I’ll look her up for the longer version. Like Pete, she takes aim in a clear manner, and I feel better for listening to her.

    Enjoy!

  31. 31.

    BethanyAnne

    I heard on the radio that Steve Miller is touring this year. I’d love to see him perform.

  33. 33.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    I get it. I live just outside the DC border but our house sits next to a woodlot that connects to Sligo Creek Park and sitting on the back deck just listening to the birds is great. I’m messing with the Merlin app and when I play the call on my phone to see which song belongs to which birds, sometimes the bird will flit right onto the deck to investigate the interloper. Had a Catbird and Eastern Towhee do that last weekend. Pretty neat. We have Bard Owls that hoot at dusk and I think that’s just great.

  39. 39.

    Jackie

    @BethanyAnne:

    I heard on the radio that Steve Miller is touring this year.

    My first thought was WTF???

    Then I got it. Steve, NOT Stephen LOL

    The Steve Miller Band always gives a great concert!

  42. 42.

    Scout211

    An update on the MAHA report we have been making fun of all day in the comments:

    It was “ formatting issues”, people!

    Citation errors and phantom research used as scientific evidence to bolster Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s landmark “Make America Healthy Again” commission report were apparently due to “formatting issues,” according to White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt.

    LOLOLOL!

    She also didn’t say whether the report was generated by artificial intelligence, or AI, as some have questioned.

    Of course she didn’t say.  Because of course!

  45. 45.

    Jackie

    @Scout211:

    She also didn’t say whether the report was generated by artificial intelligence, or AI, as some have questioned.

    Ya, I think her words were “I can’t speak to that.”

    Verbiage akin to “I don’t recall.”Whatever.

  46. 46.

    Jay

    @Scout211:

    And so let’s take a quick trip to NOTUS:

    The White House is downplaying the “Make America Healthy Again” Commission report’s citation issues, even as it scrambles to fix them.

    A NOTUS investigation published Thursday found that at least seven of the report’s citations appeared to not actually exist. The White House publicly blamed any problems with the report on “formatting issues.”

    Hours later, a new version of the MAHA report was published on the White House website with all seven of those citations replaced — five with completely different references and two with references to real studies written by the same authors of the nonexistent earlier citations.

    While the replacement references all appear to be to real sources, it’s not immediately clear whether they all support the claims the report is making.

    The study included in the original report supposedly written by epidemiologist Katherine Keyes, for example, was replaced with a link to an article from KFF Health News on a similar topic.

    The two nonexistent studies linking direct-to-consumer advertising to the rise in prescription medication use in children were replaced with links to a 2013 New York Times article about ADHD medications and a 2006 study titled, “Trends in the Use of Psychotropic Medications Among Adolescents, 1994 to 2001.”

    And the mysterious study by pediatric pulmonologist Harold J. Farber titled “Overprescribing of oral corticosteroids for children with asthma”? It was replaced by one of Farber’s real publications, a study titled “Oral Corticosteroid Prescribing for Children With Asthma in a Medicaid Managed Care Program.”

    https://mockpaperscissors.com/2025/05/29/news-that-will-drive-you-to-drink-2298/

    GIGO.

  49. 49.

    Doc Sardonic

    The Miller boys, Steve and Stephen have one thing in common. They’re both assholes

  50. 50.

    prostratedragon

    @Scout211:  Formatting, eh? I do not think that word means what she thinks it means. And it will do her no good to come back and say, I meant kerning.

  53. 53.

    SW

    There is an irrigation ditch about a block away from my house and for the past five or six years I have Mallards that hang out in my yard munching on the seeds that fall from the bird feeder.  I started throwing a little on the ground for them.  The blue jays appreciate it too.

  58. 58.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Scout211: It was about as scientific as the junk science report on trans healthcare that “concluded” the only acceptable treatment is conversion therapy to torture trans kids until they’re no longer trans.

    Just a reminder that the anti-trans healthcare report was a preview of the strategy they’ll used to ban other types of healthcare, including vaccines and contraception.

  62. 62.

    BigJimSlade

    Asshole? Nah, I think the word is introvert. For us introverts, being around a bunch of people takes energy. For extroverts it gives them energy.

  63. 63.

    Chetan Murthy

    @BigJimSlade: I sometimes wonder how the introversion trait (from which I also suffer) survived in the human species, since it is so clearly maladaptive.

  64. 64.

    Grover Gardner

    You’re a delightful misanthrope, John. ;-)

    @sixthdoctor

    To quote the (possibly apocryphal) member of the Philadelphia Orchestra, when told that Eugene Ormandy had died after 44 years at the helm, “It’s not enough!”

  66. 66.

    prostratedragon

    @sab, @Sister Golden Bear:

    Maybe, as with much else, they really believe that scientists and scholars as a group are as careless cheats as themselves are, and only get published because the fix is in for some ideology, so no one ever checks anything. Amazing that so-called educated afults thimk any of this.

  67. 67.

    sab

    @Chetan Murthy: Maladaptive to what?

    Introversion is okay for farming. Okay for accounting. Okay for tedious handwork ( most of pre-industrial artisan work.)

    Maladaptive for vibrant urban life, which is itself not very adaptive (pandemics, crime, general disease.)

  68. 68.

    Chetan Murthy

    @prostratedragon: I think  the answer is different: They  DGAF.  As in “so it’s all bullshit; whaddayagonnadoaboudit?”  That’s a power play, right?  That’s saying “you don’t matter, and what you think doesn’t matter.”

    That’s what masters say to slaves.

  70. 70.

    Chetan Murthy

    @sab: Maladaptive to what?

    Humanity is a social species.  Much of the competitive advantage of humans against other species for the niches humanity inhabits, comes about because of our sociality.  Also, reproduction involves being social.  I think that introversion is maladaptive for these things.

  71. 71.

    sab

    @prostratedragon: They really live in a rich people bubble, not in the world where people have technical jobs and do work that is checked and critiqued and supervised.

  73. 73.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @Chetan Murthy: we’re the ones who go do the crafting/clothing making/inventing, and less likely to join mobs, so that’s why introverts survived

  76. 76.

    prostratedragon

    @Chetan Murthy:  I think there’s an awful lot of that in their seemingly clueless responses to things like qeustions about habeas corpus. But here, since their main argument boils down to “’cause we said so” anyway,  why? They didn’t need to try being specific.

  77. 77.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @sab: and they don’t pay attention to the lawyers either because we’re telling them not to trust the plagiarism machines (if they want the law changed, they need to lobby harder and with more money than Disney can)

  78. 78.

    sab

    @Chetan Murthy: You only need one mate to reproduce. And hopefully that mate stays home to help, and to farm and tend the livestock.

    Even introverts can be friendly and helpful to neighbors. Hanging out with neighbors because you are bored and lonely can really cut into your productive doing chores farming time.

    Those cows don’t milk themselves. Those crops don’t plant themselves. Weeding as a group enterprise stomps on the plants.

  79. 79.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @sab: we say that introverts need people, too. But 15 minutes will do it. (Some say 15 minutes is pushing it)

    what’s weird is being highly sensitive, introverted, and sensation seeking. I’ve created a way to be chatty and enjoy people, and I want all the colors and art, and experiences, and a little of the music and theater. And then, I want to garden or read alone, or write, in silence. For a day, at least

    .the balance is hard to get right. Need some of each. And one on one time can be very high quality

    do extroverts need or enjoy quiet alone time? Or is that a foreign concept

  80. 80.

    prostratedragon

    @sab:  Another way in which they are clueless about how the world works. There are probably millions of people in this country alone and down to junior high school who might be curious enough about something to check the references. And a Cabinet report will be read more widely.

  82. 82.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Jay: there’s a lot we can do from the background. You don’t know how deep the thoughts run. Possibilities!

  84. 84.

    sab

    @Gloria DryGarden: I have an extroverted step-son and quiet time just makes him wither. He really needs stimulus all the time. He gets a lot at work in a machine shop. At home he has a hyperactive dog that needs Walks. 

    I don’t know how he functions at all with the level of stimulus in his life, but he seems to need it. Always busy.

  85. 85.

    Kayla Rudbek

    Just finished a big knitting project today and my brain is clicking around on which project in progress to pick up next, or whether I should cast on something new. Since I only have 27 rows left on my mom’s shawl, I should be working on that one as the “couch knitting” project. But I feel all jangly and like I want to start a new project. Or maybe I should pick up some of my embroidery or weaving projects instead, as it’s getting more humid and the idea of having wool in my hands feels vaguely unappealing at the moment. Mom’s shawl is alpaca so just as warm as the wool.

    Or maybe I should actually do some decluttering for a change.

  86. 86.

    frosty

    @piratedan: I’m heading to Northern Neck to see my oldest friend in a couple of weeks. He sends the nature updates every now and then. The latest was a cow-nosed ray off his pier.

  87. 87.

    sab

    @Omnes Omnibus: How many times in your life on a farm do you need a barn built? Once it is built you have a barn.

    No farm community spends all its time building barns. The rest of the time they farm, mostly alone.

  91. 91.

    Sfinny

    @Chetan Murthy:  I think there are many situations historically that introversion would be a helpful trait, so it survived.  I know that during Covid restrictions my extrovert friends were going nuts, but I was fine.  So maybe we have our place in the whole continuity of society :-)

  92. 92.

    sab

    @frosty: “cow nosed ray off his pier”. What on earth is that? A weird ray fish?

    ETA It is! I could never tell rays apart. They all look flat and gray to me, but utterly graceful.

  93. 93.

    Layer8Problem

    @prostratedragon:  It’s kind of like in Clerks after Dante and Randal get thrown out of a friend’s wake and Dante wonders why they even went in the first place:

    Dante:  You hate people!
    Randal:  But I love gatherings. Isn’t it ironic?

  94. 94.

    Jackie

    @Gloria DryGarden:

    what’s weird is being highly sensitive, introverted, and sensation seeking. I’ve created a way to be chatty and enjoy people, and I want all the colors and art, and experiences, and a little of the music and theater. And then, I want to garden or read alone, or write, in silence. For a day, at least

    That’s me, also. For everyday of extrovertness, I need two days minimum of degrees of solitude.

    In my younger days I loved to socialize. But the last 15+ years I’ve grown to enjoy peace and quiet more often than not. Large crowds are a no-no after an hour or so. I start to feel claustrophobic.

  98. 98.

    Chacal Charles Calthrop

    @Chetan Murthy: introversion is only maladaptive in this modern, overcrowded world of ours. On the relatively empty planet which prevailed for most of human evolution, being able to go hunting or gathering for long periods of time by yourself was probably adaptive.

    how are things with the neighbor’s dog?

  101. 101.

    sab

    @frosty: After reading the comments below yours about ray v cow ray I too am excited. Really I am. That is a weird looking ray.

  103. 103.

    Kayla Rudbek

    @sab: shearing and harvest time seem to be when farmers get more social (need a lot of people to do the haying, harvesting, threshing, cattle/horse penning/driving, slaughtering; shearing the sheep can be done by a few people in these modern times,  don’t know how many people it took pre-industrial times). Count on various regular religious observances (probably set by the lunar calendar) as well, but there’s a lot of quiet time in farming (pre-Victrola, the prairie wives had trouble with the silence in the house as they were too remote from their neighbors, this was why everyone who could owned a piano or some other musical instrument, and why birds as pets were popular)

  106. 106.

    Kristine

    @Suzanne:

    One of the surprising things for me about leaving the desert and landing in the forest….. there’s so much roadkill. Animals, don’t cross the road!

    Southern Michigan in October. I swear I saw an ex-deer every mile or so, even along the smaller state roads. It’s a wonder there were any left for hunters.

  107. 107.

    Jay

    @sab:

    Oceana has one that shows off the “cow nose” really well, if you do a photo search.

    Like most Rays, it’s mouth is on the bottom, but unlike most Rays it’s mouth is a bulbus protuberance housing the mouth and sensory organs, adapted for getting prey out of the sand.

    It looks like a smiling cow.

  109. 109.

    sab

    @Jay: I saw that. A weird looking ray.

    Those guys are so graceful. I like rays a lot, except when I used to step on them when I was wading at the beach as a child.

  112. 112.

    Jackie

    This is weirdly interesting:

    “Federal authorities are investigating a clandestine effort to impersonate White House chief of staff Susie Wiles, after an unknown individual reached out to prominent Republicans and business executives pretending to be her,” the Wall Street Journal reports.

    “In recent weeks, senators, governors, top U.S. business executives and other well-known figures have received text messages and phone calls from a person who claimed to be Wiles.”

    “But the messages weren’t from Wiles—and the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the White House are trying to figure out who is behind the effort and what their goal is.”

    FBI officials have told the White House they don’t believe a foreign nation is involved.

    “The White House takes the cybersecurity of all staff very seriously, and this matter continues to be investigated,” a White House spokeswoman said.

    Wiles reportedly told associates that her personal phone had been hacked, which, though not her government device, nonetheless contained contact information for a slew of notable people. One legislator told the Journal that a text purporting to be from Wiles asked them to compile a list of people for Trump to pardon. While some of the texts seemed legitimate, others betrayed that something was amiss:

    It became clear to some of the lawmakers that the requests were suspicious when the impersonator began asking questions about Trump that Wiles should have known the answers to—and in one case, when the impersonator asked for a cash transfer, some of the people said. In many cases, the impersonator’s grammar was broken and the messages were more formal than the way Wiles typically communicates, people who have received the messages said. The calls and text messages also didn’t come from Wiles’s phone number.

    Melania? The broken grammar and unusual formality… One has to speculate; after all, who besides her speaks in the White House with broken grammar? //

  113. 113.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @sab: they have ray petting at the Denver zoo. The stingrays and other mini sharks swim around a pool. Humans wash hands, at the entry, then come stand at the edge, reach in. We’re carefully given instructions. they swim by, sometimes they touch you, swim along your hand.  It’s magical..

    barbs have been removed, totally safe.

  114. 114.

    sab

    Made fajitas for dinner. Husband did not want them until presented with them. After dinner he said they were good and thanked me. Our usual dinner routine. In the morning it does make me wonder: “why bother to cook?”

  115. 115.

    sab

    @Gloria DryGarden: When I was a kid in Florida there were unfortunate sea cows trapped at tourist attractions. Stuck in tanks for life, just waiting for the friendly tourist with the scrub brush to relieve the monotony of their day. Horrifying in retrospect.

    ETA Our tank thing was in no way comparable to your zoo. Yours was humane. Ours was awful.

  117. 117.

    cope

    @Jackie: I am a member of this club as well.

    Early life: first to the party, last to leave. Current life (some decades later):  sitting in the shade at my sister’s place while my dog plays with hers. Listening to the birds, distant traffic, watching planes fly overhead (two B-52s one afternoon recently), checking out the passing clouds and the occasional deer or two passing through (usually through the neighbor’s yard). This is, for me, an effective balm for my anxious self. Best if no one else is there. The breeze or calm, heat or cold, sunny or cloudy, just what it is. I’m outdoors, not working, just soaking it in.

  120. 120.

    sab

    @Jay: That’s not TACO. That is Muskrats. A whole different group of malefators. I hope we can be in a position to find them and charge them before the statutes of limitations run out.

  121. 121.

    Jackie

    @sab:

    @Jay:

    Both good points! The article doesn’t specify if the phone calls are from male or female, but it’s fun to speculate…

  123. 123.

    Jackie

    @Jackie: Thinking about it, if the caller/texter is pretending to be Susie, it’s “gotta” be Melania! 😉

    In other words… we’ll never be told. Another unsolved mystery.

  125. 125.

    sab

    My granddaighter has reached the young girl wants a horse phase of her life,  This is actually a thing for girls. Mostly around fourth grade.

    We live in town and also expensive. So no.

    I got her a huge unicorn for Christmas. Like Barron Trumps lion. So large she can sit on it. Now she wants a yard full of live unicorns.

    We explained no stable, no fence, and coyotes are a risk. Hope that holds her for a while.

    Coyotes (tall but not very big actually) taking on unicorns ( if they were real)  makes me laugh

    ETA Laughing because not gonna happen ever.

  126. 126.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @sab: maybe some weekend trail riding excursions, and a day long internship mucking out stalls, reward, she gets to curry a horse, maybe…

    had a friend who bought a horse. Had a long conversation about privilege ( I said) and she said no , it’s a responsibility. Well yes, ongoing board, and care. An expense you’d not take on without money and time resources, or space. Why can’t people see it when they have privileges and opportunities others don’t have? She had what she wanted. Not everyone does.

  128. 128.

    Jay

    @sab:

    Unicorns eat 1/2 a bale of hay a day, fed twice a day, need supplements like grains as well, poop out 15lbs a day. Pee like a racehorse. And they need exercise.

    That’s a lot of work for a 4 year old.

  129. 129.

    WTFGhost

    I really, really like all this going on in the backyard. I enjoy creating spaces for other people to enjoy. When I was a drinker I hosted a lot, and I spent most of the time at the sink doing dishes and running errands and what not, and I get the feeling of being around a lot of people and not having the fatigue of actually having to interact with all of them below the surface level. I guess I am just weird.

    Well, this is a kind of weirdness that I share, and, in my case – so, no attempt at net.diagnosis, just, sharing a story – it was because it hurt to be around people, for a variety of reasons.

    I don’t know if it matters, but, for me, if something doesn’t actively hurt, who the eff am I to say I can’t/won’t do it, if it’s what people expect? So it wasn’t enough to say “I’m an introvert, and I guess I find being around people tiring,” I had to say “wow, this is too painful for my good health, so, I have an excuse I’m permitted to use to disengage.”

    So, anyway: there are pains, that are worse around other people, even though those other people might not be doing anything wrong, or even annoying, just… they trigger something.

    Maybe it’s relating warm memories of dad, and I have bad memories of my dad, so I have extra emotional self-maintenance to do, to handle bits of bad-dad-pain. And it’s *good* to hear of good-dad energy, make no mistake! But that doesn’t mean it’s painless.

    Now, me, my life if governed by “spoons theory,” I have so many resources to spend, and I might need to spend a lot, to do simple things, just like I had a set spoon-count, and could only spend so-many spoons before being helpless. So for me, pains are brighter than for ordinary people. They have to be – smaller pains can kill me, after all. (Meh. It happens; people die. Sad, but true.)

    Still: the idea that you could actually be *in pain* around people, or that your pains might be worse around people (even for wonderful reasons), or that people might hurt you, without doing anything wrong, those were all useful observations for me. Sometimes, in an ordinary person, they can be symptoms of being too “peopled out” or too stressed/fatigued, and call for a rest. Or, as in my case, there might be something medical underlying it.

    The key is, it doesn’t have to be an unbearable pain, to be a pain, and pain saps your ambition and willpower.

    Or you might just prefer a lot of your socializing to be lightweight, and enjoy matchmaking, and find it strange, like asking you to be a ride along when you set them up as possible dating partners, when the matchmakers assume a Three Musketeers theme.

  130. 130.

    WTFGhost

    @Gloria DryGarden: People find it funny to accept “privilege” when they’ve worked hard for something. Being able to keep a horse is a huge, huge, commitment, and it’s not a sign of being an idle wealthy person. And yet, it does mean that such a person does have the capability to obtain those resources, even if the person feels “if this is privileged, I’d hate to see ‘disadvantaged!'”

    Another point to consider is, some of the “privilege” that allows one to own a horse is access to space, which might mean a person is living in a rural area, possibly with lower economic opportunity, which might be helpful for horse ownership, but harmful for most everything else.

  131. 131.

    cain

    #naranjataco is doing a lot of bad shit – he needs to go to jail. :)

    Sorry I’m test driving my new hashtag.

  132. 132.

    Jay

    TILT,

    10% of American’s taxes, federal, state and city, go to healthcare.

    10% of Canadians Provincial and Federal taxes go to healthcare.

    Our healthcare is free.

    You have to pay a massive surcharge.

    Weird that.

  135. 135.

    Mel

    @Gloria DryGarden: Come sit by me! (Or more accurately, in the same room with me and a few other introverts while we quietly read or work on our individual crafty projects and occasionally crack a joke.)

    This is it, exactly.

  136. 136.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Mel: I’ll be right over, let me choose a book, and grabs some pens to go w my journal…

    It’s so refreshing to know others who get it…

  137. 137.

    Jay

    @Mel:

    When there were “group” gatherings. I always just sat and listened, observed, unless I was the cook.

    Kelvin, one of T’s ex coworkers, still remembers how at Anne’s place, (home sitting, while unhoused),we were on the patio, talking and drinking, (covid), and he started shivering.

    So I took the sheep pelt off the inside couch and wrapped him up like he was John Snow in Game of Thrones. It was a big deal to him.

  138. 138.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @cain: I love it. Naranjataco. (Orange taco)

    the guy doesn’t speak spanish, we can use such a term and enjoy our joke without pinging the bear.
    perfect.

    it might be more correct to say “taco anaranjado” but there’s no need for correct use of language around such a one…

    naranjataco is like the elegant name of a waltz, or a musical nightmare. Sorry- language music connection slipped in.

  139. 139.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Jay: once again, your observations led to kindness. This is a known thing about you.
    gratitude for this,  is a river that runs through it all, a silvery ribbon in the tapestry, catching the light and reflecting it back at times…

  140. 140.

    Mel

    @Gloria DryGarden:

     

    @Jay: My extrovert best friend was one of the few that got it, too. She used to make what she called “nesting space” for her introvert friends at her parties and gatherings. A few chairs on the side deck, a quiet room in the upstairs with books, snacks and a bottle of wine on ice – places to escape and recharge when being in the crowd had run the battery dry.

  141. 141.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @WTFGhost: well said. I wasnt seeing the commitment, I didn’t know; she wasn’t seeing the privilege. She lived with the advantages of the city, and drove east of Denver onto the plains, where we go to board horses (her) or to buy straw for the garden (me). Or to live more cheaply, amongst republican voters, I guess.

  142. 142.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Mel: that’s beautiful. What a good friend. a nest is good

    One looks for such an oasis, if one isn’t obvious- a tour of the garden plants, a perusal of the book shelves, a chair at the far end of a kitchen…

  143. 143.

    Mel

    @Gloria DryGarden: I second this, and want to say thank you to both of you and to every kind person here.
    I’ve been quiet these past few months, not commenting much because of some challenging things happening (two deaths in the family, three surgeries, and in the midst of moving), but many times coming here and taking comfort in the sanity, kindness, and decency.

  144. 144.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @cain: also, yes he needs to go to____.
    I embroidered him an orange monogrammed jumpsuit, and I really want to give it to him, so he can put it to use.

    it’s hard to feel impatient like this. All the frustrated anticipation, now stuck in this large snark of legal traffic jams.

  145. 145.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Mel: that’s really a lot. I’m glad you’ve come when there’s sanity and kindness. That’s more of what many of us need.
    good luck with all you’re in the midst of. It sounds hard. I’m no stranger to too much hard stuff, health, death, changes.

    today was my sister’s birthday. I’m been silently grieving that we’ll likely never connect or talk to each other again since our parents died a few years back.
    It’s a complex, difficult thing because of history. But today I sent her a teeny tiny email, no longer hoping, expectations and dread gone for the moment. And though usually she has been brief and terse, one brief sentence, she sent me an answer that was a whole sentence longer than my email.
    it’s a little like finding a flower where you didn’t expect one. It’s an ephemeral thing,

    but maybe I can let it flick open my numbness.

    here’s to your recovery, a smooth move of house, and lovely nesting time when you can get it.

    mel, are you on blue sky? There are sometimes poems there, haiku of great beauty, and peace, on the micropoetry page. It varies; Perhaps something of comfort.

  147. 147.

    Jay

    @Chris T.:

    They poop like regular horses.

    They fart all the skittles of the rainbow.

    Yum.

    That’s different

    (Srry for the product placement)

  148. 148.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @Jay: it’s so great to get this insider information.

     

    @sab: is this the granddaughter who just lost her mom to horrible long Covid? If so, she most definitely needs unicorn magic. Well, who doesn’t?

    Maybe Hagrid can send over a unicorn. (those books still have a lot of interesting characters and plot, no matter the distaste many have for the author)

    but jay has a point, there’s work involved..

  149. 149.

    MagdaInBlack

    @sab: I was that girl too, until I spent a couple years working for a woman who raised fancy schmancy Arabians. I still love horses, but from a distance. I have no desire to clean up after them.

    @Gloria DryGarden: I dunno, Terry Pratchett says unicorns are mean and insane because they aren’t from this dimension and being here makes them crazy.

  150. 150.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @MagdaInBlack: that helps. Now I can console myself that I wouldn’t really want one. This dimension does make one crazy…

    I’ll stick to kwan yin, who somehow stayed on this dimension to help us. And somehow it doesn’t make her crazy. I need her merciful compassion even more than rainbows and imaginary magical animals.

    But, I have loved doing cranial work and energy work with horses, when I had the chance.

  151. 151.

    Chris T.

    @Jay: Aw man, next someone’s gonna tell me that bluebirds won’t help fold the laundry off the clothesline!

  158. 158.

    sab

    @Gloria DryGarden: No. She’s the one who just lost her big sister to a traffic accident

    My cousins have horses. The girls ride, the boys muck out the barn. One of them married a rider, so he now lives on the family farm, spends all his spare time growing and mowing hay to feed his wife’s horses over the winter. I don’t know if he has ever actually ridden a horse.

  160. 160.

    Gloria DryGarden

    @sab: oh my gosh. Her big sister and that whole odd family funeral thing? She must be trying so hard not to be off her rocker. So sorry. I wish her well.

    I know if you can, and if it’s the right thing you’ll get her some horse riding time, or whatever might help fill her love languages bucket. Grief takes such awhile, takes so much invisible energy…

    I hope she loves the giant unicorn you got her…

  162. 162.

    SFAW

    Maybe I am not weird, I’m just an asshole.

    As someone who is both, I’d normally welcome you to the club. On the other hand, I think “curmudgeonly” is more accurate than “asshole” for you m’lad.

    And I don’t think you’re weird. Well, if we overlook the naked-mopping thing, that is.

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